Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive755

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Resolved: Content removed; userpage locked; now responding to notes at talk page. No new admin action necessary. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 11:24, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

After posting some speculative amateur psychoanalysis at Talk:Luka Magnotta, a user, User:Franck Holland, now seems to have taken it upon himself to personally hunt down past Wikipedia editors who might potentially have been Magnotta himself. He initially posted a list of every single Wikipedia user who ever edited the early pre-notability incarnations of Magnotta's article directly to the talk page, including several well-known and well-established users, and repeatedly reverted it when it was removed as unproductive — but once I warned him on his user talk page that it was unnecessary and unproductive and that he could be blocked if he continued, he began adding the list to his own userpage instead. Another user then removed it from there, but Franck reverted that again.

I still think it's unproductive and inappropriate — after all, if we ever actually need that information we already have access to the pages' edit histories anyway — but since he's been so persistent about it I just wanted to ask for some assistance in enforcing the necessary escalation. Thanks. Bearcat (talk) 18:37, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

  • comment i would like to point out that at least a few of the editors listed there have edited since Magnotta's arrest today. i also removed the list from his user page, but he restored it, complete with my own user name. -badmachine 18:41, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Topic ban request: Jews in India & Saint Thomas Christians[edit]

Topic ban imposed. - The Bushranger One ping only 15:43, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I would be grateful if an uninvolved admin would look into the contributions of Robin klein, with particular reference to the general sanctions currently in place for Indian caste/community articles as per this discussion.

Robin klein has a particular opinion regarding the Jewish origins etc of the Indian community known under various names, such as Saint Thomas Christians. An example of their waywardness can be seen in this thread, which subsequently ended up at DRN here. The issue was also raised here at ANI, on various user talk pages and (IIRC), at WP:RSN. Robin klein also frequently voices his belief that the consensus surrounding the choice of name is wrong, eg: here.

They have recently created a new article - Kerala Nasrani Christian music - and both the title and the content are yet another example of his tendentiousness regarding his opinion, which is based mostly on original research and misrepresentations of sources. This is despite the numerous attempts to "set him straight" previously. Talk:Kerala Nasrani Christian music says it all, and it is astonishing that this is a DYK nominee. Given that Robin klein has previously been informed of the sanctions available - for example, here - I think that it is about time someone topic banned them from the subject of Jews in India and from articles relating to Saint Thomas Christians (by whatever name they may be referred to). It would need likely to be broadly construed, given RK's predilection for engaging in long talk page WP:IDHT behaviour. - Sitush (talk) 20:26, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

I can testify to Robin's fairly staggering issues with POV-pushing, failure to get the point, and general bias-based incompetence. For months they've been inserting highly problematic material regarding supposed Jewish origins for the Saint Thomas Christians into various articles; when others disagree, Robin obfuscates the discussion with long, accusatory rants and slings baseless accusations of everything from vandalism to conspiracy.[1][2][3][4] The fact that they created this new fork with all the same POV and OR problems after repeated warnings - including at this foot-shooting ANI report - shows this isn't going to get any better.
I propose that Robin klein be topic banned from articles on the Saint Thomas Christians and the Jews in India, broadly construed.--Cúchullain t/c 21:08, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
I apologize for all the inconvenience that happened on the page Saint Thomas Christians. However, I think it is unfair to blame it all just on me. It would not have started in the first place if the Baum citation that User:Cuchullain had stated in the article was not deleted way back on december 14th 2011 [5]. I thank Cuchullain for trying to rectify the problem with Baum citation now that the discussion is going on [6]. I feel like a fool that I did not find out about the tampering of Baum citation all these months. A lot of conflict would not have happened if only it was noticed and addressed much earlier.
As for the music article Kerala Nasrani Christian music I agree there may be passages in the article that may be open to interpretation. However, it is not done on purpose. It is likely that POV might have crept up as a solo editor when I started this page. But it is not done on intent. This does generally happen when a person starts a page dealing with culture or religion or the like, other editors need to come and improve the article in collaborative editing. In my capacity in order to have as much NPOV as possible I tried to get an Indian source and made a separate section dedicated to Syrian christian folk songs which are largely in malayalam. You could have said that I am engaged in POV editing if I wrote only about Nasrani syrian music and chant accentuation both of which is influenced by Jewish music. But I have made a separate section dedicated to Nasrani folk songs that are sung in the native language of kerala (malayalam). If I had written this article without a detailed description of folk songs in malayalam then you could have called it as POV. But I have gathered information from whatever legitimate sources that I could get regarding nasrani folk songs in malayalam language. I added in the page whatever I could, given my access to sources. I have tried to give balanced perspective by referring to Indian source of Choondal from Kerala.
I need to say, I feel this is very unfair to me when the editor who deleted the Baum citation goes unaccounted for. Now that Cuchullain is sorting out the deliberate removal of the citation the issue is being resolved. None of the edit conflicts would have happened if the tampering of citation on 14th dec 2011 [7] that went unnoticed had not happened. Why on earth would I need to be involved in conflict and waste time? In fact even now there is discussion going on regarding the deletion of the citation between Cuchullain and the editor in question [8]. Please do not make me into a whipping boy or scapegoat. I feel I am being discredited and persecuted. Please try to be fair to me. Again I apologize. thanks Robin klein (talk) 23:26, 4 June 2012 (UTC)
Robin k, you have said all this before. Not merely with reference to the music article but other articles also. You seem almost every time to plead some sort of personal failing, assign it to a common failing and then resume your usual stuff despite the previous acknowledgement. It will not wash any more and, in any event, if taken in good faith your admissions pretty much confirm a competence issue. If you cannot edit in a manner that is even close to neutral after all this time then perhaps you should not be editing at all. You are responsible for your own actions. - Sitush (talk) 00:11, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
The above is an excellent demonstration of Cúchullain's observations, and my comments on it can be found in the previous thread (linked above). Robin clearly has a great deal of prose to unburden on anyone attempting discourse on the article, and volume seems to be a trade off for clarity. Robin is not the only person guilty of this, and I am very close to handing out a couple more article bans to other editors, but given the broader community was asked to look at this I'll let the discussion about Robin run its course. In case it's not clear, I explicitly disclose that I'd support Sitush's request. The Blade of the Northern Lights (話して下さい) 05:08, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Not sure we need to have this discussion, he's be warned per WP:GS and the last discussion (less than a couple of weeks ago) was in support of the ban but leaving it to Salvio or Blade to take action when they found it necessary, I don't think we need to go through that again. My 2p towards saving cheap storage space. —SpacemanSpiff 13:25, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Apparent new sock[edit]

Touchy Feely Dan (talk · contribs) is a new account with unusual behaviour, which I won't specify further here to avoid spilling the beans, although it will be obvious to experienced users. User asserts on user talk page that they've never edited here before. I'm thinking our old friend NoCal100 (talk · contribs), recently reincarnated as the now-blocked Top of the Tower (talk · contribs) et. al. Bringing it here to request checkuser assistance rather than SPI for broader community input. --OhioStandard (talk) 01:26, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

"Unusual behavior" — do you mean unusual for a new account or unusual for anyone? If the first, I agree; if the second, I disagree. Could you explain why you think it's NoCal100? Or is that something you won't specify publicly per WP:BEANS? Nyttend (talk) 01:50, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Unusual for a new account. I'd rather not spill the beans; I'll e-mail you shortly, and any other admin who expresses an interest. Please feel free to forward contents to any other admin or checkuser. --OhioStandard (talk) 01:58, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Email received; I'll give an on-wiki response that doesn't reveal anything specific about the details you sent me. Nyttend (talk) 02:57, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Broader community input? Policy specifies WP:SPI for a reason -- the volunteers there specialize in investigating possible socks, and (in some cases) have additional tools to assist, if necessary. Would you rather to a cardiologist or a general practitioner if you have heart problem? Nobody Ent 02:07, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
I really like you, Ent, and generally appreciate your contributions, but I do wish you weren't quite so quick on the draw to reprimand or correct established users. We have a well-established tradition of bringing seeming quackers here for just that reason, to see whether others hear the quacking, too. As you may be aware, SPI doesn't deal especially well with ... well, nevermind. There's a reason I'm not going to say more, here. Have some faith in your fellow editors, please. --OhioStandard (talk) 03:08, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
I wish established users weren't so quick to bite newbies. Wikipedia:Sockpuppets#Handling suspected sock puppets is Wikipedia policy. Nobody Ent 03:38, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
I'm one of the last editors you'll ever see doing so. Take a look at the extraordinary amount of time I spent across multiple pages trying to assist the genuinely new user Notahelix aka "Voice of 5-23". Or the extraordinary time I put into helping the new account, Tylerjet. Correctly it seems, I suspected the latter account was an experienced user, a serial copyright violator, btw, but I didn't confront him about it, because I wasn't sure. I just kept on offering assistance. He eventually left without a word when he realised we wouldn't let him keep on copypasting from sources, as he'd no doubt done previously, and is no doubt continuing to do, under another account.
One does eventually learn not to spend time on the obvious socks, though, when such a high percentage of the accounts active at any given time in a topic area are bogus. But I've never "bitten" a genuine newcomer, someone who later turned out to be legit. Not once. There's a first time for everything, though, and it's certainly possible I'm mistaken in this instance. We'll see. --OhioStandard (talk) 05:17, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Oh, one more affirmation of my intrinsically non-bitey nature. :-) Don't be afraid to click on the "overturn accident" link at the end of the short section, though. --OhioStandard (talk) 07:01, 5 June 2012 (UTC)  If an editor tells a joke in a forest ...
I agree that the account's behavior is unusual for a new account, but I'm not seeing the connection to NoCal. Unfortunately, I don't have e-mail enabled (and I'm not an admin, anyway), so telling me would have to involve "spilling the beans." Can you point me in the general direction - edit history content-trends, edit-history non-content trends, edit summaries, something like that - without pointing at specifics? If not, I'll try to figure it out from Nyttend's forthcoming non-specific on-wiki response. - Jorgath (talk) (contribs) 03:29, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
OhioStandard primarily looks at editing patterns and wording issues as evidence. Nyttend (talk) 04:32, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
I haven't looked at Touchy Feely Dan but information about NoCal socks is available here. I would encourage editors to use any method they want to ask for help about sockpuppets. When people ask for help and advice about potential sockpuppets in good faith they should be helped. SPI may be policy but it's imperfect. Some of the admins who deal with the socks in the I-P conflict topic area presumably know this because they deal with socks without the SPI red tape overhead when it makes sense to do that. IAR is policy too. Editors who have edited in the topic area for years know a sock when they see one and the risk of biting genuine newbies is small, but they often won't know who the sockmaster is so they won't file an SPI report. Sean.hoyland - talk 04:54, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Civility is a pillar. The advantage of filing an SPI is that it does not require notifying the user, so a true newbie will never even know if there was a suspicion; therefore the bite probablity is significantly less than ANI. The contention editors "know a sock," cannot be proven given Wikipedia's privacy rules, so the risk is unknown. ANI requires notification, so a new editor gets dragged into a very hostile environment. As editors are the most significant resource Wikipedia has every effort should be made to attract and retain them. Sockpuppets are a dime a dozen and just not getting worked up about. If SPI has deficiences, the solution is to fix SPI, not to misuse ANI. Nobody Ent 21:05, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Yes, we can indeed "know a sock", and this is hardly misuse of ANI. Spend some time dealing with serial sockers and you'll realise why we get "worked up about" them. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:12, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Socking is particularly egregious in the I-P topic area due to the ARBPIA sanctions. Good faith editors are liable, and regularly get hit with severe sanctions for inadvertent breaches in protocol, meanwhile they have to contend with numerous prolific sockmasters who don't have to concern themselves with the rules and just make a new account within days of the old one getting blocked. Dlv999 (talk) 15:51, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

History of Champagne RM closed by an involved admin[edit]

Amatulic has an closed an RM at Talk:History_of_Champagne [9]. There are several reasons why this action must be reversed and the issue reviewed by an uninvolved administrator:

  • "An editor who has previously closed a move request relating to the same article may not be seen as unbiased” (WP:RMCI). Amatulic closed a similar RM as “premature” several weeks ago.[10]
  • "Any editor who has participated in a move discussion, either in support of the move or in opposition to it, will very likely not be seen as an unbiased judge of that discussion.” (WP:RMCI) Amatulic has referred to the proposed change as a “common lexical error”.[11]
  • An admin is considered WP:INVOLVED if he has, “current or past conflicts with an editor". I have reported this issue to ANI previously.[12] Amatulic has also made various accusations against me.[13]

The direct involvement of editors affiliated with the champagne industry, who may have little experience on Wiki but understandably feel passionately with regard to this subject, creates a heightened potential for conflict for interest. I hope the discussion can be reopened and proceed while being monitored with appropriate rigor. Kauffner (talk) 13:01, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

It certainly seems inappropriate for Amatulic to close that RM. For the first two reasons rather than the third but inappropriate for sure. Perhaps he/she would consider reopening it before someone else does. --regentspark (comment) 13:09, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Anyone who looks at my contributions in this dispute can clearly see that I was not involved in any sense of WP:INVOLVED. Any "participation" on my part was to comment in an administrative capacity only, not to promote a point of view in the dispute. Any "current or past conflicts" were manufactured by Kauffner himself, and the past "accusations" were administrative in nature. Finally, the implication that I have anything to do with the champagne industry is similarly out of line.
As to the RM itself, it clearly went beyond its 7 days, and clearly the arguments showed no consensus. If any other admin would have closed it differently, I'd be interested to know the reasoning. ~Amatulić (talk) 13:19, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
It doesn't matter whether you're involved or not but the appearance of involvement does exist because you closed it once before. If you've closed it once there really is no reason to close it again. Plenty of other admins out there. The simplest, drama reduction course of action is to reopen it and let someone else close it. --regentspark (comment) 13:24, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
No, that wouldn't reduce the drama, because the next closer would be a "drive-by admin". - The Bushranger One ping only 17:14, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Point taken.--regentspark (comment) 17:26, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Of course, Kauffner's upcoming block for beating the head horse well past the point of disruption well be a welcome sight for anyone who drinks either Champagne- or Bordeaux-styled wines - or indeed, anyone who edits such articles. Maybe Mosel is next? Rhine? Anything else? (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 13:36, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Well I have to admit as a wine editor, Kauffner's actions have been a bit disruptive. We already went through a long, contentious discussion at the main Champagne article that failed to gain consensus last month. So soon after he goes after a peripheral article to get the title of History of Champagne (an article about both the wine and Champagne region, mind you) changed? What was his goal? To create internal inconsistency with both the Champagne article and the standard capitalization used on every other wine history article (see History of Chianti, History of Sherry, etc)? With so many reliable sources[14][15][16][17] using the standard capitalization of Champagne, it is clear that there is no "threat" to Wikipedia that makes this battle worth raging on so many fronts for Kauffner. It just seems like a heavy-handed way for him to make a WP:POINT for something that less than a month ago he couldn't garner consensus for. Truly it would be nice to have a break from this or can we expect another go around next month on another peripheral article like Grower Champagne or Champagne in popular culture? AgneCheese/Wine 16:48, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Re "an article about both the wine and Champagne region, mind you": This is not an accurate characterisation of that article. It starts off with "The history of Champagne [linked in article to Champagne (wine), not Champagne (wine region) or any other geographic area] has seen the wine [own emphasis] evolve", indicating up front that the article is primarily about the wine. Whatever local history is in the article is included insofar as it can be made to relate directly to the wine. Granted, that may be partially because the wine is much of the region's history, but the fact remains that that article is primarily about the history of the wine. No comment on the rest of the dispute here. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 21:46, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Well not to threadjack this too far, but as the original author of this article I will point you to things like the 2nd and 5th paragraphs of the lead, the Early History and the World War I and II sections as well as numerous other places in the article where the history of Champagne the wine is closely intertwined with the history of the Champagne people and wine region. I wrote the article that way because that is how the reliable sources describe it. Truly only the small English influences and the even smaller From sweet to brut sections could be thought of as exclusively dealing with the wine but throughout the rest of the text it is clear that the history of the wine and the history of the region are deeply connected. AgneCheese/Wine 22:10, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

It would appear that perhaps a topic ban from Wine and Wine-region related articles (broadly construed) might be a necessity for User:Kauffner as it appears his intent is to disrupt across the gamut. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 21:23, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

No, passion is not disruption. Disruption was caused by an unnecessary, premature second close of a discussion by the same admin. All that was required was to let it run it's course count the votes, determine consensus. If there is a pattern of disruption an WP:RFC/U would be in order. Nobody Ent 21:34, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Playing Russian-Roulette "WP:IDONTLIKEIT" when a decision is made is, indeed, disruptive. We have another editor on this project who's in deep water because he doesn't think diacritics belong in an English encyclopedia - now we have one who doesn't believe that city/region titles need to be capitalized. What a gigantic fuckup of the English language by both. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 12:51, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
I think the disruptive parts of Kauffner's tactics (at least with wine articles) is the heavy-handed, backdoor ways he tries to jam his wishes through. With Champagne, when he first encountered differing opinions to his wish to lower case everything, he went ahead and did the edit anyways. He sort of rewrote WP:BRD into Discuss, find objections, Do it anyways which was terribly bad faith. Then after he encountered further difficulties in getting consensus to change the main Champagne article, he starts WP:FORUMSHOPping and going after these peripheral articles like History of Champagne--first in the middle of the original of the Champagne discussion and then a month after. One can only guess that he hopes that if he gets the right mix of WP:RM regulars at a moment when other editors who are concerned about his changes are busy with off-wiki life that he gets one of these backdoor consensus through--perhaps to intentionally create inconsistency among a mass of articles so that they may eventually have to succumb to his will. That, again, seems to be contrary to the Wikipedia spirit of building consensus and good faith editing. It's like an editor wanting to get the iPod article changed to Ipod and after failing to get consensus on that main article starts going after the iPad, iTunes and iPod mini, etc articles until eventually he gets his way. AgneCheese/Wine 16:36, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Perhaps it is worth noting the that Amatulic originally got involved in this issue at Agne's request.[18] I was surprised to discover that asking your favorite admin to close does not actually violate WP:ADMINSHOP. Kauffner (talk) 14:54, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

If I was actually asking my favorite admin to close, then yes it would. But as you can see by actually reading the diff I was asking for advice on how to deal with this in the most civil and responsible way--even if that meant walking away. See my last line "What are your thoughts on how best I should proceed? I greatly respect your opinion and if you think I should back down or go another path, I certainly will." I take pride in conducting myself WP:CIVILly and responsibly and after years of editing on Wikipedia, I know that when things get heated it is best to step aside and get an outside reality check. That is not adminshopping in the slightest. AgneCheese/Wine 16:21, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Kauffner, that was a crass and rude comment to make ("asking your favorite admin"). Admin shopping means asking multiple admins until you get one that does what you want, not applicable here. Having worked with a specific admin before is not against policy. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 16:24, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Where did this come from? Anyway, you have a nice day, too. Kauffner (talk) 08:03, 7 June 2012 (UTC)


Musukundan (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Myself, and other editors, have repeatedly asked User:Musukundan to stop copyright violations, copy-paste moves and creating non-appropriate articles, but he simply refuses to communicate, repeating similar behaviour. Some recent examples [19] from TASMAC, [20] from Tamil Nadu Rice Research Institute and more. There is also an issue of edit warring, e.g. [21] reverting a redirect by copy pasting another article. Maybe some administrator help will start them communicating? --Muhandes (talk) 16:01, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Given that this behavior is cross-wiki and his month-long block on Commons for the same reason last week as well as an earlier block for copyvios here doesn't seem to have got the message across, and that he doesn't communicate at all, I have blocked him indefinitely. He can of course be unblocked once he figures out his errors and agrees not to repeat them. —SpacemanSpiff 16:37, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick response, I hope they do get the message. --Muhandes (talk) 18:55, 5 June 2012 (UTC)


Socks washed. - The Bushranger One ping only 17:09, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
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User:Thirdashan is he, please block. Darkness Shines (talk) 16:19, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Just trying to remove pov DS why you so defensive? Thirdashan (talk) 16:20, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Quack. Already blocked by Spiff. --regentspark (comment) 16:24, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks guys, now I need work out who the swede ip is. Darkness Shines (talk) 16:27, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
  • Yet another Sock of Nangparbat (talk · contribs · WHOIS) has replied on my talk page,(he might be on a proxy/webhost) can this one also be blocked please--ÐℬigXЯaɣ 18:21, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Seems to be blocked now thanks--ÐℬigXЯaɣ 19:07, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

WP:LEGAL -[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

 Done blocked by BWilkins. Nobody Ent 21:05, 5 June 2012 (UTC) (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log), legal threat here --Tgeairn (talk) 17:51, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Archivesharer redux for more antics from this person. Яehevkor 17:52, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Recommend block for legal threats and disruption.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► 17:57, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

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Raheem Kassam[edit]

Done. - The Bushranger One ping only 02:09, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

There appears to be a mild invasion of anons and single-purpose accounts in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Raheem Kassam. Please someone who knows the ropes, put a proper notice on the page and tag the accounts as invalid for AfD. Staszek Lem (talk) 18:59, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

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Admin needed to close complex RfC at talk:Mexico[edit]

We need an uninvolved admin to close a complex rFc at talk Mexico in which editors have argued about how to present the legal status of the Spanish language within Mexico in the infobox and in the article.·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 20:03, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

AIV Backlog[edit]

Backlog cleared. Dipankan (Have a chat?) 11:03, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
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Got a bit of a backlog at WP:AIV. If an admin or two could take a look, it would be appreciated. - NeutralhomerTalk • 08:19, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

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Old Church Slavonic[edit]

WP:DRN is thataway. And please mind WP:ARBMAC... - The Bushranger One ping only 16:31, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
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Can the talk page Talk:Old Church Slavonic please be reviewed. There are many fallacies. Editors who are prejudiced against ethnic Macedonian have objected to the use of the linguistic term "Macedonian recension". Their misconception is that the term refers to the modern state and/or its people. As a result, and in order to align the article with their views, the editors invented the term "Western Bulgarian" and so forth. The world's foremost English-language experts (Schmalstieg, Nandris, Lunt) in the topic consistently use the term "Macedonian recension" (alongside "Bulgarian recension"). All previous attempts to spell out the misunderstanding to the editors and amend the article as per academic usage has resulted in edit and flame wars. Unfortunately, the only people who care to take an interest in the integrity of the article are those people with an agenda. -- (talk) 15:10, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

  • This isn't an issue for ANI. You need to bring up the concerns on the talk page of the article. Then, if there is a dispute in the content, the proper venue is WP:DRN. ANI is for "incidents" that require immediate attention of an administrator only. Before going to any board, we should try to discuss with our fellow editors first. Dennis Brown - © 15:51, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
You'll notice many, many words' worth of "discussion" on the talk page. It does require the urgent attention of an administrator because nobody has cared to do anything for years. -- (talk) 15:54, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
There has only been one comment this year. The discussion for your changes needs to start now, on that talk page, then if you can't find consensus, go to WP:DRN. I'm not going to start blocking people for disagreeing back in 2011, nor is any other admin likely to. WP:ANI is not for discussing content issues, WP:DRN is. Dennis Brown - © 15:58, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

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Premature to bring to ANI. Use user talk page before coming here. Dennis Brown - © 15:48, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
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And misuse of twinkle, unless I am missing something here I do not see any vandalisim. Darkness Shines (talk) 15:36, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

The inserted text: POK-pakistan occupied kashmir appears to be a POV insertion. IRWolfie- (talk) 15:39, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Darkness Shines, may I question how this was worthy of wasting space here on ANI? Surely, there's a talk page for a reason. Mar4d (talk) 15:42, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I think escalating a concern about biting newcomers to ANI is a bit extreme, see Wikipedia:UNCIVIL#Dealing_with_incivility. IRWolfie- (talk) 15:45, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

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Hoaxing at the article for the "Cigarette holder".[edit]

Has been moved to proper venue, here. Dennis Brown - © 18:06, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Cigarette holder (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

There appears to be a wilful hoax at the article for the "Cigarette holder", concerning the words "and are still widely popular accessories in many aspects of Japanese fashion". No citation was ever given, and if I were to engage the services of the "Google" Internet search engine, with the words "Japanese cigarette holder", only some sixty-one (61) results would had been returned [22]. The hoax appears to had been started by the same person who has now reverted my "dubious" tag, at the possibly-restored version back in the year 2006 [23]. The question is, if such a thing had such a supposed importance in Japan, then why is there no, as of now and as of yet, Japanese-language version of this article? The user concerned has been issued with the appropriate notice (uw-hoax), having now been read. — KC9TV 16:11, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

  • I notice that two people, Kintetsubuffalo and NawlinWiki have reverted your tag. I didn't notice any discussion of it on the talk page. WP:BRD would say you should approach the subject there, and perhaps drop a note on both of the editors talk page pointing to the discussion. Like so many today, this is a content dispute, which belongs on the article talk page, then if you can't reach consensus, belongs at WP:DRN. That there is no Japanese article on the subject doesn't mean anything, as Wikipedia is a work in progress, both the English and Japanese language versions. Dennis Brown - © 16:40, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
  • You are not him, and you are not even an administrator, as far as I know. — KC9TV 16:54, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
  • P.S.: Do you also blog, David, at some other forum by any chance? Your name does sound familiar. The Daily Telegraph? — KC9TV 17:26, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
I would be curious to know whose sockpuppet KC9TV is, as it is unlikely a 5 week user got to be a troll so rapidly. Checkuser, anyone?--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 17:00, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
To quote Bushranger...WP:SPI is that a-way ---> Not really an appropriate topic for ANI. Nothing else to do here. Dennis Brown - © 17:16, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
For interest Jewelrymaking Through History: An Encyclopedia (published 2007) - Page 53 - "Today cigarette holders are still widely popular on the Japanese fashion scene." If it was a hoax it was apparently quite successful. Sean.hoyland - talk 17:17, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Published in the year 2007, whereas the words "Today cigarette holders are still widely popular on the Japanese fashion scene", or words to that effect, were already in Wikipedia by the year 2006. — KC9TV 17:35, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Yes, I know. I can read. You might want to re-read what I wrote. Sean.hoyland - talk 17:43, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
That statement was in fact also without citation in that book. You don't actually have a source that is no earlier than the year 1970, but earlier than the year 2005 or 2006, have you? Who doesn't nick stuff off from Wikipedia verbatim, as a primary source, in this day and age? — KC9TV 17:50, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
I've taken up the content point/dispute here. Please comment there. - Jarry1250 [Deliberation needed] 18:01, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Thanks Sean and Dennis!--Kintetsubuffalo (talk) 17:26, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
  • And I thank you too! No ill-feelings, eh? Nothing personal, it is just business! Now, see, and good luck with your SPI/CheckUser! Now, can we close this? I thank you. — KC9TV 18:03, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Aopollo (talk · contribs): This is a single-purpose account. With the exception of one useful edit in Chervonohrad, all other edits seems to be removal of Russian spelling from the articles on Ukrainian cities. This spelling is a sensitive issue, debated for years, see, for instance, Talk:Kharkiv. The user got already a number of warning including the last one (admittedly, from the same user), but their only reaction was to continue removing the spelling. I do not see any way to regularize the situation, this is why I bring it here. Note that I am not the side of the conflict, and I do not care whether Russian spelling should be in the articles; I just happen to know that such edits are likely to cause large-scale edit warring. The user will be now notified.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:04, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Here is an example of this editor's editing, where his removal of the Russian alternative has been reverted by three different editors, but he persists. --Taivo (talk) 19:14, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
This is blockable if it continues, but I'm interested if anyone knows if this might be a sock from a known drawer. Drmies (talk) 20:14, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
This pattern of removing Russian names from Ukrainian city articles is usually done by anonymous IPs. It's been awhile since a named user has done this. There was an anon IP at work just a short time before Aopollo started and changed a number of articles that Aopollo didn't change: [24]. They overlapped at Luhansk and Odessa. This was the anon IP's last edit. This was Aopollo's first edit. There's only a three-minute gap between the two, so it's obvious that the anon IP changed into Aopollo. But before this, it's been a while since another named editor was removing Russian names en masse. At Rivne, for example, the last time a named editor removed the Russian name was User:Ahonc in August of 2011, at Kharkiv it was User:Rkononenko in March of 2012, but neither of these users acted to remove Russian names en masse, and Ahonc certainly did not engage in any kind of edit war. As I said, it's almost always anon IPs. --Taivo (talk) 20:57, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
At the time, I put a sock template on User talk: because it seemed obvious that he/she was probably the same person as Aopollo. Special:Contributions/Aopollo shows that his/her first contribution under that ID was on 5 June. Though this [25] shows that the account was created on 14 May.--Toddy1 (talk) 06:57, 7 June 2012 (UTC)


This user account has been editing pages on International Bank of Commerce and its CEO. After I removed chunks of material copied from the firm's website, the user identified in a Talk page message as "the public relations agency for IBC Bank" (User_talk:AllyD#ibckgb). I added a COI-Username notice on 4th June (User_talk:Ibckgb). Today (after an IP had restored the Copyvio text which I've re-deleted), the PR Agency editor is again editing the article: not directly problematic edits, but they are clearly editing as a Shared Account. AllyD (talk) 18:48, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

diff the public relations agency, Ally politely addresses user two days ago, no response. Recommend indef until user(s) start talking... Nobody Ent 21:16, 6 June 2012 (UTC) (talk · contribs · WHOIS) is also a concern, likely the same person(s). I'm chasing diffs now. Dennis Brown - © 21:28, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Likely copyvios for this IP, which is a static IP, by the way, located in same geographic area as the bank they are writing about. Dennis Brown - © 21:32, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
Indef is a strong response, but since both the user account and the IP are either the same person or group, I would understand if someone blocked the IP for a year and indef'ed the reg'ed user, if neither will address the issues here. Leaving ANI tag for IP now. Dennis Brown - © 21:34, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
  • For the record, I know nothing about this situation, the user(s), the company or the page in question. Not sure why they decided to use my identity. J04n(talk page) 01:17, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
  • We have enough reason to block right now, copyvio and impersonation. I'm inclined to wait just a bit (but not too long), to see if we need to block the IP as well, since a CU won't link the name with the IP address and I think they are the same. Dennis Brown - © 01:29, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

 Done I kept digging and just decided to indef block Ibckgb for "Improper username, Copyright Infringe, Impersonating an admin in your sig." as well as a 1 year block on the static IP for meatpuppetry and infringement. Dennis Brown - © 02:06, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Vandal attempting to compromise my account[edit]

I recently got an email stating that User: has requested a reminder of my account details. This IP was actually recently blocked after I reported him to AIV (with the block set to expire in about a day). Is it possible that he will be able to hack into my account? Canuck89 (talk to me) 21:54, June 6, 2012 (UTC)

To prevent such an occurrence, create and utilize a Wikipedia:Committed identity. This will allow to regain control of your acct if it is hacked. To prevent such a hijacking, also see Wikipedia:Personal security practices and Wikipedia:User account security. Also, be sure to use a strong password. These practices should sufficiently protect your acct. Rgrds. -- (talk) 23:48, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
To answer the original question, the "reminder of your account details" is automatically sent if you click "Forgot your login details?" from the login screen. It won't permit the user to hack into your Wikipedia account -- most likely, they're just trying to harass you. --Carnildo (talk) 23:51, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

User:Spiral Staircase[edit]

Fresh User:Spiral Staircase is wracking heavock in the IPA chart range. Can someone blok them? (and send an invitation to talk). ANI notification done. -DePiep (talk) 00:09, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

I can't see anything wrong at all — just a little editing of headers and moving some pages from awkward titles to grammatically correct titles. What's the issue? Nyttend (talk) 00:56, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
1) the old names are sourced names (nice yuo like private names - but no), 2) no talking, 3) disturbing links. -DePiep (talk) 01:12, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Hi DePiep, sorry to cause any offence, I see you are heavily invested in those pages. The rename is because the grammar is wrong. Chart is singular, so you have a vowel chart, not a vowels chart. It's the same as a "train station" rather than a "trains station" a "cars park" etc. "IPA vowels - chart with audio" would also be correct grammar but not without a '-' or ':'. You could also describe it as a "Chart of vowels". As a native speaker I don't consider this to be controversial, and therefore didn't see any merit in discussing it. (WP:BOLD)
I changed the links to link to pages that match the actual link titles (which exist) as a separate edit. If you don't like it revert it, or change the redirects to pages that better match the titles.
Please don't request my account to be blocked less than 10 minutes after you put something on my talk page, it doesn't come across as WP:CIVIL, especially as the edits were 10 hours ago.
Keep up the good work! Spiral Staircase (talk) 01:55, 7 June 2012 (UTC)


Мэн-1 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)
I came across this user via Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Мэн-1's European Championships articles. User:Мэн-1 removed the MfD notices (while the discussion is in progress) and added back in the commented out categories from the user subpages. User talk:Мэн-1 is soft redirected to the Russian Wikipedia, where there appears to be some sort of block notice. -- Uzma Gamal (talk) 04:31, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

I've restored the MfD notices, commented out the categories again and explained the issue to the user. Hopefully, that'll put an end to that. In terms of the Russian account, it was blocked for creating hoaxes, which is concerning, but I don't know if the behavior has continued here. Any sign of that? --Moonriddengirl (talk) 11:52, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
The user has not contributed to any mainspace pages on the English Wikipedia since February 2010. What reason does he have for having an account here at all? – PeeJay 11:56, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Maybe he or she is planning to very slowly improve the userspace drafts into better articles? We'll only know if he or she starts talking. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:10, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
Unlikely. From what I saw them post on User:Tbhotch's talk page, they've been using an IP for which they pay for a few hours use at a time. – PeeJay 16:48, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

Just to update, the user has come back and, finding the pages deleted following the MfD, restored them. I've G4ed them and given him a block warning. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 11:24, 7 June 2012 (UTC)


User insists on inserting personal comments and replacing sourced information with propaganda despite warnings, as seen from here. Although his/her edits are concentrated on the article of Cyprus intercommunal violence, there are some edits on other articles: [27] (this is a very good example of the general tone of his/her writing). Seems to be a single-purpose account aimed to heroize EOKA fighters and demonize Turkish Cypriots anyway. --Seksen (talk) 14:30, 5 June 2012 (UTC)

I've notified the editor of this discussion. Please remember that this is required when filing a report on ANI. :)
I generally find a useful first step in these kinds of situations is to explain as clearly as possible to an editor the way things work. Sometimes, they simply don't understand our policies and practices and pointing them out can change the direction. Obviously, we want to keep any editor who is willing to work within policy to improve articles. :) I've left him a basic note explaining what kind of content we look for and how to work out disagreements. If he starts to engage, please be patient with him. If he continues without engagement, after our practices have been explained, then the situation is different. I would recommend waiting to see where he goes from here. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 12:09, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
I have no hope because the content he keeps adding is really nasty (e.g. changes "a Turkish Cypriot couple" to "two Turkish Cypriot prostitutes" - could even qualify under WP:LIBEL, but assuming good faith is preferable of course), but let's see. --Seksen (talk) 17:27, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
I'm trying to keep an eye on him (including watching the article). If I should happen to overlook a return to the problem, please feel free to drop me a note directly. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 11:25, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Boomerang2 (returning sock of BoomerangWiki)[edit]

Kim Dent-Brown lowered the boom on them. Dennis Brown - © 14:22, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Boomerang2 (talk · contribs) is a SPA for editing Boomerang (TV channel)-related articles, which has repeatedly asserted ownership over the articles and engages in other disruptive editing, particularly:

The account claims to be operated by Turner Broadcasting, which owns Boomerang (e.g., [35] [36]). It is also an obvious sock of BoomerangWiki (talk · contribs), which had already been warned and blocked for having an improper username [37] [38].

The user has ignored or removed all warnings from their talk page, including a recent request to change their username and to remove the forged signatures from their user and user talk pages. [39]Psychonaut (talk) 07:55, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Should be indefinitely banned immediately. Leaving "ownership" warnings on user and IP talk pages after reverting changes saying "contact Turner Broadcasting if you have any questions" strikes at the heart of Wikipedia's core pillars. QU TalkQu 09:38, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
I have indeffed them. Kim Dent-Brown (Talk) 12:23, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Also  Confirmed is Sumi the Mascot (talk · contribs). I have a strong sense that these are all socks of banned user Simulation12 (talk · contribs), as that user has had a history of harassment and impersonating official companies and entities in order to stake ownership to articles, as well as impersonating other editors. --MuZemike 17:00, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

I've tagged both Boomerang2 and Sumi the Mascot as clear socks of Simulation12. Here is why:

  1. Boomerang2's userpage version is a complete ripoff of NeilN's userpage. Compare to Checker Fred's, MikeySalinas17's, and Saylaveer's ripoffs of my userpage.
  2. Blatant impersonation of network officials, fictional characters, or other people. Compare the following:
  3. All of Sumi the Mascot's edits and interests are a dead ringer with those from Simulation12 and his army of socks, including edits to PBS Kids Go! and Fetch! with Ruff Ruffman back in 2010. Yes, this one would be a textbook sleeper sock.

My guess is that this user will probably continue, and he will engage in both on- and off-wiki harassment of anyone who gets in his line of fire. If any other similar socks are seen, please let me know. --MuZemike 17:25, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

Wow...You guys realize that Sim12 actually is (or is a spectacularly good impersonator of) a tween-age kid? Can't believe she (think it's a she) has actually hung around this long...normally childish editor/vandals like this one lose interest long before now! But based on the evidence above I will agree--this looks like another series of Sim12 socks. (Ol' Simmy was one of my first LTA encounters when I was a new admin, before I became an old, defunct, inactive admin. Good times.)GJC 15:22, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
I've tagged BoomerangWiki (talk · contribs) as a WP:DUCK. - The Bushranger One ping only 18:21, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
What about ECLYPIA™ (talk · contribs)? Why would Boomerang2 blank their page?[40] The impersonation name and the topic interests are curious. Doc talk 21:52, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
ECLYPIA™ looks to be another sockpuppet. It's also edited nothing but Boomerang-related articles, and racked up a bunch of warnings for vandalism and disruption. Boomerang2's blanking of ECLYPIA™'s talk page may not have been vandalism but rather an effort to hide that account's warnings. —Psychonaut (talk) 15:42, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Looks to be a sock, Goggling ECLYPIA returns a user under this name that posted to, lo and behold, the Boomerang2 official forum. Blackmane (talk) 15:48, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
If you check the history for Boomerang (TV channel) and List of programs broadcast by Boomerang, you'll actually find a lot of single-purpose accounts (such as (talk · contribs · WHOIS)) which edit nothing but Boomerang-related articles. Like Boomerang2, some of them seem to regularly add dubious and/or unsourced information to articles, and their edits are frequently reverted. I'm not sure if they're all socks of Boomerang2—I don't have much experience editing articles on children's TV so maybe they just tend to attract these sorts of editors. Could be they're child fans who aren't competent enough to understand Wikipedia's purpose and policies. —Psychonaut (talk) 16:02, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Keysanger's "Capture" of the War of the Pacific Article[edit]

User:Keysanger has been involved in a long-standing edit war with editors in the War of the Pacific article. As you can see, the article has been tagged with alleged "multiple issues" for nearly a year now. The only editor arguing those issues is Keysanger, while everyone else (including myself, User:Cloudaoc, Alexh, User:Dentren, and User:Chiton magnificus, among several others) has opposed his rationale. Recently, editor Chiton made a proposal to remove those tags ([41]), which Cloudaoc and myself expressed our support towards ([42]). Nonetheless, Keysanger replied in a long rant, accusing the article's editors of "systematically pushing Peruvian POV" and associating them with "street gangs". Given this situation, I request that administrators please end Keysanger's "capture" of the War of the Pacific article by finally getting rid of those tags and/or block this constantly disruptive editor. Best of wishes.--MarshalN20 | Talk 15:16, 6 June 2012 (UTC)

  • Unless there is actually vandalism or blockable disruption that I didn't see, then you likely need to try WP:DRN first, since this sounds like a content dispute. That said, the editor does seem a bit confused as to how BRD and other editing guidelines work, but this can be taken care of DRN. Hopefully. Dennis Brown - © 15:55, 6 June 2012 (UTC)
We have tried that in the past, but no solution has come from it. The last dispute resolution mediator was User:Alexh19740110, and the current problems with Keysanger stem from the solutions found by the mediator. Keysanger did not agree with them, whereas everyone else agreed with the mediator. Now, for nearly a year, Keysanger persists in holding the article hostage (is there a better term for it?) with tags. After almost a year of this WP:GAMING issue, I do honestly believe that an administrator needs to step in and do something. Best of wishes.--MarshalN20 | Talk 01:14, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
DRN is still the best place to get an admin to do so, or point to a previous DRN that this is violating. Otherwise, it is difficult to determine by an outside admin, which is why they are likely hesitant to get involved. Dennis Brown - © 19:35, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Another AIV Backlog[edit]

Got another backlog over at WP:AIV. If an admin or two could take a look, it would be appreciated.

On a related note, is it possible to have a bot "announce" an AIV backlog on the admin IRC chatroom, similar to when someone requests for help (by placing the {{help}} template on their talk page). If so, this would greatly reduce the wait time for an admin to check in at AIV and eliminate all "there's a backlog on AIV" posts here on ANI. It could also be carried over to other time-sensitive noticeboards here on en.Wiki. - NeutralhomerTalk • 02:22, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't remember for sure (I've never used IRC), but I think I've heard about some sort of alert that pops up on IRC when there's a new backlog. Nyttend (talk) 02:24, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
There very well could be one, since I am not an admin, I wouldn't know about it if it were on the admins-only IRC channel. :) - NeutralhomerTalk • 02:44, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
I don't think there is one, unfortunately. T. Canens (talk) 05:05, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Well, perhaps that is something that could be created to aid admins in time-sensitive noticeboards like AIV and stop these "another backlog at <insert noticeboard>" notices here on ANI. - NeutralhomerTalk • 12:39, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
That would require a fundamental change in philosophy. You and I would be glad to help out - if we had the authority. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 12:52, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Legal Nurse Consultant[edit]

A dispute has been ongoing between myself and editor TomZiemba (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log). I feel that the statement he added, " It has been claimed that Vickie Milazzo pioneered the field" in the article Legal nurse consultant (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) is an advertisement, is unfair, and is biased. Additionally, since the user is associated with Vickie Milazzo's organization, I feel that is also a conflict of interest. I have made several attempts to resolve the dispute with TomZiemba Other user's and I have tried discussing on his Talk page, I have requested comment from other editors and I have filed a report on the conflict of interest noticeboard. All attempts to contact this editor by myself and other editors for dispute resolution have been ignored by editor TomZiemba. The only time this editor responds is if the statement is removed. In which case, he simply undoes the change without any attempt to resolve the dispute. Please let me know what can be done to resolve this issue. Several other editors and I agree that his statement should not be there as you can see on the article Talk page. Thanks for your help! Rsanch (talk) 02:57, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

This is a content dispute, nothing for admins to do here. Please continue the discussion on the article talk page. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:56, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Actually, it looks like TomZiemba has been at this for a while and has not responded to multiple invitations to talk, so admin assistance could be needed to encourage that editor to discuss. It's also worth noting that the NY Times article TomZiemba is citing in support of the statement he's been adding does not actually back it up (he's putting in a stronger statement than the one in the Times), and that the article reports that Milazzo's husband is "Thomas M. Ziemba", so there is a legitimate cause for COI concern. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:57, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
It has come to my attention that it's possible that the other editor involved in this dispute, Rsanch, also has a conflict of interest, and may be an employee of another LNC firm. Due to WP:OUTING concerns, I am not going to attempt to confirm this information, but because of its plausibility, I am going to warn both editors not to continue to revert each other, not to attempt to skew the article in favor of any one company, and to follow the suggestions in WP:COI about editing the article. (I take these actions as a non-admin, of course.) Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:06, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

User:Curritocurrito - potential suicide[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Seems to be song lyrics which have been removed. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 21:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

The above user, who is currently the subject of a sockpuppet investigation at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Sonia Murillo Perales, has just posted the following message on their userpage:

"Mezu bat dugu zabaltzeko harro daudenak apaltzeko Zentzuak odolustutzeko aiztoa prest. Guk bihotzak josiko ditugu berriz ardi txuria sentitzen garelako artalde beltzean ardi beltza sentitzen garen moduan, artalde txurian honetarako jaio nintzen ta honengatik hilko naiz."

The user comes from Zaragoza in Spain. I tried using Google translate to translate this message from Basque to English, and it was translated as:

"We are proud to spread a message of decreasing bleeding knife to the senses. Our hearts are full of the white sheep, black sheep black sheep because we feel as we feel, I die for my flock I was born for this blank."

This sounds potentially as if it could be a suicide message. The user has never previously left any text on their userpage. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 06:38, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

I notice that the user has made a few edits since posting the above message on their userpage, so it might not be as urgent as I first feared. However this user has a history of unusual and often disruptive editing behaviour, as outlined at the sockpuppet investigation page and also at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Plants#Tropical Families and tropical genera. PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:00, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Follow the guidelines at WP:SUICIDE, and email And when you do that, request that they oversight this entire section too, as for the sake of privacy, no one unnecessary should have seen this. Did you read the header of this page, or the giant edit notice that appears above the page before you posted? elektrikSHOOS (talk) 07:05, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Disregard all of the above. I ran a Google search of the phrase. They're song lyrics. It's hardly a suicide threat. elektrikSHOOS (talk) 07:09, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Do you regard this thread as closed, and should I still advise the user of its existence? PaleCloudedWhite (talk) 07:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Well, I'd say the song lyrics are still a copyright violation and should be removed. I'll notify the user myself. elektrikSHOOS (talk) 07:36, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
The lyrics have been removed, and I've revdel'd them per RD1 as copyvio. - The Bushranger One ping only 15:58, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Need some help[edit]

Hello I am new to wikipedia and need help an admin called user:Denniss Is threating to block me because he/she is constantly removing everything I write for fun I think. I dont know what to do can someone help me. The admin is threating to block me possibly permanently Claimsort11 (talk) 07:51, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Denniss is an admin, but not on Wikipedia. He has no power to block you. Now then, the basic concern with your edits is that you removed half a sentence that was cited to a source without providing a reason, and you added a new paragraph that contained no source. When someone on Wikipedia reverts your changes, you are expected to discuss the matter with that user, instead of simply edit warring. Failing to heed this advice will get you blocked, even if you think the other person is acting like a butt (in this case, the final warning was certainly over-the-top). Someguy1221 (talk) 08:06, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
He needs a "warning" too for scaring off the newbies.Lihaas (talk) 11:28, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
So what should I do? Claimsort11 (talk) 12:51, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Use edit summaries to explain your edits, provide sources. Dougweller (talk) 14:03, 7 June 2012 (UTC)


Blocked for 24h by User:Sarek Of Vulcan
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Thewolfchild (talk · contribs)

Hello. User:Thewolfchild has created a list of people (editors) who complained of his behavior and interactions with others on his talk page. The header was: Wikipedia University - Institute of the Clowning Arts & Sciences. Class of 2012. Congratulations Clown College Graduates! The page was nominated for speedy deletion as an {{db-attack}}. I've deleted the page and left an explanatory note on Thewolfchild's talk page. Thewolfchild's response on my talk page seems to me somewhat upset, but I may be mistaken. I admit that deletion of the above mentioned sandbox and my subsequent comments were influenced by reading of Thewolfchild's talk page. I refuse to continue communicating with an obvious troll (I think that User:Thewolfchild is an exemplary case of WP:TROLL) and I'm asking here for an independent assessment. Thanks for any opinion. --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 08:42, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Huh, seems you're not kidding. OK, here we go... I was playing around with something, in jest and temporarily, in my sandbox only, and not posted anywhere else. You found it sooo offensive that you had to immediately delete it, only to re-post here on the widely read ANI boards? You made no effort to "communicate", you simply left a comment telling me off and then went on to delete the entire page, including non-related content. Why not just remove the section you had an issue with? Or the user names? Why not contact me tell your concerns and ask me to correct it? I tried asking you about your concerns and you refused to answer. Instead, you claim I'm "upset". (why? DID I USE ALOT OF CAPS? Did I use alot of exclamation and question marks?!?!???!!!) If anything, I believe you're the one getting to emotional here. Lastly, I may be many things, but I am not a troll. You have gone overboard, and I expect more of an admin... - thewolfchild 09:50, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
You should pop on over to User_talk:Vejvančický to see my response to your first rant over there, then maybe rethink not only the above, but indeed all of your interactions on Wikipedia (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 09:56, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
I popped. I saw. I re-thunk. And I answered. But I have to wonder, just why is it that when someone asks a question of a admin that the admin doesn't care to answer, it suddenly makes the asker "angry"? - thewolfchild 10:21, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
@thewolfchild: I found the page in the CAT:CSD, it was nominated for deletion by another editor. You've called the editors who disagree with you "wiki academy clown class graduates". Why don't you address their concerns in a normal way instead of creating cowardly lists hidden in your user space? Usually I tend to avoid people of your kind and I'm not a frequent visitor here on ANI, as I don't think it's worthy of my time. But today I posted here immediatelly because I consider your behavior as grossly dishonest and offensive. I want to see this admin action of mine reviewed and scrutinized by others, independently. --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 10:39, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
You could have simply pointed out your concern and I would have removed it. As you said... it was "hidden" in my userspace (for all of what... 2 days?), how offensive can that be? But regardless, it's gone and I'm not disputing the removal. But I do feel the ANI was needless. With the initial issue resolved, now you and your friends are digging thru old news for... what? To pick a fight? Flex some sysop muscle? Seems you admins are dying to delete and block instead of trying to discuss and resolve (you know... like in a collegial environment). AND - just how am I "grossly dishonest"? - thewolfchild 12:36, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
thewolfchild, I have no admin friends and my status here is totally unimportant, at least to me. I do not need to step on others to feel better, I edit here A) because I want to help to keep this project strong B) for fun. I edit articles and the last thing I want to do is to moralize wikimartyrs. However, I can't accept mean and cowardly attacks, no matter how long they are in wiki space. That's just me. You talk about a collegial environment yet you treat others like crap, calling them crybabies and hipocrites, creating stupid and disparaging lists instead of providing constructive answers. That's the dishonesty on your part. I don't think all your edits are unconstructive and bad, it's just your style of communication with others. Please no more bullshit about my hypothetical friends and sysop muscle. That's a trolling aspect in your comments, and I expect (with regret) more of it. Please, avoid that. --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 14:01, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Vej, According to you I "step on others to feel better", I'm a "wikimartyr", I'm "mean and cowardly", "stupid and disparaging" and "dishonest". Any other "constructive" comments? While you're busy "treating me like crap", keep in mind that the "collegial" comment wasn't mine, I just responded to it. You say I created "lists" (pleural). I created one - in my sandbox. It's gone now. Get over it. Then you go on about me calling someone a "crybaby" and a "hypocrit". First you are the one now taking things out of context. Comments like "crybaby" were made during an antagonistic debate over reverts. Insults were thrown at me as well. The issue has since been put to rest. As for calling someone a "hypocrit"... yes, I've done that before and I will do it again. When someone takes a moral stand, then acts in a manner that contradicts their position, they are a hypocrit. Take you for example... you are a hypocrite. And while we are talking about definitions, I may be a smart-ass, but I am not a troll. You keep throwing that word around, but you ain't backing it up. You paranoid thin-skinnedness does not make me dishonest. I called it in the beginning - you over-reacted and now you're just trying to pile it on to justify all this. Talk about "bullshit". Your repeated protestations are starting to wear. Your initial concern has been addressed, is there anything else you are hoping to accomplish here? - thewolfchild 14:59, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Answered above. --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 10:41, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Vej; Show me how I'm "an obvious troll". - thewolfchild 12:47, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
  • You were right to delete it - merely show the policy and back away. I don't think bringing it to ANI (even for a review) is going to dispel any anger :-) (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 09:09, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
  • I've also deleted a section on his talk page where he edited another user's talkpage comments to change their meaning and then altered their signature to read "Hypocrite" and "Cry Baby". Whilst he might want to parade the fact on his talk page that he is capable of being sarcastic and patronising (neither particularly useful traits for a collegial environment) he certainly doesn't get to do that. Black Kite (talk) 09:30, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Then I was wrong :-) Bringing all of his behaviour here was was the right thing to do! Not the good way to grab the attention of the project in the long or short run (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:01, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
This ANI is for my sandbox. If you have some constructive comments to make regarding this issue, then please do. However, if you have a separate concern, regarding a separate issue on a different page, then perhaps you would care to address it with me on my talk page to see if your concerns can be resolved. Failing that, perhaps bring an ANI for that issue. I think that much like your very good and close friends, "Vejvančický" and "Bwilkins", you have gotten quite carried away here. - thewolfchild 10:14, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
In case you had not noticed when you read the top of the page, all behaviours will be taken into account for incidents posted here. You really should attempt to address your behaviours in front of the admin community - you're not making yourself out well right now (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:20, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
What's to address? There was a joke in my sandbox that Vej didn't like - its's gone. There were some comments from an old agrument that has since been addressed by another admin and reviewed at an ANI. They're gone now too. You guys are just digging now, fueled by your own self-importance. And I have to "make myself out well"? Problems solved. Move on. I'm sure there's plenty of other wrongs your could be righting now... - thewolfchild 13:00, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
I just want to clarify that User:Black Kite and User:Bwilkins are not my very good and close friends. My work here is independent. --Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 10:49, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Methinks... - thewolfchild 13:06, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Besides that, the topic is "User:Thewolfchild", not "User:Thewolfchild's sandbox". Nothing indicates this would be just about the sandbox and nothing else.--Atlan (talk) 10:24, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
And my commet didn't state that "this this would be just about the sandbox and nothing else." For the sake of simplicity, the comments should focus on the topic at hand, instead of going all over the road with multiple complaints from different pages. Don't you agree? - thewolfchild 13:06, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
...and he has restored the attack on that editor on his talkpage. Final warning issued. Black Kite (talk) 10:34, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Interesting read when you expand those sections. Copy/pastes (losing all attribution); modification of comments to suit his needs; cherrypicking; endless sarcasm. Really doesn't get the "community" aspect of Wikipedia (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 10:38, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Specifics? - thewolfchild 13:25, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
The more I dig into his interactions, edits, talkpage and all contributions, the more I'm becoming convinced that we as a project are, indeed, being trolled. When he signed up, he agreed to the 5 pillars - not just a selected one or two. His behaviour right in front the community when asked to explain and amend shows it's not going to change - he's just as sarcastic, arrogant, and wrong. I'm becoming sadly convinced that WP:RBI is the best way forward unless they (or anyone) can magically show some better way forward (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 11:03, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
Yes, this is sad. Show me, exactly, how I am a troll. Then, reconsider your comments about "...asked to explain and amend shows it's not going to change - he's just as sarcastic, arrogant, and wrong...". An issue was brought forward. I provided an explanation and amended it. Then a second issue was brought forward and was also explained and amended as well. So I'm sarcastic sometimes - so what? If you tried to kick every sarcsatic user out of wikipedia, (including some of the other contributors and admins on this very ANI) then this site would become a very lonely place. "Arrogant"? That is merely your opinion. I call it "confident". Either way, show me a wiki policy against it. "Wrong" about what? As I've said, I addressed the concernes that were brought up in this ANI so, what am I "wrong" about now? AND... WP:RBI?, (I guess if you were a state governor, you'd put shoplifters in the gas chamber, huh?)... you show me exactly how I'm a vandal. As for "moving forward", I have made overtures for resolution - with no response. What have you done? I look forward to your responses. - thewolfchild 13:25, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

It may have very well been wrong but it cant be unilaterally deleted by an admin who then refuses to discuss. It should benom'd for deletion here ot elsewhere. As WP is a community drive even the something like this needs cdiscussion (however easy it may seem) instead of arbitrary decisions refusing ot discuss. The comment on the users talk page to fined a nother playground was not the most civil thing either. This doesnt show any DR having been tried.
But lets not dig into everything from the issue on hand. It dealt with this page alone not his overall behaviour, which should be discussed on another board if need beLihaas (talk) 11:26, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
As BWilkins said above, all behaviour can, and will be, taken into account when an ANI is raised. Per WP:UP#POLEMIC and WP:UP#DELETE, attack pages are usually deleted without the need for MFD or AFD. Had their behvaiour been the only thing being discussed then