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October 14[edit]

Runestone at Viking Line terminal in Stockholm[edit]

Runestone at Viking Line Stockholm terminal.jpg

This runestone can be found at the Viking Line terminal in Stockholm. Is it a genuine historical runestone or a reconstruction? JIP | Talk 11:05, 14 October 2019 (UTC)

It's modern - all explained here. Mikenorton (talk) 11:32, 14 October 2019 (UTC)
I suspected as much. A real one wouldn't look so good, if left outside for a thousand years. Specifically, the paint would be absent or at least chipped and/or faded. SinisterLefty (talk) 21:45, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

October 15[edit]

Indian Images[edit]

I have spent months and months searching through Google Maps images much akin to the following link. My question is why are there so many pictures of what appears to be people and/or places from the Indian Subcontinent put into pictures which should relate to places elsewhere in the world. Below I am providing just one example but I have come across a plethora of these, to the point where I am almost able to say that there are few without Indian pictures in them. I can’t simply be an "Oops! I click the wrong button” because then there would be this with all nationalities, Americans posting in Africa and Africans posting in Asian etc, but the phenomenon appears to only be Indian people posting in other places. Is this a deliberate action taken on government level?,+AK,+USA/@65.6091667,-168.0874999,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipOFegmvCYJEGPYAo5yMgdN53bHusMkwszZuSszB!2e10!3e12!!7i2448!8i3264!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x596984812d524ae9:0x39c94ce7e19c065b!2sMagadan,+Magadan+Oblast,+Russia!3b1!8m2!3d59.5611525!4d150.8301413!3m4!1s0x5735e8f19fca48c3:0x737d164c7ae7c6f5!8m2!3d65.6089822!4d-168.0880737 Thank you Anton (talk) 13:25, 15 October 2019 (UTC) Further examples as I am sure someone will be saying that I am mistaken...,+AK,+USA/@66.2549161,-166.070014,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipPSjFYHRuhY4sl5iy0oUKboRyA-EtSlId70EVr5!2e10!3e12!!7i1280!8i960!4m5!3m4!1s0x57337888734f02b5:0x665336ea22e8bc2e!8m2!3d66.2566289!4d-166.0720825,+Xinjiang,+China/@41.168779,80.260605,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipPnNtz8TzApNbtYwyxLVhBGGLHoFDcCk6NO_lVt!2e10!3e12!!7i1920!8i2560!4m5!3m4!1s0x3863c81351ba79e5:0xbd42a56f2f96e4d5!8m2!3d41.1683169!4d80.2606201'Djamena,+Chad/@12.1348457,15.0557415,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipMq-5CyLKUfWdkgiOwF0ZheE02jGcS0ON22JX4w!2e10!3e12!!7i2560!8i1440!4m5!3m4!1s0x111963cd18fcf74f:0xb8a3e92c76d2aa3b!8m2!3d12.1360052!4d15.0567627,+Samoa/@-13.8506958,-171.7513551,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipMglAggQqGbWnRJkaAVuhcGqOqaxxnfXdiBiDwU!2e10!3e12!!7i3120!8i4160!4m5!3m4!1s0x71a513a364ec1003:0x893cc8c8c70af762!8m2!3d-13.8594139!4d-171.7602539,+AK,+USA/@70.2268224,-148.4012277,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipOjeE4doGbxci8cAgreG-ltmoMJyvWBEK2a8yU9!2e10!3e12!!7i480!8i640!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x596984812d524ae9:0x39c94ce7e19c065b!2sMagadan,+Magadan+Oblast,+Russia!3b1!8m2!3d59.5611525!4d150.8301413!3m4!1s0x5120759875720bb9:0x9b76efe3a7385345!8m2!3d70.226028!4d-148.4033203,+Samoa/@-13.8506958,-171.7513551,3a,75y/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipNJ_XDzfW1G50dlWM8uxaqlEV1t7JtRSoaqlM-Q!2e10!3e12!!7i1944!8i2592!4m5!3m4!1s0x71a513a364ec1003:0x893cc8c8c70af762!8m2!3d-13.8594139!4d-171.7602539 — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:10, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

I don't understand why there are selfies and posed photos of people in Google Maps at all, regardless of the people in them. Have they recently added this feature ? As for the subjects being from India, it's a populous country, and many work abroad, so I would expect many selfies in locations outside India. The Samoa pics could actually be Samoans, though, as they do both share dark skin and black hair (and sharing your skin isn't easy !). I agree that they look like they are from India, but they are close enough that I could be mistaken. SinisterLefty (talk) 16:51, 15 October 2019 (UTC),+AK,+USA/@70.2268224,-148.4012277,3a,75y,90t/data=!3m8!1e2!3m6!1sAF1QipOjeE4doGbxci8cAgreG-ltmoMJyvWBEK2a8yU9!2e10!3e12!!7i480!8i640!4m13!1m7!3m6!1s0x596984812d524ae9:0x39c94ce7e19c065b!2sMagadan,+Magadan+Oblast,+Russia!3b1!8m2!3d59.5611525!4d150.8301413!3m4!1s0x5120759875720bb9:0x9b76efe3a7385345!8m2!3d70.226028!4d-148.4033203 — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:17, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

I live in New Zealand and neither of the two examples look Samoan to me. And their names definitely do not sound Samoan. I'm not sure it's possible to say for sure from the limited details shown whether the photos were taken although for one of them, it looks like there is some Brahmic script on a sign in the background which would seem a bit weird for Samoa. The other one has structure which also look a bit weird for Samoa and while I guess someone could have paid to have these made for something, I'm not sure how likely that would be. Nil Einne (talk) 20:17, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

October 16[edit]

working on sourcing[edit]

I am trying to improve the sourcing on the workers day article, as time permits every now and then. So my question is less for a reference but opinion on policy i guess. One statement, that may day is celebrated by the Communist Party of Bhutan is impossible to source. Now, of course i could just remove the claim and the country entirely but i was wondering if that ventures into sky is blue territory. I would like to source it properly, just to have the country in the list somehow i guess, but otherwise care little and have removed some things as well before. I mean there is no way to reliably source what some communist rebels in bhutan do on may day but... is it sky is blue... or communists are red in this case? ;) Cheers for opinions on the matter and it will be fine either way. 2003:D6:2729:FF9A:81E3:D836:355E:F212 (talk) 03:21, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

Oh, and one more thing i just thought of while glancing at the list of countries overall. I have looked for a reliable source (not one of those holiday generator list things please) that actually states that Palestine celebrates may day as well. Now i have not looked for it this time around yet as i have only just now thought of the issue, but i could not find anything other than a blog or whatever if memory serves right. And even for something as uncontroversial as that, a blog won't do in my opinion. So any help in that regard would be great. And it is celebrated (at least according to the unreferenced article, the blog i remember and so on), i just cannot verify it with anything reliable. So any help with that would be even more apreciated. Anyway, cheers for any comments. 2003:D6:2729:FF9A:81E3:D836:355E:F212 (talk) 03:38, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
One suggestion is to look for governmental office calendars. They should list official holidays when the office is closed, but may also list unofficial holidays. SinisterLefty (talk) 04:08, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
Oh yes, i have no issue finding regular things most of the time pretty easy(like the holiday schedule of US embassies for example), Palestine just... has no such place to look up i guess lol. I mean i don't speak the language either, so anything official, which would do surely, i could not find. Or just some passing mention in some reliable middle eastern newspaper or whatever. Hence my issue really. Some nations i thought would be challenging were no problem. But Palestine, no luck, skill and ability to find anything to verify it haha. 2003:D6:2729:FF9A:81E3:D836:355E:F212 (talk) 04:22, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
Public holidays in the State of Palestine doesn't have any sources, but does have a list. --Jayron32 13:14, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, and that sadly is the issue. I know that it commemorated in some way. But no where can i find anything to verify it. And that is all that is needed really. I mean some passing mention in some reliable Syrian, Lebanese or Egyptian paper saying "oh hey look, Palestine has labour day too", for example, would be enough presumably. Or a primary document from a trade federation, government or what have you. Verifiablity not truth, as we all know :P 2003:D6:2729:FF9A:FDA5:157F:5A04:910D (talk) 13:43, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
This isn't the best source [1], but it seems to confirm Labour Day on 1st May is a holiday in Palestinian Authority areas as of sometimes ~2000-2004. This suggests it was probably still that in 2014 [2]. Not sure about Hamas controlled areas but [3] makes me think it probably is. [4] also suggests that Labour Day (of undefined date) is a public holiday in Gaza circa between 2010-2016 or so. I agree that finding someone who can understand Arabic will likely let you find better sources. BTW, it's not that hard to find sources discussing various celebrations or recognition in some part of Palestine in both English e.g. [5] [6] [7] [8] [9] and Arabic [10], and at least some of these may be RS, but that doesn't of course tell you if it's a public holiday or how widely it's celebrated. Nil Einne (talk) 18:24, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
Frankly I'm not convinced the day being celebrated by one banned minor political party in Bhutan is significant enough to add to the article, unless there's something particularly significant or contentious about that e.g. people are arrested for doing so. To put it a different way, if the Communist Party's celebration is so insignificant that it's impossible to source, then removing it is probably reasonable even if it's true. That said, it's also possible this is the sort of thing which may be could be sourced if you could understand Dzongkha or Nepali or something and had access to media and other sources from Bhutan. If celebrating May Day is a problem in Bhutan this probably should be mentioned separately from whether or not the Communist Party celebrates it. It does not seem to be an official holiday in Bhutan [11] [12], but that does not mean celebrating it is a problem. Nil Einne (talk) 17:57, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
To be honest, that is pretty much what i thought, but i was just curious and thought asking would not hurt. And quite frankly, i know hardly anything of Bhutan other than the name itself and where the place actually is... Now oddly enough i do know someone who speaks Nepali... but i don't see the point in contacting them out of the blue asking them to look for something Wikipedia related for me haha. Especially something as low priority as this. I think i will just remove it. But much apreciated for the comment on this and the other matter. Should do, but if anyone finds anything extra, do feel free of course. Thanks for the effort anyway. 2003:D6:2729:FF97:4578:6363:8AD9:F5A0 (talk) 19:31, 16 October 2019 (UTC)

October 17[edit]

Animal dreaming awareness[edit]

Do animals sometimes know they are dreaming, in the same way that humans sometimes do? (talk) 05:01, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Most animals aren't even self-aware. For example, they don't seem to recognize themselves in a mirror. So, they might just think of a dream as some type of illusion, like the mirror, and not think about it past that. For the few animals that do recognize themselves in a mirror, who knows ? SinisterLefty (talk) 05:16, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
I think it is faulty to assume that failing the mirror test implies lack of self-awareness. Realistically it indicates lack of understanding of mirrors. To the original question, I think it is unknowable whether animals ever recognize that they are in a dream state, as there would not appear to be any way for the animal to communicate this to you, except possibly with a talking parrot or signing ape (though apparently Koko (gorilla) never mentioned having a dream, though it's not apparent she even knew what one was [13]). Now, we might also ask if animals think what they dreamt was real, after they wake up. Also probably impossible to know, however, there is one idea that maybe could poke at this. It is well established that animals can remember things, and many have some degree of understanding of object permanence. Simple things like remember where things are. If animals believed that dreams were real, I think you might expect a lot of really confused animals. Indeed, studies of canine concepts of object permanence show dogs visibly displaying what is often interpreted as confusion or disbelief when a researcher surreptitiously alters their environment without their knowledge. You know, that or they just can't remember the dream. Someguy1221 (talk) 06:10, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
There's a strong tradition in animal psychology of behaviorism (and also for humans), which holds that so-called "internal thoughts" are not themselves observable by a neutral observer, so a proper scientific approach to psychology should ignore such things and focus on what can be observed. That is, in order for an independent observer to know what you are thinking (or are dreaming, etc.) they require you to report those thoughts. They can only observe what you say, they cannot directly observe those thoughts themselves. This is somewhat problematic for people, since this introduces problems of reproduceability and of bias and of accuracy, but it is majorly problematic for animals who cannot meaningfully communicate such things for studying. --Jayron32 12:34, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
I know the internal thoughts of all my pets. It is "Food? Is that food? Can I have food? Where's my food? Food? More food?" (talk) 13:29, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
Animals seem to be in constant search of food; instinctive behavior, even for well-fed pets. Everything our cat does seems to connect to food in some way. Petting the cat or playing with it, the next step is usually a run to the food dish. It might have been Jackson Galaxy who said that when cats play, they are "imagining" pursuit and capture of prey. And similarly, stroking a cat stimulates the cat, including the salivary glands. So what next after playing or petting? Eating, of course. With no actual mouse or bird there, they go for the consolation prize - the food dish. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 20:05, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
One observation which may be relevant is that pets that are clearly having active dreams (paws moving and making sounds as they sleep) don't seem at all affected when they awaken. That is, they aren't in an elevated state, as one would expect after chasing or being chased. This implies that they don't remember. SinisterLefty (talk) 14:43, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
This being a reference desk, here are some references:
What do Animals Dream About, a BBC article by Dr. Jason G. Goldman, a freelance science writer based in Los Angeles.
Animals have complex dreams, MIT researcher proves from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.
The Evolution of REM Dreaming: New Research Includes All Mammals by Richard Wilkerson of the Smithsonian Institution, DC.
Alansplodge (talk) 17:39, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Final question: maybe I have improved ... :-)[edit]

Hi, ok, that's my last request in this area, also because then I ran aground and I'm sorry. Returning to the 2000 US elections, citing the infamous Palm Beach county as an example, I was told that the absentee ballots were counted by hand. And here is my definitive question: since they were not from punched, is it established, is it possible that they were ballots that had bubbles to be filled like today's optical scan ballots? Thanks a lot. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:39, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

Will we be mentioned in your book? Anton (talk) 16:19, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
A surprising number of questions get answered after they are archived -- sometimes years later. If for no other reason, I recommend that you create a Wikipedia account so that you can be notified if one of yours is answered. Either post back here or to my talk page using that account and I can help you get a note on those archived questions.
Have you tried contacting the Palm Beach County Supervisor of Elections office? -- ToE 03:08, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

I contacted them, and I am also confident about the answer. It is not the first time I contact them. Thank you very much. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 07:30, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Flat pints of Magners & other drinks[edit]

How long does it take for a pint of Magners (known as Bulmers in Ireland) to go flat? How does this compare to pints of Budweiser, Foster etc? ( (talk) 18:48, 17 October 2019 (UTC))

That's an interesting question. Some quick Googling didn't give me any immediate answers, but it does seem clear that people are generally more concerned about beer/cider going bad than flat. Discussion about flatness (and, mostly, about how to avoid it) is centred around soda pop. The answer for pop, BTW, seems to be about 3-4 days, but I've got to think that's subject to lots of variables, including temperature and vessel size/shape. If you want to do the experiment yourself (science is fun!), the answer may be quite different depending on how you decide to define "flat" - is it only when all the CO2 is out? 50%? 10%? Do the items you're comparing start with the same amount? Matt Deres (talk) 03:02, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
The solubility of a gas in a liquid is determined by Henry's law, to figure out how that evolves over time is going to be very complex. I doubt someone worked that particular bit out for a single brand of beer, and compared it to others. --Jayron32 12:28, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
Just to note that Magners is actually a brand of cider, but I'm not sure that it makes much difference. Real cider is flat anyway. Alansplodge (talk) 19:57, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
This forum discussing home-brew beer says 48 hours if you decant it into another sealed container (a lot quicker in a glass I would think). Alansplodge (talk) 19:57, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

October 18[edit]

another request[edit]

So, still working on the workers day article and i am having trouble sourcing something again. But a specific statement this time. In regards to Brazil the article as of now reads "... It is also when salaries for most professional categories and the minimum wage are traditionally readjusted.", on labour day that is. Now, that is a somewhat unique thing, but i am having trouble with finding a source. NMaybe it is a past tradition, who knows what and how Brazil is doing things now anyway under... i rather not say what i think here lol. Besides the point anyway. But i am having issues finding anything about the matter. I am probably just not using the right search terms as i just get many results about the general labour laws or general data on the minimum wage in the country, yet nothing about the specified 'tradition' on 1 May. Not being able to speak Portuguese does not help it either of course. Because of its somewhat unique nature i would like to leave that statement in, or at least go into how it was a thing and then changed over time or whatever. So, to recap my question: Can someone help me find a source that talks about how the minimum wage, among others, gets traditionally adjusted on 1 May in Brazil? Cheers for any help on the matter. 2003:D6:2729:FF8D:19DA:2C8:FA93:649C (talk) 00:07, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

"According to a Federal Decree in 2011, the minimum wage will follow these guidelines: A base minimum wage of BLR 545 for 2011, A yearly adjustment that is to be made to the minimum wage every January 1st."[14]. DroneB (talk) 14:02, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
Interesting. Wonder if it is a hoax in the article or if there is at least some basis in reality for the claim. Will remove it tomorrow, on a mobile device now and editing on that is horrible. Cheers 2003:D6:2729:FF14:6537:58EC:E91D:6242 (talk) 19:08, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
In the future, please pick a title that lets us know what the question is about. SinisterLefty (talk) 19:13, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Scranton, Pen[edit]

Does anyone know the address where Peter Steele died in Scranton Pennsylvania? Perhaps PlanetStar can help? Also what were the circumstances surrounding this? Was he alone, was he rushed to hospital? Was this weightlifting , steroid or drug related? My main query would be an address where he was living when he passed. Thanks Anton (talk) 15:47, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Parts of a bowl[edit]

Besides the basic bowl of glass or clay or whatever, some bowls are held inside a decorative metal wire frame. Sometimes it is suggestive of what the bowl is going to hold, such as grape leaves decorating a fruit bowl. Is there a name for this metal piece? Our article doesn't seem to go into that (it's not in great shape). I thought this or this might be useful, but they're kind of restricted to discussing the parts of a simple bowl (rim, well, handle, etc). I'm struggling to find a photo, but picture this sitting inside that, but where the metal part really couldn't function on its own. Any help? Matt Deres (talk) 17:18, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Note that it may have originally been functional. That is, if a the bowl was round on the bottom, it would need the metal stand to keep from wobbling, and having it offset from a cold table would also keep the contents warm longer. So why would the ancients have created a bowl that was round on the bottom in the first place ? Could be they were limited by the material, such as coconut shell, turtle shell, etc., or perhaps manufacturing method (a clay bowl of nonuniform thickness might have been more likely to crack when fired). Then, over time, the stand could have become merely decorative. SinisterLefty (talk) 17:46, 18 October 2019 (UTC)
I don't know how to respond to that. In what way was that supposed to be helpful? Matt Deres (talk) 14:18, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
  • First, I gave you an actual name: "stand". Googling under this term finds many pics of such items: [15]. I thought you could do that much, since I already provided the word. There may also be other names for it. So, the idea here was that you would look at those items and decide if that is what you are looking for.
  • Second, since you seemed to only be aware of the decorative versions, I pointed out that there are also functional versions, so you will need to differentiate between the two, either when searching for such items, or if you, or another reader, choose to update our bowl article with this info. SinisterLefty (talk) 16:28, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
Note that the pic you provided didn't appear to show feet, or even a flat spot, on the bottom, although there could be very small feet or a flat not visible. If it is your intention to exclude all bowl stands with feet, you need to say so explicitly. There were/are also hanging frames for bowls to hang from the top [16] or side [17], but I don't think you are asking about those. (The 2nd is a pet bowl, but with some searching you might find a similar bowl for human use, perhaps for attachment to a pegboard for storage of loose items.)
If you meant to exclude all stands, and frames with attachment points for hanging, then the only other way I can imagine it could be used is held in the lap or hands, with the latter perhaps for ceremonial purposes (for passing out items), or sitting in a basin. Knowing the intended use will help with Google searches. For example, searching under hand-held bowls yields this result, designed to keep ice cream cold or hot foods warm, while holding it in your lap or hands: [18]. SinisterLefty (talk) 16:50, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

October 19[edit]

Football/Soccer - goal differances[edit]

In football/soccer, is there a differance between goals? (talk) 19:21, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

I'm having a little trouble understanding your question. Are you asking about differences between the scoring systems of American football and association football (soccer), or are you asking about different kinds of goals in soccer? For the first interpretation, see the linked articles. For the second, as far as I'm aware there's only one sort of goal in soccer, though there are different ways that it can happen. --Trovatore (talk) 20:12, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
They might also be asking about the goalposts or the distances between them. SinisterLefty (talk) 20:58, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
In Association football (soccer) played in over 200 countries the goal is the only method of scoring and is a frame 24 feet (7.32 m) wide by 8 feet (2.44 m) tall. In Gridiron football played in USA and Canada the goal is a secondary method of scoring by kicking over the crossbar and may consist of a crossbar suspended 10 feet (3.0 m) off the ground and uprights placed 18 feet 6 inches (5.64 m) apart extending at least 35 feet (11 m) above the crossbar, with variations for high school, arena and indoor games. DroneB (talk) 22:48, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
Although the query as worded is difficult to interpret, it may be that the OP was thinking of formal variants of Association football, such as FIFA-endorsed Futsal and other versions of Five-a-side football, and the six-a-side Indoor soccer particularly popular in North America. In these the goals are variously smaller than in the full 11-a-side game, with specified dimensions in at least Futsal, and doubtless specifications within given leagues of the other kinds if not internationally agreed ones. {The poster formerly known as} (talk) 09:43, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

I'm asking about the differance between the two goals in association football (soccer). (talk) 19:45, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Please do not delete previous posts as you did here. There is no difference between the goals in a soccer game except that they are at opposite ends of the playing field and are used to score by the two competing teams. DroneB (talk) 23:17, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
Do you mean the distance between the two ? SinisterLefty (talk) 03:52, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

Hay Mills Rotor Station - world's first heliport?[edit]

I have a non-reliable source, saying that Hay Mills Rotor Station, opened 1 June 1951, was "the World's first purpose built heliport". Can anyone confirm, with a reliable source, or refute, please? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 20:15, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

Igor Sikorski's first helicopter design was in 1909, so it would seem unlikely that a heliport wasn't built for 42 years. Specifically, I would suspect some were built during WW2, although possibly no more than a cleared spot with a radio shack nearby. SinisterLefty (talk) 20:44, 19 October 2019 (UTC)
The Online Etymology Dictionary dates the word heliport from 1944. DroneB (talk) 22:29, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

───────────────────────── Thanks, both. Perhaps it was the world's first commercial, or civilian, heliport; or the first in the UK? Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:57, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Hmmm... There was a bit of a problem translating a patent into a usable flying machine (besides the inconvenience of the Russian Revolution and Igor having to start from scratch in another country). His first design to actually go into production was the Sikorsky R-4 in which only had two seats and entered service in the winter of 1943/44 with US and British forces. There was a war on so I expect there weren't many passenger flights. The first helicopter to be delivered for commercial use was a Sikorsky S-51 on 29 July 1946, which was operated by Helicopter Air Transport from Camden Airport in New Jersey. [19] So getting around to building a specialised commercial heliport (the term is not used by any military as far as I can tell) would take some time and 1951 sounds plausible to me. Alansplodge (talk) 18:51, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
The first experimental commercial helicopter service in the UK "...began in June 1950, with a daily service between Liverpool and Cardiff, plus a request stop at Wrexham to collect any passengers that wished to join. The route ran in a fairly straight-line from Speke Airport, over Chester, across mid Wales and past Abergavenny into Pengam Moors Aerodrome on the eastern side of Cardiff". [20] So still tied to conventional airfields at that stage. Alansplodge (talk) 19:02, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
And some conflicting claims: Opening Of The Brussels Heliport (01 Jul 1953) and curiously from the same news organisation, World's First Heliport Opens For 'Copters". Fort Eustis, Virginia, USA (07 Dec 1954). Contradicting my earlier assertion, Fort Eustis is a military base. Alansplodge (talk) 19:27, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

October 20[edit]

First named reptile[edit]

What was the first recorded reptile that got given its own name? Not a species name, but a personal name. 2001:8003:A015:4100:A4BD:D102:BDBE:405F (talk) 07:58, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps Mehen (c.2100 BC).--Shantavira|feed me 09:31, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
Mythical beasts apart, both the Ancient Greeks and the Romans kept pet snakes. [21] Ajax the Great, Tiberius and Elagabalus were noted pet-snake keepers. [22] Presumably they gave their pets names, but they appear not to have come down to us.
Archbishop William Laud had a pet tortoise acquired in 1628 which (unlike the executed cleric) survived until 1753 when it was either drowned in a flood or dug out of hibernation by a gardener for a bet. [23] We don't know the tortoise's name either.
Tu'i Malila, originally given as a hatchling to Captain James Cook, lived from 1777 until 1965.
Adwaita, allegedly the pet tortoise of Clive of India, lived from about 1750 until 2006.
Alansplodge (talk) 18:29, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

finding out if this story really is true[edit]

Hi there, I have read this here sadly once in my youth and I would like you guys to help me if this "false story" can be true or not. I have searched very well the red light websites and offers online in the islands there, there is not really much, if the story is true, this woman shouldnt be hard to find. In my youth I was more interested to imagine how I would use the service of all these women there, because I wasn't allowed to, since I was raised up in this child abuser cult. If I wouldnt know it better, I would guess that this island which is talked about, might be the dominikan republic or Haiti. Do you have a guess for any other island - if so - what make you think so? my hardest guess why this is just a disturbing fake story: how does this woman would live today than - and why would she let these woman free if they have debts, they have to work else way with her and this story would be more famous in the world and show up one result of the other in the internet - but it doesn't. please help me to declarete this as a fake story or a true story. There should be enough information to locate her old brothel -- (talk) 13:10, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

No, there isn't enough to check the story, since the only name was changed, and they don't specify the place or date. But this all sounds quite plausible. See child trafficking and child prostitution. SinisterLefty (talk) 14:22, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
Wikipedia has articles about Jehovah's Witnesses and the OP asks about a story in a JW publication. The story is a deliberately vague homily about a "Cecilia" - not her real name - allegedly a repentant owner of brothels in "one of the Carribean islands" which could be any of about 29 territories in 13 states in which there are 14 large metropolitan areas likely to have organized prostitution, not least here. There is not enough information about location or date to check the story. DroneB (talk) 14:36, 20 October 2019 (UTC)

so you sound like I would also have to check in any language, also in dutch if the brothel wasn't eventually on Saaba or St. Marteen? Not enough, well I remember I have read she has some children and I am sure any of these prostitutes would tell her life story or any newspaper would have brought this sensation story that a brothel has closed after 15 years and in any sex-forum there must be a "Freier" which can or could tell, he searched for a place he had a nice time during the 15 years while being opened and now its gone, I have read once in such forum, I think it was called "Huren-Test" that somebody said he was in hurghada (Egypt) and all good brothels are now closed since there is a new president. So the same way I would expect any "customer" to write down his experience and exactly that story must be able to found - if not - this watchtower magazine just has given out again a fake story. They have had yet a fake story about a Passanger who survived the crash of TWA-800 but ... his name isn't on any list. Not on the survived persons, also not the dead bodies. The Name just doesnt come up. They also had a fake story about a crash of an airplane in mexico city, but - surprise - there was no crash on this date.
If they lie on airplane stories, they would also lie on prostitution stories. -- (talk) 23:30, 20 October 2019 (UTC), if you have a question about prostitution, the website of some religion, or whatever, then ask it, concisely. However, if you'd like to complain about any of these, please do so on some other website. A Wikipedia "Reference Desk" isn't a discussion forum. -- Hoary (talk) 00:57, 21 October 2019 (UTC)

October 21[edit]