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Invert the chronological order of a Songwriting and Production Credits list[edit]

Hello everyone,

I'm trying to invert the chronological order of a Songwriting and Production Credits list, so the most recent tracks can be show at the beginning of the list.

Could you give me a hand with that?

Thanks xx — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inca28a (talkcontribs) 12:09, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

@Inca28a: First, please use four tildes (~ ~ ~ ~, but no spaces) after your comment- it signs it. Second, depending on the table type, there's little arrows up by the top of the table. If you click the set of arrows in the box where it says "year" it should flip. -A lainsane (Channel 2) 13:07, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Inca28a (talk) 13:18, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

Hi A lad insane‬, and thank you for your response. As you can see, I'm new in here and not sure how to respond on the same lead.

How do I modified the table then? Because at the moment, it has those tiles to flip the years over, but what I would like, is that straight away, when you're in the Wiki page without having to flip, you can see the latest tracks to the first one.

Thanks Inca28a (talk) 13:18, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

@Inca28a: Depending on the table this might be as simple as replacing a class="wikitable" by class="wikitable sortable", folks could then sort the table by its date column or similar. Otherwise oldest first is usual, your idea would be unusual. – (talk) 20:44, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
@Inca28a: On Wikipedia historical events are presented in chronological order. Putting the "latest news" at the top is how promotional publications do it, here we record history, we do not present news. You are welcome to make the table sortable, but the default order is the normal chronology, not reversed. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 14:25, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, Roger. Now I have a bigger problem. People is removing the whole content from the page. They're actually deleting facts: a list of songwriting credits and discography with verified sources. I don't know want to do. So much work and time invested to have the info up to date and available to the world and now, has been removed. Inca28a (talk) 19:10, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

"Edit War" Help[edit]

I was editing Chinese Red Army, and I removed irrelevant clutter and redundant information. (It was two tables listing Organization and the Many Armies of CRA. [| See Here]

The 'copy editing' tag was removed (not by me) after I removed the tables and redid the paragraphs, and I was happy with my work.

Unfortunately, an IP address reverted my changes back to the previous edits with the redundant information. I was agitated by this, and undid his revisions. A few days later, a user "Kdl-sunday" reverted my changes again. I undid his reversions and looked up what I could do. I found the term "Edit Warring," and thought I might've been in the wrong.

However, when looking in the history, it appears that Kdl-Sunday was the one who created the Organization table and Many Armies table. He went back and redid my revisions, which I think means that he started the Edit War. What can I do, and am I in the wrong?

(I'd like it to be kept in mind that I did start open a discussion regarding my deleting of the tables, and it was never discussed on the talk page, nor was it discussed in the 'Edit Summary.)

Thanks! Chinese Red Army

TheTeaDrinker (talk) 15:55, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

@TheTeaDrinker: I'm what could be called a "flyby" editor with no dog in this fight. It is a lot of work creating tables and your wholesale deletion of them, because you think they are clutter, is going to cause some hard feelings. There is a feature that you can add to any table to hide or show them and this seems to be a much more tenable solution. I have to go look up an article before I could do it -- I just posted a tables question myself because of my inexperience. But unless you can demonstrate that the information in the tables is wrong, I don't think that you should delete them. GeeBee60 (talk) 15:00, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
@TheTeaDrinker: here it is I will also post in the talk part of the article.
GeeBee60 (talk) 16:14, 19 April 2019 (UTC)
@GeeBee60: Thank you! I'll do that instead, because it's a much better solution. TheTeaDrinker (talk) 00:28, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
@TheTeaDrinker: Forgive me for jumping in I waited a couple of days and then cut and pasted this into the article that existed before your revisions. I didn't compare with your version to see if you'd made any text changes. I explain it on the talk page. Cheers, GeeBee60 (talk) 21:02, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
@GeeBee60: It's quite alright. I was dreading fixing the article, so I was putting it off. Thank you.

Re: Meaning of "esp." signifying beginning of partnership[edit]

I just now noticed that Tim Templeton wrote in his previous reply to my question about "esp.": "If they [Julian Assange and Sarah Harrison, in the infobox of the article on Assange] aren't married, it shouldn't say esp." He may have edited that in after I first saw the reply, but in any case the question then becomes what should appear to indicate the beginning of a non-marriage partnership. Also, does this mean that both "m." and "esp." are used for the beginnings of marriages? I assume in any event that if "esp." is incorrect or inappropriate in the Assange article, it should be changed to something else. Thanks. Roy McCoy (talk) 19:58, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

Pinging Timtempleton, who might want to respond. Nick Moyes (talk) 23:46, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

Thanks @Nick Moyes:. Could you please explain "u" as opposed to ping or Reply to or Talkback. I'm confused about these options and wish there were fewer of them so I wouldn't have to be. –Roy McCoy (talk) 02:32, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

@Roy McCoy: Yes, there are a lot of them, and many repeat what others do. 're' and 'ping' place an '@' sign in front of one or more users' names, whereas 'u' just displays the user's name. All, however, result in a message notification displaying on those users' pages, providing the post has been 'signed' at the same time. See WP:NOTIFICATIONS for a fuller explanation, and do check the 'See also' links to the various other templates, including 'Talkback' which allows you to direct one user to a conversational thread on another page. In essence, find just the reply and reply at templates that work for you; stick to them and don't worry about the rest. Regards from a very soggy Spain. Nick Moyes (talk) 09:30, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
@Roy McCoy: @Nick Moyes: I couldn't find any proof that they were married - only that they dated. So I updated her article and put in a request for his protected article at Talk:Julian_Assange#Protected_edit_request_on_22_April_2019 TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 23:41, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Thanks @Nick Moyes: and @Timtempleton: ping seems to be most common, so I'll try sticking with that for the time being. As for Assange, I don't think anybody said he and Harrison were ever married, and as far as I can see my question about "esp." or "m." is still unanswered. My guess would be that "m." is far more established than "esp." and should thus be preferred and even strongly. Tim's "dated" seems an improvement to "esp.", but it raises the question of whether people who have only dated someone should be listed as a partner in an infobox rather than simply mentioned within an article's chief text. –Roy McCoy (talk) 17:51, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Advice on my first draft article?[edit]

Hi all!

Just wanted to pop in to see if anyone can give me advice on my first draft article? I created the article for Draft:Dropout TV recently, for a new subscription media service. I tried to follow the same style as Netflix and Hulu, and put in information on the history of the service as well as original media. Could someone else take a look and let me know if this is appropriate? ChunyangD (talk) 04:28, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Resolved: Bkissin moved the draft to Dropout (streaming platform), thanks. – (talk) 01:14, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Hi, the same situation for me here, I just created a page for my company at Draft:Autospix. How long until this page showed up and published? RichardBravoBoss (talk) 17:03, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

You haven't submitted it for approval, RichardBravoBoss, but it would be pointless to do so as you have not demonstrated the notability (in Wikipedia's terms) of the subject. Please read the advice at WP:Your first article. You say it is for your company, so you need to read about conflict of interest and also make the mandatory declaration of paid editing. --David Biddulph (talk) 17:18, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
Thank you David Biddulph, I'll take a look for your reference suggestions. RichardBravoBoss (talk) 17:35, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Alexei Nikolaevich, Tsarevich of Russia[edit]

The lead mentions that the faith healer Grigori Rasputin "helped bring about the end of the Romanov dynasty". According to his own article, his disreputation might have spread to general disreputation of the Romanovs, but there's no source for that in either article. Regardless, the end of the Romanov dynasty shouldn't be simplified to a single cause in the lead in the biography of Alexei. Clovermoss (talk) 04:41, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Clovermoss. If you think there is something in an article that can be improved, in most cases you can go ahead and improve it yourself. The worst that can happen is that somebody reverts your change, and then if you want to take it further, you can open a discussion on the talk page, according to BRD. Alternatively, you can start a discussion on the article's talk page as your first step. There's not a lot of point in bringing it up here in the Teahouse. --ColinFine (talk) 20:16, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
ColinFine: Wow, I must have been really tired last night. I'm not entirely sure what my thought process was posting here, but I was probably thinking about posting to the article's talk page/possibly writing a note to myself to fix it. I actually completely forgot about this, so I'm going to take another look at the article now. Clovermoss (talk) 20:24, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
Hi Clovermoss. There is a source (not included in the article) citing how the Russian nobility and right-wing supporters of autocracy were convinced that Rasputin threatened the survival of the Romanov dynasty, which is the reason behind several attempts on his life (Tucker, Spencer (2005). World War I: Encyclopedia, Volume 1, p. 968). This source also states that although the faith healer did not materially affect the revolution, he might have hastened it. However, I agree that the end of the Romanov dynasty should not be attributed to a single cause. Darwin Naz (talk) 23:34, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

2019 Kerry County Council election[edit]

I have just made this page for an election in a few weeks but there are 3000 other articles under review before it. How long will it take to publish? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ElectionHack2019 (talkcontribs) 06:55, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

@ElectionHack2019: Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. As you are aware, there are thousands of drafts awaiting review; there is no guaranteed time frame for review, as they are done in no particular order by volunteers who do what they can when they can. It could be reviewed in ten minutes, or in three months. There is no way to know, you will need to be patient. 331dot (talk) 07:46, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
ElectionHack2019 I think you need to expand the draft a bit more. The draft is full of tables but has few informations as text except in lead. Keep improving the draft and someone will publish it for you. Sincerely, Masum Reza 07:54, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
Ummm - someone will review it, and decide to accept or decline. May be the latter, as you have created an article intending to report on an election that has not yet taken place. David notMD (talk) 13:46, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

I followed the same outline as that of the already published page of [2019 Dublin City Council election] so I assume it should be dealt with quickly as I would love to create all or at least some of the other pages related to the election but I wont be doing that if it turns out not to be published. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ElectionHack2019 (talkcontribs) 22:11, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Other option, I suppose, is remove the AfC submittal and just move the draft to main space yourself. David notMD (talk) 01:04, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

I tried doing the above but it didnt work? — Preceding unsigned comment added by ElectionHack2019 (talkcontribs) 16:40, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Can i give honourary names ?[edit]

Can i give honourary names in vice chancellor's section of infobox university. Can i write prof, dr, major ex... prof Satis dhawan or Dr fatima devi. --Rocky 734 (talk) 09:55, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Hi Rocky 734. I believe the answer to your question can be found in MOS:DOCTOR. Generally, Wikipedia articles don't use pre-nominal letters or post-nominal letters when referring to a person by just their name like in an infobox; information about a person's academic or professional achievements, however, can be added to the body of the article if supported by citations to reliable sources and encyclopedically relevant to the reader. -- Marchjuly (talk) 13:21, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
@Marchjuly: should i remove prof from vice chancellor section of infobox in Ouat article in other words write Soumendra Mohan Pattanaik instead of Prof. Soumendra Mohan Pattanaik. --Rocky 734 (talk) 01:09, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

adding a photo to a personal profile[edit]

This is about a wikipedia page on myself. While the contents are accurate, I think it is necessary to add a current photograph.. Reason is that Google gives photo of another person with the same name when you do a general search and this leads to many other websites also using the incorrect photo. If we can add the correct photo to the wikipedia profile this problem should get sorted out to a large extent. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arvind2015 (talkcontribs) 10:35, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

@Arvind2015: Welcome to the Teahouse. I can appreciate your concerns. Although you are already aware of your Conflict of Interest in editing an article about yourself, you may certainly upload a photo of yourself, providing you definitely own the copyright and are happy for it to be licenced for use here and elsewhere. So avoid using any official photos that a government photographer might have taken of you as you will probably not have the right to release it for use. (A picture you have taken using a tripod and self-timer is ideal). Here is a link to help you upload and release your photo to Wikimedia Commons, which may then be inserted into the article about you. I would ask, please, that you do declare your connection to the article - and you do this on your userpage, as explained at WP:COI. Do come back and let us know how you get on, or if you need further help. Regards from very soggy Spain, Nick Moyes (talk) 11:54, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
Symbol move vote.svg Are you by any chance referring to a photo or text shown to the right of a Google search? Google's Knowledge Graph uses a wide variety of sources. There may be a text paragraph ending with "Wikipedia" to indicate that particular text was copied from Wikipedia. An image and other text before or after the Wikipedia excerpt may be from sources completely unrelated to Wikipedia. We have no control over how Google presents our information, but Google's Knowledge Graph has a "Feedback" link where anyone can mark a field as wrong.--Shantavira|feed me 11:55, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
Shantavira, Arvind2015's post indicates that they already understand this. --ColinFine (talk) 20:22, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

How do you move a picture from Wikimedia or Wikicommons or whatever it’s called to Wikipedia?[edit]

Wikipedia - sit down with a cuppa, and be prepared to read the help pages.

So yah, that’s my question — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hee hee hooooo (talkcontribs) 12:15, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

@Hee hee hooooo: Welcome to the Teahouse. We don't move images into Wikipedia from Wikimedia Commons, as such, but we can go to Commons, click the relevant 'W' icon just above the image to use the file on Wikipedia, and then copy & paste the offered text into an article or user page -just as I've done here. See WP:Wikimedia Commons for more help and guidance on this topic. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 13:05, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Hi Hee hee hooooo. A picture at Wikimedia Commons can be used in Wikipedia with exactly the same syntax so there is rarely reason to move it unless it's about to be deleted at Commons for copyright reasons but can be allowed as fair use in a Wikipedia article. The usual method is to just upload it like a new file. Which picture do you have in mind? PrimeHunter (talk) 13:06, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

How do you respond to something? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hee hee hooooo (talkcontribs) 13:23, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

@Hee hee hooooo: Like what you just did, but use colons (:::::::::::::::::::::: <- these) to indent as Nick and I have done. Add one colon to the amount the last person used. -A lainsane (Channel 2) 18:26, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Help please![edit]

I just created an article for Judith Schwarz but intended to create a draft article. Can you help me to move this article into a draft please! Sorry, still new and made a mistake....LorriBrown (talk) 16:26, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

 Done - I think you should have been able to move it yourself, see WP:move. --David Biddulph (talk) 16:36, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
Okay David Biddulph & thank you for moving it! I'll read up on that. :-) LorriBrown (talk) 17:37, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Entries on Desmond Patrick Costello and Ian Milner[edit]

Sorry I failed to sign my name on the previous entry: Mertonabbbey — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mertonabbbey (talkcontribs) 16:39, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Mertonabbbey, to sign your posts, type four tildes like this: ~~~~ at the end; it will produce this: valereee (talk) 17:39, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

revising and resubmitting a draft[edit]

Hi! I recently drafted my first Wikipedia entry and it was rejected so I revised according to the suggestions and I think I resubmitted it, but it does not look the same (the page did not have the same confirmation that it was under review) as when I submitted the first draft. Would someone be able to confirm that "Draft: Duncan Ryuken Williams" is in line to be reviewed? Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Janehisa (talkcontribs) 2019-04-22T18:34:55 (UTC)

Hello, Janehisa. You had not submitted Draft:Duncan Ryūken Williams for review. I have added a header so that you can do so when you think it is ready. I don't advise you to do so yet: the section headings are not properly formatted, and (more seriously) nor are the citations. Please read Referencing for beginners.
I can't work out how you created the draft: your edit summary, and the comment above, indicate that you changed it from a previous draft, but both its history and your own contribution history show that there has only been a single edit to create it (before mine). I guess you must have saved the text of the deleted draft, and created a new draft with it; but if that was deleted because it was a copyright infringement, then it is going to take more than "revising" to avoid that problem.
According to PAID, you should put disclosures on the (draft) article's talk page, and on your own user page: at present you have done so on your own user talk page, which is not the right place.
Finally, in talk and discussion pages (such as this one) please sign any contributions with four tildes (~~~~): I had to go looking in the history of this page to find who you were. It's also helpful to Wikilink the page you are referring to: if you had said [[Draft:Duncan Ryūken Williams]], it would display as Draft:Duncan Ryūken Williams, and I could have gone straight to it. In fact, you need to Wikilink some appropriate words in the draft as well. --ColinFine (talk) 20:44, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

If a content is sourced to a personal, self-published blog (written by a non-notable writer), should that content be removed from the article?[edit]

This went off the tracks quickly. This started out as a request for information well within our scope here and that was provided. Somewhere along the line the merits of a particular content dispute became the subject of this thread. That is outside the scope of the Teahouse. Please take this to the applicable article talk pages(s). From there follow procedures outlined at WP:DR and please AGF. John from Idegon (talk) 18:36, 23 April 2019 (UTC) (non-admin closure)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

When I read WP:RSSELF, about self-published sources, it seems clear to me that those can't be used as sources. This makes sense to me, as anyone can write something about any topic and put it on their blog and call it a source, and that would be disastrous. So I think I understand that policy. Nevertheless, when I removed content from John M. Ford that was sourced to exactly that, a self-published source by a non-notable, I have been reverted, more than once. So I thought I would ask here, as I've gotten help here before. Thank you. SteamboatPhilly (talk) 17:36, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Please note that the article in question is not a BLP, and that StramboatPhilly's attention has been drawn to WP:SPS, specifically "Self-published expert sources may be considered reliable when produced by an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable, independent publications". The source in question,, follows these specifications and is explicitly discussed (in relation to an adjacent field) here. Yet SteamboatPhilly continues to pursue an edit war in contravention of BRD norms. Newimpartial (talk) 18:03, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
Actually, it does not say that they can't be used as sources. It says that they need to be used correctly, and lists several places where self-published sources could be used. It depends on the context of the citation. That being said, when there is a dispute, the correct course of action is to 1) remove the disputed text (the burden of proof is on a person who wishes to include some bit of information) and 2) Discuss the matter on the article talk page to reach consensus. --Jayron32 18:07, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
Thank you Jayron32, I especially appreciate the part where you mentioned that "the burden of proof is on a person who wishes to include some bit of information", I was not aware of that page till now. SteamboatPhilly (talk) 18:17, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
Not exactly. Since this is not a BLP, per BRD we revert to the stable version while the discussion takes place. Newimpartial (talk) 18:15, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
That's not what WP:BURDEN says. It says "Any material lacking a reliable source directly supporting it may be removed and should not be restored without an inline citation to a reliable source." and does not carve out a special exception for non-BLPs. --Jayron32 18:22, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
But the material in question is directly cited to a reliable source per WP:SPS. Since the additional restrictions placed on BLPs do not apply, the stable version should remain. In any event, there was no excuse for SteamboatPhilly to exceed 3RR on this non-BLP article. Newimpartial (talk) 19:42, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
It's only a "stable version" because you're a fan of the subject of the article, you added the content from a self-published, and no one else is paying attention to the article until I saw it. That doesn't mean that it's okay to keep content sourced to a self-published source in the article. And now another fan has re-added the content from a self-published source. Jayron32, is that how this works? If two people keep re-adding unreliable content, does it get to stay, even if it clearly violates the rules on reliable sources? SteamboatPhilly (talk) 22:43, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
SteamboatPhilly, whom I assume to be an inexperienced editor, is making incorrect assertions. Even a casual perusal of the page history for John M. Ford will show that I did not add the content in question, nor is there any evidence that I am a "fan" of the subject. All I have done is revert the removal of sourced content, objected to misleading edit summaries, started a Talk page discussion on the issue, and supported BRD while objecting to EW. I actually think there would be an UNDUE argument to the content in question - I don't have a horse in that race - but the sourcing is a complete red herring. Newimpartial (talk) 23:11, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
It. Is. A. Self. Published. Source. You keep saying "sourced content" but you ignore the fact that the source is self-published. You pointed to some page that says the writer of that content is considered reliable - but that page says he's reliable on the topic of web comics. Nothing more. John M. Ford is not a web comic. John M. Ford did not write web comics. You've ignored all of that in your quest to be "right", but you're not. This is really clear to me and I wish someone with some authority would weigh in on it, because after reading the policies, I can't see how any reasonable impartial person would disagree. SteamboatPhilly (talk) 03:54, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Should I delete my draft and post the article myself?[edit]

I submitted an article a few weeks ago and it's still under review, which I totally understand given how many drafts there are to be reviewed and everything. But should I just remove my draft article and then submit it as an article without being reviewed, now that my account is old enough? Or just wait it out? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apathyash (talkcontribs) 17:41, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Apathyash: no, don't do that: what we don't want is the same material in two places in Wikipedia. You may, if you choose, simply move the draft to main space, and remove the {{subst:AFC submission}} template from the top. If you do that, you are taking responsibility for it being acceptable, and if somebody thinks it is not, they may return it, or even nominate it for deletion.
I'm not sure which draft you mean: if it is Draft:We Are The Tigers, then you haven't submitted it for review. You can do that by pasting {{subst:submit}} at the top (including the double curly brackets). --ColinFine (talk) 20:50, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
hi ColinFine, as David mentioned, I have had the submit yellow box on the page for two weeks, it was just at the bottom before. Is that alright? Should I move the page to the main space myself or is it wiser to wait?Apathyash (talk) 21:37, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
Submit template added, but at bottom. I suggest waiting for the AfC process to take place. IMO needs work. Better a decline, with advice, than you move it to main space and someone starts a deletion action. David notMD (talk) 21:26, 22 April 2019 (UTC)


Should I be concerned ive had this message from Wikipedia, to my knowledge ive never edited and don't even think I have an account?

"Hello, I'm Shellwood. I wanted to let you know that I reverted one of your recent contributions —specifically this edit to 888casino— because it did not appear constructive. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you have any questions, you can ask for assistance at the Help Desk. Thanks. Shellwood (talk) 00:14, 26 May 2018 (UTC) If this is a shared IP address, and you did not make the edits, consider creating an account for yourself or logging in with an existing account so you can avoid further irrelevant notices.

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Wikipedia, as you did with this edit to List of feminists. Your edits appear to constitute vandalism and have been reverted or removed. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. Repeated vandalism can result in the loss of editing privileges. Thank you. Shellwood (talk) 00:21, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

I did try to find a way to contact Shellwood but don't know how — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:53, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

You should be able to post on Shellwood's talk page. However, I will inform you that you're not going to have much luck contesting that, in fact if you continue editing as you have you may very likely be blocked. This policy might be a nive bedtime read for you. -A lainsane (Channel 2) 18:24, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
The important part of the message from Shellwood is that back in May 2018, the IP address you have recently edited from was used to vandalize articles. No need to contact Shellwood. Best advice is to register an account. This will give you a clean history. David notMD (talk) 18:59, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
Sorry, I missed the date. Thanks for that. -A lainsane (Channel 2) 23:13, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

I have no intention of ever editing nor have I ever edited, so I take it someone has used my IP address at least twice once in 2018 and once recently to match the adresses — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C5:751F:6500:5091:44D2:29CE:85CA (talk) 19:03, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

It's not a matter of "someone has used my IP address": depending on how your ISP allocates them, your IP address may change from time to time, and another customer may get given your old one. See the box at the bottom of User talk: --ColinFine (talk) 20:53, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

First time considering submitting an article for deletion[edit]

I have run across, from a link on another article, the article Elise Matthesen. It looks to me that this is a non-notable person, as there is no coverage of her in reliable sources. The references in the article are mostly her own work, plus a mention of her in someone else's obituary, a self-published blog-type source, and a source that doesn't appear to mention her at all. I think that deleting this article is the right thing to do, but I've never gone through a deletion process before (the page on nominating an article is a bit intimidating) and I didn't want to be 100% wrong on my first try. I would appreciate if someone could take a quick look and advise me. I also would not be against someone else deleting it, just so that I can follow the process and see how to do it right. Thank you! SteamboatPhilly (talk) 17:58, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

SteamboatPhilly, You could always use Twinkle to make the nomination. It's a piece of cake :). Adam9007 (talk) 18:06, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
Wow that is the best advice I've gotten yet on anything. Thank you! I'm trying it out. SteamboatPhilly (talk) 18:14, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
You could also try a "PROposed Deletion" with {{PROD}}, it's simpler than an AfD, and folks might miss that it is related to some content dispute about John M. Ford‎ discussed above.Face-tongue.svg To get a 3rd opinion I'd try WP:3O or ask on a noticeboard (WP:RS/N, WP:BLP/N, …). – (talk) 03:43, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
The Twinkle page, which took me about 45 seconds to read, seems to make deletion nomination about as simple as it could possibly be. When I look at "PROposed Deletion" I get the same feeling I got when I looked at the main articles for deletion page - no thanks. I'll stick with Twinkle. SteamboatPhilly (talk) 04:00, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
The freaking rules always look convoluted on enwiki, but it boils down to type {{subst:PROD|reason}} at the top of the page, an edit summary mentioning "delete", and a courtesy info on the talk page of the creator. Okay, you have to know that PROD isn't allowed after an older PROD or AfD.
I'd bet that your tool cheats and "forgets" the required courtesy info. IIRC you also have to pick a category for the deletion, Ceethekreator managed all those project info messages on the AfD page. – (talk) 06:41, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Resolving language links for templates[edit]

I was looking at the template Template:Infobox ski area when I found that the most recent edit was one that added a link to the corresponding template on the Slovene Wikipedia (and that template also includes a link to the English template). This confused me, as I'd never seen this done before, but checking the Wikidata item for the template, it doesn't list the Slovene version in the list of language versions. When I tried to add this Slovene version to it, it errored and said that the Slovene version is already linked to another, unrelated, Wikidata item. What should be done to fix this? I've never dealt with language linking before, and I'd like to know how to fix this. Gary600playsmc (talk) 18:56, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Gary600playsmc. I've fixed it. I simply removed the link from d:Q1013176 to sl:Predloga:Infopolje_Smučišče, since it was obviously wrong, and then I could add the Slovenian template into d:Q7391497. I've then removed the explicit link in Template:Infobox ski area. (I thought this was going to be a pervasive and troubling problem with Wikidata, where articles in different languages have a different scope, so there are two or more articles in one language which correspond to one in another language. Wikidata doesn't have a solution to this. But it turned out to be easier). --ColinFine (talk) 21:12, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Kalpana Mohan Page[edit]

Hi, Thank you for your response. I am a fan & not an expert in writing or editing. Initially, I had made changes in the edit but stopped as caution by Oshwah. As ‪Symmachus Auxiliarus‬ mention in his message that "Note that IMDB alone can't be used to establish notability, in the Wikipedia sense of the word. " I agreed fact-checked can be done from the other sources like youtube videos. I can send you the link to verify the credentials of her work. I have edited the extra detail such as directors & co-star. I hope this is fine.

Filmography 1. Pyar Ki Jeet (1962) 2. Naughty Boy (1962) 3. Professor (1962) 4. Saheli (1965) 5. Teesra Kaun (1965) 6. Teen Devian (1965) 7. Biwi Aur Makan (1966) 8. Tasveer (1966) 9. Pyar Kiye Jaa (1966) 10. Nawab Sirazuddaula (1967) 11. Ek Bechara (1972)

Early life: She was also an accomplished Kathak dancer trained under Pandit Shambhu Maharaj. She was a good swimmer & Horse rider too.

Career: Nehru often invited Kalpana, a trained Kathak dancer, to dance at the Rashtrapati Bhavan whenever dignitaries visited. Actor Balraj Sahani and Urdu writer Ismat Chughtai spotted the beautiful dancer and encouraged her to come to Mumbai and try her luck in films.

References 1. The Unhappy Married Life of Actress Kalpana | Tabassum Talkies

2. Pt.J Nehru Favourite Actress |News Filmy Hai

3. The IMDB

Thank you for the invitation to Teahouse. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yashkkaryan (talkcontribs) 20:34, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

@Yashkkaryan: YouTube videos are not generally forbidden as references, but on enwiki videos in another language without English subtitles won't help. Articles in newspapers might be okay, if it's a newspaper with a page on enwiki, excl. The Sun and similar fake-news "sources". – (talk) 03:58, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
@Yashkkaryan: The IP's answer is incorrect, sources in any language are acceptable, but keep in mind that Youtube can be a problematic source. Mainstream news, magazine articles, or books from reputable publishers (in any language) are usually better than Youtube videos. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 19:01, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
The answer was a summary of WP:YOUTUBE×WP:NONENGEL, where have you seen YouTube videos without English subtitles used as references? – (talk) 22:28, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Good day[edit]

Good day, sir, i want to know how to improve editing skill? Actually i just try to edit one for wiki, i just followed the code and it turned out fine, but i want to learn more editing and how to make page in encyclopedia.

Thank you and regards. Hope you will help me.— Preceding unsigned comment added by Kayekrim (talkcontribs)

@Kayekrim: Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. A good way to learn more about editing is to use the new user tutorial. 331dot (talk) 21:39, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Kung Fu styles[edit]

Hello, I have an idea for Kung Fu style article. What is the rules or the notability guidelines criteria for such articles.

Thanks. (talk) 21:27, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. You may want to try seeing if the Chinese martial arts article(where Kung Fu redirects to) either has the information you want to add or not before attempting to write a separate article about it, and maybe what you want to add could go there. Either way, I think the general notability guideline would be what you are looking for; in short, you need to have significant coverage in independent reliable sources. 331dot (talk) 21:35, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

Question about marriage circa date in infobox[edit]

Hi Teahouse friends,

Recently I edited the infobox in an artist's page but I only know the rough date that they were married (but the widowed date is certain). Is there a way to reflect this without creating an error? It is the bio for Melissa Beowulf.

Thank you for your time! - SunnyBoi (talk) 23:01, 22 April 2019 (UTC)

@SunnyBoi: I can't be sure, but I think the c. template will work. Thanks for asking! -A lainsane (Channel 2) 23:11, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
  • @SunnyBoi: Since the marriage date does not seem to be sourced, I would remove it entirely, rather than put in a guesstimate (unless such guesstimate is given in a source). TigraanClick here to contact me 09:18, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

How add photos to an article, specifically "The Epic of American Civilization".[edit]

I have photos I took as an undergard, about 1951 of Orozco frescos at Dartmouth discussed in The Epic of American Civilization. Can they (should be?) added to article? How? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 00:26, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello, IP user. Adding images to an article is done in two stages: first, upload the images (to Wikimedia Commons if possible, or otherwise to Wikipedia itself), and then add the image to the article. See Help:Files.
Normally, if you took the photos yourself, you hold the copyright, and you have complete right to release them (if you choose) under a license suitable for Wikimedia Commons. However, if your photos are of a work of art, I'm not sure you have that right: I think it may be a derivative work, in which the original artist also holds copyright. Please see commons:commons:Derivative works for more information.
If an image cannot be licensed appropriately, it is sometimes possible to upload it Wikipedia under a "fair use" rule, but it would need to satisfy all the criteria in Non-free content criteria. --ColinFine (talk) 17:34, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Can I add my Amazon Prime TV series to Wikipedia?[edit]

Gooday everyone - complete Wikipedia (editing) newbie here. This is a question that I'm sure gets asked rather frequently, so please, be gentle.

I have my own TV series on Amazon Prime, called Travels by Narrowboat. Originally the early seasons aired on YouTube but are now available exclusively on both the Pay Per View platform, Vimeo On Demand (VOD) and now also Amazon Prime (currently season one).

At the moment the series stands at 5 seasons and 34 episodes (on VOD), and it's popularity is expanding daily. The series has also just received it's own verified Google Knowledge Panel (which is a little garbled at the moment).

Simple question then, is this series suitable for inclusion on Wikipedia (like The Grand Tour for example) and if so, am I permitted to write this page myself please, (or how does one go about getting it created)?

Cheers in anticipation, Kevin — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevinshelley (talkcontribs) 00:44, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Check out Entourage (U.S. TV series), Durch die Nacht mit ..., or the Web series James Gunn's PG Porn as examples. If your series has similar independent reliable sources, e.g., NYT articles or Emmy awards, it would be notable. Also see WP:COI, you have an obvious Conflict Of Interest. "On demand" reduces your chances to below 0° C. – (talk) 04:14, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello and thank you for replying. I'd never heard of Entourage but I have now, thank you. Looks very interesting - sounds rather like the 'journey' I've been on. Perhaps it'll be best to wait until all the hard work and seasons are completed, and then attempt a Wikipedia page 'after' I've done the same amount of work promoting it? Cheers for your help, Kevin — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kevinshelley (talkcontribs) 12:57, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Kevinshelley. Please note that promotion of any kind is forbidden on Wikipedia. If you are thinking about a Wikipedia article for any reason that might be thought of as promotional - as part of your online presence, for example, or to tell the world about your series - then you are fundamentally at odds with the purpose of Wikipedia, and likely to have a rough ride. Wikipedia is only interested in things that the world has already been told about. Sorry. --ColinFine (talk) 17:39, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Does my IP address stay if I change a Wikipedia page and sign in?[edit]


It was an accident and I wish I can undo it without any traces left

does it go away if you sign in? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hatintime (talkcontribs) 01:56, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

@Hatintime: Yes, your IP address is hidden to the typical editor when you are signed in. There is a group of special editors called Checkusers who can view it, but they are trusted not to excepting very unusual circumstances. -A lainsane (Channel 2) 02:00, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Any edits you make while logged out will be recorded by its IP address in the page's edit history. But as noted above, there is no way for a typical user to tie your account name to an IP. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 02:49, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
  • @Hatintime: if you accidentally edited a page while logged out, your IP will be logged in the page history (which anyone can see). See WP:OVERSIGHT to ask for the log entry to be removed from public view if that happened. Do not put the details of the request on a public Wikipedia page such as here, but do give them in your email to oversight. TigraanClick here to contact me 09:15, 24 April 2019 (UTC)


Is there a page that recommends pages that need fixing? I need some pages to be recommended to me to fix. LonelyHorse9 (talk) 04:44, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

@LonelyHorse9: There are many ways to find such pages. For example, if you're interested in video games, go to Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games. Here they have an extensive listing of pages that need fixing: Wikipedia:WikiProject Video games/Backlog. – Finnusertop (talkcontribs) 04:58, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Lots of places @LonelyHorse9:! there is also WP:COM the community portal (its also linked on the list, left side of your screen, under "Interaction") which has lists of things that need fixing, from adding wikilinks, fixing spelling and grammar, to adding references and updating articles. Curdle (talk) 05:08, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Categories in sandboxes[edit]

If I copy an article into my sandbox to play with, does it matter if I also have the category labels? I see that makes my sandbox show up on the category pages, which isn't ideal. But will anyone mind? (Use case: copy article source to sandbox, do a series of edits that makes it worse and then better, check that the article hasn't been edited since, copy sandbox to article) Iamnotabunny (talk) 06:01, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Just comment that out, i.e., add <!--  before the categories in your sandbox, and add  --> after the categories. Alternatively disable the categories with a leading :, e.g., replace [[Category:FooBar]] by [[:Category:FooBar]]. User pages (incl. sandboxes) popping up in categories not designed for user pages are seriously disruptive, it's about the only reason when I'd edit user pages of other users to fix this. – (talk) 06:15, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Overwriting an article by copying from your sandbox can be tricky if there have been several other edits since you copied it. The method might be OK for articles that are seldom edited, but it would be better to make incremental changes to the live article if others are also editing it. Dbfirs 06:22, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm mostly doing this for articles that have hardly been edited for years. Ok, will fix. Iamnotabunny (talk) 23:56, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

An article for a services company[edit]

Hello there,

Greetings community

I wanted to inquire about having an article for a profit organization, from the KYC and identity services industry. I have read many of the community guidelines, specially notability and many other crucial ones. Is the right way to draft an article myself or request an article at companies and economics page. In my short research, I found the company to be fairly new but expanded quite rapidly and developed decent services. The organization seems to be recognized for it's AI use and services. Can references, referring to such collaborations and services come under notability and an article be made for the time being, keeping in mind information present in these references? The article which can later be updated, as more referenceable information becomes available about the company.

thank you for considering and feedback much required! (Grevision (talk) 07:01, 23 April 2019 (UTC))

Hello Grevision, and welcome to the Teahouse. If you have read Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) and Wikipedia:Your first article and concluded that you have good sources per this guidance, go ahead, you may or may not succeed. I get the feeling that WP:COIEDIT is relevant here, if so, follow it rigorously. I suggest the "make a draft yourself" path, then submit it for approval.
One more thing. Your username is the name of a company, and that is not allowed under WP-policy, though something like "Kim at Grevision" or "Grevision employee 7" is fine. So you need to WP:Change username. Good luck! Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:08, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Up and coming next big thing may be relevant. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:10, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Thank you @Gråbergs Gråa Sång: for the prompt response and valuable feedback. I have gone through the COI guidelines, in my case, it is more of an SME or Subject Matter Expert intention that I seek to implement from. Additional guidance if there is a combo of COI and SME existing would be much appreciated. I bare no inclination towards any one company and seek for the improvement of content concerning this industry and the inclusion of such companies under wikiproject: Companies to the benefit of the Wikipedia community at large voluntarily.

thank you for pointing out the user name, I shall update it accordingly. (Grevision (talk) 07:45, 23 April 2019 (UTC))

Grevision, Wikipedia:Expert editors could have some of what you want. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:12, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Oxford Dictionary of National Biography[edit]

Does anyone have a subscription to the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography? I want to get a copy of this entry on Cuthbert Eden Heath, OBE, for a Wikipedia article on him: [1]. Thanks for any assistance. Gillywell (talk) 07:24, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Gillywell, you could try Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:28, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Gillywell, the link you gave is to the ONDB article anyway: seems you have it and all the information you need. (Incidentally, typo in the name: Cuthbert, not Cuthberth). If you are a member of a public library in the UK it's likely that you can access the ONDB and other Oxford references online with your membership card. Emeraude (talk) 08:34, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
The link is just to the extract, Emeraude. I presume that Gillywell wants to access the full text of the article. Gillywell, I have access to the text, so if you e-mail me (you'll need to turn on this function by following the instructions at WP:ENABLEEMAIL), I can attach it in reply. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:03, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Hi everyone thanks for the assistance. I fixed the typo in my request; however I'm not a UK resident. I have emailed Cordless Larry per his instructions and will await hearing back from him. Gillywell (talk) 09:18, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Gillywell & Cordless Larry My error. I hadn't realised that I was already logged in to ODNB when I clicked the link! Seems the original request has now been resolved, so well done. Emeraude (talk) 09:41, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Understanding Notability[edit]

Hello everyone. I am having an issue understanding the notability in Wikipedia.

I am trying to submit a standalone article of a person who has around 700K followers on Instagram, 200K followers on Youtube, etc ... and is famous in a region for instance. How do I use this material to support the notability? Thanks Wissam — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wabdelbaki (talkcontribs) 07:26, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello Wabdelbaki. Per WP:BASIC, you don't. Number of followers on YT etc doesn't (directly) matter. If the number of followers have resulted in coverage in reliable sources (WP:RS), then you can use that coverage. If there is no such coverage, then you can't create a (surviving) article at this point. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:37, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Hi Wabdelbaki,and welcome to the Teahouse. Many new editors confuse being famous with being notable. People who are well-known will often be notable in the Wikipedia sense, but being famous for a short time or in a limited area might or might not result in the subject being written about in newspapers and other independent sources. Dbfirs 10:51, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Kelly Hyman (TV Legal Commentator, Lawyer and Actress)[edit]

Dear Teahouse, I am working on a wikipedia article and I feel the following links justify notability for Kelly Hyman. Could you kindly review before I start working on the article. Thank you.

09:12, 23 April 2019 (UTC)Josephintechnicolor (talk)

To other editor. Please see the SALT log at Kelly Hyman, Kelly Hyman (lawyer) and Kelly Hyman (attorney) before replying potential paid editing. Also, the right venue would be WP:Deletion Review. Matthew hk (talk) 10:32, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
FYI to everyone: Kelly Hyman as an article has been repeatedly created and deleted, dating as far back as 2014, most recently by Josephintechnicolor. Administrator approval required before a new draft can be submitted. IMO, looking at list of proposed refs would be wasted time until an Admin approves a retry. David notMD (talk) 11:46, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Josephintechnicolor: the two links above that I bothered to follow (the first and third) are both based on interviews with Hyman, and thus cannot contribute in any way to her notability. Either you have failed to understand the criteria for notability, or you are desperately trying to sneak over the bar. In view of the comments above, I suspect the latter. --ColinFine (talk) 17:52, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
ColinFine Thank you for bothering. This goes well beyond the interviews with Forbes and Entrepreneur . Please consider this fact, Kelly was invited by FOX TV several times (and other Legal TV shows) and gave expert legal commentary and she continues to do so. I feel the citizens of America who watch and listen to Fox TV would consider Kelly notable. When FOX asks for HER opinion in front of millions it is only natural for a viewer to assume that person is notable. In conjunction with the interviews the News TV appearances further warrant her notability and inclusion in Wikipedia. I was originally told that beyond Kelly's "The Young and the Restless" role she is not notable but if we now add the FOX TV and interviews shouldn't that carry enough weight in a cumulative manner for the notability test? Kelly is a fighting legal public advocate and compared to Erin Brockovich, putting herself on the line to protect consumers. Is that an everyday feat done my millions? No. There are FEW good Samaritans, Kelly is one of the last of this breed. I will submit via WP:Deletion Review thank you. I appreciate your critique. Please note: you are quick to condemn my submission but when someone like Matthew HK obliterates NAZI relevancy from qualified sources on the wikipedia article of Raiffeisen Zentralbank he does not even get a slap on the wrist, how can he still be allowed on this platform is well beyond me. If I added NAZI affiliation to Krispy Kreme Wikipedia would he remove them as well or is it only Raiffeisen he is protecting? I will find out. There seems to be some protectionism going on. Thank you. (Note: I had nothing to do with past Kelly submissions and my goal here is to get my recent submission reviewed and approved, there is no payment and I mentioned that many times. Just look at my articles, how could any of them be paid? 1) Rivercrest Mental Asylum long closed down, 2) deceased Supreme Court Judge from Italy). Matthew hk David notMD 10:37, 24 April 2019 (UTC)Josephintechnicolor (talk)
Josephintechnicolor. I have no interest in Hyman, and have no wish to be further involved in this. I contributed solely to give you (my view of) Wikipedia's requirements and how you do not appear to me to be meeting them. From the part of your tl;dr above that I read, I conclude that you have not understood the special Wikipedia meaning of Notability, as you appear to be arguing on the basis of a different meaning of the word. I concede that the meaning you are using is the one in general use, but Wikipedia, as a private venture, is entitled to use any criteria it chooses for what is an acceptable subject, and has (re)defined the word "notability" accordingly. What you need is several places where people who have no connection with Hyman have chosen to write (or speak) at some length about her, and been published in reliable places. It is possible that your list of links contains such, but if so you have buried them among links that do not. Understand that not one word that Hyman has spoken, written, or published, contributes to her notability (in the Wikipedia sense). And not one word that her friends, colleagues, or associates have spoken or written about her contributes. And nor is any number of followers or likes - in fact, almost nothing on social media - relevant.
On the last part (which I have only glanced at): if you think that somebody else is behaving inappropriately on Wikipedia, engage with them in discussion (see BRD, or if it is their behaviour per se that you think is inappropriate, WP:ANI is the place to bring this up. None of this has any relevance to whether your submissions are accepted or not. --ColinFine (talk) 14:30, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
ColinFine I really appreciate your feedback. Well noted on the rest, thank you.05:46, 25 April 2019 (UTC)Josephintechnicolor (talk)

Follow-up to Review my first created business page[edit]

New article, is needed to change smth. for approval?

Hi, everyone! Thank you for your support and contribution. I have a purpose to create many articles and edit, improving our Wikipedia day by day. Now I created my first article, Global Data Intelligence Limited, and do not know if it's ok. Added some reviews. Please, give me some recommendations if is needed to change something or add. Thank you in advance! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Trymemore (talkcontribs)

Article is currently at AFD (not by me). shoy (reactions) 14:12, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
@Trymemore: WP:ORGCRIT looks good as a guideline. I've tweaked your article, e,g., I replaced a "forbidden" Crunchbase by an allowed Companies House reference. So far none of the references are obviously Reliable Sources (RS), check out the three competitors listed by you as good examples. Maybe suggest to move the article back to a draft in the AfD, but I'm not sure what's the best strategy at this point. – (talk) 01:35, 25 April 2019 (UTC) Thank you so much for your advice! It's so helpful! I also thought to move the article into the draft, but someone moved back into the article, I do not know how correct is it. Hope everything we will resolve together with Wikipedia editors. :)

Why was my edit removed?[edit]

Good afternoon,

I signed up to Wikipedia today as I often see football players not being credited for certain awards they have achieved and would like to update these when possible. This morning I made an edit to the page of "Billy Sharp" to add his EFL League One Top Goalscorer awards to his page and this was removed. I understand that this may be due to the fact I couldn't figure out how to Hyperlink the specific seasons, player name, etc... Was this the only reason? What should I do to make updates that will not be removed? Was the source not adequate? The comment was removed rather than being fixed and his accolades are not on his page which I find strange. Any feedback, especially from the user who removed the comment, would be appreciated.

Best, Ryan — Preceding unsigned comment added by RyanFrog11 (talkcontribs) 13:30, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Top scorer is a fact (see EFL League One for list, including three listings for Billy Sharp), but not an honour or award per se. The existing articles on other players who have been top scorers in one or more seasons do not list 'Top Scorer' as an honour. David notMD (talk) 15:04, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Should summaries for TV/Movies/Plays/Books contain plot spoilers?[edit]

What I mean is, when entering a piece of media as a new article, should the synopsis actually outline the entire plot? Or should it be a more basic summary? Some movie articles on Wikipedia have the entire plot scene by scene, while others have just the little summary from the back of the dvd kind of thing. Is one better than the other? Should I avoid entering spoilers in an article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apathyash (talkcontribs) 13:59, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Apathyash, Spoilers are included, there is no reason not to. I believe it falls under "Wikipedia is not censored". Hope that helps! WelpThatWorked (talk) 14:23, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Apathyash, you'll find a bit of additional information about this aspect at Wikipedia:Spoiler (we do not omit "spoiler" information as long as it is relevant and encyclopedic). Advice about how to write encyclopedic plot summaries is available at MOS:PLOT and WP:FILMPLOT. Generally speaking, plot summaries should be succinct and focus on a brief description of the overall plot, not on describing every secondary detail. But please feel free to ask here anytime, if you have additional questions about these aspects. GermanJoe (talk) 14:37, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Fix a issue tag[edit]

Hello, Please I would like that a volunteer or contributor can fix issues in my page. Weeks ago had been tagged but not one fixed. Thanks --Wiki-marshall (talk) 14:39, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

The article Delmi Álvarez appears to be an autobiographical article, and has been tagged as such. It was created in 2006, but User Delmi has been a major contributor since 2014, as the length of the article increased from 6,000 t0 82,000 bytes. Much of the content is without references, and appears to be based on recollections of the subject of the article. IMO the autobio tag should stay until other editors have made major changes to the article. David notMD (talk) 15:12, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Delmi, I have left you a message at the article talk page. --valereee (talk) 16:53, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Wiki page "reads like advertisement"...[edit]

Can someone help me edit my draft so my page doesn't read like an advertisement. There are plenty of wiki pages about sports teams (pro through amateur) and I am just trying to add another. I have all the information and references to the club and such, but I still get reviewer notes that it reads like an advertisement.

Is anyone able to help me get this edited? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Allusivereaper7 (talkcontribs) 14:40, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Hi Allusivereaper7 and welcome to the Teahouse. I assume the question is about Draft:New Hampshire Wolves Hurling Club which was rejected for reading like an advert and for not having sufficient WP:Reliable sources. Youtube is not considered reliable since anyone can put anything there. Can you find independent sources where the club has been written about, perhaps in newspapers? When you have improved the article a little further, just click the submit button for another review. In particular, who says that the club "has seen continued growth and success", and who says that "the documentary remains popular with military and hurling enthusiasts"? Dbfirs 15:15, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Hello Dbfirs, the youtube references are for the videos mentioned, and are from reliable sources that also posted them on youtube as well as being broadcast on TV and military networks. And there are other independent sources and articles about the club that are noted in the references so I didn't think those were issues. I've added another reference textbook and removed the phrases I can't track a source down, but its all essentially the same text with articles from reliable sources.
Yes, Youtube is OK for certain things, but reviewers don't like a whole list of Youtube refs. I see you have now submitted the draft for review. I hope it is accepted this time. Dbfirs 17:46, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Deleting a subpage of my user page[edit]

How do I do this? Jmar67 (talk) 17:43, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

@Jmar67: Add the {{db-u1}} template to the subpage you wish to have deleted and it will be processed by an admin according to WP:CSD#U1. Regards SoWhy 18:00, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

pseudoscientific theories Graham Hancoc[edit]

I found this article completely wrong on its use of the word "pseudoscientific" theories and Graham Hancock in the same article.

Please see Joe Rogan #1284 for scientific rebuttal of this false accusation. Wiki has made a serious error to allow this.the site should contain the recent " nature" paper proving some of his claims.

If this is about our article on Graham Hancock, then I would consider the description fair. You are welcome to discuss changes on the talk page of the article. Dbfirs 18:01, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
What are Joe Rogan's credentials that allow what he says to be taken as reasonable rebuttals? --Jayron32 18:45, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
He is mixed martial arts color commentator, what more do you need? Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 20:15, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
I think it is more his standup comedy which is more applicable here. Maybe Fear Factor. --Jayron32 23:40, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

How to Gwt Fully Protection for a Page?[edit]

Someone (an actor named Rangga Dj0ned) asking me to handle & conplete his Wikipedia page. He gave me his CV file & some picture,but the page is always gettin' edited by another user. I feel so inresponsibility for that to happen. So,I want to fet full protection for Rangga Djoned english wikipedia page I create yesterday. Can anyone help me? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Arieflongbottom91 (talkcontribs) 18:31, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

@Arieflongbottom91: Pages are only protected to prevent vandalism. You don't control the page. Please read WP:OWN and WP:PAID. RudolfRed (talk) 18:42, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
@Arieflongbottom91: (ec) Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. You seem to be referring to a subpage of your user page, which is not article space. It won't be seen by the general public by search engines; they would have to come here and know where to find it. According to the edit history, no one else has edited it except to move it off your user talk page(a page meant for communication with you) to its current location and to remove inappropriate categories, so I'm not sure what you are concerned about. Pages are not protected just because the primary author does not want others to edit them.
I would further add that any page about this person is not "their page", but a page about them. They have no special rights to it or control over it, and cannot dictate what appears there on their own. You cannot prevent others from editing it just because you don't want them to. This is not social media where you can say what you want about yourself and keep others from editing about you. This is a collaborative project to write an encyclopedia. If this person just wants to tell the world about themselves and indeed control what appears on their page, they should use Facebook or social media. A Wikipedia article is not necessarily desirable, as well.
Furthermore, if this person asked or hired you to represent them here, you must comply with the conflict of interest and paid editing policies. If you are employed by this actor, the latter policy is a Terms of Use requirement and not negotiable. 331dot (talk) 18:43, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
Arie has since declared paid relationship on User page. John from Idegon blanked the entire draft because of no references and undeclared paid. The article can be rescued as a draft and references added. As a draft, you can work on improving it, but there is no rule to stop other editors from making changes. This can happen because editors are trying to help the draft come into compliance with what is allowed in a Wikipedia article. If the draft is submitted and accepted, it can continue to be edited by other editors, as long as content is supported by valid references. There is no ownership. David notMD (talk) 20:37, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Ted Kaehler[edit]

Ted Kaehler is mentioned at least 20 times in various articles about programming languages, but there is no page for him. Consider this a request. Keith Henson (talk) 18:48, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Keith Henson, this request will probably be forgotten if you only put it here; you should add it here. Eman235/talk 18:57, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
@Hkhenson: Also, per WP:REDYES, it's not only allowed but encouraged to red link any instances of the name in other articles if the subject is notable but has no article yet. The more articles link to a non-existing page, the likelier it is that someone will create it. Regards SoWhy 19:11, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Messages about Editing that I did not do[edit]

I got a message that said my IP address was used to update pages, should I be concerned? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:42, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

If you have a nonstatic/floating IP, you shouldn't be concerned as who the IP is assigned to can change. If you have a static IP, you should only be concerned if someone is using your computer or network without your knowledge or permission(are you sure a family member or authorized friend did not edit Wikipedia?) 331dot (talk) 19:44, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
If you create a user account, then when you log in you'll only get messages targeted to you. I'm not aware of any crackdowns in editing at the University of St. Thomas that would necessitate the privacy of an anonymous IP address. TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 19:52, 23 April 2019 (UTC)


So what do you mean Hi Rosey sanchez! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia. Be our guest at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a friendly space where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Wikipedia and get help from experienced editors like Masumrezarock100 (talk). Visit the Teahouse

We hope to see you there! Delivered by HostBot on behalf of the Teahouse hosts 21:30, 23 April 2019 (UTC) form Rosey Sanchez. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rosey sanchez (talkcontribs)

Hello, Rosey sanchez. The message you received on your talk page was an automated one, sent to very new editors who have just joined Wikipedia. We like them to know that if they get stuck, or need help with editing the encyclopaedia, that we have a group of volunteers here who can assist them. We call it the 'Teahouse', and we like to make it as supportive and friendly as we can. So, welcome!
We ask everyone to sign their posts by typing four keyboard tilde characters (like this: ~~~~). By doing so, the system automatically adds their username and a timestamp to their post. That way, we know who has written each message, and when, so that we can reply to them as best we can.
I should point out that we expect users not to create content or write short essays on their main userpage, as you have done. Please use that page just for saying a few words about yourself and your editing interests. See WP:USERPAGE for more help on that. Your talk page is for messages between editors, whilst your sandbox is one of the places to work on creating new content before it gets moved into the main part of the encyclopaedia. To learn more, why not try out interactive tour called The Wikipedia Adventure. I'll drop by your talk page in a moment a leave another welcome message for you, stuffed full of other useful links to get you started. Just pop back here if you need to know anything else about contributing to this encyclopaedia. Regards from the UK, Nick Moyes (talk) 22:01, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Waddle On[edit]

So.. I was trying to create a page for Club Penguin Rewritten, a Club Penguin Private Server created in favour of Club Penguin's closing, yadda, yadda, yadda.

Since it was a redirect to Club Penguin, I removed that and started to work on a page of its own.

So I was creating the page and everything was going smoothly, I put in an MMO stub so hopefully other people could contribute to my minute's worth of info. So then I wait for a few hours.

Hours passed, so I check in, go to my watchlist (the page was on it) and someone had edited it, I was thrilled, thinking that they contributed to the page. So I clicked on it, only to see, they removed everything and put back the redirect.

My question is, how do I edit a page, and make sure people don't re-direct it or delete it. It's a question I need answered. ;-;

Thanks. (^o^)

TheAnonymousWikedian (talk) 22:42, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

@TheAnonymousWikedian: Welcome to the Teahouse. What you had written (before it was redirected) was this short uncited page. If you can demonstrate that a completely new article is merited (and you would do that by finding reliable independent sources that show this particular version meets our Wikipedia:Notability (video games) criteria, then the best way for you to proceed is via Articles for Creation. You would work on creating a draft and submitting it for review which, if approved (and I'm afraid I suspect it would not), then the finished draft would be put in place of the current redirect. My view is that you would be far better expanding the section within Club Penguin, and that a separate article is not necessary. I'm sorry this probably isn't what you really want to hear. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 23:06, 23 April 2019 (UTC)
@TheAnonymousWikedian: Club Penguin (franchise) might be an even better place to add the info - seems a bit disjointed now. Maybe even a Club Penguin (disambiguation) page for ease of navigation and simplicity? TimTempleton (talk) (cont) 00:28, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

First Edits Reverted[edit]

I made my first real edits on Wikipedia to the Captain Rex article but they got reverted within minutes. It doesn't seem that I'm a very good editor. Can I expect this with most edits I make? LonelyHorse9 (talk) 01:52, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Learning curve. David notMD (talk) 02:36, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
Hello LonelyHorse9 and welcome to the Teahouse. Having your edits reverted occasionally is part of the normal process, but I am sorry that happened on your very first edit. If you click on the "View History" tab at Captain Rex, you can see the explanation for why it was reverted. Most were straightforward; the trickiest one is the need to arrange suitable copyright release before a picture can be included - that catches everybody because most of the internet pays so little attention to copyright issues. You obviously have the right attitude and I encourage you to continue editing at Wikipedia. I see that you have already started on the Wikipedia Adventure, which is a great start. I have also put some links on your User Talk page with some links that might be helpful. --Gronk Oz (talk) 03:07, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
@LonelyHorse9: Sorry I'm a bit late to the discussion, but I just wanted to let you know that your first edits being reverted doesn't mean you're not a good editor- my first edits were reverted back in 2015, and now I'm certainly not an admin or anything, but at least I'm still here! As Gronk Oz said, you have a great attitude about contributing, and I wish you the best of luck in your Wikipedia journey. -A lainsane (Channel 2) 16:49, 24 April 2019 (UTC)


Do all websites that use the MediaWiki engine "look like a Wikipedia?" (talk) 02:12, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Yes at least the layout(css) is not different. So the websites might look pretty similar. Sincerely, Masum Reza 08:33, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
Well, if they use the Vector skin (or to a certain extent Monobook). Some wikis, like this might be a wiki, use MediaWiki but with a custom skin that does not resemble Wikipedia. Eman235/talk 13:41, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
Apart from different skins you can figure out different MediaWiki features on Special:Version. – (talk) 02:06, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

En Wikipedia blocked in PRC[edit]

Need confirmation and possibly only temporary, but it might be of interest that English Wikipedia is now inaccessible in the people’s republic of China without the use of a vpn. Articles which mention censorship might eventually need editing, but am leaving the notice more as a piece of info for anyone planning to travel here. China based Wikipedians who need to use vpns are going to be accessing via webhosts and may need permissions for IP block exemption etc. Edaham (talk) 05:36, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Well I don't know about that. I am pinging a Chinese editor I know. @Unnamelessness: Hey is this true? Sincerely, Masum Reza 08:37, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
occasionally these things happen from region to region, so it’s possible it’s just where I am. Edaham (talk) 11:06, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
Unfortunately, yes. Em... Since yesterday. (Mar. 23rd) Maybe it is temporary, but I'll be honest, it's BS. -- Unnamelessness 13:17, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

How to publish a page[edit]

Hi, I have created a page in my Sandbox and would like to publish it. How can I do this?

Gabby 12:26, 24 April 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vedlagt (talkcontribs)

Hello, Gabby. I see you have now submitted your sandbox for review, so you just need to be patient. In the meantime, you can improve your draft: it will make it easier for the reviewer if you format your citations rather than giving bare links: see referencing for beginners. And in my view it could do with an introductory sentence saying who he was. (Starting in with "XXX played a prominent role" seems to land the reader in the middle of a story). --ColinFine (talk) 14:36, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Next To band[edit]

We have a band I'm srilanka call NEXT TO. So, how I add details when fans search it, they can get details — Preceding unsigned comment added by Praby shaky (talkcontribs) 14:46, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Unfortunately, Praby shaky, Wikipedia is not a soapbox or a means of promotion. Please advertise your band elsewhere. JTP (talkcontribs) 14:55, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

New articles[edit]

How do I make my article officially available? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:24, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

What article are you referring to? Did you create a draft? Eman235/talk 17:30, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
You might find Your First Article gives you the information you need. Nick Moyes (talk) 17:42, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Page image limit?[edit]

Hello. I am currently working on a page titled List of Kentucky supplemental roads and rural secondary highways (500-999). I have recently discovered a unique problem. After an entry for Kentucky Route 617, all images for further entries in the Template:Infobox road small are missing. Does Wikipedia have a limit on how many images/files can be on a single page? Matthewshill (talk) 18:15, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Matthewshill welcome to the Teahouse. You have found an interesting problem, it seems. I wasn't aware of an image loading limit, but it appears there is one. I have tested your page by previewing it with upper sections cut out, and found that the lower ones after section 617, which previously weren't displaying road numbers, now do so. The pragmatic solution would be to split up this now huge (179,500 byte) article into two, and simply carry on working on them. But to find out the actual cause and any image limits, you could ask at WP:VPT, which can probably answer the much more technical questions that we cannot here. Sorry I can't help you further. Nick Moyes (talk) 20:11, 24 April 2019 (UTC)
The inclusion limit for expensive parser functions was exceeded:
NewPP limit report 
Parsed by mw1321
Cached time: 20190424201319
Cache expiry: 2592000
Dynamic content: false
CPU time usage: 7.224 seconds
Real time usage: 7.701 seconds
Preprocessor visited node count: 181435/1000000
Preprocessor generated node count: 0/1500000
Post‐expand include size: 1110577/2097152 bytes
Template argument size: 59622/2097152 bytes
Highest expansion depth: 17/40
Expensive parser function count: 548/500
Unstrip recursion depth: 1/20
Unstrip post‐expand size: 214630/5000000 bytes
Number of Wikibase entities loaded: 0/400
Lua time usage: 3.380/10.000 seconds
Lua memory usage: 8.71 MB/50 MB

. {{Infobox road small}} uses #ifexist calls, which are expansive. Ruslik_Zero 20:19, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

@Matthewshill: If you turn on "Show Hidden Catagories", you will see that the page has some errors: Hidden categories: Category:Jct template errors and Category:Infobox road transclusions without route marker and Category:Pages with too many expensive parser function calls. Breaking the page up into smaller sections as suggested above may solve the last one, not sure about the other errors. RudolfRed (talk) 20:40, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

I want to contribute to the this article Mike Noriega[edit]

Hello, M21212121. Welcome to the Teahouse. I'm afraid I have removed the old article which you pasted in with your question as it was not appropriate for a number of reasons. As you know, the page about Mike Noriega was deleted in 2014 as he (you?) was deemed not sufficiently notable to have a page here. See: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mike Noriega. Has something in his career changed significantly to now merit a page this time? If so, perhaps you could supply some sources to show this, as we can advise you. Meanwhile, since starting to reply to you I see you have been blocked for non-constructive editing, which is a shame. Nick Moyes (talk) 19:21, 24 April 2019 (UTC)


is it possibble to reactive Wikipedia:List of Wikipedians by number of recent edits and Wikipedia:List of Wikipedians by article count Fanoflionking

Cf. Wikipedia:Editcountitis.Face-tongue.svg84.46.52.26 (talk) 02:15, 25 April 2019 (UTC)


When a user is signed in is there a place where every article a user visited is recorded? Like a "browsing history" equivalent?

Adderallman (talk) 22:44, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Yes. It's called user contributions and there should be a link in your toolbar. If not you can access yours at Special:Contributions/Adderallman. Thanks for stopping by, Adderallman. John from Idegon (talk) 01:19, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
JFTR, Special:MyContributions covers my edits (excl. uploads, that's Special:MyUploads), and you can replace your name (or IP) by another name (or IP) to check edits + uploads by others. The logs are also interesting (thanks log, block log, changed user rights, patrol log, etc.), but AFAIK you cannot get your own or other views without any modification:
That would be a major privacy nightmare; even the thanks log got the required privacy warning after folks from the EU told the WMF where the hammer will fall. – (talk) 02:26, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
Actually, John from Idegon - the contributions log is only those pages where you do something to alter the page. I am not aware of anyway to see where an editor simply views a page.Onel5969 TT me 02:28, 25 April 2019 (UTC)
Yea, I misread that. Sorry. As 84 etc said above, I can't imagine Wikimedia software would record that. It pulls the page view so those can be counted but I cannot imagine it would have any identification data attached. John from Idegon (talk) 02:32, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Updating the title of a page[edit]


My group ( created a page titled "Mixed flowing gas" (quite some time ago). First, it applies to mixed flowing gas tests or testing. Second, most people refer to it, and we believe would first try to search for it, as "MFG." This is the common acronym. We have substantially expanded the page with what we believe is helpful further information. My dilemma: we retained most of the text from the "mixed flowing gas" page. If we were to create a new page titled "Mixed Flowing Gas (MFG) Tests" with the text on the current page, would it be considered plagerism? Or, is there some mechanism for updating the title of the current page? Thanks for your time and attention. Bob — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robertgutter (talkcontribs) 23:29, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Hello Robertgutter and welcome to the Teahouse. There are several issues to cover here. Firstly, I have added an entry for Mixed flowing gas at the disambiguation page MFG, so if somebody looks for "MFG" they can find it. Secondly, there is a serious issue with that article - it does not have any references at all. Every article, and every claim within each article, needs to be supported by cited sources. See Help:Referencing for beginners. Thirdly, you have several options depending on what will be most meaningful to the reader: you could just expand the existing article (this is the easiest, and the current article is quite short so IMhO this would be simplest), and if you want you could add a redirection from a different title. Alternatively, it is possible to rename an article (which changes the title) using the "Move" facility. That is restricted to more experienced editors, so drop me a note if you would like me to rename it for you (let me know precisely what you want the new title to be).--Gronk Oz (talk) 00:59, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

attempt to edit the "Newfoundland Wolf" page[edit]

I tried to add a simple, single sentence to the page. It was a factual and "to the point" statement, and I selected that it was a minor change. Afterwards I refreshed the page, and it didn't show up. I'm wondering how I can get this information added to the page and to stick? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smack07 (talkcontribs) 03:38, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Hi Smack07 and welcome to the Teahouse. Your edit was reverted because you didn't provide a WP:Reliable source. When you have found the source, just add your statement back again with the reference. Dbfirs 04:08, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

New multiwiki system[edit]

Hello, I would like to introduce a new initiative by Yurik at Multilingual Templates and Modules. The tech and non-tech people from this wikipedia are invited to share their views and facilitate its implementation here. Thanks Capankajsmilyo(Talk | Infobox assistance) 08:18, 25 April 2019 (UTC)



Thanks so much for your help!

Gabby 08:42, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Adding a service announce by twitter on twitter's page[edit]

Hi everyone, I just found news about Twitter where twitter informed to keep Indian Election unbiased by protecting its platform from misuse. So I want to add it in the Twitter's Wikipedia page under services and announcements. But the option to edit is not showing. What to do?

Thanks! --Prabhakarzx (talk) 11:44, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

how to publish article from sandbox to live[edit]

I have created article in wikipedia sandbox but i really dont know how to publish live. Please help — Preceding unsigned comment added by Preetsanghreri (talkcontribs) 11:50, 25 April 2019 (UTC)