Talk:Duke of Rothesay

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Untitled[edit]

This article has a conflict over whether the title goes to the heir apparent or to the first born son of the reigning monarch. One could be the heir to one's grandparent. Someone more knowledgable than I should fix this. -65.66.103.43 23:33, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Use of the title[edit]

I know that the eldest-living-sons-who-were-also-heir-apparent of the Monarch of Scotland were called Duke of Rothesay pre-Union of the Crowns.

I also know that Charles is currently styled DofR North of the Border.

What do any of us know (with sources if poss.) about the usage of the DofR title in-between?

Did James VI's son Henry Frederick cease to be known as DofR when his father became James I?

Apparently Albert Edward was known as DofR in a similar fashion to how Charles is, but do we have contemporary sources to this effect?

And what about the Hanoverian Dukes?

Many thanks etc DBD 23:01, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

  • Duke of Rothesay correctly reports Complete Peerage, with one exception; exactly the same limitation as Duke of Cornwall: eldest son of the Sovereign of Scotland only. Therefore all the Princes of Wales since 1603 except George III, who did not inherit it from his father. (The exception is the Old Pretender, who was not attainted until 1702; I will be amending.) Charles I was declared Prince of Wales and Duke of Cornwall, York and Albany; but "the now received opinion" holds that he was entitled to Rothesay too. Septentrionalis PMAnderson 15:38, 30 May 2008 (UTC)
    • I think what DBD was asking was not whether these men were Dukes of Rothesay (as you say, they were) but whether they used the title in Scotland as opposed to their higher titles of Prince of Wales and Duke of Cornwall. I'd be inclined to doubt it - how many Hanoverian Dukes of Rothesay even visited Scotland? Opera hat (talk) 11:47, 29 July 2008 (UTC)
I've no idea about whether Charles I or Charles II ever visited Scotland as Prince of Wales, but I don't think any of the Hanoverian ones ever did - George IV was certainly the first monarch to visit Scotland since Charles II left in 1651. john k (talk) 01:55, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

I noticed that the title Duke of Cornwall is (according to the article) re-established each time in the Peerage of England (rather than in the more recent Peerage of Gt. Britain or Peerage of the U.K.). This got me wondering whether the title Duke of Rothesay is re-established each time in the Peerage of Scotland, or not? Drdpw (talk) 20:35, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I don't think it's "re-established" (i.e. recreated). If I understand it correctly, both titles were created only once, in the Middle Ages, by charters that stipulated who would hold them. That means that the title now held by Charles is the exact same title as the one held by the future James IV, not a recreation. Surtsicna (talk) 20:54, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

arms[edit]

I'm surprised to see a plain label azure; haven't I seen it somewhere with a label checky azure and argent? Or was that someone else? —Tamfang (talk) 16:28, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

renfrew barony[edit]

I assume this is a feudal barony(being in Scotland), which suggests there is a barony attached. Is there any information on this? or is it in fact a UK barony, based on a Scottish parliamentary lordship? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.206.155.53 (talk) 03:38, 6 April 2011 (UTC)

Related move request[edit]

See Talk:Baron of Renfrew (ship)#Requested move for a move discussion that affects this page. -- JHunterJ (talk) 22:50, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Duke of Rothesay/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

Elizabeth 1 died in 1603 .She had no heir apparent but James VI of Scotland >The union of the crowns thus predates the treaty of Union by 104 years

Last edited at 22:56, 5 March 2008 (UTC). Substituted at 13:54, 29 April 2016 (UTC)