Talk:Occultism in Nazism

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Not a very informative article[edit]

This article is mainly about the historiography of Nazi occultism but doesn't actually discuss it. It hardly provides any actual details on things like Wewelsburg, the Anenherbe, the influence of folkisch mysticism on Nazi ideology, the Thule Society etc. Rather the article seems to be more interested in discrediting the idea that Hitler was a sorcerer with real magical powers or something, which is kind of silly given that its rather obvious that he didn't have magical powers. I mean, sure, Hitler didn't actually commune with the dark forces and the Nazi party wasn't secretly run by shadowy mystical cults but he and many other Nazis still believed in various occult ideas to varying degrees but this article doesn't mention any of that. 123.243.215.92 (talk) 14:30, 21 June 2014 (UTC)

There is also an article called Nazi Esotericism, perhaps a merge would help? 142.134.74.139 (talk) 15:38, 27 November 2016 (UTC)

attempt to improve[edit]

I tried to re-arrange the article and re-write it without deleting much of what anyone else had written. Doctor Goodrick-Clarke (rest his soul) has done the heavy lifting, but the trouble is to try and organize and integrate what he has written with everything else

I think the main problem is you are dealing with two completely different ideas.

Idea 1 is that The Occult controlled/were the Nazis.

Idea 2 is that occultist ideas trickled down to the Nazis.

This idea is a little tricky, i mean its really slippery to me. But you have to understand they are completely different. Not even in the same ball park together. But Goodrick-Clarke discusses both of them so its really confusing.

Another way to look at it is like this. Ask two questions.

1. Did the Nazis believe in Conspiracy Theories?

2. Were the Nazis a Conspiracy?

These are clearly two different questions, but it can be quite easy to get them mixed up with each other, considering all the unusual and bizarre terminology and jargon you have to dig through any time you want to try to study this area of history.

Decora (talk) 05:11, 30 September 2012 (UTC)

Crowley and Hitler[edit]

"Aleister Crowley

There are also unverifiable rumours that the occultist Aleister Crowley sought to contact Hitler during World War II. Despite several allegations and speculations to the contrary (e.g. Giorgio Galli) there is no evidence of such an encounter.[27] In 1991, John Symonds, one of Crowley's literary executors published a book: The Medusa's Head or Conversations between Aleister Crowley and Adolf Hitler, which has "definitely" to be understood as a literary fiction.[27] That the edition of this book was limited to 350 also contributed to the mystery surrounding the topic.[27] Mention of a contact between Crowley and Hitler—without any sources or evidence—is also made in a letter from René Guénon to Julius Evola dated October 29, 1949, which later reached a broader audience.[27]"

There is quite a lot of primary source material indicating that Crowley, while enthousiastic about Mussolini and fascism, was extremely hostile towards Hitler and nazism (which, as many people seem to forget, was quite distinct from Italian fascism), an attitude he shared with contemporaries including Winston Churchill. 82.176.204.198 (talk) 13:44, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Nazi Extermination Camp ”Ley Lines”[edit]

While theories about Nazis and Ley Lines are certainly within the purview of this article, the material being added here would need to be sourced to a WP:RS rather than the single website "one-evil.org", which appears to be alone in propagating these theories. Also the connection between Occult Ley Lines and an alleged Vatican-financed conspiracy to exterminate the Jews is off-topic WP:COATRACKing. - LuckyLouie (talk) 16:57, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

I agree with your revert for the reasons you have stated. The source cited is not RS and there are WP:FRINGE, WP:UNDUE weight and POV problems. I also agree that the subject of "Nazis and Ley Lines" may be a matter to mention in this article but it would have to be brought forth from well established WP:RS sources and presented/written from WP:NPOV. Kierzek (talk) 17:34, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

SS insignia and Black_Sun_(occult_symbol)#Nazi_and_Neo-Nazi_significance[edit]

There are documented assertions to be made that the SS in particular contained direct references to outright occultism. As this talk page referenced, many of these sources are reliable enough to be in other articles. This one in particular directly references the occultist interests of Heinrich Himmler.

The allegation that occultism ran deep in National Socialism is not a conspiracy theory. Though it is unknown how deep it permeates, there are unquestionably occultist references and symbols. At face value, isn't the swastika a spiritual icon in India? It means "peace", but still.


--99.104.188.245 (talk) 03:22, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

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External links modified[edit]

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