User talk:Certes

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FYI[edit]

Template talk:Fbu#Ambiguous links and redlinks. Narky Blert (talk) 07:00, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

"Portal:Prisons" listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

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An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Portal:Prisons. Since you had some involvement with the Portal:Prisons redirect, you might want to participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 10:32, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

New message from Northamerica1000[edit]

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Hello, Certes. You have new messages at Northamerica1000's talk page.
Message added 10:17, 7 August 2019 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

A bit more per your comment there. North America1000 10:17, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Moves by bot[edit]

Certes, I've forgotten the process for requesting bot help for moves, but could use some to fix the "List of Top 25..." articles to be consistly "List of top 25...". See list. Also some "List of Top 20 songs..." and "List of Top 100 songs..." There are over 100 with capped "Top" Can you help? And thanks much for your recent support at ANI. Dicklyon (talk) 14:49, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

@Dicklyon: I don't know whether there's a bot to do that but AWB can handle it. You could ask for help at WP:AutoWikiBrowser/Tasks. Mention that it needs an admin: AWB doesn't let other editors do bulk page moves, even if they could move those pages by hand. They'll probably ask for a link to a discussion finding consensus for the moves. Certes (talk) 15:13, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

Dab-needed tags in cite templates[edit]

Trappist the monk has form:

Yrs, Narky Blert (talk) 05:29, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Yes, a contested change seems to have caused performance issues. Certes (talk) 09:45, 7 September 2019 (UTC)

Portal Templates[edit]

Hi Certes, thanks for agreeing to have a look at my request for possible improvements to Portal templates/modules as I mentioned on Northamerica1000's talk page. Apologies for the delay in responding, but real life got in the way (as it tends to do), and also for the long post, but I want to explain it clearly. Thanks also for the enlightening link to ongoing discussions and collaborations between "Deletioneers" in the "Portal Deletion Squadron" (PDT - what's wrong with hurling back a pejorative term or two when they're launched at Portal defenders relentlessly and usually at random?). The PDT seems to consist of four primary operatives now, BHG, RMcL, NewsH and MarkS, all equally committed to the cause and zealously parroting the standard "party line", of rigorously quoting verbatim the POG sentences about broad topics, large numbers of readers and maintainers, and treating this like they are statements of imperatives: of absolute requirements, whilst conveniently ignoring the obvious ambiguity of the actual wording of "should be" and "likely to". I think I'll stop there or I'll get over-exasperated about the continual misrepresentations and false allegations by the squadron members. I'll probably post a separate set of observations about that issue in due course, or on some portal discussion, at the risk of being labelled a "Portalista", a fantasist, a mendacious dissembler, a purveyor of FUD, a defender of abandoned crud, a user lacking in comprehension skills, a user of Humpty Dumpty English, as only working on portal because they are fun, etc, etc, etc .... Grrr ....

I hope you're still open to having a look at the technical issue as I see it with the Portal Templates. If so, it might be informative to have a look at Portal: Scotland (P:SCO) as I've currently restructured it. Basically it always had a large number of Selected articles, Selected Pictures, Selected quotes etc which were developed or "maintained" over a number of years from approx 2007 - 2012. Then real life took over, as is the way, and upon returning to editing, I was horrified to find WP:ENDPORTALS was in full swing. Then TTH seemed to take up the largely dormant WP:PORT and came up with many interesting ideas, which seemed to have some merit. It was about that time that I first interacted with you ( and came to the observation that you are indeed a "template/Lua guru", despite your modesty). You were most helpful in resolving some of my technical queries. Anyway, long story short, TTH just went berserk with the automated tools and the rest is history. Mass MFD's and a subsequent drip feed of individual ones.

It seemed to me that several common themes, on technical issues, emerged from those discussions:

  • 2. The sheer number of sub-pages and long term maintenance implications;
  • 3. The frequent and numerous appearance of the dreaded "Lua script timeout" error, rendering the Portal in question virtually unusable;
  • 4. Inflexibility of the "purge" mechanism to refresh content. (a two step process every time);


At the time of completion of the two Mega-MFD's by BHG, it was obvious to me that P:SCO suffered from most (if not all) of the above problems. So I resolved to solve them, each in turn:

*1 was relatively easy to solve via use of the Portal Transclusion Templates;
*2. See Later, where the crux of my query lies ...
*3 At the time of starting to re-construct / re-vamp the Portal (approx Feb 2019, I think), I had approx 105 Selected articles, Over 80 Selected pictures, 95 Selected biographies ( I had added these in to ensure "broad" coverage of scope) and 107 Selected Quotes. There was also the addition of 23 panorama header images (rotating capability). for added scope. Needless to say it was a usability nightmare; Error Script central erupted and that was with me using a pretty fast PC with cache cleared between re-loads. Totally unusable for readers. The problem was solved by resorting to a tabbed layout and splitting content equally between tabs. Less than ideal, but workable enough.
*4 I decided to experiment with the random "slideshow mode" of presentation of individual sub-boxes (much the same as was developed for "random Slideshow"). This would obviate the need for a two stage "purge" process, which is very clunky and counter intuitive for new users, who Portals are supposed to cater for. The problem as I saw it was the need for flexibility (in a carefully considered, hand curated set of articles/ images etc). That seemed to be a major theme of the MFD's .The articles I was dealing with ranged from 1-2 line lede sections to pretty comprehensive discussions of the topic (eg Holyrood Palace and the Scottish Reformation and often, images that I felt could be improved upon. The usual method of invoking the template (with selected defined parameters), followed by a list of articles to apply those parameters to ensures that all articles in the list follow the selection of parameters. This results in a selection of unevenly sized article intro's and, often, less than optimal images.

I ended up using transcluded article content on many sub-pages (not ideal, but an improvement). The subpage transclusions specify the paragraph numbers and chosen image individually, to suit the selected article / biography. The wiki mark-up is much along the lines of:

     {{Transclude excerpts as random slideshow| paragraphs=| files=| more= 
        | Portal: Scotland/Selected articles/1  
        | Portal: Scotland/Selected articles/2   
        | Portal: Scotland/Selected articles/3
        ETC
        ETC
     }}

What would be useful in my view would be a situation where the relevant parameters can be applied individually to the articles in the list, rather than collectively. In other words picking up the parameters individually from the list of items e.g.: That way the transclusions are directly into the Portal thus eliminating the need for subpages, and each item in the portal-boxes can be equally balanced for size of content and image choice can be more appropriate, rather than a default article one. The wiki mark-up would be much along the lines of:

     {{Transclude excerpts as random slideshow| paragraphs=| files=| more= 
        | Scottish Reformation | paragraphs=1-2 | files= SomeNewImage.jpg| more=
        | Doune Castle | paragraphs=2-4 | files=1 |more=
        | Falkirk Wheel | paragraphs=1-3 | files= SomeOtherNewImage.jpg |more=
        ETC
        ETC
     }}

I'm not sure if any of this is possible, but it would be very flexible if it is. I hope that I've explained things clearly, but if not drop me a note and I'll try to clarify. Anything you can do would be greatly appreciated. --Cactus.man 00:04, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for all the hard work, Cactus.man. That's a very clear explanation of the remaining problems.
You've already found the best way to deal with both numerous subpages and vulnerable content forks. (Unfortunately, many portals fixed in that way were reverted on the grounds that they selected topics with the help of a template or category, and most such cases then sailed through MfD with the rationale that the ancient version the nominator just resurrected was junk.) We should avoid cases where someone has hand-crafted a summary that is better than the lead and is diligently maintaining it, but they are few in number and can probably go through the bold-revert-apologise process.
Lua timeouts occur on the Wikimedia server. Browsing on a better PC won't help. One solution involves creating a handful of subpages, as you've already done with Portal:Scotland/Tabs, etc. The subpages are normally generated along with the main page, giving no benefit. However, we can prepare a complex subpage in advance to contain only simply text which can be transcluded quickly. This development is in progress. See Wikipedia:Bot_requests/Archive_79#A_Bot_to_update_Portal's_In_the_news_section, which has applications beyond ITN.
You can add a one-click purge here (Appearance section; third item) but that's a per-user setting. {{Purge box}} appears to flash up a confirmation dialog which goes away without me clicking Yes (and presumably does the purge). If it does the same for you, rather than obeying some clever confirm=no option I set years ago and forgot about, then that could be a way forward.
And finally, on to the meat of your query. Originally we had just {{Transclude lead excerpt}} which displays one article and only needs one set of files=, paragraphs=, etc. Now that multi-article templates use the same module, I agree that one set of parameters may not fit all articles. It should be easy to implement in the module but the template syntax is tricky. I think the example above could be made to work but I don't know of an existing template which handles multiple parameters with identical names, distinguishing them by position, and that technique might well be frowned upon. We also need to distinguish between files= which should apply to all articles (current usage) and files= which should apply only to the last article. One answer is files1= etc. but that involves some counting if only the 37th article needs special treatment and is an accident waiting to happen when someone deletes article 13 without changing the numbers below. The best compromise I can think of is to use an escaped parameter separator within parameters:
     {{Transclude excerpts as random slideshow | paragraphs=1-5 | files=1 <!-- defaults apply where not overridden below -->
        | Scottish Reformation{{!}}paragraphs=1-2
        | Doune Castle{{!}}paragraphs=2-4{{!}}files=1
        | Falkirk Wheel{{!}}more=go round again
        | Edinburgh
        | Glasgow
     }}
A less conventional alternative is a single character that can't appear in article titles: one of # < > [ ] | { }. "#" is in use for transcluding a section, angles appear in more=<br> etc., "|" delimits the real parameter and "[" introduces an external link, so reluctantly we're left with "]":
        | Doune Castle]paragraphs=2-4]files=1
That's more concise but totally unintuitive. Better suggestions welcome.
By the way, files= only accepts numbers. Accepting filenames would be a separate enhancement.
Hope that helps, Certes (talk) 10:25, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the detailed reply Certes.
As usual, very helpful and informative. I'll start experimenting with your suggestions and hopefully can get a suitable outcome to eliminate the sub-pages I've just got some further questions / comments:
  • I already have the "one-click purge" set in my preferences, but it has no effect. I still have to manually click the purge button on the rsultant screen. I'm using Firefox and I suspect there's some conflict with one of my extensions, Can't be bothered to troubleshoot to find which one is the culprit (it's normally one that I'm not prepared to do without anyway!).
  • The use of the | escape character looks promising, and I agree that it's preferable to using ]. A quick test suggests to me that the pipe character needs to be included or the template just bypasses the desired listed file. I also seem to be unable to get the articles to accept the alternative escaped parameter. See User:Cactus.man/Sandbox/P-Sco where the following wikitext produces the non-desired results:
          {{Transclude excerpts as random slideshow| paragraphs=1-3| files=1| more=
              | Scottish Reformation|{{!}}paragraphs=1
              | Picts|{{!}}files=2
              | Edinburgh{{!}}paragraphs=1
              | Doune Castle
          }}
Scottish reformation still produces paragraphs 1-3, rather than just para 1.
Picts shows file1, rather than 2.
Edinburgh is bypassed completely due to the missing pipe character before the escape character.
Doune displays correctly per the default parameters set in line 1.
Am I making some horrendous schoolboy error, or have I misunderstood your suggestion?
  • Is it correct to assume that the template for file numbers traverses no further than the lede section?. If so, is it possible to search in further sections for images? As an aside, I've been having trouble to select any images at all. The parameter files=1should select the image in the infobox but doesn't. I seem to remember there was some discussion about this on the Wikiproject pages some time ago, but I can't recall the details or what the solution was. Any comments would be helpful.
All the best. --Cactus.man 19:14, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
@Cactus.man: The only mistake you're making is assuming that the Lua code already handles this new syntax, when at the moment it's just an incomplete proposal. Adding {{!}} now breaks things, because the module naively looks for an article called "Scottish Reformation|paragraphs=1", but it's the right syntax and should work later. I'm working on the changes in the sandbox but they're not ready to test yet.
Yes, the template for file numbers traverses no further than the lede section (or whatever section is specified with the Article#Section syntax). Originally the module only supported {{Transclude lead excerpt}}, which does exactly what it says. With some work we could look further for files. For the many pages that currently use a blanket |files=1 and often show no file, that would make new images appear, which may or may not be helpful. Certes (talk) 19:32, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for that, I suspected it would be some sort of cock up on my part. I'll leave you to work on it in peace. Cheers --Cactus.man 19:54, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
@Cactus.man: It's hard to test this change with the slideshow templates, because their /sandbox versions invoke the sandbox version of another module but the original version of the module I'm working on. If you want to look at what I've done so far, you can use the "Transclude ... excerpt/sandbox" templates, e.g.
	{{Transclude selected excerpt/sandbox| paragraphs=1-3| files=1| more=Click here| selected=2
	| 1=Scottish Reformation{{!}}paragraphs=1
	| 2=Picts{{!}}files=2
	| 3=Edinburgh{{!}}paragraphs=1{{!}}more=
	| 4=Doune Castle{{!}}more=Mair...
	}}
in which |selected=2 picks the Picts because it's the second article. The other articles will be ignored unless you change that number.
I've found one limitation of the syntax. |more= resets the "click here for more" text to the default of "Read more...". There's no way to make it disappear only for this article. We can probably live with that. Certes (talk) 20:08, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
The parameter overriding seems to work well - bravo! Hopefully, transferring it to the slideshow version template will be a straightforward exercise. The |more= limitation that you mention won't be an issue for me, I always have it set to the default "Read more" anyway. Keep up the good work :) --Cactus.man 22:03, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
@Cactus.man: I've released the changes. There's one more gotcha: I used |1= etc. in my example above, because I got no output with unnamed parameters. I realised what I was doing wrong: the = in the page option was making them into named parameters, e.g. a parameter called "Scottish Reformation|paragraphs" with value 1. Unnamed parameters do work but you'll need to escape the = signs:
	{{Transclude selected excerpt/sandbox| paragraphs=1-3| files=1| more=Click here| selected=2
	 | Scottish Reformation{{!}}paragraphs{{=}}1
	 | Picts{{!}}files{{=}}2
	 | Edinburgh{{!}}paragraphs{{=}}1{{!}}more{{=}}
	 | Doune Castle{{!}}more{{=}}Mair...
	}}
I've documented the changes in Template:Transclude lead excerpt/doc#Page options etc. but I haven't changed the slideshow documentation: that's another layer that other editors have added on top of the underlying code that I wrote. I hope that does at least some of what you need and will be useful for others. Certes (talk) 11:44, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
@Certes: Thanks so much for doing all this. I think I've got the gist of what needs to be done now - off to experiment. At least I'll be able to transclude articles/ biographies directly into the portal now, maintaining a balanced size of text excerpts and removing the need for sub-pages. I can live with the occasional less than ideal (IMHO) image, so I'll start converting the body of the portal shortly. Hopefully that's even less ammunition for the deletioneers to pounce upon.
As an aside, and not wishing to burden you further, if you have any ideas about how to pass in a named image parameter as opposed to a number, that would be superb. I wont even bother you with my half-baked ideas (all based on a primitive and cringeworthy, rudimentary understanding of programming). Thanks again for all your hard work on this. --Cactus.man 12:30, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
@Cactus.man: I've now added support for a named image parameter. Because a list would be difficult to parse (image names can contain commas, etc.) you can only have one named image file, but it's compatible with the previous enhancement so you can vary it per article with Article{{!}}files{{=}}Myimage.jpg. I'll add that to the documentation. Certes (talk) 13:31, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
Thanks Certes, impressively quick work :) Will give it a go. --Cactus.man 16:09, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
@Certes: A quick query: using a custom image works brilliantly, and it places it inside a thumbnail "box" as expected, but there's no caption. Is there any way to add a bespoke caption for custom images too? Thanks. --Cactus.man 19:19, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
@Cactus.man: Yes, though the coding gets a bit intricate. See this demo. Certes (talk) 19:48, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

───────────────────────── @Certes:, I've been working through the alternative markup you developed for customising the random slideshow templates for selecting paragraph numbers, custom images and image captions, and things appear to be working pretty well. The only issue I have found is in trying to incorporate internal wikilinks in the custom captions. I've been following the 'Two Banana' flavour for the coding using the caption text as the value of the fileargs parameter. The following code works fine:

    {{Transclude excerpts as random slideshow| paragraphs=1-3| files=1| more=
        | Dundee{{!}}files{{=}}The Dundee Law - geograph.org.uk - 63200 (lighter ground).jpg{{!}}fileargs{{=}}The Dundee Law
    }}

But, when I try introducing a wikilink for "Dundee Law" using square brackets, it breaks with an error : Lua error: Unmatched close-bracket at pattern character 22.

Per the code below:

    {{Transclude excerpts as random slideshow| paragraphs=1-3| files=1| more=
        | Dundee{{!}}files{{=}}The Dundee Law - geograph.org.uk - 63200 (lighter ground).jpg{{!}}fileargs{{=}}The [[Dundee Law]]
    }}

Wikilinks in excerpt captions[edit]

Do the square brackets for the link need to be escaped in some way, or is there a simple fix for this? Or have I made another embarrassing Schoolboy error? Any help in these troubled times would be appreciated. I hope you can devote some attention to this, I know it's disheartening when you get continually bad-mouthed as I see has happened again in your case at the recent Proposal_to_delete_Portal_space. Keep up the good work, some of us do appreciate it. --Cactus.man 12:01, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for your support. To be honest I only really read the first insult from each editor; I think further attacks say more about them than about me.
[[article]] and [[article|text]] get interpreted before reaching the caption. Like the pipe, they need to be escaped twice: {{((}}!(({{))}}article{{((}}!)){{))}} and {{((}}!(({{))}}article{{((}}!{{))}}text{{((}}!)){{))}}. See {{!((}} for the templates involved. I wonder if we should produce simpler templates for these: something like {{escaped link|article|text}}. Example written out in full:
A banana of the Musa genus

An apple is a sweet, edible fruit produced by an apple tree (Malus domestica). Apple trees are cultivated worldwide and are the most widely grown species in the genus Malus. The tree originated in Central Asia, where its wild ancestor, Malus sieversii, is still found today. Apples have been grown for thousands of years in Asia and Europe and were brought to North America by European colonists. Apples have religious and mythological significance in many cultures, including Norse, Greek and European Christian traditions.

@Certes: WOW! Great stuff, but yes, the coding is becoming very complex. Once I've got my head around the complexity and am comfortable using it, I'll start to introduce it.The only lurking problem I can foresee is that it's in danger of becoming a new rationale for deletion: (Delete overly complex code, likely to discourage possible maintainers from volunteering, leading to future maintenance problems and early abandonment. Yet further evidence that the Portalista's treat Portals as a personal play ground, likely to ultimately lead to another sea of abandoned, crud). God knows, it's likely to make it's way "magically" into WP:POG as a requirement that code should be simple vanilla wiki markup! So I think your suggestion of producing a simpler template is a sound idea. --Cactus.man 21:43, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
@Cactus.man: Good points. I've just knocked together {{Doubly escaped wikilink}}, which simplifies the above example to (edit to see source):
A banana of the Musa genus

An apple is a sweet, edible fruit produced by an apple tree (Malus domestica). Apple trees are cultivated worldwide and are the most widely grown species in the genus Malus. The tree originated in Central Asia, where its wild ancestor, Malus sieversii, is still found today. Apples have been grown for thousands of years in Asia and Europe and were brought to North America by European colonists. Apples have religious and mythological significance in many cultures, including Norse, Greek and European Christian traditions.

Certes (talk) 22:17, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

@Certes: Thanks for this, makes life a lot simpler I think.
Just FYI I amended the template to include a missing parameter 2 of "Yellow fruit" in the example given in Template:Doubly_escaped_wikilink/doc. I think I've understood correctly and the example should read:
{{Doubly escaped wikilink|Banana|Yellow fruit}} → {{!((}}Banana{{!}}Yellow fruit{{!))}} ([[Banana|Yellow fruit]])
Perhaps you should cast an eye over it to make sure It's correct. Thanks --Cactus.man 22:59, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

ImageMaps / use of html <map>[edit]

Hey Certes, do you have any experience with mw:Extension:ImageMap (or the technology behind it)? I want to create an image that takes up 100% available width (like this pic in my sandbox) and uses a coordinate map for links on areas of the image. The extension itself appears to only support fixed pixel values for dimensions.

From what I can see, the extension just creates a regular old image and an associated html map. The <map> tag is blocked in regular source editing though. Is the Template/Module space more lenient with the html tags you are allowed to use? The closest thing I found was Module:Chart#Basic, but sadly it seems to use <a> html links for its clickable bar charts, not a map. --Hecato (talk) 09:39, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

@Hecato: Sorry, I've never used imagemaps and you've already found all the help pages I know about. I would guess that templates and modules are at least as strict as article space, because otherwise they would be an obvious back door to doing what they're trying to prevent us from doing. Certes (talk) 10:09, 16 September 2019 (UTC)
Ah, what a pity. Thanks for your time though. --Hecato (talk) 10:12, 16 September 2019 (UTC)

Misdirected links[edit]

Two more possible entries for your list: Esplanade / Esplanade, Kolkata and Salt Lake City / Salt Lake City, Kolkata. Narky Blert (talk) 12:19, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

@Narky Blert: Thanks. I fixed those last year (Esplanade appeared mainly in bus timetables of doubtful relevance) but more will have appeared. I'll add them to a new section on places (Norfolk, Reading, etc.) and should probably cover other themes such as sports team nicknames (Ospreys, Wolves, etc.). Certes (talk) 12:29, 25 September 2019 (UTC)
Also Tigers / Tigers (sports teams), for one. Narky Blert (talk) 12:36, 25 September 2019 (UTC)

A barnstar for you![edit]

Brilliant Idea Barnstar Hires.png The Brilliant Idea Barnstar
For your diligent work on births and deaths by decade, and on year articles and templates in general. — JFG talk 13:37, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

Temporary highways[edit]

I saw your name on WT:USRD so I thought I'd ask since no one ever seems to respond to my posts:

The article List of temporary Interstate Highways has been unsourced since creation in 2005 and hasn't gotten an iota of TLC. Some of these are so short-lived that they probably didn't even appear on any maps. What should be done with this list? Does anyone want to clean it up? Should it be deleted? Ten Pound Hammer(What did I screw up now?) 00:05, 13 October 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Portal:Dance/Selected biography[edit]

I've reverted my request... basically there was a Draft article in there which hit G13 eligible, so it appeared on Category:G13 eligible AfC submissions... I though it was the whole page... nope, just one of the suggestions. Thanks for the comment anyway -- - RichT|C|E-Mail 15:07, 13 October 2019 (UTC) (Helps If I log in...)

Your Deleted Contributions, Portal Space (1 May 2019)[edit]

Hi Certes, just noticed your request on NA1k's Talkpage re the above. I don't know if you've managed to get the info you seek or not, but this may be of some use to you:

(change visibility) 19:08, 1 May 2019 (diff | deletion log | view) . . Portal:Brighton (Improve DYK/news items)
(change visibility) 19:04, 1 May 2019 (diff | deletion log | view) . . Portal:Anabaptism (More DYK and ITNs (in theory)
(change visibility) 18:19, 1 May 2019 (diff | deletion log | view) . . Portal:Astrology (I predict DYK rising, in conjunction with more ITN)
(change visibility) 17:12, 1 May 2019 (diff | deletion log | view) . . Portal:Channel Islands (More DYK and ITNs)
(change visibility) 17:02, 1 May 2019 (diff | deletion log | view) . . Portal:Java (programming language) (More DYK and ITNs)
(change visibility) 16:58, 1 May 2019 (diff | deletion log | view) . . Portal:Grenada (More DYK and ITNs)
(change visibility) 16:56, 1 May 2019 (diff | deletion log | view) . . Portal:Seventh-day Adventist Church (More DYK and ITNs)
(change visibility) 16:55, 1 May 2019 (diff | deletion log | view) . . Portal:Typography (More DYK and ITNs)
(change visibility) 16:18, 1 May 2019 (diff | deletion log | view) . . Portal:Culture (Improve DYK/news items)
(change visibility) 15:55, 1 May 2019 (diff | deletion log | view) . . Portal:Territories of the United States (More DYK and ITNs)
(change visibility) 15:34, 1 May 2019 (diff | deletion log | view) . . Portal:Austin (Refine DYK/news)
(change visibility) 15:27, 1 May 2019 (diff | deletion log | view) . . Portal:Baptists (More DYK and ITNs)
(change visibility) 15:21, 1 May 2019 (diff | deletion log | view) . . Portal:University of Cambridge (More DYK and ITNs)
(change visibility) 14:58, 1 May 2019 (diff | deletion log | view) . . Portal:Mars (Improve DYK/news items)
(change visibility) 14:51, 1 May 2019 (diff | deletion log | view) . . Portal:Cleveland (Improve DYK/news items)
(change visibility) 14:33, 1 May 2019 (diff | deletion log | view) . . Portal:Handball (More DYK and ITNs (avoiding the association football foul))
(change visibility) 14:31, 1 May 2019 (diff | deletion log | view) . . Portal:Ivory Coast (More DYK and ITNs)

All the best --Cactus.man 13:02, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, Cactus.man. My memory isn't failing me. In the MfDs for Typography, Culture, Austin and Cleveland, the proposer was kind enough to mention that the portal had recently been reverted to an old version. In one case an editor even reverted a portal to a version that was so bad they sent it to MfD the same day. It might be interesting to seek a consensus as to whether this is a good way to go about deleting portals. Certes (talk) 14:40, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

New message from Northamerica1000[edit]

Nuvola apps edu languages.svg
Hello, Certes. You have new messages at Portal talk:Australia.
Message added 05:48, 17 October 2019 (UTC). You can remove this notice at any time by removing the {{Talkback}} or {{Tb}} template.

Not sure if you like these TB templates or not, but a pressing question has been asked at this discussion regarding the possibility of modifying Template:Transclude random excerpt to address "black box" concerns about portals. So, hopefully you can provide some information at the discussion, which would be utmostly appreciated. North America1000 05:48, 17 October 2019 (UTC)

  • I sent you an email a few minutes ago. Feel free to reply to that via email if you'd like. Thanks for your work to improve Wikipedia. North America1000 09:34, 18 October 2019 (UTC)

Transclude all pages that could be randomly transcluded?[edit]

Hi Certes, recently Northamerica1000 added an automatic "Selected Cusine" section (using {{Transclude random excerpt}}) to Portal:Germany, which is pretty nice. However, being the control freak that I am, I would like to be able to see at a glance whether any of the transcluded pages causes any issues, so I created Portal:Germany/Selected cuisine. If you look at that page's source code, you'll see it is hopelessly inefficient, hand-written, and maintenance intensive. Do you think there could/should be an automated way of doing what I am trying to do there? Ideally I think a switch in {{Transclude random excerpt}} that could be turned on and off depending on whether the page is transcluded or not could make this super easy to use. Are you the right person to ask these questions? —Kusma (t·c) 11:58, 19 October 2019 (UTC)

@Kusma: I've mocked up a new |showall= parameter in Module:Excerpt/sandbox. You can see the effect on this test page. (There is also a test for an unrelated |list= parameter in there, which can be ignored.) If we implement that, the main page could transclude a subpage which uses the template with <noinclude>|showall=</noinclude>. That should show all articles on the subpage but only a selected one on the main page. Is that what you meant? Certes (talk) 09:12, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
Yes, that is the kind of thing I am looking for, thank you very much :) With too large images, there are some layout issues (see bottom of Portal:Germany/Selected cuisine), but I guess how to get the images to be a decent size is a different problem. Is there a way to give each transcluded article fragment its own (sub)section? —Kusma (t·c) 09:40, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
I've moved {{Clear}} to before {{Hr}}, which works better for reasons I don't understand. Perhaps that should become the default separator added by the module. Certes (talk) 10:34, 20 October 2019 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. Let me know when the change is ready to leave the sandbox. Thank you very much, —Kusma (t·c) 12:56, 20 October 2019 (UTC)