User talk:KIENGIR

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Welcome![edit]

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Welcome to Wikipedia, KIENGIR! Thank you for your contributions. I am Marek69 and have been editing Wikipedia for quite some time, so if you have any questions feel free to leave me a message on my talk page. You can also check out Wikipedia:Questions or type {{helpme}} at the bottom of this page. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

Also, when you post on talk pages you should sign your name using four tildes (~~~~); that will automatically produce your username and the date. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian!

Marek.69 talk 22:14, 19 September 2011 (UTC)

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ANI Board[edit]

Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Adrian (talk) 10:19, 15 November 2011 (UTC)

Suggestion[edit]

Telling everyone in a thread on ANI that you would respond to a block by creating a new account is basically asking to be indefinitely blocked, repeatedly. This is a very unwise choice of words, especially on a noticeboard which is heavily patrolled by administrators. --Blackmane (talk) 01:14, 16 November 2011 (UTC)

Dear Blackmane, I have nothing to be afraid of! I have made a reaction to this post as well in the ANI board. There you will understand why I made this kind of ironical statement.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:15, 16 November 2011 (UTC))

Mihai Viteazul[edit]

KIENGIR, I've been following the Mihai Viteazul discussion with close attention and have noticed that while some progress has been made, agreement on certain matters still seems distant. I think some of the problems might stem from a simple misunderstanding; it's perfectly possible to talk of a "union" in the sense of a "personal union," that is to say distinct territories, with their own political systems and particularities, all falling under the personal rule of a single person. Obviously, Mihai's control over Wallachia, Moldavia, and Transylvania didn't result in all three principalities literally becoming one state. Even the most enthusiastic Romanian nationalist historians find themselves compelled to admit that, and I don't think anyone here is suggesting otherwise. Would you be more comfortable with the article if we specified that Mihai's control over the three principalities was a "personal" union that did not imply all three principalities "uniting" into one unitary state? Hubacelgrand (talk) 04:50, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

Hi, will answer on your talk page(KIENGIR (talk) 00:47, 22 November 2011 (UTC))
Hello - I've left a response on my talk page. Cheers. Hubacelgrand (talk) 14:26, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Hungarian language[edit]

Hello,

I have started a discussion on the talk page about recent edits. If you wish, please participate in the discussion and in the meanwhile don`t change the established and referenced part of the article. Greetings.Adrian (talk) 22:32, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Thank you for your answer. Please continue this discussion at the talk page of the article. I have not caused a conflict last time[1] neither it is in my interest to do this now. You must understand that wikipedia works according to some policies which every wikipedian should respect. I have seen your message on my talk page and I think that this reasoning is wrong. Let`s talk as (for an example) Chilean people (me) and Scottish people (you). Please try to talk outside of who is who and focus on the data. I am not here to "help" my nation nor do I believe you are too. I think that is the best way to achieve neutrality. Greetings. Adrian (talk) 12:11, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

I am always ready to talk about any article. For Eric Bicfalvi article there is a respectable source ( Gazeta Sporturilor ) that writes a section about his origin where they state he is of Swedish origin. On the other hand we have a source claiming to be of Hungarian origin. Please check other similar articles, you will notice that this is a standard usage in cases like this. If you wish, please check this case with other users to get their opinion too. When there is a dispute among sources, to preserve neutrality wikipedians usually use the "According to xxx, according to yyy" phrase. Greetings. Adrian (talk) 23:26, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

I have made a change at the Eric Bicfalvi article, I made the information about the Hungarian origin as primary. You must understand that if you have a source that the Lima is located in Scotland we will add that data to the article, it doesn`t matter if it is true or not. Unless it is some unknown source mambo-jumbo. Newspapers are taken as a pretty serious source. I don`t know what is your experience regarding wikipedia but you must understand that verifiability is everything. WP:SOURCE - Even if you're sure something is true, it must be verifiable before you can add it. Please read this policy. If you have any doubt in this, please fell free to contact any other user to consult. For an example, if you have a reliable source that Victor Ponta is Zimbabwean this info would be included in the article. In what form that remains to be seen, but in would be included surely in the form "According to Criss Rain, Victor Ponta is of Zimbabwean origin". This is how wikipedia works when it comes to adding data. I hope I managed to explain this. Adrian (talk) 23:05, 11 October 2012 (UTC)

G'day[edit]

G'day KIENGIR. I suggest you self-revert per Talk:Hungarian occupation of Bačka and Baranja. I will not revert you, but you are sailing too close to the wind and will end up getting done yourself for editwarring. Regards, Peacemaker67 (send... over) 00:27, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

I have answered on the page. My argumentation is professional and can be understood by any historical expert or English speaker, or just even ordinary people. I have demonstrated all points a will make no further edits after any discussion. It is long, some things cannot be explained very shortly, because the trollers then try to find 1000 ways of arguments and false premises, that's why it is better to see almost all colletaral things leading to the conclusion. Regards.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:41, 21 November 2012 (UTC))

SPI[edit]

You are suspected of sock puppetry, which means that someone suspects you of using multiple Wikipedia accounts for prohibited purposes. Please make yourself familiar with the notes for the suspect, then respond to the evidence at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Thehoboclown. Thank you. Stickee (talk) 03:02, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

Hi, I am surprised and hurt, I asnwered, no evidence was presented by FromOradea, unfortunately only a manifestation of a frustrated and fantastic mind, but see the deatils there, I also will answer on your and his personal page also. It is so pity some people instead of being interested in a professional encylopedia, they make weird accusations. Yours (KIENGIR (talk) 23:19, 16 December 2014 (UTC))
I just noticed the accuser (FromOradea) was banned for sock-puppetry :) What a change of screenplay...well, Thank You for all for the objective arbitration (KIENGIR (talk) 23:25, 16 December 2014 (UTC))

Tesla's citizenship discussion[edit]

I invite you to participate in the discussion. I opened a RfC and presented some sources. I also have one request, since, you and me agreed upon your edit on 10th of May that Tesla's citizenship from 1867 until 1892 should be stated as Austrian. Since then I investigated some sources and I find that to be false (you can see the sources on talk page). I tried to revert your edit and start a discussion so a consensus can be established, but people keep reverting me with the explanation that I haven't established a consensus to revert you, where in fact I participated in the consensus that introduced that edit. That is completely unreasonable since in that logic I can make an ridiculous edit (for instance that the Earth is flat) and revert everyone with the explanation that no consensus is established to revert my edit. The motive to revert your edit is to force a consensus be established on the presented sources. I'm afraid that a lot of people will oppose and that the conclusion will be that there is no consensus to change the present formulation. I found myself in the similar situation when I tried to edit Tesla's birthplace. I presented several dozen sources of which a great majority supported my side, however a lot of people "voted" for no change, so the present formulation remained although the majority of the sources are against it. There is a chance that this happens now, and that would be irrational since the present formulation is not sourced. In my opinion the best thing is to revert your edit and establish the consensus upon presented sources. I hope to hear from you soon on that matter. Best regards. Asdisis (talk) 14:29, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Alert[edit]

Commons-emblem-notice.svg This message contains important information about an administrative situation on Wikipedia. It does not imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.

Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding the Balkans, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

- MrX 14:31, 5 June 2015 (UTC)

Disruptive editor[edit]

Hello KIENGIR ,I'm responding to this comment of yours. That user has been disruptive for a long time now. He made a report against me, and I would appreciate if you could share this opinion here. You can see that I had done some investigation and it turns out that this user is a puppet of another user that demonstrated the very same behavior. Detoner (talk) 15:38, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Thanks for the support, it's interesting how users that find the Croatia in the union with Hungary article or similar ones contentious are never from Hungary. Tzowu (talk) 16:38, 4 July 2015 (UTC)

Austrian Empire[edit]

It appears that you have been canvassing—leaving messages on a biased choice of users' talk pages to notify them of an ongoing community decision, debate, or vote. While friendly notices are allowed, they should be limited and nonpartisan in distribution and should reflect a neutral point of view. Please do not post notices which are indiscriminately cross-posted, which espouse a certain point of view or side of a debate, or which are selectively sent only to those who are believed to hold the same opinion as you. Remember to respect Wikipedia's principle of consensus-building by allowing decisions to reflect the prevailing opinion among the community at large. Thank you. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 12:19, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Hebel, you are overreacting it. Since these persons are well-known experts about Hungary and very old an experienced Wikipedians, it is a natural action if you just ad hoc plan to rewrite history!(KIENGIR (talk) 23:26, 14 December 2015 (UTC))

You left a message on my talk page. I'm not sure what you want? I have skim read the wall of text that contains a debate. I do not know this history. I can only flip a coin as to who is right. You guys seem to be arguing quite well about a point but you need to agree exactly what this point is. If it is "Did country A legally exist in 18??" then that can be checked and argued over. As it is you seem to be wondering around. I will not watch this page so you need to leave message (if any) on my talk page. Victuallers (talk) 17:32, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

Hungary 1526-1857[edit]

User:KIENGIR. Please wait what Fakirbakir has to say. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 01:05, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

Alig van idom, probalok az unnepek alatt idot szanni a temara. Boldog Bekes Karacsonyt! Fakirbakir (talk) 13:57, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Austro Hungarian Compromise[edit]

User:KIENGIR, the text you reinstate here was, as you've repeatedly been told, removed by consensus AND is denied reinstatement by WP:DENY because it was introduced by a sock of a blocked user. In case you don't understand, agreement between me + User: 82.119.98.162 vesus sock of blocked user = consensus. Do not involve this article in our dispute or I will make a new ANI report. Gerard von Hebel (talk) 02:22, 24 December 2015 (UTC)

As I told you, I did not see any consensus, and if I am understanding good you want to say the majority decides about consensus or what? (2:1) Then also I could say regarding the two other articles that User: Fakirbakir + Me vs. Hebel is 2-1...how could one editor and an ip address decide on such a "consensus"? Then better take it to the ANI since the consensus that I do not find is also unacceptable, since it is hindering the true content of the sources and removing very important pharapraphs, clear vandalism look like! Moreover the history does not start with sockpuppets, since before it was originally put by non-sockpuppets, so be careful with the explanation! And the most inmportant is, I did not reinstated anything former, since I added the pharapraph with modified content! (KIENGIR (talk) 01:25, 25 December 2015 (UTC))

Empire of Austria related articles[edit]

User:KIENGIR. Perhaps we should get away from some of the language we're now stuck in. Just a thought. Nothing chiseled in stone and not final yet but just an attempt to make text that can work:

"In 1804 the Holy Roman Emperor Francis II, who was also the ruler of the dynastic lands of the Habsburg dynasty within and outside the Holy Roman Empire founded the Empire of Austria in which all his dynastic lands were included. He did so because he foresaw either the end of the Holy Roman Empire, or the eventual accession as Holy Roman Emperor of Napoleon, who had earlier that year adopted the title of an Emperor of the French. To safeguard his dynasty’s Imperial status he adopted the additional hereditary title of an Emperor of Austria. In doing so he created a formal overarching structure for the Habsburg Monarchy, that had functioned as a composite monarchy for about three hundred years before. Apart from now being included in a new “Kaiserthum”, the workings of the overarching structure and the status of its component lands at first stayed much the same as they had been under the composite monarchy that existed before 1804. This was especially demonstrated by the status of the Kingdom of Hungary, whose affairs remained to be administered by it’s own institutions (King and Diet) as they had been under the composite monarchy, in which they had always been considered a separate Realm. In the new situation there were therefore no Imperial institutions involved in it’s internal government." Gerard von Hebel (talk) 21:25, 27 December 2015 (UTC)

I think first the Kingdom of Hungary (1526-1867) article should be resolved, since it is the most easier as having the less debated content. I will answer on your page.(KIENGIR (talk) 02:12, 28 December 2015 (UTC))

Notice of Edit warring noticeboard discussion[edit]

Information icon Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you.

Hello KIENGIR. I too wrote something on the above report. You may want to read that. Frankly, your modus operandum confuses me. We have an agreement on the Hungary article, that could be a good basis for agreement on the Austrian Empire article as well, for which I already made a proposal. Which I also commend to your attention. Why this (frankly rather problematic) stuff on the other article specially now at this point? A 1RR violation? What were you thinking? Gerard von Hebel (talk) 14:57, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
It was not a willfull 1RR violation, a I checked the time two times before, but it seems because of the time zone confusion it could happen, not any Administrators answered my question about this, even after the edit the time did not have less then 24 hours, but after I saw it was recorded 10 minutes before. I told you earlier my point that at least if we did not touch two articles this one should be left as it is until new consensus, the pages may have similar content but they are not identical and I don't see any problematic content. You should not have intervened and leave the case - this 1RR - to resolve with only 123Steller and the Administrators. I am sure because of your text I was blocked that was again not as accurate as it should have been!(KIENGIR (talk) 16:16, 5 January 2016 (UTC))

Edit warring at Austro-Hungarian Compromise of 1867[edit]

Stop icon with clock
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 48 hours for edit warring. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may appeal this block by first reading the guide to appealing blocks, then adding the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.

During a dispute, you should first try to discuss controversial changes and seek consensus. If that proves unsuccessful, you are encouraged to seek dispute resolution, and in some cases it may be appropriate to request page protection.

The full report is at this edit warring complaint (permalink). I'm also alerting you of the discretionary sanctions under WP:ARBEE (see below). EdJohnston (talk) 16:02, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

Articles about Austria-Hungary are covered by discretionary sanctions under WP:ARBEE[edit]

Commons-emblem-notice.svg This message contains important information about an administrative situation on Wikipedia. It does not imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.

Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding , a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

EdJohnston (talk) 16:05, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

File:Orologio rosso or File:Orologio verde DOT SVG (red clock or green clock icon, from Wikimedia Commons)
This blocked user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy). Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

KIENGIR (block logactive blocksglobal blocksautoblockscontribsdeleted contribsfilter logcreation logchange block settingsunblockcheckuser (log))


Request reason:

Hi everybody, this is the warning in the talk page of the corresponding article: You must not make more than one revert per 24 hours to this article and are subject to discretionary sanctions while editing this page. -> I thought I did not make more than one revert in 24 hours, since I carefully checked the time, but I see my last action was made 7:56 January 3. that is 10 minutes earlier than 24 hours according to the last edit...although I checked the clock and I remember 08:47 CET....just for curiosity, in the English Wikipedia always the editor's current time is recorded, or GMT? Thanks for the asnwer!KIENGIR (talk) 08:24, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Decline reason:

No grounds for unblock provided. Watching the clock so as to continue to edit war without violating a revert restriction is still edit warring, and that's what you are blocked for. --jpgordon::==( o ) 15:07, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired.

Hello KIENGIR. It appears you have been steadily warring to add this material between December 22 and January 3. At one point, User:KrakatoaKatie placed the article under full protection to stop the war. When protection expired, you were right back at it. In your edit summaries, you have been telling other people to follow dispute resolution, while you continue to restore your material over and over. EdJohnston (talk) 14:41, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

KIENGIR, you're quickly becoming the definition of a tendentious editor. Katietalk 15:02, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
File:Orologio rosso or File:Orologio verde DOT SVG (red clock or green clock icon, from Wikimedia Commons)
This blocked user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy). Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

KIENGIR (block logactive blocksglobal blocksautoblockscontribsdeleted contribsfilter logcreation logchange block settingsunblockcheckuser (log))


Request reason:

--jpgordon,Katie,EdJohnston, I do not intend to appeal for more unblock request's until expiration, but please all of you explain to me carefully why the other users who continously reverted my edit were not sanctioned, although on this page I added a new, modified content, a did not reverted primarily anyone's edit, and if a user does not agree with something he should discuss until resolution as I and other's followed on the other disputed pages in which one has been already resolved. Yes, according to the official clock I broke a rule without wanting, I am very much sorry for that, but you all have to see my good faith some other editors did not proof and they do not seem to keep fair play. They continously speaking about a consensus that I still did not see and anyway the three articles's content are not identical, so that untruthful argument that "I would reinstate something that I already agreed to remove" is not true and a slight slip...If you carefully check the talk pages you'll clearly see who was provocating who and who is professional in the topic. I see heavy double measure of some other editor's who are even disturbed of my existence, I was accused of many things that were never proved to be true, but they have the right to revert or remove anything unsanctioned and they put non-valid/distorted information for Administrators sparing the important details, and they identify me as a problem! Katie, I just read what means in Wikipedia terms "tendentious user", I do not agree with it's details would represent me, since I have always a neutral point of view and the struggle to have valid, factual and flawless content of Wikipedia can be really called as "tendentious" as the word is meaning. The fact I touch sensitive topics is not willful, but it is hard to bear if non-valid content is present and some groups does not seek the professional resolution but eager to make accusations. So I have to pinpoint again, the rule is to keep the page unharmed until resolution, and I wanted to see and have the right if the other parties are respecting this as we did on the two other articles, but they still under resolution added new materials to the article. Not I was the one who started the reverts in the corresponding page, thus those should be trialed who reverted continously my addition, before seeking resolution consensus first! The fact by mistake the 1RR was broken, is now an unfortunate casus belli to put me in the front but meanwhile the root cause is forgotten. I am very much sorry, though I checked two times the clock! When Katie first protected the page, she said the actual state freezed has no connection to which version should be left until dispute resolution, that's why my intention was to have that version that should be valid, as it is always in Wikipedia. Only this was my goal, and not to continue edit war, this was continued by some IP addresses, Hebel and 123Steller users. Please check more carefully in the future, Thank You! KIENGIR (talk) 11:47 pm, Yesterday (UTC+1)

Decline reason:

There is no reason for unblocking given in this request. Vanjagenije (talk) 00:02, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired.

  • KIENGIR, your block will expire soon, but if you continue the behavior that led to this block, you may easily be blocked again. So, I strongly advice you to follow the WP:BRD process and not to edit war. You are repeatedly speaking about the clock, but you have to understand that clock is irrelevant. WP:EW policy is clear about this: Any appearance of gaming the system by reverting a fourth time (or second time in this case) just outside the 24-hour slot may also be considered edit warring. Vanjagenije (talk) 00:02, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
User:KIENGIR, you posted an additional comment on the closed report at WP:AN3. It is hardly useful for you to continue your complaints about the conduct of others. Not only did you break the edit warring policy, you appear to be pushing a WP:POV. This gives you little credibility if you are still appealing for help from administrators. It is best for you to engage in negotiations on the article talk page. If you can't persuade the others, you should let it go. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 19:00, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
Dear EdJohnston,
If an other user involved himself without any invitation to accuse me and present the things in a very one-sided way and he stated not factual things I think I have the right to react and to defend myself. Regarding the edit policy I acknowledged my mistake, however other's brake was not even taken into consideration. I do not push any WP:POV and those who take the time and carefully check the chronological happenings on he three pages, moreover read the content of the talk pages will notice what I have referred to. If someone has a credibility here, it is me, since I support factuality against those who are tending to hide some things finding any reason to distract the reader or administrators. There is not a more important support for this as the history of the pages and the content of the talk pages. Try me any time, some more experienced editors can very easily compromise any good-faith editors with less-experience, the devil is always in the deatils. However I pinpointed clearly and sharply how some other editors are acting in an improper way, still I am presented/treated as a bad boy. This is my only problem, a kind of double measure. Regards(KIENGIR (talk) 06:40, 7 January 2016 (UTC))

Clarification[edit]

Regarding your text about me: "you do not want me to repeat things", I want to make it clear that I did not accuse you for repeating anything. I was referring to the proposed text, where Hungary was described as a kingdom, a country, and a (separate) realm in the same phrase, which looked a little redundant to me. If Hebel's new version is unchanged on this portion, I will not insist of it. Let it be as you want (with "country" untouched) if it is important for you.

I did not read all the long discussions on this subject, and I don't consider a specialist as much as Hebel. If you reach a consensus with him, I will not raise any objection.

Thanks for the patience in finding a compromise. Peace! 123Steller (talk) 22:38, 12 January 2016 (UTC)

Transylvania[edit]

I apologize for the incidents at the articles about the Principality of Transylvania, I should not have engaged in the edit war.

Btw, I found this old map Transylvania [2] where, besides Saxon and Hungarian counties, there are also Wallachian and Moldavian regions. What do you know about them, which was their status? 123Steller (talk) 07:10, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Ok, I accept the peace offer! I checked the map carefully. Old, medieval age created maps have many times distortions regarding today's maps or fair geographical locations. After a longer check - as well knowing the exact borders and territorial extent of Principality of Transylvania - I verified all that is shown in the map is part of the Carpathian Basin, it does not surpass the historical borders neither the classic Kingdom of Hungary or Principality of Transylvania. Thus it does not contain historical Wallachian or Moldavian regions (= and territory or region from the Principality of Wallachia or Principality of Moldavia). I think the author wrote and attested about the population of the current time, as it is exactly written in the South-Transylvanian border, near Hátszeg area that is a well-known place were Vlachs were settled in early times thus there their population grow in centuries. The same I consider about the "Moldavia" designation, since in those areas the Hungarian Kings earlier granted feudal rights in exchange for allegiance of Wallachian/Moldavian landlords, and more of them - with their settled Vlach people were later expanding to the territory of Principality of Moldavia also. So I think - similar to the Saxon and Hungarian, Szekler latin deisgnations - above the official borders and counties, we get a picture about the near ethnic-composition of regions & historical, traditional regions extension whether they are official or unofficial - i. e. traditional Saxon cities or areas, although this does not exclude other ethnics were also present.
Short conclusion: the "Wallachian" and "Moldavian" regions did not have any (official) status, they are just an unofficial designation by the author of the map about ethnical presence (I now do not intervene in the Moldavian ethnicity debate - the author - as contemporary times - is referring to the state of origin this way).(KIENGIR (talk) 22:51, 8 March 2016 (UTC))

Subotica[edit]

Subotica is a city in Serbia, the only official language being Serbian. Hence, Szabadka is not an official city name. Which part of this simple logic do you not understand? Sideshow Bob 07:34, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

It seems you did not understood well. CONTEMPORARY OFFICIAL NAME OF THE CITY IS SZABADKA. Which part of this simple logic do you not understand? Cheers! (KIENGIR (talk) 00:11, 12 March 2016 (UTC))
Subotica is in Serbia, where Serbian language is official. Problem? Also, caps lock don't make your argument less stupid. Sideshow Bob 07:08, 14 March 2016 (UTC)
I see, your problem is with the English language. You do not understand what means CONTEMPORARY. Check a vocabulary or talk with an English teacher,maybe the third time you won't make yourself again ridicoulus!(KIENGIR (talk) 23:38, 14 March 2016 (UTC))

Hello non-ridiculous intelligent super-editor. Try learning the difference between the word "contemporary" used as a noun and as an adjective, if you know what those are, and try understanding the difference. Also, please do not contact me anymore, since I couldn't care less about your passive-aggressive tantrums and this issue as well. Goodbye. Sideshow Bob 07:55, 15 March 2016 (UTC)

Your grammar lesson is what you had to learn, since then you would not make the edit that you made, where it is OBVIOUS what means contemporary, next to the CURRENT official name :) The rest is a useless trash talk. If you do not answer anymore, I do not intend to continue this discussion. So long!(KIENGIR (talk) 00:46, 16 March 2016 (UTC))
(Talk-page spalker, yes I admit) Hey KIENGIR, there has been a missunderstanding here between the two of you. You are right, and Sideshow Bob is wrong for the tone he used, but his missjudgment there is not uncommon at all. When I first saw that table I had the same first thought as he did cause in many languages the term contemporary would refer to present day. FkpCascais (talk) 03:43, 16 March 2016 (UTC)
Ok, peace.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:15, 16 March 2016 (UTC))

Italy, Hungary and Trianon[edit]

Hello User:KIENGIR. sorry that I havn't been able to find much about your earlier question to me, I'll be looking into that in the next weeks. But a question about this edit you made. What territories did the Kingdom of Italy get from Hungary at the Treatry of Trianon? It couldn't have been Fiume (Rijeka) because that was allocated to Yugoslavia at the time (although eventually annexed by Italy). And what about Poland? I seem to remember they annexed some territories on the North of the Carpathian, but I think that was only in 1939? Gerard von Hebel (talk) 00:06, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Hi Gerard von Hebel,
I hope you will find out the truth abouth my last question, I am looking forward to it. Let's start with Poland. You are wrong Poland never annexed any territory from Hungary after, maybe you confuse it with the annexation of Teschen in 1939 from Czechoslovakia? Poland gained a 589 km² territory from Szepes and Árva counties. Regarding Fiume - as you see it also in the attached map -, it is also indicated in the traditional or commonly used maps where the losses of Hungary is demonstrated. Since from the beginning the status quo was disputed between Italy, Kingdom of SHS and some other's this is referring better the end, since it was divided between them thus Italy got a part of it. If you think, you may add "finally" since the section is meant to the losses of the territories and their final (interwar period) status quo, not necessarily when the pen was left from the documents signed on 4 June 1920....also consider, the legistlation and enactment and codification of the treaty was internationally finished only in 26. July 1921....similarly as the WWI closing treaties were enacted in 1947....so all of this meant as the final, legal, internationally recognized status quo, as the final result of the dissolution of the territory of Hungary.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:29, 8 June 2016 (UTC))
OK Thanks, where Poland is concerned I was indeed thinking about the Szepes and Árva counties. But I somehow thought that played a role in the Munich agreement as well. I seem to remember that there was an occupation of Fiume by Italians who took it from Yugoslavia and based some kind of "Free state" there before Mussolini annexed it. No problem about referring to the end situation as such, but I was wondering if there may have been some territory there added to Italy in 1920/21 already. Oh and you should change "littlier" into smaller. Littlier is not really an English word. Although even the Dutch would transcribe it as such..Gerard von Hebel (talk) 00:41, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
Ok(KIENGIR (talk) 00:44, 8 June 2016 (UTC))

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ANI[edit]

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Biruitorul Talk 21:23, 11 July 2016 (UTC)

I am very sorry instead of a collaborative discussion you introduced a propagandisctic personal attack against me. That is against good faith and collaborative efforts to improve articles. We don't live anymore in Ceaucescu's regime, wake-up! (KIENGIR (talk) 23:26, 11 July 2016 (UTC))

Issues regarding edits on the Hungary-Romania football rivalry article[edit]

I think it's a bit ironic that you are the one who is schooling me about being impartial. For example, i took a look on that Dailymail article you cited and noticed that a large portion of the Incidents section that you edited on the Wiki article was simply copy pasted from there. But one thing i noticed regarding that Dailymail article is that the only incident that you didn't bother to copy and paste into the Incidents section on the Wiki article was about Hungarian fans setting several seats on fire. I, of course put it in the Incidents section with a citation, but i must ask why didn't you bother to put it up there in the first place? It's because you don't really want people reading to know the truth about hungarian fans, that's why. Hungarian fans are notorious in the football world for their extremely violent and overally nasty behavior, yet when i discovered that Wiki article there was virtually no information on the incidents caused by them in the Incidents section. You only put the incidents regarding the matches at the Arena Nationala (Romania) there, and even so you didn't bother to report the incidents done there by the hungarians specifically. You even said the Romanian anthem is never booed in Hungary yet whenever i watched my team play there i could only hear booing by the Hungarian fans. You continuosly deleted that info from the article until i added some citations to confirm that what i was saying was true. Are you ashamed by your peers behaviour, that's why you so desperately try to deny and hide it? Also, i didnt delelte that section about Romanian fans beating each other necesarilly because i wanted to hide it, but because it was badly written. After you re-added it and added one more citation to it i fixed the phrasing and kept it there. Also, you are saying you're working with the Wikipedia Staff, yet when i took a look on your talk page i saw that you were banned multiple times by them regarding your edits on articles concerning Hungary, and that you have made a habit of editing a lot of articles concerning both Romania and Hungary giving them a more positive stance on Hungary than Romania. I say you should just stop letting your national pride get in the way of Wikipedia editing because these are articles are made for the rest of the world to read and your hungarian bias is very unfair in this matter. If this is how the articles about Hungary-Romania look on the English Wikipedia due to the edits made by hungarians then i can only imagine what kind of lies about romanians are on the Hungarian Wikipedia. I won't bother editing any of those articles such as the Hungarian-Romanian War because it's just too much effort. All i can do is encourage foreign users to use other more credible sources about Hungarian-Romanian history because the articles here are written in hungarian points of view. I will also encourage you to take a look on this 30 minute short movie. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DauT5r34Gl4 Anyway, i rest my case. The Incidents section now looks alright and fair after my edits so my mission is complete, but this whole debacle we had will just show the world how hungarians deny their nasty behavior to the world by trying to delete it from Wikipedia, and how desperate hungarians are about having a positive image in the world even if that means hiding truth here. It's very laughable, i must say. --Scheianu (talk) 23:20, 14 July 2016 (UTC)

Scheianu,

- I did not make any extensive edit in the correspondent article less than you did

- I had to warn you because you harmed those rules that I cited, moreover you were not netral but heavily biassed, as you proved also your heavy dislike for Hungarians

- In this article that what is put "on the first place" has no real relevance, chronological order better

- B****s..t, if I would have wanted to hide anything from the Hungarian fans I would have make disappear half of he content that is heavily citing everything about Hungarians, but less the incidents about the other side

- In Arena Nationala the first major incident was in the Romanian sector where Romanians beated Romanians, after the Romanian security started to beat these Romanian groups, including children, journalists, etc., it had no connection ot the Hungarian fans

- Then you have a big problem about objectivity, since in the broadcasts you clearly hear the Romanian national anthem and only very little time your hear anything disturbing that not the majority of the Hungarian fans, but very rarely some little groups. In Bucharest, everybody is horribly whistling and booing, so you continus modus-operandum about disrupting the article to maintain that lie that Hungarians generally "boo" the anthem and meanwhile silencing about the continous and persistent horrible behavior in Bucharest is one the greatest shame of all time of yours, and it is ridicoulus you try to wash yourself out from this!

- I let that one sentence citated because if we check all the matches, the behavior of the Hungarian fans there was the most apparent, although still the anthem is clearly to be heared, my objectivity and good heart was the reason although you did not deserve it. It my citations was badly written, why did not you rewrite it immediately? :) Maybe you were concentraing of the your Hungararian-hatred...

- I am not ashamed of anything, you have to ashamed about your behavior

- I was NOT banned "multiple times", once it happened by mistake because I did not check the clock and my action violated a time limit. I never gave "any positive stance" in the favor of Hungary, my edits were increasing obejctivity, moreover I corrected heavy and childish mistakes, inaccuracies, etc. thus I raised the trustability and credibility of the pages. Any yes, I work together with the Wikipedia Staff if any issue is emerging

- You again mixed your person with me, in Wikipedia there are Wikipedians, no natinalities, not any national pride is influencing me, but you showed in from of the Wikipedia community that you are heavily disliking Hungarians moreover you wanted to bias the article about the national anthems, than can be VERIFIED by every people since ALL THE MATCHES ARE RECORDED. Point.

- You have again a bad faith, because Hungarian Wikipedians mostly struggle to put on an objective manner the heavy imbalance in some articles, recently mostly Romanian Wikipedians are fair most of the times and they are also interested in good articles, not proaganda articles.

- The youtube video I know, it has heavy propaganda and bias towards the events, it is silencing of many-many other distractions that any objective, professional documentary should contain

- We don't hide any truth, the laughable is now you want to act in the manner of being objective, but also with your continous Hungarian-accuser, prejudicate statements you just prove the opposite that you'd like to appear.

- As you proved it also with your last edit, you again posted information of the Hungarians, but not anything that would be negative about Romanians. This is your way of the "truth", "obejectivity", etc. We know your type, generally we meet this regarding some beginners (the youtube video you wanted to use as stress pattern of your views, claims, opinion about the Hungarians and with this you wanted to justify your negative approach on the Hungarians today, moreover regarding a sport event that has not connection to the video. Amateur.)

That's all for now.(KIENGIR (talk) 19:57, 15 July 2016 (UTC))

I see you have a history on your attitude against Romanians.Skyhighway (talk) 19:06, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
It is natural that if I meet with inaccuracies, or improper claims or anything than I stand up for precisity and objectivity, but I don't have any attitude on Romanians or anyone else, it is not based on nationality or whatsoever. Before making any sudden claims, you should enirely study the subject since you have anyway very sudden groundless edits.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:30, 27 September 2018 (UTC))

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August 2016[edit]

Stop icon

Your recent editing history shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the article's talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See BRD for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in your being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you don't violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Dschslava Δx parlez moi 00:28, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Information icon Please do not attack other editors. Comment on content, not on contributors. Personal attacks damage the community and deter users. Please stay cool and keep this in mind while editing. Thank you. Helmut von Moltke (talk) 00:39, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

@Dschslava:, the edit war was rendered by Biruitorul as during consensus building he reverted and edit the second time and thus he fulfilled the frame repeadtedly. I did not revert his additions instead of one case when I proposed a new consensus and the I also reverted my formed edits, despite he reverted my edits more time. I initiated a discussion with him with more attempts on his talk page, he refused to communicate and continued his activity. I totally followed the WP:BRD princpiple, however I am aware your warning is an automated message.
@Helmut von Moltke:, please show me a proof where I attacked any editor, because I do not know about such a case, meanwhile I suffered continous personal attacks and I just responded to defamations and false accusations and I raised a question of an improper behavior. You should have warned those who attacked me. I feel a serious imbalance here, don't let yourself to be coined by any user who already tried to coin other editors or Administrators.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:04, 20 August 2016 (UTC))
This edit summary constitutes a violation of WP:NPA. Helmut von Moltke (talk) 06:04, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
@Helmut von Moltke:, well if you regard as a violation of WP:NPA that I ask a question of a possible behavior of the future meanwhile I am threated and I meet continous personal attacks, I ask you again, you do not find a little bit a double measure that for similar reasons you don't warn the other user who attacked me with "obsession" and "revisonist agenda" although these have also no connection to the content of the edit? (KIENGIR (talk) 08:42, 21 August 2016 (UTC))
Biruitorul has also been warned for personal attacks due to the incidents you mention. However, perception of being attacked by another editor is no justification for you to engage in personal attacks on anyone. If you want to debate the neutrality of Biruitorul's edits, you can do so at AN/I under the relevant subsection. Helmut von Moltke (talk) 16:44, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
Ok, when I checked first I did not see, I know my rights, however I am not that type that is eager to generate incidents. Finally, I did not mean to justify anything, I just reacted to the possible double measure.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:52, 21 August 2016 (UTC))

ANI notice[edit]

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. Dschslava Δx parlez moi 05:25, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

Ok, I will check it soon.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:05, 20 August 2016 (UTC))

"false information"[edit]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Trianon#/media/File:Magyarorszag_1920.png

So does that look like false information to you? Once again i'm telling you, stop trying to hide the truth from articles, people need to see it. That info was actually very important for the article because history is the key source of this rivalry, btw. I'll add it back, this time you better not delete it — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scheianu (talkcontribs) 23:37, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

@Scheianu:, You are very near to be reported for personal attack, I warn you again and this is my final warning! You put false information, since the number of Hungarians were not 1 million, moreover you put a misunderstandable emotion on the subject - that anyway does not belong here, but to the relevant history articles - since Romanians not always had a clear majority in Transylvania, moreover the word "clear" is arguable if it's about a little bit over 50% percent - anyway it is funny you have linked a map that does not support your statements fully. People can gather these information where it belongs, but not to this article. It seems you are working hard to collect all the negative informations on Hungarians and you do not concentrate on objectivity or NPOV. Don't add it back until consensus!(KIENGIR (talk) 00:00, 3 September 2016 (UTC))

I'm not trying to focus on negativity i'm just trying to add the truth. You shouldn't be the one talking about obiectivity, as prior to me discovering and starting editing this article, the incidents section was only filled with bad stuff done by the romanians, despite the hungarians causing more incidents. Why wasn't there anything about incidents caused by hungarians? If i leave out that info then it will make the romanians look likes big evil thieves which is not true, that map that i linked and many other articles here show that. The number from what i know was around 1.000.000-1.600.000, but not any more than that. Yes romanians had a majority a little over 50% but hungarians weren't anywhere close to that, as there were plenty of germans as well. History is the key cause of the rivalry between the two teams so i think it should be fitting that it is included in this article. Why can't you accept it? I don't have to agree with any consensus with you, as there are plenty of articles here on Wikipedia that favor what i wrote. And if you keep deleting it, I shall be the one reporting you. Scheianu (talk) 00:50, 3 September 2016 (UTC)

@Scheianu:,
Sorry, your edit history clearly shows that primarily you add one-sided content mostly and you speak about "truth", on the other hand you don't want ot objective but provocative. Prior to your appearance, I did not edit highly relevant content on the article - that anyway contained much littlier and not one-sided information - I have no responsibility on the former content, however now the article is filled mostly by your additions that is tolerated also mostly in a very liberal way.
"If i leave out that info then it will make the romanians look likes big evil thieves which is not true, that map that i linked and many other articles here show that." -> This is just you personal opinion, frustrated POV, if we make a reference on the Treaty than the reader can pull information from there, and the map is also there.
The number was exactly around 1 600 000, not 1 million! The rest you mentioned does not change anything on what I have said. The key cause of the rivalry is already mentioned and it is the Treaty of Trianon and it's consequences. Your wordage was anyway incorrect in a way because Hungarians could have been unsatisfied not necessarily loosing territories, but about the injust borders, i.e. it could have been arranged that less Hungarians remain outside the borders, and anyway, I repeat it does not belong this article, any explanation would be too long and out of scope.
Be careful, because you have to have consensus with me, you don't know the rules of WP:CONSENSUS? However, I did not delete you addition but modified it, and you would be ridicoulus if you'd make a report since I did not harm any Wikipedia rule, and don't forget, my report on your personal attack just depends on my well-known good heart (WP:NPA), so better collaborate not to be surprised in a negative way. You should behave like a Wikipedian, without any personal emotions or patriotic feelings!(KIENGIR (talk) 01:09, 3 September 2016 (UTC))

Natasa Dusev-Janics[edit]

I don't know, I never heard of her. Tzowu (talk) 23:09, 14 September 2016 (UTC)

Megyék[edit]

Itt válaszolok, hogy ne Borsoka vitalapját írjuk tele. Rendben, legyen úgy, de lehet, hogy ebből nagy vita lesz. Szerintem sokkal inkább probléma, hogy az összes egykori vármegyéről szóló cikk elég katasztrofális állapotban van. Sajnos alig van itt magyar szerkesztő, pedig nagyon sok a teendő, én sem vagyok már annyira aktív, mint korábban. Most Budapest polgármestereit írom meg, aztán remélhetőleg visszatérek a középkorra. --Norden1990 (talk) 21:58, 15 September 2016 (UTC)

@Norden1990:,
ok, bármikor írhatsz. A vitákhoz hozzászoktam, öt éve folyamatosan támadtak, támadnak, már vagy ötször mószeroltak be vagy jelentettek fel, de mindig elbuktak és végül az a módosítás, illetve szükséges objektivitás amit forszíroztam ma már permamens és az összes szócikkben gond nélkül ki lehet javítani őket, és olyan horderejű dolgokról van szó, ami szomszédaink tudatlanságát illetően hatalmas felháborodást kelt, de a történelmi tények azok tények (és senki nem merte feszegetni őket). Borsoka nagyon elegáns és kimért, nem megy bele feltétlenül folyton vitákba, de ha hasonló dolgokról van szó, nagyon kitartóan és kulturáltan képviseli a megfelelő álláspontot, Fakirbakir Hál'Istennek ha kell keményebben is belemegy a dolgokba, sokat segít nekem. Körtefával keveset tudtam beszélni, kár hogy talán nem annyira aktív mostanában. Én igyekszem folyamatosan a vadhajtásaimat lenyesegetni, ehhez azonban a Ti támogatásotok is kell, nem maradhatok mindig egyedül, hiába van igazam, sajnos ezen a helyen a lobbi is számít és sajnos sokszor nem azért használják fel amire kéne, de én is egyre jobban fejlődöm. Azért kérlek ne add fel és próbálj aktív maradni, nekem sem volt időm az elmúlt négy évben de ezen a nyáron változtattam és felturbóztam magam, viccesen fogalmazva én vagyok az elővéd ütközőzóna, Nektek már csak remélhetőleg higgadtan söprögetni kell :) Azért a Wikiproject Hungary-t jobban össze lehetne fogni, bár nem tudom most hogy áll a dolog vagy ki irányítja, illetve mennyi inaktív user van, tényleg csak titeket látlak szinte történelmi témában, habár Enginerfactories-el mostanában sokat találkozom, azt mondja egy csomó cikket ő írt, de mindig elfelejti az accountját és újat csinál, elvileg az egész Austria-Hungary cikket ő írta. Egy szó mint száz, nagyon sok torténelmi ügyet kiharcoltam és ezzel lehet hogy tisztelnek - és tartanak is tőlem - de az adminok is egyre jobban megismernek és sokszor segítenek is. Úgyhogy innen már nem léphetünk vissza, ki kell állnunk az objektív és hiteles történelemszemléletért.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:10, 15 September 2016 (UTC))

Edit warring at János Bihari[edit]

You've been warned for edit warring and personal attacks per this closure at WP:AN3. This seems to be a dispute on whether to use the Slovak name or the Hungarian name for the county where Bihari was born. If so, it certainly falls under the WP:ARBEE arbitration case, which seeks to prevent edits which are motivated by nationalism. Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 15:59, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

@EdJohnston:, you must be joking since I opened the complaint because of edit warring that was NOT initiated by me, so I don't understand why I am warned...I am sorry that you did not understood that ("now Bratislava") was never the Slovak name of that county, the CITY of present-day BRATISLAVA was confused with a non-existent historic COUNTY and not even the Hungarian name (Pozsony Vármegye), but the English refernce name of it's mother article Pozsony County was put. I and hope you are aware that fom my side it is not any "nationalism", simply a mistake was corrected. I did not make any personal attack, the description of a long-term behavior over months of this provocative user is described.(KIENGIR (talk) 16:15, 13 November 2016 (UTC))
You should have taken EdJohnston's warning more seriously. Instead, you again attacked the other editor you're having a dispute with here. I have therefore blocked you for 48 hours for the attack. See WP:GAB for your appeal rights.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:55, 14 November 2016 (UTC)
@Bbb23:,
did you notice, that Edjohnston did not read carefully the details of the incident and he made more mistakes by judging the details? Just check the incidents or the article's talk page. The diff you're showing does not contain any attack, but a fair description and answer on an issue where the other party is provocating and fooling editors, administrators continously. In Wikipedia, not any disruptive behavior or pattern can be named or described? If I describe what happened, how could be an attack? And please answer also, how it that possible by an ANI Incident to take any action without hearing also the other party? You think this is a proper Administrator behavior or objective? There is not even a hearing or trial, just an ad hoc sentence?(KIENGIR (talk) 19:35, 14 November 2016 (UTC))

Place names in Eastern Europe fall under WP:ARBEE[edit]

Commons-emblem-notice.svg This message contains important information about an administrative situation on Wikipedia. It does not imply any misconduct regarding your own contributions to date.

Please carefully read this information:

The Arbitration Committee has authorised discretionary sanctions to be used for pages regarding Eastern Europe, a topic which you have edited. The Committee's decision is here.

Discretionary sanctions is a system of conduct regulation designed to minimize disruption to controversial topics. This means uninvolved administrators can impose sanctions for edits relating to the topic that do not adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, our standards of behavior, or relevant policies. Administrators may impose sanctions such as editing restrictions, bans, or blocks. This message is to notify you that sanctions are authorised for the topic you are editing. Before continuing to edit this topic, please familiarise yourself with the discretionary sanctions system. Don't hesitate to contact me or another editor if you have any questions.

EdJohnston (talk) 16:00, 13 November 2016 (UTC)

Uncivil behaviour[edit]

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.

@Bbb23:, this must be a joke, how to judge and arbitrate without reading or hearing the other side? Did you read the corresponding talk pages, or just the scarcely shown diffs bythe manipulative user? No personal attacks has been carried out, I am harassed since 3 months by this user as he countinously provocating and fulfilling WP:NOTHERE and WP:I just don't like it. Administrators has a great responsibility, by their judgements, now you supported - even without knowing - a tendentious provocator. Please check "User:Ditinili reported by User:KIENGIR (Result: Protection, Both warned)" and the János Bihari talk page and also the mistakes of EdJohnston's who was also coined and were careless. The most important imformation is the last last comment by me in the János Bihari talk page - of course the report spared it -, don't let yourself to be coined. Soon I have to raise a WP:ANI incident regarding the misjudgement of careless Administrators also who without really investigating the case just try to quickly get rid of the problem. Describing a situation is not a personal attack! You think seriously you warn me of a ANI discussion where I am unable to involve?? Are we in the Communism?? Seriously?(KIENGIR (talk) 15:22, 14 November 2016 (UTC))
KIENGIR, you have conducted a high-pitched angry argument over a matter of four or five words. These words could surely be bargained out to a compromise without much fuss, but when it takes you 500 words of barely-grammatical angry prose just to say anything, it does not seem worth the effort to reason with you. EdJohnston (talk) 15:32, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

@EdJohnston:, really, but why don't you understand the cause/phenomenon? You did not even read properly the case, you did not now about supporting other opinions or links, you did not check the other user's background, you even did not interpret properly a diff, you did not recognize that correcting a mistake is not an edit warring, you did not want to talk, and you say it does not seem worth the effort to reason with you??? It means in the future if a disruptive editor with malicious aim is continously provocating/misleading users, administrators in talk pages, generating incidents, pretending personal attacks and uncivility if there is a clear description of their disruptive activity, and by generating useless ANI issues persisting to eliminate other editors with real correct arguments and evidences will have an advantage? What the other user will learn from this? How his behavior will be stopped? Is there any WIKI rule regarding persecution or provocation or defamations or wilful misleading an editor or administrator? Or the problem is it does not exist and that's why it is enough to claim a personal attack by selected and truncated diffs without any connection ot any personal abuse? How to treat a user who by his first entrance is checking an other users contribuiton and starting to persecute and follow him over months in all pages? Such aims are malicious! how to fight against them Edjohnston, honestly? I should raise incidents? What I achieved? The thief says catch the thief? And joke is all about a and edit that's validity can be verified in two seconds? You have to sense that this not allright!

EdJohnston, everything was in your hand! You should have punished the disruptive aim of 3RR gaming attempts and you should have verified the state of the article as correct after 2 seconds of checking and you should have warned the other party for wait answer for his mediation question and until after to discuss or persist further modification. Now, you see, what you caused and the other user lived with the opportunity and laughing on you and me! Not my person is important here, first of all, but the correct quality articles, and for you the reputation and fair arbitration should be to prevent such escalations!(KIENGIR (talk) 17:40, 14 November 2016 (UTC))

"CONSENSUS"[edit]

@Bbb23:,
ok, would you please also answer my questions above towards you?
@Norden1990:,
for a consensus all participants agreement is needed, see WP:CONSENSUS especially sections "Consensus can be assumed if no editors object to a change." and "Editors who ignore talk page discussions yet continue to edit in or revert disputed material, or who stonewall discussions, may be guilty of disruptive editing and incur sanctions. Consensus cannot always be assumed simply because editors stop responding to talk page discussions in which they have already participated."
-> I have participated many consensus building, usually you wait after the proposal and only if all participants epxressed their opinions and agree may be the change only executed, you even have to wait one or two days in case...
The best solution appears to be to retreat the page to it's earlier content until really a consensus is built I've expressed my concerns earlier but you did not even wait to react on the proposal, that is not fair and correct and are against the rules (however I am confident it happenned by negligence), but I just cannot believe how @EdJohnston: could remove the protection without checking that if the necessary requierements for WP:CONSENSUS met....(and my questions towards him were still unanswered)
I ask all participants to be fair and keep the rules of Wikipedia, this is the third time that is something not ok, this is definetly not acceptable...(KIENGIR (talk) 21:19, 14 November 2016 (UTC))

Note about canvassing and seeking outside help[edit]

Hi @KIENGIR:, I am posting here because of your request at AN/I. Contrary to your statement, these edits [3][4][5] would be construed as WP:CANVASSING to win support in an editing dispute over content. The reason is that you specifically notified editors who were likely to share your viewpoint.

There are acceptable, constructive ways to appeal for help. Often in discussions on a page, editors will ping others like this (@KIENGIR:) who have previously contributed to relevant discussion on the page in an important way, and will specifically ping ALL editors, including those who have disagreed with them. An even better solution is to launch an RfC (WP:RFC), where a greater number of editors, most likely having no predetermined position, can come and weigh in. You can also seek a third opinion (WP:3O), or make a post at the neutral point of view noticeboard (WP:POVN).

If you find yourself wanting to notify only certain editors in a disagreement, stop, and use the resources linked above. They are designed to help you in situations like this. -Darouet (talk) 18:33, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

@Darouet:,
Contrary your POV-pushing, your statements does not hold since "The reason is that you specifically notified editors who were likely to share your viewpoint." does not hold, I did not know their viewpoint, I just known they have expertise also in the subject and they edit such articles, as you were told already in the ANI. It is useless to teach me about the rules, I know them and I also certainly know when RFC or POVN needed, etc. Please leave me be, I did not made any trouble to you, so you have no reason to harass me!(KIENGIR (talk) 19:11, 17 November 2016 (UTC))
Why are you saying I harassed you? You specifically asked me to come post here, like two or three times. -Darouet (talk) 20:07, 17 November 2016 (UTC)
@Darouet:, because you still continued in the ANI also, if our discussion just and only remains here in the future, then I will not consider it as a harassment. Let's see this time how you will behave.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:13, 17 November 2016 (UTC))
This is an incredibly condescending and aggressive comment. If you believe I'm harassing you, you are free to report me at ANI. Otherwise, stop it. You are the one after all who demanded repeatedly that I come here. -Darouet (talk) 03:15, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
,:Darouet, I disagree, zero agressivity, I am sorry the user still did not get the point, although he had enough. As I told not you are considered mainly guilty abput WP:HA, but an other user. You don't even care about my "demand", since you are still mentioning and posting in an other place, big shame on you again! You started everything, I had no conflict or buisness with you, everything is your fault, so better choose to leave me in peace and ingnore me everywhere!(KIENGIR (talk) 09:34, 22 November 2016 (UTC))
Anyway, don't worry about it. I am sorry one editor used the occasion of the ANI to pursue old grudges against you - obviously not my intention. -Darouet (talk) 10:45, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
Darouet, I am not worrying, but you have to understand I wish to spend my precius time for quality editing. I & some Hungarian editor's are used to that we are many times the target of some IP adresses, users generally because of their hatred and dislike for Hungarians, even if they try to hide it, we'll see what's going on after a while. I don't think that you are one of these, sometimes other's misunderstand us. However, I don't know the details of your reported case, I hope you'll solve with them your problem. Bye(KIENGIR (talk) 14:33, 22 November 2016 (UTC))

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Lajos Kossuth[edit]

Hi there, your deletion of the last two parts of my edit was unnecessary. Perhaps you didn't understand them? There is no word in the English language to differentiate between the adjectives Hungarian denoting the nation/language and Hungarian as a citizen of the Kingdom of Hungary. It is a VERY important distinction that my edit hinted at. For your second deletion, can you explain why you found the explanation superfluous?

@Leiduowen:, hi, referring Ugrian is a totally unnecessary approach, Hungarian is fair enough and clear. the second was not unnecessary, it was very much POV edit and not even may be the main cause.(KIENGIR (talk) 17:02, 3 December 2016 (UTC))

I wonder if you see my point. In order to explain the difference in English, you need to use a different adjective. If not Ugrian, Magyar vs. Hungarian should be used. The historical Latin term Natio Hungarica has no equivalent in the modern English language so your argument does not stand. (Please, check the relevant Wikipedia entry if you are not sure.) As for your second reversion, are you ignoring the elephant in the room? A random Google search produces many articles to substantiate my addition, e.g., http://www.karol-duck.estranky.sk/clanky/zoznam-madarskych-umeleckych-pamiatok.html. If you refuse to have a serious talk here, I will request a review of this case. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leiduowen (talkcontribs) 17:19, 3 December 2016 (UTC)

@Leiduowen:, I see your point that is mistaken, I don't have to check the relevant Wiki article or whatsoever, I am expert in the topic. The fact he was "considering himself Hungarian" is totally enough and understandable in English and also Magyar is not vs. Hungarian is all the cases, Ugrian is totally false and uneeded assertion here, it is language family. Moreove I did not "ignore any elephant in the room", you try to make an elephant about things that are not necessarily connected, your random google search does not "substantiate" any such addition. I never refused any (serious) talk, feel free to write to me.(KIENGIR (talk) 19:16, 3 December 2016 (UTC))

Kiengir, I do not quite understand what you mean by "[...] and also Magyar is not vs. Hungarian is all the cases". You obviously aren't a native English speaker. Care to rephrase? Your claim to expertise on the subject is unverifiable unless you produce a list of papers you published on this topic. Also, did you check the link I sent you? The reasons why all Magyar memorials outside Hungary got demolished after 1918 are explained there. So what do you with an editor that refuses to acknowledge facts? I am currently studying ways to challenge your reverts. One more thing you should explain: The text in the header claims that "The native form of this personal name is Kossuth Lajos. This article uses the Western name order." I challenge this unless someone produces his birth certificate. Why should a person of Slovak-German origin use Hungarian way of writing their name? Here, again, it smacks of false assumptions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leiduowen (talkcontribs) 02:30, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

@Leiduowen:,
sorry you seem an unexperienced user in Wikipedia yet, the one who is an expert has the necessary knowledge. I.e. Hungarian may be Magyar or any Hungarian citizen, the are not exclusive terms. I checked the link and did not found such that you pushed here, anyway it is a weasel, emotional POV pushing. I do not refuse acknowledge any fact. About the native form "challenge", the usage of name order is connected to the persons nationality, and Kossuth was Hungarian, so it does not smacks of false assumption.(KIENGIR (talk) 10:46, 4 December 2016 (UTC))

A barnstar for you![edit]

Minor Barnstar Hires.png The Minor barnstar
Thanks for clarifying Antun Vrančić :) Bojovnik (talk) 19:43, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
Thank you very much!(KIENGIR (talk) 21:59, 28 March 2017 (UTC))

April 2017[edit]

Stop icon with clock
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 48 hours for persistently making disruptive edits. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons why you should be unblocked, you may request an unblock by first reading the guide to appealing blocks, then adding the following text to the bottom of your talk page: {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}.  NeilN talk to me 22:42, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

As you persist in believing you were reverting vandalism, you can take this time to read WP:NOTVAND and hopefully stop with the disruptive accusations in the future. --NeilN talk to me 22:45, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

File:Orologio rosso or File:Orologio verde DOT SVG (red clock or green clock icon, from Wikimedia Commons)
This blocked user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who declined the request. Other administrators may also review this block, but should not override the decision without good reason (see the blocking policy). Do not remove this unblock review while you are blocked.

KIENGIR (block logactive blocksglobal blocksautoblockscontribsdeleted contribsfilter logcreation logchange block settingsunblockcheckuser (log))


Request reason:

Well, I read WP:NOTVAND. I am confused, since experiencing over hundred's of other user's edits in similar issues - let's say it like so - malicius aim edits may be easily noticed and we are meeting very often regarding Hungary related artciles, and noone ever was punished by such wordage. I consider @NeilN:'s decision utterly harsh just because I iniate and lead a discussion to properly undertood wikipedia rules [6], my last question was not even answered. Well I will avoid better the word "vandalism" in the future, but I feel totally injust just because I've made a constructive edit that was thanked, accepted by experienced users, and restored the page the proper content after the IP edits from an obviously false version (even not initiating a discussion or forgot to warn the IP about the 3RR) to have such punishment. I am shocked. Checking that in 1904 what was Hungary and Romania, and checking that the infobox should contain the contemporary official name, etc. would immediately show not my edits were NOT disruptive. NeilN's remark in the discussion that I would not have the first block, I don't think any history would have any connection to the current case, and if we read through the discussion on the ANI, everyone have to see that I have a good aim, I feel like NeilN would get angry of my questions...all in all, I learned from the case I have to be very careful about what words I use, but the tag "disruptive edits" especially the content I restored does not hold, since it is accurate and proper, as other approved and acknowledged (and anyone can verify it). The IP will laugh on us. KIENGIR (talk) 23:16, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Decline reason:

Your unblock request demonstrates that you still do not understand what vandalism is. On the one hand, you say you will avoid the label in the future, but at the same time, you clearly do not accept that what you called vandalism was not vandalism (you said you were "confused" by the policy and called the IP's edits malicious). Avoiding using the word in the future is a step in the right direction, but an actual understanding of when it applies and when it doesn't would be significantly better. Otherwise, you will be inclined to forget and use it when you shouldn't or you will use other words that mean the same thing but omit the word itself. Bbb23 (talk) 23:52, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

If you want to make any further unblock requests, please read the guide to appealing blocks first, then use the {{unblock}} template again. If you make too many unconvincing or disruptive unblock requests, you may be prevented from editing this page until your block has expired.

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This user's unblock request has been reviewed by an administrator, who accepted the request.

KIENGIR (block logactive blocksglobal blocksautoblockscontribsdeleted contribsfilter logcreation logchange block settingsunblockcheckuser (log))


Request reason:

@Bbb23:, well after I read WP:NOTVAND I think you have to agree I'll able to decide what is NOT a vandalism, at least, considering that the "inclined to forget" is not an option. As you and other's may see, I try to get common WP and it's rules more and more, noone could say I do not make an effort to be more and more professional, and I have always learned from the earlier cases, as you see once if I've made a mistake I've never commited it again. Like I've learned from this case. I feel very much hurt of such a sudden and harsh sanction although my aim was good regarding the factuality and accuracy of the article. I think at least this @NeilN: should have taken into consideration, and should have warned me to read WP:NOTVAND first and if after he would not see any improvement I'd understand such a harsh step. Thus I'd consider fair if at least my block would be reduced for 24 hours, if the general unblock was denied. This is my last unblock request in this issue, I don't wish to use more the template, but this issue really turned me upside down... KIENGIR (talk) 00:33, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Accept reason:

IP may have been incorrect, but it wasn't vandalism. You seem to be having difficulties distinguishing the two. Please tell me you understand the difference between bad and good faith edits. Because that is key here. That said, I see no harm in reducing the bock to 24 hours if the blocking admin doesn't object. El_C 01:00, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

@El C:, I don't know if my answer is proper here or it should be out of this template, I UNDERSTAND what is the difference, maybe I was influenced that recently in many Hungary related articles sockpuppet's are doing similar edits almost in every three days. I see I had to initiate a discussion on the talk page and make a warning of edit warring, and after the second revert of the IP a 3RR warning template. I had no idea that the Cluebot revert does not count. In practice, not necessarily we initiate discussions on the talk page of such kind of IP edits, however, it is advised regardless of the editor's being after any second revert. I know regardless of the type and aim of the edit, I have to follow WP:AGF and WP:AAGF and I should have explained the obvious reason to restore the article in the edit log. Thanks for your understanding!(KIENGIR (talk) 01:15, 5 April 2017 (UTC))
Maybe you were influenced by that. But every edit needs to be approached with good faith in mind. That said, AGF is not a suicide pact—you have to use common sense when an edit is malicious or not. The bot is just a bot, it can't know anything. It's not sentient and it suffers from false positives. You have to imagine that the IP thought they were being accurate, even if they weren't. Wikipedia is run by editors assuming the good intention of other editors. El_C 01:28, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

Background for reviewing admin: Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User_talk:80.116.134.46_reported_by_User:KIENGIR_.28Result:_Both_users_warned.29 --NeilN talk to me 23:22, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

Per your first unblock request you still consider the edits vandalism even after you read WP:NOTVAND. --NeilN talk to me 00:37, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

@NeilN:, as far as I know, being blocked I am allowed to use my userpage (better I write disclaimer in advance, before I'd run any further unexpected problem), so shortly my answer is:
I read carefully again my first unblock request, and I did not found such allegation or sentence that would confirm that "I would still consider the edits vandalism even after I read WP:NOTVAND"(KIENGIR (talk) 00:55, 5 April 2017 (UTC))

You called the IP's edits "an obviously false version" which is vandalism. I'm going try to explain what is vandalism again. Look at El C's comment in your report: "The city today is Romanian, it was Austro-Hungarian at the time of his birth. Full stop." Is it conceivable and understandable that the subject could be called Romanian? Yes, as it's also conceivable and understandable that the subject be called Hungarian, Astro-Hungarian, and American (all of these have been used in the article over the years). They are not "false" and changing to those is not a malicious attempt to obstruct or defeat our purpose here. They may be "less correct" from your point of view, but changes to those terms are not vandalism (as say, a change to "Peruvian" would be). Wikipedia has these controversies over nationalities all the time. See Wikipedia:Lamest_edit_wars#Ethnic_and_national_feuds for more notorious examples. --NeilN talk to me 01:06, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

(edit conflict)I was having difficulties understanding you, actually. Why did you think going on at such length would be be helpful in any way? Your broken grammar already makes you difficult to comprehend. And all admins care about anyway is that you learned your lesson, but you go on and on (about 1904, etc.). IP edits may have been incorrect but they weren't vandalism. Full stop. Please organize your thoughts in shorter staccatoes. El_C 01:10, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
@NeilN:, @El C:, I've just noticed you answers here, meanwhile I have answered already to El_C above....please give me a little time to read what you have written here, so I can react.(KIENGIR (talk) 01:19, 5 April 2017 (UTC))
Dear @NeilN:,
I really don't understand the term "obviously false version" why would be considered as "vandalism". Even if someone has a good faith edit, can commit mistakes. I have to tell you in advance I am a heavyweight professional regarding historical accuracy, especially regarding Europe, contemporary naming, status quo, nationality, ethnicity, citizenship, history and location, especially Hungary affairs. What @El C: has written is obvious, and "my version" is fully complies with it, and the wikipedia practice, the IP did not understood it for a reason. If you check carefully, the subject was not about that he is treated as Hungarian/Austro-Hungarian/American/Romanian, but multiple issues:
- 1. Infobox: the current status quo and naming at the time of birth
- 2. Lead: XXX-born (refers to the country where he was born, especially if he has a different ethnicity or later different nationality/citizenship
- 3. Core: the contemporary place of birth, by the indication of the present-day status quo (as per common WP practice)
What you listed above and treated as "conceivable and understandable: YES":
- "Romanian" is obviously false, since the subject does not have any connection to that country and have no Romanian ancestry or citzenship in his lifetime (similar case was the famous Hermann Oberth issue, that is solved a long time ago)
- "Austro-Hungarian" would refer better to a state of belonging or origin, but such nationality or citizenship never existed, since Austria-Hungary was a joint monarchy of two separate countries, that had separate citizenships and nationality (Austrian and Hungarian)
- "Hungarian" would be only proper until he held Hungarian citizenship, but with a remark he was ethnically a Danube Swabian, but as per WP practice his latest citizenship/nationality is decisive
- "American" is PROPER, as per the earlier mentioned.
Please notice that you may have confused nationality with the country of birth, since "Hungarian-born" - this is set much more longer I'd intervene the article - is proper, since he was born in Hungary, setting this to "Romanian-born" is obviously false.
Please notice also that I have a very-very long experince regarding nationality issues, I met with them every day, but this was not about this! The IP systemitcally eliminated the fact he was born in Hungary and eliminated anything that would refer to Hungary or Austria-Hungary, that was improper. El_C, sorry that I am long, but you have to see, I am fully precise and careful of my edits, I would not have been so long if i.e. NeilN right now would not have confused a nationality issue with a simple "country of birth" issue.(KIENGIR (talk) 01:45, 5 April 2017 (UTC))
We two also have "very-very long experience regarding nationality issues"—but that's not at issue. At issue is you calling vandalism edits that may have been made in good faith. The IP edits may not have been perfect, but they are not defacement, either. Next time, use the article talk page to challenge those edits. That's what you should learn from this. You go to the talk page and say 'dear IP, I disagree with your edits because of this and this and that.' That's what you should have done, not potentially scaring away a newbie by calling their edits vandalism. That was the wrong move. El_C 02:42, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
KIENGIR, you could probably shorten this discussion if you would just concede that your use of 'vandalism' in this April 3 edit summary was not correct. Your extreme confidence that you are correct about the factual matter is neither here nor there. We would like to hear that you will use the term 'vandalism' correctly in the future. EdJohnston (talk) 02:49, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
The fact you need to point out "you may have confused nationality with the country of birth" shows exactly why the edit was not vandalism. The IP, in good faith, could have easily not made this distinction. Look, someone can write "George Washington was an American-born...". It'd technically be incorrect, but no one would treat that as vandalism. As for "obviously false version" - you really do need to read WP:VANDALISM in its entirety. "Deliberately adding falsities to articles" is treated as vandalism. That is, writing "George Washington was a Jamaican-born..." would be treated as vandalism. --NeilN talk to me 03:06, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

─────────────────────────You need to convince us you understand what the three of us wrote to you directly above. I won't reduce your block without NealN's consent, and he is unlikely to consent, until you concede our collective point. To summarise, two things you should learn from this: 1. Using the article talk page is always a good idea for disputes. 2. Vandalism is about defacement and not editing in good faith, which you may have conflated for an innocent mistake. El_C 04:58, 5 April 2017 (UTC)

@EdJohnston:,@NeilN:,@El C:, I will use the term 'vandalism" correctly in the future. I checked WP:VANDALISM, I think the stress pattern is on the word deliberately, and so long regarding an edit it is not obvious, because it maybe was commited by a good faith mistake, or negligence or ignorance, etc. that cannot be judged as vandalism. Well, then I will use all the time the talk page after the second revert. I have also one more question, if I tell that i.e. "an edit set an obviously false version" why it would mean necessarily that I would have accused an editor of vandalism? Since I just made an observation, an outcome of an activity and I've defined the current state of the article, not the possible good/bad intention of the user. I.e. if a good faith edit by negligence would set that "Arnold Schwarzenegger is a Swiss-born actor" I cannot qualify the outcome with such words? Thank you all(KIENGIR (talk) 10:28, 5 April 2017 (UTC))
I've unblocked you. I suspect English not being your native language is a hindrance here. If you say something is obviously false you are heavily implying or outright stating the editor is deliberately adding false info to the article. Example: "David Bowie was the first man to walk on the moon" is obviously false -> vandalism. If an editor changes to something that's incorrect, but plausible, better to say "that was wrong". --NeilN talk to me 12:16, 5 April 2017 (UTC)
@NeilN:, Thank you very much! Yes, English is not my native language. So, especially "we" are aware of the scientific or computer language and what the words weight or count possibly in such environment, but not really sure what it would imply in a native Anglo-Saxon environment then. If I understood properly your argumentation, "heavily implying" or "outright stating" is likely to near over 90% percent that practically I would consider a deliberate background. Well, I learned then how to be careful with the words and their meaning not have even a suspect of misunderstanding.(KIENGIR (talk) 15:57, 5 April 2017 (UTC))

Warning about canvassing[edit]

You will post messages like these in English, or not at all. You are also very close to being blocked for canvassing. --NeilN talk to me 16:56, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Dear@NeilN:, I know WP:CANVAS policy, I did not harm any rule regarding this, since from one user I asked to check on the happenings and the discussion, and possibly tell his opinion, since I felt others may behave too rude with me. By the other user I draw the attention also to check on, similarly, but I did not made any adequate influence that they should edit the article in a certain way. "In general, it is perfectly acceptable to notify other editors of ongoing discussions, provided that it be done with the intent to improve the quality of the discussion by broadening participation to more fully achieve consensus.". Could you tell me why I am possibly near to block, is there any rule I don't know properly, or non-English messages are prohibited on user talk pages? Please clarify, I wish to fully comply with the rules. Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 17:54, 12 April 2017 (UTC))
WP:SPEAKENGLISH. "please look at it in the Laszlo Castle article and the recent edits and definitely the talk page. I do not want you to drag nowhere, an editor earlier grievances are very badly attacked for all sorts of reasons, real and imagined in the past, it is really just the precision and accuracy-controlled, which unfortunately is still a lot of historical issues" is not a neutral message for editors who have not previously edited the article. --NeilN talk to me 18:16, 12 April 2017 (UTC)
@NeilN:, well the possible google-translation is not totally accurate (it's usual regarding Hungarian, as well subjects and passive sentences), but I understood your concern. I will use English and in case I will work on much more intense on neutrality. I did not know that neutrality counts regarding earlier history, if it is not related to the current article's factual/debated/recent content.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:24, 12 April 2017 (UTC))
Thanks. This is why you need to use English. So other editors including admins can make sure appropriate language is being used. And it's much better to place a neutral notification on the talk page of a relevant wikiproject than to notify handpicked editors. --NeilN talk to me 18:33, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Geographic Names[edit]

Kiengir, please (PLEASE), try to avoid conflicts. I have avoided unnecessary changes in geographic names, I expect the same from your side. E.g. if the article is about the Battle of Trnava then I expect the consistent naming thought the article. The same applies for the Battle of Ilava, where there is a well established English name, the Hungarian form 'Illava' did not exist in the 15th century and there is not any reason to use contemporary variation (also in other articles we do not inspect in detail the contemporary variation of the name and we use e.g. Pressburg instead of Presburch. --Ditinili (talk) 05:13, 2 July 2017 (UTC)

@Ditinili:, I always try to avoid conflicts, now you were the one who initiated again one, from the middle of nowheere, partially unnecessary. The article could be easily renamed to Battle of Nagyszombat, it is a gesture if we like like as it is now, and the title of the article has not any conenction on naming, where basic standards are used. About the other article, I don't know why your repeat an already outdated thing, since I acknowledged the validity of Lewa, etc. You apparently use this thing the with the variations to claim any modern version, so that would be not Hungarian (in the first place). So please, have that flexibility and gestures that I also applied towards you recently. We also do no claim from 1920 in any Czechoslovakia, Slovakia articles Hungarian names on the fisrt place, but we respect Slovak names.(KIENGIR (talk) 10:07, 2 July 2017 (UTC))

Ibolya Korodi[edit]

Help me out here, perhaps? - Biruitorul Talk 02:56, 12 September 2017 (UTC)

@Biruitorul:, done, I hope...(KIENGIR (talk) 18:52, 12 September 2017 (UTC))

Jolie Gabor[edit]

Did you refer to the Talk Page debate on the relevant categories? I feel it would have been more wiki-like to add your comments there, before reverting after an appropriate interval, as I did. Valetude (talk) 23:22, 10 October 2017 (UTC)

@Valetude:,
as you see I did not revert everything, especially I left your modifications regarding the elimination of the "memoirist" matters. But to remove the rest is inappropriate a I did not see any reason for the in the talk page. About being "wiki-like", as you now the new changes should be argued and consensed for any modification in case, not the already existing version, especially if they are a long time stable. So as you see, I was totally objective, and in the end the relevant part of your consideration - having indicated in the talk page - was accepted also by me. Cheers.(KIENGIR (talk) 13:44, 11 October 2017 (UTC))

ArbCom 2017 election voter message[edit]

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The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

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2018[edit]

Happy New Year! Fakirbakir (talk) 12:41, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

Behaviour at Talk:Battle of Szina[edit]

Please be advise that I have raised the matter of the interaction of yourself and User:Ditinili at WP:ANI. Regards, Cinderella157 (talk) 02:08, 7 March 2018 (UTC)

Kiengedni es kiengesztelni[edit]

Az mas mint ez. Clean Copytalk 05:11, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Hi, the word "kiengeszni" I don't understand, it is not a regular Hungarian word and has no meaning...without I am afraid I'll unable to intrepret your message properly...(KIENGIR (talk) 10:01, 10 June 2018 (UTC))
Es most jobb? Clean Copytalk 10:19, 10 June 2018 (UTC)
You have to know as per agreement I have to speak English here. Of course the best is to understand each other...(KIENGIR (talk) 10:23, 10 June 2018 (UTC))
I see, "kiengesztelni"....yes, now I understand.(KIENGIR (talk) 10:24, 10 June 2018 (UTC))

The best way to ignore[edit]

You fell into his trap. This is his main purpose: a never ending debate about nothing. Borsoka (talk) 17:25, 4 July 2018 (UTC)

@Borsoka:,
well, from a longer time these activities in the corresponding page are suspicious...(KIENGIR (talk) 20:16, 4 July 2018 (UTC))
You are obviously in his trap. He provocates lengthy boring debates to prevent other editors from intervening or providing third opinion. I kindly ask you (=Könyörgöm) not to feed him. Borsoka (talk) 02:28, 5 July 2018 (UTC)

Max Hell[edit]

If you'd know the History of Hungary better you would know there was many etnics in Hungary. Thats mean nothing he was born in Hungary, there was many people in Hungary that time, who even didnt speak the Hungarian!! So i dont know Hell had Hungarian writings, i know his works only in Latin and German.

Ha ismernéd jobban Mo. történetét, akkor tudnád hogy ott rengeteg nemzetiség élt együtt. Légyszíves ne legyél okosabb nálam Mo. történetéről és egykori körülményeiről.

--Milei.vencel (talk) 13:28, 17 July 2018 (UTC)

@Milei.vencel:, I am sorry, you are wrong, I know there were many ethnics in Hungary, etc. Maybe you are not aware what "nationality" means, it is not necessarily equal with ethnicity. Nationality means "belonging to a nation", "self-declared nationality" and/or "citizenship" in modern terms. Hell was undoubtedly belonging to Hungary, declared himself Hungarian and he translated the Hungarian mining laws to German, so he had to know Hungarian. Btw., that time mainly everything was written in Latin or German.(KIENGIR (talk) 13:41, 17 July 2018 (UTC))

Tesla[edit]

Hi Kiengir. Here you are wrong when saying Tesla didn't have Hungarian citizenship. From 1867 Hungarian citizenship was given to all people living under Hungarian part of the empire. Here's something about it [7]. dab (𒁳) wrote it pretty correct. Tesla ,also living in Croatian part of the empire was given Croatian "local citizenship" (citizenship maybe not the right word, but I saw it was used in some sources). There's no evidence he had Austrian citizenship. What is written wrong in the article and repeated by many people is that Tesla gave out Austrian citizenship when taking American one. Austro-Hungary, a multiethnic and complex empire, to outside world had only "Austrian" citizenship for its people. This question is a bit too complex to what people want to do on this article. 89.164.227.237 (talk) 01:55, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

Hi @89.164.227.237:, I don't think I'd be wrong and if you checked carefully I discussed with Dbachmann then then the issue. Tesla had Austrian citizenship, as the official papers proved he resigned on that before aquiring U.S. citizenship and it is totally false that Austria-Hungary "to outside world had only "Austrian" citizenship for its people". Hungary had her own Hungarian citizenship, as always and never had anything common regarding this with the Austrians, as well dual citizenship was banned. There are blurry circumstances that cannot be decided right now, but what is sure the time Tesla had Austrian citizenship, he could not have Hungarian. It is also not evident that in 1867 Hungarian citizenship would be automatically granted outside Hungary proper (= w/o Croatia), since Law L in 1879 declared citizenship (állampolgárság) to be one and the same in all the Lands of the Hungarian Crown’ (§1). But even if so, Tesla had to resign or loose this to be an Austrian citizen, as he was before his immigration into the U.S.(KIENGIR (talk) 10:42, 29 July 2018 (UTC))
I'll try to find the source where I read all this what I said. 89.164.116.229 (talk) 20:49, 30 July 2018 (UTC)
Here's the source. Sorry it's on Croatian. It has a lot of references to the Austro-Hungarian laws so I can point to the reference if you would like to investigate yourself. [8] . On page 798 it says: "After 1867 there existed a distinct relation to the Empire...but also a separate relation to Austria or Hungary...Argumentation about distinct relation to Austro-Hungary, which was supported by Croatian authors, pointed to the Austro-Hungarian unique representation in foreign affairs and to the fact that the people of the Empire to the foreign states have appeared as a single political subject.". Sorry, but the paper slip where Tesla is resigning Austrian citizenship is a primary source. One has to be very careful when interpreting primary sources and I think that you got to the wrong conclusion. You are right that dual citizenships were banned, but that was only for "separate" citizenship. All people of the empire had "unique" citizenship that related them to the Empire as whole and that citizenship was used in foreign affairs. The question of citizenship in Austro-Hungary is a lot more complex that this. The source is dealing with this on 35 pages. It's very interesting. What's evident is that everyone here on Wikipedia is simplifying that question and relating the connotations the word citizenship has today with what it had in Austro-Hungary in 19th century. 89.164.132.7 (talk) 15:52, 31 July 2018 (UTC)
@89.164.227.237:,
Since I even cannot copy-paste to google translator this source and unfortunately I don't know Croatian, on my own a I won't reach much about that. What you cite does not contradict me. Outside, Austria-Hungary was regarded in whole, regradless it was only a joint monarchy, there was Austro-Hungarian foreign embassy, etc. However, when you entered the embassy, you immediately had to choose that you deal with Austrian or Hungarian affairs, and after that everything was separate. Regardless of the acceptance of the primary source, my conclusion is not wrong that way that in foreign affairs Austrian or Hungarian citizenship was used, respectively never a joint citizenship, a Hungarian citizen was alien to Austria, and vica versa, in all legal terms, but not even in the times of Austria-Hungary. but also before. It would be interesting to know more about the possible "local citizenship" regarding Croatia, or to know i.e. before 1879 how Croatians would appear (Austrian or Hungarian). What is sure, a Hungarian citizen never ever appeared as Austrian, inside or outside, and if Tesla would have an aquiration of Hungarian citizenship anytime, I am convinced Hungarians would know that. If he in any means got it by law, then generally it would apply to all citizens of Croatia-Slavonia. However a primary source sometimes are more valid than a secondary, i.e. if it is an official paper where Austria is written, then by no means it can related to Hungary, since the term Austria-Hungary was well known and used in the U.S. also, if it would not be the blatant fallacy of the U.S. administration by mistake, writing "Austria" instead of "Hungary" because they don't know i.e. which state is in Africa or in the Pacific Ocean and anyway it does not matter what they write just having the paper to be filled....(KIENGIR (talk) 20:42, 31 July 2018 (UTC))
I'll try to find an English source. From what I'm reading in this source the deal with citizenship in Austro-Hungary is a lot more complex. I don't think that Wikipedia can explain it fully within info-box and one or few words. The term "citizenship" as we know it today is a lot different than it was in 19th century Austro-Hungary. That's why I'm convinced that someone reading info-box is being mislead , but I don't know how to fix it...for now it seems the best to leave it as it is. If I find an English source I'll forward it to you. Cheers. 89.164.132.7 (talk) 00:14, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
[9] Here's something, although it doesn't rely to the point I made earlier. If you find it helpful...89.164.132.7 (talk) 00:39, 1 August 2018 (UTC)
I read the source, it does not change or would disprove my argumentation or that fact that many outcomes are possible, however regardless where you came from, between the period also before 1867 any person could obtain citizernship in many ways. To clear this, individual information is needed about especially Tesla. So long, we only can prove he had Austrian national citizenship...(KIENGIR (talk) 11:39, 1 August 2018 (UTC))

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are you from Jobbik party?[edit]

Do you belong to other Hungarians that are irredentist and chauvinists? Skyhighway (talk) 14:19, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

@Skyhighway:,
I am not from any party or belong "to other Hungarians that are irredentist and chauvinists", the real question would be where you came from since you are pushing in many cases misleading information tendentiously into several articles and you are ignoring many rules of Wikipedia, now your activity can be described unambigously as edit-warring. You will receive a warning for that.(KIENGIR (talk) 17:45, 27 September 2018 (UTC))
Reality is you present only a strong POV against Romanians. Why you hate Romania so much? Or your neighboring countries? Why can't you live in peace with others? With Slovaks you have the same attitudes, then Serbians as well. Why you hate them so much? Skyhighway (talk) 17:48, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
This is very true, you have to admit it: Hungarians hate basically every nation they share a border with.Skyhighway (talk) 17:53, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
@Skyhighway:,
Excuse me, I have to refuse what you say because it is not true, you were the one who made such changes that could also be described as a POV against Székelys/Hungarians. I don't hate Romanians or any neighboring countries, and please watch your words and don't state things that are not true! The rest of your questions have the same style, I living totally peacefully with others, and again, I don't hate anybody, better stop with your defamating accusations! I had attitudes? Excuse me what do you refer?
Furthermore, I have to refuse again you bad faith and negative aimed defamation a generalization of Hungarians, regarding your statement "Hungarians hate basically every nation they share a border with", and it is not even true, better you should investigate and check i.e. the relation of Romania with it's neighboring countries, and then i.e. you could make a comparison with Hungary regarding the level of relations and maybe you could gain some objectivity instead of overexaggerated accusations. Anyway, should you stop this negative behavior.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:01, 27 September 2018 (UTC))
You should read this:

Hungarians are very much like hobbits. A hard-working people with little knowledge about the outside world. We like to eat and drink, tend our little gardens, hang around in the pub and bitch about the shortcomings of each other, and especially the deadly sins of foreigners. Our foreign policy is traditionally awkward/nonexistent, and usually consists of elaborate historical arguments about how we are a very special nation and how much the outside world owes us for our heroic deeds in the distant past. We do have a spectacularly colorful and tragic history, full of grand visions, inner strife and failures, no wonder we feel a kinship towards Scots, Irish and Poles. Romanians are especially suspicious for us: after some centuries when we treated them like shit based on our greater strength and some very clearly false historical claims, we are genuinely shocked that for a century they treat us like shit based on their greater strength and some very clearly false historical claims. Ordinary people are easily misled to channel their general frustrations towards their neighbours instead of their corrupt and immoral leaders, and these two nations are true champions of this carefully generated and fueled ignorant hatred. And that is what you see from Poland to the Balkans: good-natured, warm-hearted people with a unique gift to enjoy life, full of natural hospitality - exploited, misled and forced to hate each other by their leaders. How similar we all are in Eastern Europe! It is a remarkable feat of politics and ignorance that we fought so many wars against each other. Will we ever realize that we are all brothers and sisters? Prehistoric man made a giant leap forward when he found that a community can include more than 15 people. We, Hungarians, Romanians and everyone else are still in the dark ages until we make the next cognitive leap and understand that this planet is one nation, one family, one organism. United we stand; divided we fall.

Skyhighway (talk) 18:03, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

@Skyhighway:,
I read it, and it contains many thing that are strong POV, or totally not true and even I don't know why you posted this to me or what connection it has to WP. It is not true i.e. that Hungarians would have "very little knowledge of the world", ot the foreign policy would be nonexistent. the statements like "we treated them like shit based on our greater strength and some very clearly false historical claims" are again false and contains havy exaggerations with an obscene language, etc.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:10, 27 September 2018 (UTC))
If you read it and that's your conclusion no wonder your posts, you're too indoctrinated. Skyhighway (talk) 18:13, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
You read this? Magyarization? Skyhighway (talk) 18:14, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
@Skyhighway:,
I warn you the last time to watch your words and style and stop bad faith accusations, I am NOT indoctrinated, and I know the Magyarization article as I am very experienced with Hungary-Romania related topics among many others. Anyway, your panels are quite familiar to me, usually such behavior is done of some "enthusiasts" who accuse the other side about what he/she is doing in reality and not properly are aware or informed/learned in these topics, excuse me.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:22, 27 September 2018 (UTC))
I only noticed your double standards. Why you try to hide the real number of Romani people in Hungary? You treat very bad your minorities even in 2018. Haven't learned the lessons. When Romani people living in Hungary will surpass 30% you will learn. Are you very experienced with Hungary-Romania related topics? You and your family could be a Romanian magyarised family at origin. Skyhighway (talk) 18:48, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
@Skyhighway:,
I don't have any double standards, and I "did not try to hide" anything, you may read in the edit logs and on the talk page what was the problem, it seems you still did not understand it, initially I did not even removed your edit I just corrected it's format, but you did not accept it so I had to bring it to the talk since this in accordance with the rules. What lessons I have not learned, or who? Sorry, such thing is not known if any minority would be treated unwell...I don't even know your reference in what connection could be with the demographic rate of the Romani people, that I certainly know? My family is not known to be a "Romanian magyarised family at origin". You should maintain some civility.(KIENGIR (talk) 19:01, 27 September 2018 (UTC))
The fact is that Matei Corvin was half Romanian and is considered and really was the greatest Hungarian king. An example. If you can admit this. Skyhighway (talk) 19:03, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
(edit conflict) (talk page stalker) Considering all these warnings I would be careful about throwing stones. - FlightTime (open channel) 19:11, 27 September 2018 (UTC)
@Skyhighway:,
I don't understand again what's the catch or you really don't understand some things, or have a problem of the interpretation of the language. Matthias Corvinus is considered to be the greatest King of Hungary, about the origin majority of the sources claim an ancestry for his father from Wallachia, thus Vlach ancestry, while some other source claim it more complex with possible Cuman or Petcheneg origins, still from Wallachia. Some claim from Transylvania.(KIENGIR (talk) 19:09, 27 September 2018 (UTC))
No. How easy you reject reality. He was Romanian. How easy for you to say he might be that or that but no, he was Romanian and that's it. Full stop. You lack arguments. Even if he was Romanian what do you have against this fact? You can't stand the truth? Who wrote that message above about Hu-Ro to stop warring was true. But you can't see the future, together. That's why that is a 19th century past mentality. You can't stand Romanians to be in EU and in NATO. You have to admit it. Skyhighway (talk) 12:14, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

Budapest GDP[edit]

Szia Kienger, hagy vagy te? https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Budapest&type=revision&diff=861354182&oldid=861341991 this is not good, please explain how much is GDP NOMINAL of Budapest and Hungary and how 141 billion came out from fantastic Jobbik world of lies you support?? Why you keep living in past Kienger? The specialist? Skyhighway (talk) 15:28, 28 September 2018 (UTC)

Unfortunately as I see with intelligent communication I am not able to reach much, I refuse your abusive and bad faith style and I see I have to ignore your abusive "questions" as well. Also, prejudicatiing and lying is a serious civility issue! I don't support any "fantastic Jobbik world of lies", this sourced content was not introduced by me, but at least I know and try to do my best regarding WP rules, that seems you don't understand still. You have to prove or demonstrate anything regarding a content you object, btw. there is already a discussion of the relevant talk page, so there is no need to write here.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:15, 28 September 2018 (UTC))
How much is GDP of Budapest? Don't avoid. Skyhighway (talk) 05:35, 29 September 2018 (UTC)

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Rewriting Magyarization topic[edit]

It is an official warning not to remove sourced content from articles. If you do not stop there would be request for admin intervention.--PsichoPuzo (talk) 11:24, 28 October 2018 (UTC)

@PsichoPuzo:, excuse me, you are the one who is initiating a massive rewrite without consensus, however I try to intergrate in the articles those valuable additions you have, but you use as well inappropriate sources. As well, be aware that with threats you don't achieve anything good, keep yourself to good faith and stick to the rules of our community, as administrators will do the same.(KIENGIR (talk) 11:29, 28 October 2018 (UTC))

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Ad personam[edit]

Thank you for your remarks. I kindly ask you to avoid making ad personam remarks, both positive and negative in the future. We should concentrate on the subject. We again lost the possibility to persuade third parties to get involved in the discussion, because nobody wants to read lengthy boring sentences praising or criticizing other editors. Borsoka (talk) 01:37, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

@Borsoka:,
I see, however becuause you personally proposed something, it could be hardly avoided not to mention you. If this is your wish, I would try to avoid to mention your name, in any means, but you have to agree in some cases it cannot be avoided (regarding other editors I cannot guarentee this). I don't think my comment would have been the longest, though I see the core of the subject proposed was limitated to the last pharagraph, but you have to see also on that NPOV noticeboard - where I did not participate with any comment - how lengthy, boring, eye-hurting, timpe-pulling, bldugeoning was with not any adequate result, even involved by third parties.
That's why I had to pinpoint to the editor - continously confronting you and "killing" your (and others) time from happy editing - that he is responsible for fundemantal issues because he does not wish to see/understand/comply how Wikipedia is working. He did not notice your kindness, wikietiquette, generosity and completely ignores, does not even know what consensus building is, etc.
Also it would be better for you/us to deal with someone who knows and respect the rules, this is also the subject inherently, I think with or without me also you cannot concentrate on the subject if an other editor is not aware of how the things working here. However, I'll promise I'll be more short as possible in the future, and you know that I appreciate your work on Wikipedia.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:04, 17 November 2018 (UTC))
I fully understand your motives. I only wanted to remark you that they (?) are playing this game on purpose. They take advantage of every possibility to make the discussion longer and longer.... Borsoka (talk) 01:59, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

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Thanks for your help on Randolph L. Braham article[edit]

Kindest regards, Robert Braham Shlishke (talk) 21:54, 28 November 2018 (UTC)

Shlishke, Thanks, sure!(KIENGIR (talk) 22:40, 28 November 2018 (UTC))

NEO-HUNS Kurultaj and proletarians[edit]

There is no turanist and Hun-believers among educated people. Just watch the Kurultáj event, 99% of the visitors are craftsmen. In old Hungarian (pre-1945) term was "aljanép", alsóbb néprétegek. ("lower classes" & "lower folks" Here is my opinion about prolee of Eastern Europe, I wrote it many years ago: http://prolivilag.blogspot.com/ But there is a good article about them here: http://demokrata.hu/velemeny/proli --Dwirm (talk) 15:17, 30 November 2018 (UTC)

@Dwirm:,
I already answered you in the talk page of he Huns.(KIENGIR (talk) 15:23, 30 November 2018 (UTC))

Javaslom Ablonczy Balázs (aki a téma kutatója az ELTÉ-n) Keletre magyar! c. könyvét. Kutatásaiból kiderült hogy a II.VH utáni turanizmus nagyon mássá alakult mint ami előtte volt. A modernebb napjainkban élő turanizmus (pláne a rendszerváltás után) összefoglalja (az egyébbként egymásnak ellenmondó) Hun-Sumér-Szkíta-Pártus-Türk-Etruszk áltudományos meséket. A turáni fogalom a rendszerváltás után tiszta gyűjtőnévvé vált. A lényege a finnugor ellenesség, annak ellenére hogy 1945 előtt a finnugor elmélet teljesen része volt a turanizmusnak. Minden ami áltudományosság a magyarok eredetével kapcsolatban összesűrűsödött benne. Szerencsére már az ELTE-n (is) oktatják a hagymázas fantasy alternatív elméletekről a hallgatókat: http://finnugor.elte.hu/?q=alterism --Dwirm (talk) 18:54, 6 December 2018 (UTC)

@Dwirm:,
you already posted this message at the Huns talk page, I read, why you repeat?(KIENGIR (talk) 23:20, 6 December 2018 (UTC))

No, you did not answer to this message, because it refutes your opinion. According to all researchers Hunnic origin theory merged with modern version of turanism in Hungary after 1945.--Dwirm (talk) 10:58, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

@Dwirm:,
nope, it is just your speculation, since you did not raised any question just sent an additional information, so I don't need necessarily to answer (and anyway I don't see any refute to my opinion). You demonstrated a viewpoint that is held by some circles, that's all. Anyway, it is marginal if one origin theory is merged later with other theories or if it has a history, when specifically not this is the subject.(KIENGIR (talk) 13:10, 7 December 2018 (UTC))

I showed you a scholarly opinion of experts, what you don't like to accept, you do not respect the scholars and their opinion, because you only respect your layman opinion. Than why do you want to edit encyclopedia? Why don't you write a blog, which can be the center of your layman opinion?--Dwirm (talk) 19:00, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

@Dwirm:,
I suggest you to quickly change tone and avoid groundless accusations like:
- "what you don't like to accept", "you do not respect the scholars and their opinion", "because you only respect your layman opinion" -> these are not true
Consequently, your following questions cannot be taken serious (though you care with blogs isn't it?). You are generating heavy prejudices, even accusing others what was not said, not willing to understand properly what I've written. It it's not clear read back, etc. (on the other hand, possibly you have a problem of interpretation of English, because I did not said after 1945 some theories did not change or similar, etc. I just said it is marginal if it is not the specific subject. The same way you propably misunderstood when I was writing "it is just your speculation", I referred to your ridiculous and fallacious thought "of not answering questions becase it would refute my opinion")(KIENGIR (talk) 22:38, 7 December 2018 (UTC))

I stated, that Hunnic theory belong to the turanism garbage in the post ww2, I provided references. What was your answer? "I don't like it, so I won't accept it". (Despite you don't have any proofs/references for your private opinion. How can we call this behavior?--Dwirm (talk) 12:17, 8 December 2018 (UTC)

@Dwirm:,
I did not answer such that you put into quotation marks. "Private opinion" was what you stated about "proletarians", a real fringe one. Better you should care about your behavior, since as we can see, it is a bit problematic, I don't see the reason to continue this discussion until you prefer defamations.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:24, 8 December 2018 (UTC))

I know your behavior since you appeared in English wiki. You had a notorious problem: You have never care about proofs and references, youst only about your private opinion, no wonder I mentioned the low -calss proletarian and proletarian descendant people, because it is their typical mentality.--Dwirm (talk) 08:37, 9 December 2018 (UTC)

@Dwirm:,
How could you know me, as a newbie user who as I see just registered here this year October? Anyway, I ask you the last time to stop lying and make such ridiculous allegations like "You have never care about proofs and references, youst only about your private opinion" it is totally false and untrue. Anyway, for your misfortune, I have no connection by any means to "proletarians" or they supposed mentality. Time to stop, you're getting by far! (KIENGIR (talk) 11:31, 9 December 2018 (UTC))

Huns and Turkic turanism is the same category. See Kurultáj event and the pseudo-historic teachings of Zsolt András Bíró (president of Hungarian Turan Foundation) Kurultáj is an event for people of "Hunnic Turkic identity" which is organized by Hungarian Turan Foundation.. Read about it: https://index.hu/tudomany/tortenelem/2014/06/19/a_turani_nyitas_politikaja/

Sándor Klára: Nyelvrokonság és hunhagyomány (részletek) https://olvassbele.com/2012/11/26/sandor-klara-nyelvrokonsag-es-hunhagyomany-reszletek/

"A turániság gondolata persze gyorsan elérte a magyar közgondolkodást, már csak azért is, mert a hun rokonságot komolyan már senki nem képviselte, az azt helyettesítő törököt sem lehetett már olyan lelkesedéssel hirdetni, mint akár egy-két évtizeddel korábban, a turáni dobozába viszont lényegében mindent be lehetett tuszkolni a finnugor mellé, törököt, japánt, hunt és szkítát. (…)"--Dwirm (talk) 13:49, 13 December 2018 (UTC)

@Dwirm:,
you did not answer my question. The fact some circles mix the two things together it does not necessarily mean they would be equal, and don't mix it with my personal acceptance or misuse it! I understand there are those who treat it that way as you say. Though I am heavily against any "Hunnic-Turkic" identity, since it is similar to that madness that pan-Turkists claim even inventing the fake "Hunntürkei" term and try to corrupt not just Atilla, the Hunnic Empire and almost all major ancient cultures to be Turkic! Let's close the issue finally!(KIENGIR (talk) 18:29, 13 December 2018 (UTC))

Comment of Scf1985[edit]

The user by mistake put his message in my user page, copied here:

"Hi, Kiengir. Not sure if this is how to talk to people on here, but regarding the issue on Monica Seles nationality, she did indeed play for Yugoslavia. However, Yugoslavia is a defunct country as you should know. Therefore, she is Serbian, not Yugoslav."

My answer:

@Scf1985:,
unfortunately your argumentation does not hold in a way, that she is a retired tennis player and his records are always historically assigned to the country she played for and existed that time, it cannot be projected to modern conditions, as it is never done as well here in Wikipedia.(KIENGIR (talk) 17:25, 9 December 2018 (UTC))

@Scf1985:

The user again replied in my userpage, instead of the talk page, copied again here:

"My argumentation holds 100%, because Yugoslavia is no longer a country. Why not refer to her as a 'Yugoslav-born retired tennis player' or 'a retired tennis player with American/Hungarian citizenship who represented the USA and FR Yugoslavia during her career. By referring to her as a Yugoslav, you are misleading people to believe 'Yugoslav' is still a nationality, which is factually incorrect."

My answer:

No your argumentation is problematic, since she represented Yugoslavia, she was a Yugoslavian tennis player. Yugoslav would be today also a nationality? I doubt it. Regarding other possible other rephrasing, seek consensus on the article's talk page.(KIENGIR (talk) 23:10, 9 December 2018 (UTC))

Hopefully, I've finally mastered how to talk to you properly on here, not that it's clear cut.

Why is my argument problematic? Yugoslavia is factually defunct, therefore no-one can be refered to as Yugoslav. Yes, she represented Yugoslavia, and if you feel the need to note this, this is fine, but you are referring to her as 'Yugoslav' in the present tense, which is misleading and incorrect. Her stats representing the former FR Yugoslavia are stated elsewhere on her Wiki page and I have tried to meet you halfway by changing her edit to 'American and Yugoslav-born', which is more clarifying, yet you seem absolutely determined to have her referred to as an 'American and Yugoslav' as if it's in the present tense. I don't know whether you're bitter that your former country has dissolved into tiny little pieces, and this is your way of hanging onto any Yugoslav nostalgia, but your wording is wrong. I'm going to make one final edit in some hope we can finally agree to wording that we both agree on, but I'm not going to make any more modifications after this as I have a life. RIP Yugoslavia.

@Scf1985:,

please sign your comment also.

1. I have zero personal involvement of feeling towards this edit, as I have do not have neither bitter, nor nostaligia feeling or whatsoever

2. My wording is not wrong - and anyway was not my wording, it was before there -, on the other hand in Wikipedia we identify the sport nationality on the top first, and that was Yugoslav and American.

3. I'd suggest you do not make any further changes to the article without reaching consensus on the article's talk page

Cheers.(KIENGIR (talk) 10:25, 10 December 2018 (UTC))

Still insisting that Monica Seles is Yugoslav in the present tense? And obviously insisting so? Either you are a 24-carat prat or you have mental difficulties — Preceding unsigned comment added by Scf1985 (talkcontribs) 09:06, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

I don't know what you are talking about, please avoid personal attacks in the future. Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 23:30, 17 December 2018 (UTC))

Romania[edit]

Right, I do agree with Michael the Brave. Just hoping your edits are objective and neutral for both Hungarians and Romanians. This is the difference between a simple user and a historian. Even if you don't agree with some things, you should not remove the universal point of views.

@Cristina neagu:,
sure, I struggle for maximum accuracy & maximum neutrality, as always, just feel free to check it anytime. Regards.(KIENGIR (talk) 17:32, 18 December 2018 (UTC))

Boldog Karácsonyt![edit]

Merry Christmas Card.png Merry Christmas! Boldog Karácsonyt!
Many thanks for your kind words, Merry Christmas/Boldog Karácsonyt! Mentatus (talk) 20:45, 24 December 2018 (UTC)

Army Flag of Austria-Hungary[edit]

Imperial Standard of Austria-Hungary (Before 1915).svg

Hi, the navy used the red-white-red war ensign, but the army used this flag --->
So I dont know what becomes of that situation... But wouldn't then the "national flag" be used instead of the civil ensign? I mean, we use the national flag for all other countries. The German Empire uses its flag and not the Reichskriegsflagge (outside of Naval context, like how the naval ensign is used for AH now), for example?
Btw, I updated my sandbox example to use both Coats, opinions?--Havsjö (talk) 23:40, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

@Havsjö:,
1, is any further approval that the army used this flag ("Imperial Standard (?)" would mean that? I tried to click on the source presented inthe details of the image, but the url was blank....)
2, Infobox in your sandbox looks nice :) (regarding the so-called "national flag" I react on the talk page of the article.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:01, 5 February 2019 (UTC))

https://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ah%5E.html here is some info about it, it also said on the flag section on the AH page that "the regiments of the k.u.k. Army carried the double-eagle flags they had used before 1867, as they had a long history in many cases." The Red-White-Red flag is a Naval/War Ensign, not a full blown "war flag" such as that for the Italian Social Republic--Havsjö (talk) 00:11, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

@Havsjö:,
I see though the linked article does not explicitly say it was also used by Austro-Hungarian War times, though regarding the description you cited from the article it could be also true...I tend to accept this but then we should as well in any military context use consistently next to it the "Naval ensign 1786–1918" and "Royal Hungarian maritime ensign", I mean if in the corresponding article it is specified in any place or the article itself are denoted for strictly naval battles or Hungarian battles, the latter two should be used instead of the new one you presented.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:28, 5 February 2019 (UTC))

The thing is, countries (and especially european countries) in these times did often have a naval ensign, which was almost treated on the same level as the "national flag" (a concept that was not as common at this time either, with flags not always being as "defined" as today) A good example of this is the Russian Empire, with its many messy flags (red-white-blue, white-yellow-black, the imperial yellow with black bird) and very common usage of its Naval Flag (white with a blue X) (a mess further expanded on on the Russian version of that page and http://www.vexillographia.ru/russia/index.htm (the russian version of it, anyway)). Anyway, the Naval flag of AH (like the Reichkriegsflagge of Germany) were quite defined as the flags of their Navies, while the army did not have such an "definitive" war flag equivalent but used more heraldic banners such as the one to the right. (i.e. its not like the Flag of Italian Social Republic, which had a clear regular and war variant. So I do not think it the army flags should be included among the civil/naval ensigns on the AH page, perhaps on a separate section under the Austrian/Hungarian/Croatian flags would be fitting? Anyway, you can also see on the AH talk page my words about the national/civil flag regarding military topics.--Havsjö (talk) 00:39, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

@Havsjö:,
I thought you want to use the flag you introduced here instead of the civil ensign used on war pages involving AH, isnt it?(KIENGIR (talk) 00:47, 5 February 2019 (UTC))
Not really, the flag of the armies of 1800's europe is very complicated usually and there is not "single flag" for the military/army. I explained a bit more on the AH talk page. and we should probably keep talking there to avoid a big mess of 2 conversations, my bad!)--Havsjö (talk) 01:04, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Arbitration enforcement[edit]

Please see this AE request. Cealicuca (talk) 16:15, 8 February 2019 (UTC)

I think you should've spent your time more in a more precious way. You brought up old cases that were already discussed and settled, should they have good or bad result towards me, I've always taken the responsibility and learned from them, as my goals are benevolent to build a better, more precise encyclopedia with the best valid information possible. But the way you do things smell from a clear malevolent aim, as it is clearly apparent recurrently in your request. Although I never did to you anything bad, on the contrary, i.e. when you contested me once more times about the mistaken sentence about the rivers names and the etymologies, even the original nominator agreed and acknowledged the mistake and the fact I had sharply and precisely right, the same time I never abused any edit of yours that was in order. Great disappointment! (KIENGIR (talk) 20:40, 8 February 2019 (UTC))

Copyright problem on Hungarian Americans[edit]

Content you added to the above article appears to have been copied from http://immigrationtounitedstates.org/560-hungarian-immigrants.html. Copying text directly from a source is a violation of Wikipedia's copyright policy. Unfortunately, for copyright reasons, the content had to be removed. Regardless of the copyright issue, that webpage doesn't appear to be a reliable scholarly source. Content you add to Wikipedia should be written in your own words. Please leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions. — Diannaa 🍁 (talk) 13:39, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Answer[edit]

I have reverted! --T*U (talk) 20:34, 3 April 2019 (UTC)

Thanks on Braham edits and watching[edit]

Thanks on Braham edit, and watching, as always---Shlishke

Ps i added this by accident as an edit, now making more work for you to remove . :( *sigh* Shlishke (talk) 17:46, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Svatopluk's original name or identity[edit]

I am just curious what is not clear on Svatopluk's original name or his identity. The name, recorded by numerous Latin and Old Slavic sources is a standard contemporary type of name and it is easily comprehensible.--Ditinili (talk) 07:40, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

@Ditinili:, once I met an interesting work that claimed a bit alternatively as it is believed or mainly accepted, similarly other things I referred in this period. It did not mean a complete questioning, better an alternative explanation and causation of the events.(KIENGIR (talk) 09:11, 17 April 2019 (UTC))
Could you tell me the name of the work? The name is absolutely transparent - the composed Slavic name (typical for Slavic elites) Svętě-pъlkъ, both parts are common Slavic lexemes, denasalized and vocalized to Svatopluk, Svätopluk, Sviatopluk by well known changes in Slavic languages.--Ditinili (talk) 10:39, 17 April 2019 (UTC)
@Ditinili:,
Not right now. Once if I'll take care and check the issue again (I have to search for a book), will let you know.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:11, 17 April 2019 (UTC))
Kiengir, if you read some book of unknown quality and you do not remember the name and/or the author then you should not make mysterious references to such "research".--Ditinili (talk) 04:02, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
@Ditinili:, there are too many conjunctive "if" and prejudicative assumptions in your sentence. Hopefully once we may make the issue clear.(KIENGIR (talk) 09:07, 18 April 2019 (UTC))
OK. If you are unable to clarify your comment and you also don´t rember the source, we can close the issue.--Ditinili (talk) 12:01, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
@Ditinili:, it is just a temporary "unability", practically from more thousand pages of material read I cannot recall just on demand everything instantly. When I'll have the chance, will let you know.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:11, 18 April 2019 (UTC))
Maybe, you can summarize the main idea... The theory that the original name of Svatopluk was not Svatopluk sounds interesting.--Ditinili (talk) 12:59, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
@Ditinili:, unfortunately that main idea I cannot recall now, I read it more years ago...(KIENGIR (talk) 14:34, 18 April 2019 (UTC))
No comment. --Ditinili (talk) 14:56, 18 April 2019 (UTC)
OK. If I'd be a machine with a gigantic memory, I could recall it quickly. Until I'll have just human capabilities.(KIENGIR (talk) 15:21, 18 April 2019 (UTC))
You don't have to be a machine, On the other hand, it is not reasonable to refer to a theory for which you do not know the source, the author, or what it is about,--Ditinili (talk) 05:33, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
@Ditinili:, I understand your motive, it is the best when all the information is present at once, though lacking such details it does not necessarily mean there would not be an issue, as in a general way we know controversies in some fields or timelines. Sorry for any inconvenience, I would be eager on the details similarly.(KIENGIR (talk) 10:35, 20 April 2019 (UTC))

TURANISM ARTICLE[edit]

Why did you restore the non-related Habsburg oppression parts of the text? It has nothing to do with turanism, since these harsh Germanization and neo-absolutist centralization attempts were equally forced in non-Hungarian (Polish, Italian Czech etc..) territories too. So it has nothing to do with linguistic theories like turanism. It would be better to move it to the Germanization article, maybe as "Germanization in Kingdom of Hungary" section.--Draguler (talk) 08:51, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

@Draguler:,
so more detailed, I just restored a little part of the original content, that emphasized that Hasburgs had an influence on that period - that cannot be ignored or denied -, not going into the details or the debate on what degree and how much would it affect necessarily any theory. Completely we should not ignore, it may be part of any article that discusses any similar or relevant topic in the context.(KIENGIR (talk) 09:22, 15 May 2019 (UTC))

There are no scholars in Hungary, who take seriously the Habsburg conspiracy theory against turkic linguistic kinship, there are no proof for that, even the deleted text couldn't prove it, despite the writer tried to support his conspiracy theory, which was invented only in the 1970s. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, There is metapedia org for fantasies and conspiracy theories. Every modern pseudo-scientific theory (let it be related to science & technology or history) contains also a conspiracy theory for less educated gullible people. They must address the the question, why do the real scholars (university teachers and researcher scholars/scientists) reject their fantastic theories, their usual answer can have two types. First type (A): The scholars/scientists are all stupid globally, they don't know what they do. (very few people believe that answer.) Second type (B): The scientists and scholars globally conspired against the "truth", because of various reasons (they are evil...anti-Hungarian anti - XXXX , or they were bribed (globally) by the Jews, the Freemasons etc...

The deleted parts belong to the Type B reasoning.--Draguler (talk) 12:19, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

@Draguler:,
what remained is good sourced (including academic and quality sources as well) and having mostly solid and general satements), so for any further claim please turn to Wikiproject Hungary, involving more people may result in more broad feedback.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:39, 15 May 2019 (UTC))

Wrong. In such case, it does not matter if it is sourced or not, it is a clear off-topic theme, and he try to use off-topic references to make a feeling that the Habsburg conspiracy is true. None of his own sources support the Habsburg conspiracy. I can write countless well sourced (And off-topic thees) sentences in any article. As I said, it belongs to the Germanization article or the 19th century Hungarian history. --Draguler (talk) 18:54, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

@Draguler:,
as I asked earlier, please take this to Wikiproject Hungary and gain consensus there. Thank You.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:59, 15 May 2019 (UTC))

Disambiguation link notification for May 24[edit]

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Twinkle[edit]

Hey, i saw your reverts at Khazars, have you considered to use Twinkle ? It should be useful. If you need any help in order to use it, please let me know. Best regards.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 22:11, 2 June 2019 (UTC)

@Wikaviani:, hi, well since a time I considered about the subject, instead of one click to undo not appropriate/useful edits, but I ended up to apply once rollback rights, instead of having a supplementary tool. Already having a watchlist with more thousand pages, but I had a little time to care about the application. If you have any further recommendation just tell me, Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 19:46, 3 June 2019 (UTC))
Thanks for taking the time to read and reply me. It seems that you're already aware of many stuffs on Wiki. Take care.---Wikaviani (talk) (contribs) 19:50, 3 June 2019 (UTC)

AustrianFreedom[edit]

Hi Kiengir, would you mind going through R.Saringer's edit history and undoing the damage hes caused? I notice you must be a to undo multiple edits and he made a lot. There's also an IP that was also blocked. Thanks--Ermenrich (talk)

@Ermenrich:, done. regarding the Sonja Veselinović article I did not do anything, I was unable to decide at once what I should restore to, since from the beginning it was mainly edited and created by the correspondent user. Thus this one please check yourself, the rest I did. Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 15:19, 9 July 2019 (UTC))

The revert[edit]

It was mistake sorry about that --Shrike (talk) 15:00, 12 July 2019 (UTC)

Sure.(KIENGIR (talk) 17:00, 12 July 2019 (UTC))

Reverted change[edit]

Hello KIENGIR!

I saw you undid my modification here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-Europeans#Andronovo

The paper seems to state clearly that the majority were light-eyed and that 25 not 26 specimens were tested: "...the typing of a SNP associated to eye color (rs12913832) shows that at least 60% (15/25) of the Siberian specimens had blue (or green) eyes...".

Link to the paper: https://www.podgorski.com/main/assets/documents/Keyser_2009.pdf

Thanks for your attention! Ferdinand Karl (talk) 13:03, 14 July 2019 (UTC)

Thank You as well!(KIENGIR (talk) 18:35, 14 July 2019 (UTC))

Edits in Art Nouveau article[edit]

Hello,

you were involved in reverting the changes of Art Nouveau article. To publicly discuss the reasons why I created, you reverted and another users dismisses the changes I created the section of the talk page: Talk:Art_Nouveau#Links_to_pages_of_Wikis_in_other_language

Please add your opinion if you have anything to add to the already described position of mine. Improver 03 04 (talk) 17:29, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

I opened the debate about the structure of Secession subsections and invite you to take part at Talk:Art_Nouveau(as you were involved in editing these subsections). Improver 03 04 (talk) 14:23, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

July 2019[edit]

Information icon Hello, I'm Mr. Guye. I wanted to let you know that one or more external links you added to Turul have been removed because they seemed to be inappropriate for an encyclopedia. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page, or take a look at our guidelines about links. Thank you.  — Mr. Guye (talk) (contribs)  05:31, 25 July 2019 (UTC)

@Mr. Guye:,
I did not add any link to the article, I just reverted a bold edit. I did not know that information you presented in the edit log. Thank You.(KIENGIR (talk) 06:56, 25 July 2019 (UTC))

Bias on Central Europe[edit]

You seem to post in a matter that appears biased rather than that of a neutral point of view. On the page Central Europe, you removed my edits made regarding the updated Human Globalization Index, Legatum Prosperity Index, and Corruption Perceptions Index. Futhermore, you removed the Baltic states, which are part of Mitteleuropa, yet deliberately leave Balkan states like Croatia and Serbia. You then tell me a consensus must be reached, yet no consensus was reached at all regarding incorporating Croatia and Serbia in the definition in the first place. Either the Baltic states (Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia) and the two Balkan states - Serbia and Croatia stay in the definition, or by default all must get removed. You cannot cherry-pick your own definitions based on your own personal view. That is not how Wikipedia works and operates. Please take your concerns, questions, etc. to the talk page rather than reverting my edits of good faith and engaging in a one-sided bias. Thank you. -185.41.130.3 (talk) 13:03, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Please stop with groundless accusations, there is no "one sided-bias/cherrypick/personal view", there are WP policies (WP:BRD, WP:CONSENSUS) that you systematically ignore (thus you should not make such statements you would know how WP works), discuss those details with that user who as well reverted you twice. As well warning me of entering to the talk page cannot be taken serious, since I was the one who asked you to do this, and I immediately entered there. My revert was legal, per BRD. Mentioning WP:AGF means that should at least follow the policies you offer two others, since you as well harmed this principle by many prejudicative, improper accusations against me.(KIENGIR (talk) 18:24, 29 July 2019 (UTC))

Notice of edit warring noticeboard discussion[edit]

Information icon Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there is currently a discussion involving you at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring regarding a possible violation of Wikipedia's policy on edit warring. Thank you. -185.41.130.3 (talk) 13:21, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Edit warring#User:KIENGIR reported by 185.41.130.3 (Result: ). Thank you, EdJohnston (talk) 15:12, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

G. Kubatov[edit]

You undid my edition (about his Azerbaijani background). I found it's here: https://prabook.com/web/gabor.kubatov/2325420. If this is reliable source, I'll add it to the article. Also it seemed for me obviously, that "Kubatov" not a Hungarian surname (in Azerbaijani wiki also indicated, that he is from their origins. Unfortunately, without any link). But if this source not counted as reliable, I'll leave it as you done. With the best regards,--Noel baran (talk) 05:27, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

P.S. Also here, but maybe also not too serious: https://hvg.hu/velemeny.nyuzsog/20151110_Legyen_itt_is_Kanada

AustrianFreedom[edit]

I've started a [investigation]. I would still suggest you contact an admin, as that usually speeds things up.--Ermenrich (talk) 14:17, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

The IP's been blocked for a week. Apparently they don't do checkusers on IPs, but it does get a faster response than when you don't ask for one. We'll see if he comes back.--Ermenrich (talk) 15:57, 12 August 2019 (UTC)

I have a question[edit]

Greetings. I've noticed that you're my main collaborator in working on the Battle of Transylvania article. Thankyou for your help. However, given that you seem to be closely monitoring my progress, I do have a question. Who should I put first in the infobox: Germany or Austria-Hungary? Two of the three Romanian armies were fought off by Germany, but the Austro-Hungarians apparently had the larger numbers among the two Central Powers. So, who's first in the infobox: the one who did the most or the one who had the most numbers? I personally incline to the former, hence why I put Germany first. Transylvania1916 (talk) 07:52, 15 August 2019 (UTC)

Hi @Transylvania1916:,
sure, gladly. Well to your question, you listed two aspects how it may be seen...now I list a subjective one - as the two of yours - that Kingdom of Romania attacked Hungary at first glance, thus Austria-Hungary (of course, with this move, as well the Central Powers), so it may be put as well on the first place...however, if we wish to ignore all possible subjective viewpoint, then the most neutral is - and this resolved as well many other issues - to apply the alphabetical order, thus noone can charge any of us we favor any part because of any reason. Regards(KIENGIR (talk) 21:27, 15 August 2019 (UTC))
Alright then, I put Austria-Hungary first in the infobox, but at the commanders section I left the German one first. Because, as I wrote and cited in the "Aftermath" section, it was the Germans who had overall command. In any case, I am pretty much done with the article. If I do find more interesting related stuff, I will add next week. Unfortunately I won't be able to edit over the week-end. Thus I request from you: please show this article to peer reviewers, spell checkers and the like, because I want it to be as good as possible, and I don't think I can achieve that by myself, especially given my lack of experience on the Wiki. Even though Google Books offers only a preview of the main book I used, I found means to largely amend that. By using different browsers and different devices, I've managed to ultimately get all about the Battle of Transylvania, apart from a few pages relating to the Battle of Brasov and the last page, page 126. If there are any overall casualties mentioned, or any official date for the end of the battle, it should be there, beyond my reach. Yet another reason to contact other users, so maybe they can complete the article besides reviewing it. I made my account after making sure I could get 90% of the information. I'm done overall with the article, please spread about it to other users so we may get additional help. Regards. Transylvania1916 (talk) 04:26, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
@Transylvania1916:,
Ok, will do, best regards.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:31, 16 August 2019 (UTC))

Since there is no such thing as an "Aryan Race" I think the lead should make that clear[edit]

Hello, I am very concerned that the entry on Aryan Race supports (perhaps unintentionally) the false claim that there is such a thing as an "Aryan Race."

Here is what another Wiki page has to say on the subject of Race.

"A race is a grouping of humans based on shared physical or social qualities into categories generally viewed as distinct by society.[1] The term was first used to refer to speakers of a common language and then to denote national affiliations. By the 17th century the term began to refer to physical (phenotypical) traits. Modern scholarship regards race as a social construct, an identity which is assigned based on rules made by society. While partially based on physical similarities within groups, race is not an inherent physical or biological quality.[1][2]

"Social conceptions and groupings of races vary over time, involving folk taxonomies[3] that define essential types of individuals based on perceived traits. Scientists consider biological essentialism obsolete,[4] and generally discourage racial explanations for collective differentiation in both physical and behavioral traits.[5][6][7][8][9]

As it stand now the page could have been written by a White Supremacist. I am sure we all want to avoid that impression. Since there is no such thing as an "Aryan Race" I think the lead should make that clear.

Chip.berlet (talk) 02:00, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

@Chip.berlet:,
Hi, you shouldn't have worried, I checked other articles about races (shall it be considered outdated or not), and I did not see such you introduced.(KIENGIR (talk) 20:34, 17 August 2019 (UTC))

Using Nazis as source of history for Poland[edit]

Please do not reintroduce work based on well known Nazis publications. This is simply not acceptable on Wikipedia,you are free to use other sources but Kuhn was well known Nazi activist who advocated genocide of Poles, his works are not reliable.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 21:59, 18 August 2019 (UTC)

MyMoloboaccount, please review Talk:Middle High German#The dtv-Atlas is now a contentious Nazi publication?. It is not a Nazi publication, it is BASED on a respected postwar publication.--Ermenrich (talk) 22:12, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
Read on Walter Kuhn, Nazi advocating genocide of Poles and involved in propaganda. Unacceptable and unreliable source.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 22:18, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
It is the de:dtv-Atlas. Acceptable and reliable.--Ermenrich (talk) 22:20, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
Nope, it a well known Nazi Walter Kuhn who advocated German supremacy and genocide of other nations.--MyMoloboaccount (talk) 22:21, 18 August 2019 (UTC)
Dear @MyMoloboaccount:,
Your argumentation is not profesionnal, based on a repetitive flaw, because again, in WP the judge respected works reliability, not the author's other charachetristic (thus, repeating n times of Kuhn's stance of Nazism and other ideologies is useless). Do you think i.e. Philipp Lenard and his scientific work is void because he was sympathizing with the Nazis? Are you serious? @Ermenrich: has right, you are talking about potato, he is talking about apple.(KIENGIR (talk) 22:41, 18 August 2019 (UTC))
@Ermenrich:, to your attention ([10]).(KIENGIR (talk) 23:02, 18 August 2019 (UTC))

August 2019[edit]

Hello, you may stop doing unconstructive and disruptive contributions on Treaty of Campo Formio. The treaty in itself obeys strict conventions rules: the depositary is the French Republic, the text in French making authority over any other versions. The document is formally registered as "Treaty between the French Republic and Austria". As such the Monarch of the HRE and the Kingdoms of Bohemia and Hungary was depositary of the authority on the Austrian territories and its monarchy. This treaty is based on facts and not historical interpretations.

So, again : stop introducing false and subjective information on a subject you don't seem to understand.

Regards. CocoricoPolynesien (talk) 11:13, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

@CocoricoPolynesien:,
I am not doing any unconstructive and disruptive contributions excuse me, but professional contributions. The fact how the documents is "formally registered" does not override between which parties the treaty has been made, in written (of course we may mention it how it is registered, etc.). What you said for Bohemia is true, fro Hungary not, as it has been a separate kingdom and country, having only a Habsburg King. This treaty is based on facts and not historical interpretations -> that's why it is obvious that the treaty and the whole conflict was not just beetween Austria proper, but the whole Habsburg Monarchy, and you've got enough clue in the edit log as well, that you unfortunately did not take into account entirely.
Thus, please in the future ignore such inappropriate comments like "So, again : stop introducing false and subjective information on a subject you don't seem to understand."
Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 11:25, 22 August 2019 (UTC))
"professional contributions": if that were true, you would have conserved the original title. "Professionals" do not under any circumstance alter historic information. You response definitely confirmed you don't understand the subject. The Monarch that reigned over the Austrian territories was titled Emperor of the Romans and King of Bohemia and Hungary, don't know what the fact Hungary was a separate kingdom comes there. "that's why it is obvious": that isn't and it not up to you to make such claim. You need proof that do not contradict the treaty to claim that. Last thing : the territories concerned by the treaty are all qualified of Austrian in the treaty. The armies involved are qualified of French and Austrian. The treaty directly referred to the Archduke and the Archduchess. Those are facts. CocoricoPolynesien (talk) 11:51, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
@CocoricoPolynesien:,
I kindly ask to drop inappropriate accusations and better seek some information before you dare to say again I would not understand the subject or anything else:
- do not under any circumstance alter historic information -> I altered to amore accurate information (and as I told, that is different how the treaty may referred by some parties or what is in the treaty in fact)
- you response definitely confirmed you don't understand the subject -> Nope, boomerang....
- The Monarch that reigned over the Austrian territories was titled Emperor of the Romans and King of Bohemia and Hungary -> This we agree, having that Hungary was not an "Austrian territory", but ruled by the Austrian Branch of the Habsburgs
- Last thing : the territories concerned by the treaty are all qualified of Austrian in the treaty. -> It does not mean the party was not the Habsburg Monarchy as Austria was the nucleus of it.
- The armies involved are qualified of French and Austrian. ->It was the Habsburg Army, including those 10 000 Hungarians the French captured.
- The facts are the signing party was the representant of the Habsburg Monarchy, that you also did not deny by your edits.(KIENGIR (talk) 12:11, 22 August 2019 (UTC))
You altered, full stop, this shouldn't happen on Wikipedia: this an encyclopedia referenced with reliable sources. "ruled by the Austrian Branch of the Habsburgs": which is the Austrian Monarchy. "does not mean the party was not the Habsburg Monarchy": where in the document does it mean that this is indeed the whole Habsburg monarchy ? Nowhere unfortunately. "It was the Habsburg Army": they are not referred to as such, you are interpreting, once again. "was the representant of the Habsburg Monarchy": It isn't written that at all. The signatory represent the Monarch reigning over the Austrian territories. Golden rule: do not interprete historical documents, especially if you do not know the whole context in which it was written.
So, given your comments, I higly doubt you read the document, and if so, understood it.
Regards - CocoricoPolynesien (talk) 13:35, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
@CocoricoPolynesien:,
it seems you are newbie editor with less experience, again please drop such inapropriate statements like "full stop" or similar that does even fit to the context or the framework of the events and the discussion, at the same timpe please do not teach me about WP's core content policies after near 9 years of experience.
- Read back again it if was not clear; noone said there was not an alteration, the question was to what
- "ruled by the Austrian Branch of the Habsburgs": which is the Austrian Monarchy. -> which the Hasburg Monarchy, also called sometimes as Austrian Monarchy
- where in the document does it mean that this is indeed the whole Habsburg monarchy -> where it is mentioned in the document that it is a peace treaty between the French Republic and Austria? Then why you don't change the Habsburg Monarchy wikilink to something less?
- "It was the Habsburg Army": they are not referred to as such, you are interpreting, once again. -> as you should know, it is a general knowledge of the subject, what we speak of is the (Habsburg) Imperial Army, it is not my interpretation but a basic fact. Never heard about it?
- "was the representant of the Habsburg Monarchy": It isn't written that at all. -> Is Austrian Monarchy written?
- The signatory represent the Monarch reigning over the Austrian territories. -> Then why don't you change the linking to Archduchy of Austria then?
- Golden rule: do not interprete historical documents, especially if you do not know the whole context in which it was written. -> if you knew the whole context, why you are recurrently contradicting yourself?
Regards.(KIENGIR (talk) 13:54, 22 August 2019 (UTC))
"it seems you are newbie editor with less experience, again please drop such inapropriate statements like "full stop" or similar that does even fit to the context or the framework of the events and the discussion, at the same timpe please do not teach me about WP's core content policies after near 9 years of experience." Maybe now will be the right moment to read again those policies you didn't fully understood. Given your past history that can be seen on this talk page, I think I'm helping you. However, if you continue making such statement, I will be forced to formaly report you.
Please also refrain from posting unfounded notices on other users talk pages. It will be interpreted as a personnal grudge. You are not qualified enough nor sufficiently objective to do so.
All the question where already adressed previously.
The case is closed. Regards - CocoricoPolynesien (talk) 14:12, 22 August 2019 (UTC)
@CocoricoPolynesien:,
Maybe now will be the right moment to read again those policies you didn't fully understood -> This is an improper statement, simply your opinion, please stop such kind of accusasions, a t least the third time I ask you for this.
If you think you are helping me, why you do not follow WP:AGF?
However, if you continue making such statement, I will be forced to formaly report you. -> Could you tell me what statement do you refer?
Please also refrain from posting unfounded notices on other users talk pages." -> sorry it was not unfolded ([11]), read please WP:Civility.
It will be interpreted as a personnal grudge. -> No, on the other hand personal grudge may be considered that you started this discussion and further accusations on my talk page, although the issue would belong to the article's talk page.
You are not qualified enough nor sufficiently objective to do so. -> Excuse me, I don't understand, what you refer exactly??
All the question where already adressed previously. -> No, these are new questions...
The case is closed. -> what do you it mean exactly by this? Thank You(KIENGIR (talk) 14:25, 22 August 2019 (UTC))

Kuhn[edit]

Do you have an opinion about MyMoloboaccount's edits at Walter Kuhn? I'm rather reluctant to get into a fight about them, but I can't help but feel that there are some serious WP:WEIGHT and POV issues. If other editors think I'm wrong I'll feel better about just letting the article go.--Ermenrich (talk) 01:01, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

@Ermenrich:,
I think you made useful contributions to the article, I was assessing the development continously, but per your request, I'll review his edits, since you did not object him much, I was considering everything is on the right path. Generally - I have to say - don't let anything ever go, if you do believe you are on the right path, especially because you are a valuable contributor that likes to really investigate all issues, shall it be controversial, "dangerous" or considered to opening a can of worms...."letting go" never would be good a solution, because sooner or later if not you, other's will intervene (the question is how, pretty unpredictable), but the guarantee of the most NPOV approach cannot miss even you. As you may see, I've been as well many times running into hot issues, but regardless of the sensitivity or any pressure or possible accusations, if you serve the most neutral content possible with good faith and the maximum accuracy, it will be noticed by others as well. Just see what I've been through in the Responsibility for the Holocaust article, check the events and the talk, people may be easily misunderstood or accused at first glance, similarly to the Kuhn isssue, but this should not keep us back to drop the possibility to develop this encyclopedia the most accurate as possible. Regards and keep on your good work on the project! (disclaimer for any third party: this is not a canvassing, I do not wish Ermenrich to take sides or intervene in the mentioned article, I just responded on a similar issue - WWII topic - demonstrating that the solution is not to give up a hard issue just because you might have been instantly labeled in a negative manner, similarly as it happened by the Kuhn map issue, NPOV should be really NPOV, shall anyone/any topic to be the subject.(KIENGIR (talk) 07:03, 23 August 2019 (UTC))
Thank you. I've explained some of my issues on the talk page there so that MyMoloboaccount might address them. My main concern is that he seems to be doing a search for any time Walter Kuhn name appears in the vicinity of any type of criticism, whether it's specific to Kuhn or not. The WW2 section also seems to rely heavily on sources that are simply summarizing (often inaccurately) scholarship by Burleigh that's already in the article.
I'm honestly getting very tired of these battles. Maybe I need to take a break from Wikipedia.--Ermenrich (talk) 12:38, 23 August 2019 (UTC)
@Ermenrich:, I reviewed the article, and I noticed your concern. I the talk page you indicated the problem, however in Wikiproject Germany you added more details regarding a misleading citation that I did not find in the article's talk, maybe you should also copy there this concern (and as well leave a notice on Wikiproject Poland, to recruit Polish readers). Regarding the phenomenon I just indicated in my discussion on the other page referred earlier, when I started discussions on Polish-WWII related articles, soon I was confronted if I would be a Polish-accuser that amazed me, beucase I was told there are many and as I see those articles, nearly five-six editors on daily basis rendering issues with discussions that would be a real duty to entirely follow or analyze, but it seems circling on how Poles are responsible or not responsibe on the events related Jews and Nazis, rendering everyday NPOV issues. I informed them I am NOT a Polish-accuser (neither I did anything that would appear like so, despite this was the initial step in order to "decide" my possible evaluation), just accuracy and neutrality leads me, it seems after a few "pinches" I'v found the common voice with them, however also in other articles (shall it be Huns, Turkic-related articles, or WWII/Holocaust/Nazism) I see a tendency that fresh editors/contributors are very likely to be labeled or considered taking one side by others that blinds the real neutrality issues; in other word to remain at the real point. I consider this harmful and too prejudicative, however it should not make any editor to be afraid of frankly straight discussions of the problem, since that is the professional way, discussion and argumentation may be not any means condemned (I mean you would be immediately labeled that you are just arguing to prove your point, thus you are surely biased and not neutral, and if you'd argue further, that would mean you would not accept you are commited to that side, etc.). Returning back to the Polish-WW2 issues, if often looks to a third party editor if would be a competition that who was a bigger and more horrible Nazi, shall it be Polish-collaborator/Jewish collaborator, etc. and sometimes some particular points are missing where not this qualifier would be the most relevant at some issues, or similar with other subjects. Hence, it is not easy with sensitive issues filled with possible prejudications, unnecessary "battles" are time consuming and taking away precious happy editing time, I agree but even you take some Wikibreak, return soon :), the project needs you.(KIENGIR (talk) 21:09, 23 August 2019 (UTC))

Disambiguation link notification for August 26[edit]

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Sumer[edit]

I've left a note concerning the Phenotype subsection on the talk page. LetsEditConstructively (talk) 00:57, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

1 September 2019[edit]

Hello, I'm Jeff6045. I noticed that you recently removed content from Fidesz without adequately explaining why. In the future, it would be helpful to others if you described your changes to Wikipedia with an accurate edit summary. If this was a mistake, don't worry; the removed content has been restored. If you would like to experiment, please use the sandbox. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you can leave me a message on my talk page. Thanks.

(talkcontribs) Jeff6045 00:08, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
@Jeff6045:,
sure, but this was an issue a long time and have been discussed many times, that's why such trials are reverted immediately.(KIENGIR (talk) 00:11, 1 September 2019 (UTC))


:Mainstream media such as new york times, time or al jazeera is placing Fidesz on the far-right. For example National Rally (France) has far-right position in Wikipedia because french mainstream media or international media is placing the party on the far-right. Also portugal Left Bloc has far left position due to same reason. Fidesz couldn't be an exception. In addition if there is argumentative issues on Fidesz it should be Semi-protected or at least there should be an explanation such as Brexit party.

@Jeff6045:,
The so-called "mainstream" view is not uniform, we have to be neutral here. New York Times is the traditional criticist of not just Orbán since almost twenty years, but as well Trump and anybody who have a different opinion of solving the migration crisis of Europe, etc. That's why we put criticism and other desciptions on the sections I referred but, we don't alter party positions because of the political ideology and agenda of some opposition media that are just accusing with some yeasty labelings, however the reality is totally different. Your possible generalization of other parties are not counting here, because we have to judge every case individually, especially in the Hungarian political paletta, where there are in fact really two far-right parties in opposition against Fidesz.(KIENGIR (talk) 01:02, 1 September 2019 (UTC))


:I respect your opinion. But you should know that your action is damaging fairness in Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a place to open your own political opinion but to edit article due to rational sources. It is your own choice whther you place Fidesz's political position to right-wing or far-right. But I want to notice you that people who support national rally do not think their party is far-right but they think mainstream medias or majority of critics are against their party. I will not revert my revision to the article, however if you want to protect fairness in Wikipedia you should add far-right position to Fidesz party. Thank you. (Jeff6045 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 01:42, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

@Jeff6045:,
I respect also yours, but please understand - I have a relevant experience on WP - that especially the opposite is happening, I prevent damaging fairness of Wikipedia (and it cannot be interpreted as "my action", it is based on a consensus made a long time ago where to put such other accusative descriptions). You were also told it is not my opinion, it is a fact that the party is not far-right, and as well our edits should support accuracy, because there are famous cases in WP where more reliable sources are contradicting each other, or are just simply inaccurate, there the editors common sense and good faith is needed to carefully chose in order to provide to the reader an accurate information!
people who support national rally do not think their party is far-right -> maybe this would be true for some people, also the same way it could be said people who support left-wing policy accused the opposition's every move to be far-right, as this has been the way of communication unfortunately, that both sides are making accusations for political purposes. Especially, the opposition parties in Hungary openly dislike Fidesz and criticize it, but none of them considers/treats or even accuses the part being far-right, because people would laugh and it would be the joke of the century (Hungary has a relevant history with real far-right parties, so every knows what is what, etc.), etc. Such accusations came from those media groups that are opposing any conservative-right wing policy that does not share the same views of the left-liberal parties, mostly how to handle migration crisis and the future of the European Union, hence our duty is to remain netural (WP:NPOV), and not let WP to be the battleground of political interest groups. That's why per consensus, exaggerated criticism goes to the "Ideology and policies" section. Regards.(KIENGIR (talk) 10:35, 1 September 2019 (UTC))