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Hello, you deleted Michele Martinez in 2016 following AFD. It's just been re-created by the same editor, but doesn't mention anything happening to her post-2016. Is it substantially different from when you deleted it? Thanks, Tracy Von Doom (talk) 04:39, 20 September 2019 (UTC)
- Hi Tracy Von Doom, there were some differences, particularly in sourcing, but I see that it has now been deleted after a discussion. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 16:49, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
Orlando's Summer of Love
(01:03, 27 February 2018 Malcolmxl5 deleted page Orlando's Summer of Love (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Orlando's Summer of Love)
It's not the end of the world as Beacham Theater covers a small portion of the subject. However it's getting quite large and cannot capture the rest of the material that a well written article on the subject would need to have. Florida breaks in the long term would probably not be appropriate for all of it either.
To the point, I found the supporting assertions of responding editors-some administrators very highly dubious. I have dealt with at least one them numerous times and in my experiences, he does it nearly every interaction I have with him. Can this be resolved without making a big deal out of it or is deletion review the only option here?
After the stub was made, an editor moving to merge in March 2017 questioned whether the subject term was used by only one author. More sources were offered to the editor, and a second move to merge was made. More sources were added for the pending notability discussion as shown below (apologies for the formatting error):
2017-03-01 Term coined by a single reporter is not notable enough for its own article. Merged to Orlando, Florida#Local culture
2017-03-01 Undid revision 768073072 by Ahecht more sources can be added outside of Orlando
2017-03-01 merge to|Orlando, Florida#Local culture|discuss=Talk:Orlando, Florida#Merger proposal|date=March 2017
2017-03-01 Sources added for notability discussion
I didn't oppose that merge and a (ridiculous) line now in a sea of garbage was added to Orlando,_Florida#Local_culture while it was decided (recently corrected).
This merge action put the first merge editor into the delete camp when it was re-nominated on 12 February 2018.
In sum, , the first editor found that there was (uncontested) reliable and verifiable evidence that the subject existed. But next they complained that there were then fifteen separate references describing the specific time period in Orlando and its impact on local, state, national and international culture where they could read a quote from many sources to know its relevance in establishing this subject was a real thing.
He observed that "references, each directly quoting enough of the source's content that it's dancing right on the edge of the line dividing "fair use" quotation from outright copyright violation," Clearly, this editor was unwilling to read the numerous references he complained about. This editor claimed and summed his complaint as "the biggest reference bomb they'd ever seen". However the WP:OVERCITE accusation was actually a Notibility bomb accusation per the link he supplied. Yet this editor was apparently unable read any of the quoted citation text that established the relationship of the reference to the subject. The implication of his accusation is that "the sources were deceptively added to support notability without regard to whether they actually support substantive or noteworthy content about the topic." However, the editor acknowledged the alleged reference bomb "is a lot more than we need to support a one-sentence substub which just says "this topic existed, the end".
Following a relisting one year later on 19 February 2018, A second editor, who wanted redirection, found the current stub "worse than useless" but that the links would be useful to someone writing a history of music in Orlando. The Irony should not be lost on wikipedia, the online encyclopedia, where any editor could somehow expand a tiny stub into a larger well-referenced article on this period of electronic music history in Orlando--which this article was intended to do someday. This editor found the mention at Orlando# Local culture sufficient for this subject.
A third editor claimed that some of the one sentence might be useful but had "tried to search for this umteen ways, there's just no such thing, not under this name at any rate. This is just something someone made up one day."
Assuming good faith, here, any English reader can establish that this subject exists and is not made up by reading the unchallenged assertion of the first editor or any of the quotations in the alleged "reference bomb". What reasonable person makes the claim of it's just made up in the face of a real or imagined reference bomb and is it actually a reference bomb if two separate editor/administrators are going to come in and make such an unfounded and offensive claim of just making it up?
The other irony here is that not even one of the umpteen super through searches of the internet by this editor apparently included a search engine (or specifically Google). After ten seconds, (eight of those typing the search term and one to press enter) I was able to find new source from November 2017 that was not even included in the aforementioned "reference bomb". There may be more. I stopped here with this one :
The last thing on DJ and Orlando dance music linchpin Kimball Collins' mind back during the fabled Orlando Summer of Love in the early 1990s was that he would someday be responsible for preserving the legacy of Florida Breaks. Fast-forward to 2017 and he is doing just that, but in the form of gigantic parties.
It's an extremely rare event that can mix a local history lesson with nonstop ecstatic dancing, but AAHZ nights are just that...Collins explains that this is a party with a purpose, a celebration of an era when Orlando was ground zero for a new type of dance music, and a survey of how that music has changed over the years: "Florida, and Central Florida in particular, gravitated heavily to all types of genres that relied on a type of break-beat from electro, techno, freestyle, Miami bass to straight-up U.K. rave breaks. Those influences went on to develop what would soon become the signature 'Florida break-beat sound.'
The fourth editor for delete echoed the completely and totally absurd assertion of the third editor--if true--which it very obviously was not.
The last editor offered comment that notability of the subject was an issue and that references outweighing the body were problematic (a rule or guideline was not specified) and uploaded a screenshot-- apparently to make this stub into some sort of example. see here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Example_of_article_with_excessive_citation_compared_to_content.png
I submit that the citations may need to merge, but it does not make any sense to merge them in a stub that needs further expansion. Some large quotes may not be entirely necessary (if still online) and the two sources submitted to date that specifically name the subject of the article are both local sources. The sources provided verify the name and reliably describe this subject and show how the subject fits into eight or more different subject articles already established on wikipedia.
- Malcolmxl5, I opened a request at Requests_for_undeletion#Orlando's_Summer_of_Love but clarification on the exact reason for your deletion is required to determine what needs to change in a new entry. Johnvr4 (talk) 13:30, 28 September 2019 (UTC)
- I do not intend to argue here. I do intend to have a policy-based-discussion on requirements for restoration, and improvement but I sure do not want to have to WP:REHASH any of it again.
- As I stated above. There are other policy-based discussions that I beg you to take pause to review in regard to your reply to me, the tally of the discussion votes, and in contemplation to resolve this issue without further discussion with admins that appear to blatantly ignore policy in discussion, comment and action.
- No one should deny that the actual concern put forth was that the term for this subject was used in only one source. Talk:Orlando,_Florida#Merger_proposal There are now Two sources WP:SUSTAINED sources for that term. IMHO, the issue now is whether the subject should--per two sources separated by 20 years--be titled "Orlando's Summer of Love" or not.
- The suggestion that that any of these fifteen (now sixteen) reliable sources are not significant coverage to demonstrate WP:N is Tendentious_editing#Disputing_the_reliability_of_apparently_good_sources.
- Please note that there is some WP:OWH and cross-wiki harassment. I do not know from whom.
- Several well-meaning administrators have advised action inconsistent with policy. One has attempted turn my policy-based request into some type of content dispute and then abused his tools to defend his position. I find this behavior unacceptable. Thank you, Johnvr4 (talk) 18:20, 9 October 2019 (UTC)
- Thanks for the links, Johnvr4, it seems that there has been some discussion already. My role was to assess the consensus at the deletion discussion. It seemed to me that there was no desire among the participants to keep the page, that the consensus was to delete. If you feel I was wrong in that (and that’s fine), you can ask the community to review my assessment at WP:DRV. If you want to have a policy-based-discussion on requirements for restoration and improvement, that is probably best done at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy). Lastly, I am perturbed that you are suffering some cross-wiki harassment. If you let me or another admin know a bit more about this then we may be able to do something about it. P.S. I was just writing this reply when I got your note below that you have referred my closure to WP:DRV. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 18:34, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
- Malcolmxl5, I may have jumped the gun a little bit with my DRV request. I got frustrated by another message at RFU today that seemed pretty final so I opened a DRV. The decision that I think was wrong was opening the AfD without acknowledging the premise of why the merge request was opened. It wasn't easily linked and even I had trouble finding it. I'll edit my comment about your willingness to participate. I would certainly not blame you at all if you do not want to engage. I am for the record rewriting it but I think it would have to go at Orlando, FL and also have substantial changes TDB. The helpfulness of the addition of a second source using the term has been questioned too. I suppose DRV can figure it out for us.
- I'm not sure about the harassment or if it even qualifies as harassment. Nor, do I know, or have any suspicion of who is responsible or whether they are still editing. The only info available to me is the date of the AfD, The close date of the screen shot upload, and the close date of the off-wiki posting Thank you very much. Johnvr4 (talk) 19:36, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
Deletion review for Orlando's Summer of Love
An editor has asked for a deletion review of Orlando's Summer of Love. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. Johnvr4 (talk) 18:23, 11 October 2019 (UTC)
News and updates for administrators from the past month (September 2019).
- Following a discussion, a new criterion for speedy category renaming was added: C2F: One eponymous article, which
applies if the category contains only an eponymous article or media file, provided that the category has not otherwise been emptied shortly before the nomination. The default outcome is an upmerge to the parent categories.
- Following a discussion, a new criterion for speedy category renaming was added: C2F: One eponymous article, which
- The 2019 CheckUser and Oversight appointment process has begun. The community consultation period will take place October 4th to 10th.
- The arbitration case regarding was closed. While there will be a local RfC
focus[ing] on how harassment and private complaints should be handled in the future, there is currently a global community consultation on partial and temporary office actions in response to the incident. It will be open until October 30th.
- The Community Tech team has been working on a system for temporarily watching pages, and welcomes feedback.