User talk:Xenos2008

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Just a personal note to express sadness that the bias and nationalistic propaganda on WP continues. As usual, the Greek lack of respect for expertise accompanies their own inflated egos. I shall not waste any more of my time with Greek assholes on WP. Write your nationalistic crap, let the world laugh at the Greek peasant mentality.Xenos2008 (talk) 04:02, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Sorry to see that you became so upset (in your efforts to improve the encyclopedia in a climate which you found hostile) that you ended up making personal attacks and sweeping generalizations which led to your 24 hour block.
If you want to make amends and show that you are of stronger character than those you criticize, I invite you to describe just one specific sentence or paragraph of the Cham Albanians article which you believe is Greek point of view that is not balanced by other significant viewpoints per WP:NPOV. Please give your explanations in measured language, and in the context of Wikipedia policies on verifiability and reliable sources: any expertise you have personally is welcome, but has to be backed up by published sources. You can do so at WP:Good article reassessment/Cham Albanians/1. If you decide that Wikipedia is so geared against you that it is not worth the effort and potential heartache, I sympathise, but will close the reassessment without action, as no GA issues have thus far been clearly articulated. Geometry guy 20:45, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Greek legislative election, 2009[edit]

I will try to address you and your arrogance in a civilised manner.

  • I told you that "legislative" elections refers to electing a legislature. A legislature is the general term for the body that legislates, i.e. gets bills into voted laws. Such a body is usually a Parliament, but it can be some other body, too. Thus, Wikipedia uses this general term. You are right that the term "parliamentary" elections is more common. You could prove that with Google. :P However, the term "legislative elections" is perfectly fine for parliamentary elections, too. You should check that legislative refers to legislature, too, by looking it up. If you want the term changed, as I have already told you, you should discuss it with some administrator here, or, in some Wikipedia policy committee. You're really wrong to be saying that it's only used for US states, or for Greek elections. It's widely used in Wikipedia, thus, you shouldn't argue about it in the Greek elections' section, but in a more general section, if you want it changed, as it affects a great lot of articles, and their links.
  • You replied to my reference of Lausanne Treaty-related articles, as follows: "Thank you, I know more about these than you do. It doesnt alter what I said: candidates from the official MInority and representing Thraki are an important part of Greek elections. Their non-appearance in media and this article shows how Greeks ignore ethnic minority issues." How can you say such a thing? How can you discredit me, without knowing anything about me? And, really, those candidates you refer to did appear in local media, they always do. But, of course, they didn't appear in nationwide media, as they were not notable enough. For example, did all the other candidates appear in nationwide media? Did you see all the local candidates appearing there? Of course not. And, this is not the situation only here. Do you think that in any country each and every local candidate appears in nationwide media? And, of course, it's natural. If, for example, a news or any other TV show could have Papandreou or Karamanlis, or even, Papathanasiou or Bakoyanni as guests, why would they invite a local candidate instead? However, these religious minority candidates did appear in local media, and, have in other occasions appeared in nationwide ones, too.
  • You may reply as you wish, but, just saying you have been teaching political science in a lot of universities for a lot of years doesn't just mean that everything you say will be thought of as a dogma or an axiom, or that you need present no evidence and no arguments supporting what you say. In my experience in Greek universities, I have come across a lot of professors who taught political science and thought bad of Greek national policies on minorities, but, their arguments on the subject were only too shallow. Greece does lose most cases on minorities brought before the European Court of Human Rights, but, that just shows how inadequate our political science and law professors are. :P

Heracletus (talk) 00:52, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

The point is that in normal European countries, the presence of minority candidates in elections is noted and celebrated in the national media. It is seen as a sign of a developed representative democracy that such candidates exist and maybe are elected. That this does not happen in Greece is a clear indicator of complete disinterest in the existence of minority groups -- even when it is the official Minority of the Lausanne Treaty. It is up to the WP article to present fairly not the Greek nationalistic viewpoint but an independent position which is of interest to non-Greeks as well. The WP articles are being used as a vehicle for Greek propaganda.

Greece loses all of its ECHR judgements on minority and even individual civil rights because the behaviour of the Greek state is mostly illegal and incompatible with European values and law. This has more to do with Greek politicians than with lawyers, although I do not hold the Greek legal system in high regard.Xenos2008 (talk) 20:53, 12 October 2009 (UTC)

I disagree with you. Strongly if I may say so. I have yet to see a feast to honour those precious minority candidacies in European developed countries, let alone the United States. Yet, you're free to have an opinion of your own.
When you lose cases concerning minority groups in a court, concerning which, there are clear agreements, i feel you're quite incompetent as a lawyer.
Feel free to call some media station broadcasting nationwide and complain about them being nationalists... :D Or, file a complaint with some Greek or European regulatory body. Heracletus (talk) 00:32, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
If you are not aware of the European reporting on minority candidates, then it means you are ignorant of European political realities. In the USA, you may have noticed, there is a President from a black minority.
The Greek press regularly publishes my and others' scientific views on the appalling nationalism and bias in Greece. Many others are filing complaints in the ECHR which is why Greece is humiliated on a continuous basis. There is no court to deal with WP so you nationalists get away with it here. I note that you lost the Macedonia argument here, though.
The meaning of the Treaty of Lausanne (and other treaties) is always to be interpreted by courts, not stated as an excuse for nationalistic and racist exclusion of minorities. That is what Turkey does, and deserves to remain outside the EU for just that. Greece also has no place in the EU with its mentality.

Xenos2008 (talk) 01:04, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, right... :P I guess you're one of those people who would award Obama the Nobel Peace Prize, just because he exists. Which, of course, has already happened. "Us nationalists" as you phrase it, however live in the real world and have to face the things you write your opinion about in the greek press. Greek press, what a joke! As if I couldn't write in something as Stoxos, in a really nationalistic manner, and then, go on as to how each and every week, my so valuable scientific views are publicised in the Greek press. Get a life, Xene, this land is Greek and at some point, you will have to either change attitude or leave it. :D
Say, if you voted for Pasok or ND, you'd write in a widely circulated newspaper, and not Proletariaki Simaia, on which you'd write if you were a member of KKE (M-L). In any case, however, that doesn't mean that what you write is right. You're being a diva WP:DIVA, and, may I say so, not the first one I have come across. You yourself define yourself as Xenos, an alien citizen in Athens, and then, go on to suggest how everyone that disagrees with you, is "a nationalist bastard". Which in your mind must be only natural, since you're a xenos, people arguing on your opinions, noting you're a political scientist and they are not, must only be ignorant nationalists.
Go walk the streets of Omonoia and the such in Athens at night or, go live in Rodopi and Xanthi and you will understand how what you write about is not exactly the way you think. While, of course, if you live in a nice suburb in Athens in a nice house and you just occasionally visit some minority villages in Rodopi to satisfy your need for political science, then, you will probably have a pretty distorted idea of what anything really is like.
I have friends who reside some kilometres outside Skopje and are citizens and ethnically belong to that state. However, Ancient Macedonians were not of the same blood or ethnological composition as those Slavs are.
Greece is humiliated by people like our politicians and government officials, including our lawyers in ECHR, the people in Greek Helsinki monitor and the such. It is also humiliated by those idiots buying Liakopoulos' books and believing that one day the Greek DNA will be activated, and that Greeks are 200,000,000 around the world. It is also humiliated by people like you who justify themselves on having a degree on political science and thus being always right and calling other people nationalists. It is also ridiculed by me playing on your idiotic closed-minded attitude.
I mean, the only way to reply to someone being silly is to tell them they are right. So, here, Xene, enjoy: [1] Heracletus (talk) 14:35, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

All of your statements about me are incorrect. This shows how little you understand of the situation. Greece has a Balkan mentality and a problem with nationalism: that's the issue, not what my opinions are. i happen to be expert on certain socio-political phenomena and qualified to comment on them. It is hilarious that you think a global perspective on the narrow -minded greek nationalism is "narrow minded". It just shows how pathetic the arguments of greeks are. Xenos2008 (talk) 15:29, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Uhm, whatever... bye. Heracletus (talk) 16:43, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Request for enforcement[edit]

There is a request for enforcement of ARBMAC rulings regarding your racist comments here.--Anothroskon (talk) 16:57, 21 November 2009 (UTC)

I do not make racist comments. I respond to the nationalistic and propagandistic mentality which has been taught in Greek schools for most of the last century. That is not racism, it is an attempt to bring logical analysis to Greeks.Xenos2008 (talk) 16:04, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
Please read this thoroughly and refrain from racist comments in future. Thanks.--Anothroskon (talk) 16:28, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Xenos2008, please refrain from making generalizations on whole categories of nationalities or editors, it is not conducive for building a neutral encyclopedia. henriktalk 16:41, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

I describe an educational problem in Greece, which is well known to all university professors of history. Their revised version of the common schoolbook on Greek history was rejected after ignorant nationalists campaigned and the previous government gave in to populism and nationalism by rejecting the revised schoolbook. The concept of neutrality is very difficult to attain in such a nationalistic environment and has nothing to do with me. Xenos2008 (talk) 19:17, 22 November 2009 (UTC)
That may be, but this is not the place to argue the failings of the Greek school system. With that said, please be more careful how you phrase matters so that other editors do not have reason to feel offended. Being respectful to all editors, no matter their background, is a core part of our civility policy. henriktalk 13:00, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
That person employs racist rants and foul language,all the while hiding behind facile excuses that offend our intelligence. His outburst about "assholes" and "peasants" is evidence enough. What more do we need him to say? That "some of his best friends are Greek"? I just hope he finally got it, though I don't really count on it.--Anothroskon (talk) 13:50, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, but I don't think henrik that you have grasped the nature of racism and xenophobia in Greek society. It is not practised by racists, as in Sweden or UK, but by the entire society because of a controlled nationalistic education system. Then, when someone points out their racism they automatically accuse that person of racism: a well known Greek response to criticism.Xenos2008 (talk) 19:25, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
And of course I am proven right. What could a "well known Greek response to criticism" really mean? I wonder.--Anothroskon (talk) 19:46, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Furthermore, I do not know what the complaints on WP are about, other than that I reject the false history that the Greek editors here are writing. Some of the people involved here have had arguments with me and with other foreigners on other websites, and think that they can abuse WP to get back at us. Some of these people are also arguing on other websites in English while in Greek they appear on extreme right (Chryssi Avgi) websites threatening British and Dutch academics in Greek universities (naming me personally). So, please, let's cut the crap: these are personal vendettas by Greek nationalists and racists against known foreign personalities. Does WP want to play in that game?
If I am accused of personal insults to individual editors, I take that more seriously and would be prepared to apologise. I don't think that I have done so, though.Xenos2008 (talk) 20:05, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
Still no answer on what constitutes a "a well known Greek response to criticism". Not to mention that pretending to be an academic won't get one very far here, what matters in WP are your sources. And what's with Greek nationalists and racists? I thought all Greeks were nationalists and racists. Why discriminate now?--Anothroskon (talk) 20:16, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
There could be evidence presented to the effect that Greeks are neither nationalist or racist, or at least no more than other groups, but that would be pointless. Racist slurs like the above should be rejected outright instead of debated.--Anothroskon (talk) 20:24, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Xenos - your comments here, and reviewing your contributions of the last few months, indicate that you have come here to fight a battle on Wikipedia over your opinion that Greek society is racist. We are specifically not here to be a venue for this sort of fight.

In addition, your comments about Greek and other editors violate our civility policy which requires that we treat all participants here with adult and respectful communications and assume good faith about their contributions.

This behavior is not acceptable. If you keep it up much longer you will reach the point at which we traditionally conclude that you have no intention or ability to work within Wikipedia's core values and community, and we indefinitely block your account.

If you want to continue participating in a constructive manner - please stop pushing people's buttons and referring to them in rude ways. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 05:28, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree. I left you a note below, stating that if you continue as-is, as stated above, you are putting yourself in a serious breach of getting indef'ed. Remember that we want to keep Wikipedia as civil as possible - please refer to WP:CIVIL if you need further information about this.--Boeing7107isdelicious|SPRiCh miT meineN PiloteN 05:24, 29 November 2009 (UTC)

WP ANI[edit]

Hello, Xenos2008. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.. There is a discussion concerning your recent edits here.--Anothroskon (talk) 22:00, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

It'll take you some time to absorb WP's policies and guidelines, but here's the cheese: If you continue as-is, you are in a serious breach of getting indef' blocked. I apologize if my tone was too strong for you (as well as to any other accounts involved in this incident)----Boeing7107isdelicious|SPRiCh miT meineN PiloteN 05:20, 29 November 2009 (UTC)
Your tone is fine: it is the Greek racism and nationalism that is not acceptable. Xenos2008 (talk) 16:51, 30 November 2009 (UTC)
Whether one's views about issues such as "Greeks' racism" are entirely correct or entirely wrong is entirely irrelevant. The relevant point is that Wikipedia is not the place to debate issues; it is not a message forum, political, geographical, linguistic, or otherwise. -The Gnome (talk) 15:20, 2 March 2011 (UTC)

Recent image uploads[edit]

I've raised these at WP:AN as it looks as though you are trying to bypass the Commons deletion. Dougweller (talk) 14:00, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Since the Commons deletions are not a matter of law but of stupidity, then what relevance is this? (talk) 14:07, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

May 2012[edit]

You have been blocked indefinitely from editing for making legal threats or taking legal action. If you would like to be unblocked, you may appeal this block by adding the text {{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}, but you should read the guide to appealing blocks first.

You are not allowed to edit Wikipedia while the threats stand or the legal action is unresolved. Dougweller (talk) 16:04, 27 May 2012 (UTC)


Hello Xenos2008. I wanted to let you know that I made a request at WP:ANI for an uninvolved administrator to review your block as I believe it was made in contravention in policy. —Psychonaut (talk) 21:05, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Thank you; I also emailed for arbitration, as the incident occurred very publicly on the admin discussion page! (talk) 21:30, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
I have unblocked you and emailed you. Claims of copyright should not fall under the legal threats policy - I think this is down to a misunderstanding on the part of the blocking admin, who focused on your turn of phrase. At AN, Dennis Brown seems to have hit the heart of the matter regarding copyright - hopefully this will allow the correct tags for the images to be sorted out quickly. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 21:52, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
Thank you. The issue is entirely about copyright status and tags, as you say. Xenos2008 (talk) 21:59, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
I would have unblocked you if you'd clarified matters here. It seemed pretty simple to me and if you'd done that after the IP was blocked I wouldn't have blocked you. Hopefully this is all sorted now. Dougweller (talk) 07:31, 28 May 2012 (UTC)