Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Archive33

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Eastern Front (World War II)[edit]

We are haveing problems resolveing our differences in opinion.

(Deng 22:08, 2 March 2006 (UTC))

This isn't where this goes. The Administrator's noticeboard is typically used for admin to admin communication. You just need to go to the request for mediation or mediation cabal pages and make a request. --Woohookitty(cat scratches) 10:55, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
You are ofcurse wrong when you say that

To be able to post on the meditation page one must first pass the requirments of the Template:RFMR

Read the Template:RFMR and you will see that you are wrong.

(Deng 23:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC))

No I am not. It is not required to post here before you put up a RfM. What is on that template are suggestions for how to list the request. And besides Deng, even if you were required to follow it, you posted in the wrong place anyway. The template says WP:AN/I. This is WP:AN. The steps you want to follow are on the Wikipedia:Dispute resolution page. First step is to talk and there's been alot of that. Next is one of 5 choices: Informal mediation, discuss with third parties, conduct a survey, mediation and requesting an advocate. The dispute resolution page clearly states that any of them can be picked. There is no required order. I suggestion informal or formal mediation because I'm not sure that the other choices would help here. Both sides are very entrenched. Do me a favor and don't tell me I'm wrong with policy. I've been doing this for 15 months. I've been an admin for 9. I have 20,000 edits. I know the steps. "Of course you are wrong". Of course? Please be civil. Please. --Woohookitty(cat scratches) 12:32, 4 March 2006 (UTC)


But you are wrong one MUST follow the template. If I hade done as you would have said and directly posted on the meditation page it would have goten denied. Why I chose to post here I simpley because other on the meditation page have posted here. You are wrong in saying that one can just post on the meditation page. The template is something one MUST follow. And it is good that I chose to make an extra post because this one has ofcurse goten dissrupted and has lost its purporse. Now if I would have only posted on the suggested pages and then you would have posted and dissrupted on of them also then perhpas the meditation people could have said; well you didnt really make an attempt to post on the other pages.

Also AND THIS IS THE KEY didnt you just say that the things on the template are suggestions? Well if they are suggestions then ofcurse there is no problem in posting here?

And how long you been doing this is irrelevant. I just proved you wrong, now didnt I? So learn to live with it.

(Deng 21:35, 4 March 2006 (UTC))

If you will notice in the HTML comments in that template, it says that "If the issue was raised on the Administrators Noticeboard or other similar page, provide a stable link" (emphasis mine). It also states in the actual text that you should bring it up on Administrators' noticeboard /Incidents, not here. And be civil. Telling people "I'm right, you're wrong, any questions?", which is basically what you have done above, is not likely to get you anything. Hermione1980 22:44, 4 March 2006 (UTC)


No no this was a good test run and when I post on the 2 pages that are suggested in the template then ofcurse I hope that I can avoid all the problems that we have experienced here. Fact is Fact and the Fact is my post here hasent accomplished what is was sent out to do but has gotten bogged down and has floated away from what its purpose was. So the actions of others has proven that I was correct in posting here because in doing so I possibly avoided the same incident on the intended pages.(Deng 23:07, 4 March 2006 (UTC))
The ends do not justify the means. --Woohookitty(cat scratches) 07:09, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

NPOV suggestion[edit]

Lots of time is wasted on NPOV disputes. I suggest a new category of protection. If a minimum of five admins decide to protect a section of an article (particularly the intro) then it remains protected until a minimum of five admins object. We might then move to greater stability though I acknowledge the downside of preventing editing. Kevin Mccready 15:57, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

No. Admins aren't supposed to use their administrative position to endorse specific positions in a NPOV dispute; the protection policy, in fact, forbids that in no unclear terms, and admins have ended up before the ArbCom before for violating it. A successful vote for adminship represents community support for an editor's restraint, stability, and committment to the project; it does not represent, in any way, community support for their views. Therefore it does not confer any special right to impose their view on articles, not even if they can find four like-minded admins to agree with them. An article where five admins are in dispute with five good-faith regular users should be considered a normal content dispute between users, and it should be settled like any other dispute. --Aquillion 21:22, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

You've perhaps misunderstood me here. I had no intention of 5 supporting one view over another. My point was that five admins should be able to agree on a NPOV statement that encapsulates a controversy, particularly in an introduction. i doubt that 5 vs 5 would waste anywhere near the huge amount of time and effort WPians can devote to revert wars. The point of my post was to suggest something new that could cut down on wasted effort. The "something new" is the suggestion that individual sections of an article (introductions for example) may be protected in special cases for perhaps a limited period of time. Mccready 13:40, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Naja Haje (talk · contribs) and Jobe6 (talk · contribs) confirmed to be compromised[edit]

Recently, those two accounts were blocked for page-move vandalism. I originally guessed that those accounts were compromised, and I turned out to be right. The owner of the accounts also played the online game RuneScape, and he just contacted me in-game to discuss this issue. He says that the hacker changed too much information in his account that he cannot recover it. Is there any other ways that hacked users could recover compromised accounts? --Ixfd64 20:47, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Off-hand, I'd say no. They'll have to start new accounts. Ral315 (talk) 18:51, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Confirm the new accounts, promote them if they were admins and block the old account. The new accounts can have an edit contrib list. Alt: A developer could hack the password, change it, and email it to the true owners.Voice-of-AllT|@|ESP 18:55, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
The edits won't be re-attributed, though, and the devs won't hack the pass, since there are legal/licensing implications involved. Neither were admins, for what it's worth. Ral315 (talk) 11:02, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Inf3rn0[edit]

Could someone help me get rid of this? It's supposedly by a minor (or someone trying to troll a pedophile) and I'll have to come "out of the closet" and say I don't have the procedure down for speed deleting and would like some assistance/education. --DanielCD 16:17, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Nevermind, User:Mushroom got it. --DanielCD 16:20, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

It just looks like run-of-the-mill vanity article. User:Zoe|(talk) 23:38, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Merkey RFC?[edit]

Without solicitiing comment on the actual content of the debate, can I ask someone who knows what he's doing to take a quick look at this quasi-RFC?

Jeffrey_Vernon_Merkey/Request_for_comments

There are two problems:

  1. it's not listed anywhere under WP:RFC that I can see, so it's not clear to me that it's really an RFC
  2. the namespace is confused: the page is in the article name space, but its discussion page Wikipedia talk:Jeffrey Vernon Merkey/Request for comments (as linked to from the "All signed comments and talk not related to an endorsement should be directed to this page's discussion page" note at the end) is in the Wikipedia talk namespace (meaning that on both pages, the "project page" and "discussion" tabs don't work as expected). —Steve Summit (talk) 20:06, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
I've taken a quick look, but you should be aware that I am one of the editors that the raiser is taking issue with. Looking in the page history the page was originally created as Wikipedia:Jeffrey Vernon Merkey and moved to it's current place, there is no indication it has ever been listed on RFC. Secondly it's inescapable to mention the content in relation as to if it's a valid RFC, the positions listed are in fact written by the same person, rather than as per the RFC that editors should only edit one opinion. Secondly the use of a list of authors with a vague assertion of some wrong doing is of course inappropriate for an RFC. --pgk(talk) 21:01, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
Moved to Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Jeffrey Vernon Merkey and Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Jeffrey Vernon Merkey. --cesarb 17:02, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Jobe6 is WoW?[edit]

This might be a done and finished topic as of February 21 but I hardly think that Jobe6 is WoW. I don't disagree with his block because what he did was wrong but that doesn't necessarily mean he was telling the truth when he said "I am Willy on Wheels". Maybe it's just be but does anyone remember User:Purplefeltangel? She moved the article Internet Relay Chat to Internet Relay Chat on WHEELS and I'm almost 100% sure she wasn't Willy on Wheels. My point is, she just wanted to leave Wikipedia and so could Jobe6. Although I do agree with his block, maybe in the near future Jobe6 should be unblocked and see if he wants to contribute constructively again. Moe ε 01:34, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Willy on Wheels has spawned many imitators; in fact, the vast majority of people who move articles to pages "on wheels" are probably not the original Willy on Wheels. Regardless, anyone who vandalises or claims to be WoW will not be tolerated, and the account was rightly blocked by Curp's bot for page moves. However, given Jobe6's history of decent contributions, we can only hope that there is some other explanation; we all should assume good faith here. Until there is some indication, though, that Jobe6 requests to be able to edit again, wishes to be unblocked, or provides some other explanation, I think the block should stay. Thanks! Flcelloguy (A note?) 02:03, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
The best information we have right now is that the account is controlled by a vandal, and so should remain blocked. -- Curps 03:43, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
See the above section, where it's said that Jobe6 was hacked, and all info changed. Ral315 (talk) 11:03, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Cat:CSD is overflowing again[edit]

We've got 55 pages and 20-something images in CAT:CSD. I'd clear it out myself, but I'm exhausted and have got to go to bed. Somebody? Anybody? Hermione1980 01:34, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm on it, btw. NSLE (T+C) at 01:57 UTC (2006-03-05)
Mostly cleared out, wih a little help. Some unclear ones I've left. NSLE (T+C) at 02:05 UTC (2006-03-05)
I'm sort of monitoring it, but there aren't more than 10 articles in there. — Ilyanep (Talk) 02:49, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Know a good way of keeping CSD low? New Page Patrol. (Just sayin'....) --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 06:29, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
And again, just cleared out most of the 30-or-so articles in there. NSLE (T+C) at 06:33 UTC (2006-03-05)
55 pages isn't really that much. I've seen it with 200+ at one point (though that was back when anons could make new pages). Coffee 17:12, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Not really the best place for this (but I'll put it here anyway, since I want some feedback)[edit]

I was recently looking the for this disambig page, and mistakenly typed centurian, which rather than yielding no results, gave me this instead, the question being, now that I've discovered that there are 13 entire articles with rather obvious typos in them, do I have some sort of responsibility to hunt through those articles and fix the spelling, or is there place I can take this where other people, or maybe some sort of bot, could do it for me?--172.155.253.112 03:28, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Nope, not the best place at all, I'm afraid--we only deal with admin issues here--but why don't you list it at Wikipedia:Lists of common misspellings? Chick Bowen 03:33, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Strange, I decided to fix them all myself, but they're still showing up on a search for centurian, even with the misspelling removed--172.155.253.112 03:38, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Updating the search index is a very slow process, so it's only done once every few months. --Carnildo 08:17, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

upcoming revert war on Jeffrey Vernon Merkey, beware[edit]

User Waya sahoni conducted an ill-formed RFC (Jeffrey_Vernon_Merkey/Request_for_comments) which he now says justifies removing several sections from the article; see Talk. Others have repeatedly promised to revert. Expect a battle. —Steve Summit (talk) 03:55, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Moved to Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Jeffrey Vernon Merkey. --cesarb 17:03, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Template:CURRENTDAY[edit]

Deleted {{CURRENTDAY}} for some unknown reason, and won't divulge that reason with anyone, even went as far as blocking an aol ip block just to make the point that he can delete whatever he wants, without giving any sort of reason--64.12.116.200 06:56, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

There are no such templates. See the deleted history of Template:CURRENTDAY (edit | [[Talk:Template:CURRENTDAY|talk]] | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (and the others) to see why Improverist (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) and SaviorOfGrace (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) were blocked. -- Curps 06:59, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
  • O'RLY, then what are {{CURRENTDAY}}, {{CURRENTYEAR}}, and {{CURRENTMONTH}}?? are they all figments of my imagination? Or maybe just real templates? That actually exist--64.12.116.200 07:01, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Interesting. Deleted page histories that include images entitled penisflaccid. This valuable content must be undeleted immediately. · Katefan0(scribble)/poll 07:05, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
You realized non-admins can't see deletedpage histories right?--64.12.116.200 07:06, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
This is an administrators' noticeboard and that information is useful to other admins. Since you yourself are the vandal the reply wasn't intended for you. -- Curps 07:07, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
See m:Variable. These are built-in variables, not templates, as no page exists to define them. Creating templates at these titles, will only be seen as a trollish attempt to indirectly vandalize the main page and any templates that depend on these variables. Anything created there should be deleted on sight, no exceptions. — Mar. 5, '06 [07:08] <freakofnurxture|talk>
If there is no Template:CURRENTDAY, then why does {{CURRENTDAY}} have a value? Doesn't putting something inbetween {{these}} automatically reference [[template:these]]?--64.12.116.200 07:11, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
It's handled differently by the software, as it is a variable. Titoxd(?!? - help us) 07:13, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

You do realize that this "concerned" anon (using AOL IPs) is the vandal himself. If the vandalism actually worked for its intended purpose (I haven't checked if that's the case) the software would need to be changed. -- Curps 07:10, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

  • You realize I created the later of the two accounts, because unregistered users can't create pages either so i had no way to undelete what looked like the deletion of {{CURRENTDAY}} without registering an account??--64.12.116.200 07:13, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
  • I agree completely. If the vandalism does work, you should auto-delete by bot until the software can be changed. Creating a list of "bad titles" in MediaWiki: namespace would also be useful for other purposes, such as making {{deletedpage}} obsolete. — Mar. 5, '06 [07:14] <freakofnurxture|talk>
    It doesn't work. Such templates can be called, but only using unusual syntax like -----. As for {{deletedpage}}, the best way to obsolete that would be to allow nonexisting pages to be protected. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 09:44, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Zeq[edit]

This arbitration case has closed. Zeq is banned from articles he has disrupted and placed on Probation. Zeq and Heptor are cautioned regarding sources. Zeq is cautioned regarding removal of well sourced information. Others are cautioned to use the procedures in Wikipedia:Resolving disputes. Where applicable, these remedies are to be enforced by block. On behalf of the arbitration committee, Johnleemk | Talk 09:48, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Now Hold Up[edit]

Okay I'm wondering when the maker of wikipedia made wikipedia did he make any articles? Did he make the administrator's rules? At first I thought he left the whole wikipedia empty but then I noticed that only admins can edit the main page so admins are a real official position. Crowbaaa 16:37, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

The main page was not protected initially. It was only protected after a long time, and even then there was a backdoor way to edit it without being an administrator if you knew the trick. The full protection of the main page is very recent. --cesarb 16:50, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Ooh, what's the trick? Assuming it doesn't work anymore, there's no harm in sharing it. I'm curious :) --Golbez 20:08, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
The majority of the content on the main page is not on the page itself, but via transclusion and templates (Like {{DYK}}, {{ITN}}, etc.), which were left unprotected for quite a while. See also Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2005-02-07/Main_page_protection.--Sean Black (talk) 21:01, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Yes, Jimbo left Wikipedia empty and intended it to remain so, but we administrators intervened--our puissance is our own.
We know no time when we were not as now;
Know none before us, self-begot, self-rais'd,
By our own quick'ning power. Chick Bowen 17:05, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Argghhhh!!! 2[edit]

Also I noticed that on the Notability page a text box was covering a few words and i tried to edit it so that it wasn't. I failed but then I got in trouble for vandalising. I am mad at the person who did this and will ask for an apology, does anyone think this is fair? Come on, people are too grumpy on wikipedia nowadays. Crowbaaa 16:37, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

If this is the edit to which you are referring [1], I would never have known that you were trying to repair a text vs. box collision; in fact I can't tell what you were attempting to do. I suggest using edit summaries. Had you done that it is unlikely you would have been accused of vandalism. Thanks, Antandrus (talk) 16:44, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Linkspam by new user[edit]

A new user, User:Polzer, in addition to some good edits, has added vanity literature references to several dozen film-related pages: Special:Contributions/Polzer. Not being an admin, I have no way of easily editing them out, so perhaps an admin can check it out. (I gave a welcome and a warning on Polzer's talk page, so that is taken care of.) --Janke | Talk 18:03, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Cleaned up now.Voice-of-AllT|@|ESP 18:12, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

TabWiki Links[edit]

Myself and other member of tabwiki.com (a mediawiki based tableture site) were wodering if it would be against Wikipedia policy for us to add links to tabwiki tabs on the songs and album templates of wikipedia. I realize your rules are much more complex then tabwiki's and as such I felt it would be polite to ask before taking any action on the subject. Please let us know here or on tabwiki's main page's talk page.

PS. we are in the process of linking to wikipedia on tabwiki artist pages (see Pink Floyd's page on Tabwiki for an example)

--Diploid 21:29, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

My only concern here is the fact that the RIAA is targeting lyric and music tag sites citing copyright violations. Mike (T C) Star of life2.svg 23:06, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Yes we're going to have to deal with that when it comes around, we think we'll stand a better chance of survival the other tab sites because we are Gnu copyrighted. Anyways, a law suit against TabWiki would only cause the links to stop working, and as they'd be part of your templates this would be easy to fix. I'm not a legal expert, but I don't think theres any way they could draw Wikipedia into any legal battles. maybe someone knows more on this subject? --Diploid 15:38, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I'm not a lawyer and not at all certain about this, but it could be contributory infringement, however unreasonable this seems. I believe that's why the DMCA offers safe harbor to information locating services, like Google. Having your site under the GFDL will not help you defend against lawsuits. It's still a violations and it's going to make the copyright holders even more frusturated because GFDL sites tend to be reproduced widely (see Wikipedia:Mirrors and forks). Superm401 - Talk 00:34, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
So, according to my understanding of the Contributory Infringement page (thanks for the link btw) wikipedia would be performing a indirect patent infringement if online tablature was proven to be in patent violation. And in that if we have our problem, there has yet to be a tablature site that will risk taking the RIAA to court (to my knowledge). Powertabs and Mxtabs, two of the largest tab sites, were the first of many to be shut down by intimidation by the RIAA. On another note I've done some homework and I think tablature could be considered legit in the USA (where both wikipedia and tabwiki are based) since it's definition of a equivalent device includes the statement:
"A doctrine of equivalents analysis must be applied to individual claim limitations, not to the invention as a whole."
which would also suggest onine tabbing's legality because although the overall sound of many online tabs is similar to the song, the bars and individual frets ("elements") that make up the song are generally different from the origonal tab (in that they are transcribed from one string to another, or flat out wrong). Basicaly I think the online tabbing community's inaccuracies and newbisms could be our savng grace. Just a disclamer that once again i am not a legal expert, if anyone is please help us out on this one! --Diploid 03:04, 1 March 2006 (UTC) (excuse my spelling, it comes from engineering)
I apologize. I should have noticed that page only dealt with patent infringement. Copyright and patenting are very different things. A patent protects a method, invention, or device while copyright protects a work of artistic expression (book, painting, computer program, music). Unfortunately, that means most of your comment is not applicable. See Chilling Effects for a useful discussion of contributory copyright infringement. Superm401 - Talk 06:47, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Ok, so according to Chilling Effects:

"Storage of material on a system at a user's request. (e.g. pirated software, serial numbers or cracker utilities posted on message boards or in chat rooms)"

is protected by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act’s “Safe Harbor”. Since the site owner has never posted a tab it may be arguable that TabWiki is legal and that therefore a link to Tabwiki would also be legal. --Diploid 16:21, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Since there has been no further comments on this I will take it apon myself to be bold with editig and create a link to the Tabwiki artist pages within the next 24 hours unless there is further discussion here. I want to create a link from your artist template to tabwiki's artist pages, in such a style that is is hidden on all pages except those that have the variable tabwiki set to true. Also, it would make sence that if the TabWiki community ever learned of a copyright ifringemet warning that it would be our duty to inform wikipedia so that links may be removed as the wikipedia community deams necessary. --Diploid 21:57, 6 March 2006 (UTC) (TabWiki Admin)

Freakofnurture is abusing his admin tools![edit]

I read on the Wiki mailing list about Freakofnurture abusing his tools. The complainer said the following:

Almost immediately after creating account for what would be my first time editing wikipedia an admin blocked me indefinitely.

username : Let's Get High And Edit Wikipedia

IP : 69.60.118.148

Reason given "stoner..." by

This admin describes himself as pissed off and also proudly displays a widget that says he does not do any drugs. I had the impression, perhaps wrongly so, that wikipedia was supposed to be more of an open atmosphere where there isn't such a heavy hand with admin powers. In other words, a place where someone's first visit isn't met with an insult (stoner) by someone claiming to be angry, pissed off and a judeofacist (whatever that is, but it doesn't sound too nice). I really do not see what the problem with my username is. It is silly, perhaps, but not offensive. Thank you

I asked the admin for his reasoning and he replied on my talkpage with the following statement:

It's a username that promotes illegal activities and can be seen as an invitation to vandalize the site. Also closely resembles the disruptive "let's vandalize wikipedia" and "let's fuck and rape admins" accounts which are typically blocked automatically within seconds of creation. Basically I'd block anything that started with "Let's" on general principal, because it's probably another sockpuppet of the same select few individuals.

I believe this admin abused his tools, because:

1. He is not a police officer, thus, he should not enforce the law on Wikipedia, unless it explicity states so in the Wiki policy; 2. I don't believe that this illegal activity relates to Wikipedia, because, this activity might not be illegal elsewhere; and also, because this falls under free speech. One is allowed to say that he likes drugs; and, 3. Because the admin said he would ban anything that starts with the word "Let's" based on assumption that it is a sockpuppet (I have some problems understanding that argument).

I believe the user in question should be unblocked and offered an apology, while the admin should be dealt with accordingly. --Candide, or Optimism 08:25, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

  • Are you implying that this username is somehow appropriate? — Mar. 5, '06 [08:29] <freakofnurxture|talk>
Yes, I am. --Candide, or Optimism 10:47, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
  • I see nothing Freakofnurture did wrong. I agree it is an inappropriate username, and was rightly blocked. NSLE (T+C) at 08:30 UTC (2006-03-05)
  • I see no error in judgement in freakofnurture's actions, the username does follow a common pattern of vandalizing usernames all of which are blocked on sight -- Tawker 08:32, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
    • That is, of course, not to say that the user would have vandalised, but it is a precaution many admins take, usually leaving a note to the user about their username. This username, while not offensive, is inappropraite. There is no abuse of admin tools. On the other hand, you have a very nice history of blocks. Perhpas you should heed your January block and lay off harassing others. NSLE (T+C) at 08:34 UTC (2006-03-05)
      • Perhaps you should mind your own business, if you can't stay on topic and be constructive. --Candide, or Optimism 10:47, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
        • I think the point NSLE is making is that, yes, I have POVs, yes, I'm not afraid to express them on my userpage. However, unlike the complainant, my POVs have no bearing on my edits to article namespace, and I do not participate in disruptive edit wars. If that doesn't make me a model Wikipedian, what would? — Mar. 5, '06 [10:54] <freakofnurxture|talk>
  • This username was also blocked by Curps, perhaps you wish to crucify him as well? — Mar. 5, '06 [08:47] <freakofnurxture|talk>
  • I think that while he could have explained it better as to avoid biting the newbie, his block was entirely appropriate since that username is blatantly innapropriate. Pegasus1138Talk | Contribs | Email ---- 10:04, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
According to whom? To you? Why is it inappropriate? Is he not allowed to say that he likes drugs? --Candide, or Optimism 10:47, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
I don't know, but if you blocked him for another reason than his nickname, then that should have been the reason for the block — not the other reason that you used. All I'm saying is that I disagree with the block based on your justification of it; i.e., that he "promotes illegal activities", etc. --Candide, or Optimism 11:03, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Actually, we do block for usernames that promote of illegal activities [2], and even for statements to that effect [3], though I disagree with the appropriateness of the latter. — Mar. 5, '06 [12:01] <freakofnurxture|talk>
  • I was going to do something about this terribly unjustified block by a ROUGE ADNMIN of a user who would obviously be a wonderful Wikipedian but only under this username and no other possible username whatsoever, but I got high, but I got high, but I got high - David Gerard 12:31, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
  • The block was fully justified.--MONGO 12:36, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
  • If I had noticed this username before freakofnurture, I would have blocked it. If you don't want to be blocked for picking a stupid username that violates our policies, then don't pick a stupid username that violates our policies. Nandesuka 12:55, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I've checked the inappropriate user names policy. let's get high etc doesn't violate. drug use is perfectly legal in some parts of the world - a point made early in this discussion but not addressed. why don't re just relax and get on editing? Mccready 14:05, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Check it again, because you didn't check closely enough: No usernames that closely resemble notorious Wikipedians' usernames. (emphasis in original). Nandesuka 14:12, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I did read the policy closely before I posted. I considered that of the word "Let's" was not sufficiently close. Apology in order? Mccready 12:45, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

The appropriate action is to put an Rfc against Freak of Nurture for abusing his admin powers to promote his POV, and then see what the arbcom makes of the case. Nandesuka is right that consuming cannabis is not illegal in many parts of the world, merely because it is (if it is) illegal in the States is totally irrelevant unless we are starting to promote US laws as standard in the world, not appropriate activity for an international encyclopedia. There may be other stuff behind this particular case but to block someone solely for encouraging what is in parts of the world a fully legal activity, and concerning a law whopse validity is questioned almost everywhere but at least a substantial minority has no justification, SqueakBox 14:21, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I realize that Freakofnurture cited the illegality of recreational drug use, but an account created under the name "Let's Get Drunk And Edit Wikipedia" would be blocked too (rightfully so). —David Levy 14:33, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Yes, and "Let's Edit Wikipedia Using A Stolen iBook G4" would similarly be blocked on sight. Actually, I can't think of anything combining "Let's" and "Wikipedia" that would be acceptable. Such names are obviously intended to insult and/or mock the project. — Mar. 5, '06 [16:24] <freakofnurxture|talk>
  • In all fairness, Freakofnurture should have provided an explanation along the lines of "inappropriate username" (instead of "stoner...") and should have left a note on the user's talk page. The block itself, however, was entirely justified. —David Levy 14:33, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes while it would be entirely wrong to block an entirely new user (which freakofnurture doesn't believe this user is) for saying "lets get stoned" there clearly is more than that to this case. The block looks ok but the reasoning (stoner) is clearly not, people with a pro cannabis POV must be made as welcome here as anyone else. Cannabis use is neither universally illegal nor universally condemned and using doesn't hurt others so to class someone who says I love pot as we (rightly) would condemn someone promoting paedophilia or thuggery (though I can think of one user who hasn't been blocked yet claiming he is a gangster while threatening another user). I can confirm that neither freakofnurture or this lets get high user are involved in the cannabis (drug) articles and in that sense his anti-pot beliefs have not intruded on the main space, SqueakBox 14:49, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

The username was not nearly so objectionable that a block was warranted. We should block "offensive" usernames only in extreme cases, not as a matter of course. —Steve Summit (talk) 16:01, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Oh, for Pete's sake. Someone created a deliberately trolling username. Freakofnurture used a bit of humour in his block message. Should he have stuck with the by-the-book boring-as-dry-toast log entry "Username block"? Oh, probably. Is it not unreasonable to expect someone who creates a trolling username like that to have a sense of humour, and accept that we caught them? I think so.

Freakofnurture isn't trying to enforce some crazy anti-cannabis policy. There are any number of Wikipedians with pro-marijuana slogans and boxes on their user pages; FoN hasn't blocked any of them. I'm a Canadian editor, and FoN hasn't blocked me. :D We've now wasted an absurd amount of time and effort discussing what just about everyone agrees was a good block, just because Freakofnurture had a bit of harmless fun in the block log. I will smack with a rubber chicken anyone else humourless enough to post in this thread, myself included. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 16:09, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Exactly. I don't block users whose overall presence is a positive one, regardless of what they believe in. I blocked an inappropriately-named account within seconds of its creation, then released the IP autoblock, so he could create a new one and forget the whole thing ever happened. In the event that this user intended to make positive contributions to Wikipedia (which I seriously doubt) he's probably registered another name, and we may never know who he is (which would be a Good Thing, considering the quantity of bullshit being generated over this issue). Furthermore, I will note that SqueakBox's argument is akin to claiming that IsWayneBradygonnahavetosmackabitch (talk · contribs) is kosher on the basis that Saudi Arabia has no laws against bitch-slapping. — Mar. 5, '06 [16:41] <freakofnurxture|talk>
TenOfAllTrades smacks Freakofnurture with a rubber chicken for continuing to post in this thread.
TenOfAllTrades then smacks himself with a rubber chicken for posting in this thread. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 17:17, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Might I add that since the WMF is based in Florida, it is governed by the laws of the States. — Ilyanep (Talk) 17:30, 5 March 2006 (UTC)


US law clearly says one has the right to say that he likes drugs. Plus this incident shows admins' clear contempt for WP:AGF Robust Physique 19:42, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
And yet the act is illegal. Either way, it's not like we're telling the person he can't edit at all. He can come back under any other username. Experience shows that such usernames are used for trolling and vandalism. — Ilyanep (Talk) 19:46, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Just to clear something up - getting high is not illegal. All that matters is what you get high with. --Golbez 20:09, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm so high on life right now, I can barely type. -GTBacchus(talk) 20:30, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm high on this stupid, stupid discussion! - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 01:47, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

RfC/All needs editing[edit]

Can I ask an admin to edit Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/All? It has three problems, one of which is significant.

1. The "Policies, guidelines and proposals" section is missing. At the very least, these lines need adding:
==Policies, guidelines and proposals==
{{Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Policies}}
2. The "Mathematics, natural science and technology" section is in a different order.
3. The cross-reference to Wikipedia:Current surveys is slightly garbled and hiding at the bottom.

I've got a modified version, incorporating all three fixes, tempoarily sitting at User:Ummit/Sandbox, if you want to cut-and-paste (and if you trust me not to have sneakily made any other changes :-) ). —Steve Summit (talk) 02:09, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I did this. Please make sure it's right. For one thing, at the moment the toc seems to be in a very weird place. I'll have to fiddle. Chick Bowen 02:13, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Wow! That was fast. Thanks. The TOC looks fine to me. —Steve Summit (talk) 02:16, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Well, I changed it again--sorry. I didn't like having the Current surveys link at the top, so I moved it back to the bottom but gave it its own section so it will appear in the table of contents. Thoughts? Chick Bowen 02:17, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Wait--now that I've changed it, I'm confused. Wasn't the math section in alphabetical order before, and not now? Why did you want it moved (sorry, should have asked that before)? Chick Bowen 02:20, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
I hadn't noticed the alphabetical order. My intent was to make the order match the order at WP:RfC#List, simply because that makes it easier to verify that the two lists are in sync. If the former order on the /All page makes more sense, obviously WP:RfC could be changed instead. (Sorry; I meant to mention that.)
As for the survey link, my feeling (as a dumb user) was that it "ought" to be transcluded onto the page and appear in the ToC like all the others. Obviously it's different and wants to stay that way, so my thinking was that by putting the "See also" link at the top, right under the ToC, it was almost as if it was in the ToC, as a 14th item. It seemed a waste to actually put it in a ToC'ed section, since it's essentially a stub, and it seemed ever-so-slightly obnoxious to make the user click through a second time. (Make sense?) —Steve Summit (talk) 02:34, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
I understand what you mean, but when I had "Current surveys" up there, my eye went right past it. I'll leave it as it is for now, I guess, and see if anyone else comments or changes it. Maybe there's more that should appear in the "See also" section, like WP:RFAR perhaps. I've now made both /All and WP:RFC#List alphabetical--thanks for pointing that out, and thanks for all of the suggestions. Chick Bowen 03:05, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

This is a good example of why protected pages are considered harmful. Shall we unprotect it? Protecting against confusion as the log implies doens't seem like a great way forwards to me. -Splashtalk 03:49, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

You're probably quite right. I raised the issue at Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment. If no one there objects, I'll unprotect it, but I figure people who watch that page are likely to be more familiar than I am with the day-to-day operations of RFC. Chick Bowen 04:00, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
If you look at thr protection log, it was protected in the first place to stop people from accidently adding new issues to that page instead of the more specific sub pages.[4] Therefore, do not be surprised if the page is protected again if the problem re-occurs again. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 05:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
I think it's a good idea to leave it protected, since it's not a "real" page, and inadvertent edits to it seem very, very likely. Actual edits to it are rare, so are reasonably confined to admins. Asking an admin to make the change I had in mind was absolutely not a problem (at least in this instance). —Steve Summit (talk) 23:27, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Username Block Needed[edit]

User:Nazi Vandal — Preceding unsigned comment added by God of War (talkcontribs)

Done. Antandrus (talk) 03:37, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm surprised that wasn't blocked by Curps automatically. Pegasus1138Talk | Contribs | Email ---- 04:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Amanojyaku[edit]

The user is creating a series of new pages with good intent. But they're stubs, and they link to private forums and userpages. He needs advice more than the Welcome message, and I'm not any more experienced than the user at making articles. Anyone want to lend a hand? TKE 05:04, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I've left a message on that user's talk page encouraging him/her to check out Wikipedia:How to write a great article with the conclusion that I'm available for any questions the editor might have. --ZsinjTalk 05:20, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Adding a whole chapter of a book[edit]

User:Magdalenadaly recently left an interesting proposal on my talk page. She would like to add to Wikipedia a whole chapter from a book, for which she says she has the blessing of the author. The chapter is about the Irish psych-folk band Mellow Candle. I haven't the time to take care of it, so if someone wants to get in touch with her and answer her questions, please feel free. Her request if located here. Cnwb 22:32, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

  • That should go in wikisource.--God of War 22:54, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
  • This shouldn't be on the admin noticeboard...but it's not necessarily a bad idea for Wikipedia. If someone is willing to wikify it and the author specifically releases the chapter under the GFDL, it could be useful (however, I haven't looked at it). Superm401 - Talk 01:12, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
    • My apologies. Cnwb 01:40, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Not that I think this is necessarily a bad idea, but would this fall under WP:NOT an indiscriminate collection of information? After all, would you expect to find an entire chapter of a book in an encyclopedia? Also, after looking at Wikipedia:Don't include copies of primary sources, I imagine Wikisource is probably the best place for this as well. EWS23 | (Leave me a message!) 01:36, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
  • It is understood that the text will be freely edited, isn't it? I don't see a problem with incorporating portions (depending on its length) of the chapter into the article about the band, but it certainly should not be added to the article "as is" or made into a stand-alone article. The portions of the text used will need to be written in a neutral point of view, if it is not already, and formatted. -- Kjkolb 02:47, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
I think it sets a bad precedent. Whilst the offer is a nice one, there's a better place for an entire chapter rather than within an encyclopedia. Quotes from sections of the chapter would be fine. Others above have suggested contributing the information to Wikisource, which I think is a good idea. -- Longhair 02:53, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Wikipedia:Don't include copies of primary sources doesn't apply here since the chapter doesn't sound like a primary source. If the chapter is released under a free license, I see no reason not to include it. It would need to be wikified and edited for NPOV -- and possibly edited for length, depending on how much information the chapter includes. Christopher Parham (talk) 19:18, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Such material belongs only in Wikisource. If it were included in an article, I, for one, would delete it at once. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:48, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
  • Perhaps we should look at the material before deciding what should be done about it. I can think of many book chapters that would be good encyclopedia articles and many book chapters that would be terrible ones. I don't think there can be any overarching policy beyond those of being an encyclopedia. --best, kevin [kzollman][talk] 23:21, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
  • I'm not an admin but I'd oppose putting this into Wikipedia for reasons mention. I'd also oppose putting it into Wikisource because IMO, Wikisource was not intended to be a marketing platform for nonfree books and should not host "sample chapters". If the author is willing to have the entire book (not just one chapter) on Wikisource then that would be great. But it's all or nothing. Phr 05:30, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Fair use being misapplied[edit]

I am getting increasingly concerned about the overuse and abuse of fair use on Wikipedia. The latest thing that I noticed was the use of a {{TIME}} template license that was using weasely words and allowing us to upload almost all the TIME covers (copyrighted material no less!) under the banner of fair use.

I have started off the Wikipedia page Wikipedia:Fair use review to discuss this issue further. My goal is to remove all invalid fair use images from Wikipedia, and those that should be on the site should be fully reviewed and a rationale given.

There are two reasons for this review:

On Wikipedia:About we have written:

All of the information in Wikipedia is free for anyone to copy, modify for their own purposes, and redistribute or use as they see fit, as long as the new version grants the same freedoms to others and acknowledges the authors of the Wikipedia article used (a credit or backlink to the original article is sufficient for this). For full information see the copyright page or the text of the GNU Free Documentation License.

Fair use does not necessarily allow us to redistribute the content we have tagged as fair use, especially to commericial enterprises such as about.com. As such, fair use should only be used when absolutely necessary - see also Wikipedia:Fair use criteria.

The second reason is that we are increasingly opening ourselves up legal liability. You can't just upload an image and slap a fair use tag on it! This, however, is what some editors have been doing, pissing off many in the process.

Even should my Wikipedia page not take flight, something must be done about fair use on Wikipedia! Please join me in fixing this issue.

Ta bu shi da yu 03:44, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Ta bu about the importance of this issue. The quality, timeliness, insightfulness, and striking nature of the illustrations in TIME, like any other popular media, are a primary factor in the commercial value of their work. It is due, in part, to such illustrations that the public chooses to purchase TIME's product (both new issues, and access to archival copies) when they desire information about events both in the world today and in the past. We must accept that, to a non-trivial extent, Wikipedia is in direct competition with TIME (as well as any other form of popular media), and that our careless use of their copyrighted works to improve the value of articles unrelated to TIME's product is an unacceptable violation of copyright law. Fair use is intended to protect public discourse, so the use of time covers to discuss TIME is usually acceptable. Fair use is not intended to give us an easy way to obtain fantastic illustrations for our articles at no cost. This is a subject matter not likely to be understood by our general userbase without education and support. Ta Bu needs your help. --Gmaxwell 04:33, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
There's an issue of principle beyond the legal issue. This is "the free encyclopedia." 100% free content is neither realistic nor desirable. But the closer we can get the better. Chick Bowen 05:06, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
I question this. What non-free images do we actually need? I'd argue that we need none of them. If Debian can produce a 100% free operating system, Wikipedia can produce a 100% free encyclopedia. Our tolerance of non-free images only creates problems. We would be better off deleting the whole lot of them. --Tony Sidaway 15:33, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:WikiProject Fair use has been trying to deal with this problem for some time. You might want to join rather than duplicating effort.Geni 05:27, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

To an extent WikiProject Fair use has created some of the problems, including the one that Ta Bu is complaining about here. The most notable and pertinent flaw in the approach favored by the active members of Wikiproject fairuse is the over reliance on vague boilerplate justifications, and a lack of any concern over the replacablity of the works in question. As far as I can tell, the state of Wikiproject fair use is much like the effort which was made in late 2004/early 2005 to run around and tag unlicensed works as gfdl-presumed: well intentioned but misguided. They've made an effort to improve things, but it seems that most of their actions have as an unstated starting requirement that they don't disrupt the longstanding abuse of fair use on Wikipedia. Unfortunately, a stronger approach will now result in the deletion of tens of thousands of images and *few* users are willing to commit to that sort of effort or the angry response it will draw from uninformed users angered by the loss of pretty pictures.--Gmaxwell 05:55, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
I am willing to take on angry editors, if they have been uploading images as fair use when the images are patently not being used correctly. - Ta bu shi da yu 09:27, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Copyright problems/Fair use claims too. --Duk 05:41, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I think that the current tolerance of such images is due in large part to the fact that some editors, including admins, have uploaded a large number of them and that they, and their allies, have thwarted any attempt to delete them. -- Kjkolb 09:57, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Yes. I believe you've made an important point here. It can also be said that we too often allow these people to continue speaking as though they were authortative on the subject... thus spreading the misunderstanding. --Gmaxwell 17:45, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
There is a huge amount of effort required just to get our fair use images to a state where we can monitor the fair use claims. Wikipedia:WikiProject Fair use isn't there yet, there's so much to do. If you have a problem with that, please come over there and help us, don't criticise us. And whatever you do, stop deleting things out of process; whether it's correct or not, it just causes ill will. Orphan the images and tag them as orphans, list them on WP:CP or WP:IFD, whatever, but don't do things out of process. Thanks, JYolkowski // talk 16:22, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
In my opinion, WikiProject Fair use isn't there because it rejects the assistance of users whos idea of correcting fair use problems on Wikipedia involves removing large numbers of images rather than creating lengthy chains of process and pretzel logic in an attempt to justify a fair use claim for almost every image we're already using. Although that is only my personal opinion based on my own limited interaction with Wikiproject Fair use, I believe it is quite clearly supported by fact that the only mention of any form of removing content on the project page is in the context of adding more justifications to prevent the removal.
Since there is no mention of removing violations in Wikiproject Fair use's goals, I'd say that this entire discussion is outside of the scope of your project. Please stop trying to obstruct the work of others. --Gmaxwell 17:45, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
More the case that we asssumed that once people understood what was allowed under fair use they would stop uploading stuff which was not.Geni 23:37, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure if deleting all these covers will do any good, because different people will just upload them again. If you have a template for Time covers, people will assume Time covers are okay to use, and then to delete them later just causes hard feelings in the people who took the time to upload them thinking they were doing something kosher. We should figure out a way to easily prevent people from violating fair use in the first place, otherwise this will be a permanent cycle of upload and delete. Gamaliel 23:44, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

In that case, I encourage admins to start speedy deleting any new images that have existed on the site for more than a day without fair use rationales. The one day limit will give people a chance to upload the image and then add the fair use rationale: I know that it sometimes takes this long to add it when I upload a fair use image. - Ta bu shi da yu 07:48, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I am personally going through my past image uploads, by using the image upload log, and based on the new copyright criteria and other things that were instituted, I got rid of about 30-40 of my uploads. Some of them were FU orphans, some were formerly tagged with licenses such as CanadaCopyright. I encourage all admins to repeat this, with their own files, and see not only how many image/copyvios we could solve, but also reflect on what we did in the past. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) Fair use policy 07:53, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

User:Charlemagne the Hammer[edit]

User:Charlemagne the Hammer recently began removing significant content from Federalist No. 1 and Fiduciary. Apparently, he has become disenchanted with Wikipedia and wishes to remove the content that he has added. I blocked him for 24 hours after he failed to heed several warnings and continued to blank the aforementioned articles. I also pointed him to WP:OWN. I would appreciate it if another admin or two would take a look at the situation, particularly, User talk:Charlemagne the Hammer. Thanks. —Wayward Talk 08:14, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Sigh. IMO, looking at it, it'd be a waste of time. I think only Jimbo or the ArbCom will make him understand, he won't listen to anyone else I don't think. NSLE (T+C) at 08:18 UTC (2006-03-05)
Sigh2, I tried to ask him why he was unhappy but he wouldn't even start to talk about his issues, I checked on #wikipedia and he's not blocked, so I really don't know what to say about that one -- Tawker 08:30, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
It looks like being banned from Wikipedia's IRC channel was the trigger. It is not clear precisely what he was banned for, but he says that he was just discussing his views about the wiki nature of the encyclopedia. He also claims that he was ridiculed. Here is an excerpt from his talk page.

"So, you can imagine how upset it makes me to see groups of Wikipedians with plans to make Wikipedia a moderated site. I even saw one group proposing a parliamentary Wikipedia. In my mind, this takes away from the concept of Wikipedia being not just an encyclopedia, but a wiki as well. I voiced these concerns on the Freenode #Wikipedia channel and was promptly banned." "...I do not want my material being used by a foundation that ridiculed and banned me from its IRC channel merely because I was expressing ideas that are supposedly fundamental to its ethos. Banned for supporting the wiki ethos, banned for supporting the "you can edit this article now" ethos. It's a shame, but that's what happened, and that's why I want to leave."

Is there a record of IRC discussions? -- Kjkolb 13:12, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Two points:
  • The #wikipedia IRC channel is not an official channel
  • Publishing of logs from said IRC channel is not permitted
Rob Church (talk) 01:11, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
That is unfortunate. Thanks, Kjkolb 08:43, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Template:Album[edit]

Looks like an apparently accidental edit to this template causes the most recent outage. I've preemptively protected it as a high-risk template. --cesarb 22:44, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

More detail: if I understood the conversations on #wikipedia-tech correctly, the cause was that changing the template to remove the image caused the problem while updating the file links for the image. --cesarb 23:14, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
If it is protected, how is someone going to modify the "to-do" list that is also on the template? Zzyzx11 (Talk) 06:03, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Never mind, seems that it was removed already. [5] Zzyzx11 (Talk) 06:04, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
If it's usually anonymous and new users who mess with templates, which seems to be the case in my experience, though it may not be representative, why not semi-protect it and other high-risk templates instead? -- Kjkolb 11:58, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
The high-risk templates are protected against vandalism, which can also come from logged-in users. This template in particular could bring the whole house down, so I went for full protection until the developers say the bug has been fixed and it won't happen again (however, if some other admin wants to unprotect it, I won't complain or revert; I'll just later point and say "I told you so."). --cesarb 14:25, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
That is why I used the qualifier usually. :-) For a template that can bring the whole website down, I would not argue against letting only admins edit it, or creating an even greater level of protection. Still, for templates that are not as critical, I don't think semi-protection is unreasonable, especially when what is high-risk is ill-defined, which leads to non-admins being excluded randomly. -- Kjkolb 12:04, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Dyslexic Agnostic final decision[edit]

This case has closed. Full details are in the final decision at the link above.

In brief:

  • T-man, the Wise Scarecrow banned for six months Held off during the mentorship
  • T-man, the Wise Scarecrow placed on personal attack parole
  • Dyslexic Agnostic placed on personal attack parole
  • T-man, the Wise Scarecrow placed on Probation
  • Dyslexic Agnostic placed on Probation
  • T-man, the Wise Scarecrow placed under Mentorship

Two to three mentors, administrators knowledgeable in the case, to be chosen at a later date.

For the arbitration committee. --Tony Sidaway 15:03, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

im sorry but didnt t-mans 6 month block, pass only with second choice votes included therefore making it a second choice resolution to the mentorship, an admin should verify the decison before enforcing the 6 month blockBenon 00:10, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I'll have to add my voice here, I'm concerned that it was considered passed 8-0-0 (if anything, it should be only 6 (2)-0-0). If mentorship works, I have to question why a ban is needed? NSLE (T+C) at 00:42 UTC (2006-03-07)
As I noted earlier, the ban passed as well, but is superceded by the mentorship, until such time as the mentorship breaks down or the mentors decide the ban is appropriate. To be clear: T-man should not be blocked at this time. Dmcdevit·t 00:48, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
The two conditional comments under the 6 month ban are phrased in a confusing manner. This is the 3rd draft of this comment, and I'm still working out what Dmcdevit and Mindspillage meant! I think they mean that if the probation passes then their votes to ban become second choices. If there is no probation, then they are simple supports which are further conditional among the 3 options presented for bans. The probation passed, so the ban is 1 vote short of majority. I think. -Splashtalk 00:53, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Okay, here goes (and I think I speak for Mindspillage as well): There were multiple banning proposals on the table. Midway through, the mentorship proposal was made, so we each made the 6-month ban our last choice in the case that the mentorship passed, (which it did), while still supporting both it and the lesser ban proposal. So, even giving our votes precedence, the lesser bans failed due to lack of support, but the supports on the longer ban still hold (even as second choice), so it passes. We did not oppose it. 6 month ban and mentorship pass (and the other remedies). Regardless, the ban is put on hold for the mentorship. Dmcdevit·t 01:05, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I think Dmcdevit's clarification is fine. We go with the mentorship and the ban is waiting in the wings. I think that what is missing from the proposed decision page is an implementation section, a summary by a clerk of what he understands the final decision to be. From now on I'll make such a summary in any case that has entered the vote to close, and I'll also recommend this to my fellow clerks. This summary will be a subsection of the Vote to close section, and can be edited by any other clerk or arbitrator during the voting to close period. When the case is closed, that summary will be copied verbatim to the talk pages of all participants and commentators, to this page (WP:AN) and to WP:AER. Any arbitrator who signs off on the decision will also, therefore, sign off on the implementation. --Tony Sidaway 01:11, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

That's fine for future cases, but what about this case? The wording of the final decision still isn't clear, and Dmcdevit's clarification isn't represented anywhere on the final case page. Indeed, since the final case page says "All remedies that refer to a period of time, for example to a ban of X months or a revert parole of Y months, are to run concurrently unless otherwise stated", it seems to indicate that T-man's mentorship doesn't begin until after the 6-month ban. I understand that that's not the committee's intention here, but the page should reflect that. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 01:22, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Well the thing about Wikipedia is that it's a wiki. I've modified the implementation of the decision on WP:AER and (in this edit) here. I'll add as implementation section to the final decision in this case, and such sections will be rolled in to current cases as they approach a motion to close. --Tony Sidaway 02:05, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. I would have made the edits myself, but I wasn't sure whether it was appropriate for someone not affiliated with the ArbCom to edit a decision. —Josiah Rowe (talkcontribs) 02:10, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Chinamanjoe[edit]

Opinion requested: should Chinamanjoe (talk · contribs) be blocked as an inappropriate user name? (The edits appear to be legitimate so far.) --Nlu (talk) 01:24, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I'd say no. Chinaman was a name for several 19th century ships, at least one of which I belive survives, and is also a cricket term. Chick Bowen 02:31, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
We even have an article on the cricket thing: Left-arm unorthodox spin. Chick Bowen 02:33, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Unless there's evidence to suggest that he's not a Chinese guy called Joe, racist or questionable edits, or somebody stating they are offended by it, I don't see why we should. --kingboyk 04:21, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Logging[edit]

I may not be the first to figure this out, but I've figured out a way to ad an article without it getting on New Page patrol. (That is not to say the action is not logged in another place...) I don't want to spill the WP:BEANS, so see the history at Paleofecalphiliology. I'd like to suggest a change in software (I think?) that would log such an action at Newpages, but really haven't an idea how to file a bug (let alone know if my suggestion is viable). Suggestions? --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 05:45, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

http://bugzilla.wikipedia.org/enter_bug.cgi to submit bugs my friend, and yes it's probably a good idea to submit this, I can't look into it since im not an admin, but I am taking your word for it. Mike (T C) Star of life2.svg 06:33, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I have the technical acumen of a caveman, but I've managed to file a bug at bugzilla. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 08:31, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
If it's what I think it is, it'll show up quite nicely on Recent Changes. --Carnildo 07:47, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
And in one other (far less watched) log, yes, but its very sneaky and easy to miss if you aren't really looking for it. I don't use a bot on RC patrol, so I do not know if this would stand out or not. But there is also the logic that if a new article appears in the article namespace, it oughtta be in the New Page log. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 08:30, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Political userbox undeletion vote statistics[edit]

I compiled the number of article edits and date of first edit for those who are voting on the undeletion of political userboxes at Wikipedia:Deletion review/Userbox debates. There are probably mistakes in my tally, feel free to correct.

Undelete[edit]

  1. Piotrus - 13147 - 2004/04/10
  2. Halibutt - 10669 - 2003/11/27
  3. The Tom - 7067 - 2003/06/01
  4. Enochlau - 4610 - 2004/01/04
  5. CesarB - 3948 - 2003/02/13
  6. Revolución - 3456 - 2005/05/21
  7. Radagast - 3244 - 2001/12/13
  8. Thryduulf - 3211 - 2004/12/26
  9. Mike Rosoft - 3127 - 2004/06/11
  10. Ombudsman - 2743 - 2005/02/26
  11. Ynhockey - 2619 - 2004/11/08
  12. Siva1979 - 2081 - 2006/01/06
  13. Karmafist - 2058 - 2004/08/09
  14. D-Day - 2001 - 2005/07/21
  15. JDoorjam - 1734 - 2005/07/04
  16. Locke Cole - 1608 - 2005/09/25
  17. E._Brown - 1281 - 2005/01/10
  18. Palm_dogg - 1130 - 2005/10/11
  19. RadioKirk - 1026 - 2005/06/14
  20. Cuivienen - 1021 - 2005/11/15
  21. StuffOfInterest - 991 - 2005/05/24
  22. Cynical - 690 - 2004/05/22
  23. SushiGeek - 651 - 2005/09/04
  24. Blu Aardvark - 655 - 2005/07/08
  25. Ian13 - 576 - 2005/10/30
  26. Ian3055 - 533 - 2005/10/27
  27. Mike McGregor (Can) - 485 - 2005/10/11
  28. Rogue 9 - 433 - 2005/09/01
  29. Weatherman90 - 371 - 2005/10/01
  30. Hossen27 - 355 - 2005/11/09
  31. Pjetër Bogdani - 349 - 2005/12/24
  32. MiraLuka - 346 - 2005/09/18
  33. Dtasripin - 343 - 2005/04/15
  34. Keithgreer - 340 - 2005/06/16
  35. JSIN - 336 - 2005/04/02
  36. Guðsþegn - 260 - 2005/06/15
  37. Sjeraj - 151 - 2005/12/28
  38. Colle - 181 - 2006/01/21
  39. God of War - 156 - 2005/12/03
  40. Mostlyharmless - 83 - 2005/12/26
  41. The Ungovernable Force - 65 - 2006/01/01
  42. AlbertW - 25 - 2006/02/10
  43. Fkmd - 7 - 2006/01/26

Keep deleted[edit]

  1. Bkonrad - 19790 - 2004/02/13
  2. Tony Sidaway - 7449 - 2004/11/26
  3. MONGO - 5784 - 2005/01/18
  4. MarkSweep - 4893 - 2004/04/09
  5. Doc_glasgow - 4399 - 2005/04/11
  6. JWSchmidt - 2214 - 2003/02/27
  7. Dalbury - 1870 - 2005/08/09
  8. Cyde - 1645 - 2002/12/22
  9. Improv - 1046 - 2004/10/28
  10. Trödel - 944 - 2005/01/17

Those who want to have political userboxes have been cast as a crowd of n00bs with almost no article edits. This is not supported by the facts. I don't personally feel that political userboxes are useful, I just want to remind everyone that there are many experienced productive Wikipedians who think they are and we should be careful to respect them. Hopefully we are about to reach a compromise. Haukur 12:19, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Mostly what you've done here is give an excellent example of why voting is evil and stupid. NPOV and root aren't up for votes either. Just because a polling mechanism exists doesn't oblige anyone to use it or take notice of it when its results are irrelevant - David Gerard 12:29, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I like me some root! Can I vote me some root? :) Haukur 12:33, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
Saying that to an Australian may be inadvisable, shurely? Shimgray | talk | 21:50, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
Are you sure that they haven't just made hundreds upon hundreds of edits adding and modifying their userboxes? ;-) Kjkolb 13:16, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
 :-) This is why I counted only article edits. By the way - anyone who votes to give me root will also get root once I've got root. ;) Haukur 13:41, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I vote to give you a carrot and a yam. Potatoes, the other hand are stem tubers, not root tubers. Guettarda 16:21, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
*grr* This happened to me the other day too. I was going to buy crisps at the shop but noticed that they were selling variants made from other root vegetables and I decided to get adventurous. It tasted horrible. su potato for me, please. Haukur 19:56, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
What this really shows is that most people reallize there's an encyclopedia to write and didn't bother to show up for the poll. Per David, you can't vote out NPOV. - Taxman Talk 00:05, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
This was exactly the kind of rhetoric I was trying to counter; i.e. dismissing the views of people who have hundreds or thousands of article edits with a facile soundbite argument ("you can't vote out NPOV") while implying that they're a bunch of wankers who don't "reallize there's an encyclopedia to write". Haukur 23:18, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
What you've done is wallop hell out of a straw man. See Greg Maxwell's meta-analysis for a more complete picture of the demographic breakdown of those supporting regulation of userboxes and those opposing it. --Tony Sidaway 14:58, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Link for said analysis? (Forgive me if it's staring me right in the face; morning coffee has yet to kick in.) android79 15:01, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Userbox policy poll#Results, so far has a link to it. --cesarb 15:51, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Greg's analysis is indeed more complete and quite interesting. Haukur 09:36, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Email confirmation - IMPORTANT[edit]

(copied from Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Mail server blacklisted by SpamCop --cesarb 04:12, 2 March 2006 (UTC))

For some lovely reason our new mail server has been blacklisted by SpamCop, allegedly for sending mail to spamtrap addresses. (They provide no details by policy, of course, so there's no way to verify it.)

Since there's a tiny possibility that the user-to-user email feature actually could be abused, I've gone ahead and enabled the e-mail confirmation requirement for using email features. This is a bit annoying for the moment since you have to do it separately on each wiki.

I've disputed the listing, so hopefully we'll get it removed soonish and those who aren't getting email will, uh, start getting it again. --Brion 22:42, 1 March 2006 (UTC)


What this means for most users: You must go to Special:Confirmemail and tell it to email you a confirmation code. If you don't, you will not receive Wikipedia email. You have to do it with all your accounts, if you have more than one. --cesarb 04:11, 2 March 2006 (UTC) (link changed. Superm401 - Talk 06:22, 2 March 2006 (UTC))


Confirmation has worked for me on every wiki except Meta and Wikisource, even though I tried twice and waited a day for the emails. I tried again today with the same results. Is there a problem with those sites? I could not find anything about it on Meta or Wikisource, but I am not very familiar with them. -- Kjkolb 11:38, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

User:Copperchair violating ArbCom ban[edit]

User:Copperchair has edited Star Wars Episode VI: Return of the Jedi today despite being banned by ArbCom (see his talk page) from editing any articles related to Star Wars. This user has already been blocked four times since the ban was enacted. While the edit does not necessarily appear to be in bad faith, it is still a violation of his ban. --BinaryTed 18:37, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

And he still is. The second edit appears to be a valid statistical correction, however, so it need not be reverted. Septentrionalis 20:02, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
I thought that after long dragged out experiences with other problem editors (in which they should have been banned much sooner than they did; I think you guys know what I'm talking about) that it was settled that Arbcom sanctions on editing a class of articles were irregardless of the merits of any particular edit. I'm tempted to read it rigidly since Copperchair keeps reverting his user talk (which is very annoying, but not covered under the Arbcom decision)- but I will hold off on the year block until I get some feedback here. --maru (talk) contribs 22:04, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
The ArbCom decision says he's banned from editing Star Wars articles; there is no distinction made as to whether "meritorious" edits are allowed, so I'd have to say they're not. He was actually blocked just two days ago for making basically the same edit he made today. --BinaryTed 21:00, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
As I recall, I was the one who did that ban, so it's probably not a good precedent. --maru (talk) contribs 22:04, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
Understandable. Is there another admin who would like to take a look at this, or do we actually have to wait for a "bad faith" edit? --BinaryTed 18:21, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
We could ask Nufy8 or A Man In Black to take a look. --maru (talk) contribs 18:47, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

That was fairly obviously just violating the ban on purpose, so I blocked for a week. The enforcement says for up to a year, but that's not required. I'd suggest a month or more for the next one though. - Taxman Talk 05:25, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually I'd like an explanation for why this user's talk page was being reverted and why it is protected. User's have the right to edit their talk pages and blank them if they like. They can't remove vandalism warnings, etc, but everything else is fair game. I'm unprotecting unless some really good policy points are brought up that I'm missing. - Taxman Talk 21:08, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Fully-banned users are not entitled to edit anything at all, talk pages included. If he's only banned from Star Wars articles, then he can of course edit his own talk page. -Splashtalk 21:11, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I think his motive, in reverting to the "welcome to wikipedia" version, is to make his condition less evident to any johnny-come-lately users that with whom he might find himself in conflict. The fewer people aware of his restrictions, the more likely a couple violations thereof will slip through the cracks, especially if four out of ten mistake him for a clueless newbie. — Mar. 7, '06 [21:28] <freakofnurxture|talk>
Of course that's his intent, but don't kid yourself that many people are fooled by it. The first links on what links here is the arbcom decision. You could interpret the arbcom decision as a warning that needs to stay, but the rest he can change as he wants. Really there's so many people watching his edits that he's not going to get any vandalism in just because his talk page looks clean. Please stop reverting the talk page unless to replace the arbcom warning. - Taxman Talk 16:52, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

210.11.188.13 and 210.11.188.16[edit]

Multiple warnings, I issued a last warning after reverting an article twice, he vandalized again. Last vandalism on Bayeux Tapestry. The IP is registered to a school so they can be only temporarily blocked. This is also why it seems to be multiple IPs. Thanks. Raintaster 03:08, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmm, I blocked the first IP for 48 hours. But if there are multiple Ip's involved a range block may be needed. --Ragib 03:14, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
Now with semi-protection available, I generally prefer to semi-protect articles rather than to impose a range block. Obviously, range blocks may still be necessary if more than one or a few articles are being targeted. --Nlu (talk) 07:35, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Removed U2 criteria from CSD[edit]

I removed a criteria from CSD: U2: Recycling IP pages. User talk pages of non-logged in users where the message is no longer relevant. This is to avoid confusing new users who happen to edit with that same IP address. since there was no need for deleting the whole page to achieve such effect. The suggested procedure is just blanking the page (as agreed on csd talk page) and not deleting it, so the old versions get archived on the history. The complete deletion was uncalled for. -- ( drini's page ) 20:14, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't blanking a talk page cause the system to treat it as a new edit to the talk page, and so bring up the "You have a new message" dialogue? Shimgray | talk | 00:49, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
If so, perhaps a template could be made explaining that the page is just being blanked should be made to avoid confusion. After blanking the page, the template would be placed on it before saving. -- Kjkolb 10:47, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

CAT:CSD and Wikipedia:Hangman[edit]

This game is still obviously on-going, I can't find any reason why Hangman is in the CSD category. Anyone else? NSLE (T+C) at 04:30 UTC (2006-03-05)

There is no reason for speedy deletion when the game is still on-going. Can't Wikipedia games just stay on the project? --Terence Ong 04:43, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure why it is in the category either. There certainly isn't a deletion tag on the page, and I can't find anything that would be causing it to appear in this category. Not that I'm a wiki code expert or anything, but from the look of it the page shouldn't be appearing in the category. Raven4x4x 06:24, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Fixed. When I took out an extra period, it took it out of CSD for me. Odd. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) Fair use policy 06:40, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
Strange case. It seems to have manifested itself sometime around February 14, based on these diffs ([6], [7]) with a comment between the two ([8]). No clue what happened, but figured I'd point that out in case someone wanted to try to track down the glitch. EWS23 | (Leave me a message!) 06:47, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
My guess is that a template got tagged with the deletion template, and due to caching issues, and not using noinclude tags on it, the page appeared to be in the category (just a guess...) Ral315 (talk) 23:50, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/John Bambenek (2nd nomination)[edit]

I think there is a lot of ballot stuffing, both for and against, this AfD. Hoardes of anons, with 1 or 2 or zero prior edits, are flocking together to vote, with a lot of personal attacks. The subject has complained on of being accused of sockpuppetry (which he denies), (and also linked the afd in his blog). With this type of acrimonious comments flowing back and forth, I suggest others to take a look at it. Thanks. --Ragib 01:06, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I wouldn't worry about it, plus it's not something we should be posting to AN. The closing admin will take into account any sockpuppetry and the weight of the votes. Mike (T C) Star of life2.svg 01:17, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Re: Appropriateness of posting it here, I don't mind a pointer to anything that might become disruptive.
brenneman{T}{L} 01:42, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

This is a pretty extreme case; I've just done a count, and the figures for genuine versus fake or dubious contributions to the discussion (omitting those marked "comment") are:

  • Keep
    • Definitely genuine: 0
    • Fake or dubious: 5
  • Delete
    • Definitely genuine: 5
    • Fake or dubious: 8

Most of the "fake or dubious" are in fact pretty clearly fake, being editor's second, third, or only edit. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 11:38, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Sockpuppets on Macedonia (region)[edit]

Recently there have been some POV pushing sockpuppets on the above article.

Andropolus recently admitted to being Macedonian876. Macedonian876 has been blocked but only for 24 hours and that was on February 3. Could someone review thier edits and see if these 2 need to be blocked for being abusive sockpuppets of each other? Moe ε 03:36, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

The Andropolus account, leaving aside some weirdness about the choice of the account name, seems to mostly be devoted to agreeing with the Macedonian876 account on Talk pages. It does not seem to have been used to evade WP:3RR. WP:SOCK does prohibit the use of multiple accounts "to create the illusion of broader support for a position", which is what seems to be happening here. I am going to leave a note at User talk:Macedonian876. Jkelly 23:43, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Range block[edit]

I've just tried my first range block, woth the help of user:Gnetwerker, who seems to know about these things. I read through m:Range blocks, and I think that I'm OK — but following the advice there, I'm posting waht I've done here so that it can be checked. --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 11:59, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

11:55, 6 March 2006 Mel Etitis blocked "80.138.128.0/18 (contribs)" with an expiry time of
1 week (persistent vandalism from rotating IPs within this range; decalration on 
Talk:Asian fetish of determination to continue.) 
It's a pretty large block. And a week is a long time for a rangeblock. You may get some collateral damage. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 15:49, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
That resolves to *.dip0.t-ipconnect.de. In other words, this is the dialup pool of Deutsche Telekom, the largest internet provider in Germany. 82.26.165.46 16:04, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
We generally like IP bans to be 24 hours because of the risk of collateral damage. A block of a week on a single dynamic IP address is too much - a block of them much more so. Secretlondon 16:15, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. Too many innocent bystanders are going to be hit by this block. It needs to be lifted within 24 hours at the most. -- Derek Ross | Talk 16:19, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
If bystanders are hit I'm sure they'll let Mel know in no uncertain terms! I wonder how many Deutsche Telekom customers actually edit the english wikipedia. I wonder if a semiprotect of the article may be a better option. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 16:24, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Ir didn't seem that any of the addresses had been used for anything except vandalism of this article. The week was because the editor (or editors) in question have been doing this for some considederable time, ignoring blocks. The article was protected and then sem-protected for a while, but they just came back. I hoped that the week-long block might be enough to make them lose interest... --Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 16:34, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

Move this to 24 hour block if not less, you have just blocked 16,382 IP addresses. Mike (T C) Star of life2.svg 17:30, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
18!!!!!! Good God, use 24 only if you must, preferably 26+ if you can. A rule of thumb: If you 24 does not do it, then don't range block (and I have even recieved a SourceForge email to undo a 24-range block for unplugging 1/3 of a city). Another rule: if you are not sure how to get the range block right, then don't do it. Range blocks get out of hand very easily, so just be careful.Voice-of-AllT|@|ESP 22:18, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
Well how is he ever to be sure how to do one if he never tries? Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 06:50, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I do not wish to meddle in the affairs of wizards, but I have detailed all of this vandal's activities on this page: User:Gnetwerker/My Notes/Asian fetish vandal, including going through all of the edit summaries to determine whether anyone else was using that IP range. There were not. The IP range that defines the vandal is 80.138.128.0/18 (i.e. a netmask of 255.255.192.0). I don't know how these things work, but I also don't want Mel to get in trouble for something I researched. -- Gnetwerker 23:22, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

I will risk one question -- what is wrong with a /18 block on a German ISP's dial-in lines, with no record of non-offending use and no complaints? -- Gnetwerker 23:24, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
The fact that there may be registered users editing from that /18. If you believe that not to be the case, at the very least ask someone with CheckUser privileges to confirm it before blocking such a huge range for any significant time. —Ilmari Karonen (talk) 02:20, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
What is wrong is you take out 16,000 IP addresses who many belong to registered users. You could wipe out whole ISP's, heck even whole cities with that range!!! A /24 takes out 254 IP addresses. Look at http://www.intermapper.com/docs/imhelp/07-troubleshooting/ipaddressing.html#subnets Mike (T C) Star of life2.svg 05:16, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
There may. No doubt they will email the mailing list if that's the case. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 06:50, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
A lot of users don't know how to access the mailing list. Blocking a /24 is a lot, but blocking a whole /18 is ridiclious. Mike (T C) Star of life2.svg 19:21, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I would certainly agree if it were a ISP of an english speaking country. I do wonder however if a german isp would have that many editors if this wiki. I dunno. Theresa Knott | Taste the Korn 20:28, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
A lot of people from non-english-speaking countries edit this wiki. Some even are administrators. --cesarb 21:10, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
You are allowed to speak english if you live in a non-english-speaking country. Plus the largest american hospital outside of the states is in germany, plus a lot of north americans work/teach/study in europe, plus english is the language of business these days meaning a lot more people learning english. Range blocks should not be treated lightly, especially when its anything above a /24. Just be careful is all, when in doubt as for advice on the AN or from one of your admin friends. Mike (T C) Star of life2.svg 03:04, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

OK, I defer to the wisdom of the more experienced editors and admins: how does one deal with a persistent vandal originating from a /18 set of dial-in IP addresses? It would appear that the answer is you can't. -- Gnetwerker 07:16, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Put the page on your watch list. Consider semi protecting if necessary. Secretlondon 11:25, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
That is probably the best/only way, blocking it is just ridiclious IMO. Mike (T C) Star of life2.svg 17:39, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Leyasu case closed[edit]

A final decision has been reached in this case and it has been closed.

The full details are in the case at the link above.

The remedies are:

Enforcement of paroles and probations is by blocking.

For the Arbitration Committee. --Tony Sidaway 19:51, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

Category:Semi-protected user and user talk pages[edit]

...is very full of 110 semi-protected user talk pages. Many of these have been protected in a vandal flurry and forgotten about. Since we have at least a couple of anon vandal fighters and it's entirely reasonable that an anon may have legitimate cause to edit the page, including if it is 'theirs', I would ask that admin please i)remember to reverse their own protections and ii)take a look through their own protection log and see what needs doing. Thanks. -Splashtalk 21:21, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

A what if..[edit]

I found myself pondering this one day, what would happen if it was confirmed that someone who has a long valued history of positive contributions, under one user name, were in fact one of the more despised, and long hated running vandals?? And this could be confirmed to beyond a shadow of a doubt?? Would they be blocked on sight, or would their +s be allowed to be balanced against their -s?

A second but related what-if, suppose that one day Jimmy Whales woke up only to find that he had a nervous breakdown, and was in fact out of his mind, and decided to use his own account to move pages to completly random titles with the words "cheese" or "on wheels" in them? Is there anything that could be done, or would wikipedia as we know it simply collapse under the mad emperor, page-moving as wikipedia burns...

These two questions seem like two potentially interesting loopholes in established disciplinary practices--Whistle blower 22:56, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

In the first situation, I would welcome them with open arms, but some people might not be so forgiving. In the few cases this has happened (Wik), the person was discovered because he started exhibiting the same behavior that got him banned in the first place, even though he'd clocked up thousands of legitimate edits in the meantime. If they've completely avoided the old fights and have shown themselves to be good editors, I see no reason why they should not be welcomed.
For the second one, we'd be SOL until a developer could maybe lock down the system. However, that's as likely as Tampa being destroyed by a hurricane, so.. .. .. ok, maybe less likely. --Golbez 23:02, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
Jimbo's actions can be overridden by the Board, so he's not a SPOF. A developer going insane would be far more damaging (since they have root), but that's even more unlikely IMO. --cesarb 23:37, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

You could ask the same question in any situation. I'm a teacher--what would my university do if I went nuts and suddenly started failing all of my students and destroying their exams so no one could go back and grade them? The answer is, of course, that I wouldn't. What's the point of speculating? Chick Bowen 00:08, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

And if you did, something would be worked out. Let's "cross that bridge when we come to it". --kingboyk 00:13, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Also, the data is more or less backed up from time to time, and anyone can save a copy (and modify it per the GFDL), so, just like wiki-vandalism, it doesn't really matter how hard any single person tries, they can't really impact the existing information. --Interiot 00:28, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
Of course, more subtle degradation over time is still problematic, as you'd then have tradeoffs between accepting a more comprehensive up to date work, or a crappier work, with the alternative of a merge being impossibly time-intensive. --maru (talk) contribs 00:38, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

This discussion violates WP:BEANS, please close it. — Mar. 8, '06 [10:09] <freakofnurxture|talk>

Nonsense Secretlondon 11:21, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Yet another edit war, complete with possible sockpuppets[edit]

Someone emailed OTRS saying that the article Juice Games was biased; on investigation, there appears to have been an edit war between SNAFCUK (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) and Bobbins (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) ([9], [10], [11], [12], [13]). Now, despite the fact that this all happened back in September, there also appears to have been personal information posted on the user and talk pages of Bobbins; to top it off, an IRC log posted on the talk page of SNAFCUK appear to indicate that this is a sockpuppet of banned user Irate (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log). Can someone investigate further and let me know what's going on here? Thanks, Alphax τεχ 04:39, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Whether sock puppet or not, shouldn't SNAFCUK be blocked as an inappropriate user name? --Nlu (talk) 07:36, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Image:Lohan lindsay 350x.jpg[edit]

This image was uploaded as a {{promophoto}}. I believe this tag is incorrect as the image is of a paid advertisement by, according to answers.com, "a joint project of The Milk Processor Education Program (MilkPEP) in Washington, D.C., and of Dairy Management Inc., Chicago." Am I correct in calling this a copyvio? RadioKirk talk to me 06:27, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

It could qualify as both but either way we can conceivably claim fair use on it. 155.43.145.84 14:32, 8 March 2006 (UTC)
First off, it's orphaned, so fair use doesn't apply as currentl