Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive124

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Common reasons for blocks and blocking policies Azmoc (talkcontribscount)[edit]

I have already stated that I don't like the common practice when people are blocked / sent to a "cooling-off" period for non-extreme incivility, dubious personal attacks or minor disruptions. These should be treated by ignoring, walking away, calmly discussing and not by blocking. The policies clearly state, that an editor should only be blocked for personal attacks in extreme cases, and that blocks are not punitive but preventive. I don't know form what Zoe wanted to prevent me by issuing the last block, probably from commenting his/her mocking of what I did on wikipedia. Anyway, what we actually have here are policies, that say one thing (block only preventive, in extreme cases) and then we have the admin consensus, that it is OK to block for minor PA/disruption and any argumentation in the sense of "this shouldn't be done according to the policies" is defaced as "wikilawyering". The reason for only blocking in extreme cases is clear, admins shouldn't offend editors who might have a lot of work on wikipedia behind them and get involved in a heated debate by blocking them right away. It is only laziness that the admins block so often. Azmoc 20:49, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

[1] another example of harrassment. I don't want to be told "now stop that" because I tried to send a nice message to wikipedia users, I don't want to hear "wikilawyering" everytime I say something, and now what JzG said is a complete nonsense, as I didn't mention any rule or policy. Please somebody tell JzG to stop harrassing me. Azmoc 21:36, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
  • What part of the "No solicitation" at the top of my talk page was unclear? Talk page spammers should expect to rough it. The fifteen-minute block was wholly appropriate as it stopped the spamming. Mackensen (talk) 21:40, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
It's not a "nice" message. You're telling people they're wasting their time here, and they should go volunteer somewhere else, and you were spamming it all over the place. I was going to block you myself but Cyde did it first. Antandrus (talk) 21:41, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
I think a fifteen minute block was way too lenient for someone spamming 'leave wikipedia' notices. --InShaneee 21:52, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I didn't solicit for noone, I am not associated with any NGO that would need volunteers, and saying the truth about what you have to give up to be a "wikipedian" doesn't break any policies or rules here, does it? Anyway, I am going to use the message only occassionaly, so don't worry about the spamming. Azmoc 22:04, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
It shouldn't be used at ALL. This is an encyclopedia, not MySpace. Just because you have an opinion doesn't mean this is the place to go telling it to everyone. --InShaneee 22:11, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Why not? You do that too, right? You discuss the functioning of wikipedia with other users, right? You even have special places for it, right? Like village pump, right? Azmoc 22:25, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I am previously uninvolved. I've reviewed this user's contributions and history (Azmoc (talkcontribscount)) and support the current block of 48 hours. Azmoc needs to stop leaving disruptive messages and wikilawyering about it. ++Lar: t/c 22:08, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

(He's not currently blocked, the 48 hours was an old, unrelated block). --InShaneee 22:10, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Right, Lar. You reviewed my contributions and history thoroughly, I can see. Thank you for your uninformed assumptions. I am User:Ackoz previously, maybe you would want to check that out too, your way of investigating (i.e. checking nothing at all, just babbling) would find that I have like 500 indefinite blocks on that nick. Greetings. Azmoc 22:13, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
Yep, sorry, was not intentional. Too many users posting and I got into like 5 edit conflicts. Azmoc 22:32, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )[edit]

User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) is mass-moving pages from Name X. Lastname to Name FullMiddleName Lastname. We discussed this yesterday, and I suggested that he get consensus and find out which of the versions of the name is more common, as this is what is mandated by the MoS, but he did not respond, and now is doing this moving without discussion. I'm on the verge of blocking him if he doesn't respond to my impassioned plea to stop. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:05, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

He threatens to continue his moves tomorrow. I have warned him that if he does, I will block him. I am in the middle of reverting all of his moves. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:23, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I hae to leave now, and have only scratched the surface of these moves. Could somebody else please pick up from where I left off? User:Zoe|(talk) 03:31, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Maybe there's a way disable the page move tab for him (new users don't get the tab, for example). See also [3] [4] for more silliness from this guy. Phr (talk) 03:42, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
Yow, there's at least 1000 of those moves. I wouldn't even think of trying to undo them by hand. If there's not already a bot that can undo them, I'll write one. Let me know. Phr (talk) 03:50, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I would say about half of them are done; I am still working on it (slowly) and I blocked this user indefinite. While I blocked this user before, and could be seem biased, doing over 800 page moves is, in my view, major disruption. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 04:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

No reason not to show this user the door. This user clearly performed mass pagemove vandalism without cause, and Zscout is being nice enough to take lots of time out and revert. Clearly not a user equipped with constructive edits by any means. --Pilotguy (roger that) 04:45, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I stopped the page moves for now; about under 300 to go (including talk pages). Others are taking over now, which I am grateful for, since my arm is dead. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 06:06, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
This looks like a major case of disrupting Wikipedia to prove a point and I think the block was warrented as page moves on that scale are highly disruptive. - Stephanie Daugherty (Triona) - Talk - Comment - 07:11, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

All page moves have been finished as of now. If there are any move errors that I caused, let me know so they can be fixed. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 07:07, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

My petty complaints aside, I support the block. - brenneman {L} 07:16, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I also support. This user has been trouble in other areas before. JesseW, the juggling janitor 08:06, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
People that say "I see no policy saying what I'm doing is wrong", and not "What I'm doing isn't wrong" are usually wrong. I support this block. --Lord Deskana (talk) 08:18, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I also locked his user talk page, since he was begining to use that to assail me and to use it as a soapbox to prevail against the "collective punishment" he got. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 08:20, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Support block. Norton is clearly operating with m:MPOV. Zscout370's comment on irc after manually entering a few dozen (hundred?) reverts (out of 800) was something like "my arm is falling off". Sounds like exhaustion of community patience to me. I also don't understand the part about collective punishment--is Norton using the royal we? I guess that would fit (maybe he's Emperor Norton). I did find a few still-unreverted moves just now and will try to nail any remaining ones. Phr (talk) 08:28, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
    • I am going to be away for most of tomorrow, so if anything happens, let me know before yall are doing anything (unless it is reverting the page moves, which I know there is still a few out there). User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 08:35, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I think indef might be a little harsh, but this is definitely meriting of a month or six - and that's iff he agrees never to make mass pagemoves again. If not, indef seems perfectly justified. I only say this because he seems to otherwise make some good contributions. FCYTravis 11:07, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Indef is indef, not permanent. I have no problem with unblocking him if he agrees to stop the page moves and to discuss them one by one. User:Zoe|(talk) 15:30, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
      • If you decide to do it Zoe, let me know please. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 15:33, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
        • Certainly. Besides, I didn't say *I* would unblock him, only that I would support it if somebody else did it, with that caveat. Hey, I thought you were supposed to be at school! :) User:Zoe|(talk) 16:19, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
          • And *I* am not going to unblock either - I think Zscout can manage that when and if it's determined that he should return. FCYTravis 21:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
  • All pagemoves later than "Alva Blanchard Evans" of 17 July have been reverted, i.e. all the ones from his latest spree. It looks like there are some earlier sprees that need to be checked. I'll do that tomorrow. I have a semi-automated script that speeds it up some. Phr (talk) 11:58, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
  • Why didn't Curpsbot get him? I thought it blocked everyone that did large numbers of pagemoves, regardless of where? --Sam Blanning(talk) 12:40, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
    • Curpsbot hasn't been running for awhile now (Curps left). --Cyde↔Weys 13:07, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I support the block. The sheer number of pagemoves involved tells me there's just something unhinged with this guy, and he's not even bothering to attempt to achieve consensus. --Cyde↔Weys 13:07, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

From what I understand, this editor has been around for a fair while, and has generally been a positive – if sometimes prickly – contributor. Obviously his chosen method of handing this issue (posting a request at Wikipedia:AMA Requests for Assistance/Requests with a six-hour deadline before he continued the moves) was a poor one, and an obvious violation of WP:DICK. I have to ask, is this editor involved in (or has he been involved in) any other major conflicts (RfCs, Arbitrations, etc.)?

Looking at his block log, he had some significant copyright issues earlier; I don't like to see that, but then the problem seems to have stopped after a block was issued. If there aren't any other issues with this editor, might I suggest trimming the block to a week so he has time to cool down, and allowing him to return on a very short leash? TenOfAllTrades(talk) 13:35, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I concur with TenOfAllTrades. Mr. Norton's goal appears to have been making sure the full-name articles existed, moreso than making sure each article was always listed under the full name. Of course, he should have re-moved the articles BACK to the consensus name, leaving a redirect at the full name (or, better yet, should have implemented the redirects directly instead of via pagemoves), and of course, he should have stopped immediately once warned. However, I think the principle of AGF still applies. His intent appears benign even if his methods were not. Powers 13:48, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I think WP:AGF would have applied had he not been warned previously by multiple users to stop. Blatently persisting in such a manner created a LOT of extra work, and was extremely disruptive. I'm not sure so sure WP:AGF still applies once someone KNOWS that their actions are being judged unacceptable and continues anyway. - Stephanie Daugherty (Triona) - Talk - Comment - 14:13, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree that his intent was benign, just he wasn't talking with anyone. <scratches head>. Tricky one to solve. Would someone care to discuss per email with him? Kim Bruning 14:08, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

His intent was benign in the sense of "benign dictator" at best. We have this WP:OWN document cautioning against "owning" articles, but this guy seems to think he owns the whole encyclopedia and the other Wikimedia projects as well (did you see that thing on Commons)? His approach about the page moves was "show me the written policy against it or I'm going to start again at 6 in the blinking morning", which is completely incompatible with the idea of a collaborative project. Fixing his moves burned almost a whole evening for at least 3 different editors. There is no way he should be allowed back without showing evidence of serious attitude adjustment. Phr (talk) 14:41, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
That's what I said... I think. :-) Some people need to be explained to, especially if they're inexperienced in collaborative projects. Well, we can hope anyway. Kim Bruning 16:31, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm trying to talk with him. To facilitate this I have unprotected his user talk page. We'll see what happens. --CBD 12:31, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Has been unblocked by UninvitedCo. with the promise of no page moves in the next 90 days. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 17:34, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I have opened a discussion of the block at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Block of Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ). As stated there, I realize that Norton can be vexatious but I am concered that out of process blocks such as this set poor precedent and would be unfortunate if they became commonplace. Please join the discussion at that page. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 20:14, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

  • I went ahead and waived the signature stuff, so just go ahead and discuss. I'll just watch and see what happens. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 20:21, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Extreme threats by[edit]

"this is my FINAL warning, quit reverting my edits or I'll blow up your house!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" [5]

Could someone take appropriate action? Jakew 19:25, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

AOL IP. Nothing we can do, as usual. Not enough vandalism to merit a anon-only block for a while. I'd suggest sending a email to AOL's abuse report monkie---people. --Avillia (Avillia me!) 19:32, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
Emailed AOL. Please expect a reply next year :-( Iolakana|T 20:11, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I'd suggest ignoring silly kids who say things like that. Until someone's house actually gets blown up over a Wikipedia dispute, I don't consider this any kind of realistic or worrisome threat. If you're a wikipedia editor, expect death threats. Don't we all get them? I'm not saying they're excusable, just that they're not really cause for alarm. Friday (talk) 14:42, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Established precedent on Wikipedia is that a death threat results in a guarranteed indef block. Sadly, because in this case it would mean an indef block of AOL we can't do this because of their bollixed proxy setup. I suggest keeping an eye out on this person, & if they continue in this vein we may have to consider some extreme measure, which will make the suits at AOL notice & start being more responsive. (I have one idea, but it would require a buy-in from our AOL-using Wikipedians -- & even then it might not work. Email me if you're curious.) -- llywrch 19:28, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I suppose I should clarify- of course there's no problem with in indef block on sight in cases like this- I just hope people don't also get bent out of shape by the threats. Friday (talk) 19:43, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Request further review Pat87222[edit]

I had been the recipient of I believed personal attack, however on intitially posting this to WP:PAIN it became apparent the the issues involved also centre on my wikipedian and personal abilities as a doctor to contribute to Temporomandibular joint disorder. As there were therefore both incivility and content disputes, WP:PAIN suggested full topic be raised here at WP:AN/I. I see between the suggestion to transfer over by User:Paul Cyr and my having the chance to submit here, a block occured and then unblocked out of wikiprocess rather than assessment of user actions/behaviour/attitude. Also note that having tried to follow WP:PAIN guidance of first posting a personal-attack warning template to the user's talk-page, the user then accused me on my talk page of vandalising their talk page. Given that events listed below now predate the temporary block discussed above - I will understand if my submission now might be superfluous...

See Temporomandibular joint disorder history & discussion, User talk:Pat8722 and my User talk:Davidruben.

It is difficult to separate out the personal attack from lesser incivility & belittling, suggestions that only those with professional specialist training in a field can contribute to an article (and that any other approach at classifying symptoms into groups indicates lack of knowledge), whether the numbers of cases presenting to a GP counts as a significant experience of the condition or not, and finally revert-protecting a list of synmptoms. What really irked was that the commonest symptom other than pain at the jaw joint itself (i.e. earche in half of patients) was repeatedly removed in the list's revert-protection as not being cited (a citation needed tag would have been more appropriate as anyone with experience of the condition should have known this was valid information even if needing a reference to be provided for the benefit of other readers), yet rare and obscur symptoms kept because listed in Pat8722 own provided citation.

  • Revert war recently re my converting a list of single symptoms into a shorter list of grouped symptoms, see 20:07, 23 July 2006 edit. Personal attack as to my credibility/knowledge with subsequent edit summary comment of "Shame on you", and when I complained to user, this response on my user page (my multiple objections to that posting given here).
  • In reply, I am now accused of vandalising his/her talk page and using words in a context I have not. As per the comments by other editors on the RfC Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Pat8722, I find this effective nit-picking attack on nuances of meaning which are not helpful to the article or to collaborating in wikipedia (?is trolling the correct word). As a minor example Pat8722 wished to peserve separate list entries for upper backpain from lower back pain. Whilst as undiagnosed symptoms upper & lower back pains may have different causes, in context of this jaw-joint disorder neither are being caused by local causes (eg kidneys for lower back pain) and are thus are referred backpain at varying points. Having provided a source that discusses the mechanism of these non-local (atypical) pains, and User:Dozenist recent significant expansion/rewrite to the article's description as to the mechanism of 3 groups of symptoms here, Pat8722 reinserts their simplist list (a revertion to its deletion) here, critises the other editor for the manner of adding additional information and accuses me of vandalism to their talk page.
  • I've had enough of this attack and repeated assertion of having deleted material when I have not (just joined up items in a list into a sentance), had my own addition of earache deleted for being unsourced (a citation-needed tag would have been sufficient, but given upto 2/3 patients with TMJD complain of earache, anyone with knowledge of the field should have been aware of this - info reinserted with refs).
  • Maybe I'm just being oversensitive, but User:Jersyko stated on my talk page "... that's one of the worst offenses I've seen here in a long time by a regular contributor." and Pat8722's further actions resulted in Jersyko's even franker response at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Pat8722 David Ruben Talk 12:47, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I've added further thoughts on Pat8722 comments onto my talk page (for fear of being accussed of further "vandalising" of their talk page if I try to respond there).


To be fair to the Pat8722, the issues were not so much about content as attitude in adding or modifying content. I've probabluy learnt something clinically in having to research citations for this artice, but just because a symptom can occur (and thus is new to me), does not make it common or therefore necessarily that clinicaly important, and by extension that important to stress in wikipedia. So whilst many of the listed symptoms are ones I had not previously encountered in clinical practice and the single source of a book without online access whilst perfectly valid as a citation source is nonetheless hard for a non-specialist to seek confirmation (one source whilst verifying that some might include a symptom within a particular disease, fails prove that consensus of specialist opinion, or more importantly give any indication as to whether it is a frequent or rare specific symptom). TMJD is presented to GPs and Dentists (source provided in discussions) and to suggest that lack of awareness of a symptom amounts to lacking any knowledge in field is a personal attack. Having now done some more thorough PubMed searching, I update my knoweldge that referred pain to the ear is even more common than my own clinical experience suggested (I would have guessed at about a third, but values from studies is between 40-60%) and have learnt that backaches (something not seen in presentation in my limited 20years of experience) also occurs and for similar referred-pain reasons as to the ear.

However this has not been about editors pointing out further sources of information to discuss whether any given symptom is common or rare (who knows maybe GPs generally or myself in particular have been overlooking a symptom), but rather it is more the antagonistic attitude to myself and other editors ijnvolved with this article that lead to a previous & ongoing Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Pat8722.

The content/revert dispute I really do not see trying to join similar muscular pains at sites other than over the jaw joint itself. ie from this:

  • Stiffness in the neck and shoulders[1]
  • Upper backache[1]
  • Lower backache[1]

to this:

  • Stiffness in the neck and shoulders, upper or lower backache.[1]

Is with repect to 'backache' symptom a case of deleting and obscurring "You deleted it. See for the proof of it. You also obscurred it...". Or that disputing this justifies the further posting with edit summary "[stop vandalizing my talk page".

Pat8722 has had several blocks in the last few months over their ability to collaborate within wikipedia (3 x 3RR edit warring and also "altering comments despite warnings"). The RfC has of course further commentary from other editors. David Ruben Talk 00:12, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


NYScholar (talk · contribs) is being difficult on Talk:Esophageal cancer, but my message here mainly concerns subtle but definite rudeness on his talkpage. What am I supposed to do with this? Could someone talk to him? JFW | T@lk 20:18, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

Could someone comment on Talk:Esophageal cancer? I stated that he had been incivil, and he removed this as a "personal attack". That's a rather broad definition of WP:NPA. JFW | T@lk 07:31, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
I had a similar experience with this editor elsewhere. I would very much like to help you at Esophageal cancer, but unfortunately the image made me unable to step over the threshold. :-( SlimVirgin (talk) 05:38, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
It was from a very nice Canadian man who recently passed away. He cried when I asked him if I could include his endoscopy picture in my teaching file, and said that he was honoured to help further medical education. -- Samir धर्म 06:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

The Onion violates WP:BEANS[edit]

This might inspire some art-imitates-life vandals worth keeping an eye out for. Then again, it might just be funny. JDoorjam Talk 00:55, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

ROFLMAO, thanks for posting this. Does this count as mention in the media, I wonder? KillerChihuahua?!? 00:57, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
I saw it in my [nerd alert] Google News alert for Wikipedia, so I don't see why not.... JDoorjam Talk 00:58, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
OMG, this is hilarious! User:Zoe|(talk) 01:45, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
LOL, it is hilarious. And alas [6] here it comes... Antandrus (talk) 02:01, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
I love it. I love the bit about Jimbo being a closeted homosexual and hot-dog freak, according to his bio. ***ERIC IS A FAG*** 03:04, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

And this on the same day, too! --InShaneee 03:11, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Hey, if you want to talk comics, Wiki recently went relatively mainstream. :) RadioKirk (u|t|c) 03:20, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Oy. It's gonna be a long, smart-ass night. JDoorjam Talk 03:22, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
What is scary about one of those Workingdaze strips is that I had a conversation last month with a marketing person who couldn't understand why I contributed content to Wikipedia for free. ("You mean no one pays you to write for Wikipedia?") GT Bacchus was there & I believe he can attest to this exchange. -- llywrch 20:12, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I'd be willing to bet that a lot of us have carried on a similar conversation... ;) RadioKirk (u|t|c) 13:51, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Also, this month's issue of Wired has an "advice" column by Stephen Colbert that recommends adding yourself to Wikipedia (bonus points for false claims that make yourself look good). --Cyde↔Weys 14:58, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Review this, please[edit]

I've nuked Wikipedia:Requests for comment/MONGO (second RfC) and the talk page. The talk page is nothing but angry flames and has no historical or process-related value, and the RFC, as Hipocite put it, was endorsed by two users who "supported off-wiki personal attacks and the revealing of personal information ... As such, there are no valid certifiers to this RFC." Thus, my deletions. My actions are up for review. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 03:46, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Commendable boldness. Characteristic of this whole ED thing has been one lurid drama-festival after another, and when the flames of one are doused, one of the unhappy participants starts another fire somewhere else. This RFC had no value and removing it hopefully will minimise further time-wastage. Good work, Jeff: that's my opinion. Antandrus (talk) 03:56, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't care that much about what happens to the RfC, although I think you were wrong, but I do find it funny that you gave any credence to what Hipocrite had to say on the matter at face value. His statement was completely wrong on every level. --badlydrawnjeff talk 14:53, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Actually, no, I do care. If it's decided that it's without merit, then that's fine, but is it typical to delete it like that? Undelete it and archive it, or userfy it so the evidence and information are available. --badlydrawnjeff talk 14:58, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
AFAIK, yes. RFCs without merit are usually deleted. Syrthiss 15:01, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps so, but three days ain't much time to consider that, especially given it had the required amount of signatures. Given that the entire basis of deletion has nothing to do with the complaints, but rather a) "angry flames" on the talk page, and b) the words of one editor taken at face value without further investigation, I think it calls it into question. I'm more interested in the evidence portion than anything else, but I find this decision more and more curious the more I think about it. --badlydrawnjeff talk 15:05, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
The standard is usually 48 hours and if it does not have the enough signatures by that time, it is usually deleted right after that or some hours later. User:Zscout370 (Return Fire) 17:33, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Which is what I thought. This specific RfC had 3. --badlydrawnjeff talk 17:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
You misinterpret my statement as saying that Hipocrite's opinion was what caused me to delete this page. Incorrect. My quote of Hipocrite is simply a reflection about how I felt about the usefullness and propriety of the RfC.. his words, essentially explaining my decision. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 15:25, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
I didn't support any off-wiki personal attacks nor revealing of personal information. I was the one called a troll, by name. To say I am not a valid user to bring an RfC, and then to unilaterally delete it, is a sign that there is an entire cadre among the admins that just feel they are better than long-term users and just don't give a shit whether non-admin users are abused - nay, a cadre among admins that ENDORSE when non-admin users are abused. And you're one of them.
Hooray cabal! --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 03:43, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Hipocrite is a troll of the first order, as he has frequently just plain lied in order to get his wikidick sucked. You bought right into his lies. SchmuckyTheCat 17:54, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps you didn't read what I wrote, rather than the alternative... I made my decision, I just used Hipocrite's quote to explain it. --Jeffrey O. Gustafson - Shazaam! - <*> 03:43, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I love it when not-trolls tell me that I'm just plain lying to get my wikidick sucked. Hipocrite - «Talk» 18:04, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

You implied on the deleted RfC that I should be banned for "longer and longer periods of time" with the insuation that I'd been blocked previously, and was a troll of the first magnitude, for simply voicing opinions relevant to matters at hand, and for voicing my reasons in good faith for why certain articles should be retained. Virtually all my posts on this whole mess have been along the lines of disproving what I felt were incorrect statements, or revealing relevant information based on incontrovertible evidence that was being left by everyone all over Wikipedia. That's it. You also posted in the RfC and AfD comments like "such and such is a meatpuppet" or "such and such is a sockpuppet" to discredit others. When pressed by multiple editors to justify and prove your comments, you replied that you refuse to do so as it would "reveal IP information", which if it's not in WP edit history you as a non-admin should have *NO* access to based on Wikipedia rules. You really should disclose if you do have access to such information. When asked to then remove your inflammatory and unproven accusations, you simply refused. I'll note that any connections of evidence and behavior I pointed out were backed up with diffs, or common patterns of posting by others, which were in plain sight. rootology 18:28, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Stop trolling. Hipocrite - «Talk» 18:51, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
So you agree with the same misinformation he put out there regarding the matter? --badlydrawnjeff talk 15:28, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Not trolling, just clearing up factually incorrect misrepresentations made about me. You still have never answered the questions based on your statements of where you had obtained IP information that you should not have access to on WP. As you had firmly insisted previously that revealed IP information on WP be removed (see the previous Karwynn situation), I ask that in good faith you do so now. rootology 18:59, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps the problem is that too many people with additional buttons are taking too much unilateral action on this whole case, end to end, above and beyond what they should have. Half the contentiousness and vitriol that has been (needlessly) generated with this whole ED thing from the beginning was because of people doing things as is they 1.) are in charge of the WP project; 2.) no regard for process--knowing full damn well that they're only going to incense people by not doing it right or by the book; 3). perhaps it's time for additional community (editor) level oversight of admin actions. Any project like this were anyone is above reproach will in the end fail as the project sways more and more in the horrid direction of cronyism. rootology 15:37, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Or perhaps the problem is too many people elevating WP:ILIKEIT over WP:V, WP:NPOV and WP:RS. That or too many trolls. Take your pick. Just zis Guy you know? 21:44, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, that's the answer! More bureaucracy! For heavens sake; every year the project as a whole gets more inclusionist. Mackensen (talk) 21:47, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Hum...I wondered where that went I know. For the record, I looked through the deleted pages of the ED article and saw nothing that I thought were personal attacks I had made, but that is my perception. Let's write an encyclopedia.--MONGO 16:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

SlimVirgin requested me to not edit article[edit]

SlimVirgin, a Wikipedia administrator, today requested that I not edit the article New Anti-Semitism for a couple weeks in order to allow here to assume good faith on my part or "there will be consequences". Is this proper? If I do edit that article, and in a proper manner using sourcing and being NPOV, would I be violating AGF with SlimVirgin? Here is the comment (emphasis added):

"I would ask you not to embark on any editing of New anti-Semitism that is likely to be contentious. The article was disrupted for several weeks by HOTR, and as we're still dealing with the fallout of his behavior at Allegations of Israeli apartheid, this would be a provocative time to start it up again at NAS. I'd therefore appreciate it if you could leave it for a couple of weeks, at least, as a sign of your good faith. When you do start to edit, all that matters is what reliable sources have said about it. We shouldn't insert our own opinions. The best sources to use are academics, and these should be used whenever possible because there are many such sources available on this topic. Next down, well-known journalists/writers/researchers in that field writing for serious publications. If we stick to those, we should have no problem. SlimVirgin (talk) 19:09, 25 July 2006 (UTC)"
"I can't see a reason to request that I should refrain from editing it when I am ready -- can you point to the relevant policy? With regards to sources: I have experience writing at an academic level -- for example, I have a number of published papers, including one earlier this year in the top computer graphics journal. I have had quite a few positive citations, and adoption of my innovations, from leading academics at Stanford University, Pixar, Industrial Light and Magic, UCLA, and Berkely University. --Ben Houston 19:26, 25 July 2006 (UTC)"
"Your policy request is another example of the process fetishism that has caused so much trouble. I am requesting that you delay your edits as a sign of your good faith. If you want me to assume there is no good faith, fair enough, but understand there will be consequences[†], and we'll be back to square one with the nonsense Homey started. As for writing at an academic level, we very precisely do not write as though we are academics, who are allowed and encouraged to express their own views. We publish only what reliable sources have already published, and all contentious edits, or edits that are challenged, must cite a reliable source. We don't add our own opinions. We represent what the majority opinion is among reliable sources; next down, we represent the significant minority opinions among reliable sources; and we ignore tiny-minority ones. What we think about the issues is completely irrelevant; no one is interested in our personal views. I can't stress that enough. SlimVirgin (talk) 19:46, 25 July 2006 (UTC)"
† highlighting added by Ben Houston

No one is seeking any sanctions against myself on any issues. I do not think it is appropriate that I be held accountable for someone else's actions. What is the appropriate course of action? Should be refrain from editing as SlimVirgin requests for 3 weeks because otherwise, in her words, "there will be consequences"? SlimVirgin has over 300 edits to the article in question, it does feel, from my perspective, that she is exerting ownership over it. --Ben Houston 06:04, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Guys can be virgins too... --mboverload@ 06:07, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
But she's a she. I know because her user page is purple :) Thatcher131 06:44, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Purple doesn't mean anything. The "This user is a female contributor." userbox, however, might mean a bit more. :) ~Kylu (u|t) 06:47, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Au contraire, purple is symbolic of royalty, and protection, according to... a Hardy Boys book I read back in middle school. (And you thought I was going to say according to Wikipedia. Pshaw, how cliche.) JDoorjam Talk 07:27, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I'd suggest waiting to see what the ArbComm decides in the case Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Israeli apartheid. The decision there may resolve this issue. --John Nagle 06:57, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

While strongly worded, My initial reading of that was wrong, Slim's suggestion is well within bounds, but the use of the word "consequences" is unfortunately non-specific. I see now that it was more in the line of "it may mess up the detante" and less of "and you'll regret it." All editors are advised to tread carefully and source hygienically around contentious articles. While "acouple of weeks" is a long time, there are lots of other articles to edit aren't there? Nothing at all to see here, move along. - brenneman {L} 08:00, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

NOTE: SlimVirgin modified the original report, without comment except in the edit history, soon after I wrote it to remove my highlighting and mention of her non-specific threat of "there will be conseuqneces" -- see this edit of her [7]. --Ben Houston 13:16, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, well that would be because you modified her original statement without making it clear that the highlighting was in fact your work…I have remedied your omission (see † above). HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 13:45, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
I did disclose that I added emphais, see my introductory note which says "Here is the comment (emphasis added):" -- I will make it more prominent if there is a next time though. SlimVirgin modified the title of my request as well from "SlimVirgin requested me to not edit article or 'there will be consequences'?", which mentioned the threat to more harmless seeming "SlimVirgin requested me to not edit article" -- that was frigging weird that she would do that. I made the mistake of not mentioning the threat in the intro text thus the bold and the title were the only places -- both of which she deemphasized in her edit. I don't mind being told that what she did is okay, but modifying my report to change its focus is weird. --Ben Houston 14:12, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Ben, as far as I can tell, you can edit the article, nobody owns it. It is good she made her point clear, but that does not imply you have to obey her request. -- Kim van der Linde at venus 14:48, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

"The article was disrupted for several weeks by HOTR" - A brilliant statement which both ignores common courtesy and anything resembling assuming good faith in the editor. --Avillia (Avillia me!) 14:45, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

And yet true. Proto::type 15:37, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

NOTE: SlimVirgin once again, see [8], modified my complaint without comment on this page except in the page history log -- strangeness indeed. --Ben Houston 15:10, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

NOTE: SlimVirgin modified the title once again [9]. --Ben Houston 19:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Avraham sockpuppet case[edit]

I am a little baffled by this suspected sock puppet case against an admin, Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Avraham. It appears to be made in bad faith against him, since he accused another user of sockpuppetry. Any comments are appreciated. Iolakana|T 14:42, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

I agree with you, Kilo: this certainly looks like a bad faith case, considering the circumstances and the evidence presented by Avraham. I can attest for the seriousness of Avraham both as an editor and as an admin. I wouldn't take this very seriously, and I'm sure it will get cleared in his favor pretty soon. Phaedriel The Wiki Soundtrack! - 03:02, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry to hear people think I made the accusation in bad faith --- I can assure you I did not. I thought I laid my suspicions out clearly. If I'm wrong, fine, but I think I detect a hint of favoritism in this decision. As far as this being a retaliatory case, if you read Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/SkipSmith you'll see Avi is the one who actually filed a sockpuppet case in retaliation (note the line "I was hoping I would not have to do this, but Skip's accusation forces me down this road"). SkipSmith 00:49, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Dig pages[edit]

User:Hillman has created a set of "dig" pages to track users. Purporting to be "personal notes" for an essay, they record edits by IP addresses and user accounts and group them under presumed real-life identities, with WHOIS and other information. These are not vandals, but users deemed by Hillman to have made "bad" edits. Each page notes that some of the information "may be sensitive and therefore should not be widely publicized if this can be avoided," and yet they reside on one of the highest-traffic sites on the Web, and show up in Google searches. I've contacted Hillman, but she won't discuss the matter on-wiki. Do these pages contravene the "Posting personal details" section of the blocking policy? Are they an appropriate use of Wikipedia? Tim Smith 18:13, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

They are the same stuff that shows up here at ANI, and in RFC's, and suchlike, all the time. I'm not too bothered. I disagree with some of the stuff on User:Hillman's user page but overall it's one of the most interesting wiki-essays I've seen so far, and I'm satisfied about Hillman's motives. Anyway, anyone interested in wiki-abuse issues keeps notes like that. At least with Hillman, you know what s/he is writing down about you (if anything). Lots of others maintain this kind of data privately and exchange it with each other on closed wikis or by email. Which of those practices (Hillman's or the alternative) creeps you out more? Phr (talk) 20:15, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Legitimate tracking of long-term POV vandalism. Nothing to see here... Just zis Guy you know? 21:32, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Seems to be a quite legitimate effort to document and research vandalism and POV-pushing on Wikipedia. FCYTravis 00:47, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Tim, if you will just give me a chance, I have sought and recieved some valuable admin feedback and am about to make some changes (beginning by retracting that silly "no link" thing). I was trying to avoid a public furore to increase the chances that I will actually find time to finish my essay on User:Hillman/Digging, which ironically is intended as a first step on the long road to proposing, discussing, and establishing a policy on when digging is and is not appropriate. Since the furore arrived before I could finish my essay, I am considering a volte face and may nominate these pages myself for RfC or even MfD. Please give me a chance to consider how to to that since I think the Sarfatti and Haisch pages have legitimate uses in addition to background for my essay. Your cooperation is appreciated! ---CH 22:02, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I have asked Tim to give me a chance to RfC the pages in question, so trust this is now moot. I ask DrL (talk · contribs) and others not to edit the pages, at least not during the RfC (but I thought it was in bad taste to edit pages in another users user space if they have asked that others not edit these pages?) ---CH 23:02, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Some of the tracked users are POV-pushers or vandals, but others seem to be good-faith contributors whose connection to "alternative" theories put them under Hillman's radar. They range from notable public figures like Bernard Haisch (who mentions his conflict with Hillman in a recent LA Times op-ed) to pseudonymous editors about whose real-life identities Hillman speculates at length. The "Posting personal details" section of the blocking policy states that "Users who post what they believe are the personal details of other users without their consent may be blocked for any length of time," and publicizing presumed real-life names and places of residence would seem to contravene it. (If the policy carries implicit exceptions, those need to be made explicit.) I appreciate that Hillman's goal is to formulate a policy on when "digging" is and is not appropriate, but it is obviously premature to make the digging public before the policy has been formulated. Tim Smith 23:09, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
  • This might help in understanding Tim's concern about CH's tracking pseudoscience edits. Phr (talk) 02:54, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Careful, Phr—I've already had to warn you to assume good faith with me. I'm by no means the only user concerned about these pages; see here, here, and here. (The last of these is a notable public figure.) That's no surprise, since they violate numerous Wikipedia policies and guidelines including WP:BLOCK, WP:CIV, WP:AGF, WP:NPA, WP:NOT, and WP:USER. There's maybe some leeway for tracking hard-line POV pushers and vandals, but the rest need to go. Tim Smith 13:58, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Let me just say I am also very concerned about this. I appreciate Hillman's efforts to help develop a digging policy; however she is one of the (if not the) top diggers, and I believe much of what he has done and is doing in that regard is beyond the pale. This is not a new issue - a few months ago there was a major controversy about that (from Hillman's talk page: User_talk:Hillman/Archive9). I think a reasonable summary of that is that most of those who looked into and understood what Hillman was doing were against it.
Out of the many problems with what Hillman is doing, let me just point out a few: (1) there is usually no "probable cause" - a lot of the people targetted have not actually done anything in violation of WP policy or anything disruptive or otherwise wrong, they have merely given Hillman some vague reason to be concerned that they might (2) the data presented is extremely circumstantial, and its interpretation error-prone, often no better than a wild guess and (3) it violates explicit WP policies. ObsidianOrder 19:24, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Hillman/Dig. ---CH 00:17, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
  • I have been targeted by Hillman and have not violated Wikipedia policy. I did link to a bookseller to provide a reference, but this was done to support the citation. It was removed and I did not object. For this infraction, I now have a Hillman Dig page where my edits are tracked and conjecture regarding my personal identity is posted in violation of WP. I can see the need to have some way of monitoring repeat vandals, but this type of monitoring can so easily become abusive (as it already has). DrL 00:58, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

As this seems to be the precursor for the discussion of what could be a very good policy proposal, perhaps all this should be taken up under the MfD page instead of AN/I. rootology 01:05, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Request to have six pages (redirects) protected[edit]

Text is based on earlier request by Suedois at 18:05, 11 July 2006 (UTC) in Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive119. The infamous Kven editor, under new usernames all the time, is repeatedly recreating forks, at Cwen, Kvæn, Kveeni, Qven, Quen and Kvenland. They are, and have always been, newer cut-and-pastes of material written in the original page, now split into Kven and Kvens of the past. Any block against Kven editir is not highly efficient, as (s)he shows a pattern to create a new username (recent days, User:WeBeToys and User:TheTruth1 at least) to continue same edits. As it is clear that cut-and-paste forks are not allowed, could somebody freeze the situation of those six redirect pages, with indef protection against editing and moving. After all, no one should have any legitimate interest to edit anything in those redirects. Let us have a situation where only the oldest articles are the battleground, and not also several forks. --Labongo 19:08, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

Done. Just zis Guy you know? 21:27, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
The same unknown user seems to be creating every two days a new user name for himself and places a highly erroneous article on page Kvens of the past fully over-writing the current article and refusing to comment his actions in any way on the talk page even if that has been asked. Semiprotection on the page would be appreciated. --Drieakko 19:00, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps we should create an entry in Wikipedia:Long_term_abuse? The user seems to have been active for quite a long time. The pattern seems to be: changes to the Kvens of the past article, changes to the now protected redirect pages above, abusive comments in Talk:Kven, and personal attacks against two earlier Kven article editors User:Mikkalai and User:Leifern. But earlier (s)he have also added his “Kvenland” theory to many other pages, including many articles about municipalities and villages in Northern Norway.--Labongo 03:51, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Emico sock proxies and Iglesia ni Cristo[edit]

I've been involved in a dispute with User:Emico who has been banned by arbcom over his edits to Iglesia ni Cristo. Over time he's been trying to edit the article using Proxy IPs and sockpuppets. However, recent developments over the article have caused him to edit to his POV in a circular fashion. As a result, User:Voice of All semi-protected the article. Since the protection, emico sockpuppets and proxies have been attacking me over on my User talk page and Talk:Iglesia ni Cristo. I've semi protected my talk page. Now it seems he intends to take the problem beyond Wikipedia, as shown by this link which I refuse to visit. After taking advice from other admins. I've went ahead and semi-protected Talk:Iglesia ni Cristo. Your input? --LBMixPro<Speak|on|it!> 03:02, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

  • I clicked on the link. Big mistake. Not that my computer blew up, but I'll have to wash my brain before I go to bed. Semi-protection was a reasonable choice. RyanGerbil10(The people rejoice!) 04:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't even want to know what garbage he wrote on that forum. but glancing at INC related forums at that site, it's full of Encyclopaedia Dramatica style crap. I've added this incident to his arbitration case as well as called User:Voice of All about this. --LBMixPro<Speak|on|it!> 04:41, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I am not sure there is much I can add here.Voice-of-All 18:21, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Pschemp will probably block me (?)[edit]

moved from the Villiage pump pschemp | talk 13:01, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Hi, I'm posting here because I'm not really sure where else to turn for help. I fully expect my account (Andy emigré) to be blocked by User:Pschemp for making this edit, if only because it raises questions about the appropriateness of his/her blocks, the one on myself included. I realize Wikipedia suffers considerably from trolls and vandals, but really--Pschemp's blocks on myself and this "No Chinese allowed" guy seem not to be aimed at reducing vandalism, but rather at silencing criticism of his/her own behavior.

So, could someone (1) keep an eye on the page "User:No_Chinese_allowed" to make sure Pschemp doesn't erase my comment, and (2) make sure he/she doesn't block me in retribution for whistleblowing, if such behavior is indeed inappropriate according to whatever relevant rules may exist? Thanks in advance.

Andy emigré 08:14, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

One more thing I wanted to ask. Am I correct to infer that there's no oversight to curb this sort of administrative abuse? Or was Pschemp justified, after all, in deleting my comments and blocking my account? If the latter, my apologies for wasting your time; if the former, I'm left wondering how Wikipedia can keep potential editors, such as myself and those others in my department I mention in the forcibly redacted comment, interested instead of disillusioned and bitter at the forceful rejection of our contributions. Andy emigré 08:23, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Responded at user's talk.--Chaser T 08:50, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
The username policy is mainly in place to avoid a couple of things:
  • Obviously trollish accounts - "WIKIPEDIA IS GHEY" and the like.
  • Impostor accounts of varying sneakinesses - say, "Jimbo WaIes". (Note that the middle letter of the last name is an uppercase i, not a lowercase L.)
  • Untypable usernames - like "小", I'm afraid, as well as long random strings of characters. There's a standing policy on this wiki against "untypable" usernames, as they're extremely difficult to tell apart.
I don't see any evidence of blocks having been carried out outside of this policy, though. No Chinese allowed (talk · contribs) hasn't been blocked, and neither have you - and I see no evidence that either of you are going to be, either. Zetawoof(ζ) 08:56, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Well, when Pschemp blocked me (on my now inaccessible "Anonymous Andy" account) it seemed to be in direct retribution for criticizing his behavior towards the "No Chinese allowed" guy; my experiences stemmed from someone at my university had managed to get the entire department blocked under the guideline to which you refer.

The policy of blocking users without explanation and no apparent means of getting unblocked (I don't remember seeing a procedure on the block page, at least as of a few months ago when Wikipedia had my department's subnet blocked--the reason for which, again, I had to turn to offline sources to discover) is a huge turnoff to potential contributors. I just hope you understand that. Andy emigré 09:07, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

A reason was given for this diff among others and it was (personal attacks, trolling on articles) Your use of profanity and personal attacks on me are against policies and not appropriate. Yet, on your talk page, you have repeated them. It is quite obvious you are upset about the username policy and are taking it out on me. Why not do something more constructive? pschemp | talk 12:56, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I have seen several users with Chinese characters in their usernames here, and they have not been blocked. I think blocking usernames with Chinese characters (or other languages) is unfair, and sometimes names are not easy to romanize. --J.L.W.S. The Special One 10:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Whether you like it or not, its policy at WP:USERNAME and has been so.pschemp | talk 12:54, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

If by "potential contributors" he means "people who will start calling people d1ckheads" at the drop of a hat, then we can probably live without them. IIRC the "unpronounceable" chinese name that was blocked a few months ago was reported here as being either an insult when translated or the chinese characters were not resolving properly and causing problems. Syrthiss 13:14, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

  • No, that's not what I mean by "potential contributors." Now that's a little unfair; I don't think I'm being unreasonable here. Surely it's not difficult to understand that getting blocked without warning (what triggered my block was an attempt to rewrite a comment to REMOVE a personal attack on Pschemp), with no easy recourse (how can you talk to an admin when you've been blocked from editing?), and apparently for reasons of self-interest alone, doesn't endear people to your project. I'm not a "vandal" or "troll," if that's what you're implying. Andy emigré 17:50, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
How is this "removing" a personal attack? pschemp | talk 19:50, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Andy, this looks like you have been blocked in the past because of usernames that were against the username policy. So no admin abuse there. Then, instead of reading the username policy, realising that those are just the rules of the game here, you respond bitter and frustrated, and show that frustration by leaving comments about 'abusive admins'. Also, the text you see when you try to edit when you're blocked, is pretty clear in what to do when you are blocked: MediaWiki:Blockedtext. Anyway, please drop the issue, don't take it this personally, create a username that stays witin policy and start editing! If you disagree with the username policy, please go to the talk page of the policy page and start a discussion there, perhaps you can convince the community to change the policy, who knows? --JoanneB 14:01, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Wait a sec, *I* have never been blocked for usernames against policy... when did this become about me? :-P Look, perhaps you're misunderstanding my complaint? I'm not out to cause trouble here, I'm just trying to point out that administrative abuse is annoying enough to drive people away from Wikipedia. Anyway, yeah, it doesn't matter. Andy emigré 17:45, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
What abuse? pschemp | talk 19:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Apparently, this:
(a) blocking User:小 without politely giving him the chance to change his name first (even though WP:CHU recommends if you have very low numbers of edits to just start over to avoid making work for the 'crats and loading the servers)
(b) blocking User:anonymous Andy for calling wikipedians "Fucking dickheads" [10],
(c) removing the Fucking dickheads comment from User:No Chinese allowed (note: the user page, not the user talk page), and
(d) blocking his whole university department from editing (which must have been an autoblock, so I guess its your fault for not knowing his whole department uses one proxy server, and for not personally telling him that he can use wikipedia mail to contact you about the autoblock even when blocked)
So clearly you should turn over your mop immediately! Thatcher131 (talk) 20:52, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

AfD blanking & short block[edit]

Just so other people can keep an eye on it, user "Sango123" (the name that shows up on signatures, but not the name that shows in edit history) has been blanking [11] this AfD. This is after significant voting had taken place. Even if one has indisputable proof of "bad faith nomination," one does not get to blank an AfD, much less re-blank it with "rv vandalism" in the edit summary. A longer block may be called for and more investigation of the person. Geogre 14:52, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

  • Comment If they're trying to impersonate the real Sango123 (talk · contribs), wouldn't a longer block be appropriate?--AOL account 15:35, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Blocked indefinitely as a vandalism only, impersonating account. --Cyde↔Weys 15:44, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

    • My apologies to all. I saw the blanking, and then I was rushing out the door, so I didn't investigate and see that it was an impersonator. I thought it might be, but I didn't have the time to really check it out. Conversely, my thanks to everyone for going the mile I couldn't go. Geogre 18:38, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Manga copyvios[edit]

Kawaiiprinces2004 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) has added a number of pages on manga topics with text fetched directly from external websites. The user has also added a few articles containing nothing but an infobox. I know nothing about manga; I'm tempted to just tag the lot as speedies, but I don't want to bite a newbie (and very likely a child). Perhaps somebody who is interested in manga/anime could open a dialogue with Kawaiiprinces2004 and examine what is salvageable/rewritable? up+l+and 09:37, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I deleted all that I could find, as they contained nothing but a copyvio. --InShaneee 23:37, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

User:Marudubshinki running unauthorized robots[edit]

The following is copied from this edit to my userpage. -- SCZenz 16:01, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Hello, I noticed that you were responsible for blocking the robot User:Bot-maru, and thought you might be able to help with a more recent situation with its user, User:Marudubshinki. He has been running bots through his regular user account, and recieves frequent complaints about its errors. His response to these complaints is in general quite callous, and he continues to make automated edits with this user account.
My first complaint can be seen at User talk:Marudubshinki/Archive 49 under "Your - the the + the bot". Current complaints can be seen at User talk:Marudubshinki under: "Please stop fixing my double redirect", "Removing whitespace ...", "Robot removing selflinks", "Bot removing self-links is causing grief", "External link bot".
Is there anything you can do about this, as an admin? - Rainwarrior 06:28, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

The answer is, I've been aware of the problem for quite some time, but I'm not sure what to do. Marudubshinski runs an unauthorized bot out of his own account, to do minor tasks, and fairly regularly annoys people. It is undoubtedly against bot policy, a fact he's aware of but has basically shrugged off; he also routinely shrugs off complaints, by which I mean that he fixes problems but seems quite unconcerned that his bot is breaking pages. I tried emailing a member of the bot authorization group, but that never came to anything I'm aware of... So what should we do? -- SCZenz 16:02, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Block him indefinitely and only lift the block once you get a promise that he will go through the proper channels for bot authorization and never run it under his own account. --Cyde↔Weys 16:05, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I've blocked Maru indefinitely pending his assurance re bot useage. [12]. -- I@n 02:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I support this action. It's a simple thing for him to get himself unblocked. Maru has been brazenly violating policy, and continually illustrating why that policy exists in the process; as an admin, he should be setting the opposite example. -- SCZenz 02:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
He was previously blocked indefinitely for running unauthorised bots on the 13th, but unblocked himself the same day claiming the bots were shut down, and has since started the bots up again. To my mind this is a most grievous abuse of admin privileges. I've left a message on his talk page suggesting that he is under intense scrutiny at the moment and is not likely to get away with doing so again. I recommend keeping an eye on his block log until the matter is settled. Snottygobble 02:39, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
In that case the block message did say he could unblock himself when the bot was shut down, but the clear implication that unauthorized bots are not allowed was clearly ignored. Sadly support the block. Question, however, since there are a lot of bot-blocks, and User:Bot-maru was indef blocked and never fixed (or rather, moved to the main account), what happens if he promises to get approval, gets himself unblocked, and then runs the bot again? Thatcher131 (talk) 02:44, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
No, that was on the 6th. He was blocked indefinitely by AmiDaniel on the 13th, with the summary "Please request approval before running your bot." AmiDaniel also left a message on his talk page explicitly instructing him "Please email me or add {{unblock}} to have the block removed--do not unblock yourself." Maru unblocked himself and continued running his bot without requesting bot approval. Snottygobble 02:50, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
There is a pretty strong community consensus against running a bot as an admin, and it's trivial to get a new bot account, the bot policy is pretty clear that this block is supported, although I hope it will not be a reason for Maru to leave over. As for the bot actions themselves, they appear fairly harmless, but inefficient (e.g. here multiple edits were made in succession, where they could have been made at once. — xaosflux Talk 02:56, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm confused about the history re the 15th, and I'll review it again shortly. However I'd just like to say in response to Thatcher's question the following... Maru has never lied, he's just ignored policy. If he unblocks himself or promises to stop and then doesn't, I have a rather clear idea what to do, but I think that discussion is premature. Also to Xaosflux, I'd like to mention that there have been more serious issues like editing peoples' talk page comments and breaking links. -- SCZenz 03:00, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Just saw the comments related to those, and it goes back to show exactly why WP:RFBOT exists. — xaosflux Talk 03:07, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Unblocking himself[edit]

I'd also like to note that Snottygobble's statement above is 100% correct, even though at least two of us were confused. Maru did unblock himself after being explicitly instructed not to do so by Ami Daniel on the 13th. [13] [14]. -- SCZenz 03:11, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

It looks like he unblocked himself on the 13th and starting running the bot again on the 16th. And I was mixed up about the blocks, there was clearly no provision in the block of the 13th for self-unblocking. Thatcher131 (talk) 04:22, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

More serious use[edit]

More troubling than the fact that he is running a bot under his admin account is that he is running a bot that *uses his admin privs.* The delete log is pretty clear that he's running an adminbot:

  • 03:21, July 23, 2006 Marudubshinki (Talk | contribs | block) deleted "Shan bhai" (Robot: Redirect target doesn't exist)
  • 03:21, July 23, 2006 Marudubshinki (Talk | contribs | block) deleted "Shan bai" (Robot: Redirect target doesn't exist)
  • 03:21, July 23, 2006 Marudubshinki (Talk | contribs | block) deleted "1st and 15th Entertainment" (Robot: Redirect target doesn't exist)
  • 03:21, July 23, 2006 Marudubshinki (Talk | contribs | block) deleted "MDPE" (Robot: Redirect target doesn't exist)

This is greatly concerning, as the use of bots with admin privs is opposed very strongly on (with the possible exception of Curps, though his is not without it's critics, and may or may not still be running) and by the Foundation (an adminbot on another wiki was desysopped by Anthere not too long ago). Given that he's been warned numerous times not to run a bot under his admin account, has refused to comply, has added features which utilize his admin status without approval, and has unblocked himself in order to re-start the bot, I'm inclined to request a desysopping. If he unblocks himself, or if he is unblocked and resumes using the bot to execute administrator privs, I will request he be emergency desysopped and the matter referred to Arbitration, as per the precedent for emergency desysopping. Essjay (Talk) 04:44, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I might also add that his bot is prone to errors (which is actually the thing that caused this to surface). -- I@n 06:35, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

This is very disturbing. Maru is a valuable member of the community, but unblocking oneself, running unauthorized bots, and running bots with sysop privileges need to be stopped, now. He needs to understand the seriousness of his actions, or he will be losing his admin privileges. User:Zoe|(talk) 18:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps as this is a violation an admin needs to immediately block this bot's access until things are sorted. rootology 18:28, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Maru is currently blocked (see above). The Bot-maru account was blocked for the same issues; which is apparently why he was running it from his main account. Thatcher131 (talk) 18:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I am disturbed also. He remains blocked, and hasn't taken any action, and my perception of his earlier actions was that he never really understood why the rest of us kept telling him to stop. I fear we'll lose him over this, which is a shame, but I see no course other than the choice we've offered him. -- SCZenz 03:48, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Potters house spamming slanderous attacks against me[edit]

Potters house (talk · contribs) is a strong supporter of Johnny Lee Clary, a.k.a. TheKingOfDixie (talk · contribs), whose self-written article was deleted by AfD a while back despite Clary's personal attacks accusing editors voting "delete" of being "Neo-Nazis" and his attempts to tamper with the AfD process by erasing comments. Potters house (talk · contribs), a.k.a. "Nick", has tried to re-create the article under such titles as John Clary and J L Clary; since re-creating deleted content is of course a flagrant violation of policy, these articles have been deleted. Since then Nick has created articles such as Wade Watts and Operation Colorblind; since the main focus of these articles on subjects connected to Clary actually seems to be including exactly that material which was deleted by consensus at Johnny Lee Clary, I proposed that they be deleted, too.

In apparent retaliation, Nick has left, on no fewer than thirty user talk pages, identical copies of a libellous message in which he alleges that I am a "covert racist", that my "deletions are because of racial discrimination" or alternately, that "it is politically motivated, as Johnny is a strong supporter of George Bush and Antaeus Feldspar of Kerry" (a conclusion which he draws from me having made two edits to John Kerry, both reverting edits made by the notorious Rex071404 (talk · contribs), back on April 6, 2005.) It is bad enough that Nick should completely ignore the policy of Assume good faith and make these slimy, libellous, monstrous accusations on any user talk page. But he's made them on thirty! I request that action be taken to strongly communicate to Nick that vicious false accusations of this nature are not permitted on Wikipedia. -- Antaeus Feldspar 17:41, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Potters house has now been informed that his conduct is inappropriate, and that continuing along this course will result in a block. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 18:50, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


The long-term permablocked vandal Roitr (for more information see: User:Roitr/sockpuppetry) have created a sockpuppet account Aldis90. (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) to impersonate user Aldis90 (contribs: [15]) and continues revert-warring.--Nixer 18:16, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Blocked as obvious impersonation. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 18:32, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Ranks of the People's Liberation Army[edit]

Can somebody please semi-protect this article Ranks of the People's Liberation Army which is now being vandalized by sockpuppets of long-term vandal Roitr (see User:Roitr/sockpuppetry for more information) and block the socks please.--Nixer 19:54, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Request that controversial info not be removed from history[edit]

At Charles_Jacobs (political activist) we're having some disputes. Jacobs is a controversial political figure, and he has some strong defenders. Negative material that his defenders consider "poorly sourced" is removed, while favorable material stays in.

For libel purposes, Jacobs is a "public figure". He's been on major TV talk shows, has written op-ed articles in the New York Times, and runs advocacy organizations. So there's no real libel risk here under US law.

With this background, please see Talk:Charles_Jacobs (political activist)#Disputes in which Jacobs is involved and its previous version, [16]. One editor has asked that the history of the article be destroyed by an admin. I would like to ask that this not be done without formal review by a neutral party, so that the actions of various editors, including myself, can be reviewed.

The material concerns a defamation lawsuit in which Jacobs is involved, as a defendant. Jacobs has been involved in efforts to stop the building of a large mosque in Boston, and this has resulted in lawsuits. There's substantial press coverage in the mainstream media of this, along with websites from both (maybe three) sides, and a blog with a timeline. So I put links to all this on the talk page, not being ready to add material about it to the main article.

Read for yourself what happened then.

Please read the material referenced above and let me know if I've done anything improper. Thanks. --John Nagle 21:02, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

It looks like a case of "Legal Threats" to me by NYScholar. JohnnyBGood t c VIVA! 21:15, 27 July 2006 (UTC)


Mantanmoreland is attempting to whitewash and cover up the fact that he was found to be using a sockpuppet and posting under multiple identifies on Wikipedia. I was advised a couple days ago to let this matter now lie and I agreed to do so, but user Mantanmoreland is now trying to remove evidence and important information about this incident.[17] I suspect that in fact he has been using several identifies: Lastexit for sure and I suspect also "Doright." He was warned by an administrator about this and the administrator the indicated that he was definitely using a sockpuppet. He is now trying to cover this up by removing text from his archived talk page. I believe this is inappropriate. Would somebody here please advise Mantanmoreland to stop deleting text concerning this incident from his talk page archives? Thanks. Ptmccain 21:24, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Fred Bauder has already dealt with this. You are in a content dispute with Mantan, and seem to be trying to cause trouble. He has seen Fred's note, and if he wants to archive it, that's up to him. SlimVirgin (talk) 21:27, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
I properly removed anonymous comments from banned user WordBomb circumventing his indefinite ban -- the same IP comments for which my user page has already been semi-protected. Ptmccain has mischaracterized my actions in edit summaries as "removing warnings" and improperly edited my archive page and engaged in trolling. He is indeed engaged in a protracted content dispute with me and other editors on Martin Luther and other related pages. He is an edit warrior who has been banned a half dozen times -- the second to last time, on my complaint, for one week -- for vop;ating 3RR on Martin Luther [18]. I and other editors have warned him to stop his disruptive conduct.[19] His actions here are in bad faith and vindictive. Note this:[20]Ptmccain should be sanctioned for his misconduct. --Mantanmoreland 21:32, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Accusations of "edit warring" are easily made and anyone reviewing edit history on the Martin Luther pages will realize that Mantanmoreland and SlimVirgin are every bit as much part of the problem there as anyone else. In fact, I notice that SlimVirgin is herself now before the Arbcomm for similar behaviors even toward fellow admin. So, I think can dispense with the tactic of trying to divert attention from the issue here. Trying to divert attention from this complaint is not helpful. Mantanmoreland is attempting to whitewash a most serious breach of Wiki policy and is telling only half the truth. I did not not try to restore most of what he deleted from a banned user. I did however restore a very important part of the user's violation of Wiki policy. Here is what Mantanmoreland is trying to remove from public view in his archives:

Interesting conversation, Fred. Say, just to clarify, what's the the policy when it appears one individual voted twice using two identities? Take this instance, for example[21]. On its face, it would seem Mantanmoreland voted in an AfD sponsored by Lastexit. -- 03:11, 24 July 2006 (UTC) Yes, a violation of our sockpuppet policy. I hope he takes this warning to heart. Fred Bauder 14:14, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Is it appropriate for a Wikipedia user to remove a finding from an administrator that he is engaged in violating teh Wikipedia sockpuppet policy? I have been, I believe rightly, instructed by administrators not to remove any admin warnings or comments from my talk pages? Were they wrong?Ptmccain 21:52, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Mccain, you're trolling now. This has been dealt with by three admins, one of whom is on the ArbCom. It is dealt with, finished, over. There's no need for further input from you. SlimVirgin (talk) 21:57, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

User: was an obvious sockpuppet of banned user WordBomb, and removal of that and other sockpuppet edits, which were evading an indefinite ban, was totally appropriate. Ptmccain's re-posting here the taunting comment from this banned user (the subject of his complaint below) was abominable. --Mantanmoreland 22:12, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Let's have the facts clear. What I restored was not a "taunting comment" -- I have no way to know that was its intention, nor do I care really. The reason I put it back in was because it was a very important part of the record here, a very important question that made it possible for Fred Bauer to make his follow-on remark indicating that Mantanmoreland has been using a sockpuppet. I would be happy to leave only Fred's comment on the open archive page instead. I offer that as a solution. Let's just keep Fred's remark on Mantanmoreland's archive page. That would be fine with me. Removing it is wrong. I've been told by both admins and users that it is wrong to remove admin warnings and comments on my talk pages. Were they wrong? Ptmccain 22:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Ptmccain is referring to my warning here [22], in which I warned him not to personally attack me on his user page and then edit out my response. No, that is not the same thing as removing edits from a user circumventing an indefinite ban.
It is time for the plainly retaliatory conduct of this editor to come to an end.--Mantanmoreland 22:38, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
It's getting close to the time for an indefinite block of Ptmccain for trolling, six 3RR blocks in two months, vandalism, page blanking, several WP:POINT violations, repeated personal attacks against many editors, sending threatening e-mails, and threatening to "out" someone. SlimVirgin (talk) 22:48, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
How indefinite would that block be exactly? I hope for a long, long time! 01:51, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I would consider it a personal favor if somebody would "indefinitely block" me. That way I would be forced to avoid the temptation to participate in Wikipedia and have to deal with the likes of "SlimVirgin" aka Danny Wool, and Mantanmoreland/Doright/Nextexit and the other assorted troubled persons who inhabit Wikipedia 24/7 hiding behind their anonymity, working out their psychic disorders in various and sundry fashion here, not to mention participating in a project that ultimately is fatally flawed due its encouragment to people who know nothing about a given subject to participate in. No "encyclopedia" operates in such a fundamentally intellectually dishonest and unreliable way. So, please...go ahead, make my millennium. And I will thank you for it. I assure you it will be of no concern to me. I thank you kindly for the suggestion Danny. And it will be fun to watch the history page here to see how quickly Danny and playmates permanently delete this remark from the Wiki record. Ptmccain 00:58, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Anonymous vandalism at Jerkcity[edit]

The article Jerkcity has been subjected to periodic vandalism (e.g., [23]) in the last week or so from an anonymous user connecting from a few Verizon addresses. I semi-protected the article for a few days, but after lifting it, the vandal returned with a couple null edits with attack edit summaries [24]. In response I have blocked for 48 hours. I am submitting this here for review since the attacks were mostly directed at me. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 01:52, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


The IP has vandalized many pages, including Oprah Winfrey twice within a minute long span. Warnings have been given, and it is now necessary to take further steps. -PhattyFatt 04:31, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I can't get confirmation that the IP address is static, but I can block for a short time. RyanGerbil10(The people rejoice!) 05:42, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Vote stacking[edit]

I was asked by a person with the username User:MonsterOfTheLake to vote a certain way on an AFD. The AFD was Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Turkification

I was blocked over AIM.

Afterwards I tried to leave messages for him on his talk page...

EDIT: I was told by Mark Ryan that it is bad form to post AIM chat logs, so I deleted it upon his request. WhisperToMe 06:17, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

User talk:MonsterOfTheLake


I don't want him to take AFD so personally like that.

WhisperToMe 05:03, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Brian G. Crawford[edit]

Can you ban someone from editing even his own talk page? [25] I think this really needs to stop. --Allen 06:14, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for protecting it, Cyde. I think that will really help. --Allen 06:40, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


I've blocked Masterhatch (talk · contribs · logs) for 48 hours for rapidly and unilaterally moving pages from diacritic to nondiacritic names and continuing to do so despite being asked many times not to without prior discussion. When User:Ryulong then mass-reverted his page moves, Masterhatch began immediately undoing Ryulong's actions citing proposed policies and no actual consensus or discussion. I've informed Masterhatch that if he agrees to refrain from move-warring, I will unblock the account. As there is no real policy to govern move-warring blocks (other than debatably, disruption), I'm bringing the block here for review. AmiDaniel (talk) 07:01, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

  • You did just fine. -- Hoary 09:58, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Can I ask you which policy Masterhatch's moves were against? It certainly couldn't be any of these, could it?
  • Wikipedia:Naming conventions "Generally, article naming should give priority to what the majority of English speakers would most easily recognize, with a reasonable minimum of ambiguity, while at the same time making linking to those articles easy and second nature."
  • Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English) "If you are talking about a person, country, town, movie or book, use the most commonly used English version of the name for the article, as you would find it in other encyclopedias and reference works. This makes it easy to find, and easy to compare information with other sources."
  • Wikipedia:Naming conventions (standard letters with diacritics) "Diacritics should only be used in an article's title, if it can be shown that the word is routinely used in that way, with diacritics, in common usage. This means in reliable English sources, such as encyclopedias, dictionaries, or articles in major English-language newspapers." and "If the word is routinely listed in reliable English sources without diacritics, then the Wikipedia article should follow that method for the article title, though the diacritics version should be given in the initial paragraph of the article as suggested in Wikipedia:Naming conventions (use English)." and "If it is not clear what "common usage" is, then the general Wikipedia guideline is to avoid use of diacritics in article titles."
  • Wikipedia:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Player pages format#Use of diacritics and non-English characters
Masterhatch should not have been blocked. The issue of diacritics is far from settled and taking unilateral action against one user is both heavily POV and abuse of admin privileges. BoojiBoy 14:42, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

There was some discussion about it on some of the pages. See Talk:Marián Gáborík and Talk:Teemu Selänne. Both of these pages appeared to have consensus before most of his moves. -- JamesTeterenko 19:49, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

I guess I should add that I propose the removal of this block. Yes, it was a move war, but not the most serious I have seen and he did have some discussion backing him up. I have seen a number of his edits, and he is not normally disruptive. -- JamesTeterenko 19:59, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

While I won't question the blocking, I would suggest that Masterhatch was doing something within policy, namely using the most common English name for a proper title for a page. See the Talk pages James mentioned above.  RasputinAXP  c 04:16, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

new sockpuppet of user:General Tojo[edit]

User:RRennalls, currently in action at Atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki

...and user: too... KarlBunker 22:19, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

James Ewing Harassing me.[edit]

Can all references to User:AndrewBourke and the address and contact information be purged from the revert history and archives?

I *am* the Andrew Bourke that Mr. Ewing of Sveasoft Inc. is harassing by registering my name as a username and posting my personal info from open proxies.


- Andrew




Anyone? --Spankr 03:32, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

We can delete specific revisions of a page containing personal information, but you'll have to be specific about which pages you want cleansed. --Sam Blanning(talk) 13:30, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Thanks! All fixed - there were posts of my personal info in the User page history for AndrewBourke - they have now been purged. --Spankr 19:48, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

User:George Stroumboulopoulos[edit]

I asked User:George Stroumboulopoulos to choose another username, since we don't allow the names of celebirities unless they're the real people. See George Stroumboulopoulos. He blanked his Talk page and called my request vandalism. When I told him that I was an admin and asked him again to answer my question, he tried to claim that it's his real name. I have blocked him and asked him to choose another name, but instead I'm getting abuse on his Talk page. He only has about three edits. User:Zoe|(talk) 23:57, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Blank it and protect. --InShaneee 00:40, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Definitely. Tyrenius 01:46, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Tyrenius, thank you for cleaning out a couple of the more noisome userboxes I've yet seen. · rodii · 13:34, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

OK, so I blanked and protected, and he came back with this lovely "warning" on my Talk page. I blocked the account for 31 hours. I'm not blocking user id creation, as I told the user just to create a new account, but if this stuff continues, I will. User:Zoe|(talk) 18:10, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


After reverting User:Handface's edit to Bill Clinton (which, apparently, was not the first time that article was vandalized), I looked at the user's talk page. This latest incident of posting Coulter's erroneous opinion that Clinton is a rapist, molestor, and latent homosexual as a fact just served to illustrate the bad behaviour of this user. I believe we need to permanently block him/her, seeing as the user is argumentative, offensive, and has a great history of vandalism on Wikipedia. -PhattyFatt 00:01, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I have just checked the edit you mention.[26] In two short sentences Handface has provided 3 references. This hardly qualifies as vandalism. I don't know anything about Coulter, but she is obviously being given media access to say these things. What verification do you have for the description "erroneous" as at the moment your statement reads as POV. I can't see any reason to block Handface at all for this edit. I can see a need for a more serious discussion about whether Coulter's views have gained sufficient exposure to merit their inclusion. Tyrenius 01:41, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I'm not going to add the Bill Clinton comment again. Tyrenius has done a good job of mediating this. I can let it go. What I can't take is the continued garbage that some people insist on spewing. PhattyFatt just said that I "ha[ve] a great history of vandalism on Wikipedia". As far as I know, I have no history of vandalism on Wikipedia. Here's a tip, Phatty: if you have a point to make, make it without lying. I know lies are very persuasive in the Al Franken world of crap arguments, but they don't work with me. Handface 04:06, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
In two short sentences Handface has provided 3 references. Irrelevant, since the issue isn't whether she said it, but whether it's applicable to Bill Clinton; i.e., whether Ann Coulter is specially qualified to diagnose Bill Clinton or whether her latest ravings have some direct weight on the subject of Bill Clinton. "Vandalism" isn't out of line, really, since it's clearly an intellectually dishonest attempt to inject Handface's POV while laundering it as outside comment. --Calton | Talk 06:12, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
No. It's not my POV. I don't think Bill Clinton is gay. I've said that several times now. I put it in the article because Ann Coulter said it, and Coulter and Clinton have a long and documented history (yet there is no mention of Coulter at all in the Clinton article). I haven't added the comment back, and I don't plan on it at this time. Other than Jay Leno joking about it the last couple of nights, there hasn't really been enough publicity about this statement to include it. But it's just outlandish to call this vandalism. Handface 08:53, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
And that's exactly why I reverted it as vandalism the first time it appeared. At the user's insistence, I have taken it as seriously as I can since that initial reversion — without any sign at all until just a few hours ago that the user is willing to discuss the matter. My assessment is still that the edit is a pretty clear example of sneaky vandalism — a sensible-appearing edit crafted to smuggle in misinformation to disrupt the article. --Ptkfgs 06:23, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Out of curiosity, how did I insist that you take this seriously if I wasn't discussing it? Handface 15:06, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

You're both coming from your own POV on this and branding an edit dispute as vandalism. What you accuse Handface of, you are doing yourselves. Please address the substance and not the editor. His motivations are not relevant: the content is.Tyrenius 06:45, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

This is clearly an edit dispute and not vandalism and this isn't the right forum for it. Thank you. Tyrenius 15:39, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Dynamic IP vandalism[edit]

Someone is switching between many different IPs and vandalizing Bulbasaur. I'd take it to WP:AIV, but no IP vandalizes it twice. Can someone check if they're open proxies or sub-net masks? The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 00:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

My view is that this is common main page vandalism. Doesn't follow a pattern to indicate that a single person is behind it. However, I see no harm in checking. Joelito (talk) 00:30, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I've temporarily sprotected the article. — xaosflux Talk 03:03, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
All main page articles get hit by IP vandals. It is our policy not to issue protection. If you really, really, really feel that you have to, please use SProtect. The 24 hours that "your" article is on the main page will be one of the longest collections of hours you will ever have. The more popular the topic, the worse it is, and Bulbasaur is really going to get slammed. Geogre 14:10, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
The featured article should not be sprotected. User:Zoe|(talk) 18:12, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

More User:Ste4k antics[edit]

Ste4k posted this into the RfC against her as evidence of me being incivl:

How dare I edit your page so people can read it? Do you have vision problems? I have never heard of vision problems.. Here, I'll fix. --mboverload 01:52, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

The actual quote:

How dare I edit your page so people can read it? =D Do you have vision problems, if that's the case then I'm sorry. However, I have never heard of vision problems needing everything to be different low contrast shades of purple in extremely small sizes. Here, I'll fix the size issue for you. In Internet Explorer go up to the "View" drop down menu, go down to "Text size" and select "Medium" --mboverload@

I unwatched the RfC page because I was sick of her antics. Another user had to alert me to her insertion of completely made up comments. What can I do? Why do I have to put up with this? --mboverload@ 03:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

If I may ignore the actual thrust of this thread for a second and take the opportunity to sink the boot into Mboverload: You are a bit on the acerbic side in the original quote, and any quote that isn't a diff is not worth the black photons it's written in anyway. As to the real issue, the best response to fractured quote is a link to the original, or to ignore it. - brenneman {L} 04:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Diff: [27] which is found in the history of a page which was moved, then turned into a redirect which points at Ste4k's archive page (see [28]). Talkpage history was a bit hard to find. ~Kylu (u|t) 06:32, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Wait, what exactly are we supposed to do here? This sounds like another silly content/user dispute occuring. I was done with Ste4k and her problem users a loooooooooong time ago. --Pilotguy (roger that) 05:10, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I was done too, I completely wiped any trace of her from my watchlist. But putting words in my mouth is not something I'm going to ignore. --mboverload@ 06:24, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I think you should just ignore it and wait for the RFAr. Quarl (talk) 2006-07-28 12:45Z

Oh well. I was convinced that an admin would have banned her by now for community exhaustion, but I guess we'll have to go through Arb. Read the RfC, "she" actually brough in her "husband" to challenge me to a fight =P --mboverload@ 12:51, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I'd actually have to say that while she's a good editor, her lack of interpersonal skill has caused me to suffer an exhaustion of patience as well. I'd rather not block her for it, myself, but perhaps more comments are needed? ~Kylu (u|t) 18:51, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
No, the RfC is already a failure, this user will never take any sort of advice and will continue to be confrontational. We need a rouge admin to indef =( --mboverload@ 20:22, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
I'd say this editor seems to trying intentionally to exhaust the community's patience. She's certainly exhausted mine. -Will Beback 20:31, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Please note this user brought in her husband/made up a husband sock account to challenge me to a fight on the RfC--mboverload@ 20:37, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

FYI. User:Ste4k has circuitously moved the contents of User talk:Ste4k to User:Rrock because she wants "red tabs". Quarl (talk) 2006-07-29 02:06Z

Yeah, only so it looks like she's a "brand-new user". --mboverload@ 02:11, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
It appears there's a few people here who've decided she may have exhausted the community's patience. If there's consensus, the user and her sockpuppet can be blocked per blocking policy (yes, I know you're all aware of it) for this and the personal threats. Opinions? ~Kylu (u|t) 02:36, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Please visit Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#User:Ste4k_attempting_to_get_all_talk_history_deleted_though_complex_move_operations_and_manipulation below. ~Kylu (u|t) 02:43, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

3RR violation User:RevolverOcelotX[edit]

User:RevolverOcelotX is back and continues his pattern of making POV edits, wikilawyering, personal attacks, harassing other users, lack of civity, making groundless, violate 3RR then accuse others for violating 3RR, false accusations and generally wasting the community's patience. His actions is similar to indef. blocked User:PoolGuy (except the sockpuppets part) and constantly engage himself in bootless wikilawyering. (vexatious litigant) For more information please refer to [[29]] for the full length report and his contributions. I urge administrators to take a close look at his conduct and block him immediately. More evidence available if you guys need it.--Bonafide.hustla 05:17, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

There is no evidence of policy violation here. For the record, Bonafide.hustla (talk · contribs) have been mass POV pushing on many articles. Bonafide.hustla was previously known as Freestyle.king (talk · contribs) who was repeated blocked before he change his username. See Bonafide.hustla's contributions for more details. --RevolverOcelotX 05:26, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Another example of his bootless wikilawyering. In any case, this user's contribution speaks for themselves. contributions It's astonishing to note that this user has not made a single useful edit since his initial arrival. And by the way my last valid block occurs in March from then on I have adhere to wikipedia regulations, while this user has not. The accusation is not justified.--Bonafide.hustla 05:32, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Folks, it is Bonafide.hustla who has been constantly stirring up dirt here. Many of Bonafide.hustla edits are bogus and POV and some of RevolverOcelotX's reverts are clearly justified even though he could provide better explanation of those reverts.--Jiang 05:38, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Both sides need to stop edit warring and callin each others edits vandalism though... Sasquatch t|c 05:43, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Bonafide.hustla was the only person labeling other editor's completely legitimate reverts as "vandalism". See here for his latest example. Bonafide.hustla was banned from WP:ANI for wikilawyering. See here for evidence of Bonafide.hustla's banning from WP:ANI. He is now evading his ban and should be blocked. --RevolverOcelotX 05:48, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

[[30]] shows I am no longer banned. In any case, although Jiang is a respected administrator and made a lot of contributions to this site. He has been making edits that are clearly pro-Chinese see Talk:David Wu Talk:List of Chinese Americans. You can't say his position is neutral. I am gonna stop edit warring right now though, but I stand by every edits I made. User:RevolverOcelotX just broken 3RR. [[31]]--Bonafide.hustla 05:52, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Violation of 3RR by Revolver, a block is necessary. Thanks [[32]] First revert occurs at 15:48, 27 July 2006 RevolverOcelotX and 4th revert occurs at 05:49, 28 July 2006 RevolverOcelotX--Bonafide.hustla 06:02, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

There is no violations there, considering only 3 reverts have been made. --RevolverOcelotX 06:10, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Could someone explain the violation to him? The 4 reverts are very apparent.--Bonafide.hustla 06:27, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

There are no violations there. Bonafide.hustla (talk · contribs) has been POV pushing and making tendentious edits to many articles since his initial arrival to Wikipedia (see his contributions). Bonafide.hustla has now resorted to making bogus vandalism reports which were promptly rejected, here and bogus checkuser here. This is clearly an abuse of the system. Bonafide.hustla should be blocked for disruption and wikilawyering. --RevolverOcelotX 06:33, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

User:RevolverOcelotX went as far as disrupting the info on the naming conventions. An independent user since reverted the article to the NPOV version by me. [[33]]. This also shows Jiang's biased POV of this issue (see his statement above). RevolverOcelotX should be blocked indefinitely for wasting the community's patience, wikilawyering, spamming, harassment, and disruption as per User:PoolGuy. He shows no willingness to contribute positively to the project. Thanks--Bonafide.hustla 06:47, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Bonafide.hustla (talk · contribs) has been distorting the naming conventions. The diff Bonafide.hustla provided was not for the naming conventions but on an unrelated article which a new user reverted. Bonafide.hustla should be blocked for constant disruption, harrassment, wikilawyering, and wasting the community's patience. His contributions speak for themselves (he has been POV pushing since his initial arrival). He clearly shows no willingness to contribute positively to Wikipedia and should be blocked. --RevolverOcelotX 06:51, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Bloody hell. Will you please go through the formal dispute resolution process, and clear this up once and for all, instead of spamming AN/I and dozens of admins' talk pages with these repetitive complaints, month after month after month. Personally, I think that if both of you were banned it would be no great loss. --ajn (talk) 07:07, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Actually, if you look at Bonafide.hustla (talk · contribs)'s contributions, it is clear that Bonafide.hustla (talk · contribs) was the one who started spamming AN/I and other admins' talk pages. Bonafide.hustla even went as far as to make bogus "vandalism" and "checkuser" reports. It is clear that Bonafide.hustla has no intent to contribute positively and has wasted the community's patience and should be blocked. --RevolverOcelotX 07:12, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
And your response to my request to stop spamming admins' talk pages with repetitive complaints is to put repetitive complaints on my talk page. Brilliant. Both of you are edit-warring, regardless of the minor detail of whether you are technically breaching 3RR or not, and both of you are being disruptive. Until I see a good faith attempt to resolve this by mediation, RfC or an arbitration case, I don't want to see any of this again here, or on my talk page. --ajn (talk) 08:29, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

You guys don't understand; we can't ban Revolver Ocelot. If we do we'll create a time paradox, because he needs to be able to post the information six months from now that exposes La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo, thus setting off the metal gear crisis. --Cyde↔Weys 15:05, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


New account, uploaded copyright image 2 minutes after account created. Freewilly (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log). Hmmn, might just be an unfortunate choice of user name. Clappingsimon talk 08:37, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

But the image he uploaded looks very much like taken from (Copyright © 2003 Oscommerce and CRE Loaded Team). Agathoclea 21:11, 28 July 2006 (UTC)


In retaliation for disputing the fair use status on an image on an article he watches, User:MatthewFenton is tagging all of the fair use images I have uploaded as having no source. [34] An example is Image:The Monster is Loose Bat Out of Hell 3 album cover.jpg. Could someone please verify that it is ridiculous to say that these are unsourced, and User:MatthewFenton should be reminded of WP:POINT. The JPStalk to me 14:36, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

I have done nothing wrong, and it was not in retaliation. I was looking at an image you uploaded.. noticed it had no source and thus tagged it, i followed procedure properly as laid out in the template. Also how is this WP:POINT? There was no point to be made, i am just trying to help you so your images are not deleted. Matthew