Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive142

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Abuse of Administror's right by User:Nlu[edit]

User:Nlu have abused his right of an administrator in the page of Goguryeo.
Because User:ABCBBCKBS had removed the entire section of Modern Politics, I reverted it to a previous version.
In addition, the previous version, which I reverted to, was similar as the version edited by [[User::Nlu]].
Even I reverted to the version that is similar as the version by Nlu, he said that the Modern politics violate the POV.
, and then he removed the entire section of Modern politics. Please compare the three version by me and Nlu.

 1. This is my reverting due to User:ABCBBCKBS [[1]]
2. This is the previous version by Nlu[[2]]
3. This is the version of Nlu by his abuse of administrator's right. [[3]]

The section of modern politics is entirely removed.
He warned me to block my id if I revert the article that has modern politics. I dont think that it is fair. I have dicsussed about this, but he dont want to discuss about it. see ( User_talk:Nlu.)--Hairwizard91 06:49, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

He is not abusing his Administrator rights. Please read WP:BLOCK, WP:DEL and WP:PROTECT before using such a word. Only under certain circumstances can admins be sanctioned for "abuse of Admin powers", and I see none of it there. Please provide specific diffs which demonstrate a clear breach of administrative protocol, with proper reference to what is stated in the Wikipedia admins policies, and then maybe something can be done. Also remember that this is not the Wikipedia complaint department - if anyone else feels this section should be deleted because it is a perfect example of what ANI is not, go ahead. Daniel.Bryant 07:12, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
What I mean is not difference between version. The version edited by me was identical with the version that Nlu had edited. But, now he says that the version edited by me viloates the POV rule even though my edited version is identical with the version had edited by Nlu.--Hairwizard91 09:39, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
And how does that make your complaint qualify as "administrator abuse", as opposed to "normal abuse"? Normal "abuse" goes down the dispute resolution path, which is exactly where this should be headed. It is not admin "abuse", because they didn't use their admin powers to act in an "abusive" manner. Period. Daniel.Bryant 13:22, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Wow, I have no idea why Nlu reverted you. I think its time we block him for his sneaky vandalism. —Ryūlóng (竜龍) 21:41, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
He warned me to block me from Wiki editing at the first reverting, and as follows
Stop hand.svg
This is your last warning.
The next time you violate Wikipedia's NPOV rule by inserting commentary or your personal analysis into an article, as you did to Goguryeo, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. --Nlu (talk) 05:11, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
But, I think it settles down now. Thanks--Hairwizard91 04:28, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Likely return of banned User:Courtney Akins[edit]

FYI, I have opened a check user case on new user User:UCF Cheerleader who I strongly suspect is a sockpuppet of community banned User:Courtney Akins. The RFCU case is here. The similarities are exceptionally strong: User:Courtney Akins received a community ban for trolling and disruption. This user (likely a male) portrayed himself as an attractive stripper from Florida, uploading a suggestive photo of "herself" to her userpage. She then created an article on a porn series (Throat Gaggers), posted strange questions to the Reference Desk [4], created an article on 19th. century Britain (Early conceptions of the Channel Tunnel), while claiming to be a History student, flirted with admins [5] and started an RfA.

Now up pops User:UCF Cheerleader who is a "hot 19 year old cheerleader from Florida" with the userpage picture to prove it. "She" creates the article on a different porn series (Housewife Bangers), posts a strange question to the Reference Desk [6], started AfD-ing article about 19th. century British MPs [7], and is now flirting with users and hinting at an RfA [8]. Thanks, Gwernol 12:20, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Lovely. Best thing to do in this case is probably add {{User wikipedia/Administrator someday}} to her userpage, as it seems to doom everyone that uses it to never becoming an admin... (j/k) Seriously though, until the checkuser is back, I'd just say keep an eye on her if you're worried. ~Kylu (u|t) 20:03, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
A strong similarity in pattern of edits can be enough to establish likely similarity/sockpuppetry, without actually needing a CU to confirm it. Also, if the user is being disruptive, per se, it doesn't matter if they are a sock or not... ++Lar: t/c 00:38, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Ahem. --Aaron 02:39, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
That seems misguided at best... Perhaps not technically disruptive but a user that new hasn't the history to be properly reviewed. ++Lar: t/c 04:54, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Moot point. See Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Stalking_by_another_user, this user has been blocked. I support the block based on review of contributions and actions. ++Lar: t/c 05:14, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

User:UCF Cheerleader was indef blocked as an obvious disruptive sockpuppet of User:Courtney Akins, as has User:Harthacanute3. We should watch out for other new users showing similar behavior - flirting with admins, interest in or creating articles on porn series of minor notability, inappropriate editor review and/or RfA, spurious AfDs on 19th. century British MPs etc. Gwernol 18:56, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

User: Kuban kazak[edit]

There has been a faked, staged photo percipted as a real one in the article Russophobia, I provided a direct source for the fact that it is a forgery, but Kuban kazak reverted it, accusing me falsely of vandalism, which is also a personal attack. It is clear to me that he is working for a Russian nationalist agenda and tries to make up atrocities by putting up fake photos. You can see from the edits which photo is the one in question. --Jaakko Sivonen 13:06, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

My dear friend AN/I is not the place to tattle. First of all if you believe the image is dubious the first place to go is the talk page of the article and explain why you think, then modify the caption with something like this image is believed to be forged(ref). Partisan blanking IS vandalism. --Kuban Cossack Flag of the Russian Empire (black-yellow-white).svg 13:08, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
I did give the source in the first place and advised to check a page with more information. There was no grounds for a vandalism charge. --Jaakko Sivonen 13:13, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Blanking IS Vandalism unless there is a full Consensus, and please accusing me of nationalism is a strict POV and is against WP:CIVIL and WP:Neutrality. --Kuban Cossack Flag of the Russian Empire (black-yellow-white).svg 13:15, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
OK, I'm going into teacher-mode now: please proceed to dispute resolution, as the above is not the intended use of this page. Follow the instructions on the dispute resolution page, and reach a solution. You do not need help from this page. Please move on. Daniel.Bryant 13:19, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I second Daniel.Bryant's advice. Guys, please stop accusing each other of vandalism. What you have is content dispute. Jaako, you also accused me of spreading russofilic and anti-Finnish non-NPOV propaganda on Russo-nationalist base after I pointed out to you that your continuing attempts to suppress Swedish (sic!) names of medieval castles in Finland and Russia do not conform to our policies. Trust me, every famous WWII photo (example), in any way sympathetic of the Sovies, has been declared a fake in this project by those editors whose agenda is to picture Russians as subhuman beasts. Why should we believe an obscure book you pointed out, when you describe yourself on your user page as "a Finn nationalist" and engage in tendentious editing? How do we know that it is a reliable source and not a revisionist booklet? --Ghirla -трёп- 13:22, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Could everyone please stay civil here, and can this discussion please take place on the articles talk page for now? It does appear that Jaakko has provided evidence of the photo being a fake and I tend to agree that it should be removed or labeled as such, but it would be best if editors involved with the article worked it out on the article talk page. This was not vandalism as he clearly stated in edit comments why he was removing it. Still, after a removal and a revert of the removal it would have been best to start a conversation rather than removing it again. --StuffOfInterest 13:23, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Wise words. Move to the article talk page, and post nothing more here until you actually need administrator intervention, and then only as an absolute last resort. So can we all move away from clogging up WP:DR with complaints, and negotiate a solution on the article's talk page? And don't forget, it's extremely bad form to give vandalism warnings, or accuse other people of vandalism, whilst in a content dispute. WP:VAND even says so. Daniel.Bryant 13:27, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
The image should be removed only if reliable (per WP:RS) sources are provided. There is no lack of sources claiming this image is a fake. Yet we don't remove it from articles, unless reliable sources substantiate the conspiracy theory. --Ghirla -трёп- 13:30, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
The book in question is a popular high school history book, not an "obscure one", and there is no reason to doubt it unless you give other reference. Thus, it is reliable. You have not given any evidence to support it's authenticity. In addition, the Soviets did a lot of propaganda on exactly these kind of things, are you denying that...? That photo's purpose is to show Finnish prison camps as somekind of Nazi-style concentration camps which they were not: they are comparable to the Amrican internation camps for the Japanese. BTW this is general knowledge in Finland, so no god damn conspiracies. --Jaakko Sivonen 13:33, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Please take this comment to Talk:Russophobia or the talk page of the image, WP:AN/I is not the place to discuss this, if need to I am prepared to begin a mediation btw. --Kuban Cossack Flag of the Russian Empire (black-yellow-white).svg 13:36, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
"No hell, what stupid! More propagating sick russofilia elsewhere!" (Finnish) ~Kylu (u|t) 04:01, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Did you use an online translator for that or something? -Lapinmies 16:10, 21 October 2006 (UTC)


New and very persistent account with poor editing skills, in the past two days continually changing the National Anthem of Ethiopia on the article Ethiopia and other such half-baked antics, refuses to engage in even one word of discussion. Left warnings on his talk, which have been ignored. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 14:33, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Could you explain in more detail? This user linked to a BBC audio file, which seems like a reliable source. Per WP:BITE I hesitate to block a user who's very new and appears to be making cited edits. Perhaps a friendly note about WP:3RR would be more appropriate. Regards, Durova 18:28, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
I have already left the 3RR template on his page. I know he is new, but he has been asked to respond or explain on discussion many times and has refused, just simply repeated the same edit, every hour or so for the past two days. (First as an IP, then with the account). Since I can't get him to discuss, I don't know what else to do, so now I am coming here. I have not seen any source other than him to suppose that Ethiopia has changed its anthem from Wodefit Gesgeshi, Widd Innat Ityopp'ya. On occasion he has changed other bits of info in the Ethiopia infobox beside the anthem. He could at least explain why he is doing this non productive edit so insistently. To his credit, he has not edited since the last time I warned him, a few hours ago. ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 18:45, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Bring it to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RR if the problem continues. Durova 18:51, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Soviet Empire[edit]

Moved to gibberish name by Nukemason (talk · contribs · checkuser · block user · block log · edit count). Gazpacho 20:05, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Blocked 24 hours. Durova 20:14, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
I've restored the page to its original title and deleted the redirect that resulted from moving back the page. A question for other admins: should the pagemove vandalism be deleted from the article history, or not? IIRC, that's standard procedure for WoW pagemove vandalism. Aecis Dancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 20:25, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Not an admin, but this appears to be a one-off expression of frustration based on the move summary, rather than WOW-style vandalism. Deletion probably not necessary, though if the editor recovers their head and asks for such... -- nae'blis 21:03, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
I imagine that there's no real issue with deleting vandalism pagemoves from the history, as it's not anything that contributes to the current state of the article. I'm curious about why though in this case, since it probably isn't going to be WP:DENY (if the user isn't converting to full-time vandalism). ~Kylu (u|t) 16:55, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

User removes comments from the talk page.[edit]

User Clevelander constantly removes my comment from a talk page [9], [10] saying I am trying to evade block (although there is no block to evade). The talk page history shows this is not the first time he removes comments of other users.--Nixer 16:19, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Nixer there's a tag right on your user page that reads: It has been established that this user is the puppet master of one or more abusive or block / ban-evading sock puppets as proven by this Checkuser request. Who are you trying to fool? -- Clevelander 18:05, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for notice--Nixer 18:19, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
...and you removed a tag that an administrator placed on your user page. Do you really think that this will make you sound in any way credible? -- Clevelander 18:23, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
He is not an administrator (just a POV-pusher and vandal). I am not blocked.--Nixer 18:50, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Ok, both of you stop. Cleavelander, Nixer was not evading a block as you claim and you shouldn't have removed his comments. His block had expired which was obvious by the fact that he could *edit*. Please do not remove other people's comments again. The rest of argument is silly and needs to end. Nixer hasn't used sockpuppets for awhile, so its fine for the tag to be removed. Its in the edit history anyway and we don't need to keep branding people if they've refomed. pschemp | talk 00:56, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Probably Clevelander mixed me with another user in the same talk page.--Nixer 09:40, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


What is with this user's page? Are they trying to put advertisements on their page? The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 19:51, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Never mind, a sysop removed it. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 22:37, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

User talk:Atomaton[edit]

I explained it to him in great detail on his talk page here: User talk:Atomaton. He responded by repeating his controversial unsourced assertions about a living person here. I reverted it and am now posting this here so others can deal with it. I am now out of it. WAS 4.250 20:06, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

More accurately is that:

  • I was asked to participate in a controversial discussion, (see Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Jamie_Lee_Curtis_urban_legends) I made a comment, the gist of which was that whether it was true or not, it should *not* be included in the article. I did not comment in the article itself for obvious reasons. The only reason I commented on the talk page was because I watch the BPL page, and was *asked* to give my opinion, not for any other reason.
  • User WAS at some later time (five or six hours) removed a portion of my comments fom the talk page. He did not comment in the talk pages as to why, nor did he comment on my own talk page.
  • I left polite, but firm feedback for WAS on his talk page. In a nutshell, I said "You edited (removed a portion of) my comments on the Jamie Lee Curtis page. This is not acceptable. I'm happy to discuss any differences of opinion I may have with other editors, but I won't accept other people editing my comments because they disagree."(See User_talk:WAS_4.250#Jamie_Lee_Curtis). I also reverted the edit to my opinion on the talk page.
  • User WAS replied relatively quickly, explaining his rationale on my talk page. (see User_talk:Atomaton#Jamie_Lee_Curtis_and_Nikki_Craft) He said "So you want to pick a fight with me over my correct use of WP:BLP while you use it to delete sources instead of claims and your edit subjects are troll bait (but I have not reviewed your edits on those sex pages). Altogether a troubling pattern"
  • I responded, explained that I was not offensive, only establishing limits. I acknowledged that I understood his rationale and respected it. (and a great many other things).
  • I also responded on the Jamie Lee Curtis talkpage that I was offended to be *asked* to offer an opinion, and then told my opinion was politically incorrect when I did. [[11]]
  • This was reverted, by user WAS and part of my previous comments re-edited again. [[12]]
  • On my talk page, I told user WAS "Anyway, I respect your opinion on the matter and won't comment on the Jamie Lee Curtis issue again. I only wanted to point out that it was rude to ask for my opinion, and then say that my opinion was politically incorrect."
  • I removed all of my comments entirely from the Jamie Lee Curtis talk page.

All in all, it is my opinion that WAS was extremely rude. He implied I was trying to pick a fight with him, implied that my area of specialty was somehow not appropriate for editing, and just generally seemed to be pushy for no good reason when he could have just been polite, and assumed good faith on my part. I respect that his intentions, to protect the biography of a living person, as well as the image and integrity of Wikipedia was pure. As a member of that project I understand the sensitivity. I had no idea that I would be treated so roughly by responding to the request to offer my opinion at Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Jamie_Lee_Curtis_urban_legends Biography of living persons noticeboard.) Apparently the only comments desired were ones that carefully avoided discussing the subject. Someone might want to post that on the talk page to avoid other people from being burned without warning. Atom 20:56, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Two things here. First Atom, policy cleary states unsourced claims can be removed from anyplace on wikipedia. You yourself admitted you have no source. Therefore, WAS's action was correct. If you don't agree with the policy, start a discussion on the policy talk page, but in the meantime, you must abide by it. Second, WAS, your statement on Atom's talk page was clearly made to put Atom on the defensive ("I also notice almost all your recent edits are sex related. So you want to pick a fight with me over my correct use of WP:BLP while you use it to delete sources instead of claims and your edit subjects are troll bait (but I have not reviewed your edits on those sex pages). Altogether a troubling pattern.") and you should have made a more polite comment rather than accusing Atom of various and sundry crimes. In short, neither or you handled this well but the removal was correct. pschemp | talk 21:15, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
I don't argue the removal. What I stated was fact. Disclosing the source would by contrary to my goals of saying that there was some reason it was important. It isn't. I don't think it should be in the article whether it is true or not. I agreed that I did not offer a source, and hence agreed to abide by policy. That is why I retracted my comments. I would have retracted all of them but user WAS had already edited some of them out before I finished replying to his comment. I don't suggest that the policy was applied incorrectly, or that it should be changed.
What I objected to was being slapped around as though I was some vandal, merely because I offered my opinion when asked. My original comment/response was really not intended to be malicious. In responding the the BLP request, I was merely pointing out that I knew it to be true, not trying to pass on any gossip or rumors. In restrospect saying that wasn't really relevant, and didn't need to be said.
I felt that I was polite, and assumed good faith even though he could have been more diplomatic. The only reason we are her on this page is because user WAS felt obliged to comment on it, even after I ceded his point on my talk page and removed my comments. (disregarding what he implied in his comments). Atom 21:35, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Editor using uncivil edit summaries[edit]

The pink panther (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) used quite an uncivil and WP:BITE edit summary on this this diff five days ago. I formally had her listed as a suspected sock of User:SPOV because of the incredibly similar userboxes. She also reported an autoblock because of User:reallytinyprint, who is another suspected sock (for the same reason). -Royalguard11(Talk·Desk) 01:12, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi there! I'm not sure that AN/I is the proper forum for this complaint. Please use WP:RFCU to report suspected sockpuppets. Also, I think a warning would suffice for an inappropriate edit summary, and isn't really something to post here about, especially nearly a week after the incident. Thanks! hoopydinkConas tá tú? 01:20, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
I left a note on this user's talk page about using caps-locked edit summaries.--Konst.ableTalk 01:23, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


This seems to be a vandal-only account. This person has written nothing but hoax articles that are all up for deletion either at AfD or PROD. Mr Spunky Toffee 01:51, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi! Thanks for taking the time out of your day to let us know! In the future, however, please use WP:AIV for vandalism-related issues. In this case, I don't think that the user has actually done any vandalism. The user simply seems to be a bit unfamiliar with notability policies. Thanks again! hoopydinkConas tá tú? 01:57, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Incivility and threats from User:Yas121[edit]

User:Yas121 has been generally ranting about "Zionists" and carrying on an increasingly vituperative campaign of incivility, personal attacks and threats in edit summaries and Talk: comments. Examples include "Rv childlish edits grow up!" "Don't revert factual stuff to satisfy your zionist agenda!" "here at wikipedia we like to take the pro-israeli-(zionist)-bias a little further than the rest." "Head over to Hamas....(Where Admins such as Jayjg have taken an oath to Rev/Block anyone who may disagree)... Yes it may read like a damming report written by the Israeli PR machine...but they still call it an encyclopaedic article!!!" "Jayjg, where would the Zionist cause be without usual you Rev clearly explained edits to fit your zionist agenda. One day you'll get yours...". Is a permanent block in order at this point, or a shorter one of a week or so? Jayjg (talk) 02:08, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi Jayjg! First off, I think it's great judgement of you to list this incident here, given your involvement in the incident. In briefly looking at the diffs you provided and the user's contribs, I would suggest a longish block (two to four months) for the user to chill out and reevaluate if he wants to postively contribute to this project or to continue to antagonise other users and attempt to interject his POV. If he returns and changes his ways, then great! We'll have another dedicated volunteer; if he comes back from his block and continues to negatively affect Wikipedia, then I'd have no problem with an immediate permanent block. I hope this helps! Cheers hoopydinkConas tá tú? 02:13, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Support about a month long block or so to reconsider his actions. – Chacor 02:15, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Two-month long block would be an appropriate response. ≈ jossi ≈ t@ 02:30, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Done and done. --InShaneee 02:53, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Behaviour of User:Wikid77 on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/FEMA Trailer[edit]

Can an admin please take a look at the behaviour of Wikid77 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/FEMA Trailer? I find his persistent "updates" to be snappy, sarcastic, unnecessary, andd mostly uncivil. – Chacor 02:28, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I left a warning. --Coredesat 08:51, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
It's rather strange how newbies know more about the wiki concept than sysops... {{afdanon}}'d. Will (Glaciers melting in the dead of night) 09:44, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Endgame1 (talk · contribs) again[edit]

There was a similar post here regarding this user. The thread died out when it appeared that the user was leaving. But he did not leave. Since then he has continued his bizzare edits - [13], [14]. At present the message on his user page reads "I QUIT - I WILL DO MY OWN RESEARCH AND NOT SHARE BECAUSE I AM VERY SHELFISH.". It would be better if some admin would take a look at this matter again. - Aksi_great (talk) 12:53, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

He looks like he has begun to vandalise since he posted his intention to quit. I've reverted and warned him, but I can't keep an eye on him today. Can somone else do this? --Kbdank71 13:27, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Yes. He has continued despite his warnings. I have an eye on him for the moment. - Aksi_great (talk) 13:32, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Very shellfish? Danny Lilithborne 22:55, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Blocked for one week. Nearly everything he does has been reverted by someone (like massive tagging of archived pages for speedy deletion!) and the rest are inane votes on mfd with no reasoing. If he keeps this up after the block expires, he needs to be blocked even longer. pschemp | talk 01:05, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Very shellfish? Presumably it means he'll clam up and not move a mussel. --Calton | Talk 07:12, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
This user knows entirely too much about Wikipedia process for how new they are. Any other banned users with this bizarre behavior? Grandmasterka 21:27, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Endgame has already been indefblocked by Tawker (talk · contribs). About banned users, I don't know. He was in hibernation for a few months and then suddenly came up with those wierd questions on my (ongoing) RfA. But I don't recall ever coming across any user related to me with similar patterns of editing. So it must have been a coincidence. - Aksi_great (talk) 21:34, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Woodking24 (talk · contribs)[edit]

This seems to be single-purpose account used to spam articles with links to furniture companies in India. I had issued a spam warning to him ealier in the year which was later removed by them. I don't think this account is going to be used to make any contructive edits to wikipedia. - Aksi_great (talk) 13:41, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Blocked. pschemp | talk 01:00, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
This section was recently deleted and spammed by (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log), who clearly is identical to Woodking24. Please, block this IP. --Wasell 04:20, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
IP blocked and sites added to m:Spam blacklist Naconkantari 04:22, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Spambot is back (somewhat)[edit]

Ok, latest spam attack on my userpsace is User talk:Cool cat/archive/2005/w/index.php. Please sort it out. :) For previous discussion on the matter see:

--Cat out 23:37, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Page deleted and IP bloked for 24 hours.--Doc 23:50, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. --Cat out 23:53, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
User talk:Cool Cat/Archive/2005/wiki/Discussion/ too. --Cat out 00:00, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
These IPs should really be blocked for a minimum of 1 month; most are likely zombies or open proxies. —Ryūlóng (竜龍) 00:01, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
I started a Spambot tracker.
From what I understand this bot isnt just targeting my userspace. Unfortunately, I can't view deleted pages. So, I welcome compiling of a list of similar activity elsewhere on that page.
I just dont want to start a new thread explaining the issue since the bot doesnt seem to be about to go away.
--Cat out 00:26, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

You can find most of the spam that slipped through the cracks using Google, an example would be [15]. Though we really need to equip our antivandalism bots to take care of these things. MER-C 03:31, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

More spam: [16]. MER-C 04:39, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

May I suggest reporting spam IPs to WP:OP encase they are proxies or compromised. Thanks.--Andeh 20:45, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Desperately Need help on blanking and POV editing of Tamilnet by User:snowolfd4[edit]

I have been making some edits to Tamilnet which have been repeatedly reverted with POV and propaganda from the ministry of Defence, Sri Lanka without any qualifications of the text by user User:Snowolfd4. I have added a list of justifications for my changes. But this user has never bothered to answer them and gone ahead given very terse statements for his reverts. This is pretty much vandalism. I have in turn added citations from a reputable source, namely a journal article on by Whitaker, Mark P. " Some Reflections on Popular Anthropology, Nationalism, and the Internet" Anthropological Quarterly - Volume 77, Number 3, Summer 2004, pp. 469-498 George Washington University Institute for Ethnographic Research. He has reverted my citations claiming in effect that this peer-reviewed scholarly journal article is the following:

According to Official WP policy Personal websites, blogs, and other self-published or vanity publications should not be used as secondary sources. That is, they should not be used as sources of information about a person or topic other than the owner of the website, or author of the book. The reason personal websites are not used as secondary sources — and as primary sources only with great caution and not as a sole source if the subject is controversial — is that they are usually created by unknown individuals who have no one checking their work. They may be uninformed, misled, pushing an agenda, sloppy, relying on rumor and suspicion, or even insane; or they may be intelligent, careful people sharing their knowledge with the world. Only with independent verification by other sources not holding the same POV is it possible to determine the difference.

He has claimed pretty much all the sources, including the journal article not to be a reliable source, with very very dubious edit summaries. I desperately need administrator intervention on this. This is getting to be very frustrating when a user claims that a peer-reviewed scholarly journal article is an unreliable source and then goes ahead and blanks legitimate cited contents. He has already been blocked for edit warring and has a history of POV pushing and blanking. Elalan 04:11, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Blanking out verifiable info is def'ly vandalism and this needs to be warned clearly. This is an attempt by user Snowolf to show all articles showing the other side of an issue as derogatory or false. This is a much serious concern for Wiki's 5 pillars. Pls intervene. Thanks Sudharsansn 19:50, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Infact my talk page is being vandalized here Pls help. Thanks Sudharsansn 19:56, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Incivility complaint re: MONGO[edit]

Dispute resolution: This page is not part of our Dispute Resolution process.

This is not the Wikipedia complaints department. If you came here to complain about the actions of a user or administrator, or if your problem is a content issue and does not need the attention of people with administrator access, then please follow the steps in dispute resolution. These include: mediation, requests for comment, and as a last resort requests for arbitration.'s inappropriate username[edit]

Wikipedia usernames are not intended as vehicles for linkspam. However, every edit that makes inserts another link to into Wikipedia. As this user now has 1099 edits, he has now inserted at least 1099 spam links into the edit history of various pages. This continued linkspamming is disruptive. Wikipedia:Username#Inappropriate_usernames recognizes this problem, and states that

Usernames of or closely resembling the names of companies, groups, or include the URL of a particular website are discouraged and may be blocked. was asked to change his username on July 31. So far, he has stated on two occasions that he intends to do so [24] [25], but has most recently implied that he will not change his username. However, no user acquires the right to an inappropriate username by long use, provided that the username was inappropriate when it was created. Heavy use of inappropriate usernames simply represents a greater injury to Wikipedia than inappropriate usernames which are indefinitely blocked on sight. Therefore, I suggest that be blocked indefinitely. John254 14:43, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Usernameblocked. -- Avi 14:49, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I would prefer you didn't block yet. (See the block log, the messages to the user, ect) The user seems to understand now why the username needs to be changed, and seems willing to do so. If not, I can always reblock. Prodego talk 14:54, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Uh... And so this makes the linkspamming OK? Just trying to understand. BusterD 15:15, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
From what I understand the "link spamming" is that every time the account edits it leaves the URL in the page history. However, these pages aren't even counted as links by search engines (only pages with /wiki/ in the URL are cached by search engines). Of course, a username change would change the history pages anyway, so... I was in the middle of discussion with this user, and he said he would change his username, and I would assume that is in good faith. Also, I left a note to John explaining what I did, but he decided not to leave me a message, as I requested he do if he had a problem, but instead made a report here. Prodego talk 15:44, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Since users can edit their talk pages even while blocked, can specify a new username on his talk page. A bureaucrat can then change his username and unblock him. Until his username is changed, however, there is no need to continue to allow him to edit. John254 15:53, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

As John said. Also, BusterD, the name is inappropriate regardless of "spamming". See Wikipedia:Username#Inappropriate usernames. Once the user posts a request for a name change on User, any admin will gladly unblock him so that he may post on Wikipedia:Changing username. -- Avi 16:00, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Does he need to post a request on Wikipedia:Changing username personally? If a request is posted to Wikipedia:Changing username on his behalf, with a link to the diff from his talk page as evidence that he is requesting that his username be changed, I believe that the bureaucrats would act on it. John254 16:12, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps. I'm a sysop, not a b'crat, so I'm not 100% sure. We can always try Smile.gif. -- Avi 16:22, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation. Site seems like self-promotion, and behavior appears unreliable. But if the user name change is agreed, problem looks solved. Curious: how did this get to 1100 edits before blockage? Was no time frame agreed upon in first contact? This seems open and shut to an outsider. Thanks again–I'm trying to decode what is done on these pages. High-entry level of knowledge. Understand most but need to read more. BusterD 16:15, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
There are tens of thousands of wiki editors, some things are bound to slip through the cracks for a while. Thankfully, the majority of editors and sysops have wiki's best interests at heart so it is a pretty robust self-correcting environment. Thanks again! Smile.gif -- Avi 16:22, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Endorse block. He was already given the opportunity to change his username multiple times; if he wants to continue editing now, he should get a new account. --Cyde Weys 20:41, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

User:Sandover, Senate vote, and habeas corpus[edit]

User:Sandover has started adding the following paragraph to the biographies of a number of Senators:

On September 28, 2006, [senator X] voted (with a Republican majority) to suspend habeas corpus provisions for anyone deemed by the Executive Branch an "unlawful combatant", barring them from challenging their detentions in court. X's vote gave a retroactive, nine-year immunity to U.S. officials who authorized, ordered, or committed acts of torture and abuse, permitting the use of statements obtained through torture to be used in military tribunals so long as the abuse took place by December 30, 2005.[1] X's vote authorized the President to establish permissible interrogation techniques and to "interpret the meaning and application" of international Geneva Convention standards, so long as the coercion fell short of "serious" bodily or psychological injury.[2][3] The bill became law on October 17, 2006.

For some individuals, he's actually created whole sections to discuss this. So far he's added it to the bios of Joe Lieberman, Sam Brownback, Chuck Hagel, Mary Landrieu, Susan Collins, Lamar Alexander, Lindsey_Graham, Gordon Smith, Pat_Roberts, and others. Aside from the fact that the wording is prejudicial and not supported by the sources, it seems to me that this kind of boilerplate insertion is spamming for political purposes, and a violation of WP:BLP, WP:NPOV, and WP:NOR. Will he insert this paragraph into the bios of every single senator who voted for this? Is this particular vote of each senator notable in some way? Have reliable sources actually commented on these specific votes of these specific individuals?

Not only is Sandover adding the material to articles, but he is also reverting anyone who removes it. I suggest that this behavior is disruptive, and that Sandover should stop doing this. If he wants to list every senator who voted for the bill, he should do so in the article on the bill. Jayjg (talk) 16:19, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

He continues to add it to articles, for example Olympia Snowe. He's now inventing his own reasons as to why each specific vote is "notable" in some way; clearly a case of original research. Jayjg (talk) 16:26, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Not to mention he appears to be adding any dispariging news links to the articles besides just this. --InShaneee 17:31, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Password Request Bug[edit]

Hopefully, this means the password request throttle has been implememnted, but I'm not very familiar with bugzilla, so maybe someone else could take a look? [26]

I don't know Wikipedia release process well, but all that necessarily means is that there's been a change written and accepted by the MediaWiki maintainers. Actually getting that into the "live" copy which runs Wikipedia may take a little longer. Zetawoof(ζ) 19:10, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Looks active to me. Prodego talk 19:59, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Cool. Actually blocked users are blocked from making password requests now rather than a limit being set on how many can be made per day, but whatever works is fine with me. pschemp | talk 20:39, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Behavior of User:Iwazaki in the Velupillai Prabhakaran page[edit]

Iwazaki (talk · contribs) is on a vandal spree and also a personal attack campaign. With scant respect for fellow editors, this user is continuing to add content to Wiki not complying to NPOV, Verifiabiliy, Civility or simply anything else apart from the fundamental policy of 'anyone can edit anything' policy of Wiki. The user has also been issued a final warning for Civility but continues his spree of personal attacks and diplomatic vandalism. Check this Iwazaki Talk page Infact he questions the very claim of Civility to the admins who have issued warnings to him in the same page as above!!

To add to this, the user is quoting incidents from the newspapers that he has read someday. sometime ago!! Here Iwazaki has framed up two entire sections of his own, literally without any citation at all refer here. The citations he has pointed to refer to a newspaper article which he has read sometime ago and is not a piece of evidence which can be verified by everybody who would be reading that article. It is something like 'I-saw-that-in-news-once' kind of a link. It is a blank newspaper name link which isn't a hyperlink or anything at all. Check the talk page for his spurious justifications and more personal attacks [27] He is also reverting it to his own versions also making sure he isn't under the 3R rule.

For your convenience, I have created a list of a number of such attacks from the report concerned, and listed each as linked to the diff from which they were copied...

  1. "written by someone with a kindergarten level knowledge",
  2. "Speak for your self, all my comments here are in reply to what others asked..Whether they are related or not, i normally wont disappoint anyone who asks questions from me.A habbit which comes from my fathers side!!" - He is talking about his upbringing on a Wikipedia Talk page.
  3. "I bet your self had a rough time ,esp about the copy-righted pictures..So before advising and playing with sarcasm why dont you look after your self ?? i mean afterall u needed advice" - This is really too much.
  4. "Since you have done such a poor job in this article,and its not surprising considering your pre-school level knoweldge of hostory and amazing logic !! And this kid is here to make things better."
  5. "if you have problem with that, please purchase the book and read it."
  6. "it would be really nice if you work on your reading comprehension skills..All my points remain valid and u only have one kindergrten level article to back up what ever you claims",
  7. "i mean afterall u needed advice from a probably another pro-srilankan to grasp the idea of copyright policies here in wikipedia..",
  8. "i have an enormous respect to wiki and its editors..But like in every society ,there are a few here joking around..And for them i have no respect..Since i take my history very seriously, i dont want kids to come here and screw things should grasp more knowledge before coming here.",
  9. "didnt i tell you to speak for your self ?? what you have written here is not only in low quality ,but lack truth too.some of your sources are highly ambiguous, and do not qualified to be in the article.And thats what this kid do here, pointing out your "hypothesis" to save the standards of wikipedia..You have shown here so many things, lack of "reading conprehension skills" , "kidergarten level logic" , "lack of knowledge in srilankan crisis" and most importantly "lack of(or NO) knowledge in our history"..So shouldnt you think ,better to get some history lessons in school ,before even coming here to edits ??",
  10. "YOU dont need to take a day-nap to see that truth..",
  11. "and unlike some i dont have any hidden agendas.I honor my state, SLA or anyother thing, with a reason..And condemned them too, with reason..Since you have done such a poor job in this article,and its not surprising considering your pre-school level knoweldge of hostory and amazing logic !!".
...Please be advised that this is not a complete list and has been jointly compiled by User:Crimsone.

This seems to be going on for almost a month inspite of several friendly suggestions and also Admin warnings. This is a serious problem in that page and quite naturally it is spreading to other pages too. This user doesn't like Wiki policies as per some of his replies to Admin warnings and friendly suggestions by fellow editors and I really don't know what he is upto after his aforesaid statements which are listed. Quite understandeably all his actions are outside Wiki's 5 pillars!! Kindly help. Thanks Sudharsansn 19:37, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Again (didn't notice this earlier) - there is a world of difference between "jointly compiled byCrimsone" and "includes a list compiled by Crimsone used to show the user which edits he had recieved a final warning for and why". Please be more accurate in your language when describing such things, as your statement implies my taking of sides in this latest report, which is most certainly not the case. I do not wish to be drawn into a content dispute that I know little about, nor an ongoing incivility dispute between two editors I have no real connection with. All I have done is given a list of comments to the user that made them in explanation of a final warning given by an admin in response to a WP:PAIN report. Many thanks --Crimsone 21:36, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Again, pls do pardon my ignorance in editing this list. No offense meant, I just felt the urgent need for admin intervention in this issue. I had only appended to this list as I had done there. If there is anything I need to do with regd to the list here, do let me know. Pardon me for my ignorance and the copy-paste. :-) Thanks Sudharsansn 23:04, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

User:Jgp blocked[edit]

I have blocked User:Jgp indefinitely for restoring the ED link to SchmuckyTheCat's User page. User:Zoe|(talk) 21:02, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Before he was blocked by Zoe, I asked Jgp to revert the page back and he curtly refused. While I'm disappointed that this indef block was necessary, his conduct was completely indefensible. -- User:RyanFreisling @ 21:08, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
I have my doubts he'll be back regardless, but indefinite blocks seem more than a bit harsh. --badlydrawnjeff talk 21:13, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree, an indef block looks like overkill to me. User:Jgp doesn't look like a troll or someone who has never done anything useful for the encyclopedia. --Conti| 21:15, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Any user who has made it clear that they will not abide by arbcom decisions has no business being here. User:Zoe|(talk) 21:19, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Can I give you a list of folks to indefinitely block, then? Back to reality, though, he has no prior block history and a legitimate complaint, and while profane defiance isn't the way to change things, an indefinite block seems completely out of control given his history and the circumstances. --badlydrawnjeff talk 21:22, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
An indefblock for an editor in good standing is extremely out of line. It appears he only did this restoration of a link once and now he's indefblocked and has quit the project because of the indefblock.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 21:22, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
He is indef blocked, not permanently blocked. If he announces that he will abide by the ruling, instead of calling it "fucking stupid", he can be unblocked. User:Zoe|(talk) 21:24, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
The decision is "fucking stupid," and he's entitled to that opinion, as is anyone else who holds it. If he continues to re-add the link despite warnings and this block, then feel free to extend the block further. To indefinitely block on the first offense with no prior issues whatsoever is completely absurd. --badlydrawnjeff talk 21:26, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Did you read User:RyanFreisling's comments above? He was asked to remove the link, and he refused. User:Zoe|(talk) 21:28, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
And RyanFreisling has about as much cache in such a discussion as I do. Please read my point again. --badlydrawnjeff talk 21:29, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

An indef block does not mean permament. If the user takes a break (no socks), makes it clear that he understand what he did wrong, asks for a second chance in proper place, then there is a pretty good chance he will be given one. Best to let a bit of time to pass, though. --FloNight 21:31, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree. No one has to implement arbcom decisions, but no one gets to interfere with those who are. Tom Harrison Talk 21:56, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm getting very disappointed with the actions of various admins regarding their crusade / witchhunt against ED, which, with the extreme zeal by which it is pursued and the need to demonize and marginalize all opposition to the policy, is starting to take on a resemblance to the War on Drugs. *Dan T.* 00:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Jgp stated "if I'm unblocked, I won't bother re-adding the links", so that should be enough to unblock him, right? --Conti| 00:59, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I would think so, with the proviso that a significant block is re-enstated if he were to knowingly go against an ArbCom decision in the future. -- Avi 01:06, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

If he doesn't abide by the arbcom ruling and knowing adds links to the website in question, he can and will be blocked, as can any editor who knowingly violates the arbcom ruling. It's that simple. That the block is permanent is another matter, but wheel warring over a block applied that is backed by an arbcom decision would be a bad idea.--MONGO 05:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

The exact arbcom wording is:

Enforcement by block 1) Users who insert links to Encyclopædia Dramatica or who copy material from it here may be blocked for an appropriate period of time. Care should be taken to warn naive users before blocking. Strong penalties may be applied to those linking to or importing material which harasses other users. All blocks to be logged at Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/MONGO#Log_of_blocks_and_bans.

Pass 5-0 at 02:08, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

An indefinite block is clearly a strong penalty. A link to the ED homepage is not a link to material that harrasses others. Indefinite is not "appropriate" for a mere link to the ED homepage, though it's clearly compliant with the decision to do a more limited block.

I strongly support not linking to ED and the arbcom decision, and an appropriate block on those who violate it, but Arbcom sent two messages over this: one, don't abuse WP admins, and two, don't be abusive in return. If Arbcom had meant inserting any link to be indef-blockable they would have said so. And the block here has not been listed as the arbcom decision requires.

Zoe, please follow the rules. Georgewilliamherbert 05:33, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

She did follow the rules...what rule did she violate? I see nothing to indicate that she violated anything.--MONGO 05:42, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
1) No listing at the Log.
2) An indefinite block is a strong penalty, which may only be applied to those linking to or importing material which harrasses other users. A link to the ED homepage, which currently (without following any links) only has one Wikipedia reference on it, and nothing related to any WP editors as far as I see, is not harrassing other WP users.
2a) Jgp is not a naive user, knew what he/she was doing, and the second sentence does not apply.
2b) Jgp did insert a link and per Arbcom may be blocked for an appropriate period of time.
2c) In no prior arbcom decision has a single act of defiant disagreement with an Arbcom decision by a non-party been justification for an indefinite block. Arbcom decisions have been treated like any other normal policy, and violations thereof as for any other policy.
2d) One time ordinary wilful violation of WP policy is normally appropriately and consistently handled by 24-48 hr blocks and appropriate warnings.
2e) WP blocks are, by policy, preventive rather than punitive. Given a single wilful violation, other than a catastrophic attack on someone or on WP, an indef block is punitive.
As I said: Jgp shouldn't have done this and "a" block is within policy. An indef block is not, and should be overturned by Zoe, or should rightfully be overturned by another admin after 24 hrs or so if she won't. This would not be wheel-warring - it's enforcing the Arbcom decision as written.
Acting too harshly and arbitrarily lends credence to WP critics. Arbcom carefully phrased its decision. This was not a carefully phrased or carefully thought out response. Georgewilliamherbert 07:46, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Baloney...comments in the edit summary he made clearly indicated he knew what the ruling was and he clearly called another editors attempts to enforce the arbcom ruling as vandalism. His comments on his own talk page initially indicated he was both hostile and unremorseful for readding the link. The appropriate period of time as far as Zoe was concerned is indefinite...and that is not the same thing as permanent per se. You have virtually zero experience dealing with trolls, no experience administering blocks and no experience explaining why you deleted an article, so your commentary is based on a lack of experience. Zoe has been around for a long time, and I can find zero fault in what she did, especially with the remedy that was unanimously selected by the arbtrators that voted on the arbcom case.--MONGO 11:06, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
FYI, I have been dealing with Internet Trolls since 1987. My relatively short experience with WP is not indicative of a lack of experience administering moderated internet discussions. Please believe me that I would not be bringing these issues up without having plenty of background (in other internet media) with the general problems. Georgewilliamherbert 18:50, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Your labelling of a good-standing editor who has never been blocked prior as a "troll" is ridiculous and uncivil. I do not see where "inexperience" with "trolls" comes into play here. George is telling it as it should be. – Chacor 11:11, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Mongo, people who disagree with a) arbcom, b) admins, and/or c) you are not necessarily trolls. There's nothing to indicate he is or otherwise. Please stop attacking people. --badlydrawnjeff talk 11:18, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
You can read I hope...I did not call Jpg a troll...I told Georgewilliamherbert that he has no experience dealing with trolls as part of the discussion that he has no admin experience and is hardly in a position to render as good a judgement as someone who has been an admin as long as Zoe has. Please read what I wrote, not what you think I wrote.--MONGO 11:22, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Please, can everyone just cool it? Although technically correct, MONGO, think about when you were an aspiring user, and how you would have felt if some criticized your position, and it's implications on your ability to render as good a judgement as some other users. Wikipedia aspires all users to give their input, and the community can decide whether someone's points are as important/knowledgable as others. It's similar to the way the B'crats give weighting to SPA's in RFA. Jeff and Chacor, please refrain from pestering other users - assuming good faith, you misread his comment, however criticising MONGO's opinion of certain editors, whether they are valid or not, only leads to more conflict. Let's aviod making this end up somewhere we all don't want it to. Cheers, Daniel.Bryant 11:33, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Back to the point: Jgp has said that he won't reinsert the link anymore, so does anyone still disagree with me unblocking him? He, like anyone else, can of course be reblocked when the links get added back again. --Conti| 15:03, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I've unblocked him based on the link you provided. User:Zoe|(talk) 16:14, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Thank you. --Conti| 16:29, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Jgp is saying that he is autoblocked. I can't find any outstanding autoblocks, and the autoblock search tool isn't working. Can anybody help? User:Zoe|(talk) 18:44, 23 October 2006 (UTC)


I believe that this account qualifies for blocking as a vandalism-only account. His most recent edits include insertion of photographs of people that he uploaded into the prostitution and prude articles in an evident effort to defame the people depicted [28] [29]. My report on WP:AIV was removed by a user who is not an administrator because User:Leoboy725 has received "no warnings". However, Wikipedia:Vandalism does not actually require that users be warned prior to being blocked for vandalism. Furthermore, users are commonly blocked without warning for extreme cases of vandalism, such as inserting the photograph of a person into the prostitution article for the purpose of defamation [30]. John254 21:04, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Zoe warned him, and I speedily deleted the images he uploaded as vandalism. --Coredesat 21:37, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Trouble on the Andy Stephenson DRV[edit]

The deletion review on Andy Stephenson is starting to turn into the conspiracycruft circus that the AfD was. It might need a few other admins to help keep it under control. --Coredesat 21:13, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

And Tbeatty keeps deleting and editing other peoples contributions. I added this:
  • Comment :Comments from the deletionist hit squad, suggesting malfeasance:
  • 04:22, 5 October 2006 Aaron (Talk | contribs) (noting no more AfDs)
  • 04:21, 5 October 2006 Aaron (Talk | contribs) (all gone! now what will we do for fun?)
Hit Squad History What an outrageous misuse of the AfD process! Deleting articles 'for fun'. NBGPWS 05:41, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

And he deleted it. NBGPWS 06:35, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

"Hit Squad History" is a clear WP:NPA violation. You'd be better off not reinserting it. — Arthur Rubin | (talk) 22:18, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


I'd like to request another admin to review whether the edits today of Oyo321 (talk · contribs) constituted improper personal attacks. (I believe they do, but I think an uninvolved admin should review the situation.) Further, if we have an admin who can read Korean, please check to see if the Korean writing the user has been writing on some talk pages constitute personal attacks, since I have no way to check those. --Nlu (talk) 22:27, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

  • A request for assistance over on WP:RD/LANG will probably find you a Korean speaker fairly quickly. There's no reason he/she has to be an admin as long as he/she can report back here on what they read. --Aaron 22:39, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

A few more eyes are needed...[edit]

The situation at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject Tree of Life diff is really getting over the top. User:pschemp got involved as an unimplicated admin, but an RFARB took place almost immediately, and it's not fair to ask her to wade in further.

Note that User:Brya is banned, and his/her comments on his/her own talk page have been copied into the wikiproject talk space, where he/she cannot respond. The previous discussions had been archived, now brought back and added to. A cool-off period seems in order, and bringing in some cool heads and objective pairs of eyes would be a great help there. --SB_Johnny|talk|books 22:37, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

KPBotnay has been asked not to put such comments on the talk page of the project but to use dispute resolution instead. The comments were reverted and no longer exist on the page. As long as he doesn't re-insert, there's nothing more to deal with. pschemp | talk 04:48, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Image question[edit]

This woman on a toilet (non-nude) was uploaded and inserted into the prostitution article as "A typical North American whore."

It has GFDL-self, which appears to invalidate WP:SPEEDY criteria. How should this image be processed? Gotyear 23:01, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

The image was being used solely for vandalism. Deleted per CSD G3. --Slowking Man 23:05, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Per WP:IFD I would say list it there as UE (Unencyclopædic) and OR (Orphaned). But if it was just being used for vandalism, a CSD:G3 would work even better. -- Avi 23:06, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Ah! I was looking solely at the image criteria. Thanks both! Gotyear 23:08, 22 October 2006 (UTC)


First of all, Hello to you all. Straight to business. I've had a minor tiff with StalinsLoveChild (talk · contribs · count), and although I admit that I am at fault (and will accept any comments on my conduct), I've a bit worried through his comments on my talk page and on his own user and talk pages. It looks like he could be evading a previous indefblock, although i'm not entrely sure how to go about finding this out or if it's even a problem. Most worrying is his final message on my talk page - "I have had numerous past accounts on Wikipedia, which usually get shut down due to the ignorance of people like you not knowing what's best" - combined with his User page, stating that "If my userpage gets deleted AGAIN I will be extremely angry - and this time, you SHALL FEEL MY WRATH. ". Is this a problem? I don't profess to know much about indefblock polciies, and if they can create another account afterwards to evade the block? it doesn't look like he's learned his lesson, regardless. Here's to a quick reply, HawkerTyphoon 23:18, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Well its a big issue, you can file for Checkuser but there is always the issue that while they had previousa ccounts they did not actually get indef blocked and simply left the account to avoid stigma, arguements, harrassment etc. You can file a check user WP:RFCU, however you need to present evidence that they did something wrong, not simly that they had past accounts. You also, I believe need to provide a name to check against, so if you do not know who you want to accuse of being his past account there is not much that can be done. The real issue is finding out if they actually got banned before or simpyl left the accounts. --NuclearZer0 12:04, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for info, I'll bear it in mind, but I don't think I'll take it any further. I was just intrigued as to the rules regarding this. Thanks for clearing it up, though! HawkerTyphoon 16:37, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I have never been indefinitely blocked, and that's fact. This HawkerTyphoon dude has a vendetta against me for some reason - read his comments on my talkpage yourself, he has breached numerous rules, only I'm not so petty as to report them. If you can find ANY instance of me breaching ANY of Wikipedia's rules, I should like to know. StalinsLoveChild 15:23, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I just blocked this editor indefinitely for trolling and harassment, which is just about all he's done since posting here. Have a look at this particularly fine edit in case you missed it: [31]. Antandrus (talk) 01:05, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Usernameblockable too. ~crazytales56297 O rly? Ya rly! 22:49, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
This user has now asked to be unblocked, and I've been asked to explain my reasons for blocking. SLC is clearly a trolling account. Most of the mainspace edits are minor grammatical tweaks which change nothing, null edits (adding or removing a space), or vandalism/trolling ([32], or especially [33] -- make sure you read all the way to the bottom). After establishing a mainspace presence, he proceeds to troll, and every single user talk edit is a nasty one indeed. After Hawker's apology -- he hadn't really done anything so bad -- SLC began the harassment campaign, targeting Hawker's own picture. Look at his last edit [34] -- this is harassment, and has no value towards our goal, which is building an encyclopedia.
When we face users like this, we need to ask two questions: 1) is this person here to help us build an encyclopedia? 2) if not, is this person actively interfering with those of us who are? When the answers are no and yes, respectively, I helieve it is our duty as administrators to show these people the door, with as little drama as possible.
If no one else declines the unblock request, I'll go and do it myself, but I think it's better if someone other than the blocking admin does it. Thanks, Antandrus (talk) 14:56, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I too looked at the user's contributions history. Another admin has just declined the unblock request, or I would certainly have done so myself. I agree with Antandrus' block. --RobertGtalk 15:33, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Just to throw in another sixpence, this picture of me is rather, well, petty. An interesting distraction from my daily routine though it was, I didn' really agree with it. I will admit that I did insult him in my edit summary after he mistakenly added a link I had removed. He then left a message (visible on my talk page), which I didn't take kindly to. I responded thusly, which I admit was overly snappy. I then left the following message on his TP: "I removed the Geocities site, I didn't add it, and I don't need to be talked to like a piece of shit. Read WP:CIVIL, and double check your edits before you start acting yourself up as someone who knows what they're doing". I was not impressed, as you can see. But afterwards there was a period of reverting my edits, and of course placing a wronglicense tag on a picture of me, on the assertion that because I was in the picutre, I couldn't have taken it. In short, I am naughty, but he is contributing very little. It's not my place to, but I agree with the block. HawkerTyphoon 18:13, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
P.S. I was also accused of breaking racism rules, on the grounds that "Racial, ethnic, sexual, and religious slurs (yes, you have noticed my ancestry so you think you can belittle me in an article related to German history. This has not gone un-noticed)". Which made me chuckle a bit. See User talk:HawkerTyphoon#German Navy for more. HawkerTyphoon 18:16, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


I just came across TTTTrrrrrrrrroooooooooolllllllllllllllll (talk · contribs), a user who has joined wikipedia a few weeks ago, but hasn't yet made any edits afaict. Is this username allowed per WP:USERNAME or not? Aecis Dancing to electro-pop like a robot from 1984. 00:05, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Since it spells troll, it falls under Names that give the impression that you intend to cause trouble, such as "Vandal", "Hacker", "Spammer", or "Troll". I believe it's not allowed. I'm reporting it to WP:AIV. Gotyear 00:34, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Apparently, it was blocked quite a while ago: [35] --210physicq (c) 00:36, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, Physicq210. My bad. I forgot to check the block log before reporting, which is always linked via User contributions. Fyi for anyone else who looks at this, it's under "User contributions" in big letters for every user. Talk, block log, and logs. Gotyear 00:56, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

John M. Walker, Jr.[edit]

Pursuant to WP:LIVING, I recommend careful monitoring of John M. Walker, Jr. Walker is a federal appeals judge in the United States (and distant relative of President Bush) who was recently involved in a traffic accident in which a pedestrian was killed. (For sound reasons I do not feel comfortable editing this article myself with respect to controversial matters.) Newyorkbrad 00:57, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I flagged it for attention and I'll try and keep an eye on it. -- Avi 01:26, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

JarlaxleArtemis socks to block[edit]

Please block JarlaxleArtemis (talke-mailcontribspage movesblock userblock log) socks Grockenheimer (talke-mailcontribspage movesblock userblock log) and Krimgrock (talke-mailcontribspage movesblock userblock log). They've been posting spurious speedy deletion notices. See Wikipedia:Long term abuse/JarlaxleArtemis for more info. —Psychonaut 01:47, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Blocked. Naconkantari 02:09, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

User: BhaiSaab’s block and allegation of provoking anti-Semitism[edit]

I noticed that BhaiSaab was blocked for “a week” mainly due to User talk:Hkelkar#Ahmadinejad. BhaiSaab has requested for unblock.

Here is the description of the reason for block:

You have been blocked for 1 week, mainly due to User talk:Hkelkar#Ahmadinejad. Since Hkelkar is a declared Jew, and Ahmadinejad is a well-known holocaust denier and virulently anti-Semitic, I can only presume that you are trying to provoke something from him. Add to that, a lot of edit-warring and general fighting.

BhaiSaab’s request for unblock is the following:

Ahmadinejad is not anti-Semitic, so what's your problem? Does denying the holocaust automatically make one anti-Semitic and would this ever take place if he was anti-Semitic? Considering that Hkelkar goes sprouting opinions about Ahmadinejad all over the place, then you don't allow me do the same I would consider this a double standard. Another admin reviewed the same edits and I received no block, then you come in and look at the section on Hkelkars page without seeing what he did elsewhere, and decide to block me. Very irresponsible.

First of all, I should mention that I, for one, do not support Ahmadinejad in anyway. He can be very well, and in many cases rightly, criticized but fair is fair. I don’t agree that he is anti-semitic. Some may think he is but that’s a POV. As Bernard lewis writes anti-semtism has some marks:

He writes:

There is a well-worn platitude that we have all heard many times before: it is perfectly legitimate to criticize the actions and policies of the state of Israel or the doctrines of Zionism without necessarily being motivated by anti-Semitism. The fact that this has been repeated ad nauseam does not detract from its truth. Not only do I accept it, but I would even take it a step further with another formulation that may perhaps evoke surprise if not shock: it is perfectly possible to hate and even to persecute Jews without necessarily being anti-Semitic.

Anti-Semitism is something quite different. It is marked by two special features. One of them is that Jews are judged by a standard different from that applied to others. We see plenty of examples of this at the present time. But there too one has to be careful. There can be different standards of judgment on other issues too, sometimes even involving Jews, without anti-Semitism or without necessarily being motivated by anti-Semitism… The other special feature of anti-Semitism, which is much more important than differing standards of judgment, is the accusation against Jews of cosmic evil.

Thus we should distinguish between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism. I haven’t seen Lewis mentioning new anti-Semitism in Iran but rather among Arabs. Ahmadi nejad is definitely anti-Zionist but not anti-Semitic. Ahmadinejad’s denial of holocaust, while definitely unjustified, only meant that why Arab’s should pay the price of west’s anti-Semitism. I think

Aside from these comments anti-Semitism shouldn’t become a catch phrase to condemn someone. There are academic scholars who share BhaiSaab’s view (like the distinguished academic scholars of Islamic studies, Montgomery Watt). These are his words:

I do, however, think that the US is following a very dangerous policy in relation to the Middle East. The root of this trouble is that the US gives too much support to Israel. They allow them to have nuclear weapons and to do all sorts of things, some of which are contrary even to Jewish law. Jewish families occupy Arab houses without payment. That is stealing. I think that the US should be much firmer with Israel and put a lot of pressure on them, though this is difficult because of the strong Jewish lobby. Unless something is done there’ll be dangerous conflict in the Middle East. Such danger would be less likely to arise if all three Abrahamic faiths - Jews, Christians and Muslims - paid greater respect to what God teaches us about living together.


I would be thankful if the bhaisaab’s block could be removed. BTW, It seems that it was the other user who first brought up this issue and not BhaiSaab.

Thanks, --Aminz 05:36, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Well Mahmoud_Ahmadinejad_and_Israel tells quite a tale as to Ahmadinejad's side of the story, and BhaiSaab knows that he is talking to a person who is declared as a Jew User:Hkelkar. As for claims that I am pro-Hindu or something I also blocked User:Subhash bose for religious inflammation (calling Muhammad a pedophile) and User:FairNBalanced also for a week (uploading Allah=pig photo) in the past. Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 05:45, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

To Samir: Samir, please note that 1. it seems that the other user brought up the issue first. 2. The majority of people in Iran voted for ahmadinejad. So, please respect it. There are people who think he is a nice guy. 3. Israel being on the map is the POV of many people. I personally think Jews and Muslims should live peacefully together, but maybe under a common goverment. 3. He said: "Israeli prosperity is a result of leeching off the United States" during the discussion. --Aminz 05:46, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Blnguyen, see, I am an Iranian. I want a proof for your allegation of anti-semtism against Ahmadi Nejad who is a living person. Fair is fair. He is ruining many things and undefendable in many cases, but he is not an anti-semitic. I think I have the right to ask why you called him an anti-semtic. --Aminz 05:50, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
  • One week strikes me as excessive. User:Hkelkar was dishing it out pretty well him/herself: [36], "oooooooooooh! I'm so scared!I hope he is as awesome when he tries to "wipe Israel off the map" and gets blasted into a hole in the ground.Hkelkar 01:03, 19 October 2006 (UTC)" , [37], "We'll see who tries to harm Israel. Israel is too prosperous, wealthy and successful to be threatened by some mad mullah.Israel has first world technology, art, science. Israel doesn't ram planes into buildings or behead journalists on television. No medeival dump with a theocratic mullah running things can be a threat to the holy land. Nor any other Arab/Persian/whatever country for that matter.Hkelkar 01:07, 19 October 2006 (UTC)", [38] "Like I said, we still win. You still lose.Hkelkar 01:15, 19 October 2006 (UTC)". (Netscott) 05:51, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it seems that Hkelkar was leading the discussion and BhaiSaab was merely responding. --Aminz 05:54, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

While Hkelkar's comments were not appropriate, they do not justify BhaiSaab's in any way -- Samir धर्म 06:04, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
I think we need to analyze this issue in its context. Hklekar was the initiative and that's important. BhaiSaab's comments were short and in response to his comments. And again, I know that it might not be appropriate to write so in wikipedia, but BhaiSaab has a POV which is not far from that of some renowned academics. But I agree that he shouldn't have wrote them on Hkelkar's talk page, but again, the initiative was Hkelkar. --Aminz 06:08, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Agreed that context is important. However, this is not a POV block issue, it is a block for inappropriate comments, which BhaiSaab made, regardless of the context thereof; the bottom line is that his comments were inflammatory even if he was provoked. As such, I think the block was appropriate. I have to leave but, I agree that the comments of Hkelkar should probably be reviewed as well -- Samir धर्म 06:11, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
That doesn't justify BhaiSaab's statements, but I think the fair thing would be to block both. Hkelkar's comments were obviously provocative. Titoxd(?!?) 06:14, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Samir, apparently those were the last in a line of inappropirate commentary by User:Hkelkar. Have a look here. Hkelkar's sarcastic use of terms like, "Halaal?" and "..should regard me as the Mujaddid.." and "infidel" while referencing User:BhaiSaab appeared in the lead up to BhaiSaab's blocking and I suspect there are other examples of such commentary as well, Aminz? Equally inappropriate commentary should merit equal punishment no? I see a 12 hour block for User:Hkelkar, but no 12 hour block for User:BhaiSaab (obviously he got a week). (Netscott) 06:17, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
To be frankly honest, in this sphere of editing it is basically close to worthless to police for mild personal attacks as it is more or less standard amongst this lot. I have already blocked HKelkar for the ad hominem Jihad references. So that leaves religious and racial inflammation, which BhaiSaab appears to have done. Hkelkar's personal jibe is more or less the norm in this area. Things which are meant to raise the ire of others by insulting religious figures or ethnicities is what matters more. Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 06:21, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Blnguyen, I agree with you about the propensity for personal attacking in the sphere of these topics and the virtual pointlessness of trying to police this but are you denying the religiously inflammatory nature of User:Hkelkar's commentaries? (Netscott) 06:30, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
But it is clear that Hkelkar was actively provoking BhaiSaab. BhaiSaab mentioned his POV(which by itself is a POV), which he shouldn't have mentioned. A week is too much seeing that Hkelkar was blocked for only 12 hours. --Aminz 06:24, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

(leftshift after edit conflict) Let's make something clear. This is not about Ahmadinejad, and this is not a mere political dispute. This is about BhaiSaab's behavior and being uncivil. Let's note that this user did not think twice before using offensive language. Holocaust denial indeed constitutes antisemitism (and not "anti-Zionism"). I strongly support Blnguyen's decision on this matter. ←Humus sapiens ну? 06:19, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

We can discuss it whether Ahmadinejad's denial of holocaust was anti-semitism or not, but did BhaiSaab deny it? He just said Israel shouldn't have been in the map in the first place. That is not a good comment to be made in wikipedia, but why is it anti-semtism? --Aminz 06:27, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I also support Blnguyen's actions - BhaiSaab's comments were completely uncalled for. Hkelkar is a seperate issue - his frequent appearances on WP:PAIN to report people show a pattern of provoking others, that however, is a matter for RfC not a reson to unblock another editor. Shell babelfish 06:33, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
May I ask you if you consider prof. Edward Said an anti-semitic? Again, I think BhaiSaab comments were not proper but not anti-semitic. A week is too long, given that he was provoked. --Aminz 06:36, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
I was talking about the comment "Does denying the holocaust automatically make one anti-Semitic". To Aminz question: please read New anti-Semitism. Meanwhile, let's note that this was only one of many offensive things that BhaiSaab said. And for the record, I don't recall ever seeing contribs by Hkelkar (talk · contribs). Please let's not make this a political talkbox. Thanks. ←Humus sapiens ну? 06:39, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
I have seen New anti-Semitism and I think the views of some scholars such as Lewis are downplayed, or not properly reflected. BhaiSaab didn't really said much offensive things. His comments were short responses to Hkelkar. This discussion shouldn't have take place in the first place and it was Hkelkar who started it. --Aminz 06:46, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I'm an anti-Zionist (heck, I'm an anti-nationalist) and I'm not an anti-Semite. I don't think BhaiSaab should be given extra punishment because an admin doesn't like one of his political positions. This isn't to say that BhaiSaab is a model editor, but then neither is Hkelkar. We're seeing Indian domestic politics erupt in WP and it's an ugly sight. Zora 06:50, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, anti-Semitism means a discrimination against the jews simply because they are jews. BhaiSaab's argument wasn't hanging around the fact that Israel was formed by Jews but that why Israel was formed. It is a political position and has nothing to do with anti-semtism. --Aminz 07:06, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Hmmm, maybe I haven't read well all of the details of this but where has User:BhaiSaab denied the Holocaust? Obviously he's pro-Mahmoud Ahmadinejad (who himself alludes to such thinking) but can one not be generally pro something while concurrently against certain aspects of that thing? (Netscott) 07:11, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Errr, this isn't about BhaiSaab's political opinions. It's about him making in this case an ethnically inflammatory jibe – irrespective of what anybody thinks of Ahmadinejad, he is inextricably associated (regardless of anybody's opinion of him) as being anti-Semitic, Holocaust denying and Hitler apologist and the use of the jibe could only be seen as an attempt at ethnic/religious bloodboiling. Such incidents as the Muhammad=pedophile comment by Subhash bose and the Allah=Pig comment by FairNBalanced have also been met with a one week block.
In the case of Hkelkar, the type of behaviour he engages in more or less the norm in this sphere of editing we are talking about. Both sides more or less assume bad faith, accuse the others of being out to get them, siege mentality, sarcasm, calling each other bigots, extremists, fundamentalists, arbitrary sock allegations etc. - see Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:AMbroodEY/Fundy_Watch andWikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Category:Patriotic Indian Wikipedian's Guild – as such this kind of behaviour is more or less ignored or else we would have no coverage of India-Pakistan religious politics articles. I have found it useless to police people for this type of behaviour (See my talk archives – if anybody wants to start trying to police this area properly, then they are welcome to try), so the line is basically when somebody makes racial insults or religious lampoonery akin to the Muhammad cartoons etc in an attempt at bloodboiling. In the case of Kelkar (a declared Jew) here, he has claimed that the other users are doing an “Ahmadinejad” on him – this is the standard in this area of editing - to claim that users with opposing POV have an agenda. I do not see how this is equivalent to what BhaiSaab, bose or FairNBalanced have done.Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 07:25, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm not familiar with the Subhash Bose case but as far as User:FairNBalanced is concerned the comparison of User:BhaiSaab to him isn't fully justified imho. User:FairNBalanced had been inserting himself into a group of Muslim editors and making religiously hateful edits for a long time prior to his final insult with the AllahPig image and it was for that reason that his weeklong block was merited. I've seen the ridiculous Muhammad=Pedophile idiocy bandied about repeatedly (User:Mike18xx comes to mind) and not seen blocking for it but merely warnings. In a similiar vein Andy Rooney recently made the argument that it was ridiculous that the American government should be hypocritically saying that other countries like North Korea and Iran shouldn't have the bomb. One could argue that he supports these countries because of this... but in reality that's false because his opinion is that no country should have the bomb. User:BhaiSaab was certainly baiting User:Hkelkar with his pro Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and anti-Zionist commentary but I don't think his having done that was much worse than what User:Hkelkar himself has had a pattern of doing. (Netscott) 07:36, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, I blocked Bose was new and I blocked immediately for that one, because that kind of inflammatory hate-speech isn't allowed. As for FairNBalanced, I had never heard of him and when Crzrussian reported it, I blocked immediately and asked people who appeared very familiar to adjust as necessary as I didn't have knowledge of what his past was. I am not comparing the records of BhaiSaab and FairNBalanced, I am referring to their singular acts. I asked people to modify FairNBalanced's block based on their knowledge of his past and nobody did anything. I don't feel that your comparison to N Korea is valid. People on WP repeatedly show their political opinions on political leaders all the time and nothing happens. I myself have been aware that BhaiSaab feels that Israel is illegitimate since August and declined a block request from his sparring partners. What happens here is that the uncontrollable norm of incivility, AGF violations, personal jibes, bogus accusations of misbehaviour and mudslinging etc in this area has crossed into the RED ZONE of making ethnic or religious jibes, which is where the magnitude of the block comes in. These guys have been doing the standard niggling tactics for 2 months. Blnguyen | BLabberiNg 07:52, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
BhaiSaab just said that Israel shouldn't have been formed in the first place and that Ahmadinejad is nice. That's it. --Aminz 07:15, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Can anyone supporting this week long block provide a diff showing solid proof of anti-Semitic commentary/trolling on the part of User:BhaiSaab (anit-Zionist commentary is readily apparent)? Thanks. (Netscott) 07:20, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Here are two that strike me as uncivil and intentionally offensive: Israel shouldn't be on the map in the first place. Israeli prosperity is a result of leeching off the United States. But I can imagine for someone who doesn't know the History of anti-Semitism, these won't ring a bell. ←Humus sapiens ну? 07:40, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for you response Humus sapiens. Those are undeniably anti-Zionist statements but can you honestly argue that they are undeniably anti-Semitic? I see confusion on the part of commentators here between anti-Zionism and anti-Semitism... the arguement to new anti-Semitism is a weak one as the whole phenomenon of "new anti-Semitism" is debatable given the arguments of folks like Norman Finkelstein (see this). (Netscott) 07:46, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Humus sapiens, thanks for sharing your thoughts. As far as I know anti-Semitism didn't happen in Muslim lands. Muslims were not treating Christians and Jews differently in any way, and traditionally Jews and Muslims were closer to each other than each of them was to Christians. It was only after the establishment of Israel that we observe this unfriendly conversations between Jews and Muslims. Otherwise, they were very close to each other, (and I would like to think they are). That's all I know about the history of anti-semitism. --Aminz 07:52, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Incorrect.My own matrilineal ancestors came to India from Iraq to flee the persecution of Jews there. This was in the 18th century. Read about the history of the Baghdadi Jews in India, particularly David Sassoon.Plus, the Jews in Pakistan were ethnically cleansed together with the Hindus during partition in 47. Read about the now nonexistent Peshawar jewsih community. Khushwant Singh's "Train to Pakistan" also talks about the ethnic cleansing of the Pakistani Jews. None of this had anything to do with Israel.Hkelkar 07:58, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
For the reference to my comment, please see Mark Cohen (1995). Under Crescent and Cross: The Jews in the Middle Ages. Princeton University Press. p.xvii ; Lewis (1984) Jews of Islam p.85 and Carl Ernst Following Muhammad: Rethinking Islam in the Contemporary World, UNC Press, p.13 All I said was quite factual. --Aminz 08:04, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
All right. Let me add my own two cents. It is my goal to make scholarly and well-referenced edits to wikipedia.However, I am a human being with human flaws, including the tendency to get provoked. Bear in mind that it was BhaiSaab who started the talk page conversation regarding the holocaust denier who's currently running Iran.I reacted aggressively, and for that I am regretful.However, let me add some more facts.Prior to the talk page incitement, I was on #wikipedia-en chatting about an unrelated matter when Bhaisaab showed up and PM'ed me. He made some of the most frightening comments I had heard in my life, up to and including polemical attacks against Jews (not Israel, but Jews as a people). A lot of these statements are considered as anti-semitic. I did not react well to those statements and was in a very agitated state.
However, since these statements were made off wikipedia, I ask that it be entered into evidence only as context. The context establishes that he intended to provoke me with inflammatory comments following the outcome of an edit war in another article (which, when thankfully stopped by administrator intervention, did not leave the situation in his favor). His support of the holocaust denier's call to eradicate Israel is a follow-up to that off-wikipedia conversation. When I first referred to the holocaust denier who's presently running things in Iran, I was addressing neither the user BhaiSaab nor the holocaust denier in the first person. Ergo, the comment, not directed at any specific person, does not count as an incitement. The only way it could have incited BhaiSaab was if he already had the view that any reference to the holocaust denier in a negative vein had to be responded to aggressively and with malice against the one who made the statement, and I cannot be held responsible for such an attitude.
Plus, regarding the apparently overwhelming support for BhaiSaab, I ask reviewers to dig a little deeper into the users who make such statements.Specifically, the block logs, and the temporal correlations with their reactions to the blocks and those of BhaiSaab in prior incidents.Also, glean from all this the apparent "Quid-pro-quo" system where BhaiSaab has similarly raised a stink when some of these users got blocked.Plus, cross-reference the users who speak "on his behalf" and the members listed in the Muslim Guild page, as well as the edits of these users in earlier debates, some of which are quite prejudiced against specific ethnic and religious groups and point to a level of hate that I had not expected to see on wikipedia. Correlate those ethnic groups to the ones involved in this issue, either directly or peripherally, and you will see that there is far more to this matter than meets the eye.
Now, like Pontius Pilate, I shall wash my hands of this matter altogether. Do whatever you please.Hkelkar 07:20, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
"...Some of which are quite prejudiced against specific ethnic and religious groups..." Is it a personal attack?--Aminz 07:28, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Er, a personal attack from me? On whom?Hkelkar 07:30, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Plus, cross-reference the users who speak "on his behalf" and the members listed in the Muslim Guild page, as well as the edits of these users in earlier debates, some of which are quite prejudiced against specific ethnic and religious groups and point to a level of hate that I had not expected to see on wikipedia. Dear Administrators, the only person talking on the behalf of BhaiSaab is me, and I am the only member of Muslim Guild here. Kelkar says I am quite prejudiced against specific ethic and religous groups which I consider a personal attack on myself. --Aminz 07:35, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Actually, my statements were very carefully worded. I did not say that there was a connection between the Muslim Guild editors here and prejudiced comments. There are several users speaking on BhaiSaab's behalf. If A is a subset of C and B is a subset of C then that does not mean that A=B. See Venn diagram to understand this point better.Hkelkar 07:44, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Actually, Subhash Bose used to this type of Venn diagram stuff tooTerryJ-Ho
The logical fallacy in this claim is obvious if you can draw some Venn Diagrams.Your argument is problematic. The contrapositive of a logical statement WOULD be true if you have firmly established that EVERY INSTANCE OF set A leads to EVERY INSTANCE of set B, and you haven't established that at all.None of these so called "scholars" (with no background in mathematics or logic it would seem) have.(Netaji 11:00, 4 July 2006 (UTC))
Yes many wikipedians like to use logical arguments. So every logician on wikipedia is my "sock" ^__^.Hkelkar 19:07, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Not many work in the same laboratory,study in the same university,work almost on the same set of articles with similar perception,use similar sources,are common friends,express the same love for Zionism,act in the same aggressive manner,lie indiscriminately.One can recognise Bakaman's language,Bhaaisaab's language,Zora's language before reading their names.TerryJ-Ho 20:57, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Please have a look at this:

Thanks --Aminz 08:56, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Posting an IRC log is a policy violation: see [39]. ←Humus sapiens ну? 19:59, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Its not a channel log, its the log of a PM. --NuclearZer0 00:03, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
I support the admins actions here. The language the blocked user used was completely inappropriate and completely against the spirit and the letter of the law on Wikipedia. A week block seems fair. Elizmr 20:13, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
I also must voice my support for Blnguyen's and Samir's action. Nothing justifies BhaiSaab's behaviour; I have been attacked, insulted, provoked in far worse ways, and have never dreamed of awnsering them how BhaiSaab has, earning him is well deserved block, that I invite not to shorten. Yes, Hkelkar's behaviour is very far from exemplary, and may deserve also a block, even if it is, sadly, normal behaviour in certain areas of wikipedia. And yes, holocaust denial is antisemitism.--Aldux 23:37, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Well this isnt the first time BhaiSaab has made anti-Israel/Semitic comments [40].Bakaman Bakatalk 01:27, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
There's a difference between anti-Israel and anti-Semitic, a difference many people seem to miss on Wikipedia. BhaiSaab talk 11:04, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
And not the first time HKelkar has used provocation TerryJ-Ho 18:21, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Well BhaiSaab has been blocked a multitude of times (9 to be exact), mostly for contentious edits and revert warring. It would be 10 but for the fact that he misled an admin to believe I had vandalized an article (while he was doing the blanking) under the canard of "copyvio". Terry, if you havent forgot, you yourself have given users nice names like "fascist" and "paid agent".Bakaman Bakatalk 20:16, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
This accusation has been obviously proved wrong on my talk page. BhaiSaab talk 11:04, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

The admins should take into account that