Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive147

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Cedarhurst, New York[edit]

There is serious edit war at Cedarhurst, New York where a veteran user alansohn (talk · contribs) is trying to intimidate a new user Helical Rift (talk · contribs). For example Alansohn is calling this editors changes vandalism which is result in a block.[1] Both users have been uncivil, but perhaps the new user doesn't know about WP:CIVIL as the veteran user has raised the temperature of the argument. Alansohn has a history of referring to other editors as vandals and throwing around name calling see: Talk:B. H. Carroll Theological Institute.

An admin. needs to step in the middle of this violation of WP:BITE. Arbusto 08:07, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

  • This seems to already be resolved, other than Arbusto/oo's efforts to interfere with the resolution. User:Helical Rift had removed Category:Orthodox Jewish communities from the article Cedarhurst, New York, based on his interpretation of the category implying that the location was 100% Orthodox. After clarifying the scope of the category based on the examples of the communities already listed therein, Helical Rift was given several examples of communities with both Irish and Orthodox communities that are labeled as Irish, despite being under 100% (or 50% for that matter). Helical Rift then modified the description of the category to require a majority population. After several attempts at deleting and restoring the category, Helical Rift was told that the article has an explicit source for Cedarhurst being an Orthodox community. Helical Rift, then proceeded to remove all references to Cedarhurst's Orthodox community from several locations within the article, and then claimed that "article does not mention orthodox jewish communities..." in the edit summary. Helical Rift was warned that such removal was vandalism, removed it again and was warned a second time. After re-offering a suggestion that we label Cedarhurst as both Orthodox AND Italian, we were able to agree that this soultion would address our mutual concerns. Arbusto seems to have created this ANI in violation of WP:POINT. This issue seems to have been resolved with the user in question, but Arbusto/oo seems to have inserted himself into this issue, goading User:Helical Rift into further action after the situation seems to have been successfully addressed, even after Helical Rift pleaded to end this argument. Arbusto/oo has persisted in misinterpreting an explicit source that specifies Cedarhurst as an Orthodox community, deciding that the source is not valid because it does not state the exact words that Cedarhurst is an Orthodox Jewish community, a nonsensical standard that is not applied anywhere else in Wikipedia. This issue should be closed immediately, assuming that Arbusto/oo has no further need to interfere with the subject. Alansohn 08:44, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I just saw this as I posted the new incident below. I had already seen the altercation between them and warned them both about 3RR. They both deserve to be temporarily blocked for edit warring / 3RR and at least one should be cautioned for bad language. I have also nominated the category in dispute for deletion. --ArmadilloFromHell 08:51, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I would like to say that yes, the issue has been resolved but Arbusto did not "goad" me. I had strong feelings on the matter and discussed it with Alansohn. To me, the matter is closed and I apologize for my bad language. Alansohn was also changing the Cedarhurst page as well every time that I did so we are both at fault. This is an incident that will not be repeated Helical Rift 09:14, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

The Cedarhurst, New York issue seems to have been addressed with User:Helical Rift. All that stands open now is Arbusto/oo's efforts to stir up a false claim that the article does not meet the category's standards, after all, based on his blatant misinterpretation of an article that explicitly provides the needed source. Arbusto/oo's bad faith in this issue can best be seen at User talk:Arbustoo#Alansohn. Alansohn 09:15, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Bad faith this new user was being bullied by YOU and contacted me on my talk see below. Arbusto 21:06, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

As I said, this issue is closed. Alansohn is not helping the issue now by incriminating Arbustoo. Both of those editors have a past history that they need to resolve on their own. The issue at hand is between me and Alansohn. The matter has been dropped and again, I apologize for the absurdness of this. Helical Rift 09:17, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

The category is dispute was put up for deletion where Alansohn has continued his games. You more striking is his violation of WP:POINT.[2] Arbusto 21:06, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

User:Alansohn and User:Helical Rift are continung their edit war on their respective talk pages. Since I have my own issues with what's going on and would not be considered neutral, I don't want to be the one sending out warnings, but it's become very uncivil and needs to be stopped. --ArmadilloFromHell 22:00, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

User:Helical Rift and I have addressed and resolved our outstanding issues, as reflected on our respective talk pages. Unless anyone else has any issues to address in this matter, it should be closed, Alansohn 19:27, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Do we have a personal info issue here?[edit]

I'm afraid that the editor may have exposed personal information here, but I am not sure. What is the procedure? -- Avi 18:35, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I meant to say Gary Weiss editor, Mantanmoreland has said categorically that they are not Gary Weiss. Arniep 18:47, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
How do you spin this [3]? Another typing error? The word for what you are doing is "harassment," for which you are digging into the trash pits of the usual attack websites.--Mantanmoreland 18:50, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
So it is just personal attacks and incivility, not personal info. That is a relief. Personal info needs to be revereted immediately. NPA/INCIVIL can be handled through normal channels. Although I am afraid I must concur with Mantanmoreland that Arniep seems to forget WP:CIVIL, WP:AGF, and WP:NPA on a rather regular basis. -- Avi 18:54, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
And on just a regular basis you and Mantanmoreland go round reverting "in sync" and post sarcastic messages about vandalism with little smiley faces on userpages of anyone that has expressed criticism of Israel (actually the last bits just Avi). Arniep 18:56, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I believe that is called Freudian projection, Arnie Smile.gif. I use emoticons and smileys since body language cannot be transmitted in cyberspace. I daresay there are more non-Israel related smileys than not. Regardless, this is another example of your inability to assume good faith and what I am afraid is the projection of your own issues into others. -- Avi 19:02, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
That is nonsense. You use the smiley faces most often when in dispute with muslim editors or people who have expressed criticism of Israel- please refrain from doing so and posting vandalism template messages telling people to "go and experiment in the sandbox" when they are clearly experienced and do not need to "play in the sandbox" and neither were their edits vandalism. Arniep 19:09, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm afraid the facts would tend to disagree with you. And even not, perhaps my point is to show that I am trying toengage in open dialogue as well as see to the enforcement of wiki guidelines and policies, as opposed to some other editors that may come to mind ;) -- Avi 19:28, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I am afraid that Avi is incorrect on this point [4]. Contrary to Arniep's feeble effort to spin it, this was an effort to reveal my supposed "identity." My understanding is that purporting to reveal the actual identity of an editor is a bannable offense whether the "outing" is correct or, as in this case, wrong. I've been attacked right and left in an attack website and tabbed the identity of a well-known author because of my edits in articles unrelated to this one. Arniep picked up those attacks and harassed me with it. He should receive the appropriate penalty, which is an indefinite block. P.S. The "in sync" business is absolute rubbish, as our respective contribs indicate.--Mantanmoreland 19:03, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

MM how is it your first edit today was to leap in and revert the Mahmoud Ahmedinejad article when there was an obvious edit war going on? Have you been discussing this edit war outside Wikipedia? Perhaps you would like to explain why you have used sock puppet accounts to edit the Gary Weiss article to keep it to your POV as proven here? You're the one that should be banned, not me. Arniep 19:16, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
And I see that you are, in addition, a meatpuppet of User:WordBomb, whom you are parroting, as further indicated by your sudden interest in Wordbomb's favorite subject[5]. As for blocks, I can learn a lot from you on that subject, as you have a half-dozen so far. [6]--Mantanmoreland 19:21, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I think all people involved in this behaviour - whether it be incivility, false accusations, personal attacks etc, need to step back and stop editing the areas of the site where they are coming across these issues for a while. Edit something else and think about what Wikipedia is - an encyclopedia, not a battleground for personal grudges etc... Also note that personal attacks, incivility and harrassment are not acceptable. If they continue, the editor in question will end up being blocked.
If you do not want to take a break for some reason, I suggest that you go to dispute resolution.-Localzuk(talk) 19:36, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Excuse me, but I made an edit on Mahmoud Ahmedinejad (for the first time in many weeks) and User:Arniep, whom I have never encountered in my life, commenced the unprovoked assault on me described above. Are you suggesting that I cease editing Mahmoud Ahmedinejad because of this editor's misconduct?
"Wikipedia users, especially administrators, will not permit a user under attack to be isolated, but will support them. This may include reverting harassing edits, protecting or deleting pages, blocking users, or taking other appropriate action." [7]--Mantanmoreland 19:40, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
No. Based on the amount of arguing on this page that the 3 of you are involved in at the moment, I am advising all 3 of you to. I am going to warn the individual users using the correct templates regarding individual conduct, but it seems that the problems that are occuring are not going to stop simply because editors are warned. I am suggesting that all 3 of you calm down and realise what the purpose of this site is. What do you gain by sitting on this page and arguing between yourselves? All that will happen will be that admins come along and start blocking people for being disruptive. Rather than that happen, wouldn't you say that voluntarily calming down and doing something else for a while would be a better option?-Localzuk(talk) 19:53, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
OK, I pledge to not edit Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for the foreseeable future! (Trick answer.... the page was just protected!) ;) Seriously, I appreciate your effort to calm the waters.--Mantanmoreland 20:03, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Thank you. BTW. I am not an admin, just a friendly editor :) - ArnieP's behaviour is not appropriate and as such it should probably be taken to an WP:RFC. However, my advice was for the short term prevention of this fighting and to calm things down to allow all the editors here to understand the viewpoints of each other. -Localzuk(talk) 20:07, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I believe WP:RFC is for content disputes. This is the correct forum for disruption/harassment, and please note another editor raised this issue here, not myself. Thanks again for your good offices and yes I realize you are just a Good Samaritan.--Mantanmoreland 20:25, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

(outdenting) WP:RFC is for article content, user conduct, and policy proposals and article conventions, so it is an applicable use of that phase of the dispute resolution process. -- Avi 20:28, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Also, this is not the appropriate forum for this behaviour... Just so you know. As stated, RFC is the place to go if you cannot come to some sort of agreement.-Localzuk(talk) 21:16, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Arniep has also harassed me. He is a regular poster to Wikipedia Review. He engaged in what he saw as an off-wiki "investigation" into what he thinks is my personal life. He decided he knew who I was in real life, and he started posting what he thought were personal details about me on that website. He then passed what he thinks is my name to Daniel Brandt. I know it was him because he e-mailed to tell me. He said he didn't pass the information to Brandt directly, but did it via a third party, but I have no reason to believe him. However, even if that's true, he's still responsible for it. It doesn't surprise me at all that he is doing this Mantanmoreland. SlimVirgin (talk) 22:39, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I've deleted the Arniep edit that (as he saw it) tried to out someone. An admin with oversight may want to get rid of it entirely. SlimVirgin (talk) 23:09, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
This is considerably more than a content dispute, and telling three editors not to edit a page because one of them harasses and makes threats is ignoring the actual problem.
According to WP:BLOCK: "Users who post what they believe are the personal details of other users without their consent may be blocked for any length of time, including indefinitely, depending on the severity of the incident, and whether the blocking admin feels the incident was isolated or is likely to be repeated." Arniep has attempted to "out" at least two editors here, and shows no remorse nor desire to amend his ways. He has harrassed me, accusing me (without offering any diffs or examples to support his accusations) of wikistalking. I have had limited contact with him, and every single instance has been him making wild accusations against me while ignoring policies, up to and including replacing a signed message by me with content of his own, leaving my signature. He has never acknowledged any error, and his attitude throughout has been of a bully who attempts to paint himself as the "victim" whenever his actions have been criticised. I see no reason for an Rfc; this user is not suitable for interaction with others. Unless someone makes an incredibly strong case for not indef blocking him for harassment, "outing", and disruption, I will do so.
Background of my interactions with this user: User_talk:KillerChihuahua/Archive03#Vandalism, User_talk:Arniep#KillerChihuahua, User_talk:FeloniousMonk/Archive_3#KillerChihuahua, User_talk:KillerChihuahua#Being_Stalked_by_User - in which Arniep calls a block warning a violation of CIVIL and misrepresents Thatcher131's actions, User talk:KillerChihuahua#Your message.
KillerChihuahua?!? 23:40, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
There is "an incredibly strong case for not indef blocking him for harassment", Puppy. You're too late. AnnH 00:02, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
In that case what can I say except that, obviously, I support your block. KillerChihuahua?!? 00:33, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Ah, in that case it looks like we'd be better off without him. Also, my advice to not edit the page was simply to try and get all editors involved to calm down - as their dispute had rolled over to here - this seems like a pretty standard thing to ask them to do to me, as I have seen other editors and admins ask the same thing.-Localzuk(talk) 23:43, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Community patience[edit]

Has Arniep exhausted community patience? JoshuaZ 23:45, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Based on all the above, yes. Thε Halo Θ 23:49, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I would say, definitely. I have had no personal disputes with him, but have warned him a few times. He has a long record of harassing other editors. And it's not as if he didn't know not to post personal details. He has been warned about it before. I've blocked indefinitely. AnnH 00:02, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree. The only reason I didn't request an indefblock when he tried to "out" me is that I try to ignore Wikipedia Review, and I didn't want to pay him any further attention. However, if he's going to continue with the same behavior toward others, especially on-wiki, he needs to go. SlimVirgin (talk) 23:56, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, we don't need to have patience for this type of thing. Indefinite block is appropriate for intentionally repeatedly violating policies. - Taxman Talk 00:13, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes, trolls are not allowed on Wikipedia. If you have tried every attempt to make the user pay attention to warnings, have attempted to resolve dispute to no consensus on his part, and he is still being disruptive, theres no reason not to indef block. But if he is willing to change, give him the oppritunity before calling it quits. semper fiMoe 00:23, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

He has demonstrated repeatedly he has no remorse and no interest in modifying his behavior whatsoever. When applicable policies are given to him, he claims "harassment" or "stalking" or some other wrong is being done to him - and conveniently fails to respond to his own violations. I fail to comprehend in what way the repeated efforts to reach this user have been insufficient. Or are you unaware of how many chances he has already been given? KillerChihuahua?!? 00:32, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
I was talking hypothetically about any user :) semper fiMoe 00:53, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree and support the block. In this instance it is important to remember that this Amriep had had zero previous contact with me. I had never even heard of him before. Out of the blue he starts harrassing me for no reason whatsoever except sheer malice.--Mantanmoreland 00:37, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Support. If anything his already questionable behavior has been only been deteriorating. There's a Spanish proverb that says "Experience is not always the kindest of teachers, but it is surely the best." Unfortunately, in this case, Arniep seems to have learned the wrong lesson. Let's make sure we learn the right one. Jayjg (talk) 00:40, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
He is usually unwilling to talk or discourse, Moe, as can be seen from the actions and edit summaries here, here, and here to show a few. -- Avi 00:42, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Well then, theres no reason to keep him here is there? Support indefblock. semper fiMoe 00:53, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

As per WP:BLOCK quoted by KillerChihuahua above and the evidence presented above by multiple users, I fully support the indefinitely blocking of Arniep. --PinchasC | £€åV€ m€ å m€§§åg€ 01:05, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Support as well. Usually the users who are always unwilling to discuss tend to be the most problematic. Khoikhoi 01:07, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Strong support for this long overdue ban. In addition to today's incident, Ariep has been repeatedly warned about his incivility, intimidation, lack of good faith, backstabbing and conspiracy mongering. Here's an attempt to reason with him a long time ago: Offensive_comments_in_Village_pump_.28policy.29_discussions, Offensive_comments_in_afd_discussions, and here's a more recent one Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive143#Moshe_Constantine_Hassan_Al-Silverburg. ←Humus sapiens ну? 01:57, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
I support it as well... FeloniousMonk 03:01, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Throw my name in as well. Daniel.Bryant T · C ] 05:14, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
At the risk of a pile-on, I'll just add that Arniep was, I thought, trying to bait Avi on my talk page by deleting a joke Avi made there and insinuating that it was somehow an attack on me by Avi (which it most clearly wasn't). You can see it here. I wasn't that familiar with Arniep, so just let it go. But it all seems part of a pattern now. Support. IronDuke 05:26, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Note User:Musical Linguist has now blocked Arnie indefinitely following unanimous community consensus. Proto::type 15:44, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Admin help requested on Georgi Parvanov[edit]

Over the last few days the Georgi Parvanov article has been having some very POV external links to self published websites added by several different accounts whom I suspect are the same user. Initially an IP (talkcontribsWHOISblock userblock log), and more recently two user accounts Petervonpauer (talkcontribspage movesblock userblock log) and Petervonpower (talkcontribspage movesblock userblock log) All edits by each account have been n regard to links to these websites. Although messages have been left by several editors regarding the links none of the accounts have responsded. Diffs [8], [9], [10], [11], [12], [13], [14], [15], [16], [17], [18].

If these accounts are all the same user they have broken 3RR (though they have not been warned specifically for that), but more importantly these, links seem to be well out of keeping with our NPOV and BLP guidelines. The editors watching the articles and reverting generally seem to be in different time zones so the links stay on for hours at a time. Could an admin take a look at this? Or advise me if I need to take it to check user first, or take some other action. Thanks --Siobhan Hansa 14:21, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

thanks for spotting this. The account User:Petervonpauer has already been blocked for a substantial and appropriate length of time. I have warned both the IP and the sockpuppet account User:Petervonpower that they may not be used to evade that block, since they are clear and obvious sockpuppets. If any account or IP is used to evade the block on User:Petervonpauer it will be blocked on sight. I will watchlist the Georgi Parvanov article - feel free to contact me directly if the user appears again under any account or IP. Gwernol 15:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

User name[edit]

Mr Spunky Toffee is this allowable?--Light current 01:51, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Whenever people mention a username they don't like, perhaps we should require they state why it's objectionable. --Golbez 01:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
It could be offensive to some people. Spunk--Light current 02:03, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
"Spunk is: * a term for courage or enthusiasm" How offensive! --Golbez 03:14, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Amongst other things. And how does it relate to toffee?--Light current 03:21, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, and a name such as Pussycat could be offensive to some people. To others, it's what you call a cute little kitten. Should it be banned? -Amarkov blahedits 02:05, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Im only asking peoples opinions. I dont want to start an international incident!--Light current 03:24, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
That's fine, but please, give a reason in the future. --Golbez 03:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I thought the reason would be obvious. But it looks like it wasnt! 8-)--Light current 03:39, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Dunno as a rule of thumb I'd say, if you have to ask then it's borderline enough to let go (at worst). If the user goes on to do something they shouldn't it'll be picked up quickly enough anyway --pgk 07:29, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Nah, spunky toffee would take some effort to see the smut in it. I think blockable names are the ones where it takes effort to find the non-offensive meaning. We don't want to get to Beavis and Butthead land, where we start saying, "He said 'hard.' huh-huh-huh." Geogre 11:59, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, I got away with RandyWang for quite a while, and only got a single oppose for the name at RfA. Is this so much worse? :) Daveydweeb (chat/patch) 13:41, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

OK Well those who want more background and reasons are welcome to look at my talk page wher it has been discussed at some length 8-)--Light current 14:06, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


This might interest the admins: [19], [20]. And is it possible to make a sock puppet check while at it? --Striver 11:07, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I think you meant "sock" so I changed that...if you want to get a sockpuppet check, take your evidence to WP:RFCU. Otherwise, looks like NotAWeasel (talk · contribs) needs to be blocked for violating WP:NPA--MONGO 11:37, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Now blocked for 48 hours for attacks and other issues.--MONGO 11:42, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
But I think we are not very sure who is its sockpupetteer. Peace. --Nielswik(talk) 15:00, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to message the person and ask them to cool it. I think 48 hours is excessive as per our blocking policy, though, especially since neither the NPA or guidelines actually list a time other than the "cool down block" time for this, and it looks like the user just got a bit hotheaded. I'd ask that you treat users with respect perhaps. RunedChozo 17:02, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Very this edit summary along with the rest of nonsense was to be tolerated...I think not...and he should be happy I didn't make his block for even longer.--MONGO 23:13, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

PAIN case mishandling[edit]

I've been sent here by the Mediation Comitee (see Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/PAIN case mishandling), so guess it's the proper place to be.

Reference: diff of the case at its removal

Controversy to be solved: There were three contradictory resolutions by different administrators:

  • Shell Kinney warned me (in my user talk) for personal attacks for using the descriptive and relevant terms "nazi" and "racist". She did not mention the warn in the case. The warn read:
Calling another editor a nazi, regardless of whether you think it is true, is completely unacceptable. If you continue, you may be blocked for personal attacks. Please find a more civil way to discuss your concerns about the article. Shell babelfish 19:26, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Administrator blows referee whistle - This is not the place to debate ideology. Per the instructions at the top of this noticeboard, page diffs are required for reports here - not unsupported allegations or links to Wikipedia discussions. I did a search on Yahoo and did find Nazi websites that use "Thulean" and "Thule" in their titles, so - strong as the statement from Sugaar was - it appears to be fact-based and valid. There are two sides to WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA that apply to this particular discussion: first, standards of civility at Wikipedia do not depend on what ideology an editor holds; second, discourse on certain sensitive topics may require the judicious use of terms that would otherwise be eschewed as hot button and inflammatory (such as when the topic at hand actually is Nazism and racism). This noticeboard cannot mediate a content dispute. It can evaluate and take appropriate actions in response to personal attacks. DurovaCharge! 23:04, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

(bold type is mine to emphasize the contradictions with Shell Kenney's warn).

*PAIN is not a dispute resolution forum. Not to be too harsh, but we need to keep things here neat, orderly, and to a pretty narrow subject material. I'm interested in personal attacks; I'll keep an eye on this for the time being, but I'd encourage all of you to just try to settle down a bit and resolve your differences through the usual dispute resolution process instead of trying to get each other blocked. If attacks continue or escalate, please provide diffs to support any reports made here. Thanks in advance. Luna Santin 09:21, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

(a no relevance resolution).

Furthermore I've been reading WP:PA and WP:CIV (offcial policies) and neither of them seem to justify the interpretation of Shell Kenney at all. Only WP:EQ (a guideline) seems somehow to support her reasoning (but not very clearly).

Additionally I feel that her promt archive of the case without a clear resolution was also wrong.

Context: Not sure how relevant this may be. But it's surely necessary to mention that this is part of a much complex contrversy surrounding the White people article, an entry that (sadly) has been subject to constant POV attacks and vandalizing by people of clear white supremacist ideology. It was only in this context that my remarks were made and the affected user, never willing to discuss my perceptions on his motivations, started victimizing himself and wikilawyering on all this. Right now the article is under full protection.

It's also maybe convenient to notice that another user (User:LSLM) was also treted this same way by the same administrator, with even harshest warns for simmilar alleged faults (again not supported by PA or CIV policies).

Request: that the case is reviewed according to PA and CIV policies, giving a clear resolution, and that, if my point is accepted, the warn is offcially removed.

--Sugaar 11:45, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Calling someone a Nazi is a personal attack. Period. No 'ifs', nor 'buts'. "Comment on content, not on the contributor". Calling someone a Nazi is commenting on the contributor. Daniel.Bryant T · C ] 11:51, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Can you quote the relevant WP:PA paragraph that implies that? I can see it nowhere.
"Nazi" is mainly a shorthand for "neonazi", which is a real ideology, equivalent to "white supremacist" and other tags. It was fully relevant for the discussion, as after all it was about his POV modifications (POV-pushing) of the article.
I am sure that other ideologies such as conservatism, liberalism, socialism, anarchism, etc. do not have the same protection. Why this difference?
Also, just for the purpose of clarification: if "nazi" is considered a PA (what I think is wrong according to WP:PA), is it the same with "racist", "neonazi", "white supremacist", etc.? Is it the same with "conservatist", "liberal", "socialist", "communist", "anarchist",

"rightist", "leftist", etc.? Why or why not? --Sugaar 12:03, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

It makes a judgement of the individual. Any of those above tags might be a personal attack, or might not be, depending on the manner in which it was intended and in which it was taken. If that tag was used to pass judgement on the other user, it constitutes a personal attack. Daveydweeb (chat/patch) 13:35, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
It's difficult to say, specially for me who was the one making those comments. I can only say that all them were relevant to the discussion (a new user, mass-editing a page with a large history of the same kind of attacks, with clearly that POV) and, later, the "aggraviated" user came to my user talk to push the issue further. Being my reply on my own user-talk page used as main evidence in the case, if I understood correctly. It's all still there if you want to check.
The ideological matter is clearly relevant to the discussion and, informally, I was reprobated also (by the same admin) for using the terms in abstract: as descriptive of the ideology being POV-pushed. Much of the same happened to LSLM, who was severely warned, I think (none of the warns is sufficiently clear), for explaining in the dicussion page what Nazi Nordicism was and is, again relevant to the discussion. --Sugaar 14:31, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Sugaar - I don't see a conflict to resolve. You probably should have been more careful in your choice of terms, you're obviously bright enough to see that, and nobody other than yourself seems to want to pursue this - what, exactly, do you need resolving? Proto::type 14:21, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Where on WP:PA (or whatever relevant policy) says that that is wrong (I don't see it anywhere).
If a case can be archived with no clear resolution, as was this case (three contradicting ones).
If abstract description of an ideology as relevant to content dispute (as LSLM did before he was severely warned, apparently) is also a fault and why.
Thanks, --Sugaar 14:31, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Again, Sugaar, what do you want to happen? You were asked not to call anyone a Nazi (or a nazi). You were not blocked for this, you were asked, politely, not to do it again. Thulean acting like a child was not helpful either, but this is not relevant. Instead of accepting that you were wrong to call someone a nazi, or accepting that you will not from now on, you are quoting a bunch of policies. Please, you are making yourself look worse. Accept that you were not right, don't call anyone a nazi again, and move on. Proto::type 14:52, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Just to be thorough and to remove any doubt, I figured it might be prudent to cite the precise policy sections - all from WP:NPA...
  • There is no excuse for personal attacks on other contributors.
  • Do not make personal attacks anywhere in Wikipedia. Comment on content, not on the contributor.
  • Using someone's affiliations as a means of dismissing or discrediting their views — regardless of whether said affiliations are mainstream or extreme.
The primary characteristic that defines a personal attck, and thus the primary reason that "User:X is a nazi/liberal/left/commie/etc" is a personal attack, is because it is a comment on the contributor rather than on that persons contributions.
It's worth noting by the way that PAIN cases are not held on the board for debates and disputes between either users or administratrs - that's what "user talk" is for. Pain cases are typically routinely archived (or rather, removed from the page to be found only through oldid's) soon after they have been dealt with by an administrator. There was no imprper action in your case with regards to that - just standard procedure. The WP:NPA policy is pretty specific about what is and what isn't a personal attack, and so arbocom or RFC style cases are not required.
As to the three opposing admin interpretations, I don't really see that they are each mutually exclusive. All three note a problem, two of them note strong statements made by yourself, and while one of those (Durova's) wasn't a clear ruling one way or the other, Shell's was a firm ruling. From that perspective, what's happened is that al three administrators have noted a problem, two of them have gone as far as to say that your behaviour was at least marginal, and one of those has gone as far as issuing a warnig in accordance with the exact spirit and intent of WP:NPA Crimsone 14:54, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the quotes, I could not find the third one where says: Using someone's affiliations as a means of dismissing or discrediting their views — regardless of whether said affiliations are mainstream or extreme. But now I did. I was a little disappointed that nothing of this was clear in the hearing nor the resolution. But still I see how can my comments be understood as PAs. So far nobody had been clear enough.
I am concerned nevertheless that what I said in my user own talk was used to build up the case against me. I guess there's no specific rule that says otherwise but truly it makes me feel less confident about freely speaking or even engaging in communication at all with certain people. This does not favor free discussion, specially when things get hot.
As per the contraditing resolutions, I do find some fault in that: there is doubt on which one is the valid one. If one says my comments are valid (or somewhat valid), the other says the case has no relevance and the third warns me, there is a clear conflict of resolutions. I don't know how you manage this, but typically that should mean either discussion among the contradicting administrators to get a unique ruling or the lesser penalty for the alleged infractor, in this case me. Shell's ruling wasn't even in the case: only in my talk page. This is one of my concerns. Though guess I'm powerless to push it further.
I am concerned about the warn indeed. Not so much for how much can it weight against me in possible future cases, maybe against the same person or a very simmilar character, but specially because it served this user as means to campaing to drive away contributors (see WP:DE) and POV-push the article.
This is all I have to say. --Sugaar 20:03, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Pop art et al[edit]

I would like to ask administrators for help at the article Pop art. The sections about Origin of the term "pop art" and Pop art in Britain were edited by an editor, Ottex, whos main indent seems to be to establish John McHale as the main artist of pop art. This includes an attempts to change the attribution of Just What Is It that Makes Today's Homes So Different, So Appealing? from Richard Hamilton to McHale based on original resarch by McHale's son, which as far as I can see was not published by reliable, third-party published sources with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy. I and other editors have removed some of this edits per BLP concerns. Now Rory55 has posted this messages to my talk page asking for adminisrativ intervention. As his last message mentions legal actions and Ottex keeps on inserting content violating WP:BLP I also think an administrative intervention may be necessary here. The same applys to the article about John McHale (artist). Thank you. --VirtualDelight 16:28, 14 November 2006 (UTC)--

I second this. It was posted over at the BLP noticeboard last week, which is when I stubbed the "So Appealling" article after Ottex had a rather long statement regarding McHale, and later a message to editors about apparent censorship of the position. I can't find anything about this attribution issue, but I'm notoriously bad at Google, so... --badlydrawnjeff talk 16:34, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

history merges[edit]

User:Benzamin's article move methology features a creative interpretation of the the GFDL. So far I found the following, I think this is all of them:

The problem here is that according to my very favourite policy, WP:UE, the new titles are correct, so while the move method is not, I can't just revert him, instead there's a lot of admin bitchwork. --user:Qviri 04:33, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I merged the first one listed, but then I got to thinking, should these really be in English? Are they really best known to English speakers under the English translated title? Fucking Åmål for example, has an English distribution title, but it's rarely referred to as that by English speakers. (and technically there's a whole page for requesting history merges, WP:SPLICE).--W.marsh 16:46, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for pointing out SPLICE, I shall use it from now on. With regards to titles, this is the first time I heard the English titles (maybe with the exception of Mr. Wołodyjowski). Further, a lot of these, especially by Bareja, feature lots of references that anyone not well-immersed in the Polish culture wouldn't get (thus wouldn't find the movie funny and watch it in the first place...), and someone who is immersed would use the Polish title. I'm obviously biased here as a Pole.
I think that we should do a merge (on pages needing one, that is; Man - Woman Wanted obviously doesn't) and then let the naming get decided by a WP:RM. --user:Qviri 18:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Warning removal[edit]

User:Elysianfields is repeatedly removing warnings from his talk page. I reverted him, and he switched it back. Someone else reverted him, and he left a mildly rude message on my userpage. I think I should just let it drop so as not to be a bully, but if there's some standard way of dealing with this, I don't know about it. Thought I'd mention it here even though my suspicion is that nothing needs to be done. --Masamage 22:31, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Your suspicion is correct. Nothing needs to be done. If he vandalizes Wikipedia, warn him. If he is nothing but a vandal account, he will surely be blocked eventually. semper fiMoe 23:02, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

User page and VfD pasted on article talk page[edit]

I could be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure that pasting user pages on the talk pages of articles is a no-no. A user placed an advertisement for his religious group on the Talk:Ebionites page. Directly, below this, there is a VfD for an article about the same group that was speedily deleted and page protected. The user is taking the opportunity to protest the deletion, which is ok, but we have procedures to do this, rather than using another article to make your point. Please remove all this stuff so that we can stick to topics relevant to the current article. Thanks. Ovadyah 23:15, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Removed. It was a WP:POINT action to start with; throw in the "complete with ... one admin that may had been duped by Ovadyah", and the fact that it is not actively discussing the article in question (as stated at the top: "This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Ebionites article"), and it was a sitting duck for removal. Daniel.Bryant T · C ] 23:22, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


User:Silentbob4477 has once again given himself Barnstars. (Revision as of 2006-11-11T13:16:15) one he give himself, and the other is a copy paste with another signature. The is the second time he has done this. He also has a past history of contributing to the Percy "Nobby" Norton/hoax issue Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Percy Nobby Norton - which he perpetuates on his user page. He did not sign his post there - but it says

This article was deleted and recreated on Nov 2 with the intention of providing a completely factual account of Norton's life. I am asking Starblind to give me 1 hour of my life back after he so blatantly deleted this article. STARBLIND YOU ARE AN ELITIST AUTOCRAT WHO TAKES PLEASURE FROM CRUSHING THE DREAMS OF THE WORKING CLASS WHO WILL ONE DAY RISE UP AGAINST YOU. YOU AUTHORITARIAN PIG-DOG. You have yet failed to provide a decent response explaining why this article was deleted again. I assure you, I will recreate this article under differnet names every week for the next year on every different IP adress I have access to. There is no limit to how much I will write and I warn you, a LOT of spare time has come across me and I will find it enjoyable to torment you motherfuckers.

Do we really ne4ed this? --ArmadilloFromHell 08:41, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

Looking at that AFD, it would also appear that there is a lot of, either, sockpuppetry or meatpuppetry going on also - with significant numbers of new editors only having posted to that AFD.-Localzuk(talk) 14:02, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I noticed that also, if I knew how and had the time, I guess I could request a trace, it almost certainly would show something. --ArmadilloFromHell 18:23, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Meh. I considered deleting the hoax from his User page, but I guess it does no harm. Forging other people's sigs isn't appropriate, though. User:Zoe|(talk) 20:17, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't care about barnstars, but I don't like his using wikipedia as a free web host for perpetuating the hoax. I've removed it from the user page on those grounds. Friday (talk) 20:28, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

I took a tour through is contribs, and I see no redeeming qualities in this user. Apart from the edits to that deleted article, about 90% of his edits are to his userpage, and a good portion of the remainder is worthless. We keep him around why? --Golbez 10:36, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

He has had a short term block for vandalism, but it should be permanent, as far as sockpuppets, note Enknowed and these two related histories [37] and [38] --ArmadilloFromHell 15:20, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

  • I filed a RFCU for Silentbob4477 and Enknowed. Hopefully, that'll show what's what. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 15:55, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
I blocked him earlier today for his vandalism to User:Ryulong (he marked it for speedy deletion as nonsense -- at the very best a strong WP:POINT violatoin). I support a community ban here -- anyone else? Mangojuicetalk 16:34, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
I've tried hard to assume good faith with this user, even when he cloned my user page, complete with barnstars and the admin template. But looking at the trouble he's caused versus the actual contributions he's made (nil as far as I can see), I've got to agree now with Mangojuice. --Guinnog 16:42, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Silentbob4477 came back as Likely. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 13:52, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Given that Silentbob has been indef-blocked, could someone drop a block on Enknowed as well? I'd do it, but I don't have The Button. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 15:14, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Done. For what it's worth I should have some of the blame for these recent shenanigans: I cleaned out the Nobby/Briefs sock drawer last week, and I forgot all about these two. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 16:05, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Joining the party totally late here, but I think the OP shouldn't have begun the post with something about self awarding barnstars. It seems that this user's other activities are way more serious than self awarding barnstars. That offense is pretty minor compared to forging sigs and WP:POINT violating edits. ~ crazytales-My talk--Your talk- 00:31, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

User:James James[edit]

Hi, I noticed that [[User:James James]] had been renamed to User:Rose Garden at around February. There's a new User:James James who joined Wikipedia in August, who's now vandalising Wikipedia.

I posted about him at WP:HD and was told that it might be worth mentioning here. Could there be a problem with User:James James, related to hijacking? --Kjoonlee 15:03, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, some of User:Rose_Garden's signatures on talk pages still link to User:James_James, so I'm a bit worried. --Kjoonlee 15:16, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
For the lack of any useful edits, I've gone ahead an blocked the new James James and restored the user and talk page redirects to User:Rose Garden. Thanks, Kjoonlee. ×Meegs 19:20, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Note: This is why it's always a good idea to, after a username change, re-create the old account name to prevent impersonation. ~ crazytales-My talk--Your talk- 00:38, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Memphis Improvisational Theatre[edit]

Memphis Improvisational Theatre (discussion|history|protect|delete|undelete|logs|links)

I've nominated this one for deletion (AFD here). Looks like it needs to be deleted due to total lack of third-party sources. In the meantime, there's been an ongoing revert war on the article and sniping back and forth on the Talk Page and editors' Talk pages. Should somebody address this, or should we just wait for the AFD to conclude? Fan-1967 16:23, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Warn the users with civility and NPA warnings. Report the reverters at WP:AN3RR. ~ crazytales-My talk--Your talk- 00:43, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


Where shall we start with the editor and his short but eventful career -

Maybe his charming and pleasant userpage. Here he is again making useful comments to users in disputes with other editors.

But don't worry it's not all userspace stuff, here he is trying to speedy delete a stub about a City because it's a waste of space, restoring vandalism in the process and then trying to recreate a article that was deleted yesterday.

Hey but he did create an article, well by create I mean straight copy it from the internet - but don't worry it's ok because I should get a life

--Charlesknight 19:12, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

User has now had his earlier indefinite block reinstated due to continued personal attacks despite warnings. Gwernol 20:48, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Evading his block here --Charlesknight 09:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Article for Speedy Keep[edit]

Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Beit_Hanoun_November_2006_incident; users Burgas00 and Striver (to name just two of them) have been trying to POV this article. When they failed shortly after its creation, user Striver created a POV fork at Israeli_shelling_of_Beit_Hanoun which has been up for deletion. Burgas00 has now created a bad faith AFD trying to get the original article deleted in order to protect his friend's blatant POV fork. Can we get an admin to speedy keep please? RunedChozo 22:33, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't think so. As an uninvolved party (with no POV on any Middle East conflicts whatsoever), I find edits such as [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] [44] [45] [46] [47] to be "canvassing", and an attempt to create a possibly-false sense of concensus. Let some more opinions from those who weren't solicited come in. Daniel.Bryant T · C ] 22:54, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Regardless, forking is not the answer. Speedy kept, see my closing statement for details. El_C 23:00, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Pointing out an abuse of the process is not "canvassing." RunedChozo 23:02, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
But In the case of a re-consideration of a previous debate (such as a "no consensus" result on an AFD or CFD), it is similarly unacceptable to send mass talk messages to editors that expressed only a particular viewpoint on the previous debate, such as only "Keep" voters or only "Delete" voters is. That's what you did, judging by the other AfD and the opinions of those who you spammed had. Daniel.Bryant T · C ] 23:05, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
BUT, this was not a "re-consideration of a previous debate", this was a bad-faith nomination by someone who didn't like that his friend's POV fork was up for deletion and nominated the original for deletion out of spite. RunedChozo 23:08, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
It's still canvassing. However, the debate was closed (I'm still seeing what other people on IRC think of the close, some are indicating DRV, although I'm not too sure I want to), so lets just move on. Daniel.Bryant T · C ] 23:12, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
As one of the users contacted, I was otherwise uninvolved other than a recent vote on the PoV fork. However, I could not fault the reasoning and it was a bad faith nomination, as the admins have agreed.--Rosicrucian 00:10, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Needless to say, the more people dispute the close on IRC, the more likely the decision was correct! ;) /IRC wave El_C 08:00, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Too true! That's why I'm letting it slide - because I now agree with the close. I apologise for my hasty conclusions, which were misguided (as I've found out from some background reading). Daniel.Bryant T · C ] 08:02, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
  • "I'm still seeing what other people on IRC think of the close" is that where these things are now decided? Giano 08:05, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
No. I was just seeing if my view of the incident was marginalised, before I wentto DRV. Thankfully, I realised it was a misguided view, and so I didn't make a fool of myself by sending it to DRV. In the end, it would have been the community who decided what to do with the article; my intention was to see if there was just cause to send it through that process. Daniel.Bryant T · C ] 08:14, 15 November 2006 (UTC) (talk · contribs · WHOIS)/ (talk · contribs · WHOIS)[edit]

This user vandalized Micropachycephalosaurus, and then from another IP vandalized it again three minutes later, in the hopes the first vandalism wouldn't be caught. I'm normally quite lenient with blocks, and do normally start out very small (24 hours), but since this IP has never been used before to edit Wikipedia it doesn't appear a long block will do much harm, and may do some good. Review appreciated. Firsfron of Ronchester 02:32, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I think a month on each is excessive. Both the edits were obvious vandalism - they would only not be caught if the reverter wasn't paying attention. (I've seen vandals make a vandalistic edit, then make a minor non-vandal edit to hide it from the 'last diff' link, but that wasn't the case here). The IPs could be dynamic - as those were the only edits, I think the blocks should be shortened to ~24 hours. They can be lengthened if the vandalism is resumed. --Sam Blanning(talk) 02:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Done, and thanks for the advice. Firsfron of Ronchester 02:56, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Actually, 24.91 looks like an open proxy or zombie per [48] so I indef'ed it. It was well-planned vandalism. The other one looks like its probably ok, although it does not have an RDNS entry, which makes me suspicious. Thatcher131 03:38, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
On second thought, it looks like the blacklists have entire Comcast ranges because Comcast doesn't seem to give a damn about its customers spamming, but nothing indicates this particular IP is an open proxy. Reset to 24 hours. Thatcher131 03:44, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Either way, I'll be watching for mischief from these two. Thanks. Firsfron of Ronchester 03:48, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Google hits must not be taken as a yardstick in Asian related AfD's[edit]

Google hits must not be taken as a yardstick in Asian related AfD's. Newspapers of Vernacular Languages may have millions of readership. For example, in India every state has its own language. There are more than 20 widely speaking native languages in India. But the news reports from the newspapers of such languages are not available in google search.Take the case of Malayala Manorama Newspaper. Currently this Malayalam language newspaper has a readership of over 9 million, with a circulation base of over 1.4 million copies according to Audit Beureu of Circulations. Manorama is one of the India's largest selling and most widely read news paper. There are more than 50 such newspapers in India. News reports from such dailies are not available in google eventhough it have millions of readership. But news reports from English dailies with 1000 or 2000 copies are available in google search. It is really misleading...Isn't it...? In this context of notability tests based on google hits may be a worthless, foolish effort. In such circumstances we must consider the words of native wikipedians with more importance. Nileena joseph (Talk|Contribs) 05:39, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

With all due respect, may I ask how this "requires administrator intervention"? I think it'd be better suited to WP:VP, more specifically WP:VPP, rather than here. Daniel.Bryant T · C ] 05:40, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/FYI ??? WAS 4.250 06:14, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
It's been taken there. --Sam Blanning(talk) 10:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Someone wants to move on this quickly (Bogus looking RFC)[edit]

Straight forward trolling I think. Looks to be a repeat of that nonsense RFC that was started on Sarah Ewart last week,. --Charlesknight 11:16, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Yeah looks to be a sockpuppet express - history has two editors - both new users, both just making edits to that RFC. --Charlesknight 11:17, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I have deleted. Someone else seems to have blocked the users and rolled back the changes to the RFC page. Morwen - Talk 11:22, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Celebrity username[edit]

There is an editor whose username is Escriva, the name of Opus Dei's founder. Lafem 03:54, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Nobody else has that surname? Anywhere? - CHAIRBOY () 04:10, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

If it's just "Escriva" it's probably fair game.--Rosicrucian 04:32, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't see any possibility of confusing the editor with Josemaría Escrivá de Balaguer. --Sam Blanning(talk) 04:36, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I have not seen any User:Bush nor User:Blair. Anyway, I leave it to your good judgement. Lafem 10:20, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
There is User:Arbustoo; "arbusto" is "bush" in Spanish. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 14:31, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
An imposter! Oh noes!! --Masamage 19:05, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

political agenda[edit]

User talk:Molobo he uses his discussions site for political statements of dubious nature. like germans and russians formning anti-polish alliances, or alleged insults against poles by the city of new york. I cant really imagine that political activism was the intention of the user pages--Tresckow 13:40, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

User:Marudubshinki and bots again[edit]

User:Trubbles and User:Drubbles have both appeared, claiming to be bots operated by User:Marudubshinki. I indeffed one and User:Gwernol the other. I left a message on Maru's talk page; if I remember correctly, he got into trouble before for running unauthorised bots. I wondered if this was someone trying to get him into more trouble? His user page claims that he has left the project and he has made no edits under that account for a month. I'd be grateful for some second opinions on the matter. Thanks. --Guinnog 13:56, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Well done on blocking Trubbles. Gwernol's just blocked the other. I wouldn't worry if they belonged to someone. They are just spammers, be them bots or not. -- Szvest ····> Wiki Me Up ® 14:05, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Marudubshinki Maru was desyopped and may be blocked for using bots. However, Maru's problem was repeatedly running unapproved bots and self-unblocking; his bot edits were generally useful (interwiki links, fixing redirects, etc). In fact, there have been one or two anonymous bots since he "left" that I think were him. But this looks like someone flying a false flag. Thatcher131 14:16, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree with Thatcher on this, looking back at Maru's history it doesn't seem like his pattern of bot behavior. These accounts were outright spammers, I'm not even convinced they were bots. Probably some spammer out to try and hide his tracks and failing, as they usually do. We should all probably stay alert for more in the next few days. Gwernol 14:19, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Or it could be some troll who didn't get the memo trying to create a theme, like those "automated bot run by Jason Gastrich" vandals a while ago. --Sam Blanning(talk) 14:23, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't think these accounts have anything to do with Marudubshinki other than trying to get him in trouble joe job style, and have denied their unblock requests and protected their talk pages. I think it is just some random troll, nothing to see here, move along. Kusma (討論) 14:31, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

User:MawiWorld and User:KarotWorld[edit]

User:MawiWorld was blocked a bit ago. User:KarotWorld began posting very similar content shortly thereafter. Suggest a possible IP block might be in order. Waitak 13:57, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Same fate for the second! Szvest ····> Wiki Me Up ® 14:08, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
We can't do direct blocks on accounts' IPs because only checkuser can find them out, and that would only be justified if the vandalism became much more difficult to deal with. There's still the autoblocker but it's not 100% dependable. --Sam Blanning(talk) 14:09, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


Anon user is going around blanking talk pages, removing unsorced info, and generally being a pain on Detroit related articles edit history. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Isotope23 (talkcontribs) 14:27, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Blanking talk pages is annoying, but why not warn him before bringing him here? And removing unsourced info is a good thing. --Sam Blanning(talk) 14:37, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Ha, Sorry that should have said "sourced" info... yes, removing unsourced info isn't much of a problem is it.
I've run into this person before (I'm presuming it is User:Mitchellandness1 editing from his IP based on the edits and the IP address) and a warning isn't going to do any good. He vacillates between fairly useful edits and complete POV or template removal edits. Regardless, he appears to be done for the day, so it appears no action is required.--Isotope23 15:33, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Second opinion on matter[edit]

Recently a friend of mine got banned by User:Crzrussian. The admin in question claimed that my friend had been trolling, and thus banned Uncle Mart (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) his account, his 2nd account, and his IP indefinately. He later went on to vandalize his User page User:Uncle Mart removing any content he had, and on the talk page of Uncle Marts profile Crzrussian claims that Uncle Mart had deleted several entries from talk pages, where the fact is he only removed entries on his own talk page. When i asked the Crzrussian to elaborate on the matter at his talk page, he refused which brings me here. (Cloud02 16:47, 15 November 2006 (UTC))

Regardless of what the first account may or may not have done, sockpuppetry to avoid a block is unnaceptable, and does not show good faith in the least. --InShaneee 16:53, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Assuming the block was in order, then marking the page User:Uncle Mart with that tag standard practice, and not vandalism. edits like this are unhelpful. I have been trying to find which article it was which was deleted to cause this in the first place - can you tell me where it was created? Further, your "friend" would do well to read Wikipedia:Conflicts of interest and Wikipedia:Autobiography. Morwen - Talk 16:57, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Uncle mart (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). See also personal attacks on talk (deleted of course). - crz crztalk 17:02, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
FYI, this user has already addressed queries to several administrators and to the unblock list. - crz crztalk 17:04, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Judging from the abuse that had been placed on Talk:Uncle mart, I think a block was entirely in order. If User:Uncle Mart wishes to be unblocked, then I feel that an apology would be necessary first. I shall be happy to unprotect his talk page such that this can happen. If User:Uncle Mart wishes there to be an article about him, he could provide references to music press articles about him, and other people could write one. Morwen - Talk 17:07, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Uncle Mart must also understand and be prepared to abide by policies including verifiability and autobiography is bad and the Music notability guidelines. Thatcher131 17:14, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I categorically oppose unblocking uncle mart, apology or not. I received quite a bit of trolling from this person and his various identities. - crz crztalk 18:18, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

This just got bought to my attention so I suppose I should have a quick say in the matter... Firstly the original incedent was over me creating a page, the page was marked for deletion and things went silly, I should have at this point backed down and respected the original wiki admins word and I admit this was a mistake on my part, I would like to apologise to the admins I was rude to over this, im not going to make excuses as that doesnt excuse my behavior, after some time I decided that (reluctantly) I would accept the decision (and will continue to do so, the question of me making a page is no longer the issue and when Crzrussian decided to get involved this dispute was LONG over with). the next thing I know is that my talk page was deleted and replaced with an older version by Crzrussian, I went to his talk page and explained this and asked him to not edit MY talk page and said something along the lines of "this has been sorted out now", the next thing I know is that im banned, not only by account but by IP. Obviously this was unfair as I never actually broke any rules whatsoever. I then thought I should create a new account and speak to another wiki admin about this unfair treatment, I made a new account, made a user page and before I even had the chance to contact anyone Crzrussian had taken his vendetta to new extremes and decided to use the "sock puppet" excuse, despite me having edited any other articles than my own user page. Now I dont know what "trolling" he's talking about to be honest, because the orginal dispute with the other admins had finished long before he got involved, perhaps he thinks he has more authority than other admins and that they handled me badly, well he was very off the mark, despite my original bad behavior I can say the original admins were friendly from the start, reasonable and did everything they could to explain it while being fair and neutral, CrzRussian on the other hand.....

Suffice to say that im not really interested in getting my account back but I would like the pages he locked deleted as these contain my real name and despite the saying "all publicity is good publicity" I would rather not have my real name posted here as I also have an alias and an artist name, which I would not like connections to be made between.

I would also like to request that Crzrussian be removed from being a wiki admin as he clearly cannot perform the duties that the other admins are, he has the rouge thing on his page and after looking on google it appears that the man is pretty hated in general, being hated is one thing but when you're hated because you cant do a simple job properly will cause problems for wiki (its lucky he decided to attack me as I dont consider defacing pages to be smart or clever like he does, but there are plenty of people out there that im sure he will annoy in the future that will take their anger out on wiki, which is not good for anyone). Im happy as the situation stands in my area, I dont need my account back but I would like to apologise to the original admins for my bad behaviour, I was out of line and I admit it, however Crzrussian gets no apology as I've got nothing to apologise for. Its up to you guys what you want to do now because personally, I dont really care, I'll still use wiki, I'll still donate to articles but only on the condition that Crzrussian doesnt harrass me like he has in the last two days. Im afraid he is a detriment to the site and I think its pretty clear to see that from his talkpage, he is also a perfect example of someone who abuses the little power he has in life. Thanks to the other admins, and the people who came to my defence in this, I appreciate it very much, however this is my last words on the subject, I dont hold wiki responsible for his behavior and still view wiki as one of the neatest things to happen on the internet, but I hope that wiki can see that people like Crzrussian only ruin this great site. One other thing I thought I should mention is that crz banning every single IP I happen to use doesnt affect me at all, my IP changes very fequently, this is something I cant help and is not to avoid bans, but by dong this he is stopping many potential wikipedians from using the site just because of some silly childish vendetta he has against me. Anyway, thats my say on the matter and im sure its in good hands providing no more of my posts I make go missing or change. Martin Tibbs 19:01, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Just want to add something quickly... "I categorically oppose unblocking uncle mart, apology or not. I received quite a bit of trolling from this person and his various identities." I dont want unbanning for one, and thinking you would get an apology is pretty laughable im afraid, but you're welcome to keep hoping. My other point about the Various identities, hmmmmm, well you see if you check the account that you banned you'll see it only edited its own userpage, and nothing else so I have no idea where you get this various personalities from, I think you probably attatch more importance to yourself than you deserve, I started an account after and you banned it, you saying you got abuse from me is laughable as it simply didnt happen, but to be honest I wouldnt expect something truthful to come from you anyway, its clear that you saw the situation had ended and I wasnt banned, and yet you decided to deface my talk page to try and provoke me into breaking a rule so you had a reason to ban me, you couldnt manage that so you banned me anyway. so once again, im not requesting an unblock, im not requesting my pages unlocked, im just requesting and stating that you do a terrible "job" here and wiki would be better off without you. Peace out. btw, when replying to me, try to remember I wont be reading this as I have more important things to do, thats not meant as a jab but you have wasted quite alot of my time already and I dont have anymore for you. 19:51, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

User refuses to discuss[edit]

User Encyclopaedia Editing Dude contiuously removes links to the Soviet archives, declassified in early 1990s from Josef Stalin, insterting links to an eyewitness interview made by BBC and other biased and/or non-reliable sources. He refuses to talk and removes my comments from his talk page [49]. He also said that he will break any rules to restore his version. I requested RFC on this topic and in two weeks received only one comment (in favor of my version). Please do something to make the user to discuss his changes.--Nixer 17:13, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

You say to someone "please stop adding Nazi propaganda" and expect them to discuss matters with you? Can I suggest you merge your version into his rather than revert again. It is silly to flip between A and B when we should be at F or possibly J. Morwen - Talk 17:23, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
He could do it with mine, but he deleted my sources. And if I do merge, he will revert again. But this outcome will be acceptable if possible (although his sources do not meet the WP:RS criteria.--Nixer 17:33, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I haven't looked into the specifics of the issue and the sources: personally I'd try that in an editing dispute to determine the precise sticking point - from the outside this doesn't look at all clear cut atm, sorry. Morwen - Talk 17:38, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Inserting Nazi propaganda does not make article about Hitler NPOV, it makes disgrace to Wiki. Insterting Stalinist propaganda does make article about Stalin, NPOV it makes it disgrace to Wiki. Whitewashing Stalin and presenting Stalin's crimes as interest free loan giveaway is pure evil.//Encyclopaedia Editing Dude 18:10, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Do you call archival sources declassified in 1990s "stalinist propaganda"? Just the opposite: your BBC interviws with not known by anybody pesons (and probably, Nazi-supporters) is just propaganda. Besides, anecdotic evidence is clearly prohibited by WP:RS.--Nixer 18:17, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Dispute resolution: This page is not part of our Dispute Resolution process.

This is not the Wikipedia complaints department. If you came here to complain about the actions of a user or administrator, or if your problem is a content issue and does not need the attention of people with administrator access, then please follow the steps in dispute resolution. These include: mediation, requests for comment, and as a last resort requests for arbitration.

Vandalizing personal page & Death threat issued to Tamilians and WP:NCSLC members[edit]

A vandal who has vandalized my page twice with personal attack phrases and also other pages many times has been caught. Poor guy he forgot to turn off his signature script and the user is none other than a registered user who previously vandalised the Velupillai Prabhakaran page - SnowolfD4. Note the ones below:

1). Please check this topic " Demalu, we want you all dead. Your and your NCSLC bull. Need some good 'ole lynch. --snowolfD4( talk / @ )". He has vandalized my userpage and talk page with foul language and racist remarks. He had to do two changes, one with his signature and the other with his signature removed and both of them from this IP He is caught redhanded trying to vandalize pages with his signature turned on by mistake.

2). His post in my talk page which is clearly personal attack/vandalism

3). FYI, the user has already been blocked thrice in Wikipedia. He has resorted to using abusive language and 'Demalu' means 'Tamilians' and he basically wants all 'F** Tamilians to die, which quite evidently is a bad racist remark and also my WP:NCSLC project closed, which goes completely against Wiki policies.

4). Please notice that the same IP/User has involved in anonymous IP Edits Killing Wiki editors, abusive language and blanking out in another page and also killing of all Tamilians in another usepage as evident from his contributions page

I kindly request you to step in and take stern action so that it can be avoided in the future. Thanks, and expecting your prompt action to maintain Wikipedia norms. If he is continuing even after three warnings including a 24-hour block, I think he is really going berserk. Thanks Sudharsansn (talk  contribs) 17:27, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Note - Blocked indef by Naconkantari. -- Szvest ····> Wiki Me Up ® 17:41, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your help. I am not sure if the IP has been blocked or the user as the case seems to be the user masking his IP and mistakenly posting his signature. Can someone please help me with the Checkuser procedure? Thanks Sudharsansn (talk  contribs) 17:48, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I have done a checkuser procedure I don't know if I have done the right thing. I kindly request an admin to help me with this procedure or possibly figure out the relationship between the signature left on my userpage by the user and the IPs he has used. Thanks and looking forward to this mess being cleaned up soon. Sudharsansn (talk  contribs) 18:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Personal attacks in edit summaries[edit]

I don't know if it's possible or not, but if so, indef banned user Won Dong Bon's edit summaries (Won Dong Bon (talk · contribs)) should be removed from edit histories. Thanks. Deli nk 18:33, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Send an e-mail request to WP:RFO. Admins could do it but it would be a huge task. Should be simple for oversight. Thatcher131 18:42, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm taking care of it, as well as Wang sang (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log), Messier Mark (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log), Put Rick Tocchet Hall of Fame (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log), Air Canada (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log), and Ttubdeah (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log). Gamaliel 18:59, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Found another one, Eavis & Butthead (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log). This might take a while. Gamaliel 19:02, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Lmks (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) and Dodnuck (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log). Might need some help here. Gamaliel 19:04, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Still need cleaning: Ttubdeah (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log), Lmks (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log), SlapshotGoal (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log), and Dodnuck (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log). Gamaliel 19:31, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I am working on Ttubdeah (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) Tizio 19:56, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Done. Tizio 20:29, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Fakir005 request for Adminstrators' Intervention against Rampant spamming of Wikipedia Content by Vendors' themselves[edit]

Zedo page has a note stating that this Zedo description looks like an advertisement and needs editing. One user DoGooderjohnnyD stated in its discussion page on October 6 that he has notified zedo that this page needs correction because it is their product and they know it best how to edit it. I take the liberty of reproducing the DoGooderJohnnyD statement below:

I notified Zedo so that they can correct this article. I'm sure they could do a much better job than I could of describing their products and services. -/s/ -User:DoGooderJohnnyD|DoGooderJohnnyD 21:24, 6 October 2006

This is obviously a violation of Wikipedia policy of independence of the wikipedia content. The vendor himself can't be relied upon to provide an independent and correct description of content describing itself.

I've reviewed the following Wikipedia Content Technology-Internet-Adserving and find that the whole section is completely in correct. There is no mention of the fact that the ad serving companies place the ads of their clients on the web pages with the permission of the the publishers of the web pages and they share the revenues produced when the visitors to the webpages click on those ads with the publishers of the web pages. I edited the content of adserving to reflect the point. DoGooderJphnny called it defacement and reverted it. Further he has provided a list of companies that he calls ad serving companies. All these compnies can't be verified as Ad serving Companies except by the statements made by these companies. Indeed the search engines (Yahoo, Google, AOL, Iwon) call all these companies as Adwares, Trojan Horses that invade the web sites and instal their software without the permission of the publishers of the websites. For example see the keywords zedo-adware, powered by zedo, remove zedo, zedo trojan horse and so on.

All these companies are doing tremendous damage to the reputation of Wikipedia to promote themselves in search engines. For example Zedo has gotten itself listed together with Wikipedia under the Keyword Zedo-Wikipedia (adserver).

I do believe this matter deserves Adminstrator attention and intervention fakir005 21:42, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

He made that comment on October 6. Looking at the history of ZEDO (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), there doesn't appear to be any intervention by IPs or "new" Wikipedia users, so I fail to see what exactly is "deserving of admin attention and intervention." This seems like more a content dispute ... unless you can cite any questionable edits on this or any other page. -- moe.RON Let's talk | done 22:05, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Sockpuppetry at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of famous Jats[edit]

On a request, I ran a check on some of the suspiciously new users in this discussion. At least three of the users who commented there werealmost certainly the same person: Pethj (talk · contribs), Vickop (talk · contribs), and Sbei78 (talk · contribs). I hope an another admin can look into this. This is an old AfD, but it may be worth rerunning as well. There are other related AfDs that soe of these accounts commented on, and there may be more sock discoveries when I go over those. Dmcdevit·t 23:40, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Removal of my comments from the village pump[edit]

I need help on this. I don't understand what I did wrong. User:Charlesknight removed my comments on the policy section of the village pump. I was trying to make a point that either an article that violated policy should be deleted or policy should be rewritten to reflect actual practice. Mr Spunky Toffee 01:39, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I don't see where you have discussed this with the User in question before coming here. User:Zoe|(talk) 03:03, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
He removed your comments because they looked to be vote soliciting at the pump. Direct solicitation, while I don't know of a policy against it, is often frowned upon. -Patstuart(talk)(contribs) 07:45, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
WP:SPAM#Canvassing. Daniel.Bryant T · C ] 07:53, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
em... I haven't removed any comments... --Charlesknight 09:05, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
It looks like I'm the actual culprit, as Charles points out above. I removed the section because it was primarily a solicitation for an AfD vote, and not a policy discussion at all, and thus irrelevant to the policy village pump page. Per Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines, "Irrelevant discussions are subject to removal." Daniel Bryant's link above is also relevant. -- SCZenz 09:49, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
In WIki terms, what is vote soliciting? For example, were I to go to a project talk page and tell them that a particular article under their banner was being nominated for deletion, and made a case against it being removed, would that be soliciting? perfectblue 11:56, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Another celebrity username[edit]

User:MelanieSmith is vandalizing Melanie Smith. Can someone do whatever is appropriate here? (block, or WP:AGF and confirm that this user is not the melanie smith.) --nkayesmith 04:53, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Should there be a notice on this user's page saying that this user is not the Melanie Smith of Melanie Smith? Or not? --nkayesmith 06:07, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
This person appears to be genuinely confused, I think the recent note posted on their talk page ought to be sufficient. Since Smith is the most common family name in the United States (according to us ;-)) I don't think a username block is warranted, and continue to assume good faith until there is reason to do otherwise. Can't sleep, clown will eat me 09:49, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
WP:U#Inappropriate_usernames specifically includes "Names of well-known living or recently deceased people". As such, I think this should be a block, with permission to change to another name if she's so inclined, or permission to keep it if she's willing to verify her identity. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 14:33, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I was called the fifth Beatle, baby. Bring back the Midnight Special!Billy Preston 22:53, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't think that the Melanie Smith Melanie is notable enough to invoke the well-known real person clause, but the MelanieSmith (talk · contribs) user is sure being disruptive, whoever they are. Georgewilliamherbert 00:45, 16 November 2006 (UTC)


Miltopia (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) is an ED trolling account...editor has been stalking my edits and making comments for sometime now. On his fifth edit, in response to a comment left by User:Guinnog on User talk:Alexjohnc3 regarding that I didn't need to hear anymore about encyclopedia dramatica, Miltopia responds, "Yeah, it'll just make him go apeshit again.". Followed that up here, "Serious business" is a popular theme on encyclopedia dramatica. Let's not be going around allowing wikistalking to go unpunished. This editor showed up, out of the blue on an article I have been working on at Dysgenics [50], then soon comes to an article I just got through creating [51] and well, look at the other stuff, like [52], claims he is trying to avoid me, completely out of the blue comment here, [53], [54], [55]. I blocked this editor indefinitely and for good reasons. My block was overturned by User:Gentgeen without one word beforehand to me asking why I did the block. I can understand a shortening of the block, but when admins are going around wheel warring with each other over whether it is sound to block an obvious trolling account, then this place is going down the tubes! Stop reverting each others actions! At least have the assumption of good faith that, just maybe, it would be both courteous and professional, to inquire why an admin did something. See: [56]--MONGO 10:29, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Along the same lines of what I mentioned at User talk:Miltopia, I for one am not yet convinced that the user should be summarily and indefinitely blocked, essentially without review, because the same person is victim, judge, and executioner. I do apologize for having unblocked without first discussing it with you, MONGO; if it's any consolation, there was a lengthy discussion on IRC involving a number of people, and a very speedy request for checkuser was put through to help look into matters. I am not yet convinced that this user is a simple, blatant troll, and so more than anything, I just want a few more eyes to look at this. If consensus is that I should not have unblocked, or if this user continues to do anything even resembling stalking MONGO, I'll happily apologize and recant. Luna Santin 10:41, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
You didn't rollback my block. Folks around here need to look at the diffs. He's never encountered User:Konstable before, but is now recommending desysopping over at arbcom....?[57]--MONGO 10:47, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
His current userpage is linking all junk that goes to the Wikipedia:Sandbox onto his userpage due to his misuse of the template [58].--MONGO 11:26, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
This is yet another reason why admin business should be done on-Wiki, rather than on IRC. -Hit bull, win steak(Moo!) 14:38, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

The account looks quite fishy to me — not at all like a genuine newbie. He registered in July and made one edit, but the account really came to life on 30 October. So, for the purpose of Wikipedia experience, it's two weeks old. Yet he's taking part in deletion reviews, AfDs, and even an arbitration case that he is not personally involved in — and is doing so with extraordinary confidence. Complaining about being stalked while following his alleged "stalker" around and showing up on articles he has edited does not add to his credibility. Also, his edit to his own talk page on 7 November seems to be an simply a way of "getting round" the prohibition on linking to a website that attacks Wikipedians. AnnH 13:13, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I've just come across this user while on speedy deletion patrol, and I'm amazed by the amount of flak he/she's getting just because he happens to edit a website critical of wikipedia. Mongo, although I've often (quite rightly) been criticised for biting, I'm astounded by the way you're treating this, and other, users. Looking at the diffs you provide, I see you've made a threat of blocking a user who tried to defend him, just because he linked to the "don't be a dick" Meta page? You've then been incredibly rude to both Gentgeen and Luna when they didn't agree with your arbitrary block. I'm sorry, but although Miltopia does look slightly fishy, your actions are blatantly agressive. yandman 13:42, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the support and I'll remember it.--MONGO 14:08, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
And now you're threatening me? However much your page on ED annoys you, you really shouldn't let it cloud your judgement. yandman 14:42, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I did not threaten you. I don't care about what some little children write about MONGO on that other website...they can write whatever their little adolescent minds desire. What I do care about is when an one of them comes here to stalk my edits and activities for the sake of harassment. Get a clue.--MONGO 14:50, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Civility --CBD 12:14, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I assume the user has been informed that his unblock is conditional on active attempts to avoid MONGO at all costs, correct? JBKramer 14:01, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Not to my knowledge...Admins shouldn't be reverting other admin actions on a whim...Geenteen didn't bother to say a word to me until after he did the unblock. It rarely happens to me, but I am sick and tired of watching admins going around reverting other admin actions.--MONGO 14:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
That seems a common sense condition, and I've just now notified Miltopia of it. Being a common sense condition, I don't think it quite applies indefinitely -- should they happen to run into each other a month or two from now, say, and play nice with each other, I don't really think there's a problem. But over the next few days, especially, the more distance between them, probably the better. Luna Santin 15:46, 15 November 2006 (UTC)


Not gonna get into this, 'taint my style, but I'm not at all a wiki newbie. Recent changes are kinda my thing. And I'm familiar with Wikipedia, it comes up at ED. Plus a friend of mine got banned :-( Anyway, my edits aren't problematic so I won't be sticking around this thread, y'all can choose to calm down now if you wish, but if anyone has any specific questions they can go to my talk page. Sayonara, Miltopia 14:10, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Should we treat this as an acknoledgement that you understand your unblock is conditional on your active attempts to avoid MNOGO? JBKramer 14:14, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
If he resumes what he was last up to when he started messing around, I'll block him's that simple. The trolls can do whatever they want on that childrens website, but I won't put up with it here for one minute.--MONGO 14:40, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I have to agree with MONGO that admins shouldn't undo the actions of other admins without the courtesy of letting them know on their Talk pages, and, ideally, asking if it's okay first. If they don't get permission, and still feel they need to undo the action, then go ahead, though warily, but please let the original admin know. I'm thinking about writing this up as part of Wikipedia:Wheel warring. User:Zoe|(talk) 00:34, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Copyright issue[edit]

Welcome to the Hellmouth (Buffy episode) is an article presently on WP:DRV. About eight months ago, it had a few paragraphs added which were a copyvio. Hence, the article was recently deleted. I've undeleted all revisions prior to the insertion of this copyvio. While the article is now back, the editors have lost eight months of work on it, most of which was unrelated to the copyvio. Given the GFDL, is there a better way of handling this? (Radiant) 15:06, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

One very tedious method would be to take each diff in turn (not counting reverted edits as they don't contribute to the final state of the article), edit out each one, and use it to reconstruct the entire edit history minus copyvio on the talk page, starting with the most recent revision and a history on the talk page (which is permitted by GFDL). If there were a lot of revisions it would be a pain to do by hand, though. --ais523 15:14, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
  • 82 edits total. I don't think I'll be doing that by hand. (Radiant) 16:23, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
    How much was the copyvio section edited? If it kept consistent wording, a simple solution would be to use Special:Export to dump the history, find-and-replace to remove the copyvio, then to place the copyvioless history on a Talk subpage. --ais523 16:29, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
    • Resolved now. I've dumped the history on the talk page, and compiled a new version incorporating all edits except the copyvio. (Radiant) 10:54, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Death threat[