Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive223

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Haabet has been hard-banned from Danish WP, and he appears make few valuable edits to English WP. His last edit was to add a picture of Gorm the Old to the article Guthrum the Old. His talkpage will show that several users find him problematic. Is it wise to allow him to edit on English WP?--The trollfighter 11:38, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

We let editors be until they cause trouble here... But I can say that editors that are banned on other Wikipedias historically tend not to last very long here (isn't human psychology fascinating?) His Danish userpage with the ban notice and some kind of commentary are here; any Danish readers in the house? Grandmasterka 11:50, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Never mind, this guy's been here since early 2004 2003!! with no blocks... Just let him be. Grandmasterka 11:54, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm probably the most active Danish editor on this project. Haabet is the only editor that has ever been banned from the Danish Wikipedia. This was a near-unanimous decision from the Danish administrators (19 of 20 admins voted, 18 of these in favour of a ban.)[1] If I remember correctly, they had to change policy to make bans possible. This ban can be appealed by Haabet once every year. First chance is 15 September 2007. The ban was due to Haabet inserting a lot of OR in articles relating to history which was upsetting a lot of people myself included. Haabet's other main area of contributions relate to corsets and the history of them. I have no idea if these edits are sound or not. Haabet was a very dedicated editor on the Danish Wikipedia, but the admins got completely fed up with cleaning up after him. I've only had sporadic encounters with him and the first one was very negative, but to give him the benefit of doubt; some of the last edits I've seen from him look more sound. I haven't checked his recent edits in detail, so this is just a hunch. His user name means "The Hope" so perhaps there is hope after all? What is perhaps a bit more interesting is that User:The trollfighter's edit history is less than two days old, consisting solely of reverting edits made by User:Arigato1 and posting messages on talk pages, but this person already knows how to make posts on AN/I. Isn't this somewhat unusual? Valentinian T / C 12:43, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Since Valentinian, who is a user I respect, considers my activity to be suspicious and wishes to put me in a bad light, I hereby cease to exist as a user. Good luck with the project, and I hope someone else watches the edits of these guys, because I will not do that anymore.--The trollfighter 14:00, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I thank you for your statement that you like my edits. I am honoured. If you perceived my post as rude, I had no intention of being so. However, if I hadn't written the way I did, people might suspect that you were a sock of me. I've had to take a lot of crap from Arigato1, Comanche cph and Comanche's IP-address, but had I not reacted now, I'd no doubt have to waste next week with new accusations that I was a sockmaster. I have no idea how many hours I've wasted on this nonsense. Perhaps I should simply spare the trolls the trouble and close my account myself. Oh yeah, and if anybody believes the sockmaster accusations, by all means run a CU on me. I couldn't care less. Valentinian T / C 14:39, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Another Arthur Ellis sock[edit]

 Done Could someone please block:

per Wikipedia:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Arthur_Ellis. Kla'quot 12:34, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Done. — Nearly Headless Nick {C} 12:38, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Continual removal of red links at Chesham[edit]

What is the current policy on red links? One anon user currently finds them offensive to the extent that they keep trying to remove them from the Chesham article despite requests not to by several users and a note being added to the top of the article saying why they are left in. This same user has removed all the red links from the article at least six times in the last month and doesn't appear to want to listen to requests. Is it possible to lock the article against edits by anon users for a bit? What else can be done to get through to this user? -- Roleplayer 14:30, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

If a red link is to something notable that just doesn't happen to have a page at this point in time, then it should probably be left alone. Given that many of those links are to things that appear not to be notable, eg primary schools, it would probably be better not to wikilink them. Regards, Ben Aveling 15:17, 3 April 2007 (UTC) (talk · contribs)[edit]

I want to report a severe personal attack., a user with whom I've had considerably conflicts before, is an anonymous contributor. However, when you look at his "contributions" you'll see that the majority of his edits are him mixing in my discussions and always chosing the opposing side. In other words he watches my edits and tries to irritate me whenever he can. He wrote the following on Talk:Battle of Kiev (1941)

Dear gentleman, a little well-meant advice: Please refrain from discussing with Rex - it is not worth it, ie a waste of time. He is simply a choleric German-hating guy who is unable to argue systematically, coherently, academically and neutrally due to his limited mental skills and superficial knowledge as weel as to the fact that his mummy never really loved him.

He adapted this all out personal attack 2 times, before he removed it again. Nevertheless I do not want this clear personal attack to go unpunished, and I trust the dealing admin will understand this.Rex 14:39, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

A simple {{uw-npa1}} template will suffice for this one, which I've done. I am slightly concerned, however, at this (since when was a dubious edit a personal attack?) There is another IP address involved, (talk contribs), which is probably the same user because of the similar IPs. x42bn6 Talk 15:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure what you mean. In that link the anonymous IP puts a NPA tagg on the word dubious, not me.Rex 15:25, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Yup, that's my concern. I can't find any real issues but I am still looking (while helping out on other venues) other than this one. My advice: If he is continuing to be like that, then he might just be being disruptive; but you can always keep level-headed and don't get angry. This anon, however, has made several good faith edits so it is probably not just to harass you. x42bn6 Talk 15:28, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Hi, I cancelled the statement delibrately and immediately after I had inserted it as I came to the result that it was to aggressive. However please feel free to check all my contribution and you will not find any unpolite or unfair comment whatsoever. As for Rex`s contributions, I would hardly allege the same... Kind regards, ( 16:54, 3 April 2007 (UTC))

Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/MONGO[edit]

Well, that was interesting. Archived. El_C 17:26, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Not-so-special disruption, in my very humble opinion. Moreschi Request a recording? 15:11, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm not a sysop but I cannot understand whar you mean, can you say what you mean in more detail? Tellyaddict 15:56, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
That checkuser request is, in my opinion, not a lot more than vindictive, disruptive fishing on the part of the person who filed it. As such it is disruptive editing. I mean, MONGO and Chacor, socks of each other? Pull the other one, it's got bells on. Moreschi Request a recording? 16:00, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
The user was new, let's cut him some slack. The user is probably not happy that he got kicked around at an administrative noticeboard. Somebody should point him in the right direction. PTO 16:03, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Right. WP:AGF, this was not meant to be disruptive. I mean, many of us have been around long enough that it sounds like a ridiculous idea, but I'm going to guess that in 4 days our new editor doesn't know that. IMO, the checkuser was rejected and it's time to move on.--Isotope23 16:45, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I personally think this is an alternate account of an old face, if you check the contribs. Moreschi Request a recording? 16:49, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Second edit and around 15th edit. But never mind, just saying that perhaps here AGF should expire a little earlier than usual. Moreschi Request a recording? 16:53, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Wake up're being trolled. He's not a newbie...look at his edits...he's probably somebody I blocked once upon a time.--MONGO 16:50, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I've mentioned this so many times now. I'm not a troll, I am a newbie. But when I first joined up I researched how to use the site. I only came to ANI to report a racist edit comment which I never got round to doing. I posted a comment about MONGO's accusations against Guinnog - at which point I was reverted and called a troll. MONGO has never actually spoken to me ever, let alone explain why he's so hell bent on me being a vandal. I asked for the checkuser for the simple reason that MONGO and Chacor's comments were very similar here on ANI. If I'm guilty of anything it's that I didn't read the RfCU instructions properly. Shock horror! -- I'm so special 16:56, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
New user? Please. It took him less than a day to find the administrators' notice board and display his fluency in Wikispeak by wading into a spat. I didn't even know there were administrators until I had been here for several months. This is someone with an agenda. Looking at his contributions, writing an encyclopedia is not a high priority. Tom Harrison Talk 17:02, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Are you people serious? You are going to discipline me because I have found this page and because I know what I'm doing on this website. Is there an actual policy that says "knowing how to use Wikipedia in your first week is forbidden". Because if not, I think we are done here. -- I'm so special 17:04, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Could you remove that utterly ridiculous signature please. I'm inclined to believe you already know our signature policy. -- Nick t 17:06, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
No, but disruption when, by your own admission, you know what you're doing, really is broken. So stop, because you're walking towards an indefblock. Not a threat, just a friendly warning. Moreschi Request a recording? 17:08, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Ok, thanks. I'd just really really like to chat with MONGO, or anyone about what I've done thats actually considered to be vandalism. Any takers? -- I'm so special 17:11, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Filing a vexatious checkuser request and misrepresenting yourself as a new user will do for a start. (I know, that's not strictly vandalism, but it's in the same spirit.) Raymond Arritt 17:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Not vandalism, disruption. Please stop it. Moreschi Request a recording? 17:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Genuine new users don't usually have such hideous, flashy signatures. And how many of us knew what a checkuser was (let alone how to request one) three days after joining?[2] ElinorD (talk) 17:09, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Probably some ED troll...Chacor and I have been accused there of being socks of each other...kind of hard since we are half a world away from each other, but oh well.--MONGO 17:18, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I think this discussion is leading nowhere. Indeed, Chacor hails from Singapore i believe while MONGO does so from the U.S. As for "I'm so special", i just don't mind if they are a newbie or not -many newly created accounts came here even before they edited 10 edits. Please consider archiving this thread. -- FayssalF - Wiki me up ® 17:22, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm amazed — are there no volcanos erupting in MONGO's and Chacor's heads...? --Mel Etitis (Talk) 17:25, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this page.

Copyright issue[edit]

On cool wall, we had the list of cars on the Top Gear Cool Wall. Leaving aside the question of whether show segments are actually encyclopaedic, the list of cars form the cool wall is, as far as I can see, copyright of the show, just as the script is copyright, the lists from "top 100 foo" shows are copyright, and the singles chart is copyright. I removed it. I'm sure some examples would be fine. I could of course also be wrong. More eyes, please, at Talk:The Cool Wall. Thanks, Guy (Help!) 22:05, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

A list of facts is (by US law, maybe different elsewhere) ineligible for copyright, only a list based on opinion is protected. If these cars where in fact shown on the segment (verifiability may be your real problem) Then the list is fine. Otherwise, if theres no verifiable list, then its an opinion-generated list, and not allowed. The reason music charts are copyrighted is because its not a simple list of how often a record was played and bought, its a complicated procedure involving equations that arent public, estimation and research. -Mask Flag of Alaska.svg 23:26, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
The fact that it's complicated, and has equations, 'sweat of the brow', etc, does not in itself make the end result copyrightable in the US. (note: I am, as always, not a lawyer) --Random832 19:43, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I thought the difference was between previously available info (a list of presidents of the USA is not copyrighted) and a list of newly compiled info (or "opinion", if you prefer), which is normally copyrighted. The Cool Wall is definitely "opinion", but the way it is presented is completely different from a text list. It isn't really a fixed list either. Still, rmoving the list of cars is the correct solution. Another problem isn't that it hasn't any secondary sources. We don't really need articles describing segments of show instead of critically presenting the secondary sources about them (no matter how briliant the show is). Fram 05:19, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
A List of facts is generally not copyrightable, although its arrangemetn may be, if original and non-trivial (alphebetic or numeric order are generally trivial). However, if a magazine article contained a "list of cool cars" in the opnion of the author, that list would be copyrighted. In this case, the list of cars on the "cool wall" is, if I understand it correctly, cars considerd 'cool' not on any objective basis, but simply in the opnions of the show's presentors, or which they think specific other people would belive to be "cool" or "not-cool". That is a clear expression of opnion, and so I think a list of this type is pretty clearly copyrighted. Whether the list is fixed or changes on a regular basis makes no difference, I think. The larger question about whether separate articles for individual episodes or elements of such a show are warrented is another matter altogether. i would be inclined to say no, but opnions could reasonably differ on this matter. DES (talk) 05:32, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

User:BassPlyr23 removing ifd tag from Image:1972 Israeli Olympic team.jpg[edit]

I would like someone to volunteer to communicate with User:BassPlyr23. He has removed the {{ifd}} tag from Image:1972 Israeli Olympic team.jpg three times [3] [4] [5]. Based on the tone on the messages he left me, I believe he would welcome a third part opinion more easily than he would welcome my opinion. --Abu badali (talk) 22:06, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

What the image needs is the good fairuse rationale since this historic and non-reproduceable photo certainly qualifies for the specific article. It is hard to expect a newbie user to be able to come up with such rationale and Abu badali, an experienced image handler, if acting in good faith for the good of Wikipedia, should have helped a newbie user to write a good fairuse rationale rather than act in a way that would likely discourage the newcomer and turn him away from Wikipedia. IMO, Abu badali actions qualify as newbie biting and it is Abu badali who is to be taken to a woodshed about this, not a user who tries to contribute and does not know the wikilawyering rules yet. --Irpen 22:22, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
To Abu badali: meh, I don't watch the images I tag with {{ifd}} to make sure tag stays on them. I just watch the IfD page to make sure the section isn't blanked. --Iamunknown 22:25, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
I wouldn't know how to write a fair use rationale for this image because I see the rationale for using it (unless our own convenience). Feel free to fix the image if you can see more than I do. I did tried to explain the user what he needed to do about the rationale, and about removing the ifd tag, even after he suggested that I want the image removed because I wanted to praise "Palestinian terrorists "[6]. --Abu badali (talk) 22:35, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Ya I saw that and was pretty disgusted. Good job on remaining civil, though. :-) --Iamunknown 22:36, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
The image seems to be at a pretty high resolution (1000 px width) - I rather doubt that this qualifies per the requirements for "web-resolution screenshots". Do we define anywhere what "web-resolution" means? I've always taken it to mean thumbnail-type images of up to 400 px width or so. -- ChrisO 22:43, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Clarification - is it from the film? Was the film based on a real photograph of the atheletes? Can we claim {{Non-free fair use in}} rather than {{film-screenshot}}? Hbdragon88 23:32, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I have reduced the quality of the photo and provided a fair use rationale. I still do not understand what prevented all the good people involved to do it earlier Alex Bakharev 00:08, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Kudos Alex, you beat me to it. That what the experienced user should have done in the first place rather than hit the newbie with templates and threats of all sorts. --Irpen 00:34, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
"rather than hit the newbie with templates and threats of all sorts" - This is a baseless accusation, Irpen! When did I threatened this user (or any other)? Provide diffs or retract this accusation. --Abu badali (talk) 01:36, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Irpen, stop it. Now. You have lodging baseless ad hominem attacks against Abu badali all over the place. It's disgusting. --Iamunknown 05:11, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
IMO, baseless accusations in ad hominem is indeed ad hominem. --Irpen 05:19, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
No its not. I'm addressing the substance of the argument, not the person making the argument. --Iamunknown 05:21, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Please point out what exactly in my entry is an ad hominem. --Irpen 05:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for asking, I'd love to. Per the Wikipedia entry, ad hominem, "An ad hominem argument ... consists of replying to an argument by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument." Your statement that "That what the experienced user should have done" is directly commenting on Abu badali, the person making the argument that this particular image should be deleted; in other words, you have directly replied to Abu badali's deletion argument an ANI post not on the substance of Abu badali's argument, but on Abu badali him(/her)self. Thus ad hominem. --Iamunknown 05:27, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

First of all, the wikipedia article ad hominem is neither a reliable source nor a Wikipedia policy. WP:NPA is a policy and my entry did not violate WP:NPA in any way. I describe the matter as I saw it. My description was harsh but WP:CIVIL. Abu badali posted a complaint asking for a helping hand in the conflict. However, the conflict would not have escalated had Abu badali himself acted properly and courteously towards the users.

The experienced user greats the inexperienced one with a series of arrogant templates at her talk and posting the newcomer's contributions for deletion. This is not exactly the best way to engage the user, not familiar with a labyrinth of our image policy pages, into productive work. The contributor tries her best and she needs to be gently encouraged. The images, that she failed to properly tag, need to be examined, retagged when possible, deleted when necessary, with a friendly and helpful explanation on why we have to do the former or the latter. Instead, the user is communicated through templates that she, not used to the level of courtesy of some here, perceives as threats and intimidation. The user feels unwelcome as instead of a helping hand she gets the messages from what seems like someone who instead of developing articles like she does, goes around from user to user telling them what to do and claiming policies as an excuse to do that with impunity.

The inexperienced user starts looking for an explanation of such an unfriendly attitude and, since the particular topic is greatly politicized, mistakenly attributes the tagger's motives to the political agenda since she can't believe that someone would deal with her this way for any other reason (she was wrong at that and I don't think Abu badali's motives here are politically motivated.)

The bottom line is that should Abu badali have acted courteously and reasonably we would not have had the cause to discuss this incidents at WP:ANI. Stating this is not an ad hominem but simply an opinion on the matter. I am merely pinpointing the root cause of many similar conflicts in the past and want to prevent similar conflicts in the future. This is the reason of my post rather than, as you imply, some outstanding issues with Abu badali of which I have none. --Irpen 07:40, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I though the user would know what the templates messages mean, as he/she already has a couple of them in his talk page. Sorry if my judgment didn't lead to the most productive outcome. But is think that saying that I didn't act "courteously", "reasonably" is a little bit overreaching (considering I have even been linked to "Palestine terrorists"), but you're entitled to your opinion.
But you forget to address the main point being questioned. When did I threatened the user, as you accused me of in ""rather than hit the newbie with templates and threats of all sorts""? Threats are not WP:CIVIL, and accusing me of engaging is such behavior requires strong diffs. --Abu badali (talk) 11:27, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Irpen, this might be relevant now. Your statements referring to Abu badali's person as opposed to his arguments are still ad hominem arguments and are thus irrational, irrelevant and false. Regards, Iamunknown 16:13, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I think Irpen was hasty in accusing Abu B of "threats of all sorts". That said, it's clear that the newbie uploader did feel threatened by the templates and the deletion nominations, and that communicating exclusively in templates and by rolling back their edits (with the automated edit summary "using popups", yet..!) is deplorable. Especially doing it to a new user, who is clearly doing their best to contribute... and then, when the user can't understand what the template is telling her/him to do (can't say I blame them), to repost the same template, for the next image they upload... what were you thinking? Try to put yourself in the other person's shoes. Now, I could be wrong about your communicating exclusively in templates, you have a lot of contribs and I may have missed something. But the only non-template post to this person that I can see is on the Images and media for deletion, obviously too little and way too late.
Iamunknown, I have to say you're not helping. Please provide examples and diffs for your repeated claims that Irpen is posting ad hominem attacks "all over the place", or else stop saying it. There's no ad hominem from him here, that's ridiculous. ("Your statement that "That what the experienced user should have done" is directly commenting on Abu badali, the person making the argument"—er, no.) A common saying on this page is "Diffs or it didn't happen". I click hopefully on your links, to take a look a your evidence that these ad hominems happened somewhere, and find instead a clutch of internet definitions of ad hominem, plus our own page WP:KETTLE... Don't waste administrators' time in this way, please. Give diffs or it didn't happen. Bishonen | talk 02:12, 3 April 2007 (UTC).
Bishonen, last I was aware this was a dead issue. I can't imagine why you are bringing it up again just to waste admin time. --Iamunknown 02:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Bishonen, thanks for the input. I'll try to do better next time. The "deplorable" automatic edit summaries were probably because I didn't had much much patience left for User:BassPlyr23 after he linked me to "Palestine terrorists" [7]. I've recently been remembered to step away from angry users, and that's what I was trying to do. I'll try harder next time. Probably, by ignoring ifd tags removals as Iamunknown suggested above. Best regards, --Abu badali (talk) 00:11, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Administrator inaction toward 3RR Talk Page Vandalism, or clarification of User Talk Page policy[edit]

I am posting here regarding a dispute with administrator User:Rlevse.

Background: User:Brain40 vandalized my talk page, reverting it 6 times. He was warned and continued reverting. He finally stopped when this 3RR dispute was opened.

However, despite the wording of WP:UP saying otherwise, User:Rlevse has proceeded to take no action, close the 3RR complaint, taken WP guideline pages out of content (using a section that applies only to other users' talk pages to apply to edits performed against a user's own talk page), and even stated on User_talk:Brain40 that he is going to willfully ignore the matter.

I would like another administrator's opinion on this matter. This is what WP:UP currently says about editing one's own talk page:

"On a user's own talk page, policy does not prohibit the removal of comments at that user's discretion, although archival is preferred to removal. Please note, though, that removing warnings from one's own talk page is often frowned upon."

I read that to mean that removing warnings (which is also sketchy, since "warnings" are not defined) is frowned upon but there is absolutely no rule against it. It's not considered vandalism, so one cannot revert removal of warnings by oneself under the vandalism umbrella for WP:3RR.

I don't believe that a block of User:Brain40 will be necessary unless he continues to vandalize my user page, but this matter ought to be straightened out and the administrator should be informed of correct WP policy. If the policy in practice disallows removal of warnings from one's own user talk page, the guideline page needs to be changed to make that clear.

I became aware of the policy as written when a warning I left on another user's user talk page was deleted by that user. I checked the rules to see if he could do that - and it's allowed. If the rule allows a user to revert, ad infinitum, another user's talk page to re-insert a warning, then an administrator ruling to this effect entitles me to do as much to this other user's talk page. I highly doubt that is the case. --Tjsynkral 23:51, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

I thought that the new consensus was that it was okay for editors to remove warnings from their user talk pages and that said removal was considered ackowledgement by the editor that they had received a warning. If so, it could be that not everyone has gotten the "word" on this. Cla68 23:59, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Actually, I think it would be a good idea if the guideline page was clarified, either way. Even though I think it is perfectly clear right now that removing warnings from one's own UP is allowed, some people need it spelled out in black and white. --Tjsynkral 00:12, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm not sure what the procedure is for rewording any of the guidelines, but if someone could point me in the right direction, I could try to "get the ball rolling" on it. Cla68 02:02, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I resent these remarks made by tjsynkral, as soon as I made a comment on his talk page he blanked it before he probably even read it...though it is true I was in violation of the 3RR rule it was only to revert vandalism and repost my warning (ironically about 3rr) on this man's user page. Once the edit war got out of control me and another editor reported tj to an administrator. One is not supposed to remove warnings from talk pages as clearly stated by User:Rlevse TotallyTempo 02:17, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

User:Rlevse does not make policy; Wikipedia policy pages define policy, and policies are made by consensus. Furthermore, you had no contact with User:Rlevse at the time you made the reverts, nor did User:Brain40. He was only introduced to the issue when the WP:AN/3RR issue was opened. --Tjsynkral 02:34, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
The policy certainly needs clarified and announced, it's too open to interpretation. Let's say User:ABC123 gets a valid vandalism notice, removes it from their talk page, gets reported to AIV and the admin checks to see if they have been warned and then has to dig through history pages to find it? Hardly conducive to admins fighting vandals. Note the case in question was 3RR, this is just a theoretical example.Rlevse 02:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
That's sad... as an admin it is your responsibility to check the history for removed warnings, and you've revealed that apparently you are loath to check up on these things. Even if it were against policy to remove warnings, it would still happen and you would be expected to look for that. Also, we are still left with a problem in defining a warning. If I went on your user page and warned you for vandalism, without any basis - would you be forced to keep it forever? --Tjsynkral 03:11, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Rlevse is trying to apply the guideline's consistently and it isn't his fault if they're vague. If no administrator action is required here, then I think the next step would be to take this issue to one of the community forums such as the Village Pump. Cla68 03:49, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
The guidelines don't mention anything about removing warnings being prohibited (only that they are "frowned upon" - much like racism is "frowned upon" but not illegal). The best word to describe Rlevse's actions is arbitrary. --Tjsynkral 04:05, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
And what is your point? State it succinctly, preferably, in less than 30 words. —210physicq (c) 04:09, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Can a user delete warnings from his own user talk page? Can another user revert the warnings back onto the page 4, 5, even 6 times, despite WP:3RR? Wiki policy says yes and no, but User:Rlevse says no and yes. This is a problem. --Tjsynkral 04:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
It's ok to remove warnings, although it's better to leave them then to edit war about their inclusion. You should never revert a page more than 3 times in 24 hours. You should never characterise an edit as vandalism that is intended in good faith. It was a mistake for other editors to assert that the 3rr did not apply, but it was equally wrong for you to revert the page more than 3 times. If anyone should incur the penalty here, it would be you, since you reverted the page more than any other individual. So be glad for the inaction on AN3. Guettarda 06:11, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Not so. Read WP:3RR. I may edit my own user space as often as I wish. The sole exception would be if my edit violated WP policy, which it clearly does not. --Tjsynkral 22:58, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I doubt 3RV applies to one's talkpage when removing warnings. --Thus Spake Anittas 13:18, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Guettarda and User:Rlevse. TotallyTempo 18:09, 2 April 2007 (UTC)


A scarlet letter.

Don't mind me, just think this thread could use some illustration so we all know what we're talking about here. --Random832 19:50, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

User:TortureIsWrong acting disruptively[edit]

TortureIsWrong (talk · contribs · logs) has been using increasingly incivil [8] [9] [10] [11] [12] [13] and pointy comments [14] at WP:RFCN. The user has now started nominating other frequent RFCN editors for RFCN [15], in response to the RFCN nomination of his own name. The latest, for Cascadia (talk · contribs) [16], is pretty blatantly against WP:POINT since Cascadia is a region, and the User states on her his User page that she is from there. I believe TortureIsWrong should be blocked for a short time to allow the user to reflect on WP:CIVIL and WP:POINT, and on how to contribute without disrupting Wikipedia. Flyguy649talkcontribs 03:38, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I note that TortureIsWrong (talk · contribs) has been blocked, per the above converstion filed while I prepared this report. I'm leaving this up for the difs. Flyguy649talkcontribs 03:40, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Didn't see the Male userbox on my userpage, ther flyguy! I know I'm a big guy and have long hair, but last I and my finance checked, I was still a guy. LOL! Cascadia TALK| HISTORY 03:43, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, Cascadio ... er, Cascadia. Flyguy649talkcontribs 03:49, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
      • Plainly wrong as the referral to an Admin has been found in my favor. I was right, not disruptive. TortureIsWrong 07:19, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
        • You are trolling, plain and simple. Your first block was short because all first blocks are short. I would highly suggest not pushing your luck. - Merzbow 07:30, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
    • I would highly suggest that you add that comment to your user page that you're not the REAL Merzbow if you haven't done so already. I would also suggest that if you're going to take shots at other usernames you should make sure your own house is in order first. TortureIsWrong 07:36, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Please do stop trolling.Proabivouac 07:37, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
  • TIW, you seem to be bothered often by what goes on at WP:RFCN. I really think you will enjoy editing here much more if you avoid that place altogether, and concentrate on writing the encyclopedia. That seems more conducive to your happiness than getting frustrated in a place you don't even like. coelacan — 08:03, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

It has to be said that, after applying for a change of name and having "TortureIsWrong" accepted, and then joining in discussions at WP:RFCN for some time, his name was suddenly (and without going through proper procedure) proposed for blocking by another regular at RFCN, immediately supporeted by a third. It seemed to me and to others there that this was not entirely a good-faith proposal. It included the claim (though rapidly struck out) that "TortureIsWrong" might be offensive to bondage-lovers, and other absurdities. TortureIsWrong's misbehaviour is not excused by this, but his frustration is understandable. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 09:40, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

The nom was per policy; I admit that the trolling drew my attention to the username but the behavior in itself was not the reason for the nom. As far as procedure, the user replied at WP:RFCN before I could put a notification on his/her talk page, so I didn't see the point in a superfluous notification. I suppose I could have requested that the person change their name before nominating for discussion, but given the user's previous behavior and comments regarding their name in previous discussions, I saw the chance of that being a constructive conversation as being exactly 0%. RJASE1 Talk 13:02, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

It should be noted that the user is trolling again by inserting irrelevant POV into a policy discussion. RJASE1 Talk 16:33, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Torture is most definitely trolling on the RFCN. He votes 'allow' on almost, if not all, cases, even if they are clearly against policy. The most recent was Mike J FOX (talk · contribs). Rather than arguing from policy he challenges its legitimacy. In addition to this he has been generally uncivil and caused disruption in the discussions. I don't know what is motivating him; perhaps he has been bitter about the board since they forced him to change his more blatant violating name. But regardless something needs to be done to prevent his continual disruption there. Thank you. The Behnam 17:58, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
      • I'd like to respond to that by referring people to the recent goings on in the [Byron Coley] article. Am I really the one being "uncivil"? I would also like to point out that my username has now undergone two affirmative reviews and some of the RFCN regulars are still complaining about it. TortureIsWrong 20:54, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
        • No one is talking about your username, so I suggest you to stop hiding behind the nonexistent "there's nothing wrong with my username" curtain. —210physicq (c) 20:57, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
          • I've already said that I can explain the Bryan Coley thing for you, but you haven't made any effort to contact me directly. We won't distract this discussion with accusations against me anyway, especially since you have made little effort to resolve the 'faith' issue with me. Try my talk page, please. Thanks. The Behnam 20:59, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I suggest that admins look at the discussion for themselves. TortureIsWrong is flailing about, and apparently doing his best to disguise the fact that there's an unpleasant witchhunt against him, mounted by a group of editors whose approach to Usernames is via a narrow and doctrinaire reading of policy, and who reject any disagreement with their interpretation as being based in a misunderstanding or rejection of policy. Early mediæval Christianity offers some insrtuctive comparisons here, as does 20th-century communism. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 20:24, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Hmm - yes, I see your point, Mel. Having a civil discussion about the appropriateness of a username is exactly the same as burning witches, the Inquisition, and the gulag. What was I thinking? RJASE1 Talk 20:50, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Comment. There is no question in my mind that TIW is being disruptive on RFCN. Regardless of how wronged he may feel, being disruptive and POINT-y is the exact wrong way to go about expressing his displeasure. The main complaint provides diffs of such behaviour. He has been directed to WT:U multiple times as the correct place to express his disagreement with policy. There is no excuse for his disruptive participation and vicious attitude. That being said, some editors on the "other" side are being problematic as well. They are responding to TIW's baiting. Additionally, after TIW's RFCN was closed as "allow", the decision was questioned (and lead into a broader debate about RFCN). A lot of implications of bad faith and policy abuse were thrown around. That is to say, TIW is not solely responsible for the poisonous atmosphere. It seems to me that some of TIW's "opponents" rely on an overly strict interpretation of WP:U not supported by consensus, while ignoring the provision of WP:U that specificies the line between acceptable and unacceptable is at the discretion of other editors. Much as TIW should raise his concerns on WT:U, should should the "other side" express their concerns about the policy on WT:U. Neither side should be trying to force a significantly broader or narrower policy outside of the policy page. Just my thoughts and observations. Take 'em or leave 'em as you will. Vassyana 23:55, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks very much for your balanced remarks here, Vassyana. I won't deny that I may have gone overboard on occasion, but I really do feel like I have been set upon by a small group of RFCN "regulars" rather unfairly. And it's not really that I disagree with overall policy - I just think - as did the admin who found my name was not a violation - that the SPIRIT of the policy is far more important than picking out a small provision and hammering it to death. I didn't take it to WP:U because it's more a matter of the way policy is interpreted than it is a matter of rewriting it. Again, thanks for your remarks. TortureIsWrong 00:54, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
This user appears to be nothing but a disruptive RFCN troll and I can't see any reason not to block him. John Reaves (talk) 00:27, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
The user has a long history of being a contributive editor, not just a RFCN troll. As has been noted here, the RFCN got heated repeatedly, and there is definitely a 'clean up wikipedia' vibe there. I'm not defending, NOR excusing his actions, but the RFCN stuff has been getting ridiculous, especially in light of the names of some of those most interested in 'protecting' wikipedia. While a 'cool down' block might be valid, there's a lot of context here, and probably a need for some communication to those who seek to 'gentrify' Wikipedia, one editor at a time. Go look at the other debates there recently. Fenian Swine's is a good example of the troubles. An editor with a longstandgin rep, who went through RFCN before, and got a compromise hammered out, now months later, it's back up, and there's a group who refuses to examine or acknowledge standing compromise. There's a lot going on here, and blindly examining TIW outside of context won't actually help anything. ThuranX 01:25, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Fenian Swine was only up at RFCN to bring resolution to a complaint posted on this noticeboard. That issue has been closed and his username was allowed. I'd reconsider the "long history of being a contributive editor" statement above - the user has only been registered about six weeks and has been problematic all along. For some history, check not only his talk page and contribs but also the talk page of his previous (pre-block_ username, User talk:MoeLarryAndJesus. A look through the history will give you an idea of the problems. However, this is probably not the forum for this, and an immediate block probably isn't the right answer - despite the problems, the user has also made positive contributions. I'm thinking an RFC on conduct is probably the best way to go, to get some community consensus. RJASE1 Talk 03:41, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
I would suggest that most of my editing time has been taken up defending my username (which was affirmed) and then dealing with the resulting fallout from people who were greatly upset that it had been affirmed. I have also spent some time defending the username Fenian Swine (closed as No Consensus, default to Allow) and dealing with other RFCN issues. Others are free to call such efforts meaningless if they will. Currently I'm involved in the RFCN against Heavybuddha, which will almost certainly close as Allow. I'd like to spend more time adding information to music-related articles, but it's hard to do under the present circumstances.TortureIsWrong 03:54, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
You've also made unneeded comments such as "long live Fenian Swine!" --TeckWiz ParlateContribs@(Lets go Yankees!) 03:58, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
I suppose that was unneeded. Is there a requirement that all comments on discussion boards be necessary? TortureIsWrong 04:07, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
I see no fallout from the allowance of your username, other than the reaction you get from constantly bringing up a now-dead-thank-God topic. If you want to defend other usernames (which is fine) and write music-related articles (which is great), then by all means do so instead of harping upon a no-need-to-be-shoved-into-everyone's-faces incident. —210physicq (c) 03:59, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
If you want to see the fallout just check out the talk pages of RJASE1 and TheBehnam. I'm not making it up.TortureIsWrong 04:02, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Then ignore them. Easy as that. Strike the high ground when others do not. —210physicq (c) 04:05, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Thus far it seems like being proactive works better around here. If I had ignored "them" my username would have been banned. I didn't, and it wasn't, and as far as I can see RFCN has been improved as a result. TortureIsWrong 04:09, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Um, I meant ignore them now, now that the issue is over (at least for most of us). I still have people seething over my past actions from month's past, yet you don't see me burning with vengeance. —210physicq (c) 04:36, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Um, if you bothered to look at the link I provided, you'd see that this is happening today. I'm not "burning with vengeance." I'm dealing with an ongoing situation. As far as "vengeance" goes, I'm not the one preparing an additional complaint, am I? TortureIsWrong 04:45, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
The problem could be solved without any further action by civil behavior on your part, as many people have pointed out. That's what I would prefer, actually. RJASE1 Talk 04:55, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Automotive hoaxer, possible sockpuppets[edit]

Recently we've had some problems with hoax articles on alleged future automobiles. There was one round of about 5-6 articles that went to AfD. Last week, we had another AfD about the same subject. These articles were created by User:Teddy.Coughlin (who also had a penchant for adding blatant misinformation to articles) and User:Hardlinger. Another article, Saturn Avaze, was created recently by User:Dathe remoncado, possibly in response to this. These articles were written very similarly, usually only one or two lines of poorly written BS. --Sable232 20:34, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

The article was recreated again by Tony Nizwin. I deleted it and added a sock tag to Tony Nizwin's page. IrishGuy talk 20:54, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
What else can we do to about this? I'd say that this Dathe remoncado is most likely a sock of Hardlinger. I'm going to tag both user pages as such, but it's this Teddy Coughlin I'm not sure about. The other three accounts are only used for creating articles, Teddy Couglin is used for adding misinformation to articles as well (there have been what appear to be a few good edits). --Sable232 00:16, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Babysbottom (talk · contribs) and others using talk pages to chat[edit]

Babysbottom's only edits to date have been to use a group of user pages and user talk pages as forums for chatting with other users whose only edits are also restricted to said chatter. Babysbottom is the most prolific among them and has been warned several times [17] [18] [19]. The typical response usually to ignore or avoid the actual issue [20] [21] and the same attitude is shared by others in the group [22]. The complete list of the group appears to be:

Though it should be noted that some of them have only made a couple edits. They don't seem to be receptive, and none of them have contributed constructively. I feel like any more warnings are just wasted effort. Leebo T/C 20:46, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I came acroos a page once when people were using it as a Myspace and then just blanked it and left Chat room-like comments removed by Tellyaddict (talk · contribs). Maybe this could be done and a explanation in the edit summary as it does violate WP:USERPAGE and WP:NOT. Any thoughts? - Tellyaddict 21:03, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
This has been done, and some of the pages were deleted by an administrator, only to be recreated with more chatter. They have also taken to responding with personal attacks. I'm not sure how they misunderstood Wikipedia's purpose to this extent. Leebo T/C 21:08, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I am filing a request at WP:RFP for Full Protection of the User talk and User page, this should prevent it as if blocked they are still able to edit their User talk page.Tellyaddict 21:12, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Babybottom's user page is now proteted against recreation, but I've left the talk page until there is post-block abuse. John Reaves (talk) 21:28, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Babysbottom recently blanked Small Dodge's talk page and continued the chatting. I'll revert it, but should action be taken with Babysbottom? Leebo T/C 18:48, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

And User:Hamsterpoo created User:Hampstershite after being username blocked for the "poo" part, I guess. Leebo T/C 19:03, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Hampstershite blocked. IrishGuy talk 19:08, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I hate it when people get too light handed with this. All accounts blocked.—Ryūlóng (竜龍) 19:09, 3 April 2007 (UTC) Talk pages protected to prevent further conversation. SWATJester On Belay! 19:16, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Drudge Report[edit]

Crockspot (talk · contribs) is claiming "ABC News concluded that the Drudge Report sets the tone for national political coverage." When I WP:ATT this claim the user wrote "rv. Are you being deceitful, or just obtuse?"[23] More opinions welcome. Arbustoo 21:33, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Umm, the title of the referenced article at is "Drudge Report Sets Tone for National Political Coverage". Seems a rationale for the edit, though a summary of the article would might be better, rather than just repeating lead. Shenme 21:41, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
It's a review of a book by Mark Halperin, who is the originator of that quote. At any rate, I can't fathom how this requires administrative intervention; please keep it to the article's talk page. —bbatsell ¿? 21:46, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
The second line of the title is "Book Compares Online Newsman to Walter Cronkite".[24] The article is an interview/review of thr authors' book. If ABC believes what the authors said it isn't claimed. I posted it here as I was attacked by another editor on my talk, the page talk, and the edit summary. Rather than have an edit war, I thought it was better for others to give their opinion. Arbustoo 21:48, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Again reverted[25] claiming the ABC News believes this. Arbustoo 21:56, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Arbustoo (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) was blocked for edit warring on Drudge Report (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), and says my 3RR report of his 4 reverts in an hour and 20 minutes was "deceitful"[26] because I (apparently) reported them in reverse order.[27] I asked for a retraction of the "deceit" charge and got none.[28] His unblock request is awaiting review. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 01:46, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

By the way, I have opened an RfC asking a narrow pair of questions on this issue. I believe that some editors with a history of antipathy toward Matt Drudge are mischaracterizing the source in question. See Talk:Drudge Report#RfC: ABC claim. - Crockspot 15:05, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I blocked Arbustoo on the 3RR report, and fail to see how it was "deceptive". The reverts were listed in reverse chronological order, which is a bit nonstandard, but I saw that and read them from the bottom up anyway. Regardless, there were four reverts. Seraphimblade Talk to me 16:11, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

A new wrinkle[edit]

It has recently come to my attention that Arbustoo is under ArbCom sanction for edit warring. Considering two prior blocks for 3RR, and an ArbCom ruling, I am concerned about his lack of understanding of 3RR; I have filed a report at Arbcom enforcement. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:47, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I recently had a bad-tempered run-in with Rama's Arrow (talk · contribs). Shortly afterwards I received this message from Systemic_rant (talk · contribs), and a while later this message about a problematic AfD. I responded both times, but when I found that Systemic rant hadn't contributed to the AfD I was puzzled and checked his contributions; the account seemed to have been created largely in order to contact me about and to support Rama's Arrow. I left this message at Systemic_rant's Talk page asking him what was going on, and in under fifteen minutes received this furious message from Rama's Arrow.

Now, Rama's Arrow has had no (public) dealings with Systemic_rant, and I can think of no reason for the latter to be on the former's Watch list — so how did he come to see my message, and so quickly? I'm now more than ever suspicious that sock-puppetry's involved. So far as I can tell, no abuse has been perpetrated using the account; indeed, Systemic_rant aroused my initial suspicion partly because he avoided contributing to the AfD to which he'd alerted me. Still, if it is sockpuppetry it's at least bad form to use the sock-puppet to try to influence me in what can only be described as an underhand way.

What's the general feeling about this sort of thing in general, and this instance in particular? --Mel Etitis (Talk) 22:00, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

While I can certainly see where you're coming from Mel, I think we should take Rama's Arrow at his word that the Systemic_rant fellow is not him. gaillimhConas tá tú? 22:03, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
A volcano has just exploded in my mind against Mel Etitis - he better thank God for WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA... Can you "certainly see" where Mel is coming from? Then please tell me, 'coz I'm furious! This is the most ridiculous and insane thing I've ever been accused of. Now Mel Etitis, to this day, has not been a troll so I am even more infuriated than I would if a troll accused me. I have absolutely no idea what links this user:Systemic rant to me. As for his stupid suggestion of how I came to know of this - see this - I was alerted by user:AMbroodEY. And Mel - if you're so bloody suspicious, go ahead to WP:RFCU. I regard this nothing short of a personal attack from Mel Etitis. Rama's arrow 22:15, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Mel Etitis, it was obvious how Rama's Arrow was drawn to Systemic's talk page. His attention was drawn to it by another user under the heading "Interesting" on Rama's talk page. Presumably that contributor and/or Rama had been watching your talk page. He obviously read your recent contribution just before he replied to you direct. Maybe you both need to take a deep breath. - Kittybrewster (talk) 22:20, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

WP:AFG is generally a good guideline... Khoikhoi 22:22, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Take a deep breath? Assume WP:AGF? Why don't you ask Mel - a frivolous accusation like this is nothing short of a personal attack. I have no idea what the devil prompted this assault on my integrity. For the last 5 months I've been fighting this kind of behavior. You guys at ANI better help me figure out Mel's insane charges. Rama's arrow 22:27, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

I don't wish to create a whole heap of trouble, but Mel, your far too quick to rush in and administer people, just relax and take your time to investigate things much more throughly and please start to consider if your post here or anywhere else is both of benefit to Wikipedia and is going to cause more trouble than it solves, especially where other people have to pick up the pieces. -- Nick t 22:41, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Let me be perfectly honest - I am a volunteer, all respectable editors are volunteers. We do all this because something in our retarded brains makes us think this mad dream of Jimbo Wales will do something important. But I didn't go through 11 FACs and 2 RfAs to be accused of disrupting the very project I've worked hard for. When trolls accuse me of racism, bigotry, abuse, etc., I can take it because they are trolls. But when a guy like Mel, whom up till now I didn't think was a troll, takes it upon himself to personal attack me with incredulous accusation like this, it makes very, very mad. I will never take stuff like this lightly - I want Mel to be accountable for this. Rama's arrow 22:48, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

[After edit conflict]
Before Rama's Arrow (and one or two others) explode with indignation, note a few points:

  1. I didn't accuse Rama's Arrow of being a sock-puppet, or of anything else — I accused Systematic Rant of being one. The only (intemperate, not to say uncivil) accusations have come from Rama's Arrow.
  2. I didn't claim that he was Rama's Arrow's sock-puppet; I asked: "are you Rama's Arrow, or just a friend of his using this sock-puppet account to help him out?" A reasonable question, given Systematic Rant's limited set of actions.
  3. I'm not sure what "administer people" means, but I can't see that what I did was any different from what most of us who have been here for a while have done many times: when we suspect that someone is a sock-puppet (and it's pretty obvious that Systemic Rant is one — moreover I see that his User page has just been tagged as such) we ask them politely if that's what's going on. I'm not clear what alternative is being suggested for me here: ignore the sock-puppetry, or simply block the sock-puppet without any preliminary discussion, or what? What "investigation" is suggested, apart from approaching the suspected sock-puppet and mentioning it here?
  4. As for other people "picking up the pieces" — I haven't seen anyone doing that. I've seen a bit of finger-wagging based on false premises (perhaps by people who haven't actually loked at the details of the suituation properly), but I'm not sure that that counts. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 23:02, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Mel, it's clear from the comment left on your talk page that User:Systemic rant is not a supported of Rama's Arrow.
Rama, your over-reaction to this rather helps prove Systemic's rant. Αργυριου (talk) 22:55, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I am NOT "overreacting" and I don't care about what this Systemic rant fellow says or does. I just want to make sure that Mel Etitis and others like him think 2,000 times before frivolously attacking someone's integrity like this. And forgive me for being a little emotional, for I am not comforted by the prospect of being wantonly insulted on a project I've worked so bloody hard to help build. There wasn't any reason on the face of the earth for Mel to think that this Systemic rant chap was me, except that we had a terse exchange yesterday. This is an incredulous waste of time and energy caused by Mel Etitis's most insane accusation. As I've said, one expects such behavior from trolls alone. Rama's arrow 23:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I can't see how your second statement is true in any way, shape, or form. Rama may be overreacting, but that isn't at all related to Systemic rant's rant. Personally, I have to say I see this Rama's way and can't imagine what caused Mel, a respected editor and administrator, to assume such incredible bad faith of another contributor (no matter who they are, really), without a shred of evidence (and in fact, a preponderance of evidence to the contrary). —bbatsell ¿? 23:04, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I find Mel's incredible assumptions of bad faith and opprobrious allegations to be rather sad. I am certain Rama does not need to make socks to be respected across wiki, as his FA's and help on WP:INDIA, WP:BANGLADESH, WP:PAKISTAN and other projects can exemplify. Rather one can view Mel's outburst as suspicious, as it comes in conjunction with his vote on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hindutva propaganda. He has made an accusation
[29]. This is after of course, viewing the arguments presented before him and noting that Rama's Arrow voted delete. So these are two attacks on Rama's Arrow from Mel in a short amount of time. First call a respected admin a troll, then accuse him of sockpuppetry, then come whining to WP:AN/I. Rather peculiar conduct on the part of another admin.Bakaman 23:20, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Rama is NOT overreacting in any way. Asking a user "are you Rama's Arrow or just a friend of his using this sockpuppet account?" is extremely provocative. I can only read it as a barely disguised accusation of sockpuppetry — or a rhetorical question that seems meant to cause people to start doubting Rama's Arrow. Either way, it's a terrible slight against one of the best editors and admins we have, by another respected admin for God's sake, which gives the question/accusation a veneer of authority. If any number of other editors made such a comment, it could be ignored, but a fellow admin making a comment like that fully justifies Rama's response. ॐ Priyanath talk 23:45, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
While Systemic_rant is definitely a sockpuppet of SOMEONE, I can't see any immediate evidence to point a finger at anyone - all you know for sure is that it's someone watching similar pages to you. Matthew Brown (Morven) (T:C) 23:57, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Dmcdevit has blocked user:Systemic rant as a sockpuppet of user:Kuntan - [30]. Rama's arrow 01:23, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm contributing to this, since this is partly my fault. I received an email from the sockpuppet account a while ago, and meant to get in touch with Mel to let him know not to give the account much attention, for obvious reasons. I didnt, and this has blown up. I apologise to both Nirav and Mel.
Nirav: I've just been accused of sockpuppeteering as well. On this very page, a little higher up, it is suggested that we take a holiday from civility on India pages. Frankly, my hope is that either you dont react like this, or you make more of an effort to enforce civility when others are at the receiving end. Hornplease 10:01, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I've had some time to cool down so I'd like to leave my final comment on the matter - do I regret my heated comments? Not really - to me it is clear that Mel Etitis, who had no reason whatsoever to assume that I was connected to the sock account, thus made a personal attack and nothing less on me. He never attempted to obtain any evidence, did not file a report at WP:RFCU and thus this entire ANI report was completely bogus - sockpuppetry (especially by an admin) is a serious business, so Mel's conduct is irresponsible and suspicious. If he ever honestly thought that I was socking, he would have had the balls to go to RFCU and take some definitive action.
Accusations of any nature are a very serious business - as admins, we should know that best. I have no respect for Mel whatsoever from this point. The bottomline for this miserable episode is responsibility and accountability - Mel Etitis behaved like a troll would and a higher standard of conduct and responsibility is expected from him. If he has any enduring issues with me, it is his responsibility to discuss with me like a man, instead of dropping bogus charges and attempting to malign me. Rama's arrow (just a sexy boy) 13:20, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Rama's Arrow, listen to your own comments. "I have no respect for Mel whatsoever". "Mel's conduct is irresponsible and suspicious","frivolously attacking someone's integrity", "wantonly insulted", "Mel Etitis's most insane accusation", "Mel, who up till now I didn't think was a troll", "Take a deep breath? Assume WP:AGF? Why don't you ask Mel", "Mel's insane charges", "A volcano has just exploded in my mind against Mel Etitis - he better thank God for WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA...", "his stupid suggestion",'re getting way too worked up, and you're borderline losing civility here. If you're going to be accusing Mel of being incivil, you should make sure that you yourself don't violate that first. SWATJester On Belay! 17:12, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Agreed; I think WP:KETTLE applies a bit here in regards to the civility (or lack thereof) displayed by both sides. The moral: don't go around making accusations without some sort of proof and try and take a deep breath before responding with vitriolic rhetoric that doesn't do anything to help the situation.--Isotope23 18:13, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I respect ur views, SWATJester and Isotope, but when I said "I have no respect for Mel whatsoever," I was dead serious - it is my candid opinion of him. Mel's charges and actions were "insane," and "stupid." WP:CIVILITY/WP:KETTLE are not supposed to prevent someone from saying that the sky is blue. And I will never cease to stress the gravity of Mel's irresponsible conduct. Rama's arrow (just a sexy boy) 19:53, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Just to reiterate (for the umpteenth time) — I didn't make any accusation against Rama's Arrow, nor display any incivility; I asked a sock-puppet if he was Rama's Arrow or someone else... The explosion came solely from RA and one or two others here. --Mel Etitis (Talk) 18:37, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

What is the point in asking a deaf man to describe the music of a nightingale?

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Solicitation of Interviews[edit]

John2429 (talk · contribs) is soliciting people to conduct paid interviews for a purported Grad School project. Please see Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)#Looking to Interview Wikipedians, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball#Looking to Interview Wikipedians, Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Jazz#Looking to Interview Wikipedians, and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Military history/American Civil War task force#Looking to Interview Wikipedians. Is this activity permitted? Should these be removed? Should any warnings be issued for this? --After Midnight 0001 18:05, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

  • I personally would turn a blind eye as its for a non-profit organisation. Epbr123 18:08, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I brought something similar to this up a while back and the general consensus of the people who responded to my WP:AN post seemed to be to let it slide.--Isotope23 18:23, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
  • This is legitimate. I've spoken with him, and I wouldn't worry too much about it. alphachimp 04:24, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Indeed. John's project is legitimate, and part of an academic research project (fully approved by his university). I have communicated with him too. --Ragib 04:27, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Some kind of personal attack[edit]


Hope this is the right place. I fear it isn't, unless oversight is appropriate. Special:Contributions/ shows a personal attack being added on two user's talk pages (claimed to be, and likely to be, the same person). But they have fake signatures. So perhaps this is really about attacking the person whose signatures they are. There has been intemperate discussion e.g. [31], Talk:Scotch_whisky#Map. Neither user is active at the moment, but they edit in bursts. I don't know what to do about it anyway. Would it be in order to just delete them as personal attacks, or is that out of order on another user's talk page? The IP appears to belong to AOL, so there's no profit in investigating that further. Notinasnaid 18:43, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I went ahead and warned the IP, although if it belongs to AOL, it may not do much good. Heimstern Läufer 18:49, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


This guy is already blocked for vandalism and is expressing his general contempt for the community by abusing his talk page. Not a crisis worthy of AIV, but worth making note of.. His 24 hour block expires in a little over 2hrs --Versageek 19:17, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I reverted. If he wants to remove warnings, that is his perogative, but he is not entitled to falsify posts by others. IrishGuy talk 19:25, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I'd be inclined to reset the block timer for the disruption and perhaps extend it for falsification of posts. I'd say an indef block on this guy is going to be pretty inevitable, he isn't going to grow up in 2 hours, is he. -- Nick t 19:30, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
This is pretty clearly a vandalism-only account, why is it not already indefblocked? I'll do it myself unless someone gives a reason I haven't seen. —bbatsell ¿? 19:31, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Block away. Watch out for vandalism from his IP, though: That will surely follow. IrishGuy talk 19:42, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Seconded. I've reverted and protected his talk page, btw. -- Nick t 19:47, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I tried to extend the block to indefinite, but it wouldn't let me. But seriously... When's the last time anyone saw any good come out of these vandalism-only accounts? I never have, in fact I've seen these accounts step up their vandalism to something worse when some administrator decided to block them for a finite amount of time. This one more than warrants an indefinite block, IMHO, especially when he's changing other people's comments like that. Grandmasterka 22:04, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

User: on Vincent Fumo[edit]

User: appears to be a single purpose account, with the sole purpose of vandalizing (blanking) the text of Vincent Fumo, and replacing it with a BLP violation. The user has been warned once by a bot, and once by me, at User talk: - Crockspot 19:32, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

  • Sounds like a job for WP:AIV if he does it again...--Isotope23 19:38, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Stalking and Sockpuppetry[edit]

User [User:Khoikhoi| Khoikhoi] and [User:Beit_Or| Beit Or] began stalking and reverting all of my edits back to own versions without any comments or discussion here [32] here [33] here [34] here [35]. Suspected sockpuppet of user Khoikhoi who also has been stalking and reverting my edits consecutively[36], here [37], here [38], here [39]. --Oguz1 19:41, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

There is no sockpuppetry or stalking here. You have also been warned about this. Rama's arrow (just a sexy boy) 20:05, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I have blocked Oguz1 (talk · contribs) for 2 weeks for disruptive editing and WP:POINT violations. Rama's arrow (just a sexy boy) 20:18, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Persistant Spammer - Vanity edits[edit]

The following usernames all appear to be socks of the same individual, whose every edit is either link-spam, information about himself (Asa Dan Brown), or information about his company/organization (Insight Psychological Inc). I happened to notice this trend after watchlisting some random pages due to vandalism. I'm not sure what needs to be done, so I am bringing it to your attention here. The suspected usernames/IP, along with some representative diffs, are listed below. Thanks. Pastordavid 20:12, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Drop by User:Shadow1 and ask to have the offending link/links added to Shadowbot's spam blacklist. -- Nick t 20:14, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Done. But should account creation be blocked on the IP? I am generally not quite so adament about vandalism blocks, but this sort of revolving account creation seems to game the system. -- Pastordavid 20:38, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Nevermind ... for now I am satisfied with the apology offered by the "staff of Insight Psychological", and will simply let the matter go for now. -- Pastordavid 21:08, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


I created this page, as a simple category, to flag BLP concerns quickly: WP:BLPC. It seems like a good idea. - Denny 21:03, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Questionable airport links[edit]

I recently rolled back all edits by Swilson86 (talk · contribs) due to highly suspect insertions of links to apparent airport websites and I just wanted to mention it here in case anyone wanted to double check my actions. -- moe.RON Let's talk | done 21:29, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

They appear to be spam. Frise 21:52, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

If Wikipedia funding dries up, it's all my fault[edit]

An anon in the range added this question to the Reference Desk: [40]. Since an anon in that range has repeatedly been adding anti-Semitic, anti-Stern polemics to the Help Desk, I deleted it as trolling. I now have the following on my Talk page: [41]. Corvus cornix 22:11, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

You...!!! --Golbez 22:15, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
How could you! -Mask Flag of Alaska.svg 22:17, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I will be quite upset if my garishly extravagent salary dries up. -- Pastordavid 22:17, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Could this be harassment or something? Or perhaps a little pointy? x42bn6 Talk 22:29, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I love threats like that. They cheer you up when you're in a bad mood cause they're clearly such bollocks. Like when people threatened to sue you, with no grounds at all. I find it hilarious. --Deskana (ya rly) 04:12, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Actually, it's the range. My bad. Corvus cornix 22:54, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Ah, no problem. Those folk only have ningi's anyway. Too piddling by far. Shenme 23:02, 3 April 2007 (UTC)



User:PadrigPlasdig appears to be on some sort of mission to troll user talk pages. See Special:Contributions/PadrigPlasdig. This is leading to cascade issues (or he's got a sockpuppet that he's using to complain about himself - either way, it's bad). —DragonHawk (talk) 23:10, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Encyclopedia Dramatica troll; username blocked, user talk trolling deleted/removed. ˉˉanetode╦╩ 23:32, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks! That was quick. What service! :-) —DragonHawk (talk) 23:35, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, we aim to please ˉˉanetode╦╩ 23:53, 3 April 2007 (UTC)


This user keeps adding unverifiable information ([42], [43], [44], [45], [46]) without citing a source. The user did this after a final warning and also created a few unsourced articles (possibly hoaxes). These include Rebbeca Langron. Squirepants101 00:04, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

The user never provides an edit summary. Squirepants101 00:05, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
  • You should list vandalism at Administrator intervention against vandalism [47] --Masterpedia 03:18, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
I wasn't sure whether this was obvious vandalism or not. Squirepants101 03:26, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
My comment was based on your warnings to User:Sugarsugar123. [48] --Masterpedia 03:35, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

User:Paul venter and User:Berks105 engaged in some sort of edit war[edit]

It would appear that two users Paul venter (talk · contribs) and Berks105 (talk · contribs) are engaged in a sort of edit war over a bunch of articles related to South Africa. Some of the edits and reverts have started to get incivil, and one of the users has resorted to personal attacks. This probably needs further investigation. I make no statements yet over who is in the "right" and who is in the "wrong", but there are some serious issues going on here, especially regarding ownership of articles, excessive reverting, personal attacks and incivility that need to be looked into. --Jayron32|talk|contribs 05:14, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I do not wish to pass comments on a fellow editor, but my (and others') previous interaction with User:Paul venter mirrored nearly the exact same situation over the position of the infobox image image in Jonty Rhodes. I found Paul Venter at the time very aggressive, abusive, and generally very resistant to accepting others' views. He also engaged frequently in personal attacks towards individual editors. Further when efforts were made to build a consensus, he declined to abide by the consensus and merely increased his aggression and abuse. Rueben lys 09:24, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
An argument over whether the image should be placed in the infobox? It seems that Paul venter seems to have acted very stubbornly in that issue... Well,Paul deserves a warning for 3RR, which he seems to have broken, looking at his contribs. As for the image placement, I have no opinion and it should be settled via WP:DR. --KZ Talk Contrib 09:36, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
My impression is that Paul is feeling stalked although Berks105's edits are actually constructive. Paul is reverting Berks's edits calling them vandalism which they are not. There is some WP:OWN here. - Kittybrewster (talk) 16:18, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
I request 48 hour block on User:Paul venter for WP:CIVIL, WP:AGF, WP:OWN, persistent reverting, failure to discuss, excessive size of images, accusations of vandalism at Lionel Phillips. He needs time out to think about his approach. - Kittybrewster (talk) 07:14, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Blocks are used to prevent damage or disruption to Wikipedia and should not be used as a punitive measure.User:Berks105 has disengaged, according to his userpage, so a block would be inappropriate. Aatomic1 10:41, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
From a quick glance, some of the edits by Paul venter are not just edit warring, but clear reaches of MoS, e.g. [49]. Reverting in order to clearly breach MOS is disruptive. --BrownHairedGirl (talk) • (contribs) 12:50, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
User:Paul_venter engaged in discussion on his talk page but has now blanked it. - Kittybrewster (talk) 13:50, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Berks105 has done his best to discourage Paul but Berks has retired and Paul continues to disrupt without discussion. The latest one is persistent removing of Lady in 1st line of Lady Phillips. When I raise it on his talk page, he merely blanks it. He is very stubborn. I request he is blocked 48 hours not as punishent but to prevent damage and disruption. - Kittybrewster (talk) 12:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
All I ask is to be left in peace to write articles without constant reverts and edits while I am busy on an article. For the latest example of this see Charles Collier Michell where Kittybrewster ignored an "inuse" tag and proceeded to edit. She and Berks have dogged my footsteps and specifically targeted me. For Kittybrewster to request that I be blocked for standing up to their vandalism and lack of courtesy, is extraordinary. I would appreciate intervention. Paul venter 17:17, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
re: Berks has retired.
Berks105 (talk · contribs) has not retired. He continues to use Berks105 to make edits. He has made over 100 edits after announcing retirement on 18 March 2007. He has made 25 edits after moving his talk page to the archive with the comment, "(Archive (Preparation to actually leave; recent argument reminded why i decided to leave!))"[50] Of those 25 edits, six were the first edit after a change by Paul venter (talk · contribs).
--Kevinkor2 08:32, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I keep meaning to stop, but I wanted to get the issue of Paul venter's constant reverting of MofS edits sorted first. I feel that with Kittybrewster now getting involved this can be done, although venter still seems reluctant to realise he doesn't own articles. Anyway, I will make an effort from now to make no more edits as Berks105. --Berks105 10:31, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

(undent)Be careful when bandying about charges of vandalism. Vandalism is narrowly defined as actions designed to damage or harm Wikipedia articles. There appears to be none of that going on by you, or by EITHER of the two people you have accused of vandalism. While I make no statements on the position of either side vis-a-vis the quality of their edits in this dispute, such edits are clearly not vandalism. --Jayron32|talk|contribs 06:56, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

This seems to be a spat of style over substance. I suggest the stylists back off a while. Someone else will eventually edit the articles as they see fit - they might even develop a constructive relationship with Paul venter Aatomic1 12:23, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

User:Gun Powder Ma at Four Great Inventions and Siege of XiangYang[edit]

I have a complaint raised against Gun Powder Ma. He doesn't seem to resort to middle ground and prefers to edit things according to his own sources/POV and throw away contradicting opinions with their own sources as well. He continually edits away any source I pointed out in Wikipedia when it comes to "Four Great Inventions". He does not answer the discussion section, and although he argued with me on the neutrality of his source in Siege of XiangYang he now only reverts the edits back to those of his own instead of discussing the neutrality of it with me. I pointed out that having minority sources is against Wikipedia's NPOV rule, but now he just stopped replying and only resorted to reverting. So I'm out of luck for better communication.

[User:ImSoCool|ImSoCool]] 1:125, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

(Empty message for archiving purposes) Fram 14:04, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

User: Drieakko[edit]

This user keeps pushing biased versions in certain articles, for example leaving out Finnish names, and names in other languages too, in Finland related articles, wrongly using the word Finnic instead of Finnish[51] or using the Swedish name of a unilingually Finnish speaking city.[52] It seems to be pro-Swedish vandalism. --Jaakko Sivonen 15:27, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Jaakko_Sivonen (talk · contribs) has been blocked 12 times, and four for violating NPA. Last time was Jan 20, when he was blocked for one month. He started editing in March again, again aggresively targetting the same set of articles with the same arguments. Isn't it time to take some further actions?
Fred-Chess 16:40, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
Argumentum ad hominem: you can't use my past to argument against my actions in the present time. You have to direct your arguments in my recent actions which have been, unlike you say, reasonable, even user: Jdej said so[53]. I think Wikipedia should take actions against you, for example permanently banning you. --Jaakko Sivonen 19:11, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Oh, yes, we can use your past to argue that it's time for a ban for exhausting the community's patience. How in fact would there even be such bans, if a user's past wasn't taken into account? We can mention your disruption of the Swedish wikipedia, too, if it comes to that. Fred, I suggest you propose a community ban at the Community sanction noticeboard, that's what it's for, and it's the logical next step after a one-month block fails to have any effect. Bishonen | talk 18:10, 4 April 2007 (UTC).
While using your past to claim your present actions are wrong would be an ad hominem argument, that wasn't what he was doing. He was using your past to claim that your present actions (which he is asserting are wrong anyway) deserve more severe punishment as a repeat offender. -- 19:07, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Block for disruption at rfcn[edit]

I have blocked for three hours User:TortureIsWrong for disruption at Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User names. Besides his comments that bordered on trolling, he listed Merzbow's username and then Cascadia's for review, out of spite or to make a point. Review and undo invited. Tom Harrison Talk 03:16, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Three hours only? True, his username may not merit a block, but trolling is an indefblockable offense. —210physicq (c) 03:19, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I second the indefblock. The user has been trolling around RFCN all week, and has made decisions based on nonsense, included allowing a user name with the comment "I think it's funny". He has also been incivil (see his user talkpage). He also just made a point violation. --TeckWiz ParlateContribs@(Lets go Yankees!) 03:32, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Although this 3 hour block is correct, I think indef'ing might be a bit harsh as this user was POINTing after his own username had been nominated for discussion on WP:RFCN. (Netscott) 03:37, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
Last name was MoeLarryAndJesus. It's not a short-term POINT; that RFCN was about a month ago, and involved some trollery itself. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 05:07, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
File an RFC then... Im wary to indef block without making an attempt at rehabilitation. He seems like he honestly wants to contribute and got sucked into the drama. Maybe get a mentor for him -Mask Flag of Alaska.svg 18:12, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
There is also some question of a variety of sock POINT names based off of his. While it is not clear, they could have been made by him to further his pointy trolling presence on the board. The Behnam 19:08, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
I have nothing to do with any such names, and I consider the absolutely unfounded accusation that I did to be highly uncivil.TortureIsWrong 03:48, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Hold on, let me get this straight... You're saying he should be blocked because you don't like the way he votes? ((EC/P.S.) and, accusations of disrupting Wikipedia to illustrate a point are thrown around far too lightly in general, can someone substantiate the claims that he's been disruptive?) --Random832 13:19, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
While I agree that TorutreIsWrong can be uncivil, I believe that an indef block would be highly innapropriate without very very very strong evidence of a reason to. -- Chrislk02 (Chris Kreider) 13:23, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

DRV Abuse[edit]

Some editors abused DRV in here. These users voted endorse because they voted delete in the AFD. It says on DRV that it is about process not content but several endorsers based their votes on the content. Therefore, the conclusion has been biased by these abusive votes. Bowsy (review me!) 10:20, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Please see both my and this 'gentlemans' userpage to see why this is a bad-faith accusation by someone who desn't know what he's talking about. If he had bothered to check the AfD that saw his and his friends article deleted, he would have seen quite quickly that neither myself, nor the other user he accused, made a single comment in the AfD. The Kinslayer 08:43, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
There is a lot of confusion about "process" and whatnot. It's as well to make absolutely clear that an article must never remain on Wikipedia because of process, and an article must never be deleted from Wikipedia because of process. The only thing that matters is whether the article is suitable for Wikipedia. So it's quite in order for any Wikipedian to endorse a deletion because they think the article should have been deleted. In fact it would be a bit strange if they did not. --Tony Sidaway 08:47, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

repeated addition of false information on Nadine Gordimer[edit]

repeated insertion ([54], [55], [56], [57], breaking 3RR) of statement ( "home is protected by high-tech security equipment" ) contradicted by source provided [58], despite warning on article and user talk pages, by IP user(s), and mirrors earlier edits ([59], [60]) by tendentious editor Doldrums 17:24, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

May be a sockpuppet of User:Yakuman (and/or User:, based on the timing and style of edits of Yakuman and the three anonymous Verizon editors today. --lquilter 17:56, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
continues[61]. Doldrums 15:55, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

ZoreniaBlueLightning (talk · contribs)[edit]

This user seems just a tad suspicous to me, so I created this account to report without retaliation. Ignoreme 21:07, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

ZBL has 3 edits, all on March 17, complaining about User:Bandit197t9, who has no edits. User:Ignoreme has this one edit. Calling this a tempest in a teapot is an underestimation of the value and scope of teapots. No action taken. --AnonEMouse (squeak) 15:42, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Edit war on Duke Rape Case page[edit]

We're having a few problems on the 2006 Duke University lacrosse team scandal page, which is leading to an edit war:

  1. During an ongoing discussion of whether to post the alleged victim's photo, a user persists in unilaterally overriding the discussion and posting it. An edit war is starting. I'm not sure how to return attention to the discussion without continually reverting his edits.
  2. The same user has difficulty understanding the Wikipedia:Reliable sources and Wikipedia:Verifiability ideas. First he claimed Wikipedia:Assume good faith applied to content (we should assume it's valid unless proven otherwise). Now he claims any citation is a good one. Twice I've clearly quoted and referenced the policies, but I think the heat of the debate is interfering with communication. An neutral third party might be more effective.
  3. I could use a tip on resolving the question over posting the photo. I think the discussion has nearly run its course -- and frankly, I tried to address the merits of the issue, but I was mostly alone; it wasn't much of a discussion -- and no consensus is apparent. What now?

Thanks in advance, Guanxi 23:02, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

This is probably more the sort of thing for dispute resolution than this noticeboard. Heimstern Läufer 23:11, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
This appears to be a content dispute not requiring administrator intervention and would thus be more appropriately addressed at Wikipedia:Resolving disputes. Cla68 23:21, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
Hmmm ... it seems like #2 and #1 might fit here, but I'll try Request for Comment first. Thanks. Guanxi 15:07, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
  • Is it just me, or should we be looking to merge and redirect Crystal Gail Mangum to this article, on the gorunds that it is an article on a living individual which focuses almost exclusively on a singler incident. Guy (Help!) 16:26, 4 April 2007 (UTC)[edit]

Possible violation of WP:NPA by user in the edit summaries of NBA Records (see the edit summaries on "21:59, 3 April 2007" and "22:03, 3 April 2007"). Myasuda 02:04, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Warn the user using {{uw-npa1}}, remembering to substitute the warning. The ip has also made many questionable edits to many sport teams articles, though I have no idea if the edits are legitimate. --KZ Talk Contribs 07:51, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Tmangray (talk · contribs) prolonged revert warring and incivility[edit]

Tmangray (talk · contribs) has a history of trying to ignore consensus on List of California hurricanes and Category:California hurricanes by performing cut and paste moves and posting incivil remarks to people trying to explain the consensus to leave those pages at their current locations. He has done this before, and was reverted, and I left him a warning on his talk page, which he responded to in an incivil manner. A short to moderate term block might be needed, but I'm not sure for how long, and I probably can't do it. --Coredesat 04:55, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

After reading the four talk diffs, I must say I only find one obviously incivil. It may be worth hearing his case. It sounds interesting. (Out of curiosity, do you have any links to discussion that established this consensus? I'm not trying to second-guess you, but I'd like to read a bit more into this case.) --Chris (talk) 06:19, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
I can't seem to find the exact discussion - I'll ask someone. But if you check Talk:List of California hurricanes, you'll notice that he tried to get involved in a related discussion that had been over for seven months. The National Hurricane Center (and likewise, WikiProject Tropical cyclones), always defaults to "hurricane" if a storm was ever at hurricane strength, not just at landfall; but he doesn't seem to understand this (otherwise he would have brought this up on articles for other regions). --Coredesat 07:01, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
Actually, after checking, the discussion either happened before I joined the project in March 2006, or I don't know where it is, but it's standard procedure to default to the highest classification used. I left an explanation on his user talk page, but this is not the first time someone has tried to explain it to him (the first time someone tried to explain it to him, he "vehemently disagreed" and proceeded to do his cut and paste moves). --Coredesat 07:18, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Note from a blocked user?[edit]

Hi: I received the following on my talk page. In my humble opinion, he may have a serious point, but I'm a little nervous about directly taking it to AfD, because I don't want to be acting as a proxy for a blocked user. Need some direction, please.

Begin quote: Hello, Madhu Omalloor is a non-notable bio. A cartoonist and sub-editor without even a single notable award to cite is not even borderline notable. The two awards mentioned are highly suspect. One is a fellowship. Anyway, not supported by any reference. Can you please send it to AfD? I am a blocked user. 06:10, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your guidance. Philippe 06:29, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Advise the supposedly blocked user to try the {{unblock}} template. BuickCenturyDriver (Honk, contribs, odometer) 06:46, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Please don't bother. I am User:Kuntan who wields an army of socks, as they say. Not all are listed here either. If the community had some dignity, they would have done away with Thanu Padmanabhan an article created by one of my socks. And on an RfC our reputed editors have overwhelmingly agreed that User:Kuntan was a vicious troll who didn't make a single positive contribution to WP. Then I used a real sock and prodded the given article. And one of the learned editors deprodded it. Isn't this worst kind of misappropriation? 08:40, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Ban-evading IP blocked for one month, does not appear to be shared. Sandstein 12:00, 4 April 2007 (UTC)