Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive360

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Civility issue: User:Shrine_Maiden[edit]

Over the past week, Shrine Maiden has been making repeated edits that violate Wikipedia's policies in regards to writing fiction, all on the List of Claymore characters page. First, the user added CLEARLY biased content to the page with [[1]] edit, which obviously favors the character "Teresa" over that of "Priscilla", whom Shrine Maiden admits to hating. Then, over the next week, Shrine Maiden repeatedly reverts several edits made by myself and other editors in order to continue a personal mission of Teresa-hype. Such as with [[2]], where Shrine Maiden makes his/her intentions clear with the edit summary. On the talk page, both myself and another member named Twsl have attempted to dissuade Shrine Maiden from continuing, but we are called "vandals" and I personally am accused of "acting almighty". I've even allowed Shrine Maiden to add some of his/her other statements while nixing what is blatantly POV, with little avail. Can an admin please step in and help this matter get resolved? King Zeal (talk) 05:17, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

NOTE: Also, please take a gander at Shrine Maiden's talk page, and main page, which strike me as very odd, especially since he/she admits to deleting old comments to the Talk page, because they were critical. Also of note is the fact that he/she admits to not assuming good faith with others, which is a result of my pointing out a double standard on the Claymore characters talk page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by King Zeal (talkcontribs) 05:28, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I'll review the situation, King Zeal. LaraLove 14:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
lighten up a little, dude. its clear that the comment on the talk page about good faith was intended to be ajoke, and User:Shrine MAiden's userpage is remarkably well-written and wellorganized than most talk pages. the more serious issue is the first one htat you raised, and i recommend that you stop interacting with here directly in order to avoid a conflict of interests. Smith Jones (talk) 14:45, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
I just found it a little odd and decided to bring it up. It doesn't particularly bother me. The first issue is what I was particularly griping about. King Zeal (talk) 15:07, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
The incivility issues seem extremely minor and a bi-product of a content dispute. For that reason, I recommend filing a request for comment. LaraLove 15:18, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I doubt any admins here watch/read anime/manga. So I'll give a brief description about it first:

  • There is this character called Teresa, the author made her the most powerful warrior ever. Teresa beat another character called Priscilla and spared her life. Priscilla released over 80% power and turned into a monster, and chased Teresa again. Teresa beat Priscilla again with only 10% power. Priscilla dropped her sword, fell to her knees, cried and begged Teresa to kill her before she completely became a monster. Teresa lowered her guard, Priscilla picked up the sword and killed Teresa with 2 quick blows. Then she became a monster and slaughtered the rest of Ilena, Noel, Sophia.
  • But it was written like this in the article: "However, Priscilla pursued and attacked her in blind rage. In her anger, Priscilla accidentally released too much Yoma power and Awakened, slaughtering Teresa, Noel, and Sophia and severely wounding Ilena." Anyone who read that would think that Priscilla is super powerful, and she killed Teresa/Noel/Sophia alike easily, which is wrong and does not accurately describe what shown in the anime. I feel that I must edit it to make it more accurate. And I did.

Then what happened between me and User:King Zeal?

  • On 9 JAN 2008, I added more information to Teresa's section: "cheap shot", to make it more accurate and clear history here, and added the same to Priscilla's section: here. The comments "I hate this monster" is just a cute funny summary comment for the edit (did not write it in the article)
  • On 14 JAN 2008, User:King Zeal thinks that "cheap shot" is not "appropriate", and User:Twsl thinks it's "non-sense", so they reverted to the old inaccurate version: here and here
  • I compromised and removed to word "cheap shot", changing my edits to describe exactly what happened in the anime, but User:King Zeal just laughed at it and reverted: here I reverted him, asking if he actually watched the show?
  • On 24 JAN 2008 User:Twsl tried to call me a vandal, pretending that he's fighting vandalism: here Why adding facts to describe the subject more accurately is vandalism? So I told User:Twsl to stop labeling people who do not agree with him as vandal here. User:Twsl quickly changed his arguement to "it ain't neccessary" here
  • On 25 JAN 2008 I wanted to solve this funny edit war so , I stared a talk section and tell them to talk instead of starting an edit war: here User:Twsl dropped out of the talk shortly afterward. here. User:King Zeal continued to talk
  • But the talk is pointless. User:King Zeal keeps using one excuse after another to delete the word surprise attack, from "inappropriate" to "not important" to "unneccessary" to "Point of View" to "Original research". I say it's a fact, it's accurate, and it's important, User:King Zeal says "it's not". User:King Zeal said "you don't get to decide what's right and what's important". I said "same to you". In my POV, he was trying to delete accurate information so he is a vandal.
  • Meanwhile, on the article, I compromised again, and did not use the word "surprise attack" anymore. But User:King Zeal again reverted without any reasons here. Now there's nothing such as "cheap shot" or "surprise attack" in the article, but User:King Zeal still deleted it. Now he thinks that the word "only" is POV.
  • 26 JAN 2008. I compromised long ago and removed all the words that User:King Zeal does not agree, but he keeps reverting. The whole paragraph is about a past story, it was written in past tense for a long time, but User:King Zeal keep changing 2 lines of it to present tense: here
  • User:King Zeal keeps reverting anything I write, and keeps talking about how "only" is POV. here Then he secretly reported to admins, making me into a complete fool who keeps vandalisng the article (?) here. He even took my joke in my talkpage to attack me (?) and even said that I deleted comments from my talkpage because it's critical? Oh? Why should I want to delete them? Which comment on my talkpage did I try hide? I'll re-add them if you want, but wait, the rules allow it: Wikipedia:User page#Ownership and editing of_pages in the user space and here Wikipedia:Don't restore removed comments. If only I could know that someday someone would attack me just because I wanna keep my talkpage clean...
  • 28 JAN 2008, User:King Zeal cherry-picked one or two comments from the talk, created a new section, pretending that I am still adding "surprise attack" into the article. here First, "surprise attack" is an accurate fact. Second, I compromised and did not add "surprise attack" since 26 JAN 2008, but User:King Zeal somehow keep reverting for unknown reasons. Now he tried to make me look bad, and even reported such a minor conflict to admins.

Quick summary (evidences above):

  • I added the fact "surprise attack" into the article List of Claymore characters to describe the plot of the anime more accurately.
  • User:King Zeal does not agree with it, he kept reverting me. I opened a talk section to talk about it. Lots of talks, generally: "I don't agree with you" from both sides.
  • Day 26, I compromised and removed from the article all the facts that User:King Zeal does not agree (like "surprise attack"). So the dispute should have stopped.
  • But no, User:King Zeal keeps reverting anything I write for no reason. He even said that the word "only" is original research/POV. He said that "fiction should be written in present tense", and just keeps reverting me for no reason at all. Like here, here. But the whole article is mostly written in past tense, and he does not care.
  • Day 28, User:King Zeal reported me to admins, making me look like a bad, stupid user who keep vandalising. I assume that he took it personally? Because if it's about the article, the dispute should have been over since 26 JAN 2008 (I compromised), the only reason it continued it because User:King Zeal feel he must revert anything from me...

There's this sentence right in Teresa's section: "Teresa is a cold-blooded killer who cares for no one, only helping villages because she is ordered to, and taking pleasure in scaring humans". But User:King Zeal does not care about that. Instead, User:King Zeal thinks the word "only" in "releasing only 10% power" is POV. I guess it's just because I wrote that? Shrine Maiden (talk) 06:38, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Adminstrator Waggers and WP:AIV[edit]


This morning I had some free time and went on a WP:HUGGLE spree. I encountered Mmata3 (talk · contribs), a account that is obviously being used only to promote a travel website. I reported this to AIV. I received two template warnings from Waggers (talk · contribs) and an admonishment to "stop wasting our time" reporting spammers on AIV. Is this the sort of treatment that vandalism reverters usually receive from administrators working AIV? Do we actually require a notarized form filled out in triplicate for these sorts of blocks? If blocking vandals reported to AIV did not require sound administrative judgment, we could just write a bot to do it. ➪HiDrNick! 16:29, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Waggers (talk · contribs) told you the process that has to be followed before making AIV reports, namely giving new users final warnings (after hopefully giving them lower level warnings first). This is a well established process that most admins helping out on AIV follow. --NeilN talkcontribs 16:39, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
(EC) Please read the instructions at WP:AIV. Report vandalism by vandals who have edited after a final warning. It doesn't appear to me that Mmata3 had a full set of warnings, if any at all, at the time you made the report. LaraLove 16:40, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
You will notice that once I gave a final warning to the user, they stopped. The block was not needed, and if in the future it is needed then the final warning will justify immediate blocking. Though I will point out that an account that is only used for disruption can be blocked without warning, though that does not always mean one should. (1 == 2)Until 17:57, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Mmata3 (talk · contribs) was actually reported to AIV no less than three times (two of which were by HiDrNick (talk · contribs)) - at no stage had Mmata3 edited (let alone vandalised) past a final warning. HiDrNick (talk · contribs) also says that Mmata3's every edit was to promote a tourism site; this isn't true. While Mmata did add an inappropriate external link a few times, most of their edits were adding information to geographical articles, the only snag being that they were written very much in a promotional, not neutral, tone. In my view, where there's any doubt, the need to not bite the newcomers overrides the need to wield a banhammer every time. Waggers (talk) 09:25, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Attacks and potential BLP violation[edit]

Talk:Bosnian Mujahideen#Osli's Double Standard: Trifunovic vs. so called Bosnian Mujjahadeen. Could an administrator check over that and redact the page as appropriate? Please be aware that (talk · contribs · WHOIS) appears related to Dr Richard Johnstone (talk · contribs) (see Talk:Bosnian Mujahideen#I vote to delete this article). Thanks! Vassyana (talk) 22:08, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't see a BLP there enough for us to intervene - there's a multi-party, Bosnian/Serbian fight going on over allegations that a particular Serbian researcher (Trifunovic) is a genocide denier, more on Darko Trifunovic than anywhere else. Both sides are misbehaving - the question of what to do about it, and whether admins need to apply a boot, is an open one. I'm watching - more admins reviewing wouldn't hurt. Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 22:49, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Isn't calling someone a "Serbian propagandist activist who wrote lies" a BLP violation? Vassyana (talk) 16:32, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

A proposed bot (SquelchBot) to automatically revert the addition of certain external links[edit]

Resolved: resolved tag for script purposes

Please see Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/SquelchBot if you have comments. Thank you, Iamunknown 01:03, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

This bot is a replacement of Wikipedia:Bots/Requests for approval/Shadowbot which was approved and running since November 2006. Was later renamed User:AntiSpamBot. --Hu12 (talk) 07:08, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


Resolved: User indef blocked

Keep an eye on this guy -- his User page (User:CarencroJew) brags of vandalism. Corvus cornixtalk 03:42, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Gone. Nakon 03:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
He's back. Not resolved. Bstone (talk) 07:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Abuse reports/71.x.x.x[edit]

He's hopped through three IPs tonight to avoid block (currently using (talk · contribs)). Note that this vandal has accumulated 33 blocks in the last year, so I think all assumption of good faith is out the window. Maybe time for another range-block as he's carrying out retarded edit wars on multiple articles. Someguy1221 (talk) 06:13, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Note: He just changed IPs again and has blanked both this post and a relevant RFPP. Someguy1221 (talk) 06:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
And what range do you propose? At one point, even I was in the range. It's the entire Tampa Bay area with its 2+ million people. —Wknight94 (talk) 06:20, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Tampa bay? I thought it was just 65000 addresses in Virginia...Someguy1221 (talk) 06:21, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
No, it's most of the Verizon FIOS network in the Tampa Bay. —Wknight94 (talk) 06:23, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
See here: = Note the "tampfl" part of that hostname. —Wknight94 (talk) 06:25, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

(Indent reset) Too easy. Block 71.99.82.* for however long is necessary. Edit Centric (talk) 06:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

No, he can traverse too wide a range. I recently reset my router and wound up with a 72.x.x.x address! You need to protect whatever pages are targeted. —Wknight94 (talk) 06:34, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Now on (talk · contribs). You guys do whatever you want. Someguy1221 (talk) 06:34, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Let me back that one up a few steps. Now that I think about it, where in the IP schema is he jumping around? All over 71.*? Edit Centric (talk) 06:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
It's at least over 71.99.x.x. Like I said, if you hard-block that, you might even get me! Plus several other people I know of. Too wide a range. —Wknight94 (talk) 06:38, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
We could do an anon only rangeblock. That wouldn't get you are any other previously registered accounts. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 15:42, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I know but that's a lot of potential collateral damage over one guy that only vandalizes a few articles. We don't usually block because that covers the whole country of Qatar (actually now I see it has been blocked for three months!), but there are 3-4 times as many people in the Tampa Bay area as in Qatar. —Wknight94 (talk) 15:53, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
You can check the report. It lists every one of his IPs I've ever spotted. Someguy1221 (talk) 06:37, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
If you list the relevant articles, we can protect them. It only appears to be a few. —Wknight94 (talk) 06:39, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I think nat actually protected all of tonights targets, aside from my talk page (1 act of vandalism), AIV (two acts), and the handful here, though I'm not suggesting any of those be protected. I just hope that report of mine actually fulfills its purpose soon so we don't have to deal with him anymore. Someguy1221 (talk) 06:42, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Strike that a bit, please protect my talk page for a bit. Someguy1221 (talk) 06:43, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Now that IS troublesome! I tend to agree that the best solution is locking the targeted pages, given the wide IP range. (Wouldn't want wknight94 getting locked out because of some nimrod with nothing better to do...) Edit Centric (talk) 06:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
hey! watch you language! no personal attacks. take a brake, have a tea. (talk) 06:47, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
This user cracks me up. Enigmaman (talk) 06:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Possible language issue[edit]

Resolved: Article salted

Could I get an admin over at Talk:Overdrive/Preamp 250. AN IP is disputing a completed AfD and it appears to involve a possibel translation error on their part. MBisanz talk 06:32, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

the article has been SALTed. nat.utoronto 06:40, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
With no explanation of why it was salted. DuncanHill (talk) 06:42, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I believe it has been twice re-created after an AfD had closed as it being deleted. Also, it was an improper naming fork to use a slash subsection of Overdrive. Or do you mean that the IP address needs to have an explanation on its talk page? MBisanz talk 06:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
This quote may show a little spamy intent (and maybe a little dark magic trouble) behind this article: "If the person who has no right cause remove this article, he or she will earn judgement of hoodoo" not sure what's with that but the anon doesn't seem to get that this is the result of the AFD, perhaps someone should point him towards DRV? - Caribbean~H.Q. 06:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm wondering where that quote is from, is it a deleted page, as I'm not seeing any non-deleted contribs by the IP. MBisanz talk 06:55, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
That quote was added by Smallclone2 as a hidden comment to the article, when recreating it for a second or third time. - Caribbean~H.Q. 06:57, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Bizarre, too bad WP:NLT doesn't include a "No Religious Threats" subsection :) MBisanz talk 07:02, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Hey, arbcom says any threat of off-wiki action can be prohibited, so I'm sure they'd consider hexing a violation ;-) Someguy1221 (talk) 11:07, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

User removing comments from talk page[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Any chance someone can have a chat with Equazcion (talk · contribs), who's deemed it necessary to repeatedly remove comments [3] from an article talk page? The conversation in question is on-topic, especially compared to the average dialogue on that talk page. Thanks, Chaz Beckett 10:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

The stuff he removed amounted to nothing more than schoolyard bickering. He did the right thing in removing it. Raymond Arritt (talk) 11:06, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Since Chaz has restored those comments and I'm at my 3RR limit, could someone please remove them again, since Chaz is now unresponsive to me? Thanks. Equazcion /C 11:18, 29 Jan 2008 (UTC)
Not a revert, but this is enough [4]. — Save_Us 11:39, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
It's a contentious topic, most of what's discussed on the page can be considered "bickering" in some way or another. In the past Equazcion has strongly opposed even the archiving of discussions [5], yet here he's removing comments he doesn't agree with. I support the closing of the section by Save_Us, but I strongly disagree that Equazacion repeatedly removing comments from other users (stopping only when he was up against the 3RR) is the "right thing". Chaz Beckett 12:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Not to mention that Equazacion has made borderline personal attacks on my talk page [6], apparently deciding that I was unresponsive while I was away from my computer. I'm not looking for him to get blocked or anything, but I think it would set a terrible precedent for this type of behavior to be classified as the "right thing". I really don't want to go through the hassle of WP:DR, so would someone mind having a word with him. I don't consider this situation resolved at all. Chaz Beckett 12:55, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I'll recommend to all of you, stop social engineering your talk pages! I archive may page time to time when it gets to big. If I do something stupid people will know matter how clean I make it look. Now if someone wants to clean and shine their Ass, let them do it, and do not get upset but make a dif reference to what they are trying to hide. If we going to try to enforce each other to behave certain way to meet the policy, the etiquette, and the respect that we think we should get we might as well go home. If any of you are here because of AboutYou, go home. It is not even AboutUs, but AboutThem, the stop fighting and go edit some pages and have a good time. Igor Berger (talk) 13:01, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I have to say I'm not quite sure I understand this comment (or at least its relevance to the matter at hand). Chaz Beckett 13:03, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Chaz, he removed my comments also, so what just leave him alone. It is his talk page right? Igor Berger (talk) 13:07, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
No, it's an article talk page: WT:Spoiler. I wouldn't care at all if he removed comments from his talk page. Chaz Beckett 13:09, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Chaz, you continued replacing comments that didn't belong on the page, and even after I pointed you to the policy that defended my removal, you continued reverting me -- simply telling me to "stop" in your edit summaries and without giving any response on my talk page (I'm still waiting for one, by the way, as you can see). Igor, we're not talking about my talk page. I didn't remove any of Chaz's comments from there. Equazcion /C 13:08, 29 Jan 2008 (UTC)
I didn't respond because I wasn't at my computer (notice no edits from 10:50 - 12:49). Once you see that someone contests the removal of their comments, couldn't you get some other opinions before edit warring? Also you pointed out a section from an editing guideline, not a policy. I disagree that the comments were so off-topic that they required removal. Half of that talk page should be removed if that's the standard to be applied. Chaz Beckett 13:13, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Oaky so just talk to each other and learn to agree and repspect each other..:) Igor Berger (talk) 13:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Then feel free to remove anything else that doesn't belong. I tried to address you on your talk page, but you didn't respond and instead reverted me again. The argument I removed was regarding whether or not a comment was a personal attack. I pasted them on my talk page and continue to wait for your response as to what makes them relevant to WP:SPOILER. I can paste them here too if you like. Equazcion /C 13:17, 29 Jan 2008 (UTC)
I'm not letting the matter drop until there's some recognition that Equazacion's edit warring and personal attacks were inappropriate and not the "right thing" or something for which he should receive "props" [7]. Chaz Beckett 13:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
You edit warred just as much as I did. We each reverted 3 times. If you had a problem with my initial removal you should have addressed me on my talk page to begin with. You can't revert someone and then complain about edit warring when they revert you back. Equazcion /C 13:22, 29 Jan 2008 (UTC)
No, I don't feel that removing comments from article talk pages is helpful, except in the case of blatant vandalism or trolling. The conversation was on the spoiler template, which is on-topic for WT:SPOILER. Sure, it wasn't the most intellectual conversation I've ever had and I probably would have redacted my comments myself if asked. That doesn't mean I want someone else decided that my comments and those of others should be deleted. Chaz Beckett 13:24, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

(de-indent) In generel, article/wikipedia talk pages comments are not blank archived unless they are made by a trollish-editor, the comment itself is completely off-topic for the talk page or it is vandalism (or a possible fourth option for removing is for privacy). Regardless, the comments were unproductive and didn't need to be made, but they shouldn't be partially blank archived in the history since the discussion itself was on-topic enough. my suggestion would to take a time-out from each other and stop bickering over the usefulness of archiving or not. — Save_Us 13:24, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

to Chaz: The discussion was on-topic but the range of comments I removed were not. To Save Us: I'm happy to drop it, but Chaz doesn't seem to be interested in that. Equazcion /C 13:26, 29 Jan 2008 (UTC)

How about you guys learn how to refactor comments on article talk page, not delete them? Igor Berger (talk) 13:30, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
How about this, apologize for this comment and I'll let it drop. Chaz Beckett 13:30, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I hereby apologize if any of my comments offended you in any way. You could also apologize for saying "what don't you get about removing other peoples' comments" even after I pointed you to the guideline that says users can do precisely that in this situation, but I don't particularly care. So can we drop this now? Equazcion /C 13:35, 29 Jan 2008 (UTC)
That's a textbook non-apology, but I'll accept it as I'm tired of this dispute and have useful things to do. Chaz Beckett 13:47, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Unblock - January 29th[edit]

Resolved: Unblocked

The following blocked IP's were found to be not running Tor, or running tor with a no exit policy preventing open relaying. Regards, Mercury (talk) 11:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

List of IPs
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
  1. User:SQL/TORUser2
  2. User:SQL/TORUser2
  3. User:SQL/TORUser2
  4. User:SQL/TORUser2
  5. User:SQL/TORUser2
  6. User:SQL/TORUser2
  7. User:SQL/TORUser2
  8. User:SQL/TORUser2
  9. User:SQL/TORUser2
  10. User:SQL/TORUser2
  11. User:SQL/TORUser2
  12. User:SQL/TORUser2
  13. User:SQL/TORUser2
  14. User:SQL/TORUser2
  15. User:SQL/TORUser2
  16. User:SQL/TORUser2
  17. User:SQL/TORUser2
  18. User:SQL/TORUser2
  19. User:SQL/TORUser2
  20. User:SQL/TORUser2
  21. User:SQL/TORUser2
  22. User:SQL/TORUser2
  23. User:SQL/TORUser2
  24. User:SQL/TORUser2
  25. User:SQL/TORUser2
 Done If you're going to be doing this every day, consider putting the date in the section header to avoid multiple sections with the same title. All the IP talk pages need {{blockedproxy}} removing. Neıl 12:01, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
 Done Finished removing the templates from the talk pages. — Save_Us 12:36, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Francis pullen[edit]

Resolved: Storm in a teacup

The above-referenced user was created solely for the purpose of creating a namesake article in what is manifestly WP:COI (see [8], [9]).

He/she brazenly and arrogantly used the same username, with no attempt to even make an effort at positively contributing to Wikipedia and evidently has no other contributions to make. Should be expelled from Wikipedia. (talk) 13:39, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I do not think that would help, and would refer this IP user to policy. The username, although indicating a possible conflict of interest, is not offensive so as to fall within the guideline here, but may be confusing or misleading. I will be watching for future developments. Thanks. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 13:48, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Threats/Pure Hostility[edit]

Resolved: Blocked

Woke up this morning to find these gems in my history...[10] and [11]. More importantly, I noticed that after the first one, he was given a "last" warning...and proceeded to make some vague threat against my (nonexistent) children...He also left this one a few days ago on Spartaz's talk page. --SmashvilleBONK! 14:11, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Blocked for 24 hours. Kwsn (Ni!) 14:59, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Stalkerbuster (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)[edit]


Anybody have any idea what's going on with Stalkerbuster (talk · contribs)? The contributions seem a bit odd; they only include blanking two pages in the userspace of Jeff G. (talk · contribs): User:Jeff G./sockproblems and User:Jeff G./Tweety21 CS-Archive‎. Hope someone else is familiar with this, because I'm at a loss. Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 16:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Looks like User:Tweety21 visited the hosiery department again. Tony Fox (arf!) 16:58, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, looks like you're right. Blocked for abusing sock puppet accounts. Ioeth (talk contribs friendly) 17:09, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Nikkul on Poverty in India[edit]

Resolved: Content dispute
This discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Poverty is more common in rural areas of India. Shown here are homes of farmers living below the poverty line in Maharashtra
A beggar in Bodhgaya.

I found no way other than coming here. User:Nikkul is continuously adding an image of homes in rural India with a caption "Low income homes in rural India". His edits are going too much problematic.

  • First, in rural India, homes like these are quite common, and in rural India, per capita income is relatively low than in urban India. An image in a article for poverty should depict the subject very well. But farmer's homes are not well representative of Poverty.

This user is also removing the begger image wikilawyering this image is WP:UNDUE. This is blatant wikilawyering and excuse. In India, many poor homeless beggers live like this, and there is no wikipedia rule that an image of a begger cannot be included in an article. He is continuously reverting my edits, no intention in engaging in a fruitful argument in constructive manner. Dispute resolution is not posiible with this editor. I think an experienced editor or administrator should look into the matter. I am getting tired with this user's disruptive edits. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 09:56, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

From memory I seem to believe that there is no Wikipedia rule that determines that an image of a Manatee cannot be used in article space, either... Of course, context is everything. "Low income housing" (besides being a recent Western concept) may not necessarily indicate that poverty (or "trans or sub subsistence income") exists in an area - although economic weakness may make it more likely should incomes be reduced even by a small margin. Also, as suggested, a traditional low cost building does not mean that the locality is economically depressed, it may simply mean that semi permanent dwellings are not considered as essential as to another culture.
Begging, outside of religious/cultural practice in the sub-continent, is an obvious sign of poverty, however. It is indicative of a lack of employment opportunities (if the begger is otherwise fit) and also of a welfare provision where the begger is not capable of work which are strong indicators of poverty.
I will comment on Nikkul's talkpage, noting this discussion. LessHeard vanU (talk) 10:51, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Why is dispute resolution not possible? I see no recent edits from you to either the aritcle talk page or to Nikkul's talk page. When you find yourself arguing against a policy, ANI is usually not the first place to try. The inability to resolve disputes with a particular user is generally established by precedence. Someguy1221 (talk) 10:58, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
I suppose edit warring, for that is what it appears to be, is a matter for admin input? Anyway, I have left a message at the users talkpage. Hopefully both parties can now move forward. LessHeard vanU (talk) 11:02, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Well I'm just saying, ANI isn't the first step in dispute resolution, and one shouldn't assume it won't work before one has tried. But yes, it will hopefully take care of itself now :-) Someguy1221 (talk) 11:11, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

The reason this user is giving in removing the begger image is "all beggars do not have messed up legs, this image is undue". This is ridiculas argument and apllying WP:UNDUE here is blatant wikilawyering. Many beggers have no eyes, many beggers cannot see, many beggers have no arms, amny beggers cannot walk steadily. This is the reality, the truth, it is not right to conceal it. On the other hand many beggers are physically fit. So how to judge a begger image? This begger image is right, this begger image in not right? Many beggers, as I have told earlier, forced in this profession due to utter lack of livelihood, and live more worse condition than depicted here. So placing this image is completely appropriate, using the above argumant this user is applying is ridiculas and certainly POV pushing. This user's only job in wikipedia is bigging up the India articles by placing nice touristy pictures and removing "negative material" which he is doing here.

  • This user is mixing "low income" with "poverty". "Poverty" is defined as "condition of lacking full economic access to fundamental human needs such as food, shelter and safe drinking water". Low income houses, the farmer's houses are not representative for what "poverty" stands. In wikipedia, we cannot place an image of a farmer, or a farmer's house when depicting poverty. I think in an article, which completely describing poverty, only those images should be given which are well-indicative to the subject. And by that, the begger image is terribly appropriate in the article. I hope after LessHeard vanU's message on this user's talk page, this user will not disrupt the article again. But if he continue his disruptive edits, I may need help from other editors. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 11:53, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Nikkul, while an excellent source of images, proves problematic in the extreme about their use. For those wondering why DR isn't tried, I suggest a look at the Talk:India archives. Relata refero (talk) 13:45, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

First,I would like to say that Otolemur crassicaudatus did not ask me to discuss this on the talk page. He also did not leave me a note telling me that this discussion was going on. This is another attempt by him to block me. He has tried to delete my userpage because I said "Being an American is priceless"

  • User Otolemur crassicaudatus keeps deleting my contributions without giving a good reason as to why. Any edit that i have made to this page or another is always reverted by him. This is getting tiring for me and is hindering my efforts on Wiki.
  • Poverty in India is mostly rural. Most people who live under the poverty line live in rural places. No other picture on the povetry in India page shows rural poverty which dominates over urban poverty. The picture of homes represents poverty in rural India, because these homes are where poor farmers live. I have travelled in poor parts of India and I know firsthand that these homes house people under the poverty line. Not having an image of rural poverty is wp:undue since all the images show urban poverty which is only a fraction of poverty in India.
  • I have explained this many times to Otolemur crassicaudatus but he still keeps removing my image with an excuse that "no place is mentioned"
  • The beggar in Bodhgaya image does not accurately depict poor people in India because they do not look like this. This man is an exception To say that this man represents all poor people in India is very wrong. A small minority of Indias poor are disabled. Most work long hours fishing, farming or as construction workers or beggars. This picture shows a man whose legs have been broken. Unless a majority of indias poor have legs like this, the image is irrelevant and undue to the poverty in india page.
  • This is just another attempt by Otolemur crassicaudatus to make India look bad. This user bears a strong hatred towards India and would like to deride the country as much as he can. Before, he has tried inserting an image of beggars washing their clothes in a puddle in the economy section of the India article which is featured. He still kept doing this even when I told him that the image represents the poorest of the poor in India and that every country has poor people, but most do not show an image of the dirt poor on their economy sections.
  • Because the beggar in Bodhgaya image doesnot show the truth of Indias poor, andbecause user:otolemur insists on having a beggar image,i haveuploaded Image:India poor.jpg which is more representative of beggars in India rather than a man with broken legs
  • Also, when I say low income housing, i do not mean housing for the lower class. I should have made it clear that these homes are of poor farmers who live below the poverty line. Hence, the image is appropriate for the page. It also shows rural poverty which is significantly greater than urban poverty

Nikkul (talk) 21:10, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Many beggers have various disabilities. It is a blatant excuse by a POV editor.
  • Any mention of "negative aspect" of India is attempt to make India bad by this user.
  • The farmer image is not indicative to poverty. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 21:35, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
  • This is a content dispute. Please take it to the article or your own talkpages, or pursue Dispute Resolution. I would suggest that the rhetoric is toned down also, assuming bad faith does not help the encyclopedia. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:00, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
I actually think Nikkul has a reasonable point here, to be honest. It seems that WP:UNDUE is being violated by use of an unrepresentative or overly polarising image in the context in which it is being used (the image could be used in several other contexts without any problems). I suggest that the users try to resolve their problems at the article talk page and assume good faith - both editors do wish to improve the article, that's obvious by the above, but just have starkly different ideas about how to do it. Orderinchaos 22:54, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
Nikkul's image is much more relevant than a handpicked photo of a beggar. Beggars in India need not be poor, while slums are the home of the poor. OC's edits indicate a pattern of Indophobia that Nikkul has brought to light.Bakaman 00:34, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Bakasuprman, every single statement of yours like this is only going to make the next ArbCom workshop longer. Stop it now. Relata refero (talk) 06:30, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure what this has to do with OC/Nikkul. However, I doubt arbcom will look down upon upholding WP:RS. Trolling on ANI will of course make any arbcom workshop page interesting, as would the not-so-covert veiled threats you seem to be making.Bakaman 21:20, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
What threats? (And how can they be not-so-covert and veiled at the same time?) And I'm here in response to a request on my talkpage, so that's hardly trolling. And what this has to do with OC/Nikkul is that you poison the atmosphere with words like "Indophobia". Which is what I am reminding you to stop. Relata refero (talk) 07:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
And similarly low-income housing is sometimes misused (by putting it on rent by those who supposedly need it). The fact is that vast majority of beggars are poor. Also, you allegations of Indophobia, as a way to solve disputes, are a violation of WP:CIVIL.Bless sins (talk) 00:40, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
There is nothing incivil about calling a spade a spade. I pointed out that his edits, indicate a pattern of Indophobia. Incidentally, wikistalking is a clear violation of policy, unlike spurious allegations of incivility. Nikkul's image is much more germane to the situation, and OC's forum-shopping does little but to exhaust the time and patience of more productive editors.Bakaman 01:06, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
I found the beggar's image on the Begging article. I removed it since there already was a representative for India. Perhaps this is related to this incident--Lenticel (talk) 01:30, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I have worked signifiantly with Indias poor. I have travelled in rural maharashtra and given firsthand help to people under the povety line. I have also worked in urban slums. Last time I was involved with a project, it was in Worli, Mumbai. I established a school for slum children. The teacher we hired were from the slums. They were paid 200 rupees per month (less than a dollar a day) to teach slum children. After a month of volunteering, I was invited into one of the teachers homes. I was surprised to see that though she lived below the poverty line and though she lived in the slums, she had a color TV, a stereo player, an sofa, electricity, and running water. The point im trying to make is that India's poor do not have broken legs and most are not beggars. Of those who are beggars, they surely do not look like that man in Bodhagya.

User:OC's excuse is "Many beggers have various disabilities. It is a blatant excuse by a POV editor." which really is not the case.

This user is being very uncooperative. He removed my pic of rural poor homes and so i asked him to please not insert the beggar image until this dispute is resolved.He has reinserted that image again.[12] He has continued to edit war even when I asked him to hold off on the image and I told him that I wouldnot insert my image until the dispute was resolved. Nikkul (talk) 03:11, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

If you think Mumbai is representative in any way, you have a problem. Relata refero (talk) 06:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
The image of the beggar is relevant to the article and should remain. The image is relevant to text and gives a clear description of what poverty in India (at its most extreme) is like, especially to those unfamiliar with the subject of poverty in that country. I don’t think the picture of rural homes in the countryside really portrays poverty at its most extreme. The photo in question looks more like and old country town in a rural setting where the inhabitants would not be rich or to poor, but would be able to support themselves by living off their own crops and lives stock and fend for themselves by living off their own land, unlike the poor beggar with broken legs begging in the streets to make a living. To someone unfamiliar with the subject this picture does not portray poverty but a rural lifestyle.

The user in question seems to have a bad habit of wanting to get his photos into articles regardless of relevance or quality. Cheers_Ad@m.J.W.C. (talk) 03:53, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Nikkul, whether you find the image offensive, or not in accordance with your work with beggars, that is not relevant. Some time ago there was a huge debate about whether to have a picture of prophet Muhammad, or whehter to have the Jyllands posten cartoons. The result in both cases was that though the image may be false, it'll still be included because wikipedia is not censored. If you have a copyright related objection, then by all means, remove the image.Bless sins (talk) 04:00, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

I believe that both pictures should be included. Only adding the beggar would make the article look like a Human zoo as if all poor Indians look like him. On the other hand, retaining the houses alone would seem to tell us that the poor of India are rather well off (although the accompanying pictures seems to balance this).

Besides I don't think that OC is knowledgeable or familiar with poverty. Last time I encountered him, s/he called tuberculosis as a non-serious disease.--Lenticel (talk) 05:02, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

  • I am not opposed to having a pic of a beggar because it does represent poverty
  • I AM opposed to having that image of the beggar because it really does not represent beggars in India or in general
  • Just like a terrorist does not represent the people of Pakistan, this image does not represent beggars. A beggar with such deformations is an exception.
  • I have uploaded an image (Image:India poor.jpg) which shows what most beggars look like. I think this picture is more relevant and more appropriate.

I also think that the rural homes image is important because

  • Almost all of India's poor live in the rural areas
  • Most of India's rural population is involved in the agricultral industry
  • Most of Indias poor farm for a living and live in homes like these
  • I have been in these homes and I know that these people live on less than a dollar a day
  • There is no image of rural poverty on the page But MOST of the poverty in India is Rural Nikkul (talk) 05:56, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Your comparison is unfair. If you included a picture of a terrorist, in article called "Pakistani terrorists", that'd be ok. We are not including a picture of a beggar in "India", but rather "Poverty in India". I agree both images should be included.Bless sins (talk) 06:05, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Another problem we have here is "he said, she said" (figuratively speaking). Nikkul speaks from his/her personal experience. While I respect his/her personal experience, I don't think it holds a lot of credibility on wikipedia. I
One problem I do see with the image this: how do we know this beggar is in India? He could be in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Sri Lanka etc.Bless sins (talk) 06:08, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Have a look at these images [13], [14], [15], [16], [17], [18]. I think this begger in Bodhgaya is much "wealthier" than the others. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 11:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Has nobody thought of the possibility of using an image showing an intermediate situation between the two shown above, both of which do seem a little pointy in this context ?DGG (talk) 16:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

The Bodhgaya beggar image is appropriate here. The only reason given for its deletion is "this is not typical beggar". This is a fallacious and anti-Individualistic argument. Adam.J.W.C. has given a good argument that "the image is relevant to text and gives a clear description of what poverty in India (at its most extreme) is like". Many poor people have television in their home. Will it be right to include an image of a television set from a home of poor people with a caption "Shown here a television in a poor home. X% poor people of Y country has low price television like this". Will it be appropriate?

  • The farmers home, yes it is true that rural area has low per capita income. But this is typical in all countries, per capita income is generally low in rural ares than urban ares. In an article whcih is depicting poverty only, only those images should be given which illustrate "lacking full economic access to fundamental human needs such as food, shelter and safe drinking water". The image is showing rural situation, rural lifestyle. Many Sadhus in India do not have high income, in that sense an image of a Sadhu also can be included in the article. But it is not going to build a good article. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 16:46, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
  • If the houses pictured are actually the homes of poverty stricken people in India and a significant proportion of poverty stricken people in India live in similar homes, then it is probably a useful addition to the article as an illustration of living conditions. In terms of whether to use the picture or not, the question of whether similar (or identical) houses are also owned by people who are not poverty stricken is irrelevent(although it that should probably be mentioned in the article). Guest9999 (talk) 17:14, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Man husking rice by throwing it into the air.

The imege shown here is also rural image, is also showing poverty. But will this image appropriate in an article for poverty with a caption "Poor man in rural India husking rice"? In the same sense, the farmer's home image is also inappropriate. Otolemur crassicaudatus (talk) 17:43, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Look, this user is not making any sense. His arguements are pointless and unsourced. All I am saying is that:

  • Just like color of skin does not indicate poverty, a disability does not indicate poverty either.
  • Almost all of Indias poverty is rural. Almost all of Indias poor are farmers. This user keeps deleting the only image of rural poverty Nikkul (talk) 21:54, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
ANI isn't the place to have conversations about content, only about user behaviour that requires admin intervention. Take it to RfC or mediation, unless OC can come up with other examples of Nikkul being problematic. Relata refero (talk) 07:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
AN/I is not dispute resolution[edit]

What you are looking for is outlined at the dispute resolution page - a third opinion, an RfC, or mediation. Administrators are not content experts necessarily, and it doesn't appear that evidence is presented here of activity requiring administrator intervention. If there is such activity, please present diffs below in a concise manner. Avruchtalk 17:21, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Thank you. Nikkul (talk) 20:26, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

There has been an ongoing content dispute over several articles involving Russia, Putin, the Russian Orthodox Church, etc., with this user and User:Biophys on one side and User:Frjohnwhiteford on the other. For the most part, this is of no interest to ANI. However, the narrow issue of uncivil personal attacks by Muscovite99 against Frjohnwhiteford may need to be addressed. The relevant info is summarised in this RfC/U, on which I have made the only uninvolved comment. Note that, of the five diffs listed under "Evidence of disputed behavior", the final two took place after I made my comment at the RfC/U. It thus seems that Muscovite99 is aware of what he's doing and has no intention of changing his behavior, and a short block (which I have no authority to enact) might be appropriate. --BlueMoonlet (t/c) 01:35, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Muscovite99 was engaged in personal attacks not only to Frjohnwhiteford, but attacked other editors as well. See: for more details. This is not a dispute between two editors, Muscovite99 and Frjohnwhiteford, but a dispute between Muscovite99 on one hand and other editors on the other. Cfeet77 (talk) 11:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
The case about User:Frjohnwhiteford has been at WP:COI noticeboard. Can anyone review if it was properly resolved? See [19]. User:Muscovite99 is a newcomer (less than 700 edits). I do not know if he was really uncivil, but no one issued any civility warnings at his talk page.Biophys (talk) 03:22, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
He was issued numerous warnings on the talk pages in which he engaged in the attacks, and he responded with more. The RfC was posted on his talk page, and he has engaged in at least two additional attacks. Claiming that he is a newbie (which is questionable, given his pre-existence in Russian Wikipedia, where he has engaged in the same behavior) cannot possibly hold any water at this point. Frjohnwhiteford (talk) 12:23, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Muscovite99 is not a newcomer in WP. He has over 5000 edits in Russian WP and numerous warnings on his talk page there. Cfeet77 (talk) 11:58, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
The WP:COI/N thread ended in a consensus that Frjohnwhiteford has no serious COI. But that is not relevant to the issue at hand here, which is Muscovite99's incivility. He has 17,000 edits at Russian Wikipedia, so the newbie defense is limited in its utility. He has persisted in his behavior despite warnings. If not a block, then I think we need at least a stern warning from someone who can back up their words with action. --BlueMoonlet (t/c) 12:32, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Do I see WP:WEIGHT problem towards User:Muscovite99. If he is right or wrong we should give him WP:AGF we can always hang him later..:) Igor Berger (talk) 12:53, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
The issue here is not the content dispute, but civility. --BlueMoonlet (t/c) 14:01, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Please see WP:COI noticeboard[20]. User:Frjohnwhiteford is a Russian Orthodox priest who was involved in several Orthodoxy-related disputes with users Martintg, Malick78, Muscovite99, and me. I believe it is he who creates the problems rather than all others. User Jeepday tried to mediate the dispute between Frjohnwhiteford and me, apparently without much success [21]. Singling out Muscovite99 would be unfair.Biophys (talk) 16:55, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
If any warnings to be issued, one should also warn User:Frjohnwhiteford who was making bad faith accusations [22].Biophys (talk) 17:05, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree that Frjohn was out of line in accusing you of bad faith on that occasion, but it was a single incident. --BlueMoonlet (t/c) 18:48, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes, by all means read the COI/N thread all the way to the end, if you want some context as to the dispute underlying the incivility. There is also this. However, Muscovite99 is being singled out because only he has made sustained personal attacks. It would be nice to have an admin give an opinion on this. --BlueMoonlet (t/c) 18:48, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
Also refer to Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Muscovite99.--Addhoc (talk) 18:52, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Here are the links:

Avruchtalk 22:24, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

(Adding comment from RFC/U discussion section with diffs embedded) Avruchtalk 22:26, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

Muscovite99 continued to engage in personal attacks after being warned to stick to the issues. Accuses several users of vandalism including an administrator [30]. User accuses others of vandalism and violating WP:NPOV when only he a persistent history of being warned for violating WP:NPOV on the said (Vladimir Putin) article [31] [32] [33] has been blocked for violating the 3RR on that article [34].--Miyokan (talk) 13:34, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

All links by Avruch are copied from a old RfC above. All links by Miykan are edits by other users, not by Muscovite99. The links are very old. Nothing is going on right now... Biophys (talk) 05:10, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
These pertinent diffs establish that Muscovite has a extended history of disruptive editing and ignoring warnings, giving context to his most recent uncivil attacks of Frjohn despite being warned. This most recent attack - Talking to you i am beginning to understand why the whole world hates americans: it is one thing to be just an idiot but an idiot who teaches others and intrudes into other people's affairs is the whole different kettle of fish - is truly disgraceful, taking place after warnings were made at RfC/U. It thus seems that Muscovite99 is aware of what he's doing and has no intention of changing his behavior.--Miyokan (talk) 11:57, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
No, that was before RfC and long time ago. Such case should be handled by issuing a warning to a WP newcomer with less than 700 edits here (per "WP:do not bite newcomers"). The problem has been already addressed by filing an RfC about this user. No one is going to investigate what he (or someone else with the same name) was doing in Russian WP, since this is hardly related to English WP.Biophys (talk) 16:21, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
These two diffs post-date the RfC. I think I remember seeing M99 acknowledge being the same person as the identically-named user on Russian WP, but I don't have the diff now. In any case, very little that is new is being said here. Admins should have enough information to decide whether a block, a clear warning of consequences (my preference), or no action is appropriate. --BlueMoonlet (t/c) 18:04, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
The purpose of WP:ANI is not to "punish" users, but to prevent an ongoing and significant distraction. I did not see any serious problems during last 24 hours or more. If you want to punish this user, you should ask ArbCom.Biophys (talk) 21:02, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
The purpose of ANI, as its name indicates, is to notify admins of incidents that require their attention. Preventing an ongoing disruption was in fact why I initiated this thread, only 13 hours after the most recent personal attack. If M99 has behaved himself since that time, then good. There is no talk here of punishing, and no need for Arbcom. This is a simple case of personal attacks that, IMO, merited at least a warning from an admin. Unless an admin comes along and expresses interest in looking into this, I see no point in further conversation here. --BlueMoonlet (t/c) 21:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.
AN/I is not dispute resolution[edit]

Looking at the above, including the links I reposted from the RfC for convenience, there doesn't seem to be any evidence of recent violations of policy requiring administrator action. If such activity has occurred, please place diffs below in a concise manner that administrators can react to. Otherwise, the RfC that you have already begun should be the right step at this point to address the above concerns. Avruchtalk 21:55, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Users:;;;;; and[edit]


Repeated vandalism on the Chinese zodiac pages and deliberately editing inaccurate compatibility data on each page (Rat, Rooster, Tiger, Rabbit, etc.). These IPs are supposedly done by the same user. IPs never bothered citing their sources of inaccuracies with Zodiac pages and attempted to blank their own talk pages. Request that said IPs get blocked and banned from further edits.Dibol (talk) 07:37, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Is someone going to follow up on it or not?Dibol (talk) 21:01, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


Banning IPs isn't gonna happen...and you adding a blocked template to the IPs' talk pages doesn't actually block them...In the future, Dibol, please follow the procedures laid out in Wikipedia:Vandalism--apply warnings and, when appropriate, report the editor(s) to Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism. Since the addresses you have listed here have generally been inactive for a while, they won't be blocked. I will leave a warning for — Scientizzle 00:26, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Yamashita's gold[edit]

User:JimBobUSA is engaging in non-consensual deletion of referenced material from this article.

This is in spite of prolonged and torturous discussion of the above matters at the talk page. He frequently engages in wikilawyering, by making false accusations of breaches of policy, and/or asking for references, when they exist already or are not required. I recently refused to discuss the article with him any further, because appeals to WP policy, reason, compromise and consensus seem to carry no weight with User:JimBobUSA.

He has attempted to delete referenced material in two instances over the last few days. One attempt was reverted by User:Flying tiger.

Since then he has taken to removing another entire paragraph, which is also referenced.

I think a simple warning to the effect that he must:

  • respect credible sources
  • not delete referenced material

...might do the trick. Thanks.

Grant | Talk 08:49, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

No, this is a content dispute for which the sources have been meaningfully challenged. If you can't arrive at a consensus, seek dispute resolution, with appropriate warnings to avoid violating 3RR. Someguy1221 (talk) 09:01, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Agree with Someguy. Grant, please take a deep breath and engage with the valid criticisms raised. Guy (Help!) 09:55, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

If you looked carefully at the entire discussion on Talk:Yamashita's gold, you would see that User:JimBobUSA has ignored my suggestions of formal dispute resolution. I find it interesting that we are now supporting the deletion of material from not one but two different reputable sources in one article. Anyway, I don't have time for this. I withdraw the "incident". Grant | Talk 10:18, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

  • I did look at it. You appear to be reverting more than just JimBob. Me, for example. Guy (Help!) 14:47, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I've looked at it too, and weighed in on the talk page. Meanwhile, Grant62 appears to have left the project after four years thanks to this response. Relata refero (talk) 15:55, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
He says he's taking a Wikibreak, not leaving. Neıl 16:30, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
On the article talkpage he says he's "out of here". I do think we shouldn't be sending away long-term contributors to diverse areas by being aggressive and/or accusing them of ownership, especially of articles that attract trolling. Relata refero (talk) 17:30, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
If he can't stand the heat... John Reaves 18:56, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
...then we should try turning the thermostat down. Relata refero (talk) 19:18, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm all for reducing the stress on people single-handedly resisting relentless POV-pushing, but that's not what's happening here, I think. It's a pretty minor article, and a pretty minor conspiracy theory. It really does need much better and more diverse sourcing. Guy (Help!) 23:29, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
No doubt. Minor articles, however, rarely have sufficiently diverse sourcing; that is because they tend to be about minor subjects. My point remains that a heavy-handed response to a long-running dispute - a slow edit war from late November - resulted in someone choosing to leave. Relata refero (talk) 06:10, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Hu12 and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/War of Empires[edit]

In the ongoing AfD located at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/War of Empires, Hu12 has twice edited out portions of debate relevant to the discussion. I reverted the first via WP:UNDO, then Hu12 took them back out. Hu12 left a note on my talk page, claiming:

Refactoring is a form of editing whose goal is to improve readability while preserving meaning. Discussions which are general and unrelated directly to and not in response to Keep or delete !votes are better served on the talk page. This is acceptable in order to retain consistency. thanks--Hu12 (talk) 21:40, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Except in this case, the debate was directly relevant to the good faith effort on the part of the article creators, and their attempt to keep the article. I should note that as the nominator of the article in question, it is entirely inappropriate for Hu12 to "refactor" the supporting arguments, leaving four Delete !votes. I am led to believe that Hu12 is attempting to skew the debate by hiding the debate on the Talk page.

It should be noted that this "refactoring" would be considered discussion page vandalism anywhere else in Wikipedia, ({{uw-tpv2}}), I do not understand why it would be permissible within AfD -- RoninBK T C 10:04, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

(didn't realize the above was all posted by the same person, re-factoring and moving my own comment to the bottom) I agree that, as the nominator of the AfD no-one should be moving other people's comments in that manner. Hu12 should revert his/her edit. Thanks, R. Baley (talk) 10:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
AFD is not a vote. Removal of discussion that makes it look more like a vote should be avoided. Kusma (talk) 11:02, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
The comment of mine above was reposted here from Roninbk's usertalk. I brought this to Afd merely as a contested prod removed by an Anon IP [35]. My opinion was formed after further review. Here is the AFD prior to moving the anon discussions to the talk page. If there were !Keep votes those would have been left on the main as would any replies directly related to !votes. There is no malevolent adjenda, nor was I conspiring with the Forces of Darkness. The large chunks of discussions which were general and unrelated directly to and not in response to Keep or delete !votes were moved to the discussion page. I can see how this could be mischaracterize to seem unreasonable or improper, however my actions were in good faith.--Hu12 (talk) 11:47, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
The gist of the discussion you removed was "please keep". Please at least note on the AFD when you remove discussion like that. Kusma (talk) 12:42, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
My remaining question is why is this kind of refactoring considered to be an acceptable practice on AfD? Hu12 is not the first person that I've seen attempt to edit out comments like this recently. According to WP:REFACTOR, it's one thing to correct indentation and formatting, it's another thing completely to redact whole paragraphs. Where is this trend coming from? -- RoninBK T C 13:13, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
If its general argumentation between editors/off topic/not constructive towards the object of the AfD, then it is not unusual for comments to be moved to the talk page for clarity of the main page. This generally occurrs only in AfDs with long paragraphs of comments from multiple people where following the actual AfD discussion becomes difficult. Avruchtalk 15:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Such moves should of course be done by someone who is totally uninvolved in the actual issue being discussed. For someone who is doing it who is actually involved in the debate and removing arguments that oppose his own, is clear disruption. Although I have not been involved in the discussion of this article, I have been in other similar discussions--so I leave it to some other admin to restore the material and propose sanctions. DGG (talk) 19:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[edit]

Resolved: Stale

Above IP vandalised after final warning. --Gp75motorsports REV LIMITER 13:39, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

a) that goes to WP:AIV, and b) you're topic-banned from posting in Wikipedia: namespace. Equazcion /C 13:40, 29 Jan 2008 (UTC)
The IP appears to have been blocked twelve hours ago by Mr.Z-man. Topic ban aside, the report looks to be stale. UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 13:45, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
WP:AIV is in the Wikipedia namespace as well, so if the user is indeed topic-banned from all WP namespace pages, perhaps that topic ban needs to be rethought to at least allow for vandalism reporting. Natalie (talk) 01:36, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Florentino floro[edit]

Please check out Florentino floro (talk · contribs)'s contrib. I believe the editor has been acting in good faith, but has ended up adding a large number of irrelevant external links (need I say "spamming articles"). Sometimes it's in the form of a sentence or two blurb summarizing a recent news story, and sometimes it's just an external link to a news story. The main site being linked to is "". Also, these links (or 2 sentence blurbs) are often being copied on multiple articles. I just a) wanted to run it by other editors to make sure that linking to the most recent news story on a given topic from a non-notable news cite isn't generally a good practice and b) ask for help in going through the edit history (and reverting where necessary), because it is quite extensive. What I imagine is going on is Florentino floro checks his favorite news cite every day, and adds links to wikipedia articles which are discussed in the news. While I can imagine some instances of this being ok, I think as a general practice, this should be avoided. Do others agree? -Andrew c [talk] 15:43, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Perhaps you could start a thread in WP:PINOY where both him and I are members. Mind you that is owned by one of the largest news networks in the Philippines so it is not non-notable. I have encountered the user a lot of times and I believe he is generally too enthusiastic in editing the Wiki, I think he is just slow to change but changes nonetheless. I also advised him to edit on Wikinews as his style is better suited there than here.---Lenticel (talk) 01:04, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

His style of editing leaves something to be desired but it is generally helpful rather than destructive. At the very least, he mostly adds relevant material that can be later edited into better prose in the articles. --seav (talk) 02:03, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

User:Twsl's behaviors[edit]

  1. 28 January 2008, 16:08 - Deleted an image from an article, writing "fix" [36]
  2. 28 January 2008, 16:11 - Very quickly afterward added an "orphaned" tag to delete the image [37]
  3. 29 January 2008, 12:46 - Reverted to delete the image again, writing "fix" [38]
  4. 29 January 2008, 13:07 - Deleted a good chunk of a talkpage [39]
  5. 29 January 2008, 13:08 - 2nd revert. No reason given [40]
  6. 29 January 2008, 13:16 - Added an "orphaned" tag again [41]
  7. 29 January 2008, 13:22 - 3rd revert. [42]
  8. 29 January 2008, 14:22 - 4th revert. [43]

Does he need a little warning or something, please? (talk) 16:07, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I gave him a three-revert rule warning. Technically, he could be blocked for having made four reverts. He also claims that the deletion of talk page comments was inadvertent. I'm not sure it's really a mistake, so if any other admins want to investigate, feel free. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 16:19, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
  1. Deleted a comment about image, saying "blah" [44]
  2. Deleted the last warning pretty quickly :) [45] (talk) 16:40, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
For me, there is no reason to keep those warnings after i've read them. You can also see that I wrote: "noted". Meaning that I understood what Elkman said. Thanks. Twsl (talk) 16:54, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Yup. Deleting warnings is allowed, and even good, because it shows that the user has seen them. Jehochman Talk 18:32, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Oh, sure the editor might have seen them, but does not learn anything from them and continues to edit the way they have all along, like this Hashmi, Usman who just keeps removing deletion tags too but continues to add non-notable articles and categories, and ignores anyone who makes constructive suggestions to him without any discussion seemingly possible. Twsl is likely the same type but there is little we can do to get through to such people and hope their edits are reviewed. ww2censor (talk) 18:43, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Wow, that's some great style you have there. :) Comparing me with someone else, while you don't even know me, or even bothered to look at my history to see things that I did to actually try to improve articles. And here you are, bragging about your knowledge of bad people and because of your experience calling me one of "those types" as well. :) Seriously, please post your frustrations somewhere else please. This part is about me and things that I did wrong. The talkpage-removal thing was said to be allowed, so it isn't an issue. Period. Don't try to debate here whether it should be allowed or not. There are other places where you can do that. Thank you. Twsl (talk) 19:12, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Also. I deleted that tag because that fair use rationale was fixed. So the warning became invalid. If you bothered to investigate this matter a little bit you would have known. Instead of come here and act almighty :). Twsl (talk) 19:18, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Sorry if you are offended, but I don't "act almighty", nor do I brag about my knowledge of bad people. Those are your inferences. Yes I did look at your history and to my way of thinking I suggested that you could "likely" be similar in type to the example I gave, I did not say you 'were one of "those types"; again that was your inference. Yes, indeed I agree that deletion tag removal is allowed on user talk pages, so please do not infer more than is in the words I wrote. You obviously had good reasoning to make the deletions you did but there are others around who unfortunately don't learn anything from discussion of such topics, even one-on-one on their talk pages. ww2censor (talk) 20:04, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

vandalized userpage deletion request[edit]


Deleted 2 revisions. Orderinchaos 20:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Please delete the following vandalized user talk page from my userpage history: [46]

Thanks, JGHowes talk - 18:43, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

That's not really a good reason to delete. John Reaves 18:51, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I disagree strongly. It is plainly a libelous statement and, as I do not edit using a pseudonym, should be removed per WP:BLP, viz., "Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material — whether negative, positive, or just questionable — about living persons should be removed immediately and without discussion from Wikipedia articles, talk pages, user pages, and project space". Please reconsider. JGHowes talk - 19:08, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Did you want the whole talk page deleted, or just the one vandalism edit? The vandalism was reverted and is no longer on your talk page. If it's a problem that it's still in the page history, an admin could delete the talk page and then restore every revision except for the vandalism and the revert. There's also Wikipedia:Requests for oversight, though I doubt they'd do an oversight for a fairly typical case of talk page vandalism. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 19:31, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Just asking that an admin. delete that one vandalism edit. There's only the one page after that--the current reverted version. JGHowes talk - 19:35, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Unfortunately there is no technical means of doing that. (think single revision deletion is in development). Really serious problems can be oversighted but this doesn't fall into that category. It's childish vandalism only. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 19:48, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Whatever the issue, I've blocked the IP in question in light of the contribution history.iridescent 19:53, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
It was a reasonable request, I've deleted the two revisions. Orderinchaos 20:44, 29 January 2008 (UTC)


Did I miss a renaming conversation somewhere, or is the move from Aztec to Aztes a simple case of move vandalism? It sure looks funny the way it is now, but since moves can get admin-level complicated, I thought to ask here. -- Michael Devore (talk) 19:26, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

The article was moved, twice, to "Aztes", but I don't see that spelling (or transliteration) explained or even mentioned in the article itself. "Aztec" is good Nahuatl and is the spelling used in Mexico, where Nahuatl is a living language. Also, the mover seems to be a single purpose account. So I'd revert it as mere vandalism and post the usual notifications on the user's Talk. Incidentally, "c" is often soft in Spanish, as in "cena"; the user may simply be illiterate. Pete St.John (talk) 19:34, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
c is soft in Spanish when preceding an e or an i, but not at ends of words, and not in the Spanish language version of "Aztec", which is Azteca. This wasn't a mistake. The z, on the other hand, could be soft, in the Castillian version of Spanish. Corvus cornixtalk 21:20, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
I checked out the contribution history of the user (300winmag (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log)), and it looks like most of his edits aren't good-faith edits. Someone who's been working on one of the relevant WikiProjects would have a lot more credibility in renaming this article than someone who's only been here for a couple days. I warned the user. --Elkman (Elkspeak) 19:37, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

JustAHulk flaming on Jimbo's talkpage.[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:JustaHulk is an edit-warrior for Scientology. He posted on Jimbo's userpage a couple days ago, complaining about anti-Scientology bigotry on wikinews. Then, today he posts another thread, entitled, "Wikinews is a crackwhore." [47]

He said that admins on Wikinews "pimp her out for the lulz" and called the people on wikinews /l/osers. I considered blanking the section and just sending him a warning for incivility or personal attacks, but I'm not an admin so such warnings don't carry the same amount of weight.

Plus, I didn't want to violate the whole "don't edit other people's comments" thing, and I didn't want to see him explode even more after seeing his comments removed.

  Zenwhat (talk) 19:38, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

"called the people on wikinews /l/osers" Am I really such a bad writer? I said "You know, I could really care less if some group of /l/osers wants to go after the Church of Scientology. The Church of Scientology is a big boy and can take care of itself." Is that really not clearly referring to Anonymous? --JustaHulk (talk) 23:28, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
It'll probably be gone by the time I send this, but I'd actually be inclined to let that stand - JAH might be using some dubious language but it does look like a good faith attempt to bring an editwar to Jimbo's attention. (I know zilch about the subject and wouldn't trust Wikinews to tell me the time, so am not going to judge who's the Evil POV Pusher and who's the Guardian of The Truth here.)iridescent 19:43, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
(ec) I have been dealing with this since last Spring. JustaHulk, a/k/a, Justanother (talk · contribs) has been put on notice many times that this sort of behavior is not acceptable. I suggest an uninvolved administrator place a block to stop this, and then remove the trolling from the talk page, per WP:DENY. See Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/COFS and this recent thread. We should not indulge bad behavior or it will become more extreme. JustaHulk is not a new user. They know how to make a proper complaint. Jehochman Talk 19:45, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Jonathan, you know I love you, Bro, but this sort of statement: "has been put on notice many times that this sort of behavior is not acceptable" usually goes better when accompanied by "many" diffs to illustrate the "many times". --JustaHulk (talk) 23:32, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I agree it should be removed from Jimbo's talk page because of the revolting language in the section header. Thanks, SqueakBox 19:54, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Oh, come on, Squeak, move with the times... Everyone is saying "Wikinews" these days! LessHeard vanU (talk) 20:23, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Do you know any crack harlots, LHU? Does Hulk? remember they are living people too, and well I am sure they live close to you and indeed to most of us. Thanks, SqueakBox 23:45, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
  • I would like to formally lodge a complaint here regarding User:JustaHulk/User:Justanother's language in this particular portion (in addition to the whole trolling rant) : "a group that really really should know better, allows a propagandist (and, at 5000-6000 edits per month, likely a full-time paid propagandist) to take over one of their projects.". Uncalled for, violation of WP:AGF, WP:NPA, etc., etc. I agree with Jehochman (talk · contribs)'s assessment, above. Please see this - where JustaHulk agrees to leave this issue rest, providing that both he and I abide by Jehochman's warning to stay away from each other. I heeded that warning. User:JustaHulk/User:Justanother did not (though at the time he said quote "Works for me." in response to Jehochman) - and is back here on ANI not that much over 48 hours later. How long will this disruptive abusive harassment and trolling be allowed to continue? Cirt (talk) 00:04, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
    • Cirt, as I really do not see how it can get any worse as regards the activity I find objectionable and as I think I have stated my case as clearly as it can possibly be stated, I can pretty much say that I am done now. You know, Cirt, I am really not trying to hound you off the project - we got along just fine until this WikiNews thing. What I am trying to do is shake people here up and perhaps get just a few to realize that if you were anti-gay, anti-black, antisemitic - just about anything but anti-Scientologist - your activities would have been reined in a long time ago. It is a very sad commentary that I pound on this point and pound on this point and make hardly a dent in the curtain of prejudice, lies, and bigotry that many, no doubt otherwise compassionate and open-minded, people have drawn tight around their intellects and their hearts. Not everyone here, of course, but many. There are many here that are not so tight-bound and these are a blessing. I just wish they were a bit more vocal. Cheers. --JustaHulk (talk) 02:17, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
      • Everyone has had a chance to calm down, and nobody has been blocked, yet. Wikipedia and Wikinews are big wide spaces. There are lots and lots of problems that need attention. Much as just one or the other of you may be creating problems, I ask the both of you to ignore each other. Leave that problem for somebody else to solve; we have millions of users who will deal with it eventually. If you would like something to work on, come to my talk page and I will point you to a mess that you can help clean up. We have many. Thank you, and good evening. Jehochman Talk 03:57, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Editor repeatedly making unsourced and POV edits[edit] (talk · contribs) has a significant history of adding unsourced information and POV to articles, especially Shoplifting and Winona Ryder. His style has been to write long essays in articles with no citations. This has been discussed repeatedly with him by several editors. Two editors have even tried to help him learn how to find reliable sources and make appropriate citations. A previous ANI was made here, resulting in a block. He stopped editing for a while. Now he has come back with the same problem. If Wikipedia policy is explained to him, he responds on his talk page with another long essay and complaints that Wikipedia and editors are trying to censor important information, then he continues with the same pattern of editing. He either can't understand, or simply doesn't want to comply with rules and guidelines. He has been given many warnings and several final warnings, the most recent from me a few minutes ago. Ward3001 (talk) 21:53, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

  • Well, to begin with, I'd stop spamming his talk page with final warnings. It doesn't seem to be working, and it loses its effect somewhere around the 10th time. It appears that the editor is working in good faith generally (albeit with a definite POV for the articles he/she edits) but can't seem to manage the referencing process or understand the importance of referencing. Probably a good case for someone to adopt (if he can be convinced to register an account) rather than escalating blocks, at least at this time. Avruchtalk 22:10, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

I've left some messages on his page about accounts, referencing and adoption. We'll see what he says, if he responds. If he ignores the messages and doesn't improve appreciably, then perhaps blocking is in order. Otherwise it would be premature. I've also hat/habbed the long history of previous warnings. The warnings are still there, just behind a collapse box. Since it appears to be a static IP, this doesn't strike me as a problem. Ward3001 disagrees, however, and I've told him on my talk page that he is free to undo my edits if he likes. Avruchtalk 22:20, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Point of clarification: I don't disagree with the proposed solution for dealing with (talk · contribs) (at least for now). What I disagreed with was Aruch's unilateral decision to hat/hab a naive user's talk page without asking or even explaining it. Ward3001 (talk) 01:01, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

User page as a lesson plan?[edit]

Resolved: WP:AGF, user contacted

I'm not sure what User:Hashim100 is doing with his user page. It appears to be some sort of mathematics lesson plan, including "Homework" sections. Editor has been unresponsive to questions on their talk page, and the only edits are to this lesson plan. Pairadox (talk) 23:42, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

From fractions to quadratic equations in one userpage lesson! Who needs elementary school? If he continues to not respond to messages on his talk page, an MfD would be in order. Avruchtalk 23:47, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Why do we need such a process for? There's Wikiversity that might be useful, of course, if he doesn't respond, I might just delete the page so he'll talk. Maxim(talk) 23:50, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Delete a userpage to force someone to talk? What, exactly, is the problem with the userpage? DuncanHill (talk) 23:52, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
To be honest this includes to many lessons to be a homework, he might be copying the text of a math book though. - Caribbean~H.Q. 23,:54, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Well unless we can confirm that, I dont think deleting seems helpful, what harm is it doing? Tiptoety talk 23:55, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Seems like a very heavy-handed approach to get him to talk. has anyone notified him of this thread? ThuranX (talk) 23:56, 29 January 2008 (UTC)
Looking at the history of the page, it could well be that the user is taking notes or something. x42bn6 Talk Mess 00:01, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

<--Just did. Give them time to respond. Tiptoety talk 00:01, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

(OD) This editor is very new. I see no problem in how he's using his user page. Who cares? It's a user page. Secondly, I don't read the comments left for him so far as overly friendly. Perhaps I'm mistaken. Do we have a WP:Welcome Wagon around here for new editors?Wjhonson (talk) 00:02, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

It was concern about a possible copyvio that prompted me to list it here. Pairadox (talk) 00:03, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Unless we know where it's vio'd from, it's speculation. I'm inclined to leave it. - Philippe | Talk 00:04, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Second that, leave it (unless we know there is a copy vio), lets WP:AGF. Tiptoety talk 00:06, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I'd normally say "leave it", but this user has zero edits to all pages other than his user page, and seems to be violating WP:NOT#HOST. Sarcasticidealist (talk) 00:05, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
It could be, as CHQ suggests, a copyvio, or if not, still an abuse of space. And when it's deleted they will respond. I've been editconflicted at least 10 times, I'm sick of it, if you need something from me, I'll post at my talkpage because this is insanity. Maxim(talk) 00:10, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
(ec)The user started editing on the 27th inst. - he hasn't vandalized anything, he hasn't been uncivil to anyone, he hasn't violated BLP, he has asked that if there are any problems that people should email him, let's assume good faith and newness here please? Oh, we dont have a "welcome wagon" but I have given him a welcome box - I know I would have been utterly lost when I started without one. DuncanHill (talk) 00:14, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

(OD) Agree with DuncanHill's approach. Please don't bite the newbies. We might be expert editors here, but many people come here not really knowing what's expected and not. There's no long list of things to read before you can start. So let's all assume good faith and offer the editor a cookie for doing something constructive.Wjhonson (talk) 00:18, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

He doesn't strike to me a completely n00b. He knows how to use use <math></math>, something I have no clue how to use. Maxim(talk) 00:23, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Maybe he's just trying to figure out how Wikipedia's math syntax works, and using Wikipedia:Sandbox won't keep the edits around long enough. If that's what he's doing, then he probably knows more MediaWiki math markup than I do, since I've never used it. (I've never had to write out differential equations for stuff on the National Register of Historic Places.) --Elkman (Elkspeak) 00:26, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

...or maybe he's used a wiki before, or edited as an anon... c'mon, this is a bit insane. No harm done right now. - Philippe | Talk 00:27, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
Agreed....time to archive. Tiptoety talk 00:29, 30 January 2008 (UTC)
I think this explains the situation. --Elkman