Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive398

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to navigation Jump to search

Noticeboard archives

Contents

User ImatrollROAR[edit]

Resolved: blocked

User:ImatrollROAR created a provocative username and has proceeded to vandalize the userpage and talkpage of User:Utgard Loki‎. --JoeTalkWork 12:29, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

User:VegitaU[edit]

Hi. Regarding vandal edits here over the past few days: the above user has stepped forward here to own up. The IP addresses that he used - 136.160.138.51, 136.160.150.110 and 136.160.154.150, to name only the three which affected me, were given blocks for vandalism. I believe that the user himself requires an additional block for extreme disruption (I was not the only recipient of this stressful and unacceptable bahaviour, and I lost a lot of valuable editing time dealing with the user's idiocy).

If a block is not forthcoming, it will clearly set a precedent for any so-called reputable editor to carry out such experiments in the future. If there have been unpunished examples of this before (I have not checked), then conversely this is as a result of such lack of punitive measures. I have not taken this up with the user; I have no intention of having anything to do with such an immature mind. I would appreciate some action or at least a reply. If this is the incorrect place to take this, please point me in the direction. Thanks. Ref (chew)(do) 12:45, 10 April 2008 (UTC) Withdrawn. Ref (chew)(do) 14:09, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

This has already been dealt with in a section above, titled University System of Maryland IP vandals. - auburnpilot talk 13:53, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Klejas[edit]

Can someone stop this Klejs character and also undo the moving-articles damage he has done? [1] Thank you! Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 13:16, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

He seems to have stopped for now. I think he doesn't quite realise he isn't on the Polish WP. Maybe. Or something. Anyway, I undid his move and put the resulting redirect up for CSD; all his other edits have been reverted (including one self-revert), so no harm done. -- Zsero (talk) 13:30, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Barneca[edit]

I am concerned about the way User:Barneca treats new editors and first time vandals. I think he is often too heavy handed with his block botton and is often quite rude in his communications.

I just wrote this on his talkpage:

As a reformed vandal myself, I am concerned about your permanant blocking of User:Dem5844. The user made 2 vandalisms and then you harshly blocked him. I think you are often too harsh with blocks. I also think you should try and be a bit more patient with these people to see if they can be reformed first of all, otherwise me might be losing potential future editors. I think that User:DuncanHill makes a very very true and important point on his user page when he says "I used to enjoy editing Wikipedia. I don't any more. Until Wikipedia finds a way to deal with the arrogance and siege-mentality of some admins, it will remain an unpleasant place to be."

He wiped the comment off his talk page, and said that i wasn't welcome on his talk page :(. I dont think this admin knows how do debate things reasonably so i wanna complain about him. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.248.48 (talk) 13:36, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

This editor on a dynamic IP was offended by a 1 day block yesterday. Sorry I can't provide diffs now, as I am headed out the door for a few hours, but see the contribs for most of the IP's posting on my talk page today and yesterday for a taste. All the same ISP, all with the same ax to grind. I'm not interested in engaging them anymore. I've discussed this with one or two people yesterday; look thru my contribs from yesterday if you can't wait, otherwise if anyone here asks for them, I'll try to point to those conversations when I return. --barneca (talk) 13:47, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I had a look through your contributions and the above IP's contributions and previous contributions with similar IP adresses and concluded that the IP above is trolling rather than making a serious criticism. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 13:58, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Actually barneca all I want to do is strike up dialogue with you over this complaint and then put it behind be, but you are so stubborn you wont talk to me, therefore I will go on and on and on until you do want to talk. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.248.48 (talk) 13:59, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

In my experience, and to paraphrase Yogi Berra, if somebody doesn't want to talk to you, you can't stop him. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 14:03, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I've protected barneca's talk page for a bit. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 14:08, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
You also unreasonably blocked me hence why i had to reboot my connection - i dont want to be a sockpuppet, but I strongly believe I have a right to defend myself here.

anyway what i wanted to say was this

Why won't anyone take my feedback seriously? Yes I have vandalised recently, i dont know i did it exactly, but i know deep down it was a rather pointless excercise which wasted my time and the time of those ediors who had to revert my vandalism, so for that i am sorry. However it is only once you have vandalised that you get to be on the receiving end of the admins punishments, and I feel, as a vandal who could have probably quite easilly been reformed there and then, that User:Barneca's interventions worsened the problem. Therefore I stand by my aforementioned complaint/constructive criticism, and i god damn wish that some admins around here would take on board this feedback, after all it's not everyday that you get a recently reformed vandal trying to offer some constructive feedback. 79.77.251.12 (talk) 14:11, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

You do realize that its currently standard procedure to indef block vandalism-only accounts? Mr.Z-man 15:54, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes it is. And the most constructive feedback you can provide is productive editing. Fvasconcellos (t·c) 15:56, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Blocks aren't a harsh punishment. Not editing Wikipedia isn't painful at all; my granny does it every day. Blocks aren't a punishment at all, they're just what we do to prevent vandalism. They don't have anything to do with the vandal personally, really; the block just stops the avenue by which vandalism happens. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 16:02, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
About the Dem5844 block, I don't see that as particularly heavy-handed, just efficient. We're far too lenient at times with vandals anyway; if we identify someone as only here to be disruptive, I don't see any point in bending over backwards with good faith; WP:AGF isn't an order to divorce ourselves from reality. EVula // talk // // 16:09, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I discussed this a little with Yamla yesterday: User talk:Yamla#Some feedback. Comments on my talk page about this are welcome. --barneca (talk) 16:22, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I want to compile a list of unfair blocks by User:Barneca[edit]

Resolved: Original blocks endorsed, socking IP blocked MBisanz talk 17:07, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I am motivated to compile this list having been rather rudely and harshly treated by User:Barneca, who when I tried to talk to him about it, just shunned me and refused to listen. Having looked at his past history I noticed he has been involved in countless controversial blocks, therefore I am compiling this list to raise awareness of mean admins who can sometimes be more detrimental to the WP community than vandals can.

I have found two examples to kick off:

  • All I see are two examples of editors blocked for blatant vandalism; you'll have to put forward a more convincing case than that. пﮟოьεԻ 57 15:47, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
User:Dem5844 was a vandalism-only acccount. Two other admins declined requests for unblock. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 15:49, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Most of User:Nevergonacatchme's edits seem to be vandalism to a high school's article, then the insertion of a misspelling into an unrelated article. Nothing to see there. Where's the rude, harsh meanness? You could find examples of me being way meaner than that, and I'm not even the one being criticized today. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 15:53, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
See WP:ANI#User:Barneca for more whining from the IP address. seicer | talk | contribs 15:53, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Both blocks endorsed. The first never made a good faith edit, the 2nd made some edits that might have been in good faith, but weren't constructive (perhaps they could have been educated rather than blocked, but the block is justifiable). --Tango (talk) 15:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I would normally have tried education on the second one, but the username tipped the balance for me. --barneca (talk) 16:06, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Just became aware of this situation, and even though it is closed I'd like to make one minor point, as the whistle-blower on the second user. His/her last edit was not just a changing of spelling, but changing (maybe inadvertently) a link to a photograph. Blocking was what I expected to happen when I blew the whistle on him/her. --RenniePet (talk) 19:47, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Endorse both blocks. Mind-boggingly obvious examples of vandalism-only accounts. EVula // talk // // 15:59, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Also endorse both blocks. Also endorse Barneca "shunning and refusing to listen", as it is a completely logical step when dealing with a troll, according to the third part of RBI. Keeper | 76 | Disclaimer 16:02, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
  • User:Barneca may have been quick on the block button (truthfully I'm not confident enough to go into that sort of thing yet) and all of us are harsher than we should be sometime but, User: 79.77.251.12 should understand that vandalism is harmful without question and no excuse can be made for blatant vandalism. I'd suggest that the IP editor create a username and contribute constructively in future. Jasynnash2 (talk) 16:04, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
    • Additionally the IP user should probably consider civility issues himself as I've just noticed his comments on User:Barneca talk page (which personally if it was me I'd consider vandalism and probably warn 79.77.251.12 as such. Jasynnash2 (talk) 16:11, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Me thinks that since he is trolling for replies at various forums (now at the Help Desk), that the IP address is a sock of one or both of the blocked users above. seicer | talk | contribs 16:16, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I would like to comment here if I may. I spoke with Barneca about the blocking of the first user, as at first I felt it was a little quick. Barneca civily spoke with me and defended his? block. At that time, I still didn't completely agree with the block and saw that Dem5844 had previously requested an unblock, and was denied- with a stipulation. That stipulation is located on his talk page and at this time, I feel the block is justified because Dem5844 is refusing to comply with the terms set forth for him? to be unblocked. (BTW FWIW all he has to do is copy and paste an article and suggest changes to make it better). Barneca is doing a great job as an Admin and I feel this ANI is out of order. Dustitalk to me 16:17, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

(e/c so not changing indentation)

I'm relatively new at this; anyone who wants to review my block log and provide feedback is welcome encouraged to do so.

Might as well ask this here as somewhere else: Considering the ease with which this IP changes, and considering his post at User talk:Barneca/Unprotected shows he doesn't plan to stop any time soon before asking me why I don't respond to a seemingly reasonable request, please review the history of their previous incarnations over the last couple of days what's better in cases like this: ignore (much easier to do now that my talk page is protected, but they're still disrupting ANI, Help desk, reference desk, other user talk pages, etc.), compile a list of IP addresses and ask someone who knows how to handle this kind of thing to figure out a range block (ISP might be too heavily used by others, I don't know), or start compiling information to report abuse to their ISP? FYI (incomplete list, not sure if it's worth it to continue compiling it):
User:79.69.175.62
User:79.69.206.164
User:79.69.199.112
User:79.77.219.111
User:79.77.248.48
User:79.77.251.12

Thanks for any comments. --barneca (talk) 16:18, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

The answer is simple Barneca and I told you it many times. As I said to you on your talk page:

"Why won't you discuss this with me? I know I am just an IP to you, but in reality I am a person, a person with some behavioural difficulties in the real world, albeit regarded by most of my teachers as very bright. Because of my behavioural difficulties, once I get something in my mind, I find it very hard to let it go, however I know if you just replied to me and said something along the lines of, hi, thanks for your feedback, I have read and considered what you have said, then i know I would be able to let it drop and get on with the stuff in the real world that i should be doing. If you blank this again I will be really hurt. 79.77.251.12 (talk) 15:24, 10 April 2008 (UTC)"

Of course every case is different but when an IP wants to dialogue and it will result in peace in the community then surely that's what you should do no?

OK, well im going to let this rest now. I think I'm going to create an account and start contributing to the project in my own way, after all i guess the best way to change things is for me to work my way up to admin and then I will be able to treat others how I myself would like to be treated. I'll be sure to be careful in my choice of username though, unlike poor old user:notgonnacatchme. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.251.12 (talk) 16:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Good idea. Best of luck to you. --Tango (talk) 16:23, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

(←)This IP is most likely a sock that is disgrunted because Barneca blocked one of his accounts, we should probably dismiss it as frivoulous. There is also the fact that the user has vandalised and trolled [2] after his complaint, wich would clearly explain previous blocks. - Caribbean~H.Q. 16:27, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Given that the IP has said he/she is going to let it rest now, it would be best if we did too. Also, that diff isn't vandalism and certainly isn't trolling... --Tango (talk) 16:29, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Seriously? how is it relevant to the reference desk? regardless this is obviously vandalism. - Caribbean~H.Q. 16:34, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
How helpful is this? Gwen Gale (talk) 16:39, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
The ref desk is a place for asking question, he was asking a question. Those two diffs are rather less constructive. --Tango (talk) 16:44, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Can we consider this resolved, blocks endorsed? Toddst1 (talk) 16:56, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry, I know this is resolved, and I should let this die, and I'm feeding trolls and everything, and maybe I'm even taunting, but I literally just can't pass up telling somebody about this. Based on their reaction, and based on their tell-tale "Iam" instead of "I am", I think I just blocked the "future admin" account this editor just created! [3]. Who needs Checkuser when you're as psychic as I evidently am? --barneca (talk) 17:49, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
LOL - just listen to yourself barneca, I am the real IP from earlier, I have nothing to do with User:Dark3345. If you can prove a link, i'll give you $5,000 reward, if you cannot prove a link then I suggest you hone your admin skills a bit before jumping to false conculsions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.136.72 (talk) 18:10, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
That is funny. There are definite similarities in the writing style and even the formatting. -FisherQueen (talk · contribs) 18:27, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

FisherQueen - I swear to almighty god, on international law, wikilaw whatever, that user has absolutely nothing to do with me. I guess this is a classic example of the boy who cried wolf - sort of, just i never denied the fact that i thought Barneca was a bad admin, so why would I deny it now. Anyway I figure there are three explanations:

1 - Tottally unrelated conincidence 2 - Another editor read my comments and set up a hoax 3 - Barneca himself may have staged the hoax to try and stitch me up - unlikely but maybe a slim possibility —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.136.72 (talk) 18:35, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Definite similarities. Worth a checkuser? (Not sure there's much point - the IP range is too big to block, really.) --Tango (talk) 18:41, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Checkuser says they are unrelated: Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Dark3345. --Tango (talk) 19:58, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

  • Excuse me while I go buy a hat so I can eat it. Apology here: [4] --barneca (talk) 20:11, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Was Barneca right to threaten me with ISP action?[edit]

Just because I strongly disagree with the way he goes about his admin tasks. You can see the offending threat this page along with a list of my previous IP's. BTW i dont mean to be a sock, I cant help it that everytime i log on i get given a different IP. I wish really it wasnt the case. 79.77.136.72 (talk) 18:30, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I don't see such a threat. Could you quote it so I have something to search for? Thanks. --Tango (talk) 18:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
The user is trolling. I think we need to revert block ignore until he stops. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 18:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I agree with the trolling observation. Toddst1 (talk) 18:58, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
If the person who is threatened with a complaint to the ISP is a currently blocked vandal who is avoiding the block by setting up sockpuppet accounts or editing anonymously, as seems to be the case here, the threat would be entirely appropriate. It is trivially easy to abide by WP:BLOCK. If you are blocked, refrain from editing. --Yamla (talk) 19:09, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, trolling is usually viewed as a deliberate attempt at causing drama and minor mayhem. I think the IP probably feels strongly about his/her position and views their behavior as legitimate. Let me just say this to the IP though, you've made your case - on Barneca's talk page and multiple times here at ANI. The issue has been marked as resolved, there is nothing more than can be done. Just let it go. Wisdom89 (T / C) 19:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I don't believe the IP is acting maliciously, nor are they deliberately creating sock puppet accounts. It's obviously a dynamic IP addy. Nevertheless, I suggest creating an account, letting this go permanently, and giving serious consideration to participating in the project constructively. Wisdom89 (T / C) 19:18, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Marking as resolved. – Luna Santin (talk) 19:27, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

independent admins help required on this one please[edit]

Please take a look at the aforementioned link. Basically I am an outspoken critic of User:Barnecas admin style however I have now been falsely accused of being another vandal. I will go as far i need to in order to defend myself on this one. Hopefully somebody can prove that i have absolutely no link with this individual. I am really really upset by this incident - no joke - people may say things like that online but i am sweating and my hands are shaking right now, that's how wound up i am by this whole episode.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Dark3345&action=edit —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.215.172 (talk) 19:07, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I'm sure they will be willing to help. Wildthing61476 (talk) 19:08, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Helpfully put, Wildthing. Gwen Gale (talk) 19:09, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Marking as resolved. – Luna Santin (talk) 19:26, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Could someone stick a cork in this guy, please? HalfShadow (talk) 19:27, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
We need to start deleting his edits rather than replying to them. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 19:29, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I just wanted justice theresa, and it seems that is what i now have got. Please see the evidence below that shows that I am not related to the other user dark3345, separated by an ocean according to user:thatcher.

[[5]] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.77.133.250 (talk) 20:12, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I think the idea that we should indefinitely block a user based on their first two edits is lunacy. Is there really widespread support for this? Never mind, go about your business. 86.44.28.245 (talk) 05:15, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Threat[edit]

What should be done about this? Carcharoth (talk) 13:43, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I see you reverted the IP, and I've blocked it. Personally I intend to ignore but others might want to report it. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 13:47, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
IP belongs to Yazd University of Iran. No calls to Iran for me. - auburnpilot talk 13:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Why would calling Iran help, anyway? Carcharoth (talk) 14:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I was only half serious, but I don't see a need for help anyway. Reporting it to a university, when an IP owned by a university makes a threat, can be helpful because they can frequently track it to who made the comment. I guess you could call the Saudi embassy if you really wish to contact somebody. They'd have a way of contacting his people. - auburnpilot talk 14:49, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
It's interesting, though, the difference in the response seen here between other types of IP threats (say a school-related threat or a threat to commit suicide) and this one (a specific threat against a living person). I too personally tend to ignore as Theresa does, as I'm sure the person concerned (the Secretary-General of the National Security Council of Saudi Arabia) has security people anyway. Oh, and I don't want to cause an international incident between Saudi Arabia and Iran, so I'm leaving this one alone and will ignore (with unspoken caveats) in future. Seriously, though, what does Wikipedia:Threats of violence say about stuff like this? Not a lot, as it turns out. Carcharoth (talk) 16:10, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Partly, if not wholly, because TOV is disputed at its basic level and work hasn't gone into providing guidance for various types of problems. WP:SUICIDE (which isn't just about suicide, but that is the shortcut I remember) might have more information. Avruch T 16:49, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

This should be taken seriously, but without specific information as to a date, time or mechanism of threat then it's difficult to report. Furthermore, threats outside North America are difficult to appropriately report as they may not speak English. I would suggest revert, block, ignore. Bstone (talk) 21:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I can just imagine trying to report this and having the Secret Service, or whatever, descend on you when someone gets the wrong end of the stick and thinks the person trying to report it is making the threats! :-/ Moral: report to people in your own country who speak your own language. And no, it hasn't been reported anywhere as far as I know, and I'm still talking in generalities. And this time I really will keep away from this thread and go make to doing boring DEFAULTSORTS. Carcharoth (talk) 22:10, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

sock and/or meatpuppet issue with WSEAS and related articles[edit]

These articles continue to be recreated by multiple user accounts despite being deleted each time as blatant advertising (G11). The images have also been re-uploaded. The related articles this time are WSEAS, Wseas, World scientific and engineering academy and society, and Nikos E. Mastorakis.

Please see prior discussions at WP:ANI#Ongoing_COI_issue_at_WSEAS and WP:COIN#WSEAS. Thanks. --- Barek (talkcontribs) - 14:24, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Mokedi[edit]

Kind of a borderline vandal IMO. All his edits to date have been totally self-promotional including his image uploads. Just came back on to repost a NN bio about himself, one that was deleted back in March. --PMDrive1061 (talk) 14:47, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

  • The article's been deleted, but the images are still there. Thanks. :) --PMDrive1061 (talk) 14:59, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
    • Image deleted under G11. EVula // talk // // 16:03, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


Truly odd userpage[edit]

Resolved: Speedily deleted

Came across User:Adam's Body in Noah's Ark today. Apparent attempt to build a fairly odd article in userspace. No other contributions by user. Not sure where to take this one. Is AFD appropriate for a userpage?Kww (talk) 16:54, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

If there really is a "joke" somewhere in there, I don't get it. Tan | 39 16:58, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Speedily delete as

Extensive personal opinions on matters unrelated to Wikipedia, wiki philosophy, collaboration, free content, the Creative Commons, etc.

per Wikipedia:UP#NOT Toddst1 (talk) 17:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Also WP:Soap, no article edits at all. Gwen Gale (talk) 17:16, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
For the record, if anyone looks at the page history, I accidently added a speedy delete tag while browing the options. I rolled it back as fast as I could. Oops. Tan | 39 17:20, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
It can't be speedied but I think a MfD would be ok (done). Gwen Gale (talk) 17:24, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
What looks like the same article except for the last sentence is at a blacklisted site http://hubpages .com/hub/Adams-Body-in-Noahs-Ark -- space added in link so I could put it here!Doug Weller (talk) 17:36, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Speedily deleted as copyvio of hubpages. Toddst1 (talk) 17:40, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Checkuser, 3RR or admin attention; IP removing tags at Savant syndrome[edit]

Savant syndrome is not a recognized medical condition, but one author (Donald Treffert of the website Wisconsin Medical Society) has written a lot about it.

Several Utah Educational Network IPs have been removing {{onesource}} and {{unreferencedsect}} tags from Savant syndrome for days; 205.118.77.60 (talk · contribs), 205.118.77.79 (talk · contribs), 205.118.77.104 (talk · contribs), 205.118.77.156 (talk · contribs), 205.118.76.186 (talk · contribs) and more. The IP almost always edits between 13 and 18 UTC, mid-day Utah. Jfdwolff (talk · contribs) has already left a stern warning at 205.118.77.60 (talk · contribs) to no avail.

Aetoss (talk · contribs), who edits Savant syndrome from Comcast between 22 and 2 UTC (Utah evening) has added several times his own Youtube video[6] on Kim Peek to Kim Peek (a "savant" according to Treffert), who is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, while the Utah Educational Network IP in Salt Lake City alternately removes the tags from Savant syndrome.

Two different issues, not sure if they are related or if a Checkuser is warranted, but individual attention is needed to the IP removing tags. There's also a new user Mansley 28 (talk · contribs) in the mix, who appeared about the same time as Aetoss. SandyGeorgia (Talk) 17:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

And, another one now, in spite of warnings and talk page requests, 205.118.76.193 (talk · contribs). [7] SandyGeorgia (Talk) 19:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I have now sprotected the page and will wait for someone of the 205.118 range to come out the woodwork. With regards to Aetoss, I would strongly recommend a checkuser request. JFW | T@lk 19:09, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Paulinho28[edit]

Resolved: Administrator action is unneeded. Metros (talk) 19:37, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I have been monitoring User:Paulinho28's behavior since he signed my autograph page, added a barnstar to his talk page, which was credited to me, and then removed his autograph. When browsing the history of Wikipedia:WikiProject Homeschooling/Members, I noticed that he had added his name and then removed it immediately. I found this strange so I asked him why he did this[8]. He removed the notice immediately [9]. I found this a bit strange, so I asked him again.[10]. Once again, he removed the question [11], and I got a rather rude response from him, asking me to leave him alone[12], which was unsigned (as are most of his posts). So, I left him a quick notice reminding him to sign his posts[13]. He once again removed the notice[14] and what followed was a second rude respose, in which he lied saying I had bothered him 10 times[15]. So I gave him a soft warning[16]. This time he got even more angry, and said that I abuse other users[17]. I gave him another warning[18], and he responded asking when he did this [19], and then removed the notice [20]. Soon after, I gave him a final warning which he removed[21], which tells me he read it. Here is some other information I found on this user's past.

  • Continues to blank talk pages without responding to concerns, leaving only positive comments.
  • Has been blocked four times in the past four harassing users and making personal attacks: [22]
  • Was suspected of sock puppetry, but removed notice from his talk page.
  • Has removed speedy deletion tags.

Since he has been previously blocked for this behavior, it is not like he didn't know any better. I think he should be banned for this behavior. - DiligentTerrier (and friends) 18:12, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Okay, what you're finding rude and attacks doesn't appear to be that way. Asking to be left alone by a guy who keeps restoring unwanted comments to your talk page isn't necessary rude on the part of the person receiving the posts. Can you display evidence of the user taking off speedy deletion tags? Metros (talk) 18:31, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Without actually reading any of the diffs, most of the time if someone is telling you to leave them alone, do so. Continuing to alert them of things, even if you are indeed doing it under good faith and you say it in the nicest of ways, only serves to exacerbate the situation. EVula // talk // // 18:32, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
After randomly sampling about 15 article edits made over the past 48 hours I found only helpful ones. Gwen Gale (talk) 18:46, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Previously, he also said he would stop personal attacks: [23] he also changed the template to make it looked like his unblock request had been granted: [24] - DiligentTerrier (and friends) 18:47, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Other interesting diffs, in many he has been warned. He has also abused the unblock template way too many times. Sorry if they're out of chronological order: [25] [26]

[27] [28] [29] [30] [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36] [37] [38] [39] [40] [41] [42] [43] [44] [45] [46] [47] [48] [49] [50] [51] [52] and of logging out to vandalize the blocking admin's page after the block was denied.[53]. You should also look at the edits he made with his sockpuppet IP. - DiligentTerrier (and friends) 18:47, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Here's a pretty serious personal attack against a user that warned him [54]. - DiligentTerrier (and friends) 18:51, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Looks like he had a very bad day on 6 February, over two months ago. Is there anything in the last week or so? I can't find anything. Gwen Gale (talk) 18:54, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, here are diffs from the speedy tag that he recently removed[55][56]- DiligentTerrier (and friends) 18:57, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Did you see the diffs that he did with his IP address after logging out? I don't think they're in that set above. - DiligentTerrier (and friends) 18:57, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
This is obviously him ... the IP is also from Italy and he vandalized both of the people who warned/blocked him [57]. - DiligentTerrier (and friends) 19:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, and as was said by Gwen Gale, that all happened February 6/7. Is there any abuse recently? As for the renoval of speedy deletion tags, while a user should not take the tags off a page that s/he create, it's not as bad in this context because he took off an inappropriate tag (db-repost doesn't apply for articles that were only previously speedily deleted). Metros (talk) 19:03, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
What about the uncivil comments today? He had been blocked for such behavior in the past and should have known better. - DiligentTerrier (and friends) 19:10, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Which are those? He asked you to stay away and you didn't stay away. His deneanor wasn't particularly rude and it was only as a result of your refusal to leave Paulinho28 alone. Metros (talk) 19:12, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
When a user lies and says that I have bothered him ten times and that I have been abusing other users, I have to at least warn him. - DiligentTerrier (and friends) 19:30, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I think what he meant is, you've edited his talk page nine times today. Might I suggest letting it go for now? Gwen Gale (talk) 19:34, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
At the time he posted that I had only edited it twice. But saying that I abuse other users is offensive. Can an admin at least issue a warning for that? - DiligentTerrier (and friends) 19:41, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Both behaving as badly as each other, I can't see what administrator action is required here George The Dragon (talk) 19:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. Diligent Terrier has behaved rather shamefully in harassing this user, and the user has responded poorly. The blatant attempt to dig up old stuff and blacken his name here was also not a good idea. For someone who is considering adminship in the future I would have expected a lot better. Nothing for admins to do here. Orderinchaos 23:56, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Where to request protection of blocked user's talk page?[edit]

Resolved: Semi-pp 72 hours --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 18:50, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

199.254.212.44 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) was blocked for 72 hours within the last hour. He or she has moved on to massive abuse of the ip's talk page. Apparently reporting the ip to WP:AIV again doesn't work, since the helperbot removes the entry due to the already existing block. Anyway, where would I report this and request that the ip be blocked from abusing his or her own talk page? (And, is it even appropriate for me to do so?) Thanks. -- ArglebargleIV (talk) 18:45, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

It's fine to report it here. The page has been protected. Theresa Knott | The otter sank 18:49, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Thank you! -- ArglebargleIV (talk) 18:50, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
It would actually probably be a good idea to extend the user's block. The 72 hour block expires in about half an hour. Should a bit extra be tacked onto this since it's safe to think that the IP will abuse outside his talk page after the block expires? Metros (talk) 18:50, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I've actually protected for 71 hours, to match the block. But I didn't realise it was about to expire. Leave it with me. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 18:56, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
OK, I've renewed the block and the protection to a week. Not so much for the page abuse, more for the harassment of other editors. It's a college and I have left a warning that the next block will be longer and result in a report to the college authorities. --Rodhullandemu (Talk) 19:17, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


User:Debo7 at Papoose (rapper)[edit]

User:Debo7, previously blocked for continually readding BLP violation has returned to continue readding the same material.[58][59][60][61][62][63][64](etc.) New final warning on 4 April. New instance of same BLP vio 9 April. Editor does not believe there is anything wrong with sourcing, believes interpretation is "common knowledge", believes editors removing material are vandals who need to "swallow (their) pride and let this go", etc. Material is sourced to an online stream of a song and the associated forum thread. Material claims song is a "diss track" against another rapper re handling of alleged shootings, an alleged fight with a third rapper and says the song contradicts the rapper's prior statements on both. - Mdsummermsw (talk) 19:16, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I've left the user a warning about edit warring. Gwen Gale (talk) 19:24, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Slow-burn edit war on People's Mujahedin of Iran and related articles[edit]

I've been editing Wikipedia for a little over a year now. As long as I've been active on this site, there's been a war over the referenced article, as well as on NCRI, Massoud Rajavi, and Maryam Rajavi. Most of the activity involves trying to portray this Iranian group (generally considered a terrorist group in the US) and its founders in a more positive light.

Examples: [65] [66] [67] [68]

Edits (especially lately) are generally subtle, and tend to minimize negative information about the group and its founders. Sourced information is removed, and replaced by positive material of tangential value. Efforts have progressed from inserting material blatantly lifted off the subjects' web sites, to more subtle forms of POV-pushing. The primary users are the following WP:SPAs:

While these editors make fundamentally the same edits, I don't see evidence of coordination and I don't believe they are the same user. Feel free to run a checkuser though.

Both I and BoogaLouie (talk · contribs) have attempted to clean up this article and engage with the users. Efforts to establish communication and dialog on both the users' talk pages (here and here) as well as on the main article talk page have been unsuccessful.

Essentially this is an edit war that never approaches 3RR per day, but is nonetheless damaging to the articles. I'm looking for a strong admin warning, if not a topic ban. // Chris (complaints)(contribs) 19:53, 10 April 2008 (UTC)


I have only been making edits to the article since late February. I've been attempting to cleanup the article, and my edits have been reverted pretty consistently by AlborzTaha (talk · contribs) and Tib72 (talk · contribs) with little or no edit summary, and no comment or explanation on the the talk page. --BoogaLouie (talk) 20:31, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

While I agree this looks like a slowly plodding edit war what I see are some thinly sourced edits and maybe overly PoV edits. Has anyone thought about calling an WP:RFC first? Some kind of dispute resolution may be more helpful than asking for admin intervention here. Gwen Gale (talk) 20:40, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

One of the main problems we are dealing with the is that the other two users don't seem willing to communicate. I'd be happy to try an RFC, but given past history I don't see a lot of hope that this would help. // Chris (complaints)(contribs) 23:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Bringing this here without first trying the dispute resolution process is a bit of a leap. They don't need to participate in an RfC. However, it could bring helpful input from other editors. Gwen Gale (talk) 23:03, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
In that case, having never started and RFC before, should we start one for all four articles, or just the main one and go from there? Thanks! // Chris (complaints)(contribs) 23:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I'd start with one but that's me. See WP:RFC for how. If you need help, let me know on my talk page and I'll be happy to pitch in :) Gwen Gale (talk) 23:48, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Validity of block on Henrik Ebeltoft[edit]

Dear all, I blocked Henrik Ebeltoft on the basis of this checkuser - Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Henrik Ebeltoft - after discussing it with another admin. Since then there is divided opinion on its validity and Henrik Ebeltoft has requested to be unblocked. To be fair to him I have said I am happy to unblock if the consensus is the block is unwarranted. Thus here is a request for more admin input to review here please. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:31, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

(Sorry, discssion on talk page)Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 20:32, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Dear Casliber, I have added an opinion on your talk page. Regards, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 20:38, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, there's really no evidence there at all. No vote stacking, no block evasion, no use of anon editing to edit war. An IP Henrik Uses -- a university IP -- was used by a vandal at some point, and the IP has been blocked. So what? Mangojuicetalk 20:56, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm wondering why Casliber decided to block 2-1/2 months after the CU was run. Thatcher 21:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Given all he sock confirmed yesterday we were looking at accounts which behaved similarly. it looked like it had been left hanging with no follow-up. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 21:32, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Rape of the World confusion[edit]

The user User:Emdm2007 seems to have problem with the article Rape of the World. Obviously there seems to be confusion whether this is vandalism or not. Look here for example. All of his reverts are the same.

If this isn't vandalism, then why...

1) ... does he "unlink" the If I Was Your Vampire?

2) ... does he write mOBSCENE despite the rules say it must be written Mobscene? (I personally disagree with this rule but at least I obey it)

3) ... does he link Irresponsible Hate Anthem to Antichrist Superstar (the album page)?

4) ... does he remove Lunchbox from the set list despite that we both know he played it?

5) ... does he unlink Antichrist Superstar (the song) ?

6) ... does he remove Intro and If I Was Your Vampire from the another setlist? And again, unlink Coma White/Black?

I sent multiple warnings to his IP addresses, look at the article's recent edit history and the IPs' talk pages.

I also reported this on 3RR page. The article was semi-protected because it seemed the edits were only coming from anonymous IP addresses. But now he has registered an user name for doing the edits. The administratiors say this isn't "clear vandalism" so he won't be blocked. I really don't know how else to handle this except blocking the user but I guess that's up to you. I'm tired of fighting Rainrem (talk) 23:03, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Are there sources at all for these set lists? Perhaps the user saw/heard of shows where it wasn't this set list which is why he's taking out things like Lunchbox and If I Was Your Vampire and such. Metros (talk) 23:13, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, but I'm not sure which ones are counted as trustworthy. For example, this set list is from a Finnish fan site. I was in that concert. Since we currently don't have any sources for the set lists, I'd rather have the correct listing than an incorrect one. An another option is to remove the set list, of course. But many people wouldn't like that Rainrem (talk) 23:29, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Where is this rule about mOBSCENE? I don't see anything on the talk page about this, but I see that it's the trademarked usage based on the article. Metros (talk) 23:17, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I remember there was talk about changing to changing any article/track/etc. title to "Something Like this", unless the first letter was lowercased and the second letter uppercased, like "iPod". I didn't actually see that rule on any official page because I didn't bother to look. but I think that's the reason why, for example, the track "EAT ME, DRINK ME" isn't all uppercase on the article either, even though it should. I don't really care so much about that part on his edits, I just thought I was following the rules. The more important question is removal of information without providing a reason or such. Rainrem (talk) 23:29, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Oh, here we go Wikipedia:NAMING#Use_standard_English_for_titles_even_if_trademarks_encourage_otherwise Rainrem (talk) 23:37, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Blatant spam, vandalism and attack account needs to be permablocked[edit]

DJS92 (talk · contribs) is not here to contribute constructively. Since registering, he has engaged in petty vandalism [69], [70], [71], has spammed articles by adding his non-notable self and non-notable friends to lists of people appearing in films [72], has spammed by adding links to his own youtube garbage [73], and made unacceptable personal attacks on others [74]. He is currently temporarily blocked for spamming [75], and is most likely guilty of sockpuppeting too (on the account he spammed). If you ask me, the one-month block should be extended to indefinite. This behavior is unacceptable. Nobody of Consequence (talk) 02:22, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I did not find many good edits in his contribution history. Most were vandalism/personal attacks along with having an advert for a userpage and vanity additions to mainspace articles. Increased to indefinite.¤~Persian Poet Gal (talk) 02:31, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
(e/c) someone beat me to it :) seicer | talk | contribs 02:33, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Since I was the the object of this user's "affection", I did my best not to make it personal by issuing an indef-block, but I'm glad to see that I wasn't overreacting with the blocks I had issued. Jauerbackdude?/dude. 02:35, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Editing history page of vandal still needs clean up[edit]

As requested in a now-archived incident report, "Persistent vandalism of Heath Ledger by apparent sock puppets?", the editing history of Heath Ledger has been cleaned up; however, the same deleted material still remains in the blocked vandal's (vandals') "User Contributions" editing comment of JasonCarteret, which also still needs administrative clean up; please see the earlier report and blocking of the related vandal user accounts. Thank you. --NYScholar (talk) 05:22, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Unacceptable links??[edit]

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bukkake&diff=204836791&oldid=204783365

I'm pretty sure these links are not acceptable in Wikipedia. I'm not sure if the reason is spam, porn site, commercial site OR all of the above.

What is a suitable warning to give to the IP who posted this? Wanderer57 (talk) 06:09, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

There's not really any template that works too well - I gave the IP a {{uw-spam2}} just now, but a typed message would have worked too. Hersfold (t/a/c) 06:13, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

How to deal with constant attempts to get others blocked?[edit]

How do everyone suggest dealing with attempts to get other people blocked, including massive incivility? See this and onward on my talk page. There seems to be a mess of arguments between User:Squash Racket, User:Nmate, and User:Hobartimus on one side versus User:Tankred, User:MarkBA, and User:Svetovid on the other. Some also seem to be using the warning templates aggressively probably in a harassing fashion. Now, I've blocked Svetovid earlier for continuous arguing and incivility from Hedvig Malina. Otherwise, I've told everyone to use the warning templates and WP:AIV. Any suggestions beyond removing all the comments my talk page and telling everyone to deal with it themselves? Block people for harassing other users? I've had some edit disputes, I guess, with a few so could an outside admin look at this? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 19:44, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

Also, I'm curious if anything should be done about the user who started this nonsense saying that he's complaining about me "as suggested" and "Let's see if we can't get him and his kind kicked out of here." Some meatpuppetry going on? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 19:44, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
Sorry no-one else has responded. As far as you are aware, are these editors only edit-warring on the Hedvig Malina article or is that part of a group of articles? I'm inclined to protect the article page for a day and give a stern conduct warning on the talkpage. Will there be many other editors caught by a article protection, from your experience? LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:44, 6 April 2008 (UTC)
The edit-warring at Malina seems to have calmed down, so I don't protection would be that necessary. Another article was been Bratislava Castle which again has calmed down. This seems like part of a larger nationalist argument that I cannot piece together. I'm just wondering if it's worth doing anything beyond wiping my talk page clean and ignoring everyone. How many times is it appropriate for admin to tell others than I am not interested in being their cop before *I* can just block them for bothering the hell out of me? Just need an outside opinion as to how to respond. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 00:28, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I have not posted anything on Ricky's talk page in the last couple of days and already apologized for the earlier comments there answering another editor's accusations (and suggested deleting the whole part or using a hide/show template).
Some users post reports there that belong on a noticeboard and if it goes unanswered, the administrator will probably think it's completely valid. If I cut and paste those reports to where these belong, I would edit others' comments which is not allowed.
Still I decided to pass on yesterday's new report there though I could have added a few things. Since Ricky asked me recently to use WP:AIV I stay away from his talk page.
What to do when another editor who received the same message reports others directly to Ricky instead of a noticeboard? Squash Racket (talk) 04:24, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

If the edit war has calmed down, I concur that you should wipe (or archive, just in case) the material and replace it with a notice that you do not wish to involve yourself with the matter (with a suggestion of taking it to WP:AIV). Like everyone here, you are a volunteer and you decide how you are going to help the encyclopedia. If you do get the sharp end of a few comments, and you are unable to ignore them, post a level4 warning and take it to AIV if repeated. I hope editing becomes more fun for you. LessHeard vanU (talk) 12:54, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

You already got involved by your unexplained and seemingly biased comments and actions towards me, Ricky. You still haven't explained or apologized for that. Saying that you now don't want to be part of this seems a little strange now.--Svetovid (talk) 21:14, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

I warned you about your uncivil comments ("Do have a look at the following articles: Fallacy, List of fallacies and specifically Ignoratio elenchi, Straw man, and Poisoning the well."), you went into a rant about nationalists again, and then I blocked you with an explanation. You had ample time during your block to request an unblock and if another editor thought it appropriate, he could unblock. I am not in the mood to rehash arguments you yourself used as a reason to complain to another user who posted it at WP:AN. You can't have it both ways. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 01:30, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Also, I have further told you that comments like this ("watch out or you may be blocked for complaining without any explanation from Ricky") are not helpful and rehashing arguments at Hedvig again and again simply to get a fact tag slapped on a page that you obviously wanted deleted from the start is also not helpful. If anyone else has a suggestion, I'm open to it. I'd suggest a block because I frankly have yet to see a lot of anything other than POV pushing from him (check his last edits for reverting back in a number of articles using popups). -- Ricky81682 (talk) 01:30, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
Those are just statements, not explanations.
I listed the fallacies and nobody challenged that yet so my comment stands and your reaction to it was inappropriate.
"I'd suggest a block because I frankly have yet to see a lot of anything other than POV pushing from him." -> was this comment aimed at me? If so, I really would have to report this because you would have crossed the line of genuine confusion.
And to provide full information and avoid quote mining, here is the comment I made.
Moreover, why cannot I state my opinion on nationalism, especially when I was asked about it? How does that make my comment a rant?--Svetovid (talk) 21:59, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

After being warned not to use "misleading statements" [76] by an administrator, to trying to get people blocked, Tankred first went "admin shopping" to user DDima, with the same misleading statement [77] , he was warned for citing a number of warnings (most of them given by user:MarkBA as harassment[78]) as "evidence". After he was rejected by user:DDima he went for AIV with the very same material now multiple times rejected [79] but now also falsely accused his victim of vandalism, but his complaint was promptly rejected, with one user charactherizing it as [80] "fraudulent report during a content dispute". Should he be allowed to shop the same material around to every forum and admin until he can mislead someone into a block? He was already warned and did it anyway and a quick look at his contributions shows other issues as well. Hobartimus (talk) 20:28, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Although I understand that Hobartimus shares Nmate's POV, I cannot understand why he is protecting an evidently disruptive user. If this edit[81] is not vandalism, how would you call it then? As to the warnings, Nmate has received a nice collection from four different users ([82],[83],[84],[85],[86],[87],[88],[89],[90],[91],[92],[93],[94]). Just look at all his personal attacks, for God's sake (see a list that excludes the most recent ones at [95]). Tankred (talk) 01:47, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Typical forum shopping yet again. Posting the same thing but not posting all the previous reaction to the material depriving it from all context for the 4th 5th time?. Among the reaction is admin warning about [96] making "misleading statements" user comment describing it as "fraudulent report"[97] and the fact that WP policy WP:HAR, found at [98] states "Placing numerous false or questionable 'warnings' on a user's talk page, restoring such comments after a user has removed them,... in their user space is a common form of harassment." Let's see how many warnings came from user:MarkBA who was already suspected [99] of harassment of this user weeks ago? I count no less than 9 warnings coming from MarkBA in Tankred's post above and what is more alarming that even some of the remaining warnings came after MarkBA directly requested another user to "watch out" [100] referring to user:Nmate, and the solicited warning arrived one hour later of that message [101]. A case of mass warnings given/organized by a single user almost word for word matching the section from WP:HAR down to the "restoring such comments" part. This by the book harassment is now presented as "evidence" to strengthen a weak multiple times rejected case. When shopping around like this all the previous responses and rejections are swept under the rug and this is why we need a definitive answer to the question in the title of this thread "How to deal with constant attempts to get others blocked?" Hobartimus (talk) 19:24, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
MarkBA - an editor with 7,500 edits, 1 featured article, 1 good article, numerous DYK articles, and 3 barnstars - retired because of Nmate's and your hostility. I fully understand his decision. It is hard to contribute to a project in which you are called names and your nation is being constantly ridiculed. But MarkBA was only on out of five editors that have warned or blocked Nmate. Thank you for diverting this discussion from Nmate's disruption to a retired editor, who cannot defend himself against your attacks. And this is also my last attempt to ask the community for help. Since no one is interested in dealing with Nmate's repeated personal attacks in edit summaries,[102] hate speech,[103] and disruptive editing,[104] I have no reason to waste more time in this discussion. Tankred (talk) 23:43, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Tankred is an edit warrer. He/she started deleting my edits, multiple times under false summaries[105]. Look at Tankred's edit history:[106] and block log:[107]. He/She's massively edit warring on at least 20 pages. And it would be "uncivil" calling him a disruptive editor or vandal or something even "worse" wich can be derivered from the likeness of his edits and behaviour and style and what you can see easily? Where are your eyes at?

Tankred is the disruptive and agressive POV-pushing user, who tries to hide this, by accusing everyone else as acting like him. No no no no, Tankred starts it and then tries to show himself as (in the role of) the victim as well as the saviour of wikipedia. However he uses the NPOV and other policies not for Wikipedia, but against Hungarian users, and Hungary and Hungarians in general.

Tankred is the agressor, however, the users he/she harasses unfortunately respont almost in the same way :( I am sure, that Wikipedia without Tankred would be a better place. I suspended my editing because of him, alone. This user is the "nationalist, POV pusher etc. vandal", hiding it by accusing everybody else of being that. TANKRED STARTED ALL THE EDIT WARS. This was my last comment on enwiki, do not try to respond or send e-mail, i wont answer. --Rembaoud (talk) 14:44, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Well, now, this feels familiar. Anyone have any suggestions beyond closing this as "this is not the complaints department" and go to dispute resolution? -- Ricky81682 (talk) 03:21, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Why not consider an article ban? A group of editors who've been part of highly contentious editing on Hedvig Malina in the past would be banned from directly editing that article for a period of time. In Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren#General restriction Arbcom ruled that: Any editor working on topics related to Eastern Europe, broadly defined, may be made subject to an editing restriction at the discretion of any uninvolved administrator. For previous bans issued under this case see Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Digwuren#Log of blocks and bans. EdJohnston (talk) 03:53, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Please look into those edits a bit more before issuing quick bans. One editor didn't like eight references and kept deleting them. Most of the edits there are simply restoring this stuff. Svetovid was blocked three times for disruptive behavior regarding that article so now punish everyone for this?
Anyway the edit warring there seems to have cooled down since Ricky's intervention and the article appears to be stable now. Squash Racket (talk) 05:01, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
User:Svetovid after reading my comment wants to prove at all cost that the article is not stable, so he reinserted the formulation "Slovak from Slovakia", but please don't buy into his provocation. Squash Racket (talk) 09:36, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd like to see some examples of and evidence for the alleged POV-pushing. (You can list them on my talk page.)--Svetovid (talk) 09:22, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Per my comment at your talk page, I am not interested in continuing to repeat myself with you. I will leave it to someone else. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 23:31, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
That was a reply to Rembaoud.--Svetovid (talk) 09:47, 11 April 2008 (UTC)


Edit-warring on talk page[edit]

Resolved

Nothing for admins to do. Orderinchaos 08:08, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd appreciate a review of the matter at my talk page relating to a blocked user who has contacted me and expressed an intention to engage in a campaign of edit-warring and harassment against a person who is the subject of an article, using public kiosks and other hit-run means at User talk:Retarius#Freddy. Another user is insisting on deleting the material, including my attempt to defuse the situation. I have asked him to desist but he refuses and insists that he will determine what's allowed to be on the page. I won't characterise his behaviour beyond saying that I think an analysis of his talk page contents and relations with other editors will reveal a pattern. Retarius | Talk 07:01, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I will vouch for the other editor. No admin intervention is needed. Perhaps the intervention of a friend instead.... Hesperian 11:29, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
As will I. I'd also mention to Retarius that we really shouldn't be engaging with people who use threats and vandalism and block evasion to try and get BLP-violating content into articles. Admins and, if necessary, OTRS can deal with those matters appropriately. Orderinchaos 14:19, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Rjecinas deleting and bullying[edit]

He keeps deleting arguments I wrote in Talk Pages of Nikola Tesla and [Josif Pančić]], explaining that he "does not allow me to edit". Now he threatens me (see Talk Page in Nikola Tesla article) that he will have me blocked, and then delete all my contributions. I have never been banned from Wikipedia, nor accused of vandalism. Ever. This is my only account, and I am not always logged in, and the IP's I'm signed with then are from the same IP-pool used by 60% of Internet users from Serbia. If this user "Rjecina" harasses and bullies all newly registered or inactive users from Serbia, I suggest that his edits (i.e. brutal deletions) be checked. I feel tired and frustrated that a person can so brutally delete someone's effort and spared time. I stress that we are talking about contributions in the Talk Page. A false claim had been made in the main article, I edited it and wrote an explanation in the Talk Page, and then this "Rjecina" comes, reverts my edits and deletes the arguments I offered in the Talk Page, so that no one can read them any more. That is preposterous! Marechiel (talk) 20:07, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I was reading this right up until I saw the word "Serbia"... This may be unfortunate, and this editor may have a valid complaint, but as soon as I see a whiff of nationalism in a section I find myself tuning out.
Marechiel, do you have any supporting diffs regarding your allegations. Even those admins made of sterner stuff than myself are going to need to find evidence for what you are saying. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:12, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Marechiel has in his own words used 3 accounts to edit article Nikola Tesla in only 25 hours [108] and his latter statement is saying that he is having other IP address which he use [109].
Marechiel (if this is right name) is in his own words clear example of user which is using multiple anonymus IP to edit articles ! He is saying that he is not puppet of banned user Velebit which has been banned because of multiple accounts but checkuser will show this. I do not understand why Marechiel is calling me to solve "conflict like man" [110]after my comment that I will ask checkuser report if he is not puppet of Velebit ?--Rjecina (talk) 07:50, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Huh? Rjecina, your English reading comprehension seems to let you down here. Marechiel said no such thing. He was simply editing logged-out, and he stood up acknowledging the IPs were his afterwards, so that's by definition not sockpuppetry. Also, Marechiel is quite an old account (editing since April 2006), which makes it fairly unlikely he's himself a sock. On the other side, Marechiel, while there is no written rule you can't edit logged out, if you wish to contribute to longerm contentious articles I would strongly recommend you don't do that; always log in to avoid suspicions and make your editing more transparent. Rjecina, please stop treating Marechiel as a sock, there are at present no grounds for doing so. Fut.Perf. 08:05, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Harassment[edit]

I am in a process of starting an article, [111] which is currently in my user space, where i am working on it. This proposed page was nominated for speedy deletion two times first by User:Marathi_mulgaa and then again by User:Reneeholle as soon as it was copied from french wikipedia for translation [112],[113], and both times it was rejected, then the page was nominated for MfD [114], which was closed with Keep, and User:Reneeholle along with Sethie were cautioned for WP:COI and collateral attack on the article by the closing admin.[115]. I though that after this closing i will be able to work in peace and complete the article [116], But Sethie and marathi_mulga are continuously vandalizing my user-space, even after I made them a request, [117] as not to destroy any attempt that i am making in writing the article, informing them, that once i am done with the article, i will file for RfC about wikipedia policies, concerning the article.

But they are continuously reverting whatever i am trying to do in my own user-space. [118],[119][120], [121],[122],[123],[124], [125],[126]. this list is endless.

Then a notice at BPL was also filed [127], where it was again rejected [128]. All this is in addition to calling me with various names, and associating me with various blogs and organization, [129].How can i write the article ? what is the next step i can take in preventing them from disrupting ? --talk-to-me! (talk) 21:06, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I have blocked both Sethie and Marathi mulgaa for 12 hours for edit warring, and have explained the reasons why. I have informally warned Reneeholle, since I note that they have stopped reverting and have attempted discussion. I strongly suggest that any further discussion is politely and comprehensively responded to, for the improvement of the article. I would hope that Sethie and Marathi mulgaa will also be part of that discussion. If not then I suggest reporting any further edit warring to AIV.
I note that Cult free world (talk · contribs) has been a frequent subject on these boards recently, so I invite review of my actions here. LessHeard vanU (talk) 21:47, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, there are two sides to every story as they say. User:Cult Free World fails to tell people that the reason his article was nominated for speedy deletion is because it is previously deleted content (four times previously deleted). It had just been speedily deleted from reposting here, and then was moved to talk space where it was again speedily deleted here. He then reposted in user space. When the speedy delete tag was removed, I posted an ANI report per administrator advice here. On that ANI report I was told to file an MFD (see third post in ANI report above). It was hotly contested and a cleaned up version of the page (not containing libelous material) was what was kept. Immediately upon the MFD close, User:Cult Free World reverted to the libelous version here. He received a block for personal attacks a few weeks ago here. Throughout this process, I have attempted to engage Cult Free World in discussion about sources and he has repeatedly engaged in personal attacks.
He also mis-represents the MFD. The closer noted in the "Discussion" section here that there was a "WP:COI collateral attack on the article" meaning that instead of focusing on content, the attack focused on COI of the user, i.e., the closer continued, "the claims appear to be actually made against User:Cult_free_world and comments on his or her user or user talk page and not material in the article under nomination." As noted above, by the time the closer reviewed the article the libelous/unsourced contentious material was gone, i.e., "a quick review of the article did not indicate any such issues. Therefore, these matters have not been considered in this closing. Raise any such issues at WP:BLP/N, WP:ANI, or by contacting WP:OTRS." The whole paragraph must be interpreted in context so as not to mis-construe it.
Finally, User:Cult Free World has filed numerous complaints and most have been ignored, here or he has received comments on his behavior here.
I hope you can understand that to those of us active on the previously deleted content (for which this differs very little), that it seems like a real attempt to circumvent deletion review and manipulate the evidence (for instance, archiving the talk page related to the proposed article today; leaving a clean version for the MFD closer to review and then immediately reverting it). It is my understanding that editors should delete libelous, defamatory, and unsupported/unsubstantiated material in any space, because it puts Wikipedia at risk. And, there is a whole section in the User's current page where he quotes in length from a newspaper article ruled prima facie libelous and defamatory, with no corroborating evidence or secondary source evidence (this seems like a huge violation of Wiki policy, which is why I objected to it). I followed the MFD closer's advice above, where he says to post complaints on the BLP board. Throughout this whole process, I have followed admins' advice to the "t" and there is a lot of history associated with this user and these topics that may not be apparent when evidence is archived and selectively presented. Thank you, Renee (talk) 22:42, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
p.s. Regarding the blogs and evidence that this user is User:Rushmi/User:Shashwat pandey, I can email any interested admin firm evidence, but cannot publically post it because it "outs" the user, a violation of user policy. The user is not abusively using separate accounts, hence, I have not filed on the sockpuppet board.
Someone else has. Darkson (BOOM! An interception!) 09:48, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Fredrick day edit warring over user page[edit]

User:Fredrick day is blocked. Known IP of his has edited User talk:129.174.91.115, revert warring with IP of User:Sarsaparilla (and myself). The page being edited is for IP that was used by Sarsaparilla for two days, being IP for George Mason University, used by Sarsaparilla extensively in a session beginning at 15:00, 8 April 2008 and ending at 01:31, 9 April 2008. This IP is unlikely to recur for Sarsaparilla and thus placing a sock puppet concern template on it is inappropriate. Please look at the edit history of the Talk page in question.[130] It tells quite a story. I'd suggest semiprotection of that Talk page, and attention to the sock activity for Sarsaparilla and Fredrick day. See Wikipedia talk:Suspected sock puppets/Fredrick day, for IP information re Fredrick day. --Abd (talk) 21:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I've blocked both IP addresses for block evasion. Abd, I must strongly caution you against the edit warring you were involved in here. You reverted 3 times, even though you knew the other editors were evading blocks. Next time, please just report them earlier. Mangojuicetalk 02:24, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Blocking single IPs for these editors is likely to be singularly ineffective, they come in with different IP regularly. Sarsaparilla uses a recognizable IP, for George Mason University, which I understand cannot be range blocked because the block is used by many students. Fredrick day most often uses a particular range starting with 87.112-87.115 or so, which is probably his home variable IP, he just reboots his modem. But he also picks up other IP from, probably, unsecured routers in his neighborhood, and he apparently uses open relays around the world. Yes, I reverted 3 times in 24 hours, which I'd not do with any registered editor nor with ordinary IP editors. I'm a little disappointed that Mangojuice did not take that edit out, nor did he semiprotect the article, so busy is he with criticizing my action. Unfortunate. Yes, I will report earlier. However, in toto, I reverted five times over three days, and Fredrick day reverted eleven times, Sarsaparilla six times. Fredrick day reverted five times in 24 hours. --Abd (talk) 04:40, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Well, I didn't protect because the block should be sufficient. And I didn't remove the paragraph because it is accurate -- that is an IP address being used by Sarsaparilla. Yes, you behaved better than they did... but they are blocked and you aren't. Mangojuicetalk 12:30, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Privatemusing posting for banned user[edit]

At Wikipedia_talk:OptOut#This_proposal_is_much_too_weak Privatemusings (talk · contribs) has reinserted comments made by banned user Mr. Brandt. Mr. Brandt confirmed on WR after having been blocked here that they were indeed his comments. Privatemusings should already know better than to post for a banned user and to revert the removal of a banned users comments. Further, one of the principles in his arbcom was that users should not game the system, proxying of an unbanned user for a banned user would seem to be just that. MBisanz talk 21:49, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I'll also add that Mr. Brandt's statement implicitly threatens that hivemind will be expanded unless his views are headed, which seems like a threat to me. MBisanz talk 21:54, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
That policy says

Wikipedians are not permitted to post or edit material at the direction of a banned user, an activity sometimes called "proxying," unless they are able to confirm that the changes are verifiable and have independent reasons for making them. Edits which involve proxying that has not been confirmed to that effect may be reverted.

Isn't it worse then if Privatemusing is acting on his own to say hivemind will be expanded unless Mr. Brandt's views are heeded? MBisanz talk 21:55, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
  • I think we should use common sense here. I am not seeing the disruption. NonvocalScream (talk) 21:56, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
    • That only takes into account content edits - no-one should be posting for banned users in discussions. Ryan Postlethwaite 21:58, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
      • Precisely. The rule is quite clear about that (and the language about verifiability confirms Ryan's position.) --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 21:59, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
      • I interpreted it as "Can be verified that so and so made it (DB)" and "has independent reasons for making them (pm had an independent thought/point". NonvocalScream (talk) 22:00, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Surely there are worse things to worry about that comments from someone who has been on the wrong side of the BLP situation and obviously can speak from experience. None of us have had our biographies up, I assume, so let's use a little commonsense here and, at the very least, turn a blind-eye. George The Dragon (talk) 22:02, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

      • I do not see "proxying", I see someone reporting what was said elsewhere by another (banned) individual. Proxying is the act of making statements or decisions or actions on behalf of another party (proxy voting) whereas PM is copying what Brandt wrote elsewhere - including the request to have it copied - and placing it for discussion, without making any comment on the content. LessHeard vanU (talk) 22:07, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

(eep! - edit conflicts! - and thanks for the note, nonvoc...) - seriously folks, this is pretty straight forward. The post is relevant, unsuprising, uncontroversial, on topic, and I found (and find) it interesting, so was happy to take responsibility for reposting / reporting it... hope this is no big deal, and we can all move along....(would a third person re-write help? - happy to do that too...) cheers, Privatemusings (talk) 22:03, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Proxying for a banned user is forbidden, with the one exception spelled out in the policy, is forbidden. I strongly suggest you not do it again. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 22:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I don't think he was proxing. NonvocalScream (talk) 22:09, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I did not think much of the re-posting the comment from the banned user that I removed. I don't think it is worth taking any action over, I just don't think much of it. (1 == 2)Until 22:04, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I did not see anything to really warrant action in this case either. Perhaps you may remove the comment and rephrase it in your own words. That may help. NonvocalScream (talk) 22:06, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

This over the top rules lawyering is making me ill. Majorly (talk) 22:08, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

  • Removed again - banned editors aren't allowed in discussions here. Ryan Postlethwaite 22:39, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I've made a note at the page, and have discussed this a little with Ryan on IRC. My reading of the discussion at this page, my talk page, and the talk page in question, is that there is a consensus to allow me to report the post, and I would like to see it restored. I have no desire to upset anyone however, and will step back now I have made my view clear! Everyone's welcome for tea at my place if they'd like it.... Privatemusings (talk) 23:50, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
I think that it's clear here that you shouldn't be reposting messages for banned users, which is exactly what you did here. Brandt aint allowed on here, especially in discussions related to WP. Ryan Postlethwaite 23:54, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Echo Majorly here. ViridaeTalk 23:52, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

It is about not feeding the raccoons. They may be acting in a kind manner now, but if you feed them they will eventually cause damage or hurt someone. Users who are banned are banned for a reason, sometimes for very good reasons. They are not welcome here, and they should not be made to feel that they are welcome. Just my 2 cents on the matter. I ask that you do not return the post for that reason, post a link to the diff if you must. (1 == 2)Until 23:53, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
Taking a quick break out of my night and limited time to post here. BLP has been a long contentious issue and DB has been a long contentious article subject here (Since early 2005 IIRC until last month). Like I have been told by many people before about just about every rule and policy here, they are not suicide pacts. The posting was highly relevant to the subject at hand and offers the perspective of someone who has been involved highly with the issue and eventually was banned for it. The views are relevant. People are smart enough around here to weigh them appropriately. Banned means banned. But damnit, use common sense! spryde | talk 01:13, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Banned means banned, not editing via proxying or anything else. Banned means no editing on wiki at all, including by proxy. 68.10.193.214 (talk) 01:17, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Another thing "banned" means is "the community isn't interested in anything you have to say. Go away." --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 01:25, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
But that is not clearly not so, we are interested in his comments as members of this community, Brandt is highly intelligent and experienced (not a ranting teenager) and by doing this we play into his hands. Given that he is someone whose only interest in wikipedia up till now has been removing his own article but having achieved that has made an interesting and constructive comment (albeit somewhat paranoid) I find it disturbing that his contributions shopuld have been removed. save that for the bad faith users. Thanks, SqueakBox 01:29, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

<snip trolling>

The previous comment was that user's third edit. Their first edit occured about an hour ago. Ed Fitzgerald (unfutz) (talk / cont) 03:36, 11 April 2008 (UTC) (Note: This referred to the comment that's been snipped as "trolling", which was by User:Roderick Stiphington)
Yes, I snipped it, sorry, should have updated your comment. Having looked around for a bit, I'd guess User:Roderick Stiphington is a sockpuppet of User:The Defender of the Wiki. --Relata refero (disp.) 07:02, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Sounds like it. Supportive trolling is still trolling. (Much more pleasant, but still.) --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 18:02, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Independent Opinion - experienced sleuths needed[edit]

Dear all, this checkuser - Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Boomgaylove - showed up User:Willirennen and User:Knock-Off Nigel to be socks. Willirennen has asked for an unblock here with a fairly detailed explanation of how this might have come about. My question is is this plausible and hence is an unblock warranted? All experienced wiki-sleuth sockhunters welcome. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 00:40, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I find it hard to believe this user had a friend using nine sundry Wikipedia accounts on his own home computer without knowing about it. Gwen Gale (talk) 00:51, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Note: Willirennen's unblock request was just granted here.¤~Persian Poet Gal (talk) 01:06, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I also have lots of trouble believing his houseguests (whom he says he cannot "pinpoint") studied his contribution history before opening accounts and editing similar articles from the computers in his home, all without telling him a word about it, as he claims. Gwen Gale (talk) 01:11, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
WP:DUCK ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 01:13, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I guess it would have been helpful to see this thread first, but I'm giving the editor the benefit of the doubt based upon my judgement. I'm monitoring his edits, and if there is anything out of line, I'll reblock. seicer | talk | contribs 01:16, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I haven't examined all of Willirennen's and Knock-Off Nigel's contributions in detail (to say nothing of the other supposed socks), but the pattern on March 7 of this year looks suspicious to me: From 14:51 to 15:49 K-ON performs a string of edits, mostly tagging articles for speedy deletion and commenting in AfDs where he had been the nominator; then Willi performs a quick string of constructive edits from 15:53 to 16:10, whereupon K-ON suddenly pops up for one edit at 16:15 to respond to two comments at one of his AfDs, and Willi then continues editing from 16:23 to 21:14. Deor (talk) 01:45, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
OK..Deor, good sleuthing, that does look ominous. That makes three additional editors suspicious and one prepared to accept Willirennen's explanation....shall we wait for some more eyes? Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs)
My unblock can always be reviewed; it's not static, and if there is enough consensus or agreement that the editor has been socking it and editing disruptively, then I have no issue with an indef. block. seicer | talk | contribs 02:34, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
An indef block is not required. Asking the user to edit with one account only would be the better choice. If he denies the SPs again, and if he/she persist, then yes. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 03:01, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Yes, that might be ok, though I would say any further denial of these socks would be worrisome. Gwen Gale (talk) 03:08, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Just as a quick note, in addition to User:Willirennen and User:Knock-Off Nigel turning up as socks per the checkuser, the two accounts do have some history of participating on the same side in AfDs with all sorts of IP and single-purpose accounts. Two examples are Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Natasha Collins and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/NASIOC. In the first case, consider this progression of edits from both accounts: [131], [132], and [133]. In the second case, Willirennen was on the same side as all of the following, which have also been blocked for a variety of reasons: User:Moosato Cowabata, User:Garth Bader, User:Lara Dalle, and User:AnteaterZot. Best, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 05:26, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

(outdent) I have been out and about today and I think a better explanation is needed per Deor's findings. I am having a hard time seeing it as anything other than sockpuppetry. I will ask him. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 06:01, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

  • Per the above, I think a "one account only" warning is OK in this case, for now at least, because we don't need to flip-flop on this. In general, though, the "room mate" excuse is about as plausible as "the dog ate my homework". Guy (Help!) 11:11, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Admins willing to make difficult blocks[edit]

Notifying people here, since this page is tangentially related to that discussion and shares a similarly appropriate userbase.

Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Admins willing to make difficult blocks. SWATJester Son of the Defender 04:35, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Canvassing? ;) 195.216.82.210 (talk) 09:28, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I'm pretty neutral on this. Imagine the notification is from me, if that'll make it easier on 'ya ;) dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 09:31, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I may be wrong but, I don't believe that just notifying people of a discussion constitutes canvassing. Jasynnash2 (talk) 13:08, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
No, you're right. Notifying people who're interested in the subject is fine. It's only notifying just those who'd support your angle that's unacceptable. WilyD 13:13, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Editor persists in