Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive43

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Aug 31st-sept 14



Please help! This user is being fond of claiming I am the person who vandalized Hephaestos' user page lately; I'm not! He would not stop accusing me by thinking I am the one who did it, but I am really not! He just threatened to ban me for 24 hours. -- Mike Garcia | talk 02:02, 31 August 2005 (UTC) User:

Erm, that wasn't Mike Garcia that posted that. It was some anon. Dmcdevit·t 02:21, August 31, 2005 (UTC)
The IP is AOL so it keeps changing, which is probably the problem. You IP is being shared by many people so the message was intended for someone else. Getting a user account will solve this problem. This link is Broken 02:29, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
It was absolutely Mike Garcia. Listen to the language he uses, "vandalized Hephaestos' user page lately". Why would an innocent person completely unfamiliar with the situation say lately? The entire posting sounds like Mike and it is Mike and I'm getting sick of him. Func( t, c, @, ) 19:22, 31 August 2005 (UTC)
Well, he will freely admit that he frequently vandalized the page before he was unbanned. Guanaco 02:44, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Mike Garcia, aka User:Michael, has repeatedly vandalized Hephaestos' and my User pages. Why should he stop now just because he changed his name? Zoe 05:47, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
Guys, please break it up! I am really, really not the person who has vandalized Hephaestos' user and talk page.-- Mike Garcia | talk 22:29, September 2, 2005 (UTC)
Baloney. You were positively offensive in the number of times you vandalized both his and my pages. Zoe 08:21, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

Willy on Wheels again[edit]

Keep a watch. BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB (talk · contribs) has been blocked by three users before he managed to do much harm, but he comes in waves. Sjakkalle (Check!) 14:27, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

BTW, there are a few of his droppings still at the Quechua Wikipedia: [1]. Could some admin over there clean this up, please? (Or if somebody knows whom to tell about it, do so?) Thanks. Lupo 14:34, August 31, 2005 (UTC)
Maybe we should let the devs clean this one up. --Golbez 15:43, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

DotSix (AKA Donald Alford) Violating His Injunction Again Today[edit]

Alford (= "DotSix") is editing pages that he is not allowed to edit in violation of his injunction. Example: [2]

Legal threats[edit]

0waldo (talk · contribs) just posted this bizarre legal threat here. Can an admin deal with it, SqueakBox 17:41, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

Why doesn't anyone listen to me when I say "Remove him"? Blocked 48 hours on general principle of making a legal threat. --Golbez 17:46, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

Entry on Talk:Bogdanov Affair moved here from WP:AN[edit]

I've moved this entry bodily from WP:AN, since David Gerard suggested to me it was really a series of incidents. WP:ANI seems to get more attention, too, and I'd certainly like to know if anybody dispproves of my blocks of Sophie. Also I rather expect yet another incident when her latest block expires (as in, another block). Bishonen | talk 23:49, 31 August 2005 (UTC) (signing "Sophie Petterka") did not participate at all in the discussion but fill the discussion page with garbage and personal attacks every day. I suggest to block this user. --YBM 13:59, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

26/08: The same a few hours ago : 6 editing blanking most of the current discussion + Goldwin-like personnal attack and other psychotic garbage. --YBM 01:16, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

All right, I checked out that talk page. "Sophie"'s edits are so extreme that in a way they're hard to take seriously, but they're also outrageous. Look at this one, blanking and replacing a long post of YBM's, i. e. it's written as if from YBM (not that it's exactly likely to deceive anybody). And, oh, look, here's a legal threat. I'm blocking for 24 hours right now. Yes, without warning, so desysop me. Actually I hope Sophie takes a mere 24-hour block as a warning, because if she doesn't I see a permanent ban in my chrystal ball. Bishonen | talk 02:00, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
That IP has been blocked for 24 hours (it's a dynamic IP address, so it makes no sense to block for too long). If that user starts doing it again, ask for help on WP:AIV. --cesarb 01:58, 26 August 2005 (UTC)
OTOH, "Sophie" has been using it for a week. Bishonen | talk 02:02, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

As YBM did (and since he won't be able to announce it himself today), I would like you to have a look on the discussion page concerned: altough you had warned her, "Sophie" goes on debiting nonsenses, slanderous words and personal attacks.--Max.Epiphysique 12:18, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks. I have looked at the page, and written a warning on User talk: I will re-block if there's more yelling and so on, but right now the IP hasn't edited for many hours. If anybody notices "Sophie" coming in from a different IP and editing abusively, please let me know, or, in case you're an admin, please just block her. Bishonen | talk 14:31, 27 August 2005 (UTC)
I'll follow the advice you've sent to me, with the likely support of the sane contributor of the discussion page. Meanwhile, "Sophie" is vandalizing again the page. As predicted she is now accussing me to have "INFILTERED WIKI WEBSITE AND DELEETED MY BLOG AND BANISHED ME FROM IT ILLEGALLY BY STEALING THE IDENTITY OF AN ADMINISTRATOR" (sigh) -- 02:58, 28 August 2005 (UTC) [this is YBM].
Update: Most of Sophie's anger has been transferred to me for the moment. She's very upset—she was that even before being blocked—and I do believe her interaction style is making it impossible for editors of the article to use the talk page constructively. They seem to have left. :-( Here's a passage from one of Sophie's long posts to me:
"If you were following what he had done from afar, and didn't blocked me after he had contacted you, but from your own judgement, so it proves that you have friendship with YBM, or you will have warned him or blocked him immediatly and even the days before.
What you are confessing here is that you knew what he was doing you knew it was forbidden and you let him do it and continue to do it day after day, and awaited together WITH him that I became angry enough to do or say something that you could use against me to block me, as you had arranged it with YBM."
Of course she was angry at having been blocked, nobody's forced to like the admin who does that to them, and she's struggling with a foreign language. Still, it's a little ludicrous. I intend to block her for a week, after several warnings, and will offer to unblock early if she shows any willingness to compromise. (I realize it's a dynamic IP, but it doesn't seem very nimble.) I just don't want her owning that talk page. Bogdanov Affair has been protected for quite some time, and discussion on the talk page needs to get a chance. (She has never edited any other page.) Bishonen | talk 01:12, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Sophie contacted me by email, apparently claiming that she was blocked from all wikis (I do not know how that can be true, but she also seems very unfamiliar with Wikipedia). From what I have gathered so far, her behaviour has indeed been quite unacceptable. I will try to explain the exact reasons to her, because at the moment she is just infuriated by what she considers an injustice. For the record, it should be noted that YBM's first messages to her on Talk:Bogdanov Affair have been "Please, Sophie go play your silly and lying game in the kindergarten, and learn how to indent", "Given the obvious mental illness of "Sophie SMJP", it is probably useless to insist on the fact every single word of this bunch of words is a lie, and Sophie a crank." and "in your ill mind you confuse every people who ever laughed at you - quite a few !".

YBM carefully forgot to mention his own personal attacks, such as this one, or edits comments containing "reverting psychotic garbage" or "→garbage - special subsection for Sophie, noone care, noone read the psycho", or his complete removal of all of Sophie’s contributions under the quite ironic comment of "removing personal attacks in compliance with Wikipedia policy" (note that when Sophie did the same he reverted, calling it vandalism). Though it does not excuse anything of her behaviour, I am not surprised Sophie lost her temper, being pushed like that. Maybe YBM (who is well known for his Usenet flamebaits) deserves a friendly warning, too. Sam Hocevar 20:47, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

It certainly sounds like it, maybe you could issue it, Sam, since you've read further back in the talk page history than I have? I would love to see interventions from other experienced users on that talk page altogether, because the contributors are pretty much all new. They seem to be here to edit and discuss that page exclusively, and they're anything but seasoned Wikipedians (though User:rbj is a notable exception). Sophie's not the only one having trouble with how things work, with NPOV, the protection policy, and such. Incidentally, if you notice Sophie complaining about my wiki e-mail function (sometimes that it's not turned on, sometimes that I lyingly pretend not to have received her messages), I don't know what the problem is there—I suppose there could be a technical glitch. I've never received an e-mail from Sophie. My wikimail has been activated the entire time, and other messages are getting through fine. Bishonen | talk 22:14, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
I warned them, and since I do not have a personal stance on the Bogdanov affair I told both that I would be glad to act as a mediator, if necessary. I’ll be watching the page and both users. I also suggested Sophie to register an account, since that’s probably the reason why her email to you was not sent. Sam Hocevar 01:36, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
Oh, right. It still seems anomalous, though, as e-mails from her have reached several other admins (you, for instance). Maybe she does use an account some of the time, or maybe the wiki e-mail function's just buggy. Bishonen | talk 15:37, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
Well, I still cannot know for sure, because her email was sent directly, not through the Wikipedia site. I believe she complained to an admin on the French Wikipedia for what happened here, and he gave her my address. Sam Hocevar 09:15, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Admin temper tantrum[edit]

...and I don't use the term lightly.

Admin Jtdirl recently tried to delete Wikipedia:Lamest edit wars ever, on the grounds that it was a Lame page used for POV pointscoring and attacking users. (In my opinion, it was really because he was losing a lame edit war on that page not to include a lame edit war involving himself. Have we gotten recursive enough yet?) Not getting anyone to agree with that charaterization, the vote failed, so he has apparently decided to use it as a lame page for POV pointscoring and attacking users regarding Elizabeth of Bohemia:

Elizabeth of Bohemia: A user unilaterally moved the page with raising it with anyone. An admin reinstated it and asked him to go through the usual channels in proposing the controversial naming. Instead he then went to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents to report her, against whom he had been making increasingly wild allegations for weeks, for supposedly abusing her powers in having restored the page to the least controversial location and having asked him to move propose its move the normal process everyone else uses

User:Khaosworks deleted this as being inappropriate, since the page is not intended as page for POV pointscoring and attacking users. Jtdirl reverted it. I deleted this as being inappropriate. Jtdirl reverted it, and left this lovely little message on my Talk page:

Look, you asshole, it is official Wikipedia policy that all edits of a banned user on all pages should be deleted without discussion, irrespective of what they say. It is also Wikipedia policy that users should not reinstate them and should not be reinserted under another user. BTW Official Wikipedia Policy pages are defined as "It has wide acceptance among editors and is considered a standard that all users should follow." Try reading the rules of Wikipedia before making a complete dick of yourself.

There will now follow, if he stays true to form, a 500-word defensive screed about how he's right (he's ALWAYS right, you see), everyone else is wrong, and anyone who disagrees is a "vandal".

How, exactly, did this guy get to be an admin? --Calton | Talk 02:14, September 1, 2005 (UTC)

Everyone can check whether Jtdirl has kept the promise he gave when adminned: [3] 08:30, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Is he an admin? I thought that was Jtkiefer? --khaosworks (talkcontribs) 02:24, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Both. [4]. --fvw* 02:29, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
This has nothing to do with me, so I don't know why my name was mentioned. Jtkiefer T | @ | C ----- 02:31, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
Well, you're obviously his sockpuppet, just as User:Khaosinfire was mine! I'm blocking you both indefinitely! --khaosworks (talkcontribs) 02:37, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Yes, he is an admin. The short tempered responses and behavior (reversions) by themselves are bad enough (if all of what Calton said is true). Edit waring on lamest edit wars is soo sad. Perhaps it should be delted just to prevent such fights. Are you going to open an RFC? This link is Broken 02:33, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Yup, I'm not quite clear why this is here, I'm not sure an RfC wouldn't be appropriate, but just listing it here isn't really going to achieve much I think. As for deleting the edit wars page, I agree it's not a good page to keep around, but the community, stupid as it is (not a personal attack, collective attacks are allowed, right?), has decided to keep it, so there's not much we're going to be able to do about that for the time being. --fvw* 02:38, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
I'm not quite clear why this is here It's called a "heads-up", a wider dissemination of information intended to reach admins who don't normally patrol WP:LAME or my Talk page. It's notification of the remarkably petty behavior of someone who, entrusted to be an admin, should know better, and I think little peer pressure is more appropriate than whacking him on the head with a blunt instrument like RfC. Using an RfC for this would be, well, lame. --Calton | Talk 02:50, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
Unless you're asking for administrator intervention, this is a matter for the entire community. If you don't want to use an RfC, we have several pleasant village pumps for your perusal. --fvw* 02:53, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
Foolish me, I thought that a page called "Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents" might be just the place to post a notice about an incident involving an administrator, in order to notify other administrators about the incident. Incidentally, what part of "peer pressure" was unclear? Since his peers are administrators, notice of an administrator incident should be placed where administrators might notice it and apply peer pressure, which incidentally seems perfectly in line with page entitled "Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents". Clear enough? --Calton | Talk 12:39, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
That would be even lamer. I'm just boggling at the behaviour now. Once I get over the sheer mindbending inanity surreality of it I may reconsider, but at the moment, I don't think so. It's just so... petty. --khaosworks (talkcontribs) 02:37, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
You know, if I was more paranoid, I'd think that Jtdirl was edit warring on lamest edit wars just to bolster his argument that it should be edited, when the PfD just failed. But no. That would be even more bizarre. --khaosworks (talkcontribs) 02:42, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Since nobody else has done so I'd just like to note the irony of having an edit war on The Lamest Edit War. Jtkiefer T | @ | C ----- 02:46, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
Well, it happens now and then. This present one is at least the fifth one. Actually, Jtdirl warred also an earlier one (or two?) Arrigo 02:49, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Urgh. Now Jtdirl has used the vandal rollback to revert Fvw on WP:PP and he posted the personal information of another editor (his name and home address) and reverted me when I removed it. I don't have to know anything about Jtdirl to know this is disgusting. Dmcdevit·t 03:11, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
Jtdirl has long had the habit of reacting quite aggressively to any edit he disagrees with. I have cautioned him about this in the past, but he does not seem to have heeded this advice. For those above who are wondering how he became a sysop, it is because he was promoted before the current system was in place. Originally requests for adminship were simply posted to the mailing list, and it was quite rare for someone to be rejected. There was a fair bit of debate over his nomination, which can be read in the May 2003 Wikien-L archives. - SimonP 03:44, September 1, 2005 (UTC)

No. Fvw deleted an entry I wrote in which I mentioned how I had had to lock my talkpage, yet again, to protect it from a stalker. While you lot are babbling to yourselves I'm having hazzle from a Wikistalker who has been vandalising my userpage, posting personal allegations on Wikipedia pages about me, vandalising articles which, when I defend from attack I get garbage written about me on the lame edit war page. The same asshole has driven one user off Wikipedia, abused another on his webpage, used 24 sockpuppets and is banned, yet you lot make a song and dance when his vandalism is, as required by policy, removed from pages. That same son-of-a-bitch, while posting allegations about me on and off Wikipedia, has now begun writing letters to Irish newspapers. If he has no problem signing his name to things, fine. Since he is so open, people can find out on my page, in a cut and paste from a letter of his already linked on Wikipedia by another user, who precisely the stalker really is. And I really don't give a damn whether you are offended or not — you try put up with a stalker on Wikipedia for months, and see how much you like it. You try getting the ArbCom to actually do something about him. (It took Jimbo to intervene in the end to get him banned.) I've had to lock my talk page (again) to stop the supposedly banned user from editing it. At this stage keep going with all your childish babbling here. Its not your pages that are being vandalised, not you that is having lies spread about and not you that is being stalked. FearÉIREANN\(caint) 03:35, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Sounds like it's time to deop him. Agriculture 05:01, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Does it? Does it really? I can't imagine the deliberative processes that would lead anyone to think that. Skyring, who was banned by Jimbo (to the universal relief of everyone who had ever encountered him), has stalked Jtdirl for months. He's not making that up–I blocked at least one Skyring sock myself and have often reverted his vandalism. What Skyring has done to Jtdirl is quite likely a prosecutable crime in many countries. If Skyring is really writing to newspapers (and I've no reason to doubt Jtdirl on this one), then what we are witnessing here is an incredibly serious situation in which one (former) Wikipedian is attempting to ruin another in the real world. This isn't some game, or some silly revert war. I'm troubled that Jtdirl is so agitated, yes–but I'm far more troubled by the sequence of events which led to this and the churlishness of those Wikipedians who seem regard the whole affair a trifle. Mackensen (talk) 20:08, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
It seems to me that Skyring was himself driven to extreme (and not necessarily justifiable) lengths by his treatment here: all his edits were reverted by Jtdirl, even when they were of uncontroversial quality, and he was eventually banned for an entire year, no matter how reasonable he tried to be, a penalty we normally reserve for the worst of editors. As I see it you have a case here where both parties involved went way overboard about the whole situation. It seems wrong to pin all the blame on just one side. Everyking 23:26, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Note - I just reverted (and blocked) a new user whose first action was to come here and detail every user I've blocked in last month or three. I did this because I suspect the user to be yet another Skyring sockpuppet (see User:GuaranteedTrue). Mackensen (talk) 21:41, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
And another one. I highly encourage consultation of the arbcom case. If need be, I'd be happy to figure out when I reverted (or blocked) Skyring. Certainly I ran across him often enough--especially when he was inserting nonsense into Australian governemnt articles. Mackensen (talk) 22:07, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
That's three different Skyring sockpuppets. I'll now clarify matters so that he'll hopefully leave well enough alone. Skyring is banned on Jimbo's orders. By policy and convention, anything that Skyring adds to Wikipedia must be reverted on sight. This is a long-standing principle. Every time Skyring comes on Wikipedia and mucks around with articles on Australian government, insults Jtdirl, or makes a fuss on a policy page, he's vandalizing Wikipedia. It was made explicitly clear by the community–through individual users, the Arbitration Committee, and eventually Jimbo himself–that Skyring is not welcome until/unless he gets his act together. If Skyring wants specific examples, I'll note that I've blocked three of his sockpuppets in the last two or so hours alone. In response to Everyking, Skyring and Jtdirl were both reprimanded by the Arbcom, but in accordance with their misdeeds. Skyring capped incivility and stalking with POV-pushing and factual inaccurracy–things most of us frown on. Talk page archives show that people were patient with Skyring until it became apparent that he was unwilling to work with the community. Mackensen (talk) 23:46, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Does anyone know if he has really left the project? If not I think some sort of further action needs to be taken about this. It sounds fairly severe. Everyking 08:59, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

Posting other people's home addresses or other RL contact information on Wikipedia without their permission should simply be a banning offense, no questions asked. Anyone who does it, thereby throws away their access forever -- simple as that. Doesn't matter if they're an admin, a developer, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster himself: using the wiki to harass or threaten others in this way for any purpose needs to directly and necessarily lead to a ban.

Can anyone suggest any reason this shouldn't be done? Any reason that a person who uses the wiki to threaten other people IRL should be permitted to continue editing? 'Cause I sure don't. --FOo 20:43, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

There's a case in front of the arbcom about that: User:ArmchairVexillologistDon published another editor's name during a content dispute, and kept on doing it, not just once. I agree that it should attract an instant, indefinite ban. The only thing I'd say here in Jtdirls' defense is that being trolled by Skyring must be a formidably depressing experience, and I agree with Ann that it's a shame more couldn't have been done to support him. I feel bad myself about it, because I didn't do anything, except post the occasional comment here. SlimVirgin (talk) 21:01, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
Once Deb is brought down, then it'll be time for Skyring to take Adam Carr and myself out. I await this with an especial trepidation. El_C 21:16, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
If he starts it on anyone else, I would like to be part of fending him off, so please let me know. My problem was I got confused by all the IP addresses and the prostestations of innocence. I gave the benefit of the doubt, which with hindsight was stupid. SlimVirgin (talk) 21:19, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
Well, in all fairness, the discussion on this topic makes it quite clear that few understand what a pervasive menace Skyring is. Jtdirl's actions only make sense in the context of months of stalking and harrassment. That it ever went this far is shameful. Mackensen (talk) 21:23, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
I agree. I wonder whether anyone has documented the harassment so we can at least be wise after the fact, which is better than nothing. SlimVirgin (talk) 23:34, September 1, 2005 (UTC)


Contd. from my comment above:Let's not forget nixi. I wasn't, being sarcastic above, just to make that crystal clear. Skyring is intelligent, creative, and of a highly determined mindset. I, for one, do not underestimate him, and I'm not sure if I could maintain Jtdirl's constitution for so long, I don't want to know. Three sockpuppet today alone: One, Two, and Third one rings familliar, perhaps, a homage (?) to this mailing list post by myself (specifically, this diff). So who is next, then? Maybe we should start a pool. Anyone? El_C 23:48, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

I'll go ahead and throw my hat in the ring–I'm sure he's most displeased that I came to Jtdirl's defense. We've collaborated for two years, off and on--how could I have acted otherwise? I'm a tad concerned that the community doesn't realize what a nuisance Skyring is. Mackensen (talk) 23:53, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't think he'll come after me, as I only briefly had dealings with him over the Queen issue, though I felt the heat of his displeasure at being contradicted. However, I'm prepared to throw my hat in the ring too in the sense of joining forces, so that's three of us so far to defend whoever's picked on next, and Jtdirl if he returns. SlimVirgin (talk) 00:03, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

Protection dispute[edit]

User:Jtdirl has protected his talk page citing persistant vandalism, though in my view all that has happened is two people warned him against making personal attacks. I unprotected and stated this, but he rolled back my edit to the protected page list and re-protected. I don't much fancy getting into a protection war, so could some other, preferably thusfar uninvolved, admin have a look at if this is within protection policy? Thanks. --fvw* 03:23, September 1, 2005 (UTC)

If you had bothered to look at the edit history of my page you'd see that it was nothing to do with you but to do with two sockpuppets of a user banned for a year of Wikistalking me, but who has still been able to run 23 sockpuppets here in the last month. Next time try reading before making allegations. FearÉIREANN\(caint) 03:35, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

For what it's worth, the two editors that (first?) warned Jtdirl were were NudgeNudge (talk · contribs) and SayNoMore (talk · contribs). Both are accounts created today, with six edits and one edit (the note to Jtdirl) respectively. I wouldn't be surprised if they were Skyring socks (a sock check from David Gerard might be of use) but they could also be random troublemakers.
That said, receiving a few 'helpful' remarks from anon IPs or new accounts doesn't strike me as warranting a page protection for vandalism. It's a talk page, not an article, and the socks or vandals will get bored and go away. It's also a bit troubling that Jtdirl removed legitimate criticism and comments from a number of editors in good standing (Khaosworks, Fvw, Calton) at the same time as he removed the socks' comments and protected the page.
Protecting his own talk page after posting the real name and address of another editor–even a banned one–also is just not on. Repeatedly reposting that information after it has been removed is, as Dmcdevit notes above, beyond the pale. This has the makings of a wheel war, unless everyone involved steps back and takes a bit of a break. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 03:50, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
The page is unprotected (and jtdirl appears to have indicated he's leaving the project). No need for further intervention, thanks. --fvw* 03:52, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
Skyring has now stooped to contacting individual users by private e-mail (through the "e-mail this user" link) giving them "proof" of Jtdirl's real identity. (Or to be more precise, he did it with me this morning; I wouldn't be surprised if he has done it with others, but I don't actually know.) I can't comment on what happened in the last ten hours — I was asleep when much of this was going on — but I think it's a pity that Wikipedia wasn't able to give more support to a victim of stalking and harrassment before this whole thing blew up. I am not defending Jtdirl, just pointing out that when people are subjected to what he was subjected to, the likelihood increases that they'll do things they shouldn't do. I think there was definitely provocation in this case. Ann Heneghan (talk) 11:29, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
You make it sound pretty sinister, Ann! Could you just confirm for your readers that the "proof" was this, as quoted from the previous section a few lines above: Everyone can check whether Jtdirl has kept the promise he gave when adminned: [5] 08:30, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
On following this link, one finds a submission to the WikiEN-l mailing list which is jtdirl acknowledging his nomination for admin status, containing the "From" line: "james duffy jtdirl at". You had previously speculated that there was no link between the two, and that this was the way Jim wanted it.
Let's stick to the facts, please! CarefulEyes 18:58, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
I wouldn't be surprised if he has done it with others. No surprise, then, to hear that he did it with me, too. It was to my home address, so I didn't get it until an hour ago:
G'day, Skyring here!
Could you take a look at [[6]], please?
I don't want my name and address published on Wikipedia, especially not by someone who continually abuses me.
Yours aye,
The link seems to have been deleted, so I have no idea what it's about or what idiocy Skyring was trying to rope me into, but given his plentiful supply of sockpuppets, wonder why he was trying to talk people into doing his dirty work. --Calton | Talk 12:29, September 1, 2005 (UTC)

Nothing to worry. I checked: Mark deleted some parts of earlier revisions to erase any mention of Skyring's putative address from archives. Quite natural (and justified) that the Skyring did not like its publication, and now Mark, an uninvolved admin, has taken care of that. Btw, in my opinion, Jtdirl's reactions towards alleged stalking etc are itself harmful - Jtdirl could live much better if he just ignored such. Guess Skyring and Jtdrl deserve each other. Arrigo 14:53, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm not sure that's quite fair, Arrigo. It's disorienting to have a troll after you, and what they do is try to spot your weakness and home in on it. Jtdrl's response to the harassment was all too human. SlimVirgin (talk) 21:22, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
Meh, but it's to be expected. Arrigo's been harrassing Deb for weeks. He also had the uncommon courtesey to drop an unfriendly note on Jtdirl's talk page. Whether Skyring liked the publication or not is irrelevant, of course–he was banned for a reason. "Alleged stalking" is a rather monstrous way of putting it–only someone utterly unfamiliar with the case or a pathological liar could see it that way. Mackensen (talk) 21:27, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Well said. Assuming goodfaith, I am of course inclined to consider it a product of the former. El_C 21:48, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

I removed the offending material from the page history using a partial undelete. I don't want anyone to interpret my actions there as support for either party in this dispute. And I certainly don't want to contribute to Jtdirl leaving Wikipedia; as far as I know Jtdirl has been a valuable user. - Mark 03:07, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

I still don't get why it's such a big deal who jtdirl actually is. He's entitled to a certain amount of anonymitity here on Wikipedia. That's why we have usernames, not actual names. I don't care if he is James Duffy, George Bush, or Pope Pius XII. He remains jtdirl, a loyal Wikipedia editor who was stalked off by a banned, disruptive, downright nasty troll. Bratschetalk | Esperanza 17:30, September 3, 2005 (UTC)


A couple days ago, this user popped up on my watchlist when he moved Solar system to Solar System (despite a recently failed move request, with which he was uninvolved). He'd also capitalized all the headings. I reverted and left him a message on his talk page. I popped by today to see if he had responded or what he'd been up to and found a whole bunch of page moves without any prior discussion. A number of them were to move articles to traditional capitalization style, not Wikipedia style and other departures from convention (like moving Vacuum cleaner to Vacuum Cleaners. Most, if not all, look to be inappropriate moves, but I lack the expertise to judge a few, and I hesitate to blindly undo all his moves without concurrence from others. And unfortunately I have to get to bed because I have to be at the hospital in a few hours; if anyone has time could you take a look and move some of these back? Thanks! — Knowledge Seeker 06:58, September 1, 2005 (UTC)

I consider this a prime example of "so don't do that" and am reverting them all. --fvw* 07:14, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
Done. Please check the location of your pet articles though, as it was rather a convoluted web. --fvw* 07:54, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
Does this have anything to do with the recent boogie at Chernobyl accident? --Carnildo 07:57, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't know, he did manage to find a lot of controversially named articles. Maybe he scoured WP:RM? --fvw* 08:03, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
Thanks, Fvw, for cleaning up after him. Much obliged. — Knowledge Seeker 22:28, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
How can a user with so few posts have moving privillages so soon after registering? isn't there some kind of waiting period before people can move pages?-- 00:32, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Did you refer the user to the Naming conventions? - 17:06, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Anon IP repeatedly reverting edits on Open gaming[edit]

An anonymous user using IP address (also and continually reverts content on the Open gaming page, frequently marking his edits misleadingly ('fixing typos', mis-identifying other edits as 'vandalism', etc) [7]. Attempts to communicate and request further dialogue on user IP talk page and edit comments are ignored[8]. Can anything be done about this? -Axon (talk|contribs) 09:49, 1 September 2005 (UTC)

You could request page protection here. --fvw* 09:56, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
Hi Axon, I've left a warning on the talk pages. Please let me know if it continues. Cheers, SlimVirgin (talk) 09:58, September 1, 2005 (UTC)
Ta, will do. Axon (talk|contribs) 09:59, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
This is a fairly longstanding edit war: the author of the "October Open Gaming License" has been trying to minimize or eliminate its appearance on that page for at least a year now. --Carnildo 18:47, 1 September 2005 (UTC)
Indeed, if this is the same user, when he couldn't get the content removed before he then resorted to "meat puppetting" for which he was subsquently blocked. His attempts to anonymously revert changes every few months seem to be a new tactic to remove the content "by stealth". I would also note that since his admin warning he has once again reverted content without discussion[9]. Axon (talk|contribs) 10:55, 7 September 2005 (UTC)


Can some action be taken at the Misandry article please. We have one abusive user and a possible sockpuppet introducing POV, making misleading edit summaries and talk comments, with multiple reverts; could either the page be protected temporarily or some action be taken against the user. This sort of behaviour is "sub-vandalism", and presumably is bad-faith -- should it be treated as outright vandalism? Thanks Dysprosia 00:18, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

  • Protected for now. Please discuss the merit of some changes on the talk page. Radiant_>|< 08:21, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

User:Jfdwolff & speedy of Knee (disambiguation)[edit]

_ _ User:Jfdwolff speedy-deleted Knee (disambiguation) for having "no information" and various other formulations, even tho (as i stated in my 2nd msg to him) G.1 and A.1 clearly do not apply, and refuses to cite or quote (to me, at least) any WP:CSD text justifying it.
_ _ Clearly my personality is an important part of the impasse that includes his replacement of our whole preceding discussion and another parting statement, and any RFC (such as he suggests) should not involve me, let alone be initiated by me.
_ _ I have, however, compiled the entire dialogue including the two msgs already mentioned (with annotations & lks as to where copied from), in order to save others the downloading of overwhelmingly irrelevant pages -- especially my still out-of-control talk page.
--Jerzyt 00:36, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

It is not Jerzy's personality but the somewhat bizarre approach he takes in questioning my actions as an admin. His tone is formalistic, the formatting stifling and his answers verbose and mechanical. I have given adequate reasons for the deletion (which was reversed at any rate). I would be most disappointed if Jerzy continues to harrass me and other users in this fashion, and find an out-of-control talk page a very poor excuse. I am not the first user to respond negatively to his inquisitive approach; this and this are examples. JFW | T@lk 01:00, 2 September 2005 (UTC)


It looks as though User:Skyring, having driven two people off Wikipedia by stalking, most recently User:jtdirl, and previously stalked User:Petaholmes (unsuccessfully), is now targeting User:Mackensen for a campaign of harrassment and abuse, with the sockpuppet User:AULDBITCH LOVES YOU. The nickname this "anonymous" (sic) user used was a nickname Skyring's other sockpuppets tried to insert into Dublin statues and their nicknames as a joycean reference to Queen Victoria. Though banned from Wikipedia for a year for stalking, Skyring has so far used up to 30 sockpuppets in 1 month in his stalking campaigns. This one appears to be his latest, and focuses on Mackensen because Mackensen expressed his contempt for Skyring's antics in blunt language following jtdirl's decision to leave Wikipedia. Does Wikipedia have any plans to deal with Skyring or is he going to be allowed to drive more people away through campaigns of harrassment, stalking and libel?


It would also be interesting to know if other users who criticised Skyring's antics have had other strange messages from IPs and new users since they left their messages about him recently. 02:03, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

The really unfortunate thing about this situation seems to be little that can be done about skyring beyong blocking the socks as they display characteristic behaviour. At rate he's going with socks his ban on ediing won't get lifted.--nixie 02:33, 2 September 2005 (UTC)

Given his continuing behaviour, should it be lifted at all, at any point? I'm inclined now to think he should be banned ad infinitum.--Cyberjunkie | Talk 05:38, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
One thing we can all do is add Mackensen's user page to our watchlist. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 19:43, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
The problem with year-long bans is they give a person no incentive to respect the ban. It's too far off; nobody cares about whether they'll be able to edit again next September or not. Now, if you give a person a week or a month, then they can see the light at the end of the tunnel and just sit quietly and wait. But with a year you're going to feel like you've got nothing to lose, so you might as well make it an all-out war. Everyking 04:00, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm honestly completely confounded by the whole issue and the more I read on it the more confused I get... it would be nice if there was a summary someplace Face-wink.svg Ryan Norton T | @ | C 03:24, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Ryan, you should start by reading Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Skyring and Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Skyring/Evidence. Skyring was involved in editing disputes regarding Government of Australia articles, and promptly went to stalking and harassing other editors he disagreed with. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 04:21, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Apparently, Skyring is not listed on the list of banned users yet. So I'll add him to it. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 04:39, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
Maybe User:Tern should be put there too? Maybe not? Ryan Norton T | @ | C 04:43, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't know where he'd fit on that page, Tern was blocked partially at my request since I didn't have admin powers to block yet, but I don't think he was a big enough disruption to be considered banned by the community. Maybe another category should be added to that list for cases like that. Jtkiefer T | @ | C ----- 20:14, September 2, 2005 (UTC)
Also in the interest of transparency of actions I'd like to note that I recently edited turns user talk page while it was locked to add the template:indefblockeduser and to add a note box regarding the permanant protection of his userpage. Jtkiefer T | @ | C ----- 20:24, September 2, 2005 (UTC)
Whoops, we'd forgotten to list him on AER; now added (see Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Admin enforcement requested#Skyring).
James F. (talk) 00:02, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Spamming?[edit] (talk · contribs) keeps adding somewhat unrelated external links to certain articles. Could an adiminstrator please take a look? --Ixfd64 03:50, 2005 September 2 (UTC)

Possibly inappropriate block: Uriah923 blocked by Dmcdevit[edit]

I received an email this evening from Uriah923 (talk · contribs · block log); it looks like it may have been sent some hours ago, so for all I know this has been dealt with. Anyway, I thought I'd post it here in hopes someone knows what is going on here and can deal with it appropriately:

I was recently blocked by Dmcdevit and this is in violation of the Wikipedia blocking policy. First, we are currently engaged in multiple disputes and the policy specifies that "users should not block those with whom they are currently engaged in conflict." Second, I have not committed any of the violations listed in the policy.
You have helped me in a previous similar matter by being able to approach the situation. I hope you can do so now.

Jmabel | Talk 05:25, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

Ugh, I was about to go to bed. Quick synopsis up to this point. I was in the process of reverting lots of external links to OmniNerd when Uriah showed up on my watchlist reverting back. So I blocked. It should have been a short shock block to get him to discuss, not revert back, but in frustration I did 48 hours. Taxman unblocked him only minutes later, and I have apologized for that aspect. There is now extensive discusion at that user's talk page, and mine, and User talk:MarkMcB and Talk:Muhammad and User talk:Taxman (a little). Anyway, the disputed action has stopped for now, and we're trying to discuss (I hope). I would appreciate if anyone could chime in and/or keep an eye on this. I had a feeling that MarkMcB and I were making progress in our discussion, but I've really got to go to bed now. Thanks. Dmcdevit·t 05:44, September 2, 2005 (UTC)
Good morning! I've thrown in my two cents worth at User:Uriah923/OmniNerd. --khaosworks (talkcontribs) 06:11, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
HEHEHH maybe time to take some of your own advice to heart, eh? Get some rest Dmc Shade.png. Unlike anther user I've dealt with this one sounds convincable on the notability point, which I think could be good. Ryan Norton T | @ | C 06:25, 2 September 2005 (UTC)
 :( *sigh* Wel, the block was actually only a momentary part of this. There's real discussion going on. Anyone can join. Dmcdevit·t 22:54, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, please do join in the discussion there as it has now been consolidated. It seems like we are making progress, but I would prefer some more to weigh in. Thanks, khaosworks for doing that. But just for the record, the block on Uriah was the correct thing to do, it's just possible Dmcdevit shouldn't have been the one to do it. Looking back though the "currently engaged in multiple disputes" characterization was pretty generous considering the only dispute was Dmcdevit reverting links that seem to be spam. Anyway, the block and unblocking seems successful, as progress is occuring. - Taxman Talk 15:12, September 2, 2005 (UTC)

No Legal Threats[edit]

[11] (preceding unsigned comment by Hipocrite 09:50, 3 September 2005)

A statement the one linked to above shows we need a project to coordinate and promote standards of decency on Wikipedia. Oh, wait, never mind. -- Norvy (talk) 17:07, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
How on Earth does he come to the conclusion that someone can be jailed for misbehaving on WP? ~~ N (t/c) 17:12, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Psy guy Doppelganger?[edit]

Our regular contributor Psy guy (talk · contribs) noticed that someone had created the account Psyguy (talk · contribs) with a confusingly similar name. The latter account has no edits to its credit, so I blocked it preemptively and left a polite explanatory notice on its User and User Talk pages.

I'm wondering if it's possible to find its date of creation; I'm curious about whether or not it's a 'sleeper' account set up for later WoW-style vandalism. It could also be a harmless coincidence, of course. Any other thoughts? TenOfAllTrades(talk) 17:15, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

I suspect harmless coincidence. It's an obvious-enough-sounding name that I can imagine two people independently choosing it. That said, there's also not much reason not to block it if it's never been used. Isomorphic 17:43, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Protection request[edit]

Could I get a fellow admin to protect Bagrationi? I can't make the article accurate with Levzur defending it, but he's even removing the dispute notice. If we let it sit protected with a dispute notice, maybe (hahahaha) he'll realize he needs to compromise... either way, at least if there's a dispute tag, people won't read it and think this is accepted history. Isomorphic 17:47, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Done. -- llywrch 18:29, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm confused. The page appears to be protected (it has a "remove protection" button in place of "protect this page) but Levzur was able to edit it, and I was able to revert his edit without seeing the usual "YOU ARE EDITING A PROTECTED PAGE" warning. What's going on? Isomorphic 23:32, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
That one's got me before until I realised that it's possible to protect pages for nmoves only. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 23:33, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
OK. So how do I (or preferably someone with no involvement on the page) change it to a real page protection? Isomorphic 23:36, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
It should work this time; I even logged out to verify that a non-Admin could not edit it. Sorry for the confusion, but it's been a while since I had to protect a page, & it apparently is not as simple as I remembered it to be. -- llywrch 23:48, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
If it has been a while since you last protected a page, you probably got hit by the fact that the "confirm protection" checkbox doesn't exist anymore. You probably are still used to checking the box below the input without even looking. A lot of admins had the same problem around the time of the 1.5 upgrade. --cesarb 14:02, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

ArmchairVexillologistDon (talk · contribs · block log)[edit]

Seems to be violating his temporary injunction on Talk:Canada (edit | [[Talk:Talk:Canada|talk]] | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). SlimVirgin blocked him for this a few days ago for this, but there's been no action since. ~~ N (t/c) 20:42, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

I blocked him for 48 hours per the temporary injunction against him. --Golbez 20:54, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

I'm withdrawing my RFA against him. This should mean the injunction is no longer in effect. Homey 22:01, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Much like the law, I'm not sure if that applies. That would work if it were an RfC, but this is an RfA. Either way, until the Arbcom says as such, it applies. --Golbez 22:05, September 3, 2005 (UTC)
If there's no longer a need for arbitration, there shouldn't be a need for an injunction either. Isomorphic 23:17, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
That may be the case, but until the Arbcom lifts the injunction (if the Arbcom lifts the injunction) ArmchairVexillologistDon is required to respect it. --Canderson7 23:23, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

HOTR has unblocked him. I hope this can be settled peacefully. ~~ N (t/c) 23:43, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Jim Ross[edit]

Lots of silliness in last hour or so from various IP's - strongly suggest admin protection --Doc (?) 21:36, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

I blocked the most offending IP and vprotected it. --Golbez 21:48, September 3, 2005 (UTC)


I have blocked User:AypeeESME and User:BrewCoffee, which I believe to be sockpuppets of User:Emico circumventing his ArbCom ban on editing Iglesia ni Cristo articles. —Theo (Talk) 21:47, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Account compromised?[edit]

Fender bender has been moved to Fender bender *No, fuck you, this account has a really dumb password, what kind of dumbass uses 123456 as a password I'll never know. Could someone fix that, and check the truth of the claim in the title on User:Barneybumble? At least, I think it was moved. Fender bender is currently not redirected: it was perhaps (dodgily) speedied and recreated. -Splash 22:54, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

The logs show it (and a bunch of other articles) were moved back. But take a look at that account's older contributions; some of them are downright strange (he created his user talk page fully formed, complete with discussions with other users!) --cesarb 23:03, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
After some looking:
  • The account has all the "look and smell" of an impostor account (the user and talk pages are direct copies of the mark's pages).
  • Most edits consisted of adding a "new messages" box with a link to the blockip page, pointing to the other account.
  • The account went silent for a while.
  • The edit immediately before the vandalism spree was to an AOL IP user talk page (testing if it works?).
  • Said AOL IP edited both user talk pages (the impostor's and the real user's).
Given all that, I indefinitely blocked the account as an impostor, and believe the AOL IP should be watched for a while.
--cesarb 23:19, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
I don't know what's going on. I've blocked Curps for 48 hours I'm watching the edits at the moment. Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 23:04, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
User:Pakaran says s/he has changed the password, and I think Ed Poor mopped up most of it. Strange account all round.-Splash 23:05, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
Whose password? Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 23:14, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
On IRC, Pakaran said they'd changed User:Barneybumble's password (or at least, so I understood) and commented they wouldn't be logging back in. Ed Poor said he couldn't fix the account without developer access. I don't know precisely what that means. -Splash 23:36, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
This account was apparently an attempt to impersonate User:Barneygumble.--Pharos 23:09, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
Wait, I'm confused. Barneybumble's account appears compromised so you blocked Curps ?? FreplySpang (talk) 23:12, September 3, 2005 (UTC)
I can easily explain that. I'm stupid! (I've undone the block) Theresa Knott (a tenth stroke) 23:13, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
Oh. Okay. Carry on. :) FreplySpang (talk) 23:15, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

And, by the way, we really need a better pagemove throttle. I propose that no user without account flags be able to move more than 1 article per second. --cesarb 23:24, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

I'd support not more than one every 10 seconds, even. How many legitimate tasks (other than reverting page move vandalism) require more than 6 page moves per minute? Isomorphic 23:34, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
Mass-renaming pages (for instance, from (movie) to (film)). But then, that can be done by a bot (with a flag...) or an admin (which of course has an account flag). I believe 1 per second would slow down a lot of the vandalism while having a low enough chance of false positives (even more if the only result of a false positive is a "slow down, cowboy!" message and having to retry). --cesarb 23:42, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Hi Theresa, I can't really complain, I blocked User:Who some time ago for the same reason (I didn't look closely and mistook his undoing of Willy vandalism for the vandalism itself).

For what it's worth, my autoblock bot was the first to block Barneybumble... I really think it's a practical necessity despite some folks' misgivings. Until we get pagemove throttle or some other permanent solution. -- Curps 23:37, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

Something very interesting here. Check out this timeline.

Barneybumble commits petty vandalism on August 11 and gets blocked. Weeks later he gets unblocked by Golbez, and just a few short hours later the unblock is detected by a test edit and a pagemove vandalism spree is launched immediately. For sure Willy's using a bot (as if the 75 pagemoves/minute weren't enough of a giveaway).

  • 17:49, 3 September 2005 Golbez unblocked User:Barneybumble (unblocking to prevent collateral damage to AOL; it's been a month)
  • 15:19, 11 August 2005 Golbez blocked "User:Barneybumble" with an expiry time of indefinite (Spamming articles with a "you've got mail" link that leads to the block page for Barneygumble.)

-- Curps 23:45, 3 September 2005 (UTC)

User:Jesus On Wheels[edit]

For your information: Jesus On Wheels (talk • contribs) has been blocked a few times for being mistaken as Willy on Wheels, even though this account's contributions so far have been legitimate. This user has asked us on his/her user page that even though the account will most likely lead to more blocks, (s)he would still like to keep the username, and thus is asking us not to mistake him/her for Willy on Wheels again. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 00:01, 4 September 2005 (UTC)


WonderBread (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) moved Wikipedia:Zap to Wikipedia:POINT. Given his contribs, I suspect sockpuppetry most foul. This "Zap" thing is already shaping up to be the next WfD-level shitstorm. ~~ N (t/c) 00:54, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Seems to be up to some weird page moves too.--nixie 01:04, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
It's like a subtle Willy crossed with an abusive anti-Zap sock. BLOCK NOW FOR THE SAKE OF JEBUS. ~~ N (t/c) 01:06, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
Okay, this is really freaky. He's creating a lot of useless redirects that need to be deleted. What's The Point(tm)? ~~ N (t/c) 01:13, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Blocked for 1 hour, but I really do not care about the block length. Feel free to temp unblock and reblock for as long as you think it should be blocked. --cesarb 01:14, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Indefinitely. No useful contribs AFAICS. ~~ N (t/c) 01:15, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
I have just done that. That account's pattern of edits before the present day strongly suggest it's the well-known annoyance who goes by the nickname of "Willy on Wheels". --cesarb 01:24, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
More like a WoW wannabe, but I agree with an indefinate block.--nixie 01:25, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Note to account patrol: it's probably a good idea to check for accounts matching "Bread". --cesarb 01:27, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Also see User talk:WonderBread. -Splash 01:29, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Too funny. His knowledge of what we are talking about here only shows we're right. --cesarb 01:38, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
well, this page is not exactly hidden. Naturally WoW is watching the cries of desparation uttered here, with glee. No, the only solution is "martial law" style technical solutions (like pagemove throttles), and, of course, finding Willy (physically, and/or legally). Wikipedia may, of course, have to enter a prolongued state of "martial law" anyway on 1 October, if the ominous Messenger lives up to his threads in any way. dab () 08:22, 5 September 2005 (UTC)


SPUI (talk · contribs · block log) (See contribs)

Just got done reverting many changes by this user, in which the user puts an image an on the page, with the edit message (I have brought Toby here because he is lonely.). User did it to another person's user page(s) though, which makes it seem like borderline vandalism. On one of the pages the user spammed, the user put the message "kindly fuck off." in response to another user's criticism of a page in the previous edit... so I suspect the user only spammed pages he didn't like...-

Ryan Norton T | @ | C 01:12, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

It's SPUI. Just ask him to stop. --cesarb 01:28, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

OK, thanks. Ryan Norton T | @ | C 01:47, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Just so you know, SPUI is a long time, good contributor. But once in a while, he sometimes loses it and gets into one of those silly phases... then he gets back to normal. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 02:50, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
  • Looks like he's implementing the WP:TOBY proposal, which basically calls for people to put the Toby image on any pages they object to for any reason, so that other people won't see those pages any more (through a requested software feature that hides all pages containing that image, and makes it impossible to remove the image once in place). In other words, a censorship policy. Maybe some people should go to that proposal's talk page and explain why it's not a good idea. Radiant_>|< 08:02, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

On a related note: TOBY (talk · contribs) (thanks Nickptar). --cesarb 16:40, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

New WoW pattern[edit]

The last two PM vandals edited Wikipedia:Non-main namespace pages for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Wikipedians for Decency on August 18. It might be a good idea to look at other accounts which edited that page around that date. --cesarb 02:43, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Freakishly enough, EagleEyedScout (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) moved my RFA. Personal grudge for reporting his likely previous sock (#User:WonderBread)? ~~ N (t/c) 02:50, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
Well, I've just gone Curps and blocked all the sockpuppets which matched that pattern (only edits on that date, edited that page, have a user and a user talk page created by themselves). If you think I'm wrong, revert, but I'll say "I said so" if I turned out to have been right. --cesarb 02:54, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. Nice work catching the pattern. — Dan | Talk 02:56, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm this --> <-- close to starting a petition for the developers to implement page move throttling (if you want to do more than 1 move in 2 seconds, you should stop and think what you are doing). I'm sure such a petition would have a unusually high amount of signatures. --cesarb 03:04, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
Yes. Yes. A zillion times yes.. This has gone on long enough! ~~ N (t/c) 03:05, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
See bugzilla:1454 for complaints. Dragons flight 03:23, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

Some of the recent ones started with !, I believe, so as to show up on the first page of Special:Listusers (the rest, of course, was obscene and/or personal attack). I propose blocking all users with that pattern, although the vast majority can probably be usernameblocked already. Just another thing to check for. ~~ N (t/c) 03:05, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

I've already username-blocked basically all offensive accounts that start with "!". I'll do another complete scan tonight. --MarkSweep 03:21, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
  • As long as you don't mind accounts ending in a "!" :) Radiant_>|< 08:03, September 4, 2005 (UTC)
    • What if Radiant! is WoW and he's just been playing along all this time so he could get admin rights, and then he's going to go on a rampage and be unstoppable since he can unblock himself too. Can we please get a a developer here quickly to de-sysop and block him, or better yet erase all trace that Radiant! ever existed? Soon! :) Dmcdevit·t 08:07, September 4, 2005 (UTC)
  • Oh noes! You're onto me! But now I shall call upon by cabal connections to replace your orange juice with artificially-colored milk! Muahaha! Radiant_>|< 16:00, September 4, 2005 (UTC)
    • And so Radiant! is revealed. He ends every sentence in his last post with a '!' — a sure sign if any were needed. He can almost certainly be blocked for a lengthy period for trying to demonstrate experimentally the point that it is ok for every sentence to end with a '!'. -Splash 16:51, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
  • No, guys, seriously, Willy is trying to stay one step ahead of us. The only way we can stop him from this junk is to trace him and contact his ISP when we nail him. Jimbo has given the ok for "drastic action", so maybe it's time for us to counterattack? Titoxd 03:49, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Another one for MediaWiki:Bad image list[edit]

Image:Flaccid and erect human penis.jpg - most recently used to vandalize Hurricane Katrina. It's inlined at Penis, though - perhaps a much smaller version should be inlined at penis, with a link to the big one. ~~ N (t/c) 03:02, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

I think you wouls struggle to get agreement on Talk:Penis.Geni 07:03, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
The vandal in question has used several nonrelated IP addresses, it is quite probable that he/she is using an anonomizer or IP spoofing. -Loren 07:36, 5 September 2005 (UTC)


§ (talk · contribs) is weird. Of the 105 edits this account has made in its 2 week existence, 90% were page moves. But, remarkably, this user actually seems to be trying to be useful. Aside from the fact that several of the moves have interfered with WP:RM or broken naming conventions, most of the moves seems have been intended to be helpful, even aligned with talk page discussions. You might think that because this user contribs show him or her almost never editting pages, that this must be leaving a lot of double redirects and other problems behind, but you'd be wrong. Checking several of the pages showed that after the move an anon showed up to fix links (several different IPs were used). So, it appears that someone created an account just to do a series of more or less helpful page moves while otherwise editting anonymously.

Aside from getting this person to be wary of breaking naming conventions and/or stepping on the toes of WP:RM, there is not really a problem here. However, in the Willy climate of page move wariness, I thought it important to call attention to this account since it seems to exist almost exclusively to move pages, and probably bears some watching. Dragons flight 09:16, September 4, 2005 (UTC)

their user page history is odd.Geni 09:29, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
I agree it is quite unusual for a genuine new user to be so focused on page moves. Perhaps this is a role account? I agree this bears watching. Jonathunder 16:11, 2005 September 4 (UTC)
As I understand it, anons can't move pages, so it might simply be that this person wishes to edit anonymously, but must login to make page moves from time to time. I agree with Geni, however, there was a very persistent vandal attacking the user's page, which seems weird given the very little page-editing this account does. Func( t, c, @, ) 16:35, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

User:Francis Schonken[edit]

User:Francis Schonken repeatedly adds his accusations to my userpage. Has been warned [12], but has continued. The addition itself is ridiculous: Francis Schonken wants repeatedly add an allegation that my username is a sockpuppet of an IP address. (By definition, IP address is not a username, thus it cannot have sockpuppets - or vice versa). Besides, sockpuppet is not anything directly forbidden. Additions of the sockpuppet allegation are imo personal attacks, and Schonken has obviously very deliberately chosen the place (the userpage) where to put them. As Schonken seems very obstinate in his drive (up to the point that Schonken does not do almost anything constructive in Wikipedia), and he clearly does not heed warnings, it is up to admins to consider whether he deserves e.g blocking. Arrigo 09:31, 4 September 2005 (UTC)


Every one of Istina (talk · contribs)'s edits has been vandalism from the day they first started editing on August 31. I just caught several unreverted vandalisms from that day. Has been warned, I will block on the next vandalism. Zoe 07:22, September 5, 2005 (UTC)

Gregory Lauder-Frost entry - Nazi comment[edit]

It was brought to my attention sone time back that you have a Wikipedia page for me. Thank you very much and it is quite accurate, I would say. Someone has done a fair bit of research. However, over the past week someone has deliberately placed a sentence saying that "some say he has Nazi sympathies". Despite removing this, and despite a note being added to the discussion page, the poster has continued to reinsert it.

I regard this as positively libellous and disgraceful. I have never had any Nazi sympathies nor have I ever been associated with anyone or any group which had. Your pages are supposed to represent fact rather that weirdo opinion.

The thing is, if I posted on someone's Wikipedia entry "that some suspect him of being a paedophile" how would this go down? What is the substantial difference. A deliberate smear is just that - a smear, designed to get people thinking in that direction.

I would appreciate it if you could block the person doing this.

I am not entirely IT literate and your endless pages of instructions simply confuse me utterly.



If a claim fails to be propperly documented, attributed, qualified, etc., it should be removed as uncited, unsourced, and original research. I am not familliar with this particular claim, nor the article in question, just as a general observation. El_C 10:02, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
Just a quick followup to Mister Lauder-Frost's querry: the last nazi sympathies edit was entered one week ago. Will keep an eye on it. El_C 22:39, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
I've added the page to my watchlist and will revert any unsupported allegations that appear there in future. Demiurge 08:41, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

the "nazi" diffs: [13] [14]; interestingly, the comment on the talkpage is signed "S. Gladstone". dab () 13:01, 6 September 2005 (UTC)


Please ban this user as soon as possible. He/she is repeatedly editing System of a Down related articles (Mezmerize and Hypnotize) by removing information that he/she is fond claiming that it's incorrect; it's not. He/she is also one of those IP address users who have edited on them a long time ago:

And the question is: Does this guy ever stop? No. Especially when he/she continues to ask me to site a source behind my back by threatening to break the 3RR. My point is "I really don't care what he/she wants me to do". -- Mike Garcia | talk 15:50, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

How hard-headed this guy is beging! I agree that the user does deserve a ban. 16:20, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
Resorting to your usual sock-puppets, Mike? Pasboudin 16:27, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
Those were actually your IPs, Pasboudin from a long time ago when you edited System of a Down related articles (Mezmerize and Hypnotize). They sound like you and it was you! -- Mike Garcia 16:29, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm not denying it, it was me. I have an account now. Pasboudin 16:33, 5 September 2005 (UTC)
See, that's why you should not post, Pasboudin. -- Mike Garcia 16:34, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

User:Mike Garcia has been just been blocked for 24 hours for his violation of the 3RR rule [15]. The above post by "Mike Garcia" was made by User: Pasboudin 16:36, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

User:Mike Garcia block evasion[edit]

User:Mike Garcia is evading his 24-hour block with one of his famous sock-puppets, AOL IP User:, at System of a Down. Requesting help please! Pasboudin 23:19, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

Hey, who you talkin' to, jag-off? I ain't Mike Garcia! I thought he told you you shouldn't post! Just do what as he says, leave. 23:21, 5 September 2005 (UTC)

User:Erwin Walsh removing my comments from other users talk pages[edit]

[16] [17]

Hipocrite - «Talk» 02:11, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Mandy Moore-obsessed vandal[edit]

It seems that we now have a Mandy Moore-obsessed vandal, as several IPs keep inserting text from Mandy Moore into either totally unrelated articles or creating new articles with titles that are totally unrelated to her. I suspect that this may be another long term vandal that we have previously encountered before like MilkMan, because some of the pages that were created by this Mandy Moore-obsessed vandal include:

Zzyzx11 (Talk) 06:46, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

I think he's stopped now. It must have been past his bedtime. Or else I blocked every address he could edit from. Zoe 07:05, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

Ugh. I guess I spoke too soon. :( Zoe 07:18, September 6, 2005 (UTC)
Seems to have either stopped or decreased considerably. I haven't caught any of that for a while now. Everyking 07:47, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
Also: I don't think Zoe should be blocking these IP addresses. He seems to discard them and use new ones every few minutes, so that doesn't seem useful and may disrupt others' editing. Everyking 07:50, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
Er, and she's blocked IPs for months and years. Could someone take a look at that? (bedtime) Dmcdevit·t 07:54, September 6, 2005 (UTC)
In cases like this I believe it's best to not give the vandal "a name" by all of us using the same block comment (i.e. "Mandy Moore vandal"). When he sees the same block-comment from many different admins I think it only helps to encourage him to continue and become a wikipedia celebrety. "I am the famous Mandy More vandal!!!111!". I've used the slightly degrading "Mandy More obsessed kid" myself, but whatever helps him realize that what he's doing is simply just stupid and childish and not cool at all. Shanes 08:07, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
If you want to unblock him, go ahead, but I wash my hands of the whole thing. Zoe 08:08, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

I agree with the point on vandal-naming. Many of the lessons on dealing with trolls also apply here: some of these vandals crave attention, and the usual recommendation is to not give them the satisfaction of seeing their exploits highlighted in any way. Especially vandals who switch IPs/accounts frequently should be blocked only after a considerable delay (unless, of course, they start to actively vandalize), and with a neutral, generic block summary. Immediate blocking only serves to encourage them to continue playing hide-and-seek/whack-a-mole. --MarkSweep 08:20, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

<shaking head> So we should allow obsessive vandals like this to have their heads and attack as many articles as they feel like doing? For how long? Half an hour? An hour? All day? Zoe 08:29, September 6, 2005 (UTC)
The problem is that the IP blocking doesn't seem to be effective at all, and could very well cause collateral damage, especially when you block for extreme lengths of time. But if it actually worked I certainly wouldn't object to it. Everyking 09:05, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
No, that's not what I meant. Obviously, if someone is actively vandalizing they can and should be blocked. What I was trying to say is, if someone is merely creating sleeper accounts (like you-know-who) without (yet) actively vandalizing, then there is no urgent need to block them right away. That will only encourage them to create more accounts. --MarkSweep 09:12, 6 September 2005 (UTC)


See Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Nazi Connection to Islamic Terrorism. AI (talk · contribs) has indicated his intention to disrupt Wikipedia. Zoe 08:43, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

One important step forward would be to get the arbitration case moving again and to include AI's recent editing behavior in the evidence. --MarkSweep 09:01, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Legitimacy of Chris 73's blocking of Witkacy[edit]

Chris 73 blocked me 2 days ago and violated the Wikipedia:Blocking policy. Please see here for details. Thx. --Witkacy 11:44, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Anyone who's unfamiliar with what's being referred to, please refer to the huge red-outlined area at the top of Talk:Gdańsk to see what Theresa is referring to by the Gdańsk compromise. Tomer TALK 11:58, September 6, 2005 (UTC)
Witkacy appears to have inadvertently left off some of the discussion thread from his talk page, particularly my response containing my reasoning for supporting the block: [18]. Because I thought that the block might be controversial, I posted a report of it at Wikipedia:Account suspensions; please see Wikipedia:Account suspensions/Witkacy.
I note that in Witkacy's absence, the edit war ceased and the other editors at Georg Forster were able to hammer out an equitable compromise on the article's talk page. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 12:25, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
Chris also asked to block an other user (involved in the same dispute) [19] banning of all opponents in a dispute, seems a strategy of Chris...--Witkacy 12:38, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
Witkacy again removed lots of double naming against community consensus (more than 2/3rd support for double naming). I have blocked him again for disrupting Wikipedia. I have also asked User:TenOfAllTrades to look into the issue again. -- Chris 73 Talk 14:57, September 6, 2005 (UTC)
Space Cadet unintentionally violated the rule just as I've done, Witkacy, which I pointed out on the 3RR of Space Cadet too. A double-standard-beset Witkacy had asked to block me just as Chris later asked to block the self-proclaimed "lawyer" of yours, Space Cadet. Why didn't you mention it? Why do you never tell the whole truth? That constant not-telling-the-whole-truth even made Shauri angry although she is a reasonable editor and not known for quickly getting angry or angry at all. Your fault if you get banned for intentionally violating the Gdansk/Danzig naming rule again and again like a berserk but were you trying to discuss? No. "Problem editor" is a complete understatement when referring to you by the way. It's like Shauri advised you: you're like a football fan whose team has lost and crying about it doesn't help anything. At grammar school a book for the subject German had to be chosen - 9 votes for 'Faust', 8 for an easier book called something like 'Steinkreise'. Guess what book was chosen? Those who voted for 'Steinkreise' complained but they gave in seconds of a few minutes later because they were not unreasonable and pig-headed. You? You'd go through hell only to violate the Gdansk/Danzig ruling and only because of A NAME! When Chris warned you not to violate the ruling again or you'll be blocked (just as the ruling's notice suggests). What did you do? You deleted his warning, libelled him on his talk page and continued your senseless fight which Merovingian judged as "the most ridiculous disagreement on the Internet, ever". What option did you leave Chris other than blocking you? You LONGED for it, you deserved it, you got it. Cry another day. And while you learn to avoid bias (I hope) next time, don't forget about headlines.NightBeAsT 15:08, 6 September 2005 (UTC)
In my opinion, the decision by Witkacy (talk · contribs) to return to Georg Forster (not to mention at least a dozen other articles) and once again remove the German city names from the article constituted poor judgement about which he has been frequently warned before. Repeated attempts to reignite the Gdanzig naming conflict and spread it to other articles are to be discouraged. I'd appreciate a third opinion on this, however, as Witkacy seems to believe I am some sort of puppet of Chris 73.
On a positive note, I would like to thank User:Lysy for his persistently reasonable attitude and efforts to mediate many of the discussions on this topic. I wish all the participants in the debate were so calm and rational. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 15:29, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Personal attack at Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Barbara Schwarz[edit] (talk · contribs · block log) wrote a pretty nasty personal attack at Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Barbara Schwarz. I deleted that page; feel free to undelete if you think I shouldn't have. It seems to have some relationship with the discussion currently ongoing at Talk:Barbara Schwarz. --cesarb 20:11, 6 September 2005 (UTC)


Not sure if this is the right place to report this – please move it if not – but I'm wondering about Christians (talk · contribs). The contributions seem to be just adding links to articles, and the user talk page seems to be an example of using Wikipedia space for personal ends. Ann Heneghan (talk) 07:34, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

User:Ta bu shi da yu deleted his userpages[edit]

User:Ta bu shi da yu has deleted his userpages, with the comment "Gone. I no longer exist", apparently over the GNAA FAC debate plus the infobox conflict here. See also Talk:John Vanbrugh. Without wanting to seem callous when somebody's upset, I note that you're supposed to ask somebody else to do it, and to create a redirect to avoid the red links all over the place, see the userpage speedy criteria. Bishonen | talk 07:49, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

  • What can be be speedy deleted: User and talk pages on request of the user, where there is no significant abuse, and no administrative need to retain the page. A redirect (to the user's new name, or to Wikipedia:Missing Wikipedians) should be created to avoid red links and confusion.

I said it with RickK and I'll say it now. Ta bu's talk page is needed to retain useful discussion as he's been a very active user in the past. Deleting it would make all the discussions it would include inavailable. - Mgm|(talk) 09:00, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

It's already been taken care of, see WP:AN.--nixie 09:11, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

User:Pigsonthewing's userpage[edit]

Pigsonthewing requested permanent protection of his userpage last night[20]. I checked it out and there was an edit war there[21], so I temp protected it. I just looked again, and now I see 3rr was also violated, but I'm really doubting that a block would do much good to solve this. It'd probably just make them more mad. This is all over the Stalker heading, which says:

In the light of his rejection of my offer of mediation and his abusive admission that he is stalking me, not to mention other abuse, I feel that I'm entirely justified in concluding that User:Leonig Mig exhibits no good faith. Accordingly, I will not be responding to his posts on my talk page (or elsewhere), nor his demands that I justify my edits to him (nor, indeed, to any such posts made by people acting as his proxy).

Obviously that's not very nice, but should it be removed? What do you all think about it? Leonig Mig left a message on my talk page stating his opinion[22], I replied on his to say that protection is not an endorsement of a particular version of a page, that edit wars aren't cool, that I'll ask for other opinions, and that if he's actually tried dispute resolution, that maybe he should try rfar.[23]

What do you think? --Phroziac (talk) 18:30, September 7, 2005 (UTC)

if he's actually tried dispute resolution He hasn't; and he's rejected my offer of mediation. Have you read the abuse I cite? Andy Mabbett 21:26, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
Ok. Yes, I've read it, but that's only one side of the story :) --Phroziac (talk) 21:31, September 7, 2005 (UTC)
Well, now you've read his side, you should be able to find mine, on the relevant talk pages and edit histories. BTW, my request was not for permanent protection, but indefinite. Andy Mabbett 21:37, 7 September 2005 (UTC)
Ok, but indefinite still isn't a good idea. ;) --Phroziac (talk) 22:19, September 7, 2005 (UTC)
I unprotected the page, as per a suggestion by Talrias on IRC. I'm assuming good faith that Leonig Mig will stop fighting over it in this way, and I intend to block him for 24ish hours if he abuses my trust. --Phroziac (talk)

In my opinion, Andy Mabbett has repeatedly harrassed other users, of which this is just the latest example. User:Nick Boulevard is another of his targets. Andy treats other editors in a way that appears to upset him when he receives similar treatment and he seems unable to see the parallels. He has a tendency to make unexplained reversions, repeated reversions at a rate of just 3 per day, terse responses to requests for explanation, snide or derisive talk page comments and edit summaries. Two editors have privately confided that they do not wish to participate in an RFC about him because they are frightened of his response. Nick Boulevard has hinted on several talk pages that he suspects Andy of harrassing him anonymously outside Wikipedia (although I may have misinterpreted these comments) and one of the two private correspondents has indicated that they fear something similar happening to them if Andy sees them participate in an RFC. On this specific issue, Leonig Mig has explained his distress to Andy about Andy's behaviour. He has asked Andy to stop specific behaviours. He has inflicted the offensive behaviours on Andy to make his points. He has asked Andy to remove the hurtful insinuations that Andy has kept on his user page. Andy was unsympathetic to any of these approaches. Leonig Mig then started the futile process of removing the distressing text from Andy's user page (when he knew Andy to be a serial reverter). I have twice asked for other admins to support me in my dealings with Andy. There has been no visible response to either request. I conclude that I am being oversensitive to his behaviour and it is one of the reasons that I have reduced my wikiactivity over the past fortnight. I know that Andy has been harrassed unfairly on usenet over matters unrelated to Wikipedia but I see this as no excuse for his behaviour here. —Theo (Talk) 00:23, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Wow, I never knew it was that bad. The making exactly three reverts per day part especially bothers me. --Phroziac (talk) 17:35, September 9, 2005 (UTC)
Theo's allegations against me are a nauseating tissue of hearsay and lies; include a breach of confidence; and are against policy and unbecoming of someone in the position of an admin. As to me being a "serial reverter" of my own user page..! Andy Mabbett 09:03, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Charitable causes VFD[edit]

Wikipedia:Current charitable causes has been placed up for VFD. Raul654 has removed the VFD notice from the page because the page is linked from the site notice. I can sympathize with his desire to keep such notices off a page linked from every page in Wikipedia, however the admin who added the VFD was well aware of the implications. Furthermore, Raul had two possible ways to achieve his goal. He could have removed the sitenotice, or he could have removed the VFD notice. Considering that the VFD is currently 2:1 (i.e. 75%) in favor of delete, Raul made the wrong decision. The site notice has been both supported and opposed by Wikimedia board members, so the only guidance available is from the community. It is clear that a substantial portion (and likely a substantial majority) of the community opposes this notice. Please re-add the VFD tag in conformance with our VFD policy. --Gmaxwell 01:49, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Done, but I'm only doing it once. I don't want to get into an edit war with very high-profile members of the community. JYolkowski // talk 01:59, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm quite saddened by that message. Do not be afraid to stand up for what you believe in, and do not be intimidated by other users, no matter how "senior" they present themselves - no-one's voice is any more or less important than anyone else's. (Although not wanting to engage in edit wars is a very noble thing.) Dan100 (Talk) 08:17, September 8, 2005 (UTC)
On a related note, the Mediawiki:Sitenotice currently does not include the link to the page. However, the site notice currently on the top of my page now does have the link. I've purged, and it's still there? Is this a bug due to a Mediawiki message edit war? Bratschetalk | Esperanza 02:16, September 8, 2005 (UTC)
Weird, not sure. Looking at the sitenotice history, there hasn't been a link to the page for two hours... JYolkowski // talk 02:31, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Bot-made vandals[edit]

Just usernameblocked the following. Seems Mindspillage has attracted a fan club. Might want to watch out for these types of bot-made accounts at the new user-creation log. If bots are making accounts at fast rates, this might become a great problem.