Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive498

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Adding original research, edit warring, personal attacks[edit]

I wonder if someone could have a word with anon editor (talk · contribs). He/she has repeatedly added original research and (I believe) synthesized research to I Am the Walrus (here, here, and here) despite the policy being explained in both edit summaries and on his/her talk page. In doing so, he/she has also edit warred. He/she also made a personal attack in this edit summary. He/she is also adding POV to the same article. Thank you. Ward3001 (talk) 06:15, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh, poor baby. Did Daddy and Mommy Wikipedia make your hurt booboo better?

grow up, asshole. get a a life ... and get out of your wheelchair.

Hey, everybody, look!: -- it's the Church Lady!!

Oh can we mister, mister please, can we please, mister .... sorry we hurt your field, mister

Here are the very dangerous and horrible, most horrible TWO SENTENCES that this asshole dickhead is trying to censor (what fun he would have been under Zhdanov ...) (look it up, O ignorant one):

"In an amazing coincidence, Lear IV.6. is the only scene in all of Shakespeare (out of more than a thousand) that features both English homonyms for "Beatle." In other words, the Beatles randomly added, in "real time" "found art," the only scene from Shakespeare that features both the words "beadle" and "beetle"."


Please, wikipedia -- IGNORE assholes like this guy. THIS GUY tried to prevent TWO SENETNCES from being posted on an ENTIRELY IRRELEVANT SUBJECT. He is suitable for Stalin, not for THE USA. Enough. Buh-bye, Ward 3001. our day is done. We are tired of you. You contribute nothing.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 11:30, 6 December 2008 (UTC) 
Above editor's day is indeed done for 31 hours. I haven't blocked the first IP address but if it gets used for the same purpose it should be blocked (IMHO) dougweller (talk) 12:51, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Let me add a couple more points:

  • First, I think (talk · contribs) and (talk · contribs) are the same person. They edit from similar IPs, from the same city, and with the same ISP. Both have edited only a single passage from I Am the Walrus. And now (talk · contribs) has made his second personal attack in this edit summary (the first attack is linked above).
  • Secondly, this/these editors are using a Shakespeare concordance to identify statistical data, which he/she then uses to reach a novel conclusion: "In an amazing coincidence, Lear IV.6. is the only scene in all of Shakespeare (out of more than a thousand) that features both English homonyms for "Beatle."" That seems clearly to be original research; the citation is not to a source that discusses any coincidence between Shakespeare and I Am the Walrus; it is only to the search engine's statistical results. This has been pointed out to the anon editor(s) without any response other than reverting and personal attacks. I also consider the uncited phrase "Amazing coincidence" to be original research. I hope this helps clarify. Thanks. Ward3001 (talk) 16:23, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
As I've indicated, I agree that they are almost certainly the same editor. I've blocked the one who posted most recently. dougweller (talk) 17:04, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
And the author left out another amazing coincidence - that in the very same scene, the Bard has the players saying "Loveth me doest", "I am want to holdeth thy hand", and "Why doth we not doest it in the road?" Eerie, ain't it? Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 17:18, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
  • We really, REALLY need a new block reason: "Personal attacks IN ALL CAPS made on a page full of administrators. Diagnosis: lack of clue, possibly fatal. Recommend high-speed transcortical ball-peen therapy." Or for the Shakespeareans amongst thou: "Bangeth, bangeth, Maxwell's silver banhammer".GJC 20:40, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[edit]


Just a heads up - an IP was blocked this morning for spamming links to - I first thought that it was just run of the mill spam but it's actually a GNAA browser hijack site - if you see it, as well as reverting it, please warn people not to check out the URL. --Cameron Scott (talk) 11:28, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

More than one - #####ot net. Is it on the blacklist yet, and should we contact oversight o'er this? -Jéské Couriano (v^_^v) 11:33, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Both now on the blacklist. Black Kite 12:38, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
You only get the GNAA thing if your ip has been added to their ban list. Second, in instances where someone's clearly attempting to promote visibility of their website, it helps not to post it on the most visible part of ours— ANI. :P --slakrtalk / 12:40, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I've removed the link; this oldid has it if you really want to find out what it is. Stifle (talk) 12:46, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Why was the reason more than 1 IP was blocked bowdlerized? -Jéské Couriano (v^_^v) 20:19, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
My guess would be that it had something to do with vegetable matter.GJC 20:30, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
For what it's worth there used to be a Last Measure article. I don't recall whether or not it listed other urls to avoid, but if so this could be a rare case where deleting the article caused a site's traffic to increase. Once upon a time everyone knew better. If you edit at work or in any other non-solitary environment, the best approach might be to disable javascript by default and then turn it back on for trusted sites on a case-by-case basis (and only if you can't get by without it). — CharlotteWebb 20:55, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Also see the section below. --Rschen7754 (T C) 20:33, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Commercial book[edit]

Resolved: User already blocked. --Smashvilletalk 17:01, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Most of this person's edits are linking to a commercial book, in dozens of sites. Please look at their logs. They were blocked twice for 24 hours by someone, but are back again, spamming away. Dream Focus (talk) 15:49, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

They've already been blocked at 13:45. --Smashvilletalk 17:01, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
"expiry time of 24 hours" That's isn't really a block, that is just telling them to take a break and start up again tomorrow. They exist only to spam(over 90% of their edits). They got a warning before, but after their 24 hour block wore off, they went at it again. Do you have a list of places formerly linked to by spams, which a bot can then search wikipedia for, and determine if a lot of new links to those sites has been added, especially by unregistered users, which might be worth investigating? I think that'd be a useful feature to have. Or if someone has linked to the same site at a dozen different places, they should send up a flag, for someone to look into and determine if they are spamming, or if they found a book so helpful it had information they felt useful in a dozen different articles. Dream Focus (talk) 17:42, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
We don't apply excessively lengthy blocks on IPs because, while right now it's being used by a spammer, they might not be using it in a few days. The IP has made constructive edits before.[1][2][3] EVula // talk // // 19:15, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Kuebie/Emperor Wu of Han[edit]

Kuebie (talk · contribs) has been removing Chinese transliterations and replacing them with Korean ones from Emperor Wu of Han (on names/places of disputed Chinese/Korean origins) and refusing to discuss the matter further. (I've requested that instead of removing Chinese, that he adds Korean; he/she refused.) I'm requesting that someone else review this, protect the article if necessary (I do not believe it necessary at the moment), and, to the extent necessary, block Kuebie for a short duration. (He/she is also fairly frequently incivil and also edit wars/warred on a number of other articles.) I am not doing these myself because I believe that it may be inappropriate for me to do so. --Nlu (talk) 17:12, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

User:I B Wright[edit]

I B Wright (talk · contribs) has had a history of arguments and insulting another user. This was pointed out and when this was escalated to a personal attack and harassment, a warning for personal attacks was given. I B Wright has today repeated the same behaviour,[4] and I've blocked him for 3 hours for harassment / personal attacks with a suitable explanation.[5] A review of this block will be welcome. . . . dave souza, talk 19:21, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Only three hours? Tan | 39 19:28, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Since I'd given the previous warnings, it seemed a good idea to stop immediate harassment and hopefully prevent future incidents. If you think the diffs warrant a longer block right away, feel free to amend it, but my hope was to stop the misbehaviour with a minimal block. . dave souza, talk 19:40, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
I B Wright? No, U B Wrong. Endorse block. GJC 19:42, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Associated press[edit]

See here DriedOut (talk) 19:50, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Personal attacks from blocked editor using public IP[edit]


The temporarily blocked editor and sock puppeteer Kikbguy (sock report here) is using the public IP address to make personal attacks against ZimZalaBim and myself at this AfD discussion (specifically, saying that that user and I are "threatened" by his information and are abusing him). I didn't want to report this at AIV because it's a public IP, but could a schoolblock or something be arranged? —Politizer talk/contribs 19:46, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Never mind...the user has already moved on to other IPs. Given how frequently he is changing locations, there's probably no merit in pursuing a block; instead, I'll just continue to keep my eyes open and revert him when necessary. —Politizer talk/contribs 22:03, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

  • I have adjusted my initial block of Kikbguy and blocked them indefinitely as a Sock Puppeteer. If you continue to see new accounts or anon IP's that are certainly Kikbguy feel free to come back to my talk page for assistance. Please also come to my page if you wish me to consider blocks of the current list under the Sock Puppet thread detailed above.--VS talk 00:03, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Allegedly "fake and slanderous" userpage[edit]

Resolved: Page speedied per G10. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 00:16, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

See Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Kenneth Sikes and my talk page. Perhaps this should be speedied instead? — CharlotteWebb 21:01, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

  • Already speedied. Probably rightly so. Bucketsofg 21:29, 7 December 2008 (UTC)


Resolved: Mattsayshola indef. blocked for disruptive editing by PhilKnight. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 00:15, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Hey I'm Dean West. A user of the name of Mattsayshola[6] keeps making the sandbox say really rude things and making personal attacks within it. Please help me ASAP. Here are some examples:[7]


--Dean West (talk) 23:21, 7 December 2008 (UTC)Dean West

User:Raven in Orbit block[edit]

Following up on this discussion. Basically, after he attacked others with "LOL, yeah! You pedo POV-pushers are really having a good time here! LOL, cool! Glad you people like Wikipedia! Hehe, LOL!", I warned him to strike it out and not do it again. In response, he added it back twice plus on his user page. I have blocked User:Raven in Orbit indefinitely. I would hope that nobody lets him return without demanding that he not do it again. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 22:36, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Ah but is there a grain of truth in it? Sticky Parkin 23:06, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Can we stay away from that? I mean, really. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 01:16, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I was wondering, is there a way we can unblock after a while, and just topic restrict him or something? Only he has been blocked on the swedish wiki for similar problems, but these are not the articles he usually edits. He has over 11,000 edits to various quite high-brow articles [9], and doesn't make a habit of this paedo malarkey until recent months. Sticky Parkin 04:13, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I would gladly. I just want him to first acknowledge that he shouldn't do that. It's indefinite not permanent. If he apologizes right now and says he won't do it again, he should be unblocked. Totally. However, when he admits it was done as WP:POINT violation and starts playing the "I was making fun of the type of contributions you give not you personally" bit, I was not amused. If he had something just as uncivil but probably not as controversial, I think I would feel the same way. If someone else wants to unblock him, go ahead but make certain he understands that insulting others (regardless of what) isn't appropriate. If you want to topic restrict him, fine, but make sure he agrees to it. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 04:39, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

removal of sourced text Child sexuality[edit]

Resolved: IP blocked 24h for WP:3RR violation--Aervanath lives in the Orphanage 06:21, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

At Child sexuality they are two editors, that keep removing sourced material from This is from Humboldt-Universität zu Berlin .It's full of ph'ds and awards. Basicly the problem, is that it sais that haitians, where very liberal about sex .... and plus some stuff about how sexuality was going on with there children. They comme up with some lame excuses, that "remove self-published source" "This is based on self-published materials that have not been corroborated. is open, and anyone case purchase space on it". Very little digging demonstrates, that it's reliable source. It's an obvious case of prudism and bigotery-- (talk) 22:54, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Turns out the lame excuses aren't that lame. The server's entry page [10] states clearly that any institution of Humboldt University, including students' organisations and political organisations, can purchase space on the server. The main page of the archive seems to identify it as self-published by Prof. Erwin J. Haeberle. Please make your case on the talk page. You might want to point to this page which identifies the directory in question as being web space rented by "Magnus-Hirschfeld-Zentrum, Archiv für Sexualwissenschaft". Your case seems to rely on the scientific reputation of Haeberle and the Magnus-Hirschfeld-Zentrum. This is a content dispute. --Hans Adler (talk) 23:19, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
PS: The website may be a red herring anyway. The material is from a book: Janssen, D. F., Growing Up Sexually. Volume I. World Reference Atlas. The publisher (Books reborn) seems to be very obscure. Perhaps it is self-published? In any case I would only take such old ethnological reports with a few drachms of salt. --Hans Adler (talk) 23:32, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for checking into this - report continues:

3RR violation by dynamic IP[edit]

I request admin help to revert the IP's violation of WP:3RR in regards to the above report. Two editors who have reverted him so far do not want to be seen as edit-warring.

  • Version reverted to: [15] - that was in August when another established editor correctly removed the unreliable source and related content.

The IP clearly has some sort of non-neutral agenda and no interest in collaborating. Since the IP is dynamic, the 3RR violation can't be stopped with a block.

I request that the Child sexuality page be semi-protected for a while, and that the IP's latest edit be reverted by an uninvolved editor (unless someone has already reverted it).

If the IP is willing to register for an account, we can debate the reliability of the source on even ground. But with a dynamic IP engaging in edit-warring, there's nothing we can do without admin help.

I don't want to clog this page with more detail, but if anyone is interested, I can provide further information upon request showing that the source is self-published, not notable, and not reliable.

Thanks for your help. --Jack-A-Roe (talk) 02:18, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


Consist (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) is (claiming to be) an author who has published on the subject of Cladistics. He was reminded of the issues with original research and that his work was not discussed in secondary sources, but he persisted in edit warring until it got him blocked. He's been back as (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log).

He'd been generally benign lately, other than a few personal attacks today. However, in his latest talk-page comments, he's admitted his intent to edit war, saying certain editors "have to be defeated by brute force. In this battle..." [16] He's also declared his intent to edit the article with a series of IPs from "a mobile internet connection." [17]

As a result, I'm expecting a flurry of activity to Cladistics and related subjects in the next few days. I'm debating whether a pre-emptive protection of the article is in order. (I have no qualms to protect it reactively, of course.) —C.Fred (talk) 02:18, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

That IP looks like it's static--I'm inclined to indef it, but want a second opinion on whether or not it's static before doing so. Only edits are to cladistics-related topics. Blueboy96 02:36, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


Resolved: Noise has drowned out signal here; thread about one editor's misbehavior being hijacked by political argument. -- llywrch (talk) 07:38, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Orangejumpsuit (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log), recently blocked, engaging again in tendentious editing, incivility, edit warring, etc.

A quick review of his recent edits should make it clear, but if you want a summary...After being warned many times by me and others for this behavior, comes off block to immediately edit war to remove material he sees as negative from Henry Hyde,[18][19] he claims as retribution for the Barack Obama article being too full of praise. Responds to warnings on talk page with accusations of me being a "THUG" and such on my own talk page[20] and his. Please be careful in reviewing his talk page because he has been manipulating it to remove warnings, retitle headings to make them accusations against me, etc.[21][22][23][24][25][26] In principle he can do what he wants on his talk page so that is not the problem behavior itself, only a showing that he is on notice of a possible block, he has vowed to continue, and all attempts by me and others to reign this in have failed. If I fix the Henry Hyde article again he will revert again, or carry on his pointy disruption somewhere else. Also, he is a new WP:SPA created in August to disrupt the Barack Obama / Sarah Palin articles and by all appearances a possible WP:SOCK. Wikidemon (talk) 03:09, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

This is example of thuggery, in which wikedemon does not agree with me, so he threaten me with banning with this [27] Sad, you can't win argument here [28] about equality of political bios so you threaten and harass me instead.
This guy is on a power trip and should be stopped.Orangejumpsuit (talk) 03:29, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Obviously, my warnings are not helping the situation so I won't issue any more until we deal with it... to avoid inciting an edit war I'm also avoiding reverting the edits (I'll clean it up once we're done).Wikidemon (talk) 03:36, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Its obvious your "warnings" were just bold face threats, bulling, and harassment. What every you like to call them, the net results is to chill those who disagree with you when your augments not strong enough to stand discussion so you revert to ad homuium, and threats, which you so kindly have cataloged.Orangejumpsuit (talk) 03:42, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
They are warnings, like the sticker you see on the top rung of your ladder not to stand on it. I cannot stop you, but the warning puts you on notice so that if and when you do get on trouble for your edits it is not without fair warning.Wikidemon (talk) 03:49, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
What you simply call "Warnings" are in reality uncivil threats and incivility in order to chill the augment and attack me ad humiuim. I presented an augment and you personally attack me. That very uncivil and to have the gaul to say I attacked you.. thats a bold face lie and you know it.Orangejumpsuit (talk) 03:55, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
This is certainly troubling. I think Orangejumpsuit needs to avoid these sorts of edits which do appear to be clearly about making a point. He directly claims to do so in his edit summaries... 03:26, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I guess treating all the Political biographies, equally, is not a wikipeidan concept. Should only some Biographies be treated with different in terms of Style, content, and tone??? Or are you against this concept and whikpedia should be war ground where the Left gang should war with the Right gang and the one who has the numbers, admins on their side should win??? does MIGHT make right? Is it the gang that wins get the spoils??? Or, should all protect the fairness of the political bios, not because you like me or hate me or like or hate the subject of the bios but it's the right thing to do? This is the issue I stand on and wikidemon and others like them want it to be a place of political attack and those that stand in the away of this agenda shall be harassed and baned?Orangejumpsuit (talk) 03:38, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
The jumpsuited one has reacted to disagreements on edit questions with incivility; he repeatedly characterizes warnings about inappropriate language as "threats"; etc. His summaries and posts to talk pages display a lack of assumption of good faith and a failure to maintain a neutral point of view on the political topics which seem to be his only interest. --Orange Mike | Talk 03:41, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Putting words in my mouth is not very nice... The question I am aruging is that all political biographies should be treated equally. If you are against that, then wikipeida is just a bias political blog, with out the value of fairness and balance which all the people of the political biographies deserve. This drama is proof that this may not be the ultimate goal of wikipeida, but only a place where political gang war flourish , un checked and enabled by thos like you... Orangejumpsuit (talk) 03:47, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
PS to Orangemike, your cheeky "the jumpsuited one" is more poof of incivility and you chilling the agument. Whats good for you is not good for me? oh well? Orangejumpsuit (talk) 04:00, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I think he was trying to clarify he was talking about you, not himself, as your usernames are somewhat similar. \ / () 04:15, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

I blocked him for 1 week. What I haven't seen mentioned anywhere is that OJS was just released off of another block just a few hours ago and began this editing again. I figured the fact that he started so immediately warranted a longer block. --Smashvilletalk 04:54, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Good block. I endorse it fully. He's just trying to pick fights... 06:15, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
The editor's talk page is an interesting read if you want to see a flame-out. Block is now extended to indefinite. Wikidemon (talk) 21:41, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I blanked it and protected, per Wikidemon's suggestion...if nothing else, he made a legal threat at the end...can someone stick a template on there...I know there's one, but I can't find it...--Smashvilletalk 21:42, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
{{indef}} on the user page. It is a pretty good flameout. Did he eventually rid wikipedia of its "bios"? Protonk (talk) 00:38, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

uptight and a bit pugnacious perhaps. But his points were well-taken. On the Henry Hyde page he found at least one blatant example of NPOV. The Obama article is a campaign mailer. The difference between the treatment of Republicans and Democrats here on wiki shows a bias bigtime for the Dems. The Republicans have their scandals amplified while the Democrats have their idealism amplified. I think someone should mentor him in Wiki civility etc, not just block him. We could use one or two more Conservatives on wiki. Tundrabuggy (talk) 03:59, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

The difference between the treatment of Republicans and Democrats here on wiki shows a bias bigtime for the Dems. Uhhuh. You might be interested in Conservapedia. They don't care about NPOV. Little Red Riding Hoodtalk 05:18, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
No, we don't need "one or two more Conservatives on wiki", what we need are honest editors with the ability to be impartial while editing. Cries of "their side is treated better than my side" ring hollow, and false. Tarc (talk) 13:06, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
really not so hollow if you listen with an open mind. I don't get too involved with politics, but the sense that the pres-elect is messianic is inescapable. You certainly won't get that impression reading the bios of the conservatives, ;) Tundrabuggy (talk) 16:47, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Nobody of any serious consideration is calling him a messiah, except the ones on the right who want to mock him. Maybe the public is just excited to get a President who won legitimately. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 16:50, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Of course not. Most liberals mock religion and particularly Christianity. Perhaps that's why they find it difficult to see that they are approaching this new legitimate president-elect with the same uncritical fervor and support that a Christian might reserve for his messiah. I celebrate the fact that America is mature enough to vote for a "black" man for president; however, I am not uncritical of this particular, inexperienced and singularly unknown man, Barack Obama. For all our sakes, however, I certainly hope for the best. Tundrabuggy (talk) 04:09, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
"Most liberals mock religion and particularly Christianity" ? You pretty much invalidate yourself from the discussion with inflammatory BS like that, IMO. Tarc (talk) 04:12, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

So this is resolved, then? Jolly good. Perhaps someone could add a note to that effect. // roux   04:16, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


User Badagnani (talk) has shown consistent disregard for etiquette principles on Wikipedia with his interaction with other users. The latest incident involves violation of Wikistalking guidelines and User space harassment guidelines against user Jeremy. As I have previous interactions with Badagnani, my enforcing any proper warning beyond what I have done would constitute a conflict of interest. I have asked him to remove the comments and he refuses.

Examples of the edits are:

I would appreciate some assistance in the matter.--Chef Tanner (talk) 19:32, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't see any personal information, stalking, harassment, or incivility in any of that. Complaints about your editing practices do not constitute personal information. If you are referring to something else, please clarify. Looie496 (talk) 19:45, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
I agree with Looie496. I have interacted with Badagnani before and I know s/he can be rude, but I don't see any policy violation in the above edits. —Politizer talk/contribs 19:50, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Taking information from another user's talk page (Jeremy had deleted it from his talk page and Badagnani had to go back through Jeremy's edit history of his talk page to get the information) and placing it on numerous other articles is not a policy violation based on Wikistalking? It is being used in order to defame Jeremy so that the constructive project he is undertaking can be dicreadited.--Chef Tanner (talk) 19:55, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Please bear in mind that the people reading this probably know little or nothing about the history of these articles or editors. Anything we need to know to understand this, you have to tell us. It's nice that you're keeping it short, but you're keeping it too short. In particular, how does this defame Jeremy, who isn't named in any of that? Looie496 (talk) 20:12, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

I will add that the above user has also engaged in what I perceive is disruption in AFDs by repeatedly calling for the banhammer on users for "disrupting our project" (see [29], [30]) and has been warned about it repeatedly (see [31], [32], [33], [34]). —Preceding unsigned comment added by MuZemike (talkcontribs) 00:01, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I would like to comment:

Badagnani and I have a history. On several occasions we have butted heads over several proposals, changes and moves that I have made or things he has done in the time I have been working on WP. While he has made significant contributions to the project, many of them very productive and of a high quality of work, too many times he has allowed his passion to overrule his better judgment. In these instances I learned that he has a unique set of behaviors that he falls back on during these instances:

  1. The language he uses in his summaries and postings is often misleading in its nature, he attempts to portray himself as a victim of abuse or correcting aberrant behaviors of rogue contributors. He uses words such as blanking and consensus freely in these postings, often when other contributors are correcting his changes or simply editing an article he is taken to. A prime example of this is the Korean cuisine article where he had placed a great deal of inline commentaries into the body of the article. Several editors, including me, removed this commentary and warned him against restoring it. The result was a 72 hour block on him for edit warring.
  2. He is very aggressive in maintaining the status quo of articles and templates, often to the detriment of change. He will pursue his point of view even when there is a clear consensus against him, often to the point of edit wars.
  3. On several occasions Badagnani has resorted to wiki-stalking those whom he disagrees with. I was personally one of those individuals on the subject of Herbs related articles and templates this July. In this case he repeatedly attacked my work on the {{Herbs & spices}} template for two days, attacking my changes to the format of the template, inclusion and exclusion of articles, and ignoring request for an RfC if he did not agree. This dispute became rather heated and I admit I was not on best behavior either, using harsh language, making snap decisions, and venting my frustration with him in a way too public manner.
  4. He uses passive aggressive behaviors that often end up angering those dealing with him.

I have seen some really great work from him, and have even praised those contributions. It is incidents like this one that really piss people off. He posted an accusation of me canvasing on half a dozen talk pages, launching a spurious argument that had many holes and half truths. When these problems were pointed out to him, he changed the argument, or ignored them all together. The so called canvasing was me notifying other individuals who had commented on similar articles of the ongoing discussion at Talk:Cuisine of Cambodia regarding the proposed move as well as posting the discussion on the WP:FOOD project page. The notification was neutral and I posted to all of the individuals that had not commented on this article, regardless of the position they held. The problem is that Badagnani was the only dissenting voice in these discussions.

Chris is sick of this, I am sick of this and so are dozens of other contributors all of whom have been the recipients of his attacks. I know I am not perfect and have made some mistakes, some of of them doozies, how ever I have never done the things he has accused me of.

I will admit this is a vent and is rather biased due to the negative interactions he and I have had in the past. Please view his behavior in context and also consider how his behaviors diminish the good work he has done. --Jeremy ( Blah blah...) 09:31, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Dynamic IP question: blocking?[edit]

I've filed a sockpuppet case involving several IPs (plainly a dynamic IP) and placed notes on the various talk pages. Today, an IP of the same series —, see its contributions— that hadn't edited previously blanked all the talk pages that I'd notified, and it participated (along with several other IPs of the same series) in making productive edits to Roxbury, Wisconsin. Because has been blocked for vandalism (by blanking those talk pages), and because one of the 12-series IPs has stated that it is the same person with a dynamic IP, is it right to block all the other IPs from editing until the block on the first one is finished? Nyttend (talk) 15:28, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

The IP was blocked for blanking its own talk pages after it had read the messages? That doesn't sound like the best reason for continuing the block. What action would help improve the encyclopaedia most? -- zzuuzz (talk) 15:44, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

WP talk page guidelines clearly state: "Users may freely remove comments from their own talk pages, though archiving is preferred. They may also remove some content in archiving. The removal of a warning is taken as evidence that the warning has been read by the user. This specifically includes both registered and anonymous users." —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 20:06, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

One IP was blocked for removing sockpuppet notices from the talk pages of other IPs in the same series. Is it really permissible to remove sockpuppet notices? The block was administered by Tanthalas39, while its sock-notice-removing was undone many times by Jeff G.. Nyttend (talk) 22:20, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to edit-war over notifications and instructions for someone suspected of sockpuppetry, after they have obviously been read by the person they were intended for? The answer to your question is probably to ask whether the blocks are preventing damage or disruption to the encyclopaedia. You are instead making them sound punitive and disruptive. -- zzuuzz (talk) 22:38, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
I've always thought sockpuppetry tags were meant more for the community as notification that all is probably not as it seems. // roux   22:45, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Well, whatever you think of restoring such notices, don't look at me as the one who did it: all I did was leave them in the first place, just as I was filing the case. My opinion is more like Roux's view; are you, zzuuzz, saying that you believe we're wrong? I'm not objecting to the idea of you disagreeing, of course :-) but would prefer that you say yes or no on Roux' idea, so that I could understand better. Nyttend (talk) 04:45, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
I thought I was being fairly clear - whether it's right to block a dynamic IP user who is contributing constructively to the encyclopaedia is really a matter of common sense. It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with you - I'm asking you what would be more constructive and less disruptive. I would wager some other course of action would. -- zzuuzz (talk) 10:18, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for reply :-) Nyttend (talk) 13:04, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Users Nigh8, 2legit2quit2,[edit]

Resolved: For now anyway - an admin blocked the IP for a week

A small but growing hosiery farm. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 22:15, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

From, I suppose, a close-knit community. PhGustaf (talk) 22:25, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Darn it all anyway! Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 22:26, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Sock puns? Say it ain't sew... HalfShadow 02:38, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Probably related [35]. cygnis insignis 08:53, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
And since blocked by an admin. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 14:00, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Sheikh Mohiuddin Ahmed[edit]

Can someone please look into this article: Sheikh Mohiuddin Ahmed. It was deleted because it was a hoax with no google hits at the time. It has been removed because I was called a vandal and my actions were closely watched - I was the one who had it deleted in the first place. Even if he did excist, which I still doubt (unreliable sources?), I do not think he is notable enough and hereby request a thorough searcg for it or a permanent deletion. I redirected it for now - feel free to restore it if you like. Jouke Bersma Contributions 09:51, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

First of all: how reliable are the given sources?

Second: how notable is he, as a unknown, seemingly unimportant candidate, who was not even succesful in the first place? Jouke Bersma Contributions 10:06, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I undeleted it, with permission of the deleting admin. The person would seem to exist (the article is sourced). The sources aren't great by Western standards but don't seem to be unreliable. The article has an assertion of notability (perhaps a bit thin). The article doesn't qualify for speedy deletion and the redirect doesn't seem useful (so I've cancelled it). Admins can't adjudicate on non-speedy deletions here, so you should follow the standard AfD steps and make your arguments in the appropriate forum. ➨ ЯEDVERS a sweet and tender hooligan 10:12, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
That is fine to me. The thing is: the only reason I think the page has been undeleted is because I was envolved in it's deletion. Because some editors have made me look like a disruptive vandal, editors started digging up every singly edit I've done here and they came across a perfectly well done article deletion and undeleted it just because I was envolved - if anyone else would have got this article deleted (and many others would have, eventually), it would remain deleted and nobody would give a damn. That is the point I am trying to make here. Jouke Bersma Contributions 11:20, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
I see your point; however, the article doesn't appear to be a hoax and there's an assertion of notability in the article, so the nomination for speedy delete was incorrect in the first place and the deletion was probably wrong too. It's not going to be speedy deleted again, so AfD is the place to go if you're convinced it needs deleted. ➨ ЯEDVERS a sweet and tender hooligan 11:23, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

It has eventually been deleted by speedy deletion, correct. But iniatially, the article went trough a proper AfD procedure. Because there were no hits and Mgm and me were convinced it was a hoax, the article got speedied. Jouke Bersma Contributions 11:28, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Seriously, it was not a hoax. If it was a hoax, then the Bangladesh Electoral Commission was in on it. This seems unlikely. :) Given that, it wasn't (and isn't) a candidate for CSD. I'm sure your initial nomination was done in good faith, and I have no hassles with that. At this point AfD seems like an option, but I'd recommend letting the article sit for a bit and let the discussion on the talk page proceed, as it is likely to end up being a merge/redirect to Liberal Party Bangladesh, once it is confirmed that there are no Banglaesh sources that can be drawn upon. - Bilby (talk) 11:47, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Bilby, I must agree with you on that. I will continue watching the page and its discussion regulary. I will not go to AfD until january 2009, that I promise. I have no objections to a merge\redirect in the way you suggested. Thank you for your time, I am sure this whole mess is solved now. I'll be working on articles I make on my pc now - I'll post them as soon as I think they fit. See ya! Jouke Bersma Contributions 12:06, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Jouke, why did you make this quite uncivil and completely incorrect edit (summary)[36] when you were by now well aware that the person definitely exists and that pictures are potentially available? See e.g. [37] or even better [38]. Wouldn't it be smarter to just say "oops, not a hoax after all" then to attack the person who corrected your "rror" and then to go after the same article with incorrect claims again? Fram (talk) 12:15, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Okay fram, I was wrong and it was no hoax after all, just unkown and not notable. And maybe he turns out to be notable after all, wouldn't that be great? I will continue watching the article closely but and I will not go to AfD for it until january 2009, agreed? Jouke Bersma Contributions 12:19, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Got a clone going[edit]


Move log, appears to be a haggar clone at work. Yngvarr (t) (c) 12:39, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

The admins are working on it. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 12:42, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Redvers mentioned WP:DENY in the edit summary, which basically means don't dignify these character by calling them by name, as it simply feeds their egos. Just coolly and calmly clobber their "work". Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 12:48, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Help with revering vandalism[edit]

Some user has recently vandalized dozens of articles by changing the title. Can anyone help me undo all this? Here are his contribution list [39].--Megaman en m (talk) 13:27, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Scroll up two sections. // roux   13:32, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Thanks.--Megaman en m (talk) 13:41, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


Hi. User:Dbachmann is an admin yet his conduct in Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac people does not seem to me administrative at all.

  • First, he removes any dispute or NPOV tag from that highly disputed article without any justification or edit summary at all. He has done that repeatedly.
  • Second, he really behaves there as if he owns the article. He has been removing important, sourced information added to the article without justification. The identity section has 6 different sources yet he has been removing it repeatedly. When asked why, he referred to a web page that is actually one of the sources whose quotations he has been deleting. He also keeps referring to the page Names of Syriac Christians though the information he's deleting is not there. I suspect that he does not really read the things he deletes. The sourced information in the identity section talks about when did each name of the Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac people appeared and how, with references; the page he refers to does not include that.
  • Importantly, he refuses any kind of mediation. When I filed a page move request, he deleted the request tag from the talk page and also deleted a section from the page in which I laid objections. When the administrators came he didn't seem to cooperate at all. When one of them moved the page, he overrode his move and threatened him with blocking him. I filed a WP:MEDCAB request, he disregarded that and told the mediator that he regards himself a mediator, so he refuses mediation and that's why I'm here. HD86 (talk) 12:37, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Have you informed Dbachmann of this discussion? seicer | talk | contribs 12:59, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

How? Should I tell him I'm complaining of you in the noticeboard? He would delete it anyway. HD86 (talk) 13:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Note at the top of the page: As a courtesy, you should inform other users if they are mentioned in a posting (you may use the {{ANI-notice}} template to do so). BMW 13:36, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
I've notified him on behalf of HD86. // roux   13:42, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Honestly I'm scared of putting that on his talk. He threw me out when I was there once, I can't go again. HD86 (talk) 13:45, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

This one rings a bell, I think both from WQA and here. This time, no angels will get their wings. BMW 13:20, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Related WQA here which was closed due to ANI. There was, of course, a huge ANI recently about an unrelated issue about Dbachmann. BMW 13:28, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't totally understand what you say, but when I say "Assyrians" are extinct people this wouldn't be an offense against anybody, it is just a fact. Look it up wherever you want. Anyway, my complaints are not about that but are strictly about deleting tags and information from 6 different sources without wanting to explain why. HD86 (talk) 13:38, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

BTW, I was called names by Dbachmann too. He called me a troll and called my edits "random ranting" and stuff (though it was referenced random ranting). However, this is not what I'm complaining about. HD86 (talk) 13:59, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm not seeing the complaint here. You seem to have a habit of blanking your talk pages and comments on numerous instances, and was called out for that by Dba. I noted that you have been given a recent 3RR notice, and several notices for edit warring and etc. You were also recently indef'ed for making legal threats, but this was reversed when you retracted the comment.
Going further, there seems to be a lot of incivility on the part of user:Gabr-el (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) at Talk:Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac people#SCREW IT.2C LETS JUST SPLIT IT ALREADY.21. On the article itself, HD86, you seem to have a habit of linking to or referencing unreliable and fringe sources, or sources that make no explicit definition of what you are trying to cite. Saying others have a mental illness is not what I call conductive discussions. seicer | talk | contribs 14:20, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Great, so now we're discussing my personal history and habits instead of what I talked about. I'm not going to comment on any of that, but I find the fact that you classify references such as the Catholic Encyclopedia and Oxford dictionaries as "unreliable and fringe sources" extremely weird. Plus, my edits are semi-literal quotations from the sources and to say that the "sources make no explicit definition of what you are trying to cite" makes me seriously wonder if you really read my edits or if you are just talking without knowing what you are talking about like Dbachmann, no offense.

Here is my deleted entry with the references for people to judge:

Historically, the Assyrian/Chaldean/Syriac communities, who all speak dialects of Neo-Aramaic, were known as Syrians or Syrian Christians, a literal equivalent of Sūrāyē/Sūryāyē. Using Syriac instead of Syrian became common after the establishment of the Syrian Arab Republic in 1936.[mentioned in Names of Syriac Christians]

The appellation Chaldean, which in Syriac generally meant magician or astrologer, denoted in Latin and other European languages Syrian nationality and the Syriac or Aramaic language (especially that form of the latter which is found in certain chapters of Daniel), until the Latin missionaries at Mosul in the seventeenth century adopted it to distinguish the Catholics of the East Syrian Rite from those of the West Syrian Rite, whom they call "Syrians", and from the Nestorians, who called themselves Syrians and called their church the Church of the East.[40]

The term Assyrian was used first in the 19th century[41][42][43][44][45] for the Church of the East. It became popular especially in Anglican circles as a way of avoiding the name Nestorian, which was disliked by the Syrians themselves and appeared to prejudge their orthodoxy.[46]. The emergence of the new name concurred with the discovery of ancient Babylonia and Assyria and the decipherment of cuneiform that took place during 19th century, and the rise of nationalism under the Ottoman Empire that occurred in the same period.

Self-identified Chaldeans and Aramaeans are frequently called "Assyrians" by Assyrian nationalists. This is deeply resented by many or even most in those communities, who do not want to be identified, wholly or even partially, with the ancient Assyrians, or with modern Assyrian nationalism. This has led to intense dispute, for instance, over census categories in the United States and about statements in the press referring to the ethnic communities in Iraq. Thus, press reports sometimes even say that the Christian community in Iraq speaks "Assyrian," a language that disappeared in ancient times (though many Assyrians do believe they are speaking ancient Assyrian). Some Assyrians even reject their ancient Christianity and wish to revive the worship of Assyrian gods, like Ashur. This would not be tolerated most predominantly Islamic countries.Ethnic Nationalist Mythologies, Note on the Modern Assyrians

HD86 (talk) 15:11, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

That doesn't belong here in ANI. The discussion on the relevance of that information belongs on the article TALK page, and should be discussed there in order to gain WP:CONSENSUS on its inclusion. Whether the source is reliable or not can be brought to the Reliablce Sources Noticeboard. BMW 15:49, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
    • HD86 is currently blocked 31 hours for disruption and personal attacks. The chaos on this set of articles has been going on for almost a year now, with Dieter thanklessly stuck in the middle of the two warring factions. It's really all worthy of a place on WP:LAME, but now it's past a joke. Non-constructive contribution is not going to be tolerated for too much longer: AramaeanSyriac (talk · contribs) is another one who needs to up his game before he winds up out of play. Moreschi (talk) 15:51, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Interesting choice of words. seicer | talk | contribs 16:08, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Blocked? Er, ouch. BMW 16:35, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Lol @ "talkpage oddness" in the block's an interesting way of putting it. But indeed, I agree: the user appears to be a disruptive editor. Ncmvocalist (talk) 17:16, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

That doesn't belong here in ANI. I do not claim the status of "uninvolved admin" in this, so I fail to see what this is about, or why this section has my username in the heading. This is just the usual round of wikilawyering I am used to getting as the last-resort effort of a pov-pusher just before they give up (or are made to give up) and encyclopedicity is restored. Trust me, I know the life cycle of these things by now. I predict we'll pass peak hysteria in the coming week or two, and in two months or so, we'll have a reasonably stable article. --dab (𒁳) 17:55, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Death threat[edit]

Hello. What should we do regarding this death threat? Take it serious? Delete this version? Regards, —αἰτίας discussion 15:58, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

WP:RBI I'd think. Just looks like some rather stupid vandalism to be blunt. Wildthing61476 (talk) 16:03, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Okay. I was thinking the same, however I wanted a second opinion to be on the safe side. Thanks. —αἰτίας discussion 16:05, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
I also think it looks like nothing more than very clueless vandalism. Gwen Gale (talk) 16:06, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

IP trouble at Dodo[edit]

All obviously the same IP, all vandalism only accounts. I request that all of these, and maybe a range block, be bestowed. However, I don't deem this...proper for a WP:AIV. Cheers. Sincerely, Imperat§ r(Talk) 16:09, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

BTW, WP:PROT#Semi would be good, too. :) Cheers. Sincerely, Imperat§ r(Talk) 16:10, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
I semi-protected the page for 2 days. I don't think a range block is necessary, is it? —αἰτίας discussion 16:18, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Page in violation of GDFL[edit]

Resolved: Gwen Gale has restored the older history Karanacs (talk) 16:29, 8 December 2008 (UTC).

National Autism Association was evidently deleted, then recreated by someone using copy-paste.[47] That destroys the credit we are required to provide under the GDFL, and the page must be either redeleted, or the reason for the initial deletion should be declared invalid, using deletion review or here. (I obviously cannot see the deletion reason, so cannot tell if it was valid.) Shoemaker's Holiday (talk) 16:15, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I'm not seeing an issue here. It looks like a prod tag has been added to the article several times and removed, but the article does not appera to have actually been deleted at any point. The history appears intact, unless I am missing something obvious. Karanacs (talk) 16:27, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

(ec) I restored the older history a minute ago. Gwen Gale (talk) 16:28, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Hence why I saw no problem. Thanks, Gwen! Karanacs (talk) 16:29, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Disruption from User:Bayrak along ethnic lines[edit]

Most of this user's edits so far appear to have a pro-Arab, anti-Iranian slant that does not work entirely within the framework of Wikipedia policies and guidelines. Here are some examples I can pull up:

Trying to edit articles along original (and frankly, incorrect) viewpoints [48] (that if a man is a Seyed then he must be an Arab): see Talk:Ruhollah Khomeini#Isn't he Arab!! In that section he was warned [49], yet he decided to try it again on December 5th Talk:Ruhollah Khomeini#the fake sayed...

Patently absurd attempt to deny that Azeris can have Iranian nationality: azeris are not iranian/persian. That he chose to attempt this on the article about the Supreme Leader of Iran (who is a prominent example of an Azeri with Iranian nationality) suggests that Bayrak is just trying to cause trouble.

Sometimes he removes tags without adding a source [50][51][52] Other times he will tag and/or remove material without any attempt to look up the issue, usually in order to remove claims about people being Persian faaaaaaaaaaaakeeeeeeeee that is not translete & all his works in arabic he is not persian. He might add "arabic" without providing a source they were arabs. It is curious how his double standard organizes itself along ethnic lines...

He might even repeatedly remove sourced material without sound explanation if the material asserts that something is Iranian:[53][54][55][56]

AGF violation with regard to original images: fake......... He remove the image (of Iranian girls in Kuwait) because he happens to doubt its veracity but makes no attempt to contact author or otherwise give the benefit of the doubt. It seems bad practice, and that it is also applied against an Iranian presence (since he denies that there are many Iranians in Kuwait) fits into a troubling pattern of ethnic warring.

This list is hardly exhaustive. The apparent ethnic motivation for much of this disruption is quite a manner of concern. It seems unfair on constructive editors that this behavior can continue unchecked from a user who has shown little desire to become a constructive editor. (talk) 21:02, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

I don't really have much to add to this, he said everything perfectly. Let me just clarify one thing. He does go on the talk pages. He is never persuaded from the view he took before going to the page. He ignores arguments and points we make sometimes, doesn't even acknowledge that we made them. And last but not least, he persistently pushes his views if we disagree. The entire thing is frustrating. --Enzuru 21:13, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
And even so, he only goes to the talk page in some of the cases. At Ossetians, for example, where he repeatedly removed the multiply-sourced (and fairly uncontroversial) fact that they are an Iranian people, he never took the issue to the talk page, even after being asked: questionanswer. But as you have pointed out, his participation at the talk page yields no fruit anyway. (talk) 21:23, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
Aside from the diffs of tag removal, which I agree are a concern, some of the other complaints here are pretty vague, without clear evidence, or citing very old evidence (those diffs about removing sources are from months ago). For example, can anyone provide a diff that shows a recent case where there was a clear talkpage consensus, and Bayrak editing against that consensus? If not, this really isn't a matter for ANI. I'd recommend some other step in dispute resolution, such as starting a thread at the Ethnic/Cultural conflicts noticeboard. I'll also have a word with Bayrak about the tags. --Elonka 21:52, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
This is rather recent. --Enzuru 22:52, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
The Khomeini situation is also recent, particularly his decision to continue the same ridiculous thread even though he was warned against it. The Khamenei edit was also within the last few days. The disruptive behavior is evident in both older and recent edits; you might say that it is characteristic of his Wikipedia career, unfortunately. It hardly seems reasonable to go to whatever instruction creep noticeboard over a lone wolf. He obviously he knows the rules, since he cited them when removing information he didn't like. That he then violates them for his own ends betrays an underlying lack of respect for Wikipedia rules, not a lack of understanding; having witnessed his repugnant double standard it is difficult to accept claims of innocence or misunderstanding. I emphasize that we should not be misled by these tactics, as it only prolongs the disruption and the frustration of genuinely well-meaning users. We have tried discussion, explanation, and warning to no avail. (talk) 05:28, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

in arabic wikipedia we do not Accept the complaint from I.P i dont know here if they do because behaind the I.P always plots --Bayrak (talk) 21:45, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

This isn't Arabic Wikipedia. WP:AGF --Smashvilletalk 22:35, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
It is amusing when a user provides an example of his own inappropriate behavior by his response to a thread about his inappropriate behavior. Bayrak, you might consider actually presenting a defense to the charges against you, instead of attacking me (or any other user) without sound reasoning. (talk) 05:28, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
I've got the relevant articles (Khwārizmī, Ruhollah Khomeini) added to my watchlist, have added a couple comments to the talkpages, and will keep an eye on the edits of Bayrak (talk · contribs), (talk · contribs), and Enzuru (talk · contribs). If other admins agree, this thread can probably be marked as resolved, perhaps "Situation is now subject to admin monitoring, no other action required at this time." --Elonka 06:08, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
You are the only admin who has opined on this matter so far, and your response (asking for "recent diffs" even though they were already presented) suggests that you do not fully understand the case at this time. It is important that we do more than we have already done for he has not responded appropriately to our reactions so far. We could use a few more administrative opinions on how we should respond differently to this case depending on what direction it takes from now on. (talk) 06:23, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
What exactly is it that you would like administrators to do? --Elonka 18:37, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
You need to be harsher with him than you have. Your message on his talk page treats him as if he just doesn't know any better, which is hardly the case. Do not give him the benefit of the doubt. It is wrong to assume good faith at this point, since he has shown understanding of the rules only when they were convenient to him; this precludes a genuine misunderstanding of the rules and reveals that he does not care for the rules but rather is advancing an agenda along ethnic lines, using the rules when they help and disregarding them when they do not. Any words he may now try to hide behind (blaming poor English skills or newness) should be taken with a grain of salt because the evident double standard speaks against his claimed innocence and ignorance. What you need to communicate is that the ill nature of his editing so far is now clear to all, and thus any further transgressions will be met with a block since he knows better. I've already warned him to this end but he, of course, did not care, and even boldly continued the very disruptive thread that I had warned him against. As an administrator, you may be able to scare him into compliance, but it must first be clear that you are not misled by his attempts to dodge around the true nature of his misbehavior. (talk) 20:19, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. It seems as though those who are resisting the rather absurd edits of editor "Bayrak" have received far more of a "tongue lashing" of sorts, than the actual culprit at hand. Bayrak very well understands the rules and purpose of Wikipedia, and only claims ignorance when the situation suits him. The bottom line is that Bayrak has an agenda that is clearly anti-Persian/anti-Iranian in nature, and is attempting to use the English language Wikipedia to advance that said agenda. He will no doubt continue this behavior until some action is taken. The Scythian 21:17, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
It is frustrating to see nothing is done, and I'm sure he's quite emboldened that an administrator is asking us for a consensus on an article that has historically had a strong consensus against what he wishes. --Enzuru 02:15, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Hmm, amusing. Particularly since the Azeris are partially Iranian, at the least. I'll keep an eye on this fellow. If he doesn't make any productive contributions he'll be banned before too long. Moreschi (talk) 23:06, 6 December 2008 (UTC)
OK, enough is enough, he has decided to push the disruptive Khomeini thread further [57]. Just block him at this point; there is no point tolerating further trolling and stupid games from him. (talk) 09:01, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Hey -- I don't edit much in such articles, but saw this thread here and since i have an interest in these matters have kept an eye on it. I was leaning towards your views on bayrak, based on what i was reading here. But that dif you point too from a talk page doesn't seem particularly bad. I don't know about Khomenei, but many millions of Iranians (including khamenei, right?) claim decent from the prophet's tribe. Claiming such descent doesn't make them less Iranian; there's been lots of intermarriage and big families in the past 1,400 years. I'm not weighing in on whether that guy's talk page assertion about Khomeini and the Quraysh is true (that content issue should be dealt with over there -- should be easy to answer given the shared Iranian and Arab interest in geneology). Just pointing out that comment doesn't come close to out of bounds.Bali ultimate (talk) 15:50, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Ok, read the whole talkpage. Bayrak is clearly pursuing an agenda (basically his argument is that Khomenei had an arab ancestor in the distant past and that this makes him "Arab" rather than "Iranian"). Various attempts have been made to point out why this is wrong. He's bullheaded. So, i can see why one would feel he's disruptive and pushing an agenda. Why not just ignore him as long as he's confined to the talk page? If he starts pushing this content into the article against conensus, then come back?Bali ultimate (talk) 16:13, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
Bali is correct. Bayrak's comments may or may not be tendentious, but I'm reluctant to block someone simply for speaking their mind on a talkpage. If he were pushing inappropriate edits into the article against talkpage consensus, that would be something different, but if he's just trying to present his point of view on a talkpage, that's what we want people to do in a dispute. If no one agrees with him, well, ignore him. --Elonka 19:59, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
The disruption is not confined to the talk pages. Please actually read the diffs presented as evidence; must of this starts in the article. A quick survey of his contributions will also demonstrate this point further. It usually begins with some absurd anti-Iranian/pro-Arab change to the article (at Khomeini, at Khamenei, at Ossetians, at articles about some medieval scholars, and so on). Eventually he may go to the talk page, but as we have seen his participation is not constructive and is often akin to trolling, and is persistent. With disruptive article edits and disruptive talk page edits, with knowledge of the rules (which are respected only when convenient to him), I am completely boggled by the drive to protect him and extend the benefit of the doubt to him in this thread. Even if there hadn't been disruption on the articles, since when is talk page trolling even after warnings an acceptable Wikipedia career? If he had stopped after warning, then maybe we could say we misunderstood him. If he stopped after this thread, then maybe we could still say we misunderstood him. But he has continued some of the very same threads that he was warned against; that this provocation has been tolerated by administrators is quite unfortunate. (talk) 21:47, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
I am not seeing trolling here, I am seeing someone with a limited grasp of English. I imagine that if I tried to participate on the Arabic Wikipedia, my own posts would be fairly unintelligible, and if someone gave me a long thoughtful reply back, I would just see it as an indecipherable wall of text, and I would probably miss all the philosophical subtleties of what they were trying to say. So I would reply based on what I did understand, and then if they got angry that I wasn't responding to the rest of their post, and responded to me with more stuff I didn't understand, the situation would spiral. My recommendation is to try a bit more patience. Speak to this editor in short and simple sentences. Use small words. When he ignores you, don't assume that he's deliberately ignoring. Instead, assume that he couldn't understand what you just said because you may have used words that were not in his vocabulary. Now, I do agree with Moreschi below that there's a limit to how much patience we need to show to someone who doesn't have enough English to effectively participate in this project, but let's not make things worse by using the "troll" word. --Elonka 23:03, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
I actually can see this guy is moving in the direction of a block (i appear to disagree with Elonka on this -- his grasp of english appears strong enough to understand the substance of the issues). However, Elonka, an admin, appears to have promised in good faith to keep an eye on this guy. I'm sure she will and you should continue to do so, and if more of the same behavior emerges in article mainspace, other steps might be taken. You may be back here soon. When you come back, frame it like this UserX did y, was warned, did y again. Was warned about similair problems in the past. Provide diffs for it all. He might end up getting blocked. But continuing to insist he get blocked now is not going to help your later case, is not going to get what you want now, and just might lead to your position being taken less seriously (in a volunteer project, sometimes squeeky wheels get less grease, however unfair that might seem).Bali ultimate (talk) 23:24, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
I'll be sure to bring it to attention if the behavior continues. Hopefully then the correct decision will be taken, instead of the coddling and delay seen so far. (talk) 23:48, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
The user "Bayrak" says above "in arabic wikipedia we do not Accept the complaint from I.P i dont know here if they do because behaind the I.P always plots". This is the best proof of why the complain is relevant. I think everbody agrees that from the language X to the language Y arguments should not loose their validity. If in arabic wikipedia things are so as he says, then we should think about a review on wholeخنیاگر (talk) 21:23, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
  • DFTT, people. He can rant on talkpages, just ignore him. If it's offtopic remove it per WP:TALK. Otherwise just don't feed. Obviously if he starts putting this stuff into articles in the future it's a much more serious matter and we will deal with that proactively.
  • Although frankly this guy's English is so poor I question the point of him editing here. Wikipedia is not language school. That needs to improve as well. People with broken English need to prove they are worth taking time over. If they don't contribute worthwhile content...
  • A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away I spent many long days copy-editing the works of a Russian editor whose articles contained many instances of...idiosyncratic...grammar. But, as the result was outstanding Russian opera articles, everyone was really happy. It's not that hard to show us you're worth the trouble. Moreschi (talk) 20:49, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

Urgent - Page move vandalism needs cleaning[edit]

Resolved: All cleaned up --Chris 12:09, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Special:Contributions/Rainroller - D.M.N. (talk) 11:30, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Special:Contributions/Father_Grigori - D.M.N. (talk) 11:31, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
How can we fix this kind of stuff? (See User talk:Gwen Gale too)Verbal chat 11:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
I know: bann the bastards! Jouke Bersma Contributions 11:36, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Also User:Doctor Rosenberg Verbal chat 11:36, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
What did he do? Jouke Bersma Contributions 11:37, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Special:Contributions/Colette_Green - D.M.N. (talk) 11:51, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Why do you keep posting here? It's coming up on everyone's watchlist. We can all see it, and it will be dealt with. Posting every hagger vandal here serves no purpose. Vandals go to WP:AIV in any case. – Amicon (talk) 11:53, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
AIV does not deal with vandals who have not had a full series of warnings - and in page move vandalism of this sort it is essential to alert admins as quickly as possible. DuncanHill (talk) 12:11, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm sure the admins there would block any page move vandal, regardless of how many warnings. I think it's quicker to deal with it there. – amicon 12:13, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Do you want to rewrite the intro on AIV which says that vandals must have had sufficient warnings? DuncanHill (talk) 12:15, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
We will act on one or no warnings to protect Wikipedia. But if we say that, many of our younger brethren will report all vandals after one or no warnings. This already happens to an extent, but the notice gives us something to remind people with. What's required in this case is a bit of commonsense. ➨ ЯEDVERS a sweet and tender hooligan 12:18, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Indeed. As far as I understand it, our admins have a dose of common sense. They just aren't going to reject a request to block a page move vandal because it didn't have enough arbitrary warnings. Are you suggesting any admin that does not allow for sufficient warnings is violating WP:BLOCK? The text at the top is just a guide, remember. – amicon 12:28, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
I'm not suggesting that admins would be breaking BLOCK - rather that it is wrong to criticize editors who actually believe the instructions on AIV. DuncanHill (talk) 12:40, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
  • It could be edited to say "unless it's high-speed page move vandalism, but if the person reporting it is clear about it, I don't know any admin who wouldn't act on the report. - Mgm|(talk) 12:25, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
    • Any admin that declined to block a page move vandal "because it didn't have enough warnings" would be unfit to be an admin, in my opinion. – amicon 12:28, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
That is a horrible thing you say there - everyone should be given warnings first, then 24 our block, then 41 hour block, then 48-hours (2 days), then weeks or months and only bann someone permanently as a last resort. Jouke Bersma Contributions 12:34, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Not this person--or, rather, group of people. They have a long, long history of this exact sort of vandalism, and are blocked on sight. // roux   12:38, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

WP:AIV is a good place to start with it. They typically apply a degree of flexibility based on experience and the given situation. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 12:33, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

  • (multiple edit conflicts):So editors who follow the instructions, see that a vandal hasn't had enough warnings for AIV and think "well, this certainly needs dealing with quickly, I know, I'll go to ANI" are fair game for criticism? An editor trying to get vandalism dealt with quickly, and believing what he is told at AIV, surely deserves better treatment. DuncanHill (talk) 12:35, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
    • The wording should probably be clearer. But those who work with AIV frequently typically know the score. I've had named accounts blocked for obvious vandalism when they've had no warnings. Typically they're more likely to enforce the multiple-warning and recent-activity rules when it's an IP address. But that's why they have the template to show the activity, so the admin can make a judgment. AIV is still the fastest place to get action of some kind. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 12:45, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
      • Which does not justify criticizing editors who take the instructions there at face value, and come and report here. DuncanHill (talk) 13:01, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
        • I don't see anyone being criticized, rather they have been pointed to a more appropriate forum. No offense was intended at any point, nor was it my intention to make anyone look "stupid". – amicon 13:06, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
          • "Why do you keep posting here?" is not a constructive or helpful way to suggest to someone that they may get a quicker response elsewhere. DuncanHill (talk) 13:09, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
            • I was merely wondering, as said user is, in my opinion, quite an experienced one. It surprised me they were posting here. It's that simple. Incorrectly stating AIV doesn't deal with all kinds of vandals is, in my opinion, not constructive or helpful, because they do indeed block vandals from that page, regardless of the warning system, when there is need (as there is for page move vandals). – amicon 13:13, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
              • Your experience at AIV != my experience at AIV. If the instructions at AIV are incorrect (which appears to be the consensus here) then they should be changed. DuncanHill (talk) 13:17, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
                • Indeed, I've updated them. – amicon 13:18, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
                  • Thanks - looks a lot better. DuncanHill (talk) 13:37, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

My resoning for coming here. AIV is only used to alert Adminstrators of a vandal. Once they are immediately blocked, the bot then removes them off the AIV page as in the bots view it's "finished". Yet with the page move vandalism - despite the fact the user is no longer on AIV the page move vandalism is still in place and thus administrators needed to be alerted quickly to fix it as it was done to a huge number of pages. I was only posting here to get people's attention to revert the vandalism - not to stir up trouble as such. AIV only serves to block vandals, not to revert the page move vandalism they have done. D.M.N. (talk) 16:09, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

  • I agree completely. This is a perfect candidate to bring to AN/I. Not all of these pages are on someone's watch list and this is something that should be cleaned up quickly. Protonk (talk) 19:23, 8 December 2008 (UTC)


Punkox (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) is fresh off a block. This block resulted from edit-warring invalid chart data into a group of six articles:

Irresistible (song) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
A Public Affair (song) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
These Boots Are Made for Walkin' (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
I Think I'm in Love with You (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
I Belong to Me (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)
I Wanna Love You Forever (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

If you scan the edit histories, you will see that he jumps back and forth from being logged in to anonymous editing under 190.43.*.*.

So, last night, the block expires. He starts the evening by uploading a fanart cover and falsely claiming its the Japanese cover. I start the deletion process, and tag the image for deletion. While I'm there, I notice the charts look suspicious, dig around, and discover that only one is any good, so I fix it and add sources.

Now the fun starts: he removes the image tag multiple times. He restores the funky charts multiple times, working his way up to final vandalism warnings.

I finally go to sleep, and while I'm asleep, he restores the unsourced charts, and, as icing on the cake, comes back as the anon to erase the image deletion tag again.

Kww(talk) 13:35, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Doesn't change anything about his behaviour, but AngelOfSadness has found evidence that the initial image may be authentic, just very poorly sourced and difficult to verify.—Kww(talk) 14:08, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Looks to me like Japanese promotional packaging done up by the record company only for radio stations, reviewers, wholesale buyers and the like. Gwen Gale (talk) 17:12, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
I agree that is what the page that AngelOfSadness found seems to indicate. Doesn't justify repetitively removing the image deletion tag, though.—Kww(talk) 17:15, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
The behaviour is indeed something else. Gwen Gale (talk) 17:19, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Is there something uncompelling about this report? I'm having a hard time understanding the inaction on it. Normally, fresh off a block for edit-warring in bad chart information while jumping back and forth between a named account and anonymous editing followed by returning to the behaviour of edit-warring in bad chart information while jumping back and forth between a named account and anonymous editing, combined with doing so on a deletion notice, combined with doing so after a final vandalism warning would result in an instant block. In most cases, the only argument would be whether indef was appropriate or not. In this case, the report has sat so long that he has returned to the edit war while the report was filed, and there has been little action taken. MBisanz has semi-protected the problem page, but Punkox remains unblocked.—Kww(talk) 18:14, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

I blocked the account for a bit with a message in the block message pointing to this discussion. If edits continue with IPs, they can be blocked as block evading socks. --NrDg 18:43, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

harrassment by new user:Off2riorob[edit]

A new user has persisted in WP:PA despite warnings. Please caution this user regarding his conduct. yesterday (originally posted by the user on the admin notice board reading aggressive editor despite zero supporting evidence, in fact the contrary is the case: [58][59][60][61]). Also, made accusations in discussion with another editor here. Continuing with this line of attack today Semitransgenic (talk) 20:55, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

For what it's worth, I don't see any blatant violations of NPA. Cheers, –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 21:12, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Continued WP:AGF infringements despite cautions and you don't have an issue??
  • Accusations about personal behavior that lack evidence. Serious accusations require serious evidence. Evidence often takes the form of diffs and links presented on wiki. Sometimes evidence is kept private and made available to trusted users.
posting on admin board while ignoring: Please do not post slurs of any kind on this page, and note that any messages that egregiously violate Wikipedia's civility or personal attacks policies will be removed. Semitransgenic (talk) 21:26, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Not assuming good faith and violating NPA are different things. –Juliancolton Tropical Cyclone 21:31, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
Ok my mistake, haven't had this issue before, not a big deal, just think it would be good if someone other than me tried to set him straight regarding user conduct. If he has an issue he needs to address my edits not me personally. Semitransgenic (talk) 21:42, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

User is continuing the attack here Semitransgenic (talk) 21:54, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

  • I don't know if I'd call it harassment or just trolling. Either way it's not productive behavior. ·:· Will Beback ·:· 22:29, 8 December 2008 (UTC)
OK thanks for your comments, he can take the case to the appropriate place if he believes there is one. Semitransgenic (talk) 22:33, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Concerning user talk comment[edit]

Resolved: User indef-blocked by Aitias.--Aervanath lives in the Orphanage 07:36, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Adzlcfc (talk ·