Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive573

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Possible legal threat by User:EastSideMiner

EastSideMiner (talk · contribs) may have made a possible legal threat at here (I am assuming while he was logged off). I have placed a warning template on his talk page, but I thought I would raise it here in case any administrators want to take further action. Singularity42 (talk) 17:04, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

The IP should probably be blocked and a CU run to make 100% sure that EastSideMiner was in fact logged out when making the threat.--Giants27(Contribs|WP:CFL) 17:07, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Note: user was notified here, but was subsequently removed by the user. Singularity42 (talk) 17:12, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Legal threats (or any kinda threat) on Wikipedia, is unacceptable. Recommend imediate 'block'. GoodDay (talk) 17:17, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

There is some obvious sockpuppet/meatpuppet going on with this user and Minerfan (talk · contribs) and UKguy1983 (talk · contribs) from last year. All of the accounts have been trying to get this non-notable individual into Wikipedia. I think a reset of the article SALT is reasonable. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 17:30, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

They should be blocked for 'atleast' being annoying. GoodDay (talk) 17:37, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
^ wth? GrooveDog • i'm groovy. 17:42, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

I've indefinitely blocked EastSideMiner for the legal threat. I'll look more into it to see if there is socking going on. MuZemike 18:08, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Non free image partial deletion

An old version of File:Chrome Wikipedia.PNG has a non free image in it. Is is possible to delete the old revision while leaving the new, more appropriate one?--Michaelkourlas (talk) 19:42, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Old version deleted, note added to credit original creator. Huntster (t @ c) 21:31, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks!--Michaelkourlas (talk) 21:51, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Edit-warring noticeboard

Administrator attention seems to be required on the 3rr noticeboard. Some reports are days old and some have been archived without being resolved. The Four Deuces (talk) 21:37, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

User talk:Jéské Couriano vandalism again

Resolved: Page semi protected by Wknight94 (talk · contribs). ≈ Chamal talk ¤ 02:25, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure if this is the right place to post this, but User talk:Jéské Couriano seems to be undergoing the beginning of another co-ordinated assault. I would appreciate any help in ridding the attacks and name revelations from the anonymous IPs if it continues. MelicansMatkin (talk, contributions) 02:13, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

This is a good place, esp. for higher priority stuff. Talk page protected. Thanks. Wknight94 talk 02:19, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks very much for acting so quickly on the matter. Cheers, MelicansMatkin (talk, contributions) 02:22, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Ditto; I've unprotected now since it seems to have died down. My guess is this is related to the attacks on Fran Rogers on here earlier this week, given the nature of what was being posted (according to Melicans), and that there'll be more stuff like this until the RL proceedings end and Jarl's access is revoked. -Jeremy (v^_^v Stop... at a WHAMMY!!) 03:47, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Jeff V. Merkey ip again

Resolved: IP blocked for a month.
Current ip
Most recent accounts (both indefinitely blocked)
Recent discussions

I see why now why the Jvmphoto account was so quickly blocked indefinitely. Looks like we need the same for this ip. He's continuing to edit his article against WP:COI, using Wikipedia as his personal battleground [1] [2], and harass others [3]. --Ronz (talk) 02:38, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

There are also the outright threats, of course. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 02:44, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
You know guys, its pretty childish to keep fighting over something you do in every other article on military subjects. And you fail to recognize or acknowledge when I retract something. I can index and link spam google too, just like Wikipedia and push this wikipedia article to page 5000 if I like by hiring and SEO company and paying them $3000.00 and post my own article instead on google. so how about for once follow your own rules. There's no ARBCOM Proceedings in force anymore and the reasons for blocking are erroneous by WERDNA/Fagerburg and I can post docs about that to on that website. There was no harassment of Fagerburg, it was in fact the other way around. So I tire of the constant banter and fighting. It's just a waste of time. Ignore this POV pushing editor user Ronz and stop the dog pack ganging up on each other and the subject of a bio. OK? LOL. (talk) 02:52, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I am not involved too much in the editing of this article but I have been watching it. I don't really see what the problem is. Merkey has posted a bunch of stuff on his personal website that more than verifies most of his claims. I am not taking sides. I just see potential for a pretty good article if everyone would stop reverting, arguing and picking at each other. - 4twenty42o (talk) 03:05, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Thank you 4twenty42o. (talk) 03:06, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
OK, I am going to take a break for the rest of the weekend and spend some time in Park City with my girlfriend. She owns Robert Redfords Film production company and lives in a 35 bedroom house on the side of the mountain and is beautiful as hell. I'll be in the sack with her all weekend and riding around town in her ferrari. I'll see you guys on Monday and hope I don't have to hire an SEO company to bury that article someone in the bowels of Google. Just conform it to every other article on Wikipedia that quotes military awards. Good night guys. (talk) 03:09, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Oh yeah. This guy is certainly credible. It's like the 'I'm Rich!' version of Madlibs... HalfShadow (talk) 03:13, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

To 4twenty42o, the actual content of his edits aren't of much relevance at this point, and that's the sad part. Merkey probably has the capacity to be a good contributor, but his tendency to make threats to others has gotten in the way. What's really relevant at this point is his inability to make a mature request for unblock, or any kind of apology or acknowledgement for his general incivility and other problematic behaviors (in addition to the fact that this potentially falls into ArbCom jurisdiction, given that they handed out the original ban). This kind of block evasion is only going to dealt with by continued blocks. Someguy1221 (talk) 03:20, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't fall under ArbComm jurisdiction because he's under a community ban for harassment of Pfagerburg by calling that user's employer to attempt to get him fired. See this AN/I thread from '08. -Jeremy (v^_^v Stop... at a WHAMMY!!) 04:05, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I just removed the post, given that it really didn't do anything but hurl accusations at longtime editors. If you'd rather the post stay up, you may revert my edit, given that you commented in the thread. Someguy1221 (talk) 03:32, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
  • I understand the reason for the block and I agree that punishment is merited. Its just that I have seen the same information added, removed, reverted and re-added. Can't we reach a consensus on one thing, move on to another and so on? Like I said earlier I am NOT taking sides but I see quite a few reverts that I disagree with from pretty much all of the parties involved. Just seems rather petty I guess.. - 4twenty42o (talk) 03:37, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
    Were that to be the end of it then that would be okay, but that's very unlikely given the overall history. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 03:56, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

User:Italian With A Two-Way Radio

Resolved: Blocked. — Jake Wartenberg 07:30, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

This user worries me, their fourth contribution is posting to Baseballbugs' talk page. Please discuss.— dαlus Contribs 06:59, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

He's done this before. Blocked. Someguy1221 (talk) 07:07, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
SPI filed, if anyone has anymore information, it would be welcome.— dαlus Contribs 07:17, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Also sock of User:Bad Snakes Ta Ta, per checkuser. Blocked now ^_^ - Alison 07:20, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for fixing. The I-troll-ian had said something about batteries. I don't know from batteries, except pitcher-and-catcher. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 08:40, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Another, User:Itallian With A 2 Way Radio. Please block.— dαlus Contribs 20:54, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Already blocked, no other socks I can see - Alison 06:23, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Neutralhomer's reverts using Twinkle

Yes check.svg Resolved. Not to be a jackass or anything... Master of Puppets 04:50, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

It appears that Neutralhomer (talk · contribs) is misusing Twinkle to revert someone he is in a dispute with. See [4] and [5]. A relevant discussion thread is here. This appears to be a content dispute and not a vandalism situation. He appears to have done this earlier month too when he was reverting Betacommand with edits like [6] and [7].

Neutralhomer has had his Twinkle rights taken away several times now. In looking in his monobook, it was first taken away on Dec 22, 2007, then a few days later on Dec 30, 2007. It was removed again on November 2, 2008. His rollback rights were taken away in April of this year and have not been restored. Since it appears that he is, again, misusing the tool, can an admin investigate this further and make a determination about whether or not it should be taken away? Thank you, either way (talk) 01:28, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I have notified Neutralhomer of your report. Please note this is a REQUIREMENT. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:37, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I am aware of that and have left him a link to this report. either way (talk) 01:41, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Having done that, all these diffs do look like content disputes, and none of them looks like vandalism. Reverting is OK, but Twinkle offers the opportunity to revert with an edit summary, and this option should be used in all cases that are not clear cut vandalism. Neutralhomer, I think you risk getting Twinkle took off you if you do this again. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:37, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

"...If you do this again"...I think given the amount of times he's had such tools, he should be well aware of appropriate uses of the tools, and should have it taken away now rather than "next time". either way (talk) 01:41, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Either way, the information that was removed is clear vandalism. The information violates no rule on Wikipedia and no consensus has been established to remove this information. As I told User:Piano non troppo, he needs to go to WP:TVS and establish consensus first then if that consensus is established, then only then remove the information from all pages, not just two. The links to Betacommand were working links, so I seen no problem reverting them (I did check) and you can view WINC-FM, WUSQ-FM, and WFQX (FM) for the same live stream links. There was no need to have them removed unless the company asked for it. If the company asked (which they have been known to do with other sites, I will be glad to revert myself.
I would like to ask why you (Either way) are involved in this. Since we have history it would be better to let an uninvolved admin work this ANI post and not you. This is, again, another prime example of the stalking of myself by Either way. - NeutralHomerTalk • 01:43, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
It's a pure content dispute. The automated tool should not be used in these instances, nor should they be labeled as vandalism. I am allowing an uninvolved admin to resolve this. That's why I brought this here rather than removing it myself. either way (talk) 01:46, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
With our history, you are not uninvolved. Doesn't matter, you want me to revert via the AGF link or the Rollback link or just standard ol' Undo, that is fine. - NeutralHomerTalk • 01:50, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
No, I want you to discuss, rather than reverting and accusing of vandalism. Did you ever tell Beta why you were calling his edits vandalism? And could you please drop the incivility as you've done here to Piano non troppo? As you can clearly see, he has not brought this dispute to ANI, so stop blindly accusing him of trying to get you blocked. either way (talk) 01:59, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
No, I couldn't. If you remember correctly, unless I have something constructive to say, I am not allowed to contact Beta per you. So no, I didn't tell him. But if he would have clicked the links for the webstreams, he would have seen they didn't violate any policy. - NeutralHomerTalk • 02:05, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Have to agree with either way here. Bold edits are not vandalism. The content removal was accompanied by an edit summary justifying it. Reverting was fine, but treating it as vandalism was not. Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:48, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
As I said, if you want me to use the ol' Undo button, I will. I make a decision if something is vandalism, to me, both felt like vandalism. I didn't mark Beta for vandalism, but Piano non troppo and I had this discussion previous on another page. - NeutralHomerTalk • 01:53, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Just use the 'rollback' rather than 'rollback vandal' option in Twinkle, and put something in the edit summary. Don't hand a hostage to fortune as they say. Elen of the Roads (talk) 02:00, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
That can be done. - NeutralHomerTalk • 02:05, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Great! So is this a compromise for all? Neutralhomer can keep Twinkle, and won't mark edits as vandalism when it's a dispute/WP:NOTVAND. Is everyone reasonably happy now? (yes, I'm butting in) tedder (talk) 02:08, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I am happy with it. See, I don't mind comprimising. I will use the vandalism button for only blindingly clear vandalism (like putting cuss words on a page or blanking) and leave the rollback button and AGF button for everything else. I can be comprimised with, ya know. Ya just gotta ask. - NeutralHomerTalk • 02:10, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
No, I don't believe this is a fair compromise. Neutralhomer has had the tools taken away 4 times already, so I don't see why we should allow him to continue using the tool if this is a continuous issue. He doesn't seem to understand that these edits he reverted are not vandalism, and that he will just continue to revert anyway. either way (talk) 02:11, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm sure you'll keep checking up on him. Elen of the Roads (talk) 02:14, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I so knew you (Either way) would say that. You can't be happy with something. You will not be happy until all my tools are taking away and I am blocked indef. We have found a comprimise, accept we can move on. - NeutralHomerTalk • 02:15, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

(unindenting, and EC, EC) Okay, so EW, you are concerned about edit warring. Can that be handled when it happens at WP:3RR? Edit warring will happen with or without Twinkle. Perhaps the compromise would be worth accepting, then take a step back from the issue and cool off. Nobody is stopping you from reporting Neutralhomer to 3RR if you have issues- but WP:HORSE seems a worthy suggestion at this point. tedder (talk) 02:17, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

It's not edit's that he's using the tool inappropriately for non-vandalism. Like I said, it's already been four times taken away from him because he has used them in disputes and for non-vandalism. He says now "Oh, I'll only use it for vandalism" but he's said that/agreed to that every other time it was taken away/restored. Why do we keep allowing use of it if these issues just keep coming up? either way (talk) 02:19, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
The words of a man who will stop at nothing to continue an arguement ad naseum, to get my tools taken away, and to get me blocked. This is a clear case of stalking. - NeutralHomerTalk • 02:21, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Per ALOT of thinking, I have decided to leave Wikipedia. I am sick and tired of the constant baby-fied actions of a handful of very insecure and inmature individuals who have nothing better to do than troll around Wikipedia and cause drama and problems for others. That isn't directed at one person, it is directed at several. Wikipedia has turned me into a person I don't like and I can't stand. The stress of working with some of you people gives me a constant migraine. You all can destroy all the pages on Wikipedia, delete everything, or whatever, I honestly don't care anymore. To show I am serious, I have requested all my userpages be deleted per {{db-author}}. I am done. I am tired of the threats, the bitching, the ANI posts, this, that and the other thing. It was old about 2 years ago and it is really old now. I have much better and more rewarding things to do with my time and my life than to sit and argue with children, or adults who act like children on a WEBSITE. Goodbye. - Neutralhomer (talk) 03:25, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
  • One final note, per this edit, I have erased my monobook. If you all so feel the need, you can go ahead and protect it. - Neutralhomer (talk) 03:27, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm sorry this had to happen, Neutralhomer. Feel free to come back at any time if you so choose, and hopefully this time away from Wiki lets you clear your head. Cheers, Master of Puppets 04:50, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I brought up a sockpuppetry investigation against because that user was engaging in behavior that I thought to be reminiscent of the previous Spotfixer sockpuppet TruthIIPower. Later developments in that investigation showed that Spotfixer had indeed edited with that IP. Therefore, that IP was blocked.

After an extremely angry email to me and some gradually calming-down discourse at User talk:, I believe that the IP should actually be unblocked. From what the IP tells me, it seems that

  • The IP belongs to a university residence
  • A journalism class at the university brings up the use of "mother" vs. "pregnant woman" on Wikipedia every year, hence the periodic debate over that issue (new classes of journalism students taking that class) which led to my suspicions of sockpuppetry [added 03:32, 25 October 2009 (UTC): the class is not contributing to Wiki; various members of the class are inspired by the class to edit Wiki on the issue brought up, but of their own accord]
  • Other students at that residence were editing articles on cooking right before the block, and would like to be able to continue to contribute.

and I find this reasonably well substantiated by the user contributions.

I'm afraid that I made a mess of things by actually finding a situation in which similar behavior + same IP ≠ sockpuppet. I now find myself reasonably convinced that they are not a sockpuppet and should be unblocked. Awickert (talk) 20:53, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Heh, I would agree with you that it is probably reasonable to unblock, but not that you made a mess of things. One of the advantages of creating an account is not being immediately associated with everyone else that ever was at that address. It was a risk that didn't pay off. That doesn't mean it was a bad risk, just that it didn't pay off.- Sinneed 21:08, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
If the IP is used by a banned user then a block is entirely appropriate. Anyone who shares that IP who is not the banned user can create an account elsewhere (like the uni library) and then edit without further restriction. Thatcher 21:18, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
The start of the tangent. To clarify: The class is not editing Wiki. Students from the class are inspired by the debate in class to edit Wiki. Sorry about my poor stating of the issue above.
If a journalism class has a yearly debate of "mother vs pregnant woman", why don't they just create a WP account for that purpose? A vandalising IP shouldn't be unblocked just because other people at that location don't vandalize. Heck, where I edit from is usually blocked, don't affect me any. Not sure I agree with a university class using Wiki as a debate project, but that's a different subject. IMHO, you were in the right with the block. Tainted Conformity (talk) 23:21, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
They couldn't just create an account - a wikipedia account can only be used by one person. Elen of the Roads (talk) 23:56, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
True enough, I guess. Personally think an exception could be made in that type of case though, considering that they're not on the site to improve it as much as use it for class. As long as they had their class's contact info (name of the university & class) on the userpage, I personally wouldn't see the problem. Tainted Conformity Chat 01:08, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
To clarify: this isn't the IP of a journalism class, it's the IP of a residence where people from the journalism class have lived. Hence the two cooking-related edits right before the block. Also, I think it has been people inspired by the class, but acting on their own initiative, who have editied Wiki. Awickert (talk) 01:38, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

(Full disclosure: I am involved in the "mother" v. "pregnant woman" argument on the opposing side the ip is on, he or she and I have been sparring) The ip has made many advanced edits inconsistent with a first go at wikipedia (signed edits on talk pages from the start, brought a case to Wikiquette alerts), appears to know the lingo very well and has a rudimentary enough grasp of policy to throw it around in arguments. This is also rather damning. It is conceivable that this is not a sock (or meatpuppet) of spotfixer but I would be very surprised. - Schrandit (talk) 14:20, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Yep, I do acknowledge that the IP was used by Spotfixer, which is why the block occurred in the first place. I am reasonably convinced however that while they edit with a similar intent, it is not the same person, and am concerned that we have blocked a whole ton of people who work behind the same IP address. But I understand Schrandit's points as they were my initial reaction to the situation as well. Awickert (talk) 19:58, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Continued misunderstanding of the issue - a class is not editing Wiki as an experiment.

If a journalism class (or anyone else) is conducting breaching experiments on wikipedia, they should be told in no uncertain terms to cut it out once and for all, and should be blocked on sight if they do it again, even if it's years later. (talk) 09:10, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for your input, but there is an issue that I would like resolved to which this conversation is orthagonal. I am collapsing all of this material. Awickert (talk) 03:30, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
This situation arises regularly with schools, university libraries etc. Creating an account is free, and there is no requirement to hand over any personal or identifying data, hence the advice is to create an account if the IP one wishes to edit from is blocked in this manner.Elen of the Roads (talk) 11:00, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Obama "death threat"

Thought I should report this. Cassandra 73 (talk) 09:14, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

These happen so often that maybe there should be some regular conduit between OTRS and the FBI if there isn't one already. Then such diffs should just be emailed to OTRS for referral. Once that is done, I'd say to administratively delete the diffs unless there's some policy against that. (talk) 09:24, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Yep, report it to the foundation or OTRS, then they'll contact the FBI. After that's done, delete the revision.--Giants27(Contribs|WP:CFL) 16:56, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
I e-mailed the foundation, they've stricken it from the logs and blocked the IP (no mention of the FBI in the response I got). Cassandra 73 (talk) 11:28, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

User Verbal at English Defence League

Resolved: No Administrator action required, disputed content issues, moved to the talkpage. — Off2riorob (talk) 20:49, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

I am concerned about recent actions at English Defence League. Specifically, User talk:Verbal is editing in a way that comes across bias and is not beneficial to the article as a whole. My recent concern is the removal of a POV-check tag. Concerns have primarily stemmed from Verbal's pushing of "far right" and "political" as unqualified labels but also includes minor details (improper use of words to avoid, weight, etc) that are pretty easy to fix. This has been going on since September and both editors and random IPs have expressed concerns. Verbal and User: Snowded would not allow for the POV template disputing neutrality at the top of the article while discussion was ongoing since they considered it closed. Another user and I continue to not be satisfied with what appears to be bias so I added the POV-check tag here (I actually second guessed myself and replaced a smarmy comment with it). I went into detail (for the third time) here I thought that worse comes to worse I would find out I was wrong. Verbal inappropriately removed this tag which was both a request for involvement as well as a notice that there is a potential neutrality concern here.

Another user brought disruptive editing on the page by Verbal here on October 21 which was considered resolved (it was too general maybe?) here. I am not familiar with the other discussion involving the user on this page. Notification of perceived disruptive behavior was done throughout the conversation at User talk:Verbal#EDL disruptive editing against clear consensus and the following subsections.

The user has engaged in what I feel is inappropriate minor edit warring (not exceeding 3rr) and questionable tactics on the talk page. This is only opinion, though. I do feel that removing a tag requesting a check for neutrality crosses the line. I also wanted to say that I feel weird going to bat for an organization that has some dirty roots but editing against bigotry is just as bad as editing for bigotry here.Cptnono (talk) 14:52, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

This is a repeat posting of a recent content dispute. My edits are supported by the consensus on the talk page, policy, and reliable sources. Cptnono has repeatedly tried to remove or weaken the description of EDL as "far right", despite many many reliable sources and several talk page discussions supporting this. I have yet to see a policy reason for removing the clearly correct term "political". Rather than coming to ANI, a better idea would be to bring actual policy reasons to the talk page or to go to WP:NPOVN. This appears to be a further misuse of ANI, as I have not broken any policies. Cptnono is strongly pushing for the article to follow the EDL line (as can be seen on the talk page), which would fall afoul of several policies - most notably WP:NPOV. I don't see any need for administrator intervention at this point, though as always I welcome more views and opinions. This area is hot with pro-BNP/EDL activists at the moment due to recent BBC coverage of the leader of the BNP, Nick Griffin, convicted for inciting racial hatred. Verbal chat 15:02, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
If the dispute discussion over the article's content is continuing (thus no agreement), perhaps the 'tag' should be restored. GoodDay (talk) 15:36, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
It seems the dispute is mostly resolved, apart from cptnono. Maybe he'll come on board too. I expect more debate on the talk page with a new proposal shortly. Verbal chat 15:40, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Good luck, ya'll. GoodDay (talk) 15:41, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
I have proposed a solution which Verbal has now got to. There are signs of a breakthrough on the content which may then move the tagging issue forward. Leaky Caldron 15:49, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
There are clearly npov concerns on that article and still are and perhaps the two parties will never agree, there is nothing wrong with such an article carrying a npov template till the end of time. Off2riorob (talk) 16:24, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
I feel that the POV concerns are throughout the article and not just the "far right" and "political" terms. I also never proposed removing far right but just clarifying who laid that charge since they dispute it. One of my concerns was actually one that showed bias towards the group. The overall tone and instances of POV is why I thought a check tag was needed. The continuous locking down of the page by the editor, disputing that there is a dispute, and removing a request for input are just too much.Cptnono (talk) 17:03, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

{Undent}Verbal has been editing entirely appropriately at this page. There are some pov pushers who would like to down-play the extremely right-wing of this group or who would like to suggest that the group is not political. Verbal has not, afaik, broken WP:3RR or WP:CIVIL. Verbal's edits have not been tendentuous nor have they been pushing an inaccurate POV. This ANI is frivolous. Simonm223 (talk) 17:15, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

There shouldn't be an issue here if the terms are sourced. Cptnono says that the terms are unqualified. I looked at the page, and I didn't see that the term "far right" was sourced. If it's so obvious, it shouldn't be an issue to source. Auntie E. 17:29, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Far right is in the sources. The group dispute it and it falls under the words to avoid guideline since it is a label. I think it should be included. It should simply say "by the British press" as it already does in the prose. Per Some words may be used to label a group from an outside perspective, even though these words are used in accordance with a dictionary definition...Such terms, even when accurate, often convey to readers an implied viewpoint: that of an outsider looking in and labeling as they see it. The fact that a term is accepted "outside" but not "inside" is a good indicator that it may not be neutral... There are at least three ways to deal with this: attribute the term to reliable sources, ... -WP:WORDS Basically "The British press describe the EDL as far right. (currently in the prose) > The English Defence League (EDL) is an English far right... (currently in the lead). There are also concerns which I have reiterated over and over again.
I also feel Verbal is the POV pusher which can be seen from a quick ctrl+f search through the talk pages, his reverts, and the two other recent ANIs against him. This ANI isn't about that, though. It is about his deletion of a POV check template.Cptnono (talk) 17:43, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
I see that now it is sourced, but disputed. I don't see a sourced label as a "word to avoid", do you have a link? Auntie E. 17:50, 24 October 2009 (UTC
So what POV do you claim Verbal's pushing? The other ANIs had nothing to do with politics, they were about his supporting NPOV in science articles that bothered some fringe promoters, so that's a red herring. Auntie E. 17:52, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Words to avoid#Words that may advance a point of view#Words that label.
What? Leaky Caldrun's (the 21st) was actually this article. Furthermore, it doesn't have to be about politics. In this case, though, his goal appears to be to prove to the editor that EDL are bad and far right. Although he might have the moral highground it is still pushing a POV.Cptnono (talk) 17:58, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
The NPOV template is clearly warranted, there is active dispute about the neutrality of it and I see no reason not to have the template. Off2riorob (talk) 18:03, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Regarding the ANIs: I thought there were two on Colloidal silver, sorry, one was on another noticeboard. Still, it's not relevant here. This sounds like a content issue that I shouldn't have stuck my nose in. Auntie E. 18:09, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
It is not related. I think the recent history is a problem but that is an issue to only be taken into account if an admin wants to consider a block. As it is, the article needs a POV check and it is a problem that Verbal is trying to control content by removing the dispute tag and then the check tag.Cptnono (talk) 18:15, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

I added the NPOV template as I also suport that the article has issues and User Verbal has immediatly reverted my addition with an edit summary of.." One editor is not a dispute. Please get consensus for tag".. Under these commented discussions and there is a clear opinion that there is a NPOV issue I feel that User Verbal is continuing the behaviour that brought him here. There is clearly a NPOV issue and removal of the template under these conditions is excessive and unnecessary. Off2riorob (talk) 20:06, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

You didn't mention that you also had issues, and there are no ongoing issues on the talk page that directly relate to the neutrality (cptnono brings up far right, but no one else agrees with him). I suggest you go to the talk page of the article. Verbal chat 20:12, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
User Verbal is on or over the bright line that is 3RR on that article and I have left him a warning on his talkpage here . Off2riorob (talk) 20:14, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
I fail to see how you can say you didn't know I had issues with that page, I have commented here that the page warrants a npov template and then I actually added it, yo8u should put it back until issues here and there are sorted out, the wheels won't drop of the article if it has a npov template will it, I fail to see your reasons for rushing to remove it. Off2riorob (talk) 20:17, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
I have listed other reasons on the talk page a few times. I don't know why you continue to only focus on one part of the concern. Unschool has also proposed an alternative draft. On top of that, Off2riorob has also attmepted to add the template. Stop reverting.Cptnono (talk) 20:20, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm afraid I reverted to your pointless tag again. Why on Earth should I read this page to find out what content you want in the article? That's what the article talk page is for. You two are in a very tiny minority, and cptnono's repeatedly bringing up the same answered "concerns" is disruptive and annoying. Verbal chat
Your failure to address the issues and reverts (it obviously wasn't vandalism) are annoying. This is a great example of why you need to critically evaluate your own editing and talk page behavior.Cptnono (talk) 20:24, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
As one of the contributors to EDL I want to say that regardless of what the final version looks like, it's NPOV will always be challenged by someone. There has been progress today but NPOV issues swirl around it. It's only a tag. It might get others involved. I'm pleased that Verbal thinks that the current version [8] IS NPOV since the lead has been a major source of conflict between us (and others) for 10 days. However, I would ask him to concede that others will think it needs more work to improve the article's NPOV and just leave the tag on for a period. It's only a tag FFS and confers meaning only to those who seek it. Let's polish the article, not the top margin. Leaky Caldron 20:23, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
User Verbal has self reverted and I really appreciate that, take a little (more) time and chat on the talkpage and try to find a compromise that is acceptable to both sides. Off2riorob (talk) 20:26, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
I suggest closing this as resolved. Lets say that this is not going anywhere here and close this drama, take a step back and over the next few days try to resolve issues on the talkpage a bit more. Off2riorob (talk) 20:34, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Are there any objections to this position? Off2riorob (talk) 20:37, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm wanting to see some admonishment but that is probably exactly why this should be closed. Discussion can continue on the talk page. Cptnono (talk) 20:54, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Why should I be admonished for acting properly? The tag is pointless, and it's hard for those of us acting in good faith to keep the uninformed POV of some editors, and intentional POV of others, out of this and similar articles. Off2riorob and cptnono are not helping improve this article, and indefinite tagging - as proposed by off2riorob - is never acceptable. Verbal chat 11:37, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Daylight Saving - Europe

Yes check.svg Resolved. Master of Puppets 05:50, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Today the clocks go back in Europe. Should the main page not mention this? I apologise if this is not the best place to mention this - but, obviously, a quick response is needed and I do not know how else to attract the attention of someone who can take the necessary action. JMBryant —Preceding unsigned comment added by JMBryant (talkcontribs) 05:25, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

That's not a big deal IMHO. But you can suggest it at Wikipedia:In the news/Candidates if you like. ≈ Chamal talk ¤ 05:36, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Considering that this happens every year (to the best of my knowledge, at least), I don't think it's an ITN candidate. You could try Wikipedia:On this day, though I'm not sure how well that would go either. I'm marking this as resolved, though, as this isn't the appropriate forum (if somebody can move it to one that is, that would be great - I need sleep). Master of Puppets 05:50, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I do not know how to get there - and cannot spare the time to learn right now. Inasmuch as this is something that needs to be done soon or not at all can anyone who knows how please do it - and, yes, On This Day would be better - but I don't know how to change that, either. Twice each year people are inconvenienced by failing to remember daylight saving on/off dates so reminders in public places (like Wikipedia) are a useful service. JMBryant —Preceding undated comment added 05:58, 25 October 2009 (UTC).
Right, but the world isn't just Europe (see for the USA), so we would need to do every time change for every country, which is soemthing we don't do. MBisanz talk 07:12, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Your input is appreciated though, JMBryant, even if we don't implement it. So please don't hesitate to provide suggestions in the future (generally, a better venue is at the appropriate village pump page). Thanks! Master of Puppets 11:34, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Page move / redirect problem

Resolved: moved. -- zzuuzz (talk) 10:30, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Something is going on with Dick Smith and related articles. appears to have moved the page Dick Smith to Dick Smith (entreprenuer) - which of course has been misspelled. My attempt to move it to the correct spelling was unsuccessful - because Dick Smith (entrepreneur) has likewise been blanked and the content moved to the incorrect spelling by the same user. There is no auto-redirect at Dick Smith either. I do not understand how something like this gets fixed. I'd be grateful if someone could have a look at it. hamiltonstone (talk) 10:19, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I've moved it to Dick Smith (entrepreneur), with Dick Smith redirecting there. Presumably something else is going to put at Dick Smith, like a disambiguation page. -- zzuuzz (talk) 10:30, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Trying to insert information on Ibrahim Zakzaky, but being deleted.


I am trying to insert biographical information on Ibrahim Zakzaky - see: . It has a reliable source so it should be OK, but someone keeps removing it and I don't know why. The paragraph is:

According to former Iranian diplomat Adel Assadinia, the IMN was set up with the financial support of the Iranian government and is modelled on the Lebanese Hezbollah.[4] He said that Iran provides IMN with training "in guerrilla warfare: bomb-making, use of arms such as handguns, rifles and RPGs, and the manufacturing of bombs and hand grenades." He suggests the IMN could be used to strike Western interests in the event of conflict.

I don't know what I should do about it or if I have done something wrong. Please help. From Yassin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 09:54, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

The account responsible (Tajomalli (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)) for removing that text seems to be a single purpose account that has been slow edit warring on the page and inserting copyright text. I've restored the deleted material, removed the copyright text and warned the user for copyio, but there is a serious lack of communication.--Crossmr (talk) 10:09, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Tajomalli notified of this conversation on user talk. - 4twenty42o (talk) 10:30, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I think an admin needs to come in and have a look at this user. He seems to be a SPA with a sole focus and so far his edits consist mainly of edit warring to a version containing copyright text, twiceonce after being warned for it. I've also warned him for 3RR, (he's at 4, but they came before his warning).--Crossmr (talk) 16:02, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Ioannis Marougkas 10

Resolved: indef block for repeatedly creating hoaxes and repeatedly adding false info to Wikipedia. Toddst1 (talk) 16:13, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Hi, can an admin please take a look at the contributions and creations of Ioannis Marougkas 10 (talk · contribs), I have just tagged three of his articles for speedy deletion due to being blatant hoaxes, and his talk page is full of notices about him creating hoax articles in the past. Cheers, GiantSnowman 15:03, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, I think it far beyond time someone trouts this guy. HalfShadow (talk) 15:58, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Surprise, surprise...

Resolved: Chao19 blocked for 72 hours, Frmatt counseled to read WP:VAND#NOT. --Elonka 04:23, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Chao19 (talk · contribs) came off his block ,and went right back to his template removal and harassment... this time, throwing in some useless unsourced chatter, too... It seems the short term blocks are not helping him to learn how to properly edit... hopefully something a little longer this time? - Adolphus79 (talk) 03:35, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Removed some stuff from the Creed (band) page (as well as their discography page), it looks like he's headed for a 3rr violation (very quickly too!) Is there an admin who can look after this user? Frmatt (talk) 04:04, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
and they have now left [9] this on my talk page. Oh, isn't he just a joy to have around? I've left a note over at WP:3RR and will shortly be heading to Witiquette alerts too! Frmatt (talk) 04:15, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Never mind, User:Elonka just blocked them before I could finish the 3RR report, so nothing anywhere else! Frmatt (talk) 04:19, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I'm not sure 72 hours was really the new logical step... he's already blown through a 31 hour and 55 hour block, coming back to continue without any changes (see here and here for details)... 72 hours is not going to change anything either... I was personally hoping for a week or month (if not indef), due to the repeated blocking, with no intentions of changing his editing patterns... - Adolphus79 (talk) 04:24, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
In reviewing his recent history, he had made a few reverts which were effectively content edits, all of which were reverted as "vandalism". It was only after that, that he started to resort to profanity. If/when the user returns, it's important to treat him with civility, and THEN if he continues to be disruptive, a longer block may be appropriate. But it's not appropriate to call a user names, and then expect them to receive a lengthy block when they react with aggression. --Elonka 04:41, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I dropped the blocked editor a message and offered to try to help him find the verifiable sources. It looks like he feels bullied. Perhaps a review of bite and civility for all parties is needed. - 4twenty42o (talk) 04:47, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Ummm, how does WP:BITE apply here? He's been around longer than I have (at least since I've been here regularly)...and how exactly was I un-civil towards him in my interactions with him? And yes, they were content edits, but entirely unsourced and unsourceable (at least by any means I know of). I will admit freely that I shouldn't have hit the "revert vandal" button, but I believe that I explained my actions and the reasoning behind them very clearly using the proper templates. I even gave him a note as he was heading for 3RR to give him an opportunity to stop the edit war and provide proper sources. Frmatt (talk) 04:49, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Apologies, that comment was in and of itself uncivil...I'm just feeling a little frustrated at the moment. Tomorrow's forced wiki-break (out of the house all day!) will probably be good for me! Frmatt (talk) 05:05, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Did anyone bother reading this or this? I was very civil (and certainly not BITEy), Chao19 does not care about policy, and has blatently made those edits to prove his point... I was told the last block that "we'll see what happens when he comes back, and give him a longer block if he keeps it up", and I guaranteed that he would (note the title of this section)... all parties involved do not need to review WP:BITE or WP:CIVIL, all parties involved need to read the background on this case... no one was BITEy (user has been here 1.5 years), and the only person that has been incivil is Chao19...
So basically, this is going to all repeat itself yet again in another 4 or 5 days, when he comes back from this block and starts his disruptive edits and harassment agin, and again, the block will be extended only a couple more hours, and everyone will call it resolved... How many times is it going to take for me to get a blocking admin that realizes this editor does not care about policy, and never will? Someone just let me know, so I don't bother posting the history of this case each and everytime, and just wait until block number 7 or whatever to finally have this case actually resolved... - Adolphus79 (talk) 04:56, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I assume from the lack of any further discussion that this situation is going to be marked as resolved, and ignored until it happens again? - Adolphus79 (talk) 16:43, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

User:Yankees10 and User:Johnny Spasm proposed editing restriction

Section moved to WP:AN#User:Yankees10 and User:Johnny Spasm proposed editing restriction. Wknight94 talk 20:27, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

F.E.A.S.T. and Hungry: A Mother and Daughter Fight Anorexia

Could I request these two articles be deleted for non-notability? They've also been added as linkspam to eating disorder-related articles. I'd file an AfD, but was under the impression that anonymous editors shouldn't do so. Thanks. :) — (talk) 17:46, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

There's nothing wrong with being an anon and filing an AfD! Go IP addresses! —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:56, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
As long as your provide a reason, it doesn't matter who is making the nomination. We are all anonymous internet users after all! - ʄɭoʏɗiaɲ τ ¢ 18:00, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Except IP's can't send anything to an AfD because they can't create the required page. Enter CambridgeBayWeather, waits for audience applause, not a sausage 19:02, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Procedure not being followed, need administrative attention to follow procedure

Resolved: AFD started User:SRMach5B

The talk page of the Malia Obama article has more than one editor agreeing that Malia Obama is marginally notable. Wikipedia prohibits only non-notable biographies but has thousands of marginally notable people.

Wikipedia's WP:BLPNAME policy prohibits naming of children unless they are notable. Since Malia's name is all over Wikipedia, this shows that she is notable. Only a few extremists would say that her name must be blacked out because of the BLPNAME policy.

Furthermore, if one disputes the existance of an article, they should start an AFD discussion.

Because 3 different types of violations of Wikipedia policies, the Malia Obama article must be recreated and anyone disagreeing may submit an AFD. The last AFD was over a year ago when Malia was a little known daughter of a political candidate. This has changed as far as reliable source coverage and notability. Even some editors who oppose the article have admitted that she is "notable" (calling her marginally notable). SRMach5B (talk) 18:06, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

The article was not deleted, it was redirected, as seems to be appropriate, to the section on the President's family. I don't see the procedural failure here. I understand you don't agree. Talk:Family of Barack Obama#Malia Obama article appears to be the place for current discussion? The article talk pages are available for presenting explanations of why WP will be better served by having a separate article, but her notability seems to be entirely attached to being the daughter of the President, and I don't think there will be great support for the article, right off hand.- Sinneed 18:21, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
One issue is that some supporters (not me and I am a supporter) of the President think that he wants no mention of the children. However, there are White House photos continually released, unlike the Spanish prime minister who refuses to release photos of his children. Unlike Sasha, Malia has quite a few articles specifically about her. But the ANI issue is no longer a point since there is an AFD open. SRMach5B (talk) 18:30, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
It was at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Malia Obama (2009) but is now closed as it wasn't filed correctly, and no this isn't just bureaucracy for the sake of it. It was badly formatted so as not to appear in the current AfD and changing a redirect to an article is not normally done as an AfD. Enter CambridgeBayWeather, waits for audience applause, not a sausage 19:25, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Legal threat; also SPA and COI

Resolved: SPA now indefblocked and in rampant socking stage; apply WP:RBI.  Sandstein  20:58, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Republic of Ireland postal addresses has, for some time now, had problems with an SPA editor, User:Garydubh, inserting COI material about a GPS/GIS system that his company, GPS Ireland Consultants Ltd, is marketing. This system isn't official and has nothing to do with the official post code system being introduced. On 20th October, a new editor, User:Secretary-whbtc, reintroduced the material about the "independent postcode". I removed it again. After I re-removed it a second time and posted to the talk page, I received this legal threat both on the article talk page and on my own talk page. The disputed material was also subeseqently reintroduced by another SPA, User:Ww2censorbastun (User:Garydubh has also been in dispute with User:Ww2censor in the past, who also tried to keep the COI material off the page). Can an admin take a look at this, please? BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 11:10, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

I have blocked User:Garydubh for making a legal threat. For the other accounts, I would suggest filing a report at WP:SPI. TNXMan 11:52, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Another legal threat, this time from an anon IP, on my userpage here, and on Talk:Republic of Ireland postal addresses. BastunĖġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ! 23:45, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Bastun - there is no "another legal threat" at that link - you have caused 2 people to be indefinitely blocked - you have a responsibility now to revisit your reasons for starting this and be sure that there is justification... (talk) 09:41, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Those are obviously the same person or a group of buddies. Block'em all. GoodDay (talk) 23:51, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Blocked, but not by me. TNXMan 01:01, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Just to note that there have been a number of unhelpful e-mails in this matter, presumably from the blocked editor(s), at WP:OTRS ticket 2009102310050555, to which I've now stopped replying.  Sandstein  19:38, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Sandstein, Pierre Gres - you have e-mails which you received as you are answering a wikipedia support e-mail address posted on wikipedia relating to this issue. You chose to do nothing and decided to use them as an excuse to exacerbate this situation. There was nothing "unhelpful" in those e-mails except your comment which indicated your refusal to do anything - very unhelpful!!! Furthermore, when you were sent private e-mails which categorically show that there is no link or relationship between me and Secretary - you have also chosen to do nothing about them - also very unhelpful. The purpose of those in support is to help not exacerbate surely.... should someone with so much adverse comment here be involved in any situation where there is a dispute like this: (talk) 09:41, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
The OTRS e-mails, as any volunteer can check, consists of requests to intervene in the content dispute and requests for unblock. In reply, I have advised the sender of the e-mails that content disputes and unblock requests are not mediated through OTRS, but only through the on-wiki dispute resolution and block appeals procedure. If the blocked editor(s) feel that there is anything in these e-mails that is relevant to their block, they may post them on-wiki or forward them to the unblock-en-l mailing list as advised in the unblock instructions.  Sandstein  09:50, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
  • I have blocked Secretary-whbtc as a likely meatpuppet of Garydubh. Before this current dispute, this user hadn't edited since January. And now he shows up. Quack ... Blueboy96 19:45, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Blueboy - please check this again - you are incorrect and Sandstein has private e-mails which prove you are incorrect - you have a repsonsibility to check this out fully and Pierre Gres (Sandstein) has a responsibility to advise you what the e-mails he was sent show (talk) 09:41, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

There are a few accusations above 1. "A GPS/GIS system .....this system isn't official and has nothing to do with the official postcode system being introduced" - The introduction of a postcode in Ireland is the subject of an open Government Tender Competition for which GPS Ireland is perfectly eligible to enter with its system - Bastun is not in a position to judge what is suitable or unsuitable or "official" or not - that is the perogative of the Irish Government. 2. That the writer of "Independent Post Code" had COI - Secreatary has himself written on the discussion page clearly indicating that he has no COI - Sandstein has information which clearly shows that he is not related in any way to anyone associated to the Independent System.

3. Garydubh in dispute with www2censor - Garydubh has not edited this article since April 2008 and has not been involved in discussion on this article since Jan 2009. Bastun's unjustified treatment of Secretary has brought him back to discussion - but he is not an "editor" - discussion and editing are two differnt things.

4. Legal Threat - long since removed and a statement of regret made.

5. COI - not the case and Peirre Gres has absolute proof if he or anyone else chooses to use it.

6. SPA - Secetary is not an SPA - is comment on the discussion page shows that he has edited other articles. Garydubh cannot be accused of being an SPA as he has not edited any article since April 2008 and has not been involved in discussion on any article since Jan 2009 - until Bastun decided to allege COI of an independent editor entering comment on an independent system for which his arguments for removal do not stand up. (talk) 10:09, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I've re-blocked that IP for continued block evasion by Garydubh (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log). Garydubh has been given ample advice what to do to request unblock, and it does not include evading a block by changing IP addresses. No opinion about the merits of the original meatpuppetry / NLT block, though the confrontative WP:SPA attitude does not bode well for this editor's future on Wikipedia.  Sandstein  10:21, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I've also blocked as socks two new accounts who have been attempting to alter the discussion above, Bolev (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) and Gurbut (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log). Marking this as resolved.  Sandstein  20:58, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Fast Way to Comment Out Links?

As per Talk:Van_Morrison#Link_to_Van_Morrison_Website I'm commenting out links to and but it's slow going and I have to leave soon. Is there a faster way of doing this with admin tools? --NeilN talkcontribs 14:05, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

It looks like the issue with the Van Morrison site containing trojans has been resolved. How many links are you talking about though? If there are more than a handful, the ones not supported by WP:EL should be removed (using a bot if there's a really large number), not commented out. If there's just a handful, commenting them out by hand shouldn't be that difficult. (talk) 22:56, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Shankbone

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The DRV is over here. — Jake Wartenberg 18:05, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Resolved: Closed. Hersfold (t/a/c) 16:41, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Due to close. Warmly, NonvocalScream (talk) 14:52, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm glad we're treating this as we would any other BLP, including the customary message on ANI about impending closure. Delicious carbuncle (talk) 14:56, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I'll take that with a touch of humor :) Best, NonvocalScream (talk) 17:21, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
What does it take to make some people observe proper process? I've no opinion about the article or the result, but AfDs run for a minimum of seven days, which would have been until 22:39, 25 October 2009 (UTC). This means that the AfD was closed several hours early for no good reason, and I'd support a DRV complaint on this basis. Yes, a few hours more would not have changed the result, but if we accept this, then why do we have a minimum AfD duration (recently increased from 5 to 7 days) at all?  Sandstein  16:50, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I don't get it. You would have supported a DRV complaint even since you also state that a few hours would not have changed the result? I know you are experienced and perhaps even largely vested, but I must remind you sir... please don't DRV a discussion just to make a point about the procedure. Warmly, NonvocalScream (talk) 17:24, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Not to mention the amusing suggestion that only four of the keeps were weak (at least a half dozen were boilerplate ARS canvass-fodder), but that's a matter for DRV I suppose. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 16:54, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Why do we have a minimum at all? Sounds like bureaucracy to me. Chillum 17:00, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Presumably it acts as a safeguard against bad closes caused by a skewing of the early responses. WP:SNOW is there for genuine no-brainers. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 17:13, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I've re-opened this debate. WP:AFD is explicit about "at least seven days." I see no reason to make an exception in this case; in fact, I see all the more reason to follow the rules by the letter. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:24, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I have re-closed it. You do not challenge a closure by reverting it, you can talk to the closing admin first at least, or file for DRV. You are talking about hours over the course of a week, this seems to accomplish little. Chillum 17:25, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
  • Note I was mistaken in thinking that the closing admin was not contacted, it happened off wiki and I did not realize until later. Chillum 18:22, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
You must not war over the close. We have a process, however, I think you should talk to the closer firstly. NonvocalScream (talk) 17:26, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Could someone please review this diff and advise if it is an appropriate removal of another editor's talk page comments? This is part of a long term pattern of questionable edits by Arzel. I can dig up additional diffs if necessary, but I'd like to keep this as narrow of a scope as possible. I've had a long history with Arzel, so I would appreciate it if someone else were to talk a look and address the issue. //Blaxthos ( t / c ) 21:34, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

And this requires admin intervention in what way? --Tom (talk) 21:45, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
The comment looks more like an opinion than a constructive suggestion for improving the article, but it's borderline and obviously removing it is causing more drama than would have been created by leaving it or moving it into the appropriate section. I would have refactored it to a subsection of the existing discussion, and I think it's likely it would have not received any responses, but I can see where User:Arzel was coming from, in that it's important to try to keep discussions on that particular talk page on track. user:J aka justen (talk) 21:49, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
The question was posed here because (1) I have a history with Arzel; (2) Arzel has a historical pattern of making such questionable edits, for which he's been blocked in the past; and (3) I wanted uninvolved opinions on the matter. You guys should disclose that you have previous dealings both with Arzel and with me. Thanks. //Blaxthos ( t / c ) 21:52, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Eh? I've seen User:Arzel's name in discussions; I don't "have [any] previous dealings" with him so far as I know. Having discussed other articles with you had no impact on my response to you here, as I would hope you could tell by my response. I don't know what to say if you feel my response is biased against you in some way, but I don't intend to preface any comments I make with "I've discussed other issues with User:Blaxthos before, but I'm here to say..." user:J aka justen (talk) 21:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
j, I believe Blaxthos was talking about me, but I could be wrong, I run about 25% wrong :). Unless there is some edit war or bigger thing here, don't knowwhat an admin would do. Anyways, --Tom (talk) 22:02, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

(←) I believe I qualify as uninvolved. I don't think Arzel should have removed that comment. The editor appears to have been asking about whether or not particular information should be included in the article. This to my mind seems an appropriate use of an article talkpage. Arzel's characterisation of the edit as WP:FORUM is therefore erroneous in this case and the comment should be restored. As for what should be done with Arzel, I'll defer to the wisdom of others. Crafty (talk) 22:11, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

  • I have always felt that removing the comments made by others is not a good idea. The comment was bordering forum-speak, to which they should have been advised so on their talk page. Removing it, however, doesn't seem like such a good idea. I would advise for Azrel to not remove talkpage comments that are borderline and instead engage the user on their talk page. Basket of Puppies 22:38, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
  • What a sickening display of pettiness on the part of Blaxthos. This report is motivated entirely on his personal vendetta against me. Please tell me the difference between my edit and this edit or this edit by Blaxthos in the past month. Furthermore, if this was such an egregious edit why didn't he just revert it, or anyone revert it for that matter? Arzel (talk) 23:54, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Why do you revert these edits in the first place? I understand the "not a forum rule", but it seems to me you are a touch zealous about this. Surely there can be some discussion about the subject matter of articles on their talkpages? Crafty (talk) 00:05, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
"these edits"? I only removed one comment from the FNC talk page. The other two edits were basically the same type of comments removed by Blaxthos on other articles. If his are fine and mine is bad I would like to know what the difference is.
I only removed the one comment mentioned in the original complaint because is sounded like forum talk to me. Maybe it is, maybe it is not, it wasn't restored by Blaxthos or anyone else involved here at this time, so it doesn't appear to have been a comment that is intended on improving the content of the article. Arzel (talk) 00:21, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/David Shankbone redux

Resolved: now closed. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 01:06, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

It is 4:39 pm (UTC-6) today, I believe exactly seven days. Can we close? Best, NonvocalScream (talk) 22:39, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

My image uploads getting CSDed within 3 minutes of uploading. Is that reasonable?

Resolved: ZooFari has owned up to being a bit too quick with the old autoedits, and has apologised at the user's talkpage --Elen of the Roads (talk) 02:33, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I'm attempting to upload a number of record cover images for use in single infoboxes, but they are being nominated for deletion as orphaned before I have had a chance to add them to the infoboxes. I still have many that I can upload, but if they are going to be CSDed as I try, what's the point? Markfury3000 (talk) 00:12, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Are they all being dumped by the one admin? you could try having a word with him/her. Also (correct me if I'm wrong here) can't you add the fair use rationalle at the time of uploading, before adding to the infobox?--Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:17, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
When I say "CSDed" I meant tagged with a CSD, not actually deleted. I always add the fair use rationale and licensing when I upload. Markfury3000 (talk) 00:20, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Orphaned image CSDs must be orphaned for a week before deletion. So you have a week to write up a fair-use rationale and add it to an article. Someguy1221 (talk) 00:21, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
I must admit, I had visions of one of the admins on speed, sat at the pc crazily deleting Markfury's images :) As it is, it sounds like a recent changes patroller being very up to the mark. The admin reviewing the CSD will decline it if the image is not orphaned and the paperwork is in place. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:28, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
It does seem to me a little pointy to CSD tag record cover images as orphaned when the proper target to place each of them in is obvious. It would have made more sense for the patroller to remind him to do it as he went along, or, even better, add the link and the rationale, thus helping their fellow editor. DGG ( talk ) 00:53, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
OP has had an apology, so I guess this is resolved now? NotAnIP83:149:66:11 (talk) 01:02, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Trouble with Werdnabot

Please see User talk:Werdnabot#Bot fail. Werdnabot is undoubtedly one of our most heavily used bots, and I don't particularly like to talk about blocking it, but there has been an outstanding issue on the talk page for eight days now, and no sign of User:Werdna since October 3, excepting a single edit October 19. The combination of an unattended bot making errors and an operator who can't be reached is not acceptable, even if it's an essential bot with a respected operator. As such, while I don't like to talk about blocking Werdnabot, I'm nonetheless going to ask that the community consider it. I am aware of the large negative repercussions, but after going this long without being able to contact the operator, I can't continue to ignore it. Gavia immer (talk) 03:35, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Has anyone tried emailing him? I've had off-wiki communication with him far more recently than when he disappeared from here. Someguy1221 (talk) 03:39, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
I can't speak for the other editors, but I have not. I personally check my onwiki talk page more often than my account email, though of course that doesn't mean the same is true of others. Gavia immer (talk) 03:49, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
I've since sent him an email; thanks for the reminder. Gavia immer (talk) 04:10, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
My understanding is Werdna has been very busy with live testing and bug fixing of Liquid Threads at He's been responding to feedback threads there. You can try leaving a message on his talk page there about this, but we may need to be patient. Equazcion (talk) 04:29, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

SPA at Atmospheric water generator repeatedly removing sourced info and inserting copyright-violation images

I posted this at wp:COIN 9 hours ago[10] but it looks like that noticeboard gets very little attention these days. Meanwhile the SPA has continued reverting to their preferred version (complete with copyright violation images).[11] This is the fifth time Mateyahoy (talk · contribs) has reverted to the same version since October 15 while making no other mainspace edits. The only explanations given (for reverting additions of NYT, NPR, and Science Daily sources, better writing, wikifying) are that they will "add more info soon" (it's been 9 days!) and that the images self-made. I've already tagged the images for deletion at Commons,[12][13] but I could use some help with Mateyahoy, who only seems interested in maintaining an old version of the article while not editing any other article. T34CH (talk) 00:03, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

I have notified Mateyahoy of this thread. Please note this is a REQUIREMENT of filing an incident here. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:37, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Elen

When I first saw the AWG page it was full of misinformation and as an AWG engineer I have tried to add reliable information. T34CH is adding information that is total misinformation such as his statement that Calcium and Magnesium are added because the water is so pure etc... Insofar as the images go I created them and agreed to the waiver. I have suggested to him to keep his edits to the desiccant section but he doesn't seem to want to do this. I dont have a lot of time right now to add more new information but misinformation doesn't help anyone. I will add some better info to the discussion page, that may help clear up any misunderstandings.


--Mateyahoy (talk) 05:37, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

The problem is, you took out a lot of referenced content and added a lot of cheerful "in my experience" type content. This is not going to go down well. Are there some textbooks on atmospheric water generators out there you can cite to show that your unsourced content is more accurate than that which was there before. If you have references, fine. If not, you need to leave the article alone until you have them, rather than change the content and promise the references later. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:11, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Elen There are no textbooks on AWGs. The information that is on the page is accurate referanced information. The info T34 is trying to add is misinformation. I have suggested in discussion that he confine his addition of desiccants to a single heading on the page and then it can be looked at by all and a desicion made as to its relevance and accuracy. All of the information on the page was put there by others except I added the pictures to give a better idea of their looks and how it works. Any of the rest of the information was added or edited by others, but I do agree with their edits.

I have added no cheerful in my experience content at all, except to the discussion page, where I am not trying to start a fight but rather help people understand how AWGs really work.

--Mateyahoy (talk) 06:47, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

  • Mateyahoy has now made the same set of edits three times, and been reverted by three different people (none of them me) in the space of 2hrs. Frmtt gave him a level 1 warning and Tide Rolls a level 2 (read and removed). Although I wasn't the one reverting, I have added a level 3 warning.Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Mateyahoy, the other editors have included references. Don't take this the wrong way, but for all anyone knows, you could be making all that stuff up - you might be an engineer of 20 years experience, or you might be a bored short order cook on a slow night. That's why Wikipedia insists on sources. You must stop until you have something that can back you up, otherwise you will end up being blocked. Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Did you ever think to read any of the info and look at the page history to see where the info came from. I have been supporting proper edits of real information that others have put up. My only real contribution was the photos. Any information that I put up was edited out.

Let me repeat any info that I have been putting up was the original info that Luttinger and T34 have been taking down. It seems to me you are fighting without even reading the info, but if you like the information they are supplying and think its accurate then God Bless. --Mateyahoy (talk) 08:44, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

There is a small number of editors at WP:COIN who respond to requests. I generally respond to everything posted there if someone else doesn't first. Recently there was some controvery at Vivek Kundra involving sockpuppetry, edit wars, page protection, it was a mess. Sorry if the squeakier wheel got the grease. :( In any case, I'll respond here instead of over there... It seems to me that this editor likely has a conflict of interest in their edits. There is no "smoking gun" per se; they haven't claimed to be associated with any company or shown a definitive tie. However, the single-purposed nature of their edits that seem intended to promote "Everet Water" should make it clear. That combined with the spamming, edit wars, original research, and unwillingness to even approach a compromise and constant user page blanking seems to indicate to me an editor not likely to ever be productive to the project. I'd support an indef block if they don't change their ways soon. -- Atama 06:04, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Looks like the squeeky wheel is getting the grease here as well. I thought the whole point of Wikipedia was to disseminate real information not misinformation. --Mateyahoy (talk) 06:47, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia is based upon verfication not 'truth', if you can't provide a reliable source for a piece of information, we can't verify it and it is likely to be removed. --Cameron Scott (talk) 10:51, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Mateyahoy has reuploaded the images even though their web source has a copyright notice at the bottom. image on commons and on; image here, and on Looking over the history, this article has been the target of numerous SPA's in the past. One of the previous SPA's was actually Mateyahoy as (talk · contribs)[14][15] T34CH (talk) 17:43, 25 October 2009 (UTC) was my address before I had an account :) Since I received an account I have always tried to remeber to log in first.
The images were re-uploaded with appropriate permissions :)
The information you keep uploading is not accurate and is misleading :(
Cheers Mateyahoy (talk) 19:58, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Permission from who? The webpages indicate copyrighted material. Please change the information on the Everest webpage. T34CH (talk) 20:13, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Why dont we follow Wikipedias rules instead of yours, and let the admins do their job? If they have a problem with the images I am sure they will let me know. Cheers Mateyahoy (talk) 20:48, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Here are the rules. Notice, given that the Everest website claims a copyright and used the images before you uploaded them, the burden of proof is on you to prove you are the owner. Anybody can copy an image from the web and post it on Wikipedia, claiming it was theirs. The admins will be doing their job when they get a chance. I suggest you give some sort of proof about the images and start cooperating with other editors at the article before they get around to this case. T34CH (talk) 21:03, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Like I said its already done, why are you still talking about it? The admins will take care of it if its a problem :) Cheers Mateyahoy (talk) 21:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
BTW when you start complaint here you are supposed to notify me, if Elen hadnt brought this to my notice I wouldnt have seen it at all. Mateyahoy (talk) 22:02, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
And I've deleted the local image that Mateyahoy has uploaded as an unambiguous copyright violation, and I'm certain the image on Commons will also be deleted in short order (I'm not an admin there). Mateyahoy, do *not* upload images from website and claim your own free license. T34CH is fully correct in this situation. It isn't a matter of whether or not admins have a problem, but one of copyright, and you are violating this. Consider this a final warning. Huntster (t @ c) 22:09, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Hunster I have followed the rules as per Wikipedia guidelines, there are no copyright violations T34CH is not correct and neither are you. Please refrain from speculation and stick to the facts. If there is a copyright problems then the admins will have a problem with the images, if there is no copyright violations they will not.
Lets repeat The images have been uploaded, wikipedia guidelines have been followed and the images have been placed in public domain following WIKIPEDIA rules. OK? Why dont we all just wait for a ruling from the admins? Mateyahoy (talk) 22:18, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Mateyahoy, I am an admin, which is how I deleted the local image. You refuse to provide any evidence that you own the copyright to those images, and both websites the images come from specifically describe a copyright that is of the "all rights reserved" variety. If you own these images, then you must show *proof* that you own them. Huntster (t @ c) 22:23, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Oh sorry I didnt realise you are an admin. I had a notice and emailed appropriate permissions to '' as per the instructions. Is there a problem with the email? Mateyahoy (talk) 22:35, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
There are several problems. One is that the website still claims copyright status. Another is that if you are the copyright owner, you have a wp:COI with editing the Atmospheric water generator article. T34CH (talk) 22:40, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
T34 I am pretty sure the admins will be able to handle this :) Mateyahoy (talk) 22:47, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Okay, the OTRS ticket has been received, and both images are in the clear. Thanks for sending the email Mateyahoy. I'll make sure both image descriptions are cleaned up appropriately. Huntster (t @ c) 22:50, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Thank You Mateyahoy (talk) 23:02, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
And just a note that both images are now at Commons: Commons:File:Atmospheric Water Generator diagram.jpg and Commons:File:Everestwateryeti12.jpg (with request to rename to a more descriptive title). Huntster (t @ c) 23:52, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Most of the "Dry desiccation with pressure condensation" section was copied from here, with grammatical errors intact. --John Nagle (talk) 02:31, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Thanks John, but I am at the point that if no one is that interested in how AWGs really work then I think I will just leave them at it.

But it is interesting that I was never notified by T34CH as per the rules

Also he has been using content that is copywritten. "Site developed by APL Technology and Management Ltd. All Rights Reserved."

I could point out a lot more problems with his content but Ill leave it to the admins to figure out.

Thanks Again Keep up the good work :) Mateyahoy (talk) 05:21, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Removal of vandalism warnings

Resolved: policy clarified Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 22:00, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

It is my understanding that removal of warnings from one's own talk page was allowed. The reasoning is that it is indication that one has read the warnings. However, I have now seen this given as a reason for blocking an IP user. In this particular case, I believe the user had commited other blockable offenses, but this was the ultimate reason given for the block. Of course, some things are supposed to remain on a user's page (e.g., sock, whois, and block templates), but I was under the understanding one could remove warning templates. Thanks. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 20:38, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

You are correct. As per WP:BLANKING, while we may prefer that comments be archived instead, policy does not prohibit users -including anonymous editors - from deleting messages or warnings from their own talk pages. — Kralizec! (talk) 20:43, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Thank you. I will alert the admin who issued the block, but no need to "name names" or anything. Thanks again. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 20:47, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Oh, I think you should name names. Why should admins get away with undoing the revision of an IP edit that removes a warning template when if an IP editor undoes the removal of content from an Admin's talk page, it is considered vandalism?-- (talk) 20:52, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
No need. As I said, I alerted the admin. It's not that hard to figure it out if you are really interested. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 21:58, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
You are right. If a person removes warnings from his/her talk page, then it is generally understood that he/she acknowledges the warnings. The problem with new/naive users is that, in removing warnings, some think that they can use the "I never got warned" defense (like with WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT). However, because all contributions are stored in page histories, that falls apart.
Users should not be blocked, however, for simply removing such warnings. MuZemike 20:53, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Fair is fair. If IPs and non-admin registered users have to have the "sockpuppet" "block" etc name-and-shame templates on their pages, admins should be named and shamed for their bad edits too.-- (talk) 20:55, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
You don't happen to be, are you? Just wondering, because both your IPs come from the same town. MuZemike 21:04, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I've been wondering that too MuZemike. They're from the same town, as is I had blocked 219.89... and then these other two have come along to comment at my talk page about the block. either way (talk) 21:31, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Funny you saying that because I thought that 219 editor was told to stay relevant. Which is completely opposite to what you are doing now. I also find it suspicious that you would take interest in me now considering that you just reverted my edits to your talk page ignoring them and then come here to blatantly accuse of me f such nonsense. I can see a great practise of WP:AGF here from an admin. Get a clue.-- (talk) 21:55, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Speaking of which, we are just talking about removal of content from talk pages, I should really just remove your comments right now because your question is not relevant to this discussion...oh hang on. You are admins, it is okay you can revert it back and then warn me for leading by example. Oh dear.-- (talk) 21:57, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

Don't say it cannot be done because you did it to that ip's comments here. no discusion with them firt, just straight to the revert, warn and revert any attempt to defend themselves. How patronizing.-- (talk) 22:00, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

The edits indicate clear block evasion and I have blocked all current IPs as such. MuZemike 05:47, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Problem with User:Mhouston310

Mhouston310 (talk · contribs) has repeated added a lot of WP:OR, not at all wiki formatted content that has also removed references with this edit to the Jim Bowden page. I have warned Mhouston310 several times, but the user has continued with no explanation.--Henry talk 20:54, 25 October 2009 (UTC)

For god/dess sake, someone stop Mhouston! I don't think he's even adding info about the same Jim Bowden. And Henryodell, I'd stop now, because you don't want to get into trouble for 3RR. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:34, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Note: with no judgment on the content itself, I have posted 3rr warnings to both Mhouston310 and Henryodell. --- Barek (talkcontribs) - 00:50, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Add socking to the account for Mhouston [16]--Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:56, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
And that account is ignoring warnings. Needs page protection and an SPI as I think Mhouston310 has edited as at least three other editors --Elen of the Roads (talk) 00:58, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I've filed RPP and SPI at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/Mhouston310. There are three IPs and Mhouston310 all adding the identical chunk of text about a person 20 years younger and with a slightly different full name. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:11, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I've also posted a 3RR warning to the most recent IP, as he is now at 4 reverts. Also, the edit summary on this edit could be interpreted as a legal threat if the intent is to file the defamation and harrassment charges off-wiki. --- Barek (talkcontribs) - 01:13, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
I'd just spotted that one :) Busy little blighter, isn't he. Netalarm seems to have taken over the reversion job. Wonder how long it'll be till the next sock pops out of the drawer. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:15, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Mhouston310 indef'd and all socks blocked for 31hrs. Hopefully things will quieten down a bit. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 01:21, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Last call (I hope). User:ShelbyBelle - note NOT User:ShelbyBell who has edited the article in a wholly legitimate manner - left a legal threat on Talk:Jim Bowden [17] which I have removed. If anyone wants to block User:ShelbyBelle as another Mhouston310 sock (the text of the threat is pretty identical to the one made by the IP above), I don't think anyone will be arguing. ShelbyBelle should be blocked anyway, as the username is a clear intent to impersonate, harass or otherwise annoy ShelbyBell. --Elen of the Roads (talk) 02:02, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

I've posted a templated warning to the user's talk page, using {{uw-legal}}. --- Barek (talkcontribs) - 02:18, 26 October 2009 (UTC)
Indefinitely blocked as a sock puppet along with making a legal threat. MuZemike 05:53, 26 October 2009 (UTC)


I wanted at least one more admin to be following the activities of this editor, who appears to be determined to be offensive to Jews and may well be a white supremacist. I warned him on my talk page when he called me a "nazi" and I think the pattern of his edits and activities indicates that in the future he will be extremely offensive to all with whom he comes in contact, with little chance of any useful contribution. I think I'm a little too personally involved now to be able to act with the appearance of impartiality, and I understand the relevant policy suggests I can't pre-emptively block him, so I would appreciate it if someone kept an eye on this editor; my experience suggests that he will need further admonishment, if not blocking, in short order. Thanks in advance. Accounting4Taste:talk 14:12, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

Indefblocked. Cut-and-dry racism, there. Tan | 39 14:14, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Thanks; I appreciate your taking a hand. (I frequently think I am too Pollyanna-ish about the possibility that editors will reform.) Accounting4Taste:talk 14:17, 23 October 2009 (UTC)
Nothing like this happens to those who personally abuse Palestinians and exhibit constant racism towards them as a group and towards any testimony from them. And deny the Nakba. Articles concerning Palestine are very distorted as a result. (talk) 13:33, 24 October 2009 (UTC)
Really? You have proof of this? Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 00:11, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
It's all over every article concerning the Middle East. Overlapping that problem is armed people involved white-washing incidents. There are some POV problems in articles like Fallujah during the Iraq War perhaps because they suffer the same problems, but they don't suffer editors denying ethnic cleansing and killings in the same obvious way. The English Defense League is making headlines in the UK at the moment, there is even interference there that looks rather like the same people carrying on even while they're being criticised on ANI here![18] (talk) 09:46, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
I can attest to this. I was dealing only a few weeks ago with an editor who sought to dispute or remove Arab sources from an article because he believed that Arabs have what he called a "generic storytelling culture" which makes anything they say unreliable (i.e. they are congenital liars). A number of editors rightly criticised this as overt racism. A while back, someone proposed on the reliable sources noticeboard that all Arab sources should be declared unreliable. The proposal didn't get anywhere, but it was dismaying to see several editors agreeing. There is, unfortunately, a significant amount of overt racial and religious prejudice in this topic area. -- ChrisO (talk) 11:45, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
Would people be prepared to look at the discussion on Al-Jazeera in particular and maybe this one on Arab News? (talk) 12:47, 25 October 2009 (UTC)
A number of editors rightly criticised this as overt racism - seems to me, then, that Wikipedia worked the way it's supposed to.