Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive617

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Hagger - please block[edit]

Resolved: indeff'd

NoolinDrive (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)[1]. One of the NPPs reverted [2] already. Appears to be Hagger. Thanks. Elen of the Roads (talk) 09:47, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Someone has already indef'd. S.G.(GH) ping! 10:26, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Two minutes after I posted. Excellent! --Elen of the Roads (talk) 10:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Use of inappropriate content[edit]

With a long history of deletions+2+3+4, this user (+smpile:+es:+AH+...) was now blocked in de:. As I am not well versed with legal issues in en:wiki, perhaps so. else could look over this? Thank you. --Trofobi (talk) 11:11, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

All your links point to soxred's tools, rather than diffs for dodgy content, so I'm not sure what the problem is. He seems to have been blocked for vandalism and spamming on de, he's not blocked on Simple or Spanish. There isn't a problem with him keeping that school essay summary of WWII on his userpage as long as it's not a copyright violation. He does seem keen to spam it into an article, but it would fail as a duplication of existing content on all Wikipedias I suspect - it's been turfed here already. The swastika image might alarm people, but the text is not pro german (in fact, it's an accurate if very simplistic summary of what happened in WWII). We wouldn't usually block a user here for disruption elsewhere on the project - such users usually manage to do enough to get blocked here as well!! --Elen of the Roads (talk) 11:56, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
In a nutshell, WP:ROPE... Salvio ( Let's talk 'bout it!) 13:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


Hello. Just wanted to ask someone (preferably admin) to help User:Mdupont with his edits. User add Albanian names wherever he find needed ([3]) constantly uses underscore in article space ([4]) uses some weird signature without links, ([5]) while his articles are in complete mess (Mosque Katip Sinan Qelebi). He also back up all of his articles in every possible place, including article talk page ([6]), his personal pages, (most of them meaningless) and his talk page. I tried to help him, and explain, ([7], [8], ) but he didn't reacted on my advices and guidance links. As a final act of misunderstanding, he tried to open arbitration, but filled it wrongly. Last dialog can be seen here. (User talk:Mdupont#Districts) User is not vandal, or anything like that, it looks like he love wikipedia, and we is here for long years, but he just need some help that will explain him everything CLEARLY and UNDERSTANDABLY. I just tried to help as some other users did in the past ([9]), but he didn't liked my help, per bit problematic point of view, that was already recognized earlier ([10]). As i will not talk with user anymore, please, i ask from some neutral admin to send him link or two with some guidelines, and help him implement those. As users articles topic is under WP:ARBMAC restriction, his adding of Albanian language everywhere may be problem. For more, sure, i am here. :) --Tadijaspeaks 20:34, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

Posted something to his talkpage. EyeSerenetalk 14:34, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Hello, I am being warned of what exactly? please explain. Also, I was not informed about this complaint. the adding of Albanian names to areas where Albanians live has precedence on the Kosovo article, so why not on other places. Am I being warned of being banned? For what offence, please be very specific? I feel like user User talk:Tadija has been wikihounding me and my edits. James Michael DuPont 18:09, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
I did not get a notification that I was dicussed. It seems that Hello. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. was not used. James Michael DuPont 20:22, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Here i have gotten a second opinion the albanian names in my favor: James Michael DuPont 20:22, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Gross Harrassment of User:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- )[edit]

Requestor consents to closing thread --Yworo (talk) 20:50, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Posting on Treasury Tag's page today I noticed an edit by NewYorkBrad which led me to what I think is the most vile and obvious case of wiki-hrassment I have come accross in 6 years here. I cannot be doing with all the diffs, but I have made my feelings clear here [11]. Yesterday as the result of soliciting by Treasury Tag [12] 2 edits there you can see his earlier soliciting above the editor was wrongly blocked [13], it now seems the victim had every cause to be so upset much of his work is nominated for deletion on one fould swoop, much of it by yes, you got it Treasury Tag! Perhaps some of these pages do meet criteria for deletion, I have not looked through them all, but have yet to find one, but the way this is being handled by treaury Taf, seemingly supported by certain others is vile and needs stopping. One of you Admins needs to step in and close the show down and see what exactly is going on.  Giacomo  14:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

  • See the previous ANI thread about this, which concluded that there was no inappropriate behaviour on my part. I have no further comment ot make on this issue at this time. ╟─TreasuryTagYou may go away now.─╢ 14:09, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    You are bullying and harassing.  Giacomo  14:11, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    Thanks for the clarification. ╟─TreasuryTagstannary parliament─╢ 14:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    Like Giacomo, I've not looked at them all here, but the same is going on at Commons now. Richard Arthur Norton is a longstanding productive member of this community and targeting his user space content and images here and at Commons seems like a very low blow. Unless there is evidence of egregious copyright problems - which I don't believe is the case - this needs to end now. Wknight94 talk 14:19, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    So the day after TreasuryTag files a 3RR case about you (now at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive132), you come here to complain about TreasuryTag bullying and harassing someone else (a case which had been looked into before here and found wanting), and go around voting keep on AfD's he nominated, going even so far as to revert comments he makes, with a personal attack edit summary to boot[14]? I would suggest that you leave this well alone, or you may have an acute case of WP:BOOMERANG. Fram (talk) 14:24, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Competely correct. If I were not on TT's page I would never have seen Brad's message telling him to back off! You may find a respected editor like RAN being driven to distraction a fine spectator sport - I do not!  Giacomo  14:28, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
My situation precisely. If I hadn't run into Richard in an unrelated venue, I would never have discovered his history of copyright and WP:NOTWEBHOST violations. ╟─TreasuryTagduumvirate─╢ 14:30, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • It's not uncommon when finding copyright violations or other image problems from a user to look through their other image contributions for problems. There are plenty of users (not Richard) who think it's acceptable to upload every image they find on the internet so for the most part, if you find one image with copyright problems from a user, you're going to find more. This isn't harassment. --B (talk) 14:30, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • TT said: "See the previous ANI thread about this, which concluded that there was no inappropriate behaviour on my part." This is not an accurate depiction, its not like TT was absolved. Like almost all issues raised at ANI, there's no jury verdict rendered at the end of a discussion, there's usually just some throwing-up-of-hands at the inanity of it all. GiacomoReturned took the time to review what is going on, and its no shock that he found it abhorrent.--Milowent (talk) 14:37, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • I find this comment at Commons (threat of summary block by user:Axpde for anyone "complaining of harassment") to be utterly contrary to the spirit of either project. Andy Dingley (talk) 14:39, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    • Just like Richard Arthur Norton's block for a comment made on Commons was a mistake, discussion of other comments, threats, warnings made about this on Commons are out of bounds here. But if such a comment was made on Wikipedia, it would not be "unterly contrary to the spirit", but just a logical conclusion of "Unfounded accusations of harassment may be considered a serious personal attack and dealt with accordingly" (from Wikipedia:Harassment). Fram (talk) 14:44, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
      • Blocking may indeed be appropriate, even for "complaining of harassment". However threatening summary blocks to all editors is far too close to using power for entirely the wrong purpose and simply stifling debate. Blocks are, after all, protective and never punitive. We don't need to act hastily, the appropriate actions can be taken slowly, by consensus, and in public sight. The cost of a workable open system is an acceptance that all editors, even the worst trolls and vandals, retain a path of appeal even when this does imply an extra workload for the community at large in "listening to the whining of the obviously culpable" (should it reach that point). Threats like this, and an acceptance of them, is a much greater risk to either project than some inappropriate uploads. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:16, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Surely both sides are in the wrong? Unless I'm mistaken, people wouldn't be deeming no harassment has occurred unless there was a problem with the contribution - therefore, the upload should not have been made or should have been removed or something. Unless I'm mistaken, people would not be alleging harassment unless the other editor did something similar to templating the regular as opposed to informally/gently raising the concern, and only if they were unreceptive, begin taking more formal steps (and even then, escalate rather than start at the top extreme). This is probably a completely different school of thought...but that's how it seems to me, based on what little I've read of this. Ncmvocalist (talk) 14:43, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
I see, so you feel the contents list of this page [15] is gentle do you? I can think of some editors it would drive to the nearest canal! It is harrassment on a grand scale!  Giacomo  14:52, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Silly question: suppose there existed a prolific editor who had uploaded some large amount of problematic content. Suppose, for the sake of argument, that he had contributed 5000 photos, 500 of which were poorly sourced, irrelevant to the project, or otherwise unacceptable. What would be the proper method of dealing with the problematic ones? I'm sorry, but I don't see how to differentiate between what you say is harassment and a good-faith effort to cull a user's uploads for ones not acceptable to the project. --B (talk) 14:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
An editor such as Commons:User talk:Duncharris perhaps? This caused utter chaos across the railway project, yet there's none of the rancour or AGF failure we've seen in this case. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:34, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
(ec) I'm not sure if it was my wording or if you misinterpreted my comment Giano, so I'll try to clarify. Some people say no harassment occurs because there was an issue with editor X's upload and therefore editor Y is justified in going through editor X's stuff. On the flipside (where I referred to 'gentle'), I was trying to convey the point that if editor Y had a concern that editor X's stuff remaining uploaded on Wikipedia, they should gently raise that concern informally (letting each concern being dealt with one at a time rather than unreasonably spamming the lot; it might involve plenty of emails for example) and if there is no receptiveness to the concern, then one thing at a time sort of thing...etc. When that doesn't happen, we have a situation where editors feel harassment has occurred because it seems more like editor Y is engaging in an antagonising exercise. Sometimes that is intentional; sometimes that is not. Unfortunately, I still don't know enough about this to come to a conclusion. Ncmvocalist (talk) 15:09, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Giacomo, would you mind explaining how this is constructive? --Smashvilletalk 15:10, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

  • I feel like saying "a plague on all your houses" to RAN, TT and Giano. This is getting ridiculous. RAN's understanding of our copyright rules seems hazy at best and his use of Wikipedia as a webhost is very trying, TT has the bit between his teeth and is going after RAN like a terrier, and now Giano can't resist sticking his oar in and making a personal attack (I've warned him for this). Interaction ban for the lot of them? Fences&Windows 15:12, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    • I don't know that an interaction ban would be very useful - it's the functional equivalent of closing your eyes to make the problem go away. There are three distinct problems to resolve: (1) Richard uploaded some number of unacceptable images, (2) TreasuryTag et al used an uzi rather than a scalpel in going after them, and (3) Giano sees it as an opportunity for a soapbox. --B (talk) 15:20, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Sadly, Giano's attacks against me are continuing [16] [17]╟─TreasuryTagSpeaker─╢ 15:22, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
(Unhelpful nastiness redacted.)  Giacomo  15:24, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Comments like this are neither constructive nor acceptable. --B (talk) 15:26, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
neither are comments like this being so swiftly hidden [18] after more of his soliciting and victimisation.  Giacomo  15:31, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
It's not "swiftly hidden", he replied on his talkpage and just copied it to me. Furthermore, I don't see the problem with it anyway. I do object to your persistent personal attacks, however. ╟─TreasuryTagYou may go away now.─╢ 15:32, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
I've redacted the comment. Poison like that adds nothing. Giano, avoid gross unpleasantness or find yourself blocked. None of us want to have to read boring nastiness. AGK 15:39, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
You lot are a joke in your behaviour you dish it out, but can't take it. As for you TT, I bet you do! always archive (was it archive or remove) that fast do you? Seems to be becoming a habbit of yours today doesn't it archiving and soliciting seem to be amongst your many frequently used talents. Not so funny is it having a taste of your won medicine dished out to you. Well you can relax now because I am disengaging from you and have other things to do for a few hours. You just follow someof others people's advice and try and put right the harm you have done. So long for now.  Giacomo  15:44, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Clear harassment and abuse of a contributor to the encyclopedia building effort. And now we see those standing up to the vile abuse being attacked as well. Shame on Gwen Gale, Newyorkbrad, Treasurytag, AGK, Ncmvocalist and others for their involvement in this sordid affair. If you can't be bothered to investigate and put things right then you should resign your positions of authority. There is no justification for the outrageous and abusive blocks now in Richard Norton's log, despite his being stalked with socks and other efforts to drive him off. Those who have stood by and allowed this to happen or encouraged it by attacking anyone who points out how grotesque it is should be ashamed of themselves. Civility policy my ass, these behaviors are sick and those defending them have no constructive role to here in building a supportive community or an encyclopedia. Freakshownerd (talk) 16:02, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I think we're in danger of going slightly over-the-top here... ╟─TreasuryTagconstabulary─╢ 16:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
(edit conflict) We're not asking for civility, but for people to behave like adults and to not make life unpleasant for other contributors. I actually am looking into this in as much detail as I can. My request for Giano to stop throwing bile around was as an interim comment only, so you can both stop the melodrama. AGK 16:07, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Maybe you should have waited until after you investigated before commenting. You might have avoided being completely off base. As usual Giano is one of the few Wikipedians who stands up for those being made victims here by the abusive, corrupt and dishonest.
Once Richard Norton's block log is cleansed of these outrageous and disgusting admin actions there will be cause to ask for quiet, not before. There also need to be sanctions against the abusive harassers and the admins who aided them so these outrageous behaviors are not repeated. Unless of course you think socking, mass nomming, harassment, and blocking of editors when they object is appropriate? Is that Wikipedia's new Fairness Doctrine, an addendum to the "civility policy" so often invoked by the worst of Wikipedia? Freakshownerd (talk) 16:16, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Was the wording of Giano's comments more excusable before I had reviewed the situation? Hardly. AGK 16:25, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
You or another Admin should have reviewed the situation before I, a non-admin was forced to make a fuss to make people take notice of the wrong being done. anyway, I beleive things are now happening "upstairs" to adress this matter.  Giacomo  16:31, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
My clairvoyance is a little rusty these days, so I'm afraid I was unaware of an incident that I hadn't been following and hadn't been brought to my attention. Shame on me! AGK 16:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Preliminary comments: The interaction between Treasury Tag and Richard Arthur is deeply unsettling. I am thinking that an interaction ban between them both may be in order. More unsettling still is the discussion here between SGGH and TT, which at best treats Richard as a "problem" to be eradicated; and at worst constitutes flagrant collusion against another contributor. We don't expect our contributors to conduct themselves so. I am interested in the opinion of other uninvolved administrators; this situation could do with some neutral eyes. AGK 16:15, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    To be clear, the "problem" being referred to in your link is the (what I considered) intimidating nature of Richard's badmouthing of me around the site (eg.) and around Commons. If you look into the ANI archives, you will see a thread I started on this. I was not aware that reporting suspected breaches of WP:CIV and WP:NPA to an individual admin, rather than to a general noticeboard, was forbidden or frowned upon?
    Just for the record, I would not dream of attempting to "eradicate" (as you put it) another contributor. ╟─TreasuryTagstannary parliament─╢ 16:18, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • I am worried by some of the interactions I've been seen, and I think that the diff you linked above is somewhat overly-aggressive ("OH DEAR GOD HOW CAN WE STOP HIM!?!?!?" I mean, seriously, come on...). However, it also worries me (probably more) that the addition of large amounts of content that goes against policy might end up being overlooked because of the harrassment claims - despite the fact that WP:HARRASS explicitly states that looking through someone's contributions for policy-breaking content is acceptable. It is also typical that Giacomo has jumped on the situation to use it as a soapbox, and is thus further muddying the situation and making everything much worse. I'm uncertain as to whether an interaction ban would do more good than harm; I believe it would simply mean that RAN goes on uploading copyvios and using Wikipedia as webspace with no oversight, which I'm not sure is appropriate. It's a tricky one, that's for sure. Ale_Jrbtalk
    Yes, you're right, the "dear God" sort of comment was overly dramatic, but I was frustrated and feeling a bit intimidated by Richard's badmouthing me all over the project. However, your summary – as I read it, basically, that whacking me in this case may lead Richard to believe that everything he has ever done is vindicated – is a poignant one! ╟─TreasuryTaghemicycle─╢ 16:49, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • You were not the least intimidated and I don't think it was "badmouthing" anyway. Far from being distressed you were salivating and enjoying every moment in a a hypocritical way. That is just so obvious from the dialogue here [19] It was even begining not to fool Gwen Gale!  Giacomo  17:09, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    You were not the least intimidated. I think I was. Far from beinh distressed you were salivating and enjoying verymoment in a ahypocritical way. Don't remember any salivating or hypocrisy, and my mousemat appears remarkably clear of dribble... ╟─TreasuryTagAfrica, Asia and the UN─╢ 17:11, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Why is Norton being singled out?[edit]

New section to separate from the carrying on above. Why exactly is Norton being singled out here? TT alerted me to a previous MFD where several of Norton's user space pages were deleted. Why exactly? Is he really doing such harm here that his user space material needs to be deleted?! Is there some sort of disk space issue that I am not aware of? Hasn't there been a tendency of kindness here to let people who do good work maybe keep some personal stuff around, just to keep all their interests in one place? What happened to that? When did the community turn so sour on long-term good contributors like Richard Norton? Wknight94 talk 16:23, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

TT alerted me to a previous MFD where several of Norton's user space pages were deleted. Why exactly? Presumably because that was the overwhelming community consensus at the discussion. I do think that complaining about the result of a clear-cut deletion debate on ANI marks a new low, if I may respectfully say so. ╟─TreasuryTaghemicycle─╢ 16:25, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • A question on the same note as Wknight: Is there any merit to Richard's suggestion that TT wilfully nominated every one of his uploads for deletion as retribution? AGK 16:32, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    If you mean is it true, then it is not. I spent about three hours painstakingly reviewing each image I nominated, there and on, before including it. As I pointed out in the nomination, it is possible that errors were made in either direction, but there are countless examples of uploaded files which I did not touch. In particular, Richard added hundreds of properly-cited images from the Bain News service, which I filtered out of the list to be nominated using a Microsoft Word regex.
    And it was absolutely not for retribution. I have !voted against hundreds of people in hundreds of AfDs, obviously, and I am not so vindictive as to chase after them all with a {{di-no source}} tag! Check the earlier ANI threads for my more comprehensive statement on the issue. ╟─TreasuryTagFirst Secretary of State─╢ 16:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    What precisely brought on this unexpected review of Richard's uploads? Certainly not a negative interaction with him? AGK 16:37, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    His upload of File:Mexico-Iceland 2008.png had been discussed as a breach of the NFCC in the deletion discussion of the page it was used on. I nominated it for FfD (where it was deleted), and it seemed so obviously a copyvio that I looked into his other images, as is the done thing with users suspected of having a problem. I then discovered the vast treasure-trove of improperly-tagged and web-hosted files and pages, and went from there.
    I surely would not be expected to leave a problem like that simply because I !voted the opposite way to him in an arbitrary AfD debate! ╟─TreasuryTagconstabulary─╢ 16:42, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    No, I tell a lie, it was this AfD comment which alerted me to the image-copyright issues. Apologies. ╟─TreasuryTagUK EYES ONLY─╢ 16:47, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    That's plausible, I guess. Irrespective of what becomes of this thread, I hope you will refrain in future from interacting with Richard; this discussion, I think, proves better than anything else could that you and he don't mesh well :). AGK 16:54, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    Wknight, just because we don't have diskspace issues doesn't mean that we can ignore WP:NOT. I'd also suggest that the outcome of said MFD implies that most of the community doesn't really share your views that it's 'just fine'. Ale_Jrbtalk 16:45, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    (edit conflict)*2 Improperly sourced and tagged files, sure. But what with all the user space nominations? That's just smacks of raw spite. And triggered by what? Has Norton somehow offended you? Sure, once you bring it up at the tucked-away little corner of WP:MFD, the people there see your lead and jump on. But I'd like a wider audience here to tell me what the hell Norton did to trigger this multi-project attack against his work. Wknight94 talk 16:48, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    As Ale jrb (talk · contribs) observes, the community consensus was to delete the pages as a violation of WP:NOTWEBHOST. I nominated them as a violation of WP:NOTWEBHOST. You're an admin; when you delete articles, did the creators do anything to offend you? Was it raw spite? No. It is, I'm sure, because those pages are contrary to Wikipedia policy. And the consensus was that Richard's pages were too. ╟─TreasuryTagYou may go away now.─╢ 16:55, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    I second this question. I'm struggling to see why you're interested in this user, other than that much of his work seems to you to be problematic. If an editor genuinely was concerned about the work of another, I'd expect to see some sort of talk page message saying "your work worries me – specifically, files X, Y, and Z. Could we talk about it?". Instead, I am told that you two fell out over something (or did I imagine that? has there been any negative interaction prior to the deletion of some of his work); and I then see that you went, unannounced, on this spree. AGK 16:53, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    I confirm that I had never met, interacted with or heard of Richard prior to seeing his image uploading discussed in the AfD I linked to above. ╟─TreasuryTagYou may go away now.─╢ 16:55, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    As for not discussing it first, a quick search showed that Richard's copyright problems had been ongoing for years, and lead me to suspect that negotiation would be fruitless. I may have been wrong about this, but it was a decision taken in good faith. ╟─TreasuryTagmost serene─╢ 16:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    WP:NOT can be, and routinely is ignored. When someone does a lot of good work on the project but also engages in non-WP stuff - like family research or creating endless userboxes stating which tween singer they like, or making funny pictures and colors appear on their talk page - it is ignored. Why is that not the case for Richard Norton? Wknight94 talk 17:02, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    WP:NOT can be, and routinely is ignored. Sure. But it wasn't in this case. Is this sub-thread just to complain that a bunch of editors, mainly admins, !voted in an MfD in a way which you disagree with? ╟─TreasuryTagAfrica, Asia and the UN─╢ 17:04, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    I'm confused here. Wknight94, are you actually arguing that anyone who is a regular editor should be permitted to store unlimited amounts of stuff unrelated to actual articles? There's an obvious difference between user page "about the editor" type content or community content (like photos from meetups) vs family photo albums. I think there are four separate classes of content from Richard that are all getting lumped in here together - (1) images being used under a very questionable claim of fair use - from my past discussions with Richard I know that he disagrees with some of our fair use rules, (2) useful images from family photo albums where the copyright status needs to be clarified - did Richard inherit the copyright or is he just scanning the photo but someone else has the copyright, (3) not very useful family photo album pictures that are being more or less pigeonholed into a commons gallery to make them appear encyclopedic (ie, showing an example of apparel from the 1920's), or (4) userspace pages depicting galleries of some of the above. Surely we can all agree that #1 needs to go away, and #2 needs to be clarified. #3 should probably go away or at least be severely curtailed. #4 I couldn't care less about. --B (talk) 17:18, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    "Unlimited" is not what I said. That MFD had less than 30 pages. Are we talking about thousands of others? I don't think so. Someone who has put several years of work into this encyclopedia should be allowed to keep a certain amount of personal stuff around if it isn't bothering anyone. Norton's stuff was not bothering anyone to my knowledge. Others, like Linas (talk · contribs), have been allowed to keep personal pages with seething attacks against other editors - surely Norton can keep some completely benign pages here which, at worst, are somewhat interesting to a genealogy buff like myself. Wknight94 talk 17:33, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

TreasuryTag and Richard: can we bring this to a conclusion, because I'm getting sleepy?[edit]

I respect that I may not have handled this in the best way, while maintaining that I acted entirely in good faith and, for the most part, for the best. I think that AGK (talk · contribs) sums up the situation in response to my explanation of how I came across Richard:

That's plausible, I guess. Irrespective of what becomes of this thread, I hope you will refrain in future from interacting with Richard; this discussion, I think, proves better than anything else could that you and he don't mesh well :)

I certainly intend not to engage personally with Richard outside of formal dispute resolution, because I just can't take the stress, to be honest.

Please can we close this ANI thread, because I fear it is accomplishing nothing? I will voluntarily recuse myself from interacting with Richard, as outlined above, and all the personal attacks and nastiness I have suffered, and others have had to read, will be able to stop? Please? ╟─TreasuryTagassemblyman─╢ 17:15, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

If you choose to look into a contributor's work and find problems, please approach them civilly and respectfully in the future. This is a collaborative enterprise and treating people with respect and dignity is important. There's nothing wrong with letting someone know "hey, I'm concerned that some article/ images/ content you've added may not be appropriate because XYZ". When you're already in dispute with them and start doing mass noms (and are joined in the effort by various socks) it becomes extremely abusive. The admins who piles on here with abusive blocks are also to blame for the escalation of this situation and should lead the charge for bogus blocks to be expunged so their damaging actions can be addressed properly. Freakshownerd (talk) 17:20, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
You need to do a lot more than recuse yourself. You are not getting out of this that easily. Your backtracking now exposed is too late.  Giacomo  17:53, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
What, in your opinion, do I need to do? ╟─TreasuryTagFirst Secretary of State─╢ 17:54, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Stop being so goddamned obnoxious. --MZMcBride (talk) 17:56, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
I tend to expect better, clearer, more helpful and more sensible contributions from, you, MZMcBride... ╟─TreasuryTagprorogation─╢ 17:58, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
I don't know about the other descriptors, but the statement was pretty clear :) - Wikidemon (talk) 18:15, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
I have a simple solution for de-obnoxiousification - lose the signature. Symbols, colors, and a random word or phrase is a bit much. --B (talk) 18:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
A bit much, perhaps. Goddamned obnoxious? A little over-the-top... ╟─TreasuryTagvoice vote─╢ 18:19, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
While I don't about the theology of the claim that God has damned your signature, it is pretty obnoxious. ;) --B (talk) 18:27, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Putting aside the wise advice from Mr McBride above. A sincere and well composed appology to both Norton and the community would be a good start and some form of acceptance of the harrassing and distress caused. Norton has been put through hell because of you - now you want to walk away because the goings not quite the way you wanted it. There is only one way to treat bullies - be grateful you are not receiving it.  Giacomo  18:00, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    As I said above, I concede that I may not have handled this in the best way, but maintain that I acted entirely in good faith and, for the most part, for the best. I still unreservedly insist that I carried out no harassment, no bullying, so any apology would be inappropriate and insincere. ╟─TreasuryTagChancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster─╢ 18:02, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • It is not harassment or a violation of policy to point out policy or copyright violations by other users. Stifle (talk) 18:03, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Aha the cavalry has arrived. Stifle, there you are. Not customary for you to be the Lady-in-WaitingValet de chambre.  Giacomo  18:09, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    • Giano, you don't like me, and I have no like or dislike for you, but I will treat you civilly and hope that you will continue to treat me likewise. I am not, however, female, and please therefore don't refer to me as such :) Stifle (talk) 18:12, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    • What purpose does this serve other than to inflame? This whole thread has not served to resolve anything, but only to give you a forum. Whether TreasuryTag or Richard have behaved badly isn't going to be resolved here - not like this. --B (talk) 18:14, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
No way! You lot would love it shut and hidden. let people see what has been going on here.  Giacomo  18:18, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Giano, thank you for amending the reference to "lady in waiting". May I ask what you wished to accomplish by making this ANI listing? Stifle (talk) 18:22, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Who is "you lot"? You think that anyone who disagrees with you is a part of a conspiracy. ANI is a forum for seeking redress to a particular incident, not a forum for airing your general disagreement with ... whatever it is that you generally disagree with. Nobody is going to block TreasuryTag over this. Nobody is going to immunize Richard from having his contributions subject to deletion. What is it that is going to be achieved here? --B (talk) 18:24, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • OK. even his user page image "me in Sweden two years ago" was nominated for deletion. Why was that? Any reasoning behind that little gem? Or are all user page images to be nomonated for deletion? C'mon speak up - let's hear you. Here is a friend of mine (typical of a 1000 pages) File:Jeanne Griffin 1974 makeup style.jpg doesn't look like she took that one herself - does it? Off you go then nominate it for deletion - C'mon what's keeping you? Giacomo  18:27, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    I think nominating that particular userpage one was excessive. But it doesn't make the others all right now, does it? Stifle (talk) 18:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Oh do you indeed! A bit late in the day to say so.  Giacomo  18:43, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict) @Stifle, but it's difficult to tell which have a real basis - like copyright - and which are just nominations of harmless personal photos for no apparent reason than extreme rigid adherence to a rule which is applied far too selectively. Wknight94 talk 18:45, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    I think you're right and it's unfortunate that everything has just been kinda lumped in together. Some (a lot? most? substantially all?) of Richard's uploads are from, IIRC from discussions from a long time ago, photo albums from his family members that he inherited when they died. In those cases, the description page really needs to spell it out. Many of his description pages say something like "the Bob Smith archive" or "Bob Smith collection". If he spelled out, "photo by Bob Smith. Upon his death, his family photos were inherited by Richard," then many of the copyright problems go away. There's still the issue of useless photos (some of the ones on Commons were things like signatures of non-notable people - not useful at all) and there are some questionable fair use claims, but simply being more descriptive on the image pages would answer a lot of questions. --B (talk) 19:02, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    @Giano & Wknight94: It was technically correct (the image did have no source) but could have been handled better.
    @Giano: Can you now please reply to B and I as to what you hoped to accomplish by opening this listing? Stifle (talk) 18:47, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Yes, we are exposing just what has been going on, and the inages nominated for deletion and the complete trolling and persecution that Norton has endured following his disagreement with your mate TT (they were on opposite sides in an AFD debate on bilateral relations - the next day 50 of his images were nominated) You seem to have a had a lot to say on the votes for deletion, yet seem strangely quiet here.  Giacomo  18:48, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    But that was exactly what was covered in the previous ANI thread... ╟─TreasuryTagconstabulary─╢ 19:01, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    • OK, and what outcome did you expect would come from this besides drama? Stifle (talk) 18:59, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Another page on your watchlist TT. Anyway in answer to your question, We are re-visiting the facts, something a patholagist often successfully does years after death, in this case we are lucky, the body is still warm. Yes, I too suspect it will end unhappily for you TT.  Giacomo  19:06, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
No, your contributions are on my watchlist. And if I am to gather from your hint that you have "proof" I coerced Edison into making those AfD noms, then either someone is severely misleading you, or you are severely misleading the community. ╟─TreasuryTagco-prince─╢ 19:10, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Giacomo, that doesn't even make sense. While I'm aware the internets = serious business, I think you're overvaluing the importance of this situation. The "victim" of the "harassment" has (quite wisely, IMO) not even commented here, so I'm still not sure what you want to achieve other than to stir up poo. Just let it go. What is going to come out of "revisiting the facts"? --B (talk) 19:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Incidently Giano, as it's now been going for a while, what administrative action are you looking for out of this thread? That's a serious question, in case it seemed sarcastic or something - just getting a feel for it. Ale_Jrbtalk 19:11, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Tch Tch tch getting impatiant is always a bad trait. We shall just wait and see. You all seem very concerned for this to leave the spotlight, but sadly I have only just turned the spotlight on. One thing, all even those who hate me to death will agree, is that I never give up without a result. There has been some monkey business here and it's going tp be exposed fully. Incidentally, why was his user page image nominated, not to mention domain images, government images and even an image that he only adjusted the colour of. You are in it up to your neck TT. I want some answers.  Giacomo  19:24, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
I can't really recall any of your other 'exposes' resulting in anything much at all, except of course affirmation of your unique postion on Wikipedia as the only editor who can say what they like about others with apparent impunity. MickMacNee (talk) 19:41, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
ANI is not dispute resolution, it's for admin actions. May I respectfully suggest that if you are not willing to specify an admin action you would like taken and have a conduct issue with TT, you take it up through the usual dispute resolution channels? Stifle (talk) 19:27, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
well you are the admin stifle, how do you think such a harrassing bully should be treated, or do you feel you are too involved to deal with such a disreputable person as TT?.  Giacomo  19:29, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
The only person harassing anyone here has been you. If you don't have some actual desired outcome, then this thread just needs to be closed so we can quit wasting everyone's time. And by we I mean you. Has TreasuryTag behaved poorly? Probably, but that doesn't give you a reason to have a general gripe session about him. And with all due respect to Stifle, if a gripe session is all you want, dispute resolution is not an appropriate channel either. --B (talk) 19:33, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Thank-you, finally, someone has voiced a thought which had been troubling me for some time. The only person harassing anyone here has been [Giano]. ╟─TreasuryTagCANUKUS─╢ 20:05, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Oh do stop re-posting people's quotes in green. You really are making yourself even more totally ridiculous.  Giacomo  20:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
I think that the conduct issues arising from this thread, all of them, should be channelled to dispute resolution. Stifle (talk) 19:46, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Well it has been rather like drawing teeth without an anasthetic, but there does now seem to be a general acceptance that TT has behave badly and has something to answer for as indeed he does, so if you, his friends and supporter, wish to close the thread, who am I to stop you?  Giacomo  19:52, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    • The us vs them mentality gets really old. All of us are looking at the issue and calling it like we see it - we're not a pro-TreasuryTag faction and we don't have "Friends of TreasuryTag" luncheons. You are refusing to say what it is you want - you're just stirring stuff up. It doesn't take a "supporter" of anyone to see that's not helpful. --B (talk) 20:03, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
I think you may close the thread, we have seen enough of your "calls."  Giacomo  20:33, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Neither do we need it collapsing or having a negative closing statement. This has been a very useful and informative thread; noneed to hide it.  Giacomo  20:41, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Oversight needed at Escort Ireland[edit]

Resolved: Revisions deleted. - Yworo (talk) 16:01, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

This edit on the talk page and these edits to the article. IP looks to have been dynamic and reinserted under another address here. I think that's all but a second set of eyes to review the edit history might be wise. Yworo (talk) 15:26, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

I have deleted the revisions in question. If you would like to make a request for them to be oversighted (which will remove them even from admin view), please use WP:RFO. --B (talk) 15:36, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Why spend the time deleting revisions on an article that so clearly fails WP:NOTABILITY? Delicious carbuncle (talk) 15:54, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Because the articles has not been deleted yet. Yworo (talk) 15:56, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

User:Alpha Quadrant and WP:NFCC policy[edit]

Resolved: User issued final warning by B (talk · contribs) that (1) further violations of the image policies will result in immediate blocks without further warning and (2) further abuses of either rollback or twinkle will result in those privileges being removed without further warning Salvio ( Let's talk 'bout it!) 22:31, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

In mid-May of this year, this user began placing non-free images in inappropriate places violating WP:NFCC policy. A series of events has unfolded:

  1. 11 May 2010 03:09 - Placed File:VoyagerStarship.jpg on a userbox he created at User:Alpha Quadrant/Userboxes/Star Trek Voyager. (see revision)
  2. 11 May 2010 20:23 - I removed the WP:NFCC violating image from the userbox, noting the violation [20].
  3. 11 May 2010 20:38 - He re-instates the violating image to the userbox, violating WP:NFCC. [21]
  4. 12 May 2010 00:26 - I re-remove the image [22]
  5. 12 May 2010 00:26 - I advise him on his talk page that the use of this image on his userbox violates WP:NFCC. [23].
  6. 14 May 2010 01:00 - He places File:VoyagerStarship.jpg on User talk:Alpha Quadrant/Editnotice, violating WP:NFCC. (see revision).
  7. 14 May 2010 03:14 - He places a free content image he created on User:Alpha Quadrant/Userboxes/Star Trek Voyager. [24]
  8. 14 May 2010 12:49 - I left a message on his talk page telling him "Nicely done" for the change to free content on his userbox, and also inform him that I have replaced the violating image on his edit notice with this image he has created. [25]
  9. 14 May 2010 14:41 - He restores File:VoyagerStarship.jpg to User talk:Alpha Quadrant/Editnotice, saying in the edit summary that if I don't like it to tell him, violating WP:NFCC. [26]
  10. 14 May 2010 15:19 - I once again remove the violating image from the edit notice page and ask him to see his talk page. [27]
  11. 14 May 2010 15:19 - I advise him on his talk page that the image violates WP:NFCC, that I am re-removing it, and please do not re-add it as it is a direct violation of our policy. [28]
  12. 14 May 2010 16:17 - He leaves a fairly nasty note on my talk page claiming the images are both "fair use" and "public domain" (apparently because they can be found all over the Internet). [29]
  13. 14 May 2010 16:25 - I explain to him in considerable detail how his stance is in error, and how such images are managed on Wikipedia. I include mention of DASHBot doing removals of this type as well. [30]
  14. 14 May 2010 16:57 - He retracts his most recent message on my talk page, and gives me a cookie. [31]
  15. 29 May 2010 21:10 - He places File:USS Defiant leaving DS9 damaged.jpg on Portal:Star Trek/Selected picture/4, using Twinkle to revert back to a much earlier version that had WP:NFCC violating content on it, violating WP:NFCC. [32]
  16. 29 May 2010 21:27 - He places File:St08-uss enterprise e.png on Portal:Star Trek/Selected picture/5, violating WP:NFCC. [33]
  17. 30 May 2010 20:17 - He places File:WorfTNG.jpg on Portal:Star Trek/Selected character/1, violating WP:NFCC. [34]
  18. 30 May 2010 20:23 - He places File:Ro Laren.jpg on Portal:Star Trek/Selected picture/1, violating WP:NFCC. [35].
  19. 30 May 2010 16:56 - I remove File:Ro Laren.jpg from Portal:Star Trek/Selected picture/1. [36]
  20. 30 May 2010 21:23 - He places File:Star Trek - Photon torpedoes.jpg on User:Alpha Quadrant/Editnotice (see revision) and the same file on Portal:Star Trek/Selected picture/3 (see revision), violating WP:NFCC.
  21. 31 May 2010 03:17 - I remove ([37][38])the violations from User:Alpha Quadrant/Editnotice and Portal:Star Trek/Selected picture/3
  22. 31 May 2010 03:24 - I leave a strongly worded message on his talk page regarding the two new violations, indicating this is a final warning. [39]
  23. 31 May 2010 03:28 - He restores File:Star_Trek_-_Photon_torpedoes.jpg to Portal:Star Trek/Selected picture/3 claiming in the edit summary "files are permitted in portal space. portal space features the best articles in that category. Many other projects use pictures in their portals", violating WP:NFCC. [40]
  24. 31 May 2010 04:02 - He reverts my warning from his talk page, indicating he has read it (he's free to remove content from his talk page if he likes; the point here is to show he has read the warning). [41]
  25. 31 May 2010 05:01 - DASHBot removes File:USS Defiant leaving DS9 damaged.jpg from Portal:Star Trek/Selected picture/4. [42]
  26. 31 May 2010 05:04 - DASHBot removes File:St08-uss enterprise e.png from Portal:Star Trek/Selected picture/5. [43]
  27. 31 May 2010 05:04 - DASHBot removes File:Star_Trek_-_Photon_torpedoes.jpg to Portal:Star Trek/Selected picture/3 [44].
  28. 31 May 2010 16:54 - I respond on his talk page to his claim in the edit summary noted in #23 above, making it clear that non-free content is not permissible on portal pages [45].
  29. 31 May 2010 16:55 - I remove File:WorfTNG.jpg from Portal:Star Trek/Selected character/1. [46]
  30. 31 May 2010 17:20 - He uses Twinkle to remove my latest message to him, calling it vandalism. [47]
  31. 31 May 2010 17:37 - He restores File:St08-uss enterprise e.png to Portal:Star Trek/Selected picture/5, violating WP:NFCC. [48]
  32. 31 May 2010 17:43 - He restores File:USS Defiant leaving DS9 damaged.jpg to Portal:Star Trek/Selected picture/4, violating WP:NFCC.

WP:NFCC policy has been explained to this editor several times. He's been shown that it also applies to Portal space. Regardless of this, he continues to routinely violate WP:NFCC policy. Further, my warnings to him are now being reverted as vandalism, and he is undoing DASHBot's edits to pages where he wants to place non-free content. I don't think this editor understands the difference between non-free and free content, but my attempts to educate him on the matter have failed, and he insists on violating our policies and ignoring warnings. Given that multiple warnings were given, and a final warning was given, and even a warning after that, I think a temporary block is appropriate at this point, along with a very strongly worded message regarding his behavior. I will notify him of this thread on his talk page. Thank you, --Hammersoft (talk) 19:46, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Well, apparently he hasn't gotten the message - just today he restored a non-free image to portal space [49] --B (talk) 20:08, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Yep, and you can see from the diff that he's apparently trying to get DASHBot not to touch it, by placing {{nobots}} on it. --Hammersoft (talk) 20:11, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • As much as I hate to say it, I think a block of some length is in order. This has to stop, and if it takes a block to get his attention, then as much as I absolutely detest blocking genuine contributors, it's about the last remedy available. Courcelles (talk) 20:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
I am unimpressed by the use of twinkle vandalism rollback to revert Hammersoft's warning about using non-free images outside of article space. I don't know if a block is needed right now, but perhaps a stern warning that his conduct is unacceptable and (1) further violations of the image policies will result in immediate blocks without further warning and (2) further abuses of either rollback or twinkle will result in those privileges being removed without further warning. If he commits either abuse again, then we've had the minor inconvenience of having to revert one more thing. But if he abides by the rules, then we have kept an editor. --B (talk) 20:19, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Thanks for your attention, B. Your solution is fine with me, but the warning will go unheeded from me. Would you please place such a warning on his talk page? --Hammersoft (talk) 20:22, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
    • Done. --B (talk) 20:33, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Angie Y. - community ban time?[edit]

For at least the past 3 years, people have been telling Angie Y. (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) not to add uncited personal opinion to articles. I ran across her recently when her editing on Willy Wonka-related articles was brought to ANI. Just about every time I trimmed something of hers out of an article, she would restore it with no discussion, even in the edit summary. Today she reminded us that her editing style isn't restricted to fiction: she edited the Priceline article, adding the text "One of Shatner's early commercials for the company had him sitting in a spaceship's captain's chair, in loving tribute to his famous Star Trek role." The existence of the commercial is uncited. Its position as "early" is uncited "Loving tribute" is opinion. "Famous" is WP:PEACOCKish.

As she has been told that this sort of thing is not acceptable for so long by so many people, I am forced to conclude that she is unwilling or unable to work within our community norms, and suggest that she be community-banned for at least a year.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 15:38, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I agree this is a problem... but I see a lack of blocks to tell her that this is a problem. I see only one from a couple years ago.. Surely a series of escalating blocks should be attempted before an outright ban, right? Friday (talk) 15:42, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
Problem is, she tends to skirt right under the edge of blockability for any one incident. It's the long-term pattern I'm looking at here, and that's harder for a single admin to act on without this kind of discussion. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 15:59, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
She does seem to have a lot of warnings over the past few years telling her not to insert her POV into articles. Not sure what to do about it. Possibly assign her a mentor? Basket of Puppies 16:42, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
Looks like mentoring was tried, pursuant to her second RFC, but didn't go anywhere. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:48, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
Oppose editor is no doubt a pain but lack of long block log suggests lesser sanctions are not exhausted. Or you could have Willy feed her a candy bar that turns her into a huge helium balloon and the Oompa Loompas can sing as she floats away. Ooompa Loompa loopa de do ...--Wehwalt (talk) 15:46, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
Agree it is a seriously issue that needs to be dealt with. Also wondering at the lack of previous blocks beyond the one, when her user page also shows a lot off issues with incivility, ignoring or harassing other editors when they try to correct her, constant lack of edit summaries and just reverting when people undo her OR/opinions. Also curious as to whether there has been any recurrence of the meat puppet issues which caused her one block. Her response to your warning about the OR of "Ah yeah"[50] however also strongly shows that you are correct in that she seemingly doesn't care. Looking at her contribs, she pretty much ignores her own talk pages and rarely tries discussing anything with others on other user talks[51], while her contribs to article talks seems mostly to ask random questions[52]. I also worry how much truth there is in her edits to fictional topics, when she is fond of injecting her own opinion into topics, and if any of her edits are being checked in those areas? Not an admin, so I don't know the rules on blocking, but I do think some kind of block and an editing restriction, at the minimum, would be a good start. Any violations to the restriction gets escalating blocks, until she exhausts the usual set, then go for a ban. -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 16:19, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment Forgot to mention her RFCs above.
  • Granted, it's been a while since the last one... --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 16:52, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Block for a while. No evidence she works around them, so going for a ban isn't necessary. But (as one who has warned and reverted her many times) she's royally painful to pin down. Pushes right to the edge of a block, then backs off either by moving away from the target-page of the moment, or by saying she will change her ways. Again and again. With some good edits too IIRC. Taken together, the Park Service needs to give this forest a block even if each ranger doesn't think any one tree is irredeemable. Enough community time-wasting. DMacks (talk) 16:57, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Block for at least a week. This person seems adept at gaming the system here, and as I see it the record cited shows that. Too early for a ban, but count me in with those wanting accountability. User should be encouraged to discuss this issue here at ANI. Jusdafax 17:07, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Endorse blocking for around a week or two perhaps. With increasing durations for further problems. This may very well end up a ban, but I'd rather see us get there in a few steps than just one. Friday (talk) 17:48, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Issue stern final warning, then block I feel that she needs to be put on last notice, and that any further infractions will result in an immediate block. The stern final warning will be indefinite for duration- meaning that in 6 months if she makes an infraction she will still be blocked. No one is irredeemable but some need special circumstances due to the length of disruption. Basket of Puppies 17:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

I'm only trying to help in any way I can. Angie Y. (talk) 19:50, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

The problem is, Angie, is that the ways you try to help tend to make more work for everyone else. Even though many people have told you to add references to your edits, and not to put your personal opinions into articles, you keep doing it.--SarekOfVulcan (talk) 20:12, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Block now clear lack of competence, three years is generally enough time to determine if someone is capable of or willing to learn. Time sink, net detriment to the project on a review of the edits. Make it indefinite. If they cogently explain what they've been doing wrong and promise to never do it again, maybe unblock.Bali ultimate (talk) 20:39, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
  • I have imposed an indefinite block; there isn't really an established community block process here, but reviewing many edits going back several years, plus her talk page history, convinces me that the concerns raised here are valid. I believe that she is editing in good faith, but the net result of editing in good faith but with poor understanding of project goals and policies, the difference between encyclopedic factual content and personal opinion, is disruptive. If she comes to understand the policies and issues and seems likely to comply going forwards, any administrator can unblock her without consulting me, though given the community input above I think that bringing it back to ANI for discussion would be wise (at least a notification afterwards). Georgewilliamherbert (talk) 21:07, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment —I've encountered Angie in the past (circa 2+ years ago, I think) and tried to gently nudge her in the right direction. I've not seen the recent issues other people have concerns over. If there is further discussion of this, I'll root through history and the more recent events, and offer an opinion. Cheers, Jack Merridew 21:24, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
  • ... and I have declined her first unblock request with a couple of questions. (talk→ BWilkins ←track) 23:37, 26 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Block for only a week; an indefinite block is not necessary, in my opinion. MC10 (TCGBL) 01:51, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Block - indef. I was the admin who introduced her last AN/I (a few months ago). I have seen zero improvement since then, and her long history of non-improvement speaks for itself. I recommend she take up blogging instead where the rules are more lax. Rklawton (talk) 02:51, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Endorse indef block that has already been imposed. I don't see the sense in putting a timer on the block if there's nothing to guarantee that it won't just continue once the block expires. It's up to her on how long it takes her to understand, and this way, sanctions will only be in place for as long as necessary. Of course, without socking, I don't think an outright ban is needed. Ncmvocalist (talk) 03:24, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Amend to a couple of weeks to give her time to understand that no, we really mean it about the personal opinions. Stifle (talk) 09:01, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Endorse indef. The sanction can be lifted as soon as there is a reasonable undertaking to amend their approach to contributing; 2 hours, 2 days, 2 weeks... whatever. LessHeard vanU (talk) 10:15, 27 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Based on her interaction with the folks who have reviewed her request for an unblock, that will be a long time coming. She seems incapable of understanding what the problem is. (And as long as this is simply an indef block -- not a community ban -- I endorse this as an adequate response. A community ban in this case would be the equivalent of breaking a butterfly on a wheel.) -- llywrch (talk) 05:34, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Endorse 1 week block - There needs to be some indication that this issue is taken seriously, but it's too early for an indef. Shadowjams (talk) 06:01, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

Post-indef block comments[edit]

As there's been an indefinite block, some of the above comments are outdated. Further comments below. Shadowjams (talk) 06:34, 29 May 2010 (UTC)

  • I don't think an indefinite block is appropriate in this case. As discussed above, a progressive blocking structure would be more fair. This has clearly gotten Angie Y's attention. I would advocate a short-term block, followed by reconciliation, attempts at mentoring (I see above that's not worked before), and scrutiny. By indefinitely blocking we're just inviting a new username and alienation. Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think it has to come to this quite yet. Shadowjams (talk) 06:34, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Indefinite is not forever, the user does not seem to understand how to fix the problem (and seems to be suggesting that she has some issue personally that might make it impossible and that we should "understand") so indef is correct. I have left a suggestion that she try proposing some sourced NPOV changes on her talk page, to see if she can satisfy people that she can do it. Guy (Help!) 11:18, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
  • I share Shadowjams's concern, in as much as I feel that there should be a clear route back for Angie Y. That said, Guy has advised Angie Y. that there is a way back, so I'm happy with the indef block standing for now (i.e. until Angie Y. indicates that she's prepared to work constructively to end her block). TFOWRpropaganda 11:25, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
  • Each case is distinct; using an indef block in all cases will obviously not be appropriate or ideal (and this should not be interpreted as establishing a precedent as such). In this particular case, my opinion has not changed - there is a clear way back and putting a timer on the block would not otherwise be helpful or sensible. Ncmvocalist (talk) 13:00, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
  • I dislike indef blocks, in the manner that it's a kind of "closed door" to the blocked editor. Although technically they can appeal the block, sooner or later, almost always they either 1) have their unblock request denied, or 2) they never edit again, which would mean that we may lose a possibly productive user in the future. A short term block of a few weeks seems like the best solution, as it isn't an indefinite block, and it gives the editor (who in this case is Angie Y) some time to think about her actions. MC10 (TCGBL) 19:53, 29 May 2010 (UTC)
  • As someone who also has an autism-spectrum disorder (mine is PDD-NOS), let me just point out that it's very hard for many people on the spectrum to read between the lines. What may seem like a terminal case of IDIDNTHEARTHAT isn't necessarily so. I left a short note of encouragement, because she doesn't seem too receptive to criticism at this point (not really all that surprising). I think JzG's suggestion is a good idea, and hopefully she'll go through with it. The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk) 07:30, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
  • I don't want to sound too harsh, but I do think that WP:NOTTHERAPY applies here. In short, she may have problems that may make it difficult for her to follow our policies, but that is no excuse for disruption. RadManCF open frequency 21:12, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
I'd tend to agree with you, but my experience with people on the spectrum (I'm living proof of this) is that if you do give them enough chances, they'll catch on. I think a block may have been in order, but indefinite can be very intimidating. If this was made, say, a week or two weeks, that'd give her a chance to put everything in perspective and go from there. She does seem to realize now that there's a problem. Maybe if she had someone to bounce ideas off of if/when she gets unblocked- not a mentor, exactly, but just someone to help on the side. Hey, we gave someone else another second chance, and that seems to be working out all right. The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk) 21:21, 30 May 2010 (UTC)
I think that we have been remarkably patient with this user already, as her pattern of disruption goes back to 2006. I have a hard time believing that she's only just now realized that there's a problem, judging by the messages on her talk page. If she actually has just realized this, Wikipedia:COMPETENCE should be considered. It's also important to remember that an indefinite block is not necessarily permanent. That said, I wouldn't object to her being unblocked on the condition that she found a mentor. RadManCF open frequency 16:33, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Some do catch on, but others... well, I won't invoke the name, but at least one refuses to catch on, and his mother hasn't been able to deter him at all. Suffice to say, we have to treat each one individually, and she's not quite getting it. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 17:07, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I'm well aware of who you refer to above, but the issue there would seem to be much more severe- there are varying degrees. Anyways, we let the aforementioned user back after pulling some truly egregious stuff (I went back and looked) that was worse than what's going on here. This at least can be fixed fairly quickly. I also acknowledge that it goes back to 2006, but to jump to DefCon 5 1 whoops all of a sudden seems a bit... harsh. Perhaps this is the "final warning" she needed. Hey, reblocking is never too difficult. The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk) 19:55, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
With regards to the length of time this has gone on for, I would argue that it wasn't properly dealt with then, and so implementing a more harsh sanction may be justified.RadManCF open frequency 21:46, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I see the logic in your statement, now that I look at it again. I still hope she does get unblocked- she works in articles I wouldn't touch with a 39 1/2 foot pole- but I see where you're coming from. JzG/Guy gave her a way out, and I guess all we can do is hope she takes it. The Blade of the Northern Lights (talk) 01:12, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Although I endorse this block, I think it should be shortened to a fortnight. After all, it only takes a few clicks to block her again, should she choose not to learn from this (and if, on the contrary, she were to learn, we would gain a useful contributor). Salvio ( Let's talk 'bout it!) 17:02, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Except that it's the same, slow pattern we've been seeing for three years. I don't think a fortnight will make a difference but, if it does, she'll be able to tell us how & why she's changed and we can unblock. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 17:07, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I undestand that blocks are necessary to prevent disruptive behaviour; however, personally, I don't like them and would always try to be optimistic (or naive, if you prefer). That's why I'd give her a second chance. I don't think it's all that risky, given how fast she can be reblocked, should the need arise. Salvio ( Let's talk 'bout it!) 17:15, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
She has a way out, it's been offered pretty much from the outset. Guy (Help!) 21:16, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I recently left a message on her talk page to this effect, but if appropriate, perhaps a succinct phrasing of the "way out" would be good either here or on the talk page. Just so there's a clear roadmap. Shadowjams (talk) 06:08, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
That has already been done: User_talk:Angie_Y.#Suggestion Harry the Dog WOOF 09:30, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Endorse indef. I agree it's a shame to jump straight to the indef rather than incremental blocks but there is a very clear way for her to come back. If she starts posting some editing suggestions (per Guy's suggestion on her talk page) which show that she now understands the problems with her adding her opinions and OR to articles, we can look at unblocking, but I don't think fixing a timer to that process is going to be helpful and it will likely undermine it. I think it's better to leave the block as an indef and to review again in due course when we get some indication that she understands - whether that be two days, two weeks, two months or whatever is entirely in her court. Sarah 06:15, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Endorse indef Angie has been offered many ways out over the years. People have been extremely patient with her, and offers of help have been numerous, and generally rebuffed. As others say, indef does not mean forever. It is not banning, which has been advocated. People who cannot edit in conformity with the community guidelines are blocked. It's as simple as that. I don't believe that progressive blocks are needed in this case. There have been several times when a short block might have been imposed but Angie has evaded it by promising to change her behaviour. Her behaviour has not changed, and therefore I regard that as if a block had been imposed. It would have been but for assurances that were not subsequently met. Sadly, I don't think we can accept her assurances (repeated in the wake of this block) any more, and so an indef is required. If she can show that she really can conform to the community guidelines, she should be welcomed back. Harry the Dog WOOF 09:25, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Endorse indef - her post-block edits clearly indicate she still doesn't get it. Rklawton (talk) 01:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Comment' There are plenty of IPs out there. I agree that a block was appropriate, but bans (indef blocks are basically bans) only lead the user to go and make socks and other IPs and blocking those wastes everybody's time and energy and then blocks potential good users from being able to use Wikipedia. Doc Quintana (talk) 13:40, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

(the) Ohio State University[edit]

Resolved: This is a content discussion and belongs on Talk:Ohio State University, not here.

User: has made multiple reverts of content related to Ohio State University by placing the word "the" in front of "Ohio State University" -- normally, something that could be handled through discussions. To make matters worse, the user may actually be technically right in these reverts even though it appears that consensus may not be supporting such moves.

I first asked the user and other interested parties to participate in a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject College football#More "THE" OSU B.S. (which isn't exactly a "neutral point of view" name but the discussion was already started) about the topic. To my knowledge, the user has not approached the discussion.

The user has revereted changes for at least two users, calling them "vandalism" -- one at the article Edwin Sweetland by User:Jweiss11 and another at Paul Bixler by myself.

The user has made mutliple changes in multiple articles around this topic, and it looks like we might need an outside admin to come and take a look to provide some guidance. What's the best approach to take from here?--Paul McDonald (talk) 18:50, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I believe that the institution's formal name is "The Ohio State University", but in colloquial usage it's normally called "Ohio State University." As such, the "The" should be in the bold text at the top of the article, and then not used for the remainder of the piece. The article name should be the common name, which is "Ohio State University". Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:00, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
The article name should be the common name, which is "Ohio State University" or "The Ohio State University". According to which source which name is the most common name. How did editors decide which name is most common. QuackGuru (talk) 20:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Every single time an OSU graduate announces where he's from, they invariably say "The" Ohio State University, and make sure to stress the "The". Everard Proudfoot (talk) 20:18, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Your omniscience on the matter overwhelms me. Yworo (talk) 20:19, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Wow, Nasty, much? Everard Proudfoot (talk) 20:42, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Fortunately, there are a few more people in the world than just OSU graduates, and it is common usage which prevails. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:21, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Just as an example, a Google search on "The Ohio State University" brings a little under 4 million hits, which, of course, includes all instances where the "The" is just incidental and not part of a formal title. A search on "Ohio State University" excluding instances of "the Ohio State University" brings up 6.7 million hits. Not conclusive, but indicative. Real-life experience is the confirmation: use of "The Ohio State University" is actually quite rare, and comes across as terribly pedantic. Beyond My Ken (talk) 20:26, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
This is for the same reason as the emphasis in Official Monster Raving Loony Party, yes? Guy (Help!) 21:04, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
  • I actually considered attending OSU. Pretty much everywhere you see it printed the "the" is left off. I would imagine the emphasis by alumns on the "the" is because they want to differentiate themselves from the well known party school Ohio University over in Athens. My parents didn't even want us to apply there because they worried we'd have cirrhosis by graduation... Beeblebrox (talk) 20:29, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
    • All I can say is, "Muck Fichigan" ;> Doc9871 (talk) 20:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I see there are some buckeyes in the crowd... Beeblebrox (talk) 20:35, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Buckeye fan for sure (and I can be a poisonous nut myself sometimes). As I said in my edit summary, my father simply calls it "Ohio State", and would scoff at "The Ohio State University". No offense to Everard's friends... :> Doc9871 (talk) 20:44, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Beeblebrox hit it on the head. The folks who emphasize it are distinguishing themselves from OU in Athens. It's nothing to do with the actual university name. — The Hand That Feeds You:Bite 21:04, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
The official name is clearly "The Ohio State University", but I agree with BMK, Beeblebrox and Hand. I went to "The George Washington University", but we all call it "George Washington", or simply "GW". Hope this helps more than hurts. "Welcome to Ohio State!" :> Doc9871 (talk) 21:12, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I think the quarterback of the football team knows best, and he calls it University of Ohio State. Case closed. WolverineFootball2008 (talk) 21:15, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
(Growl) Okay, Wolverine! ;> Doc9871 (talk) 21:17, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

I'll note that commonly people will abbreviate Ohio State as "tOSU" (lowercase 't' for "the") no as not to confuse with OSU, also the common abbreviation for Oklahoma State University. But who am I to talk? I pledge allegiance to the almighty Bucky Badger.MuZemike 21:29, 31 May 2010 (UTC)

What about Oregon State University? What do they do? ;> Doc9871 (talk) 21:32, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I think "ORST" is what they use, but I'm not 100%. –MuZemike 21:34, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Cool! I won't "badger" you about it... ;> Doc9871 (talk) 21:38, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
This is a bit ridiculous. It is standard practice in English to remove the word "the" before titles. Therefore, "Ohio State University" is correct, not "the Ohio State University". MC10 (TCGBL) 21:48, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Fair enough; but not always true... ;> Doc9871 (talk) 22:01, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I think that tOSU is more an internet thing than an actual official abbreviation - it's fine for informal conversation or message board smack talk, but shouldn't be used in an article. But yes, tOSU does emphasize the "the" - watch College Football Live just about any day and you'll see the announcers kid them about it by stressing the word "the" (THE Ohio State University). It's either "Ohio State" or "the Ohio State University" (an editorial decision which to use), but the editor is correct that it's not "Ohio State University". --B (talk) 22:39, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
I'll never understand why the University of Kentucky is "UK" but the University of Kanses is "KU". When I went to Lawrence to do a show there and called it "UK", our driver got indignent. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Because people are weird. As for any "officialness" to calling it OSU, look at the top image here [53] not to mention the fact that the official website is "" Beeblebrox (talk) 23:15, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Taking a look at the official website, it seems that usages with or without "The" are both frequent, along with "OSU". And there's no indication that it's a small "t", as the school's seal, for example, has it as "The". But the common name is "Ohio State University". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:39, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
Oooooh! I just knew you'd chime in hewe, you wascal! Doc9871 (talk) 23:43, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
And not that that we should model ourselves after Google, but: "OSU" - About 8,420,000 results (w/the official website at the top). "tOSU" - About 355,000 results. "Next!" ;> Doc9871 (talk) 02:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
It's most definitely "The" Ohio State, and it's hardly a technical interpretation, but the common usage. As for other school names, the people that live in the area pronounce it right. Shadowjams (talk) 05:50, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Pronounce what right, now? In which area are these people? Is this some sort of "Jedi mind trick"? I'm sorry, but I don't understand your last sentence at all... Doc9871 (talk) 06:23, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
The people that "live in the area" call University of Minnesota "The U", but nationally it's "University of Minnesota", just as it's "Ohio State University" on a national basis. No "The" prefixed. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 09:53, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Almost all of the above discussion should be discussed on the related article talk pages. Not here.--Rockfang (talk) 06:34, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Agreed I just wanted to know what to do next...--Paul McDonald (talk) 14:42, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

(the) Ohio State University NOT RESOLVED[edit]

Okay, I get that the "conversation" should take place on another page. I didn't start the conversation, a lot of other editors did.

Here's the question: What is the best way to approach these accusations of vandalism?--Paul McDonald (talk) 20:25, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Replied on user's talk page pointing them to Wikipedia:Wikiquette alerts. Yworo (talk) 22:13, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Thanks Now it's resolved!--Paul McDonald (talk) 00:32, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Ocean Mystic Researcher redux[edit]

Take a look at User talk:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ). My finger is ready to block Gattosby (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) on the basis that nominating yet another group of RAN created articles within hours of another RAN blocking event just can't possibly be unrelated.—Kww(talk) 03:32, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Do it. I consider mass deletion nominations like that disruptive at the best of times and I agree that, given the history, it;s unlikely to be coincidental. I'm contemplating closing all the AfDs as bad faith nominations... HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 03:39, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Let your finger do the talking. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:40, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Only question is, whether to ask who it is first or just block striaghtaway as a badhand account and run a checkuser to see whose it might be in this ongoing saga Casliber (talk · contribs) 03:42, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

NuclearWarfare has already blocked. Closing the AfDs seems like the right thing to do. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:43, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Having taken a look, I believe that this account, along with Sapporod1965 and Ocean Mystic Researcher, is very likely to be Torkmann—who is in turn likely to be Wiki brah. Torkmann is a user who has targeted Richard with AfD nominations in the past, as you can see from some of their other sockpuppets at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Torkmann. Dominic·t 04:57, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

NuclearWarfare procedurally closed some of the AFDs, and I got one more. Two had already received arguments for deletion before the problem was noted, so those have been left untouched.—Kww(talk) 04:34, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

I've closed a couple more, and simply deleted the MfD nomination of the userfied article (no point preserving a record there). We don't want to reward trolling any more when people actually take the bait than when they don't. - Wikidemon (talk) 05:23, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
I've reviewed the editor's contribution history, and confirmed that their other edits to the encyclopedia are either harmless or in good faith. This leaves two things pending. First, they created an article Allen Dorfman, that appears legitimate if weakly sourced. Second, an AfD nomination for the sub-stub article, Brazil–Japan relations. That wasn't one of Richard Arthur Norton's articles, so there is no harassment issue there. Also, I'm not sure what the general result was in the earlier mass nominations of the "X-Y relations articles a year or two back. - Wikidemon (talk) 05:35, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
The result was "no consensus", and the more recent run of bilateral relations nominations by LibStar have similarly failed to result in anything more than long, circular argument and bad blood. Procedurally speaking the Brazil–Japan relations AfD should probably be allowed to run but I suspect we'd get along as a community much better if it fell into an early "no consensus" closure. - DustFormsWords (talk) 05:46, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

I'd leave the Dorfman article. Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:38, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

actually, the dorfman article is in rather dramatic contradiction to dozens of excellent newspaper sources. I have re-edited the grossly erroneous part of it in accordance with the news reports, which I have added as references, and am checking it further. To me, it shows a contributor so eager to get an established account here as to work with remarkable carelessness. DGG ( talk ) 00:55, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Seems ridiculous. I would note though that RAN is attracting a lot of attention as of late. I don't think any of this drama has been productive (full disclosure, I've been opposed in 2 [of an infinite number] of bilateral relations afd debates) Shadowjams (talk) 05:44, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Oh, for crap's sake. I'm beginning to wonder if a couple of our indefinitely banned users are in on this. –MuZemike 07:07, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

I was just informed that my assumption as incorrect. My ESP must be out of sync with the CheckUsers' magic 8-ball. –MuZemike 07:14, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Who did you just checkuser to determine that? Seems pretty duckish to me. Shadowjams (talk) 07:19, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Harvardlaw block evasion again[edit]


User: is an anon of blocked user Harvardlaw, an aspiring actor again trying to add his role as an extra into a movie he was in and an "alleged" project with a big name. See previous ANI results. Diff 1 and Diff 2. Last block was for 2 weeks. Longer this time? Thanks! ~PescoSo saywe all 22:25, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

I've blocked the IP for 3 months this time.  Will Beback  talk  22:51, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Potential sockpuppet[edit]

I have the username and password of an account with which I have reason to believe may be used to vandalise Wikipedia. I cannot confirm (yet) whether it is a genuine account which was hacked or whether it is a single-purpose account created by one of our dearest and oldest enemies. I will only reveal the details of the account privately to trusted users. Jolly Ω Janner 23:06, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

Could we see the username? Rohedin (talk) 23:14, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Not sure what you want to happen, and I don't understand why you can't post the suspected sock/compromised account here. OhNoitsJamie Talk 23:17, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
If the situation is as sensitive and confidential as you suggest, you may contact the Arbitration Committee. I'm one of the arbitrators, so you can use the "e-mail this user" feature to contact me and I will forward your note to our mailing list for review and any appropriate action. Newyorkbrad (talk) 23:19, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Well I'm unsure of the sensitivity, so would feel better passing it into your hands. I was given the details by a vandal, so I'm pressuming it's a sockpuppet. Would be nice to wipe the smile of his face before he gets the chance to use it. Jolly Ω Janner 23:26, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Just change the e-mail and password to random gibberish. No need to bring the Arbitration into this. Rohedin (talk) 23:33, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
If it was a genuine account, then that would prevent a genuine user from using their account. Jolly Ω Janner 23:36, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Then refer to my first comment. Rohedin (talk) 23:38, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
User:CuriousDrat. I've already emailed the username and password to Brad though. Jolly Ω Janner 23:42, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
I don't know about any vandalism, but that's definitely a sock account being used to nominate Newgrounds for deletion, presumably while escaping scrutiny. Gavia immer (talk) 23:54, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
That was the account that made the deletion request for Newgrounds. It was a joke that my friends at the forums did because they were kicked out of the local Stickam Chatroom. I can give you the link to the topic. Rohedin (talk) 00:03, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Out of curiosity, why did Grawp give you the account? And tell me the username of the NG user that sent you it. Rohedin (talk) 00:05, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
I heavily doubt JarlaxleArtemis would do that, Rohedin. Speaking as someone who's been dealing with the blackguard for a few years now and who's just removed two threads related to him and his lemmings, it's more likely someone claiming to be him, not realizing how much of a laughingstock Grawp presently is. Not only that, but AfDs aren't his MO. —Jeremy (v^_^v Dittobori) 00:20, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
That is because the password and username was given to Grawp via one of my Newgrounds friends. Somehow he decided to wait for his latest ban to expire rather than take a freebie. Rohedin (talk) 00:22, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
No, Rohedin, Grawp's perma-banned from this site and has been since '05. Also, he doesn't edit himself (exc. vandal page moves, and even then that's iffy), rather he recruits /b/ to do his dirty work. —Jeremy (v^_^v Dittobori) 00:25, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Also been given evidence that User:Rohedin is a sockpuppet/troll involved. Would kind of make sense considering the above comments coinciding with the timing of me receiving the evidence. Jolly Ω Janner 00:18, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
I have chat logs to back up my evidence. Rohedin (talk) 00:21, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
And I say that it's not JarlaxleArtemis. He wouldn't willingly expose one of his own socks. —Jeremy (v^_^v Dittobori) 00:23, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Doesn't mean he wouldn't know how to change his MO a little after how many years this guy has been active. Rohedin (talk) 00:25, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Again, JarlaxleArtemis would never willingly expose one of his own socks, primarily because he knows that once he does so, it's blocked quickly. He'd have absolutely nothing to gain by giving up a sockpuppet to anyone. —Jeremy (v^_^v Dittobori) 00:28, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

He didn't give up the account, my friends gave him or some guy using Hagger as his MSN username who gave it to the real Grawp and then for lord knows what, he gives it to the guy that made this thread. Rohedin (talk) 00:29, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

That makes no sense whatsoever. I would try to explain why, but suffice it to say that that is most certainly not Grawp's standard behavior whatsoever. I'd say the guy using MSN faked knowing Grawp in order to get the account name. —Jeremy (v^_^v Dittobori) 00:33, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Duh! Let's stop prancing around, since my patience is wearing thin. Rohedin, email ArbCom with the details, and let them deal with this. Otherwise, stop playing Spy vs Spy. Drumming up uncertainty just isn't helpful. Rodhullandemu 00:36, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Legal Threat[edit]

I have received a legal threat on my user talk page from an IP contributor. I was directed to report here by WP:NLT, so here I am. --Danger (talk) 00:58, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

They've been blocked for a week. I wonder if this is enough, and should it only be an anon block? Whois says this is a stable IP address, so an autoblock will catch whoever was editing logged out as that IP, if anyone. Fences&Windows 01:06, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Since people seem to forget rather quickly, we do not block IPs indefinitely due to the likelihood they will be given to someone else. This applies to seemingly-stable IPs as well. —Jeremy (v^_^v Dittobori) 01:09, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
I forgot nothing. There's some leeway between one week and indefinite; one week is very brief for such a disruptive editor, and you didn't answer about the idea of an autoblock to catch anyone who was editing using this IP while logged out of an account. Fences&Windows 02:00, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
It's an anon-only block, so no autoblock here. Tim Song (talk) 02:09, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brazil–Japan relations[edit]

Resolved: AFD is closed. MC10 (TCGBL) 04:42, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
  • Would have been closed eventually, but sorted. Bradjamesbrown (talk) 17:56, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

User:Ron Broxted appears to be owned.[edit]

Resolved: User:Ron Broxted is temporarily full-protected. MC10 (TCGBL) 04:38, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

I'm not sure if these four editors below belong to the same person, but they seem to be editing the article User:Ron Broxton without permission of the user. I'm not sure if any of these editors were intended to be the same person, so I haven't warned any of them. Can any administrator help me work out what to do here?

Anyway, here are the editors that were recently modifying the userpage:

Minimac (talk) 20:09, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

How weird. I've just protected the page to stop the incessant changes while we take a look. S.G.(GH) ping! 20:20, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
It looks like he is a blogger and these people were "fans" of his blog. I have deleted the revisions in question. I suggest leaving the page s-protected. --B (talk) 21:01, 1 June 2010 (UTC)


The Three Stooges page has been vandalized.-- (talk) 01:00, 2 June 2010 (UTC)

Hardly worth noting on a board for incidents, but OK...2D Maestro Immune Diplomat 01:02, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
AIV is thataway. - NeutralHomerTalk • 01:02, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
You should also undo the vandalism and warn the vandalizer (if someone else had not already). MC10 (TCGBL) 04:30, 2 June 2010 (UTC)