Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive723

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First Marshal of the Empire[edit]

Resolved: cut-and-paste move repaired. — Oli OR Pyfan! 05:11, 7 October 2011 (UTC)


Retrieved from Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive722

Another naive redirect.

Yaris678 (talk) 17:01, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

And? What do you expect ANI to do about it?--v/r - TP 17:24, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
This is not an issue for AN/I. If the IP's edits of this sort are long-term and disruptive, WP:AIV would be the place to report. - The Bushranger One ping only 17:35, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
Besides that this issue is better off at WP:AIV if there is long term abuse, I think my "And?" is a very serious point. "Another naive redirect" and two links is very vague for an ANI thread.--v/r - TP 17:41, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
My apologies. Perhaps I should have said naive page move. Similar to Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive696#Naive move of "Mines Wellness City".
Someone has moved a page by creating a new page and changing the old page to a redirect, as indicated by the links above. This is a problem because it does not preserve the article history.
If there is a better way to describe that or a better location to alert admins then I would be interested to know.
I am of the understanding that only someone with admin privileges can sort that out. If I am wrong, please enlighten me.
Yaris678 (talk) 16:01, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
I believe the terminology you are looking for is a "cut-and-paste move"Oli OR Pyfan! 16:55, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
It's been fixed. Indeed, it was fixed shortly after you opened this thread. There was really no need to return it to the front page. — Oli OR Pyfan! 05:11, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Cool. Thanks for directing me to Wikipedia:How to fix cut-and-paste moves. Very useful. Yaris678 (talk) 08:21, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

user ozgurmulazimoglu and user omulazimoglu[edit]

Hello;

Years ago i signed up for wikipedia with the name ozgurmulazimoglu. Years passed and i did sign up on commons with username ozgurmulazimoglu. One day when i moved from commons to wikipedia i saw also a global account name ozgurmulazimoglu was created automatically on wikipedia. And then somone said i was sockpuppeting with two user names. And then a lot of problems came out. First i had to sign out and sign in back when i move between commons and wikipedia. And then someone blocked ozgurmulazimoglu on wikipedia and said he has puppet. Then when i sign to wikipedia with omulazimoglu it autoblocks me and says that your ip was used by ozgurmulazimoglu. I made no sockpupetry. I only need one account not two. I have asked on commons to change my screen name from ozgurmulazimoglu to omulazimoglu as it to be same with the name on wikipedia. It is on progress but everytime i sign in wikipedia with omulazimoglu it auto blocks me. I am sick of it. Pls someone show me a way. I need one simple account only. Thank you.MULAZIMOGLU (talk) 06:18, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Lemme see if I can sort this out.
Omulazimoglu (talk · contribs) is your current account used here, was created in 2007 and exists only on en-wiki.
Ozgurmulazimoglu (talk · contribs) is your unified account on other wikis, created in 2009 on Commons, but was blocked here on en-wiki in January 2010.
Apparently you were blocked because you made the mistake of using both accounts in parallel during some time between November 2009 and January 2010, while also engaging in some contentious editing. The blocking admin, EyeSerene, was formally in the right about this, but since both accounts have so obviously similar names I think it is obvious that there was no deceptive intention on your part.
Let's do the following: I'll unblock the unified account, you promise to abandon the old non-unified one, and we redirect the user pages so the relation between the two will remain obvious. Fut.Perf. 06:44, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

IP BLP vandal[edit]

Resolved

- blocked - Sitush (talk) 09:31, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Any chance of a quick, short block on 213.48.68.10 (talk · contribs). Vandalising Carlos Slim, a BLP, and appears to have a history of this sort of thing. - Sitush (talk) 09:06, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

WP:AIV is the place for reporting vandalism. - David Biddulph (talk) 09:09, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, but it takes a while and rolling back is getting tedious. Though I had seen people give a yell here in awkward situations. I'll just ignore and let someone else pick up the heat. Sorry to bother. - Sitush (talk) 09:11, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
I've put in for semi-PP. Again,my apologies. - Sitush (talk) 09:21, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

User:Bad good dragosh98[edit]

Resolved: Blocked 1 year causa sui (talk) 22:35, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Over the passed few days, several editors at WP:WikiProject Football, myself included, have had trouble with Bad good dragosh98 (talk · contribs). He has a blatant disregard for notability guidelines. Many of the articles this user has created have gone straight to afd. Once nomminated, he has frequently removed the afd tags. In at least one instance, Horia Crişan, he has recreated deleted articles repeatidly. He has been involved in at least one edit warring dispute. Most importantly, all atempts to communicate with him, both in English and Romanian, which appears to be his native language, have been ignored. A quick look at his talk page will give an idea as to what the problems are. Best Regards. Sir Sputnik (talk) 22:46, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

As far as I can tell, this user has never once communicated on an article or user talk page, aside from the original non-English note xe left on xyr user talk shortly after joining. The user has dozens of articles deleted, via prod, BLP-prod, and Speedy, and now some are going through AfD. If WikiProject Football is fed up with him, then it seems that even if some of xyr info is useful, the overall drain on resources is such that the user is a net negative to the project. Qwyrxian (talk) 05:18, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
I would suggest a one year block. The previous discussions here at ANI have suggested that a major part of this editor's problems is that their understanding of English is, at present, just not good enough to allow them to edit en.wiki articles without causing disruption. Making a quick assumption from the username and the editing behaviour, there's a fair chance the editor is a young teenager whose first language is not English. Doubtless they are learning English in school; if so then it's plausible that one year from now their English might be good enough to participate without problems. A year's break might also help with any other problems that exist aside from the language problems.
I'd also request that, if that's the route gone down, someone phrase an explanation of it politely and encouragingly, and put it on their talk page in Romanian. It's a good idea to make them understand that this is not a punitive block, and that they're encouraged to contribute to ro.wiki in the meantime, and to contribute to en.wiki again when their English skills have developed more. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 05:31, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Sounds like an excellent idea. Are there any Romanian speakers in the house? KillerChihuahua?!?Advice 16:54, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Blocked 1 year by me. If anyone can get through to him and get him talking, you are welcome to shorten it without my leave. Regards, causa sui (talk) 22:05, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

==

and User:Wlkr999 ==

and User:Wlkr999 suddenly joined in the English Wikiredia. They seems to think that their own arguments and sources are correct, and then it should be achieved their own purpose in several articles of History of Korea [1], Timeline of Korean history [2], Template:History of Korea [3], and Gojoseon [4]. However, I believe that behaviors of two user was intentional distorting the truth about Korean history, and these actions is suppose to contempt for Wikipedia rules such as WP:EW, and WP:TAGTEAM.

especially violates the WP:PA by swear word to me as "Shut up Historiographer, how dare you to claim it is unreliable?".[5] I felt deeply insulted by him, and think it is That's pretty harsh for the other user. I hope and admin take fair action to

and User:Wlkr999 about these hostile personal attack, distorting the Korean history, vandals in Korea-related articles, and violate the several Wikipedia rules. Thanks.--Historiographer (talk) 02:32, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

I see several concerning things here. First, I don't see anybody talking on the article/template talk pages--and they (may be)/are new users, so they might have an excuse, but you're a long term veteran Historiographer, so you should know that you can't just try to keep an article in your preferred version just by edit warring.
Having said that, I am highly concerned that these two editors started editing only a week apart, and so far have a nearly 100% overlap: Wlkr999 has edited exactly 3 different articles/templates, all 3 of which Quendearn has also edited (Quendearn's only additional article is Timeline of Korean history. Plus, it rings some alarm bells to me that Quendearn's very first edit had the edit summary of "repaired a ref link; to be consistant with other cites of Wiki". It also bothers me that, when Historiographer warned Wlkr999 for disruptive editing (which may or may not be justified), Wlk999's response included the line, "BTW, I noticed many editing wars in your editing history"--note that this comment was made after Wlk999 had been editing about 1 week. Wlk999's first 4 edits were reverts of another editor. Of course, all of these things are explainable, but put together I'm suspecting off-wiki coordination, sockpuppetry, and/or a returned user coming back under a new name. I know we've had people blocked for bad behavior on Korean history articles before, but no names spring to my mind. Anyone with any more specific thoughts. Qwyrxian (talk) 05:08, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
First, I am new here. If my sentence was too harsh and offended you, Historiographer, I would like to apologize.

Then considering the revision I made, I here need to statement the followings: 1. The refs I used: "Korea, Old and New" and "The Korea, A global studies handbook" are western academic publications (third party press, with Korean authors) and are the standard text-books in US universities on Korea study. The outer links I included are all from .edu sites and with specific authors who are responsible to. "Korea, Old and New", is considered to be "most reliable and useful" by journal of Korean Study (vol.16,pp 118). Anyone can use google scholar to search this book and can find out it has the most citations among the pubs on Korea history. Without any research, Historiographer judged my refs to be unreliable even after I had told him/her what those refs are. For me, such illogical behavior only implies nationalistic emotions and bad intentions. 2. Every sentence (Yes, every sentence) I added or corrected is according to or even from the refs I mentioned above. Historiographer undid many revisions of mine without providing any supporting facts or evidence. I hope admin could check all the edits between Historiographer and I and judge who is telling the facts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Quendearn (talkcontribs) 05:41, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, as a new editor, you may not be aware, but admins don't do that. We don't arbitrate content decisions and pick the "right" answer (at least, we're not supposed to). Our "job" is to handle issues related to user behavior, along with some ancillary things like deletions and page protections. Qwyrxian (talk) 05:59, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Well then, if Historiographer continues to undo all my revisions without reasons and supporting evidence as what he has done, what should I do? Who should I ask to conclude the "right" one? Quendearn (talk) 06:13, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
There is no "right" one to be concluded. You have to talk it out at the article's talk page. There's a tab running across the top of every page labeled "discussion" that allows you to discuss these issues. As an editor, you are responsible for reaching a consensus on the contents of the article with other editors. Please read up on some policy topics around content disputes, like WP:BATTLE, WP:CON, and most importantly, WP:WIN. You may also want to peruse WP:TALK, just so you get the hang of how talk page discussions go on. I think those will give you a good basis for resolving a content dispute productively. Remember that Wikipedia is foremost a community, not just a collection of facts. VanIsaacWScontribs 07:38, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Quendearn, you are consistently claimed your sources are right in this page. Although original refs are written in a Korean language, contents of original version were not incorrect, irrespective of non-existent my Korean nationalistic view you said, and this edit-war is stated by You and Wlkr999. I did not refer about relationship between you and Wlkr999, which was already mentioned by Qwyrxian, however, there's something suspicious about its sockpuppetry. In addition, I have doubts about even 68.181.9.40, who revert to your controversial version. (68.181.9.40 sarcastic said as if 203.247.149.239 is me, but, examination of the facts proves the its correlation, and it is contrary possible that IP is somebody's sock.) There are still remained about your violate the rules of WP:EW and WP:TAGTEAM. What's your opinion about this?--Historiographer (talk) 10:24, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
I think that it should be needs to investigation of sockpuppetry, and admin judgment for his various violent on WP:PA, WP:EW and WP:TAGTEAM. Thank you.--Historiographer (talk) 10:33, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Historiographer, yes, my refs are accurate. I provided the evidence to prove the accuracy, and if you deny this, support your self by showing proofs. My account is logged-out before I noticed and therefore 68.181.9.40 was shown on the edit history page instead of my account name. There is no need for you to be suspicious. However, the Korean ip 203.247.149.239 did the same thing as you did to maintian your controversial version. Right after that ip said to discuss the revision of mine, you appeared and posted your response first time to my arguments. What a coincidence! I hope admin could investigate this sockpuppetry and Historiographer's violation of WP:EW for undoing without reasons and supporting facts. Quendearn (talk) 22:35, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Quendearn, you are confusing accurate facts with something else, and I agree some of your claims, not whole of them. And don't cloud the issue and don't shift responsibility on me. Sockpuppetry suspecting is your one.--Historiographer (talk) 02:20, 9 October 2011 (UTC)
Historiographer, I doubt whether you read through all what I have written above. You have the rights to disagree with anyone. But when you edit wiki pages and force your opinion onto other readers, you must provide proofs. Well, anyway, I have stated the facts with evidence here and made my requests. Quendearn (talk) 02:39, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

I would like to report the activities of some editors – ethnic abuse and edit warring from the side of eastern european editors[edit]

It looks in Wikipedia is the ideological group acting together. Its a strong meatpuppetry here and ideological canvassing. I speak about coordinated edits and canvassing of users: User:Norden1990, User:Fakirbakir and User:Koertefa. They often contact the skilled users User:Hobartimus and User:Nmate – this two users usualy dont edit Wikipedias article, but just a monitor users involved in the articles about eastern european topics, waiting for a their mistakes or provocate them by edit warring or wikistalking, contact admins (CANVASS) and write reports. This situation is a long term.

It is important. User Samofi is talking about 5 Hungarian users.Fakirbakir (talk) 11:26, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
The Little Entente was revived on Wikipedia. I don't care this kind of conspiracy theories, I'm not used to consult with anyone before editing. Sándor Rudnay was a Hungarian cardinal and noble of Slovak origin in the Kingdom of Hungary so I used his Hungarian name. The Slovak Uprising located in Hungary, not in Slovakia which established in 1993 (Before that an independent Slovakia consisted between 1939-1945, a puppet state of the Nazi Germany). --Norden1990 (talk) 13:41, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

A. User:Norden1990[edit]

Iam offended by his statements against Romanians: „It is not possible to discuss with an anti-Hungarian chauvinist, you proved this yourself“ [6] „moved Hungarian Romanian War of 1919 to 1919 Hungarian–Romanian War: Ok, but this is a very unfortunate title, because there was an other enemy in Hungary: Czechoslovakia. On the other hand this article is a typical product of Romanian chau...)“ – he meaned chauvinism[7]

Iam offended by his statements against Slovaks and he is deleteing content in the Slovak related articles: „Slovak? No comment“[8] „Slovakia??? When?“[9] „moved Alexander Rudnay to Sándor Rudnay: He was a Hungarian of Slovak descent not a Slovak. He served in the Kingdom of Hungary, Slovakia established in 1993.[10] Slovaks were autochtonous nation in the Kingdom of Hungary before 1918 and distinct Slovak nation durring the Czechoslovakia before 1993. Its ethnic related comments.

He is changeing the names of persons and geographic areas without discussion and consensus: [11] [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] [22] Hungarian names of the towns and vilages in the Kingdom of Hungary were official only between 1868-1918. In the clear Slovak person should be mentioned primary Slovak names of the towns and villages acording to Elonka´s experiment.

Moveing articles withot consensus and edit warring: [23] [24] [25] [26]

User:Norden1990 is highly disruptive user in the topics connected with Slovak history, he is not able to make a consensus and he uses the ethnic abuse if somebody doesnt agree with him. He is not disruptive only in the case of the modern Hungarian politicians.

User:Norden1990 I also would like to report the rude and aggressive behavior of this user who insulted me on several occasions (I was the chauvinist from [27]). Last time he insulted me on my Talk page [[28]]. He reacted to my warning about stopping to insult me with a post on my Talk page that ends with: ...So you can go to hell.... I believe that such behavior should not be condoned on Wikipedia as it goes against the very principle of cooperation among editors that makes Wikipedia possible. Octavian8 (talk) 12:49, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

B. User:Fakirbakir[edit]

I feel a personaly touched by his statements and strong ethnic related abuse: „Samofi you are a Slovak nationalist user who hates Hungarian pages“[29] He was asked for a few times to delete it, but its still there: [30]

I apologised about it[31]. Moreover User:Samofi's only aim is to ruin my work. See the history of Principality of Hungary (speedy deletion, AFD, Renaming process by user Samofi). This page was created by me. Fakirbakir (talk) 11:05, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

This statement is an agressive political personal attack to my country and to Slovak people: „The modern Slovakia is a neo-fascist state where the hungarian minority is just a thing what they have to assimilate into the slovak society“[32]

I was new here. I admit it was a strong statement one and a half year ago. I was huffily because there was another comment about the 'good' relations between Slovak majority and Hungarian minority. Unfortunately it is not true in my opinion. But now I know I have to avoid this kind of behavior.Fakirbakir (talk) 11:05, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

And here other examples of bad behaviour: „You do not understand his complain because you can not see your own troll behavior“ [33] [34] Propagation of „scientific racism“ as a modern theory and edit warring: [35]

I deleted my statement and I wrote this 'It was untethical from me":[36]. Moreover Turanid race was used by Hungarian anthropologists in the socialist era in Hungary. It had nothing to do with Turanism. I tried to explain to another user, because he had offended me[37][38]. Fakirbakir (talk) 11:05, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Edit warring mentality in the variouse articles and with variouse editors: User:Daizus [39] User:Samofi [40] [41] [42] [43] User:Iadrian_yu [44] User:Octavian8 [45] User:Wladthemlat [46] User:Yopie [47] Other users: [48]

It is all about content disputes.Fakirbakir (talk) 11:05, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Moveing pages without discussion and consensus: Allied intervention in Hungary [49] Royal Hungary [50]

If you examine the content of page of Allied intervention (1918-20), It had nothing to do with revolution of 1848. It was redirected to 1848. About the other article, the expanded page of Habsburg Royal Hungary was the missing link between Kingdom of Hungary in the Middle ages and Austria-Hungary. An admin tried to do the same thing before me. See its talkpage.[51]. Nobody tried to revert it, because it does make sense.Fakirbakir (talk) 11:05, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Canvassing: Principality of Nitra [52] Principality of Hungary [53] Against admins [54] „I know that page does not have to be exist as a full page I know why you supported him but.....Please keep your eyes on him“[55]

All is about content disputes because USER SAMOFI used pov statements and his only aim is to ruin Hungarian related articles. Everybody questioned his sources. See talk page of Principality of Hungary or Principality of Nitra. About the 'admin' link I withdrew it and I wrote to the summary 'It was unethical from me'[56].Fakirbakir (talk) 11:05, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Changeing the content without sources: [57] [58]

IT is content dispute again. And User Samofi knows well Great Moravia was annihilated in 902. It is historical fact. What about the names? In 1570-1711 Transylvania was ruled primary by Hungarian princes. They have a right to use Hungarian names.Fakirbakir (talk) 11:05, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

User:Fakirbakir add a strongly negative contributions to Slovak related articles. He is not neutral and he is often involved in edit warring. His work consist with writing the synthesis. He usualy finds a nationalistic hungarian source what is just a minor theory. Than he is writing a new article like a synthesis to prove that this minor theory is right. His canvassing is based on ethnical selection: [59] - Dear Koertefa, As you see, user PANONIAN (the first one, who redirected principality of Hungary, a Serb user)and user Samofi (a Slovak user) can ruin our editing easily. Unfortunately, English editors, administrators do not know Hungarian history...Thank you for your supporting! (Nálam kicsapta a biztosítékot ez az admin húzás) - it is ethnical based canvassing, it should be no place in wikipedia for this.

These are biased statements. "nationalistic sources". IF I use Hungarian academic works for sources It will be nationalist? Or Sources from English authors.?Fakirbakir (talk) 11:05, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

C. User:Koertefa[edit]

His edits are usualy strongly anti-slovakian and anti-romanian. He is not creating a new articles but he usualy helps to other editors with edit warring after canvassing. He is involved ONLY in the articles where are often edit wars, so he came here only from the ideological reasons. Here is his history: [60] Its only edit warring and ideological warring at talkpages. How many of the new sources or sentences he added? How many articles he created? A planty of users make a disruptions but it should be balanced by benefication of wikipedia. In this case its only disruptions. He is changeing the names of towns against agreeoment that it will the Slovak names of the towns: [61] [62]

He is deleteing the names of the people with slovak descent: [63]

He is often involved in edit wars: [64] [65] [66] [67] [68] [69] [70]

He vandalized my talk page for a several times: [71]

Contributions of User:Koertefa are motivated only to enforce his point of view and edit warring. He is usualy edit warring against my edits and edits of User:Omen1229 --Samofi (talk) 09:56, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

  • User Samofi is a "two times" banned user because of his editing in connection with Hungarian articles. His only aim is to ruin Hungarian related articles. Now I see he has another aim to ban Hungarian users. I could not work properly because of his disruptive editing. check his history here.Fakirbakir (talk) 11:09, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
  • NOTE

Dear user Fakirbakir, please write about your edits, not about mine. I was banned for them - it was a case 2 weeks ago and 1,5 year ago. Stop to attack me: His only aim is to ruin Hungarian related articles. Now I see he has another aim to ban Hungarian users. Is it possible that this user say this statements without a proofs? Its clear battleground mentality based on ethnicity/nationality. I dont want your ban, but you broken rules and you should awake it. And stop with attacks on my person coz this report is about you. With your last edits you destroyed my report with your addings in to my text [72]. This user is more and more agressive with his edits and he is not aware of it. --Samofi (talk) 11:35, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

  • I destroyed nothing. I have signed my comments. You was banned because you did not sign your comments. You should not state untrue things.Fakirbakir (talk) 11:37, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Why are you talking all the time about me? Its again your manipulation. When I was banned because I did not sign my comments? Iam waiting for a link (proof). You added the text into my text, so now its hard to read it. You cannot instert your text into mine. Please fix it. --Samofi (talk) 11:47, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

To whom it may concern: here is my brief defense. I start with stating that I do not keep personal contact with other editors, I do not belong to any "group", and I never abused anybody ethnically. I also think that both Slovakia and Hungary belong to Central Europe in the historical, cultural and geographical sense, so I am against calling this region "Eastern Europe", even though these countries were part of the Eastern Block. Regarding the accusations above: (1) I did not delete the real name of anybody, especially not a Slovak name. What I have deleted [73] was just a dubious statement about the (alleged) birth name of that person, since that claim was misleading and tried to hide a Latin translation. I gave a detailed explanation of my action on the Talk page of that article [74]. I made several contributions to that article [75][76], and I tried to improve many other articles, as well [77][78][79]. About (2) the so-called "edit wars" cited above: most of those edits are related to naming conventions. These edits were consistent with the usual historical naming conventions and the guidelines of Wikipedia. I only used the names that were appropriate for the historical period in question (always providing the modern names, as well). Recently, I only asked for mentioning the relevant historical name, too, in brackets at the first occurrence [80]. My edits were even consistent with the proposed naming guidelines of user Elonka [81], a Slovak user, by the way. I expressed that the editors of these topics should reach a consensus about the historical names, in order to avoid potential edit wars [82]. Moreover, I am committed to the improvement of Wikipedia, I usually give detailed explanation of my edits (edit tags, Talk pages), and I am open to consensus: for example, I was the one who added the claim that "András Hadik" had Slovak ancestry [83], after a consensus was reached on the Talk page [84]. Finally, about "vandalizing" a user's Talk page [85]: this was just a minor warning (which the user deleted immediately) since I felt that I was personally attacked, e.g., [86]. Therefore, I refuse the accusations given above, but, please, feel free to take a look at my contributions [87] and decide for yourself. All the best, Koertefa (talk) 08:39, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Considering sanctions[edit]

Okay, stop it. You've all talked quite enough now. I'll be looking into this at some moment when I find a bit of time for it, and I more or less expect I'll end up banning the lot of you together, unless somebody else beats me to it. I recommend you now make a brief statement each explaining why you yourself should not be banned, but don't bother talking any further about why the other party should. Fut.Perf. 11:55, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
It's a shame. I edited a lot for the common good. However I can accept if User Fut. Perf wants to judge my future here. I am tired to work with editors like User Samofi and I know wiki loses a lot of editors because of this sort of problems. I do not mind...Fakirbakir (talk) 12:09, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
I agree wholeheartedly. I've not seen anything but disruptive and contentious editing from any of the above editors, and have seen no indication of anyone's intention to de-escalate their conflict in order to reach consensus. Right now, I would say that none of these editors is even close to being an asset to the community. VanIsaacWScontribs 12:23, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Have you ever checked User Koertefa's or User Norden1990's editing? They are very diligent editors. Norden1990 is a professional "biography writer".Fakirbakir (talk) 19:33, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Support' block of all the squabbling editors here, per FutPerf. Maybe if they can only edit their talk page they'll stop making accusatory statements about each other and be willing to examine, and dare we hope? change their own behavior. KillerChihuahua?!?Advice 12:31, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Could you explain it? Was I disruptive when I created new pages (Pelso plate, Tisza Plate, Komlosaurus carbonis, Principality of Hungary, István Koháry etc) or tried to improve and rationalize a lot of articles especially in connection with Hungarian history? Fakirbakir (talk) 12:42, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
And you should wait for explanations of the other mentioned editors. This method is biased without them.Fakirbakir (talk) 12:47, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

This is the third, maybe fourth, time this issue has appeared on ANI. Wouldn't editing in these articles come under WP:DIGWUREN sanctions? --Blackmane (talk) 13:18, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Indeed, it does. Fut.Perf. 13:30, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
AH, I just re-read it to double check. Perhaps, the editors who are not already warned under WP:DIGWUREN should be placed on notice and the whole lot directed to WP:DRN. If that doesn't sort it out, then sanctions and blocks are the only remaining recourse. Fakirbakir, I should mention that Nmate has been blocked for a month as of yesterday so you'll not be hearing from them. --Blackmane (talk) 14:24, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

May I point out the obvious? It is high time for admins to take responsibility for the mistakes they make. user:Samofi was indefinitely blocked already. It's safe to say that anti-Hungarian edits and other issues were covered under that block with the general term "disruptive editing". The the exact same admin who thought it was a good idea to unblock [88] the now banned user:Iaaasi Unblocked Samofi a few weeks later [89]. I estimate that user:Iaaasi wasted hundreds of hours from the lives of community members, and admins forcing them to detect, tag block sockpuppets [90] and various other disruptions. Iaaasi of course, being a proven Hungarian-hating editor intervened for Samofi so that Samofi could get unblocked. The now banned Iaaasi went as far as claiming previously unclaimed sockpuppets as his own just so Samofi could get unblocked [91]. So the community wasted a few hundred hours on Iaaasi after Iaaasi's unblocked, but what happened to Samofi? Well the except same thing with the exception of Samofi edits a lot less frequently. Iaaasi had thousands and thousands of edits, so he got banned relatively quickly, Samofi only has a grand total of 800 something edits over several years, a much slower rate. But it doesn't mean that he in general wasn't just as disruptive per edit, just with a lot fewer edits. He was unblocked by the exact same admin who unblocked Iaaasi. So a known and by admin confirmed disruptive user was dumped back on the community by an admin. No matter he was already indefinitely blocked for being so disruptive, let's just unblock him, while admins wash their hands of the consequences. Then surprise surprise, the same user, who was disruptive enough to get indeffed, has problems with other editors again! Who saw that coming? Who would have thought that he will be disruptive and attack other users, edit war and appear on ANI. Who would have thought that he would have a problem once again with Hungarian editors, when before his original block he already wrote "Its not good for Hungarians because majority of Hungarian inventors were Jews" and "Hungarian users are not neutral.". It seems like that this recent incident is nothing new and a direct consequence of unblocking a once already 100% proven and by admin confirmed disruptive user. I don't like how admins wash their hands of any responsibility when a problem surfaces that the admin corps itself created by unblocking irresponsibly and without due process. The solution here is to not unblock users like Iaaasi who are sure to cause issues further down the line (yes Samofi edits less often its a big plus and because of the editing rate difference Iaaasi was a lot bigger drain on the community). Hobartimus (talk) 14:55, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

And I wouldn't even be surprised if Iaaasi is somehow involved here, according to the user:Iaaasi user page, this user is known for "soliciting users by e-mail" one such case was a user from Slovakia who had a lot of manufactured "conflict" with Hungarian editors, over several articles, and made several reports and complained to admins about Hungarian editors (all under the directions of user:Iaaasi). one such report We also know that Iaaasi found it important to intervene for Samofi's unblock more than a year ago already. Hobartimus (talk) 14:49, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

(ec)Let me also respond to the small part where I am mentioned after all that's why I was notified and called into this ANI thread. I am mentioned in a single sentence, User:Samofi writes that I, Hobartimus "usualy dont edit Wikipedias article", a statement which seems outright insane considering how I have over 12 000 edits and user:Samofi 835. This is so out of place that I started to think about it. Why would he write such a sentence?? If we consider user:Iaaasi "helped out" user Samofi in writing part, or all of this "report" as he wrote few dozen previous ones against Hungarian editors then the statement is not so out of place any more. User Iaaasi has hundreds of sockpuppets IP socks and accumulated thousands upon thousands of edits in the past 1.5 years or so. So from Iaaasi's POV, its not so insane to think that I Hobartimus don't edit that much because in the past year or so Iaaasi had more edits than me. He also owned over hundreds of socks and IPs so he would think of himself as someone who contributes a great deal under many aliases. But Samofi who has 835 grand total edits? It's impossible to think that he would write something like that by himself. He would never think that someone with 12 000 edits is not an active editor or that they "usually don't edit". So If Samofi wrote this report by himself its utter nonsense but the whole thing starts to make sense from the POV of Iaaasi and his countless thousands of edits that he made while he socked all over Wikipedia. Hobartimus (talk) 15:40, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

And here it is again. We don't care what other people have done; this is about your actions. The very fact that none of you can do anything but point fingers is the problem here. Quite frankly, it's not productive, and the project is probably better without the distraction. Future left you a very simple task above: convince us that you don't deserve to be sanctioned, without talking about why another party should. Hobartimus, you have failed at that simple task in epic proportions. VanIsaacWScontribs 15:31, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

Vanisaac I ask you to withdraw your personal attack comment above. Your statement above that I need to prove anything is incorrect, because I am not accused of anything. is a pretty outrageous personal attack and deserves an apology. Hobartimus (talk) 15:44, 6 October 2011 (UTC)

(ec)For others reading this, I suspect that user:Vanisaac didn't actually read this section of ANI that he commented above and this is why he didn't notice there isn't any evidence listed against me in all of this wall of text above. Therefore with no evidence listed against me I need nothing to disprove. I ask future participants that they read the discussions first before they comment on them. Hobartimus (talk) 15:55, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Which is just the point. A simple "Hey, there doesn't really seem to be any actual accusation against me." would have been perfect. Instead, you took your opportunity to respond to drag this conversation back into tit-for-tat accusations that are the problem. Future indicates that he didn't even consider you to be part of this matter, and neither did I. I'm not sure after your responses above that that will ever be a consensus again. VanIsaacWScontribs 16:11, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
What personal attack? Now you're pointing fingers at Vanisaac instead of addressing the original request. He's right; you talked about Samofi and Iaaasi, accusing them of POV pushing and apparantly being anti Hungarian; you don't see that you are making attacks, and Vanisaac is only trying to get you to respond to Fut.Perf.'s very simple request? KillerChihuahua?!?Advice 15:52, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Actually, I wasn't referring to Hobartimus; I'm not even sure his name had come up before at all. I'll also emphasise that it wasn't me who put up the sub heading of "proposed blanket ban" up there. I certainly didn't propose any such thing; what I said was that I would be looking into everybody's conduct (and then possibly swing the DIGWUREN hammer, where appropriate, but on an individual basis.) Fut.Perf. 15:59, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
(ec once again response to KC) The one where he didn't notice that there is no subsection titled "Hobartimus" and no evidence listed against Hobartimus. No diffs from Hobartimus. No nothing. user:Iaaasi is banned for his disruptions over a lot of CheckUser confirmed socks and IP socks. and I'm not accusing him of anything only stating facts, any of which I can back up with even more evidence if requested. It's all in SPI, tagged socks, etc etc. Samofi was indefinitely blocked it's also a fact not an accusation I will respond to everything if you have further questions. Hobartimus (talk) 16:01, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
That would be a simple case of mistaken identity, not a personal attack. KillerChihuahua?!?Advice 16:28, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
I put the sub-heading, and I apologize if it is misleading. I was only trying to split it from the conversation of the third party, above. VanIsaacWScontribs 16:11, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Okay, I will write about myself. My name was calling here for a few times with negative statements. Why I should not be blocked? My first experiences with Wikipedia were about 5 years ago with this acount. I was just a testing it, probably with the not so high level of the english language. I wanted to improve slovak related articles. In that time I was naive and I thought that we can write all sourced theories. In that time I firstly noticed that some opinions of majority or the singnificant minority of the scholars are hidden. Than I had a free time from Wikipedia - I had time to improve my language and watching the situation in Wikipedia. After that I saw, that Slovak related historical articles are written mostly from Hungarian point of view and our sources were ignored and discommend, I wanted to show next singnificant opinions of the scholars. In that time I was writing my diploma about slovaks in former hungarian kingdom, so I had a knowledge from czech and slovak historians about slovak history in hungarian kingdom. but my sources were deleted, so I started to be "agresive" and I was pushing this sources without consensus, but this deletion of my sources were wikistalking. I was relatively new after a long time without editing. I told some nationalistic sentences. In that time I was blocked for a half year. I was thinking about my behaviour and I was studying the rules of Wikipedia. I told to myself that I will not abusive to other users and I hope that last half year I was not. Also I was studying english and also hungarian sources about our common Slovak-Hungarian history. I told to myself that I will use mostly neutral english language sources which are in the majority or in the significant minority and the same thing I will expecting from the other users. But if they broken this "my" rule I broken 3RR, but it was a mistake and I was sorry about that. I was blocked for a week. I had again time for a thinking. I told to myself, that I will use talk pages and noticeboards to discuss a topics important for me. I will not edit impulsive - I will write a longer texts and thinking about them. I want to improve articles connected with Slovakia. Firstly I would like to fight against original research and in the second case against nationalistic abuse, because I know that human can change. I dont wish nothing bad to this users and I would like to cooperate with them in future but we have to respect each-other. I believe that I made a big progress in Wikipadia from the past time to the present time. You can see, that my "disruptive" edits of last months were associated with one article (Principality of Hungary) - so its not about ideology or nationality. Its just against original research and synthesis. My activity to improve this article was broken because of canvassing and not respecting of bold-revert-discuss cyclus. Iam sure that I can be useful in improving wikipedia and if is my behaviour still inappropriate I can be better in future. About my contacts with other users or sockpuppetry. I did not contact any user in the different place as here. I had 1 sockpuppet - CsabaBabba I told its me and it was a long time ago. From that time Iam "clean" :) So.. Positives: I started to more discuss, I dont abuse other users and I stoped to use a nationalistic sentences, Iam controling adherence of "no original research" and Iam looking for a users who should be reported in DIGWUREN... Negatives: bad history of my edits.. Thanx for reading. --Samofi (talk) 19:35, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
And connect me with Iaaasi? Its serious attack and paranoid theory. Its no proofs for this. If there are a objective evidences I would like to see them. Iam individualist. --Samofi (talk) 19:43, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
So long as you are here Samofi, you could answer a question I was wondering. What do you think, why did Iaaasi contact you through the Slovak wikipedia? Was that because people are less likely to notice it there? Also why did you write that I "usualy dont edit Wikipedias article" I have over 12500 edits and you have only have about 800. So why would you write something like that unless somehow you have a lot more edits than me. To me this is clearly something that Iaaasi wrote, I see no other possible explanation. Hobartimus (talk) 20:08, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
I dont know that he contacted me or I dont remember. When I was last time logged at Slovak Wikipedia? I forgotten password.. It was a years ago.. I dont want to be connected with nobody. I never made personal canvassing or contacting of the users. As you can see, in this case I called all editors and I knew that some of this editors can say a lot of dirty about my past. But I dont live for nostalgic history, I wanna live for future. I would like to create something like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Greek_and_Turkish_wikipedians_cooperation_board for Slovaks and Hungarians. There can be admin which will regulate us and there can be a few neutral mediators. All big problems we should discuss there - its prevention against nationalistic oriented edits. I told incorrectly "usualy dont edit Wikipedias article". If you were offended sorry - it was meaned that you usually remove the reverts, change few words or letters or translate slovak names to hungarian. Honestly how many a new articles you created or how many sources you have add? Iam sure it will similary number between me and you. When I was banned I wrote a long report about you (only in my pc), you are not so clean as you think but I did not report you here, I only mentioned you here. Last half year of your editation here you did not made a ethnical abuse, last time I remember an inappropriate comment about Matica slovenska so I think you changed a little. But you should stop to hunting people and more edit in the area of your interests. Now you should start to understand different opinions and respect them. Maybe new http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Slovak_and_Hungarian_wikipedians_cooperation_board will open the way for our cooperation. --Samofi (talk) 20:32, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
And Iam surprised that so experienced and skilled editor as you talking about yourself, did not have an idea how to solve this problem. Really was the best way to solve this problem edit warring and writing of thousands of reports? If our historians and your historians have a different reflection of history why it should not be mentioned a both significant view-points? We need 1 admin and 3-4 neutral mediators. Controversial topics will edit only if all neutral mediators and admin find a consensus. --Samofi (talk) 20:45, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Problems continue.. User:Fakirbakir is not able work with good manners according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:BOLD,_revert,_discuss_cycle I reverted edit which looks like a original research and opened discussion in talk page. He reverted my edits, without discussion and consensus because he is not able to dicuss and make compromises http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:History_of_Hungary&action=history. User:Koertefa canvassed by User:Fakirbakir to the topic Principality of Hungary continue with ideological battle: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research/Noticeboard#Principality_of_Hungary_-_synthesis_and_original_research.2C_no_sources_talking_about_this_principality_in_895 They continue with original research and they are not able to accept their mistakes and reach the compromise. --Samofi (talk) 13:00, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Mostly uninvolved comment. I've had a content disagreement with Fakirbakir myself—at Allied Intervention in Hungary if you're curious—, but I have no idea what the above bruhaha is about. I found Fakirbakir to be reasonably responsive to criticism, and while I admit that I have not read the above discussion due to its WP:TLDR nature, I think Fakirbakir can be reasonably constructive. Please consider my statement as a mitigating factor if you consider sanctioning him. Have mörser, will travel (talk) 16:32, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

tz database & lawsuit[edit]

Folks might want to keep an eye on tz database and the redirect at Thomas Shanks given the lawsuit mentioned in this Slashdot post. The User:JulDes and User:TZ master accounts seem a little odd given the timing and account creation dates, but I'm unsure if these may or may not be the same individual (and if so, maybe he just needs an explanation that using multiple undisclosed accounts while editing the same material tends to be frowned upon). The editing of Thomas Shanks (a redirect which had existed since 2006) by both accounts definitely seemed a little unusual. --Tothwolf (talk) 03:29, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Checkuser data suggests that these accounts are  Unrelated. AGK [] 12:07, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Because two accounts have two articles they edited in common Wikipedia runs a checkuser? Another one that did edit both is:
TZ master (talk) 12:53, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
There was an overlap in the behaviour of your account and that of JulDes, so technical data was required to (attempt to) discern whether there was a connection. There was not. No such overlap in behaviour exists between David Gerard and JulDes or David Gerard and you. Regards, AGK [] 16:10, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Overlap in behavior? I fixed what JulDes created. One can also construct "overlap" in behavior with David Gerard. He edited the two pages too. But there are certainly also differences, since he made the unsourced claim "apparent vanity article", something JulDes and me did not. Seems David Gerard either has limited knowledge, a hidden agenda or simply assumed bad faith on the part of JulDes. TZ master (talk) 19:56, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Could an admin close an article RFC, please?[edit]

Resolved

The RfC at Talk:1948_Arab–Israeli_War#Balance_in_the_Lead_to_the_1948_Arab.E2.80.93Israeli_War.E2.80.8E has been open just under a month, hasn't had new participants or arguments in a while, seems to have found a clear consensus (even if I, a participant, do say so myself) but feelings are being hurt in the continued discussion. Could an admin read the consensus, and close the RfC, please? Thanks. BTW, the point in discussion is very much part of the Arab/Israeli conflict, so wearing a bulletproof vest is recommended. --GRuban (talk) 13:20, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Done.  Sandstein  18:50, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Shukran-Toda! :-) --GRuban (talk) 19:24, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Request for lifting of GA topic ban[edit]

Discussion moved to WP:AN

Since the 18th April 2011, I was given a topic ban [92] from the good article process on Wikipedia for nominating and reviewing articles with little understanding of GA policies, and furthermore repeating them when I had been told not to do so. I was also blocked, [93], for a week, as a harsh little reminder to abide by the rules; this block was ended early because I accepted mentorship from User:Worm That Turned. Since then I have been editing in almost every other area of the wiki, from article creation and deletion, from userboxes, through RfA and DYK. I also regularly help out at the help desk, and do a regular vandalism patrol. So this shows that I can, and have, kept my nose out of GA for six months and avoided further blocking. I have been in a few scrapes since then, including a misunderstanding of AfD closures and copyright issues.

I am here now to ask for a lifting of that GA topic ban. This does not mean that the second it is lifted I will run around crazily nominating or reviewing with no respect for any guidelines; I am just asking so that if, at anytime in the future, I feel any need to, for instance one of my articles I have created could be good enough to take a review. I have also spent the six months looking at the GA process, looking at nominations, reviews, the criteria, rules, policies, guidelines etc, and promise on my not-currently-blocked user account's life to abide by them.

You may also wish to review my contributions, and read the following links. My editor review, My contributions, [94], [95], [96], and especially here. Thanks, Rcsprinter (talk to me) 16:51, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Did you run this by your mentor first? If so, what is his opinion of this request? 28bytes (talk) 17:21, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
He didn't, although he has asked Worm, myself, the administrator who blocked him, and the administrator who imposed the ban, to comment here. Worm takes the view that Rcsprinter has completed his mentorship so he's not technically Rcsprinter's mentor any more, although he's still happy to offer advice where necessary (and I think he intends to comment on this request in due course.) --Demiurge1000 (talk) 17:28, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Sorry, I was trying to decide if I should comment here or move it to AN, since it's not really an incident. Anyway, comment here - Demiurge has correctly summed up my opinion, I "released" Rcsprinter back into the wild back in July, and I think it's commendable that he waited until now to put forward a request to have the topic ban lifted. He's come on a very long way since April (when he'd only been around a few months and made a couple of thousand edits) - to be a mature editor with over 11k edits under his belt. Yes, he made mistakes in the past and I'm sure he'll make them in the future, but I'd trust him to be able to good article reviews. I guess this request is largely to show the community has restored their trust him, and I'd like to see that happen. As such, I'd Support lifting the topic ban. WormTT · (talk) 17:37, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
The copyright discussion on his talk page worries me a bit, to be honest. I haven't done any GA reviews myself, but I would think a solid grasp of the copyright policies would be a prerequisite to useful participation there, wouldn't it? 28bytes (talk) 18:03, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Indeed, it's part of 1(a) of the criteria. However, I am confident Rcsprinter does understand copyright policies - he just prioritizes them incorrectly. Demiurge1000 and I are working on encouraging him to remember that copyright is something that is essential to all parts of wikipedia, at all times, and even if an article needs improving, a copyvio is not the way to do it. It may not have been the best time to put this request up, based on those discussions and there's only one person who can tell you why he decided to put it up now. WormTT · (talk) 18:10, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Per 28bytes, I have concerns about the Copyright issues as well as his recent issues with non-Admin AfD closures (particularly related to his reasoning for closure as it would relate to his reasoning when undertaking a GA review) , at this time I'd support a relaxation allowing him to nominate his own articles but would opppose allowing him to nominate articles to which he isn't the primary contributor or undertaking reviews of GA candidates until such time as he has some at least some successful nominations of his own articles to show an understanding of the criteria. This seems to be in line with the reasons he wishes to have the ban lifted and would demonstrate good faith both by him, and in him. Stuart.Jamieson (talk) 18:27, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
I think this is a good compromise; allow nominations, and if that goes well, expand it to reviews. (The "trial review" idea below also seems like it's worth trying.) 28bytes (talk) 19:08, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
  • I'm a little hesitant to support on a whim. Can we just ignore the ban for a minute and have them perform one GA review to demonstrate their competency? If it's fine, I'll fully support and I'm sure everyone else will. If (worst case) they somehow screw up, I'll be happy to simply step in and complete the review for them (I've done so in the past), and decide whether to oppose from there. Swarm 18:34, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
    I think Swarm's proposal is reasonable, support suspending the ban to allow one GA review, and reopen discussion upon completion. Monty845 18:42, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Rcsprinter123 asked me to comment here. Because the ban was imposed as a result of the community finding that Rcsprinter123 lacked the understanding of the GA process and criteria that is necessary to participate usefully in GA work, I think that a convincing demonstration how this has now changed would need to be part of any request to lift the ban. As no such demonstration is given here, I cannot support the request at this time. The proposal of allowing a trial review, above, seems reasonable.  Sandstein  18:43, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
  • The proposal to allow RCSprinter123 to nominate his own articles for GA should be allowed. As for reviewing others articles, the allowance of a one artice trial is reasonable, but another editor should also give a second opinion on the review. If this proves successful, then maybe a few more articles could be reviewed under the same conditions before a request to release this editor from the restriction can be allowed. Mjroots (talk) 19:05, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
I have reservations based on very recent issues brought up on Rcsprinter123's talkpage (for some reason spread through 3 different talkpage archives). I'm not convinced he fully understands the seriousness of copyright issues, purely because these problems have only been in the last week, and I'd like to see positive edits in that area over a longer period. I commend his recent work to clear up problems that have come to light. The AFD problems seem to indicate that he still maybe needs to slow down a little and listen a bit more when he does get into "scrapes". He doesn't always respond when legitimate issues are brought to his talkpage; indeed he has no obligation to, but communication is an important part of GA. I would completely oppose a lift of the ban on reviewing GAs at this time, unless there is compelling evidence that he is able to do so competently. I don't have a problem with him nominating articles at GA, and getting some articles through the GA process could be a good way for him to learn the ropes. --BelovedFreak 19:09, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Possible legal threat[edit]

Resolved: User blocked indefinitely for legal threats

Sigh...you know it's a bad day when you have to open 2 ANI threads. Could someone please look at User talk:Lovelightlaugh, and review the comment I posted there, which was copied from an email sent to me by that user? I believe it could be a legal threat, and the fact that the user refused to withdraw it ("I sincerely do not know what I will choose to do but will base my decisions of whether this is fairly addressed based on all that which was discussed. I have the right to choose based on fairness, equality, being in the know of what I am making my choices based on. "). This is regarding the article Anastasia Fontaines which I deleted under A7. If anyone thinks that deletion was wrong and/or I'm completely misreacting to the whole situation, feel free to undelete and or trout me w/o asking. I'm off for a bit. Qwyrxian (talk) 07:20, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

You asked him to clarify after advising him that it was perceived as a threat and that the threat would lead to blocking. User explicitly refused to clarify and reiterated a specific condition required to satisfy him, which appears to reinforce that he is still threatening the legal alternative if he does not get his way. Indef-blocked. I left his talk-page unlocked for now should he choose to clarify an intent not to go legal as part of an unblock request. DMacks (talk) 07:34, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
How could you delete an article on a woman responsible for undying wisdom such as "If you take the time to look, you may find that somewhere next to every joke lies the truth." And there's more where that came from... [97]. Paul B (talk) 09:42, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Yes cartooney threats are bad but IMHO the article in question wasn't an A7 candidate. The text Some of Anastasia's works include the award nominated Comcast Cranky commercial, the controversial "Viva Viagra and her ensemble lead role as Ms. Dora in cult film Director Gregory Hatanaka film Violent Blue is a credible assertion of significance. This should have gone to AFD. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 13:14, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

I agree 100% with the NLT block, but I also have to agree with Ron that AfD might have been more appropriate here. This seems to be a case where the subject isn't notable but the article does make a credible assertion of importance. 28bytes (talk) 16:30, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
I, too, was on the border as to whether there was a credible claim of importance. There was no solid info about the film, and so wasn't sure if it was a sufficient info for starring in that movie to be "important". In fact, I explained to Lovelightlaugh (by email, because that was how xe was communicating with me) that if we could show that the movie was notable, then that would be sufficient to keep the article past speedy deletion, but would still likely end with the person's article being deleted by AfD (I ran a WP:BEFORE search myself). The editor even gave me enough info by email to make the me think the movie is notable enough for an article, and I encouraged xyr to write it. So, given the comments here, I'll go ahead and undelete the article on the actress and take it to AfD; maybe someone else can find some news articles about her that I couldn't find. Qwyrxian (talk) 23:40, 3 October 2011 (UTC)
I agree that IoS is "borderline". The "cult film" Violent Blue she stars in doesn't have an article but the director does and so does one of his other movies. It may be that the movie is indeed notable but nobody has bothered to write an article about it yet. Notability is not inherited but "importance or significance" can be in some cases. However, it may also be that neither the director nor the other movie is notable but nobody has bothered to nominate them for deletion yet. --Ron Ritzman (talk) 13:09, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Ironically, punishing someone, or threatening to punish someone, because they have threatened you (or Wikipedia) with legal action is criminally unlawful (obstruction of justice, contempt of court, etc) in most Western countries. I'm rather surprised that such a policy exists, let alone is enforced so ruthlessly. I have no comment on the present case itself. Deterence Talk 09:02, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Blocks aren't punitive, they're preventative. In the case of the WP:NLT policy, the rationale is explained on the page. Absconded Northerner (talk) 09:17, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Yeah, and being locked in a prison cell is not punitive, it's preventative ;-) Deterence Talk 09:19, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
It certainly prevents that prisoner from repeating the acts that got him in prison in the first place.—Ryūlóng (竜龙) 09:20, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
You know, Deterence, if you don't actually understand a policy or if you lack perspective -- and characterizing being barred from a private website as a "punishment" certainly demonstrates that -- perhaps you should be less free with the advice. You have less than 600 edits and yet here you are all over this page giving advice. Or, I should say, TRYING to give advice. Not the best approach. --Calton | Talk 13:03, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Calton, I casually gave an accurate legal observation as I was passing through. Which was significantly more constructive that your patronising and uncivil use of a ruler to measure our contributions. Deterence Talk 20:06, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
That's a strange new meaning of "accurate" I was previously unaware of. You see, "accurate" implies that the words were not only factual, but have some relation to the topic under discussion. Your comments didn't have the slightest relevance -- making them not in the bit constructive -- and hence my correction intended to discourage even more casual and uninformed commentary from you was perfectly constructive. If you don't know what you're talking about and don't want to take the time to find out, you shouldn't comment: THAT is constructive advice. At least one long-term contributor was barred by ArbCom from commenting here after a long series of uninformed responses were deemed disruptive. Yours can be excused because you're new, but that defense isn't going to last all that long. --Calton | Talk 22:06, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
Sorry to butt in, was looking for my case. Deterence, you are not correct. Businesses have a right to admit or deny admittance for any reason what so ever, even if a person has a purchased ticket for entry. Its English common law and possibly dates all the way to Roman times. Today the only exception is the Federal discrimination laws against race, sex, religion, etc. US Supreme Court ruled on this in 1912, feel free to read, its 2 pages long Marrone v. Wash. Jockey Club, 227 U.S. 633, 636 (1912).
Subsequently this ruling was reaffirmed by every single Federal district, and state courts for the last 100 years, and was last used in March 2011, by Senior Judge Roger L. Hunt of Nevada District Federal Court. In the case (Ernest J. Franceschi, Jr v. Harrah's Entertainment), a card counter sued to get into a casino that mailed him an invitation. Judge Hunt could have used specific laws aimed at excluding card counters, but instead he went back to the 1912 SC decision and as he wrote in the opinion "At common law, a proprietor of a privately-owned entertainment establishment may exclude whomever he wishes for any reason, or for no reason whatsoever. Marrone v. Wash. Jockey Club, 227 U.S. 633, 636 (1912). In addition, Nevada and California courts have long since established that the "right to exclude others" is a "fundamental element of private property ownership."" (quote i used from section: Discussion-A-1 of the above link). Please do not take this as a legal opinion or I will have to bill you. ;) Cheers! Meishern (talk) 01:06, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
This all seems like a tangent to me, but businesses in California cannot necessarily exclude customers from entry based on the principle articulated in Allred v. Harris (the case cited in the Nevada federal case). Allred involved the intersection between picketing on private property, trespass, and the first amendment. California businesses are not allowed to discriminate on many bases (far more than the federal bases) and therefore can't "exclude" people from patronizing their business on any of thoses bases. See Unruh Civil Rights Act. And, naturally, each state in the U.S. is different.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:22, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
  • I'm not sure how my casual comment came to this. --Calton, all I am seeing in your "constructive advice" is a whole lot of argumentum ad hominem - four of the six sentences in your last post (above) began with the words "you" or "your", and one of the remain two was nothing short of a threat to have me "barred", (for what, I'm not the least bit sure.) And you didn't even try to show how I am wrong or how you are right. Constructive?
  • Meishern, my comment clearly referred to "most Western countries". In most Western countries, deliberately harming someone who has taken legitimate legal action against you, solely to influence their willingness to take that legal action against you, is considered an attempt to subvert their right to seek justice before the courts. Such behaviour is described in many ways, and in many languages, but include variations of "contempt of court" or "obstruction of justice". I'm not the least bit surprised that the right to exclude patrons for (not quite) any reason is significantly stronger in the United States, where private property rights are considerably more entrenched into the legal system, but, I do remind you that most Western countries lie outside the borders of the USA. Deterence Talk 05:14, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
  • You're misreading WP:NLT. The way I understand it, the point of the policy is not to "influence their willingness to take that legal action against [Wikipedia]". It's meant to avoid disruption and chilling effects on other editors while legal action is in progress. Think of it this way: if you worked for a newspaper, and filed a suit against them, you'd no doubt be put on "indefinite leave" while the suit was in progress, to avoid disruption in the workplace and to avoid "poisoning the well" through your actions potentially influencing the newspaper's position. Same thing here. - The Bushranger One ping only 09:09, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
  • The Bushranger, I'm not sure your analogy is comparable. If the "indefinite leave" is unpaid, then, most Employment Court jurisdictions would tear the employer a new one for placing the employee under such economic duress while the case remains sub judice (it may be different in the USA, but here in New Zealand the Employment Court would have zero patience for such coercive conduct by an employer). If the "indefinite leave" is paid leave, then the employee is still receiving the predominant benefit (an income) of his/her relationship with their employer. Is a blocked editor still receiving the predominant benefit of Wikipedia? I guess that depends on whether the predominant benefit received from Wikipedia by the blocked editor is merely the freedom to read Wikipedia articles or whether it is the ability to interact with, and contribute to, Wikipedia and its community. Deterence Talk 10:30, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Isn't this now getting a bit off topic? What it is analagous to is irrelevant. Wikipedia has a NLT policy that we all abide by. Anyone making a legal threat is blocked until such time as the legal threat is removed or legal action is ended. If there's some misgivings about how the policy is worded, the Village Pump is that-a-way. --Blackmane (talk) 10:56, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Blackmane, we're just shooting the breeze at the water cooler. Deterence Talk 11:01, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
  • You are not just shooting the breeze Deterence, when you make statements such as "punishing someone, or threatening to punish someone, because they have threatened you with legal action is criminally unlawful in most Western countries." That statement is false. Thus you are attempting to influence an Administrative board decision by providing non factual, false information and abstract opinions without anything factual to back up those statements. It is not criminally unlawful in all Western countries for a private business to bar entry to a visitor who threatened to sue them (with the only exceptions being cases covering extremely rare need based (not based on want) circumstances). Wikipedia does not employ this particular editor (no employer/employee laws involved) nor is it the editors landlord (tenant/landlord laws), nor is there a signed contract between the parties. If you go to a New Zeland restaurant and tell the owner that you will sue them, based on your statement, the restaurant must continue to admit you, and can not ask you to leave, nor bar your future entry and if they do, there will be a criminal case filed against the restaurant by law enforcement? The restaurant is under no obligation to feed you. They will bar your entry if you threaten a lawsuit as their legal adviser will ask them to do, as a preventive measure from you possibly planting evidence, influencing witnesses and customers, and creating additional incidents to back up your original claims. NZ legal system is also based on English common laws as is the US, which value property rights. Its not a right but a privilege to edit on Wikipedia, just as it is a privilege to eat at a privately owned NZ restaurant and not a right. If you want to be helpful, use facts backed up by references as I have above, otherwise you are the one who is attempting to obstruct justice by providing false information (even if you believe it to be true). Cheers! Meishern (talk) 10:53, 6 October 2011 (UTC)
Which is actually why we have to block this user. We have a policy that is blind to the editor's membership in any group. If you make a legal threat against anyone in the community, you are not allowed to edit until the legal issue is resolved, or the threat is rescinded. The policy is simple, and is based on the first amendment right to free association, and does not take into account anything except the presence of a threat. The easiest way to run afoul of the law is to take into account an editor's race, religion, sex, perceived sexual orientation, veteran's status, marital status, creed, national origin, immigrant status, etc. etc. when applying these blocks. The fact that we routinely and consistently apply the rule is actually the key to legal protection. We don't discriminate. We are not required to provide full access to anyone, and nobody but Jimbo Wales and a select few others have it. All access is granted based on a member's actions, and by applying the rules consistently, we protect ourself from legal claims that we deny access because of prejudice. VanIsaacWScontribs 11:35, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
I know this has been resolved now, but is it worth just mentioning that although Jimbo does have full access, that doesn't exclude him from the NLT process - it could be applied to him as well as anybody else; hence no discrimination. a_man_alone (talk) 11:22, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Good point. I was actually simply referring to the "founder" permission flag. Every member of the community has access that is a subset of Jimbo's access, and the amount of that access is dependent on your behaviour on-wiki. If you don't follow the rules and decide to act in ways that are contrary to the health of the community, then your access will be limited to simply viewing content. The fact that we have decided to grant greater access to just anyone who walks in the door does not change the fact that we retain the right to protect our community from those who harm it. It's analogous to refusing entry into your store for shoplifting, except we still let those people view the merchandise from the street. VanIsaacWScontribs 01:17, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Possible Legal Threat[edit]

Jonathon Sharkey, who's primary account User: Jonathon The Impaler has been blocked in the past for making legal threats, was later unblocked after recounting his legal threats. Now, however, it looks as if Jonathon has returned to his old litigious ways, according to this letter he wrote to the POW Network:

"Wikipedia, which should be pulled down, already posted your BS lies - I will thank you for this. As you can see, they questioned my ever being in the Army. At least you helped with that. Thank you. My advise to you is, check with your attorneys, and ask them do they think you will win a Libel Per Se lawsuit. If they say yes, keep your stuff up about me. If they don't, you better recant and take it down."

That sure sounds like a NLT violation to me. Should we block Jonathon the Impaler again? Difluoroethene (talk) 22:39, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

As I read that legal threat, it was directed at the source, and not at Wikipedia or any contributor. Why does that justify action? Monty845 22:49, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Isn't the phrase "...which should be pulled down" a veiled legal threat? Difluoroethene (talk) 23:20, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
I read the phrase as an expression of disgust with Wikipedia, but not a legal threat. Monty845 23:29, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
He isn't even making these comments on Wikipedia. How would the administrators even take action against him? Alpha_Quadrant (talk) 00:05, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
As Alpha Quadrant brought up, these threats were not actually made on Wikipedia. Is this in violation of WP:LEGAL or not? – Richard BB 00:14, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
He isn't threatening Wikipedia, just the POW network. On that note, however, I don't think we should be using the POW network as a source for a clearly controversial statement about a living (... err ... undead?) person. I think we need to remove that claim until a more reliable source has published it; a newspaper, for example. --GRuban (talk) 00:53, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
Take a look at Talk:Jonathon_Sharkey#Ph.D._Claims. Sharkey just e-mailed William S. Saturn and told him that Wikipedia had a "legal obligation" to post what Sharkey wants us to post. If that isn't a legal threat, I don't know what is. Difluoroethene (talk) 02:06, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
Take a look at WP:DOLT. This is exactly what it is about. Sharkey is not acting as an editor, but as someone rightly concerned about his reputation. Give him a break. "Don't let policies like no vandalism and no legal threats lead to your editing cluelessly and adversely affecting some innocent person's life by your thoughtless action. Wikipedia has real life consequences; Wikipedia is not a video game." We don't have a legal obligation to write about his PhD, but that's beside the point, we do have a policy obligation not to write that he lied about it without truly excellent sources. I'm going to remove that poorly sourced highly controversial claim from the article per WP:BLP. I haven't done that often, but this is clearly called for. Don't restore it without a better source, please. As a side effect that should make the legal threats issue irrelevant, but that's not the point. --GRuban (talk) 02:27, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
  • For what its worth (which given WP:OR isn't much, true), but I have been involved in military imposter investigations in the past, and the POW Network is highly regarded in this area. I'm looking now to see if their exposure work was ever covered by something that may pass a reliable source. Tarc (talk) 11:08, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Possible Bambifan sock[edit]

Resolved: Sock blocked by User:Zzuuzz

Saw this new editor appear and start editing some of the more common target articles, such as The Rescuers and The Rescuers Down Under. At Rescuers Down Under, this editor specifically undid changes made just before by an anon IP. This is a pattern that Bambifan101 has exhibited in recent attacks, as well. I'm posting notices on both the IP and the editor's pages. --McDoobAU93 04:25, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

I think that you are correct McDoob. A quick looks that this pages history [98] shows an edit made by an IP from Alabama here [99] that had a spelling error that was corrected by Victorious fan 2011 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) a couple minutes later. That combined with the redirecting of pages that did not exist looks to be an attempt to get enough edits in to be autocomfirmed and that is the kind of thing that Bambifan has done in the past. Hopefully your quick notification will nip this in the bud before things get out of hand. MarnetteD | Talk 04:49, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
Hi. It's not necessary to post on every help desk or noticeboard. Please report any strong suspicions of sockpuppetry at WP:SPI. Thanks. --Kudpung กุดผึ้ง (talk) 04:55, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
First there is no reason to have removed my post. Second The only noticeboard that McDoob has posted this at is this one. Most importantly BambiFan is a long term problem who is also banned by the community. Action to stop this person from editing should occur ASAP, thus, reporting it here is just as viable an option as SPI and, experience shows, is often much quicker. MarnetteD | Talk 04:59, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
(e/c) Per WP:LTA/BF101, new abuse actions are to be reported here. If that is not the case, then I'll make sure to edit the long-term abuse report for BF101 accordingly. This was the first noticeboard at which I posted this notice, with the new SPI case being the second. Need to go post the SPI notices on the two suspected sock accounts. --McDoobAU93 05:01, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
Someone needs to mail Bambifan a gift box containing a boxing glove mounted on a spring. Night Ranger (talk) 13:17, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
Is there some reason that no admin action has taken place since this thread was started last night (my time.) Both Victorious fan 2011 and this IP 12.171.79.130 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) from Alabama have continued to edit in an unproductive manner. Since the WP:LTA/BF101 specifically states (in red letters) that editing by socks of this banned editor are to be reported here it would be nice if some response from an admin would occur either here or at the SPI filed by McDoobAU93. Thanks ahead of time for looking into this and for any action that you can take. MarnetteD | Talk 15:07, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
Usually the lack of response simply means there's nothing to respond to. With an open SPI, there's really nothing for this board to add. SPI can take a day or so, so just be patient. If you see more out-of-bounds editing by this editor, please post the diffs - if the SPI is negative, we'll still have a record of what's going on, and it might invite some more commentary.. VanIsaacWScontribs 16:48, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

─────────────────He's back. This needs to be taken care of as soon as possible. --McDoobAU93 19:39, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

More proof, as he's attempting to call out his own socks, per his M.O. Immediate assistance requested. --McDoobAU93 19:45, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
Perhaps you all haven't been around long enough. Bambifan is a long term problem who has been banned by the community. As stated at WP:BANNED "Accounts which are reincarnations (sockpuppets) of banned users may be blocked as soon as it's obvious who they are". We have given you the examples of the editing patterns that prove that this is the return of BambiFan. All you have to do is click on the contributions links that I have provided as every single edit is an example of "out-of-bounds" editing. Swift action usually makes him go away for a time whereas sitting around waiting for the process to play itself out simply encourages him to edit further and create more socks. That is one of the reasons that WP:LTA/BF101 (has anyone actually read this yet?) tells us to come here to report him when we see his kind of activity start up so that swift action will occur. Among the current nonsense occuring is his tagging of IPs from states other than Alabama as Bambifan socks. AGF is not just for newbies and you might trust editors who have been dealing with this for a number of years to know what they are doing. MarnetteD | Talk 19:53, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
And now [100] he is requesting a block. Could someone please fulfill that request so that the rest of us can get back to the editing that we want to do? MarnetteD | Talk 19:55, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

──────────FINALLY the sock's been blocked. Will update the long-term abuse report accordingly. --McDoobAU93 20:01, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

(edit conflict)My thanks to User:zzuuzz for blocking this pest. The last half hour of nonsense could have been avoided with some response to our concerns yesterday. MarnetteD | Talk 20:04, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Personal attacks & edit-warring[edit]

Resolved: Both principals blocked 72h by TParis for edit warring. Alan the Roving Ambassador (User:N5iln) (talk) 20:03, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Reporting this because I'm starting to lose my temper and I know this is an edit-war waiting to happen. I really don't know what more to say to User:Timbouctou. I used to think this was a case of antagonism towards myself solely, so a while ago I tried to settle any bad blood that might exist between us [101], but I'm starting to think this is more of a general behavioral issue. The fella arrives on the Social Democratic Party of Croatia article, removes perfectly correct and valid infobox entries without discussion or consensus, declaring that they "don't add anything valuable to the article" [102], and then just continues to revert-war to no end until his (new) version is on top [103][104][105]. He demands that I show a reason to oppose his removal of (undisputedly) valid, accurate, and quite certainly related information from articles, throwing-in a few unprovoked PAs into the pot [106]:

I guess the question is whether the "audience" will find my rants interesting. --DIREKTOR (TALK) 16:30, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I used the f adjective because I was annoyed by your crap. You posted two posts on article talk page (after I started the discussion) without offering any argument whatsoever for keeping redundant crap in the party infobox and instead taking the ad hominem and patronizing route just telling me like a broken narcissistic robot with WP:OWN problems that you are that "this is not for me to pass judgement on" and that "I do not get to remove infobox parameters simply because I myself judge they add nothing valuable to the article". I invite any admin to take a look at the talk page and see if they can detect a trace of an effort on DIREKTOR's part to even begin achieving consensus before he came running here.
And for the record - the "perfectly correct and valid infobox entries" also described as "valid, accurate, and quite certainly related information" consist of list of four standard party wings which pretty much any party has, none of which has an article on Wikipedia; plus his own little inventions of putting in current chairman's predecessor, insisting that the party's non-notable spokeswoman must be listed and insisting that the party must have two foundation dates (unsupported by any source). NONE of the "valid, and accurate" information was referenced, and NONE of it is notable. When asked to provide reasons for the inclusion of such unreferenced, non-notable crap, he simply reiterated that I don't get to decide about it. Lovely.Timbouctou (talk) 16:59, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
Yes, Timbouctou, unfortunately you do not get to unilaterally decide whether something is "non-notable crap" or not. And it is not. Making use of an infobox party wing entry to mention a party wing in an infobox is perfectly normal and notable information. But I guess since you've decided its "crap", its ok to revert-war to make sure the crap stays out. As for me, since I disagree I'll just take your "f adjectives" and be off then, shall I?
Can one really just edit-war and have his way? Or have people been doing things the hard way for the past couple years? --DIREKTOR (TALK) 17:30, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
You tell me. You've spent more time edit-warring on Wikipedia than Mick Jagger has fornicating with teenage girls. Did it work for you? Oh btw, define "unilaterally". You keep screaming how other people are doing stuff "unilaterally" but whenever someone asks you for any kind argument-based discussion you just turn to name-calling and distortions. You've currently written four (4) posts about this topic and NOT A SINGLE ONE HAS OFFERED ANYTHING OTHER THAN YOUR OWN OPINION as to why redundant crap that no other Croatian party has in their infobox needs to be in SDP article. I'll take a wild guess and assume that you won't offer anything new in posts that will surely follow. Timbouctou (talk) 17:44, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Comment Back to your corners, both of you. I just looked at the article, and I see absolutely no effort on the part of either of you to obtain consensus. What I DO see is that you're both at WP:3RR, and you're both way over the WP:CIVIL and WP:NPA lines. Seafood all around, with an admonishment to follow the dispute resolution procedures for what is clearly a heated content dispute. --Alan the Roving Ambassador (User:N5iln) (talk) 19:00, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Comment I have to agree with Alan above. I've read over the entire dispute in question and both of you seem to be unable to engage in anything resembling dispute resolution. Seriously, you are both long time editors and excellent contributors, you both should be able to show more ability to collaborate than this. Have you considered possibly taking this up a level? Perhaps informal mediation would be of help in this case? I have already read over the whole damn thing, so if either of you wanted to file and both parties agree, I would pick it up. Trusilver 19:52, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Blocked both editors There is some serious edit warring on both sides as well as personal attacks from Timbouctou. I blocked both for 72 hours as they both have previous blocks for edit warring.--v/r - TP 19:57, 8 October 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia is racist[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
Resolved: Noloop/Mindbunny is indefinitely banned --Jayron32 01:35, 9 October 2011 (UTC)

That's right, you read rightly, we're racist. Or at least most of us are. How do I know this? Because Noloop (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) told me so at Talk:Antisemitism (warning, wall of text, near the end of the post). And what makes us so racist? What vile, detestable racist acts have we committed? Why, we've got an article on antisemitism that makes the incredible claim that Holocaust denial is antisemitic. I know, I know; it's hard to believe but that's what the article says. If that doesn't shock you enough, would you believe that in his valiant, and so far unrewarded, effort to eliminate this calumny from our pages, the only response he's gotten has been repeated (although sometimes impatient) requests to explain what reliably sourced changes he'd like to make? Can you imagine the injustice of it all? On top of that, a number of editors have (I blush to say it) intimated that his only interest in the article is to troll the talk page and annoy other editors with long, pointless rants that go nowhere and can't possibly improve the encyclopedia.

Now I don't want to be unfair to my fellow editor, but it looks as though the stress of this has gotten to him as he seems to have violated WP:POINT by removing a few thousand bytes of text from Islamophobia based on an WP:OTHERCRAP argument. Check the edit summary wording not allowed in anti-Semitism, not allowed here. That sort of goes against WP:POINT, doesn't it? Now I know how trying it can be to edit here for someone who is right while everyone else is wrong, but he also, um, slipped a little bit and called not just the community, but a number of editors by name, racist just a few days ago. I think the continuous exposure to the racism here (everyone knows we're another Stormfront) may be getting to be too much for him.

Now, I was sort of hoping there was something we could do for Noloop to spare him any more of the cruel, unscrupulous, bigoted treatment he's been getting here and I got an idea while I was looking at his user page. If you look at this old version of his user page, he actually made an effort, about a year ago to leave Wikipedia forever by scrambling his password, but something must have gone wrong because he came back in August of this year. Since he's made it clear on a number of occasions how much he dislikes the place and how little it would bother him to be permanently unable to edit here, most recently in his post at the Antisemitism talk page linked above, do you think we could oblige him? I know he'd be a lot happier if we did, and so would everyone he interacts with here. (Note:relevant section at Talk:Antisemitism has been collapsed) Incidentally, his current user page mentions that he controls another account: Mindbunny (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log). I'm sure we wouldn't want him to be able to return under that account and be subjected to any more of the racist bigotry that's been directed at him until now.

Please! This editor needs our help! --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 08:02, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Noloop's first paragraph, regarding the encyclopedic way to discuss the anti-semitism inherent to Holocaust denial, is right smack on the money. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:21, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
(I read the section-header and knew what this was about... Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 08:19, 7 October 2011 (UTC))
Let me get this right. After narrowly escaping WP:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Noloop, Noloop came back on Mindbunny (talk · contribs) while evading questions about the connection. As Mindbunny they managed to accumulate a lengthy block log and ended up being indeffed. Then the indef somehow got lifted, somewhat inexplicably. (Jehochman wrote that "If Mindbunny pledges to avoid WP:POINT and WP:BATTLE behavior, and names a few articles they want to edit, I will reconsider my block.", but I see no pledge anywhere on that talk page.) Now they went back to Noloop...and now this thread. Did I get the history right? T. Canens (talk) 08:41, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Somewhere, don't remember which page or if it was an email, I receive an assurance and decided to give them another chance, which obviously has not worked out. Jehochman Talk 13:11, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
That'd be the accurate abstract to this academic paper, yes. You forgot self-admitted sock "Frogwaves" and the announcement to sock s'more though, so that's an A- Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 08:49, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
There's something that doesn't ring right here. Noloop's block log isn't the longest I've seen, but after starting a fresh on Mindbunny, they managed to accumulate twice as many blocks on that account, which was indef'd. That indef was then lifted and they're now allowed to go back to Noloop. Now, I know that having secondary accounts permitted as long as the two accounts do not work within the same sphere. However, judging by the contributions list, both accounts have been used to edit in the same area and been blocked for the same sort of behaviour in both accounts. This is a clear violation of WP:CLEANSTART, despite the connection between the two accounts being known. --Blackmane (talk) 09:10, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I have indef blocked Noloop. My reasoning is explained at his talk page[107]. As always, if there is consensus for an unblock or a shorter block, or some other problem with my block, feel free to revert or correct it. Fram (talk) 10:14, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Could we deal with Frogwaves (talk · contribs) first? that should be an easy call. And then it's on to Mindbunny. Nevermind... I see I'm late to the party... Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 11:12, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
Yes, those two alternative / older accounts are blocked as well, not because he did anything wrong with them now (he didn't use them recently), but because he isn't allowed to edit with those either while being blocked as Noloop. If there are other known accounts around, just let me know. Fram (talk) 11:21, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
I haven't looked in too much detail into the history of this, so will just make the general comment that a reasonably argued assertion that WP is biased, or even arguably racist - even if only due to systemic bias and its editor profile rather than deliberate malice on the part of individual editors - seems about as controversial to me as the assertion that most Holocaust denialism is antisemitic in origin or intent. Nor does it seem much of a reason to get upset, let alone kick off an ANI thread that now looks as if it will end in a ban. All I see here is the apparent use of a couple of accounts, a bit of edit-warring, a not-really-that-bad-relatively-speaking block record and utterly justifiable frustration with a lot of what passes for "editing" here. All the user seems to be doing, even on controversial pages, is asking for a bit of hedging and qualification when it comes to WP framing statements of interpretation as if they were definitive, uncontested fact. I know this is a variation on WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS, but I regularly see editors who've been here for years posting truly awful content across multiple pages, which falls marginally short of vandalism but which gets left here as WP record; I'd rather we looked more often at turfing those people out rather than those who take a bit of a stand on what they see as matters of principle. Having said that, the user in question may be happier, as they say, in not being here, whether that's forced or voluntary. N-HH talk/edits 18:00, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Propose community ban[edit]

Given this level of deceit, the unblocks/reblocks, past arbitration issues, and the abuse of alternate accounts while the original account was indeffed, I propose a community ban for Noloop. - Burpelson AFB 14:36, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Note: I'm not sure the part about abusing an alternate account while another was indeffed is right, but what did happen is egregious enough, regardless. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 15:17, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Support As nom. - Burpelson AFB 14:36, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Support - I guess sometimes sarcasm really is helpful. --Steven J. Anderson (talk) 14:45, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Make it so Choyoołʼįįhí:Seb az86556 > haneʼ 14:49, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Support - everybody deserves a second chance (and a third, and a fourth, and...), but eventually enough is enough. - The Bushranger One ping only 15:35, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Support per The Bushranger. It's gone on long enough. — Oli OR Pyfan! 15:38, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Support - user's net value to the project is a negative. One correction to the nominator's post though, Noloop wasn't indeffed when Mindbunny was being used...it was a botched attempt at a clean start. The community and Noloop would both do better if they parted ways. ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► 16:32, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Support - Off2riorob (talk) 16:33, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Support. Appears to be amply deserved. If I recall correctly, ArbCom has banned another user for making a career out of edits such as this. Have mörser, will travel (talk) 16:45, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Support And nothing of value will be lost. Wildthing61476 (talk) 16:47, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Support A net negative for the project Beyond My Ken (talk) 17:32, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Support Do it nao. Oh Have Morser, in case you didn't see the above bits, Noloop = Mindbunny. --Blackmane (talk) 17:35, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Support Per the above discussion, the above supporters, and common sense. Swarm 18:13, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Support - I have defended Mindbunny in the past over his/her complaints about being repeatedly asked whether they were Noloop, assuming good faith. Unfortunately, the creation of said account in a manner that seemed to easily avoid arbcom sanctions, along with the constant battleground mentality, lead me to conclude that the user is not a net benefit to the project right now. I'd be more than willing to consider an unban in the future, but now is not the time. Kansan (talk) 22:24, 7 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Support Disruptive and shows no evidence of plans to change. —Tom Morris (talk) 07:26, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
  • Oppose Sorry to interrupt the lynch mob at work, but someone needs to put the brake on this. There is nothing in this ANI report that warrants a ban or block, especially not the first cited diff, which simply shows, for the most part, the user perfectly reasonably arguing a point of policy/principle (correctly, as it happens) and which btw is far less of a "wall of text" than the first post here. The subject has not responded or been asked to respond (being randomly blocked doesn't help I suppose). If there is more or better evidence, bring it. And let the user have a say. N-HH talk/edits 16:33, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
    • First, I would recommend you use a less heated analogy, as "lynch mob" carries a very racial component in the US. Also, my vote is not based on this alone, which I agree is not actionable; but on the longer term concerns/questionable usage of multiple accounts alluded to above. Kansan (talk) 17:05, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
      • Sorry, that did occur to me after posting, especially given the topics at hand (it has far more general reference usually, especially in the UK .. and I can't find the strike option these days in the editing windows to cut it). Anyway, I get the multiple accounts point, but on what's here at ANI, the user seems to have been allowed them and been open about them - I don't see hard evidence of abuse of the accounts beyond each having block logs. I've got a block log, 100s of accounts have. All I see is a fairly combative nature and some - utterly accurate, in my view - criticism of WP. In response, this thread opens by citing that fairly harmless and mostly reasonable critical comment and then, at the top of this "ban" subsection, moves on to vague and unsupported accusations of "deceit" and "past arbitration issues", at which point everyone dives in to say "yes, block them, they're a bit of a nuisance". Not good. N-HH talk/edits 17:42, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
        • To strike out text, use the html strikethrough tags. With reference to the way Noloop/Mindbunny used their accounts, please refer to WP:CLEANSTART which explicit states that starting a new account is predicate on not returning to the same area of editing and continuing the behaviour that caused the issues in the first place. Noloop was the subject of an Arb Com case, which is generally the last resort to get an editor to straighten themselves out. If you go to WP:List of banned users you'll see a very large number of editors who have been banned for sustained levels of disruptive and tendentious editing, personal attacks, all of which Noloop/Mindbunny has been blocked for. --Blackmane (talk) 18:46, 8 October 2011 (UTC)
          • N-HH, the fact that I went on a Wikibreak for 6 months, came back, and my first reaction upon checking AN/I was "...oh, for...dive for the bunkers, it's another Mindbunny thread!" should be telling. - The Bushranger