Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive855

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User:Gtrbolivar and personal attacks[edit]

User:Gtrbolivar has made it a habit of attacking me personally and exhibiting an utter lack of civility. For example, here here here he was warned by an admin Even after the warning, he continued his personal attacks here and here

This is in addition to a continuing battleground mentality expressed overtly here: "I am going to fight this to the end". --Taivo (talk) 03:08, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

  • Support a block for persisting in disruptive behavior at WP:ANEW and elsewhere. Robert McClenon (talk) 03:23, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
  • Question - The edit warring appears to be within the scope of WP:AE due to WP:ARBMAC. Is it more appropriate to deal with this warring here, or at Arbitration Enforcement? Robert McClenon (talk) 03:23, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
    On my reading of it, yes, this would come under discretionary sanctions per WP:ARBMAC. Given this and the other discussion two topics down, I think there's an issue here that needs to be addressed. Lankiveil (speak to me) 08:36, 16 September 2014 (UTC).
There is no personal attack. It is my point of view, backed-up by evidence. I didn't call any names, I didn't say anything out of line. The ridiculous "battleground mentality" argument is a complete falsehood. He uses my words out of context and with malicious intent. I wrote this to support user Stevepeterson who had been attacked repeatedly with slanders and insults by Taivo and a supporter of his. The same attacks were directed to me also. Taivo has been called a vandal, a sockpuppeter and a biased editor by other users as you can see here Talk:Macedonia (ancient kingdom). He made this request to you with the sole purpose of silencing me. He wants me out of the picture, so he can sneak his pseudo-historic agenda into our project through the back door. He has commited numerous vandalisms and violations of both WP:Verifiability and Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources. For any further and more detailed explanations (about Taivo's behaviour and his false accusations), I am at your disposal. Gtrbolivar (talk) 03:33, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
Actually, Gtrbolivar, you are the one who called me a vandal and User:Stevepeterson's sockpuppetry accusation was proven false. And had you not restarted your personal attacks against me, I would never have brought this problem here. --Taivo (talk) 03:38, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
What makes Gtrbolivar's behavior frustrating is that I took a couple of days off from the article to collect my thoughts. During that time other editors calmly discussed the issues and started a simple consensus building process to solve the sticky issues. Then Gtrbolivar arrived and completely disrupted the process with a massive attack on myself and the other editors involved in the calm consideration of the article's first sentence. His battleground attitude was on full display as he posted reams of generally irrelevant and definitely repetitive data. --Taivo (talk) 03:54, 16 September 2014 (UTC)
I believe that Taivo initiated the personal attack. Taivo was upset with anyone trying to bring the article in its stable (2+ years) pro Taivo editwar format. I admit (and apologised for) not assuming good faith from him because what I saw is an editor who together with his supporters Luxure and Macedoniarulez was trying to impose Macedonian nationalism and ideas in-line with the ultra-nationalistic United Macedonia concept. Taivo has used insulting language (eg I have problem with Maths) against any users with different opinion, to such an extend that I had decided to quit editting. And regarding sockpupetry, it is not correct that it was proven false. The investigation was closed due to lack of evidence, this is not a proof that Luxure was not your sock-puppet. I can still identify behavioural similarities between you too eg in refactoring edits of other users Stevepeterson (talk) 11:26, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
An Australian editor is somehow trying to push a Macedonian POV? Hello? Have you seen my contributions? Have you seen Taivos ? I don't know how it can't be anymore clear to you that I am from Australia I edit predominately in the afternoon and evening (It's 7.42am here now) and most of the articles I edit are Australian, compared to Taivo. We live in opposite timezones, and I want proof on how I am a sockpuppet pushing a Macedonian POV. Is this user from Planet Earth? Luxure (talk) 21:44, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
Actually the personal attacks began with User:Stevepeterson after my first comments dealing with the non-Greek aspects of ancient Macedonia. He immediately began attacking my comments as somehow being focused on Slavic irredentism. He assumes that anyone who says something like "non-Greek" or "not entirely Greek" is a pro-Slavic extremist. Note his comment right above this. He 1) has zero evidence of sockpuppetry (although he accused everyone who disagreed with him of being one of my sockpuppets) and tons of counterevidence which he either doesn't understand or chooses to ignore, 2) zero evidence of "Macedonian nationalism" on my part despite the fact that there is ample evidence otherwise, 3) zero evidence of pushing a "United Macedonia" concept. That comment of his above is a perfect example of him not assuming good faith and pushing a personal attack. I did not report him because he says he apologized on my Talk Page. An apology means that you stop making the same personal attacks that you "apologized" for. I now doubt the sincerity of his apology. And his "refactoring" comment is laughable. That means that I sometimes add a colon in front of another editor's comment in order to improve readability. That's his evidence of sockpuppetry? --Taivo (talk) 22:15, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
I totally agree with Stevepeterson. Taivo and Luxure intiated everything. They attacked and insulted Stevepeterson and myself, in order to silence us and make us go away. In my opinion, Luxure is a sockpuppet but not Taivo's. He is possibly a sockpuppet of the Slav pseudo-nationalist Macedoniarulez, a user who has already admitted to socketpuppetry (!!!!!!) as you can see here [1] and here [2] and yet he is still allowed to vandalize our encyclopedia, harass its users and impose his pseudo-historic fairy tales. Don't forget that Luxure invited Macedoniarulez in his "consensus" hunt, despite the fact that he is a Slav pseudo-nationalist by his own admission. Luxure never said anything against Macedoniarulez, he never protested against his "arguments" and his outrageous attacks. He attacked me and Stevepeterson and called us "biased" and "nationalists" but he didn't say anything wrong against Macedoniarulez. He didn't condemn his nationalism and his biased POV opinions. I wonder, why is that? Anyway, everything is crystal clear. Luxure is a vandal, a possible puppet and a FYROM nationalist who works in collaboration with Macedoniarulez. Of course, they both support Taivo fanatically. Within the next days, I am initating a sockpuppet investigation for both Luxure and Macedoniarulez (a sockpuppet by his own admission). Stevepeterson, we can submit this report together.
In conclusion, I want to ask the admins: How can a sockpuppet like Macedoniarulez, who has admitted that he used multiple accounts in order to (quote) "support his country" [3][4] be allowed to still operate in wikipedia, vandalize the articles of the project and forward his pseudo-nationalistic fairy tales in our encyclopedia in collaboration with other possible sockpuppets of his? I would like a straight answer please. Gtrbolivar (talk) 02:42, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
You still have no idea what a sockpuppet is or how to identify one, User:Gtrbolivar. Are you actually trying to claim that User:Macedoniarulez created the sockpuppet User:Luxure in July of 2013 and edited nothing but Australia articles for over a year just so that he could use Luxure in the discussion at Macedonia (ancient kingdom) in the late summer of 2014? If you actually think that is possible, I have some oceanview property in Arizona that I'd like to sell you. --Taivo (talk) 04:38, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
If you do launch your bogus sockpuppetry accusation can I at least be notified this time? When it does get proven false, (and Macedonia has admitted to VANDALISM, not sockpuppetry) I know a good place out near Goulburn where you and Mr. Peterson can visit. Now that was a personal attack, and you dont like it do you? If I, in anyway, get in trouble for 'attacking' you with that statement, I will personally make sure that you are banned from Wikipedia and I will launch an Investigation of Sockpuppetry against for being the Master Puppeteer of User:AkiiraGhioni who mysteriously saw an editing comeback seemingly JUST to agree with your obliviously ignorant statements. What do you think Taivo? Let them taste their own medicine? Luxure (talk) 05:16, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Dear Taivo, your claim that you were not notified about your sockupetrty investigation is not accurate. I had several times warned you abut the investigation and soon after I initiated it, you referred to supportive comment (by DrK) in it, which is a proof that you were are aware of it and made me assume that I no longer have the duty to officially notify you. Also I still regret that I failed to assume good faith and I explained the reasons above: because the anti-hellenism camp was aggressively removing reliable sources proving that an Ancient Kingdom located in today's Northern Greece was once part of the Ancient Greek world. Majority of participants in the editwar under the anti-hellenism camp are openly supporters of the concept that Today's inhabitants of Northern Greece are ethnically unrelated to the region's ancient inhabitants and hence their land should be reclaimed by a country on the North which (according to them) is ethnically more closer related to. Users like User:Macedoniarulez and User: Luxure have openly supported such a "reclamation/unification"; they have expressed racist attitude against the Macedonians (Greeks) (even denying their right of self-determination) and you have been very supportive to them. Examples can be found even in this administrator's noticeboard: instead of trying to discourage their destructive behaviour: 1) you defend User:Macedoniarulez (an ultranationalist profound supporter of United Macedonia that dreams of an annexation of Northern Greece to the Republic of Macedonia) and his past sockpupetry case. 2) You defend Luxure and his refabrication of my commend ([[5]]), as an acceptable behaviour that aimed to increase readability of my text 3) you personally attack Gtrbolivar and his capacity to understand what sockpupetry is. You have been an restless and enthusiastic leader of this radical camp with dozens of reverts and attacks in your belt and this is the reason why I did not assume good faith. I admit that I have also (regretfully) attacked you and I have apologised for that but I see here that you have not improved your attitude towards me and other contributors who disagree with this ultranationalist anti-hellenism camp. Stevepeterson (talk) 00:15, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Wrong, User:Stevepeterson. You did not notify me of the sockpuppet investigation you initiated against me at the time that you initiated it on my Talk Page. This was the very first notification I got about it. You are required to notify the subject of the investigation at the moment that you initiate it, but you failed to do that. I was notified by a third party a few days after you initiated it. Just making threats on the article Talk Page does not qualify as notification. You failed to do your notification duty at the time you initiated the investigation. Me being aware of it through other avenues does not constitute you doing your duty to notify me. End of story.
And while you made an apology on my Talk Page, you continue to equate me with the Slavic camp despite the multiple number of times I have asked you to prove that I am a member of that point of view. You continue to assume that my comments about "non-Greek" and "not entirely Greek" equate to "Slavic". At least half of your comments both here and on the Talk Page equate to "Taivo is a Slavicist". Your half-hearted attempts at "clarification" or "apology" simply fall flat because you continue to make the same mistake that you supposedly apologized for. And your accusation that I am "anti-Hellenist" is utterly false. Not once have I advocated a removal of material of Greek connections anywhere else in the article. I have always and only advocated for removing the WP:POINTy word "Greek" in the first sentence and in the first sentence only. Your main problem throughout has been in your attempts to expand my comments to cover the entire article. Not once have you actually focused on the issue at hand.
Please point out one single, solitary place where I have defended the pro-Slavic extremism of User:Macedoniarulez. I have pointed out that User:Gtrbolivar's accusations of sockpuppetry are without merit, but that does not equate to a defense of his position vis a vis Macedonia (ancient kingdom). Indeed, if you actually examine the record, you will see that after you inserted the compromise wording into the article, I reverted his attempt to excise "at the periphery of the Greek world". Your assertion that I am a "leader of this radical camp" is utterly without merit and another assumption of bad faith on your part. If others agree with some of my arguments, that doesn't make me a "leader of radicals". Point out one single, solitary "radical" comment I've made. Not a single one because my entire focus has always been on keeping the first sentence from being unnecessarily WP:POINTy, not on changing a single word anywhere else in the article.
I will "improve my attitude toward you" once I see that you have stopped your personal attacks and assumptions of bad faith against me. You don't seem able to write a single comment without accusing me of being a "radical" or a "pro-Slavic" leader or wanting to remove all mention of ancient Macedonia's Greek connections throughout the article. Gtrbolivar's personal attacks and WP:BATTLEground attitude are the subject of this ANI and have been duly documented. He has been warned by an administrator to knock it off and that administrator has also said that a complaint against him based on WP:ARBMAC was warranted. If an ARBMAC complaint is filed, he might be subject to a topic ban. --Taivo (talk) 02:48, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
You indicated to me that you are aware of the investigation immediately after I initiated and 2 days before the first alleged notification first alleged notification. See below:
When an actual consensus has been reached and the change is the result of a lie, doesn't that call into question the actual stability of the edit? If you think I have a sockpuppet, then prove it. Perhaps you missed this comment on your bogus sock-puppet investigation... --Taivo (talk) 08:50, 1 September 2014 (UTC).
I have apologised for not assuming good faith and I have explained what made me lose faith, that you support (even led) an edit-war camp that removed valuable sources, made multiple reversions, and had radical contributors in the anti-greek camp openly expressing ultra-nationalist and racist options, people who you have appeared not to oppose (you came here to support Luxure) or discourage from performing their personal attacks and reversions. On the the hand I now understand (and because we later agreed on a compromise) that you might not share these radical ideas yourself entirely but you have not opposed them openly when expressed from members of the anti-hellenic camp that you supported enthusiastically. You supported the pillar of their nationalism and United Macedonia annexation concept by trying to prove that Ancient Macedonians have no ethnic relation with Ancient Greeks or the modern inhabitants of the region, that we should remove the term Ancient Greek so as not to POINT to the supporters of United Macedonia who obviously have their own reasons to edit an article about a kingdom located outside their borders, and at the same time you have several times used terms such as Greeks versus Macedonians instead of Greek-Macedonians versus Slavic-Macedonians hence denying the right of ethnically Greek inhabitants of Macedonia to be Macedonians and giving the Slav Macedonians the exclusive right on the use of the term Macedonia. So it was the combination of your biased positions namely a) that Ancient Macedonians were a different ethnic group from Ancient and/or Modern Greek inhabitants of the region b) today the term Macedonian should only refer to the residents of the Republic of Macedonia which located on the north of the ancient kingdom; these exactly are the pillars of the Macedonian nationalism and the pseudo-irredentist United Macedonia concept. I believe that I dont make any personal attack to you now, I just highlight that your behaviour is far from being unbiased and neutral and I explain why I (regretfully) failed to assume good faith on your intentions. I don't say that you are radical or that you have bad intentions yourself but perhaps you have been influenced by redicals like Luxure and Macedoniarulez Stevepeterson (talk) 04:44, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
You are still in denial that you failed to notify me on my own Talk Page of the sockpuppet investigation immediately after you filed it. All your claims that "I already knew about it" are simply rationalization of your own simple failure to notify me.
You can't even apologize without filling the "apology" with continuing failures to assume good faith and continuing personal attacks and aspersions. Please provide a single, solitary time when I promoted a "United Macedonia" or tried to change a single, solitary word of the article (outside the first sentence), which has ample detail about the precise relationship between the ancient Macedonian kingdom and the ancient Greek city-states. You are simply unable to accept the fact that reasonable scholars can disagree with your sincerely held belief system. Anyone who disagrees with you must be a "Slavic extremist". You fill your rants with totally unsubstantiated personal attacks and baseless aspersions of my motivations. You expand my simple goal of making only the first sentence of the article less WP:POINTy into an attack on the entire article and a pro-Slavic agenda of rewriting ancient Macedonia's relationship to ancient Greece. You cannot write a single comment without a personal attack against me. You are even obsessed enough with your anti-Slavic paranoia to claim that I came to this forum to support User:Luxure. Perhaps you are unable to read the fact that my complaint was posted before Luxure's was posted and that I didn't even mention Luxure in my complaint? I only mentioned User:Gtrbolivar's attacks against me. And your "proof" is that I didn't launch a personal attack against either User:Macedoniarulez or User:Luxure? Give me a break. Luxure wasn't even posting for a couple of weeks while you continued to attack my motivations. And Macedoniarulez's rants were so off the wall that they didn't need a reasoned response. Macedoniarulez's rants were evidence of his mindset and motivation, not mine. I simply find your continuing anti-Slavic paranoia troubling and your continuing attempts to cast aspersions on my comments and my motivations disgusting. You have no proof for any of your attacks--not for sockpuppetry, not for anti-Hellenic opinions, not for pro-Slavic radicalism, not for having radical members of the anti-Hellenic camp post anything, not for touching any detail of the article other than the first sentence. Each comment you post is nothing more than further rationalization and a further weak and groundless attempt to keep from taking responsibility for your own errors, failures, and personal attacks. --Taivo (talk) 05:30, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
I will repeat that I have never accused you for directly promoting United Macedonia but for expressing opinions support its ideological pillars. And this is evident from the fact that you are on the same edit-war camp with radicals such as Luxure and User:Macedoniarulez who believes in the annexation of Anc Macedonian territory by the Republic of Macedonia. I am sure that you have checked his profile that is so radical that perhaps could be investigated for possible links with terrorism, but regardless the fact that he is a profound supporter of an annexation idea of Greek, Bulgarian and Albanian Territories by the Republic of Macedonia, you still sympathise him and you even came here to support him: look at your post above:
You still have no idea what a sockpuppet is or how to identify one, User:Gtrbolivar. Are you actually trying to claim that User:Macedoniarulez created the sockpuppet User:Luxure in July of 2013 and edited nothing but Australia articles for over a year just so that he could use Luxure in the discussion at Macedonia (ancient kingdom) in the late summer of 2014? If you actually think that is possible, I have some oceanview property in Arizona that I'd like to sell you. --Taivo (talk) 04:38, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
And you haven't tried to bring any of these "reasonable scholars" who according to you prove that Ancient Macedonia was not part of the Ancient Greek Civilisation but instead you delete dozens of reliable sources that User:Gtrbolivar brought to prove the opposite. You don't assume good faith on me and you constantly personally attack me when eg you say that I am "obsessed with my anti-Slavic paranoia" which you find "troubling" and "disgusting" and that I dont "take responsibility for my own errors and failures". I believe that I have never attacked you (at least not without apologising), never expressed any anti-Slavic paranoia. I believe that Slavi Macedonians have the right to be called Macedonians but I am anti-nationalist and I am not interested if it comes from Greek Macedonians or Slavic Macedonians. Stevepeterson (talk) 06:24, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Boo! Did I scare you? Are you serious? Have you ever heard of Freedom of Speech? And please explain how I am a radical? You obviously haven't even had a look through my contribs. If you continue with your childish, defamatory, denigratory, disparaging, pejorative, misrepresentative, damaging, injurious, scurrilous, scandalous, poisonous, malicious, abusive and insulting behaviour, I will launch a complaint against you. YOU are the one being racist, claiming radical ideas. Stop now. I'd like to add that not "practically adopting" the Greek position does not mean the same thing as' "practically adopting" the ethnic Macedonian position Luxure (talk) 06:46, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
If freedom of speech for you means edit-waring WP articles and (refactoring) other contributors' edits to promote United Macedonia terrorist concepts, then continue your personal attacks to me and do report me to the administrators. I will be happy to leave wikipedia if they decide that I restrict your freedom of speech Stevepeterson (talk) 07:10, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

You are full of baloney, User:Stevepeterson. Look at the stupidity of your arguments:

  • "I have never accused you for directly promoting United Macedonia but for expressing opinions [sic] support its ideological pillars". That is a ridiculous comment. So just because I might happen to state a single view that matches an "ideological pillar" of some organization, that means that I support that organization? And what if that view happens to be right? Does that mean that I automatically accept the entire ideological structure of a group? If I express the view that the US should never have invaded Iraq in 2003, does that mean that I support the entire ideological platform of radical Islam because that is one of its ideological pillars? It's a stupid argument. Stop making it because it is a paranoid argument that means nothing. Unless you can prove that I support a "United Macedonia", then you are simply making a personal attack by even mentioning a single point of similarity between myself and a group that I have no association with. You are implying guilt by association.
  • "You still sympathise [sic] him (User:Macedoniarulez) and you even came here to support him:" Another personal attack. Just because I point out that User:Gtrbolivar has zero proof that Macedoniarulez is a sockpuppeteer doesn't mean that I support his radical views. Why would I even bother to look at his user page? I don't look at anyone's user page just because they make a comment on a Talk Page. And just because I don't support another user being bullied or railroaded by unwarranted sockpuppet investigations (as you tried to bully me), doesn't mean that I agree with their argument or point of view. I would defend you against a groundless sockpuppet accusation just as I defended Macedoniarulez against Gtrbolivar's charges. And I did not "come here to support him". I initiated this complaint because of User:Gtrbolivar's personal attacks against me. It had nothing to do with Macedoniarulez. Read the complaint.
  • "I believe that I have never attacked you (at least not without apologising), never expressed any anti-Slavic paranoia". Are you actually serious? Every time you comment about me here, you cannot write a single sentence until you start to groundlessly link my views with radical Slavic irredentism, the "United Macedonia" movement, and anti-Hellenic bias. Your apologies are always hollow because you turn around in the very next post and make the same attacks again. How many times have you now accused me of supporting or leading or having others make comments in support of anti-Hellenic, pro-Slavic, "United Macedonia", radical views? I can no longer count the times.

A simple question for you: When I started the discussion thread on the article's Talk Page called "Request for Comment 2" ([6]), why did I only notify two other editors? I notified User:Dr.K ([7]) and User:Future Perfect at Sunrise ([8]). Please prove to the world why these two editors would be considered to be part of my radical anti-Hellenic cabal? If you cannot, then I fully expect you to cease and desist in these groundless accusations of radical anti-Hellenism against me. --Taivo (talk) 07:23, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Ok Taivo thats enough. I have received so many attacks from Luxure and your good-self that I simply cant take any more. Just look at the conversations here and above, how many names your camp has called me, i count 20: full of baloney, paranoic, antislavic, racist, incapable of speaking english, ignorant, childish, defamatory, denigratory, disparaging, pejorative, misrepresentative, damaging, injurious, scurrilous, scandalous, poisonous, malicious, abusive and insulting. You wont hear from me for a while I think but I am surprised how you and Luxure have managed to turned yourselves into victims and no Administrator in this noticeboard has ever considered taking action to stop your continuous insulting. Stevepeterson (talk) 07:49, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
WP:POT, User:Stevepeterson. --Taivo (talk) 07:54, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Nobody wants to watch you guys hash out the same shit over and over for thousands words. Wait for someone to read the diffs. Honestly, you're all out of line in my eyes. 165.214.12.71 (talk) 18:49, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Internet Information Servers article[edit]

Hi.

I would like to request administrator intervention against User:Codename Lisa and User:FleetCommand against a series of edits.

diff

diff

diff

diff

diff

They elude discussion (WP:DISRUPTSIGNS point 5), make false allegations, make unclear and lame excuses to avoid adding negative statistics about the product and then criticize my intention (blaming me) of adding negative information to Microsoft products as if it's not allowed.

User:Codename Lisa meant to say that the user wanted to maintain the comparison between the 2 sources cited in this section cause she preferred it that way, however in the talk page the user never clearly claimed that despite my continuous attempts to get the answer and then the user left, after which I added my edits within a day.

What User:Codename Lisa meant to say was made clear by User:FleetCommand, I did respond to his comment, but his response was --

Too long; didn't read....

And he reverted my other edits without any reason or attempts to discuss. Then he claimed that I'm the one who's eluding a dispute resolution.

He issued me a warning which I don't fit into. I tried to talk in his talk page, but he again avoided discussion and removed my response with an excuse that it's a 'combative' message.

Both these users claim that I'm threating them by claiming that I'll warned to take administrative action, whereas this's not a threat at all.

User:Codename Lisa claims that I'm violating WP:SYNTH without quoting which of my lines violates which policy belonging to these guidlines. User:Codename Lisa claims that my edits violate WP:NOTSTATS cause they are not in context to the article, whereas the edits are directly related to the product.

The user calls my edits "nonsensical numbers" and when I claim which lines do not make sense, the user does not respond.

Then the user claims that my edits are contentious label, I responded relevant to the context but the user's response is --

Now, now! You are eluding main questions:...

Other false allegations include WP:IDONTHEAR and calling me that I'm 'denying it like a three-years-old'

Then after around 48 hours, User:FleetCommand dropped by and undid my edits without reason and mindless false allegations like

"User:DE logics isn't here to write an encyclopedia; he is here to propagate anti-Microsoft hatred and attack Wikipedia users." DE logics (talk) 04:12, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Hello. This is the accused #1, Codename Lisa. I've been absent since 15 September 2014 (three days ago) and now, I return and find myself in ANI. I can't complain.Face-wink.svg
Here is a summary of the incident, which DE logics haven't provided: On 13 September, I reverted this contribution by User:DE logics: Special:Diff/625339970/625356447. (Blanket revert) My concern was that this contribution added purely raw stats, having eliminated the existing context and providing no new one. This, I interpreted, was a violation of WP:NOTSTATS, which requires: "To provide encyclopedic value, data should be put in context with explanations referenced to independent sources." I set out to start a discussion at Talk:Internet Information Services § Usage statistics when I noticed existence of similar discussions in the talk page, dating back to 2011, between FleetCommand, Jasper Deng and DE logics (or his IP). As a result I invited the first three via a ping and retracted my WP:SYNTH-based objection which I had added in the edit summary.
DE logics resorted to a counter-revert before participating in the discussion and even then, he was not reading my messages and repeatedly asked the same thing even though I and another user had answered. Eventually, he did imply that his contribution is meant to expose something negative about Microsoft:

Ok, so as per your definition, "Netcraft shows a rising trend in market share for IIS, since 2012." and the whole of features section is not WP:PROMOTION, but anything negative is WP:NOTSTATS.

I sensed that somehow, he took what he added as an evidence of something negative about Microsoft but what? I could not say. (Perhaps he lives somewhere, where there is anti-China sentiments?) In fact, the first clear-cut sign confirming this suspicion is his opening statement above! Anyway, when I mentioned that all I see are some rising and falling numbers and WP:STATS requires a source interpreting them, he said:

Please don't explain to contributers what's right and what's wrong. We're not doing classes here. Anymore of this crap (which includes any more irrelevant responses from you) and I'll ask for Administrator intervention after again adding my edits.

At this point, I left; but it was clear as daylight that we had reached an impasse. The proper course of action for DE logics was to invoke an RFC or mediated dispute resolution, not another counter-revert and ANI. But please do talk to Fleet Command and Jasper Deng. Looking at the article protection log and dates in talk page, I feel that there is more history to this issue than I realize. A lot more.
Best regards,
Codename Lisa (talk) 08:56, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Hello. This is the accused #1, Codename Lisa. I've been absent since 15 September 2014 (three days ago) and now, I return and find myself in ANI. I can't complain.

You voluntarily left the discussion --

Therefore, I will henceforth refuse to participate in this discussion any further until the existence of a dispute is acknowledged.

Now for your other responses

My concern was that this contribution added purely raw stats

Off the diff that you pointed to, there are 13 numbers in there (including dates) and 126 words, and you claim those are raw stats? Besides what do you mean by processed stats?

having eliminated the existing context and providing no new one.

For something to be included in an article, the information should be relevant to it. In this, case both the sources provided information relevant to the article. What other context is needed for inclusion?
Yes, if you would've wanted the comparison to exist cause you prefer doing so, then I would've obliged, but you never claimed such a preference. Fleetcommander had to come and tell me that.

DE logics resorted to a counter-revert before participating in the discussion and even then, he was not reading my messages and repeatedly asked the same thing even though I and another user had answered.

Yeah that was because I didn't see you had started a discussion in the 1st place, so I did that.
Initially I missed out on a few of user:Codename Lisa's responses cause I was first focusing on her 'comparison' problem. But then later on I gave a full response.

Eventually, he did imply that his contribution is meant to expose something negative about Microsoft:

And I openly agreed --

Because Wikipedia does not forbid me to do so. Regardless of my intention, it does not break any rules to exclude from inclusion. My intention has nothing to do with you or Wikipedia. The extra information is.

Can you provide any guidelines which say I should not have an intention of exposing something negative to Microsoft?
Besides your statement violates WP:WIAPA

Using someone's affiliations as an ad hominem means of dismissing or discrediting their views

And the user has still not stopped doing this --

Looking at the article protection log and dates in talk page, I feel that there is more history to this issue than I realize. A lot more.

You're judging me based on my previous edits.

When I mentioned that all I see are some rising and falling numbers and WP:STATS requires a source interpreting them, he said:

That was a response to --

Aha! Right there. So, you actually are trying to display something negative after all, don't you?

That's why this exact statement is quoted before my response which currently Codename Lisa claims a response to --

when I mentioned that all I see are some rising and falling numbers and WP:STATS requires a source interpreting them

.
I responded to the nonsensical number question with --

From my, edits can you please quote lines which does not make sense

Which has been placed directly below the question.
Codename Lisa also claimed --

Even if they did, Wikipedia is not a place for publishing opinion. Only if a reliable source cares to explain exactly why we can reflect that review.

To which I responded --

When did I place my opinion in my edits? Can you please quote?

Which Codename Lisa has no response to yet. DE logics (talk) 16:04, 18 September 2014 (UTC)


DE logics, you might want to read WP:TLDR and maybe think about removing all this additional space in your report. Amortias (T)(C) 17:22, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
If we want the discussion short, it has to done in parts. One allegation at a time. As of newlines, do you want me to merge paragraphs or just remove the newlines? DE logics (talk) 18:10, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Uhh, yeah, but that's not how Wikipedia works. Look at all the other posts here on AN/I and curb you writing style to that, plaese. It makes it unbearable to lurk.98.93.219.65 (talk) 22:39, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Accusations of "vandalism", and disruptive editing across many articles[edit]

This is elevating to the level absurdity, at this point. I'm sure I'm going to boomeranged to pieces, but I'm just upset, so I'll air my grievances. I previously brought a complaint against Niele (talk · contribs) at this forum earlier in the week. That was unproductive, and hence I abandoned it in favour of a WP:DRN case. However, despite this, and despite being warned about the Eastern Europe discretionary sanctions, Niele has continued to disruptively edit across Ukrainian crisis-related articles. He constantly reverts edits by accusing people of "vandalism" and "PoV pushing" in edit summaries at every turn.[9][10][11] He previously derided me as a Marxist propaganda monger, which is something one can find out about at the last AN/I thread. He has again accused me of "agenda pushing", this time after I made a request for closure at WP:AN.[12] He has continued to attempt to right great wrongs across many articles, and has not listened to anyone.[13][14] His version of "consensus" appears to rely on whether people agree with him. At this point, no one has. I can frankly say that I believe that Niele is not here to build an encyclopaedia. Even after the last AN/I thread, where he was warned by Mr. Stradivarius not make personal attacks, even after he was warned about Eastern Europe discretionary sanctions, he continued this behaviour. In fact, he has escalated it. I suggest a topic ban, under the banner of the Eastern European discretionary sanctions, from Ukraine-crisis related articles. RGloucester 18:56, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

User RGloucester was warned about not starting edit wars, but he dit starts it again. I did not participate or react when he reverts al of my edits. He personaly theatend me with 'Eastern Europe discretionary sanctions' after previous episode. While this was not discussed but his personal choise. The Eastern Europe discretionary sanctions also count's for him and I ask that he is banned instead.

The past day he is completly dissecting the 'Russian military intervention in Ukraine'-page. A page that he doesn't wants to exist, like he didn't want the 'Russo-Ukrainian war'-page and the 'Russian invasian'-page (made by other wikipedia users. Clearing parts of the infobox, removing the internation reactions to a subpage of donbaswar, removing sources Russian unit's, the shelling by Russia over the border into Ukraine,... all in a POV-push to hide the participation of Russia in this war as much as possible and portraying this war as a internal Ukrainian war.

I ask that user RGloucester is banned on basis of Eastern Europe discretionary sanctions. because he is undoing the work of many wikipedians in a constant POV puch to hide sourced info. --Niele (talk) 19:40, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

From a non-admin/uninvolved user's prospective, RGloucester seems to have acted in good faith, bringing the matter to WP:DRN. In contrast, I concur that Niele has been warned about personal attacks and unfounded claims of vandalism, yet continues to accuse users of vandalism. Now I'm sure both parties have good intentions, but in my (non-admin) opinion, Niele needs to read WP:Vandalism, stop with the unfounded claims of vandalism, and constructively discuss these matters in order to reach consensus in this highly controversial topic rather than unilaterally decide that his way is right. As far as any administrative action that should or shouldn't take place, let the admins and the ArbCom decide that; I'm just a lowly Wikipedian. PCHS-NJROTC (Messages) 17:48, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

The original two articles (intervention) and (invasion) by Russia from wich the international reactions came, were not about a dombas war but about the military intervention/warconduct by Russia. Now these reactions are stuffed away under a page of the donbas-war claiming that it is only about the month august.--Niele (talk) 20:06, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

You neutrality is so great that you write about the 'Russian invasion in Ukraine' article (not written by me) things like: "If this article is going to stay, we might as well make it humorous."

As I tried to explaine you in the previous episode, this is disturbing to people and covering up a war is a sensitive thing. A war in wich 900 Ukrainian soldiers and 200-400 Russian soldiers died is not humorous or an absurd something and trying to hide it, is not respectfull to the people who died fighting it.--Niele (talk) 20:06, 14 September 2014 (UTC)

This is a poor venue for this type of complaint. I suggest filing this at WP:AE. A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 20:10, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
I would rather not be forced to carry on across many noticeboards. This is giving me enough of a headache already, and I believe user conduct can be evaluated here as well as it can there. RGloucester 20:12, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
(Non-administrator comment) There's serious merit in RGloucester's not wanting to post across boards. As it is, a DRN involving Niele has been closed recently with issues surrounding Niele's general approach to the project being deemed spurious. Dragging this from venue to venue is draining valuable administrator and contributor time and energy. I think the issue can, and should be, dealt with here rather than having to start all over again at ARBEE. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 23:54, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
No, I think this is wrong noticeboard for claims about alleged violations covered by Arbcom discretionary sanctions. Besides, our current vandalism instructions were written in such manner that contributors acting in a good faith may decide that removal of sourced text was vandalism. My very best wishes (talk) 13:14, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
This is the right board as much as any board is the right board. We are not a bureaucracy here, and I can tell that your comments are driven by a PoV rather than by any interest in the disruptive behaviour carried out by Niele. It has nothing to do with "violations of discretionary sanctions", which makes no sense. It has to do with an editor's disruptive behaviour and use of personal attacks. I suggested using those sanctions to remedy the situation, but I'm open to any solution suggest by an uninvolved party. RGloucester 17:53, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
You just made the same request about Niele - above on this noticeboard. It was not supported, and you closed it. Now, you repeated the same request here, and it was not supported again (no one reacted during many days). Therefore, I think the suggestion by A Quest For Knowledge was a good one. I think you should close this ANI request and either drop completely the issue (this is my recommendation!) or resubmit it to WP:AE.My very best wishes (talk) 19:25, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
It is not the "same request". He continued the behaviour across multiple pages despite being warned at that prior thread, and despite my starting of a DRN. I'm not going to ignore disruptive editing across multiple pages, and your attempt to make me go around in circles to different noticeboards is an example of the bureaucratic nonsense that we do not do here. Merely because people did not respond does not mean that they either support or oppose the behaviour of Niele. RGloucester 20:05, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

─────────────────The fact is that the editor in question is making personal attacks on more and more editors as a result of his/her WP:BATTLEGROUND approach. Until now, I have had no direct dealings with Neile. This was inevitably an 'only a matter of time' scenario for anyone editing on subject matter Neile works on. I, too, have now been swept into the conspiracy this editor perceives as existing. Arguing for keeping a WP:DPAGE as "Strong Keep Again, POV-deletion-campaign by a couple of users to remove and hide as much as possible of Russia's participation of the war it started against Ukraine. Entries keep being removed by same users claiming there are none..." is unacceptable tendentious editing. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 22:55, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

User:Taffe316[edit]

Editor blocked for one week. They are welcome to appeal the block or let it expire and come back with a much more positive and collaborative attitude. §FreeRangeFrogcroak 00:03, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Something needs to be done about this user. Just checking his talk page, shows he has a long history of edit warring and has already been blocked for 48 hours for this problem. Today it was a problem with ownership. I reverted one of his edits on the Mike Glennon article, explaining to him that it violated WP:peacock and WP:POV His responses: "See that entire 2013 season section? I wrote that. So all decide what's right, not you" and "I have more of a right to it than you, so if you don't like it, go cry to someone who cares". The user just doesn't seem to get it and It would be nice if something was done about it.--Yankees10 20:10, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

And now this.--Yankees10 20:58, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Recommend an indef for blanking out this section. A clear case of not being here to contribute to an encyclopedia. Robert McClenon (talk) 21:00, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Agreed. If that didn't make it clear, his comments make it clear that he isn't here to contribute constructively or to collaborate with others in any way. - Aoidh (talk) 21:12, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:AdamTayl's behaviour and personal attacks in edit summaries[edit]

This is regarding the behaviour displayed by User:AdamTayl. This editor constantly been updates article with unsourced information and causes WP:OR problems. Toda this editor targeted myself and User:JuneGloom07. We have been working on articles close to their chosen topic, Holby City. A lot of problems rose from their unsourced mobile edits to Holby City (series 16). They recently created Holby City (series 17) and I was shocked to see - not only a mess, but "?" inserted in the prose where he could not provide the correct episode details and masses of unsourced data. Not to mention the series does not begin for another month and little information is known.

I added citation tags while JuneGloom07 appears to have moved uncertain and unsourced data. User:AdamTayl was unhappy that we followed protocol. He used the article to perform a dummy edit to tell myself and JuneGloom07 their opinion of us in which they state: "You two are the most irritating editors I've heard of. Extremely ignorant, never thanking anyone, self-centered, just leave..." [15]

This editor seems to enjoy telling others to leave Wikipedia - "Stop editing you prat." - [16]

I have actually made an effort to correct unsourced information. But it got too much so I issued warnings. If you view his edit history for his talk page you will see that they blank each warning made. They made an accusation that we are ignorant yet they continue to ignore valid warnings and carry on regardless. Yet this editor has run of field wrecking articles and creating new ones consisting of original research. Their attitude is unsavoury to say the least. [17].Rain the 1 18:34, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

I see you've warned him about everything except WP:NPA ... was that intentional? the panda ₯’ 21:45, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
It was not intentional. Too late now. They take no notice of warnings and that is one of the reasons why I landed here.Rain the 1 00:35, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

User:Bbb23[edit]

A notability and content discussion has started on the OP's talk page, which hopefully resolves the issue. Other points below are noted, but nothing here that presently requires admin tools. Euryalus (talk) 06:04, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

There's a long history of deleting folks pages with this user. I wrote an article about a Commonwealth's Attorney, a stub, that was referenced, that said clearly, that she was a Commonwealth's Attorney, a prosecutor, an elected public official. There was no bias in the writing. It was my first article. I wanted to write several of them, since there's many public officials in Kentucky, the state where I live, which wikipedia doesn't have a page for, including her husband. I am flabbergasted at why he would do this. I did write, in the talk pages, that she was a judge, but just mistyped. It would seem obvious that it was mistyped in the talk pages, since I mentioned that she's a Commonwealth's Attorney in the main article stub. I would have changed it had I caught the mistake, but didn't get a chance to. That mistake, however, does not negate that she is a public official. I've wrote on his talk page, and he's not responding to me, not wanting to explain to me why this public official isn't allowed to have a wikipedia page. I do not know why he is doing this. This could be sexist. The post was about the first female Commonwealth's Attorney of that area. Maybe that had something to do with it. It was referenced, plus was a stub, and had several cross references with several other categories. Sarahrosemc (talk) 23:06, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

The article is on Linda Tally Smith? Or is it another one? Caden cool 00:28, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
Most administrators have a long history of deleting articles: it's one of the jobs an administrator does. The deletion rationale appears to be appropriate, local politicians and officials are in general not notable, and the article makes no claim that the subject is notable enough for inclusion in a global encyclopedia. The article has not yet been deleted: if and when it is, you will want to use deletion review to contest the deletion. In the meantime, there is no indication that there is an issue with Bbb23's conduct requiring action, this is a normal process of the encyclopedia, with which you appear to disagree. Acroterion (talk) 00:37, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
@Acroterion. Sarah is a new editor so give her a break. The issue I see is that Bbb23 has failed to respond to her posts which I think is both a problem and not good. Caden cool 00:42, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
I understand that, but the Sarahrosemic has given Bbb23 less than an hour to respond before bringing the matter here. We're all volunteers here. I will leave a note on her talkpage pointing her to WP:BIO and WP:POLITICIAN, which should help her understand why being the first female Commonwealth's Attorney in the county is not necessarily encyclopedia-worthy. Acroterion (talk) 00:48, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
I would have responded, but by the time I saw it, she had already notified me 15 minutes later about ANI, so it didn't make any sense to respond. I didn't realize that her notification wasn't really accurate; it was some sort of pre-notice. Then, when I saw the thing finally at ANI, it was so full of nonsense, it didn't merit a response; besides it's the wrong venue. She has since recreated the article. At least she had the good sense to remove all of the copyright infringement (the bulk of the article). This whole thing about a mistake on the talk page about the subject being a judge was pretty silly. After she recreated it, I had to remove several judge cats, remove judge from persondata, and remove the stub, which was a judge stub. Anyway, I've retagged it for deletion. Her silly accusations of sexism, etc., are on the talk page (just like here).--Bbb23 (talk) 00:56, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
This is a new user. A new user might find ANI, but he or she isn't going to magically know how this vast bureaucratic labyrinth works. Just because she didn't figure out how to ask "in the right way" (ie. on the page you prefer) doesn't mean she doesn't deserve a respectful, complete answer. I say "respectful" because calling a good-faith complaint by a perplexed new user "nonsense" or "silly" or admitting you were not going to answer the complaint is a pretty good way of ensuring that said new user doesn't stick around to become a productive editor. Incidentally, you may be unaware that "silly" is a common code word used by bigots specifically to minimize and dismiss women: had you called me or a complaint of mine that, I would find it difficult to assume good faith were I a new user unaware of your years of excellent contributions and your reputation for fairness. --NellieBly (talk) 02:48, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
I find it hard to see good faith in running around yelling "your being sexist!!!!" -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 03:02, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
On another note... how is a new user able to find ANI on their very first day editing here? – Epicgenius (talk) 03:04, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
Not to mention a user less than 3 hours old being able to refer to someone's "long history of deleting folks pages with this user." New editor or not, AGF or not, can we close this complaint as having nothing actionable (or whatever term is used)? The articles are at AFD and there does not seem to be any point in keeping this open. Meters (talk) 04:00, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
Sarah seems to have calmed down some. She's responding much better to others than before. Nyttend has been very helpful, and I've even tried to help her at her talk page and at one of the AfDs. As for closing this, I don't think I can do that. :-) --Bbb23 (talk) 05:12, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Another India Against Corruption editor[edit]

8,296th verse, same as the first. Blocked. IPsocks blocked. The blocking will continue as long as the socking does. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:32, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
Another unproductive IAC thread. IP editor says they have raised a legal issue with WMF. If so they should await the response rather than pursuing a parallel discussion here. Euryalus (talk) 06:31, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Crapscourge (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

Waited to get autoconfirmed then headed straight for the article [18]. Copyright claim was discussed on this board last week and debunked here. --NeilN talk to me 03:18, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

This is an entirely different copyright infringement red flag on specific issues the infringer is yet to respond to. Crapscourge (talk) 03:27, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
No, your user name is actually Orwellian doublespeak. You are shoveling more of the stuff. --NeilN talk to me 03:29, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
Now that Sitush has self outed and his cover / fiction is blown, its an entirely different scenario for WMF. This is a ref flag. Let an experienced Admin deal with it as per policy. Crapscourge (talk) 03:34, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
  • Does anyone have an opinion on whether these editors (the blocked and about-to-be-blocked socks, not NeilN!) are in fact a single person, or whether they are part of a (small) group? I'm tending to think the former because in a group I would expect someone to point out to the others that they are not getting anywhere so they should try another approach. My suggestion would be that the IAC editor forget about Sitush—we really don't care—the only thing that matters here is the article. If there is a problem, please find someone able to explain the issue without attacks or rants (and forget about the copyright ruse—is it really likely that the editors who maintain Wikipedia are that stupid?). Johnuniq (talk) 03:43, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
Possibly yes. Ask Mr. Sitxxx-Tushxx to publicly respond to the email allegations, and keep the "Man-xxxx cabals" and their ANI blocks out of this. Copyvio is a techno-legal issue so there is a policy to deal with it especially for offensive remarks about BLPs like Swami Ramdev etc. Crapscourge (talk) 03:52, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
History shows the content disputes issues have been discussed ad-nauseam. Had Sitush not walked out of mediation, the case would have been different. The entire text on the India Against Corruption report (which writes hugely false and inaccurate things about notable BLP persons like Hazare and Ramdev) is almost exclusively written by a single editor after unacceptable edit-warring behaviour like this [19].Crapscourge (talk) 04:04, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
  • the language appears far too similar over far too many accounts to be multiple individuals unless they are all sitting there together composing every edit. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 04:16, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
  • I have blocked user:Crapscourge. logging off now, -- Diannaa (talk) 04:20, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

By the way, if anyone is looking for the mediation case Crapscourge is referring to, it's here. As you can see from the mediator's multiple closing comments, Crapscourge was again shovelling. --NeilN talk to me 04:25, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

That doesn't give the complete picture, I found this --> [20] "Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/India Against Corruption
Non-partiicipation of some parties. Closed by mediator. Sunray (talk) 14:41, 25 February 2014 (UTC)"
Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/India Against Corruption
Issues to be mediated
Primary issues (added by the filing party)
2) Whether the apellations "Team Anna" and "India Against Corruption" unambiguously refer to the same entity or not ..
3)Whether defamatory / disparaging statements emanating from misuse of the India Against Corruption's title(s) by third parties should be associated with the actual India Against Corruption movement in Wikipedia's article(s), or if these should be taken to articles on Anna Hazare, Team Anna, Jantantra Morcha etc. ?
...Agree Sitush (talk) 04:09, 3 January 2014 (UTC)
Wikipedia talk:Requests for mediation/India Against Corruption
Primary issues
Returning to the primary issues, the first one listed was the following: Is the information in the article accurate? Could we start by identifying information that is not considered accurate? Please list examples as bullet points. Let's keep posts brief (say 200 words) so we can deal with issues as effectively as possible? Sunray (talk) 03:56, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
Broadly the inaccuracies in the article as we see it are:-
  • That IAC ("India Against Corruption") and "Team Anna" are synonmous / interchangeable terms referring to the same entity.
  • All POVs (and sources) which imply or claim that IAC (as distinguished from Team Anna) is a right-wing / communal organization / movement.
  • That Sarbajit Roy only took over the IAC 'andolan in Sep 2013 after Kejriwal and Hazare had left.
  • That IAC supports (or has supported) the demand / campaign for an overarching ombudsman (ie. the (Jan) Lokpal Bill). 2001:4DD0:FF00:8A8B:0:0:0:5747 (talk) 06:08, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm pulling out of this. It is a pointless exercise and we're going round in circles, mainly because of WP:CIR. - Sitush (talk) 10:53, 20 February 2014 (UTC)
I've left a message for Sitush on his talk page. Sunray (talk) 20:14, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
Non-partiicipation of some parties. Closed by mediator. Sunray (talk) 14:41, 25 February 2014 (UTC)"

24.42.12.58 (talk) 05:22, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

If anyone is taking the above sock at face value - please look at the actual case and note the misleading omissions and indentations. Typical tactics. --NeilN talk to me 05:33, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
IP blocked as a sock of User:Crapscourge/ role account associated with User:HRA1924. Some advice for the HRA1924 user(s) - pick one of your many blocked accounts, call it your primary account and seek an unblock through the usual process. Offer some convincing evidence that you will refrain from legal threats, personal attacks and disruptive editing, and you may find you have more success in getting community consensus for any content issues you seek to raise. Until then you're really just wasting time here at AN/I. Euryalus (talk) 05:45, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
Thanks for the advice. I (ie. this user concerned with copyright violations) am already in touch with Sue Gardner and WMF's senior community advocate has reached out to me by email. I can't speak for the other members of the declared role a/c "HRA1924". Its curious that its always AN/I being used to prevent anybody except Sitush and his cabal from editing the article. Introspect. But thanks anyways. 2A01:28:CA:102:0:0:0:1 (talk) 06:03, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict)Speaking as a copyright clerk, I'm getting sick and tired of this disruption. We have an enormous backlog just dealing with real copyright infringements. As everyone knows (apart from this latest sock), copyright violation is an entirely separate issue from alleged BLP violations, and the copyright template must never be used to blank text because of a content dispute. For the record, see my analysis of the previous accusation of copyvio at Wikipedia:Copyright problems/2014 September 3. This latest one was completely spurious and without merit from a copyright point of view. Voceditenore (talk) 06:08, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
And how would the hosting provider react when the infringed email is produced eventually ? At the present time this is a copyright matter and was reported by me as a copyright matter. Blocking to chill civil discussion doesn't benefit anybody and results in biting. 2A01:28:CA:102:0:0:0:1 (talk) 06:14, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
Hopefully disregard it as another spurious claim. --NeilN talk to me 06:19, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
@Voceditenore You wrote this "5. The paraphrasing in the Wikipedia article was from the book above which was properly cited as the source. There is no convincing evidence that it was paraphrased from anywhere else. Thus, any alleged copyright infringement is a matter between the group purporting to be the current IAC, Veeresh Malik (the alleged author of the 2014 book) and Meera Nanda (the confirmed author of the 2013 book)." Are you implying that Meera Nanda is the plagiarist here ? Did User:Sitush have any permission to use even 3 consecutive words from Nanda's book ?
@NeilN we'll see about that. 2A01:28:CA:102:0:0:0:1 (talk) 06:28, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Requesting uninvolved admin[edit]

NOTHING USEFUL IS TO COME OF THIS
regardless of what should be done, Wikipedians of any experience must reasonably predict that discussions of this nature go no where. --Jayron32 19:30, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I am posting here because another user is insisting on misrepresenting me by removing part but not all of what I have said on their talk page. I feel if I continue to handle this myself that it will go badly so I am stepping away from it and seeking outside help.

I will try to keep this short.

I made a post on another admins talk page and in response I was accused of sock puppetry by User:Eric Corbett. I responded to the accusation by asking for evidence.

From here it quickly deteriorated. After a short discussion I told I was not welcome there which is fine.

However the editor is now insisting on removing some of what I said while leaving other things I said there. It is creating the false impression that I was asked a question and did not answer it. I even tried removing only my own comments while leaving his, he restored my comments despite me explicitly asking him not to, insisting on his version where half of what I said remains out of context.

As far as I can tell the initial accusation is a reference to a conversation we had 5 years ago: User_talk:Chillum/Archive_34#Your_secondary_account(note he went by User:Malleus Fatuorum back then). I really do not know how to respond to someone bringing up an issue from 5 years ago and then refusing to talk about it so I am just going to move on.

I am not here to ask for evidence of the accusation, or for any sort of action against this editor. I am trying to be reasonable in my expectations.

All I want is that either the thread is removed in its entirety or is restored to its entirety. It is not reasonable for an editor to be able pick and choose which part of a discussion stays on their talk page when doing so misrepresents the situation.

I am now going to walk away from the situation and let the community deal with it or not deal with it as they see fit. I don't feel I should be misrepresented but regardless will accept whatever outcome results here. Chillum Need help? Type {{ping|Chillum}} 18:01, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

You're an admin, and Malleus is flat-out accusing you of being a sock of another admin? Something's wrong with this picture. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:23, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Where have I accused Chillum of being a sock of another admin? Eric Corbett 18:26, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
OK, I see what you're saying. So, which user ID's do you think are socks of Chillum? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:29, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
I have no idea, I'm only going by what Chillum himself has admitted to. So can you now stop throwing false accusations around? Eric Corbett 18:32, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Where does Chillum admit to sockpuppetry? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:15, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Bongwarrior is an obvious glass sock. --NE2 18:33, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Of who? Where is the SPI? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:46, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
I think you are probably right here Chillum, Corbett can ask you to stay off his talk page (a policy I find a bit odd, but that's not my call), but he shouldn't be able to mis-represent you and remove just some of your comments, it should be all or nothing. CombatWombat42 (talk) 18:34, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
  • @Chillum: No one gives a crap about what anti-admin rant Eric is on about on a particular day. Just ignore it. He's a far more protected species on Wikipedia than any admin is.--v/r - TP 18:37, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
  • I think that you can ask Eric politely to restore your comments in their entirety, or to remove them in their entirety, but I don't think anyone can force Eric to do either of those things. Generally, the owner of a user talk page usually decides what is on their user talk page. Editors are encouraged to do things like archive their talk page threads, and to not partially remove your comments, but encouragement is all we can do. I think it would be reasonable for you to remove your own comments from the discussion, if you prefer them to be removed, as long as Eric doesn't have any strong objections to it. ‑Scottywong| spill the beans _ 18:41, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Chillum really should not be edit-warring with another editor on that editor's talk page. You can see the 8 edits in 30 minutes that Chillum made on Eric's page here. Only the last three are reverts, but it really isn't the way to behave on somebody else's talk page.
In brief, Chillum arrived on Eric's page with an angry message. Eric replied "Why are you wasting your time here in trying to lecture to me Chillum? You surely must be aware of the contempt in which I hold you." That is the question that Chillum seemed so desperate to answer, even though most of us would recognise a rhetorical question. Eric removed the further response from Chillum, who then edit warred just to have his answer displayed. When that failed, he removed the entire thread from Eric's page. Not cool.
No good has ever come from posting angry messages on Eric's page; nor from edit warring on somebody else's talk page; nor from unnecessary ANI posts about either of those. Please think of all the innocent electrons that are sacrificed in these threads and wrap this up soon. --RexxS (talk) 18:44, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
WP:TPG, "Never edit or move someone's comment to change its meaning, even on your own talk page." (Emphasis not mine)--v/r - TP 18:45, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Nobody edited or moved someone's comment to change its meaning, so what's your point?
WP:TPO "Simply deleting others' comments on your talk page is permitted ..." --RexxS (talk) 19:12, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
...and while we're taking requests you can stay off my talk page too Chillum. Cassiantotalk 18:48, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Chillum is a poor excuse for an admin. But he shouldn't have to put up with sockpuppetry allegations without any evidence being provided. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 18:53, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
We're going to have to start a sub-thread inside this ANI thread for that comment. My understanding is that Chillum dates to a prior era.--Milowenthasspoken 19:00, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Oh, to the time when the standards for becoming an admin were much lower, Gotcha. Regardless, if he's being accused of socking, the accuser needs to either present evidence or retract the accusation. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:10, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Eric has already told you that he's only going on what Chillum himself has admitted. Are you trying to say that one of them is lying? --RexxS (talk) 19:17, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Where does Chillum admit to sockpuppetry? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:15, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Got the mop almost eight years ago, Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Chillum, 76-1 vote - TO ANOTHER ACCOUNT NAME. lol. I'm sure Eric is likely referring to one of Chillum's openly disclosed prior accounts, but if drama results from any ambiguity about it, it delights him.--Milowenthasspoken 19:22, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
That's not sockpuppetry. So is Malleus merely making an ironic joke? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 19:29, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
  • Just ignore it. It is not worth your time, or anyone else's. You really should know that bringing Eric to ANI is a waste of time; and he'll never bring you here, so rant at him once and let it go.--Milowenthasspoken 18:50, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Heat. Light. Closed. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:35, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Resistance is futile. Eric is too well protected here. No complaint on ANI in the recent past involving him has remained open and is generally closed as "This isn't going to go anywhere", even if the complaint is legitimate. Editors should therefore stop bringing issues relating to Eric here and just leave him alone and let him do as he pleases. Eventually, perhaps that will have a better effect.--Mark Miller (talk) 22:12, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Protected by whom? Have you considered the possibility that the AN/I reports to which you refer were without merit? Eric Corbett 05:35, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
By multiple editors and admin that continue to tell others that you are unsanctionable. Oh sure, I considered that this was without merit....and also that you were just disrupting yet another discussion because you just don't care for the subject.--Mark Miller (talk) 05:41, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
If I'm unsanctionable then how do you explain my block log? Which let me remind you includes a block for using the word "sycophantic"? It's remarkable how those such as yourself are so completely lacking in insight that they're completely blind to the personal attacks they make on editors they've taken a dislike to. Eric Corbett 06:20, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

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User:Cassianto[edit]

It is NOT acceptable to assign your own reason and rhetoric to someone's userboxes. It is NOT acceptable to attack someone's editing because of their person. Generally speaking, it's also NOT acceptable to make ridonculous comments that serve to further inflame a situation, rather than resolve the panda ₯’ 21:52, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Cassianto seems to be upset with me because I disagreed with him on the Peter Sellers talk page and that's fine but saying lies about me such as this [21] is not acceptable at all. I reverted his edit because it was unproductive, abusive and untrue. I hope an admin can make it known to him that his edit was and is unacceptable. Caden cool 20:02, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

This seems to be a case of creative verbiage rather than outright lies, as you do have userboxes displayed that say the following: "This user enjoys sex," "This user enjoys pornography," so Cassianto saying "alludes on his user page, that he is a porno-obsessed nymphomaniac" falls in a grey area. That said, the tone is somewhat combative. I hereby censure you both. Post here to acknowledge this is sufficient and that you agree no further action is necessary. DocumentError (talk) 20:14, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Sellers doesn't bother me so don't presume anything. For those interested, try looking at Caden's user page: he likes pornography, fact. He likes sex, fact. He only believes in marriage between a man and a woman, fact. Quite apart from there being too much information about his sexl-life, I find the fact that he ignores gay marriage homophobic and quite offensive. These are not attacks, they are observations of his user page, which I'm quite entitled to make. Cassiantotalk 20:16, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
I disagree with both of you. Cass is way over the line with his lies and attacks. Caden cool 20:19, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Disagree all you like, if you don't want others drawing inferences about you, don't plaster personal views and likes all over your user page. Oh, and Caden is now edit-warring with me on the Heterosexuality talk page. This is a legitimate vote with my views expressed about why I oppose, so my vote stands until it is proven otherwise. Cassiantotalk 20:29, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
This isn't a referendum. DocumentError (talk) 20:31, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Who said it was? There is nothing offensive, defamatory, slanderous are incorrect about my vote, so why should it be reverted? Cassiantotalk 20:35, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
You both seem like wonderful people that are choosing to engage in Gladiator Editing. Cassiano - it's not constructive to incorporate information gleaned from an editor's userpage into article discussions. And, Caden, personal life userboxes tend to bring these things on yourself. I sentence you each to review a Good article nominee. DocumentError (talk) 20:27, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Why? Content on WP is PD and can be used anywhere, no? Cassiantotalk 20:30, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Lol, DocumentError. You "sentence" me to do a GA review? I applaud your lighthearted response, but you seem to be sitting on the fence somewhat. Cassiantotalk 20:33, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
I agree with DocumentError's UN blue helmet approach. Cassianto is in the right on this, I feel, but let's all move on to something more productive. Tim riley talk 20:37, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
I'm taking the bull by the horns because admins have essentially abandoned this place. While I don't have the ability to enforce my judgment, I keep a notebook next to my computer and I am making a list of 24 hour bans to issue once I'm an admin. So, I suggest you and Caden agree to disengage and each do a GA review or I will issue a Contingency Ban (contingent on my future adminship). DocumentError (talk) 20:39, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
To accept a "sentence" assumes guilt, which does not apply to me. I will, however, go in one direction if Caden goes in another. Maybe he should "review" his user page and either accept it when someone makes references to him based on his user boxes, or alter them altogether. Cassiantotalk 20:43, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Then I hereby contingency block you for 24 hours for violation WP:NPA. Caden is still ordered to do a GA review. DocumentError (talk) 20:50, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Content on Wikipedia (text) is CC-BY-SA 3.0, not PD. Just a nitpick. - Purplewowies (talk) 21:21, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Cass you are guilty and you know it. Telling me to "fuck off" on your talk page was real mature and calling me a troll on the Peter Sellers page was also real mature. Caden cool 20:48, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
It is my talk page and I can tell whoever I like to fuck off if I think that person is ripping the piss out of me. As for the troll remark, if the cap fits... Cassiantotalk 20:56, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
  • We've abandoned ANI? News to me. This entire topic hasn't even been open for an hour. Anyway, I'm going to disagree with the crowd here: Cassianto, that was way over the line. Many people (indeed, perhaps most people?) enjoy both sex and pornography without being porn-obsessed nymphomaniacs; an editor openly acknowledging that they enjoy the one does not give you free license to label them the other whenever it suits your rhetorical point. I wish you'd go back in and strike that bit from your !vote; I certainly wish you wouldn't do it again. It doesn't actually help your point at all and merely degrades another editor. "Comment on the content, not the contributor" comes to mind; you are welcome to say "this proposal is disruptive and pointy"; there's no need to insult the proposer, as well.

    Caden, this isn't the place to discuss such things, but in fairness, that was a pretty silly proposal. There was no need for you to continue escalating things through reverting once you brought it here, especially in reverting the !vote in its entirety when only a portion was objectionable; it only made things worse. Cut it out.

    DocumentError, I think you'll find that most editors are truly humorless about stuff like RfAs; joking about sentencing people and lists of people to block (not ban) for 24 hours once you become an admin is probably not going to go over well when you decide to finally run. I'd ease up on that. Writ Keeper  20:52, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Writ Keeper, you have not mentioned Caden's view about marriage, which I find to be homophobic. What do you have to say about that? Cassiantotalk 21:07, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Cass my views on marriage changed awhile ago so don't go around spreading lies about my views. You don't know anything about me or my views. Your basing things on my user page that hasnt been edited in years. Caden cool 21:14, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Then without wishing to sound impertinent, can I ask that you adjust your user boxes. I am straight, but even heterosexual people can be offended by those views. Oh, and all the time this is on your user page, it is the truth, so please stop calling it a lie. Cassiantotalk 21:20, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Cass please remove the lies and attacks on me that you put back on the talk page. I've had enough of your games. Caden cool 21:28, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Can you explain to me where I have lied? The thread in question has now been closed by an admin and it would be wrong of me to adjust it, even if I wanted to, which I don't. Anyway, your pal NeilN removed them for you, which makes him in breach of talk guidelines. Cassiantotalk 21:34, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
I'm not anyone's "pal". You'll note I !voted against Caden's proposal long before you showed up. Removing personal attacks from talk pages is allowed. Funny it was your "pal" who removed a post of mine from your talk page. --NeilN talk to me 21:41, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Again, these were not "attacks" they were observations based on what he has advertised on his user page. If I had a box on my page claiming I was a racist, would you find that acceptable? Cassiantotalk 21:51, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Cass your personal attack on me is still there. Remove it because it's lies. Caden cool 21:46, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
See [22], or its various other iterations. DocumentError (talk) 20:55, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
This is beyond ludicrous. Never have I seen someone order another editor to make changes to their userpage under threat of ongoing personal insult. But the only attention given this insane behavior is a drive-by finger-wagging. Meanwhile, the problem will fester, grow, coagulate, and eventually one or both parties will end up indefinitely blocked after it erupts into something spectacular. Unbelievable. DocumentError (talk) 21:32, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
What I find ludicrous is a non-admin assuming admin duties and then openly admitting that when he does become an admin, he will start to mete out punishment to all those who crossed him. Cassiantotalk 21:38, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Oh good grief. Is this the general tone of interaction you usually assume with other editors? DocumentError (talk) 21:51, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
If it assuages your concern, Rationalobserver, I assure you I have no intent to RfA. And I think my comment was every bit as rational and lucid as those we have seen to date in this thread from both parties. I'll leave it at that. DocumentError (talk) 21:16, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
I hope so, because I'd be the first to oppose solely based on that comment. §FreeRangeFrogcroak 21:39, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
  • Time to move on. Once any thread starts navel gazing about Admins potential future actions, or potential admins' future actions, or admins' potential future actions then it comes time to cap the lot and move on to the next dramah. - SchroCat (talk) 21:42, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Material oversighted by Chillum --NeilN talk to me 22:35, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Oh so now your calling me homophobic? How many more lies will you say about me Cass? BTW I want your personal attacks on me removed from the Heterosexual talk page. It's still there so remove it. I've asked you 3 or 4 times now. Caden cool 22:05, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

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Bugs, there's carrot stew that needs to be eaten. - The Bushranger One ping only 08:39, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
NOT THE VENUE
Take it somewhere else, please. Or nowhere, that's good too. Writ Keeper  23:40, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

A right-wing Republican touting porn? That's different. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:40, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

Please stop it Bugs. Caden cool 22:48, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Stop what? A Republican promoting porn is about as rare as hens' teeth. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:51, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Maybe he's a horny one percenter. SlightSmile 22:55, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
MrX does not get to own this page. There is still an open issue here. The thing is, if you put something on your user page, you have to expect it to get commented on from time to time. I've sometimes been hassled for my own flag-waving user page. No big deal. It comes with the territory. If you don't want to be made fun of for what you've got posted on your user page, then don't post it.Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:01, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Your comments seem like nothing more than trolling to me. Weren't you recently blocked for similar disruption?- MrX 23:25, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
I don't see a disconnect there, Bugs. Declaring oneself as a republican does not mean supporting everything all of their talking points. Most notably, beliefs religious right wing of the party. That's part of where the Tea Party comes from, and their conflict with the GOP. The personal freedom to do what one chooses without significant interference from government. Ravensfire (talk) 23:36, 18 September 2014 (UTC)
Doesn't seem that odd to me. Walk into any fraternity on a major university campus and you'll find a lot of Republicans and a lot of porn. Neither the Republican nor Democratic party are monoliths. Antonio Gramsci described how various worldviews with only one or two things in common are melded together to form an historic bloc or counter-hegemon. Each faction under the umbrella defers certain aspects of their worldview in order to see their core priorities realized. DocumentError (talk) 23:41, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

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Promotional account attempting to insert javascript into articles[edit]

Blocked by Discospinster. Drmies (talk)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Adonis333infinity (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) has mainly been trying to promote a bicycle website (even creating a now-deleted spam article). Given that, I see little reason to assume that the javascript he's been trying to insert into articles is going to be helpful to the site. Oh, wait, he's definitely continuing to spam.

I know he hasn't been responding to anyone, and maybe he's blind, doesn't know English, and is on a cellphone with a platform that doesn't get notifications or something, but he's at his last warning and has had plenty of warnings to stop. Ian.thomson (talk) 21:33, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Amazon Marketplace banner spamming? Yeah, a block is required here. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 21:39, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Takfiri[edit]

I've recently added a major omission to the article Takfiri, regarding how this term has come to be used as a sectarian slur. I've used three different reliable sources and an external link, which have been deleted wholesale repeatedly from the article with no discussion. One of the accounts deleting the added material appears to be a burner account. Can someone please take a look at this for me? I don't think I'll be able to resolve this without outside assistance. Thanks. Nulla Taciti (talk) 16:51, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) You have removed half of the lede about a theological term, and added twice as many words about very RECENT usage of that term, over 9 4 days of slow edit warring. Statements like "The article is about the term and all its uses" are incorrect: articles are about a single subject only and we disambiguate to other subjects. Now a case could be made to include information about recent usage further down in the article, but per UNDUE this would likely merit only a paragraph or so, and perhaps a sentence (if that) in the lede. But the place to gain CONSENSUS is at Talk:Takfiri, not through edit summaries and not here at ANI. Woodroar (talk) 19:43, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
9 days of edit wars... what are you talking about? I didn't even edit the article before (around)2 days ago4 days ago. Not sure where you got the other week from. The fact is this term has become highly contentious and this can't be wiped from the article. There is no other place to indicate this short of creating a Wikipedia:Stub article specifically for takfiri as a sectarian term. Nulla Taciti (talk) 21:07, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
My apologies. I was looking at the last edit prior to yours, which was 9 days ago. Your first edit was 4 days ago. The term certainly can be wiped from the article, if that's what CONSENSUS indicates. I have no opinion on whether it should be another article or not, though I am concerned that a new article would only become a COATRACK or ATTACK page. Woodroar (talk) 21:16, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Pointing out the well documented derogatory use of a term using high quality sources does not indicate an "attack" or specific agenda of any kind. Obscuring these facts, however, would seem to indicate the latter. Nulla Taciti (talk) 22:30, 19 September 2014 (UTC)
Well 2 days have gone by and the information I added to the article has remained intact (even though my request for discussion on the talk page has gone unanswered...). An admin might want to do a quick check on the article before closing this matter. Thanks. Nulla Taciti (talk) 01:28, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Harassment by Hasmens[edit]

(Non-administrator comment) Per WP:IAR. Since both complaints are about the same issue, I've turned it into a Grand Unified Complaint. Kleuske (talk) 10:03, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Hasmens has been engaging in long-term, large-scale copyvios on Northern Cyprus (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views). After I cleaned up the article with the help of Diannaa, Hasmens left a harassing message on my talk. I don't think he understood anything from the copyvio warnings he received from Dianna and myself. His message includes crude warnings such as And keep your hands off articles related to Northern Cyprus and Turkish Cypriots in general which has been edited with utmost care and consideration. No one understands Northern Cyprus and Turkish Cypriots more than the Turkish Cypriots themselves. and the rest of the message included nasty attacks on Greeks in general and myself and my ethnic background in particular, including but not limited to:

You are talking about copyright when you yourselves disregard every copyright rule in the book by claiming and looting the culture and history of other countries. You are the most ignorant uneducated person I have ever come across. How dare you vandalize and delete information that is hundred percent true. If you cannot accept the truth and facts don't read it. What gives you the right to delete sourced information. You have vandalized the entire page and left the page looking like a mess, this is clearly a personal attack and hate that has been passed on by generation to generation.

This is the second such harassing message, the first one was almost as bad. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 08:51, 20 September 2014 (UTC)

Large scale Vandalism by Dr.K[edit]

Unfortunately politics has interfered in my recent edits on Northern Cyprus. As a Turkish Cypriot I have volunteered my time to improve and expand the article on Northern Cyprus with my sources been taken from websites based in Northern Cyprus. Some of the information I added was changed around and improved in a way so in which it can be understood. If you could compare the information with the original it is quite different with some sections using different wording and such. I was ready to negotiate with Dr.K and was even prepared to alter the section into my own words. But unfortunately it wasn't enough. The dispute initially started with GiorgosY who is now banned from editing. Many attempts to vandalize the page where made by this specific user over the past few weeks. Attempts to delete, blank, and vandalize the page was also made by various other users disagreeing with factual well sourced information which has been taken from archives and books written by professional historians. I would like to state that Dr.K deletion of the sections on Northern Cyprus where politically motivated. As a regular Wikipedia reader and editor I will be very disappointed if information which doesn't suit the specific nationalistic interests of users is deleted. It is evident that Dr.K is motivated by hate towards Turkish people in general, and would like to see my edits to be restored to its original form Thank you! Their should no room for politically motivated edits.

Regards ( Hasmens (talk) 09:48, 20 September 2014 (UTC) )

Dr K brought this problem to my attention yesterday morning, so I reviewed the 50 edits you made to the article Northern Cyprus. All the material you added was copyright violations, copied from various copyright online sources. Dr K was correct to remove the material, and it cannot be restored, because its inclusion on this wiki is in violation of copyright law. Insulting other users the way you did constitutes a personal attack. If that kind of behaviour continues, you could be blocked from editing. -- Diannaa (talk) 13:18, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
@Diannaa: Thank you Dianna for your valuable assistance in this incident. I am still concerned that, despite these warnings, Hasmens still seems to defend his copyvios by saying: and would like to see my edits to be restored to its original form and by making ethnicity-based attacks such as: You are talking about copyright when you yourselves disregard every copyright rule in the book by claiming and looting the culture and history of other countries.. Such militancy in defending copyright violations on a personal as well as an ethnicity level is disturbing and imo it exhibits WP:BATTLE at its most extreme. I am very concerned about that. I am also concerned about his WP:OWN mentality exhibited by: And keep your hands off articles related to Northern Cyprus and Turkish Cypriots in general which has been edited with utmost care and consideration. No one understands Northern Cyprus and Turkish Cypriots more than the Turkish Cypriots themselves. I am also concerned by the bolded sentence which implies that direct copyvios constitute a sign of utmost care and consideration in editing Wikipedia. His open defiance in defending his massive, repeated and long-term violations of the copyright policy in the face of multiple prior warnings, betrays no understanding of one of the core policies of Wikipedia and is really concerning. The last thing the project needs is militant serial plagiarists. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 17:16, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
Yesterday's warning is his final warning. Any further copyright violations will result in an immediate block (as immediate as differences in time zones permits). I will watch. Also, as User:EdJohnston rightly notes on the user talk page, the article is subject to ARBMAC restrictions. -- Diannaa (talk) 17:42, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
Thank you Diannaa for your reply and for letting me know about EdJohnston's warning. Your approach and that of Ed's has been professional. Thank you both. Take care. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 18:04, 20 September 2014 (UTC)
@Diannaa: The harassment continues. At EdJohnston's talkpage he is accusing me of racially motivated edits providing quotes from GiorgosY and falsely saying that they are mine. Please see this section on Ed's talkpage as well as my reply with a diff proving the quote is not mine but GiorgosY's. He is also accusing you of misconduct. As I said before, he is not showing signs of either stopping the harassment or understanding the copyvio issues involved. Δρ.Κ. λόγοςπράξις 03:35, 21 September 2014 (UTC)

Personal attack campaign being waged on User-page[edit]

[23] contains a long paragraph telling the reader exactly where to find me, without mentioning me by name, but very nearly - and telling the reader that I am a Sockpuppet.

"Pass a Method (mainly edits religious and sexual topics, has a significant interest in or preference for LGBT topics); recently caught him after he tried to evade scrutiny. Take note that there is only one UK-based Wikipedia editor interested in politics and Islam who misspells the word grammar (that I'm aware of anyway), and that editor is Pass a Method. Misspelling the word is what this editor recently did, and that editor was blocked as a Pass a Method WP:Sockpuppet (though for far more than simply misspelling the word grammar). Also take note that because Pass a Method discarded his Pass a Method Wikipedia account by using Wikipedia:WikiProject User scripts/Scripts/WikiBreak Enforcer to enforce a self-imposed WP:Wikibreak until the year 2020, it is a bit trickier reporting him for WP:Sockpuppetry. Either way, editing in the same exact areas as he did before and so soon after his topic ban and WP:Sockpuppetry, while pretending that he is a new editor, is a violation of the WP:Clean start policy; so he can very likely be sanctioned for that. If you find an editor doing several or more of the following things, that editor is very likely a Pass a Method WP:Sockpuppet: Significantly editing the Boko Haram article and other Islamic articles (I mean any editor who is the current main/continuous editor of the Boko Haram article). Editing religious topics in general, including the addition of anything about Pope Francis (whether it's the Pope Francis article or, for example, an addition to the Recreational drug use article about him). Editing LGBT articles. Editing political articles. Editing sexual articles. Editing medical and/or anatomy articles. Editing science topics such as the Big Bang article, or topics about black holes; the Stellar black hole article, for example, could be a candidate. Visiting the WP:Help desk. Focusing on leads. Focusing on British topics; using British spelling. Using editing summaries that are meant to deceive. Using Urban Dictionary as a source, whether it's at the Erection article, or, for example, the Roach (smoking) article. Adding a picture of someone smoking to their user page or talk page. Makes notes on his user page of the articles he's edited, soon after editing those articles."

This is the whole paragraph. I was advised, after I tried to delete it myself, to explain very carefully why I "think" it's about me. ([24]) This was after she had attacked me in an edit summary, [25], stating in the edit summary "your edit summary was deceptive...as usual" (which, on her talk page, you can see she apologises for, and admits, finally, I am not the sockpuppet).

Every fact, from "If you find an editor doing several or more of the following things, that editor is very likely a Pass a Method WP:Sockpuppet:" onwards is directly describing me, compiled from going through my edit history no doubt. (Except the bit about the Erection article). I wrote the entire current Boko Haram article. She first confronted me with her allegation over a month ago, while I was still writing it.

  • For proof this statement should be sufficient "Significantly editing the Boko Haram article and other Islamic articles (I mean any editor who is the current main/continuous editor of the Boko Haram article)" especially the part in parentheses. (I wrote the article without the collaboration of any other editors).
  • Another reason it is clearly about me: I did indeed use the Urban Dictionary as a source on Roach (smoking).
  • Also, I did indeed have Van Gogh's picture of a skeleton smoking a cigarette on my user page, for a month or two, until a couple of days ago.
  • "Focussing on leads" - I have done this lately
  • "Makes notes on his user page of the articles he's edited, soon after editing those articles"- yes, I do that.

Clearly, she has checked everything I do, and added it to the description, to make sure that readers find me.

I hope this is detailed enough. It's very long, but I was warned to be very clear. I would have thought it was immediately obvious, but 2 or 3 admins have refused to do anything about it, because it doesn't mention me by name. This is presumably all a big joke to them. I fail to see the humour.

One statement should suffice to prove everything I say: "(I mean any editor who is the current main/continuous editor of the Boko Haram article)". If you look at the edit history of the BH article, you'll see what I mean. No one has made any substantial edit to that for months (except a couple of editors who insisted on adding a sentence or two to the "name" section).

Another very specific proof, "(whether it's the Pope Francis article or, for example, an addition to the Recreational drug use article about him)". I wrote most of the article and did indeed add a mention of the Pope.

And, as far as the attack being unsubstantiated, she has now finally admitted that she thinks it is "2%" likely that I am the sock. The sock cannot spell (one of the defining characteristics she mentions about him, above), and a quick look at his writing provides evidence of a very shaky grasp of the rules of grammar.

I have no idea why Flyer22 chose to target me in this way. She still claims to be absolutely certain that I have edited WP substantially before this account. As I have repeatedly explained to her, I never even found out how to use references before. But anyway, whatever her mysterious personal antagonism towards me, she has not responded to my requests on her talk page to remove it. The last thing she said (on her talk page, after admins blocked me from deleting the userpage attack myself) was that I am not (or only 2% likely to be) the sockpuppet, and that she apologises for attacking me in an edit summary, and that she has nothing more to say to me.

Clearly, she thinks she should be entitled to attack me, out of personal spite, for however long she sees fit, and the the admins who stopped me from deleting it possibly share her view. So I just thought I'd find out if that is indeed the policy, that long-standing editors can hound new editors out of WP if they see fit, out of personal spite (or other personal reasons, I have no idea). The sockpuppet's inability to follow the rules of grammar or spelling make it obvious at a glance that it's not me. I have now wasted a huge amount of time on this issue. I hope it can be resolved without any more fuss, since it is a crystal clear case of a sustained personal attack (and I have no idea what motivated it). I would like the entire section removed: clearly, she has no ability to track sockpuppets, and would simply use the section to put more "cryptic" clues about what a terrible editor and fraud I am.

I asked the editor who protected her userpage after I tried to delete it to get the stuff about me removed, but he repeatedly claims that it's not about me. This is presumably a private joke which I'm not in on. I am disgusted at the way I've been treated, being hounded over an imbecilic allegation, and told that material attacking me is "not" attacking me, by an administrator.

Please do something to demonstrate that WP isn't the shabby little club ([26], an admin cynically protecting his friend's right to attack me if she wants) that it has now started to appear to me as. On this admins page, another editor has stated that I started editing on Sept 10, I notice. What is that about? Ive been editing for months. It seems like there is a campaign against me for some reason (I would like to know why, but it's not important). zzz (talk) 16:26, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

You deleted the entire page repeatedly [27], [28], [29] and did not respond to Flyer22's offer. [30] --NeilN talk to me 17:33, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
Theres definetly a whiff of incivility going on along with vandalism on the user page, im starting to hear a soft woosh woosh. Amortias (T)(C) 17:40, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
Posting an accusation against another editor - even in personal Talk space - is not AGF. It is correct that zzz should not edit Flyer22's user page, however, neither should Flyer22 be using her user page to attack other editors. If there is an issue of sockpuppetry, it needs to be raised in SPI. If there's not enough evidence for a SPI case then the matter should be dropped. Everyone should have the ability to defend themselves against insinuation and accusation, that's why we have formal arbitration and remediation processes. Posting these as "scarlet letters" on personal user space creates a situation where the accused has no opportunity for defense. There is no possible good outcome to this; it will inevitably lead to disruption and increasingly heated WP:CIVIL issues between Flyer22 and zzz. It should be addressed and corrected right now, either through voluntary action or a compulsory edit to the section in question. DocumentError (talk) 17:43, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
(edit conflict)If you didn't edit as Pass A Method then the information cannot be about you. Your attempt to conflate the issue and say that it is about you is worrying and raises WP:COMPETENCE issues. FWIW shabby little club's are some of my favorite places and I have met some of the nicest people that I have known in them. MarnetteD|Talk 17:50, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
While that's true, Flyer22 behaving toward zzz in an accusatory fashion in articles they both edit has to be taken into account within the context of the monologue on her Talk page. Saying things like "your edit summary was deceptive...as usual" in edit summaries addressed to zzz, etc., can only be designed to "poison the well" against zzz. If one wants to believe another editor is a sock, that's fine, don't bring it up in public, though, unless you're prepared to make an accusation in SPI. I frequently see this where an editor is (often justifiably) convinced another editor is a sock but, instead of filing SPI, pursues "street justice" against them by making insinuations in public space in apparent attempts to delegitimize the suspect editor's contributions in the eyes of others. There is no outcome from organizing a WikiLynchMob that could possibly be construed as benefiting the content quality of WP; this is only and serially disruptive. DocumentError (talk) 18:01, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
(mec) There is more at Recreational Drug Use, admin only and more advice. CBWeather, Talk, Seal meat for supper? 17:52, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Yes there is a whiff of incivility, which I am largely wo blame for, and I regret that. The incivility started when Flyer22 attacked me in this edit summary. I went to CBWeather's page to blow off steam, and she followed me there, and raised her accusations of being a sockpuppet, being detrimental to articles, making deceptive edit summaries, and having a history of diruptive editing, and a personal attacks issue. I very strongly disagree with all of the above, and she provides no evidence. She eventually did apologise for the edit summary, after I had discovered and tried to delete the attack page.

Neil, I didnt notice her offer because it was on your page. I left friendly messages on her page, but there was no reply. In any case, I can't take the offer of removing half a dozen words seriously. Oh yes, and I told her why I was deleting the page.

Marnette, the attack piece claims that I am the puppet. I deny the accusation. I guess you think I am being unreasonable somehow. I do not know why you think this though. zzz (talk) 18:08, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Sorry, "attacked me in this edit summary : [31]" zzz (talk) 18:11, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Either get rid of the lies about me off your page or I will delete it is not "friendly". What are you looking for here? A modification to some text on her user page? if so, I suggest you propose what you want changed. --NeilN talk to me 18:17, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
That was written immediately after I discovered the large attack paragraph. Please read the very polite and fiendly messages after that. zzz (talk) 18:23, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
I want the sockpuppet section removed. zzz (talk) 18:25, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
The section about Pass a method does seem a bit far stretched and all encompassing. I've touched more than one of those bases as have multiple other editors. Amortias (T)(C) 18:30, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
As have I. This essentially describes a measurable percentage of editors on WP; not just zzz. The only possible purpose this could serve is for future use as a cudgel during editing disputes. And, in fact, it appears this is how Flyer22 is using it. Everyone who edits WP should do so unarmed. "Armoring up" before editing an article is not in the collaborative spirit of WP. DocumentError (talk) 18:50, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
There is no need to "armor up" in the way that you describe me as doing; if the editor is a WP:Sockpuppet, they shouldn't be editing Wikipedia anyway, unless it's a legitimate use of an alternative account; I won't apologize for keeping a lookout for those editors, publicly letting others know to do so, and/or keeping those editors off Wikipedia. Flyer22 (talk) 19:05, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
Is that another insinuation that I'm guilty, it sounds a lot like one? And since I'm guilty it serves me right. Or something. zzz (talk) 19:50, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
So the question becomes, are Wikipedia editors allowed to keep a list of known sockmasters and their editing habits on their user page? --NeilN talk to me 18:38, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
The sensible answer to that would be "if they know what they are doing". She clearly doesn't (and has caused me a load of grief as a result). zzz (talk) 18:43, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
(edit conflict)Yes would be my emphatic answer. But when the editing habits of sockmasters include visiting the helpdesk and editing articles including sexual or political themes does seem to be stretching good faith a fraction. Amortias (T)(C) 18:48, 15 September 2014‎ (UTC)
Signedzzz, if I didn't know what I was doing, I would not keep catching WP:Sockpuppets, including Pass a Method WP:Sockpuppets; it was made very clear to you at CambridgeBayWeather's talk page that I have caught many WP:Sockpuppets, and can rarely be fooled by any of them.
And, Amortias, touching one or more of those bases is one thing; touching all of those bases is another. And in my several years of editing this site, editing various topics, I have not come around many, several or even a few British, Islamic-focused editors interested in all of those matters and behaving in those specific ways. The fact that I have not is how I have easily identified Pass a Method time and time again. I will not remove the section in question, especially since I believe that it is helpful to editors. But, like I recently noted on my talk page, I have edited it so that it doesn't seemingly point directly at Signedzzz. As for the rest of this discussion, I have no comment. And this will likely be my only post in this section. If I post in it again, it will be one more time and then I'm done with it. Flyer22 (talk) 18:51, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
(edit conflict)Its the use of several I feel might be part of the issue. If it was rephrased to lean towards the majority or even most of these things that would seem more accurate from how ive read and interpreted your statement above. Amortias (T)(C) 18:58, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

(I'm not Islamic focused, by the way) zzz (talk) 18:54, 15 September 2014 (UTC) (For the record, the Erection edit was Passamethod, not me). zzz (talk) 18:58, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Amortias, the whole second half of the paragraph is basically a list of everything I've done. It's an attack piece, pure and simple. zzz (talk) 20:12, Today (UTC+1)

Flyer22 is at it again? Will she ever learn? Caden cool 20:06, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
Caden, to break my "won't reply again" rule, what do you even mean by that? Whatever you mean, you're wrong. Flyer22 (talk) 20:15, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

The list on the user page, User:Flyer22#WP:Sockpuppet watch, is a clear violation of WP:POLEMIC. There's no indication that this is material that is going to be used in a timely manner, or ever, for a specific dispute resolution. User pages aren't supposed to have Material that can be viewed as attacking other editors, including the recording of perceived flaws. It doesn't matter how accurate it is as a list of the worst editors wikipedia has ever seen, it's a list targeting specific editors. I haven't looked closely at the behavior of the OP here, but the enemy list there is clearly a problem no matter what else happened. There is no imminent use here.__ E L A Q U E A T E 20:29, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

I knew that someone was going to bring up the WP:POLEMIC argument; nope, I don't see it as WP:POLEMIC, and won't see it as such. And your calling it an enemy list is simplifying things dramatically. Flyer22 (talk) 20:34, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
Of course someone was going to bring up WP:POLEMIC. It's a list of editors along with your assessment of their faults, kept for long-term, relating to no-specific-event purposes. It's one of the clearest violations of WP:POLEMIC I could imagine seeing.__ E L A Q U E A T E 20:40, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
If you'd kept that junk off-line, then nobody would have to had to deal with this thread right now. That's why this sort of thing shouldn't be on your user page.__ E L A Q U E A T E 20:42, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
And I don't agree that it is a WP:POLEMIC violation; my opinion on that won't be changing. Flyer22 (talk) 20:42, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
You can be as "I can't hear you" entrenched in your opinion as you want; My guess is that any other editor that compares User:Flyer22#WP:Sockpuppet watch with WP:POLEMIC will come to a different opinion. __ E L A Q U E A T E 20:46, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
If you "knew that someone was going to bring up the WP:POLEMIC argument" that seems to indicate you were aware that what you were posting was suspect right out of the gate. At this point the only question that remains is why you insist on keeping this clearly divisive information up? DocumentError (talk) 20:49, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
@Flyer22. Yes it is an enemy list that you have on your page. You are not fooling anyone. Caden cool 20:51, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
Elaqueate, disagreeing with you is not playing WP:I didn't hear that. And as for the section being junk, it is not; it is a section that helps to identify highly problematic WP:Sockpuppets, quite the opposite of what I interpret WP:POLEMIC to be. And we are dealing with that section right now because Signedzzz did not like my reply to him in an edit summary and took to obsessively posting at CambridgeBayWeather's talk page, and then at my talk page; in other words, he seemingly can't let anything go. Once I made the contents of my user page very clear to him, he sought to remove a section that identifies WP:Sockpuppets, when the section does not mention him. Others have pointed out that the section does not mention him and have stated that the section is fine. I couldn't care in the least that you think I should remove a section about highly problematic WP:Sockpuppets, especially since any of the listed WP:Sockpuppets would want that section removed.
DocumentError, I knew that the WP:POLEMIC argument would be made because I have several years of experience at this site and know of some of the flaws in arguments that go on at it, including all sorts of WP:Wikilawyering. I don't believe in your "work with the highly problematic editors" rationale. If they show up at an article with a newly registered account or as an IP address and I easily recognize them as past editors, then, yes, I will want those editors gone. I care not if you see it as me trying to control articles. Those editors were blocked and/or banned for valid reasons, and I should not have to state, "Kumbaya, let us all work together."
Caden, and you are not fooling me as to why you've posted in this section (hint, hint, yes, I remember your ridiculous merge proposal from earlier in the year, and don't remember interacting with you at all before that point, which is why your "Flyer22 is at it again" argument above is as ludicrous as that aforementioned merge proposal). Neither is Elaqueate. But do carry on with your attempts to remove the contents from my user page. Even if the specific users are removed, I will readd a section there about WP:Sockpuppets, how to spot them and some of the articles WP:Sockpuppets frequently visit. Flyer22 (talk) 21:11, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

The section all but mentions me by name, right down to every article I've edited, and "I mean any editor who is the current main/continuous editor of the Boko Haram article". the fact that an administrator supported you until I brought the matter here, is a separate issue. zzz (talk) 21:36, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

I already removed the "main/continuous" part; you know that. And more than simply one WP:Administrator has supported me on having that section. Flyer22 (talk) 21:50, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Proposal: That the community ask User:Flyer22 to remove negatively-focussed lists of editors from their user page.[edit]

It is clear that this material is not acceptable to the community. --John (talk) 19:09, 17 September 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Flyer22 is maintaining, at User:Flyer22#WP:Sockpuppet watch, a list of editors they have had disputes with, or who have received blocks but are familiar to Flyer22. It contains notes about editors' perceived habits and flaws. Flyer22 has indicated that they won't change their mind on the matter through further discussion. Flyer22's goal of dealing with editorial disruption is a noble one, but they are going about it in a disruptive way.

User pages can only be used for purposes that are acceptable to the community. In the past, publishing privately-compiled lists of editors on a user-page, when that list is based on previous disputes, sanctions, perceived faults, etc. (even when accurate), has been seen by the community as needlessly disruptive. Under "What may I not have in my user pages?", WP:POLEMIC restricts:

Material that can be viewed as attacking other editors, including the recording of perceived flaws. The compilation of factual evidence (diffs) in user subpages, for purposes such as preparing for a dispute resolution process, is permitted provided it will be used in a timely manner. Users should generally not maintain in public view negative information related to others without very good reason. Negative evidence, laundry lists of wrongs, collations of diffs and criticisms related to problems, etc., should be removed, blanked, or kept privately (i.e., not on the wiki) if they will not be imminently used, and the same once no longer needed.

Flyer22 is free to keep whatever notes they want privately if it helps them in their encyclopaedic work. Keeping it in Wikipedia space, long-term, without regard to any specific or current dispute, only invites needless disruption. Flyer22's list contains non-banned editors who are blocked, and as everyone knows, no block is necessarily forever. The fact that this thread exists demonstrates that these sorts of user-page lists are disruptive to encyclopaedia work, even when compiled with the best of intentions. A user page list is not the appropriate way of dealing with future problems with sockpuppets, and Flyer22 has indicated they are confident "recognising" problems without it. If some of the material on the user page is considered by the community to rise to the level of "Personal attack" then WP:BLPTALK also applies.__ E L A Q U E A T E 21:44, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

  • Support as proposer.