Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive875

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User:Darkstar1st on a site-wide purge of any mention of "libertarian socialism"[edit]

A user requested that this thread be closed, so I've resurrected it for transparency. I see no consensus for a ban here, topic or otherwise. Several editors have raised concerns about Darkstar1st's editing behavior, both here and on his talk page, and I hope that he will take them to heart. HiDrNick! 03:01, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Darkstar1st (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) has declared on the Libertarianism talk page that libertarians should like capitalism and that libertarian socialism, libertarian communism and libertarian marxism are (apparently) some kind of myth. The editor has chosen to expunge that myth from WP by starting up edit wars on just about any page describing libertarian socialist politics:

None of these mentions of libsoc are the least bit controversial, to my knowledge, and the political groups in question all describe themselves as libertarian, as typically confirmed by native-language articles. Offering citations doesn't seem to make any difference at all, so I don't know how to proceed. fi (talk) 00:54, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Looked at the ref for PPK and Darkstar1st appears to be correct. All references to liberarianism are in reference to Öcalan, not PPK. Can't comment on others, but the user does seem to be editing specifically on this issue. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 01:38, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
The reference on PKK describes it as communalist, which is a strain of libertartarian socialism, and aligns it with Murray Bookchin, a prominent libertarian socialist. fi (talk) 01:54, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
We need an RS that says specifically that it's libertarian socialist. Otherwise it's OR. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 03:35, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
I don't understand. That document does specifically identify it as libertarian socialist unambiguously, in exactly the same way that a manifesto proclaiming Maoism would identify a group as Marxist-Leninist. Bookchin's communalism is a form of libertarian socialism, just like a lemon is a type citrus fruit. B ⊃ A fi (talk) 03:50, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
Actually, you're assuming the result you want. You say a lemon is a citrus fruit, but another editor objects, unless you have a citation from a reliable source that says that a lemon is a citrus fruit, you can't use that in an article. If someone disputes it, you need a citation from a reliable source that says Maoism is a form of Marxist-Leninism, or you can't use it. Does your source say specifically that "Bookchin's communalism is a form of libertarian socialism" (or words to that effect)? If it doesn't, then it's not the source you need. Your prior knowledge is not sufficient, you need a source. BMK (talk) 13:48, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
It doesn't specifically say it. EvergreenFir (talk) Please {{re}} 17:48, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
No, that's just patently silly. Wikipedia (on the articles for communalism, Murray Bookchin, libertarian socialism, for example) is absolutely plastered in references confirming that Bookchin's communalism is uncontroversially a type of libertarian socialism. What you're saying is like saying it's OR to call a "poet" a "writer" because a source explicitly called him a "poet" and there's no reference literally saying "writer." I'm not offering my personal knowledge as a reference; it's just documented all over Wikipedia that one is a superset of the other. A square is a rectangle, so we don't need a reference on something being a rectangle if we have a source saying it's a square. More importantly, the editor has not objected as you say and has brought no credible objection or dispute to the discussion. This is just a continuation of the abuse already on the editor's rap sheet. fi (talk) 19:04, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
"Common sense", for want of a better word, tells us that a lemon is a citrus fruit, and a poet is a writer. It tells us no such thing about the relationship between Bookchin's communalism and libertarian socialism. It is way outside the bounds of common knowledge, and therefore needs a source. BMK (talk) 21:20, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
Then "common sense" tells us, in the exact same way, that a Maoist is a Marxist-Leninist, especially when there's dozens of citations, all over WP, saying B ⊃ A -- same as references describing Bookchin, communalism and (shockingly) libertarian municipalism as libertarian. You can pick your favorite reference, but you're the first person to challenge this, as User:Darkstar1st did not. So, I don't even understand why we're talking about it. fi (talk) 21:39, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
How does common sense tell us that the World Socialist Party of the United States is libertarian socialist? Contrary to your claim upthread, I'm not aware of them ever having described themselves as such. —Psychonaut (talk) 17:51, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
WSPUS was the US contingent of the World Socialist Movement, which was described as libertarian socialist, for example, in Anarchy Magazine, Volume 3, 1963, page 178 (can't link directly, so search for "World Socialist Movement" and "non-state libertarian socialists"), among numerous other sources. "Common sense" would just be transitive logic. If we know where a superset belongs, we know how to describe a subset. fi (talk) 21:39, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
Transitive logic works only if you accept the premise. Perhaps you're not aware of just how contentious political labels can be? I'd advise you to find multiple reliable sources before slapping labels on political organizations, especially when (as in the current case) the organization itself rejects or has never used that label. —Psychonaut (talk) 14:40, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Whether a premise is wrong is another thing, while this is about validity: if A and B then also C. If someone's arguing that it's valid but unsound, could you please link me to the discussion? Like I said though, I am aware of zero controversy and I rather doubt WSPUS would have rejected being called libertarian Marxist (had the term been more widely used in the early 20th century) or libertarian socialist (had the term not been associated almost exclusively with anarchist communism then). It's just the most accurate description of their politics and it's not considered pejorative... not that it particularly matters if they *had* rejected it. Whether a group likes the label they're given or not is hardly the one criterion for verifiability. Anyway, I still don't understand why we're talking about this when Darkstar1st's only stated contention was that he doesn't like how libsoc exists, historically. fi (talk) 21:04, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
Again, it seems you're just making stuff up. Darkstar1st's stated contention for the removal in question was the reliability of the source, not with his distaste for the idea of libertarian socialism in general. You even linked to his edit summary upthread. (And as a matter of fact, your doubts about the label are without merit; the WSP(US) denies that it is "Marxist" so it's a safe bet it would also take issue with "libertarian Marxist".) Of course, disputes about our categorizations of parties are best resolved on article talk pages, not here. There's already a talk page discussion about the categorization of this particular party, to which you're welcome to contribute. —Psychonaut (talk) 22:19, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
What on earth are you even talking about? WSM and WSPUS were founded by anti-Bolshevik Classical Marxists. It's pretty much the first thing both articles say. So far as the editor in question and that editor's POV crusade, I can back up everything I've said with diffs, like the user's insistence that libertarian socialism isn't real libertarianism, refusal to enter into discussion and the removal of perfectly legitimate sources on statements contradicting that POV. I'm here to talk about that editor's conduct. fi (talk) 22:29, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
If you're trying to build a case for Darkstar1st's POV, then it help if you got the facts of your complaint straight, and demonstrated a modicum of familiarity with the examples you're invoking. First you stated upthread that Darkstar1st removed the "libertarian socialist" label from the WSP(US) article, even though you claim they "describe themselves as libertarian". However, the WSP(US) has never referred to itself as libertarian. Then you said that "Darkstar1st's only stated contention was that he doesn't like how libsoc exists" (my emphasis), though your own diffs show a variety of stated contentions on his part, including objections to the reliability of one citation (a perfectly reasonable argument, even though it proved to be mistaken) and to another's language (much less reasonable grounds, but still nothing to do with political ideology). Then you claim that the WSP(US) would refer to itself as Marxist, when in fact they have always quite vocally rejected this label. In short, I'd be taking your complaint a lot more seriously if it wasn't so easy to poke holes in your evidence. —Psychonaut (talk) 23:08, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
WSM is commonly labeled libertarian socialist and describes itself as Marxist, which takes all of ten seconds to verify. If you have some reason to believe both the WSM and WSPUS articles are 100% wrong in their descriptions of these groups, please fully rewrite these articles accordingly: articles presently describing anti-Leninist Classical Marxists. So far as Darkstar1st's removal of the source for being unreliable, that source was a pamphlet published by WSPUS, so I find it difficult to believe that the WSPUS is not a relevant source on the topic. There may be a worthwhile discussion to be had about whether this Marxist group (according to every source available on all relevant WP articles) is more accurately described as impossiblist, libsoc, both or neither, but the editor was not interested in having one. I encourage you to take your own advise and stay on topic. fi (talk) 23:23, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
The topic is your failure to present a coherent argument about Darkstar1st's disruptive editing. Neither the document you just cited nor the one Darkstar1st originally objected to say what you claim they say, and in this thread you continue to argue against strawmen. (I never said that the WSP(US) is not Marxist or libertarian socialist, and I never said that our articles shouldn't describe them as such.) I think I've seen enough of your line of reasoning (such as it is) to come to a conclusion as to what needs to be done here. —Psychonaut (talk) 08:53, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
Don't backpedal. Nearly everything you've tried to derail this with has been total nonsense and just factually wrong; e.g. apparently WSPUS is so adamant about rejecting allegations of Marxism that they devoted a quarter of their website to a "Study Guide to Marxism." I'm sorry you tried to grandstand and got called on it. Good call on bailing out. fi (talk) 09:17, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
  • In one edit Darkstar reverts the addition of a Spanish language source (in an article on a Chilean political party) with the edit summary "Engligh language sources only please". That is unjustified. We have no requirement for sources to be in English. For writing about political parties in non-English speaking countries particularly it would seem a particularly silly requirement.User:Maunus ·ʍaunus·snunɐw· 21:48, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
  • User:Finx may well be wrong, that is a content issue for discussion. However, if, as they claim, User:Darkstar1st is not discussing the disagreement, we have a behaviour issue. All the best: Rich Farmbrough18:45, 4 February 2015 (UTC).
    • A quick look shows that, for example, this edit by Darkstar1st does have an edit summary that points to the a discussion section on the talk page. I think, therefore, that it would be a better plan to engage on the article talk pages than pursue this AN/I. All the best: Rich Farmbrough18:54, 4 February 2015 (UTC).

On the face of it, this certainly appears to be a behavioural issue - and if Darkstar1st thinks that it is appropriate to remove all mention of a significant trend in the historical development of socialist thought from Wikipedia, as appears to be his/her objective, we need to do something about it. AndyTheGrump (talk) 22:25, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Note that, as of now, the user is still edit warring and Wikilawyering all over the place. I don't feel like getting into fifteen separate games of revert pong, so I'll just let this roll on until someone wants to do something about the continuing pattern of disruptive behavior. fi (talk) 23:28, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Recommend admin action. Well there is some pretty obvious POV pushing. It's a systematic removal of references to left wing libertarianism, presumably to POV push that it does not exist, and only right-wing libertarianism exists. So in effect it is vandalism, as a clear pattern has emerged. If left unhindered he may remove all mentions of left-wing libertarianism. --Mrjulesd (talk) 23:47, 4 February 2015 (UTC)
Comment: there's a larger problem involving libertarian editors and articles. For an example, look what's happened to our article on free society.[1] This kind of assimiliation of a non-libertarian topic, takeover, and OR is going on everywhere. Darkstar1st is only one of many editors engaging in this kind of behavior. Viriditas (talk) 03:42, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
Comment: I think part of the problem is that User:Finx is a bit clueless about citations and original research. (See example.) In the example, Citation A, did not support the statement, but Citation B did. User:Finx did not understand that Citation B needed to be by the statement, not Citation A. Regarding original research, User:Finx seems to think that if a party is socialist, and says it has liberal/libertarian values, that makes it a libertarian-socialist party. [The same non-English word translates as "liberal" or "libertarian".] What Darkstar1st seems to be trying to do is to clean up this kind of thing.-- Toddy1 (talk) 09:20, 5 February 2015 (UTC)
Okay, I don't stoop to personal attacks, but if you want to charge me with being "clueless" on ANI, let's review the absolutely mind-boggling level of incompetence you have displayed on the Freedom and Solidarity Party article. First of all, the citation already present before the titular POV warrior arrived used the word "özgürlükçü" which, beyond any reasonable doubt (as was explained), translates to "libertarian" in this context. So, no further citation was even needed. Assuming good faith, however, (and way beyond what is reasonable) the very first thing I did was add an inline English-language citation from a respected authority on the subject with a quote that just could not possibly be any clearer: "the ODP, or Freedom and Solidarity Party, is a Turkish socialist libertarian party founded in 1996." This was removed and ignored. When I pointed this out, it was ignored again by both yourself and the POV warrior, followed by complaints about the original reference using "özgürlükçü" instead of "liberter" -- which are synonyms, as can be seen here. When that objection clearly fell apart, the Wikilawyering moved on to ridiculous claims of OR: it's OR to assume that political groups claiming to be libertarian are... libertarian. I mean, this is just comedy. "Liberal" and "libertarian" are mutually exclusive groups: one is capitalist, the other, in this (and practically any) context, anticapitalist. That is also not original research. It's the most basic level of comprehension you can have on the topic. Libertarian, outside of its isolated use in the US as another word for advocacy of laissez faire "free market" capitalism, universally means socialist. The libertarian qualifier in libsoc qualifies the type of socialism (to distinguish from state-socialism), not the other way around, i.e. the type of libertarianism. When a socialist political organization declares itself libertarian, that means one thing only: libertarian socialism. If you are this confused or just know absolutely nothing about these topics, why not ask for clarification instead of calling others "clueless"? And, speaking of clueless, I invite you to find me one article on Wikipedia -- or anywhere else for that matter -- where "özgürlükçü" translates to liberal, let alone where that's a reasonable translation in the context of describing far-left socialist groups. The only thing in your contributions so far that would have even vaguely resembled a rational thought -- had it been concerning a non-socialist party -- is based off a funny Google translation error which you couldn't be bothered to verify when it produced an obvious absurdity. fi (talk) 10:48, 5 February 2015 (UTC)

Site ban proposal for User:Darkstar1st[edit]

Normally I would recommend a topic ban from libertarianian-related articles, but the editor's history shows that he has not made a positive contribution anywhere, and has carried out this type of editing in other areas such as the Tea Party movement. He's had years to change, but seems more interested in conflict than improvement of articles. So probably best to ban the editor and avoid having to discuss him at ANI again and again. TFD (talk) 17:00, 7 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Site ban for Darkstar1st. This battleground behavior and tendentious editing has been going on for years in many articles related to his interests. He has failed to respond to the many requests and warnings to stop. There's no reason to believe that his behavior will improve in the future. I think he has exhausted the patience that has been extended to him. SPECIFICO talk 04:56, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose any action against Darkstar1st. The editor who brought this complaint has failed to make a coherent case for any serious disruption by Darkstar1st, willful or otherwise. Most of the edits I've checked seem to be correctly, or at least plausibly, tagging or removing claims which are not supported by citations. And for cases where the edits are disputed he has requested and/or engaged in talk page discussions. He seems to have been confused about the acceptability of non-English sources, though solving that ought to have involved drawing his attention to WP:NONENG rather than dragging him to WP:ANI. —Psychonaut (talk) 08:53, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
@Psychonaut:This disruptive behavior is just the latest in a long history of such conduct in articles on related subjects. This user repeatedly either ignores or fails to understand warnings and guidance as to behavioral and sourcing policy. He's been blocked numerous times for misconduct. Unfortunately, there is no reason to expect things to get any better. SPECIFICO talk 19:29, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose At worst he got into an edit war on Equality_Party_(Chile), but it was such a slow burning edit war that he never came close to violating WP:3RR (and he wasn't trying to game the system either doing reverts every 24 hours) and he tried to just use tags for the part he thought failed verification but those were removed. He did misunderstand WP:NONENG and removed sources that were not in English. And I should note that when WP:NONENG was pointed out to him on his talk page he said "thank you both for the clarification. Mea culpa" This is far from siteban worthy (I don't think it is even topic ban worthy). --Obsidi (talk) 13:23, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
Like I said below, it made no difference if the sources were in English and it made no difference if they said what the article said, verbatim. Nothing was read or considered. If previous comments on the talk pages of libertarianism, libertarian socialism, etc, are any indication, it's hard to imagine how one can suspend enough disbelief to see this behavior as something done in good faith. Nonsense like this seems to happen all the time and I'm tired of it, for one. fi (talk) 17:43, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
The only English source that he removed did not support the statement (sense been corrected by a different editor). --Obsidi (talk) 06:27, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
That is absolutely, 100% false as I've already explained three times now, here and on the article's talk page. fi (talk) 06:51, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support per clearly WP:NOTHERE "Having a long-term or "extreme" history that suggests a marked lack of value for the project's actual aims and methods". His editing resembles a WP:SPA purely to WP:POVPUSH his view that libertarian socialism is not a movement, and thus removes references to libertarian socialism from numerous articles, To further his cause he uses edit-warring, pretends he can't translate, and uses the deceitful practices of double-editing (first removing the reference and tagging, then removing the actual statement a few hours later). This whole process causes considerable time wasting and acrimony. This isn't just recent behavior but a long-term problem, just look at his record. WP would be a better place without him. --Mrjulesd (talk) 15:38, 10 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. I wasn't sure until reading the objections, but now it's clear that this is all pretty disingenuous, and that some people are just repeating the same falsehoods in defense of this user, no matter what anyone says. Five years is plenty of time for someone to change their behavior. fi (talk) 06:58, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose. Wikipedia works best if people question flaky citations, and that is what Darkstar1st has been doing. Finx and Mrjulesd feel threatened by that and so are campaigning to have Darkstar1st blocked. This is wrong. Various editors have looked into their objections to Darkstar1st, and found that the accusations did not really stand up. Mrjulesd claimed that Darkstar1st was edit warring in a report at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/3RRArchive271#User:Darkstar1st reported by User:Mrjulesd (Result: declined, leaving up to WP:ANI), but when I looked into the accusations, the case against Darkstar1st had been overstated, and Finx and Mrjulesd had edit-warred just as much on the page in question as Darkstar1st, and none of them had broken the 3 revert rule. As for accusations of POV pushing - Finx and Mrjulesd make statements like: "non-Marxist communists are generally known as libertarians"!-- Toddy1 (talk) 08:49, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
For the context on that quote, which is totally and verifiably true in context (as explained in the article on anarchist a.k.a. libertarian communism), see this discussion thread started by Darkstar1st's wanting to remove libsoc from the article on libertarianism. I find it hilarious that I'm supposed to be in some kind of conspiracy with Mrjulesd, who only stepped into this matter after seeing it on ANI, AFAIK. fi (talk) 09:39, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
Look if we're all wrong he really needs to come to ANI to defend his position, and give an explanation for his editing patterns. These are serious allegations, his lack of input here is plainly unsatisfactory. --Mrjulesd (talk) 11:58, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support. Have we really been discussing this problem for five years? I think that's enough time to come to a decision. Viriditas (talk) 08:57, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support with WP:STANDARDOFFER, which would of course entail a topic ban if he were ever reinstated. If someone so clearly WP:NOTHERE is to get the message, he needs an indef ban. Softlavender (talk) 09:53, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose, why are people complaining that Darkstar1st removed political labels which had no reference? Finx is adding labels with no reference or bad references, so Finx is breaking policy, not Darkstar1st. Spumuq (talq) 12:19, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
Where have I done this? None of those labels were originally added by me and I was usually not the first to revert their removal. I did provide sources on four occasions: three from the concerned parties' own publications, one from a respected American academic and authority on regional politics and several others on talk pages (from pertinent and well known political journals, Kevin Carson's think tank, etc). I'm not sure where I broke policy. fi (talk) 13:27, 11 February 2015 (UTC)
A lot of articles about socialist groups are old and have few if any references. Your first example, Socialist Party (Netherlands, interbellum) is entirely unsourced. Rather than improve articles on socialism, Darkstar1st has decided to remove any reference to libertarianian in them, believing that libertarianism and socialism are incompatible. He has also as mentioned above removed sources before deleting text, and argues that reliable sources are using incorrect translations when they call foreign groups libertarian. But it is no defense at ANI to say one is right - that is an issue of content that should be decided in the relevant content noticeboards. Right or wrong, editors must work collaboratively with others, which Darkstar1st vehemently refuses to do. TFD (talk) 05:09, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
I think you are mistaken. If you look at (for example) Talk:Freedom and Solidarity Party you will see useful collaborative behaviour by Darkstar1st, Mrjulesd, Finx and other editors that resulted in better citations in the article. None of that would have happened if Darkstar1st had not questioned a the citation to the statement that the party were socialist libertarians.-- Toddy1 (talk) 21:43, 12 February 2015 (UTC)
Actually, this is just the latest in a succession of clueless campaigns of POV editing and WP:IDONTHEAR from Darkstar1st. For example he has repeatedly tried to insert ill-sourced contentious material about Paul Krugman and other left-of-center figures, and he tried repeatedly to portray Adolf Hitler and Nazism as a leftist socialist. Check his contributions if you wish to familiarize yourself with his history. SPECIFICO talk 22:24, 12 February 2015 (UTC)

  • Oppose Draconian solutions are very rarely wise, and I see no evidence that this is an exception. Wikipedia does not benefit from removing editors of disparate opinions, and I see no reason why this should be an exception from that precept either. Collect (talk) 11:56, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Topic Ban Even if some edits aren't technically against the rules (such as deleting unsourced), Rules are principles, and the larger impact has been disruptive and not intended to improve the wiki. ηoian ‡orever ηew ‡rontiers 12:02, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
Comment It looks like this will go the way of no-consensus. Perhaps ArbCom would be better if both sides of the argument have issues with one another? ηoian ‡orever ηew ‡rontiers 18:15, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment Normally i would agree with you, but have you looked at his history? See the content in "Examples of past disruption" below. This is long term abuse. --Mrjulesd (talk) 22:14, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose It's apparent from a little research that routinely getting honest editors banned is used as a tactic to remove them from the consensus pool, resulting in a consensus of a dedicated few for politically motivated bias in several articles. This attempt is just another example of this effort. Blue Eyes Cryin (talk) 21:43, 15 February 2015 (UTC) Blue Eyes Cryin (talkcontribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
User:BlueEyesCryin seems to be a single-purpose account, thus a tag seems appropriate per WP:SPA. El duderino (abides) 21:16, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment So far all you have have done is contributed to Talk:Libertarianism a few times, an active interest of User:Darkstar1st. And you support his views. That and two userspace posts, and this post here. Are you in anyway connected to User:Darkstar1st? It looks a lot like a sock account. Maybe WP:SPI will be interested. --Mrjulesd (talk) 23:09, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Then take it up with WP:SPI. Maybe you'll succeed in getting me banned, too, strengthening the consensus for the politically motivated bias I pointed out above. Blue Eyes Cryin (talk) 23:47, 15 February 2015 (UTC)
  • "Maybe you'll succeed in getting me banned" are you admitting it then? Btw can't you realise you've doing been doing wrong? It's one thing to have political views, but it's another thing completely to try to bias WP articles for your cause. If you want to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS you're in the wrong place. --Mrjulesd (talk) 00:13, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Your false and dishonest accusations and bullying tactics won't work on me. May peace be with you. Blue Eyes Cryin (talk) 00:29, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Comment just in case anyone thinks this is recent behaviour take a look at the archive [2]. Here are a few choice examples:
Examples of past disruption

Edit warring:

There are plenty more complaints against him. @The Four Deuces:, as proposer do you also support a site ban? I think you should make this clear. @The Four Deuces: --Mrjulesd (talk) 13:49, 13 February 2015 (UTC)

  • Support the ban, clearly Darkstar1st is unable to edit neutrally on contentious topics. I recall seeing their name as a part of the (relevant?)Tea Party arbcom procedures where, afaict, they seemed to have escaped direct sanctions -- yet should have taken that inclusion as a clear warning. El duderino (abides) 20:43, 16 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Regrettable support All other measures have failed to deter Darkstar from tendentious editing. A site ban will prevent further disruption from him, and also deter future editors from following a similar path. Steeletrap (talk) 04:26, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose nowhere has anyone shown that the edits were wrong. If we want people to be WP:BOLD and require WP:RS and removal of material that isn't sourced ought to be common practice - why we retain unsourced junk is beyond me, but no one's removal of it ought to get him or her banned. Carlossuarez46 (talk) 02:10, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose - I echo Carlos S. Some of the evidence against Darkstar1 relates to his attempt to correct a listing of the World Socialist Party as "libertarian socialist." WSP is Marxist, yes. It is part of the Impossibilist tradition, for those of you familiar with the concept. It might even be spun as "Anti-Leninist" and certainly has taken a role critical of Soviet-style socialism. But "libertarian socialist"?!? I just had a look at the WP piece Libertarian Marxism and it is one of the biggest crocks of original research BS that I've seen on Wikipedia... All DS1 did is put up a "citation needed" template for that extremely........dubious....... categorization of the WSP. Kudos. I'd have removed it altogether if I were editing the piece. In short: this smells like the steamrolling of an inconvenient editor rather than addressing an authentic NOTHERE issue. I don't see anything rising to the level of a site ban. Carrite (talk) 16:35, 18 February 2015 (UTC)
Whether you agree with the label or not, there's plenty of sources, from at least as early as 1963 calling the WSM and WSPUS "libertarian socialist." fi (talk) 11:54, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Oppose, but with a short leash attacked. Edit warring non-English sources out of an article is not a particularly good idea unless you're very, very sure they don't say what's claimed. --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 17:10, 18 February 2015 (UTC)

Restored this section from archive: Request admin attention[edit]

I've restored this section from the archive Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive872#User:Darkstar1st_on_a_site-wide_purge_of_any_mention_of_.22libertarian_socialism.22 as he is back to his old tricks: removing references to libertarian socialism.,_interbellum%29&diff=prev&oldid=646028553

He previously removed references to these ideologies, put on tags, and now he is removing the socialist libertariansim, pretending that he did not put on these tags.,_interbellum%29&diff=645669261&oldid=645538134

I've reported him for edit warring, which is pending. Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Edit_warring#User:Darkstar1st_reported_by_User:Mrjulesd_.28Result:_.29

Also see the original diffs. Definite POV pattern to his editing, I request admin action.

--Mrjulesd (talk) 13:33, 7 February 2015 (UTC)

Note: I've invited Darkstar1st to join this conversation, and let them know that the discussion is currently moving towards their being blocked. -- The Anome (talk) 14:52, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I don't care if he is changing 100 articles, if he is doing so for good policy based reasons. To ask for a source for a disputed claim is fine (which is what most of his edits have been). He did get into a bit of an edit war on Equality_Party_(Chile). That was wrong, he should have gone to the talk page after he got reverted. He did remove some content that was sourced to a site in a foreign language, he should have asked for a translation if he disputed it before removing. Other then that I don't see the problem --Obsidi (talk) 18:28, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Doesn't that suggest a POV pusher? Removing references to "Libertarian" from lots of socialist political parties? And that's all he's been doing. And there are ample references he's ignoring. There is a definite pattern to his editing suggesting heavy POV against libertarian socialism, like he doesn't like that it exists. --Mrjulesd (talk) 19:47, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
WP:POVPUSH Editing a POV in an article that corresponds with one's own personal beliefs is not necessarily POV-pushing. If there are references he is ignoring, first make sure that he is aware of them, and then it becomes behavior issue if he continues. Demanding sources and removing unsourced labels (until a source is provided) even on multiple pages is not quite enough to be a problem. If he was repeatedly adding, especially fringe material or expanding sections beyond what would be due weight that would be far more of a problem which is what POV pushing is. --Obsidi (talk) 01:55, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
The editor "asked" for sources and then deleted them when they were provided, or when clarification on the correct and already present sources was offered. fi (talk) 21:17, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
I did see a few that he removed even after a source was provided because the source was not in English. That was wrong. And if he persists and keeps removing it, he should be blocked until he acknowledges that he cannot remove sourced material just because it isn't in English. So far I have seen him remove stuff cited in other languages because it wasn't in English, but after it was added back in he doesn't appear to have kept removing it (meaning a block isn't yet appropriate for that). --Obsidi (talk) 01:57, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
... removed sources in English that stated what the article said word-for-word, as well. There were up to six or seven reverts on about dozen separate articles, each. Indiscriminate mass deletions by political POV warriors call for a complete topic ban, at the very least, IMO, though I'm tempted to agree with TFD that it might be too lenient in this case. Honestly, the editor above who pointed out that US libertarians are a site-wide problem hit the nail right on the head. I don't know of any other political group here that causes so many problems repeatedly, or spends so much time on shameless appropriation and recuperation of absolutely anything that has some imaginary tenuous connection to the USLP marketing campaign. The issue, as far as I can see, is religious fanaticism. fi (talk) 03:45, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
Can you provide diffs for those in which he "removed sources in English that stated what the article said word-for-word"? There are a lot of different articles and lots of different edits, I have been through all the diffs posted on this thread so far. --Obsidi (talk) 06:17, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
sure fi (talk) 06:26, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
So I followed the link for the source cited in the diff and got "Aradığınız sayfa sistemde kayıtlı değildir" which is Turkish for "System is not registered on the page you are looking for" did you get something different? Oh, I see now, your talking about the ref to the book (he didn't remove any content just the ref to the book) I am not sure why he did that, that doesn't seem right. His edit summary seems to be related to the other two edits he made about the weird Turkish page not found message. --Obsidi (talk) 07:00, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
Maybe he felt that it did not support the statement. The text in Wikipedia is "The prominent grouping within the party is Revolutionary Solidarity (former Devrimci Yol (Revolutionary Path) - also known as Dev-Yol) which was formed following the split of Libertarian Socialism Platform in 2007." But the source only says "The remnant of Del Yol, now called the Libertarian Socialism Platform, is also a member of the ODP." Close, but a bit different (or at least doesn't support all the sentence). --Obsidi (talk) 07:15, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
The source explicitly says: "the a Turkish socialist libertarian party" -- which was made clear about four or five times, by my count. fi (talk) 07:32, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes it does, and like I said that is a good source for that. But he removed the reference in the diff above for a different sentence not dealing with if it is a socialist libertarian party. --Obsidi (talk) 12:31, 9 February 2015 (UTC)
It does not matter if an editor is following content policy and is not something we can decide here. TFD (talk) 18:51, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

───────────────────────── There is a discussion above about a possible site ban for Darkstar1st. I have just created the heading "Site ban proposal for User:Darkstar1st". Please give your views there. --Mrjulesd (talk) 02:06, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Active edit war on 1RR-sanctioned article Tony Abbott[edit]

Indeed, it has been sorted – user blocked for 24 hours at WP:ANEW. --IJBall (talk) 07:43, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
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There is an active edit war on Tony Abbott, which is already subject to 1RR per the talk page. Could an admin please block the participants to cool things down a bit? kthxbye --Surturz (talk) 05:55, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Apologies, I think this has already been sorted: [3] --Surturz (talk) 06:00, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

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Account blocked indefinitely. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 11:58, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
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This user has attempted to create an unambiguously promotional article about themselves (?) three times, with references from self-authored blog posts. The first two was Sagar Rana, and now Sagar Rana Computer Programmer. I tagged the page for speedily deletion, however User:Patrick938 has removed it: [4] The user has a history of removing speedily deletion tags and has already been warned so: [5] ☃ Unicodesnowman (talk) 08:55, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

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Procedure not followed on Chabad article[edit]

In the wake of a notable legal scandal in Australia involving Chabad rabbis, a relatively new user VanEman (talk · contribs) added a substantial paragraph to the Chabad article,[6] which he later, rightfully, turned into a new section.[7] A little while later, he added a paragraph of almost the same length as the previous one to the lead.[8] I reverted that edit, arguing that it is not lead material.[9] I later explained this argument in more detail in a second revert, in view of the fact that Chabad is a worldwide organization with some 250 years of history.[10]

After posting on VanEman's talkpage,[11][12] the edit war stopped, and a discussion ensued at Talk:Chabad#Child_sexual_abuse. I later thanked VanEman for stopping the edit war and starting the discussion.[13]

Then suddenly came along user Murry1975 (talk · contribs) and restored the text under discussion.[14] This he did in disregard of the fact that the discussion had started just shortly before that and only 3 editors (VanEman, me and him) had expressed their opinions so far. Not to mention that he himself had agreed in the discussion that the paragraph was definitely too long for the lead.[15]

I argued on the talkpage discussion a few times that this restore went against procedure, but Murry1975 ignores that argument completely. He does feel the need to accuse me of WP:CENSORED, WP:IDLI, WP:COI and WP:CALMDOWN (not necessarily in that order). Just to mention that Murry1975 is not a novice editor. I also posted one nice post on his talkpage,[16] to see if official dispute resolution could be avoided. Unfortunately, either I am wrong in my understanding of whether Murry1975 should have restored that new and large paragraph, or Murry1975 refuses to bow to reason.

I'd like for someone to point Murry1975 to the fact that restoring the paragraph under discussion was for various reasons the wrong call. In addition, of course, I'd like for somebody to remove it again, until a consensus emerges as to if we should mention this subject in the lead at all, and if so, at what length. Debresser (talk) 22:22, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) I think you're looking for WP:Dispute resolution, unless you're here asking for an admin to misuse their tools to enforce your preferred version. Ivanvector (talk) 22:52, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Asking for someone to remove something you dont like so you can get around the 3RR? WP:GAMING. Yes DRn is a better route. Murry1975 (talk) 22:57, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Ivanvector 1. Neither rebuking another editor for a wrong call nor reverting involves admin tools. 2. In my experience, which is considerable, reverting to a pre-conflict version is a normal step, which an admin may or may not opt for. In any case it would certainly not be a "wrong" choice. 3. No, I came here for an admin to review Murry1975's following of procedures. WP:DR would be about the dispute itself, which we can discuss ourselves on the talkpage, as soon as all editors are reminded that there are rules to be followed. Debresser (talk) 23:12, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
(Non-administrator comment) As of this moment, Debresser, the most recent edit to the article is yours, so I'm not exactly sure what your complaint is. Erpert blah, blah, blah... 00:23, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I made it with the explicit consent of Murry1975, who said I too could shorten the text. I had 2 requests: 1. I'd like for someone to point Murry1975 to the fact that restoring the paragraph under discussion was for various reasons the wrong call. 2. I'd like someone to remove that text from the lead, until a consensus emerges as to if we should mention this subject in the lead at all, and if so, at what length. Debresser (talk) 05:12, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
It took me a minute to get this one...I was going to say that if Murry agrees that you should shorten the text, go for it, but...if Murry is right and you are reaching out here for someone else to do it for you so that you can avoid 3RR, that would indeed be gaming (not to mention borderline WP:MEAT). Then again, if you both agree, why is this discussion even here? Erpert blah, blah, blah... 08:47, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Our disagreement is that I hold this material is not notable enough for the lead, while the two other editors think it is. Shortening was fine with them. Discussion was interrupted by Murry1975's restore of the (then still unshortened) paragraph to the lead. My position is that Murry1975 should know that that was the wrong thing to do in the situation, and yes, I want him to undo his out of procedure restore. WP:BRD is clear about who the burden of proof lies with. Not to mention that this is very rude behavior, to take unilateral steps in the mids of a discussion. His subsequent baseless accusations, as listed above, also are unacceptable. Debresser (talk) 13:27, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

User:C.Syde65 Loves Me![edit]


Can we block as impersonation of User:C.Syde65. Amortias (T)(C) 22:38, 19 February 2015 (UTC)

I left the {subst:ANI-notice} template on their talk page. Weegeerunner (talk) 22:41, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
User has been blocked indefinitely. Nakon 22:42, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
Is an obvious sock of someone but I cant find the SPI to add it to the list of. Amortias (T)(C) 22:46, 19 February 2015 (UTC)
A list of the other sock-puppets belonging to this user can be found here. They've been causing trouble for me and a couple of other editors of the Sims wiki. Since then, they have tracked me and another Sims wiki editor down here on the wikipedia. They have also tracked me down at ModtheSims, and various other wikis that I contribute to, including my test wiki.
I've already had to report this user to wikia staff. I can block this user and their sock-puppets on my test wiki, and I can add them to my ignore list at ModtheSims. But other than that, this is a situation which I am unable to deal with alone. -- C.Syde (talk | contribs) 00:41, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
You should file a sockpuppet report and get a checkuser involved, so that the underlying IP can be blocked. -- Diannaa (talk) 02:30, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
I've already reported him to wikia staff, and his IP addresses have been blocked across the wikia network, along with some of his accounts on wikia. However I don't know whether this affects his ability to edit in the wikipedia network. Also from what I've seen, 1) he probably edits from more than one IP address, 2) his IP addresses are dynamic, or 3) wikia staff have not disabled his IP range to the point where he is unable to edit while logged in. Who knows? I guess we'll just have to block each account of his that comes along. It would be tedious, but according to a message I got from wikia staff several months before, it does eventually help. -- C.Syde (talk | contribs) 03:00, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive872#Persistent harassment, sockpuppetry, and vandalism by long-term disruptive editor and Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive872#Persistent harassment, sockpuppetry, and vandalism by long-term disruptive editor - Again. This user has been at it for months, if not years. --I am k6ka Talk to me! See what I have done 03:49, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
Looking at these links, I see I am the third user to suggest filing at WP:SPI so as to get a check-user involved. Perhaps there's the possibility of blocking the underlying IPs or doing a range block. We can place blocks that prevent anyone from creating new accounts from a given IP or IP range. Blocks placed at Wikia have no effect on this wiki. -- Diannaa (talk) 04:34, 20 February 2015 (UTC)
Okay, but I unfortunately don't feel quite ready to file a report at WP:SPI myself. I thought that blocks placed at wikia would have had no effect on this wiki. But it would be good to have a range block here, since what they're doing here is more annoying than what they're doing on wikia. -- C.Syde (talk | contribs) 05:36, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

────────────────────── @C.Syde65: Blocks on Wikia have zero effect here on Wikipedia because Wikipedia and Wikia are two different websites hosted on different servers.

As for the SPI, I may file one myself when I have time. --I am k6ka Talk to me! See what I have done 12:19, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

I realized that, although I hadn't really given this fact some real thought until now. -- C.Syde (talk | contribs) 02:32, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
The user's IP range was blocked from editing the Sims wiki. I repeated this action on my test wiki. It seems that they're still able to edit from their IP addresses while logged in, which creates the impression that they're managing to get around the range blocks. -- C.Syde (talk | contribs) 10:10, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
That's because it's Wikia, not Wikipedia. Remember that they're two different websites. --I am k6ka Talk to me! See what I have done 13:01, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
I know. What I was thinking was that maybe if Wikipedia blocked his IP range, then it might stop him from disrupting us here. What he's doing here is far more annoying than what he does on wikia. Because it's obvious that if he tries to disrupt me on my test wiki, I'll just block him, and if he tries to disrupt anyone on the Sims wiki, one of the admins will block him. -- C.Syde (talk | contribs) 19:50, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
An IP range block doesn't stop people from using proxies on a different range to bypass the block (proxies are, by the way, strictly forbidden here). Secondly, I'm not sure if you truly understand the severity of the situation, as this user is being more than just annoying. A number of their revisions had to be hidden due to legal issues. I did send an email to but got no response.
Oh, and can you please stop mentioning your test wiki? Like, nobody cares what you do on your own little corner of the web. What matters more is what happens here. --I am k6ka Talk to me! See what I have done 22:35, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
I do understand the severity of the issue. My biggest fear was if they were somehow able to trick wikia staff into believing that we were impersonating them, not the other way around. The account "C.Syde55" was globally disabled because I asked wikia staff to do it. Think what might have happened if the imposter had beaten me to it.
The user is being more than just annoying, but as long as nothing they do works, and if the really bad things they do get removed from the public eye, it can't be fatal, can it? I wasn't fully aware that IP proxies were forbidden here. I know I shouldn't mention my test wiki, but I felt I needed another reference. -- C.Syde (talk | contribs) 07:00, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
@C.Syde65: Wikia Staff aren't stupid. Since you have 1. No history of cross-wiki vandalism and 2. I've reported numerous sockpuppets to them already, you will not be blocked yourself if someone shows up with a username similar to yours, unless you openly disclose that said account belonged to you. A CheckUser will most likely prove that the account doesn't belong to you. If you have not been socking, that's what the CU will prove 99% of the time.
Again, saying that this isn't "fatal" isn't understanding the true severity of the situation. The issue is not physical abuse, but mental abuse and online harassment, which often flies under the radar. We have reached a point where I have had to send an email to Wikimedia's legal department. How is that "if nothing they do works [...] it can't be fatal"? The issue here is not a user going on a murdering spree, but the user cyberbullying online users. Cyberbullying is not okay, and it should not be taken lightly. Mental and emotional abuse takes time and is not immediately evident to other people, and even less so over the Internet. Someone that doesn't show any symptoms now could show those symptoms ten or fifteen years in the future. We're here to show this user that cyberbullying is not okay and what they're doing right now will have consequences. Annoying? Yes. Serious? Absolutely. --I am k6ka Talk to me! See what I have done 15:41, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/K6kaisasockpuppet. --I am k6ka Talk to me! See what I have done 18:03, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
I'm just not easily shaken by cyberbullying, since I've trained myself to let it bounce off me, or otherwise just ignore it. I still understand that cyberbullying is not okay, and I wholeheartedly agree on the idea of trying to show this user that cyberbullying is not okay, even if they know it already.
So there's no chance of me being accused of being an im-poster. I thought it might not have been the case, but all the same, I couldn't help but feel a little concerned. -- C.Syde (talk | contribs) 19:48, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
My main account is Fredfiggglehorn and all the socks are by him!!!!!! K6ka1 (talk) 13:36, 26 February 2015 (UTC)


User indef blocked for vandalism by Yunshui. --IJBall (talk) 16:38, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
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I would like to request a block on this user as he has vandalised a number of articles including Braniel‎ "(Richie McSorley takes up most of the space" and Linfield F.C. as well as creating a hoax page Bradley mcrobbie. Thanks Gbawden (talk) 12:56, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

He's been duly shown the door. Yunshui  12:59, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for the fast response! Super service :) Gbawden (talk) 13:04, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

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IP account blocked for 2 weeks by TomStar81. --IJBall (talk) 16:41, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
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At regular intervals (at most every few days or so, sometimes multiple times in one day), some new IP pops up and starts a war against the word "Palestine", changing Palestine into Israel or into Palestinian territories and adding Israel to places not in Israel, with no explanation or a useless or rude explanation. The latest is Every single edit is of that nature. I'm tempted to block it as a vandalism-only account, but I wonder if I'm too "involved" (I edit in this area). Can some other admin do it please? I'd also be interested in the opinions of other admins as to whether I could handle this myself. On the surface it's a "content dispute" but everyone familiar with the area, including this IP, knows full well that it isn't. Thanks. Zerotalk 13:43, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Blocked for a period of two weeks. TomStar81 (Talk) 13:47, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
(Non-administrator comment) And his edits have been undone. All is well in the world again. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 7 Adar 5775 14:54, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

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Vandalism: adding Single-purpose_account tags[edit]

Close. There is nothing to this. Drmies (talk) 18:12, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
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Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) is falsly accusing users of Wikipedia:Single-purpose_account in an attempt to belittle or redicule their arguments. Please take a look at these false attributions on Talk:Age_disparity_in_sexual_relationships and issue a warning to prevent further trolling. (talk) 17:49, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

I can say from experience that the OP IP is a WP:TEND WP:SPA. Juggling stuff, will be back with diffs in a bit. Ian.thomson (talk) 17:58, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
  • I just found something delicious on that talk page: "Awesome self published book from, best $100 the author spent." I don't know who wrote it, but I'm going to borrow it. Drmies (talk) 18:06, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
  • RAN, SPA tags are usually little more than a way for other SPA editors to vent a little, to put a scarlet letter on someone. No one needs the tags, certainly not a closer in an RfC (if they're worth their salt). Besides, I never cared for them on principle: an argument should stand or fall with the argument, not with who utters it. Having said that, IP, please stop bitching: I'm going to close this because it disfigures my beautiful ANI board, and you've been at this topic (from this IP), and almost no other, since 4 January. Drmies (talk) 18:11, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

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Richard Thomas (author)[edit]

Non-admin closure by OP, as complainant has proved completely co-operative, and there are no more ANI issues. Further discussion belongs on Talk page of article or user. Choor monster (talk) 19:44, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
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An SPA Wickerkat (talk · contribs) has padded out, since 2011, the Richard Thomas (author) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) article to ridiculous extent, essentially putting Thomas' entire CV in the article. I removed most of it earlier today, and Wickerkat has restored it. More experienced judgment calls would be desirable. I also believe there are problems with BLP sourcing and the like, but I haven't looked too hard. Choor monster (talk) 18:07, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

A blue-linked WP:NOTAMAZON would be useful here. --NeilN talk to me 18:12, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Reverted it and left them a note about unsourced information. The additions removed included direct links to the purchasing pages on amazon, large amounts of unsourced BLP additions and WP:MOS issues all over the place and external linking issues that I stopped counting when I got to 20. Amortias (T)(C) 18:14, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
I should point out that published fiction is normally its own source, and that there were references (but whose quality I did not check too seriously) in the SPA version which I removed, leaving the article without any references. Clean-up is needed, but perhaps the SPA has to get the message first. I should also point out I may have removed too much (some of the awards I deleted might actually be of interest and be sourceable) but like NeilN, giving up is a lot easier. Choor monster (talk) 18:23, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Will have to see how it goes if they're willing to discuss inclusion of the material properly sourced thats one think but blanket reinstating advertising and unsourced information to a BLP needs to be kept watch of.Amortias (T)(C) 18:27, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Not giving up, the article first has to be drastically trimmed, then built up properly again if sourced properly. Book lists should contain notable works, not every single thing the subject has written. The editor also touched Stephen Graham Jones which was in similar shape, including a copyright violation. --NeilN talk to me 18:33, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
The books do not need to be individually notable. See WP:LISTN. Choor monster (talk) 13:15, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Which is balanced by WP:NOTDIR. I agree the entries do not have to be notable enough to have their own articles but for authors with many works, we should be using something more than "it exists" as an inclusion criteria. --NeilN talk to me 14:23, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
You stated before, "Book lists should contain notable works", and that was what is incorrect. Either the book list is appropriate, or it isn't. Actually, nothing about NOTDIR suggests author bibliographies are inappropriate. Meanwhile, I am opposed to short story lists in general (I am agreeing with the rest of your sentence). The most notable writers, where RS's hang on their every word, yes. The rest, no, because of WP:UNDUE. Choor monster (talk) 16:35, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
The situation is analogous to "Likewise an article on a business should not contain a list of all the company's patent filings." --NeilN talk to me 00:15, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
I welcomed the editor and left them a long note, then went hunting for sources. I've added what I could but wound up nominating the article for deletion. Yngvadottir (talk) 21:32, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Just a quick note that from the last few edits to their talk page, Wickerkat is actually the author himself. Blackmane (talk) 00:24, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
  • As the OP, I will comment that Wickerkat/Richard Thomas has been completely co-operative, there is ongoing discussion on his user talk page, so if there are no objections, I will non-admin close this discussion tomorrow. Thank you everybody. Choor monster (talk) 13:15, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

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Indef'ed by Diannaa for copyvio. G S Palmer (talkcontribs) 19:46, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
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Atlantisch (talk · contribs) is an SPA who only edits the article about Prof. Aisin-Gioro Ulhicun and articles related to Ulhicun's areas of research, mostly adding links to papers written by Ulhicun or updating the list of her works. Atlantisch's editing has been fairly benign until recently when they copied and pasted the entire contents of a self-promotional paper on the Academic Achievements of Prof. AISIN GIORO Ulhicun into the Aisin-Gioro Ulhicun article. I have had to revert the addition of this material five times over the past few days, and as they are not willing to engage in discussion and show no indication that they are prepared to follow Wikipedia policies, I think some sort of sanction is in order. BabelStone (talk) 18:37, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Blocked. -- Diannaa (talk) 19:41, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
@Diannaa: There is one more revision that needs deletion, found here -- Orduin Discuss 19:48, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Ok, I will get it when I get home from work. Thanks, -- Diannaa (talk) 20:28, 26 February 2015 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ninja Diannaa (talkcontribs)

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Vandalising user and personal attacks[edit]

User indef blocked by Rjd0060. --IJBall (talk) 20:44, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


User Vhjhv is a vandalism only account, who continues to send personal attacks on his talk page. He shows no signs of stopping and I think admin intervention is necessary at this point. Weegeerunner (talk) 19:05, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

You will probably get a more prompt response, Weegeerunner, if you file a complaint at Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism noticeboard. Liz Read! Talk! 19:58, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Blocked. Rjd0060 (talk) 20:00, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

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The Rashidun Caliphate article[edit]


I and some other users are having a disagreement about how the Rashidun caliphate page should be edited.

I have decide to take this up with the administrators because it seems that every single edit I have made has been deleted, and is now no longer found even on the revision history page.

Some users there feel that I should not be removing so much information, which I guess is a reasonable debate. THe problem is that in spite of my requests to talk about changse atomically, every change I make gets removed, rather than only ones they disagree with, or ones that remove information.

I find that the curent state of the article is a disgrace. An absolute disgrace. It is nothing short of pro-Sunni Muslim propaganda. On such a touchy subject, I am bothered that an information source held to the regard wikipedia for some reason is contains this much overt propaganda.

This is the relevant talk section:

Here is the revision history:

Note that the very substantial changes I made are completely missing now.

I am not raising a complaint against these users, but I would like administrator intervention anyway. The article contains many, MANY sections that very obviously do not have a neutral point of view. The parts I remove or shorten serve to change the language to be neutral, and the sections I removed a) add nothing to the actual article b) are completely unsourced and serve as propaganda.

I made probably 20+ changes. These all removed and no longer even in the history. What do I do in this situation?

User:Kansas Bear seems to have started with this, and grouped together even changes that were not mine and removed them wholesale. Is that really acceptable? What do I do in this situation when a) my changes are unfairly grouped together on objections that apply to a minority of changes b) an article is so overtly written as propaganda?

Eternal of sirus (talk) 20:19, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

  • Dispute resolution, second on the left down the hallway. We are, I am afraid, janitors, not riot police. Guy (Help!) 22:10, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Eternal of sirus, I'll just add that you made a lot of edits in a short period of time. That kind of editing gets people's attention as does the talk page statement that I am beginning a complete re-write of this article.. Other editors will object to that kind of declaration. And your edits are all in the page's revision history so they have not been removed. Liz Read! Talk! 22:30, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Requesting block review of User:Thewolfchild[edit]

Block review requested and received as the block has been endorsed by two additional admins. --Jezebel's Ponyobons mots 23:47, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hi, could an admin please review the block of User:Thewolfchild? He was blocked by User:Nick-D and I feel its a bad block because Nick is WP:INVOLVED and has a WP:COI. It's bad practice for an admin to block an editor under these situations. The whole thing should of been handled by a neutral admin who was not involved. It should also be noted that Nick has been in conflict in the past with the same editor and has blocked him in the past as well so the two have a history with each other. Caden cool 22:28, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

The block was reviewed and upheld by Coffee - why isn't that good enough? (Genuine question, I'm still looking to see what I can find out about the background here - it would help if you gave diffs). BencherliteTalk
It's not good enough because the admin Nick is invovled and coffee did not know that. Caden cool 22:45, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
You still haven't shown why Nick was involved or had a COI such as to disqualify him from taking administrative action. The fact that Nick extended a block to indef back in 2012 before Thewolfchild apologised and was unblocked does not make him involved - is there anything else? BencherliteTalk 22:51, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
nick got involved here [17] and then it was taken to nick's talk page and thewolfchild's talk page resulting in nick blocking him. Caden cool 22:57, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Anyone who gets himself blocked over something as trivial as the size of images is probably better off sitting out the block (which expires just tomorrow morning anyway). ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:05, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
(e.c with BB) I don't agree with you, Caden. Nick referred Thewolfchild to WP:IMGSIZE, then warned and thereafter blocked him for his rude talk page messages. He was not "involved" and had no conflict of interest. Coffee correctly reviewed the block and upheld it for personal attacks. Thewolfchild was most unwise to repeat his rude tone after he had been warned about being blocked. Endorse block as within original admin's margin of discretion to block and within reviewing admin's margin of discretion to uphold. BencherliteTalk 23:08, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Nick had no business blocking this editor. It is a bad block. Caden cool 23:10, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Repeating that you don't agree with it won't get you anywhere. BencherliteTalk 23:12, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

I was not WP:INVOLVED here: I was simply pointing out the relevant policy regarding image sizes in my role as an admin as part of responding to Thewolfchild's abusive message to another editor wrongly claiming that they were breaching this policy, and rude talk page post claiming that they were "not sure why" their changes to the image size were being reverted. I also noted this in my warning to Thewolfchild. I did not express an option on whether I think that this was one of the instances where image sizes should be forced. I haven't previously been "in conflict" with the Thewolfchild. This appears to be another instance of Caden misinterpreting WP:INVOLVED and attacking my blocks of obviously disruptive editors to make some kind of point. I really have no idea why he or she is still doing this, but it's pretty tiresome (this discussion from 2013 is relevant). Nick-D (talk) 23:19, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

  • Hmm... Is Thewolfchild still under undergoing mentorship for his difficulties working with others? His recent participation at WT:FILMBIO doesn't fill me with confidence that the mentorship is working/has worked... -Thibbs (talk) 23:34, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Reviewing administrator comment: I'm not sure what User:Caden is attempting to achieve here. Thewolfchild made personal attacks and was, properly, blocked per our policy WP:NPA. It matters not whether Nick-D has a prior history with this user (which it appears is not the case anyways, at least in any form that would cause concern), the block was well warranted and therefore should have been put in place. Coffee // have a cup // beans // 23:41, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:EvergreenFir 2.0 misusing its talk page while blocked.[edit]

Done. BencherliteTalk 00:06, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

He was blocked for vandalism, then made a personal attack on his own talk page. I reverted it, then issued my own 4im warning. He then made another personal attack (2 actually), so I reverted them back. Please revoke talk page access. --ToonLucas22 (talk) 23:46, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

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Nu Yawk NY[edit]

User indef blocked by Bencherlite. --IJBall (talk) 00:34, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Nu Yawk NY (talk · contribs) is edit-warring on FAs like Washington, D.C. and Virginia to incorrectly label these places as being in the northeastern part of the country. Besides leaving rambling comments like this one at Talk:Maryland, I received this lovely note on my talk page, with comments like "This article or articles is by a straight up Ghetto Hood Project New York City N*****. The five boroughs is thorough. And you damn right I said N**** meaning for those who don't know. Never Ignorant Getting Goals Accomplished. Now I see I have to break this shit down lil more illa for you slow dumb Muthafuckas out there." etc. If the edit-warring isn't a blockable offense, I think that last comment should at least warrant a strong warning from an admin, if not a block. APK whisper in my ear 23:04, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

Blocked indef for disruptive editing and WP:NOTHERE. BencherliteTalk 23:23, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. APK whisper in my ear 23:24, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

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Forged signature, editing other people's comments[edit]

IPV6 address from Belgium pretending to be an IPV4 address from Canada[18] and faking the posting time for good measure. Not sure what to make of this or whether any action is needed but I thought I should raise a flag. --Guy Macon (talk) 01:12, 21 February 2015 (UTC)

2A02:A03F:12DA:D300:213:20FF:FE3B:A79E (talk · contribs) Add link to this users edits as they might need examination for accuracy. One of the edits uses a blog as a source. MarnetteD|Talk 01:22, 21 February 2015 (UTC)
And now he is editing other people's comments.--Guy Macon (talk) 09:19, 22 February 2015 (UTC)
And again. (...Sound of Crickets...) --Guy Macon (talk) 02:32, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
(...CHIRP... ...CHIRP...)
Four IPV6 addresses used so far:
And (what a shock!) he is also a spammer.[19][20][21] --Guy Macon (talk) 17:27, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Hello, I have no idea what is happening here. Some IP user added a comment with a fake IP signature and a fake date from two months ago. I have no idea why anyone would want to fake a name and date. I responded to them and they wanted my comment and their comment deleted. I cannot imagine why - the question was fair enough and maybe other people would want to see it. Blue Rasberry (talk) 17:40, 23 February 2015 (UTC)
My guess is that he is experimenting with using an IP-hopping proxy to spam Wikipedia and thinks that by forging his IP address and posting date and deleting your comment pointing out that he forged his IP address he will be able to avoid detection. What he doesn't realize is that his ham-handed attempts to hide his activity make him stand out like a sore thumb and will no doubt result in his favorite proxies being blocked. --Guy Macon (talk) 18:04, 23 February 2015 (UTC)


COULD WE PLEASE GET SOME ADMINISTRATOR HELP HERE??? --Guy Macon (talk) 18:59, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Sorry Guy Macon. I've semi-protected the article for now. Sam Walton (talk) 19:03, 24 February 2015 (UTC)

Thanks! Because he has pretty much announced that he is going to keep on spamming the Camgirl page,[22] might I suggest a temporary rangeblock of [ 2A02:A03F:*:*:213:20FF:FE3B:A79E ]? --Guy Macon (talk) 19:36, 24 February 2015 (UTC)
Because of spam at at Camgirl[23], Camgirl is now semiprotected.[24] Of course there are plenty of other potential spam targets such as Erotic photography,[25] but one can only hope that he tumbles on to the fact that every time he spams it gets reverted[26] and gives up. --Guy Macon (talk) 00:52, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Interesting delevopment at User talk:Guy Macon#Blocking... --Guy Macon (talk) 10:15, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Guy, regarding your comment #above, "he has pretty much announced that he is going to keep on spamming the Camgirl page", In that diff he's just arguing, which is what we do here. Don't we routinely delete people's IP addressed when they inadvertently disclose them and ask for deletion (or "oversight" or "rev del" or whatever you call it?) And isn't that what this person seems to be trying to achieve. --Anthonyhcole (talk · contribs · email) 12:38, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

If, as appears likely from his latest comments, he is willing to stop deleting other people's comments and edit warring, then I will switch from "stop the disruption" mode to "help the newbie" mode, redacting his IP address in my comments and seeing whether I can arrange for his IP address to be revdeleted from the history. --Guy Macon (talk) 00:01, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
It looks like he has decided to stop edit warring and deleting, so I am going to wait until all the semi-protections expire, wait a few more days to make sure that he doesn't start up again, then redact every place where I mentioned his IP address and look into the feasibility of asking for revdels.
All of which I would have been happy to do on the first day if he had simply listened instead of ignoring warnings, changing/deleting other people's comments, and edit warring. I really do hope that he registers a username and becomes part of the community instead of being soured by this experience. --Guy Macon (talk) 01:38, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Question on course of action[edit]

Occasionally while doing RC patrolling I'll see something like this:

  • (User creation log); 07:01 . . User account Kitpatricksymons123 (talk | contribs | block) was created by Kitpatricksymons (talk | contribs | block) ‎
  • (User creation log); 07:50 . . User account Jenoptik Redakteur en (talk | contribs | block) was created by Jenoptik Redakteur (talk | contribs | block) and password was sent by email ‎

My question is how do I approach this? Should I AGF? Block on Sock grounds? Wait and see? Any help here would be appreciated. TomStar81 (Talk) 14:04, 26 February 2015 (UTC)

People are allowed to have alternative accounts (I've got one myself), so I'd be wary of jumping the gun. As long as they aren't being used abusively, alts can be perfectly legit. Yunshui  14:58, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
Given the similarity of the names of these alternate accounts to the names of the master accounts, it's extremely unlikely that they'd be used for ulterior purposes. BMK (talk) 16:43, 26 February 2015 (UTC)
So AGF and the wait and see approach. Alright then, thanks for the clarification. TomStar81 (Talk) 01:47, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Sexually provocative images on user pages[edit]

MfDs have been started for the pages in question; that is the appropriate venue to continue this discussion. Swarm X 19:23, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Abandoned account user page full of porn[edit]

Deleted by Ched under U5. G S Palmer (talkcontribs) 14:20, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Kingstonjr Account appears abandoned [27]. The user last edited in 2012. What is the policy regarding this? Can we just delete the porn? — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:42, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

(Non-administrator comment) I've tagged it for speedy deletion. I assume the user has returned to Pornopedia or wherever he came from. APK whisper in my ear 11:14, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
  •  DoneChed :  ?  11:23, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Here is a post [28] User:Kingstonjr made to an editor banned by Jimbo back in 2006: Yeah you are very beautiful! Could you email me some too? hornyhare@.**.** (Redacted email). I am pretty sure that is not what Wikipedia is for. The below accounts are all coping each other's pictures with BDSM and nude spreading and editing each other. They may be sock accounts but I am unsure. Most of the Users have not edited in years however 1 revert on their user page brings back all the porn or whatever you want to call them pics. (talk) 14:33, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

An Abandoned USER PAGE Full of Sexually provocative Images[edit]

User:Joe1234 is a mirror of the one above and even mentions it, although another editor removed some of the images in 2006 there is still plenty of porn jpg files listed. [29] The editor last edited in 2006. [30] (talk) 13:00, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

I would hardly call that "Full of porn" (nothing like the one above) but, to each their own. Mlpearc (open channel) 13:12, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Not doneChed :  ?  13:15, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
I didn't get to see the other user page, but unless the page was only an image gallery, only the images should have been removed while leaving the rest of the page. Also, I wouldn't call the images on this user page porn. Yes, many of them contain nudity, however, nudity is not the same as porn. —Farix (t | c) 13:51, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Another editor removed most of the pics. All it takes is one revert and they are there. I will not argue semantics about porn but BDSM pics are there. There are several accounts linked to above KingstonJR and even a page that directs to accounts with porn pics and to users self identified as teenage females. There was crap going on back in 2006. (talk) 14:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
I don't see any real "porn" there. But if you think some of the images need to be restricted to certain articles, there is a process to go through. (I don't know the details, though.) ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:33, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict) They would need to be added to MediaWiki:Bad image list. The process is outlined on the talk page. G S Palmer (talkcontribs) 14:43, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
The images in question are pretty tame, but the user could try it if he's of a mind to. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 14:47, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
I agree, I was just putting the link there to be helpful. G S Palmer (talkcontribs) 14:51, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Rogereeny. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:22, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

WP:Userpages states:There is broad consensus that you should not have any image in your userspace that would bring the project into disrepute and you may be asked to remove such images. Content clearly intended as sexually provocative (images and in some cases text) or to cause distress and shock that appears to have little or no project benefit or using Wikipedia only as a web host or personal pages or for advocacy, may be removed by any user (or deleted), subject to appeal at deletion review.[Note 2] Context should be taken into account. Simple personal disclosures of a non-provocative nature on sexual matters (such as LGBT userboxes and relationship status) are unaffected. The matter is already settled. (talk) 15:03, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

Read the whole paragraph. One of the last sentences is that "Context should be taken into account." The list of images is essentially just a list of images that might be subject to censorship on other sites. Now, whether that hits the "clearly intended as sexually provocative" element is, I think, a matter that should be discussed. It strikes me that the user page is no worse than certain individual categories over at Commons. Most of the subcategories of Commons:Category:Nudity, for instance. Admittedly, Commons is another project, but that we're connected with it suggests to me that those category pages themselves wouldn't "bring the project into disrepute". Of course, userspace is a bit different, and the context includes the statement that Wikipedia is not censored followed by a bunch of explicit images. Perhaps there's an intent to "shock", but if so, it's a very mild shock. My point, in short, is that there are a lot of factual determinations that the wording of the user page policy tees up. It's not as black and white as suggested above. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 15:16, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
The problem is there isn't a "image" on that page, they're all links (and most are pictures of everyday celebrities/models). Mlpearc (open channel) 15:12, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Go down to the user's page history a little ways, just before someone chopped all the images. It's worth noting that among the nude stuff there were conventional pictures of random things of beauty in nature, which is possibly the point the user was trying to make - nine years ago. And as you say, the links (the ones that aren't red) in the current userpage are to various starlets, which are generally no worse than PG-rated. The OP here might be on a mission of some kind, but he's barking up the wrong tree. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:41, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
And I see the OP has posted this ANI on the page of user Hashbrowns, on the same theory - that someone could revert the reversion and re-post the "porn". The OP is a busybody who should be sent packing. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:44, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Bugs see WP:NPA, please use better manners or take a break.
NOTE Read post carefully. The 3rd to last revision of the user page is full of sexually provocative images BDSM and spreading. Anyone can restore them. The user did not take them down. Another editor did. The user has not edited in since 2006. The violating pics should be removed so they cannot be restored. It would make since to delete the user page as it had little value. Of course someone could remove the edits that put the offending material in there as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:46, February 25, 2015 (UTC)
The images are no longer on the user page. That is all that matters. These editors are no longer active on Wikipedia and there is no reason to delete their userpages. Just because the image galleries can be restored is not a reason to delete the pages wholesale. —Farix (t | c) 15:54, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
To someone on a censorship mission, it IS a reason to delete. If the user is serious and not trolling, he needs to follow user G S Palmer's link and do things the right way. And while there, he'll see how tame this stuff is compared to the "bad" images. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 15:57, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
It is clear that BDSM and spreading is sexually provocative, what is at commons is irrelevant and faulty logic. We are talking about user page contents not commons. (talk) 15:58, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Do YOU find them provocative? And how did they got on your radar in the first place? Were you LOOKING FOR provocative? ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
The images were removed from the user pages years ago, so they are no longer an issue. Why are you even going back through ancient user page histories in the first place? —Farix (t | c) 16:16, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
It is clear that BDSM and spreading is sexually provocative. Says who? We are talking about user page contents not commons. Read my entire post. To elucidate: The rule of the userpage policy is to avoid bringing the project into disrepute. If you have a situation where the project is not at risk of being brought into disrepute (e.g., by partially mirroring pages found on Commons, which is a Foundation project with close ties to Wikipedia) it really doesn't matter that the content might be found by some to be sexually provocative.
Honestly, a better understanding of the userpage policy would be to serve as a gap-filler for where images aren't yet put on the bad images list (or might not clearly qualify), or haven't yet been deleted (Commons deletion can take awhile), or where there's a creative product on the userpage that's provocative (e.g., placing an image of a living person next to an image of a man ejaculating for effect), or where there's erotic fiction on a userpage.
In short, I haven't seen any argument that particular images on that userpage bring the project into disrepute, nor have I seen any particular explanation why the collection of such images in this specific case brings the project into disrepute. Let me leave you with this question: Would we say a prolific uploader of encyclopedic images of nudity or sexuality couldn't display a list of works uploaded on their userpage? Editors get broad latitude with their userpages for good reason. —/Mendaliv//Δ's/ 18:08, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
The OP is now trolling user Lightbreather, where the closest thing I see to a "provocative" image is the famous WWII image of "Rosie the Riveter". ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:11, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Actually, it looks like the OP is canvassing selected editors, presumably to help boost the argument. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:18, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
To hell with the "canvassing" guideline. If a rule prevents you from improving or maintaining Wikipedia, WP:IGNORE it. The material in question does NOTHING to improve the encyclopedia, but removing it does. There are plenty of other places for editors who like that kind of stuff to go and find it. Lightbreather (talk) 17:27, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

MfD User:Joe1234[edit]

Miscellany for Deletion: User:Joe1234. Lightbreather (talk) 18:17, 25 February 2015 (UTC)

USER Page contains Images in Violation of WP:Userpages[edit]

Debate that should have been at WP:MFD

USER:Jbc01 user page full of Nude BDSM images violate WP:Userpages There is broad consensus that you should not have any image in your userspace that would bring the project into disrepute and you may be asked to remove such images. Content clearly intended as sexually provocative (images and in some cases text) or to cause distress and shock that appears to have little or no project benefit

Can the objectionable images be permanently deleted from user page so they will not be reverted? Or can the user page be speedy delete as it has not been used in over 2 years and contains sexually provocative images? I find, you admins figure it out. (talk) 15:31, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
That's simply nudity, no sexual acts are being performed and it appears it is one person showing the pictures they uploaded and then used in articles(meaning they were added for legitimate purposes in contravention of wiki policy). At most I would support hatting but other then showing some skin it isn't like it is depicting graphic sex acts. I would look at the IP's history, it looks like it's only being used to bring people to ANI or give ANI notices. I wonder if this is a good faith attempt or an evasion of scrutiny? Hell in a Bucket (talk) 16:11, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
There are no sexually provocative images on that user page. While their may have been some nude images in the past, they are no longer there. So just why are you going through ancient user page histories of inactive editors? —Farix (t | c) 16:20, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
That's more than just nudity. The current version of the page shows BDSM stuff, which some find acceptable and some find offensive as a form of violence against women. --BoboMeowCat (talk) 16:29, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
That stuff is very tame. If someone finds such mild images offensive, the problem is with that someone, not with the images. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:35, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Tameness is subjective. Also, I think when images of violence (even staged violence) are depicted in relation to a specific gender (or ethnic group), members of that group might find it less tame than non-members. --BoboMeowCat (talk) 16:43, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
There's no requirement that the public endorse Fifty Shades of Grey, but we can't cow-tow to their censorship either. If you're concerned about it being one-sided, look for some images of men tied up also, as I'm sure there are many. And speaking of "offensive images", the last time I looked, we had depictions of Muhammad in his article here - that kind of thing is a degree of "offensive" that has driven some zealots to murder, but we don't cow-tow to censorship there either. So try to keep things in perspective. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:52, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
How did towing cows get into it? EEng (talk) 18:22, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
He means "we can't tow cows to their censorship", that is, if we are to sacrifice cows (or any other valuable commodity; cows are just an example) to their censorship, they have to go under their own power (that is, of their own free will). Herostratus (talk) 19:44, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
Is it like when someone said "you can lead a cow to culture but you can't make her think"? Or are they sacred cows? Is that it? EEng (talk) 23:20, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
The user in question hasn't posted since 2012. This isn't an article on the topic of nudity or bondage, it's a user page. Even if you consider this "tame" or soft core, is the point of user pages is to host free porn? How does it benefit the encyclopedia to continue to host this non-active user's BDSM image gallery?--BoboMeowCat (talk) 17:01, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
In fact, go to Commons and look under Category:BDSM subcategory Male submission, and try arguing that that's the same level of "provocative" as these long-abandoned user accounts have in their user page histories. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 16:59, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
If you find an abandoned account being used to host images of nude guys who are tied, gagged and bound, I'd say delete that too, because it's not an article on the topic of bondage. User space isn't suppose to be your own personal website or porn site.--BoboMeowCat (talk) 17:08, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
  • Delete Wikipedia isn't cloud space for wankers to keep links to their favorite wanking material. Lightbreather (talk) 17:09, 25 February 2015 (UTC)
    • Would you have come here if the IP hadn't canvassed you? ←Baseball Bugs