Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive886

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Troll editor operating on proxy IPs and possible hacker[edit]

See this discussion. A user who I knew, AHLM13, was blocked recently as his account was used for random vandalism twice (more on ANI here and here). AHLM13 denied he did the vandalism and claims his account was hacked. There is an anonymous user operating from proxy IPs who for the past few days has been trolling on people's talk pages while acting as AHLM13 (see the whole army of socks and IPs abusing Anna's talk page; many other user and talk pages have also been abused, including mine). While I had expressed my concerns over AHLM's account being hacked right when he was blocked for his first vandalism spree on 3 May, a couple of users and I have gone over some recent evidence at my talk page and we are becoming more than convinced that this is indeed the case. One thing common with all these socks and proxies is the repeated racist and religious slurs on talk pages, and random messages (usually profane) written in Bengali (AHLM accused a Bengali editor of hacking his account). An involved user, User:CosmicEmperor has expressed concerns on my talk page how his account has been mysteriously 'logging off' and that he may be about to get hacked. Just now, I have also received a threat. If something happens to my account, I would like to make it clear in advance that it should be blocked immediately. It is possible we are dealing with a notorious and vicious hacker. I would really like admins to look into this matter ASAP and uncover who this editor is and what are his motives. Mar4d (talk) 14:44, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Also pinging other involved editors: Lukeno94, @Ravensfire:, CosmicEmperor, @Favonian:, @Anna Frodesiak:, Mike V, AsceticRose, Jpgordon. Mar4d (talk) 14:44, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
  • I'm only tangentially involved from giving a couple of comments in passing, but there is definitely something weird here. We have two possible options, in my opinion; either AHLM13 has gone completely off the rails, or they're telling the truth. I also believe that there may well be an opportunist vandal who is tagging along for the ride. What we do know is that IPs from a wide range of countries have been posting threats, insults and other pieces of vandalism in various places - but the most common country appears to be India. Meanwhile, I believe AHLM13 is supposed to be a Pakistani - so something's wrong here. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 15:05, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

We need to look at the latest socks of User:Undertrialryryr and user:AHLM13. I don't like AHLM13 but some user is using sock ip against all those Users who were part of collage discussion on Bengalis and User:AHLM13's talk page. My account is behaving strangely. All those personal attacks on Babitaarora was not made by Undertrialryryr. Even AHLM13 can't make such comments against Anna Frodesiak . Every Non-English socks of Undertrialryryr and other socks which came after that may not be what we think. AHLM13's socks and Undertrialryryr's socks are tagged, but they belong to someone who is posting nonsense in my talk page, Titodutta's talkpage, 115ash's talk page. I am also commenting here: I don't want to be responsible for any vandalism from my account. And don't allow anybody to change my E-Mail address please. The E-Mail that I am using for past one month is mine and should be kept unchanged.C E (talk) 14:53, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

I think everyone's been ignoring the troll for quite a few days but it is getting to a point where it is irritating. Also, I would not like to take the veiled hacking threat lightly. If AHLM13 could get hacked, there's no guarantee of who could be next. Mar4d (talk) 15:02, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
AHLM13 was not hacked. It is just another excuse for good hand/bad hand behavior. His use of proxies will likely make CU results not helpful. Its just one big game. Stop obsessing and get back to editing the encyclopedia. JoeSperrazza (talk)
  • The fact that there is a threat to hack other people's accounts is a big concern, particularly with CosmicEmperor (who could hardly be called a AHLM13 supporter) saying that something's wrong on their end. Joe, stop being so flippant - you're not the one being threatened here. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 15:08, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
yes i was happy to see AHLM13 blocked and Undertialyryry's socks blocked. But try to understand AHLM13 can't speak in Bengali slang language. AHLM13 can't say Bengali swear words.

ZORDANLIGHTER never abused a female editor before. AHLM13's account was hacked. My account is logging off the moment a sock IP came. I am not asking for AHLM13 and Undertrialyryr to be unblocked but try to find this hacker. Undertrilayryr's non-english socks were not technically matching with him according to Dord and vangajenie but due to behaviourial; evidence they wre tagged. I am typing in a hurry as i am constantly logged off. I am making spelling mistakes due to that.C E (talk) 16:02, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Hi everybody. Thanks that you have moved this to ANI, as administrators can help me and you as well. User:Mazca blocked ip by writing that it is me, without giving any proof. Also I ASK TO ADMINISTRATORS TO warn (or maybe be block) User:JoeSperrazza, who is labelling in all accounts that I am a sockpuppet of them. I admit that i create only ahlm85, so that i could explain to everybody what is going on and that those sockpuppets and ips are not me. User:JoeSperrazza tagged all of them as my sockpuppet, by giving no evidences. I asked if a checkuser can proof this. Those accounts pretend to be be, in order to spoil my credibility to other users. Moreover, right now I just got a strange email. I ask ADMINS and CHECKUSER if they can unblock me and do something with this hacker or vandal. I asked an appeal to unblock through email, but they told that I have not any proof to show that I am AHLM13, so now I am alone and i do not know what to do. Please help me. Thank you. -- (talk) 17:31, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
You shouldn't have commented here. Checking his English I know which one is your account and which is not as he is using Bengali slangs in nafsadh's talk page. Don't comment in WP anymore. You are going back to your previous attitude by asking Joe Sparazza's block. I will not try to unblock you as you AHLM13 is very offensive, but we need to find this hacker who created fake socks which looked like the socks of ZORDANLIGHTER/Undertrialyryr.C E (talk) 17:47, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
User CosmicEmperor' language is strange. Maybe even his account his now hacked. in fact he said that "And someone is logging me off, even if i am signing in. I think my account is going to be hacked. So if today or tomorrow i post offensive comments,. it's not me.". (talk) 18:26, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Regarding Mar4d and CosmicEmperor' concerns that they experienced unusual log off, clearly this needs admin attention. Also it now appears that a notorious person is playing behind the screen. We still don't know who it is. But probably a rigorous CU checking is needed to discover whether AHLM13 was a victim of hacking. Also those proxy/VPN sites should be brought under block.
User:JoeSperrazza is not helping here. I think you are not a party to this and should leave. You can't close a running discussion at your sweet will. You should not impersonate as an admin which you did. -AsceticRosé 00:47, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

───────────────────────── @AsceticRose: As i edited the page Baby (2015 film), i came across a new user Aceticrpose mard aurat. The name is like combination of your name and Mar4d's name. in your talk page something is written in Urdu/Arabic or some middle eastern language. Can someone translate what is written there.The one who posted is tagged as AHLM13's sock.C E (talk) 06:16, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

I suggest you redact your comments, which border on a personal attack. I impersonated no one. Not only can anyone edit this page, but I have been involved with this situation (see my talk page, for example). Per WP:CLOSE, I archived the discussion once the IP was blocked, which was the only likely admin action that could be taken here (see WP:SPI for more actions that can be requested). I don't dispute your right to re-open, but reiterate that this discussion of hackers is only feeding the trolls and is not based on anything rational. Finally, can anyone here answer the question "What admin action are you requesting"? JoeSperrazza (talk) 00:59, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

@Nafsadh: has expressed concern that his account was going to be hacked here

This is similar to those problems faced by me and Mar4d.

And also read what i wrote here

Past connection

C E (talk) 06:26, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Let me say something. Although I'm not so familiar with AHLM13, but a sockpuppet investigation were made against me, I can assure that "the so-called" hacker is perhaps "Undertrialryryr". @Joesperazza, none is attacking you, but AHLM13's Ip is fully right, you don't possess any right to tag this, this, this, this this and more as AHLM13's sockpuppets, seen that there is no strong evidence (like CU or SPI) which demonstrate that most of them belong to him. Now assume that I utilise my Ips in order to obtain carefulness of other contributors, by swearing to them and stating that I would be you. Would this be any testimony? I believe that AHLM13, notwithstanding his behavior, needs to be provided another chance.--115ash→(☏) 10:33, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
    • 115ash I was the one who made that SPI. And right now after reading your comment i wanted to login and reply to you but two times my login failed. The problem is that Joesperazza thinks AHLM13 is behind all this and now 115ash thinks that Undertrialryryr is behind this. If both of you look at the details, there is a third one involved who is taking advantage of AHLM13 and Undertrialryryr's past behaviour, and everywhere he is just abusing everybody posing like them.115ash is right. Some socks are not correctly tagged by Joesperazza. Even during SPI against Undertrialryryr i had doubt whether these foreign language socks belong to Undertrialryryr .I posted the same thing else where but as some people won't go through them, i have to put it here
I don't want AHLM13 to be unblocked but lots of proxy IPs and socks are launching personal attacks posing as Undertrialryryr socks and AHLM13 socks.

Three times my account was logged off even though i didn't click log out. I changed the password and disconnected my net connection;after that it stopped.

I am telling you: if in future, I post offensive derogatory messages on people's talk pages,then please make sure that my E-Mail address that i have registered is not changed.That's the only way i can regian my account .

AHLM13 claimed he was hacked or he had BROTHER. I don't know about him but even @Mar4d: and @Lukeno94: is doubting about this hacker in ANI.

I have reasons to believe all these cases mentioned below are inter-related:

A)- In this SPI DoRD mentioned "ЗОРДАНЛИГХТЕР, plus a bunch more, are almost certainly the same as the ones I listed above, who may or may not (I'm leaning not) belong to this master."

Technically they were not matching with Undertrialryryr. And i found their editing very different from the previous accounts.Vanjagenije accepted he was not sure but they were tagged "Based on the behavior".

B)- AHLM13's account abused Babitaarora in the same mannerকসমিক এম্পারার attacked her, {私はあなたにを愛し did the same thing, unknown ip, another Undertrialryryr sock

C)- Now today these three proxy IPs disrupted talkpages claiming to be AHLM13, but AHLM13 doesn't speak like that. AHLM13 is Pakistani. How can he use Bengali swear words and Bengali colloquial language.




Now check the last line of this offensive comment on Titodutta's talk page by কসমিক এম্পারার which is very similar to this edit made today by . Those who can read Bengali will understand that they are same.

All three are proxy IPs, as i checked them on internet IP Location finder and they must be blocked indefinitely, not for few hours or one week.

D)- Same guy who removed Babitaarora's complain on Materialscientist's talk page about Undertrialryryr socks. I am sure this is not Undertrialryryr.

E)- Unblock request by 115ash is the same comment he made on Ged UK's talk page with IP-, and this IP is similar to this IP- which we believe is AHLM13 as we found that his English is similar to AHLM13.

F)- If we check the contributions of Undertrialryryr, ZORDANLIGHTER, Blackwizard2000, Enterths300000, Whistlingwoods, Championkiller and vandal account BLACKIEHINDU

They don't match with the contributions and editing style of these sock accounts in other languages.

later on few socks whose names were in Punjabi language attacked Babitaarora. Their offensive comments and edit history were deleted by Materialscientist,Yunshui and Albertsquare. They were tagged as Undertrialryryr socks. I don't know whether the Ips were same or most obviously the same reason previous socks were blocked due to behavioral evidence. Once DoRD told me that personal details of any user can't be made public which includes IP address, but Check user should at least tell whether these latest sockaccounts : ਬਬੀਤਾ ਦੇ ਪਤੀ, Lundbaaz King Shaan Shahid, Pakistani girl's breasts, ਬਬੀਤਾ ਦੇ ਪਤੀ and ਕਾਸ੍ਮਿਕ ਏਮ੍ਪੇਰੋਰ matches with the IPs of

Undertrialryryr, ZORDANLIGHTER, Blackwizard2000,

or they match with unconfirmed socks written in other languages.C E (talk) 18:49, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

  • I have to say that my account was randomly logging off yesterday as well (did so about three times, I think), but it's possible that was just due to the fact I'd just changed my password as a precaution, and I haven't seen it do so since. Regardless, Joe, you're dismissing out of hand the entire issue by only considering a small part of it - and when multiple editors are saying that something screwy is going on with their accounts, then the discussion should stay open, as it isn't solely about AHLM13. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 10:37, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Couple of things worth noting; I've received a "you're next" threat, and there's a village pump thread on a potential technical issue that an unrelated user has been experiencing. So there is still, of course, the possibility of Wikipedia being glitched, or we could be dealing with someone who is not the most stable of people. Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 13:34, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
There is one more E (talk) 13:36, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

Here's a suggestion, if it does turn out to be a hacker: use a much stronger password that cannot be easily guessed/bruteforced. In a case such as this, the blame generally lies solely with poor security practices (i.e. an easily-guessed password). —Jeremy v^_^v Bori! 18:23, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Editor making bulk changes against consensus (redux)[edit]

Serpren (talk · contribs · count · logs · page moves · block log) has for some time been making bulk changes to UK placenames. I informed him [1] on his talk page that per this consensus, it's very clear that bulk changes of this type should cease. This was in many cases mopped up by an admin (User:Redrose64), but Serpren has continued. I reverted him in a number of cases, but he has just reverted back.

This consensus was designed to stop this kind of thing, i.e. editors changing UK placenames to suit their own preference, for example removing "UK" or adding it, or swapping "UK" for "England" and vice versa. There's no consensus on which format to use and it is unconstructive to keep switching between them. I have encountered several editors engaging in this practice (usually adding or removing "UK") and showing them the consensus has always stopped them, until now.

Please advise on how to resolve this, thanks. Bretonbanquet (talk) 11:05, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

I now see he actually reported me for vandalism [2] although it's not showing on that page. He did not notify me of this report and even accused me of editing "for political motivations", a clear violation of WP:AGF, let alone being utterly wrong. Bretonbanquet (talk) 11:12, 19 March 2015 (UTC)
The consensus Bretonbanquet refers to is "no consensus" as to style (therefore no mandate for bulk changes). However it does refer back to an earlier discussion and straw poll which showed a split consensus (once socks and meatpuppets were removed) between "England, UK/United Kingdom" and "England" (and similarly for Scotland, Wales, N Ireland) in geography leads. (In both discussions it was widely stated by those who usually know about these things that using both the home country and UK was redundant.) Consequently Serpren has some grounds for making their changes, though they would be well advised to stop and seek fresh consensus, since the strawpoll was a long time ago, and not well attended. All the best: Rich Farmbrough15:00, 19 March 2015 (UTC).
Yes, as you say, the straw poll is from 2006 and consensus was split. The 2014 discussion to which I linked above also found no consensus as to style and that bulk changes shouldn't be made. This is my complaint; that Serpren is not abiding by that. Nearly all of his edits are changes of this type. Bretonbanquet (talk) 16:06, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

If I may add, Serpren's haste to make these changes has introduced geographic or grammatical errors into at least a couple of articles ([3] [4]). Being so eager to add their bulk changes that they fail to spot any collateral damage is a fairly good indicator that their intentions are not necessarily honourable. QueenCake (talk) 17:19, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

I was under the impression that the consensus was "Cornwall, England, UK/United Kingdom" and have been assiduously working to ensure conformity across Cornish pages. However, should the consensus be "England, UK/United Kingdom" or "England", I will happily stick with that. My profound apologies for any grammatical errors I have caused, that was certainly not my intent. Maybe an adjudication, or new consensus, could be reached? Serpren (talk) 01:54, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

You say that, but at no stage have you been applying this convention of "Cornwall, England, UK" to pages that say "Cornwall, England". You've only been changing pages which say "Cornwall, UK". Perhaps you could explain why that's the case. The consensus you're talking about is here, but as it says, "Although no-one actively changes articles that don't comply with this format unless making other substantive edits to the article, members of the Cornwall Wikiproject do ensure that where it has been used, it remains in place." In other words, and combined with the other consensus about not making bulk changes to UK placenames, don't change the placenames unless you're making other substantive edits to the article. There is no consensus to enforce this placename format across all Cornish articles, particularly as you're being somewhat selective in your choice of articles to change.
There's also the point about inappropriate use of "Cornwall, England, UK" when the sentence already mentions England or the UK, or "English" or "British". That just amounts to repetition and makes the sentence read very poorly. Bretonbanquet (talk) 10:17, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Well where I have added "England" inappropriately, you should feel free to edit it. However, I can see no refutation that the agreed consensus is the term "Cornwall, England, UK/United Kingdom" and will continue to add England where it is deserved/needed Serpren (talk) 00:15, 22 March 2015 (UTC).

I will. So you are saying that you will ignore the consensus about not making bulk changes and you admit to openly editing against that consensus. You also ignore the point in the guideline about the "Cornwall, England, UK" consensus not being enforced unless making other substantive edits to the article, and you also ignore my question as to why you do not add "UK" to articles that say "Cornwall, England" in your supposed quest to fulfil this consensus. At the risk of failing WP:AGF, that looks very much like editing with a political POV, quite apart from editing against one consensus to wrongly enforce another. Bretonbanquet (talk) 10:59, 22 March 2015 (UTC)
There are a potentially-unlimited number of beneficial edits that a user could choose to make to Wikipedia. However, Serpren has elected to spend months making the same unhelpful edit to hundreds of pages, ignoring all opposition, frequently damaging the flow of a page's prose in order to stamp "Cornwall, England, United Kingdom" repeatedly.
It would be naïve to the point of foolishness to assume good faith when a user is so devoted to deliberate disruption and announces his intentions to carry on causing further disorder. Surely a block on the editor is justified to prevent further wilful disturbance of the project. (talk) 04:39, 23 March 2015 (UTC)

Discussion retrieved from archives as issue was not resolved
This discussion demonstrates opposition to Serpren's insistance on altering all articles mentioning "Cornwall" (and variants) to "Cornwall, England, UK". However, Serpren has continued (as he stated he would) making mass changes.
I have reverted a series of his edits, as they are obviously generally opposed, only to be hit by the usual threats and inaccurate templates that are part of the joy of editing from an IP address. Therefore, I would politely ask that issue be looked at again and some kind of final decision be reached. (talk) 17:24, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

The edits by Serpren that (talk · contribs · WHOIS) has been reverting today were done two months ago and were already dealt with above. Furthermore, the IP has falsely accused me of vandalism and politically motivated edits. Re-opening this thread is just a waste of time. DuncanHill (talk) 19:40, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
There were edits made yesterday by the IP that followed the pattern of what Serpren was doing, but I do not believe that IP is Serpren. Serpren himself does appear to have stopped editing in a problematic fashion. The IP above, as well as the other IP, as well as everyone else, needs to cease making multiple changes to placenames; this practice is not in line with the Cornish project consensus. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:32, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

"Chicken fucker" vandalism[edit]

Just a heads up to all admins, the blocked user Fullthrottle523 (talk · contribs) is going round vandalizing BLPs with statements calling the article's subject a "chicken fucker" or variations thereof. I have semi-protected a few articles already, but I suspect there may be more. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:32, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

John Oliver's fault, he implied on his HBO comedy show that people should add "chicken fucker" to the Wikipedia pages of people who voted against certain farming regulations. See video for the complete list of people he mentioned (it is near the end). Winner 42 Talk to me! 15:38, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, but it's hard to stay mad at John Oliver when he has the smartest and funniest show on television. MastCell Talk 15:44, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Kids eh? Without wishing to sound like a grumpy old fart, 40 years ago people thought Bernard Manning making racist jokes was funny and Jimmy Savile was a harmless eccentric .... how times change. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 15:53, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
"Fat? fat? Mother-in-law"? Martinevans123 (talk) 19:00, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
I just indeffed Lildeal223 thinking it was block evasion.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 15:50, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
The list is the members of the House Appropriations Committee. The previous week Jon Stewart called for vandalizing the Warren G. Harding article. Might be worth filing a WP:RFPP ASAP when anyone sees a show recommending editing WikiP articles in the future. MarnetteD|Talk 15:52, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
There is a long list of targeted articles at the biographies of living persons noticeboard and comments that they should be semi-protected. I agree with User:MarnetteD that when a television personality refers to Wikipedia articles, pre-emptive semi-protection might be a good idea. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:59, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Here is a direct link to the thread at BLPN Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons/Noticeboard/Archive223#Potential for some abuse in the next month or so on multiple pages. I don't know if anyone wants consolidate the two threads or not. MarnetteD|Talk 16:05, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Having actually alerted the admin to the Harding abuse and doing this thread, I didn't know if RFPP would be appropriate due to the fact that it would have been speculative in nature. At the same time, I am wondering if we should ask someone to pen an e-mail to HBO (and even Comedy Central) to ask that they abstain from encouraging mass-vandalism, because it causes a lot of trouble on our end. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 17:26, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
I am afraid that they will just laugh at a letter like that. In fact it is likely that will encourage them to suggest new articles to hit. When a show (high profile or otherwise) asks viewers to edit WikiP articles there is no speculation about what will happen. Having said that please note that I said "file" a RFPP not "preemptively protect" - the mere filing will alert admins to the situation and then they can add any articles to their watchlists and protect it when things get out of hand. MarnetteD|Talk 18:18, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
  • (a) I agree someone should write to Stewart and Oliver. They are both responsible people of good will, and while I'm disappointed no one on their staffs is apparently enough of a WP editor to have warned them off, I wouldn't be surprised if they took our concern to heart, or even apologized.
(b) I do not think preemptive protection is appropriate just because an article is mentioned on the air. It's hard to predict what factors will cause a mention to turn into vandalism, just as it's hard to predict what factors will turn a mention into a new editor or two for us. We should always wait and see. EEng (talk) 18:39, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
They are entertainers and both of mentioned Wikipedia articles before. They and their staff could care less about what happens with Wikipedia articles. Remember that they both specifically asked their viewers to hit the articles in question because it helped them get their point across in a humorous fashion. But hey, look on the bright side, the fact that WikiP was mentioned on those shows puts paid to the "WikiP's demise is imminent" rumors. MarnetteD|Talk 18:52, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes, plus Wikipedia deals with vandalism all the time and this probably isn't going to lead to any very significant increase in the problem. Just deal with it in the normal way if you feel so inclined. But remember to check the sourcing - we don't want to end up whitewashing anyone's article if they actually are a chicken fucker. Formerip (talk) 19:14, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Larry Flynt actually bragged about it. I don't know if it's in his article. Randy Kryn 19:18, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Yes, very good points. This incident shouldn't blind us to the fact that, statistically, at least a few of these people probably are chicken fuckers in the privacy of their own campaign-contribution counting rooms, of course. See WP:CHICKENFUCKER. EEng (talk) 22:47, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
I've just blocked TimRyan ChikenUcker (talk · contribs). Another aspect to consider.  —SMALLJIM  19:08, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

A nice shortcut for checking these pages is to use Related Changes on the Appropriations Committee page - click here to check -- Fuzheado | Talk 19:25, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

I've just thrown an edit filter together to help with tracking this, see Special:AbuseFilter/689 which will flag additions of "chicken fucker" to articles. Sam Walton (talk) 21:14, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Unfortunately, the vast majority of those adding this to articles are not adding the exact phrase "chicken fucker". See the diffs here for a sense of the creativity being used to introduce this concept in articles. Be prepared to look for "sexual conduct", "sexual congress", "fornicator", "intimate relations", "trysts with chickens", etc. Dwpaul Talk 23:29, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
"Crimes most foul"? EEng (talk) 23:33, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
Pretty sure egging them on is a bad idea. Blackmane (talk) 01:12, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Egging them on? EEng (talk) 04:22, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
You heard me. :D Blackmane (talk) 04:26, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
You crack me up. EEng (talk) 05:02, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
Stop being foul, you @#$%!en $%^#ers. Epic Genius (talk) 17:21, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
The attempts at spelling "fowl" have been poultry. Blackmane (talk) 00:54, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

On a serious note, I think that all of these terms should be flagged as well. Epic Genius (talk) 17:21, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Disruption of AFD discussion[edit]

There's an AFD at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Diploma in Homoeopathic Medicine & Surgery, started by the original creator of the article, User: AKS.9955, who has apparently decided that a community decision on whether to delete or keep it is appropriate - I am aware of no policy reason why an author should not do that with their own article. User:Wikimandia has decided that such an action constitutes a G7 speedy deletion request, and has argued that at some length in the discussion. I have pointed out that he/she is wrong and have asked for his/her policy basis for insisting that it is a G7, and even the author himself has clearly stated that "My personal opinion is not to delete the article". Even after all that, User:Wikimandia tagged Diploma in Homoeopathic Medicine & Surgery with a G7 speedy deletion request, despite that clearly not being the wish of the author. I reverted and warned User:Wikimandia not to put the G7 tag back, and he/she promptly went ahead and put it back again. It's clearly not a G7, and User:Wikimandia appears to be deliberately acting tendentiously. I request admin action against User:Wikimandia to stop the disruption and allow the AFD discussion to progress. Mr Potto (talk) 11:53, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Oh, and he/she's calling the article creator a moron too. Mr Potto (talk) 11:55, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
And he/she's edit warring to reinstate the G7 tag. I've reverted once more but I won't revert any further as I don't want to risk 3RR. (I guess it might be a valid exception even if it's perhaps not blatant vandalism, but I don't want to risk it.) Mr Potto (talk) 11:58, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
I agree. This person is wikilawyering tendentiously. I don't understand why someone would nominate an AfD if they don't want the article deleted, but since that's what they've explicitly said it does not qualify for G7. Reyk YO! 12:03, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Lame. User: AKS.9955 nominated two of his own articles for deletion at the AfD but does not want them deleted (??). According to others, he is doing this to prove some kind of point because he thinks someone else should have nominated them for deletion (?). Nobody is discussing the actual articles but it's full of petty arguing. AfD is not the appropriate forum for this. If nobody is sincerely nominating these articles for deletion, they should not be on AfD. Either speedy delete per WP:G7 or withdraw the nomination. If MrPotto is so concerned about being polite, note he called me stupid. МандичкаYO 😜 12:02, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

  • Thank you Mr Potto, I am the creator of the article and also nominated it for WP:AfD. I did that simply because the discussions were turning into argument, with both of us trying to prove our points (we both might have valid reasons also). If the articles fails WP:GNG or WP:SPAM, then they should not be on Wikipedia and hence I nominated it (although this action should have been taken by the editor who was discussing the matter with me). In any case, just because the creator nominated the page for AfD does not mean been it should be speedily deleted. I did not open the AfD for discussion and I sure you read there that I raised an objection to the other editor for starting a discussion there. I also noticed that User:Wikimandia abused me there when I was not even talking to her. I have posted a caution on her TalkPage and also a message on the AfD discussion. If she does not put an apology forward, I am going to report her. Thanks for your time. Cheers, Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk) 12:07, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
@Wikimandia: Whether or not the AFD is valid and whether or not is it pointy, it is still *not* the equivalent of a G7 speedy delete request. You might think that's what the author should do, but the fact is he hasn't and has clearly said he doesn't want it deleted, and you do not have the right to force a G7 on his behalf. (As for my "stupid" remark, you will see that I struck it soon after I made it, and I apologize for a moment of frustration with someone who clearly wasn't listening.) Mr Potto (talk) 12:09, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
  • And User:Wikimandia is escalating the personal attacks. Mr Potto (talk) 12:16, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
  • I really fail to see how that's a personal attack. Additionally, I couldn't care less that you called me stupid, as 1) I'm not 12 years old and 2) I'm not stupid. Kindly take your drama off AfD and discuss it elsewhere. As you have not made any contribution toward a discussion of deleting or keeping the article, it's unclear why you are there. МандичкаYO 😜 12:24, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
    • At the moment I'm there to try to stop your tendentious disruption of the AFD request so that people who wish to discuss it can do so in a calm and peaceful manner, as that seems to be a necessary precursor. Mr Potto (talk) 12:53, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Well this is certainly entering (or is already at) WP:LAME territory. Wikimandia, I really suggest you drop the stick and walk away here. AKS.9955 has clearly stated he doesn't want the article deleted, therefore, it's not G7. The personal attacks are unnecessary as well. only (talk) 12:27, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Agreed, this is new levels of WP:LAME. The claims of personal attacks is also fail as far as I'm concerned. МандичкаYO 😜 13:21, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
  • And the trolling continues. If there are any admins around, do those of us who wish to address the AFD intelligently and in line with policy really have to put up with this disruption for much longer? Mr Potto (talk) 13:42, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

I strongly disagree with the claim that there is something amiss with nominating your own article for deletion and then !voting against deletion. If I create an article and other editors are of the opinion that it should be deleted but don't know enough to list it at AfD, I might very well list it myself to give the opinion of the newbies a fair hearing. Nothing wrong with that. --Guy Macon (talk) 14:42, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Guy Macon That's what the discussion page is for. Additionally, you will commonly see people creating an AfD and then adding another vote to delete it; that vote is struck out and they are told, "you don't need to add that second vote. Nominating counts as your vote." Would you nominate something for a WP:GOODARTICLE or WP:DYK and then claim you were NOT actually nominating it, you just wanted to see what others thought about it and if it should be nominated? Seriously, does that make any sense?
  • By the way, to any admins reading this, I'd like to point out that Mr Potto has had an account for about three weeks, but half of his contributions to Wikipedia are related to this stupid AfD conversation today and most of the others are on talk pages or other administrative stuff. He's not a sock and I'm the queen of England. МандичкаYO 😜 16:29, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Personally, I prefer a new user who comes up to speed quickly over an old user who's still so confused about policies that he or she thinks that "long-term coverage" is required for notability [5]. EEng (talk) 19:11, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
When the nominator explicitly says "My personal opinion is not to delete the article and have merely nominated this as an editor "feels" that this article fails WP:GNG and is WP:SPAM (promotional) in nature. Please don't take my nomination OR comment as the recommendation (either way) and use your own judgment", then you either have to be exceptionally stupid or a troll to keep insisting that they're asking for it to be deleted as a CSD:G7. I have to say I'm surprised that someone with your years of experience could understand AFD and CSD so poorly, could have such an apparently weak understanding of plain English, and could apparently be so unfamiliar with the old adage about holes and digging, Wikimandia. Also, your Majesty, if you believe you have evidence that I am abusively using multiple accounts, I believe you are supposed to provide it at WP:SPI rather than throwing around unsupported accusations. Mr Potto (talk) 17:37, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
"Your Majesty" -- good one! EEng (talk) 19:02, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
"I must make a note about this shocking proposal!" Martinevans123 (talk) 19:26, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
@Wikimandia: Your personal attack on Mr Potto (accusing of sockpuppetry, especially with no evidence whatsoever) aside, Wikipedia does allow multiple accounts. Your claim of WP:CSD#G7 and attempts to edit war over it is an absolute farce. G7 says "If requested in good faith" It wasn't requested in any faith at all. It was requested unknowingly. G7 is for when an editor created an article, is the sole major contributor to it, and says something along the lines of "I f'd up, its my bad, feel free to delete". I see nothing of the sort here, regardless of whatever implied consent you think is given by bringing an article up for discussion at WP:AFD. ― Padenton|   18:16, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
The nomination-counts-as-your-vote-so-you-mean-G7-even-if-you-say-you-don't argument is perhaps the most perfectly distilled example of wikilawyering ever. EEng (talk) 17:03, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
Indeed. Particularly so since an AfD is not a vote. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:53, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
I think it's useful to point out here that AfD originally stood for "Articles for Discussion", and at heart that's what it still is, really. EEng (talk)

 Comment::- Articles for deletion (WP:AfD) is where Wikipedians discuss whether an article should be deleted or not. I think Wikimandia misunderstood the WP:AfD process, that it is not a place where articles must be deleted at all cost but where Wikipedians determines the faith of articles after a period of policy-based arguments and the consensus there determines the faith of the article. It's usually not a good idea to assumed that a nominator of an article for deletion is doing that in bad faith and such assumption is usually frown upon. Having said that, I think Mr Potto is too hasty in bringing the issues here, it would have been better to resolve the issues with an univolved admin rather than ANI or better still Wikipedia:Dispute resolution noticeboard. I think am familiar with AKS.9955 and Wikimandia and what I can deduce from my experience with both editor is that they need some behavioral guidelines on how to interact with fellow editors if they are really here to build an encyclopedia. @Padenton: I actually thought it was a duplicate, thanks for reverting my edit. Wikigyt@lk to M£ 01:59, 18 May 2015 (UTC)

@Wikicology: I brought it here because Wikimandia was repeatedly adding a blatantly incorrect G7 tag to the article and refused to stop doing it when asked, and was clearly not open to a constructive dialog. That needed to be stopped, and I think this is an appropriate place to ask for help with that (and, I would have thought, an ideal place to find an uninvolved admin as you suggest). And the Dispute Resolution board would have been wrong, as that is for content disputes and this is not a content dispute. Mr Potto (talk) 08:23, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Wikigy; Firstly you should know what is being discussed here and why this issue has been brought here by Mr Potto. Secondly (and as I cautioned you earlier); be careful of using strong language against me. You have a habit of putting others down just to prove how smart you are; go do it somewhere else. Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk) 06:52, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

Personal attacks and repeated abuses by Wikimandia[edit]

An AfD discussion Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Diploma in Homoeopathic Medicine & Surgery is going on. During the discussion (and without any provocation), Wikimandia abused me. To this, I raised an objection there and also posted a caution on her TalkPage. She not only continues to be unapologetic, but increased her attacked on her TalkPage. There is another ANI (this) open against her. Whilst I am posting this on the notice board, I am issuing another caution notice to her for personal attacks. I hope that the user will be dealt with accordingly. Many thanks, Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk) 12:25, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

There's no need for a separate section for this; you can add the comments in the section above. only (talk) 12:31, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
  • only, honestly I was thinking the same too but then still decided to start a new topic as both subjects are related but still different. I hope this will be in line. If you still want, I can delete this OR ask for an admin to merge this request with the one above. Please let me know. Cheers, Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk) 12:33, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
  • How about we just change the heading level to make this a subsection of the above section? (I've been bold and done it, so I hope that's acceptable to all.) Mr Potto (talk) 12:48, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Mr Potto, I suggest that we create a separate section for "Personal attacks and repeated abuses...." as the user not only refuses to listen but has not started mocking everyone. I have taken the liberty to re-create the section. Cheers, Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk) 13:49, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Sure, entirely up to you. Mr Potto (talk) 13:51, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

Comment: None of this mess would have occurred if those involved had followed Wikipedia guidelines and discussed issues on the article talk page, rather than edit-warring, starting an AfD with an invalid deletion rationale ("I don't want the article deleted" isn't a rationale for deletion, obviously), and engaging in endless sniping at each other in the AfD and here. I suggest trouts all round, along with instructions to use article talk pages for debates in future. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:51, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

This would not have happened had one editor not been edit warring to add a blatantly incorrect G7 speedy deletion tag to the article, and trying to divert this from that simple truth is not, in my opinion, very helpful. If someone (article creator or other) believes that a discussion should be held on whether an article should be deleted, then AFD seems to me to be precisely the place to conduct it. Mr Potto (talk) 19:16, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
  • AndyTheGrump, That's NOT what is being discussed here now. Issue here is that an editor is being abusive and has been reported. What you are trying to do is reduce number of WP:ANI reports against her from 2 to 1. Don't do it again. Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk) 19:11, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
  • AndyTheGrump, apologies if I was curt. Its just that I am lost in-between too many abuses and bad comments - it was an honest WP:AfD nomination and God only knows why people started getting personal rather than a simple keep or delete. Back on the subject of this report, I originally had started this a separate topic and would intend it to stay that way. Cheers, Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk) 19:17, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
No less than Administrator Chillum edited this to be a subtopic of the above, and several of us editors agree with him. There is no need to make it a separate topic – Administrators can walk and chew gum at the same time: they can figure out what's going on here. So there is no need for a separate topic for this – please leave it as a subtopic. --IJBall (talk) 19:22, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
I think that Arun Kumar SINGH needs to understand that once an issue is raised on WP:ANI, the broader background is very much open to discussion if relevant. And that AfDs are not votes... AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:28, 17 May 2015 (UTC)

 Comment::- AKS.9955's edit history and the way they often interact with other editors does not shows they are here to build an encyclopedia and they often want to attack and insult any editor who disagree with them. I strongly believe that any editor that is not here to collaborate with other editors is certainly not here to build an encyclopedia. I want to give the chronology of my experience with them. I noticed that User:AKS.9955 usually gives wrong rationale at AfDs and I left a note on their talk page here, they responded by accusing me as "fault finding editor" [6]. I responded to that comment [7] with clarification. They solicited for my help [8] and I rendered it. Few weeks later, I notify them of the nomination of one of their non-notable article [9] and they responded aggressively here, I responded [10], they responded with an attack here and on my talk page here and I responded [11]. They engaged in off-topic discussion and this was removed by Stalwart111 [12] and they accused User:Stalwart111 of WP:GANG against them here the discussion was closed as Delete. Before the discussion was closed, they also left an insulting wording on my talk page [13], I removed it here, they re-posted the same content I removed again from my talk page here. The way they also react to Jeffro77 on their talk page for example here and the editor's own talk page [14] does not show that they are here to build an encyclopedia. I point out all this simply because of my experienced with them and am not sure of what they might have done with other editors too. Their response to my initial comments in the above speak for itself. Wikigyt@lk to M£ 09:06, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

 Comment::- Wikicology: Its nice to see how much time you spend on proving how right you are and how to frame someone else. Before you say anything else, you should look at your own AfD record and the lame reasons you have given there. In any case, I have no inclination to talk to someone like you or Jeffro77 and have made it very clear to both parties. What you are doing here is instead of staying on the subject of "disruptive editing" and "personal attacks" by another user in question (for which this ANI discussion was started), you are trying to settle some past scores and also trying to prove to everyone how "wise" you are. In any case, I will NOT respond to any further messages from you unless you have something constructive to say. Stop dragging my name into matters when I am trying to work on more meaningful things. Arun Kumar SINGH (Talk) 09:22, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure there's any "framing" there. The discussion that included me did include a lot of back and forth that could have been avoided if there hadn't been an obvious language barrier. Arun, you jump to conclusions without understanding the policy background and you tend to assume to worst of people (like the suggestion I was ganging up on you and the suggestion you are being framed). The diffs speak for themselves in many of the cases cited. If nothing else, you need to take a step back, breath and read what has been written before shooting from the hip. Stlwart111 10:59, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Folks, as far as I'm concerned this thing is settled, and the AFD discussion is progressing just fine. There's been some heated disagreement, but I'm happy to see all sides as having done things in good faith -- good faith editors can very easily get into disputes like this in this unforgiving medium (and it only takes a brief reading of this very page to see that). I strongly suggest we all drop this now and move on, and I'd be happy to see this whole section closed myself. What do you say? Mr Potto (talk) 14:07, 20 May 2015 (UTC)


NAC - duck block for sock and explanation to original account handled by Diannaa. MarnetteD|Talk 03:49, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

StQuery2 (talk · contribs) is a sock of StudentQuery (talk · contribs). [15]

Please block, and hope, for the love of God, after the massive attempts at explaining wikipedia rules [16] [17], they'll finally get the message and appeal in the appropriate way. Or CIR. (talk) 22:14, 20 May 2015 (UTC)

The appropriate place to file this complaint would be at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations, following the instructions there. SilverSurfingSerpant (talk) 22:20, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
No need to further burden our overworkd SPI board: I have blocked as an obvious duck sock and will explain to the user how to post an unblock request on his original acct. -- Diannaa (talk) 00:07, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Abuse of blocking policy by User:Ritchie333[edit]

Boomerang. Sergecross73 msg me 03:31, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

At 13.10 on 18 May, User:Ritchie333 said "I'm not intending to block the Best known for IP as I'm WP:INVOLVED.[18]

Two days later (not long after he deleted an edit summary with the absurd claim that the word "idiot" was "Grossly insulting, degrading, or offensive", see above):

  • 19:18, 20 May 2015 Ritchie333 (talk | contribs) blocked (talk) with an expiry time of 72 hours (anon. only, account creation blocked, cannot edit own talk page) (Best known for IP)
  • 18:39, 20 May 2015 Ritchie333 (talk | contribs) blocked (talk) with an expiry time of 1 week (anon. only, account creation blocked, cannot edit own talk page) (Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Best known for IP) (talk) 02:41, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

I can't help but think this is the same person, under yet another IP, misusing the word "abuse" in efforts to get Ritchie in trouble. Are you the same IP that called someone an idiot in an edit summary? I can't imagine anyone else but that IP who wrote it knowing about it or caring about it (it was only active for a few hours), let alone feeling that the removal of a personal attack was somehow detrimental to the website. Sergecross73 msg me 02:55, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
The revision delete policy is very clear, and Ritchie333 violated it. The blocking policy is equally clear, and Ritchie333 violated it having already shown that he understood it. I note that you have blocked someone you were involved in a content dispute with and made personal attack against as well. Perhaps it's no wonder that you don't understand what "abuse" means. (talk) 03:12, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
Three IP editors from the same wireless carrier in Chile, using similar idiomatic English and posting on the same topic. Obviously these are three completely different and unrelated individuals. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 03:05, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
This just screams WP:EVASION. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:19, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
And do Ritchie333's actions scream "abuse", or do they merely whisper it? (talk) 03:22, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
I see now, maybe you should just create an account? The problem is the IP you are using enables anyone to edit Wikipedia from it. There has been a history of abuse with the IP address you are using so as I said account creation would be best. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 03:30, 21 May 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Editors are getting irresponsible nowadays QuartierLatin1968 and Howicus[edit]

@Toweringpeaks3:. Thank you for your advice. If you believe that their is a problem with other editors you need to a) notify them of the ANI discussion on their respective talk pages and b) specify what the problem is and include examples. Thanks,  Philg88 talk 05:46, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Addendum: Toweringpeaks3 is now blocked. -- Diannaa (talk) 13:59, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Once this editor decided to edit an article, please see to it that the article don't appear messy. This is what this editor did and I even leave a message for her- and also Howicus got rid of one section and I would like to talk to him but he said in his userpage he doesnot like to be able to access wikipedia becoz he goes to skol- quite sketchy not be responsible for what he did so make excuses. If I only know these people with their names revealed the people who are victimized by wikipedia will be very happy... this is a problem with your systemToweringpeaks3 (talk) 05:41, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

Apparently I'm about to be reported to the White House for either warning him about not threatening off-wiki action, or removing non-reliable references from a BLP, I'm not sure which. Can someone else take a look at this, please? --SarekOfVulcan (talk) 12:50, 22 May 2015 (UTC)
Blocked by Floq; see thread Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#User talk:Toweringpeaks3. -- Diannaa (talk) 13:59, 22 May 2015 (UTC)

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Battleground behavior by user Hijiri88, proposing topic ban[edit]

I'll be bold and close this as there have been several blocks and topic bans proposed, most of which had more "opposes" than "supports". There isn't consensus for any particular this moment. So, the conflict might be revisited in the future if the editors can't find a way to work together. (non-admin closure) Liz Read! Talk! 23:09, 21 May 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The user Hijiri88 posted this message today on the talk page of the article Korean influence on Japanese culture. He says that he will not speak to me anymore regarding an on-going content dispute and will instead ask for me to be topic-banned. However, my edits are constructive and it's hard to see what justification there is for Hijiri's attitude here. There is good reason to believe that the greater problems lie with Hijiri. Therefore, I am in turn requesting a topic ban for Hijiri from the article "Korean influence on Japanese culture" as a result of problematic behavior over the past year, including a very long-term pattern of incivility and battleground behavior. Although Hijiri has exhibited similar behavior in some other articles, cataloging it all would take too long, so I'll keep it relatively short and stick to issues relating to this one article.

Recently the user TH1980 began to make some reliably-sourced additions to the article Korean influence on Japanese culture, but Hijiri immediately began edit warring with him without consensus to delete the material. He reverted the same material TH1980 and I were adding five times in a 24-hour period. While reverting, Hijiri made uncivil and false claims in his edit summaries, repeatedly accusing TH1980 of being a sockpuppet despite having no evidence to support his claim. Hijiri also made uncivil comments to him in the talk page, including asking TH1980, "Who are you, and which other accounts have you used?"

If Hijiri was just having one bad day it would be different, but this has actually been going on for months and months. To see how long this has been going on, consider that way back in June of 2014 Hijiri created an attack page in his sandbox. The page had no purpose but to defame other Wikipedia users who had edited the article Korean influence on Japanese culture as being "POV pushers" and "sockpuppets". This attack page still exists, and now TH1980 is also on the list, who Hijiri claims is an "anti-Japanese" sockpuppet. It needs to be stressed that Hijiri has offered no proof for his nasty accusations and none of these users were ever proven to have engaged in sockpuppetry.

I imagine TH1980, as a Wikipedia user in good standing, wanted to play a productive role in editing the article, but how can he work with Hijiri when Hijiri assumes bad faith so openly that Hijiri repeatedly accuses him of being a sockpuppet to his face? I joined the conversation later and after making one constructive comment Hijiri immediately threatened me, telling me, "you need to be blocked per WP:CIR immediately". Hijiri continued to speak to me in an uncivil manner, including his comments like "learn to speak frickin' English" and "Please learn to speak English". I know how to speak English, so how many times is he going to tell me that? He also said, "I was about to close this comment with "you bloody buffoon"". By saying this, he actually did close the comment with "you bloody buffoon". He told me, "Why can't you get it through your thick skull" that Yamanoe Okura was not a Korean, in spite of the fact that numerous reliable sources, including the Cambridge History of Japan and articles by Roy Andrew Miller, do describe him as "a Korean". When I thanked TH1980 for his edits, Hijiri left a threatening message on my talk page and told me to "grow the hell up". He then made a completely fallacious statement and told me "if you are too stupid to understand that ... well". He openly assumes bad faith when he tells me, "I am only agreeing to post this here... so that constructive discussion can take place on the talk page. You have already demonstrated that you are incapable of this."

Now take a look at this clearly-disruptive comment he posted directly into the article. Hijiri deleted a reliable source while claiming that it was "twisted to say what the Korean ultranationalists who still seem to be running this page wanted it to say". Actually, Hijiri seems to accuse everyone who disagrees with him of POV-pushing or having a hidden agenda. Hijiri claimed that the reason why a "Chinese influence on Japanese culture" article does not exist is because "Chinese nationalists are apparently not insecure enough that they need to go onto English Wikipedia and denigrate another country's culture". At the same time in a related article he again called TH1980 a "Korean/anti-Japanese POV-pushing SPA" and called me an "incompetent user". He constantly accuses people who disagree with him of racism. He has accused both TH1980 and myself of "borderline racism". However, as the user Andrew Davidson said to Hijiri in one discussion about the article, "As for righting great wrongs, you seem to be the one on a mission".

On top of all this, perhaps one of the most serious problems with Hijiri's conduct on the article is his constant use of intimidation and threats against people he disagrees with. I myself have been threatened by him with administrative action literally over a dozen times in this particular article, including on these two occasions among others... "you would probably need to be either banned or blocked. You managed to avoid this result last time", and "I would take you to ANI and ask for a topic-ban, but on what topic would such a ban be? ALL Wikipedia editors are permanently banned from "original research" to begin with. Is it a block you want?" What is notable about these two threats is that they were issued against me BEFORE I had even edited the article in question. I was threatened with administrative action only because I commented on the article. I have never been blocked from Wikipedia before, so there is no reason why I should have been threatened this many times. Incidentally, Hijiri was warned by another user about making threats against me on a different article, but despite this Hijiri can barely make a single post nowadays without threatening me with administrative sanctions.

Hijiri also has problems with using sources, which he often does not read before citing. Perhaps most egregious of all was a whopping 1,000 word post he made rebutting an article which he admits at the beginning "I haven't read". It's a waste of others users time when Hijiri spends so long critiquing sources he hasn't even read. Unlike Hijiri I had read the article in question, so I quoted a relevant section to him. Surely a normal user would have thanked me for verifying the source, but Hijiri just launched into a long tirade against me. Again he accuses me of original research just for quoting a scholarly work in the talk page. Even when I told Hijiri that he should only criticize sources after reading them he responded "the only legal way I can access most of these English-language academic sources from American and European publishers is by ordering them off Amazon... how may I ask do you expect me to judge these sources on their own merits?." Why does Hijiri delete and criticize sources he has not read? Well, once recently the user Nishidani added new information into the article on Yamanoe no Okura and Hijiri immediately began to delete portions of it. After being questioned about the matter by Nishidani, Hijiri admitted that he had deleted the sourced information because he had mistakenly believed that I was the one who had added it to the article. Hijiri notes here he was aware that it "violates AGF to assume Curtis has misread and misunderstood a source I haven't myself read". I think it's natural Wikipedia policy, however, that sources cited should be read and judged on their own merits. One shouldn't delete reliably sourced information just because one doesn't like the editor who puts it in the article, as Hijiri fully admits to doing here.

As you can see, a large percentage of the comments Hijiri made in the talk page, and even in the article itself, are hostile and abusive. Furthermore. Hijiri has done very little to improve the article. Virtually all his edits to the article are just reckless blankings and deletions even of sourced text. Sometimes he is so eager to delete things that he cuts sentences right in half making their meaning incomprehensible. Wikipedia is supposed to be based on collaborative editing, but Hijiri spends more of his time trying to intimidate other users than collaborate with them. I would like the admins to review the above evidence and ask the question as to whether this uncivil and overly confrontational behavior is actually constructive to the goal of improving the article rather than being disruptive.

  • Support topic ban as the proposer.CurtisNaito (talk) 20:31, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Well, I read your entire argument which is well constructed. My question is, how broad or how narrow is the topic ban you are proposing? Is it only for this article or are you arguing for a topical area that would contain multiple articles? Liz Read! Talk! 22:19, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
When I was reading the page, it didn't have Snow Rise's comment and your response posted but that is what I was trying to address with my comment. Liz Read! Talk! 22:22, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
I think he should be page-banned from the article Korean influence on Japanese culture. To be honest, I considered asking for something broader, but I was worried the admins wouldn't read it all, because there was an awful lot of dubious behavior to document. Therefore, I decided to stay focused only on issues relating to this one page. If you look below, user Snow Rise says, "I would have supported a topic ban on subjects relating to Japanese history and culture, broadly construed". Therefore, I am proposing only a page ban, whereas Snow Rise appears to be proposing a wide-ranging topic ban. Which of these two ultimately occurs is something that I will leave to the discretion of the relevant admins.CurtisNaito (talk) 22:28, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Support While the above is a tad TLDR, it builds a convincing case that Hijiri is not here to work with others, but has major WP:BATTLEGROUND and WP:OWNership issues. It does look like he's deliberately making it impossible for others to contribute to the article, and the unsubstantiated accusations and rude, dismissive comments, as well his behavior in the actual article text itself, indicates to me that he needs to be removed from this topic so quality work can commence. As someone who has never edited the area before, I don't have a pony in this race, but the behavior outlined above, as evidenced by the diffs, is unacceptable. --Jayron32 20:56, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Sorry, if you want I can shorten it down. What parts are most pertinent?CurtisNaito (talk) 20:57, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Support I am not a Korean/anti-Japanese POV pusher. Edits like this suggest Hijiri is not editing constructively. A topic ban would be the right solution here.TH1980 (talk) 21:07, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
I assume you are aware now that Hijiri88 has attacked you directly in his sandbox as well. My belief is that that whole page is an attack page which should be deleted.CurtisNaito (talk) 21:16, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
@CurtisNaito That is just deplorable on Hijiri88's part. I agree that his sandbox page should be deleted.TH1980 (talk) 02:41, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Those quotes from John Carter should be stricken out. He himself was demonstrating CIR issues and "gross incivility" in that dispute, and using his disruptive tactics as "evidence" only hurts your case. ミーラー強斗武 (StG88ぬ会話) 04:24, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Technically this is a pageban, not a topic ban. Personally, I would have supported a topic ban on subjects relating to Japanese history and culture, broadly construed, since this is obviously an area where Hijiri cannot edit collaboratively with others and I suspect we shall be seeing him here again soon on a similar topic. But I agree that CN has made his case here, and I have now seen enough content/personal disputes involving Hijiri on the noticeboards and elsewhere to know how willing he is to misrepresent the record to try to shoehorn in his preferred approach to content, sometimes seemingly without fully realizing that he is spinning the facts. A message needs to be sent here, since Hijiri has a tendency to pretty much universally reject or rationalize away any criticism of his behaviour. Snow let's rap 22:01, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
I was thinking of proposing that, but I didn't largely because I think the admins, in accordance with TLDR, often stop reading a post when it becomes too long. I think Hijiri has engaged in the same sorts of battleground behavior in other articles, but documenting that would take so long that no admin would want to read it all.CurtisNaito (talk) 22:05, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Unfortunately, the noticeboards have already seen an abundance of evidence of Hijiri's tendentiousness in this area. But as he is facing a pageban here and the possibility of two more in a thread above, I hope he will take the message with whatever narrower sanctions he might receive (or narrowly avoid, if that proves the case) and try to reach towards consensus and middle-ground solutions instead of the type of approach that has brought him here repeatedly. If he doesn't, I'm sure someone will propose a broader TBAN next time he is back here (as it will probably be for issues in the same content area). But as to the TLDR, yeah, I would definitely work on streamlining your presentation next time you might have to post here, even if you have a lot of evidence to provide; I very likely would not have slogged through all of that if I had not been pinged and was not familiar with the editor in question. Snow let's rap 22:48, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
Well, I could delete or box some of it now if you want. You said before that you support my proposal, so what was it from the above post that convinced you? If there are some parts which are not relevant, I can take them out now if you want.CurtisNaito (talk) 22:52, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Topic Ban (non admin) After reading what CurtisNaito wrote, and looking at the diffs, there is no question that an Topic ban is needed, and it should be an indef one. After reading a few sections dealing with Hijiri88 behaviour I believe a indef topic ban broadly defined is in order, but the op didnt ask for it. Violations of WP:CIVIL, WP:HARASS and WP:NPA by Hijiri88 have clearly been shown. AlbinoFerret 23:46, 15 May 2015 (UTC)
  • Note My "battleground behaviour" has been limited to telling CurtisNaito he is misusing sources and pointing out that many of the other editors he agrees with are obvious sockpuppets. I have spent almost two years trying to explain Wikipedia's sourcing policies to CurtisNaito, and he still doesn't get it. If anyone needs a topic ban it's CurtisNaito from ancient history articles. He has been wasting a massive amount of time on the part of other, more constructive editors like me, User:Nishidani and User:Sturmgewehr88. It's also worth noting that several of the other editors supporting a TBAN for me (Snow Rise and AlbinoFerret) clearly haven't read the talk page discussion in question and are only here as revenge for another dispute currently at the top of this page.because they have made a radically inaccurate assumption about my "disruptive behaviour" on other articles (they were both radically wrong there too -- Ctrl+F this page for "underlying content dispute") and assumed the same is true here. Hijiri 88 (やや) 00:06, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Excuse me, "revenge"? Would you care to strike that comment, please? I have never been in any kind of content or personal dispute with you anywhere on the project, and every single time I have taken part in a community discussion involving you, it has been because A) I was pinged there -- and three of those pings were made by you (1,2, 3), apparently because you thought my support for the content argument you made would extend to support for your behaviour broadly, which it did not and which I kept telling you well past each of those pings and your efforts to imply to others that my perspectives supported yours) -- and B) the discussion was taking place in a central community forum anyway. To the best of my knowledge AlbinoFerret has also never been in a content dispute with you for which he would be seeking revenge, nor do either of us have the least bit of history of developing content or policy disputes into personal grudges (ironically the very behaviour that has brought you to these noticeboards repeatedly and which you have been warned about by administrators (I have never in my time editing on the project been accused of such behaviour and certainly never received an administrative warning of that nature, nor of any sort, ever). Contrary to your statement (which is predicated on a claim to knowledge you could not possibly have) I did read over the discussions and evidence presented here in detail, and issued my opinion accordingly, which is the sum total of any "involvement" I've ever had with you anywhere.
This kind if behaviour (misrepresenting the perspectives of other editors and the motives of the community members that try to rein you in) is exactly the kind of thing that has made you the subject of so many different community discussions and administrative efforts to control your tendency to needlessly personalize discussions and adopt a battleground perspective to those who don't agree with you or are have concerns about the amount of editorial energy that gets sucked up by your combative behaviour -- and threads on that topic are essentially the full extent of my experience with you. So, what exactly am I meant to be seeking "revenge" for? Please be advised that making accusations of bad-faith actions for which you cannot provide evidence in the forms of diffs is considered a WP:Personal attack under policy, so if this is really the road you want to go down, feel free to see where it gets you; I guaruntee you that it's not going to help your case in this thread...
In the meantime, your efforts at misdirection and misrepresentation of other community members, which grow increasingly thin in general, have in this case devolved into outright lies about the degree and nature of my involvement with you on this project, so I would very much appreciate a retraction. And if you don't want my honest opinion of your behaviour, stop pinging me into discussions that review your behaviour as someone who supposedly will corroborate your positions! Snow let's rap 02:07, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
Fine. Maybe not "revenge". You radically misread the Kokuchukai dispute as being a content dispute between two users with opposing POVs (as has the user you think has a POV opposibg mune) and the exact same thing has happened here. CurtisNaito thinks @Nishidani:, @Sturmgewehr88: and I believe Korean influence on Japan is minimal, but none of us have ever actually said we believe that. We believe CurtisNaito has WP:COMPETENCE issues regarding how to read and cite sources and have grown incredibly frustrated trying to explain WP:PST and WP:V (among others) to him. (Ironically, this is exactly the same as the Kokuchukai article.) Please actually read the discussion in question before supporting one party's request that another be page-banned. Hijiri 88 (やや) 03:48, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
I'm not sure why you feel so confident repeatedly asserting that I did not follow up on that discussion, but -- saying this once again -- I did. But the content issues debated there are only so germane to why I !voted in support of the ban; what drove my decision was primarily concerns about WP:C and WP:NPA. I don't care how frustrated you are as a result of the fact that you feel you've had to repeatedly explain a policy argument to someone on the other side of a content dispute, it is never alright to resort to name-calling here. If you feel your ire rising to that point, you should back away from the discussion until you can make your argument without talking about your opponent's "thick skull". That's the real competency issue I see at work here. And it seems to be a part of a broader pattern, which is part of why I felt confident in supporting the measure proposed; it seems that when it comes to topics concerning Japanese nationalism and cultural identity, you just cannot keep your cool -- nor avoid developing grudges against those who oppose your approach, whose positions you often malign and discredit on the basis of the supposed prejudices of the other parties, rather than keeping the discussion fixed on the policy argument -- and that's very problematic. There have been a number of times (while I've reviewed the talk page discussions for the various Japanese history-related content disputes you've been involved with lately) where I agreed fully or in part with the content argument you were making but found the way you made that argument completely unacceptable and indicative of a lack of collaborative spirit in your approach to those topics.
Civility and cooperation are as essential to competence as understanding of content policies, and it's not an either/or situation -- you need to be able to know how to parse community consensus and do it without resorting to insulting those who see the matter differently -- argue the point, not the traits of the other editor, no matter how steamed you get. You make this all way too personal, and way too fast. If yours is the perspective that truly aligns with consensus (broad and local), then in the vast majority of cases, your approach will be adopted in the long run, provided you keep your cool and argue dispassionately. My support for the topic/page ban stems from the fact that questions of Japanese cultural identity seem to set your fuse short, and I believe in utilizing the minimally-effective sanction -- otherwise I would recommended a block for incivility, personal attacks, and inability to assume good faith. Snow let's rap 05:21, 16 May 2015 (UTC)

  • Oppose until underlying issue examined It is clear that Hijiri88 is using the wrong tactics (do not discuss editors on article talk pages, and do not use excited language), but I am concerned that the diffs might show that Hijiri88 is exhausted from dealing with problematic editors, and the proposed topic ban might be aimed in the wrong direction. For example, the "learn to speak frickin' English" diff looks like an "omg he was rude" moment, but the substance of the comment seems to be entirely accurate—Hijiri88 had commented on a source and its use of "Korean" as a noun to refer to a person; the response from CurtisNaito offers several items to reject Hijiri88's view, but each of the items is not what Hijiri88 had referred to. I clicked a few more links and did not see anything that could not be argued. Apart from raging at ANI, what dispute resolution has occured regarding the underlying issue? Johnuniq (talk) 01:50, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
That issue was already dealt with. At the time I hadn't checked the same source as Hijiri was using, but after I did it became clear that Miller does refer to Yamanoe Okura as "a Korean" using a noun, see here.CurtisNaito (talk) 01:56, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
The point is that you posted a diff showing someone using strong language, but on investigating the context it turns out that the language was provoked by blather that misrepresented the situation. That took place at the edit warring noticeboard, and what happened 24 hours later on an article talk page is irrelevant. Looking at the noticeboard again I see that Nishidani posted a very convincing statement (diff of tweak, search for "He was the descendent of a Kudara refugee who fled to Yamato" to see the comment) showing that, regardless of what Miller said, the above claim about Yamanoe Okura is absurd. Obviously the issue involves nationalistic POV pushing, but it is hard for those at ANI to determine whose removal would benefit the encyclopedia. Johnuniq (talk) 03:27, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
In regards to the original statement, I don't think there was cause for such controversy. The original source accurately noted that, "Another significant literary accomplishment of this period was the compilation of the Manyoshu... The Korean influence is also present in the anthology. One of the three main poets of the Manyoshu, Yamanoe Okura, it is now believed, was a Korean immigrant in Japan." The original text being put into the article said, "The poetry of Yamanoe Okura, a Korean who lived in Japan, demonstrates Korean influence on Japanese literature." There was no grounds to claim that any factual inaccuracies or misrepresentation occurred here.CurtisNaito (talk) 03:32, 16 May 2015 (UTC)
I am seconding Johnuniq. I oppose one-sided ban for either side & I also support sending to ArbCom I am an uninvolved editor with some passing knowledge with this topic. This really should go to WP:ARBCOM. There is bad behavior on both sides here (have you read some of the edit comments?) - what the sanctions for that should be need to be carefully examined. The fact finding for this topic area is non-trivial (e.g. determinations of POV pushing, reverts based on good/poor RS, etc). One of the problems is that in this area of scholarship there are at least two major factions with regard this topic with two disjoint bodies of scholarly RS. There is a "maximize Korean influence" faction, and there is a "minimize Korean influence" faction. (There is a "no influence" faction, but it's FLAT.) This leads to a major division in the RSs WRT this area - what one off-Wiki scholarly community considers reliable, other off-Wiki scholarly community considers poorly sourced, if not fiction. And vice versa. There is WP:BATTLEGROUND happen