Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive90

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User: aka User:Axl Reisdorffposting death threats[edit]

As noted above and by [1] this user under the actual username (not the IP) has posted a death threat directly to me, on my user page. I was wondering if it could be removed from the servers and also if any other actions need to be taken. --Pilot|guyFlughafensymbol.png 01:57, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, [2]. Whew. --Pilot|guyFlughafensymbol.png 00:43, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Users posting legal threats on my talk page[edit]

Hi, I wanted to report two users posting legal threats of "Oregon Police" on my talk page. I reverted the edits. I have no idea who they are. The users posting the legal threats were User:Vigilant and User:Jerryg. I looked at their contribs, and to be honest, I fail to understand why they are even on WP since their entire posting history seems disruptive. Sorry for bothering folks with this, but I read the policies and they state users should report legal threats. I have noticed these users also seem to be associated with and I had worked with one of the admins User:Katefan0 on some of their vandalism on Chad "Corntassel" Smith and Joe Byrd (Cherokee Chief). Thank you for letting me post here. Sint Holo 06:06, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Jeff, your reading comprehension is pretty poor for a Chief Scientist. I was reminding you of a threat you posted here on Wikipedia about contacting 'Oregon Law Enforcement' about my stalking you here. And I stand by the comment. --Jerry (Talk) 05:12, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I've taken a look, the diff covering both edits is [3], neither makes a legal threat. The reference to Oregon police is since they believe to you to be a reincarnation of a user blocked for making legal threats, I assume one of the threats that blocked user made was to report one of the users to the Orgeon police. --pgk(talk) 07:33, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Since I was named in an arbcom dispute raised by the blocked user, could another admin look into if there is any merit in the claim that this is the blocked user and act appropriately, e.g. asking the two users mentioned to AGF, or dealing with the block evasion as required. --pgk(talk) 07:37, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I am relieved. This person claimed they were calling the police. Thanks for explaining the situation. I will remove any such postings in the future since you have confirmed these users are merely reposting legal threats made by another user. Sint Holo 07:37, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Sint Holo is without any reasonable doubt another sock-puppet of multiply banned Jeff Merkey. See: --Vryl 11:27, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

This is where the "legal threats" started, at "User:PeyoteMan Request User and Talk page Protection. Also place Indef Block on my Account" by User:PeyoteMan.

Note that User:PeyoteMan == User:Waya_sahoni == User:Gadugi == User:Asgaya_Gigagei == User:insert_new_persona_here.

Any subsequent references to "waiting to hear from Oregon law enforcement" by the individuals named in "PeyoteMan's" post are making reference to this brief post by User:PeyoteMan -- talks_to_birds 03:15, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

IP 128.171.138.XXX posting unsupported allegations of child abuse against James Levine[edit]

Once again, this IP has inserted allegations of child abuse against James Levine (history) supported only by Usenet posts. Has been warned many times. Please block!! Thank you. Grover cleveland 06:14, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

The range given according to arin is the University of Hawaii, and the vandalism seems to have been originating from there since 4th April. If the vandalism continues we probably need to semi-protect the page in question and contact the university. --pgk(talk) 07:49, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Hmm.. on the one hand, WP:LIBEL suggests we should delete these from the page history. On the other hand, the rumors of James Levine's pedophilia are so widespread and longstanding (almost everyone involved with professional classical music in the U.S. believes that they know for a fact that Levine is a pedophile, a state of affairs which has held steady for at least 25 years), that I think it's worthwhile to mention the rumors in the article, if only to point out what the facts are: (1) no boy or man has ever publicly accused Levine of molesting him, (2) Levine has never been arrested or charged with anything in his life, and (3) (I'll have to look up the reference for this but I remember reading it) the rumors started shortly after Levine rejected a singer from something he was conducting for not being good enough, so it looks a lot like nasty revenge. So the question is, is it encyclopedia-worthy to have a section in his biography saying "These rumors exist and have been reported since X (with a citation), however no credible evidence exists to suggest that they are true"? (I have the same question regarding the rumors about Jamie Lee Curtis's alleged intersexuality.) I think such rumors do belong in articles, because people are going to come to Wikipedia wanting to find out the "true story" and will be surprised to find no mention of it, and will be inclined to add it themselves, sometimes (though not in this particular case) in good faith. Angr (talkcontribs) 08:14, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
This discussion probably belongs on the James Levine talk page, but wouldn't Wikipedia policy on WP:Verifiability demand that a published source be referenced to make even these claims? Grover cleveland 13:54, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
The specific discussion does belong there, but what I want to ask here is more general: if sources can be found confirming the existence of widespread rumors, and sources can be found showing that these rumors are unverifiable, isn't it encyclopedic to give that information? Every attempt to do so at Jamie Lee Curtis has been reverted, and given the current atmosphere at James Levine I suspect attempts to do so there will be reverted too. I think it's better to have a section saying "The rumors you may have heard have no basis in fact, here's why" rather than ignoring them altogether. Angr (talkcontribs) 14:52, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
This same sort of problem occurs frequently at Clay Aiken. Whether or not he is gay, and only he could tell us for sure, there are lots of longstanding rumors about his orientation, and those rumors should be reported, if there is documentation of the rumors and they are widespread. But blogs and Usenet postings wouldn't work. Are there print cites of these rumors for Levine? User:Zoe|(talk) 16:20, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, I thought so, but I'm not finding any now. Oh well, forget about it then. Angr (talkcontribs) 17:43, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Anyway, I just deleted all the libelous edits from the history in compliance with WP:LIBEL. Angr (talkcontribs) 14:48, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Please can you come back and repeat? He/she/it has reposted the malicious allegations, this time using a New York Times link to a story about Levine, which however totally fails to support the allegations. Thanks! Grover cleveland 01:07, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Do admins deserve harrassment?[edit]

I've had a lot of harassment in the last week from vandals who think that I'm a faggot for following policy. Even after a tounge-in-cheek comment on my user page that I have a girlfriend (for the record, I'm straight). Even after protection of user pages, there have been people emailing me saying "You are a faggot". Just because I blocked them, just because I followed policy. Just because I'm an admin. It's not just me with this harrassment, female admins get imposters with sexual and crude names. Anyone who follows policy is automatically harassed. There needs to be harsher penalties for harassment/homophobic comments. Otherwise, the project will deterioate with innocent editors leaving Sceptre (Talk) 16:10, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

A major problem I think is that many of these people consider Wikipedia to be a giant bulletin board, not an encyclopedia (or they have no respect for the concept of an encyclopedia). --kingboyk 16:13, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
The answer to your question, Sceptre, is no. That will be £200/hour charge-out rate plus travelling expenses. --Sam Blanning(talk) 16:15, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Sceptre didn't actually ask a question, Sam. Angr (talkcontribs) 16:21, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Wait?! are we not supposed to answer rhetorical questions?-- 16:23, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I know you aren't but what am I? --Sam Blanning(talk) 16:33, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Admins don't deserve it and neither do users. Those following policy deserve it even less.--Pro-Lick 16:16, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
With my e-mail filtering, any such e-mails would go directly to the spam folder and I wouldn't ever see them, yet alone respond. --Aude (talk | contribs) 16:23, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Gmail's spam filter sucks (I get spam in the inbox and conversely, I get WikiEN-l in spam). I'm reporting to Yahoo anyway of these users Sceptre (Talk) 16:26, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
What amuses me is the vandals who think they're insulting me by calling me gay, since I am gay. Now if they really wanted to get my goat, they'd write ANGR IS STR8!!!111!!! on my user page, but no one's ever thought of that yet... (uh-oh, did I just violate WP:BEANS?) Angr (talkcontribs) 16:26, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Yes you did, actually :D. I was going to put that some prominent users (such as you, Essjay, Francs2000, to name off the top of my head) are actually gay, but thought not to Sceptre (Talk) 16:32, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Also, while of course you can do what you want with your user page... but my suggestion is that maybe you should remove some of the personal information from your user page (e.g. age, birthday), and not make your e-mail addresses so readily available there. That might help. If people find the "email user" link in the navbox, that's fine - they can e-mail me. But if they can't figure that out, that's fine too. --Aude (talk | contribs) 16:28, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I do think that admins, when acting in their official capacities (cf., in their capacities as editors), ought to be more willing and better able to handle receiving vituperative or pejorative comments. It is often suggested that police, for example, inasmuch as they are people in whom power is reposited and who are expected to be well-trained and trustworthy, must handle situations more calmly and with tougher skin than might other people; what are fighting words to most people oughtn't necessarily to be so for the police. We also apply different libel standards--in general--when dealing with figures who are public, especially those who are volitionally so. Here, admins agree to take on added responsibilities for the project, and, as such, are bound to upset more people than they would as simple editors; I think it follows that they should be willing to accept, without reaction, more criticsm--even where made in bad faith and in contravention of WP:NPA--than would a "simple editor". I should say that I do see that many users, upon becoming admins, show more tolerance for harassment/abuse against them, and so I think that most have the right idea in this respect. Joe 18:10, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
That's like saying a woman deserves to be raped because she's asking for it. That's like saying Gator1 deserves to lose his job because he blocked a vandal. User:Zoe|(talk) 20:24, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I think most/all of us accept that we will face abuse at times, and vandalism of our user pages. That doesn't make it right, however. Unlike the police or the military we're not paid, nor do we send people to prison or shoot them. Some of the "offenders" here (in addition to not grasping that this an encyclopedia!) no sense of perspective. The Gator1 case illustrates that beyond all measure really. --kingboyk 20:33, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Promising not to clutter AN/I anymore after this post...IMHO, Zoe's rape analogy is not particularly apt, if only because here the conduct about which I write is only discursive. I agree with Kingboy that, even as one accepts that he/she will be the victim of personal attacks, he/she needn't to concede that just attacks are proper, and I never meant to offer a normative view apropos of personal attacks. What I meant to say, what I think I did say, was that admins should have sufficiently thick skin that, when personal attacks are levelled against them for things done in their official capacities, they oughtn't to seek the issuance of/to issue a block. With respect to Zoe' Gator1 analogy, I don't think that such a comparison properly flows from what I said; there is surely a difference between one's making a personal attack on a talk page and one's taking extra-Wiki action, toward which proposition I adduce that one who refers derogatorily to another editor is not blocked for the same amount of time as one who negatively involves him/herself with another editor off-Wiki or disseminates personal details. None of this means that I countenance personal attacks--I don't, and I don't make them--but I think that an admin must overlook those attacks made against him/her for his/her admin actions, unless those personal attacks are profoundly disruptive to Wikipedia. After all, one of the reasons for which we have WP:NPA--I think the primary reason--is that the making of personal attacks disrupts the collaborative environment on the existence of which Wikipedia depends; where criticism is directed at an admin qua admin (as against admin qua editor), there is little disruption of the editing process. I regret any inference made from my comments to the effect that I support the making of personal attacks against admins or that I think the anon in the Gator1 case was correct to act as he did; I mean simply to say that, where a user, objecting to an admin action, imputes bad faith or employs hostile terminology, an admin, both as a trusted Wikipedian and as someone who has elected to be "the public face of Wikipedia" to many first-time editors, should perhaps simply overlook the attack (I think, FWIW, as I said above, that most do). Joe 21:43, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I frequently get "Deskana is a douche" or people changing my name on my userpage from "Daniel Garry" to "Daniel Gay". To be honest I just laugh. These are people who are taking the piss and saying "I'm not a vandal you gay boy" or "You're an idiot, I'm not a vandal, get your facts straight you *%*&$&* ". I ignore most of it... but you're right, nobody deserves it. I've learned to deal with the massive amounts of chavs that I have to deal with at work... nobody should have to, but that's life, unfortunately. --Darth Revert (AKA Deskana) (talk) 15:23, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

At one point, that's all you can do. I've left easy links in my user page for everyone to see the utter stupidity I've had posted on my page... Titoxd(?!? - help us) 03:33, 13 April 2006 (UTC)


this isn't a giant bulletin board? then where am I supposed to go to advertise for my yard sale! you people are mean ): 16:19, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

School bring and buy sales, on the other hand... --Sam Blanning(talk) 16:33, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm still getting nasty emails from User:Homeworld5, even though I am filtering his email account. He seems to keep creating new accounts just to send me more abusive email. User:Zoe|(talk) 16:45, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I banned one of his socks when I saw him vandalize Zoe's userpage, and he immediately sent me a charming email saying that Zoe and I are cunts. Who says the art of letter writing is lost? · Katefan0(scribble)/poll 17:52, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Oh, you get those too? I think I have six now. User:Zoe|(talk) 20:27, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Yes it's bad. I got my personal details published on an attack site for enforcing WP:NPOV, so I know how it feels. In the end you just have to stand up to them. And *never* reply to their emails. Just zis Guy you know? 21:20, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, I couldn't resist the other day when one sent me an email saying "I hate you". I replied with "But, I love you." User:Zoe|(talk) 22:51, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Flower power, nice move Zoe :-o 23:09, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Could be worse: I ran afoul of Jack Sarfatti a couple of weeks ago, and to date, he's sent me roughly 150 e-mails -- and that's a conservative estimate. Apparently I'm a Maoist Cyber-Terrorist. Also, apparently helping suppress the truth about Nazi flying saucers. --Calton | Talk 07:39, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
I just got one from someone who called me a standard sexual expletive, demanding to be unblocked or else. There was no identifying information, so I have no idea which vandal sent it. The delete key is your friend ... anyone else notice that they hit the "delete" key with more force than most of the other keys on the keyboard? :-/ Antandrus (talk) 17:53, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Oh yes, I love those ones :-) You kind of wonder if they think it's personal and they are the only account you ever blocked. Just zis Guy you know? 19:56, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Hey, look at the bright side. All that vandalism and hate mail means someone cares about you. Um...maybe not in a good way, but in some way. Most users are largely ignored. Until I started voting for stuff and joined esperanza, I never got any messages. Most users barely get anything unless they average over 200 edits a month, or they're pissing a bunch of people off. It's only blockings and deletions that give you a red badge of courage, and for that, you must be an admin. Sometimes I actually wish I was an admin, because then I wouldn't have to go out of my way to find stuff to fix when I log on. There would just be a bunch of people waiting for me, bitching on my talkpage. You have to enjoy the bitching and the vandalism. I would—I enjoy it outside of Wikipedia.--The ikiroid (talk parler hablar paroli 说 話し parlar) 19:15, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Accusations of libel and fraud in article space[edit]

I can't say I had the time to read these complaints fully or understand the context, but the contributions of User: seem to suggest serious accusations of libel in article space. CanadianCaesar Et tu, Brute? 03:09, 12 April 2006 (UTC) (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · page moves · block user · block log) is making inappropriate legal accusations in article edits of Patricia Cornwell. The rest of IP edits are stronger complaints such as this [4] in multiple places in Wikipedia, including Ticket#2006040610007535. Personal information is included. FloNight talk 05:01, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Since the IP is from the Netherlands, I would bet dime to dollars the editor in question is Les Sachs. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 05:18, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
That matches the signature of some edits. Do you think there is anything in the messages that needs to be deleted versus removed from view? FloNight talk 05:29, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Do a search for "patricia cornwell" and "sachs" and you'll see that his stuff is spewed all over the place. It seems defamatory as all hell to me. I've been unable to find any references to the legal mess that caused Sachs to run to the Netherlands -- any not written by Sachs, that is. Deleting it might be a good idea. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 06:03, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
I posted the only legit article I could find to the talk page. Thatcher131 14:23, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Ah-ha, thanks. So, how do we get the defamatory material removed? --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 15:33, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Delete the entire article and then restore all the edits except the defamatory ones (and any edits doing nothing except reverting defamatory edits). Angr (talkcontribs) 15:53, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
However, I've just looked through the page history of Patricia Cornwall and there's nothing that's actually LIBELous, just some POV skewing that's been reverted. I think the history can stay as it is. Angr (talkcontribs) 15:59, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Angr, the problem is not the article. It is the other edits by User: Look through contribution history. FloNight talk 16:18, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Comment- I've spent the past hour collecting references to do a major rewrite/expansion. There is lots of information about her life that is available and not included in our bio. I'm going to source every detail making it harder to add unsourced stuff. --FloNight talk 15:59, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Comment: Please keep comments specific to the article to that talk page... But regarding the problem with Sachs adding POV nonsense, it's already hard to add unsourced stuff as a number of us have that article on our watchlist and remove any edits like that as soon as we see them. Please do not try to solve a problem that doesn't exist by making radical changes. Sachs is just like a lot of netkooks out there, no need to get bent out of shape, as we handle these kind of incidents all the time. DreamGuy 16:55, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Sachs is under an injunction not to make attacks against Cornwell or use her name to promote his book. The edits here were partly to article space but also to places like Wikipedia:Wikiquette alerts, and Wikipedia:AMA Requests for Assistance. The question is, should these allegations be removed from wikipedia, not just from article space but from these other spaces, and should the edits be deleted from the page history instead of just reverting (due to the injunction). I don't know what the answer should be. By the way, I have access to the full court decision if someone wants it. Thatcher131 04:22, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
    • Actually I'm a bit more concerned now as I have found the allegations are on the Talk:Patricia Cornwell and have not even been blanked. Sachs is apparently under an injunction in the US from making these allegations so he went overseas, however we are still in the US. Has a Foundation attorney ever expressed an opinion as to whether the allegations should be deleted or can remain? Thatcher131 04:33, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Brief block[edit]

I have blocked Sliat 1981 for 6 hours for repeatedly wiping warnings about WP:NPA from his talk page. Maybe this will give him time to settle down and consider things calmly. HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 11:37, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Unless he's doing something in addition to this I'm not sure this is warranted since users are allowed to blank messages including warnings from their talk page, even though it is very strongly discourged. If he was ignoring them and continuing and/or being disruptive in addition to this then I support the block though. Pegasus1138Talk | Contribs | Email ---- 14:33, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
It's explicitly defined as a form of vandalism, and I'm pretty sure all vandalism is blockable. {{wr2}} agrees, and I would think all the templates at WP:TT can be relied upon. --Sam Blanning(talk) 15:04, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Actually users aren't allowed to blank warning messages from their talk pages. They can be blocked for that, although that alone doesn't solve anything ... blocking and protecting the talk page together is the only real solution. --Cyde Weys 17:13, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
As one of the users whose warnings were blanked, I can say he did so because he intended to ignore them, not because he'd read it and didn't need it anymore. fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 02:57, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

impersonator of a sysops? username block? or odd coincidence?[edit]

Relatively new user BlueGoose (talk · contribs) impersonator of admin Bluemoose? a one letter permutation seems awfully close to be a coincidence-- 19:46, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't think a block is needed. They aren't that close and confusion isn't likely. BrokenSegue 19:52, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
December 2005 isn't so new, and his talk page contains run-of-the-mill Wikipedia business. Doesn't seem odd to me. --kingboyk 19:54, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm inclined to AGF here. I didn't see anywhere in their edit history that they put forth that they were an admin, and they sign their posts as BlueGoose...while Bluemoose signs his as Martin. --Syrthiss 19:54, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

I just received's message on my talk page. Trust me, I have never had any intention to impersonate Bluemoose or any other user on Wikipedia. BlueGoose 05:02, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Tag-team vandalism at Wikipedia[edit]

The "Wikipedia is not an encyclopedia" vandal (or 3RR-evading edit-warrior, if you want to be polite, and three guesses who it is) is employing a new tactic: one sock makes the edit, then another sock blanks the page immediately after. An admin or user or Tawkerbot who reverts the blanking ends up reverting to the version that the vandal actually wants. I've sprotected the page, but naturally he has some aged sleepersocks in store. He's done this four times or so today. See the recent history of Wikipedia. Everyone please keep an eye on it. -- Curps 23:01, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Ok, I'll keep an eye out for it / try and figure out how to make Tawkerbot2 handle it better. I'm just going to indef block the tag team socks as its pretty obvious they're vandal socks -- Tawker 05:13, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Swatjester automated God-mode bot out of control![edit]

Check out this diff:

Where's the shut off button?!! --Battery electric factory flat truck Resident Super Expert Elite 00:13, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

  • See section below. --InShaneee 01:24, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Latest Zephram Stark sockpuppet[edit]

Battery electric factory flat truck Resident Super Expert Elite (talk · contribs). Using image previously deleted from Wikipedia (and subsequently uploaded to Wiki Commons by his sockpuppet Tim.) Reverts to versions by prev sockpupets on various articles. Personal attacks against me. etc, etc... --JW1805 (Talk) 00:29, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

"Smart" insult[edit]

User:Kuban kazak has “discovered” the following strategy to insult editors. On talk pages he enters most of his message in English, but then adds a quite insulting part in Russian (translation is provided by me according to a dictionary on
(1) козел = goat [5]
(2) дурень = dope [6],[7], [8]
(3) дебил = moron [9], [10]
(4) заноза = splinter [11]
(5)…that would be an insult to that svidomyi brain which you carry and that is a pity… = svidomyi is used by people like him to insult a particular Ukrainian political party; the rest in english [12]
The list above is based on his activity in the last 3 days. Previously he was insulting other users (who he knew were capable to understand Russian) in the similar way; an example:
(6) капризная баба = shrew [13]
In his recent conflict with another user [ref], they both were banned for being “gratuitiously impolite in the edit comments”. But it didn’t stop the Kuban kazak from sharing the great potential of the Russian language.
I put a few warnings on his talk page, but he removes it without explanation. [14], [15], [16].
All of this is worsened by edit wars (between him and me) on Oleksander Koshetz, Kryvyi Rih Metro Tram, and a few other pages.
Is there anything to fix the situation? --Anonymous 06:00, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Nice try. Well, they say Russian is an expressive language. I'm inclined to agree. (Finally my Russian skill came in useful, though I only knew козел XD )... gotta learn more Russian insults. Oh, 24 hours since he was a repeat offender. -- Миборовский U|T|C|M|E|Chugoku Banzai! 06:27, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

User and Christian wikis[edit]

This anonymous user has many times expressed opposition to being included on the Christian wikis article. He (or she) has now resorted to "stealth editing", marking deletion of the entry as a "typo". When this was reverted, chose to be even more dishonest, editing the link to to direct it to another site, altogether. I could not find a warning template to cover such fraud. Please look into the matter. Dogface 11:50, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, the user User:Motmajor has indulged in similar behavior on the Christian wikis page. Dogface 11:53, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not seeing this. (Well, I did, then I realised I was wrong. Trying too hard to assume good faith after Clive Bull, maybe.) This edit is the one with the 'typo' edit summary, and it is, in fact, correcting a typo. His edits look like good faith to me. I've just made myself look like a cretin, so please explain the disparity between what you've said he's done and what his edit history shows. I'm not au fait with the dispute but there does not seem to be a consensus for the inclusion of the link on Talk:Christian wikis. --Sam Blanning(talk) 12:13, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

The article originally describes as pro-Mormon and as Protestant anti-Mormon. Motmajor (talk · contribs) deletes but labels it a "typo". Dogface restores user: changes the url of the link to to .org.
It does not look like a widespread or long-term enough problem to qualify for a checkuser request at the present time (although it doesn't hurt to ask). If these two editors continue to appear to work together, or this spreads to other articles, or they start taking turns reverting to avoid a 3RR block, then it will be serious enough to warrant a checkuser or blocking. Right now it seems pretty minor and containable. Thatcher131 12:41, 13 April 2006 (UTC)


Jackinthestock (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) has made this edit to the Template:Unblock (see also the comment he left on Template talk:Unblock) which went unnoticed for over 3 hours. Suspecting a sockpuppet of some blocked user I'd like to turn some admin's attention to this. Thank you, Misza13 T C 13:01, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Overzealous bot?[edit]

Hi. I was just wondering if there's been a Wikipedia directive about changing all footnotes throughout the whole thing thing to reference note. User talk:Cydebot, clearly trying to be helpful and pro-active, has created a bot that's been making summary changes to that effect (at Doctor Strange, Daredevil (Marvel Comics) and elsewhere).

I left this message at User talk:Cydebot, to sum up my concern:

This seems like a pretty big summary change throughout Wikipedia, without any consensus that I can see here, at least. I'd like to get an Administrator opinion before your bot continues. Some editors prefer traditional footnotes, and unless there's a specific Wikipedia directive against them, I'm not sure it's good idea to make widespread changes that's just one person's personal preference.

Thanks. Hope my questions aren't out of line. -- Tenebrae 17:24, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

  • The current changes, replacing the outdated {{fn}} to {{ref}} does not seem to be changing the style or content, its just replacing an outdated template. However, this is clearly in preparation for converting all citations to the Cite.php format. While I personally like and use the Cite.php format (and would like to be able to request the bot' attention to a page I am editing) I do not think that a mass conversion to Cite.php would be at all good. As long as other methods of referencing are considered acceptable, I do not support mass conversion to any one particular method. Thatcher131 17:40, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Just a note, Cydebot is run manually, so if anything is going wrong I am sitting right here watching it and will take action. I'm also continuously monitoring my talk page, so if you have any immediate comments or concerns it's best to bring them up at my talk page (rather than ANI or Cydebot's talk page). And yes, Thatcher's summary is pretty accurate. Cydebot isn't changing {{ref}} or {{note}}, he's just changing all of the really old footnote/reference styles to be somewhat up-to-date. All of the conversions made to Cite.php using Ref converter are done strictly manually. I'm going to hold off on Cydebot's work on references for a bit and work on the block notifications instead, so there's plenty of time to comment on this issue. May I request that you discuss it on User talk:Cydebot though, as this board tends to run rather fast and a discussion of references doesn't exactly fit in amongst all of the vandalism reports :-P Cyde Weys 19:14, 13 April 2006 (UTC)


Recently promoted to Admin, Gator1 has deleted his user and talk pages after a series of harassment emails were sent by a range blocked editor who had been doing repeated vandalisms to the Phaistos Disc article. IP used a series of dynamic IP accounts and was POV pushing...possible lobbying attempt or similar in late March. Gator emailed me the following:

The vandal stalker with the blocked IP range of found out who I was and where I worked and sent a letter to the firm implying legal action and asking the firm if I blocked him as a member of the firm or my own and complaining about freedom of speech in a blatant attempt to frighten me and get me in trouble at work. It freaked them out and I had to look like an ass explaining myself. So I'm done dude, forget this.Please feel free to post this on a noticeboard and see if anyone has ideas. I don't want to have anything to so with this guy as I am afraid of what he'll do next.

Series of blocks: [17], [18], [19], [20], [21] and so on. Anyone have any suggestions?--MONGO 00:07, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Head to Canada? Actually there is no right to free speech on a privately owned website, so there is not much this person can do, at least legally.... But they can harass you, which is probably illegal anyway, so... Prodego talk 00:14, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, so...anything more helpful than suggesting an exodus?--MONGO 00:16, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Not really. Ask BDA? Anyone else have a more helpful suggestion? Prodego talk 00:19, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Email the ISP? NSLE (T+C) at 00:20 UTC (2006-04-08)
I was going to him (Abramson), but he's away for the entire month of April. Well, I just wanted folks to see this and to remember to be leery of giving out too much personal info and to see if aside from the six month range block on this IP range, if Wikipedia itself has any kind of recourse. Emailing the ISP is a fair idea.--MONGO 00:23, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Send emails in support of Gator1 to his company, telling what great a guy he has been, and we support his actions? --LV (Dark Mark) 00:24, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Sounds good. Blackcap (talk) 00:25, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I would definitely support that, but where does Gator work? (And how did the vandal find out?) --Sam Blanning(talk) 01:30, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
No, that sounds like a really terrible idea. Don't mess with the man's work unless he asks you to. His boss probably doesn't give a hoot about whether Gator is a good wikipedian. He might very well care that Gator does a lot of editing here during the day. So, keep your nose out of his work unless he asks for help. As to how he was identified, his user page specified his law specialty, his town, and his college. Probably not real hard to figure out from there with Google's help. Derex 07:17, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Look at BDA's contribs, he is not really away. Prodego talk 00:27, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Thank you...I sent him an email. Lord Voldemort has a decent suggestion too, but interestingly I have no idea where Gator works...I wonder how the vandal found out.--MONGO 00:32, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Fuckin hell, that's awful. Not much we can do, though. This is of course the reason to try to keep complete anonymity. -lethe talk + 00:33, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

We definitely should contact the ISP. They're supposed to deal with abuse complaints like this. And real-life stalking is definitely abuse. --Cyde Weys 00:55, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I've emailed Gator and linked him to this conversation, he may not be readin it now, but it will possibly be of help to him in ths matter, and I appreciate all the advice. If anyone has any other suggestions, they are welcome of course. This is not a situation I deal with much.--MONGO 00:58, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Hi. Really I am on a break (or at least trying to be - compare my editcount from this month to last if you don't believe me. Frankly, I think we should call Jimbo on this one. I'm in a similar situation to Gator1 - if someone were to contact my work about something that happened here, they might freak out as well. Jimbo, of course, is immune to such ministrations. I am not particularly familiar with cyberstalking statutes, although I know they exist. I'd advise Gator1 to get a copy of that letter (if he has not already got one) and peruse it for any claims that would amount to defamation. I do not know that there is any precedent to look to, but a Wikipedia admin might be considered a limited-purpose public figure for the purposes of defamation and invasion of privacy, meaning that someone making a public complaint about an admin's conduct as an admin would have to be shown to have actual malice for a cause of action to exist. If this person is making any untrue statement while advocating that Gator1 should lose his job or suffer some similar consequence, that might be enough to show actual malice. BD2412 T 01:51, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Probably not the wisest of comments at this time and in this context, to be frank. --kingboyk 04:10, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
BD2412 has contacted Jimbo on his page. I hope that Jimbo takes this personaly and gets involved. As the collectors of human knowlege, we can NOT let our users, especially ones who are protecting information to the highest degree, to be intimidated. Wikipedia is a community, and hopefully a community that will respond to this grave breach of privacy. --Mboverload 04:03, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Very well said. Concur wholeheartedly. --kingboyk 04:09, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I am hoping that someone is looking into how they figured out where Gator1 worked and who he was? KillerChihuahua?!? 02:04, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Hm, a quick look at the linked logs shows it's probably Rose-mary (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log), and the focus of the dispute is Phaistos Disc (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (I see also some edits to Proto-Ionians (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)). It might be interesting to watchlist these. --cesarb 02:16, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Based on the harassment, it might be wise to protect Gator1's user page and talk page. I suspect that stalker will try to add more messages. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 03:31, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

It has just been added to the protected against recreation list by an alert admin. --Mboverload 04:20, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Has anyone put this on the mailing list yet or told Jimbo? very disturbing situation, perhaps Jimbo or someone at the Foundation would be able to help Gator out here.--Alhutch 03:42, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I sent it to WikiEN, but it's still awaiting approval. —BorgHunter ubx (talk) 03:46, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Whoops, I just sent it to the mailing list too. Cabalstrike!! --Cyde Weys 03:47, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Why am I being moderated, as you appear not to be? I know I'm new there, but I'm a fricken sysop! :-P —BorgHunter ubx (talk) 03:52, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Just saw that BDA posted it on Jimbo's talk page too.--Alhutch 03:48, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Actually Gator's a lawyer himself, iirc. He's dropped enough information that a determined person could figure out where he works. Things like this make me think that the identity of the blocking admin needs to be hidden - instead of saying "you have been blocked by..." say "you have been blocked, click here to contact the blocking admin". A person would still be able to track down the block via the block log, but it makes it harder to draw the ire of the person blocked. Guettarda 03:52, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Ugh. This makes me sick. · Katefan0(scribble)/poll 03:56, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Yes it does, there have been several times over the last couple months that blocks I've done resulted in scary reactions via email. Not sure what's to be done but it makes me wonder, I feel for him. Rx StrangeLove 03:58, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

My thoughts are with Gator1, I hope nothing of further disruption occurs in his personal life. I would like to suggest two things, though. I recently had an incident similar to this whereas I posted personal information on Wikipedia and was threatened to have it removed immediately, thus did everything I could to eliminate it. In Gator1's case, I noticed two things that should be done to complete Gator's complete removal from Wikipedia, its mirror sites, and other archives, for his personal safety. (1)—I noticed his talk page archives are still intact, and believe they should be immediately removed given the original talk page is deleted. (2)—A major problem I had with my incident was Google's cached versions of the personal information I published. A quick review of Google search revealed that both Gator1's user page (which contains personal information) as well as his talk page and its archives are completely intact in their pre-deleted form, under the Cached versions of these pages. I recommend someone visit Google's "AUTOBOT" which would immediately remove the cached versions from their site, or wait a few days for their automatic removal..thought it may take up to 4 weeks. Sorry for the difficulties, Gator1, and I'm sorry you are leaving Wikipedia for good. Good luck and I hope you can perhaps make a new user name and visit. Cheers, . — CRAZY`(IN)`SANE 04:27, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

thanks for pointing this out, Happy Camper has just deleted the talk page archives and other subpages.--Alhutch 04:35, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm glad to be of any service I can, I completely understand the situation Gator1 faces, and only hope to aid in ensuring his personal info. be eradicated as much as possible. I have taken the liberty of visiting Google's cached-page removal site, where I am using a previously created account with Google to personally request the deletion of the cached versions of both Gator1's user page and talk page using their automated system. Last time I requested the removal of the article I created (User:1929Depression/R...) —censored for privacy—, it took about 2 days for complete eradication. I hope it's that soon for Gator's pages as well. — CRAZY`(IN)`SANE 04:49, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
thanks very much for your help with a bad situation.--Alhutch 04:52, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I suggest we go further and do a checkuser on those IPs and make sure there aren't any more sockpuppet accounts related to this incident editing on Wikipedia. --HappyCamper 04:55, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Good suggestion, HappyCamper, however I have run into an obstacle concerning the Google cache pages that I was planning to request for deletion from the Google archive. It is a problem that only a Wikipedia administrator can fix, and I was hoping that you or perhaps User:Alhutch could assist me. While I was at Google requesting the removal of Gator1's user page and his talk page, the automated system noted that User:Gator1 and User talk:Gator1 did not have the appropriate META tags required for deletion of the cached pages. With my previous experience on the matter, I am sure of the fact that the only way for a page to acquire these tags is either to delete the pages completely at Wikipedia, whereas the tags would be entered into the HTML automatically, or to contact Jimbo Wales and request that he alter the HTML codec himself (he being the only person with access to this). Since the first option is easier, I suggest an administrator do so now so I can complete my request for the cached page removal. You'll note that both User:Gator1 and User talk:Gator1 have this template : {{deletedmiscpage}} rather than the pages just being removed, as traditional, so I suggest they just be removed. Thanks to the administrator who does this, I'm sure Gator1 would appreciate it as having your personal info. accessible on Google is less than desirable. — CRAZY`(IN)`SANE 05:02, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
The only real option is to completely blank the pages. Technically, a deleted page cannot be protected, and I do not want to remove the protection if the stalker is going to come back. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 05:07, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I thought that they were protected anyway? Regardless, this is a difficult tradeoff, but I would be inclined to help Gator1 have is stuff removed from the Google cache first. If another administrator wants to restore that single edit, (or simply add another tag again), please feel free to do so. However, I think a better alternative is to keep very vigilant for a little bit, while hopefully in 2 days the Google cache clears out. After 48 hours, we can replace those tags. At least, doing so will give this google cache clearing a chance. We can accomodate this I think. --HappyCamper 05:15, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Agree with HappyCamper on this one, I successfully processed the requests through Google to remove the cached pages immediately, and they should be gone within a couple of days. I think we owe it to Gator1 to play it safe and keep these pages deleted until the Google cached versions are eradicated. — CRAZY`(IN)`SANE 05:18, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Protection is automatically removed once you delete the pages. However, it does prevent anon IPs from starting the pages. The problem is that an established user can still leave a message on Gator1's talk page (or even the user page). So the best way now to deal with this issue is that we still can put the pages on our watchlists. 10qwerty 05:21, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I wish Gator1 were here to comment on the best course of action, but personally I think it's best to assess the Google caches first, because that's where a stalker could pick up on his personal information. Restoring the User:Gator1 and User talk:Gator1 pages would result in Google's BOTS to ignore the requests to remove the cached pages, thus they (including their prominence as the top search results when someone searches for "Gator1") would continue to be available through Google for up to 4 weeks. — CRAZY`(IN)`SANE 05:28, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Right now, I have the pages on my watchlist. If I do see someone leave a msg, I will delete it. But I have not option to protect it because it is in fact delete. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 05:44, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I don't know how Google handles this request and so take your (CrazyInSane's) word for it. Or anyway I try to. But I don't fully follow the logic. More broadly, any statement here that it would be better for X not to happen will I presume be avidly read by our friend allegedly in the vicinity of Luxembourg, who will then do his or her best to make X happen. Further, I of course know nothing of the content of any email (and don't want to know it), but I did do a little looking around in the user and talk page history and found very little information there about Gator. I learned one thing about Gator that I (perhaps naively) find entirely innocuous, and I saw considerable evidence of the user or users of several IP numbers being obnoxious or worse. I am not versed in law, but I wonder whether it might actually help if these obnoxious messages were, if not in plain sight, at least accessible via the history tab. But I defer to others, and particularly to the wishes of Gator. -- Hoary 06:13, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

RIPE Whois database query results - allocated to some people in Luxembourg. NSLE (T+C) at 05:10 UTC (2006-04-08)

Gator disclosed more to me in his email than I can share (my decision, not his) but the situation is not good apparently. Gator did tell me he thought that IP was originating from Belgium or Luxembourg. I do believe he has definitely left the project, and expressed his great disappointment that he has had to do so. I have directed him to this section and hope he is watching and reading all the excellent contributions everyone has posted. On his behalf, I want to wish all of you a very fond thank you.--MONGO 05:46, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I think we all understand his difficult decision taken, personally I'd like to wish him the best. NSLE (T+C) at 05:48 UTC (2006-04-08)
This situation must be taken very seriously as the project is doomed if excellent editors can just be driven out by people who obviously have no interest in building an encyclopedia. When I was a sys admin (in the "real" world) I had a normal user account and did all my work requiring special access from a separate "system manager" account. For me it was primarily so I had an unpriviliged account I could use to check if I'd messed up but this harrassment of Gator1 does argue for a division of the admin duties from normal editing. Maybe an admin forum for discussing blocks etc could be created which would not be visible to anons and new editors? Whatever something must be done to stop this happening again and I can only hope that Gator1 can find a way of returning safely. Hope he's reading this as I'm sure he needs a boost at the moment. Gilraen of Dorthonion AKA SophiaTalkTCF 07:27, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm really sorry to read all this, and hope to send Gator1 a supportive e-mail later today. AnnH 07:29, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Gator is one of an increasing number of admins who've been threatened, stalked, or abused on Wikipedia, on other websites, and in real life, because of their admin actions. I agree witih Sophia that it's time to do something about it, but it's hard to know what. A few people tried to set up an admin-only board a few months ago (where non-admins could read it, but not post to it), but it was quickly shot down as unwiki-like, so a board that non-admins can't even see likely wouldn't work, although there's an admin-only IRC channel I believe (or there was: I've never used it, so I don't know whether it still exists). Even with such a board in place, users would still get to know who blocked them, and we're often called to account and have to post here about blocks anyway. I can offer no solutions, except that the lesson for people who want to become admins in future is to make sure that your screen name is not connected in any way to your real-life identity. SlimVirgin (talk) 07:48, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
In my opinion after I took a quick glance at the deleted history, Gator unfortunately gave away too much information on his user page – enough information that a determined person with enough time could easily look up on Google and other online directories. That is another thing future admins have to watch out for. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 07:56, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I think this is just ridiculous, what is wrong with a person when they find it neccesary to email some poor guy's boss and complain. However, I'm not sure that other people emailing his boss in support of Gator would be the best course of action. The only way I think it would be beneficial would be if the person was influential enough that Gator's boss would recognize the editor's real-life work.- Moshe Constantine Hassan Al-Silverburg | Talk 07:55, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

What an awful situation. This suggestion may be totally out of line - if it is, please forgive me - but I infer from what Mongo has suggested that some of the clues to Gator!'s identity may be found in article talk / other user talk spaces. If Mongo (or another informed editor) knows where these clues are to be found, could they be expunged to prevent anyone else who may think that it would be amusing to 'copycat stalk' Gator1? Colonel Tom 08:57, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm concerned that reopening to delete areas that may have personal information may offset the google cache as described above...admittedly, I am completely ignorant of these issue. I have watched Gator almost since he first started editing, and I don't recall him making any comments aside from what he does and in what State he does it. I never remember him posting his Email, home address phone number or using his actual name...maybe he accidentally responded to an Email from this vandal and that gave up his real name, which I have gotten from him when he Emails me. I set up a "bogus" Email account for Wikipedia, that does not give my actual name, and the Email is through Yahoo...I highly recommend others do this as well, through whatever service they use. I don't want to alarm people but just trying to emphasize the importance of privacy if indeed you work a potentially sensitive career or have a particular need for animity. Gator did ask me to block this editor before...I just retrieved a lengthy email from him dated 3/28/06 and am scanning it to see if posting it here is any help.--MONGO 09:10, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Looking over the email, it is actually a long comment sent to Gator by another editor in regards to this IP vandal. Gator wanted my feedback on whther I thought his six month blocks were fair, and sent me the Email he had received from another Wikipedian. Apparently, Gator has run afoul of a particularily resourceful and hostile Usenet veteran with a nack for privacy invasion. I may ask the original emailer if he minds if I forward the information to Jimbo or the Foundation...because this means there is actually not one but two people who may have been forced out from editing due to threats in real life by this vandal.--MONGO 09:26, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
Same situation as posted in early March, prior to Gator's involvement...[22]--MONGO 09:58, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
One way may be to advise new editors to keep their real ID's private and warn/delete personal information on sight. Maybe a wiki project on editor anonymity is needed to see what the community thinks. Also WP:BOLD could be modified to make it clear that whilst you need to be bold with article information and editing you should not be so with revealing your true identity. We need to warn users when they start as most breaches of privacy are likely to happen when they are new and keen and by the time they are established and want to go for admin status the damage will already be done. The e-mail idea by MONGO is a good one and should be recommended too. Most kids are now taught about internet security/anonymity at school (at least in the UK) but anyone out of their teens is unlikely to have learned about this and may not realise the potential problems. Gilraen of Dorthonion AKA SophiaTalkTCF 11:18, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
This will mean totally re-writing Wikipedia:Username, which currently says "The best username is typically either your real name, or a longstanding Internet pen name." Since that page is policy, it can't be changed lightly, but will require a good deal of consensus. Angr (talkcontribs) 11:27, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I've thought that that should be changed for a long time, and would certainly support a change to something that emphasized the risk of making your real name public on a project like this (or the internet in general, really). As an aside to Sophia, I would say WP:BOLD doesn't really need to be amended, as it's entirely about updating pages, and not boldness just all around the place. Blackcap (talk) 15:42, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

As one of the editors of Phaistos disc, which was routinely disrupted by User:Rose-mary until Gator1 imposed a six-month block (for threatening to contact the employers of another editor), I would like to express my thanks. I hope he will see this. I hope this can be resolved. Septentrionalis 15:39, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Anything that encourages people to make their real identities visible in a project that attracts strong POV's must be reconsidered. As for WP:BOLD I'm aware it's about articles but thinking like a newbie user it could give the wrong impression. Gilraen of Dorthonion AKA SophiaTalkTCF 15:57, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
  • Latest email from Gator...he doesn't want to mention it at his workplace again, hoping they will put it behind them:

I really don't want to bring it up with them again. If I can get through this week without being fired, I'm happy. I am watching the AN/I page and I did give you the IP range, to do with as the community feels is appropriate. To clarify: this nutcase sent an actual snail mail letter directly to the firm, not an e-mail. Which only made it worse I think. It stated that a made up committee in Luxembourg had nominated me for some sarcastic award for blocking the IP range, that the committee was going to go to court and make a stink about it in the papers and wanted to know if I was acting as an associate of the firm or by myself (which freaked them out the most). Anyway, I'll lt you know what my job does with me. I'd just like to know how he got my name. Thanks, G

--MONGO 18:34, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I had a similar situation where a blocked user threatened to contact my employer, because I was occasionally editing from work without logging in (work doesn't allow cookies). I have since stopped editing from work. User:Zoe|(talk) 22:16, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I am very sorry to read all this. The stalker, as you will see on the Talk:Phaistos archives, has long plagued Usenet as "grapheus" and has actually managed to sue his nemesis there (although he didn't press charges in the end). Gator has blocked him on WP for making threats of real-life harassment to another editor. I think that yes, now would be the time to contact the guy's ISP and ask them to terminate the guy's account. Tell them that their entire range is blocked from editing en-wiki because of that one bad egg. The stalker has shown extreme resilience on Usenet, pursuing his single cause with manic determination for years. Gator was brave to apply the block single-handedly, but I think the lesson from this should not be to hide your identity because there are mad people. It may mean you should be extra careful when editing on company time, but I have a hard time imagining a reason why Gator's employer should be concerned about some guy from Luxemburgh complaining about him having performed an administrative action on a private website where he is authorized to perform such actions. I do hope you will be fine, Gator; in the meantime, if Jimbo can be bothered, he could lift Gator's block and re-instate it himself, so Gator's name will not continue to show up as the blocking admin and there will be no doubt whatsoever about the wiki-wide agreement on blocking the stalker. dab () 00:28, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

I wonder whether we should create a list of admins willing to take on blocks of extra-difficult people such as this guy. The list could comprise admins who know there's nothing to link their Wikipedia identities to their real-life ones, or who don't care if there is. In that way, other admins who are worried about being tracked down, or who've already been threatened, could discreetly contact one of the admins on the list and ask him/her to take over. There are drawbacks to this (because it creates a list of perceived tough and not-so-tough admins), but it might still be better than the current situation. SlimVirgin (talk) 00:53, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
That seems like a very good idea. I'd been trying to think what might or should be our answer to this problem, and such a list of Wikipedia:Admins willing to handle off-wiki disruptive editors seems like a good answer. JesseW, the juggling janitor 01:33, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Might it not be better to have someone at the Foundation issue blocks in these cases? (There's a fella called Danny I believe?) I don't think any admin should have to risk "real word" strife on behalf of Wikipedia for whom we serve, lest it not be forgotten, as volunteers. --kingboyk 01:39, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Directing all the difficult blocks to Danny would mean he'd end up being targeted, and he's identifiable. A group of completely anonymous admins, on the other hand, would be more or less immune. SlimVirgin (talk) 01:43, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Two posts from User: have been removed, you'll have to check the history if you want to read them. I'm not sure if it's somebody trying to be helpful or (more probably) the "complainant". In the process of removing edit #2 I accidentally reverted SlimVirgin (who removed edit #1), sorry about that, I think I fixed it :) --kingboyk 00:57, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

MyNomenclature (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) originally posted here claiming to have done it (pretty incoherently) and was reverted and blocked. They then left this message, and this; looks like the same person as just posted here. They seem to be trolling; note that MyNomenclature was banned as a sockpuppet. Shimgray | talk | 01:04, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
The above could be User:Amorrow aka User:Pinktulip, given that he links to Amorrow's webpage. He's the one who's been harassing a number of female Wikipedians, on and off-site. SlimVirgin (talk) 01:11, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Sean's conclusion was that it was Amorrow, and "MyNomenclature" is beyond reasonable doubt the same person as the IPs - but it's bizzare they changed their line of argument. Clearly trolling, rather than the actual person responsible, in my opinion... Shimgray | talk | 01:13, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
It certainly does not read like Rose-mary (?grapheus); and the content (that if Gator1 needs advice he should look to a senior attorney licensed in his own state) is not unreasonable. Septentrionalis 16:26, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Trolling aside, I feel they fail to distinguish between Gator's career as an attorney, and his actions on Wikipedia as an administrator and as a member of the Mediation Committee. These actions are paralegal, but not judicial. Wikipedia is not a court of law. I agree that Gator should look to his colleagues for legal advice; however, what we discuss here concerns actions on Wikipedia. It should not be construed as legal advice, but may still be helpful. Grigory Deepdelver of BrockenboringTalkTCF 01:36, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

"MyNomenclature" and, who left message on my page and Sean's are Amorrow for sure. I don't think User: is Amorrow. But I don't know that it matters. FloNight talk 01:46, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

I've blocked IP range for trolling MONGO regarding the Gator1 case. NSLE (T+C) at 01:44 UTC (2006-04-09)

Oh. I just sprotected MONGO's pages, I might as well unprotect them, then, I guess. Bishonen | talk 01:47, 9 April 2006 (UTC).
I blocked the IP range three months, but a WHOIS returns a San Francisco (!) ISP (Abuse contact abuse(at)swbell(dot)net). NSLE (T+C) at 01:48 UTC (2006-04-09)
Are you sure that the /24 is the right netblock? The earlier stuff on MONGO's page was from 3 different subnets; 71.141.1, .30, and .224; the proper size would be a /16 netblock ... and, clearly, this is someone hitting DHCP'ed address space, and that's a mighty big block to block. Georgewilliamherbert 05:47, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Was told in IRC I'd blocked a bigger range than needed, but I'd rather err on the safe side (and honestly, I didn't really take a look at the exact IPs). I defer judgment of a smaller range/shorter block to another admin. NSLE (T+C)(seen this?) at 05:57 UTC (2006-04-09)
The /24 will be ineffective against any of the 3 addresses they used so far, and against 255/256 of the possible ones he'd come up with in the future out of the same sized parent netblock, unfortunately. What's the policy on DHCPed addresses within large netblocks? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?. Georgewilliamherbert 06:07, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
NLSE: Please just remove the block on becaues it is utterly pointless. It is part of a giant, complex American pool of IP addresses that are near-randomly distributed on a moment-to-moment basis by SBC. Perhaps in your Asian hierarchy, with its emphasis on conformity and hierarchy, you can do a meaningful block on a /24, but here in America, where freedom is the basis of our success, your block just makes you looks stupid. Here, if you do not believe me, take a look at this page: . And let me tell you: for the hundred of thousands of wealthy, bill-paying SBC DSL customers, when they reboot their router, they get a vastly different IP address from a vast and fragmented range. Let me also note that SFNC21 (San Francisco-21) and PLTN13 (Pleasanton-13) are, in many ways, merged into one huge pool for San Francisco Bay area SBC customers. Your block just shows your inexperience with how the Internet works. For you own sake, please just remove your ignorant block. It means, for all practical purposes, zero effect on your target, and will be almost 100% "collateral damage". -- Sillymemine 15:55, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
You do know that attempting to relate the concepts of "conformity and hierarchy" and "freedom" in a society to a technical problem "just makes you look stupid", right? Johnleemk | Talk 15:59, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
Yes, my child-Lee, but you see NSLE did not "read the directions" before he took his hate-based actions from his tiny fake-democracy one-party island and he did it wrong:

01:43, 9 April 2006, NSLE (Talk) blocked (contribs) (expires 01:43, 9 July 2006) (apologies to legitimate users affected, due to an ongoing harassment/legal threats problem this IP range is blocked.)

  • Thanks everybody...lots of good comments on this matter and I thank those that helped watch my talk page. I think I will sign on as a "tough" problem, and I don't care if my identity is known. Does the foundation need to take care of contacting the ISP of this harassing editor? I am not familiar with this.--MONGO 05:44, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Legal advice[edit]

I'm also a lawyer and I'm willing to do some legal research on this incident, if U.S. law applies. (I don't have competence in any other country.) It would help enormously to know which jurisdiction's law applies. (Some of the points BDA raised flow from the First Amendment, and are standard throughout the U.S., but the incident also raises some issues as to which state laws probably vary somewhat.) Perhaps someone could email me privately with (1) the state in which Gator's workplace is located (I probably have no use for any more precise information); and, if known, the states in which (2) the sender of the threatening letter and (3) the headquarters of that person's ISP are located. I'm not an admin but I'll treat any such information sent to me as a confidential attorney-client communication. I realize that, even if Gator has a cause of action against the malefactor, Gator might choose not to pursue it, for fear of causing more trouble at his workplace. JamesMLane t c 07:40, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Looks like you've already got that covered. --HappyCamper 10:51, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Rose-mary returns[edit]

The Gator1 vandal is editing anonymously as User:; in this edit on Talk:Phaistos Disc decipherment claims. Note that this is one of the IP's Rose-mary has already used, as the contribution history for the IP will show. The edit itself is only persistent argument against consensus; but I would rather not edit with this person. Septentrionalis 18:14, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia: Admins willing to make difficult blocks[edit]

I've created the page I mentioned above and I've added my own name. SlimVirgin (talk) 02:02, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

I'd add mine except I get far more of them already than I can deal with ;-) Perhaps we could tag it with WP:BADCOP and WP:WORSECOP - David Gerard 21:28, 10 April 2006 (UTC)


This user should have his moderator access removed for blocking me for no valid reason. The block occured immediately after User:Gnetwerker vandalzed my edits to the Steve Jobs article, Gnetwerker may be one of this user's sockpuppets User:RememberOctober29 11:45 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Uh this was actually posted by User:LotsOfPProblems, for whatever that's worth.--W.marsh 22:59, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Who got blocked indefinitely by someone else, if memory serves. Ah well. Mackensen (talk) 02:04, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Flood of new accounts at Talk:Clive Bull[edit]

Ok, I tried to resolve this without resorting to the cabal, but I honestly have no idea what to do with this one. Clive Bull (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) is an LBC DJ whose article is the subject of a revert war over a change made by Minglex. Syrthiss and I believe the change makes the article more encyclopaedic, a host of IPs and new accounts claim the wording isn't as good and have been reverting it wholesale for weeks, resulting in a period of full protection which achieved nothing. Some of you might remember the sockpuppetry and impersonation at the article of fellow LBC DJ Iain Lee - the sockpuppets took the opposing side.

I recently took it to RFC, and the response so far has been a flood of new accounts which object to the change. The thing is, they claim to all be from the same office, thus heading off any point in a sockpuppet check. I'd like some more eyes on this as I'm at a loss myself. --Sam Blanning(talk) 10:03, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

2nded. Before the situation was alleviated because while all the vandals were blocked by page protection they started posting to other articles the entire contents of Iain Lee and suggesting people continue editing I started tossing around warnings and indef blocked any socks that I could find when they didn't heed the warnings. They aren't being as disruptive this time around, but they're coming close (continued pleas on WP:RFPP to lock the article at "their" version...posting on ANI that I blocked poor DebbieatCNBC just for editing). --Syrthiss 02:55, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

User Freakofnurture[edit]

Massive extracts from user talk:Jonathan 7 and user talk:Freakofnurture snipped…

So my point is that Freakofnurture has had some sort of agenda against me from the very beginning, and has accused myself of all sorts of hurtful stuff such as sockpuppetry for Daniel Brandt and has constantly deleted my talk page. He is abusing his admin powers and it is greatly annoying. Please do something about this. 10:14, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Please do not feed the trolls. HTH HAND —Phil | Talk 10:35, 13 April 2006 (UTC)after edit conflict
Very interesting. --Sam Blanning(talk) 10:31, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I knew nothing about that. Mine is an IP which registers to the Yorkshire/Humberside region. Any other guy with a hate against Wikipedia could have done it. It certainly doesn't register to my personal computer. I absolutely do not believe that the violating of Godwin's Law is a good way to put oneself across, in fact it just decreases the reliability of an arguement. It is not me. Can we please continue this discussion? 21:44, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Guy, what part of "open proxy" in his explanation was unclear? Hint: the location of the server building is irrelevent in identifying the actual location of the user. --Calton | Talk 01:17, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
...And yet Daniel Brandt was able to identify the location of Brian Chase in the Seigenthaler autobiography controversy, so i should believe that is in fact NOT irrelevent. Read my posts again, my case is made quite clear. Jonathan_7 17:24, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Morton devonshire internal spamming/"vote" stacking[edit]

Morton devonshire recommended delete on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bush Crimes Commission (2nd nomination) and has since used an identical message (not labeled as a mass mailing) to call on more than 50 users (perhaps more since this post) most of whom appear to have had no prior involvement with the article to join the discussion, most of them (about 3/5) members of Category:Members of the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy what links to the AFDMorton Devonshire contribs. Indicating what his his intent was in notifying these specific users, after one of the people he called on recommended keep he wrote "Dang man, I guessed wrong. Cheers anyway!" diff. I see this as problematic. Шизомби 16:25, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

  • Exactly, proof that, if we want to keep wikipedia NPOV we must delete all divisive userboxes except the ones that help paranoid people freep AFD votes, they're OK-- 21:07, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Vote Stacking[edit]

The following comments are in my opinion, unwarranted and border on a personal attack on vote to delete was not any more hostile than a number of other editors that also voted there.--MONGO 02:00, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I apologize to MONGO for having placed this notice here without having contacted him first. I apologize for some of the wording I used below. I still feel the behavior was objectionable, but I understand from the consensus below that it was not something that should have been posted here at all. Шизомби 03:14, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

MONGO was one of those called on by Morton devonshire in his POV push to delete an articlediff; I don't think an admin should participate in such an action. Additionally, MONGO's recommendation does not articulate a valid reason for deletion: "Delete So a few Bush haters and terminated employees got together and surprise." diff One could possibly infer that his reasoning is that it is nn, but a closing admin could just as easily ignore his recommendation for lacking a reason. While one might understand a POV statement given as a "reason" by a mere user and simply discount it, for an admin I think there should be higher standards. Шизомби 17:04, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

And your point is? If the closing admin thinks the reason isn't valid s/he can discount it (but it sounds like a valid "nn/article is political points scoring" reason to me). I presume, also, that MONGO didn't ask to be spammed. In any event I don't think this is a matter which needs review here. --kingboyk 17:45, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
(This thread was blanked by Notasoxpuppet (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log), their first and only contribution). --kingboyk 17:38, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Seems pretty clear to me that he's saying it's non-notable. I'm sure he would expand his reasoning if you asked him to. As you say yourself, a closing admin could just as easily ignore his recommendation for lacking a reason as that admin could infer that MONGO meant it was non-notable, so if anything your argument seems to be that his vote commentary isn't persuasive enough. If the closing admin wanted more information about what MONGO meant, they too could ask on his talk page. If MONGO deleted the page in question out of the blue and left that as a rationale, yeah, I'd say that would be inappropriate. But this is simply an AfD vote. I see nothing here out of the ordinary or against policy whatsoever—I've seen votes far more terse than that on AfD—and aside for your implicit request that MONGO elaborate on his position, I don't really understand the grievance you're claiming. JDoorjam Talk 17:46, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I'll grant you both that it isn't an especially egregious action, but nonetheless feel the conduct was unbecoming. Again, the objections I had were: (1) that MONGO should have not participated in the POV push to delete, or if he felt he really had to then should have noted that he'd been asked to participate (as Jersey Devil noted), and (2) that an admin should articulate valid reasons to delete, rather than leaving their reason open to interpretation & that their reason should not be expressed in such a derogatory POV way - particularly when there is a POV push on the AFD. As I said, perhaps that sort of behavior can pass for the average user, but I think admins should meet higher standards. Шизомби 18:03, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Per kingboyk, I dont see how this is relevant to this board. MONGO is not acting in any administrative function on that afd, and while he is an administrator, administrators are just regular editors with a few extra buttons...and I've seen plenty of regular editors make far more snarky comments. --Syrthiss 18:12, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
If it's really the case that "administrators are just regular editors with a few extra buttons" and they can behave just as badly as a regular editor, then I apologize for cluttering the board up with this incident, especially since the other one I posted above deserved more attention than this one. Шизомби 18:22, 13 April 2006 (UTC) pleasant that Шизомби never once bothered to ask my rationale on my talk page...but if anyone pushes a POV, it is when someone adorns their userpage with the comment that they oppose Goeroge W Bush and supports his impeachment...I stand by my comments in the Afd. Your complaint is without merit.--MONGO 20:04, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

The elephant in the room Isn't anyone at all curious about why a new editor's first contribution would be to blank the complaint? Thatcher131 18:22, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

  • If I had to venture a guess, I'd think it's our old pal the AN:I Fake Incident Reporter. --InShaneee 18:28, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
    • Whoever it is, they're indefblocked. --Syrthiss 18:29, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
  • May be worthy of some further investigation. I'd also point out that I have in the past received a complaint about User:Morton devonshire's talk and user page, but I didn't take it any further as he seemed to be the sort who would get a kick out of an admin going over there and giving him a talking to. (Something of a troll, in other words). --kingboyk 20:04, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
  • odd, I was looking into this issue when I ran across Merecat (talk · contribs), one of the users contacted in the above spam campaign, is now spamming the exact same talk pages asking people to intervene in a request for comment, I think someone needs to make a definative statement regarding the practice of talk page spam, or it's going to really start to spread if people start to get the idea that it's a legit method for garthering support for your cause-- 23:33, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
It would be more helpful if you logged into your account when posting.Thatcher131 04:38, 14 April 2006 (UTC)


The IP really needs a longterm block. It continues to blank and vandalize pages, despite many warnings. Maybe something can be done about this. --Mets501talk 17:35, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

  • It's a dynamic AOL IP. Since any AOL user could use it at any time, it wouldn't stop that vandal (or, more accurately, vandals), and would more than likely disrupt the editing of some other, unrelated user. --InShaneee 18:43, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

That's not AOL, it's a school IP, I don't see any goodfaith edits, block it --Jaranda wat's sup 22:49, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Let's block for 3 months to get us out of the school year. Maybe they'll have a better watch over their herd in the fall? Johntex\talk 01:11, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

User:Ceha and my user page[edit]

can some disciplinary actions be taken against user:Ceha he has made personal attacks upon me for my personal beliefs, on my userpage and elsewhere. [my talk page]

--Jadger 18:35, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

I can understand that you can be upset for these comments, but I would not go as far as label them personal attacks. You can read WP:NPA for more details. Comments in your talk page that you don't like, you can simply remove them. If someone defaces your user page (not your talk page) that is considered vandalism and you can report it at WP:AIV. ≈ jossi ≈ t@ 18:55, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Of course, if stalking was occuring, that would be a different matter. Ian13/talk 20:58, 13 April 2006 (UTC)


The User:Zoraida removed an afd tag whilst a discussion on deletion of the article was going on. [23] Then violated WP:POINT by listing up Democratic Underground for deletion (See Here} for the stated reason

  • "For childish behavior in requesting that the pages of competing forums Progressive Independent be deleted from Wikipedia. This all started with a comment we posted on DU's page adding that another forum had been created by ex-DUers. Our comment didn't attack or smear DU and yet they took great offense to it. Already DU won't allow mention of competing forums on their board. Should Wikipedia tolerate their fascism here? Zoraida 13:06, 13 April 2006 (UTC)" [24].

The user has also failed to maintain civility making such comments as

  • "This afd is a total joke so we thought we'd give you one also. How dare you try to intimidate people here!
    Not surprisingly Democratic Underground can't tolerate mention of alternatives to it fascist forum. Wikipedia is an open source for information. You can prevent discussion of alternatives on your forum but not here.
    Kindly get off your imaginary soapbox. I'm afraid you'll break your neck.
    And don't you dare delete my here comment again. Zoraida 11:53, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Hostile edit summaries:

  • DU fascism again. Can't handle criticism or competition. PI readded so that readers know of the alternatives. You do not own this entry to use as propaganda.) [26]

We don't need these kinds of "forum rivalries" disrupting the afd process.--Jersey Devil 23:02, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Zephram Stark sockpuppet[edit]


XLR8TION (talk · contribs) is persistently reinserting unsourced material in the articles Quentin Elias and Junior Vasquez. We've received a complaint specifically about this content, so I'm insisting that this needs to be properly sourced or stay out. I've tried to point XLR8TION in the direction of the appropriate policies, but he seems to be blowing this off. As I'm about to use a third revert today, I need people to assist in enforcing the sourcing requirement. --Michael Snow 04:24, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

  • Why is the talk page empty? One would think that the appropriate first place to discuss such issues. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 04:39, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

XLR8TION has reverted now, with edit summaries that clearly indicate this is original research. Can somebody reverse that, please? --Michael Snow 05:21, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree that the edit summary on QE is self-incriminating: he actually called someone to confirm QE was employed there??? I reverted for you, because this smacks strongly of self-promotion, but this discussion really should take place on the relevant Talk pages. Frankly, this guy looks nn and AfD looks like a plan to me. Robert A.West (Talk) 05:29, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Waitaminute ... it looks like my revert is gone and there is one by User:jpgordon instead. But I saved, and saw the save work. Wathappun...? Robert A.West (Talk) 05:35, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
I think when two of make identical reverts, only one of them shows up on the log. It's just to confuse us and make us think more than we need to. Anyway, the editor has been 3RR'd; perhaps someone other than Michael might stick his nose in and explain the subtleties of WP:NOR to him. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 05:39, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
I've left notes on both of the talk pages about this. I'll need people to keep on eye on it when he gets back from the block, though. I'm afraid I wouldn't support an AfD in this case. From what I can tell, his French boy-band was significant enough, see fr:Alliage (groupe). --Michael Snow 05:42, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

I took the responsibility to explain. User_talk:XLR8TION#No_Original_Research. I hope I did a good job. Robert A.West (Talk) 06:54, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Threats on several wikipedians[edit]

Regarding [27] and [28]:

I love Revenge I along with User:,Axl Reisdorff,User:68..96.23.7. We will get revenge on Evan Robidoux,Drini,Samuel Blanning,Christopher Knight,and Master of Puppets.


P.S. Preston create new name on saturday during the day make DN1.I'll be on the computer at my Grandmas I'll create DN3. By the way I logged in as PMP. April 14, 2006.

Also [29]:

Hey Preston what's up when do we attack?
Now. Create a username. I'll only be here for afew minutes!PMP 20:57, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

So, I've indef blocked PMP.

Also, quoting Essjay regarding

Checkuser reveals this account has been used for making death threats via logged-in accounts. As there is no indication of use by anyone but the vandal, I have blocked for a month, and will consider a longer block if the problem continues after the month expires. Essjay Talk • Contact 00:49, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Given that no good edits come from that ip, I've indef blocked it

Regarding [30] [31] [32]

Now, those ips and users usually claim to be sorry apologize: [33]. Do not fall into it, check the blocklogs, those have a long history.

Due to [34]:

We formed the DN group I will never tell anyone what it means

so it's suggested to indef block any accounts of the form DN* who engage in vandalism or threats. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Drini (talkcontribs)

Indefinite block of Rgulerdem[edit]

I have gone ahead and indefinitely blocked Rgulerdem (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) following unanimous consensus of all admins involved. Rgulerdem has violated many Wikipedia policies again and again and has been blocked by an unprecedented twelve separate admins, yet he shows no signs of having learned anything. He was recently given a last and final warning and showed no signs of repentence or intending to improve. I therefore have blocked him indefinitely at the behest of the community. --Cyde Weys 07:11, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Side note, see also WP:AN#Extensive internal spamming? NSLE (T+C)(seen this?) at 07:13 UTC (2006-04-10)
As the latest blocking admin (before the "final warning"), I have no problem with this block. Rgulerdem has demonstrated he is impermeable to reason with his recent comments and actions. Dmcdevit·t 07:14, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Does this guy edit anything except the defunct, rejected, and utterly ridiculous Wikipedia:Wikiethics page? Why not just ban him from editing that? --Ryan Delaney talk 07:17, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I dug through his contributions for a while looking for positive article contributions, and came up blank on the most recent 1000, so I checked his userpage, which led me to some highly POV editing. No objection here, we need to get rid of more people who are on Wikipedia just to play political games. --Sam Blanning(talk) 08:15, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I have no issue with this block, he was a thorn in everyone's side and served no legitimate purpose here. Pegasus1138Talk | Contribs | Email ---- 19:50, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Looks good. · Katefan0(scribble)/poll 13:33, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Interiot's tool analysis. I will post more once I've reviewed this. — Phil Welch (t) (c) 20:52, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Few article edits, none after February. Extensive talk page spamming re. "Wikiethics". Few contributions not related to Wikiethics. — Phil Welch (t) (c) 20:57, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Why did we ban this guy right away, but it took us forever to ban User:Copperchair? — Phil Welch (t) (c) 20:59, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't understand the indef block. Can someone please exlain what he did to justify this? I looked through his most recent contributions and I don't see anything that bad. Also, I don't think the talk_page/project_page edit count is a problem. He has several hundred article and article_talk edits. He seems to have limited himself to editing a proposed project over the last month, but I don't see there is anything wrong with that. I don't know of any policy that says that one must edit in all spaces simultaneously. Johntex\talk 00:38, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

His article talk edits have mostly been edit warring over the poll about the Muhammad cartoons, likewise his article edits. No positive contributions. As Sam said above,

I dug through his contributions for a while looking for positive article contributions, and came up blank on the most recent 1000, so I checked his userpage, which led me to some highly POV editing. No objection here, we need to get rid of more people who are on Wikipedia just to play political games. --Sam Blanning(talk) 08:15, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

NSLE (T+C)(seen this?) at 00:44 UTC (2006-04-14)
Why did Jason Gastrich get only one year then? Couldn't we give this chap a shorter ban (no more than a year) and then make it indef if and only if he is disruptive upon his return? --kingboyk 00:47, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
He's been disruptive since his start (went straight into remving the image at the Muhammad cartoons page). Look at his block log. 3RR (countless times), WP:POINT, civility, sockpuppetry, mass spam... NSLE (T+C)(seen this?) at 00:49 UTC (2006-04-14)
I agree his first edits were edit warring at Muhammad cartoons, but his behaviour seems to have gotten much better since then. He has been working on a proposed policy that he feels would be an improvement to Wikipedia. I don't see any diff have been provided to any behaviour that would warrant an indef block. Why not make it 6 or 12 months and put him on a short leash if he comes back? Johntex\talk 01:07, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Fully support this indef. ban. User:Rgulerdem had numerous opportunities to follow the council of many editors and admins (with a good number of them being independent of anything User:Rgulerdem was working on) to assume good faith and be more cooperative with fellow editors and he repeatedly failed to heed such council. On nearly every occasion where unbiased admins curtailed his edit warring and incivility User:Rgulerdem was unrepentant and in fact exhibited disrespect towards them. Does the Wikipedia community need the involvement of such repetitively disruptive and unrepentant editors? Netscott 01:19, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

No, I defintely don't think we do, but some diffs to justify exactly what he should be indef blocked would be appreciated. I see the justification for the previous, shorter blocks, but I don't see a smoking gun that led to an indef block. Johntex\talk 01:28, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
I'd say the smoking gun was the (ac)cumulation of his previous blocks, plus continued trolling and incivility towards every admin who blocked him (even without prior contact). You've read his talkpage, it's obvious he's attacking NicholasT and Dmcdevit. NSLE (T+C)(seen this?) at 01:33 UTC (2006-04-14)
Maybe I'm tired tonight, but I see no attacks by him on his user page at all. I see things like "Dear User:NicholasTurnbull, I am saddened with your actions....", "I am so sorry about misinformation, it was not you...", it all looks like reasonable discussion to me. Can you point to something specific he said that would constitute a personal attack? Johntex\talk 01:46, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
To Dmc: "How blind you are" (in the 3RR block section), in the final warning section "If you check my block log carefully you will see a dominant figure there" is trolling me, "As I said, I think your warning reflects some sincerety but to become unbiased" would suggest he thinks Nick is biased ("become unbiased"), is "Please be more careful in regard to having discretionary actions: "Users that exhaust the community's patience" is not acceptable here" not trolling Nick? "Please be more careful when using you previliges" would suggest admin abuse when no such abuse happened, and believe me, if I looked into his archives I could find many more, on Kelly Martin, Superm401 etc. NSLE (T+C)(seen this?) at 02:02 UTC (2006-04-14)
Thank you for providing specifics. I don't think any of those constitute a personal attack. I would say that "How blind are you" does violate WP:CIVIL, but that would be the wortst of them. I think we also have to note that this is his own user talk page. Traditionally, we have given more latitude to people on their own talk page. Please don't delve deep into his contributions for more examples. I am only interested in whether he did anything to support the final block. I accept that all the short term blocks were justified, and I accept as a corollary to that that his past actions have been punished. What did he do wrong after the so-called "final warning"? Johntex\talk 02:06, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

User:Cyde read User:Rgulerdem's final comment and no doubt observed the unrepentant and disrespectful tone that Rgulerdem took towards User:NicholasTurnbull and rightly made a determination that Rgulerdem was not "getting it" and did not heed the "final warning". Netscott 02:24, 14 April 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the diff. His statement does not seem to be a perosnal attack or a violation of WP:CIVIL. He says:

By the way, your title does not look good you may think to change it. It is irrelevant to call this as a final warning. I couldn't find any relevant note in the page you refered me too. Please be more careful in regard to having discretionary actions: "Users that exhaust the community's patience" is not acceptable here. I hope you do not replace your petience with that of the community. Thanks again..

It seems he is within his rights to question whether it is within policy to issue such a "final warning". I have unprotected his user page so that he may explain any positive contributions he has made to the project and so that we may have the full facts in considering whether this indef block should stand as is or be reduced. Please see the informaiton he has posted at User talk:Rgulerdem. Johntex\talk 19:34, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
There does seem to be a language problem here as well, some of his comments that seem combatative against admins, probably on closer reading were not intended to be . I am surprised that the 1 week block was replaced by an indefinite block. If we were to re-admit him as an editor, it could be subject to good behaviour. The Cartoon controversy has, presumably, died down. Rich Farmbrough 11:20 24 April 2006 (UTC).

User:R.D.H. (Ghost In The Machine)[edit]

This guy has demonstrated that he has no interest in following wikipedia policy or copyright laws. Uses dishonest and misleading copyright tags, would someone ban this guy already? [35] [36] [37] [38] [39] [40] (just a very small sample of this guys work). —Preceding unsigned comment added by MattKingston (talkcontribs) 01:18, 13 April 2006

Um, wow. That sure looks bad. --Ryan Delaney talk 02:06, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I left a note. Jkelly 02:06, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
more of the personal attacks [41] and antisocial behaviour [42] [43]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by MattKingston (talkcontribs)
RDH is a little too laissez-faire, and MattKingston is a little too copyright paranoid. I've left them both talkpage messages, and strongly recommend a nice cup of tea and a sit down. Stifle (talk) 12:52, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Objecting to someone forging copyright tags and removing {{unverified}} templates from images that still don't have sources doesn't qualify as "copyright paranoid" in my opinion. --Ryan Delaney talk 18:07, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Stifle, Ryan Delaney is quite right. Dismissing our basic insistence that images be sourced as "copyright paranoia" is unhelpfully flippant. It's fine to ask that we be WP:CIVIL when we remind people that we need this information, but it isn't okay to encourage people to revert image-cleanup procedures. Jkelly 18:16, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
There's been previous discussion about this user and a similar issue here, and I, unfortunately, have doubts that this issue will be settled quietly, either. The earlier conversation quickly derailed into one side begging for exceptions to clear-cut Wikimedia copyright policy. In short, fair use images were removed from the R.D.H.'s page after two months of ignored warnings by at least five separate users, Ashibaka (neutrally, to prevent edit warring) protected R.D.H.'s user page after fair use images were removed, Giano and