Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive907

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Saadkhan12345 is vandalizing articles and abusing accounts[edit]

This is going nowhere fast. Incident was report, incident was actioned. Prolonged discussion is neither productive nor constructive. Further discussion should take place on your talk pages. Blackmane (talk) 22:34, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Based on his profiles User:Saadkhan12345 is a Pakistani living in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. He was blocked indefinitely as User:UsmanullahPK and subsequently created multiple accounts for edit-war and other disruption. [1] He has no idea about US laws, he thinks a Pakistani must become a U.S. citizen in order to be considered a Pakistani American. He's unnecessarily following me around and reverting my edits under different names and his Riyadh IP. [2], [3], [4], [5] I don't think SPI is needed, the evidence is crystal clear.--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 10:56, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Vandalized my User page. Thinks a Pakistani criminal caught in Southasia and now in prison in US is Paksitani-American. For e.g. this guy Khalid Sheikh Mohammed who isn't even in the US (Cuba-Guantanomo Bay] qualifies to be a Pakistani-American according to Krzyhorse22 Here. Saadkhan12345 (talk) 12:02, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
KSM is a separate issue, it is being discussed at Talk:Pakistani Americans. You are following me and reverting my edits, and you're abusing multiple accounts.--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 12:11, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
(Non-administrator comment) @Saadkhan12345: that's not vandalism, that's tagging you as a suspected sockpuppet. @Krzyhorse22: yeah it passes the duck test for me, but if an admin doesn't jump on it soon, I would recommend an SPI -- samtar whisper 11:58, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
When the outcome is clear SPI is unnecessary, plus those SPI admins are too busy. This guy has no respect for Wiki or other editors.--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 12:11, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Could've done that on the talk page. Not on my Userpage. Saadkhan12345 (talk) 12:09, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Krzyhorse22 Please refrain from making personal attacks. Saadkhan12345 (talk) 12:19, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
I've blocked as a clear DUCK. GiantSnowman 12:47, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
GiantSnowman Excuse me, but that is how you become a Pakistani American, unless you are born in the U.S. of Pakistani descent and have dual citizenship, or identify as Pakistani American through your parents. Many people live in the United States but without citizenship do not qualify as "Americans." KSM is NOT an American. What evidence is there that Saadkhan12345 is this other user? Simply because he pointed out the obvious? There are 1.5 million Pakistanis in KSA. МандичкаYO 😜 13:04, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Like I said, I agree with Samtar that DUCK is met here. Similar personal backgrounds, similar editing area and pattern, similar name, similar disruption. GiantSnowman 13:10, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
How are their names similar? I think Khan is the one of the most common family names in the world after Li. Half the people I know from Pakistan/Muslim India are named Khan: [6] Additionally 1) this account has been around more than a year without any blocks 2) according to complaints in the original SPI, this user has a noticeably poor command of English. Looking at Saadkhan's edits, his English is excellent. See comment above, and edit summaries like, "They are not Americans citizens. A convicted felon cannot be given U.S nationality." So what evidence is there that this is the same user? OP's edits are completely wrong and the only disruptive thing I see here. МандичкаYO 😜 13:17, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
@Wikimandia: This report has nothing to do with KSM or Pakistani Americans, it's to do with a user abusing multiple accounts. You may have an opinion on Pakistani Americans, but that discussion is not for here, please see Talk:Pakistani Americans. As for evidence, I believe all the behavioral evidence in the original report above would, if brought to SPI, be closed with the same outcome - a block. Cheers -- samtar whisper 13:21, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Once again I ask, what is the evidence? None of the diffs above prove anything except OP is putting in wrong information. You have a sock with notoriously terrible English. You have another user with perfect English. Do you not see the issue here? This user is not being disruptive so there is no urgent need for a block. Open an SPI. МандичкаYO 😜 13:34, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
I'm disengaging from this now, but I will say that the behavioral evidence suggests a possibility of the account being a sock, enough for an administrator to make a block. I trust the judgement of GiantSnowman, as does a lot of other editors -- samtar whisper 13:41, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
You've presented no evidence. I've presented evidence it is unlikely they are the same user. That's nice you trust GiantSnowman, but that is why we have SPI, so admins don't block people based on their hunches. МандичкаYO 😜 13:44, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
@Wikimandia, his present location; his Pakistani background; his general behavior; his editing of the article Lower Dir District in Pakistan; and the languages he claimed to speak, among other things, made it 100% match.--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 13:46, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
There are more than 1.5 million Pakistanis in Saudi Arabia. It's not like he's a Pakistani in Belize. Of course a Pakistani would edit Lower Dir District. Of course a Pashtun would have the last name Khan - it's a nearly universal surname for the Pashtun. I don't see what languages he claims to speak. On the other hand, I have a serious problem with this edit you made vandalizing his page three days ago and saying "socking is unIslamic"[7] You don't get to label people socks, especially before it's ever been brought to ANI/SPI. МандичкаYO 😜 13:53, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Why would you have a problem with me telling Muslim editors that socking is un-Islamic? It's based on Islam's teachings. Any disruptive act is un-Islamic but doing this in Wikipedia where the whole world relies on is a more serious misconduct than doing this in social sites like Facebook for example. I know about the whole world, no need to remind of petty stuff like how many Pakistanis live in what country. I didn't vandalize his page, it was just to warn him or wake him up. Any editor can put suspected sock tag on someone, if there is reasonable or probative evidence.--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 14:01, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
I have a problem with you vandalizing someone's page and throwing in a condescending comment about how, even though you've presented no compelling evidence that this is a sock, that "socking is wrong" according to their religion. It's completely repulsive. Yes you did vandalize his page - you replaced his entire userpage with a template saying he's a sock! Because he's reverting you when you're putting in absurd information in articles! It's not your place to "wake him up" by screwing with his page. If you truly believed he's a sock then report him. МандичкаYO 😜 14:16, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
You're defending a disruptive sock maker. There are countless IDs with Saadkhanxxx and they either made few edits or none. I don't care what is repulsive to you, this is an international project so please get used to people from everywhere and every religion. As you can see nobody other than the disruptive sock maker and you are having a problem with me. I did not remove anything from his or anyone's page, please stop accusing me.--Krzyhorse22 (talk) 16:22, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Meat puppetry[edit]

Continued at Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Expertseo. Mkdwtalk 00:16, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Adarsh Liberal (2nd nomination).

This article was nominated for AFD by Katyaan. After Katyaan's delete vote was stroked off by Dharmadhyaksha another editor Expertseo, who didn't edit for full one year came out of nowwhere and voted delete. His previous edit was on 17 December 2014 on Katyaan's talk page.

Expertsio had a total of 77 edits in wikipedia when he voted "delete". With 77 edits, he connects with Katyaan in 12 articles with variety subjects as BatchMaster Software, Raebareli, Devi Ahilya Vishwavidyalaya, Jitu Patwari, Vyapam scam. --The Avengers 11:41, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

Just to note, the edit from Expertseo to Katyaan's page is a barnstar being awarded. Why do they almost always award each other barnstars.. Passes the duck test for me, any reason why you think this isn't just normal socking? I'd be inclined to SPI okay, maybe not - good couple of years between them -- samtar whisper 11:51, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User Rckhupmang[edit]

I just reported this at AIV, where it was deleted with the advice to take it here. Longterm creation and re-creation of articles on non notable subjects, ignoring numerous warnings, especially in relation to removal of speedy templates. Apparent COI and promotional intent, with an eponymous article created several times. No effort to communicate with other editors, and I'm wondering if it's also a WP:COMPETENCE issue, perhaps foreign language. The disruptions far outweigh constructive intent here. 2601:188:0:ABE6:65F5:930C:B0B2:CD63 (talk) 05:13, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

It looks like Rck has been edit warring to remove your speedy deletion tag at United Zo Organization Kentucky FC. I count four removals, but some of them are bizarre, such as blanking the entire page and then restoring almost the entirety of the page except the speedy deletion tag. I don't really know what to say about that except that you may be right about competence. And on Pau Sian Khual, he's removed the speedy tag twice already: first time, second time. He also removed a BLPPROD after adding a YouTube video in this edit on Kham En Thang. Now, I'm the first to say that YouTube can be a reliable source, but I'm not so sure this counts. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 06:03, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Larry Stroman and Tony Harris (artist) articles[edit]

As a precautionary measure, I wanted to advise about two articles (Larry Stroman and Tony Harris (artist)) which contained possible violations of Wikipedia:Libel. I removed the statements from Stroman here and Harris here.

As I posted at Talk:Larry Stroman#Lack of verification by citation and Wikipedia:Libel, the citation given for the allegation against Stroman made no specific mention of him, therefore it does not support the statement.

The Harris article used a loaded legal term but supplied no citation at all.

I don't believe Administrator action is needed at this time but I wanted to be proactive in case the material is re-added to either article.

Mtminchi08 (talk) 07:24, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

History merge needed[edit]

Can someone perform a history merge on Royalty (Chris Brown album) and Draft:Royalty (Chris Brown album) (2nd version) please? I wasn't sure where to request such a merge, thanks. Azealia911 talk 09:26, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

See WP:RFHM aka Wikipedia:Requests for history merge. Sometimes it's actually as simple as that. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 10:39, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Problem with editor over religious edits[edit]

Hi all - I'm having problems with an editor over categories. I'm engaged in a substantial task of putting articles on American religious leaders into state-specific categories. All has gone well up until a few days ago, when Elizium23 (talk · contribs) contacted me to complain that I was putting Roman Catholic bishops into categories for bishops, rather than making individual categories for Roman Catholic bishops by diocese, then making parent categories for Roman Catholic bishops, and then putting those categories in the (grandparent) Bishops categories.

While I see this as useful, it would slow down the work I'm doing, and I feel that categorisation simply as bishops is better for Wikipedia than having them totally uncategorised. After all, if Elizium23 feels that they should be in these subcategories, (as) it is now easier for him to find and add those categories himself, and (b) perhaps he should have already added those categories. Elizium23's messages on my user talk page have been confrontational and threatening - he accused me of laziness (despite the fact that I have been categorising several hundred articles during this task, and he could easily have added any extra categories he wanted himself), and threatened to revert the work I have been doing. This is something which he has begun to do, despite being warned of the disruptiveness of this silliness.

As an admin, I can't get personally involved in fixing this mess, so I'd like to ask some neutral admins to have a look at it if possible. Thanks, Grutness...wha? 23:57, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

If anything, having bishops in state-specific categories should make it easier for Elizium23 to further subdivide them. Reverting instead of improving, that is lazy. Not justified IMO.-- Elmidae 07:48, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
How about instead of two people making separate passes through thousands of articles, one editor makes one pass and does it right the first time? Or while making his pass and met with objections, that editor stops to discuss what is best. Or even, the editor with mass changes in mind proposes it publicly first, and hammers out WP:CONSENSUS on the best course of action. Is that too much to ask? Elizium23 (talk) 18:21, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Many hands make light work. Keri (talk) 18:44, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Also, Elizium23, you yourself admitted that there are unresolved issues with some bishop categorisation. I don't know enough about RC church structure to know when those issues apply. You do. Rather than have me incorrectly categorise while trying to deal with a larger and more overarching task, why don't you do that part of the task? As far as WP:CON is concerned, all I am doing is extending work already started by other editors - state categories for religious leaders already existed for about half a dozen states and no-one had been complaining about them. As such, similar categories for the remaining states seemed logical and uncontroversial. Given that bishops are religious leaders, putting them in such categories makes perfect sense, and if they are uncategorised as bishops then leaving them uncategorised as bishops is not doing anything that WP:CON is needed for, since no change vis a vis their bishop categorisation was being made at all. As regards "separate passes through thousands of articles", I'm the only one making a pass through thousands of articles - you would simply be categorising the several dozen uncategorised bishop articles to add diocese labels where necessary - a much smaller task, and one which can almost certainly be automated. Grutness...wha? 00:09, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Support Elizium23, but not most of what he is saying. We need a consenus on this important topic before the categorization continues. Let us consult the religious portal. W oWiTmOvEs 11:26, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
I had raised this issue at WT:CATHOLIC, but Grutness decided to shop here too. I am curious, Grutness, what remedies and sanctions against me did you expect to be levied from this board when you took a very small content dispute here? Elizium23 (talk) 17:16, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
@Elizium23: You are making incorrect accusations. Grutness is not forum shopping. Grutness opened the entry here in response to your behavior on his talkpage and your behavior in reverting his edits adding categories where none previously existed. Grutness only asked for a second opinion from an uninvolved administrator, not any sanctions. You created the talkpage entry at WT:Catholic, and primarily talked about Grutness's behavior, not the disputed content. Grutness only replied briefly to what you had written regarding his behavior, and referred the behavior discussion here. The tiny bit of discussion at at project Catholicism did focus on the content dispute, and did not conflict with the discussion regarding user behavior reported here. --Zfish118 talk 21:14, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

I propose closing this discussion of user behavior as fruitless. No behavior was truly serious, although perhaps caustic. I would propose resuming the content/categorization discussion at the WT:CATHOLIC instead. --Zfish118 talk 21:33, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

IP-jumping editor with an anti-Kurdish bias[edit]

This is a rewritten version of something I wrote last night at the talk page of @JzG:. He suggested that I take it to ANI. I wasn't sure if the regulars here need to be spoon-fed diffs or if, on the contrary, I would be met with TLDR comments if I wrote any longer. Please take a look and point out if there is anything you feel is insufficiently clear.

There is a succession of Swiss-based IPs (most starting with 81.62) that have been on a reference removal and prodding spree and has made other edits with what appears to be an anti-Kurdish and anti-Yazidi bias.

The IP user is somebody familiar with Wikipedia terminology and notability policy (although quite willing to overlook the blatant notability of a topic if it would get in the way of getting it deleted, as with Khana Qubadi, an 18th-century Kurdish poet, or Taufiq Wahby, a philologist who was also a member of cabinet and senator in Iraq). The user is also familiar with templates.[8][9].

Some of the references and links removed have indeed been dead, as claimed in the edit comments, but some of these appear actually to be online versions of printed sources, such as this one (the journal article can probably still be located even if the link happens to be dead). This removed links to articles in the online edition of the Encyclopaedia Iranica. While the EI appears to have changed the article URLs, they can be found through a search of the website (e.g. [10]). In general, substitutes for these links are less likely to be found once they are hidden away in the article history and their removal is likely to prejudice the admin dealing with the page at the end of the prod period.

I suspect that Lrednuas Senoroc (talk · contribs) (28 Nov.-) may be the same user. This user has started an article on Kurdish terrorism (recently at AfD) and nominated Kurdish mythology for deletion. He also edited Khana Qubadi, previously prodded by 81.62.90.64 (talk · contribs), just after I deprodded the page.

All in all, I find it difficult to "AGF" in this case. I have deprodded a few articles. @PanchoS:, who has noticed the same pattern (as he pointed out at User talk:JzG#Kurdish terrorism), has deprodded a large number as claiming notability and at least needing a proper discussion.

I will notify Lrednuas Senoroc (talk · contribs) but will ignore the talk pages of the IPs, as they don't appear to have been re-used once the user has rotated to a new one. --Hegvald (talk) 11:16, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

The user Hegvald starts this with a personal attack even in the section title, generally a sign of somebody that has no facts and that the discussion is emotional.
Hegvald complains that I attempted to do some much needed quality control and cleanup after I spotted a walled garden of non-notable articles, all created by the same user. The user has created a walled garden of hundreds of articles on non-notable subjects. These include bloggers, translators, "writers" whose output consist of a few nationalist pamphlets, whose only reference is a token article written by the subject himself about himself! If these articles would have been in a less obscure area, they would have been deleted within 5 minutes! And all the links I removed with the edit summary "dead links" were dead links, not just "some" (the rest were not in accordance with the WP:EL policy). To be able to also edit at 'Articles for Deletion', I had to create an user account. I was not only doing some work in much needed quality control, as Hegvald noticed, but also expanding articles (Kurdish women, kurds in germany,...) and creating articles (on the Kurd Banaz Mahmod).
The real issue, I suspect, is that he didn't like that I wrote articles on Banaz Mahmod and about Du'a Khalil Aswad. The same user who spammed wikipedia with this walled garden of non notable articles is the same user who repeatedly deleted every mention of the Murder of Du'a Khalil Aswad and other victims in the kurdish women article. That is the real issue, these same users who spam wikipedia would like to bury every memory of these victims in wikipedia, exactly like they buried the poor Yazidi woman Du'a Khalil Aswad, together with a dead dog after she was stoned and after she was dragged trough the streets! Because I created the article about the Kurd Banaz Mahmod and wrote about the Yazidi Du'a Khalil Aswad, I must be anti-Kurdish and anti-Yazidi, out of a perverse logic that certain aspects of certain communities should not be written about, and this user who spammed wikipedia, and censors every mention of these Kurdish and Yazidi victims, is of course just a bona fide Kurdish nationalist. --Lrednuas Senoroc (talk) 12:39, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Who is the user you are talking about? Are you talking about @Vekoler: who appears to have started several of the articles you are trying to have deleted? You should have informed him of the fact that you were nominating them for deletion, but you never did. In either case, I don't see anything wrong in starting many articles in a particular topic area of one's interest, in this case Kurdish writers. Other Wikipedia users create huge numbers of articles on professional wrestlers or footballers. Regrettably, far fewer people around here are able and willing to write about Kurdish literature and scholarship.
As for the dead links, they were indeed dead, but many referred to sources that may have been located in other ways. That was the case with both Encyclopaedia Iranica articles mentioned by me above. The articles are still live; they just changed the URLs. Some other may have been found at archive.org, but only when one knows what to look for. And as I said, some were printed publications, such as articles in the International Journal of Kurdish Studies. In those cases, having a link is nice, but it is perfectly fine if they can be located in print in a library. --Hegvald (talk) 13:48, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Oops, I forgot the issue of honour killings. No, there is nothing wrong with mentioning this (although it should probably be mentioned here and in passing that it is common among many other populations in the Near East and elsewhere).
What struck me was that in all your expanding of articles such as Kurds in Germany, Kurds in Sweden, Kurdish women, this was the only thing you were interested in writing about.[11][12][13] Surely there must be other aspects of these topics worthy of interest and expansion? --Hegvald (talk) 13:58, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Yes, it is Vekoler. You may believe that everything merits a wikipedia article, but it is not the consensus on wikipedia, otherwise we wouldn't have the notability policy and the AFD and PROD processes. Clearly, many of these articles do not meet the notability policy and wouldn't have survived that long in less obscure areas of wikipedia.
Many of the articles in question were written back in 2006, so it is natural that some of the web links may be broken or dead. As for notability, I agree with you in general, but unfortunately some editors have taken upon themselves to decide the notability of someone like Abdulla Pashew who is one of the most well known contemporary Kurdish poets. Just because someone is not familiar with English/Turkish/Spanish literature, he/she can not claim that T.S. Eliot, Orhan Pamuk or Pablo Neruda are not notable. I will add the necessary references and links, but please before jumping to conclusions, try to ask the poor editor who has spent so much time on these articles. Just a short message on the talk page would be enough. Thanks.Vekoler (talk) 20:53, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
About the dead links, where is the policy how to deal with them? If I tag the dead links, or if they are already tagged, how long does one need to wait until they can be removed? What about dead links in the External links section? Should they not be cleaned up? Many of these articles are BLP articles, and everything unsourced or sourced to dead links in BLP articles should be removed immediately and without discussion. --Lrednuas Senoroc (talk) 14:52, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
In the future, I will rather tag the dead links when they are used for reference. Except when it goes against WP:BLP or WP:USI, the BLP policy says all contentious information should be removed immediately if it is unsourced. --Lrednuas Senoroc (talk) 15:15, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Your familiarity with WP:TLAs makes it plain that you are not actually a new user. What was your previous account, please? Guy (Help!) 15:26, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Srednuas Lenoroc might be entirely innocent here, but someone should investigate whether there is any relationship (perhaps an attempt at imitation by Lrednuas Senoroc)? Cordless Larry (talk) 15:39, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
I am not Sredunas and there is already a discussion on his talkpage. To figure out TLAs one does not need to have a registered account on the english wikipedia. In any case, to protect their privacy, editors who have edited while logged out are never required to disclose their usernames (see also clean start). --Lrednuas Senoroc (talk) 15:57, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Anyone that would like to associate my contribution to WP somehow the work of "Lrednuas Senoroc" has "idiot on the mind". I am not, have never been and have no intention of getting involved in this matter. I have had a pleasant enough experience on WP so far and would wish for it to continue so if you are the person that has orchestrated this diversion then do at least me the favor and bugger off. I would like to bring up that I have no talk page. According to well expressed comments in WP, no one "owns" a talk page yet when there are changes to that talk page the person having that user name is notified of such changes. So please never mention comments made on "that" page as "my talkpage". The use of the word "my" is misleading and wrong. The use of the word "that" would be proper use and grammar.Srednuas Lenoroc (talk) 23:56, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

It's pretty obvious to me that Lrednuas Senoroc is an attempt at an impersonation account of Srednuas Lenoroc, since Srednuas Lenoroc is Coronel (Colonel?) Saunders spelled backwards, while Lrednuas Senoroc is nonsense. Blackmane (talk) 03:14, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Srednuas Lenoroc, I was not trying to associate your contributions with those of Lrednuas Senoroc. I was suggesting that Lrednuas Senoroc's username was an attempt to impersonate you. It seems that an admin agrees and has blocked the account. Cordless Larry (talk) 18:45, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Oh, and it is perfectly acceptable for editors to refer to "your" user talk page. See Wikipedia:User pages#Terminology and page locations on this. "Your" in this sense does not imply ownership, as that page makes clear, but means associated with you. Cordless Larry (talk) 19:02, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Then I hope that this discussion can be limited to this or another more appropriate page as notifying me about someone having a similar username is not a concern of mine and as maliciousness goes, I am not aware enough about WP as to where it is appropriate or that I wish to become involved in that discussion. I do not need to be notified of user being investigated even on an informal level merely because of their username. My record of contributions is readily available for review. My IP address can also be traced. I see absolutely no reason why I needed to be contacted in this matter. As my grandmother says in the most concise translation, why with two when one will do. I am not into investigating people; that is not the role have I taken at WP--I leave that to others.Srednuas Lenoroc (talk) 21:44, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

I linked to your account to demonstrate the similarity. You can always ignore this page if the issue being discussed does not concern you and you have not been summoned here. Cordless Larry (talk) 23:02, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Another Swiss IP User:81.62.246.169 has been editing disruptively, repeatedly reapplying PROD tags and applying BLP PRODS to articles that are referenced. I've reported him for disruptive editing. We'll see. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 23:03, 13 December 2015 (UTC)

Well "User:Cordless Larry". your suggested strategy about avoiding these interaction seems to be for naught as in an other action to which I have been issued a notification has someone claiming that someone has said that they are me and that the person claiming that this statement has been made is saying my account should be blocked. What am I suppose to do, just sit by and let people speak supposedly on my behalf? And then be subject to what actions they decide to follow although the fundamentally some things are not correct?Srednuas Lenoroc (talk) 02:48, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

No one's issued you any "notification" on your user talk page, far as I can see. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 02:57, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

AFD Backlog[edit]

Maybe this is just me, but the backlog at WP:AFD is as long as I have ever seen it; there are plenty of discussions with clear consensus that have not been closed yet, and a number that could bear closure in any case because they have been relisted far too many times. More eyes are needed, admins and non-admins both. Vanamonde93 (talk) 07:25, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

@Vanamonde93 how can a non admin help? Regards FreeatlastChitchat (talk) 07:38, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
FreeatlastChitchat; non-admins can help by a) expressing considered opinions in AFD discussions where consensus is still unclear, so that consensus may be reached sooner, and b) if they are experienced enough, by performing non-admin closures in situations where there is clear consensus for an outcome that does not require admin action (ie clear keep, merge, or redirect outcomes). Regards, Vanamonde93 (talk) 07:43, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
This should do the trick.
I'll take some time to run through some of these— I'm awake. For everyone else, a loud wake-up call might be in order. I, JethroBT drop me a line 08:33, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
Don't worry, someone will come round and set them all to relist for another seven days, instead of getting off the fence. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 09:37, 29 November 2015 (UTC)
For admins who want to help out, WP:OAFD is a good place to start. A word of warning, there seem to be a larger than usual number of contested and messy ones in there at the moment, which might explain the backlog. Lankiveil (speak to me) 12:37, 29 November 2015 (UTC).

I am coming my friend. Do not despair. A modicum of effort should make it appear like there is no backlog. W oWiTmOvEs 12:09, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

The wp:AfD industry is taking over Wikipedia. We all put way too much effort into it and content building has become secondary. Just my $.02. Ottawahitech (talk) 05:18, 3 December 2015 (UTC)please ping me

User:In ictu oculi continually spreading lies/harassing - please make him stop[edit]

OP has agreed to drop the hatchet, if not bury it, so it seems we're all done here. - The Bushranger One ping only 14:29, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

This has been going on for years and years now, and it seems to always get ignored or brushed aside. This is not another oops slip-up by In Ictu oculi. I've asked him so many times over those years to stop the lies my fingers are getting tired from typing it. A difference of opinion is one thing, we don't agree on diacritics. Now there are several conversations going on about whether wikipedia should ignore a person's own wishes and sources on how to spell their name in English. And in those conversations, once again, In ictu oculi is making personal attacks and spreading the same lies once again. I did not create WP:TENNISNAMES, I did not even !vote on creating that essay and told the editor I could not support something that didn't take into account all sourcing. In ictu oculi is closer to owning that essay as he edited it. Yet over and over again he attacks me on it with these continual fabrications: HERE and HERE. There are dozens of these off-topic attacks on me. I don't care that he disagrees with me on following a biographical person's own wishes, that's wikipedia. I do care about his continually, year after year, attacking me with fabricated nonsense. Please make him stop this ridiculous baloney and stick to the topics at hand, because I've had it with his own warped version of non-truth. Fyunck(click) (talk) 21:49, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Here is the type of thing I had to deal with even 3 years ago when this guy tried to round up everyone he knew to attack me. It will never end with this guy and I want it stopped this time. I will keep reporting it until I get satisfaction because I don't want his attacks and lies to get swept under another rug. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:59, 24 November 2015 (UTC)

I can see you are frustrated, Fyunck(click), but I don't believe those diffs warrant a block. I have posted a warning on his talk page (User talk:In ictu oculi#November 2015). If this disagreement between the two of you has been going on for years over a specific set of articles, I encourage you to utilize dispute resolution. Liz Read! Talk! 14:28, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
I'm beyond pissed. But I don't want a block. That's always the last thing I want. I want it retracted and I want it to not happen again. After years and years of this same baloney from him... always leaving the topic at hand to attack me, to slide in innuendos, to link me to the page he worked on, to bring up things from years ago every chance he gets... I'm fed up. I try to turn the other check with this fabricator, but he won't let me. He's been banned from my talk page for years, Administrators have told me to try and steer clear of his antics and they'll blow over. Well they never seem to blow over. Don't block...make him STOP! I want nothing to do with him, ever, as he is 100% untrustworthy. Fyunck(click) (talk) 20:00, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
What about an interaction ban? clpo13(talk) 20:11, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
In looking at it, that could work. If an RM or RfC happens, it looks like we can both comment as long as we don't comment with each other or bring the other one up in any way. I assume if one of us starts the RM/RfC the other could !vote? I could go for that. Anything to stop this dude. And effectively, I do that already unless it's to defend myself when he gets way out of line. And it's better than a dispute resolution mentioned above because I will never ever assume good faith or trust this editor in any way. That boat has long since sailed. Fyunck(click) (talk) 00:36, 25 November 2015 (UTC)
I know it affects me also, but how do we get the ball rolling on that so I don't have to deal with this anymore? Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:33, 25 November 2015 (UTC)

─────────────────────────Obviously it's a holiday in the US so I expect a slow down in implementing, but I want to make sure this stays fresh. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:57, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

AFAIK, you can simply propose it yourself and editors watching this page/section will chime in supporting or opposing the proposal. Then an admin will decide whether to implement the proposal based on community consensus. clpo13(talk) 19:38, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
User:Drmies, hi. I would but experience shows that old users, ones who are familiar with the Tennis/diacritics tension of 2011-2012 are not going to take this seriously, and new users, ones who are not familiar with practice in our en.wp BLP article corpus (pick at random Category:Latvian scientists, Category:Czech writers etc.) take time to get up to speed. You see the wall of text above. Any attempt to answer it will generate an even longer wall of text. But since you request, I will do.
1. Firstly I was quite happy with admin User:Liz already having dealt with it, and I thanked Liz already. I shouldn't have said "bullshit" as linked, my bad. I said sorry, I'd already edited it down myself anyway.
2. Re the headline charge of "spreading lies/harassing" the "lie" bit appears to be that I said this:

Marin Čilić -> Marin Cilic) Oppose per WP:TENNISNAMES and WP:TENNISNAMES2 both of which were indirectly initiated by this editor, and had an overwhelming rejection of the idea that blogs and Twitter are reliable sources for "tennis names", or for Croatian, etc. orthography.

But there's a reason I said "indirectly". Yes look at WP:TENNISNAMES and you'll see Fyunck post 11 times on that RFC (similar WP:TENNISNAMES2) but Fyunck did not draft the tennisnames rule; that was done by another anti-diacritics editor MakeSense64 who last edited in August 2012. However the move to remove diacritics from tennis players (not just East European, but French and Spanish and even American tennisnames) was kicked off 3 July 2011 by Fyunck etc. and edits following. I'm not a tennis editor, I just spotted one of the early RMs to remove diacritics and was not impressed with some of the sentiments expressed. I looked through categories (those Category:Latvian scientists, Category:Czech writers etc.) and found that en.wp was 99% consistently using full Unicode fonts, as was tennis.
3. Re the second headline charge "continually ..harassing". It has been two years since the last attempt at an RM to restore Ana IvanovicAna Ivanović (for those not up to speed this is the one straightforward en.wp BLP title out of line with normal en.wp BLP titling practice) so "continually" is not accurate, and putting in a RM to revert a move is not usually judged "harassing". As regards the removal of -ć from article text rather than titles, that is here ANI August 2012 but also as illustrated by e.g. Basel article history Fyunck removal of -ć from Ivanović, 9 March 2012, 21 May 2013, 12 August 2013, do you see my edits on the Basel article? The 3 other editors reverting this are just rank and file editors.
4. DrMies I would now say that this is a minor trivial issue, and that this one current BLP will probably be left as a monument to tennisnames, and maybe that's how it should be. I have tried my best to be courteous, I hope that overall this is visible, and have not been accusing editors of "lies". In ictu oculi (talk) 08:33, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

This may be a trivial matter to In ictu oculi, but that because he's not the one that being attacked, or has been attacked for 4 years. All someone has to do is search our names and see all the times I pleaded with him to stop fabricating things about me. To stay on topic and not drag my name through the mud every time I comment on a foreign spelling. He says I commented on the tennisnames essay 11x... so did IIO 11x... I guess that makes it his article also. I had told the original essay writer I could not support it... that I always felt we had to look at all sources when determining the spelling of a name. The RfC was "Can a wikiproject require no-diacritics names, based on an organisation's rule or commonness in English press?" The answer was "no" from those voting. You can't make it that narrow in determining anything here on wikipedia. To limit sources to one kind of source didn't fly. Why IIO keeps lying over and over in linking me to that essay I have no idea. I have told him to stop a lot...it's not an error that he's making... it a bold attack that he has gotten away with for years! I want it to stop, and stop NOW! Even now he's so sure of himself that he's done nothing wrong and will likely continue to attack me that he told the admin who asked him to comment that I'm just going to stand back and watch. He's done that a lot... get's a few people to invest time in attacking me and then sits back. He did it in the past with fellow editor... that fellow editor and I got blocked. IIO sat back unharmed. On Nov 25 IIO tried again to drag that same editor into the fray with this diff. This time that editor didn't bite. It's these types of things and his continual tennisnames crapola that led me here. I've had it with him. I will never trust him. It looks like at Talk:Ana Ivanovic another administrator is fed up with him too. Maybe it's IIO that should be topic banned from anything diacritic related such as moving pages and RM's. But all I was demanding was that he be stopped from attacking me. The others can defend themselves. Fyunck(click) (talk) 09:22, 29 November 2015 (UTC)

  • Oppose as frivolous complaint, but advise both editors to avoid further personalization of title/style disputes. Both of these editors have a hard-core position (opposite ones) on MOS:DIACRITICS, and have been testy with each other for years, but this isn't an actionable level of animosity. If anything, the complaint here is so finger-pointy is appears itself to cross the WP:ARBATC#All parties reminded line. Repeated but unproven accusations of making "personal attacks" and engaging in "harassment", plus WP:AGF failures like "I will never trust him", are the kind of aspersion-casting covered by discretionary sanctions there (whether I think ArbCom should be interfering with internal policy discussions or not, which I don't). So, both editors should probably mutually agree to lay off each other. For starters, In ictu oculi should stop trying to "blame" Fyunck(click) for wording at the old tennis wikiproject WP:PROJPAGE, even if F(c) has tried to rely on it in past discussions, or for RfCs like WP:TENNISNAMES. If it goads F(c) that much to link him to the essay/RfCs, the obvious solution is "don't do that". Secondly, F(c) needs to stop accusing IIO of harassment, attacks, and untrustworthiness. Neither of these sound difficult.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  11:18, 30 November 2015 (UTC) [Revised to correct my confusion between RFC and project page shortcuts.]
User:SMcCandlish I can completely live with that suggestion, that neither I nor anyone else ever again suggest that Fyunck was indirectly responsible for the trouble about "tennis names". But evidently we cannot ask editors to not link to two valid RFCs with landslide results. Dozens of editors contributed to WP:TENNISNAMES (an RFC which you posted) and WP:TENNISNAMES2 and these RFCs are binding until someone comes along with WP:TENNISNAMES3 to undo them. But sure, the first suggestion, if it helps, no problem. In ictu oculi (talk) 16:46, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
Right, I was confusing TENNISNAMES with the old version of the WikiProject Tennis "guideline" (essay). I've corrected that above, and yes, it's of course reasonable to cite prior relevant RMs/RfCs. Anyway, not assigning responsibility for either is what I was getting at; it would be in keeping with the "focus on edits not editors" idea, and would help F(c) do likewise, since obviously "continually spreading lies/harassing" isn't exactly civil or focused on the content, either.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  18:48, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
If IIO stops lying about and harassing me on tennis names (as he has done for years and years) then of course I will stop accusing him of lying and harassment. That goes without saying. But I've finally had it with him doing it. All I want is for him to stop. I could care less, if in discussions, people link to that dead tennisnames essay. That's normal course of action. But sorry, after 4 years all trust is used up. I'm not the one who keeps bringing up his name in discussions, that's all on IIO. If he stops, great! If it takes an IBAN great, since I pretty much do that anyway. And I keep focus on the edits, he does not. Fyunck(click) (talk) 22:16, 30 November 2015 (UTC)
[NB: That's what we call a WP:NOTGETTINGIT response. But I'm willing to take your "let this go for now" message below at face value.  — SMcCandlish ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ʌ≼  23:01, 1 December 2015 (UTC)]
If both of you could stop the "lies and harassment" talk, that would be great. In ictu oculi, it would also be helpful if you stopped dragging up the past. Reminding other editors of stuff that happened in 2011 is less than helpful. Thanks. Drmies (talk) 06:11, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

───────────────────────── I'll tell you what. I'll take Liz, SMcCandlish and Drmies on faith. "In ictu oculi" has been warned in this episode for a personal attack and I have also shown that he tried goading others into attacking me. I will bookmark this archive. All I asked was for him to permanently stop. I was to the point after all these years of attacks that I didn't care whether I went down in flames trying to make the attacks stop. It is not trivial when it occurs over and over and over and over...for years. If it happens again I will bring this back and will be asking for a lot more. But I will drop it as of now. Let's close up shop here. Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:17, 1 December 2015 (UTC)


The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Repeated removal of my fact-based comments[edit]

SNUGGUMS, will you please stop your repeated premature archiving of threads? Why do you think we have a bot doing this?

Editor indefinitely blocked by User:Future Perfect at Sunrise. -- Ricky81682 (talk) 11:28, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Smallbones has twice now removed factual commentary of mine and accuses me of being a banned editor. If he wants to proceed with a background investigation of me, that's his prerogative, but until then, his editorial sweep is out of line. - Checking the checkers (talk) 14:51, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

Checking the checkers has been identified by Jimbo Wales on his talk page as the banned editor who has harassed him for 10 years. I think this is obvious, e.g. from CtheC's editing history and his talk page. Jimbo has made clear that other editors (this is in general, though I have been named in particular) can remove edits on that page from editors who are not welcome there. This has been tested twice at ArbCom and they agree that Jimbo's "personal talk page policy" is within the rules and that he doesn't need to personally bless each removal of troll comments. BTW WP:BANREVERT applies here as well. Smallbones(smalltalk) 15:03, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
As Checking the checkers is not currently a banned editor. No it doesnt. "Jimbo says so" is not sufficient. If you feel they are a banned editor, open an SPI. Only in death does duty end (talk) 15:16, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Nope. "Anyone is free to revert any edits made in violation of a ban, without giving any further reason and without regard to the three-revert rule." according to WP:BANREVERT, so after this I will not give any further reason. Take it to ArbCom if you'd like. But see Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Banning_Policy#Amendment_request:_Banning_Policy_.28November_2015.29, especially the comment from jimbo Wales and the Arbitrators comments and mass decline. Smallbones(smalltalk) 15:26, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Don't we also give editos the ability to dictate what remains on their talk pages? I get that Jimbo's talk page is a different sort of talk page, but wouldn't Jimbo specifically asking that this editor's comments be removed trump pretty much everything else? UltraExactZZ Said ~ Did 16:22, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Yes. BMK (talk) 00:27, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Given that Wales replied [14] to a comment it's not clear he doesn't want the guy posting. Anyone have a diff of Wale's saying so? NE Ent 01:35, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

I'd like him kept off my talk page, regardless of the outcome of this discussion or any other. He does nothing but troll, and I don't see any reason to put up with it. Legitimate questions are always welcome - questions asked dishonestly or with a tone of "gotcha" nonsense are just a waste of everyone's time. It is my belief that it is well past time that we introduce a quiet "block this user from my talk page" feature to help eliminate this kind of long term abuse across all of Wikipedia. Many people face this kind of thing.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 11:24, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
Jimbo replied "Nail on the head" (diff) to my post describing how there is nothing helpful he can say. As Smallbones indicates above there has been lots of disruption and Arbcom involvement. Glancing at contribs confirms the diagnosis for those who have followed the pathetic gotcha trolling at Jimbo's talk for years. The banned user spends serious time and money in his campaign to show the evils of Jimbo and the WMF, and he can easily evade checkusers. It's fine if no one wants to block this account, but let's not feed him. The OP has had his fun, but he'll have to make another account in order to resume project Tell the World!. Johnuniq (talk) 04:30, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Lemme tell you a story, Smallbones. A week or so ago there was some back-and-forth on Jimbotalk during which a person who I believed to be my friend Greg Kohs was chirping back and forth with you and Jimmy Wales. I made a comment about it in a Wikipedia thread and Greg posted a smirky little "who, meeeee???" type of post, with a mischievous glimmer in his eye. And about 30 minutes later I received a (non-viewable) personal message from somebody else entirely, another friend, who claimed total responsibility. It wasn't the dreaded Greg Kohs at all... So, Smallbones, long story short — you're not a checkuser, you're not a sock puppet investigator, and you're not an expert in behavioral psychology, nor are you the Chief Censor and Guardian of Wikipedia... You could very easily be getting trolled by a Joe Job — it wouldn't be hard to pull your chain on this topic, that's for certain. If you have a problem, start a proper Sock Puppet Investigation. Maybe it is him, maybe it isn't him. You have no way of knowing... Your pretending that you do is disruptive of the project. Let it go. Carrite (talk) 07:38, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
    • Who cares whether the now-indeffed editor is the actual banned user or was merely emulating them? I wouldn't boast about friends like yours. Johnuniq (talk) 09:10, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Unneeded commentary. - The Bushranger One ping only 12:05, 5 December 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

So I think we can now put Arbcom's resolution claiming to have jurisdiction over Jimbo's talk page Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Arbitration enforcement 2/Proposed decision#Scope of restrictions into the garbage can where it belongs. 141.105.200.162 (talk) 11:48, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Topic ban proposal for Omar-toons[edit]

[Pulled this out of the archive given the new comment by M.Bitton. Drmies (talk) 17:24, 1 December 2015 (UTC)]

Omar-toons (talk · contribs) is a prolific editor on topics related to northern Africa, particularly Morocco and Algeria. Unfortunately he has a strong pro-Moroccan and anti-Algerian POV that makes it impossible for him to work constructively and collaboratively on those topics. The example that brought me here was the Sand War where Omar-toons is giving prominence to less reliable sources and for spurious reasons either removes or de-emphasizes better source. Examples include [15], [16], [17], [18]. By now there's a rather wide, policy-based consensus established on the talk page; that didn't keep him from labeling those opposing his preferred order of sources "disruptive".

That pattern of edits is not limited to a single article: [19][20], [21], [22], [23]. The standard modus operandi is to revert, possibly quoting some irrelevant policy, and to keep reverting until the other side is exhausted. In my experience talk page comments generally are short, if they're given at all, and do not address the points raised by others; they're more of a diversionary tactic than an attempt to establish a consensus.

For these reasons I'm proposing a topic ban for Omar-toons from edits related to North Africa and the Maghreb. Huon (talk) 15:54, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

In my defense I could say that I always try to keep it NPOV, and that disagreeing with me about the edition on one sole article isn't enough to accuse me of being a POV-pusher (I even keep it NPOV about Western Sahara, for example by considering it a separate territory from Morocco, which can be considered illegal here... just to say).
Also, I called M.Bitton "disruptive" because... actually he is. Did you take a look on his TP (in its pre-cleaning version)? He did a mess last time he intervened... [24]. --Omar-toons (talk) 00:38, 23 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Reduce Sanction to 1PR I don't think that we should TB any editor who is adding material to an article. YES his additions are POV(I have just come here from Sand war, an article I went to browse and witnessed it brim over with drama), but still he adds sources and does work. So we should just make sure that we take out the disruptive side of his contributions , and a One revert Per Day sanction should be just that. Toons can continue editing Wiki, but if he is reverted he will have to discuss it without being disruptive. Win Win for all. Regards FreeatlastChitchat (talk) 08:42, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
And, FreeatlastChitchat : you are nor an admin nor involved, except the fact that we had some diagreements on previous articles (where you POV-pushed a lot)... so, what's your point? --Omar-toons (talk) 12:39, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
Ummmm, don't know what to say here when faced with this kind of imbecility. But here goes. DUDE! I am on your frigging side here. Did you not even read my comment? It says "REDUCE SANCTION" right there at the start. Being involved with you in debates and still taking your side on this is evidence in itself that I am not INVOLVED, so whats your point? had I been involved I would have commented something like "Toons is a complete troll who routinely edit wars on Algeria related pages diff, diff, diff, diff. Ban him asap omg why isnt he banned yet. /hairpull #BanToons". So please do not look a gift horse in the mouth. @admins who judge this, my stance still remians that toon should not be topic banned. Regards FreeatlastChitchat (talk) 13:15, 24 November 2015 (UTC)
  • Well, Omar-Toons was blocked for edit-warring this time; my suggestion was going to be that we try and let regular processes play out. I can't see if an ANEW report was filed, but that, perhaps, should be done every time OT gets to edit warring--and kindly point out, in such reports, that typically OT isn't always guilty of 3R, but rather of slower edit warring. I am well aware of OT's zeal and occasional disruption, which includes ownership-style editing and very loose interpretations of policy ("You are a little bit late : all sources are kept per WP:BOLD"); for a topic ban, however, we would need more evidence from different pages. I'll have a look at Huon's second paragraph; in the meantime, I'll also ping Dougweller, who has some experience dealing with this type of problem. In the other meantime, Omar-Toons, I wish that on occasion (like, on this occasion), you could break out your most mellow and collaborative side. Drmies (talk) 22:31, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
  • OK, Omar-toons did the exact same thing on Algerian War just signaled by User:Huon, and I have blocked him again for edit warring, now for 72 hours. Drmies (talk) 23:03, 27 November 2015 (UTC)
I wouldn't ask for a topic ban for a slow-moving edit war, though that's tedious enough on its own. What did it for me was a mistranslation and a misrepresentation of a source. Omar-toons adding sources is no benefit if the sources don't say what he claims they say. Huon (talk) 00:10, 28 November 2015 (UTC)
  • It appears that Omar-toons has used multiple accounts in a very deceitful manner and somehow, managed to cover his tracks. He created Omar-Toons (with capital "T") on April 2010. A few months later (October 2010), he created another account with very similar spelling, Omar-toons (with lower-case "t", the one he still uses). He used both accounts at the same time such as here and here (as usual, either removing sources and claiming that the statement is unsourced or adding WP:OR). After numerous blocks, including one for socking using IP [25], his account Omar-Toons (with capital "T") was finally globally locked for massive crosswiki edit-warring on July the 29th, 2012 [26]. To hide his tracks, on the 30th of July 2012 (less than 24 hours after his global block), he created a third account TooNs-NC, claimed a forgotten password (obviously, he could not log in since he was blocked), redirected Omar-Toons (with capital "T") page [27] and talk page [28] to it (even though, he had no right to mess with a blocked account). Three hours later, after a couple of contributions, he archived the pages and redirected them to Omar-toons (he shelved the temporary account, claiming it was a bad idea to create it). He also added "formerly Omar-Toons (with capital T)" to his page[29] knowing full well that When you click on it, you get redirected to the new page and won't notice anything unusual. @Huon, Drmies, and FreeatlastChitchat: How do you deal with such devious practice? Is a topic ban enough in this case? M.Bitton (talk) 17:11, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for that. Doesn't evading a global lock warrant an indef block? https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:CentralAuth/Omar-Toons Fences&Windows 23:35, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
It's block evasion and sockpuppetry, which automatically should see the socks indeffed. Huon (talk) 00:51, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
Black Kite, you indeffed capital T in 2012. Any comments? Drmies (talk) 04:16, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
Correction: you blocked them for socking. Drmies (talk) 04:17, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Unjustified removal of articles from establishment by place categories.[edit]

User:Spacini has repeatedly removed articles such as 119th Illinois Volunteer Infantry Regiment from categories such as Category:1862 establishments in Illinois claiming these are "Unneccesary categories". The articles clearly state that these units were organized at a certain place in a certain year. Of there last 50 edits, 49 have been such unjustified removals of place/year categories. It seems to me if they disagree with such categories this is a matter that should be brought up as a category discussion, not by unilaterally removing categories. Here are some diffs https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=119th_Illinois_Volunteer_Infantry_Regiment&diff=prev&oldid=693294807 https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=116th_Indiana_Infantry_Regiment&diff=prev&oldid=693294776 This is very disruptive and an unjustified undermining of the encyclopedia.John Pack Lambert (talk) 04:35, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

User:WikiBulova[edit]

WikiBulova (talk · contribs · count) appears upset that me and other editors did not appreciate his/her copy&paste creation of new list-type articles (List of newspapers in Karachi, List of magazines in Karachi, List of radio stations in Karachi, List of television stations in Karachi), all being a selective copy-paste of existing artciles (List of newspapers in Pakistan, List of magazines in Pakistan, List of radio stations in Pakistan, List of television stations in Pakistan), and in apparent revenge went on to revert anything I edited on Wikipedia in the last 24 hours.[30] [31] [32] [33] [34]. I politely pointed out to the editor the reasons behind my edits to the lists,[35] and requested undoing his/her edits, but he/she does not appear to have understood this. Thank you to intervene. Regards, kashmiri TALK 17:18, 1 December 2015 (UTC)

This isn't the first time this user has engaged in (and been warned for) retaliatory editing—see [36] [37] [38] [39]. (TLDR version: I fixed one of their cut-and-paste moves and left a polite note informing them about this and about the correct procedure for moving pages. They responded by accusing me of threats, and then filed a spurious edit warring report on me at WP:AN3.) —Psychonaut (talk) 20:12, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
  • I think copying within Wikipedia says to give attribution to the parent article in edit summary or on talk page of article even while copying something from other Wikipedia articles. This editor seems to be not giving any attribution to his/her copy paste articles. Also he/she should read WP:SIZESPLIT before making any sub-articles related to same issue. Specially his this behaviour seems to be very disruptive, though he self-reverted himself. --Human3015TALK  20:57, 1 December 2015 (UTC)
    • Yes, the editor saw in my edit history that I edited Kashmir Railway and decided to inflict some damage.[40]. Childish, to say the least. kashmiri TALK 09:48, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

2.86.255.196[edit]

2.86.255.196 continues to silently removed condensed box office values at 2015 in film, most recently here, despite having received two warnings about edit warring, along with my clear explanation that consensus already exists for the condensed values. Further, I've pointed out to them twice that a discussion is already in place at Talk:2015 in film, which they have not participated in. The article had recently been protected to foster dialogue, but the IP editor failed to participate. Other edits of the same kind from the IP: [41][42][43][44] Looks to me like the user is determined to get his way. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:00, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

I will also point out that six minutes after I notified him that an ANI case was open on him, he again submitted his preferred version after another editor had reverted him. Clearly disruptive behavior, and he has crossed 3RR. Cyphoidbomb (talk) 19:21, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

I placed a 3RR warning on the IPs talk page. Regardless of the content involved (which I'm not taking a position on at this time as I'm about to logoff and haven't had time to review positions on each side about the content), edit warring is not acceptable. --- Barek (talkcontribs) - 19:22, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Spammer[edit]

PicoRobin (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) Seems like a single-purpose account for spamming one url, and trying to disguise it as a valid source. Eik Corell (talk) 16:14, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Doesn't appear as though s/he has edited since you left him/her a warning. Erpert blah, blah, blah... 01:43, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

IP editor removing Star Citizen from List of most expensive games to develop[edit]

Content dispute that is now under discussion on the article talk page. - The Bushranger One ping only 14:33, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Someone (IP: 75.156.66.139) is continuously removing this game from the list of most expensive games to develop (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_video_games_to_develop), based on these false arguments:

- Game is unfinished (Irrelevant fact to be removed from that list as the list itself doesn't have in mind the current status of a game, the game is currently work-in-progress, and there are also other unfinished/cancelled games on that list that he doesn't care about in the slightest, proof that he's only a SC hater).

- Numbers doesn't represent the amount destined to the development of the game (False: the SC devs have stated many times that the funds in the linked Stretch Goals page goes exclusively to the development of the game (1) (2). Other marketing and event stuff is handled by donations from subscribers (3) ).

(1) https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals , quote: "As a crowd funded project, Star Citizen's scope is based directly on the support provided by our backers. Money pledged goes directly to the game's development."

(2) "10 for the Chairman, Episode 69" YouTube video , (minute 4:45), quote from SC's creator and chairman as of 9, Nov 2015: "We're not doing the typical commercials. We're taking all the money we've raised, and put it into the development of the game".

(3) https://robertsspaceindustries.com/faq/subscriptions

Even knowing the truth, he keeps removing the game from that list. Thus I ask if that guy can be banned from editing this page any further. Thank you.

P.D: I'm afraid I have no idea about how to use the ANI-notice. Any help about that would be appreciated :)— Preceding unsigned comment added by KurtMaverick (talkcontribs) 07:20, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

I have notified the IP user. But this looks like a content dispute. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 08:06, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
I have asked 75.156.66.139 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) to discuss this on the talk page. Kurt, before going to AN/I you should have opened a discussion on their talk page and on the article talk about the edit, not immediately about blocking them. It is irritating when this happens, but if you don't explain on the talk pages why the content should be kept and why repeatedly removing it is not OK then an admin can hardly take action this early into a disagreement. I have now warned them that they may be blocked if they continue to remove Star Citizen. Fences&Windows 08:15, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Am, sorry. I'm a complete noob in this :) Thanks for notifying him for me thou. I also wrote the reason why it shouldn't be removed on the Talk page, but I'm gonna update it with this version (which is more complete). — Preceding unsigned comment added by KurtMaverick (talkcontribs) 12:05, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

I would also suggest that you not call the IP editor a "Star Citizen hater" or any other pejorative. That is a direct violation of Wikipedia's no personal attacks policy and could result in your own temporary block if it continues. —Farix (t | c) 12:36, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Fixed as well, thanks. — Preceding unsigned comment added by KurtMaverick (talkcontribs) 12:54, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

Brief note: I believe I've corrected the mass of unsigned comments and refactoring at Talk:List of most expensive video games to develop and posted a warning to KurtMaverick concerning refactoring/deleting the talk page comments of other editors, which he has done twice on this topic in the last two days. -- ferret (talk) 02:13, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

The issue is under discussion on article talk page, so I suppose request here can be closed. Sir Lothar (talk) 14:29, 3 December 2015 (UTC)


The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Possible uncivil conduct; requesting mediation[edit]

HuntClubJoe (talk · contribs) blocked 48h for personal attacks. - The Bushranger One ping only 14:35, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Contributor has possibly engaged in uncivil behaviour on their talk page. [45] It is requested that a party not involved in discussion mediate or weigh-in on the matter so as to help deescalate situation.

Background: This is an out-crop from (extremely minor and trivial) dispute involving addition of advert tag to Rogers Communications article. This resulted in comments left on talk page of Raysonho, found here; to which myself [46] and that contributor [47] responded. After this, I also left a reply on talk page of HuntClubJoe, stating that uncivil behaviour is unwelcome within the project and encourage them to behave civilly. [48] (I replied to the first-linked possible incivility about 30 minutes ago and that diff may be found here)

-- dsprc [talk] 14:07, 2 December 2015 (UTC)

I've warned the editor about personal attacks and asked them to redact it.
 — Berean Hunter (talk) 14:39, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
Mediation is voluntary and can be requested at the dispute resolution noticeboard or requests for formal mediation. Civility is not optional and one editor has been warned. If the editors want to resolve a content dispute, they can request mediation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Robert McClenon (talkcontribs) 19:29, 2 December 2015‎
@Robert McClenon: WP:DRN says in header with bold text it is to only be used for disputes on content. AN/I seems to be the only venue as ingress point for conduct-related matters. Formal mediation (and most other routes) require preceding options to have already been explored and/or exhausted before raising issues within, and escalating to, those particular venues. Gotta love (loathe?) all that red-tape! Smile.gif Berean Hunter handled the matter perfectly (a simple "Hey, cut it out" was sufficient action at this juncture). -- dsprc [talk] 05:23, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
User:Dsprc - You said that there was uncivil conduct and you were requesting mediation. Maybe you made the good-faith mistake of labeling a request for an admin warning, which was given, as a request for mediation. You are correct that DRN is for content disputes. Mediation is for content disputes. Maybe this has been taken care of. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:52, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
Bad move
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
If not one of you idiots have the wherewithal to say something about the actual CONTENT, you can block the shit out of me. WP has become a cesspool of corporate trolls, and people like myself who can't afford to invest 100 hours a month fighting it are helpless to do anything but watch it swirl the fucking bowl. WP:3RR is what, only for people like me who can't pull out all the procedural stops to fuck others over? OK. Peace the fuck out.
PS: You can look at my record of edits. Though not as voluminous as some here, they are stellar and, with two notable exceptions (by troll jerkoffs User:Dsprc and User:Earl Andrew), unchallenged. I tried to contribute to this project, but all I get is shit on. Fuck you all, you lot of keyboard warriors. FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK FUCK. Apparently, that offends you more than the whoring out of WP. Jesus Christ. Be sure to hold your collective breath for a redaction! LMAO!HuntClubJoe (talk) 12:35, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Editor excluding widely reported undisputed religion of San Bernardino Shooter[edit]

(non-admin closure) Seems to have been resolved, editor reported has been blocked. Discussion surrounding appropriateness of including religion can continue on talk page, using whatever forms of WP:Dispute resolution that are needed. Nil Einne (talk) 15:22, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I am being threatened by User:Cwobeel with [49] with discretionary sanctions for reinserting a neutral statement noting the shooter's religion in with other biographical information. [50] [51] The statement was previously last removed by an editor now blocked for edit warring over this exact point. [52]. Could an uninvolved Admin look into this please. See these discussions [53] [54], [55] maybe other sections too. Legacypac (talk) 02:58, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

I see no reason to avoid mentioning the shooter's religion, which has been widely reported, and which is starting to figure heavily in the investigation. It is not irrelevant information, and Cwobeel should know better. And this view is coming from a person (me) who has been known to remove listings of religion from infoboxes when there is nothing in the article to support it; i.e. I have no prejudice for or against including religion, it all depends on the circumstance and the relevance. We do our readers no service by excluding pertinent information because of political correctness. BMK (talk) 03:41, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
Can someone explain how this is not a normal content dispute which would simply require time and consensus building to solve? --Jayron32 03:57, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
Hey, Jayron. I agree this forum is being hijacked by users who are using it for petty arguments (I'm the brunt of 2 such accusations here myself). What I personally would like to see is some consensus (not here) on whether or not citing a figure's religion can or cannot be mentioned irrespective of whether or not they specifically stated it as the motives for their actions. I'm finding this topic to be very selective and think there should be a wikipedia standard in one direction or another...but agree this is not the forum for it.Trinacrialucente (talk) 04:08, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
While only tangentially related, Wikipedia:Categorization/Ethnicity, gender, religion and sexuality provides some useful guiding principles. While it does deal only specifically with assigning categories to articles, some of the principles therin could perhaps be generalized to article text where there is an impasse in trying to find general guidance. However, written policy, whether direct or indirectly related, rarely overrides broad consensus. The most important principle is that, while reliable sources are a necessary condition for a fact to be added, they are not sufficient to prevent it from being excluded. This sort of "necessary but not sufficient" thinking is very important in consensus building discussions: We do need to prove a concept is reliably sourced; but after that there ALSO needs to be consensus (sometimes as simple as "consensus by lack of objection", but in this case we're looking for a more overt consensus by affirmation), in the sense that people need to agree that the referenced fact is relevent on top of being referenced. If consensus is that it isn't relevant to the article, the fact that it is reliably sourced doesn't mean much at all. Now, that is not being specific on this case. Consensus may find it is very relevant. But these are things that need to be discussed and negotiated every time, and are NOT something which can be solved by having some policy statement in place ahead of time. It does need to be discussed, and given time to work out, every time, so long as there is a good-faith difference of opinion. If there is, you just need to let consensus develop, and that does not happen instantly. I hope this general guidance helps frame the ongoing discussion better. I have no pony in this race, I'm just trying to provide all parties with some guidance on how civil discourse among differing opinions is supposed to work. --Jayron32 04:24, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

I'm not looking to discuss here - just looking for an uninvolved Admin to look into the content dispute and resolve it (there is no RfC but similar idea). This article is one of the highest traffic on the site currently, and the issue of the topic is dominating the news (see CNN.com for example) Better not let this drag on for weeks. I see clear consensus one way... but an uninvolved admin would be appreciated. Legacypac (talk) 04:28, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

  • Start an RFC. Don't edit war. Jehochman Talk 04:50, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

I was also threatened by this user in the same manner, for making one single edit to that page to restore the removal of facts that were properly cited regarding the shooter's religion. [56] This is the first time in over a decade of contributions to Wikipedia that I have been threatened insulted in this manner. --Dan East (talk) 04:53, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

What makes this not just a content dispute is the possibility -- not yet shown to be true -- that an editor is using Discretionary Sanction notices as a tool to enforce a specific POV about what should and should not be in the article. If that is true, it is a misuse of the DS notice. I would suggest that (1) Cwobeel stop putting DS notices on the talk pages of editors who think that the shooter's religion should be noted, or put DS notices on the talk pages of all editors involved with this dispute; and (2) Cwobeel should participate in this discussion and disclose the thinking behind their actions. It's perfectly possible that Cwobeel's actions have been misinterpreted or misunderstood, so it would serve them and the community well to hear form them. BMK (talk) 05:19, 4 December 2015 (UTC) (Comment edited for correction: Cwobeel is not an admin.) BMK (talk) 05:23, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
I do see disruptiveness on Cwobeel's part there. There's enough discussion on the talk page favoring including the person's religion in the article that one can observe a consensus without a formal rfc or wikilawyering. Unless I missed something, there's no actual content- or source- based opposition on the talk page to including it. There's just some BURO saying it should be discussed first, which it has been. And Cwobeel has reverted the info at least 3 times.[57][58][59] The earlier reverts might be more defendable than the later ones, since the sourcing has become more extensive in the past day or so. However, I agree that the DS notices in this situation are obnoxious and come across as threatening. Cwobeel, please give it a rest. 173.228.123.101 (talk) 05:46, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

I have placed notices to alert several editors of discretionary sanctions related to the BLP topic. That was not done to enforce a POV, but to alert those users that may not be aware of these sanctions. The OP may be attempting to use this board to resolve a content dispute, instead of continuing the discussion (about which there is yet no emerging consensus) per WP:DR. AN/I is not the venue for content disputes. The discussion is ongoing at Talk:2015 San Bernardino shooting#Devout Muslim edit. - Cwobeel (talk) 05:35, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

  • Well, that section shows no consensus at all; in fact, the stronger arguments lie with the removers right now. Verified, possibly; relevant in an encyclopedia, not necessarily. Since motive is still not clear, the role of his faith is equally unclear, and while the tabloids and Twitter seem to know exactly why he did what he did, we can't speculate. I note that Robert Lewis Dear is supposedly Christian, evangelical--but neither his article (now up at AfD) nor 2015 Colorado Springs shooting mention this. This is one problem with a million editors who don't care about NOTNEWS: we have to jump to conclusions and follow whatever is tweeted and blogged and reported. Jehochman, you suggested an RfC, but we seem to have no time for such niceties. Drmies (talk) 05:50, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
    • Drmies, are you looking at the same talk page as I am? I don't see anyone supporting removal. 173.228.123.101 (talk) 05:53, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
      • Don't know what you're looking at, but let me just namecheck General_Ization, 24.130.189.187 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), Cwobeel, ParkH.Davis, ATinySliver, Epicgenius, all of whom have at the least expressed reservations. BTW, this does not mean I agree with any strongarming, if that's indeed what Cwobeel did. Drmies (talk) 06:00, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
        • I see, you're looking at the earlier sections [60] and maybe [61]. I was only looking at the more recent [62] and [63]. I'd tend to put more weight on the later contributions due to new reporting of the FBI claiming the guy may have been radicalized by talking to people on a terror watchlist, and extensive secondary sourcing from the last day or so interpreting the religion angle (there were fewer such sources available earlier), plus the info that one of the shooting victims was an islamophobe who the guy had a beef with.[64] But ok, fine, if there's still uncertainty then yeah, talk it out. I'd suggest putting a note at the bottom of the talk page linking to the discussion that is happening way further up the page. Alternatively, move the discussion to the bottom. 173.228.123.101 (talk) 07:14, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
      • I see more than a 2:1 consensus for including their religion.
  • I made one single edit to the page. So are you saying that you are posting discretionary sanctions notices to every single editor to that page? Or only the ones that do not share your point of view? Either way it is clearly misuse and bullying on your part. --Dan East (talk) 06:04, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

For the record, the OP has reverted to his preferred version [65] two hours after he posted this thread, instead of allowing consensus to emerge. While I understand the reasons for wanting that information included, there are other opinions expressed in talk page discussions that are relevant and significant enough to allow for consensus to emerge. - Cwobeel (talk) 05:47, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

  • I have to say that this edit can speak in favor of inclusion. But what I see on that talk page is too much "it's verified so it's in", and a few things that are just totally speculative--"he went to Saudi-Arabia so he must be a Muslim and a terrorist", to paraphrase. Drmies (talk) 06:05, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
Even the usually left leaning CNN is reporting that Farook was a Muslim and that officials indicate that he was "radicalized" and had contact with someone on the FBI terrorist watch list. [66]--MONGO 06:03, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
  • Left-leaning CNN? Aw Mongo, you so sweet... Drmies (talk) 06:05, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
  • The Clinton News Network? Lol. I loved yesterday how they kept trying as long as they could to spin it as a case of "workplace violence"...completely jumping to conclusions about the motivations with nary a thought about neutrality. Compared to the oft claimed Fox News as right leaning, of course CNN is left leaning in comparison.--MONGO 06:10, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
I have nothing to apologize for after starting [67] and there is another discussion too [68], responses to which confirmed the need for basic religion info in the midst of other bio info. Please don't name check an editor on 24 hr block over this issue. Legacypac (talk) 06:19, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
  • How about the Wall Street Journal.[69]...why wouldn't it be okay to indicate that the shooters were Muslim? Major news sources have no issue with it.--MONGO 06:21, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
Or Canada's CTVNews which covers his faith from a variety of points [70]. I'm not anti-muslim, I'm just trying to get the article to reflect the sources in a CREDIBLE way. I'm also not seeing anyone posting anything like "he went to Saudi-Arabia so he must be a Muslim and a terrorist", - perhaps I missed that. Legacypac (talk) 06:28, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Use of DS notices to enforce POV - since the question was raised by User:Drmies and BMK these are the pairs I could find - which seems to me to contradict his stated purpose above:

  • Reverts User:Tdl1060 [71] and hits them with DS template[72] right after
  • User:Dan East restores [73] his deletion of Muslim reference and he gets a DS template [74]
  • Reverts my addition [75] and 6 edits later puts DS on my talk page [76]
  • According to him "We don't template experienced editors." [77]. Legacypac (talk) 06:49, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

Since I was name-checked above, I'll leave this here: IMO, the article is about the event, not its perpetrators, and the argument that Farook's religion is merely biographical fails on that basis alone. More importantly, until and/or unless it is determined that his religion is a factor in the event, it fails SYNTH and UNDUE. My opinion would be the same were he Christian, Jew, Buddhist, Pagan or Jedi. —ATinySliver/ATalkPage 🖖 07:08, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

If we split the bio info into Bio articles over the current redirects for the perps you would be ok with including religion then? Cause at Boston Marathon Bombing that is what happened and the dispute over including faith was short lived. Legacypac (talk) 07:14, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
I think the issue of this thread though should return to how Cwobeel, who has been blocked five times for edit warring over similar issues, is going around slapping discretionary sanctions warnings on any user that disagrees with his edits, even though the article talkoage already has that boilerplate atop it.--MONGO 07:20, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict) ATinySliver, there is now plenty of secondary sourcing discussing the religious angle and its (possible) significance. It may turn out to be wrong, but by now it's sufficiently notable that it can be documented anyway per NPOV. That can be done without a trace of SYNTH: are you saying it still shouldn't be?. Similarly, media and LE reporting during the attack said there were 3 shooters, but there were later determined to be just two. As I see it, that too is also notable and should be in the article. 173.228.123.101 (talk) 07:26, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
Possible significance is not significance per NOTNEWS, and can be added at any time its significance is established per NODEADLINE. Even then, an RS would need to establish that Islamist extremism was appealing because he's Muslim (extremists appeal to people of all stripes, religious or non) or we violate SYNTH. On that note specifically, the "plenty of secondary sourcing" I've seen comprises family and co-workers saying he was (or used to be) devout, as if contrary to, not explanatory of, his actions; Muslim leaders engaging in what appears to me to be preemptive damage control; and investigators saying there may—as in, may not—be ties to Islamist extremists. This again points to synthesizing from his religion that he was somehow more susceptible to the message than a non-Muslim. All of this may turn out to be fully accurate, or it may not—and, hell, that invokes CRYSTAL to boot. —ATinySliver/ATalkPage 🖖 10:12, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
All this said, in context within the paragraph, I would not have an objection to the likes of "His father and co-workers described Farook as devoutly religious." —ATinySliver/ATalkPage 🖖 10:32, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
No there should be no synthesis. Just report what the secondary sources say, including summarizing whatever interpretations they give, and they have given some. The article has an NPOV failure if stuff like this is missing. The media response to that report is notable in its own right.[78] 173.228.123.101 (talk) 10:43, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
I agree with MONGO that the DS notices are combative. 173.228.123.101 (talk) 07:29, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
Legacypac, I don't think there should be a separate bio article for now, per BLP1E. The biographical info (unless a lot more emerges) should stay in the article about the shooting. 173.228.123.101 (talk) 07:31, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
That much is absolutely correct. —ATinySliver/ATalkPage 🖖 10:12, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
  • I've blocked Cwobeel for 24 hours for misuse of DS notices. Max Semenik (talk) 10:37, 4 December 2015 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Personal attacks from User:Lecen in my talk page[edit]

NO ACTION
Nothing to see here folks, let's move along now.  Philg88 talk 09:25, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Hello.

I come here to denounce the conduct of the user User:Lecen. As of the December 4, 2015, I uploaded on commons a historical map with sufficient references to corroborate its verifiability. The file in question is File:Brazil (1822).svg.

He and I discussed if the map is wrong or not, and towards the end of the discussion, that user started referring to me with extreme rudeness and childish insults, as you can see here in my talk page, breaking the policy of civility.

This user had a history of hostility towards me, and not wanting to measure our pos