Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive926

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To whom it may concern[edit]

I was told this was a more appropriate place for the request I made here [1]. I'm not into infinite hoop-jumping, so take it for what you will, but I'm not going to invest a lot of time in follow-up to this observation. I've got better things to do with my life than wiki-lawyering. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 03:48, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

First, did you notify User:Cuzkatzimhut that you were presenting a complaint about them here? This is a requirement. See the top of the page.
Second, what I see is that Cuzkatzimhut reverted your addition of a [clarification needed] template at Dynamical pictures with the perfectly civil comment "It is detailed at mathematical length subsequently, Pls discuss in Talkpage before vandalizing." Other than the characterization as vandalizing, which you might (but probably shouldn't) take exception to, what exactly is abusive about this? And did you take the editor's suggestion to discuss on the article's Talk page? It appears not from your editing history. General Ization Talk 03:57, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
  • Sure, true, but let me add that Cuzkatzimhut's comment, that the IP should get an account so "they can be talked to, responsibly and accountably", I object to the sentiment and the statement. Drmies (talk) 04:00, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
He does have a point. IP editors can't be pinged, and the router in my office recycles the IP every time the phone rings, meaning you can't easily notify somebody if you want to talk about something (as the relevant user talk page changes with the wind), and can only blindly hope they stumble across your talk page post, which doesn't happen too often. (As for how I know all this, an exercise for the reader, not that I'd advocate doing the odd edit as an IP when you're supposed to be on wikibreak, oh no...) Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 09:36, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
So it is possible that Cuzkatzimhut has a bad attitude when it comes to IPs and their edits. The question remains whether and how that attitude has manifested itself in some behavior that is appropriate to discuss at ANI. So far, I see none, and this is not the attitude correction noticeboard. General Ization Talk 04:11, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
A minnow on their talk page reminding them that good faith edits aren't vandalism.--v/r - TP 05:23, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
Small reminder that I was asked to post here, after already having tried elsewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 15:56, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

User:Cuzkatzimhut seems to have some sort of bad attitude, when it comes to IPs. But, a lot of editors here have a bad attitude towards everyone.


however he also seems quite proud of being able to click on the whois link for IPs and post their locations, which despite whois being easy to use, is also borderline outing. [[3]] User_talk: [[4]]

I'd suggest that someone might want to have a word, and suggest that he treats IPs with a little more respect, and more importantly, he needs to stop hunting around whois so he can put their locations in his edit summaries. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 09:26, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

  • Someone might want to suggest appropriate use of twinkle too.
"Reverted good faith edits by (talk): Unwarranted & tendentious: " Well if its tendentious its not a good faith edit is it?
"Created page with 'Would you like to get a WP account? It gives you an inside track and obscures your Cambridge IP coordinates--should you be inclined to be concerned....". "Reverted 1 edit by (talk): Evidently they skimp on dimensional analysis at Guelph. Please think before you trash!" - Both insulting and indicating they are routinely looking into IP locations. The use of naming peoples locations - while not outing per the policy - is certainly prodding the edges of the spirit of it: "Reverted 1 edit by (talk): Does what you wrote appear proportional to the inverse in Atlanta? please desist from vandalism.",
"Reverted 1 edit by (talk): Dick you check where a point on the x-axis goes?" - Just insulting.
"Created page with 'Please get a legitimate account. Peremptory reverts especially on controversial flagged issues such as this one are frowned upon by Wikipedia." "Reverted 1 edit by (talk): Can you please get an account so this can be discussed instead of PEREMPTORY REVERTS?" - while reverting... Incorrect anyway, for the moment editing as an IP is a legitimate account and so on.
From looking at their history they appear to have an ongoing problem with IP's editing articles they are watching, mild to moderate incivility depending on how annoyed they are, an inaccurate and out of process understanding of the rights allowed to IP editors, as well as an inaccurate understanding of what is 'vandalism' on wikipedia (no it is not something you disagree with, or even something that is factually wrong). Only in death does duty end (talk) 09:58, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
I think my opinion here is not worth a whole lot (I'm not an admin, and I have been blocked a couple of times) however, this might be a situation in which a respected admin talking to this guy, one to one and explaining what is and isn't good, might go a long way. It's all simple stuff "don't state the location of IP editors and don't make comments/edits based on if an editor decides to make an account or not." Spacecowboy420 (talk) 10:51, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
I think the moment we start treating one opinion as being worth more than another just because of a couple of short blocks, we might as well hang WP:AGF out to dry, because we'll have pissed all over it Face-wink.svg Muffled Pocketed 10:55, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
This is exactly right. My feeling is that Wikipedia is often an unwelcoming place for IP users like myself, due to disproportionate responses by some editors. I understand that there are problems, but why does that make me part of the problem? I like the trend towards automated vandalism detection, as I believe that is much more neutral. I will be much happier with the general state of affairs when WP assumes good faith, and when the wiki-lawyering is reduced to a minimum. At that point, it might actually feel like I'm part of a respectful community again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 16:17, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
Well said. The more universal that attitude becomes, the better this place will be. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 11:00, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

I certainly did not mean "Dick you check where..." but "Did you check where...", which my check-speller garbled and I could not amend--of course I would be apologetic for that! "Tendentious" could be in good faith but still counterproductive. "Outing" of the IPs location is an illustration of why IPs might opt for an account; WP provides these in plethora for a reason. Besides, tell me you did not notice the more than one different IPs from the same area all hacking at the same page in barely technically competent terms. In science matters, it is not true that misconceptions are plain "mere differences of opinion".

In the same breath, I would invite the self-summoned jury to also consider the pitiful erosion of perfectly good articles by lack of adequate patrolling against anonymous swarms of IPs, impossible to address and to investigate. A well-meaning experienced editor may simply observe the undeniable extent of the erosion and suggest workable countermeasures against this critical vulnerability, instead of obsessing on civility aspects. The fact is that pages ignored by page watchers for two months collapse into washed-out sandcastles by largely clueless IP sniping and either take enormous effort to restore, or else the watchers shrug them off and drop them off their watchlist. (Students at sites such as PE Exchange then execrate the low-quality "garbage of Wikipedia" which had, of course, seen better days.) I strongly believe you should also consider this serious and central issue of protection in the same breath as manners, and not walk away from it as somebody else's business... "let them fix it". Citing WP policy pages and endless discussions do not fix crises.Cuzkatzimhut (talk) 11:21, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

All of the wikipedia research is very clear. Most edits by IPs are good edits. Most good edits come from IP editors. You are wrong. Your attitude sucks and has driven away some good editors. Your behaviour is problematic; you need to change. If you really want to continue to push IP editors to get an account (and you shouldn't, because 5 pillars and because they way you've gone about it so far is pointy and disruptive) you shoud read eg this: DanBCDanBC (talk) 18:56, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

outing someone to illustrate why they should make an account, is like setting fire to someone's house to illustrate why they should have bought a sprinkler system. well, it isn't exactly the same, but I'm sure you get my point. Yes, IPs can jump into wikipedia and cause chaos, however it takes an IP about 30 seconds to make an account, and they are still just as capable of causing just as much chaos. It's frustrating. I don't really like the idea of "an encyclopedia that anyone can edit" - I'd prefer a trust system in which it would take a user months to gain the sort of access required to make edits. But we don't have that. We have this. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 14:14, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

To be sure, we have this. However, I hope the irony might not be lost on you that WP has all these anti-sockpuppet measures for registered users, but any mention that one is noticing or correlating locations on IPs is thought to be bad form. You must have seen the jubilant mischief perpetrated through that loophole, now, haven't you? Are you inviting me to illustrate? My pleas for help in the last 10 years for protection against it have fallen on sluggish ears, so I have long since given up on those. Pardon the monotony, but I would like to re-center the issue on practical prevention of the flood of unprovable and possibly unwitting damage: the "open whiteboard effect". Talk pages are there for a reason. I disagree that a registered user causing chaos is no more accountable than a bevy of swirling IPs, though. Cuzkatzimhut (talk) 14:32, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
Or alternatively, you could accept that this is the encyclopedia that anyone can edit and stop harrassing IP's to register. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:39, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
"Harassing"? Phew! Maybe hectoring to discuss first, a WP policy. IPs have long realized that messing around is fun and with no consequences. Leave stacks of markers on a public library table. Did it occur to you why scientists snort when they hear WP and send one to Scholarpedia, instead? Do you see IPs represented in talk pages? That's your solution to the central question I'm posing? Let anonymous and unresponsive IPs trash all they can without practical redress mechanisms? (Just take a look at the edit history of Quark: you think "whack-a-mole is fun and business as usual?) Routinely request dozens of page protections? Unintentionally you may be all but arguing for benign neglect of systematic degradation of articles. I insist on my challenge to you: How is one to protect technical pages from "playful" IP degradation without an army of patrollers --- who clearly fail in their job quite badly, at least in the technical pages of WP. Cuzkatzimhut (talk) 18:41, 3 June 2016 (UTC)
Quark, did you say? I would be more concerned about your edit that reintroduced vandalism into the article after an IP removed it. Another IP has since removed it. --Malcolmxl5 (talk) 12:22, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
Yes, you are right on this one; but, of course, it illustrates my chaos of "whack-a-mole" I brought to your attention: I slipped a version in my revert, but, judging from the June 3 activity of the page, you do appreciate one's frustration. I would not like you to lose sight of the central point I am making here, however, that, if consensus is the central pillar of WP, how do you achieve consensus with anonymous figures in the night who will not talk to you?. I'm still waiting for an answer, rather than perorations on the rights of IPs. Cuzkatzimhut (talk) 13:29, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
If you want the IPs to contribute constructively in Wikipedia, then you should have treated them nicely. Your attitude is disruptive and concerning. The problem with you is that you assume bad faith before assuming good faith. Outing IPs is not a valid reason for IPs to register in Wikipedia. It is their choice, not yours. I think Cuzkatzimhut must be topic banned + access to Twinkle revoked (if that's possible), to prevent this user from driving away more potentially constructive editors (which includes all IPs of course). IPs do not want to talk to you because they know that it will just be a waste of time for them. They already knew that you were hostile towards IPs. Pokéfan95 (talk) 13:52, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
Two small points. IPs do not talk to me, or you or anyone. If they do not use the Talk page, they throw their bricks in the night and nobody can talk to them. "Outing" is a silly hyperbole: I divulged public information, which WP provides to all and everyone uses. I have correlated malefactors hounding the same pages, from the same areas, though. I have not "outed" them, but considered their actions suitably. I do not assume bath faith automatically. But if you witness the depredations on important pages by the same characters that we encounter on technical pages and you advise for ignoring or coddling their bad behavior, so be it. Remember, though, you are advocating banning etc, for a registered account. If I were 200 IPs without an exact record of 10 years service, we would not be having this conversation. Before censorious rants try answering the central question I keep posing and reposing. What do you do? 23:12, 4 June 2016 (UTC)Cuzkatzimhut (talk)
Plenty of IP's talk to people all the time. You are clearly naming their locations in order to chill/intimidate them into registering. Wikipedia has already determined that IP's can edit and that is a valid choice for them. This is a non-discussion. If you dont like having to deal with the occasional drive-by vandal, you are free to go to scholarpedia. Only in death does duty end (talk) 23:17, 4 June 2016 (UTC)
Nobody said IPs should not edit. This is a canard you created by strenuous cherry-picking of my record. They should, however, stick to the same WP rules that registered editors do, and discuss their actions, not with me, but with all editors. Many do. We are discussing the ones that aggressively don't. I'm not in the business of intimidation---is anyone on this self-assembled crowd? IPs should be as accountable as anyone else: they are not a protected species. In fact, WP is encouraging them to register. I would beg you, however, to go back and look into why I barked to the people I did, and what recourse I had at the time. It is the question I keep asking, but nobody here dares face. And, no, we are not dealing with "occasional drive-by vandals", we are dealing with massive and routine rambunctious vandalism. If you feel you can get volunteers to reverse it by the thousands, why haven't you? Why do you rely on my likes? Cuzkatzimhut (talk) 00:39, 5 June 2016 (UTC)

Exactly with what is Cuzkatzimhut being charged with, and what would be the appropriate consequences?

I see that one editor is above suggesting a topic ban. It is so downright stupid that my wristwatch just stopped.

Falling back on general hubbub about the merits of IP users is not going to do any good for the articles that are involved in this discussion. The fact that IP users on average improve WP articles does not mean that they improve all science articles. They don't, by far. The articles at most risk are the articles that I suspect Cuzkatzimhut's has on his/hers watchlist (probably mathematical physics related ones). Some of these benefit from IP edits, some don't. The "popular ones", like Quantum mechanics, decidedly do not. Others, highly technical ones, like Lie algebra extension do the few times they are edited, because they are sought up by experts only. Articles in more pure mathematics do not suffer badly from the same problem. The difference is that there seems to be a 10 to 1 mathematician to mathematical physicist ratio. The mathematicians take turns reverting bad IP edits.

The above paragraph highlights the prevailing situation for the articles involved here. You have a one to many ratio of competent editors to incompetent editors. I am much less concerned with some IP's feelings getting hurt for being reverted than concerned about the articles. And, face it, it is the revert itself that hurts. Nobody likes being told they are wrong (even when they are). That same person just cannot feel personally offended by being told why he/she is wrong. This thread actually proves me wrong. The OP does feel offended enough to "punish" a competent editor. Wow! No! Really, this IP is just hurt for being reverted, just like anyone else, and is after revenge - not like anyone else.

Now it is suggested by some that all accounts, including non-accounts, are to be treated equal. Guess what? They are!. If you make a bad edit as a named user, you'll be reverted – sometimes in a rather derogatory fashion. If just a fraction of the, shall we say "sharply formulated", edit summaries I have encountered directed to named editors would have made it to the admin noticeboard, then I'd be gone, whether I'd be the "victim" or not. The problem would not the "sharply formulated" edit summaries, it would be the intolerable habit of bringing minuscule near-nonsense issues to the admin noticeboard that would be the problem.

If any user is feeling that proper discussion cannot be made in the edit summary, and that simply leaving the comment field empty is too weak, then I support that editor in formulating things sharply. It may deter the IP from making further bad edits. This is good. We aren't interested in the bad future edits. We are interested in future good edits. Sharp reverts prevent the bad future edits and encourage the good future edits. YohanN7 (talk) 12:09, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Sorry for arriving late. (My own laptop has died so I have to use other computers when possible/allowed). I really don't understand why the IP says "I've got better things to do with my life than wiki-lawyering". Well why make such a fuss here then (of all places)? Cuzkatzimhut is not a random idiot editor like me, but a reputable expert in the articles he edits. Nothing he does is offensive or destructive. His dialogue may seem unusual (even to me), but it is not "rude". A number of other editors (some IPs, some registered users) have before taken Cuz as offensive exactly as the above IP has done here. If you can't tolerate his language/behavior you have a very low threshold. All this silly "political correctness" and "treating each other nicely" is never going to happen. If anyone thinks of it, there should be NO topic ban on Cuz, we're lacking valuable editors and some have been driven away just because they were impolite. This pointless thread should be closed a.s.a.p. MŜc2ħεИτlk 16:17, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

  • I don't see any extensive history of Cuzkatzimhut reverting IP edits. It would help if the OP gave some diffs. There are some low quality posts on Talk:Observer effect (physics) from User: and I can understand if Cuzkatzimhut got frustrated with them. But, it's best to stay civil in these situations. (talk) 22:48, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Experiencing Harassment and Stalking at the hands of User:Guy1890[edit]

OP wants Admin to "Make [another editor] stop"; Admin not willing to be made "a laughing stock on this board." There being no other requests or suggestions towards alternative resolution- case closed. (non-admin closure) Muffled Pocketed 13:39, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
OK, closed by me who is an admin and completely uninvolved, if you don't accept the original close. We are not going to give someone "a 30 to 90 day ban" just because you've had an argument with them. ‑ Iridescent 16:24, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Guy1890 has been harassing me for weeks now despite multiple requests on his talk page to tone his behavior down. This is a Conduct Issue and it has not been resolved even after multiple third parties took part in it. I think this user would benefit from a 30 to 90 day ban to take a short vacation from the site to cool off, and a discussion given to him by a neutral wikipedia administrator on his behavior.

He has a long history of incivility.

A sample of his incivility towards me:

"can we move on from this nonsense?"

"brand new editor with little to no prior Wikipedia edits - go push your POV on another website."

"Wikipedia does not exist to push your own, biased Point-of-View (POV)"

He is stalking me on other people's pages, as he points out here when he quotes me on the user page of an editor he has never posted to, but somehow he ended up on that page and quoted me posting on it.

A sample of his incivility towards others:

"go away IP hack editor" in response to "Please do not attack other editors".

"Run along [ anomymous IP editor with no other edits to Wikipedia, ever."

"You can go away now"

" other words, an editor like yourself that has a history of edit warring & Wiki-gamesmanship isn't qualified to be sorting anything like this mess"

I have warned the user 3 times in the past on his page:

  1. May 11
  2. May 12
  3. June 3

I tried to keep this as short and easy to read as possible. I can't keep editing on wikipedia if you don't stop this person from harassing me. Kswikiaccount (talk) 12:46, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

I had a look at the diffs, and while Guy has been a little blunt and mildly gruff, I don't think there's much I would do at this stage other than get his side of the story (I see he has been notified of this thread) and see what I would do from that - if I made any sanctions for "go away" I'd be a laughing stock on this board. The only two comments I would make, which I have made before, is that facts and claims are what are reliable (or not), and saying "'x' is a reliable source" (or not) is usually not very helpful unless it's qualified with which fact is under contention. Secondly, the Democrat primaries have been all over the news for months, so it is not particularly surprising to see brand new editors come along and chip their 2c into how the article should look. I personally think telling somebody who's being incivil to politely stop being incivil is like pouring gasoline on a fire, myself. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:55, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
  • (edit conflict) Like, "Or is it everyone else that is at fault except you, the god?". Does seem as if a) you are pushing a certain non-neutral PoV, and that b) You are either breaching or almost breaching editting restrictions as a commonplace. Just FYI. On edit: and retaliatory for this thread above, which, while opened by another editor, also involved you 'against' Guy1980...? Muffled Pocketed 13:00, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
  • Yes this marks the second user that this person has taken issue with in less than 24 hours, I agree with Fortuna that there is some POV pushing going on. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:20, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
  • This user is stalking and harassing me. Make him stop. Kswikiaccount (talk) 13:21, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
I'm not sure why a non admin user that offered on opinion and then closed this discussion even though it explicitly states "Do not close discussions in which you have offered an opinion".
Kswikiaccount (talk) 15:58, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
(non-admin closure) Probably best for all involved to close this. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 00:07, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It's not an argument, this editors is stalking me, and now a second user is stalking me on the site. Why am I being mocked? How is this is not being taken seriously? I knew you had a problem with sexism, but this is bad. Kswikiaccount (talk) 21:17, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
Just out of curiosity Kswikiaccount, how do you get "sexism" out of anything above? ‑ Iridescent 21:23, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
You say you've been harassed "for weeks". "Weeks" (less than 5) is the total amount of time you've been here. That suggests you've got some things to learn. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 22:13, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Yay, Wikipedia again making a mockery of human decency. Stop explaaaaaaining away sexism with giggles and snorts. No wonder women don't want anything to do with this place if even the most blatantly obvious bigotry gets explained away and excused. (talk) 22:35, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Again, can you actually point out an example of sexism in anything above? As the closer of the thread, I went through every diff linked, and while I can see some snappiness I certainly can't see anything I'd remotely consider sexist; indeed, as best I can tell not a single editor above either discloses their gender or mentions (or even alludes to) anyone else's at any point, other than User:Kswikiaccount assuming User:Guy1890 is a "he". ‑ Iridescent 22:40, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
Note that (talk · contribs) has a grand total of 4 edits - all of them useless. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:05, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
  • Comment - I'd like to first thank whomever closed the above thread for doing so. There has unfortunately been a lot of POV-pushing on the Democratic Party presidential primaries, 2016 page and its talk page for a while (probably too long) now, and the OP of this thread (who has edited under at least a few IP addresses, including this one, besides the one used to make this OP) has unfortunately been one of a few editors poorly attempting to do some of that POV-pushing. I've not seen anyone "harassing", "stalking", or "mocking" the user that posted this OP, but what I have seen is this same editor edit-warring and making a fair amount of disruptive edits...many of which were highlighted above in an AN/I thread that I recently posted in. Obviously, this thread here is a (failed) attempt at retaliation for me "daring" to post in that thread. I am, in fact, male BTW, but this has nothing at all to do with "sexism". Guy1890 (talk) 04:36, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
I feel that this should be closed, and everyone move on (something that has been tried more than once now). If that isn't a viable option though I would recommend at the very least that Kswikiaccount listen to the advice of other editors who are trying to help. It isn't just me who is seeing a pattern develop. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 13:26, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Emarroquin1995 reverting improvements to multiple articles[edit]

(non-admin closure) Editor blocked by Ritchie333 for 48 hours --Cameron11598 (Talk) 01:50, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I've recently made a number of gnoming changes to various articles to bring the formatting closer to the guidance in WP:MOS and fix a few minor errors. User:Emarroquin1995 has taken violent objection to these changes where they affect articles he has contributed to (User_talk:Colonies_Chris/Archive/2016/May#Trolling_.26_Unnecessary_Edits), and he has repeatedly reverted them. I've explained in detail the reason for these changes on his talk page (User_talk:Emarroquin1995#General_improvements); he deleted my explanation and accused me at WP:RVAN of vandalism; this accusation was immediately rejected (see history of Wikipedia:Administrator intervention against vandalism for 8 June at 21:04). He has also reverted User:Wisdom89's reinstatement of my changes to one article (see history of Mob_Rules_Tour). I warned him that if he reverted my edits again I would take action against him, so here I am. Can someone please make clear to him that repeated reversions and hysterical accusations of vandalism are not acceptable behaviour? Colonies Chris (talk)

Just a comment since I've become involved in this scuffle. This goes beyond being merely a content dispute or edit warring, the user has exhibited a rather disharmonious and nasty attitude towards editors who attempt to amend his edits. This can be exemplified by my interactions with this user back in October 2015 [5]. The user constantly ignores attempts to communicate and simply removes sections from his talk page [6]. That's his prerogative, but this coupled with their refusal to use edit summaries makes collaboration nearly impossible. Does this require current admin intervention? Doubtful, but at the very least the user needs to be warned about this sort of behavior.  Wisdom89 talk 16:15, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
I've also gone ahead and notified User:Emarroquin1995 of this discussion.  Wisdom89 talk 16:22, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
Judging by the above diff and these diffs,[7][8][9] Emarroquin1995 has a very severe problem with both civility and assuming good faith towards another editor who is simply following WP:OVERLINK. There is also clear signs of WP:OWNERSHIP with comments like this one. Would suggest a strong warning by an administrator about civility and that edits he disagrees with are not vandalism. I don't think a warning from a non-admin would be impactful. —Farix (t | c) 19:38, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
Indeed and [10] is beyond the pale in terms of incivility, cluelessness, and no personal attacks.  Wisdom89 talk 20:18, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
This editor is clearly WP:NOTHERE, and violating WP:CIVIL. A strong (level 4) warning by an admin, making it clear that he will be blocked if he continues this, might work. ThePlatypusofDoom (Talk) 21:06, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Hey Farix, I wasn't doing anything wrong. They reported me just to spite me. I've been on Wikipedia for a long time, and I haven't had any problem with anybody Wikipedia ever except with Wisdom & Colonies Chris, and this whole thing started because Colonies Chris made unnecessary edits, which he claims are general improvements, and he couldn't sound more arrogant saying that itself, but I really don't see how they're since he deleted links to other Wikipedia pages like for cities, countries, etc. that didn't need to be deleted, & I don't see why it wouldn't hurt just to keep them. Overall, I've seen his edits, and they're completely unnecessary, after he edited them the first, I just reverted it. No problem. Plus, the only reason why I found out about it is because I went to go edit the pages myself just to correct some misinformation as well as to add information that wasn't already there, then all of a sudden, I see the pages are different, and that, when I went to go edit them, I ended up getting into that edit conflict, so that's how I found out about the problem. Then all of sudden, the next day, I see that they went back to the way he had edited to them, and then I went to go revert it again, and then the day after that, I saw they were different again, and it just kept going on & on. Then I found it was Colonies Chris that was doing, and quite frankly, it was getting really annoying, so I told him that he needed to stop otherwise I'll have him reported, so then I put them back to the way they were before, and they were like that for a week. Nothing happened. Then after a week, I saw that they had been edited to the liking of Colonies Chris, so I reported him for vandalism and I let him know that he was reported on his talk page. Then all of a sudden, I get messages & notifications saying I've been reported & that basically I'm the problem because I'm apparently trolling him, even though he's trolling me if anything, considering weirdly enough, he's only doing on pages that I either created or contributed to. I've never had this type of "edit-warring" problem with anybody except for him. Then I also saw that this Wisdom guy went along with Colonies Chris trying to further valid his report just to get rid out of spite. I'll admit since I have nothing to hide, I've had a previous run-in with Wisdom since I had created some Rush tour pages & I was still in the middle of creating some & then he tried to have my pages deleted since he claimed they were unnotable & that they had been previously deleted so they apparently no right to be on Wikipedia, so the. I told him, he can contest to the pages all he wants, but that he doesn't speak for all of Wikipedia, and he even challenged me by asking why I thought the pages the pages should stay, & believe me, I gave my reasons on the talk page & not to blow my own horn, but they were valid reasons. Furthermore, I told Wisdom if he didn't like the pages, that should've just left them alone & if he didn't like them, then that's his problem, not mine, and it wasn't like I was trying to hurt anybody. I just wanted to create these pages for the fans, which I'm still doing. However, he didn't listen, and he deleted the pages anyway, since he's ignorant. Now he's trying to get back at me for whatever the reason. I don't know I'm not him, and it doesn't make any sense considering he won that battle since it wouldn't revert the deletions, and that information has been long lost & I'm still trying to find what's been lost. Overall, I haven't had any problem with anybody else on Wikipedia except with those 2 immature little punks, and I'm not trying to be insulting. I'm just being honest, and quite honestly, I have 0 respect & tolerance for jerks who go ahead & do whatever they want even if it means messing with other people's stuff. To be even more honest, & again, not trying to blow my own horn or anything, but I'm a nice, respectful, civilized person who doesn't want to hurt anybody, who wants to be left alone, & just keeps to himself, but when it comes to people like Wisdom & Colonies Chris, I'm not going to nice & respectful towards them & it's people who make my job of being nice & respectful. Like I said before, I don't like bullies &/or scumbags who think & act like they could do whatever they want, even if it means being a jerk to other people like me in general, but in this case, I especially don't like the ones who think & act like it's okay to vandalize other people's stuff. Overall, I told them multiple times to leave me alone, & they refuse, so please help me by keeping these guys away from me, and seriously, I'm not the problem, they are. I know it's 2 against 1, which doesn't look good for me, but again, I wouldn't make any of this stuff up, & why would I? So please help me.

Wow... that's a lot of ampersands. ThePlatypusofDoom (Talk) 21:38, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
Also the largest wall of text that I've seen in a couple weeks. WP:WALLS. ThePlatypusofDoom (Talk) 21:41, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
Unfortunately, your wall of text merely bolsters the points already made in this thread and does little to help your case. My advice to you is to quit making long laborious posts that cry foul and think long and hard about whether you actually have the temperament to edit Wikipedia.  Wisdom89 talk 21:45, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
If you are referring to edits such as these[11][12][13], they are clearly within the bounds of editing AND follows guidelines, such as WP:OVERLINK, WP:NOPIPE, and WP:MOS. However, your own comments show that you believe that you "own" these articles and can dictate which guidelines apply. On top of that, you personally attacked Colonies Chris, erroneously called his edits vandalism when they were clearly not, and generally acted in a hostile manner from the very beginning. This behavior is completely unacceptable on Wikipedia. —Farix (t | c) 21:46, 9 June 2016 (UTC)
Issued a 3RR warning to Emarroquin1995 for edit warring on Appetite for Destruction Tour (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views).[14]Farix (t | c) 21:57, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

All I see is "revert", "revert", "revert". I've given them 48 hours to calm down and take in what WP:AGF means Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 22:13, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

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User Jack Sebastian[edit]

As Boris said, sometimes people get irritated and say stuff they probably shouldn't. Editor got annoyed, shot his mouth off, calmed down and apologised. Film at 11. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 12:19, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
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I would like for an admin to take a look at this personal attack and false accusation by Jack Sebastian (talk · contribs). For the backstory, you can see Talk:Natalie Portman#RfC: Is the language biased?, followed immediately by a second RfC after the first one didn't go his way. Thanks. Sundayclose (talk) 01:26, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

The comment was borne out of Sundayclose wiki-stalking me to another person's talk page where I asked for advice on how to recraft an RfC (the person being asked was the RfC closer). Getting followed around by someone who you know doesn't like you is downright fucking creepy, and by someone with an ax to grind is doubly so. If Sundayclose is going to be upset at my language, perhaps the user might try avoiding replying to my edits in pages where they don't need to. In short, Sundayclose needs to stop adding all the drama-queen nonsense. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 01:45, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
And I'd point out the factual errors of Sundayclose's assessment of the RfC and its follow-up, but - as has been noted here ad infinitum - this area isn't for content issues. It bore mentioning so that folk weren't swayed by the semantic game the user just tried - though (s)he's certainly worked his/her ass off to muddy the waters at the RfC. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 01:48, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
I left a message on the same editor's talk page where Jack Sebastian left a comment because that editor closed the RfC we were both involved in. If leaving one message on one talk page where Jack Sebastian commented is "wikistalking", I'm guilty as charged. In any event, there's also the issue of Jack telling me to fuck off. And the baiting for an argument with personal attacks continues here. Sundayclose (talk) 01:57, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Now, knowing that they can check such things, are you actually claiming that you do not watchlist my page or visit my edits? A simple yes or no will suffice. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 02:01, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
No, even though there is no policy against watching talk pages or watching others' edits, and it happens quite often on Wikipedia. There is, however, a policy against personal attacks. Sundayclose (talk) 02:06, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Sundayclose, you know what wiki-stalking is, right? Because I am getting the impression (from your response) that you might not be actually aware of what that entails. Following my edits is fine, until you attack me through them. You and I don't like each other. You know this. So why provoke a negative response? I asked you to stop stalking me. Instead of respecting my clearly stated wishes, your immediate response is ignore that request, run here, and demonstrate more passive aggressive behavior. You cannot expect the rest of us to be oblivious to your little game. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 03:12, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Since when was telling someone to fuck off a personal attack, in any case? Muffled Pocketed 02:19, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
It ain't. It's a crude way of saying "Get out of my sight." It's perhaps uncivil, depending on the provocation it's said in response to, but it's not a personal attack. Neither would "Your edit is fucking useless", where "fucking" is used as an intensifier. "You're a fuckwad" would be a personal attack. BMK (talk) 02:40, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
It was crude, and I let my temper at being hounded get the better of me. It wasn't an article; it was someone's talk page, and the comment they were responding had nothing to to do with them. They just "happened" to be around and posted a snipey little snippet. Maybe I should have just let it go, but my annoyance at the user's manipulative behaviorI got under my skin a bit. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 03:12, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Yes, sometimes people get irritated and say stuff they probably shouldn't. Neither of you is exactly covering yourself in glory here, so how about you agree to just drop it and move along before things get worse? Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 03:42, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

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Persistent Disruptive Promotional Editing at University of Law by User:Legrepunalycou[edit]

Subject blocked for 37 hours. (non-admin closure) Omni Flames (talk) 07:41, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
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Moved from WP:AN

This user has continued to add promotional material to this article, going against talk page consensus and reaching the point of disruptive editing. Reaganomics88 (talk) 19:24, 9 June 2016 (UTC)

Note: I have corrected the OP's failure to notify Legrepunalycou as is required. — JJMC89(T·C) 03:05, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, the set up at the user's main page is the info about the University of Law. I'd estimate that most if not all of the edits are with regards to the school. It seems to be an single-purpose account, and I am not seeing the required neutrality necessary. - Jack Sebastian (talk) 03:18, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Yep, block and close, please someone. Now get this rig outta here. Muffled Pocketed 03:21, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Blocked for 37 hours (it will expire at 5PM British Summer Time, if I calculated correctly) with explanation at the user's talk. Reaganomics88, please remember to provide diffs or other evidence in the future; WP:WIAPA specifies that this kind of allegation, made without evidence, is considered a personal attack. On a more mundane level, it's easier for reviewing admins to block someone if the evidence is just one click away, so you're more likely to get a quick response that way. Nyttend (talk) 04:00, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Thank you, Nyttend. We need more eyes on this article. This is becoming a massive pain. The current editor under consideration is but the latest of many similar ones. This article is one of a suite of articles on for-profit education businesses owned by Global University Systems and on the personnel of its various institutions. Apart from Global University Systems, which I created to make clear the obfuscation which the company perpetrates concerning which institutions it actually owns and controls (as opposed to "educational partners"), they have all been created and/or heavily edited by editors with a clear conflict of interest. Sometimes declared (2 editors), but far more often undeclared but blindingly obvious from the content and pattern of editing and slips like this one on Commons. There is also a considerable history of sockpuppetry related to this suite of articles and more background at the multi-editor discussion at Talk:London College of Contemporary Arts (owned by the same company). In a word, ugh. Voceditenore (talk) 07:24, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

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Wtshymanski reverting good faith IP edits - again[edit]

Blocked one month; breach of editing-restrictions by MSGJ Muffled Pocketed 14:25, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
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An IP editor makes this good faith edit to the article Germanium. I have to assume that it is a good faith edit because although no edit summary was left, the deleted claim is not mentioned in the provided reference.

Wtshymanski, in spite of a recent warning and an editing block, has reverted the edit in violation of his editing restriction (not to revert any edits from IP address editors).

In another equally recent example. A good faith addition from an IP editor. Another bad faith reversion from Wtshymanski.

Not only are these a violation of that restriction, but they must count as an unambiguous defiance of his editing restriction and the very ethos of Wikipedia (the encyclopedia anyone can edit). If these continued harrassments of IP address editors are not someone who is WP:NOTHERE to co-operate in building an encyclopedia then what is? (talk) 13:36, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Restriction for Wtshymanski is logged here if anyone wants to know. Only in death does duty end (talk) 14:06, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
I have reblocked, escalating the duration from the previous block — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:22, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

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Closed means closed, per above.(non-admin closure) Montanabw(talk) 03:01, 2 July 2016 (UTC)
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What are admins going to do when the block expires and the behaviour continues? DanBCDanBC (talk) 09:34, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
The threatened action is for applying blocks of increasing duration. At some point, patience will be lost and an indefinite block will be applied. My personal view, for what it is worth, is that as this is the second block for violating the editing restriction is that the indefinite block should be applied at the next violation. After all, as I stated above, it is an unambiguous statement of having no intention of complying or of allowing IP address editors to make their contributions. (talk) 11:58, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

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Is this promotional?[edit]

A brand spanking new editor is adding a link to Avison Young, the leasing agent for the building 1501 Broadway, to the external links section of the article. I believe that this is promotional, since it does not provide our readers with any additional information about the subject, thus violating both WP:PROMO and WP:EL. The editor persists in restoring the edit to the article. Am I wrong in my estimation of the quality of this link? BMK (talk) 03:26, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

The front page of the building's website has a section talking about Avison Young, so it's not "mere" spam. Lacking an official website for the building, I would say that we should include Avison Young, since it's apparently the owner's website, but WP:ELMINOFFICIAL reminds us that multiple official websites shouldn't be included unless all of them provide unique and important-to-the-reader information, and since Avison Young is focused on leasing space and doesn't provide much other information, it's probably not helpful. So basically, I'd say that it's more of a mundane thing, an item that could be included but probably should be excluded. However, I don't understand the point of having a link to Newmark Grubb Knight Frank, so your removal of it is what I'd call despamming. Nyttend (talk) 04:07, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

User circumventing block again[edit]

User Mikequfv was blocked for his disruptive editing last month. He broke his first block and then, as a result, had his block length increased to "indefinite" and had the IP that he used to circumvent the original block, blocked as well. (Reports are here and here.) Since the original two blocks, there have been edits from other IPs (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) that match his style of editing and thus seem to be him. Today there has been a renewed effort to push his changes on articles where he's previously made attempts that were reverted, at Victoria, BC and Arica with this IP. Air.light (talk) 03:27, 7 June 2016 (UTC)

Please see Wikipedia:Sockpuppet investigations/Mikequfv. Ivanvector 🍁 (talk) 17:46, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

A defiant IP![edit]

Hi there. some days ago, I had an argument in Volleyball at the 2016 Summer Olympics – Men's qualification with two other guys about adding some pictures. finally [an admin] engaged the argument and blocked the article and ordered us to talk about the pictures. So I started a polling in the talk page and invited the two others to make an agreement. At the end of the polling two of us admitted to add two of the pictures, but the IP threated to remove the pictures (against order of the admin to act on result of polling).

Unfortunately, the admin is on vacation and can't help us. So I ask you to make a decision about the IP and our pictures. Thank you.Sarbaze naja (talk) 11:06, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Defiant? Please see WP:IPHUMAN. Muffled Pocketed 11:09, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
I just looked at the page.
So we have two editors who are willing to edit war to get their way, one of whom tries to get admins to support his side in a clear content dispute, and really no substantive discussion on the article talk page about whether there should be images at all and whether they should all be of the Iran team. :( --Guy Macon (talk) 12:34, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Another defiant IP![edit]

Unrelated (but fitting the title) there is some IP that for years and years has been engaged in one hell of a Lamest Edit War, that ranges back to 2011 regarding the Lost episode "Because You Left". By its very definition the IP's number floats, but the last ones have been consistent. Don't know what to do, given the page was already semi-protected once exactly to stop this stupid behavior. igordebraga 17:45, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

If this has been going on for five years, indefinite semi-protection is called for. ←Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 23:09, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Compromised account[edit]

Account blocked for a period of a week by HighInBC. (non-admin closure) Omni Flames (talk) 11:34, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
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Maybe the account In Citer has been compromised. He has recently made bizarre edits and received a warning from Doug Weller. Tgeorgescu (talk) 23:59, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

I am a little surprised that this was given a warning instead of a block. The user continued being disruptive after the warning and I have given a 1 week block which I think was generous. I see no reason to think the account is compromised, this sort of hateful speech seems to be in fashion. HighInBC Need help? {{ping|HighInBC}} 00:04, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
You're right, I should have blocked at once. It was his clean block record that deterred me. At the time I hadn't seen his statement of article ownership either. I did tell him that he might be banned from articles dealing with religion, which could be done as a requirement for an unblock from an indefinite block. 06:16, 11 June 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Doug Weller (talkcontribs)

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Page blocked & tagged edits removed for no reason. (T._P._Lahane)[edit]

(non-admin closure) User:Soundofthesea blockedFAMASFREENODE (talk) 12:25, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
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T. P. Lahane has been bocked by: User:Diannaa

Everything that was removed from the page was tagged & sourced from newspaper articles. No reason was given for the block. Does she/he down wikipedia ?

Please remove this block. And let truth & justice prevail. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Soundofthesea (talkcontribs) 09:16, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

Please inform users you report here, as it states at the top of the page - I've done this for you now -- samtar talk or stalk 09:21, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
  • Just 2 lines of the entire page were cut & pasted from a newspaper called "Mumbai Mirror". And they have been removed. If anything else looks questionable I humbly request User:Diannaa to talk with me before taking unilateral steps. I am a reasonable guy who has a masters degree in logic. Please see this video User:Soundofthesea
As you've been told by multiple users and admins, the content removed violated copyright, the edits are NOT from a neutral POV and the source given was not reliable. RickinBaltimore (talk) 12:27, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
The edit history of that page is appalling. I don't think I've ever seen an article with that many revdels before. Blackmane (talk) 16:15, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Every edit except 4 from April 7 on has been revdelled. That's just insane. GABgab 16:45, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Take a look at the page history of Diana, Princess of Wales and see how many revdeled edits are there (Every edit from 14 April 2012 to 31 January 2016 is revdeled because of copyright violations). —MRD2014 T C 17:18, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
GAB, what are you saying is "insane"? The fact that someone keeps coming back and repeatedly making the copyright infringements despite knowing that they will just be reverted? Or the fact that an administrator removed the copyright infringing content from public view? If you mean the first of those, then I agree, but there are a lot of insane people who spend a lot of time doing pointless things on Wikipedia. The editor who uses the pseudonym "JamesBWatson" (talk) 21:28, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
 Note:Soundofthesea has been blocked for WP:NOTHERE by @JamesBWatson: --Cameron11598 (Talk) 21:21, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
I think I see another possible misunderstanding of how revision deletion works - so for clarity, revision deletion does not remove content. The copyright infringements were removed manually as a normal edit, and then every revision that contained those infringements was hidden from view - from the revision that first contained them to the final revision before they were removed. Any changes made in those revisions which were not part of the copyright violations have not been removed and are still in the current revision. As an example, I could choose any article and rev-delete every single past revision, and that would not remove a single word from the current article. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 23:06, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
But would that mean that an editor could not see who had made a particular change in an article, and when? RolandR (talk) 23:17, 10 June 2016 (UTC)
Indeed - the past revisions could not be compared to see what change was made and when. If it is only the content that needs to be hidden, then the editor and edit summary (including the section name if applicable) would still be visible, so that might provide some clue. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 23:41, 10 June 2016 (UTC)

──────────────────── Unsuprisingly there is socking, webhost/proxy use etc. at play here. I've semi-protected the article for a couple of weeks. Not sure if the most recent edit (which I reverted) has the same copyvio issues, someone more familiar with the history may want to check. --Jezebel's Ponyobons mots 00:19, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

It was identical to one of the sections removed from previously hidden revisions, so I've done the same again. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 08:37, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

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Brenda Allison[edit]

Blocked indefinitely by Nyttend (non-admin closure) Muffled Pocketed 12:10, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
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Ankhsn (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log)

This user has a long history of trying to create an article Brenda Allison (it has been deleted loads of times on Wikipedia because she is not notable). All this user does is add the name Brenda Allison to articles, or add information about this person on the articles Human magnetism and Nefertiti.

As of June 2016, this is still going on [15], this user has been doing this on the human magnetism article since September, 2015. This user has been blocked in the past in February (check their talk-page, after they were blocked they claimed that Wikipedia is racist because they are black [16]). Interestingly when I google search the name "Brenda Allison", a twitter page comes up which makes this same unfounded statement [17], Ankhsn recently tried to insert details about Brenda on the Nefertiti article which matches what is discussed on this twitter [18]. This user is here to promote herself, not build an encyclopedia. Given the fact they seem to have had countless warnings I am just interested if an admin will look into this or not. HealthyGirl (talk) 11:52, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

If you actually check this users disruptive editing since the 5 June [19] on the Nefertiti article, I am amazed that this user was never blocked. HealthyGirl (talk) 12:00, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

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Prous Science[edit]

Both accounts blocked as  Confirmed socks.--Bbb23 (talk) 20:03, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
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Two SPA editors Josepdavidana (talk · contribs) (since 19 April) and the newly-created Janajuliapuig (talk · contribs) have recently been contributing to this article by unexplained edits adding large chunks of copyright text, badly translated newspaper articles, and at the same time removing sourced content (and sometimes categories etc). I've now reverted 3 times today so am backing off, but perhaps an admin could have a look. PamD 15:31, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

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Help needed on MfD[edit]

(non-admin closure) Never mind. BMK (talk) 02:40, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
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Would someone please create for me the proper pages to nominate User:Stemoc's user page for MfD? The instructions there aren't working for me, as I seem to be stuck in a loop. The reasons are that I believe the Trump banner on the page violates WP:POLEMIC and WP:UP#Promo. Thanks, BMK (talk) 02:25, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Never mind, I managed to figure it out, but those instructions really need to be fixed. Why don't we have a script that does all that stuff for you? Commons has one to nominate images for deletion. BMK (talk) 02:40, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

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NeilN deleted that nazi's userpage, and the image has been removed from Makeamericagr8again's userpage. The MfD for User:Stemoc can be found at Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:Stemoc. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 03:49, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
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Can someone please block User:SwagLlama420 and remove his userpage. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 03:11, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

@Beyond My Ken: You should see User:SwagLlama420... The MFD you started seems to be broken. And you forgot about User:Makeamericagr8again. The Quixotic Potato (talk) 03:16, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

I have deleted SwagLlama420's user page as the references to Nazism were clearly out of line. Makeamericagr8again's page probably falls afoul of WP:NOTWEBHOST but I'd like to see discussion/a second opinion on that. --NeilN talk to me 03:25, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
I would suggest deletion of User:Makeamericagr8again. We generally allow limited expressions of political affiliation to be included on a userpage, unless the information is highly offensive. However, this entire userpage is a political polemic, which is not at all permissible. DavidLeighEllis (talk) 03:38, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
Also, not sure if relevant or not, but the account has made extremely limited contributions since its inception. Not counting the ones made to their own userpage I think I counted 2-3 minor contributions total. It actually appears that the account was made simply for political purposes. Mr rnddude (talk) 03:44, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

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I want an interaction ban imposed on GentleCollapse16. He keeps going to articles I contribute significantly to or have before and absolutely shitting on my contributions. This has been on-going for a while and I have no idea how it got started or how back it goes, but these are just a few recent examples of the editor's belligerence and hostility toward me:

  • Deriding my bringing Maxinquaye to featured-article status; in response to a recent addition to the article, he posted comments at the article's talk page, in the section of an archived RfC, deriding my contributions and attacking me ([20], [21], [22]). The RfC that was meant to address a past complaint of his has expired and been considered "obsolete" in its closing, yet the editor has not moved on.
  • Removing a paragraph I added last month to Miles Davis (03:00, 11 June 2016 --> 03:08, 11 June 2016); part of his rationale is an attack toward me and comes off the heels of me reverting a recent edit of theirs at the first article listed in this post.

Just to note, I reported a previous incident instigated by the editor at ANI and nothing was done in response to it ([26]); @Boing! said Zebedee:, @Diannaa:? Dan56 (talk) 17:40, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

  • I just suggested to Dan56, rather kindly I think, for a personal attack on GentleCollapse (actually, two); they're edit warring over there somewhere over something insignificant. Dan said I should look here, so here I am. It is clear to me that some of the comments that GentleCollapse made are unacceptable (like this--WTF?) It is also clear to me that these two feed off each other. Here is GentleCollapse being a total jerk to Dan56, after Dan56 himself started pushing the point in an all-too personal way.

    This report is ancient; I think I know why no one looked at it. Dan, you've been warned about certain types of comments before, and you have a reputation as an editor who lashes out sometimes. (I don't know about your opponent: I presume nothing.) Moreover, no one wants to enforce two-way iBans, and that's the second I say that today. However, maybe that could be a solution. Or some kind of strict civility parole, where the first a-holish comment gets a block.

    You may have already left a snide remark on your talk page while I was going through these edits and typing this up; I hope you realize that I just spent fourteen minutes of my life on this. I'll end by pinging the two admins you pinged before. @Boing! said Zebedee:, @Diannaa:. Drmies (talk) 01:25, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

Requesting a talk page interaction ban[edit]

I am asking for an interaction ban between myself and Jytdog. I am asking that he not post any messages on my talk pages; my two usernames are: Bfpage and Barbara (WVS). The second account was created to allow WikiEd and my supervisor at the University of Pittsburgh to track my edits.

Here are the messages that he has left on my talk page(s) from the most recent to the first:

1., 2., 3., 4., 5., 6., 7., 8., 9., 10., 11., 12., 13., 14., 15., and 16. The diffs are many but a short history might be helpful. The first few interactions had to do with my editing of the Sexism article when he believed I was part of a conspiracy of men dedicated to gender parity. He questioned my motives, my gender, and other personal information that I provided to him to assure him that I really was who I said I was.

The other diffs are related to a discussion about a 3-day block placed upon me by Kevin Gorman. I am sure he would provide information regarding my block if he is available.

Administrator Kevin Gorman posted the following on the top of my talk page after he read the messages that were being posted by Jytdog and others.

As a result of Jytdog,s discourteous, accusatory, discourteous, disruptive and contentious talk page posts, I feel he is “following me around”, hounding, and stalkingme. I feel personally attacked. His uncivility has negatively impacted my own enjoyment of editing. I believe that the unnecessary emotional distress caused by his posts has had a negative effect on the encyclopedia since it impacts my concentration in creating content. His messages and edit summaries are distracting from the work I do on building an encyclopedia. Time I could spend editing has been taken up with dealing with his distressing talk page messages.WP:HOUND.

I remain unaware of any specific communication between Jytdog and administrator Kevin Gorman because for a time I was relieved to see that the harassment had ended. Now uncivil edit summaries by Jytdog continue to increase and he is back on my talk page. Though I’ve not done the math or examined the editor interaction log, it also seems as if he shows up relatively quickly after some of my edits. I am only asking for an interaction ban where he would not be able to post on my talk page. I don’t post on his talk page anyway since I thought that might reduce the tension that exists. Thank you for your kind attention on this matter. I will contact Jytdog on his talk page.

Best Regards and thank you for your kind attention,

  Bfpage |leave a message  18:12, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
That's a helluva lot of words. Did you expend any on notifying the parties you have mentioned...? Muffled Pocketed 18:27, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
Yes, Jytdog and Kevin Gorman were notified.   Bfpage |leave a message  19:17, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
Just for fun! I looked at all Barbara's diffs above. What I found was Jytdog giving Barbara good advice, which has clearly been ignored by Barbara. There are a number of things I could suggest, but perhaps the simplest is to ask Jytdog to not post on your talk page any further. He wont post on your talk page any further, except of course if policy requires him to. Simples. -Roxy the dog of Doom™ woof 18:44, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
Jytdog was asked to not post on my talk page and honored that request for a while. I would like a more formal discussion with other editors. Good advice can be supplied with different words than were used for me.   Bfpage |leave a message  19:17, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

As someone mentioned your post has a lot of words, and more to the point 16(!) diffs. It would help the rest of us get a handle on the situation if you distill this down to the few diffs that are most relevant (not more than 3 or 4). Shock Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 19:27, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

  • The background. When Bfpage first arrived here, she ( and I never thought she was a man) was editing per the mens rights agenda and was hounding User:Flyer22 in icky ways like thanking people who were trashing Flyer, and was sanctioned for that, per this ANI thread. I believe the comment I made that prompted this over-reactive posting was this which is self-explanatory and was reacting to a mild form (a mild form) of the kind of behavior that she were sanctioned for originally (The editor on whose page Bfpage posted is one with whom I have been in disputes with). Bfpage, if you don't want reminders, don't make trouble. You said you were going to leave that behavior behind. There is no need for any kind of i-ban; we rarely interact. There is a need for Bfpage to just knock off the baloney. Jytdog (talk) 19:35, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
  • Jytdog and I differ on how to deal with certain problematic editors, such as probable sockpuppets (I'm not making any allegation here), but that's because I tend to take a blunt and direct approach, and he prefers to deal with such editors in a much more gentle manner. Because of this, I would be very surprised to find Jytdog being "discourteous, accusatory, discourteous, disruptive and contentious", since my experience is that he is always exactly the opposite. I'm going to delve into Bfpage's diffs now, and if I find that they are not clear examples of such behavior, I shall probably return with a recommendation of a WP:BOOMERANG. BMK (talk) 19:37, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
  • Well, I have laboriously gone through the 16 edits provided by Bfpage - the oldest of which dates from a year and a half ago! - and, as expected, found nothing there to back up their contention that Jytdog has been "discourteous, accusatory, discourteous, disruptive and contentious". I do see, however, evidence that Bfpage has exhibited some of these behaviors. (If I am remembering correctly, wasn't there a brouhaha a while back about this editor, who presented herself as female, but posted strongly in favor of men's rights, raising suspicion that the reported gender was a smokescreen?) If Bfpage does not want Jytdog to post on their talk pages, Jytdog should honor that ban, but then Bfpage should avoid situations in which they come into conflict with Jytdog. I don't think that a BOOMERANG for Bfpage is in order at the moment, despite the misrepresentation inherent in this report, but I do recommend that should they make another report against any editor without providing true supporting evidence, then a sanction of some sort should be levied on them. BMK (talk) 19:50, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
  • Oh, and in case it wasn't clear from the above, an I-BAN is totally unnecessary, pure overkill. BMK (talk) 19:52, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
Thank you for your responses and the recommendation that Jytdog not post messages to my talk page. The most recent post to my talk page was not mild. I do not consider my work with another skilled and excellent editor where we were (are) improving content to be trolling. The fact that Jytdog has had disputes with this same editor is/was unknown to me. Since I don't follow his editing, it is impossible for me to know with whom he has had conflicts. I can only know about his conflicts with other editors by checking the standing interaction bans and noticing if he has any there. My request was not to rehash old drama, but to help deflect the possibility of future drama. I already avoid situations where we come into conflict. His edits always follow mine. (no more diffs for me). I am also sensing my incredible distress and uncomfortable-ness with what I perceive as hound-like behavior to be irrelevant to those commenting here. What misrepresentation can be in the expression of how an editor has been negatively affected by the postings on their talk page? We both edit in project medicine and therefore, for my purposes alone, what would a valid 'report' look like-one that might result in sanctions such as blocking me? Certainly, this is something I would like to avoid. I would also like more time before this discussion is closed for Kevin Gorman and others to respond.
Best Regards,   Bfpage |leave a message  23:40, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

User talk:LeonRaper[edit]

Can we remove his TP access already? He is constantly spamming it with nonsense. TJH2018talk 23:32, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Have you notified the editor on their talk page? Check that. Nakon 23:33, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
Please list this at WP:RFP. Nakon 23:36, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
I'll keep an eye on this [27] --NeilN talk to me 23:50, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
Thanks for checking on this. Nakon 23:56, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

@TJH2018: Simply remove the user's talk page from your watch list. Tiderolls 23:52, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Requesting Two-Way IBAN[edit]

I am requesting that a two-way IBAN be enacted for User:ScrapIronIV and myself. In the past few months, there has been a significant amount of conflict on both ends, and though I do not get along with ScrapIron or even like him, I do acknowledge that he, like myself, is very useful to the Wikipedian community in several ways. So, rather than asking that he be blocked, or asking that I be blocked (which would be a little ridiculous), I feel an interaction ban is necessary to stop the conflict between us. I consider the main problem to be that he has recently (and remotely) reverted my edits without a clear reason why, other than that I made them. He also made this change[28] in my userspace earlier today, which I found to be highly contentious, unnecessary, and ridiculous. Since when do users need to source personal information about themselves or where they live? As if I would cite a source revealing my home address on a public level... So, in summary, I ask for this not to win a conflict or defeat an enemy, in fact, I cite peace as my main reason. I no longer want to be involved in conflicts while trying to edit my userspace or the mainspace with any users, and I feel that this action, originally recommended by User:Ian.thomson, is necessary. Thank you, and happy editing. ~Lord Laitinen~ (talk) 07:48, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

I'd say I suggested rather than recommended. I will note that both of them could spend all day trying to dig up dirt on each other but I haven't really seen enough to go "ok, that's it, I'm blocking one of you" (though I have not cared to sift through the mounds that both could dig up). I'm not really gonna discuss this much more than what I just said because of exams (starting another one right now). Ian.thomson (talk) 08:23, 8 June 2016 (UTC)
I restored this from the archive because the situation was not yet resolved. I ask that nobody tries to archive it again until a response is given. Thank you, and happy editing! ~Lord Laitinen~ (talk) 00:49, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
  • @Lord Laitinen: You know, the admin corps are extremely bad at enforcing mutual IBANs. Many IBAN-violations are so blurry that if ScrapIronIV violated it and you reported them, you would potentially face sanctions for the action of reporting them. If one were imposed, chances are that either (a) neither of you is being intentionally disruptive, and all you needed was to be sternly told to go your separate ways, so the IBAN was unnecessary, or (b) whichever one of you is intentionally antagonizing the other will find some way to game the system and violate the IBAN without actually doing so in a manner that will bring sanctions down on them, at least in the short term. Unless the dispute between the two of you has caused the community an unbelievable amount of hassle, I think imposing an IBAN would be a bad idea in general, and requesting one for yourself is not going to end well. If ScrapIronIV and you are both amenable to staying the hell away from each other, then you should just do that; if one of you wants an IBAN and the other does not, then in my experience this means that the one who wants the IBAN intends to use the IBAN as protection against sanctions for disruptive editing. I am not implying that the latter is the case, mind you; I would need to hear your response to the advice I am giving you, and ScrapIronIV's opinion on the matter, first. Hijiri 88 (やや) 03:10, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
I was acting as if one was imposed already. I did not mention or "stalk" the editor in question, until I did the former here on this page. The user reverted an edit I made in my userspace, which bothered me, but as long as I am able to keep reverting him myself, I suppose an IBAN is unnecessary. I hope the IBAN policy can be re-written in the future to make it more effective. Thanks, anyway. ~Lord Laitinen~ (talk) 03:22, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
Then you should wait for this thread, which is already too bloated for any serious outside input, to get archived, see if the problem continues, and if it does then request a one-way sanction against them. Please always bear in mind this simple rule: IBANs suck, and unless you have a really, really good reason for doing so, never request that one be placed on you. Hijiri 88 (やや) 05:10, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
Wait, don't wait. Just re-archive it yourself, since you removed it from the archive and the only one to respond since was me. Hijiri 88 (やや) 05:13, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
  • Couple of thoughts. User:ScrapIronIV, this edit to Lord Laitinen's userspace is just petty and disruptive, and in my view if you do something like that again your should get blocked to prevent further disruption. Do you hear that this was very bad judgement on your part? And User:Lord Laitinen I do not see the value to the community of the userbox that ScrapIronIV vandalized, and I question the wisdom of posting that level of personal information about yourself in Wikipedia. You should take that down as userpages are not a personal webhosts per WP:USERPAGE and if I were you I would have that revdelled to protect your privacy. Jytdog (talk) 22:32, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

@Jytdog and ScrapIronIV: I agree about removing that user sub-page, and will request to have it deleted soon. It does not really serve a purpose anymore, as anyone can see the photos in the Kenosha article. However, it was still wrong for the user in question to have committed a bad faith edit, which I can confidently say I have never intentionally and thoughtfully done Wikipedia at any time. I ask that you leave me be (I shall do the same), and if not, I will ask Jytdog to ban or block you. I mean not to threaten or coerce you to "attack" me further, I am simply telling you that I am sick of being bothered and bullied by you, and will not stand for it any longer. I truly hope this conflict ends here today, and after a 24-hour response period passes, I will re-archive this entry. Thank you, happy editing, go with God. ~Lord Laitinen~ (talk) 23:22, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

That's great that you will get rid of that page. Per your promise to disengage from the other user, it does you no good to be referring to what they did. You brought it here now let us deal with it. The best thing for each of you and the community is to steer clear of each other. Jytdog (talk) 23:23, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
I concur, and I thank you once again. I will be in touch if any serious situation arises. ~Lord Laitinen~ (talk) 03:12, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

IP's promotion of "Freddy Maguire"[edit]

Not an immediately helpful usertalk comment, but not a legal threat. -- Euryalus (talk) 11:02, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
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This IP, User talk: has made this edit [29] about Freddy Maguire. However, after reverting his edit, this IP seems to have said on my user talk saying I will receive a "strongly worded letter", which seems to be a euphemism for a legal threat. This is the diff of the message on my talk page: [30]. TheCoffeeAddict talk|contribs 07:23, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

I have dropped a note on their talk page, telling them they are editing in the wrong place and will have better luck submitting via WP:AFC. I don't fancy their chances of creating something that doesn't get deleted per A7 / G11, but it will at least stop them getting blocked. Ritchie333 (talk) (cont) 07:42, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
A "strongly worded letter" is not a euphemism for a legal threat.
It is a trope that means something like: "I can't really do anything about it except express my displeasure".
Hooligan: "I am gonna kick ur face in!"
Nerd: "If you touch me, I will... ehm... send you a Strongly Worded Letter!"
This phrase has turned into a meme. [31] [32] [33] [34] [35] [36]
If you do receive a legal threat then please report it here so the IP can be blocked per WP:NLT, but for now I think this can be closed.
The Quixotic Potato (talk) 13:31, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

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Bizarre happenings at Marcus & Martinus[edit]

For the last 24 hours this article has been repeatedly vandalised by a series of IPs and red-linked SPAs to produce this nonsense, which is arguably also a serious BLP violation in addition to being a blatant hoax. It needs more eyes. Voceditenore (talk) 08:55, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Or semi protection. That should work equally well, don't you think? :) TomStar81 (Talk) 09:04, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
Thank you, Tom! I wasn't sure how long the vandalism had to go on for to list it at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection and thought this might be faster. And... it was :) Best, Voceditenore (talk) 09:27, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
@Voceditenore: Your welcome. Also, as an FYI, you can post at the request for page protection page as soon as it becomes obvious that this is not a case of drive by vandalism. Alternatively, you can post here as well to get a quicker reaction if its warranted. Since this is a biography articles the rules are a little different owing to the need to protect the article from potentially damaging information, so we admins have a somewhat free-er hand when playing to protect these articles. TomStar81 (Talk) 11:09, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Repeated incivility and personal attacks from User:Beyond My Ken[edit]

Withdrawn. Ajraddatz (talk) 02:18, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
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Hi all. Over the last couple of days, BMK has directed incredibly uncivil and attacking comments at me both on enwiki and meta. Most recently here at Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Stemoc, where he states that I do not have the necessary abilities to form a coherent opinion and that I am incompetent (more on meta at m:Grants talk:IdeaLab/Stop feeding the trolls). I would like this to stop; while I am used to being attacked by long-term trolls and the like, such as an edit to my userpage today by this account, I generally prefer to be able to participate in regular discussions without such treatment. To be clear: I am not concerned with the fact that he disagrees with me, nor that he obviously plans to oppose my steward confirmation in 2017 - those confirmations only register opinions on how I perform as a steward, and he has provided no evidence regarding any sub-standard performance by myself in that role. But I would like him to at least someone follow WP:CIVIL when he is directing comments towards me.

This is not new behaviour for him either. A quick look through his contributions shows many comments that lack basic decorum and civility, directed at any number of other editors. I can post further diffs if needed, but I expect this is well-known. I also don't want him blocked, because he does a lot of good content work and I'm not trying to stop that. But I would prefer it if I could participate in future discussions without unfounded attacks on my competence and character. Of course, if he has any actual evidence of misuse of my steward bit, I would be glad to hear it. Ajraddatz (talk) 01:43, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

  • This looks like a squabble to me. Ajraddatz, when you cast aspersions on call a very long-term and very experienced editor a "glorified troll", especially if you are or aspire to be a WMF admin/functionary/official, you're going to get blowback in the form of disagreement and probably a squabble. That's what this is. There's no policy against squabbles and I don't see this as incivility or personal attacks. Softlavender (talk) 01:59, 13 June 2016 (UTC); edited 02:15, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
    I have never called him a glorified troll. I have asked that he keep his comments civil. Further, a personal attack is defined as "Making of an abusive remark on or relating to somebody's person instead of providing evidence" according to wiktionary:personal attack; that is clearly what is happening here. Ajraddatz (talk) 02:02, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
"I have never called him a glorified troll." I misread that, then (and have corrected my statement now). This still looks like a run-of-the-mill [reactive] squabble to me rather than incivility or personal attacks. Softlavender (talk) 02:15, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
Well, perhaps I need to re-evaluate my role in it then. Thanks for the opinion, and I am withdrawing this. Ajraddatz (talk) 02:18, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
  • The first shot was fired by Ajraddatz: "This seems like harassment of Stemoc by BMK, after Stemoc called him a troll on AN a couple of days ago." (diff). Ajraddatz then added the clueless "keep per above obviously" for this revision of User:Stemoc. It looks like the MfD has been derailed, but for the future there is a difference between a user expressing support for something and the page in question. It is obvious polemic, although people seem to think it is in support of Trump whereas I would have regarded it as a parody. At any rate, it is not reasonable to assert that BMK performed harassment then complain at ANI about pushback. Johnuniq (talk) 02:04, 13 June 2016 (UTC)
    It does look like that. Stemoc called him a troll, he responds by nominating Stemoc's userpage for deletion. But you're right that I am not sure, so I said that it looks like it. Ajraddatz (talk) 02:06, 13 June 2016 (UTC)

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Another VoteX sock[edit]

Vote (X) for Change, as is his custom, has long moved on to using other IP addresses. --NeilN talk to me 15:14, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion. (talk · contribs · WHOIS). See Wikipedia:Long-term abuse/Vote (X) for Change. Could someone do the honours? Thanks. Incidentally, is ANI the best place for this sort of report? It's not obvious vandalism, so AIV seems inappropriate. Tevildo (talk) 17:06, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

What does this person do? Change calendar related stuff? TheDwellerCamp (talk) 17:06, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

On the reference desks, formal trolling in the old USENET sense - that is, posting deliberately provocative and inaccurate material with the intention of causing a disturbance. Tevildo (talk) 17:13, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
I was answering the question. I believe that's the point of the refdesk? I can't help you don't like the answer. (talk) 17:18, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
Will someone actually do an IP check?! I am not a sock. Just because the reported presumably disagrees ideologically with me, is not reason for a block. (talk) 17:10, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

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Personal attacks[edit]

Blocked by NeilN as the editor is WP:NOTHERE. ThePlatypusofDoom (Talk) 16:40, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
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User:Alif kha has been making personal attacks at CAPTAIN RAJU's page. Please block. Special:Contributions/Alif_kha. I don't know if Revdel is needed in this case. ThePlatypusofDoom (Talk) 16:30, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

Blocked per WP:NOTHERE. --NeilN talk to me 16:34, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

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The Rambling Man's warring with editors, including Calidum[edit]

This is going nowhere fast, and certainly not yielding anything productive. All parties are reminded that civility is expected from everyone. HighInBC Need help? {{ping|HighInBC}} 21:51, 12 June 2016 (UTC)
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This administrator keeps warring with Calidum to show his superiority to others. He changed from "posted" to "pull blurb" over and over; he reverted one of my edits. Or maybe the fault is Calidum, but TRM is also responsible. --George Ho (talk) 20:16, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

Nothing to do with "superiority" just English language. It is typical to post notices at ITN in the heading to garner attention. Calidum has misunderstood that, as has Ho. Move on. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:24, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
  • Boomerang for bringing this frivolous complaint to ANI. Absolutely no proof of edit warring here.--WaltCip (talk) 20:50, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
What about [37][38][39]? Frivolous? --George Ho (talk) 21:05, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
  • Second frivolous complaint in quick succession. I'm close to lodging a real complaint. The Rambling Man (talk) 20:52, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
@The Rambling Man and Calidum: Knock it off with the edit warring. Both of you are experienced editors and should know better. Calidum, stop making personal attacks. That's uncalled for. @WaltCip: George Ho provided diffs with his initial report. Let's not inflame the situation. Mike VTalk 21:07, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
Seriously, just find a hobby you lot. This is nothing, I couldn't care less that Calidum called me a dick, I couldn't care less that he doesn't understand how ITN headers work. However, I could care that Ho keeps on keeping on until he thinks he can get me and that's too much. Time to stop Georgie boy, I'm sick of it. If you continue, I'll see you back here for a ban. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:10, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
Don't worry, Mike V; the issue is probably resolved. Nevertheless, that doesn't leave both off the hook yet, does it? George Ho (talk) 21:11, 11 June 2016 (UTC)
No, George, that's right, keep sniffing for blood. What is your purpose here? The Rambling Man (talk) 21:18, 11 June 2016 (UTC)

And please, when someone can be bothered to action this, please go to ITN and assess consensus on the Gordie posting which now has a strong consensus to pull, I mean Really Strong. Thanks all, bar Ho. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:49, 11 June 2016 (UTC)