Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive997

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User:Jan Arkesteijn and the misleading use of false colour versions of old paintings on Wikipedia transcluded from Commons[edit]

Example 1
Example 2


Jan Arkesteijn (talk · contribs)

I believe sanctions or a topic ban on this project are worth considering for the long term pattern of misleading edits by Jan Arkesteijn on Wikipedia, and in a slightly more complex way via Wikidata as infoboxes and reports may automatically transclude the (P18) image linked on Wikidata relating to the article subject.

The pattern of misleading use of images is under discussion at Commons:ANU, where anyone is free to add an opinion or provide further evidence.

As an example please refer to the multiple cases on the Commons Admin noticeboard, and the specific deletion request at Deletion_requests/File:Richard_Wilson_(1714-1782),_by_Anton_Raphael_Mengs.jpg where this diff shows Jan Arkesteijn replacing an official correct colour image of a painting from the National Museum of Wales with a false colour version on the article Richard Wilson (painter). Further research will show other examples of replacing museum quality images with misleadingly false colour versions, such as on Erasmus Darwin (replacing an official National Portrait Gallery image), these have not been researched for the discussion on Wikimedia Commons as that project's policies do not cover these types of rare inter-project disruption.

Thanks -- (talk) 18:14, 5 November 2018 (UTC)

Support. This user's esthetic disruption is extraordinary. See also [1]. Jürgen Eissink (talk) 15:53, 8 November 2018 (UTC).
  • @: So, reviewing the situation...wow. Just to make sure I understand the situation, this user has been deceptively replacing images of historical paintings with deliberately falsified versions, for years, and in spite of multiple blocks, and has gone so far as to falsify EXIF data? And, when called out at Commons' AN, he simply lied and said he wasn't doing it? Is that really the situation? I'm seeing his conduct described at Commons as "vandalism", "forgery", and "fraud". I see the number of falsified images is potentially in the thousands, and that these falsified images are in place all over Wikipedias of all languages. I also see that Jan primarily contributes by adding images to articles here, as well as other language Wikipedias, something he can most certainly not be trusted doing. He edits a wide variety of projects. I'm strongly inclined to indef here, if there are no objections, but I suspect that a global ban for severe cross-wiki disruption might be a more appropriate measure.  Swarm  talk  21:50, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
Pretty much. For years they uploaded their own recoloured versions of professional photographs of paintings from archives, museums and galleries, apparently thinking these were improvements by replacing authentic copies of aged old paintings with their digitally enhanced very pink faces, super blue skies or over brightened dark backgrounds. It was only in the last series of complaints and sample cases that it was highlighted that EXIF data was also their creation, so that clearly the casual viewer or reuser would be misled by whatever copyright statements were displayed with the EXIF. There are over 1,300 instances where a Public Domain Mark license has been misleadingly declared this way, yet the source institution has made no such declaration.
Though people can take their own photographs of paintings and release them on Commons, recolouring other people's professional photographs or archive quality photographs and failing to make that clear, and failing to upload the original, so if the source goes dead we can never work out if the image has been digitally altered, is seriously misleading regardless of our endless presumptions of good faith or the retrospectively declared intention. As this activity spans 10 years and these photographs were promoted on Wikidata as the "official" versions, it is unlikely that the encyclopaedia-worthy colour correct and professional versions of these artworks will ever be repaired across all the different language Wikipedias or Wikidata.
Without intending to brag, I am technically competent at examining EXIF data and tracking down original image sources, with my own track record of uploading over a million GLAM related archive quality photographs to Commons. However properly fixing one of the cases, including amending Wikidata and repairing global usage, can take me 15 minutes, so fixing several thousand is an unrealistic backlog for the limited Wikimedia Commons volunteer time we have available from those with the right types of skill or interest. In some cases repair will be impossible due to sources going offline in the years since upload. -- (talk) 22:56, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support and how to globally indef and rollback their uploads? This is global digital cultural vandalism. Why just why? Legacypac (talk) 01:25, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Comment Is any image NOT a false-color image? The technology for reproducing colors using RGB falls short of perfection, and the appearance of colors on anyone's screen depends on adjustments on the machine they're using. Michael Hardy (talk) 19:19, 12 November 2018 (UTC)
    There is a big difference between adjusting your own photographs and tampering with official research quality photographs from archives that have been carefully taken to be as colour correct as technically possible. -- (talk) 21:20, 12 November 2018 (UTC)

*Oppose - As I've supported Jans block on Commons I think it would be very unwise for me to close this, Anyway in a nutshell - Different project = Different rules, We don't mass apply blocks just because they've been blocked on 1 project, Although Jan has been replacing images here no one's really battered an eyelid and I doubt anyone will, Unless he starts replacing local images then a block (or any sanction) at present is unwarranted. –Davey2010Talk 00:37, 16 November 2018 (UTC)

  • No one's suggesting we "mass apply blocks just because they've been blocked on 1 project". This is an extraordinary, perhaps unprecedented situation, in which a user has deceptively and willfully falsified the appearance of images on, potentially, thousands of articles, not only on the English Wikipedia, but on an untold number of other language Wikipedias. This is an extreme degree of cross-Wiki disruption, and the user can obviously not be trusted to edit in good faith here, so consequences should not automatically be restricted to Commons.  Swarm  talk  22:24, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
  • I appreciate this is a bit late, but I think it important to record here that Fae's claims about EXIF, repeated by Swarm, are highly disputed and not shared by other Commons users. EXIF is just data, it isn't signed and isn't associated with an particular user or organisation. There's no such thing as "original" or "official" EXIF. The claims that Jan altered the EXIF to mislead are unproven and simply bad faith. Jan added useful information to the EXIF (title, creator, source url, copyright, etc) just as many Commons uploaders add on the File Description page. EXIF tags are the official way that professional photographers and agents annotate files with such information. It helps ensure the information is retained even when an image is dislocated from its source. We have absolutely no reason to believe that Jan was altering the EXIF for any other purpose than to be helpful and informative. On one batch of files, he got the version of CC BY mixed up and wrote a 4 rather than 3, which seemed to upset Fae greatly, leading to a ridiculous deletion request that was swiftly closed. I fully agree that Jan is a menace when it comes to colours, and the underhand way these artworks have been altered is consistent with a ban. -- Colin°Talk 13:53, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

Proposal: TBAN from files[edit]

BAN
It seems like this discussion has been open for long enough and has enough participation and conversation. ~Hence:
  • Consensus is clearly in favour of a siteban and also a ban on uploading, modifying, or otherwise working with files, broadly construed.
  • Wikimedia-wide bans cannot be imposed here per meta:Global ban, folks will need to ask on meta:Requests for comment per the procedure outlined on the aforelinked page.
  • Leaving the other sections open as a ban does not address the issue of the user's contributions.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 09:24, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Jan Arkesteijn is indefinitely banned from uploading, modifying, or otherwise working with files, broadly construed.

  • Support - I think it should go without saying that, at the bare minimum, this user cannot be trusted to continue working with files.  Swarm  talk  23:58, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support I think this should be implemented together with below so that if the editor ever does appeal their site ban, it's likely it will remain in place (of course the community could decide to revoke it when revoking the site ban, or implement one when revoking the site ban, but I think this sets a good precedent for them). Nil Einne (talk) 13:54, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support This may seem a strong remedy, however JA is active on other projects but appears unwilling to recognize the problems they have created, and has not lifted a finger to help with finding the original images or ensuring that Wikipedia(s) and Wikidata are using authentic professional photographs, rather than this-is-what-I-like-for-a-personal-desktop-wallpaper amateur versions that will be mistaken for the authentic professional photographs because they are sourced that way and have EXIF data that appears original. There has been no indication that behaviour will change in the future. -- (talk) 14:28, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support as a minimum, this is seriously irresponsible behaviour. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:41, 18 November 2018 (UTC)

Proposal: Site ban[edit]

Jan Arkesteijn is indefinitely banned from the English Wikipedia.

  • Support - We do not know how many thousands of Wikipedia articles have been affected by this user's falsified images or on how many projects. We do know, however, that the number of images is likely in the thousands, and it can be presumed that many if not most of the images in question are in use at one or more Wikipedias. We know that this user's intent, even if it was ultimately to "improve" the images, was deliberate, subversive and malicious, and not only included falsifying the appearance of historic paintings in spite of blocks, and over the course of years, but falsifying EXIF data to misrepresent copyright status. The user has not been accountable for their actions, and actually denied that they were even doing it, even in the face of overwhelming evidence. And we don't know how long this will take to repair. I think they've completely and utterly destroyed the most fundamental level of trust that is required to edit here, and, as their disruption is widespread across many projects, they're probably in global ban territory, and banning them here, which not only is justified in its own right, would be a prerequisite to a global ban proposal.  Swarm  talk  23:58, 16 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support per my support above. There is zero reason to trust a serial vandal. Legacypac (talk) 10:14, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support Absolutely indefensible with no hope of reliable rehabilitation. The followup question is: how do "we" clean this up? EEng 19:19, 17 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support I don't really know what this editor was trying to do. But it seems to have caused significant harm. And the editor seems unable or unwilling to explain why they believed their edits were a benefit to wikipedia and what explanation they have offered has been confusing. The nature of reproduction of colours on device screens means it's questionable if there's any one right version. And sometimes e.g. a recent controversy over Doria Ragland comes to mind, it's in many ways just editors personal opinions of what colours most accurately reproduce something they probably didn't even see. But if someone has gone to great effort to reproduce the colours as best as they can, any change would need to start from the same base. It's quite doubtful that Jan Arkesteijn saw the original copies of each of these images and then used a quality colour corrected device to modify any images to reproduce them. Therefore there changes seem to be just random personal changes. It's also not possible that Jan Arkesteijn has seen the real person and is trying to improve the images to reproduce how look in real life. (Likewise it's quite doubtful they've seen a bunch of different images and descriptions of the person and are trying to reproduce that as far as possible.) Nil Einne (talk) 13:52, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support With the normal conventions that a later appeal would be handled in good faith, perhaps to allow non-image related contributions. -- (talk) 14:29, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support There is precedent for such an egregious breach of trust; supporting site ban per that. ——SerialNumber54129 14:40, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support - Going by this tool so far he's changed over 150 articles .... ofcourse that tool is only looking for "image" meaning he could've continued with either different edit summaries or none at all, I have no trust in this editor at all - There is a clear deception here, A major clean up is more than likely going to need to be done. –Davey2010Talk 14:56, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support per everyone's reasoning above, but noting that any eventual return to editing should not automatically include the ability to do image work, and a separate image ban would need to be addressed separately. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 16:44, 18 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Get rid of them already. Strong support. They're just like OberRanks, deliberately falsifying info. No benefit to the project. Regards, User:TheDragonFire300. (Contact me | Contributions). This message was left at 08:19, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support as this user is a serial vandal who isn't here to benefit the project. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 09:56, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support And why does a number change on the blackboard in these two images: main image and changes [2][3] Anna Frodesiak (talk) 10:20, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • That number appears to be a phone number. It is not the point of the picture, which is to show the human subject and so my impression is that this was a good faith update made for privacy reasons per WP:BLPPRIVACY, "Articles should not include postal addresses, e-mail addresses, telephone numbers...". Andrew D. (talk) 11:09, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
You are right, and I know that. I've been looking at those bluish commons pics for the last hour. :) Best, Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:41, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support And wit that I think a site ban is the only way. That is not only an aesthetic choice, that is blatant alteration.Slatersteven (talk) 10:24, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Oppose There's no such thing as true colour because that depends on the incident light and other factors. In the sample comparison pictures above, the various versions all appear to be different and the only one that is grossly different is the yellowish one that was taken by a different editor. My impression is that this work was all done in good faith. If Commons wants to make a fuss about this, that's their business and we should leave the matter to them. Andrew D. (talk) 11:09, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
Hi, Andrew D.. Is this work done in good faith: [4] [5][6] It appears that he changed a blackboard number. That looks like vandalism to me. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 11:22, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
Altering colour and changing content are not the same thing. You cannot change a number in good faith.Slatersteven (talk) 11:27, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
As explained above, that number appears to be a phone number. It is not the point of the picture, which is to show the human subject and so my impression is that this was a good faith update made for privacy reasons per WP:BLPPRIVACY, "Articles should not include postal addresses, e-mail addresses, telephone numbers...". Andrew D. (talk) 11:32, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
Its a publicly available photo (and for all we know was altered before release). There is not more justification for altering this then there would be for altering a direct quote. This went way beyond just an aesthetic choice.Slatersteven (talk) 11:36, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support I've been holding my tongue on this for two weeks. I honestly can't believe the editor wasn't indeffed within 24 hours of this thread being opened, let alone that anyone would still be opposing this proposal so late in the game. Hijiri 88 (やや) 11:31, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
Yes but consensus is clearly towards siteban. We are almost done. Excelse (talk) 14:05, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support what would be a well deserved ban. -Roxy, the Prod. wooF 14:44, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Strong support as per above, particularly convinced by Swarm's rationale and Hijiri 88's statement. Re-touched files could have been uploaded separately if there was an actual need for it... I am quite literally left without words to describe this. The damage done is probably near to irreparable, and the breach of trust is so serious I can't really think of any scenario where Jan Arkesteijn could (or should) be trusted to touch any file ever again. Clearly not here to build an encyclopedia. Impru20talk 15:15, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support, but given that this is a rare crosswiki disruption situation involving enwiki, commons, and wikidata, and probably others as a result, we should be posting this ban discussion at meta for a ban from all Wikimedia projects. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 15:19, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support, total ban, complete crosswiki discussion as per Ivanvector, this sort of attack undermines the credibility of the encyclopedia so much as to be an existential threat.Jacona (talk) 15:27, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Support total crosswiki ban- The damage deliberately inflicted by this user will take a lot of time and effort to clean up. They shouldn't be allowed to touch this project again. Reyk YO! 20:00, 19 November 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Swapping or removing affected photographs[edit]

Opening this section per "address the issue of the user's contributions" which needs some discussion and agreement as to the best process possible.

Based on the analysis on Commons, most of which has been done by myself so far, there are three different types of repair that may be needed:

  1. Swap - Where the original professional photograph of an artwork already exists on Commons, global usage should be swapped over and if there are no other considerations, the misleading version can be put up for deletion as being out of scope for Wikimedia Commons on the basis of having no realistic educational value. Example File:Nymphs and Satyr, by William-Adolphe Bouguereau.jpg has been globally replaced with File:William-Adolphe Bouguereau (1825-1905) - Nymphs and Satyr (1873) HQ.jpg and this Deletion Request created.
  2. Overwrite - Where the source is still available, and has not been uploaded as a separate file on Commons, the false-colour current version can be overwritten on Commons. An overwrite rather than uploading as a separate file is preferable, as Wikidata and all transcluding Wikipedias are repaired without using up more volunteer time. Example File:Witches going to their Sabbath (1878), by Luis Ricardo Falero.jpg was overwritten with false colour versions from 2011 and, probably due to age, is in use on in a dozen different language Wikipedias; the file was overwritten 2 weeks ago and this immediately restored all projects to the best colour-correct representation.
  3. Non-artworks - There are many photographic portraits of people uploaded with significant colour changes. Repairs may not be needed, either the changes are minor saturation differences that few people are going to care about, or the photographs are in black and white. However especially where the photograph is of an obviously "official" nature such as the portrait used on Jane Garvey (aviation administrator) which came from the Smithsonian and so is effectively assured as accurate by the Smithsonian, the changes need to be manually checked and the volunteer doing the checks needs to be assured that if they decide that the Jan Arkesteijn version is oddly coloured, and overwrite with a more authentic colour original, that they will be supported by the community.

It would be of great help if someone could construct a coordinating burn-down list of affected articles and images that need checks, which would help ensure that checks only need to be done once if different volunteers are looking at cases.

Doing these repairs needs reassurance that on Wikipedias, Commons and Wikidata that the changes are within policy and considered reasonable non-controversial maintenance. There has yet to be a consensus that Wikidata entries should all be repaired, yet this is a critical fix since infoboxes on articles in multiple Wikipedias are entirely reliant on Wikidata linking to the most representative and accurate image for an artwork or person.

This is a rare event, yet the impact is wide. As Jan Arkesteijn has used Wikidata to promote their false-colour images, there may need to be further policy-based consideration of whether we are happy that being entirely reliant on Wikidata for auto-transclusion of images in infoboxes across Wikipedias, when there is no process for ensuring that the images are accurate or even deliberately misleading, which leaves Wikipedia both open to image vandalism and the gradual erosion of encyclopaedic reliability, even though zero edits may be made on this project that would ever show this is happening. Specifically this is not a Wikimedia Commons problem, as Commons simply hosts images without judgement so long as they are of potential educational value. Using Wikidata to link to, say, an oddly oversaturated photograph of a politician to make their hair more orange, is not against any Wikidata policy or Commons policy and is not currently called "vandalism". -- (talk) 10:30, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

  • The idea that there's one definitive true colour for a painting still seems wrong. Here's a fresh news item which demonstrates how paintings age and are restored, so their colours are constantly changing. "...it was compromised by an old degraded varnish which had yellowed with age. Removing it revealed how Gainsborough included touches of blue in the sitter’s hair and around his eyes, reflecting the gorgeous blue of his jacket." Andrew D. (talk) 16:17, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Yet there will still be an "official" version, the issue is alterations made not by art historians or restorers, but phtotoshoping a phtoto to "improve it".Slatersteven (talk) 16:47, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
The official version of a piece of fine art is the original artwork. This will vary in appearance depending on how it is presented, especially the lighting. Any photograph is then a secondary approximation and it's just about impossible to take one now without some form of digital processing., unless you use a raw image format. The image will then be transformed further by the compression algorithm, scaling, display technology and the lighting in the place of viewing. For an example of the sort of issues and compromises that then result, see  Talk:Doria_Ragland#Photo, where there's debate about exactly how and whether to display a still from an official video. Photography is a complex business but ordinary readers and editors now routinely use colour filters, bokeh and other camera tricks every time they take a snap on their phone. And it's not clear that we have any strict policy about about this. For example, see the page Image dos and don'ts which states that "In general, when working with images: ... Clean up images: crop, color-correct, etc.". It is outrageous that an editor can follow such advice in good faith and get banned for it. Andrew D. (talk) 17:26, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
Andrew, how about taking some time to reflect on what the above consensus is, and what the super majority of considered opinions are, and the factual case evidence presented, before taking this discussion about repairing the encyclopaedic value of Wikipedia on an avoidable and unhelpful tangent? This was not someone in good faith taking their own instagram photographs of their dinner and adjusting the exposure afterwards, this was someone actively refusing to engage with the consensus view that their recolouring archive photographs was damaging the educational value of the original archive quality and research quality photographs, in many cases taken by named professionals who are employed by GLAMs precisely because they know how to photograph and light artworks in the best possible way. In some cases the photographs are taken by auctioneers where their professional and commercial reputation relies on representing the works in as faithful and true a way a possible. As a current example, this upload of the original has been on Commons for 6 years, in all that time Sotheby's have been falsely represented by this incompetent representation of their catalogue photograph, which turns the green chair aquamarine and makes the Earl's skin so pink and red that anyone researching the history of British painters might think that Henry Raeburn was a bit clueless. It is unfortunate that this bizarrely recoloured photograph is used to illustrate Earl of Hyndford, with no warning that it is in no way a faithful reproduction of the original. Nobody who appreciates Wikimedia's top level mission to deliver knowledge through Wikipedia, Commons, Wikidata etc. could support any activity which undermines and threatens the quality of that knowledge, providing a backdoor for a form of fakenews rather than a shared best possible representation of history and facts.
P.S. you may have missed the detailed and extended 2016 discussion on Commons which resulted in Jan Arkesteijn's restriction against overwrites there. The views were consistent and firmly expressed, so "an editor can follow such advice in good faith and get banned for it" is over-egging it, as Jan Arkesteijn can hardly claim that their uploads in the past two years were ever non-controversial. -- (talk) 18:23, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
  • The Commons discussion indicated that Arkesteijn was tweaking the colour-balance to counter the problem of yellowing varnish, 'his tendency to shift the colour to blue, presumably because he doesn't like the fact the canvass has yellowed with age ... Restoring or fixing colours due to ageing of the painting should definitely be allowed. ... I understand that this is not an issue for a ban, but regards disagreement over what it means to have "original colours".' As I understand it, it is quite normal for editors who work on old images to put a lot of effort into fixing up their imperfections – removing blemishes, fixing creasing and so forth. If the colours of a painting have aged, then it is reasonable to do something about this and the professionals do this too, as the news item about the Gainsborough painting indicates. My impression remains that this is a technical disagreement rather than a case of malicious vandalism. Anyway, is there some clear guidance somewhere as to what is or isn't permissible when uploading antique images of this sort. The page I cited above – Image dos and don'ts – says explicitly that such image cleanup is expected. Andrew D. (talk) 18:54, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
The information page mentions "color-correct", this was "color-damage". Had Jan Arkesteijn been able to work collegiately with others to understand why this was damaging to encyclopaedic or educational value, then we could have avoided a block or a ban discussion. -- (talk) 19:41, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
I am not sure that image do's and dont's apply to works of art it, it would apply to as poor image of it (after all we cannot upload an original copy). And as I said, we are not professional art restorers, we are blokes using a PC. In fact it is misleading as it does not look like the original. The only circumstances where image d&D would apply is an uploaded image of poor quality (to bring it in line with the original at a museum).Slatersteven (talk) 21:01, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
As I said in my support, if Jan Arkesteijn had access to the original paintings and had made their corrections based on their expertise with a colour corrected display etc with reference to the original paintings perhaps we could say there was a legitimate dispute over which ones more accurately represented the original content. Now if they don't have access to the original paintings but believe the versions produced by professionals do not accurately reflect the paintings as they were like when they were new, and they had the necessary expertise to try and correct these issues and had either come to the community and explained what they want to do and why and received consensus, or perhaps made new files where they clearly explained what they did and why and not tried to add them to anywhere except via proposing it on talk pages, then this would be okay. But this wasn't what happened. In fact, Jan Arkesteijn doesn't even seem to have been willing to properly explain what they were doing. Nil Einne (talk) 22:54, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
Question: If the "false-color" images were clearly labelled in their titles as being so, with an explanation in the image information on the order of "Colors altered to simulate what the original painting might have looked like before the yellowing of the varnish applied to it after the fact", and the images were uploaded as separate files, not overwriting the official images, would these be sufficient measures? Beyond My Ken (talk) 19:11, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

User:Sansonic's unsourced additions[edit]

Sansonic has been warned multiple times about making unsourced additions to British Pakistanis. See, for example, User talk:Sansonic#July 2018, User talk:Sansonic#August 2018 and User talk:Sansonic#November 2018. The additions continue, however, and are starting to get a bit silly. Is it time for a block? Cordless Larry (talk) 16:42, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

not sure why Sansonic and another shared IP keep tampering the article endlessly. Talk page speaks volumes about the ignorance of good faith editing. Devopam (talk) 19:43, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
Yes, high time, Larry. I notice that Sansonic hasn't edited their talkpage since 2011. Perhaps they've stopped reading it, too. Their block log contains some serious blocks, but only from 2009 — 2010, so I suggest ignoring it for purposes of block length now. How about a week, with a warning of more if it happens again? Bishonen | talk 19:55, 23 November 2018 (UTC).
That seems appropriate to me, Bishonen. Looking at Sansonic's user page and their edits to the politics section of the article, I am concerned that many of their additions are being driven by political bias. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:17, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
I meant to suggest you do it, Larry, but that's fine; I've blocked. Actually it may be as well to demonstrate that other admins besides you disapprove of their editing, since you have posted so many warnings to them. Bishonen | talk 20:42, 23 November 2018 (UTC).
Thanks, Bishonen. Yes, I considered myself involved, so didn't want to give a block myself. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:48, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

User:Movie Classic adding very subtle vandalism[edit]

Stale; user hasn't edited in over two months. Please deal with individual issues/edits instead. (non-admin closure) Softlavender (talk) 11:37, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

User:Movie Classic has been editing several animation-related articles since signing up in July. Most of the edits are unobjectionable; however, scattered within them have been several instances of edits that are almost certainly known to be false. See the following edits: [7], [8], and [9]. In each case, the editor is putting in an entry that claims that a cartoon is being included with the DVD of a movie that no longer exists.

This seems like a particularly dangerous vandal, scattering plausible-sounding false information in among a much larger number of legitimate edits. I think an admin should take a look.—Chowbok 03:27, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

It's kind of stale, don't you think? Only 50 edits, and none since September? Should be relatively easy to clean up. 2600:8800:1880:188:5604:A6FF:FE38:4B26 (talk) 05:32, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
Please see WP:GAIV. Per guidelines for Administrator intervention against vandalism . "Any vandal who hasn't been warned properly should not be reported." Users are not blocked if: (1) The user hasn't been warned sufficiently.; and/or (2) The user stopped editing after the warning. Given that the above user was never warned, and has not edited since September, this should be closed out as non-actionable. — Maile (talk) 22:00, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Unambiguous conflicted, promotional editor; please indef[edit]

LTA blocked.--Bbb23 (talk) 14:36, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Pure WP:SPA for Marc Bell (entrepreneur); that page has been subject to a slew of undisclosed conflicted/paid editing. Each of those people has sought to downplay/erase Bell's involvement in porn, which is where he made his money, and instead add all sorts of shiny things. This person is exactly like those who came before, and edit-warring to boot:

Non-credible responses at User talk:Sprocvler.

Please indef. Jytdog (talk) 12:46, 26 November 2018 (UTC)


The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Severe personal attacks by Hyper121[edit]

Indef blocked. (non-admin closure) Softlavender (talk) 11:35, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

For this[10] sort of automated edit by me, these sorts of replies[11][12][13] are unacceptable, and are considered severe personal attacks. -- AlexTW 23:28, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

No kidding. Blocked. --jpgordon𝄢𝄆 𝄐𝄇 23:44, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
Jpgordon, cheers! -- AlexTW 02:57, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul Frame[edit]

Consensus that the closure was fine. --Jayron32 16:04, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
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There's been some minor oddities about how Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul Frame was closed (see User talk:Serial Number 54129#Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paul Frame). I don't think anything that happened rises to the level of disruption, or even beyond good-faith editing, but it would be useful if an uninvolved admin took a look to validate the non-admin close. -- RoySmith (talk) 19:00, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Just looking at it casually, the article was saved as no consensus so no damage was done by the closure. Damage is when an AfD is closed and the article is permanently destroyed. Trackinfo (talk) 19:41, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
No, it isn't. Bishonen | talk 20:55, 22 November 2018 (UTC).
I am reading No, it isn't as meaning their are options for recovering the article after an AfD deletion (although requests to access or resurrect the content may be difficult/offputting for a non-admin but will usually be granted to a non-admin for a reasonably reasoned request).Djm-leighpark (talk) 10:06, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
Nothing is permanently destroyed. Any admin can restore a deleted article without any trouble at all if an article is deleted incorrectly. --Jayron32 16:03, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
Deleting an article that shouldn't be in an encyclopedia is not damage. Reyk YO! 12:42, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
It didn't go a full seven days after the *third* re-list, but other than that it seems like a perfectly reasonable close to me. 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 04:10, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
I was the originator of concerns over that closure which ultimately I think everyone agrees was ultimately correct, but there were some procedural errors in processing. Because RoySmith was a little involved in that discussion I suggest he's probably brought it here for a neutral admin to agree closure was OK. There are 3 procedural points:
  • 1: The relist with 168 hours, a 'minor' procedural error that I think we all agree is trivial at ANI level
  • 2: The removal of the relist from the closed ANI discussion record. I don;t think there was any issues with RoySmith re-instating it.
  • 3: The closure of AfD within 168 hours of the relist with no consensus ... which perhaps is the interesting one and would likely have been dealt with a simple dialog between myself and the closer Serial Number 54129 if (2) had not occurred. The (non-admin) closer has argued, and as far as I can now judge quite reasonably, the WP:RELIST allows A relisted discussion may be closed once consensus is determined without necessarily waiting a further seven days. ... and closed with the comment: The result was no consensus to delete the article was established; a future merge, can, of course, still be discussed on the relevant talk page (My view now is actually very pragmatic given the spread of delete/keep/merge meaning no delete consensus was likely to occur and merge are better discussed outside of AfD).
The interesting point on 78.26's comments is the implication the close after the 3rd relist may have been not perfectly reasonable. If this point needs discussion then DRV would be a better option ... (not to overturn decision but for procedural clarification) ... though I believe RoySmith brought this here for a quick uninvolved admin review of actions. I have no doubts whatsoever everyone is here in good faith.Djm-leighpark (talk) 10:06, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
  • The close looks fine to me. After the the first 7 days are completed in full a discussion can be closed at any time when consensus is reached, there is no need to wait a further 7 days after a relist. The only procedural error I see is a user removing a relist from a closed thread. Szzuk (talk) 12:33, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
  • The AfD close looks remarkably unremarkable. The main procedural oddity is that the issue is being discussed here rather than at WP:DRV. This discussion should be speedily closed. Andrew D. (talk) 13:09, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Just to clarify, the discussion itself was rather exemplary, with editors discussion notability, attempting to retain encyclopedic content, keeping and open mind, and even changing their position as evidence and logic presented itself. Still, after an entire month, no clear consensus has presented itself. There are two potential issues, both small. According WP:RELIST, A relisted discussion may be closed once consensus is determined. I suppose that closing as "no consensus" technically violates this, as by definition consensus has not been determined. But it was a whole month. Consensus was highly unlikely to be reached, and the reasonable close was that consensus is that there's no consensus. Regarding the removal of the third relist notice, the editor who did that admitted it was a mistake on Serial's talk page, and thanked the editor who reverted them. I don't see anything that harmed Wikipedia, anything that would cause me to distrust any of the editors who participated here or in this discussion, so cookies and hot chocolate for everyone! 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 14:54, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

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Sean Emmett[edit]

Which, as of yet, it has not. Closing for now. Fish+Karate 13:49, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
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There's a UTRS request here, and as a result I modified some of the content at Sean Emmett to reflect what the source actually says. Since then, we've had edit warring to make this change with the edit summary "Incorrect facts were posted. Sean Emmett was never arrested or charged with murder in Dubai" - but the edit removed all of the "Personal life" section, and none of the removed content had said that he was arrested or charged with anything (not after I'd already removed that allegation). I've protected for 3 hours and would prefer to hand it over to others to keep an eye on now. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 13:23, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

I think the best thing to do would be to extend the semi-protection if it resumes. Fish+Karate 15:41, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

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IP 103.60.175.85[edit]

IP blocked for one year and everything rolled back. Softlavender (talk) 11:33, 26 November 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure)
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Hi. This IP is the same editor as IP 103.60.175.15, who was blocked last month for one year for BLP issues. Now they're editing under this IP, and doing the same edits to the same articles (example, example). Please can this address be blocked too, and if possible, their edits rollbacked? Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 18:13, 23 November 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, forgot to @Jo-Jo Eumerus: for info, who dealt with this previously. Thanks. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 18:15, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
Here are userlinks for the old IP: 103.60.175.15 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log). Both IPs' filter logs have lots of entries for changing dates of birth in the infobox. I would support a one year block of the new IP. EdJohnston (talk) 18:49, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
Blocked one year and everything rolled back. Katietalk 19:01, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
For what it's worth, it looks like you probably just rolled back the last 100 edits or so. If you meant to rollback every edit, there's another 500 or so. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 20:31, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
Yes, the "rollback all" script only rolls back the edits that are listed on the page where you use it; perhaps Katie only had a list of the last 50 edits visible. I've certainly been had that way! I've rolled back the rest now. Bishonen | talk 21:10, 23 November 2018 (UTC).
Thanks to everyone here for their help. Lugnuts Fire Walk with Me 10:08, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

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Cocktail and cocktail related pages[edit]

Block evader blocked Softlavender (talk) 11:42, 26 November 2018 (UTC) (non-admin closure)
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(block evasion reverted) Ivanvector (Talk/Edits)

Who are or were you? These last several months, we've been getting edits from mobile phones, under your 2600+ identification. GoodDay (talk) 13:57, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
GoodDay, you've got it wrong. 2600 corresponds to a /4 CIDR range, which for IPv6 is 21,267,647,932,558,653,966,460,912,964,485,513,216 addresses. You can't assume they're all the same user. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:07, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
I've been seeing a lot of 2600, 2604, 2605 etc mobile IPs lately. Some are helpful, while others are not. Just find it strange, how these become more frequent. GoodDay (talk) 14:09, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
(edit conflict) It's just the march of progress. Many mobile ISPs are starting to implement IPv6 and simultaneously it is easier than ever to browse the web and edit Wikipedia from a mobile device. Some traditional (non-mobile, can't think of a better word) ISPs are also implementing IPv6, it's not just mobile devices. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:24, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
But, also, this IPv6 editor is obviously evading a block, and so now they are blocked as well. Ivanvector (Talk/Edits) 14:31, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

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Help:Reverting[edit]

The two reported users have been indef blocked. (non-admin closure) Softlavender (talk) 11:45, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
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Dear Administrators, please help me. Some Indonesia's fans had tried to change page Miss International 1976 and Indonesia at major beauty pageants. They changed placements of theirs country. They robbed achivements of some countries and replaced with theirs contestants. If you see history of these pages, you can see it. They had been abusing multiple accounts. I tried to stop but did not succeed. They are User:DPIDAMU, User:DeanBWFofficial and others. I'm so sorry because my English language skills is limited. Please help me to prevent them. Please consider blocking the user for a longer period of time or permanently. Thank you so much Nguyenquochieu2107 (talk) 7:10 , 26 November 2018 (UTC)

The two accounts you listed have already been blocked by User:GorillaWarfare. It's likely anyone else has also been blocked but you should list anyone who hasn't been blocked if you think they are a problem and make sure to notify them. Nil Einne (talk) 09:02, 26 November 2018 (UTC)
@GorillaWarfare: and @Nil Einne: Thank you so much

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Range block needed again for Malaysian nationality vandal[edit]

(Non-administrator comment) the ip range /37 was blocked again for 2 weeks, despite high potential collateral damage. Matthew hk (talk) 10:59, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
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The same vandal which was reported as Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive994#User:2405:3800::/32 had returned. The previous range 2405:3800::/37 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) which is a subset of the mega range 2405:3800::/32 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) seem approiate to cover all current ip he used recently in November. Matthew hk (talk) 12:44, 21 November 2018 (UTC)

add 2 more ip. still the same /37 range . Matthew hk (talk) 12:49, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
add 1 more ip (compare Special:Diff/869950794 and Special:Diff/869975177). still the same /37 range and now block evasion of 2405:3800:501:331E:59A8:3578:DBA4:3379 (talk · contribs · WHOIS). Matthew hk (talk) 16:42, 21 November 2018 (UTC)
@Oshwah:, @Ohnoitsjamie:, He re-appeared as 2405:3800:81:4A87:D909:D055:63E9:1B72 (talk · contribs · WHOIS). Matthew hk (talk) 10:01, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
Well the same /37 range had emerged yet another (unrelated?) vandal 2405:3800:382:448:d92d:cf9d:b9ce:1eaf (talk · contribs · WHOIS) and one collateral damage (‎2405:3800:281:a94f:a468:eaf5:f9fe:29b9 (talk · contribs · WHOIS)). Matthew hk (talk) 15:47, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
Actually that doesn't seem to be vandalism but a correct edit. I'll explain on the article talk page. Nil Einne (talk) 21:39, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
We the ip (2405:3800:382:448:d92d:cf9d:b9ce:1eaf) did not provide reliable source, and the news use "Datin Paduka" for Nancy Shukri. Well it may be two collateral damages for the /37 range, as you dig out the source for the usage of Dato on a female especially on Nancy Shukri. And the current time in Asia is the morning, so lets see the nationality vandal will emerge again with yet another ip or not, and than take ages to stack up to level 4 warning and then take ages to block when posting in AIV, and then he just flipped to another ip and loop. Matthew hk (talk) 22:13, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
You obviously did the best with what you had. And you're right that one source uses that title. Assuming you did a Google News Search, possibly you searched with the title in the search them? When I do a Google News search, that's pretty much one of the only results I find with that title . If I search for just her name, I find a large number which use some variant of Dato' Sri (mostly commonly Datuk Seri, sometimes Dato Sri) [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19]. Also I should clarify I only meant to refer to that one IP. When I had a quick look earlier at examples from the range, most were vandalism so I agree most edits from that range seem to be a problem and even with these two examples of good faith editing, the collateral is probably very small. Nil Einne (talk) 22:40, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
And here come another ip (2405:3800:481:e8c3:e6d4:6fea:2255:f4b (talk · contribs · WHOIS)) from /37 range that not related to nationality. How notable it is, to mention the similarity of Malaysia plates with prefix P to vehicle registration plates of Trinidad and Tobago?? Matthew hk (talk) 23:16, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
And may be yet another collateral ? 2405:3800:401:6045:C9EA:92E7:ADC1:4376 (talk · contribs · WHOIS) adding unsourced linkage of two festivals of Asia. Matthew hk (talk) 01:01, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
Well after active for 3 days from 19 November, the vandal seems disappeared. The new edits from the /37 range seem another good faith edit on fixing hon. title (Dr., Dato, Datin). Matthew hk (talk) 11:43, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
And yet another may unrelated vandal (Special:Diff/870240966). Matthew hk (talk) 13:07, 23 November 2018 (UTC)
4 ips just today. 2405:3800:401:9BC3:D125:C888:FB24:139F (talk · contribs · WHOIS). Despite it may had high potential collateral damage (this one seem good faith Special:Diff/870337663), don't know today as a holiday, how many ip he would jumped. Matthew hk (talk) 12:40, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
6 ip just one Sunday is a good number. Matthew hk (talk) 13:47, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
Matthew hk - I've blocked the IP range 2405:3800::/37 - this time for two weeks instead of one month. It's still a wide range and collateral damage is highly likely, but something is obviously needed... :-) ~Oshwah~(talk) (contribs) 23:02, 26 November 2018 (UTC)

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User:DragonKing22[edit]

Blocked x 24 hrs for gross incivility. I have no objection to another admin unblocking them if they apologize and agree to strike or remove their offensive comments. -Ad Orientem (talk) 04:28, 27 November 2018 (UTC)
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Today, I reverted a change DragonKing22 made to Template:Animation industry in the United States, which he swiftly reverted back. When I asked him about it on the template's talk page, he responded in a not-so-civil manner. Normally, I'd just ignore comments like this, but looking back at the user's history, this outburst seems like just the latest in a patter of unnecessary personal attacks.

This user was blocked once for personal attacks in 2015, but his behavior doesn't seem to have changed much since then. See, within the last year:

These are relatively old links, but it shows a pattern of disruptive behavior and unnecessarily abusive language. I'm posting this here for an admin to review. Much thanks, Aoi (青い) (talk) 03:31, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

Blocked x 24 hrs following their most recent comment on their talk page. -Ad Orientem (talk) 03:53, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

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"I am just done and one day I am going to make a website that is even better than this shit hole of a place!" ...with black jack. And hookers. --Tarage (talk) 06:04, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

@Tarage: Well, that's how I usually fold up :) ——SerialNumber54129 10:32, 27 November 2018 (UTC)

User:GSS doesn't understand process for proposing articles for deletion[edit]

Persistent vandalism of Rahul Mandal. The user keeps reverting edits and re-directing page. The user does NOT UNDERSTAND the process for proposing articles for deletion, does not allow contributions from other users to his proposal and keep re-directing page. HardB (talk) 08:07, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

@HardB: actually it is you who doesn't understand the process... You are creating a page about someone with no notability. GSS is well within the process here. You made no attempt to resolve your dispute with a very experienced editor. Instead you jumped right to reporting them here and didn't follow the first rule of reporting a user which is that you MUST notify them. --Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 08:28, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
@Zackmann08: regarding notability, one can hardly blame Hardb for assuming that this winner of TGBBO would be notable...when the other eight are presumed so: see Category:The Great British Bake Off winners. Just FYI. Personally, I don't think anyone is edified in that encounter. ——SerialNumber54129 10:28, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
Oh and calling GSS's edits vandalism is a joke. --Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 08:29, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

Note to admin: Should be noted that User:HardB comes very close to making a threat in comments towards User:GSS in this edit. --Zackmann (Talk to me/What I been doing) 08:33, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

That's not a threat. And redirecting the article isn't vandalism. You guys need to settle down. Since GSS stopped edit warring and nominated the article for deletion, this seems resolved to me. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 08:44, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
Zackmann08, Thank you for notifying me about this discussion. @HardB: I actually assumed good faith when I redirect this article per WP:ATD which you reverted twice without any explanation or improvements even after I asked you to see WP:BLP1E and nominating it for deletion was an attempt to avoid WP:EDITWAR and to seek a permanent solution for this. Thank you – GSS (talk|c|em) 08:59, 25 November 2018 (UTC)
I agree with NinjaRobotPirate, not a threat. User:Zackmann08, if you want to help at ANI, please try to deescalate - not inflame these discussions with wild accusations of threats. This isn't an RPG.--v/r - TP 18:39, 25 November 2018 (UTC)

User:Gugi2001 and NOTHERE[edit]

The user keep on spreading his greater Albanian nationalism and ignoring WP:OPENPARA, with no sign to communicate in user talk or respect the MoS. For example, Bernard Berisha, Benjamin Kololli and Valon Berisha never played for Albania national football team but Kosovo national football team only, so their "nationality in sport" is Kosovo only (and in Valon Berisha's case Kosovo and previously Norway). However, the user keep on spamming Kosovo Albanians to the articles with edit summary "Kosovo is not nation!". Matthew hk (talk) 15:30, 22 November 2018 (UTC)

Here is the revert diff in Valon Berisha Special:Diff/869972795 and Special:Diff/869973246.
As a note. Valon Berisha played for both Norway and Kosovo in sport. So how relevant to call him Kosovo Albanians footballer? Matthew hk (talk) 16:27, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
Here is the revert diff in Benjamin Kololli Special:Diff/869974141 and Special:Diff/870118340. Matthew hk (talk) 15:36, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
The revert in Kololli was done by other in this diff Special:Diff/866965006. Matthew hk (talk) 15:39, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
As a note. Benjamin Kololli is born in Switzerland and played for Kosovo in sport only . So, how relevant to call him Kosovo Albanians as nationality+ethnicity (dual nationality?) Matthew hk (talk) 16:26, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
Here is the revert diff in Bernard Berisha: Special:Diff/870119181 and Special:Diff/870119425. Matthew hk (talk) 15:54, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
As a note. Bernard Berisha is born in Kosovo, (by-then part of SFR Yugoslavia ). He represented Kosovo in sport only. So, how relevant to call him Kosovo Albanians? Matthew hk (talk) 16:29, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
  • I can't look further into this matter right now, but I did revert the most recent set of edits which contained uselessnesses such as this. Drmies (talk) 15:37, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
  • Isn't this kind of Balkans-related arguing over nationality under discretionary sanctions? NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 15:58, 22 November 2018 (UTC)
@NinjaRobotPirate: I don't mind if wikipedia actually accepts every Kosovar people were tagged as Kosovar Albanian as a standard due to "dual nationality", but currently most of the Albanian ethnicity and nationality are not backed by reliable source, and non-notable to mention according to the discussion in WP:Footy. There is a few exception, as many Kosovar footballer had played for both Albania national football team and Kosovo national football team, for example Samir Ujkani. Matthew hk (