- 1 Atabəy
- 2 BesterRus
- 3 Arbitration enforcement action appeal by The Last Angry Man
- 3.1 Statement by The Last Angry Man
- 3.2 Statement by Mkativerata
- 3.3 Statement by Steven Zhang
- 3.4 Statement by Russavia
- 3.5 Statement by Lothar von Richthofen
- 3.6 Statement by Vecrumba
- 3.7 Statement by TransporterMan
- 3.8 Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by The Last Angry Man
- 3.9 Result of the appeal by The Last Angry Man
- 4 Modinyr
- 5 Jonchapple
- 6 George45646
- 7 PCPP
- 7.1 Request concerning PCPP
- 7.2 Discussion concerning PCPP
- 7.2.1 Statement by PCPP
- 7.2.2 Comments by others about the request concerning PCPP
- 7.3 Result concerning PCPP
|Both Atabəy and Khodabandeh14 were placed under 6-month topic bans by User:Tznkai. EdJohnston (talk) 19:03, 24 October 2011 (UTC)|
|The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.|
Request concerning Atabəy
I am asking for permanent ban of Atabəy (talk · contribs) on Armenia/Iran related topics (and those of Armenia/Iran that overlap with any other topic). Note Atabəy (talk · contribs) had the previous name Atabek (talk · contribs) and has been in two arbcomms, as well as banned permanently from some topic. [remedies]
Atabəy (talk · contribs) had the previous name Atabek (talk · contribs) and has been in two arbcomms, as well as banned permanently from some topic. [remedies]. The most recent sanction whose full report can be found here:  was in May 2011. The result was: "Atabəy (talk · contribs) is banned from Iranian topics including the Safavids for three months and is under an indefinite restriction to 1RR/week per the result of a thread at WP:AE. Notified. EdJohnston (talk) 04:09, 6 May 2011 (UTC)"[] Saygi1 (talk · contribs) is notified:  --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 02:20, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
It would be good if EdJohnston looks at this case as he was the one that enforced the last sanction. He is familiar with my edits, Atabey's edit and Folantin's helpful comment as a 3rd party mediator.
I tried to make Arbcomm aware that the problem is POV battle pushing  which needs a mechanism like Russian wikipedia. If such a mechanism is not enforced, then I will quit. However, before quitting, I should note what made me propose such mechanism is exactly such users. I have wasted archives after archives with such users and it was a great waste of time. English wikipedia is too inept to unfortunately handle problematic articles in one day. So I decided to seek third party dispute resolution. I sought third party comments from two admins who are familiar with the classical history of the area and are known for the objectivity. However, the discussion ended with the admin concluding: "No, I'm done here. By comparing The Shahnameh and Mein Kampf and thus resorting to reductio ad Hitlerum, Atabey has violated Godwin's law and the discussion is therefore over. ". This is a result of WP:SOAPBOX, WP:NPA and WP:NOBATTLE. So even though the Arbcomm case is likely not approved (because they claim that other methods exists which does not), I tried third party dispute resolution, and instead the comments above popped out. I might have made some comments myself outside the discussion, but this has to do with past experience and evidence I sent to arbcomm. All the above are violations of fundamental policies. --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 16:45, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
@Tznkai, thanks for the proposal but also I would like to get the feedback of EdJohnston who is familiar with the case. I have no prior topic bans, AA warnings or etc. The user on the other hand was topic banned recently. Admins need to go through the comments carefully. I asked for 3rd party feedback and the third party was attacked by: ""@Folantin, instead of pandering to Khodabandeh14's nationalist WP:POV ". Basically, the admins need to reread the discussion that took place. As I said, EdJohnston is very familiar with this case and he handed out a 3 month ban on Atabek in late May 2011. So I really want to hear his feedback on this issue as well. --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 18:53, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
Just wanted to note that there is more bad accusations here. Atabek claims I reverted him here:  which is a bad faith accusation, since he was banned from that article for POV pushing. That is right, he was topic banned from that specific article for POV pushing (see the discussion there where he uses a 1909 popular source to push POV against all evidence). In that page, he pushed "Two sources from 1905 and 1913" while ignoring all modern sources. I think if admins look at that 2008 edits (for he was topic banned from that article) and compare to his modern edits, there is no improvement as it is all about pushing a sort of ethnic agenda. But my edit had nothing to with Atabek, rather I added sources to the article and looked at the talkpage. --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 20:14, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
I would like to recall the previous AE sanction case which I filed against Atabek . What makes the admins think that a 6 month ban is sufficient? I have a clean record and I was not involved in AA1/AA2 topics. I asked for mediation and instead the user brought up hitler, mein kemp and accused the 3rd party neutral user of ""@Folantin, instead of pandering to Khodabandeh14's nationalist WP:POV ". I do really believe sanctions are needed here, and although I could not see any mistakes by myself, I do see huge violations of WP:NPA and WP:NOTBATTLE from Atabek. Specifically, when he gets into a disagreement, he has several time accused users of anti-Turkism or what not. Simply the atmosphere created by the user is not conducive to wikipedia. How many chances do users get? Just note he did not listen a 3rd party mediator here (Gareth) here either: . Just one quote: " I still fail to see why Tigran is pushing Armenian POV, when Abgar had nothing to do with Armenia. Tiridates acceptance of Christianity in Armenia was also a legend, so there is no reason why one legend is more important than the other, while several authors confirm the fact of Abgar VIII's acceptance of Christianity by 201. I am ready to present more references to my edit, than dozens already presented in my version. But the information is already out, and it won't be possible to hide facts by historical fabrications, POV pushing/edit warring this time.". You might ask why would a user be interested in such a rare topic? It is because he does not want Armenia to be known as the first Christian state (something generally agreed upon by scholarship today). This goes back to the third century A.D., and the user simply is fighting now battles about 3rd century A.D. and 10th century A.D. (Shahnama). --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 20:36, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
I consider the RfC of Atabek in bad faith as already two neutral users gave their opinion. But I am not going to let the user have a one-sided viewpoint there.--Khodabandeh14 (talk) 00:36, 14 October 2011 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Atabəy
Statement by Atabəy
At Talk:Anti-Turkism, Talk:Flag of South Azerbaijan and Talk:Azerbaijani people, User:Khodabandeh14 exhibits extremely disruptive WP:BATTLE behavior, refusing to come to any consensus, acting WP:OWN, pushing WP:POV, using WP:PEACOCK wording towards any author he disagrees with, WP:SOAP labeling them as nationalists. Just look at his admission: "I believe the third parties gave a sufficient response. That is why exactly this went to enforcement". This implies that he is using Arbitration Enforcement as a way to intimidate contributor with a threat of sanctions, in order to push his WP:POV in an article.
Assuming good faith, in an attempt to achieve consensus with him, I made a proposal at Talk:Anti-Turkism. But Khodabandeh14 is clearly dismissing any source that he disagrees with, focusing only on his WP:POV or else, the objective to get me sanctioned.
In his prior WP:HARASSMENT, few months ago, User:Khodabandeh14 succeeded by having User:EdJohnston temporarily restrict me from editing pages like Safavid dynasty. Despite EdJohnston's promise to lift this restriction on certain conditions that he suggested, after my appeal and my fulfillment of those conditions, the restriction was forgotten and not lifted, and I did not have time then to follow through the case. But it is obvious that instead of working on articles, and emboldened by such support, User:Khodabandeh14 is now targeting contributors.
I ask AE to remind User:Khodabandeh14 to be more patient and WP:AGF, to constructively participate in talk page discussions, and to leave my identity alone, simply because it is irrelevant to the topics of pages that we edit. I am also expecting AE action in regards to the item 4, which is a severe violation. I mean why is Khodabandeh14 is allowed to go around freely alleging my real-life name? Is this something acceptable in Wikipedia? And I am completely disappointed as to why, being actively involved in all WP:AA2 edit conflicts, User:Khodabandeh14 remains free of any arbitration enforcement and is even allowed to harass contributors?!
For information of Arbitration Enforcement, at my request at WP:Oversight purged out comments by KHodabandeh14, attempting to link me to a person in violation of WP:HARASSMENT. I kindly ask AE to take actions to prevent repeated violations of the policy by User:Khodabandeh14. The topic disagreements can be resolved on talk pages of the articles, via RfCs, and other currently pursued methods. Thanks. Atabəy (talk) 02:54, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
Questions about AE decision
@Tznkai, and other supporting administrators, your decision below raises the following question:
Comments by others about the request concerning Atabəy
Result concerning Atabəy
Both Atabəy and User:Khodabandeh14 are:
If either of you, or anyone else, in your attempts to get the good behavior suspension disrupts previously stable forums, I will move onto blocks. You have until the ban starts to make further comments, or point me at other editors whose behavior also justifies being included in the topic ban as described above. You may also consider an appeal, and as always, my fellow administrators are encouraged to comment as well.--Tznkai (talk) 18:40, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
|Warned. T. Canens (talk) 16:37, 24 October 2011 (UTC)|
|The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.|
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning BesterRus
Perhaps this is a bit harsh or even bite-y of me, but I felt that it was necessary to bring this here for official review. BesterRus is a relatively new editor who has immediately decided to rush headlong into the hostile environment of Eastern European disputes here (e.g. inserting himself into the current MedCab case regarding Holodomor POV disputes, having never previously participated in any discussion on the topic) with a flamboyant us-versus-them battlefield mentality. He made efforts to backtrack on his initial nationally-motivated attack on Vecrumba, but never retracted it fully. Instead, he shifted his meaning from personal attack to national attack, staying on the "Nazi sympathies" grounds specifically targeted in the Digwuren case. He has shown a willingness to moderate his comments on a strictly personal level, but has remained defiant in preserving the intent on a broader national level. In any case, his mentality is strongly counterproductive to dispute resolution, in which he has decided to participate (with right, don't misunderstand me), and he should be made officially aware of the consequences which will follow should he keep it up. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 23:41, 21 October 2011 (UTC)
Discussion concerning BesterRus
Statement by BesterRus
Comments by others about the request concerning BesterRus
If it were directed towards a single user, it is a personal attack of the worst kind. If it were directed towards entire people of Baltic states, it is the worst kind of battleground mentality. Sanctons are warranted, though inexperience is a mitgating factor. - BorisG (talk) 13:47, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
There is no place in Wikipedia for personal attacks such as this, and that goes both ways as well. Having said that, it appears this editor is a new editor, and hence as BorisG notes, inexperience could be a factor here. The placement of the user on notice of discretionary sanctions has been done, and should be enough at this point of time; if they don't get it, they will be banned soon enough. Sanctions are supposed to be used for ongoing disruption. I don't see it at this point in time; they took the advice of User:Greyhood and have created Yuri Nikolayevitch Zhukov. I would suggest that BesterRus take strong heed of the warning, and I would further suggest that they post here at this request affirming that they understand that what they wrote is in essence a personal attack, and such things are not tolerated here on Wikipedia. I would also suggest that they affirm that failure to adhere to expected behavioural policies and guidelines will result in them being blocked and/or banned. This is the way that sanctions should work. Russavia Let's dialogue 19:20, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
The personal nature of BesterRus's attacks and attitude are deja vu all over again compared to prior editors (Jacob Peters, RJ CG,...). My experience in this topic area is that genuinely "new" editors don't immediately insert themselves into topic mediations (Holodomor) and launch into the worst kinds of personal ugliness. PЄTЄRS
Result concerning BesterRus
I'm holding on a block since the user hasn't been editing since this request is filed. Subsequent violations will be unlikely to be looked upon favorably. T. Canens (talk) 16:37, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
Arbitration enforcement action appeal by The Last Angry Man
|The Last Angry Man and Igny may participate in the mediation per the terms stated by Mkativerata. EdJohnston (talk) 01:38, 29 October 2011 (UTC)|
|The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.|
Statement by The Last Angry Man
I am requesting the topic ban be modified so both I and Igny may take part in the mediation currently underway here
Statement by Mkativerata
I simply re-iterate the comments I made at the request for Arbcom amendment here and make the contention that this appeal should be disposed of in the same way as the approach advocated by two arbitrators here. Having said that, I think this issue -- the lack of an exception to a topic ban that isn't itself the subject of an appeal -- has received a rather disproportionate level of attention and I'm certainly not going to die in a ditch over that aspect of my decision. --Mkativerata (talk) 22:31, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Steven Zhang
Statement by Russavia
Ummmm, is anyone ignoring the fact that TLAM is 110% a sockpuppet of User:Marknutley? Why on earth is ANY admin considering anything but placing a "Banned for sockpuppetry" notice on the userpage of TLAM.
I support a full lifting of the topic ban on Igny, in no small part due to the fact that if this disruptive sockpuppet wasn't editing (as they shouldn't be), none of the battleground would have existed in the first place.
Statement by Lothar von Richthofen
I don't think the current sanctions should be lifted. The mediation does not hinge on either editor's participation, and while it certainly would be very nice if they could participate, sanctions are sanctions. Well-deserved ones on both sides, at that. Not much more to say.
On a side note, Russavia's contention that there would be no battleground here without TLAM and that Igny is innocent of being a combative you-know-what would be knee-slappingly hilarious if it was not made in all seriousness. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 23:58, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Vecrumba
While I personally do not believe the sanctions against TLAM are justified, nor, having dealt with both TLAM and Marknutley, do I personally believe TLAM is anyone's sockpuppet, I suggest we all move on. Otherwise this will become yet another WP:BATTLEGROUND WP:SOAPBOX to berate admins to punish one editor while exonerating another when circumstances of behavior, objectively, don't support such contentions. PЄTЄRS
Statement by TransporterMan[This is just a slight reworking and abbreviation of what I said at the amendment request]
In some ways, the decision on this request goes to the positive and negative reasons for why DR exists and why it is here: to benefit Wikipedia by settling disputes, hopefully positively through consensus, but sometimes negatively by just getting them settled to stop the disruption. If we have editors who feel so strongly about this that they're just going to wait out their topic bans and start changing the article again, then the mediation is a waste of time without them. Getting them in and allowing them to help craft the solution at least potentially avoids that result. I therefore support the idea of allowing an exception to the topic ban for The Last Angry Man. The solutions to this request are becoming too complicated with a montoring sysop and double or nothing sanctions. The sanctions in question are a "voluntary" topic ban, in the sense that he has not been blocked and is capable of editing anywhere he pleases to do so. No one is officially or semi-officially monitoring TLAM on that ban at the present time. Various eyes could be watching, of course, but should he violate the ban it would far more likely that someone would just happen to have to come along, just happen to notice the violation, and choose to report it to AE. All we are requesting here is that the topic ban be relaxed for MedCab and that Steven (or perhaps any two of the three mediators if you do not want to just let one do it) be given the right to reinstitute the full breadth of the ban should TLAM's behavior deteriorate in any of those venues to the point the mediators feel that it is interfering with the mediation process, with the only needed action being:
Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by The Last Angry Man
Result of the appeal by The Last Angry Man
I would normally not be in favor of micromanaging the sanction, but Steven Zhang has been very insistent that this mediation needs to proceed now. I would not be opposed to lifting it with regards to the mediation only, and allow him or any other administrator to reimpose the full topic ban at their own discretion. NW (Talk) 20:54, 23 October 2011 (UTC)
Agree with Mkativerata re Tznkai's above comment. A topic ban is not an "extraordinary sanction" and there is not an additional burden of proof (beyond the comments already made by Mkativerata) on sysops enforcing discretionary sanctions here - these sanctions are called discretionary becuase they are at the sysop's discretion. (See here what two arbitrators' views on it are.) Furthermore making changes to policy that have no consensus (and the exceptions that you added to eth page, and others that were mentioned on the talk page had/has no consensus - clear consensus is required, and must be sought, for such a drastic change in policy) and then coming here apparently to test them out is, in the very least, unfair to both the sysop who enforced the sanction and the editor appealling it.
@TransporterMan: my logic for requiring T. Canens caveat (reset and double length of the topioc ban if misbehaviour occurs at the mediation) is this: Igny and TLAM have already done enough to get a 3 month ban. Further disruption (if it were to occur) would show contempt for Steven who requested this in good faith, those of us willing to offer them this relaxation in light of Steven's request, and for the general point of wikipedia's AGF policy & its dispute resolution processes. If that happened it would demonstrate to the community that this person 'hasn't got the message' and that even after Mkativerata's enforcement of the ArbCom ruling more remedies are required to prevent further disruption to WP. This isn't actually all that of a novel approach - when a user breaches a topic ban seriously this kind of sanction may occur, and when ArbCom unbans a user they may be placed on this kind of probation for a set length of time--Cailil talk 16:59, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
|Modinyr is restricted to 1RR per week for three months on the topic of the Arab-Israeli conflict. EdJohnston (talk) 02:14, 29 October 2011 (UTC)|
|The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.|
Request concerning Modinyr
The user, since registering this account, had been carrying out several slow-moving edit wars. The article Mahmoud Darwish is a prime example of the user's chosen method of editing. A review of the talk page will show that there are four users who agree with the material and the reliability of the sources, with Modinyr being the only user disputing what several reliable sources say and reverting ad infinitum to remove that material from the article. A request that the user cease edit warring was met with a claim that the accusation is baseless and the user making it is acting like a drama queen. That was followed by yet another revert of the exact same material (the last one in the Mahmoud Darwish list above)
At Arab citizens of Israel the user has repeatedly reverted without making any attempt to resolve the dispute on the talk page.
The user is seemingly incapable of accepting consensus and seems intent on reverting until he or she is able to exhaust other editors. One user should not be allowed to continue editing in such a manner, disregarding both the sources and every other user that has commented on the talk page. A past 1RR violation that the editor informed the user of was met with I was 18 minutes short. Whoops. This, and each of the reverts since coming off the 1RR block, shows the user views the use of a revert as an entitlement.
I also share Sean's concern about a connection with a past account, but I think Lutrinae is stale. I might open an SPI based on the behavioral evidence, but, like Sean, I cant bring myself to waste that much time on this editor.
Discussion concerning Modinyr
Statement by Modinyr
The attempt to paint me as an edit-warrior is untrue. I have been involved in several discussions and some of them have stretched the limits of civility, but none of them have resulted in disruption.
If you look at the examples Nableezy has provided, you will see that the revision history of Mahmoud Darwish is not edit warring. Me and the other editor were not unduing the same revert over and over. The sources say the town of Al-Birwa was destroyed. But an editor wanted to insert the OR claim that the Israeli Army purposefully destroyed the village.
Look at #17 October "...they returned to find that the village had been destroyed by Zionists." I removed this sentence. It is not encyclopedic nor verifiable.
Also, Nableezy claims that these two edits are the same and a violation of the 1RR rule. They are different edits...
All of my edits in the Mahmoud Darwish section were explained. Nableezy thinks I'm trying to hide the story of Al-Birwa's destruction. He doesn't realize that I've only been removing assumptions about WHO destroyed the village. It is not known if the village was destroyed during the fighting, or destroyed afterward. But Nableezy thinks he knows. He thinks because there are several sources that say "the village was destroyed" then that entitles Wikipedia to say "the village was destroyed by Zionists."
There has been discussion on the talk page. I've taken part. But it isn't true that four editors are in agreement. They all want mention of the destruction of Al-Birwa and so do I. But we aren't in agreement about who or what destroyed them. One source, a government sponsored newspaper from the corrupt, racist autocracy of U.A.E. says that the Zionists destroyed the village. That isn't a reliable source. Losts of gov't run Arab newspapers say that Jews assassinated Yassir Arafat. That doesn't mean it is a verifiable fact.
The second group of charges, that I've been interfering in Arab citizens of Israel is also false. As can be seen, the edits are several days apart. I gave an edit summary each time. It is true that neither I nor the other editor have used the talk page yet, but we aren't disruptive. If you look at my edit, you'll see I am trying to change loaded phrasings into a more neutral voice.
The charge that "The user, since registering this account, had been carrying out several slow-moving edit wars" is pure name-calling. Look at my contribs, they are mostly helpful, uncontroversial, and unopposed. A few edits, mostly in relation to Israel and Palestine, have brought some discussion, but I don't think it has been disruptive.
Nableezy wants the Mahmoud Darwish page to say "Zionists destroyed his home!" He finds it annoying that I require a source for this info. And a thousand newspapers that say "his house was destroyed" doesn't let anybody make OR assumptions about who did.
Look at the editing of Arab citizens of Israel and you will see the kind of weasel-words and non-encyclopedic language that Nableezy finds acceptable as long as it serves his worldview. Modinyr (talk) 22:36, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Modinyr
Comment by Sean.hoyland - Modinyr's approach to editing and the style of their interactions with other editors reminds me of the University of Hawaii based Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive92#Lutrinae. I don't know whether they are the same editor, or whether this edit about Hawaii or their interest in the Palestinian people article soon after they registered is a coincidence or a clue. If they were editing constructively I wouldn't care but frankly I'm reluctant to waste much time on this editor having already written them off, talking of name calling, as irredeemably deranged given the profoundly stupid comments they have made on my talk page at various times and their distinctly creepy interest in things like where my wife and I spent last weekend (no idea how that would help resolve the issue at the Mahmoud Darwish article).
The contrast between how they see their edits/comments and the actual edits/comments is quite stark.
One of the most bizarre aspects of this editor is the way he seems to see his arguments at the Mahmoud Darwish article and elsewhere as if he is trying to avoid unsourced assumptions and yet he makes ludicrous evidenceless assumptions about the state of mind and nature of the editors he deals with as a matter of routine. He has done it again here about Nableezy. He will keep doing it until someone stops him. Editors shouldn't have to put up with editors like Modinyr in the topic area. An SPI report may be worthwhile to establish whether this is a new incarnation of Lutrinae but frankly I just can't be bothered to waste anymore time on this guy. Sean.hoyland - talk 08:34, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
This is baseless mud-throwing. First off, associating me with another editor is a flimsy arguement and a dirty trick. It certainly isn't appropriate for another editor to refer to another editors wife, but I've never done that. I don't know why Sean would throw an accusation like that.
A lot of my editing is getting rid of polemic language. Look at the "Arab citizens of Israel" page. Look at the editting I was trying to do. Nableezy said I was "edit warring without respite." On the Arab citizens of Israel page I just started a talk page discussion, not a revert. I only did three changes and explained myself all three times. Besides, the edits were for neutral language. It isn't "blatant POV pushing" like Sean says.
Sean did bring 6 sources to the arguement. But none of them proved what Ghilbert was trying to say. Just because you brought a bunch of sources that say "Paris is the capital of France," doesn't mean you can use those sources to say "Paris is the city of light." In the third bullet point, Sean removed the word "convicted" from an article and I restored it. The source that is used plainly uses the words "convicted criminals." So Sean removed the sourced information and said I "didn't even read the source because the information I removed wasn't in the source." This is just false.
I did not remove the reference to the destruction of the town.  clearly shows that. The article still says "razed and destroyed" by the IDF. What I removed was this phrase
..to prevent its inhabitants from returning to their homes inside the new Jewish state.
Last Angry's sources and the others definately verify that the village was destroyed. But one obituary, found in a state-soapbox newspaper, claimed that the IDF was spitefully destroying the town to prevent return. The reporter was taking a guess about the thoughts of IDF commanders in the late 40's that I don't think an encyclopedia article should mention.
I removed a statement from an unreliable source while leaving in the consensus that the town was destroyed. Look at talk:Mahmoud Darwish. You will see Last Angry say his sources, "... say quite clearly that the town was razed by the IDF, please stop removing this reliably sourced content." I am not removing mention of the destruction of Birwa by the IDF. I am removing bad content and explaining why on the talk page.
If you are an admin and would like to take action, please review the accusations and I think you will see that these are trumped up charges and strawman arguments directed against an inexperienced but well-intentioned editor. Modinyr (talk) 22:44, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning Modinyr
|Blocked one week by T. Canens. EdJohnston (talk) 23:10, 29 October 2011 (UTC)|
|The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.|
Request concerning Jonchapple
All articles related to The Troubles, defined as: any article that could be reasonably construed as being related to The Troubles, Irish nationalism, and British nationalism in relation to Ireland falls under WP:1RR (one revert per editor per article per 24 hour period). When in doubt, assume it is related.
Terms of probation Participants placed on probation are limited to one revert per article per week with respect to the set of articles included in the probation. Any participant may be briefly banned for personal attacks or incivility. Reversion of edits by anonymous IPs do not count as a revert.
Jonchapple is topic banned from articles relating to The Troubles, as well as the Ulster banner and British baronets, broadly construed, for a period of three months.11:39, 20 October 2011
However since filing this report, I've discovered that the Editor is well aware of the issues involved  and the articles to avoide, with the advice of KillerChihuahua here and their advice here. With additional advice being offered here being ignored on issues of "Nationality"here on "Nationality"here on "Nationality"on Ulsteron Flagson Northern Irelandon IrishWaterways IrelandUlster MuseumIrish Nationalityprovocative comments on Editorsprovocative RedirectNorthern IrelandUK / Northern Irelandon Nationalityon Nationalityprovocative RedirectHistory of Northern IrelandNationality.
The Editor, have given an undertaking to be civil and not to engage in personal attacks to avoid a topic ban has opted instead to assumptions of bad faith as seen here, in response to my notifying them of this report and here, in response to edits I made on this article here. Having been placed on probation limiting them to 1RR per week, they have ignored that as the diff's for this report above clearly illustrate. They are then Topic Banned and decide to ignore this also as noted in the above diff's in this section.
Discussion concerning Jonchapple
Statement by Jonchapple
Comments by others about the request concerning Jonchapple
Could admins clarify how a topic banned editor is allowed to continue to edit the talk page of articles covered by the ban? It could be seen, not saying it is, as an attempt to hinder consensus building by editors who aren't topic banned. If the editor is allowed to still argue for British, Irish or whatever then how is it a topic ban? Mo ainm~Talk 19:20, 29 October 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning Jonchapple
|First blocked 3 days for 1RR violation, then indeffed as a sock per CU evidence. Master blocked a week. T. Canens (talk) 13:47, 31 October 2011 (UTC)|
|The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.|
Request concerning George45646
I feel fairly confident that the below reverts by IPs are also by George45646
Much like the account David9991 , abandoned after being blocked for violating the 1RR at the same page, this account is a single purpose account that is focused on both removing any material he or she perceives to be negative about Ariel University Center and on turning other parts of the article into a vehicle for promotion. I personally think a topic ban from Ariel University Center of Samaria and related edits is called for.
Discussion concerning George45646
Statement by George45646
Comments by others about the request concerning George45646
Result concerning George45646
|Four editors topic-banned. T. Canens (talk) 16:49, 9 November 2011 (UTC)|
|The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.|
Request concerning PCPP
PCPP has an extensive history of problematic editing, most of which appears on Falungong pages, though he occasionally displays similar tendencies on other pages related to China. His point of view is distinctly non-neutral, and he seeks ever to try to diminish criticisms of the Communist Party of China, to highlight criticisms of Falungong, and delete content that depicts the suppression of Falungong by the Communist Party. Everyone has a point of view, of course, but PCPP pursues his in a uniquely disruptive and tendentious way characterised by edit waring, constant reverting and deletion of content without discussion, misleading edit summaries, and personal attacks against those who disagree with him. His user talk page is a testament to this pattern of disruptive editing; it is riddled with cease and desist requests, warnings, blocks, and temporary topic bans for his editing on Falungong-related pages. He was subject to a four-month topic ban beginning February of this year (the arbitrary request is here). After a period of minimal activity, he recently returned to editing Falungong in a disruptive manner. Given his extensive history of tendentious editing, which has been documented and described at length before, I will only present evidence here of his behaviour since his last topic ban, presented in chronological order:
Every editor has a point of view, but most at least strive to make neutral edits, to achieve things through consensus, and engage in discussions when they find that they are in disagreement over their contributions. PCPP does not do this, and his edits consistently serve to advance a partisan perspective. What is more troubling, however, is that PCPP pursues his partisan interests unilaterally, always with minimal discussion, and with remarkable aggression toward other editors and normal editing processes. In this case, he has not allowed any other editor to edit the page; no matter how seemingly innocuous or minor, he has reverted every change.
This is PCPP's first foray back into editing Falungong articles since his last topic ban. The above collection of evidence should, in my view be more than enough to justify an indefinite topic ban (4 reverts, almost no discussion, no substantive response to legitimate questions, and plenty of accusations of bad faith and personal attacks). But just in case anyone believes it is insufficient, I would remind those reviewing the case that he has an extensive history of disruptive editing. After his last topic ban he should have mended his ways, yet this most recent exchange demonstrates that his propensity for tendentious, aggressive editing, and his penchant for repeated reversions with little or no discussion has not been rectified. His MO has changed slightly; where previously he would only delete content, this time around he has taken to a combination of deletion things he doesn't like and adding other material to advance his POV. Yet his approach to the community, to other users, his disregard for good faith discussion, and his willingness to edit war and accuse others are unchanged. As sanctions are intended to be preventative, and PCPP has not changes his editing habits, it can only be expected that he will continue editing in the disruptive manner described here. I would also note that, before his return, the Falungong article was stable, and the involved editors had been able to work together with minimal conflict to greatly improve it. PCPP's presence marked the return of incivility, and leads to a toxic environment where no consensus is possible, and no other editors may contribute to the page without being summarily reverted by PCPP. I would recommend a permanent topic ban, possibly extending to a community-wide ban.
Discussion concerning PCPP
Statement by PCPP
I find this particular AE request completely unwarranted and in bad faith. Fact is, from February of this year until October, I have not even touched once Falun Gong related article. In the few disputes that I had, I actively engaged with the users on the talk page with civilty, such as a nationalistic content dispute on the China-Korea relations article  and asked for admin advise on guidelines referring to article content .
To address Zujine's allegations:
1)I only edited the Expo 2010 article twice, with many weeks in between. Homunculus insisted in adding critical information regarding attendence in the main article, when in fact a separate article already exist for the very purpose, with the very same information, as several other editors had pointed out.
2)Everything I added to the FLG article in September were sourced to reliable sources, and a good faith attempt to introduce alternate perspectives. I have not "deleted information related to mainstream scholars", as Zujine claimed. The previous version's controversy section frankly does not follow article guidelines, where FLG's controversies were portrayed as being manufactured by the PRC government, ie an opening critical statement gets dismissed with two supportive statements. I rewrote the section so that the particular controversy gets noted, and highlighted both perspectives without favoring one or another, as any "controversy" section should.
I find Zujine's so called "breakdown"  of my edits rather hostile in nature. He makes a big deal over the fact that I summarized a sentence from "mainstream religions such as Christianity, Islam, and Buddhism" to "mainstream religions such as Christianity and Islam". Furthermore, in regards to a statement sourced to the New York Times, he keeps claiming that the author's statements are "imflamatory" while demanding primary evidence linking to FLG lectures, which clearly violates original research policies.
3)For that particular edit, I simply summarized the previous paragraphs, replaced the FLG source with a mainstream report, and drew attention to the fact these lawsuits are, as admitted by FLG themselves, to be largely symbolic and that no arrests are likely to be made. Furthermore, going by the original article, User:Homunculus was warned  for misintepreting the source article and stating that the Chinese officials were "found guilty", when they were simply indicted.
4)In contray to Zujine's claims, Olaf's October 17 revert  restored the original "controversy" section, removing everything I added, and did not "add in additional content", as Zujine claims. In the talk page, he made several ad hominem attacks on the author, claiming that he's "very partisan" and a "mouthpiece for the CCP" . Later, he also tried to introduce personal anecdotes as a practitioner as "evidence" .
5)As for Homunculus, he added fuel to the fire by reverting two additional times . In the talk page, he accused me of violating WP:BLP and WP:UNDUE, and "removing content" , despite the fact that this article isn't coved by WP:BLP, and my additions were the ones being removed. In my opinion, he believes that his reverts are justified as "right" reverts , while mine are "wrong" reverts, and even asked an admin to restore the page to his "right" version 
6)I simply referred to Olaf as a "known activist" and a valid COI concern, which is based on his previous case , in which he was banned for 6 months and the closing admin noted "He also rather often indicates that he is a practicioner of the movement, indicating a very realistic WP:COI concern".
7)Zujine's October 23 edits were actually a partial revert, , in which he restored numerous paragraphs in the controversy section to the previous version, and deleted the NYT article while a discussion was going on.
I find Zujine and Homunculus's behavior hard to work with, especially their partisan attitudes in this very request accusing me of trying to "diminish criticisms of the Communist Party of China." The fact is, I have tried to engage in discussions under tremendous stress, and even tried to introduce some outside opinions via RFC. I feel that no sufficient consensus has been demonstrated due to the lack of editors.
Going by the numerous issues in the past, the Falun Gong articles are highly controversial, and almost devoid of neutrality despite numerous attempts in the past at mediation. I do not enjoy editing these articles at all, and would have gladly left upon even the smallest editorial oversight. I edit these article on a vain but good faith attempt to improve its neutrality issues and provide a balanced POV. However I feel that these Zujine and Homunculus are deliberate hounding me based on my editing history on the Falun Gong pages, showing up in every dispute I've had in the past year and taking the opposite POV, and willingly engaging in reverts wars, based on the perspective that they're "right" and I'm "wrong", and that somehow I'm trying to advance the causes of the CCP. Almost all the time I find that my edits getting merciless reverted by these two, causing me endless distress in real life. I do not enjoy in edit warring, but am simply defending my right to edit the FLG articles without these two showing up every moment and undoing everything.--PCPP (talk) 18:11, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning PCPP
I participated in the previous AE against the user, and as nothing has changed, I am pasting my previous comment below my assessment of the current situation. I think it summarizes my feelings well. With respect to recent events, in particular, I would like to draw attention to the following:
Here are my comments from the previous AE case:
Personally I find all this very unsavory. But I am involved, so I should probably speak up. In my various interactions with PCPP, I have tried to hold my tongue and avoid accusations of bad faith. This is not because I have the slightest regard for this individual, though, or for his intentions. I have encountered this editor on several articles related to either Communist Party history or Falun Gong, and have found him to be exclusively concerned with massaging the image of the Communist Party and maligning Falun Gong, in spite of any facts that may stand in the way. I cannot recall one instance in which he contributed in a productive way, let alone an objective way, to these articles. He mainly deletes content, and when challenged, he is typically unable to offer a reasonable defense for doing so. He does make numerous weak attempts to justify his edits, consuming much time; his recent reverts on List of wars and anthropogenic disasters by death toll is a good example of how he’ll delete with one excuse, and when it is shot down, he will simply embrace another justification for deletion, and another, and another... By the end, he is arguing that Falun Gong should not be on a list of genocides because the National Endowment for Democracy is an American propaganda agency, or because David Ownby has not said it is a genocide (even though Ownby states that he is not an expert on the human rights issues related to Falun Gong, but instead on the religious and historical context surrounding it). It's exhausting. As inhumane as it may be, my problem is not with this editor’s ideological bias per se. Nor do I care that he has recently taken to accusing me of bad faith. My problem is with the means he uses to advance his point of view, which include blanket and repeated reversions without discussion, editing against consensus, leveling personal attacks against editors who disagree with his aggressive behavior, misrepresenting sources, cloaking controversial edits under innocuous edit summaries, and deleting anything that does not comport with his view of the world. I can imagine that cognitive dissonance is a difficult thing to live with. It’s hard to accept that Mao Zedong is not a saint, and that innocent people are victimized by the Communist Party. But I would recommend that the best way to cope is to try accepting facts, rather than deleting them from wikipedia in a vain and annoying attempt to shape the world to accord with one’s personal beliefs. Asdfg was concerned that in filing this request for arbitration, PCPP would attempt to distract from his own behavior by drawing attention to Asdfg’s history. I was prepared to file this request in his stead, because I do not want the conversation to be derailed. I have wasted enough time unpacking the specious arguments that PCPP offers to support his indefensible position on these topics. Homunculus (duihua) 22:55, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
I have been involved with these pages on and off for the past 5-6 years. During this period of time, the pages have undergone huge changes, and their balance has been periodically altered by people who have sought to advance their own ideological agenda. Having a post-graduate background in cultural studies and comparative religion, I have been pleased with many editors' willingness to search for highest quality sources and engage in scrutinous, policy-compliant discussion on the talk page. Unfortunately, PCPP has not been one of these editors. Ever since he appeared a few years ago, his struggle to whitewash the Communist Party's human rights violations and create a tabloid style "exposé" of Falun Gong has been highly disconcerting for a large number of Wikipedians. The active group of editors has varied over the years, but no matter who they have been, the people who stand in favour of a scholarly, well-sourced and encyclopaedic article have been frustrated by PCPP's ideological edit warring, lack of reasoning, overall inability to discuss his modifications, and outright dismissal of sound arguments. The above editors (Homunculus and Zujine) were not at all involved in the fierce debates and arbitration cases that I went through several years ago, but I am in no way surprised that they seem to have formed an equally negative impression of PCPP and his misdeeds. Considering that PCPP has already been topic banned for several months and has apparently not learned his lessons, I leave it up to the arbitrators to decide whether he is capable of editing this group of articles at all. ✔ Olaf Stephanos ✍ 14:25, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
I will briefly comment on how OhConfucius seeks to discredit me below. Firstly, the articles in their present state do not contain a single sentence added by me. Secondly, I have always, always insisted on scholarly sources, preferably peer-reviewed journals. I don't remember ever adding anything from Clearwisdom or the Epoch Times; correct me if I'm wrong. Thirdly, I have a degree of academic competence in this area, and that certainly qualifies me as someone who can and should take part in editing these articles. Fourthly, my discussions on the talk page have been scrutinous and intelligent, and I have apologized for and refrained from the sarcasm and occasional incivility that lead into my ban more than two years ago. My main interest is in editing Falun Gong related pages on this encyclopedia, but I hope you can recognize that a spiritual believer is capable of making valuable contributions to pages on their religion, just as a Chinese person has unique insight in and may exclusively concern themselves in editing pages related to China. I hope that my personal beliefs will not be used as an ad hominem means of discrediting me, as that would seem to be in contravention with WP:NPA. I have not edit warred or engaged in disruptive behaviour, and my discourse is academic. Fifthly, this arbitration enforcement case is not about me. It has been initiated by editors who are not Falun Gong practitioners and were not involved in our previous grudges. ✔ Olaf Stephanos ✍ 15:47, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
Olaf lacks all credibility. He is a self-admitted Falun Gong practitioner who constantly wikilawyers for acceptability of sources favourable to the FLG cause, and tries to disqualify or otherwise remove those that are even remotely critical, yet he has the temerity to say he stands "in favour of a scholarly, well-sourced and encyclopaedic article", and accuse PCCP of attempting to "advance their own ideological agenda". Olaf himself is a strong advocate for Falun Gong, and one of the movement's most durable contributors; he seems incapable of accepting any position about Falun Gong other than what emanates from Clearwisdom or Epoch Times. An examination of his contributions history shows Olav is solely interested in Falun Gong articles. Over the years, he has aided and abetted other radicals such as Dilip rajeev (talk · contribs) and asdfg12345 (talk · contribs) in turning the family of articles into glossy brochures for the movement. Olaf has not made any demonstrable attempt at integrating or interacting with the community at large, except at Arbcom-related venues, where he himself has been topic-banned for six months. His comments should be looked at in context. --Ohconfucius ¡digame! 15:18, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
Yes, I agree with Colipon, and would gladly offer myself up for an indefinite topic ban. If they do topic ban us all, it'll be highly symbolic message that there is zero tolerance of religious devotees and sceptics trying to disrupt wikipedia and drive coaches and horses through WP:NPOV through repeated lawyering, tendentious editing, edit warring, incivilities and personal attacks. If they don't the only solution would be to lock down the articles permanently. Topic bans for all wouldn't need to go back to Arbcom. But do they have the guts... --Ohconfucius ¡digame! 01:39, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
I am often alerted to PCPP's disputes with various Falun Gong disciples through the various RfCs he brings. PCPP is not unwilling to use the talk page, but he tries to address the fact that such discussions often feature the same people, same arguments, and same personal attacks against PCPP that we see here (of his being a Communist Party stooge, etc), in ways some more polite than others.
The picture that the submitter paints of some aggressive, uncompromisable ideologue is not one that people outside of the dichotomous Falun Gong worldview usually find through interaction with PCPP. To take myself as an example, PCPP's reverts at Expo 2010 are portrayed by Zujine as having driven Homunculus away from the page. But as the two sections of expired RfC discussion show, all uninvolved commentators, including myself and excluding a Falun Gong SPA, agreed with PCPP's decision, and a substantial portion of us believed that Homunculus had manipulated the source and weight in his erstwhile addition.
The key is that PCPP is not a unilateral editor. As the last vanguard of a knowledgable perspective on Falun Gong independent of the religious and political interests that seek to bolster its image, every one of his edits are scrutinized and his talk page littered with threats, demands, and ultimatums enough to drive any user to rash editing. Yet throughout all of this, PCPP has no habit of breaking consensuses on content controversies established with the input of outsiders; in fact he tries to facilitate such consensuses through RfCs.
The limit of PCPP's "tendentious" editing is changing text while it is under discussion (most Falun Gong topics, it seems, are under perpetual discussion). Zujine can't take the moral high ground there, as he used the same tactic just a day before filing this request. The fact that Zujine and Homunculus can't interact civilly with PCPP says more about them than it does about PCPP. Quigley (talk) 01:58, 25 October 2011 (UTC)
As a user who has contributed significantly to these pages, and has played a major role on building articles like the Kilgour Matas Report, in my opinion, the user under scrutiny should be carefully judged based solely on the evidence presented and evidence from previous RFCs on him/her. Deviating attention from this, saying another editor is such and such - is of little or no use, unless one is trying to defend the clearly disruptive behavior for which evidence has been presented.
Even if it be the case that there are genuine concerns on other editors, we can address them in separate RFCs. In my experience with PCPP what I have experienced is repeated, whole-scale blanking of content added to pages on issues related to Chinese communist violations of human rights - which includes a lot of highly sourced content I have attempted to add to certain topics related to China. The user refuses to give any explanation, and tends to blank out info under edit summaries that mislead. To claim the user has "no habit of breaking census" is a bit of a stretch. The number of users active on these articles who have raised concerns along similar lines as the user who files this complaint isn't few. The number of RFCs raised against the user, and the evidence presented there-in is sufficient un-substantiate arguments made in support of the user, And every time cases were raised, attention was deviated from the user's disruptive patterns of editing through personal allegations raised against contributors, allegation which attack them personally, ignoring the merit of their contributions, ignoring the extent of the quality academic research that went into their contributions, and the quality of their contributions that has played a major role in making these articles reflect academia, rather than the [ communist propaganda machine]. I hope a similar attention-diversion to an impertinent debate does not happen in this thread. That the substance of the concerns raised will be objectively weighed, based on recent and old evidence, and concrete action taken, as found necessary.
Among the many articles, PCCP has worked to remove information critical of the CCP, is the [610 Office] article. Here, Quigley, an editor who supports PCPP above, entirely distorts the lead of the article 50 Cent Party, to make it sound "softer" to them and quite distorting an objective lead.
It is also to be noted that both Oconfucious and PCPP maintains hatred inducing rants against Falun Dafa, a peaceful practice for mind body cultivation, whose adherents are persecuted to death in China. Is it humane to do that? Is that what wikipedia userpages are for?
Here is a collation of evidence I had presented against PCPP on March 2010, which I request is please reviewed. A lot of evidence went unanalyzed: http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement&oldid=348756921#PCPP , which includes content blanking on 6-10 Office 6 times, in a short period, with no explanations given. The thread went unattended for some reason, back then.
Editors have to be judged by the merit of their contributions. If you would kindly take time to go through edits outlined in the expandable box above, you may understand why I present them here. If I may be banned for edits dating over a year,from 2007, why is it so outrageous to present evidence just a few months old? As for maintaining what they call "rants" on their talk pages, there are strong violations of wiki policies there, including against living people. How about maintain a rant against Jews or Christians on the user page? You must know better than me what talk pages are for and are not for. For all the evidence presented here, against a particular user - the consequence is a bunch of other editors are banned for what has been stamped "POV" pushing. Their contributions have consistently been sourced to western academia, and western press. They come across as the opposite of a bunch who insists on using sources from communist party propaganda, sources which may even involve things like Dalai Lama "looting temples" and "eating babies"[ source:, People's Daily ]. They are for sure pushing a point of view starkly opposite to that of the so called "anti" bunch of editors, and they are doing so by virtue of insisting on sources in the western press, and western academia at large. If pushing that "POV" is a crime they stand guilty as accused. Editors who are constantly attempting to get others banned [offering them on the woodblock and whatever to make demonstrations of their "neutrality," if you could see through it, are merely desperately attempting to get a bunch of editors banned, and they will be back on socks and through other channels]. "50 cent party" is a term used by the press, and even in the academia, "pejorative" or not is a subjective thing, and depends on perspective. What they are and what they do is what matters. The above users' comparison of groups persecuted by a regime to Scientology, etc., are not substantiated by any academic research, and conflicts with academia, and amounts to mere labels slapped here to rally opinion against people who do not align in the "POV" with communist propagandistic viewpoint. If there were evidence of strong misconduct I would have accepted a 1 year ban on myself - not for pointing out things like reverts involving blanking of 22K of sourced material, and then refusing to give any explanation, whatsoever.
The so called pro group has been, when it comes to edits, consistently insisting on use of western academia, human rights sources like Amnesty, HRW, independent experts in the field, and avoid communist party propaganda on Wikipedia. There has been another group who attempts to define themselves as the opposite of this group - and what they oppose is their insistence on the use western sources, in aligning the articles to western research - not to claims made by a Chinese propaganda apparatus, which include things like comparison to Scientology and stuff made by the same set of editors here. They have in their interactions on wikipedia, openly rallied for "war" against this "pro" group of editors. And there exist plenty evidence of their forming a cabal, making baseless accusations, opposing even sources like Amnesty, calling it a mere "advocacy group[claim from OConfucious]," slandering people like David Matas and David Kilgour ( User:PCPP ) . Of course I have opposed all that, and sometimes I have done so in a strong manner. But I have adapted my approach more and more into avoiding any conflict, with any other editor. And if for that reason you must ban me, I would rather not be contributing to a place where the rules work such.
OConfucious, PCPP, Colipon, Quigley, and a couple of others have consistently worked to attack people contributing to this pages - worked to systematically remove, and remove evidence of their removal [ through page moves, page renaming, etc.Persecution of Falun Gong page, with over a hundred western sources, each line sourced, was ripped apart, moved into "History of Falun Gong." A previous page on "Organ Harvestation from Falun gong practitioners in China" was similarly ripped apart, and deleted by generating consensus there was nothing on the ripped apart page, and them ridiculously claiming there was no sources or evidence of it happening, given in the article [ all good sources were systematically deleted from it.]. It was later restored by my effort, with the support and mentorship of other admins, intoKilgour-Matas report .. an attempt which the same bunch of editors attempted to scuttle as well ], almost all well sourced content on these pages including from the most respected human rights sources in the western world. They are the ones who have an agenda - and if I hold an agenda here, it is one of aligning these pages to the western academia, and I am by no means ashamed to admit it. And the evidence there of, is in my edit history. They define themselves as my "opposite" because its the very same set of sources they seek push out of the article in favor of things from what has been labelled by Reporters Sans Frontiers, as the "world's biggest propaganda machine." Dilip rajeev (talk) 15:16, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
I hope everything her happens through a process, through evidence presented in the public, and as per relevant wiki policies. In the beginning I had said attention should be on the edits, and their merits. Not on other things. Here the purpose of this thread was to scrutinize a particular editor's work, and now we are without a process and for random labels slapped, and on the basis of subjective brackets attempting to do things - that as per my understanding hardly aligns with wiki policies - and a process is lacking here.
These editors on whom there have been recent admin reviews did not suddenly now become a new problem when evidence was presented against PCPP. Why is that the reviewing admin repeatedly ignores the massive pile of evidence against PCPP, including in the collapsible box above, and continues to ignore the fact that editors are being marginalized based on personal attacks - completely ignoring the merits or teh quality of their contributions? A bunch of personal accusations is little reason to act against any editor. I hope no admin makes descisions on teh basis of that. Evidence of recent wrong[as per WP guildelines] behavior, and behavior which the user has refused to correct beside repeated warnings - that is the basis on which any action may be taken against editors. Please kindly correct me if my understanding of how things are here is wrong.
Let individual editors here go through a process where evidence is presented him/her, and let him/her have the chance to defend himself/herself. I am not going to put myself up here for whatever,... the "pov" someone says I hold in my head, and which they cant seem to argue shows in my edits or even recent edits? Or am I getting banned because I have not edited since last September as the reviewing admin admits below? Or was my crime presenting evidence on this thread? Evidence which is being again completely ignored, and covered up by attack[with no focus on edits] and slander as I said would happen, in my first comment here itself.
Here, again, is a sampling of what PCPP does, in edits as recent as you attempt to ban me for, if you would care to review and comment on since that's what we are meant to do in this thread.
Comments by ColiponI could not help it but revisit this and give you administrators some suggestions. I was involved with the article sometime in 2007 and again in 2009-10. I stopped editing all Falun Gong related articles in early 2010, much like user OhConfucius, because I could no longer stand the SPAs, edit wars, personal attacks, and lengthy sessions of ideological battles veiled as "policy" or "content" discussions. Many other editors report the same experiences.
I could not care less if you sanction user PCPP. He has edit warred. He has broken WP rules. He has exchanged personal attacks with Falun Gong supporters. He is not always civil. What have you. Ban him from the site. Or from China-related articles. In fact, ban User OhConfucius too, from editing the Falun Gong family of articles. He would probably be thankful. Hell, ban me from editing these godforsaken articles.
Let me put it out there for you that this is not a battle of Pro-Falun Gong and Anti-Falun Gong. It is merely an article that badly needs work and revisions from committed third parties who are totally uninvolved in its history, who have no emotional attachment to its content. I have been trying to put forth this suggestion since 2007, and Wiki adminstration and bureaucracy has been woefully ineffective in taking action. We've visited noticeboards, put up arbitration requests, sanctioned a slew of users, put up ANIs, and pulled all parts of wiki-bureaucracy into the storm. But nothing has been done. Why? I attribute this to the fact that most Wiki administrators know little about Falun Gong, whereas a similar case involving Scientology years earlier proved decisive because of its cultural proximity to Wikipedia's home base.
That the committed Falun Gong team of editors has come to portray this as a war of "pro" and "anti" Falun Gong is a victory for them in and of itself. Please do not be fooled. The problems on this article will not be solved until you ban all the problematic users for good, and I am even offering myself up to the chopping block just so Wikipedia can achieve NPOV on this sensitive topic. For those who say that I am an "anti-Falun Gong" editor, I hope the message is clear. I have enough faith that third-party editing to the article will achieve the same degree of neutrality that I myself have tried to achieve during my involvement there, that I am able to opt out of such an editing process altogether. Can any "pro-Falun Gong" editors say the same? I dare you to say yes so you can prove yourselves to be "neutral" parties. I hope after reading this you will get some sense of who is "right" and "wrong" in this case, and act boldly to fix this problem once and for all. Colipon+(Talk) 00:36, 28 October 2011 (UTC)
I am as ready as anyone to put this issue to rest and get back to regular editing, but I just want to make sure I understand proposal below. Are you saying that three editors—against whom no evidence of recent wrongdoing has been presented, and who were not given a chance to defend themselves—are being banned indefinitely? One of the Falungong editors was not involved in this AE, and has not been even been notified that he/she is being scrutinised for a ban. Is that normal? I suppose they will be in for quite a shock when they awake one day to find that they have been banned for, what, being inactive for a long time? Engaging in talk page discussions on Falungong? Only one editor has engaged in disruptive behaviour here; the others, while still SPAs, have not been disruptive; they have largely (if not entirely) confined their contributions to talk pages, from what I can tell. OhConfucius, I think a more appropriate parallel would be to compare Falungong editors to members of other historically maligned and persecuted religious groups. Jews and Bahai's, for instance. I assume the analogy you drew to climate change deniers was not a deliberate attempt to marginalise people on the basis of their religious belief, because that would not seem very conducive to a positive or welcoming editing environment.—Zujine|talk 03:52, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
Comment by HappyInGeneral
Comment by John Carter
I don't know whether I would be considered involved in this matter or not, so I am adding my own comments here. I agree that there has been a notable lack of civility on the part of many, maybe even most, editors who have been involved in Falun Gong related material. Who "started" it? God knows. But for some time many, maybe even most, editors have been involved in less than stellar conduct, at some time or other, regarding this material. There are significant disagreements over what qualifies as the "best" sources, and I get the impression that, over time, both "sides" have held the position that the sources they find most acceptable are the best sources. FG supporters like the Journal of Church and State, which tends to present material in a way rather sympathetic to FG, others prefer other journals. Honestly, I myself think, possibly, the best approach would probably be to have a significant number of editors who are not directly involved attacking the content. I have over a thousand articles from various sources, and would be happy to forward them all, or any requested, to interested individuals for review in determining the content of the related articles. But I am not sure how imposing discipline on this one editor being considered, without perhaps similar disciplines on other editors, will necessarily be of any particular benefit to the project. John Carter (talk) 23:31, 31 October 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning PCPP
Writing up some conclusions I've reached:
Very limited edits since topic ban. Involved in a complicated revert war in August 2010, then almost entirely dormant until October 24 of this year. I find this edit to be rather tendentious, as it is seeming pushing an agenda without any regard to the quality of the prose.
This case involves a serious intractable dispute between several editors, dating back to 2007. My review convinces me that the dispute can possibly be resolvable through the usual editorial process, if the POV-pushing elements and the battleground behavior are removed. I'm also highly concerned about how several dormant editors suddenly returned to comment on this thread. To me this suggests either off-wiki canvassing, or serious battleground behavior. Neither is acceptable. This dispute has gone on long enough, and it needs to end. Judging from our experienced with timed sanctions in this area, I don't think they were very successful. The four editors listed above were all topic banned before, but all we got seems to be more of the same. Unless an uninvolved admin objects, I plan to impose the following sanctions (the minimum length below doubles the length of their most recent topic ban, except for Dilip rajeev, for whom I'm convinced that one year is the appropriate minimum considering the history):