Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive11

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Grandmaster[edit]

User Grandmaster was a party to both Armenia-Azerbaijan and Armenia-Azerbaijan 2 ArbCom cases. According to the remedies imposed on him in these cases, Grandmaster is subject to supervised editing and "is limited to one revert per page per week, excepting obvious vandalism. Further, he is required to discuss any content reversions on the page's talk page."

In the Nagorno-Karabakh_Republic article, Grandmaster made a revert without discussing it on the talk page. Here is his revert: [1]

It's a partial revert of the article introduction to a prior version. The prior version can be seen here: [2]

In his revert, he basically restored the phrase "within the borders of Azerbaijan," which had been previously changed to "entirely surrounded by Azerbaijan" in the following edit by me: [3].

Note that partial restorations of text--i.e. partial reverts, are still considered reverts: "However, in the context of the English Wikipedia three revert rule, a revert is defined far more broadly as any change to an article that partially or completely goes back to any older version of an article." (Wikipedia:Revert)

Grandmaster failed to accompany his revert on the talk page, as required by the ArbCom decision.

Note that Grandmaster's comment on the talk page ([4]) does not satisfy this requirement, since he made that comment only in response to User:Steelmate's post on the talk page ([5]), after User:Steelmate had already reverted Grandmaster's revert ([6]) and discussed it on the talk page.

Here are the edit histories for the Nagorno-Karabakh_Republic article ([7]) and the relevant talk page ([8]).

--TigranTheGreat (talk) 18:48, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

First of all, it is not a revert, second, I left a comment. Frivolous report. Grandmaster (talk) 07:56, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

If that is a revert, if Grandmaster didn't leave a comment exactly as he should - there's too many ifs in there, so I'm not really inclined to block for such a technical infraction, particularly in the context of the article just being split off from another and tempers raging rather high at the moment. Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 15:55, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Mediation by Moreschi on Armenia-Azerbaijan related articles[edit]

In thread below, User:Moreschi kindly proposed to mediate and arbitrate in Armenia-Azerbaijan related articles. I think it's better if other contributors present their thoughts here in support or opposition of the proposal. Thanks. Atabek (talk) 00:25, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Atabek's request, and Moreschi's offer (which several users have rejected, considering the existing mediation by Golbez) needs to be considered in its context. The relevant accusations and responses appear on the ANI page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Golbez_and_VartanM), and should be read by those considering Atabek's request. Basically, Golbez has been mediating on the Nagorno-Karabakh article. Following extremely disruptive edits and posts by Atabek, Golbez made it known that Atabek's inputs are not welcome, as they are provocative. As I and other users (such as Steelemate) have stated, fulfilling Atabek's request will be tantamount to rewarding a disruptive editor who tries to push away a mediator with whom he disagrees. Therefore, and given Golbez' current mediation, I and other users have respectfully rejected Moreschi's offer. We may welcome him in the future.--TigranTheGreat (talk) 02:11, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Tigran, what makes you think that you and Steelmate are not disruptive while I am? Just the fact that Golbez and you are on one side of content dispute and I, along with few other contributors, am on the other does not suffice to call me disruptive. So assume good faith. Also, I believe this thread only asked for points explaining the rejection of Moreschi's kind offer (it's not an easy task to mediate and arbitrate this conflict) endorsed by at least 2 administrators at WP:ANI. Thanks. Atabek (talk) 09:17, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree that Golbez should step down as a mediator on NK and other Armenia - Azerbaijan related articles. So far not a single Azerbaijani contributor agreed to his mediation. I agree that Moreschi or any other third party contributor takes up the role of mediator. Grandmaster (talk) 08:40, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
I am dissatisfied with Golbez's mediation. He frequently resorts to spinosity and can get emotional - something mediators should avoid at all costs. I do not have anything against Moreschi taking over as a mediator. Parishan (talk) 09:44, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Is Parishan really dissatisfied of Golbez mediation? I wonder when was the last time he was engaged in any mediation to be dissatisfied? His participation on NK was basically reverting to Grandmasters position and sometimes providing a line or two, when he was criticized that he does not comment. Only after Atabek was singled out did he come to contribute there, and his arguments show that he doesn't even understand what the problem was really about.
This mentality of taking sides, Azerbaijani’s on one side and Armenians on the other isn’t helping anyone. If someone has the right to criticize Golbez's mediation, that person has to actually be engaged in the mediation process, those who were there when Francis and Golbez settled the issue before Atabek came and screwed it up. Coming here and claiming that his dissatisfied on a mediation that he wasn't even involved with besides a few comments which were already repeated by another contributor, doesn’t in any way weight in when commenting about Golbez's participation.
The point has been made, so why does Parishan continues pulling Golbez's foot? [9] I think administrators should first understand the rational of Atabek's illogical, irrational requests. It won't be the first nether the last time contributors like Atabek pushed members to the extreme. VartanM (talk) 01:49, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
I found Golbez's answer following my comment [10] inadequate and inappropriate, and I did point it out to him [11]. And my response did correspond to the question posed by him. I think that experience was memorable enough to allow me to draw conclusions from this mediation. In any event, I was actually trying to make a fruitful contribution, rather than attributing "bazaar mentality" to ethnicities, whose representatives happen to disagree with me. Parishan (talk) 11:03, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
I'm quite happy with Golbez's mediation. He has solved long running issues and is very well familiar with the conflict and the history of the situation, his neutrality has only been challenged by pov pushers. Switching to another mediator will not be constructive.-- Ευπάτωρ Talk!! 10:47, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
That's not what I proposed. I'm also quite happy with Golbez's mediation. I'm more worried about everywhere else - the locus of dispute is not restricted to just this one article. Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 10:56, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

I would also be happy with word "mediation" applied in Golbez case, if someone could explain what mediation actually means, other than what is defined in the relevant article: "Mediation, a form of alternative dispute resolution (ADR), aims to assist two (or more) disputants in reaching an agreement.". It's clear from his edits and talk page comments, and the whole "raving maniacs" thing, that, with all due respect, he is more a disputant (within definition given above) than a mediator. Can we bring this to some formal board where a decision can be taken on who should actually mediate the articles? Because as of now, a group of users is refusing to contribute to the articles due to Golbez's activity, and when independent arbitrator like Moreschi offers his services, another group rejects for not quite detailed reasons but that it simply wants to continue "pushing POV". Atabek (talk) 11:22, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Atabek, my comment on Golbeze's page was simply the product of you calling him an pro-Armenian, interested only listening to the Armenians. Same applies to the bazaar comment. I was under the impression that if I really started pushing POV just the way you claim that I do. And if it were anywhere near the level of your own pushed POV maybe then, the mediators would be able to reach a consensus and not be called pro-Armenian. I quickly changed my mind about that theory, for the simple reason that the last thing this project needs is another destructive user. And by destructive, I mean someone who is able to halt any productive discussion [12] [13] [14] [15] [16] [17] [18] [19] [20] [21] by driving the mediator to the point of snapping [22] and then reporting him to ANI [23]. VartanM (talk) 22:31, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
And I never rejected Moreschi's offer. The more neutral eyes we have on AA articles the better. Maybe then the compassions of NK to the Nazis will end. Also I didn't see you complaining about Golbez when he protected the Shushi article on a "right version". That wasn't really a pro-Armenian was it? VartanM (talk) 01:27, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

When you behave like a raving maniac, a moderator needs to point that out. He is doing you a favor, so you will step away and not sabotage the efforts of your fellow editors. Sometimes I get short breath just by reading your incessant tirades against your opponents. It's good if someone tells you to calm down and stop screaming.--TigranTheGreat (talk) 19:30, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

I am in favor of having any impartial mediator. So far, Golbez has not proven to be one. All of the above clearly indicate quite the opposite. I am for Moreschi's help. --Ehud (talk) 01:33, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Banned members have no say in this. You are banned so you should learn to face it. - Fedayee (talk) 03:09, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Keep talking. Maybe this compensates your anger. --Ehud (talk) 06:44, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Regardless of what we say or think, there should be a change or rotation in mediation. One person cannot be mediator for his or her lifetime. If there is a call for change, why not to face it? I think we should follow this simple logic in this given case too. --Aynabend (talk) 21:48, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

As far as I am concerned, you’ve been OK so far, even thought I disagree with you very strongly on many issues. You have not come to discuss with Golbez, you’ve left Vartan with Atabek, which resulted into this. At least in your case you don’t say anything while Grandmaster pushes any misbehavior of Atabek under the carpet and then switches roles.
Didn’t it cross your mind that when Golbez said that he wanted the Azerbaijani position explained by another person other than Atabek, it could have been you? I think the call for change should be justified, what was the problem really?... it was the removal by Atabek of a word and the emblem. Is it really worth it to have another person go through thousands of texts and countless pages of discussion for two problems, one of which was a non-issue at least by the two sides before Atabek created this artificial problem?
For an artificial problem created and maintained by Atabek, we have not only one article to work on, but three now; the split and the FORK created by Grandmaster. Where does this lead us to? Logically, it should be Atabek that should be prevented from participating in those articles and you to come there and present your position and I am certain that the issue could be resolved without Atabek’s implication. Just try it, and then say if Golbez is what he was pictured here to be. - Fedayee (talk) 23:37, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Golbez's mediation did not work. It is time to try someone else. I will file a request for mediation soon. Grandmaster (talk) 08:20, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

VartanM[edit]

User:VartanM is a party to ArbCom [24] He has recently pushed the limit, by attacking a whole ethnicity again: [25]:

  • "Atabek its clear to me that Azeris have a bazar mentality in negotiations. As in you tart with your own ridiculously high price and wait for the Armenian to come up with its own ridiculously low price, go back and forth until a medium is reached then call it a deal. What has happened so far is that Azeris came up with the high price, but we the naive Armenians ask for the medium price right from the start, Azeris get confused and think that the medium is the low price and push for more."

I am not sure how long and how many times will this Arbitration Committee condone VartanM's attacks and the attack by TigranTheGreat like reported below on other contributors along ethnic lines and allow generalizations such as above. These contributors have been warned already at several instances.

No one likes being insulted or attacked for free contributions to free encyclopedia at own time and leisure. I hope Arbitration Committee will take this into consideration. Thanks. Atabek (talk) 18:51, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Chaps, attacking an ethnicity is only indirectly a violation of Wikipedia policy, but it's annoying and not something we want to see too much more of (Wikipedia ain't a soapbox either).
And, yes, Vartan, please don't do that. Nobody should. It's not much of a policy violation but it really does not help with the atmosphere around here, which is quite toxic enough as it is. There'd be no point browbeating an apology out of you, but please restrain from making such similar statements in the future. You're a classier sort of gentleman than that. Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 19:23, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
Arbitration enforcement is getting stupidly clogged up with your battles. At the moment it ain't all really working, I think you'll both agree. Perhaps we need a new approach. Here's an idea. I'll be full-time mediator and admin-enforcer to the Armenia-Azeri fights for a fortnight. If you accept, fine. If so, however, we're going to have work out a system whereby I get told where the latest fights are breaking out, because I haven't got every single Armenia-Azeri article listed. Moreschi If you've written a quality article... 19:04, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Moreschi, I think that would be great if you could dedicate some time to Azeri-Armenian articles. I will be more than glad to cooperate in your efforts. Keep me informed, and I can provide you with a list of all disputed articles.

But for this particular case, I also want to request that VartanM be demanded an apology for insulting an entire ethnicity. It's really inappropriate and every time he makes a violation and is given a green light, just because it's reported by opposite side, he continues similar attacks next time. Atabek (talk) 19:16, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I am sorry to report this also, but VartanM engaged in another attack along ethnic and personal lines [26] against User:Ehud Lesar. Perhaps, he needs to be explained to calm down. Thanks. Atabek (talk) 19:31, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps you need to calm down. Just today you have already alienated one admin (Golbez) with your hyperventilating style of argumentation. Going around and accusing all your opponents in "attacking along national lines" is disruptive and annoying. Vartan made a simple point--User Ehud's behavior strongly suggests that he is a sock of Adil, and as such, he is impersonating someone having a Jewish name. Unless Ehud wants to bring up the issue himself and subject himself to checkuser, you need to move on and stop your disruptive behavior. --TigranTheGreat (talk) 02:11, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Tigran, if VartanM is not "attacking along national lines", why is User:Ehud Lesar's ethnic background is even a subject of discussion in Wikipedia? Does any Wikipedia rule proclaim that the user must state his ethnicity or be claimed as a sock otherwise? There is a simple method for proving a contributor is a sock of another - filing a checkuser. Is it really so much harder than assuming so much bad faith? Atabek (talk) 12:42, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
  • The diffs of VartanM cited by Atabek are not actionable. Thatcher131 02:15, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Here's more, a personal attack on Atabek, accusations of trolling, etc. Quote: Atabek is clearly trolling and baiting you to say things that you wouldn't normally say. My advise is to ignore him, but if it continues you can report him to the administrators at WP:ANI. [27] Also, constant accusations of User:Ehud Lesar being a sock of banned user Adil is another personal attack. VartanM knows very well that checkuser proved that Ehud and Adil are not related, but keeps attacking Ehud on any occasion. How many warnings can one person be given? I think it is time Vartan stops attacking other users, whom he happened to disagree with. Grandmaster (talk) 08:52, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Atabek, you're also a part of ArbCom and how many times you attacked Armenian side with the words like "separatists", "ethnic cleansings" etc (last time 2 days ago at Talk:Shusha)? and your last "editions" at Baku: after the Black January pogroms when the whole Armenian population fled the city its even very hard for you to see the word Armenian there in the article- when a prominent person from Baku was really an Armenian and in some cases was pressed to leave Baku like Armenian-Jewish Kasparov and his family? What about tolerance? Pls try to be more tolerant before asking about other users! Andranikpasha (talk) 13:00, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Andranikpasha, since when the words "separatist" and "ethnic cleansing", with listed facts and references in historical debate, are considered an attack? And Kasparov is a prominent person, not because he is from Baku and not because he is Armenian-Jewish, but because he became a chess grandmaster. And by the way, before Black January pogroms, Kasparov received education in Baku, elevated and paid for all his chess tournaments up to championship by no one other than the leader of Azerbaijan Heydar Aliyev. And by the way, when Armenians were leaving on ships or trains prior to Black January, Kasparov was chartering a comfortable plain for his family to leave to Moscow, safely, escorted from Baku airport. And by the way, if you look at my edits at Baku, I removed most Azerbaijani ethnic classification from prominent people listings as well. The article is about the city of Baku and prominent people from the city, not about their ethnic backgrounds. So WP:AGF. Thanks. Atabek (talk) 13:16, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Thatcher131, may I remind you about few comments for which I was blocked before, links listed here: [28], [29]. Perhaps, you could look at both links and since you don't find anything actionable in VartanM's "Azeris have a bazar mentality in negotiations" and "Atabek is clearly trolling and baiting you to say things that you wouldn't normally say", explain me what was "actionable" in what I said then? Atabek (talk) 11:30, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
Different admins have different standards. It is obvious in context that VartanM meant bazaar, not bizzare, and it was a comment on negotiation tactics. I could adopt the view that every talk page comment that said "the [blank] people all do this" is a personal attack and ban the whole damn lot of you. Certainly a more aggressive enforcement approach would fall on you as well. Thatcher131 14:35, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
The thing is that I don't remember a single instance of any Azerbaijani user making generalizing comments about the Armenian people. I don't remember any Azerbaijani user ever saying "you Armenians are this and that". Previous report was dealing with comments of TigranTheGreat about the modern Azerbaijani people, to whom he referred as "so called Azerbaijanis" "with fictional ethnic identity", etc. It was not a matter of historical dispute, into which some users managed to change the discussion. If such remarks about the whole people are acceptable here, then everyone should feel free to make similar comments without the risk of being sanctioned. It is not even a matter of enforcing the arbcom decisions, it is more about the general atmosphere in talk pages, which keeps on deteriorating. I believe some sort of a general warning should be given to make users refrain from such inflammatory statements. Grandmaster (talk) 16:45, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
I agree with Grandmaster. Such statements on a certain ethnicity indicate ethnic harted. I think VartanM should apologize for his unfair remarks about Azerbaijanis. Ethnic hatred should not be tolerated by admins in Wikipedia. Furthermore, Tigran should file a checkuser on my account along with people who think alike, if that makes him this worried that I am Adil Bagirov. So, Tigran and others, just stop talking and use your time to file a checkuser instead. Or, is it better for you that I am not checked so that you keep repeating the same melody over and over? I think the latter option suits your interests well and that's why you're inactive. --Ehud (talk) 01:46, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
It has been already demonstrated that your persona is a fake one. We will all treat you as Adil because you are Adil. It was already pointed out that Lesar is Sephardic not Ashkenazi. It is unlikely that any Jew will ever support the claim that a few deaths amount to genocide and even to reply to an objection to the ridiculous comparison between Auschwitz and Khojaly by supporting the one who made such a ridiculous, plain and pathetic comparison.
No Jew will have any interest at calling Sevan (in the republic of Armenia) by its "Azerbaijani" name, or it being Azerbaijani land... all of which are claims exclusively made by Adil Baguirov.
We know now that Azizbekov was not a sock of a banned member... he has been banned by the ridiculous accusations brought forward by Grandmaster. But of course, here we have an obvious case of sock puppetry and administrators unsurprisingly remain silent. All the editors implicated (Armenian as much Azeri) have the knowledge to invade checkusers, particularly Adil, and on various occasions it was obvious it was him behind the sock puppetry, even without checkuser confirmation. It is no secret that there is an Atabek and Adil connection, so there should not be any surprise as to why Ehud always appears to give a hand to Atabek, just like when Adil was raining in with sockpuppets to come to Atabek’s defense. - Fedayee (talk) 03:29, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Grandmaster, you sound like you have very short memory. It wasn’t until recently that there were such comments and this happening because there are no consequences for what Atabek has been saying and doing for a very long time. And I witness that again you use the “Armenian and Azerbaijani” editors’ card. I don’t get it, why don’t you stick to reporting and start making less offending comments? You compared Armenia with Saddam’s Iraq, which, unlike the claim of a weak Azerbaijani national identity, is not substantiated. Tell me, how was your comparison any less offending when it was those same analogies, which have grown to become comparisons with the NAZIs, which have finally pushed Tigran into making those comments. If you don’t want others to make comments which you find offending, maybe you should also listen to other editors when they find your comments offending. I have not seen you doing anything when Atabek added his stuff in his user page offending Armenian users, he knew they were offending and only removed them when he wanted to comment in the request for arbitration page because he was probably scared to have his recent contributions analysed. - Fedayee (talk) 03:41, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
It has been already demonstrated that your persona is a fake one. We will all treat you as Adil because you are Adil Demonstrated? By what? By repetitive sounds of nonsense? And who are you to treat me as Adil or any other user? Who is we? Do you guys mass mail each other and decide how to "treat" other users?
Really impressed about your knowledge on Jewish roots and even their views. Really astounding to see how you speak so well on behalf of Jews. It's up to the Admins to decide who's a sock and who's not. I think they are smart enough to determine who's who. But please do continue writing. Otherwise it'll get boring. --Ehud (talk) 06:54, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Fedayee, before accusing me of having a short memory you may wish to recall that “Armenian and Azerbaijani” editors’ card has already been played by Vartan (remember his "bazaar mentality" speech?). And I never compared Armenia with anyone, the discussion was about whether or not we can present as official an emblem of the city, introduced by occupational forces, and I reminded of a similar situation in another region of the world. And please stop attacking Ehud, it has never been demonstrated that his persona is fake, on the contrary, it has officially been proven that he has nothing to do with Adil. See this checkuser once again. I recommend Ehud to take this to WP:ANI next time anyone repeats this baseless sockpuppetry accusation, it is harassment and should be dealt with as such. Grandmaster (talk) 07:49, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
You know checkusers will not show anything and you know nothing has been demonstrated of that sort. Ehud is Adil, we already confirmed this, so please for your own sake stop claiming it was demonstrated, I will start believing that you know it and defend him.
It isn’t difficult at all to confirm it, here are the same myths which were said by Adil [30] who calls Sevan, Geycha (and the theory about it being Azerbaijani land)… here is the near identical claim again by Adil.[31].
When you search in the talkpages, all the hits excluding one, point either to Adil and Ehud, for Geycha for the way Adil calls it by its “Azerbaijani” name. If you read Adil’s claim, you will see those claims put forward by Adil are identical to the ones put forward by Ehud. Neither you, nor even Atabek have ever made those claims about Sevan, they were exclusively Adil’s thing.
There can be no reasonable doubt that it is Adil, the ancestry of that family is Sephardic while Ehud claims otherwise… he calls Sevan, and which is in the republic of Armenia, by an Azerbaijani name, again Adil’s baseless claims, no one brought it up, at least not this way, Atabek calls its “Azerbaijani” name Gokcha not Geycha.
The sarcasm too is 100% Adil. Adil has been known to impersonate, Jewish, Armenian and various other ethnicities already and we know he can escape checkusers. So I doubt that you buy the claim that it was demonstrated that it was not Adil, when it is 100% sure that this guy is Adil. As for your comment about short memory, you ignore again all the things which were done for months by Atabek, aimed at provoking members with offending comments and you merely put your finger on a recent event, no comment is even needed for that. - Fedayee (talk) 18:39, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
It is OK to read these theories for me. They bring laughter. I am just kind of puzzled. By being an Armenian, and supposedly not speaking Azeri, what are you trying to prove by stating that one user calls the region Gokcha and the other one calls it Geycha? For your information, if you open the doors to Azerbaijani articles and try to consider the other side of the story, you would come to know that Gokcha is transliteration from Russian, and Geycha from Azerbaijani. If two users are using different transliterations, why would one think the rest of the people belong to one category or another? If you did some real research instead of your "investigation", you would come to come that resources compiled/written based on Azeri sources or transliteration would state the name as "Geycha"; if Russian - then "Gokcha", etc. It's a matter of choice, Mr. fedayee. Atabek chose to use "Gokcha", Adil chose "Geycha". For your information, one of your friends [32] got the name from Russian transliteration, while in Azeri sources it is Azizbayov or Azizbeyov. I see now that, according to your logic, in the few days, weeks, years, you'll be calling the rest of the Azeris, Jews, Georgians, Americans who use one or another way of calling the region, "Adils", "Atabeks" from now on.
Same applies to Adil Bagirov's posts on Zangezur and Geycha you provided links of, which he must have learned from websites, books, articles, and what others haven't learned much about. I, in my turn, have learned the history of both Armenia and Azerbaijan, and am mentioning what I had learned. Geycha and Zangezur, which are the present day Sevan and Syunik, have been a part of Azerbaijan up until they were transferred to Armenia in the beginning of the 20th century. I am not saying they weren't once a part of Armenian Empire. They belonged to both of the nations in various periods of time. The bottom line is that they are a part of independent Republic of Armenia and were recognized as part of Armenia by international community when it got its independence, as much as Karabakh is a part of Azerbaijan Republic and were recognized as part of Azerbaijan by international community; however was a subject to occupation by Armenian armed forced. You may call it a "myth" as much as you like, but it's a recorded history. You are so brainwashed by your own ideology, that you don't give yourself a chance to look at the other side of the paper. --Ehud (talk) 02:50, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
The only thing you do with your answers is to confirm more and more that you are Adil. I have accumulated evidence that shows that even your intimidations and accusations are identical to Adil Baguirov. I will provide the evidence on ANI. It is also known why it would not have been logical that Adil Baguirov’s IP could have matched with yours, since Adil left for his postdoctoral only after he was banned, you forced me to say why the IP could not match even if he was not to use an open proxy. I will not say anything more on why your justifications are bogus, we'll see it on ANI and you will be free to reply. I will not be filling an Arbitration request, because my trust for the arbitration has reached an all-time low, I will only hope some administrators will use some of their time to go through the evidence. - Fedayee (talk) 06:53, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Fedayee, I strongly encourage you to file a report to ANI, because your harassment of Ehud has to stop. It is about the time admins put an end to this. Let them check all the evidence and results of cu and pass their own judgement. Grandmaster (talk) 08:18, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Quite clear above, in my posts, that there are no posts involving any sort of intimidation. I am not sure why you choose that kind of words if you understand that it'll be clear to any English speaking person that there are no intimidations on my part, only your continuous harrassment, baseless accusations, negative attitude. I must say that it's rather positive that you're so impressed by Adil Bagirov; so impressed that you happen to follow his life cycle, but I think you should free your mind from the name Ehud Lesar. File a checkuser, provide any kind of evidence on ANI, so that the administrators see, assess and evaluate, and clear out for you once and for all that I am not and never have been another user. Maybe then you'll stop your never ending harrassment. --Ehud (talk) 08:22, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

VartanM's choice of words was full of flavour. In light of the prior Arbcom cases this is not ideal, but among the reams of talk on these pages it isn't surprising that we all get frustrated from time to time and wax a bit lyrical about the tactics of others. The correct response at these times is to AGF, which in this case would mean assuming VartanM meant bazaar :- a jovial call for clarification would have been more effective then bringing this to AN/AE.

Fedayee, this thread is about VartanM, not Ehud Lesar. If you have enough proof that Ehud Lesar is someone else, "put up or shut up" until such time as you are ready to put your cards on the table. John Vandenberg (talk) 13:28, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

SPA and ArbCom[edit]

This user is an SPA [33] for an article which was subject to ArbCom (whose resultant decision prohibited SPA's) Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/St Christopher#Single-purpose accounts ChampionHero (talk) 14:55, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

Single purpose accounts may be banned for making disruptive edits. Please provide diffs of such edits. (There appears to be no restriction on SPAs unless they are disruptive. Thatcher131 17:58, 22 December 2007 (UTC)
Some whitewashing, not a good sign, and frankly I've yet to see an SPA there that was not disruptive. Guy (Help!) 21:11, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

None of my edits have been disruptive, feel free to check my history with regard to that article. I have actually recently restored sourced and valid information to the page that was removed by another user in an attempt to whitewash the article (with that user violating the 1RR they were placed under by another admin. for edit waring on that particular article with another editor). Anyway, there is something terribly suspicious regarding the original editor that lodged the request here. They have one edit to their name and it is to this board to complain about other editors? Smells like a sock to me. StrongPassword (talk) 10:45, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

I think it's also necessary to discuss inappropriate actions that appear to have been taken against editors listed at the bottom of that arbitration page under "Logs of Blocks and Bans". Nearly all of the editors had general, indefinite bans placed on them for being SPA's, while the "Remedies" and "Enforcement" sections of the Request for Arbitration do not allow for that. According to the enforcement section "Page bans shall be enforced by brief blocks of up to a week for repeated violations. After five such blocks, the maximum block length increases to a year." Clearly neither the Remedies (which only discussed bans from the article in question and it's related content NOT all of Wikipedia as what happens with an indefinite, general block) nor the Enforcement criteria were followed in sanctioning those editors. Something really needs to be done about that. StrongPassword (talk) 11:18, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
I consider your edits disruptive - in fact, I consider virtually all edits to that article by people with no significant history outside that article to be disruptive. It has been nothing but a battleground for as long as I can remember, and the very last thing we need is more people joining the battle without actually contributing to the encyclopaedia. I don't think much of your calling my edits "vandalism" either. Guy (Help!) 11:33, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

I didn't call your edits vandalism, I considered those of the editor that removed sourced and valid information from the article "vandalism" (which can easily been seen in the articles edit history). Your assertion that my edits are "disruptive" is meaningless as I doubt any rational administrator will agree with you. StrongPassword (talk) 11:40, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

  • I am troubled by your edits. Pretty much the most notable thing about that college, the source of most of its UK coverage and the whole source of its discussion in numerous venues, is the fact that the GMC specifically cites it as a cause of their removal of registration from a doctor, and setting up a list of unrecognised institutions. Causing the General Medical Council to strike a doctor off and change its practices is a pretty big deal, to the point that it belongs in the lead of this article on the UK entity. Your reaction to this was to revert, and your reaction to edits by another editor is also to revert - you are demonstrating WP:OWN problems, and I would say that your edits to that article are therefore disruptive. The solution is pretty simple: leave it alone and edit some other articles. The restriction only applies to single purpose accounts. Guy (Help!) 12:20, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

I am troubled by your edits as well. Your edits show you are obviously trying to push your POV on this article and are refusing to hash it out on the talk page. Just because you feel something is notable does not mean it is so. If you read the article from the GMC closely you will see that the GMC never said they setup the list in response to St. Christopher's, there is your own synthesis and extrapolation of the information in the article. I did no revert the non-redundant information that you included, it was moved to the media section where it belongs. Your decision that my edits are disruptive is inappropriate when you are involved in editing the article yourself and are pushing a particular agenda. A neutral administrator needs to determine if my edits are disruptive. I will not accept your decision in this matter because you have a pre-existing conflict of interest. StrongPassword (talk) 12:25, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

User:StrongPassword has been blocked for 24hrs for disruptive behaviour on St Christopher Iba Mar Diop College of Medicine. Note that Arbcom didnt just say disruptive edits - even good edits by an SPA, when done in a disruptive fashion, are sufficient to result in a block and banning if required. John Vandenberg (talk) 12:39, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for that; as a result I have finally managed to get an unconflicted edit to more fully reference the content. It's not every medical college that can claim to have changed GMC policy, after all. Guy (Help!) 12:53, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

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