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SqueakBox is under Personal Attacks parole according to Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/SqueakBox and Zapatancas#SqueakBox and Zapatancas . He has posted the following in his user page ([1]): "[My main successes has been ...] restoring José Luis Rodríguez Zapatero from the POV of another user who claims to write about saints but who is determined to slur him." One of the meanings of "Hagiographer" is that, a person who writes about saints, so that paragraph is clearly an attack against me, as it's pure libel. In fact, my only activity in regard to the Zapatero article has been to revert vandalism. Hagiographer 12:07, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

SqueakBox blocked for one week under his personal attack parole. Beware of vandalizing User:SqueakBox's edits and other provocation, even if you strongly suspect that he has socked as User:Pura Paja. --Tony Sidaway 13:52, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


Instantnood (talk · contribs) is under Arbitration Committee sanction of some sort. The final decision in their case is here: [2].

This line should be a clear and brief summary. Three or four sentences at most.

The following diffs show the offending behavior
Move/Redirect war, this has to stop. I propose page bans on the current article and any article in the archive. SchmuckyTheCat 20:05, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

This move/redirect war has been going on for months. It needs to end. Instantnood is supporting himself by endless bickering across a dozen talk pages but it's him against the world.

Reported by: SchmuckyTheCat 20:05, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

The project has been split (starting from August 1) as user:HongQiGong proposed. User:HongQiGong has no valid reason to enforce what he proposed retroactively. The proposal has no retroactive effect on the archives. Nobody other than user:HongQiGong insists on keeping the cut-and-paste fork. Such edits as keeping cut-and-paste fork are simple vandalism, and should be reverted, no matter who do it. User:SchmuckyTheCat is now like abusing this page to challenge all my edits that he disagrees, regardless of whether these edits are related to the ArbCom case or not. He simply reports here everything he disagrees, although his requests have been ignored several times. — Instantnood 20:30, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
The relationship to your arbcom cases is pure disruption. You are being disruptive. I don't report here every dispute, I'm barely involved in this one. I report you when you are egregiously disruptive. SchmuckyTheCat 20:34, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Combating those disruptive edits is hardly disruptive. — Instantnood 20:42, 27 August 2006 (UTC)
Nobody other than user:HongQiGong insists on keeping the cut-and-paste fork. I am sorry, but nobody? Was he truly alone, or are you taking others as non-existant? User:Ideogram said it best: "Wikipedia is not a bureaucracy. Insisting on strict adherence to procedure in the face of obvious consensus is a waste of time. See WP:SNOW" [4]. If HongQiGong was indeed alone, why would anyone make such a statement?--Huaiwei 13:08, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Don't seat it instanthood, I don't think anyone admins monitor this page. Justforasecond 00:04, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Combating HongQiGong "disruptive" edits probably isnt disruptive. The problem is only you consider his edits disruptive.--Huaiwei 13:08, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Yes we do. But joking aside Schmucky you might get a better response over at ANI. JoshuaZ 00:10, 28 August 2006 (UTC)


I am reporting a series of repearted incidents regarding the user called Deathrocker. This user was recently banned for removing sourced information from articles, and for making personal attacks at people who do not have accounts. This user is also on revert parole from an arbirrition case that led to him being banned for three months. This user is using a serious of ip adresses to revert any user, anmynous or registered, including admins, that change anything on articles he deems as 'his' claiming it as vandalism or restricted user changes [5], [6], [7], [8], [9], [10], [11]. He also just used an ip to delete someones post from an anymonous users talk page and instead leave a personal attack [12].

The point in referring this is that these ips should be checked against his account. It may also be neccesary to inforce a prolonged ban with this user from these articles, as he has grown into a habit of calling admin abuse when he is banned (see arbirittion case evidence and findings of fact), and removing large sections of text written by others on article discussion pages, claiming they are banned users. He has even done this to an admin, claiming admin abuse when the admin reverted him. This is on top of the persistant violations of his parole regarding personal attacks and using sockpuppets to perform massive reverts, which he openly admits to being his by signing them as himself [13].

This user is becoming a series tire to many users in the community, with many times admins refusing to deal with the user due to his claims of admin abuse when incidents are reported. This user also openly refuses to follow policy or respect that he does not own Wikipedia, and that articles are not just his, they are to reflect the opinions and points of all people, claiming in multiple instances that he can refuse to let others edit articles because he said so.

Here is his user contributions to give example of his estronous violations or revert parole across a series of articles [14]. He also states here on his userpage he is a sockcatcher, even though he was banned for making this account and posting this personal attack against another user. [15].

Of note also, is is that he has twice used two ips to blank a users comment from someones talk page for praising the work done by that user, leaving a personal attack, signing it as himself [16], [17].

Wether this users parole needs to revised, or more closely inforced is a matter for AE to decide. Im just reporting this user and his sock farm, as he is seriously damaging the community. Serial thrillers 17:37, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

The above message is from a sockpuppet of Leyasu, who registered that account because I kept blocking the IPs that he was using to leave me similar messages. I have blocked User:Serial thrillers as a sockpuppet. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 17:53, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
Comment Based on this edit [18] it appears that the complainant Serial thrillers has also been posting as (talk · contribs · WHOIS) and (talk · contribs · WHOIS), which are British Telecom IPs compatible with the last checkuser case against banned user Leyasu. The reverting against Anon IP's that Leyasu is complaining about are all against her. Deathrocker is on revert parole and is limited to one revert per article per day. Although reverting vandalism does not count, I'm not sure reverting suspected edits of a banned user fall under the same exception. There may be technical violation of the revert parole here but I would be hesitant to enforce it, since Leyasu seems determined to continue to disrupt these articles. I will look deeper into it tonight. I would certainly be best all around if Deathrocker would leave the reversions to another editor, even if it is Leyasu. Thatcher131 (talk) 17:56, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
As far as I understand it, reverting a banned user is not a violation of revert parole. WP:3RR#Reverting edits from banned or blocked users says that reverting edits by banned users does not count towards violating 3RR, so I would say that it doesn't violate revert parole either. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 18:04, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
However, reverting users who are not myself, not banned (until now without just cause), registered or anymonous, is not allowed in his revert parole. He was recently banned by an admin for abuse on a bands article page with another user, completely devoid of me. Also, nor is he allowed to hold a sock farm which is again, a violation of WP:SOCK AND his parole.
Also, in many instances, a lot of Deathrockers repeated reverts, and sock ips have been making his trademark 'Restricted User Changes' to articles that have been worked on by long time registered users, including admins that he has been warned by. Something that came up a lot in his Arbirrition case before.
So far, myself, i have only been making reasonable edits - most of which have as of late been to articles surrounding the Music Genome Project. Ive only stopped by these when ive noticed, suprise suprise, a whole bunch of ip socks calling themselfs me, or Deathrocker, have been reverting the heavy metal articles left right and center.
Regardless of my actions, and the majority of my edits that run right under your scope of vision, that is not basis for Deathrocker to be allowed to violate his parole. If im going to indefinatly banned for doing something, it is only fitting that Deathrockers I can do whatever i want coz i got through an ArbCom case attitude is remanded for the same actions. Otherwise that is favouritism, especially when the majority of the incidents dont even involve myself. Leyasu/Serial Thrillers
Reasonable edits or not, this user (Leyasu) is banned and should not be editing. Banned users should not be editing Wikipedia at all; being banned is a formal revocation of editing privileges. Indefinitely banned users may appeal their bans to the arbitration committee one year after they are banned. The banning policy states that even valid edits made by banned users should be reverted; this includes complaints about other editors. I have blocked the IP that left the above message. If any other users (i.e. not Leyasu or his sockpuppets) have any problems with Deathrocker, they are welcome to report them, and any admin who checks this page can examine the evidence and decide what to do about enforcing any violations. --Idont Havaname (Talk) 19:13, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
I would like to clarify that Leyasu was not banned by Arbcom, but by an admin after repeated instances of using sockpuppets to violate his parole. As such, he can appeal to either WP:ANI or Arbcom at any time. However, given his continued edits to death metal and related articles as admitted here, an appeal is unlikely to succeed. Thatcher131 (talk) 00:19, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
And like i said. Reverting me is fine. Reverting other registered users and anons isnt. And i am still well within my right to complain. And it also doesnt matter wether a banned user reports him or not either, his parole is still supposed to be enforced. Many of the new users simply dont know how to report him, and many of the older ones are unscrupuosly banned as being myself before they can complain. So now you know what he is doing, you have to enforce his parole otherwise there is absoloutly no point in him having it.

Feel free to check any accounts or IP's against this one. I don't need to create or use sockpuppets to remove your messages from Wikipedia, read WP:3RR it states spercifically in the exceptions section; "Editors who have been banned from editing particular pages, or banned or blocked from Wikipedia in general, and who continue to edit anyway, either directly or through a sock-puppet, may be reverted without the reverts counting towards the limit established by this policy.".[19]... you know what that means Leyasu?.. it means even if you edit one article a hundred times, I can remove your message one hundred times without it counting against any limits because you are an indefinetly banned user. Take a hint and stop editing, you were permanetly banned for a reason and continue to use multiple socks attempting to get around it, this is vandalism.
As Idont Havaname said, you are a banned user, and your edits are to be removed on site. By all rights acording to the blocking policy I could remove the very edits you made on this page. Many users have been removing your sockpuppet attempts to edit Wikipedia while indef-blocked, including User:VoABot II[20], User:KnowledgeOfSelf[21]User:Danteferno[22]User:Angelbo[23]User:HawkerTyphoon[24], etc.. that is merely scratching the surface of editors who have removed your messages today, not even including myself, Idont Havaname, or a wide range of different IPs which have removing your policy defying sock edits.
Also, the diffs which you are attempting to attribute to me in the first post, are not me they are a various aray of IP's and other users account. As I said, I have no need or reason to create a sock puppet account to remove your edits or to edit Wikipedia at all, as explained above. I suggest whoever is reviewing this actually check out the diffs the permanently banned vandal provided, thanks. - Deathrocker 20:26, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

The bottom line here is there is no evidence to support taking any action. The IPs provided by Leyasu are mostly from New Brunswick, Canada. I can't find any verified information on Deathrocker's location, but this checkuser case, which was returned inconclusive, compared him with a kid who uses a U.S. e-mail address and an Australian ISP. It's hard to see how that request could be inconclusive if Deathrocker was a New Brunswicker, so I have to conclude that either he has found some open proxies or there is a Death metal fan in N.B. who knows about the arbitration case. (Similarly, while Leyasu is known to edit from British Telecom, the IP addresses that has provided at Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Leyasu as being improperly reverted are from completely different parts of the world, suggesting that Leyasu has also found some open proxies or has some imitators.) There just isn't enough evidence to support taking action against Deathrocker at this time. Thatcher131 (talk) 00:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

The kid you mentioned, which Leyasu accused me of been a long time ago is User:Mike5193.. we don't not even have the same interests... he has a picture up and is a fan of Death Metal... I'm a fan of Deathrock. (Hense the same, they aren't the same thing)
Leyasu has attempted to pull this stunt before with various other users from all over the world, including User:Danteferno (It says on his profile that he is from Belize). Perhaps a range block from the range which Leyasu edits would remmedy his block evasion? An admin has tried it before [25]. - Deathrocker 00:27, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
It's hard to justify blocking British Telecom; that would be like blocking all of Southwest Bell in the U.S. Semiprotecting the articles might be a better choice. Thatcher131 (talk) 00:30, 31 August 2006 (UTC)


LossIsNotMore (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) has been blocked for a week for disrupting Talk:Uranium trioxide and is editing using LossIsNotMore-ur (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) to evade his ban. Dr Zak 03:29, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/SqueakBox and Zapatancas. Puts this troll bait notice here to try and force SqueakBox to break his block. It is also a personal attack on SqueakBox, which Hagiographer is banned from doing, as well as being a blatant disruption of wikipedia. I suspect I am not alone in being outraged at this attack on a fine academic by an individualo who spends all hhis time on wikipedia pursuing a vendetta, and spoiling the encyclopedia in the process, and I am editing this encyclopedia because of the bemirsching of this article. Relator 23:56, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Response I agree that the prod notice contained unacceptable personal attacks and baiting. There are less inflammatory ways Hagiographer could have done that. However, I am highly suspicious of the brand new accounts Relator (talk · contribs) and Mister Shower (talk · contribs) and I suspect Squeakbox is going to find his sockpuppeting ban reset. In the future, he may want to use the {{unblock}} template to get attention from an admin who could deal with the situation. I am going to post this at the administrator's noticeboard for a wider view. Thatcher131 (talk) 01:06, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


Arbitration case: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/SqueakBox and Zapatancas#SqueakBox and Zapatancas . SqueakBox is blocked until September 22 in all the Wikipedia as he did not respect the ban imposed upon him by the mentioned arbitration case (see his block log). However, he edited the Wikipedia on September 2 (here). Probably, because when Tony Sidaway blocked him the last time he didn't chose the "correct type of block". SqueakBox's ban has to be restarted as a consequence ensuring this time that he's banned from all the Wikipedia. Hagiographer 06:58, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Is it not that case that, even though not permitted to edit (mainly articles), blocked persons are permitted to edit their talk pages (only). IolakanaT 18:09, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Response Blocked users are permitted to edit their own talk pages. In reviewing the situation, I find the charge by Squeakbox that you altered his signature to that of a user you suspected of being his sockpuppet. Regardless of your suspicions, this was dishonest bordering on vandalism, and if I had seen it at the time I would have blocked you for it. As it was more than 2 weeks ago, and blocks are supposed to be preventative, not punative, consider this a stern warning. The fact that Squeakbox is blocked does not give you the right to abuse the situation, and your suspicions that he has dishonestly used sockpuppets does not give you the right to be dishonest in return. Thatcher131 (talk) 00:47, 5 September 2006 (UTC)


Terryeo (talk · contribs) is under Arbitration Committee sanction of some sort. The final decision in their case is here: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Terryeo#Final decision.

The following diffs show the offending behavior
Personal attack by Terryeo on User:Raymond Hill, accusing him of linking to his own website to boost traffic. See also the edit summary: "one additional point about Raymond Hill's use of Wikipedia to increase his personal website traffic".

Terryeo is under an injunction not to engage in personal attacks, for which he was banned from the Scientology-related articles. Unfortunately he has continued to post innuendo about other users, using Wikipedia policy pages in an ongoing campaign. I have invited him to withdraw his attack on Raymond Hill but he has, regrettably, refused. I recommend a block, as he doesn't seem to have got the message that this is not an appropriate way to interact with other Wikipedians, and his continued misconduct is poisoning the atmosphere on a number of talk pages. (Disclaimer: I brought the original arbitration against Terryeo.) -- ChrisO 13:23, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I concur with ChrisO's statement. In fact, this is not an isolated instance of personal attack from Terryeo after being put on attack probation.--Fahrenheit451 14:50, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I do hope everyone examines my statement there. ChrisO suggest that I have commented on an editor's motivation. I have not commented on an editor's motivation. I have provides specific edit differences which show that User:Raymond Hill cites in an article, as a secondary source, an archived message which he placed on his own personal website. To suggest that my presentation comments on Raymond Hill's motivation is a false and misleading statement. I state the situation. I comment that such a use of a secondary source of information will raise Raymond Hill's personal website traffic. All additional inferences are made by ChrisO and he states them. I do not state implication, I state the situation as simply as possible. To state the actual situation is not a personal attack. (some trouble signing) Terryeo 15:22, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
I can not withdraw Raymond Hill's edit differences. His editing references a google group as a secondary source, a newsgroup which reliability is denied per WP:V. To state the situation is not a personal attack and I don't make a personal attack. Nor is the situation as User:Fahrenheit451 suggests. I have been quite careful while being accused by User:Fahrenheit451's specualtive messages of 'bad faith' and 'Is this a terryeo personal attack' and similar nonesense. Terryeo 15:39, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Terryeo is making false accusations and is advised to cease.--Fahrenheit451 00:46, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Comment This does not look like a personal attack but a comment on the origins of a disputed source. ("Raymond Hill is a serial fabricator" would be a personal attack.) Thatcher131 (talk) 15:40, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
I tend to agree with Thatcher131. If the message came from Google Groups, as Terryeo claims, then its copyright is highly questionable. If it was written by Raymond Hill, then it's pretty close to our ban on original research. While I think Terryeo may have expressed this in a better way, I see nothing here that qualifies as a personal attack. Any uninvolved admin can, of course, disagree with me and impose a block. Ral315 (talk) 15:44, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, people :) Terryeo 17:13, 28 August 2006 (UTC)
Terryeo states: "ChrisO suggest that I have commented on an editor's motivation. I have not commented on an editor's motivation." Well, Terryeo did not just imply that my motivation was to increase traffic, but stated it (in the edit summary: Raymond Hill's use of Wikipedia to increase his personal website traffic.) Given his summary edit, it would seem Terryeo's concern about the origin of the cite was secondary.
Just to avoid any confusion: the content reproduced from the newsgroups was actually a transcription of an article from a reknown canadian magazine, Maclean's. I had good reasons to trust that the newsgroups post in question is a proper transcript, because most of its content is actually supported by other reliable sources. The use of this article as a cite in a related wikipedia topic came down to have someone actually see the original article. I'm still looking for it. In the event I can confirm the cite, I understand I won't still be able to link to it because of copyright concerns, and because I am not a reliable source. This is where I erred. Raymond Hill 19:12, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
The primary goal is to be able to say that the source is McLeans, volume X, page XX, date mm/dd/yyyy. Since no one has yet seen the citation itself, you are relying on an unreliable 3rd party source describing what the article says. When you or someone has seen the article and verified the transcript, you can put in the citation. You don't have to link to the text. Having seen the article first hand, you are allowed to list it, and the burden the falls on Terryeo to prove that the article doesn't say what you claim it says. (Interlibrary loan is not all that difficult if you live in a decent sized city.) There have been previous discussions about using external links to media that are copyvios; these are not wikipedia copyvios because wikipedia is not hosting the material. If there is a concern that you should not provide a link to a site you control then don't; but I would not then entertain the suggestion of removing the source entirely. There are millions if not billions of books and articles that are not on line and there is no reason to hold scientology articles to a higher standard of only allowing sources which are reliable and free and on line. In other words, after you have seen the original article, he can't turn around and say its not a reliable source because its too hard for other readers to verify it; and if you provide a transcript he can't then say it's disallowed because it comes from a site you control; and if you link to a third party site he can't argue it's disallowed because the 3rd party site is violating copyright. Hope this helps. Thatcher131 (talk) 21:43, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
That makes the situation considerably more clear to me, ty. I still wonder about linking to one's own site, however as it will tend to spawn special interest personal websites archiving information who's main use is to link to Wikipedia. Terryeo 02:26, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
What is wrong with that? The more online convenience links with copies of reputable sources, the better it is for the reader and hence for Wikipedia. Andries 18:37, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Not when those "online convenience links" are used to promote controversial, partison and biased websites, like the one Andries was a former webmaster for and is currently the "Main Representative, Contact and Supervisor" for. SSS108 talk-email 05:43, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

SSS108, what is your method for distinguishing between a link being "used to promote controversial, partison [sic] and biased websites" and a link being used because that's where the information is available? Do you make a distinction between the two or do you feel that the link itself is all you need in order to accuse an editor of an ulterior motive for adding a link? -- Antaeus Feldspar 13:50, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
Thank you for saying, SSS108. There are many examples of personal websites whose point of view doesn't even make a small town newspaper's page. Such publication as a personal website costs very little. WP:V doesn't yet confront the issue, but some talk of it goes on at WP:RS. Terryeo 13:01, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
You seem to be drifting off-topic, Terryeo; you're clearly discussing something different from the rest of us. We are talking about situations where a reputable source that we would trust for reportage and analysis, such as an article from the New York Times, is reproduced by a website which we would not necessarily trust for reportage and analysis. Any honest analysis of this situation shows that the point of view held by the website doesn't come into it. The only issue is whether the reproduction is an accurate reproduction and though you've been challenged to find one case of a reproduction that looks accurate and isn't, you've failed to meet that challenge. Why are you still trying to change the subject so that you can talk about whether the "point of view" of the website would "make a small town newspaper's page"? Of course, it's not hard to tell why you're changing the subject away from the fact that you personally attacked another editor by alleging that he was using Wikipedia "to increase his personal website traffic". -- Antaeus Feldspar 13:50, 11 September 2006 (UTC)


(For the record). See the long thread at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Dbiv and Peter Tatchell for a discussion of what to do about User:Dbiv, who has ignored the recent ArbCom ruling against him. Batmanand | Talk 21:47, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

User:Eternal Equinox[edit]

Eternal Equinox (talk · contribs) is under Probation for one year. The final decision in their case is here: Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Eternal_Equinox#Final_decision.

EE is disrupting the Cool (song) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) article and its talk page Talk:Cool (song) (edit | [[Talk:Talk:Cool (song)|talk]] | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), which is in violation of remedy #1 of the ArbCom ruling on him: "Should they, editing under any username disrupt any page, they may be banned from that page for a brief period of time, up to a week in the event of repeat offenses."

The following diffs show the offending behavior
Using sockpuppets and IPs ( (talk · contribs), What2do (talk · contribs) and a dynamic IP in the 64.231 range) - masquerading as three separate non-EE editors - to skew "consensus" in his favour. EE has previously used sockpuppets during FAC and other discussions for the same reason; see Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Eternal_Equinox#Hollow_Wilerding_and_socks.
Edit warring aggressively. EE has a history of ownership of articles and obsessive editing of pop music articles, this one in particular; see Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Eternal_Equinox#Locus_of_dispute.

EE's recent behaviour on this article is part of the reason why an RFAr was filed to begin with, and it's apparent that he's unwilling to change it. He considers the "Cool" article his own "baby", to be treated differently from other articles, under the control of nobody but himself (see [27] and [28]). The above description and diffs only scratch the surface; he's been edit warring on this article for months. I'm involved in this dispute, which is why I haven't temporarily banned him from this article myself.

Reported by: Extraordinary Machine 14:25, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

I have banned the account from Cool (song) and its talk page for 48 hours. —Bunchofgrapes (talk) 21:36, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Response from user

Ban fully rejected. Extraordinary Machine uses excuses to introduce infactualty, nonsense that some edits are too "rich", and other ideas that my edits do not meet Wikipedia-stylized policies. Claims I have been using sock puppets (I have no idea who the 68 IP range is), and thinks I have been editing disruptively while touting the excuse "things have to be [his] way" and "it's my baby". This is ridiculous. This was actually not removed intentionally; we had an edit conflict and without surprise, Bunchofgrapes assumes (yet again) that I removed it purposely. Oh yawn, these users are beginning to grow so dull. They claim I am hard to work with again; from my view, EM is far too difficult to work with and doesn't agree with any of my views and has been recklessly reverting me as much as I am recklessly reverting him. Bunchofgrapes fails to notice this and pinpoints that only I am the cause of this issue. As a result and because here (bother to read it), I actually tried to compromise our situation and two arguments were resolved. Because I am trying to meet both our standards, and because Bunchofgrapes is stalking me after I told him to leave me alone, this ban is rejected. I sense nothing but bias.

As it currently stands, I have nothing more to edit for the day, which reprieves me somewhat. I will edit if I need to in the next "48 hours" though. 21:54, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

As you've been told before, it isn't optional whether you choose to accept the ban. Just two days ago you claimed you weren't EE; having your bluff called, you've now gone back to reverting edits that I've justified and explained to death on the talk page. We're not discussing content of the article here (though the edits in those diffs hardly constitute "excuses" and "nonsense", as anyone viewing them will see) because that should be done on its talk page; we're discussing your behaviour in relation to the recent ArbCom ruling on you. If I appear to be "recklessly reverting" you, that's only because I'm trying to stop you from asserting ownership over the article and having the final say on which edits stay and which go. Bear in mind that I could have banned you from editing this article, but I felt I was too close to the dispute and posted here to get the opinion of an outside admin. Your notion that admins are under an obligation to leave any disruptive user "alone" upon request - particularly when said user continues their disruptive behaviour - is ridiculous. Extraordinary Machine 15:52, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
And as you've been told before, you are editing as "disruptively" as I am by introducing your edits as "proper". Bunchofgrapes never looked at our conversation on Talk:Cool (song) — he figured it would be best to assume that it was me who was being disruptive. If I should say, it's your edits that are disruptive, because some are quite misleading; Bunchofgrapes obviously does not know this, and again, he found it best to believe it was me who was incorrect. Because Cool (song) is currently locked as a result of your pitiful revert-warring, we will discuss all matters on the talk page. 23:53, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
The notion that Bunchofgrapes didn't bother to read any of the discussions or look at the relevant edit histories before placing the ban is suppositional at best, as well as being incredibly insulting to a highly-experienced admin who I've never known to show unsound judgement. Your "pitiful revert-warring" remark is confusing, particularly because revert wars involve more than one user. Extraordinary Machine 21:18, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Please see these discussions[edit]

User_talk:Tony_Sidaway#Need_Help andUser_talk:Tony_Sidaway#Biographies_of_living_people Andries 00:25, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Tony's advice looks about right. This seems like a content dispute, not a behavior problem. Can you work it out on the article talk pages? If not youo might try mediation or third opinion before coming to enforcement. I would add, though, that in my opinion, nothing on a personally created web site qualifies as a reliable source. If it's a copy of an article that is reliable, the citation should specify the original citation. If there is a dispute about linking, then it might be better not to. Any citation before about 1995 isn't going to be on line anyway. The point of citations is to provide a link should someone want to verify--it doesn't have to contain the text itself. Thatcher131 (talk) 00:59, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
I made a request for clarification Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Sathya_Sai_Baba Sorry for causing clerks and others extra work Andries 13:42, 9 September 2006 (UTC)


User:Hagiographer has created a new sockpuppet in defiance of his personal attack ban. [29]. Note the attack opn SqueakBox, the reference to Roberto weiss, whose article Hagiographer has already vandfdalised and his disgusting and deeply rascist reference to squeakBox's user page which Hagiographer has shown an unhealthy obsession with. I trust this depply offensive rasciost user will now be blocked. Relator 18:46, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

The attack sock has been blocked indefinitely. --Tony Sidaway 21:04, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Thanks Tony. I have a checkuser request pending to see whether Hagiographer really is behind it. If he is, I'd like to see a block on him per the personal attack parole imposed on Zapatancas and extended to Hagiographer. Thatcher131 21:08, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Note, Hagiographer has been found to be a sockpuppet of MJGR (talk · contribs). The remedies in the arbitration case that were extended to Hagiographer should now be extended to MJGR. Thatcher131 01:45, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

User:T-man, the Wise Scarecrow[edit]

The block to implement the 6 month ban occured at 05:20, 31 July 2006 UTC, so its not been 6 months yet, and they are still banned. To enforce the arbitration committee's ban on the user, the accounts identified by checkuser should be blocked as an attempt at evading the ban:

Kevin_b_er 03:10, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Accounts blocked, T-man's ban reset by other admin(s). Ral315 (talk) 00:04, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Messhermit edit warring at Alberto Fujimori[edit]

Hi, Messhermit has been edit waring at the Alberto Fujimori article, while on probation: Messhermit placed on Probation for one year. Accordingly, could I request that he is no longer allowed to edit this article? Thanks, Addhoc 11:04, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

He's banned from editing that article now. See the notice on the talk page. --Tony Sidaway 20:50, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, Addhoc 22:02, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Arthur Ellis[edit]

A recent Arb Comm decision Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Warren_Kinsella found that User:Arthur Ellis (aka User:Mark Bourrie, User:Ceraurus, etc., and many Ottawa IPs) used socks for tendentious editing and disruption. He was indefinitely banned from articles on Canadian politics, including Warren Kinsella and any article that mentions it. Today, two IPs (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log) and (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log), both of which are consistent with Ellis' venues and manner (see here), defaced the Arb Comm page[67] and edited both Warren Kinsella[68] and Mark Bourrie[69] (which is covered by the ban). I reverted and protected the ArbComm decision, but given that I am involved in a new Arb Comm case involving the same editor would prefer to leave the matter to the judgement of another admin. Bucketsofg 18:14, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Bucketsofg and Thatcher's admin careers are nearing an end. See Request for Arbitration: Rachel Marsden. Don't get involved, folks. These guys are gone. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)


The article on Kosovo is experiencing ongoing sockpuppetry and repeated violations of an Arbitration Committee injunction. A number of ultranationalist editors are trying to change the intro to a version which asserts their (decidedly non-mainstream) POV and wipes out many other innocuous changes, such as a gallery and interwiki links. The article is currently under an ArbCom injunction, but Vezaso (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) has repeatedly violated it with sockpuppet edits, so far using Dardanv (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log), Palmucha (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) and Semarforikuq (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log). Kushtrimxh (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) has also broken the injunction today. Vezaso sockpuppets are the main thing to look out for - if you see it being reverted to this version by a newly created user, that's almost certainly Vezaso again. Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Kosovo#Log of blocks and bans lists the scorecard so far. I would encourage people to add Kosovo to their watchlists to keep an eye on the situation. -- ChrisO 23:54, 18 September 2006 (UTC)


In the Encyclopaedia Metallum (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views), the user Deathrocker keeps on reverting the page. He's under parole, was blocked for one day, and already reverted the page a few times after his bloc expired. Pretty much anything other users do to change his edits he calls vandalism, so all his reverts are legit, because he's fixing vandalism! The discussions with him are very long and fruitless, and I've tried all ways to reach a consensus with him (See the discussion page, last topic "A new start"), I've tried to edit the page including a mix of his edits and mine, but he always chooses to "fix vandalism" and revert the page. Thanks. Evenfiel 13:34, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

I warned him on his talk page [70] that this is not simple vandalism, but a content dispute over how much the article should focus on the exclusion of one particular band. As a content dispute, he is expected to negotiate in good faith, and seek outside help such as a third opinion or request for comment if necessary, but not to simply revert others' edits. If he reverts again, I will block him. Thatcher131 14:06, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I'll also RFC. Thanks. Evenfiel 14:23, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
It's always a good idea to get a wider consensus for edits that may be controversial. Good luck. Thatcher131 14:31, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
Thatcher, check out the last few reverts by Deathrocker. According to him "we're trying to keep the zeppelin information short in order to avoid dispute.", meaning that he can have seven sources in the Led Zeppelin discussion, while the other side can only have two. Evenfiel 16:28, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
Since you settled on your compromise wording regarding Led Zepplin, Deathrocker has reverted twice to a version with only two sources instead of 4.
Deathrocker is limited to 2 reverts per week, so that's it for the next six days. He should probably think about negotiation to reduce the number of his own sources in kind, ask for request for comment or third opinion, or just accept the inclusion of extra sources. Reverting is not endorsed as a method of editing. Thatcher131 03:02, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

User:Hipi Zhdripi et al[edit]

Hipi Zhdripi (talk · contribs) is under an Arbitration Committee injunction not to make disruptive edits in Kosovo or related pages. The notice of injunction is here.

Since the injunction came into force, it has repeatedly been violated by Hipi Zhdripi using anonymous IP addresses starting 172.* (dynamic IPs at his ISP) - see Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Kosovo/Evidence#Editors involved after start of Arbitration. His violations of the injunction are becoming increasingly frequent (at least daily now), and in addition a number of other mostly anonymous users (nationalists on both sides) have disrupted and vandalised the article repeatedly. Assistance would be appreciated in monitoring the article during the ongoing arbitration.

Reported by: ChrisO 23:56, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Hipi Zhdripi blocked for 24 hours as it is clear the edits were his [73]. Thatcher131 06:20, 2 October 2006 (UTC)


Intangible (talk · contribs) - case: Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Intangible.

Could someone have a look at the recent edits at Vlaams Belang and Bloed-Bodem-Eer en Trouw, especially the latter. I feel I'm being drawn into an edit war with Intangible again. In the latter article, he keeps removing a paragraph linking the neo nazi organisation with the Vlaams Belang, very loosely based indeed on WP:V. Thanks. Please have a word with him.

[74], [75] and [76]. (You'll find my two reverts inbetween those three.) --LucVerhelst 18:01, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Mr. Verhelst, what is your problem? Here you accuse me of sockpuppetry [77], here you accuse me of tendentious edits [78][79]. This is ridiculous. My edits were not tendentious, I provided an edit rational in all cases (and some on the talk page). You have no consensus for your rv [80]. It's a shame you should be blaming me for tendentious editing. Intangible 18:45, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
  • I didn't acuse you of being or using a sockpuppet, I was discussing the possibility that you would return to Wikipedia after the arbcom decision as a sockpuppet, and how the arbcom decision could be inforced in that case.
  • You might have added the diff where I provided an explanation for calling your edits tendentious : [81].
--LucVerhelst 21:52, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Could someone please have a friendly word with him ? Please ? [82], [83], [84], here he seems to have realised he couldn't go on on the first track, deciding to try something new : [85], [86] --LucVerhelst 21:12, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

From WP:PROB "Striking out at users on probation is strongly discouraged." It seems you now already have struck out on me on more than three occassions, the latest being [87]. This is really uncalled for Mr. Verhelst, and I hope an administrator will have a word with you, because this is tiresome. Intangible 08:35, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
People that disagree with you on the subject of an article are not necessarily striking at you personally, you know. Or do you mean the reference to your ArbCom case ? I think I am fully entitled to point out to you in what way you are -in my opinion- violating the ArbCom decision/your probation. --LucVerhelst 09:34, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

One more : [88] --LucVerhelst 10:39, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

And these maybe on the BBET article[89], [90] and on the Neo-Nazism article[91] --LucVerhelst 10:50, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, but these edits were necessary to make sure no false authority is given to the view of this journalist. There is enough conspiracist thinking going around at Wikipedia. Cas Mudde, a well-known political science professor at the University of Antwerpen, who studies neo-nazi groups in West Europe, had never heard of BBET before, but somehow this journalist knows all! Intangible 16:57, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
This article of 3 March 2006 already mentioned BBET. And This article from 14 April 2006. And this article of 17 May 2006. I wonder where you got the information that Cas Mudde never heard of BBET. --LucVerhelst 22:04, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
[92]. Intangible 11:45, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Intangible is again engaging in disruptive behavior concerning the BBET (and the relevant article & apparently also in Neo-Nazism). Before the arrests following the terrorist plans of BBET, the group was well known by ALL far right specialists, although most thought it was nothing more than a review and a group of neo-nazi teenagers. The police searches found military grade weapons, bombs and assassination plots, which make of it more than a simple "teenagers cult". He is deleting information, and changing content, claiming — against all of the Belgian press — that Manuel Abramowicz is not a "specialist of the far right". Please see fr:Manuel Abramowicz for credentials, as well as fr:ResistanceS for information on the website (which uses lots of scholars, see the list — even if you don't speak French you will see the links to the Universities in question). Intangible claims to know better than the Belgian press about the relevancy of various factors. This is a breach of Wikipedia:No Original Research and he is arguing just for the sake of arguing. Enough! Tazmaniacs 14:35, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
  • The link I provided above (in Dutch) is to one of these "far right specialists" Cas Mudde. You can check Google Scholar [93] and see his many peer reviewed publications and citations to his work. Mudde had never heard of BBET before. He also says: "I cannot directly see how any terrorist campagne can be executed by any of such groups." I have nothing more to add to your averse writing Mr. Tazmaniacs. Intangible 18:33, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
Your link dates from 8 September 2006. I provided three articles mentioning BBET in March, April and May. They're articles from one of the Belgian quality papers. I really don't understand how professor Mudde could have overlooked them, being focused on the far right that much.
Actually, I must admit that I never heard of professor Mudde before you mentioned him. That's a bit strange, since I'm quite interested in politics, and he's a professor at the university in my home town.--LucVerhelst 19:48, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

FIY, Intangible also seems to be involved in Wikipedia:Requests for mediation/Neo-Fascism. --LucVerhelst 08:25, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

User:Will314159 is the reason why mediation is being sought. Please do not make suggestive comments on things you clearly have no idea about. Intangible 12:20, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
I assumed that the people the information was meant for are wise enough to evaluate this. I was a bit reluctant to mention the mediation case, but thought it was best to mention it here anyway, making the work lighter for the administrators.--LucVerhelst 14:54, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Personal attack[edit]

I feel I have been personally attacked by Intangible at [94] and [95]. I left a {{npa2}} template on his talk page. --LucVerhelst 20:12, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

And here. --LucVerhelst 20:19, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
And here. --LucVerhelst 14:17, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
[96] --LucVerhelst 15:38, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Today I left the {{npa3}} template on his talk page, now I see he archived his entire talk page. Is this appropriate ? --LucVerhelst 22:11, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, there are two schools of thought on that. There are people who read the user page guidelines and say what you do with your talk page is no big deal, and there are poeple who read the vandalism policies that say that removing valid warnnings from one's own talk page is vandalism. (There was even an edit war recently over what the policy should be, if you can believe that.) I tend to think that it's not necessary to treat warnings like {npa} as some kind of scarlet letter. He obviously saw it if he archived it, and if it ever becomes an issue its right there in the page history so he can never say he wasn't warned.
I'm going to look into the further particulars of your situation tonight, but right now I have to be offline for about 4 hours. Thatcher131 22:23, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
Agree with Thatcher131. A warning need not stay on a talk page after it is read. Admins need to look at the history when giving warning and blocking anyway. --FloNight 13:26, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


I'm starting to get the feeling that Intangible is now showing behaviour that could constitute trolling. Especially when looking at Talk:Bloed, Bodem, Eer en Trouw, or this edit. Could someone look into this aspect, and confirm or deny my feeling ? Thank you. --LucVerhelst 20:19, 24 September 2006 (UTC) Another example.--LucVerhelst 08:28, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


I don't see anything worth taking action for yet. Intangible's calling some of your comments "nonsense" is personal, and a mild personal attack. But the two remedies available are to block him (per the usual blocking policy), or to ban him from the articles in question (per the arbitration decision). These comments wouldn't deserve a block from another user and I'm not convinced they should in this case. Also, repeatedly tagging experienced users with {npa} templates is often viewed as not a very nice thing to do, and you certainly don't need to edit war over their removal. A few nice words is often enough, and if not, then at least you've got nothing negative on your account. Otherwise, the article talk page comments look like two people with a content dispute who have stopped listening to each other. I don't yet see any trolling.

An article ban is a blunt instrument and I'm also not sure at this time that it is warranted. Let me explain why. Although arbitration decisions deal with user behavior, I have looked into the content dispute underlying this situation. There seems to be an effort to link the Belgian political party BBET with an American professor from a fringe white supremacist movement. This is based on a French language report that in turn is drawn from sources including the professor's remarks published in an obscure 24 page 3-times a year white supremacist newsletter. The newsletter is not online but the article is copied on a blog and on BBET's web site. Technically, WP:RS policy stands behind the newspaper. The allegations that the newspaper mistranslated the professor's remarks are poorly supported since the blog and BBET site they are cached on could have been altered. No one has produced a scan of a paper copy of the newsletter that could definitively impeach the newspaper. If such a copy were produced, it would not mean the newsletter was an RS, but it would cast strong doubt on the La Libre story.

However, I question the propriety of including the claim at all, even if it is sourced per policy. This is a classic example of attempting to prove guilt by association. I'm not sure why it is necessary to try and associate a Belgian political party with a fringe American to discredit it; would we include in an article on the US Democratic Party the fact that some party officials may have been visited by a fringe French or Belgian politician who was so obscure that the visit wasn't written about for two years? Surely there are sufficient Belgian sources to write an encyclopedia article about the activities of a Belgian political party in Belgium without having to rely on guilt by association through a single questioned newspaper article. I would strongly advice you to knock off the guilt-by-association unless you have more evidence of significant contacts between BBET and American white supremacists.

Regarding Abromowitz, I wonder about a "journalist" founding an advocacy web site. American journalists aren't generally allowed to be members of advocacy groups, much less be founders. You need to be very careful in selecting sources that are reporting, not advocacy (for example, newspaper articles, but not editorials) and a reporter who is also an advocate presents a real problem.

Intangible has been sanctioned for engaging "in tendentious editing which minimizes the neo-fascist tendencies of [nationalist or right wing European political] parties." But this case is a poor example of this and does not yet (in my opinion) rise to the level of a ban. Develop better sources, and avoid guilt by association. Things BBET said or did are vastly more powerful than who they have associated with. I didn't really want to analyze the content dispute but I did; hopefully this will prove helpful to any other admin who reviews the situation. Thatcher131 04:41, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

  • Note on the side : BBET isn't a political party, it's a small neo nazi grouping.
  • Aside from that, I largely agree with your response. --LucVerhelst 12:39, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
The issue is indeed not about BBET being a neo nazi group, it is about alleged ties of BBET to a mainstream political party (VB), which do not exist. Intangible 14:33, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification from both of you. It seems to me like the currently available evidence for a connection has some problems. In any case, edit warring over it is not the solution. If you can't find stronger evidence, you can try a request for comment, third opinion, or mediation. If there is a strong consensus one way or the other after some additional dispute resolution processes, and the article is still disrupted, there would be a stronger case for intervention. Thatcher131 14:40, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
I disagree with Intangible. The issue is not about alleged ties with the VB, the issue is about the way Intangible thinks he can edit. He simply refuses to discuss the content of the matter. --LucVerhelst 15:16, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
It looks like you both have discussed the content issue so much that you are no longer paying attention to each other and are just repeating old arguments. You think the LaLibre story is a reliable source and his argument about mistranslation is original research. He thinks the English language version of Griffin's comments proves the newspaper story is based on a mistranslation. My thoughts on the matter aren't important, as arbitration is about user conduct, not content. I do not at this time see this as one-sided disruption, but two people being equally stubborn. Please engage in one of the dispute resolution mechanisms I described above. Thatcher131 15:29, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
I just want to note that about everybody who has had to deal in the past with Intangible has stopped listening to him. This is why Cberlet has made a Rfa against him, and why he is on "parole". This explains why Luc Verhelst, whose used to dealing diplomaticall with people he disagree with, is having troubles communicating with Intangible. Intangible has decredibilized him in the eyes of 99% of the people here. I don't know if it's possible to have a fresh start (I'd like it too: I don't like the idea of banning someone forever because of some mistakes), but he certainly needs one if he wants to be able to edit in a confortable environment. Now, concerning the issue of the debate itself, BBET is not a party, but a fringe neofascist group. In this sense, it is not an attempt to smear by association to quote La Libre Belgique on its connections with the US revisionist professor, but a demonstration of the international links of neofascism. Any scholar who studies neo-fascism knows that, as fringe far-left group (trotskyists, etc), they can survive only by maintaining international connections. Thus, it is an important thing to point out. Second, alleged links between BBET & Vlaams Belang (as between French skinheads and the Front National) can be found in many newspaper articles and scholars' studies. For the simple reason that skinheads are used as "order service" during demonstrations of far-right, more "respectable" organizations. Last, Thatcher31's remarks concerning journalism & activism is perfectly valid... in the US, as he has pointed out. In Europe, advocacy journalism is very common, and it is actually only under the influence of Anglo-Saxon press that some have started advocating "neutral journalism" (such as Le Monde). But, to the contrary of the States, this is certainly not the norm in Europe. If you take French newspapers, apart of Le Monde which has positionned itself as an "objective, non-partisan" newspaper (which of course has been questionned; e.g. it supported Edouard Balladur during the 1995 presidential elections), Libération conceived itself as a left-wing newspaper, Le Figaro as an openly conservative newspaper (very good on international matters, but very partisan on national matters), and, of course, L'Humanité which used to be the Communist party's newspaper. Take Italy: all newspapers were organs of political parties. Etc. Tazmaniacs 20:38, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
Maybe you should ask yourself why User:Jvb and User:1652186 have stopped editing the Vlaams Belang article. Intangible 22:57, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
User:1652186 has stopped editing on Wikipedia altogether. User:Jvb took quite a long wikibreak.
I don't know why User:Jvb left on wikibreak, I always assumed he just changed user names.
The (real) reason User:1652186 left to me becomes clear with this diff: "this pretty much summarizes everything I've tried to show about Belgium in the past few months". I believe User:1652186 was trying to use Wikipedia as a forum for his beliefs, and got frustrated when he discovered that not everyone agreed with his viewpoints. --LucVerhelst 11:59, 1 October 2006 (UTC)


Please check out this diff, with this comment : "removed per, anything cochez writes about Belien is pretty much bull". He removes content, that is based on articles from one of the country's quality newspapers, and refers for his removal to a web log. How am I supposed to react to this ? --LucVerhelst 15:23, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Well, he removed three sources citing a weblog, it seems. I can't read dutch. Ask him to explain on the talk page why each of those sources fails WP:V, since he has cited it himself in the BBET talk page. Thatcher131 15:35, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
I did it, and he replied: "I did not remove these sources based on WP:V.". --LucVerhelst 15:58, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
I'm not going to edit the article for you. You need to engage him in a good faith discussion on the talk page. If he doesn't have good reason to remove the comments, put them back. If he acts disruptively and won't explain his edits, report it here again or to the administrators noticeboard. On BBET you both had good points and you both stopped listening to each other. Don't get into that pattern again. Thatcher131 16:11, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


We talked about this on the talk page Talk:Vlaams Belang#Pro Flandria. I believe WP:NPOV#Undue weight was appropriate here (and I even proved it with a newspaper reference).--LucVerhelst 14:41, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
You didn't prove anything. The organization had its views published in the main newspapers of Belgium, De Tijd and De Standaard (they were not as you simply called them "letters to the editor"), and I can easily provide 10+ other news articles of these two papers in which the organization is mentioned. Intangible 15:30, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
We talked about this in your ArbCom case, where you repeatedly suggested to get me involved. My quote : "I already revealed my personal political stance on 17 Dec 2005 : [98]. If there is doubt about the neutrality of my edits, I would welcome very much any example." The arbitrators decided not to look into my case, and you did not provide any example. Furthermore, I am making it clear to anyone what my affiliation is : see my userpage. --LucVerhelst 14:30, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
I suggested to get you involved?! Intangible 15:30, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Arthur Ellis[edit]

  • The remedies for the ArbComm decision concerning Warren Kinsella were that Arthur Ellis was banned from the Warren Kinsella and related pages, with the exception of the talk page for Mark Bourrie. He is also to limit himself to one account.
IP blocked 24 hours, Arthur Ellis (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) blocked for 12 hours, since he is involved in another open arbitration. Thatcher131 19:16, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I was blocked for 24 hoursArthur Ellis 23:35, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Well, I set the block on your username for 12 hours, partly because there have been so many IP addresses associated with you edits in the past. If you were blocked for the full 24 hours, it must have been due to the IP block. I'll update the block log at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Warren Kinsella to reflect what actually occurred. Even though my attempt to take it easy on you in view of the other open case failed, 24 hours was appropriate to the violation. Thatcher131 23:39, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
I only use one IP, so a 24-hour IP block is a 24-hour user name block. Are you trying to entice me to use more than one IP? That just wouldn't be right! Arthur Ellis 02:22, 3 October 2006 (UTC)


The Arbitration Committee has found User:Tonycdp conducting personal attacks against User:Asterion in Spanish (can be seen at Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Kosovo/Workshop#Personal_attack_by_Tonycdp). He is being found disruptive by the ArbCom (User:Dmcdevit, User:Fred_Bauder, User:The_Epopt, User:Jayjg and User:Jdforrester) at Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Kosovo/Proposed_decision#Tonycdp_is_disruptive. I will now quote the decision of the ArbCom that was approved by the ArbCom on 14 September 2006: For the duration of this case, any of the named parties may be banned by an uninvolved administrator from Kosovo or related pages for disruptive edits. Tonycdp is a party in the Arbitration over the Kosovo article (see Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Kosovo#Involved_parties). He has made articles called Southern North Kosovo and West Kosovo and according to this diff disrupted the Wikipedia violating Wikipedia:Don't disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point. I will now quote User:Consumed_Crustacean from User_talk:Tonycdp#WP:POINT: may be placed on a ban from Kosovo and related articles while the arbitration case is underway. Consider that ban now active, thanks to these edits of yours. It will be lifted once the case is over, and whatever decision they make will take its place. If you create or edit any articles related to Kosovo, you will be blocked (by myself or another administrator) from editing the Wikipedia for some period of time. -- Consumed Crustacean (talk) 16:16, 29 September 2006 (UTC) He was thus banned from Kosovo-related articles on 29 September 2006 and the Arbitration on Kosovo still lasts. However, he violated the ban, editing Kosovo in 09:44, 3 October 2006. Then he edited Dardania (Europe) in 10:17, 3 October 2006 (which is a part of the History of Kosovo series). And then he edited Priština (capital city of Kosovo) in 10:20, 3 October 2006. I do not know if this can be applied to talk pages, but he has edited Talk:Kosovo in 09:51, 3 October 2006, 10:06, 3 October 2006, 10:26, 3 October 2006 and 15:40, 3 October 2006. According to the instructions of the administrator who banned him (User:Consumed_Crustacean) - he is to be blocked if he violates the ban, which he did. --PaxEquilibrium 19:58, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

admin Consumed Crustacean| blocked Tonycdp (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · edit filter log · block user · block log) for 48 hours for violating his article ban. Thatcher131 11:39, 4 October 2006 (UTC)


Infinity0 (talk · contribs) is on a revert parole, however he again started to engage in edit warring on Anarchism (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) [105], [106], [107]. -- Vision Thing -- 22:42, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

I was replacing weasel tags which you removed without discussion, whilst there was a discussion going on on the talk page. Whilst editing with other editors, it is extremely impolite to remove tags they have put there without addressing their concerns. -- infinity0 22:55, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
Oh yes. One more thing, as we chinese say. My revert parole is for content reverts only, not tag reverts. -- infinity0 22:56, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
In this case I agree that the reversion of the tags was a "content" reversion within the spirit of the decision. It is certainly commenting on and deprecating the content, so I count it as a content edit (as opposed to reversion of simple vandalism). Reverting the tag without discussion was defintely a violation of the parole. Infinity is required to discuss his reverts; he made no contributions to the article talk page yesterday. If the issue was under discussion by other editors, they could have replaced the tag if they felt it was needed. However the damage was minimal so consider this a warning. If Infinity want's to challenge my interpretation of "content", he can take it up with Arbcom in the Requests for clarification section of WP:RFAR. Thatcher131 02:30, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


Per Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Highways, SPUI is on probation, and he can be blocked for disrupting a page. It is obvious that this, this, and this is disruption of a page. --Rschen7754 (talk - contribs) 02:09, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Blocked for 15 minutes... that should be enough to calm him down I hope. He knows better. ++Lar: t/c 03:42, 14 October 2006 (UTC)


Irishpunktom (talk · contribs) is under Arbitration Committee sanction; he is not allowed to revert more than one article per week, per this decision: Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Irishpunktom#Irishpunktom_placed_on_revert_parole

In fact, Irishpunktom has been regularly reverting editors, though tending to keep it to one revert per article per day or two. As most people are not aware of the severity of his restrictions, he has been getting away with it. Jayjg (talk) 17:34, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

The following diffs show examples of the offending behavior
Deletes a link just inserted by previous editor.
Reverts an editor who has added an image to the article; this image's inclusion has been a matter of considerable debate and edit-warring on that article.
Reverts an editor who has just removed a sentence from the article.
Reverts an editor who has just added a disputed tag to the page.
Reverts an editor who is adding an image to the article; this image's inclusion has been a matter of considerable debate and edit-warring on that article.
Reverts an editor who has removed original research from the lead.
It looks like he is limited to one revert per article per week, not one revert throughout article space per week. Am I misreading that? Are there cases of more than one revert per article? Thatcher131 17:39, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
No, he's not allowed to revert more than one article per week. This week so far he's reverted 4 articles. Jayjg (talk) 21:03, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry, that's not how I read it. " Irishpunktom shall for one year be limited to one revert per article per week, excepting obvious vandalism. Further, he is required to discuss any content reversions on the article's talk page." Maybe another editor is watching this page and can give a third opinion. I see that Muhammad, for example, seems plagued with brand new single purpose accounts, but I don't see that Irishpunktom has violated the parole at Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Irishpunktom#Irishpunktom_placed_on_revert_parole, unless the parole was subsequently modified and not logged. Thatcher131 21:14, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
O.K., I see how you could read it that way as well. I've added two more reversions regarding the Muhammad article to the top of this report. Tom makes tiny reversions, far apart, sometimes against different editors or in different places, in the hopes no-one will notice. He also fails to discuss many of his reversions. Jayjg (talk) 21:25, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Just for the third opinion, yes it does seem to be one per article, per week, and yes he has contravened that. Article 1 of the "enforcement" section of the ruling clearly states a short block is in order, which Humus sapiens appears to have handled. Deizio talk 23:20, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
I would have started with 24 hours myself but I have no objections to the 48 hour block imposed by Humus. Not only were there three reverts of the image in a week, there was no discussion by IPT on the talk page as required, and these particular reversions were part of a larger revert war over this image. (I would have done it on the new diffs but I was out for a while tonight.) Thatcher131 03:14, 17 October 2006 (UTC)


Messhermit (talk · contribs) is under Arbitration Committee sanction; he is banned from editing the Alberto Fujimori entry. Moreover, he has continued personally attacking me Bdean1963 23 October 2006 —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talkcontribs)

I don't understand why this user is making this statement using an IP account. Besides one failed attempt by my part to moderate a dispute on that part, I totally reject Bdean's accusations. Messhermit 00:53, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I would like to request that we put this on hold for a day. I have filed an extensive complaint accusing Messhermit of being behind seven IP addresses at Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Messhermit. Every single one of these IP addresses has edited Alberto Fujimori. If it turns out that these IP addresses are indeed run by Messhermit, it would be a grave breach of his ban from editing Alberto Fujimori, and we would have to move foward on that. Let's wait until a decision is made on those IPs, though. --Descendall 09:11, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Just a heads up: it has been referred to Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Messhermit. --Descendall 22:15, 24 October 2006 (UTC)


In July, I was placed on probation as part of the decision in this RfA. I do not believe this decision was just, and I have chosen not to participate as an editor at Wikipedia rather than continue editing while subject to an unjust probation. In the nearly four months since that decision, I believe, subsequent events have demonstrated rather starkly that arbitrator Fred Bauder's initial assessment of the cause of the dispute was correct, and that JohnnyBGood, Rschen7754, and I should never have been placed on probation in relation to this matter. In addition, the underlying dispute has been harmoniously resolved, which suggests that the need for probation, assuming such need ever existed in the first place, has now ended. Accordingly, I request that this probation be formally lifted. Thank you. —phh (t/c) 00:40, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

You need to list your request on the main WP:RFAR page (maybe as Appeal to reopen the Highways case) or contact a couple of the arbitrators individually and ask them to reopen the case. No one watching this page has the authority to modify a case. Good luck. Thatcher131 00:49, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Thank you. —phh (t/c) 00:57, 26 October 2006 (UTC)


I'm starting a new subject header because this is totally independent of Bdean1963's complaint that Messhermit is uncivil.

Messhermit was placed on probation and banned from editing articles about the conflict between Peru and Ecuador (See Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Messhermit). However, he continued to edit Paquisha War, a war between Peru and Ecuador, as User: [108].

As part of his probation, Messhermit was banned from editing Alberto Fujimori [109]. However, he edited that article fifteen times after he was informed of the ban: once as User: [110], once as User: [111], once as User: [112], twice as User: [113][114], three times as User: [115][116][117], three times as User: [118][119][120], three times as User: [121][122][123], and once under his own name [124].

Please note that all of these IPs addresses have been confirmed as his at Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Messhermit.

Even if he wasn't banned from editing these articles, he would still be edit warring.

Because these edits constiture such blatant and persistant violations of his arbitration and probation, I think something ought to be done. --Descendall 00:23, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Blocked Five days as provided in the arbitration case. One accidental edit under his own name is worth a warning; checkuser shows this was deliberate and repeated. Thatcher131 01:51, 27 October 2006 (UTC)


A user that has had more than one account, one being User:Nobs01, one being User:Nobs, and perhaps some others with the letters "Nobs" in them was banned by ArbCom - Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Nobs01_and_others. He is not supposed to edit until December. However, I have noticed IPs which are editing the same area of interest Nobs was always interested in, in the same slant Nobs always edited in, namely the idea that every other liberal in the US from the 1930s to the 1950s in the US was a Soviet spy.

All of the Nobs-like edits have been coming from the IP range 4.240.x.x, some from 4.240.123.x, some from 4.240.186.x. I've also seen a few from other 4.240.x.x ranges that look like him

Probable Nobs ones I've seen so far -

IP's:[125] [126] [127] [128] [129] [130] [131]

If you compare Nobs01's edits to the edits from users from the IP range they use the same type of language and have the same odd obsessions (COINTELPRO proves everyone was a spy, citing Haynes and Klehr all the time etc.) Having dealt with Nobs so much, I know this is him, but for those not as familiar, you will probably have to do some comparing. I am also fairly confident that there are 4.240.x.x IPs I have missed that he is using. Ruy Lopez 23:37, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Well, none of the IPs you cite is any more recent that Sept 10. Since these are IPs the only thing that could be done is to reset Nobs' one-year ban, and I'm not comfortable doing that just on this basis. There is an old checkuser in which Fred Bauder comments about Nobs' geographic location. I'll ask and see if he still remembers. Thatcher131 00:48, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Based on Fred's comments [132] it doesn't seem like a clear enough case to reset the ban timer. Obviously you should keep an eye on this, though. Thatcher131 14:48, 30 October 2006 (UTC)


TDC (talk · contribs) is under Arbitration Committee sanction of some sort. The final decision in their case is here: Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Depleted_uranium#TDC_placed_on_revert_parole.

"TDC is hereby limited to 1 content revert per article per day and must discuss all content reverts on the relevant talk page for one year. He may be briefly blocked for up to a week for violations. After 5 such blocks the maximum block time increases to a year."

The following diffs show the offending behavior
TDC did not notify other editors the presence of the eight-month grudge as mandated by ArbCom, and proceeded on name-calling and refuses to acknowledge his clearly uncivil behavior.
  • Torture, a random perusal of TDC's contribs page shows 1, 2, and 3 without ANY corresponding note on the talk page.

I believe this user has willfully engaged in disruptive and antagonistic behavior, the kind explicitly advised against by the new WP:DE#Dealing_with_disruptive_editors guideline. He has done so more than once and been warned since he was put on parole; see more violations. I didn't realize the seriousness of the matter until I read his talk page, where I also see a lot of fishing for votes. I see five violations after a casual read...what will it take to stop a determined vandal?

Reported by: [[Xiner 03:39, 31 October 2006 (UTC)|Xiner]]

First of all, none of those edits is a reversion. TDC is allowed to edit articles. A revert would be, for example, if he re-added the paragraph about the Cornell student after you removed it. Second of all, copy-pasting stories and candidate press releases from the World Socialist Web site into an article violates at least three policies I can think off (WP:NPOV, WP:RS and WP:COPYVIO) and removing them wouldn't count against his revert parole even if he had reverted the edits twice in the same day, which he didn't. There's no violation here. Thatcher131 06:46, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Please look at the Turn Left edits again. TDC inserted something eight months ago that was promptly removed. Now he put it back. Given his history and the argument he put forth on the talk page, it's hard to assume good faith and not see it as a sneaky revert attempt. You don't have to actually revert an article to a previous version for an edit to be considered a revert. Xiner 13:41, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Are you serious? First the sentence was a stealth delete from an anonymous user. Secondly, I already told you on the talk page that I was going to leave inclusion of the material to your discretion, and if you did not think it was notable, then I would trust your judgment on its exclusion. Methinks you protest too much all because I mocked the magazine and its editors on the talk page. Torturous Devastating Cudgel 14:26, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry. I didn't know mockery doesn't constitute unacceptable behavior on Wikipedia. Xiner 14:38, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Not a reversion under the meaning of the probation. TDC is not under personal attack parole or general probation, only revert parole, and I don't believe that comment was actionable. (If I can deal with two people accusing each other of libel while I try to clean up an autobiography they have been edit warring over, you can deal with a pointed comment about idealogues who don't walk the walk.) Thatcher131 14:47, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Thatcher131, I'm sorry if I'm making myself clear. I'm not asking anyone to take action over what TDC wrote on the talk page. My main objection is his re-insertion of a passage that was removed eight months ago from the Turn Left page. So far as I understand, an edit can be a revert without someone actually flipping to an earlier version of the document: "A partial revert is accomplished either by an ordinary edit of the current version" (Help:Reverting#How_to_revert). This is what TDC did, eight months on. Xiner 15:17, 31 October 2006 (UTC)


A new edit war has started over the introducion of the Kosovo (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) article (which is under article probation: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Kosovo#Kosovo related articles on Article probation). It involves quite a number of editors, some of which have reverted each other multiple times (below are only the editors which reverted more than once):

Removing introduction text multiple times:

Adding introduction text multiple times:

Perhaps an administrator can have a look at this and take appropriate action, the arbitration case dealt specifically with revert warring on the introduction of that article, although none of these editors was involved at that time. These three editors have been informed of this report on their talk pages. --Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 16:24, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

One of the other editors involved continued the story [140]:
--Cpt. Morgan (Reinoutr) 14:07, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
I didn't realise that there was an edit war going on in this article. I was trying to make a positive contribution by mentioning what most reliable sources do. I answered the crystal ball argument in the talk page by saying that there are many articles that in one way or another predict the future if that future is regarded my many as more or less certain. As such I regarded the removal of the paragraph as a form of depletion of the article which could otherwise be more informative.Sanmint 15:11, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
I think the article is generally calm at this point as there hs only been this one revert and there seems to be discussion on the talk page. Bans are meant to be preventative and educative, and the first temporary ban seems to have had the desired effect (so far). Thatcher131 00:46, 5 November 2006 (UTC)


Gzornenplatz (talk · contribs) is under Arbitration Committee sanction of some sort. The final decision in their case is here: [143] + multiple accounts permanently blocked by Jimbo.

The following diffs show the offending behavior
  • Editing Wikipedia using an obvious sock account (Harvardy) in contravention to several indefinite blocks imposed by the Arbcom followed by an permanent indefinite block imposed by Jimbo.

Edits by Harvardy to micronation and Empire of Atlantium are identical to previous trolling and vandalism of these articles over many years by Wik and Gzornenplatz. The owner of these accounts is indefinitely blocked from editing Wikipedia and is openly circumventing that block.

Reported by: 05:15, 6 November 2006 (UTC)


Ericsaindon2 (talk · contribs) is banned for one year by the Arbitration Committee. The final decision in their case is here: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Ericsaindon2.

This user was caught by CheckUser using the sockpuppet Architect King (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) in this CheckUser request.

The following diffs show the offending behavior
This violates Remedy 2: Ericsaindon2 banned, which bans him for a year. This is his last edit before CheckUser caught him.
This is another Remedy 2 violation.

Please lengthen the ban on Ericsaindon2 (talk • contribs • deleted contribs • nuke contribs • logs • filter log • block user • block log) to 23:51, 6 November 2007 UTC per the banning policy and the timestamp on the first diff I cited above.

Reported by: Jesse Viviano 05:16, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I've logged this in at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Ericsaindon2#Log of blocks and bans.
Something is not working. The latest block on Ericsaindon2's block log is one from 10 October. Do you need to unblock before reblocking? Jesse Viviano 08:05, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, I'll take care of that. His transgressions have been so frequent that it hasn't been worth restting the software block every time. -Will Beback 08:21, 8 November 2006 (UTC)


Butterfly123456 (talk · contribs) is under Arbitration Committee sanction of some sort. The final decision in their case is here.

Butterfly123456 (talk · contribs) is a single purpose account that has only made edits on the talk page of St Christopher Iba Mar Diop College of Medicine.

The following diffs show the offending behavior
Per the ArbCom's list of Remedies, "Any of the single-purpose accounts mentioned above, or any other accounts or IPs an administrator deems to be an account used solely for the editing of St Christopher Iba Mar Diop College of Medicine or related pages, may be banned from that article or related pages for disruptive edits."

I believe that Butterfly123456 (talk · contribs) is a single purpose account who only has edited to push his/her POV on the article's talk page (since the main page is protected). Per the ArbCom, this user can be blocked from editing the article and its related pages (which includes the talk page). The editor has been made aware of the notice at his/her talk page, and I was an involved party in the arbitration request.

Reported by: Leuko 19:55, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

The edits are not disruptive under the normal usage of the term, although there is a reasonable argument to be made that the account should be banned as sockpuppet of a banned user. Butterfly has not edited since being identified so there doesn't seem much point in taking further action unless he edits again. Thatcher131 14:33, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

User:Ruy Lopez[edit]

Ruy Lopez (talk · contribs) is under Arbitration Committee probation for edit warring (amongst other things). The final decision in their case is here.

Ruy Lopez is current edit warring on History of Soviet espionage in the United States. Accroding to the ArbCom decision: “Any administrator may ban Ruy Lopez from an article where he is engaged in edit warring, removal of sourced material, POV reorganizations of the article or any other activity which that administrator considers disruptive.” Lopez has been removing large amounts of material, much of it sourced, some of it not sourced, claiming it was added by another banned user. When I asked him to put [citation needed] tags up, so I could find the relevant citation [150], he refused and continued to delete most of the article.

The following diffs show the offending behavior
Summation: Please remedy this, and warn user:Abe.Froman who has decided to take up Lopez’s torch in this matter.

Reported by: Torturous Devastating Cudgel 16:33, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I banned Ruy Lopez from the article for 5 days. It's meant to be a nudge in the right direction. I'm frankly unhappy with all of you. You all seem to have a strong command of the source material so you should be able to work together and straighten this out. Thatcher131 01:32, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Heads up on User:Messhermit[edit]

Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Messhermit

Messhermit was banned a while ago from editing Alberto Fujimori. After that, a whole flock of BellSouth IP addresses based in Miami, Florida started editing Alberto Fujimori. Every one of them was confirmed by checkuser to be Messhermit, see Wikipedia:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/Messhermit. Messhermit was blocked for five days. Once again, we have Miami-based BellSouth IPs editing Alberto Fujimori, such as User: Looks like this issue might become a problem once again. --Descendall 22:13, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

I blocked the most recent IP. Unfortunately Messhermit has not edited himself in 16 days, so blocking the account will be a pro forma remedy. As long as it's only one or two edits a day you will have to deal with it in the usual way. He seems to have such a wide range of IPs that a rangeblock would do far too much collateral damage. Thatcher131 23:02, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Confusion on Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/FourthAve[edit]

Mike Rosoft 20:24, 21 November 2006 (UTC)
Your reasoning seems sound per Wikipedia:Banning policy. If you want an answer from the arbitrators you'll have to post at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#Requests for clarification. Thatcher131 20:31, 21 November 2006 (UTC)


Intangible (talk · contribs) is under Arbitration Committee sanction for "disrupts by tendentious editing." The final decision in their case is here: Ruling.

After a brief period of appropriate editing, User:Intangible has resumed "disrupts by tendentious editing." This primarily takes the form of idiosyncratic POV pushing reagrading the status and terminolgy used to describe various groups considered right wing by a majority of scholars.

The following diffs show the offending behavior
Total deletion of a list of "Parties Considered to be on the Far Right."
Deletion of political tendency noted by many scholars to be far right or similar term.

I have been struggling with User:Intangible for days on several articles where this pattern of disruptive editing has re-appeared. If needed, I can provide other diffs that show the offending behavior. I thought that by starting with one incident, the sanction could be mild and instructive, rather than punitive. Note that the case was "Closed on 08:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)." Note the dates of the diffs cited by Intangible below. I have been attempting to get this user to abide by the arbitration decision. --Cberlet 02:51, 14 November 2006 (UTC) Note further deletion by Intangible: Diff.--Cberlet 02:57, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Reported by: Cberlet 16:33, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

This is a bad faith attempt by User:Cberlet. I already [155][156] went to the talk page earlier to discuss this issue, but nobody (and certainly not you) replied there. If anyone is being tendentious it is you. Really, I should make a list of all the times you mention my so-called "idiosyncracy" [157] or "POV pushing" [158] (while User:Nikodemos seemed to agree with me, expanding the section some more [159]) or "acting like a jerk" [160] or "apologist for neofascism" [161]. This is only a small sampling, but I believe that all these comments by User:Cberlet taken together constitute a serious personal attack on my person. Where should I look for community input into this matter? Intangible 17:40, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Just for the sake of completeness, on November 12, User:Flying Hamster said "This article is suitable in its POV/accuracy however". [162] This was before User:Cberlet entered the POV list to this article on November 13. [163] Intangible 10:18, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Just for the sake of even more completeness, somehow my removal of a list of "far left" organizations from the Far left article did not cause an upset with User:Cberlet. [164][165][166][167] . Intangible 17:00, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Regarding Intangible, no action on the diffs cited. Neither of those lists had any citations. (Can you imaging, for example, List of celebrity lesbians without reliable sources?) In the case of Parties Considered to be on the Far Right, note that considered to be is weasel terminology, and many of those parties are not identified as "Far right" in their own main articles, so compilation of the list looks like someone's opinion. I suggest rebuilding the list including only parties that are labeled far right in their main articles, assuming such labeling is backed up by reliable sources. (In some cases the label is applied perjoratively by critics and disputed by the party itself; it will likely be unproductive to go over the labeling issue in two articles, which I why I suggest basing inclusion in a list on the terminology used in the main article, with leeway allowed for disputes—perhaps Parties labeled as "Far right;" see main article for more information.) Likewise for the inclusion of paleocons—find some pundits to source the statement to.
Regarding Cberlet, you can try Mediation or a user conduct Request for comment. Thatcher131 07:56, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
The list included British National Party, National Front (France) and Austrian Freedom Party, to name a few. These three parties are considered as far right by political commentators, newspapers, etc. I don't see why they should not be included. Sources are given in the relevant articles (no need to move the "edit battle" with tendencious editors such as Intangible to all Wikipedia: let's keep to the relevant far right parties articles). User:LucVerhelst has just taken a long wikibreak, tired of edit-warring with Intangible on
Intangible has kept the same attitude that he always had. Tazmaniacs 13:03, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
The list also included Freedom Front Plus and National Front (Belgium) which are not described in those terms. Intangible may be banned from articles he edits disruptively. In this case I do not see disruptive editing. He removed the list in June after a 6 day waiting period on the talk page. Cberlet added it back without discussing it at all, and Intangible has not even removed it again. If (for example) someone were to update the list using the criteria I suggested (or some other criteria based on reliable sources rather than one person's opinion), and explain the reasoning on the talk page, and Intangible were to continue to remove it, that might actually constute disruption. The thing is, Intangible being under arbitration does not relieve other editors of the obligation to provide sources or work with him. Let me give two counter-examples. Editor A removes several sourced sections from an article alleging the US engages in state-sponsored terrorism. The sources proved that bad things happened, but not that the US was alleged to be behind them. While editor B went to AN/I to complain, editor C found and added sources making the allegations of a US government connection; editor A agreed the sources were acceptable and the article was ultimately improved by the addition of reliable sources through the wiki process. One the other hand, editor X frequently disputes classification of bands in different music sub-genres, edit warring with other music fans. In every case I have looked into, there are no reliable sources offered on either side, and the classification of a band is based on web forums or statements like "every fan knows this", "this band is generally considered to be" and so on. If Intangible disputes editors' characterizations of far right groups, make sure you are quoting reliable sources rather than your own opinions. If he removes them then, it may constitute disruption. If he adds sources with differing views, then you report the views of all reliable sources per NPOV policy. Thatcher131 13:38, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Intangible games the system by finding one cite that is then claimed to refute all other cites. Then there is a staged debate over deleting all the cited published material that claims a group or person is part of the political right. Certainly we all need to provide sources, but the reason I picked Far right is that it was part of the summer editing blitz by Intangible involving hundreds of pages, in which editors could not even keep up with his massive deletions. That's why the artitration was opened in the first place. Intangible posted the comments on Far right before the arbitration was opened. Then months later deleted the material. There are scores of pages where Intangible can do this. It violates the spirit and intent of the probation. Please go back and read the arbitration. It is not about sourcing, it is about Intangible disrupting "articles which relate to nationalist or right wing European political parties. It is alleged that Intangible engages in tendentious editing which minimizes the neo-fascist tendencies of such parties." Intangible does not constructively participate in writing entries that explore a variety of views, Intangible engages in promoting an idiosyncratic POV that sanitizes from entries published claims regarding right-wing affiliation.--Cberlet 14:22, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I am aware of the arbitration record and I believe I have been reasonably diligent in pursuing an understanding of the complaints against Intangible (see here, here and here). Intangible may be banned from articles for disruptive editing. "Disruptive" is always going to be a matter of judgement, of course, but I don't think any uninvolved admin would find changing an article once in June and once in October to be "disruptive." I was very concerned about BBET when it was brought here, but as both Intangible and LucVerhelst were guilty of edit warring, I was wary of appying a one-sided sanction, and Dmcdevit shared the same concern. I was also prepared to ban Intangible from Paul Belien over his peculiar interpretation of the reliable source policy, but it seemed that Intangible and Luc were engaged in productive discussion on the talk page, which is a) not disruption and b) generally what we want people to do. Arbcom could have outright banned Intangible from editing articles about right wing politics and they declined to do so. As Mackensen said when I asked him about BBET, "Intangible represents a useful counterpoint to the other editors and hasn't passed the threshold at which his contributions cease being worthwhile." Maybe there are other articles or better examples of disruptive editing, but you haven't made the case regarding Far right and BBET. Thatcher131 16:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
For me the issue is not the one example I gave, but the continued pattern of tendentious and idiosyncratic claims made on discussion pages as a prelude for deleting text with which Intangible disagrees. Perhaps Intangible has now made my point far clearer. See here and here for Far Right; and here and herefor Progress Party (Norway) Endlessly contesting properly cited scholarly material with which Intangible disagrees is precesely why Intangible was put on probation in the first place.--Cberlet 14:07, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
And now this message to me from Intangible: here--Cberlet 14:09, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
I am becoming more concerned about Far right and have left a comment on the talk page regarding an apparent misunderstanding about WP:NPOV. I'll deal with the talk page as well. Sorry but I agree with Intangible on Progress Party (Norway), at least for now. The criticism section is woefully under-sourced and has had {{fact}} tags sitting on it for at least a month. This e-mail by Jimbo should be of some interest. I don't believe that pushing to have unsourced criticism backed up by a citation constitutes disruption in this example. Thatcher131 02:33, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
In the Progress Party (Norway) article Intangible is campaigning for more than just the removal of unsourced criticism; he desires to delete several scholarly citations which describe the Progress Party as "radical right". He and another editor, User:Heptor, demand that the party be labelled according to its own skewed perceptions of itself. Moreover, Intangible claims that news reports from mainstream, reputable media organzations such as the BBC and CNN are inadequate. Yet, even when I insert the opinions of the scholarly sources he's always clamouring about, he claims that they are outdated and therefore irrelevant or that their opinions are invalid because they don't all use the same definition of "radical right"; so it is impossible to satisfy his demands. He has used these same specious arguments in articles about other far-right parties; they are what caused him to be banned in the first place, as you know. -- WGee 03:06, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Cberlet's diffs did not show that. Can you provide some, please? Thatcher131 03:10, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
You should read the last two threads on the talk page whenever you have the opportunity, but in the meantime here are a couple of comments on the talk page that exemplify Intangible's disruptive nit-picking:
What about the sentence "I use the label ‘populist right’ as opposed to the ‘new radical right’ (Kitschelt and McGann 1995), since I wish to underline that these parties’ 1990s manifestations are generally not radically neo-liberal on the economic issue dimension, and being so is a defining feature of Kitschelt and McGann’s ‘new radical right’ category" don't you understand? Intangible 12:37, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
You don't understand. There is a debate over terminology among scholars. Each author tries to define a specific subset of right-wing politics. Our job is not to point out the terminological variation, but to highlight the central themes of the nmajority of scholars of the political right. Intangible, you continue to use these terminological debates, which are well-known in the field, as an excuse to sanitize from many articles any claim from a reputable published source that a particular group is right-wing, or far right, or extreme right. This is the core of the problem with your disruptive, endless, contrary, nit-picking discussions on this and other pages. You have a POV, and you engage in territorially priapic, structurally omphaloskeptic, faux intellectual word games to mask your POV war against majority scholarship. And yes, I do understand, since I co-wrote a book on the subject . . . . --Cberlet 13:15, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
-- WGee 03:22, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm not sure what your point is WGee. Re the Progress Party, I have already given examples that show the party is just labeled as "right-wing" or populist or whatelse, and I don't see what it would add to the article to say that "some label the party as right-wing, some label the party as radical right."
Hell, the only nitpicking is by you people, because you are never really concerned with doing actually more with the article, explaining the parties' platforms or whatever not. Hell, readers would easily discern from a political party's platform whatever the political party is about. They do not learn that from empty labels that serve no purpose but to prevent any honest discussion of the matter at hand. Intangible 11:35, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

<-------------The above statement by Intangible clearly demonstrates an unwillingness to abide by the guidelines regarding reputable sources established on Wikipedia. Intangible is a deletionist continuing a POV campaign to eradicate any scholarly terminology with which Intangible has any disagreement. Here is another clear example of Intangible scoffing at the terms of probation: Diff.. The position being articulated once again by Intangible is precisely the "disrupts by tendentious editing," that primarily take the form of idiosyncratic POV pushing regarding the terminolgy used to describe various groups considered "right wing" by a majority of scholars. Certainly there are matters here where more citation is required, but that is not the issue around which I am asking for enforcement of the probation through an appropriate administrative action.--Cberlet 15:57, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Intangible continues to appear to not comprehend the issues involved in the arbitration nor the parameters of the probation: Diff. I am going to take a break for a few days and see if others can seek to enforce the appropriate sanctions in this matter.--Cberlet 19:19, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I know I will not be popular in certain quarters, and I encourage you to find somone else to review the situation. In the current context, I don't find Intangible's edits to be disruptive enough to warrant page banning. I think both sides have misunderstood WP:NPOV. Intangible seems to want to neuter the article of any point of view, while Cberlet has been arguing that if a majority of academics state something, then it must be so. NPOV contemplates reporting all significant points of view. I would suggest that that introduction should have reasonably neutral intorduction, and a discussion in the body can report how different sources classify the party. However, classification of political parties as left, right, etc. is part of the way things are, and if Intangible continues to try and remove all attempts to report party labels that havbe been applied by others then I will consider an article ban. More on the article talk page. Thatcher131 12:37, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I believe that you are (probably accidentally) mischaracterizing Cberlet's position. He is not stating that "if a majority of academics state something, then it must be so". He is stating that if a majority of academics state something, that is the view that Wikipedia should report as the mainstream view on the matter. That is pretty much exactly Wikipedia:Reliable sources in a nutshell. - Jmabel | Talk 19:45, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

Request for another Admin to review this situation[edit]

Intangible continues the campaign: on Far right, and now with another AFD filing after failing to impose a minority POV on the page Economics of fascism: here. Could another Admin review this situation please?--Cberlet 15:47, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
This was the only way to get wider community interest into the debate. The Wikipedia community might as well agree to keep the article, instead of moving its contents to the other fascism articles. Intangible 16:27, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
And I'm not sure why you would vote even before I could get the afd process completed. [168]. That's just out of line. Intangible 16:31, 20 November 2006 (UTC)


This user is under a one-year ArbCom ban per Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/FourthAve. This ban has been reset once.

On September 23, however, he evaded his ban under the IP (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log):

After some clarification on this issue at Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Confusion_on_Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/FourthAve, it can be safe to say that the above edits constitute evasion of the one-year ban and thus requires a reset. Since I do not know of any further edits from FA, I hereby ask that someone unblock and reblock FA to September 23, 2007.

Reported by: Scobell302 23:17, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to let the discussion sit on the main RFAR page for a couple more days to see if any of the other arbitrators want to comment. When I move it to Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/FourthAve, I'll also note and reset the ban. Thatcher131 23:28, 27 November 2006 (UTC)


Copperchair (talk · contribs) is under Arbitration Committee sanction for tendentious editing on Star Wars and War on Terrorism. The editor is also currently on a 1 year and 1 day editing block (ending 2007-03-13) for violating the conditions of their probation. The final decision in their case is here: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Copperchair.

Is it possible to increase Copperchair's block to indefinite and block IP range 190.10.0.XX as well? Since the 1 year and 1 day block, Copperchair has continuously violated the block and the probation via sockpuppets most originating from the indicated IP range:

  1. Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Copperchair
  2. Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Copperchair
  3. Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Copperchair (2nd)
  4. Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Copperchair (3rd)
  5. Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Copperchair (4th)
  6. Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Copperchair (5th)
  7. Wikipedia:Suspected sock puppets/Copperchair (6th)

Reported by: Bobblehead 04:23, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Well, for starters I will reset Copperchair's one year ban to one year from now. If he keeps it up it will amount to an indef block anyway. The IPs can't be blocked longterm because it might affect other users. When you see edits from that range the IP can be blocked briefly and the edits reverted, or the range blocked for a couple of days, but not longer. I'm afraid the only practical long term solution is to keep reverting his edits and hope he gets bored and finds something else to do. Thatcher131 20:20, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
    Well, better than nothing. Thanks! --Bobblehead 21:40, 26 November 2006 (UTC)