Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Archive21

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Eleland issues persist[edit]


Aatomic1[edit]

Grandmaster[edit]

Arbcom cases: Armenia-Azerbaijan and *Armenia-Azerbaijan 2' .

Only days after his AA1 1RR limitation expired and even after promising that he would stick to 1RR, Grandmaster is back at edit warring. He has been re-adding the Azeri language template to the Nakhchivan khanate article that doesn't belong there since April 6th. The template doesn't belong there because that language didn't exist at the time. The only appropriate template would be the Persian/Arabic script that was used at the time. Since his first revert on April 6th he has reverted the article 5 times the last two came yesterday. He first reverted an IP address claiming him to be a banned user[15]. Then reverted me claiming that the first revert was to a banned user[16].

I would like to note that he is yet to provide the sources I requested almost a month ago[17], instead his gaming the system and edit warring. VartanM (talk) 07:18, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

Another frivolous report by VartanM. As I was explained by the arbitration clerk, reverting edits by banned users is not counted toward any parole limitation: [18] The first rv was fixing an obvious vandalism, it deleted info from the article and attacked the admin who reverted previous deletion of info: [19] The IP 149.68.165.134 (talk · contribs) is very similar to the IPs 149.68.165.88 (talk · contribs) and 149.68.31.146 (talk · contribs), which are proven socks of banned User:Azad chai, and it made the reverts identical to those by the banned user. Basically that vandal goes around and deletes Azerbaijani spellings from region related articles for no apparent reason. I believe anyone can compare those IPs and make his own judgment as to whether or not it is the same person. Once the vandalism by the banned user was reverted, VartanM continued edit war started by the banned user, failing to explain why the Azerbaijani spelling needed to be deleted from the article. VartanM has not demonstrated any wiki rule that does not allow inclusion of Azerbaijani spellings into the articles. So I only made 1 rv of deletion of info by VartanM in support of the banned user. This is not is not violation of my parole, which is not in force anymore but which I agreed to observe voluntarily. I don’t think reporting for reverting obvious vandalism by banned user is anything other than an attempt to get rid of an opponent. Grandmaster (talk) 07:48, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Also, please note that VartanM himself reverted the article in question 3 times during the same period (i.e. since 7 April, when anon vandals started attacking this article), but unlike me he was not reverting the banned user. And I did not make 5 rvs like VartanM claims, just 4, of which 2 were vandalism by the banned user, so I stayed perfectly within my former revert limit and in fact made less reverts than the person who reports me. In addition, I discussed the issue in much detail on talk, but VartanM failed to provide any valid reason for deletion of Azerbaijani spelling, and chose instead to join the banned user in edit warring. Also note that since beginning of April a number of articles got semi-protected because of activity of the same anon vandals, among them Caucasian Albania, Erivan khanate, Shusha, Yerevan, Kirovabad pogrom, and others, but anons keep on edit warring, and some established users help them. Grandmaster (talk) 09:37, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
The fact that deserves the attention is coordinated activity of VartanM and the banned user Azad chai, who hides behind multiple anon IPs. Those 2 revert in support of each other, and it appears to be an attempt to bait other users and then report them. I would be glad to be wrong on this, but facts speak for themselves. See how many times IPs in that range and VartanM reverted in support of each other on various articles, is it just a coincidence, considering the above report? And who is really gaming the system? Grandmaster (talk) 08:15, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
In the meantime the sock activity on Nakhchivan khanate continues: [20] An admin just blocked another IP in 149.68... range for block evasion: [21] Grandmaster (talk) 15:22, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
It seems as though VartanM has a green light to harass people - [22] and [23], falsely associate identities for intimidation [24] and even accuse the reporter of fundamental WP:HARASS violation of "forum shopping" with support of obviously non-neutral administrator, edit war (see AA ArbCom 2), waste time in WP:AE endlessly, coordinate with socks, respond to every single report on every single board in attempt to yield it unreadable, and yet remain unrestricted for all these violations. One wonders why would VartanM seek to report someone on AE, which he himself has pretty much proved to be ineffective if not useless. Atabek (talk) 16:08, 30 April 2008 (UTC)

And here is how disregard to behavior such as that of VartanM, Fedayee against myself, User:Ehud Lesar and User:AdilBaguirov impact the community [25]. Perhaps, it's time to pay attention and explain disruptive nationalist POV pushing editors, that they should concentrate on topics rather than on identity of editors. Atabek (talk) 17:04, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

User: VegitaU and User: Aude[edit]


Martinphi[edit]

Tachyonbursts[edit]

Arbcom case: Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/September 11 conspiracy theories


GDD1000[edit]


Justallofthem[edit]


ScienceApologist on an IP?[edit]


Eupator[edit]

Arbcom case: AA 1 or 2, or maybe just general sanctions.

Community ban of MarkBA for repeated sockpuppetry[edit]

"Probation" violations?[edit]

Eyrian on an IPs?[edit]

Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/JohnEMcClure confirmed that Eyrian, who participated aggresively in AfDs and last edited in October 2007 and who was subsequently blocked per Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Eyrian, made "numerous IP edits". Notice this IP's edit history that follows seems to focus on certain kinds of articles. Now today, notice this edit in which the IP writes, "It's been awhile since I've seen an ipc article nominated", but if you look again at the edit history of the IP, there are NO previous edits to any IPC articles, which thus makes that statement odd and as if it is from someone who either edits using different IPs or who is an old user. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 18:37, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

  • There are many editors who are AFD regulars (this IP certainly is if it is a stable IP) and care about IPC, fancruft, trivia, episodes, and the like. Any specific reason you think this is Eyrian as opposed to someone else? And do you really think the closing admins are going to pay any attention to IP comments that don't make new arguments? I don't think the admins will. GRBerry 18:57, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
    • I think Eyrian, because the IP's edits start around the time that Eyrian stopped editing from his Eyrian account (in October 2007) and started using different accounts and IPs. I suppose one of the arbitration committee checkusers could check the IP to see (I'm not sure if they could go back far enough to check if it's Eyrian, but if it is someone also using additional current accounts or IPs, those might show up). Best, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 18:58, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
      • Two possibilities. 1) This isn't Eyrian - obviously, we shouldn't do anything then, but it would be helpful to point out to the editor that commenting in an AFD using an IP results in minimal weight and the user might consider using an account. 2) This is Eyrian - then he can readily evade by going to a different IP (proxy, resetting a router, going to a different coffee shop, et cetera...). Either way, I don't see much to gain by blocking an IP. So far as I can see, since the case close identified or even suspected any puppets or IP addresses of Eyrian that were still in use at the time suspected, so I don't know what would happen if we tagged as a suspected puppet. Definitely try the user's talk page for a discussion. Consider tagging with {{sockpuppet}} and watching; if the IP editor vanishes then that will be confirmation of a sort, but indicate that an unending game of whack-a-mole is forthcoming. GRBerry 19:22, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
        • I sent an email to Morven who was the checkuser on the Eyrian case just in case if the IPs identified at Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/JohnEMcClure, which were not listed there, were not tagged. Also, I see at top of this page that we should notify the user. Is there a template for this page similar to the ANI notification template that could be placed on the IPs talk page? Best, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 19:47, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
          • Not that I'm aware of. Write a message, with attention to the third paragraph of the "Enforcement" section above. "A discussion about you is underway at [[section link]] might suffice." GRBerry 20:26, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

The IPs are unlikely to be related. They all originate from home internet providers. Two originate from the same provider, but different regions. The other originates from a different provider. Vassyana (talk) 06:54, 13 May 2008 (UTC) I am not a checkuser.

Is it possible for a checkuser to see who the one IP is that claims to have not seen an IPC AfD in a while and yet the IP has no edits to IPC AfDs? Do the checkusers still have the information on Eyrian to see if it's likely or if in fact it is actually a current user possibly using IPs as socks? Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 01:32, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Eusebeus still edit-warring over TV episode articles[edit]

On April 19, Jac16888 initiated an AE thread concerning Eusebeus, saying Eusebeus "has begun blindly restoring redirects." That thread was closed April 23 by GRBerry with no action taken. Since then, Eusebeus has continued to edit war over Scrubs episode articles like My Best Friend's Mistake [54] [55] [56], My Mentor [57] [58] [59], and My Princess [60] [61] [62]. I believe that's a violation of the ArbCom remedy where "The parties are instructed to cease engaging in editorial conflict and to work collaboratively to develop a generally accepted and applicable approach to the articles in question. They are warned that the Committee will look very unfavorably on anyone attempting to further spread or inflame this dispute." and the also the Principle that "Edit-warring, whether by reversion or otherwise, is prohibited" and the Principle that "It is inappropriate to use repetition or volume in order to present opponents with a fait accompli or to exhaust their ability to contest the change. This applies to many editors making a few edits each, as well as a few editors making many edits." As far as I know, no other involved party of E&C2 has been edit-warring with Eusebeus on those articles, and restrictions were not imposed on Eusebeus in particular — so I could understand if no action is taken yet again. However, if that's the case, I think an amendment of the remedies of the E&C2 arbitration case may be in order. Any input would be appreciated. --Pixelface (talk) 05:08, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

You don't think that maintaining the status quo, and neither undoing existing redirects nor creating new ones is the appropriate thing to do? You may well consider that They are warned that the Committee will look very unfavorably on anyone attempting to further spread or inflame this dispute is a sword whose edge may well be directed at you. Kww (talk) 05:19, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Edit-warring is never the right thing to do. Catchpole (talk) 05:28, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
And may be symptomatic of the person's abiity (or lack thereof) to negotiate with others in an ongoing basis. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:33, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
  • Eusebeus and I have since reached something of an agreement over the scrubs articles, at least in the sense that we have both come to the conclusion that an article can stay if it shows some possibility of being more than a plot and music list, as has happened with My Princess, which you neglected to mention does still have an article, with Eusebeus's consent. The two of us have managed to establish a common ground over editing styles. While we both have very different viewpoints, neither of which are likely to change, we've still agreed to work together, the first time I've seen that happen in this "conflict". It would be nice if maybe a few other editors, from both so-called "sides", had a go at this. There's no reason both "sides" can't be more civil in this, if we keep sniping at each other its just going to go on for ever.--Jac16888 (talk) 05:36, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
  • I agree with Jac's comment above and say that, despite our earlier differences, we will be trying (I hope) to chart a way forward with respect to Scrubs. I cannot help but wonder if this is a singularly ill-advised vendetta based on my earlier filing at A/N in which I singled out certain behavioural patterns which, I see, are being repeated. Eusebeus (talk) 05:47, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
True that. I find some folks eminently agreeable once moving away from the festering sore of TV episodes - and Eusebeus has done some much-needed translating work for which I am grateful, as well as some streling copyediting advice on Dirty Dancing. We are in desperate need of more skilled at prose and it would be great to see more efforts in these areas. Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 05:50, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
How does your continued edit-warring over Scrubs episode articles mean I have a "vendetta" against you? Jac16888 says you two have reached something of an agreement, but you've also dragged Alaskan assassin into this. You keep spreading the dispute. On Talk:List of Scrubs episodes, Oren0 supported un-redirecting the articles and Colonel Warden also supported the reversion of the redirects. Is edit-warring how you plan to "chart a way forward"? --Pixelface (talk) 07:24, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
Far more editors spoke in favor of keeping the redirects, and the whole situation has been stable for a week. Are you worried that the problem might go away unless you keep reporting it on noticeboards?Kww (talk) 12:34, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
  • could we maybe pause all this for a few days?, i have exams this week.--Jac16888 (talk) 06:04, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
    Good luck....Cheers, Casliber (talk · contribs) 07:13, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I would like to point out that I really can't see a motive for this report other than enflaming an already unpleasant situation. This report documents events that are

  1. Over a week old
  2. Already settled by discussion between Eusebeus and Jac16888 on their talk page
  3. Already settled by a parallel discussion between me and Alaskan Assassin on my talk page? [63][64]

What's the purpose of bringing it to AE now?Kww (talk) 12:27, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

The parties were told to cease engaging in editorial conflict. That's why I filed the report. And frankly I was unaware of the discussion at User talk:Alaskan assassin or User talk:Kww. Alaskan assassin said "gotcha" and you say it's settled? And correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't these two reverts[65] [66] occur after this was supposedly "settled"? --Pixelface (talk) 13:26, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
"Gotcha" followed by his actions (he ceased undoing redirects) seems to be agreement to me. As for the other two edits, they are a week old, and the undoing of the redirect was by an anonymous IP ... really hard to come to agreements or terms with anonymous editors.Kww (talk) 13:49, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
So "editorial conflict" is okay as long as it's against anonymous IPs? --Pixelface (talk) 14:04, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

I am somewhat concerned about other unconstructive behavior with regards to the editor under question.

Please also consider DGG's comment regarding Eusebeus' incivility and how Eusebeus ignoed DGG's warning and brushed off BrownHairedGirl's later warning on his talk page and even edited her post. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 16:15, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

  • To make the obvious point, none of this is germane to the question at hand, which is my supposed disruptive editing over Scrubs episodes. This is Arbitration Enforcement. As you seem eager, however, to bring up this litany of my abuse at every venue, may I suggest three doors down on the left you will find WP:RFC, which you may find highly suitable to your needs? It is a fairly straightforward matter to launch a user RfC. Eusebeus (talk) 18:43, 14 May 2008 (UTC)
    • It is relevant here, because the arbitrators encouraged editors to work constructively and to not inflame the situation. Many of these instances cited above do not demonstrate efforts to work constructively, but do show evidence of making things worse. I disagree with plenty of editors, but I do not devolve into hyperbole or toss blatant insults at them. I just hope that you could show similar courtesy to those with whom you disagree, but if you are unwilling to do so, then I hope someone else can persuade/convince you. I always hold out the hope that all of us can "get along" somehow or other. The attacks and anger is just not necessary. Sincerely, --Le Grand Roi des CitrouillesTally-ho! 19:46, 14 May 2008 (UTC)

Andranikpasha[edit]


User:Pete K[edit]


What is that highly credible evidence, please? It has not been reported here.DianaW (talk) 00:42, 30 May 2008 (UTC)

MarshallBagramyan[edit]

MarshallBagramyan (talk · contribs) is involved in edit warring in Nagorno-Karabakh related articles, which is the area covered by the arbcom cases Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan and Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2. He fails to cite any reliable sources to support his claims and resorts to edit warring to keep the nationalist Armenian source that he uses as his sole reference in the article. While the rv parole me and other users were placed on a year ago has expired, I voluntarily agreed to stick to it, and the admins recommended other users editing the arbcom ruling covered area do the same. [92] However MarshallBagramyan made 2 rvs on Lachin within the last 2 days, in contrast to what the admins recommend: [93] [94] In a situation when everyone else voluntarily sticks to 1RR, such behavior is nothing but baiting others to violate the parole and disruption, and in my opinion this user should be placed on the same editing restrictions as others. I see no reason why anyone should be able to make more than 1 rv per week in this topic area anyway, some people are clearly gaming the system. Grandmaster (talk) 05:17, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

MarshallBagramyan warned,[95] as per ArbCom remedy. If the user persist after this warning, please post a new request. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 03:31, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Has he been placed on 1RR, or just warned that he would be if he persists? Grandmaster (talk) 05:05, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

TTN and Sonic the Hedgehog characters[edit]

MarshallBagramyan[edit]

MarshallBagramyan (talk · contribs) is involved in edit warring in Nagorno-Karabakh related articles, which is the area covered by the arbcom cases Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan and Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2. He fails to cite any reliable sources to support his claims and resorts to edit warring to keep the nationalist Armenian source that he uses as his sole reference in the article. While the rv parole me and other users were placed on a year ago has expired, I voluntarily agreed to stick to it, and the admins recommended other users editing the arbcom ruling covered area do the same. [99] However MarshallBagramyan made 2 rvs on Lachin within the last 2 days, in contrast to what the admins recommend: [100] [101] In a situation when everyone else voluntarily sticks to 1RR, such behavior is nothing but baiting others to violate the parole and disruption, and in my opinion this user should be placed on the same editing restrictions as others. I see no reason why anyone should be able to make more than 1 rv per week in this topic area anyway, some people are clearly gaming the system. Grandmaster (talk) 05:17, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

MarshallBagramyan warned,[102] as per ArbCom remedy. If the user persist after this warning, please post a new request. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 03:31, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Has he been placed on 1RR, or just warned that he would be if he persists? Grandmaster (talk) 05:05, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

MarshallBagramyan[edit]

MarshallBagramyan (talk · contribs) is involved in edit warring in Nagorno-Karabakh related articles, which is the area covered by the arbcom cases Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan and Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Armenia-Azerbaijan 2. He fails to cite any reliable sources to support his claims and resorts to edit warring to keep the nationalist Armenian source that he uses as his sole reference in the article. While the rv parole me and other users were placed on a year ago has expired, I voluntarily agreed to stick to it, and the admins recommended other users editing the arbcom ruling covered area do the same. [103] However MarshallBagramyan made 2 rvs on Lachin within the last 2 days, in contrast to what the admins recommend: [104] [105] In a situation when everyone else voluntarily sticks to 1RR, such behavior is nothing but baiting others to violate the parole and disruption, and in my opinion this user should be placed on the same editing restrictions as others. I see no reason why anyone should be able to make more than 1 rv per week in this topic area anyway, some people are clearly gaming the system. Grandmaster (talk) 05:17, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

MarshallBagramyan warned,[106] as per ArbCom remedy. If the user persist after this warning, please post a new request. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 03:31, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Has he been placed on 1RR, or just warned that he would be if he persists? Grandmaster (talk) 05:05, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Meowy[edit]

Meowy (talk · contribs) is involved in edit warring together with MarshallBagramyan on the same articles about Lachin (town and district). He was explained many times that in controversial articles like this independent sources are preferable. However he restored to the article a reference to the Armenian nationalistic author Samvel Karapetian yet again, which is 2 rvs within the last 2 days. [107] [108] His persistence on using this particular source is very strange, considering that I provided a much better independent source, which he mentions in his subsequent edit, but does not use for whatever reason. I’m not quite sure what this user is trying to do, but in any case it is an obvious and deliberate violation of 1RR limitation, on which he was placed as per the arbcom case AA2: [109] and which is still in force. Grandmaster (talk) 05:14, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Not for the first time (and - I bet - not for the last time) Grandmaster indulges in some gameplay, trying to exploit Wikipedia for his own ends. I have not been "edit warring". The only person who says that the cited source, a book by Karpetian, is unacceptable is Grandmaster himself - and, beyond broad and unproven slurs like "Armenian nationalistic author" he seems incapable of articulting what his specific objections to the source are. In fact, he agrees that the source is factually correct in its information - the information being the former name of Lachin. The alternative source is not a "better source", it is a foreign-language online source written in Cyrillic. Given that the English-language source - the book by Karapetian - contains exactly the same information, it should be the one used for an English Wikipedia article. Meowy 17:23, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
The source that you are persistently trying to include has a strong conflict of interest in this issue, Karapetyan openly expresses his racist views about Turkic people to a western journalist. Such source cannot be considered neutral or reliable, and you know that. And I'm not the only one objecting to the use of this source, another 3 editors agreed with me. But this board is not about content disputes, you made 2 rvs in the last couple of days, which is a clear violation of your 1RR parole. Grandmaster (talk) 17:30, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
The only racism is from you, you who are dismissing a source, which happens to be a detailed, comprehensive and reliable book (and a book which you have never laid eyes upon), for no other reason than that its author happens to be Armenian. There is no "conflict of interest" - you yourself have admitted that the fact that Ardalar is the former name for Lachin (for which the book is being used as a reference) is a correct fact. And I only made one revert, on 13th May. The revert was to restore the Ardalar information - information that you agree was correct! Meowy 18:55, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
BTW, I am at a loss to understand what Grandmaster's agenda is here. I added the Ardalar information to the entry. He then removed it. Another editor re-inserted it. Grandmaster's pal Atabek erased it again. I restored it. Meanwhile, Grandmaster dismissed the source because of its author, dismissed the old map I cited as another source, demanded I upload a scan of said map (with the implication that I was lying about its contents), then, when I did upload it, he dismissed all maps as sources! And all this is over a trivial fact he himself admits is correct! What is his objection to a reader knowing that the old name of Lachin is Ardalar? Or is his real agenda to engineer situations in which he can manipulate Wikipedia procedures in order to attack editors he disagrees with? Meowy 19:15, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
I only want the article to be properly sourced in accordance with the wiki rules. I do not understand why you have to use this source that causes so many objections from other users, when there are perfectly acceptable ones. And it is not just about this article, you try to insert the same source to every article about this region to support other claims. It appears that the purpose is to get it accepted first by using it to support a claim that is not so controversial, and then expand its use on other claims. If you only want to state that the older name of the region was Ardalar, you don't need that source at all, I found a better one and provided it at talk. Why cannot we stick to neutral sources? However you go as far as violating your parole just to reinsert it once again to the article. I do not understand this persistence and I don't think you are allowed to violate your parole, whatever your motivations are. This is very simple, you violated your parole, when you really did not have to, and you did that on purpose, knowing the consequences. Grandmaster (talk) 20:22, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
Quote: "If you only want to state that the older name of the region was Ardalar, you don't need that source at all" - if that were your true opinion (that the fact was uncontested and thus didn't need a reference), then why did you erase the mention of Ardalar when you erased the mention of the reference, and then ask to see the scan of the map for proof of the former existence of a place called Ardalar? And are you saying you remove information you know is correct just because you don't like the source?
I will continue to use that book, "Armenian Cultural Monuments in the Region of Karabakh", as a source whenever I feel it is needed: it is credible, comprehensive, and unique (there being no other book in English dealing with that subject in such depth). Your sweeping dismissal of everything in a book you have never even set eyes upon says much about your overall attitude here. And, once again, I made only one revert. Meowy 21:34, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
And as further proof, Grandmaster says in the above that he accepts that Ardalar is the old name for Lachin, yet on this [[110]] talk page he says the exact opposite, quote "the city was founded in Soviet times too. How could they have any old names? This is just invention of Armenian propaganda to justify the claims on Azerbaijani lands". It is as I suspected. His objection to a reader knowing that the old name of Lachin is Ardalar is because that trivial but truthful fact disagrees with some lies contained in Azerbaijani propaganda. Meowy 23:39, 16 May 2008 (UTC)
You made 2 rvs, second one by restoring the source that was not considered reliable by other users. And I don't mind mentioning that the old name of the town (at the time a village) was Ardalar, as long as it is properly sourced. I was only asking you to provide a third party source, which I eventually found myself. You persistence on using Armenian sources and rejecting Azerbaijani ones is a violation of wiki rules, which require using third party sources for controversial topics. You were claiming that An "Azeri author" is not capable of reflecting on "historical truth", which is a pretty racist claim. But despite that, I still suggest that we give preference to neutral sources when writing about controversial topics, that will help to increase the reliability of the articles, as there will be less claims that the article is dominated by Armenian or Azerbaijani propaganda. Grandmaster (talk) 17:39, 18 May 2008 (UTC)