- 1 Israel/Palestine articles generally
- 2 Gilabrand
- 3 Supreme Deliciousness
- 4 Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Wikifan12345
- 5 Kehrli
- 6 Rms125a@hotmail.com
- 7 MarshallBagramyan
- 7.1 Request concerning MarshallBagramyan
- 7.2 Discussion concerning MarshallBagramyan
- 7.2.1 Statement by MarshallBagramyan
- 7.2.2 Comments by others about the request concerning MarshallBagramyan
- 7.3 Result concerning MarshallBagramyan
- 8 Cla68
- 8.1 Request concerning Cla68
- 8.2 Discussion concerning Cla68
- 8.2.1 Statement by Cla68
- 8.2.2 Comments by others about the request concerning Cla68
- 220.127.116.11 Comment by ScottyBerg
- 18.104.22.168 Comment by Chester Markel
- 22.214.171.124 Statement by Alanyst
- 126.96.36.199 Statement by EdJohnston
- 188.8.131.52 Statement by Jayen466
- 184.108.40.206 Statement by uninvolved Collect
- 220.127.116.11 Statement by somewhat involved Short Brigade Harvester Boris
- 18.104.22.168 Statement by uninvolved (?) Stephan Schulz
- 22.214.171.124 Statement by uninvolved (eh, kinda) Silver seren
- 126.96.36.199 Comment by uninvolved Ncmvocalist
- 188.8.131.52 Comment by uninvolved Jtrainor
- 184.108.40.206 Question by Becritical
- 8.3 Result concerning Cla68
- 9 Afterlife10
- 10 Owain the 1st
- 11 Communicat
Israel/Palestine articles generally
I have moved this discussion to a subpage, at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement/Arab-Israeli conflict, because the discussion is becoming lengthy—and therefore difficult to navigate. Participation is still welcome on that subpage. AGK [•] 15:35, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
|Blocked indefinitely from editing Wikipedia, for reasons explained in the close. The first year of the block is an AE block. EdJohnston (talk) 04:39, 28 May 2011 (UTC)|
|The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.|
Request concerning Gilabrand
The cited AE threads and imposed sanctions should serve as sufficient warning; See also .
To be determined.
It has been brought to my attention that Gilabrand (talk · contribs) has been editing as , per this diff. A brief review of the IP's contribution history indicates that it has been used extensively, including during two different periods in which she was subject to an arbitration enforcement block:
I'm bringing this here, instead of taking actions myself, in order to obtain more views on the proper action, and allow Gilabrand to respond, if she wishes to. T. Canens (talk) 04:22, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Gilabrand
Statement by Gilabrand
As I informed T. Canens, EdJohnston and AGK, the building I work in operates with a shared global IP. This past week I replied to a question on my talk page but forgot to log in. When I saw the IP number, I replaced it with my signature. I am now being accused of evading a topic ban last year (!!). T. Canens mysteriously received this information from an unknown confidential source. When I say this special contributor account is not mine, and I specifically opened an account over five years ago as advised by Wikipedia so as not to be associated with the global IP, I am mocked, ridiculed, threatened and publicly called a liar. I looked at the contributions of this editor/editors. The list is certainly an interesting mix. I don't think Prostitution in Iran, Lorna Luft, Roxanne Pulitzer, Arundhati Virmani and Madrassas in Pakistan are my specialties exactly...Furthermore, if my English grammar and spelling were anything like the editing summaries left on these pages, I would consider myself in big trouble. Being blocked and banned for months at a time is not fun, but luckily, Wikipedia is not the only thing I do in life. I have plenty to keep me busy, and during my time away I did not edit from a global account (or sneak around trying to find evidence to incriminate others). I edit Wikipedia because I believe I have the skills and sources to improve it. Since my return I have worked hard to do better in the things that I was criticized for in the past, such as incivility and edit warring. I have made an effort to improve relations with editors I may have clashed with. Making Wikipedia a better source of information is my goal, and I would very much like to continue, but it seems like administrators have made up their minds that I am not wanted here. Is there anything I can do to change that? From the tenor of the comments above, it seems not. --Geewhiz (talk) 21:43, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Gilabrand
@the filing admin→When you write "It has been brought to my attention..." can you elaborate here on the circumstances regarding how it was brought to your attention?—Biosketch (talk) 06:50, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning Gilabrand
What to do? The problem here is the history of evasion of blocks, topic and interaction bands, and in particular as Tim Song mentions, the continuing disingenuous response. Gilabrand can be a great editor, but I really don't see any other option given the history. --Slp1 (talk) 19:28, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
OK. Per the unanimous consensus of uninvolved administrators above, I have blocked Gilabrand (talk · contribs) indefinitely for the persistent evasion of arbitration enforcement sanctions and the continued disingenuous response. The first year of this block is made under the authority of WP:ARBPIA#Discretionary sanctions and subject to the usual protections accorded to AE blocks. T. Canens (talk) 20:28, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
|Topic-banned for six months.|
|The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.|
Request concerning Supreme Deliciousness
†Note: not an exhaustive list.
Despite ongoing and earnest efforts to come to an agreement on just how to describe the status of the disputed territories – specifically the Golan Heights and Jerusalem, but now also all of Israel – Supreme Deliciousness (talk · contribs) insists on editing articles in a WP:POVPUSH spirit in total disregard of said efforts. At Talk:Golan Heights, two neutral participants in the discussion, Sean.hoyland (talk · contribs) and George (talk · contribs), have been trying to suggest a formula both sides can agree on – namely not assigning the disputed Golan Heights to either claimant (see  and ) – but Supreme Deliciousness (talk · contribs) is disregarding these centralized endeavors to articulate an NPOV formula and editing based exclusively on what is his personal POV. His conduct is particularly disruptive to Wikipedia because it demands that what little time I – and no doubt other contributors – have to devote to improving articles in general needs to be spent examining his staggering edit history in the I/P topic area to follow up on his contributions. It should also be noted that his only meaningful contributions to Wikipedia are to contentious I/P articles. Virtually none of his edits outside I/P are content-related.
It has been five days since this AE concerning Supreme Deliciousness (talk · contribs) was opened and four days since my last comment on it. Most of what's transpired below in the interim is tangential and not unlike the usual clamoring that is endemic to I/P articles. However, there are two points in particular that do invite further consideration. The first is the matter of User:Supreme Deliciousness' use of sources, and the second is User:Gatoclass' invocation of the WP:BRD method as a defense of Supreme Deliciousness' edits.
This case has gotten old and there is understandable pressure to resolve it. I will briefly recap what I perceive to be most problematic about Supreme Deliciousness' behavior in relation to the diffs provided. The bottom line is that the edits confirm an earlier established pattern of POV pushing. At Golan Heights and at 2011 Nakba Day the user added a POV claim without the qualifying context an NPOV encyclopedia demands. To wit, saying that the Golan Heights are in Syria has been demonstrated to be a controversial position. Presenting it to the reader as reality violates WP:NPOV as it constitutes engaging in a dispute rather than describing it. In addition, at Israel the user inserted a controversial claim into the article for which he did not have a reliable source, namely that the entire State of Israel is a disputed territory. Purpose of Wikipedia enjoins editors against using Wikipedia as a platform for advocacy and furthering outside conflicts. That principle has been flouted repeatedly here and will conceivably continue to be unless the user is sanctioned.—Biosketch (talk) 07:31, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Supreme Deliciousness
Statement by Supreme Deliciousness
I did not violate "purpose of Wikipedia" or "1rr restriction"
Comments by others about the request concerning Supreme Deliciousness
In my opinion, the third diff, which is the only one of the group which relates to a page section that I'm involved in editing, should be discounted. On the WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration/Current Article Issues talk page SD raised the issue of a number of articles which state that West Jerusalem is in Israel, something which is heavily disputed. The position of the international community as evidenced by UN resolutions is that parts of Jerusalem which fall within the area of the corpus separatum defined by UN General Assembly Resolution 303 of 1949, which includes a large part of West Jerusalem, are not the sovereign territory of any country. It would be neutral to state that West Jerusalem has been annexed by Israel or is under Israeli control, but not to state or imply that West Jerusalem is in Israel. When, after discussion, SD said, "This gives us no other choice but to remove this inaccurate claim of where West Jerusalem is located," that was in essence correct. Based on the evidence, any good-faith editor would have to conclude that sovereignty over West Jerusalem is disputed and that the articles, as they existed, did not present a neutral position. ← ZScarpia 23:35, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
The second diff purely involves an addition of text so it's not immediately clear whether it is a revert. In any case, though, the edits of diffs 1 and 2 are contiguous and therefore cannot count as two reverts. ← ZScarpia 00:18, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
Presumably, what is being objected to in the fourth diff is the edit summary, "this entire country is disputed," which acts as justification for adding the Israel article to the Disputed Regions in Asia category. Offensive as it may appear to pro-Israeli editors, as a factual statement, there being Arab groups who object to the existence of Israel as a self-proclaimed Jewish state and, probably, countries who still don't have diplomatic relations with Israel, it's true. ← ZScarpia 01:50, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
However I must admit I do not find this tit for tat AE requests by both sides healthy. It is out of control. I think admins should find some alternative ways of Arbitration enforcement in this area. Ditto for similar contentious areas. One option is to automatically decline all AE requests from (heavily) involved editors. Maybe this is silly, but we need something. - BorisG (talk) 11:59, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
There was no 1RR violation at Golan Heights, so the mention of the 'General 1RR restriction' as one of the sanctions to be enforced ought to be removed. All of SD's edits to Golan Heights on 16 May were consecutive. EdJohnston (talk) 03:37, 19 May 2011 (UTC)
Israel and its land is disputed. Supreme Deliciousness is correct. It is a factual statement. Nothing else could/should be read into it. I think admins should closely consider the advice of Zero, above: "Perhaps someone who wants to file a complaint against an editor who they are in conflict with should have to put it on a separate page which is just a queue of requests. Then an uninvolved administrator can delete it or move it here for discussion if it seems to have prima facie validity. One can only begin to imagine the amount of grief that could be avoided, if this process is typical! Snakeswithfeet (talk) 05:03, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
A number of editors, including me, have indicated that they think that SD's comment, as a factual statement, is true. Should that disqualify us from editing in the IP part of Wikipedia too? ← ZScarpia 22:25, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I feel compelled to comment on this arbitration after following the discussion from Nakba Day Protests 2011 that was featured "In The News" from the main page. The insistence that Israel should labeled as a "disputed territory in Asia" pushes the point of view that Israel is not a sovereign nation. I do not believe this view is supported by consensus. See: Foreign relations of Israel and List of territorial disputes. I also worry that the arbitration process is becoming a theater in the edit war. See: and. Please note that I do not mean to single out the author in question as the sole culprit here, but it is relevant to the discussion at hand. These items, in addition to a previous topic ban, raises concerns in my mind about tendentious editing on the part of this author. Liberal Classic (talk) 22:36, 20 May 2011 (UTC)
Of course the land is disputed, putting aside the 20 or so countries that don't even recognize the country outside the '67 borders, Israeli claims East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights as its sovereign territory. This point is disputed by every country in the world besides Israel. The category is more than appropriate. These frivolous AE requests are getting to be ridiculous. -asad (talk) 15:15, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
I don't really have the time to get into this whole discussion, but I wanted to voice my opinion on something getting much discussion here. Many seem to be misinterpreting the statement "Israel is a disputed territory" with "Israel should not exist". The former is absolutely accurate, while the latter verges on hate-speech. Israel is, indeed, disputed. Who disputes it? About 22 countries in the world. Does that mean that Israel shouldn't exist? No, it just means that it's disputed.
The real question is where to draw the line on inclusion of this category. Places including Taiwan (recognized by only 23 countries) and Kosovo (recognized by 75 countries) include the category, while other places, such as Cyprus (recognized by all but 1 country) and Armenia (also recognized by all but 1 country), do not. Oddly enough, what is probably the closest situation to Israel is the State of Palestine, which is recognized by about 120 countries, and does include a child category of the disputed territory category. Anyways, this isn't really the place for a content discussion, just wanted to weigh in on some of the misplaced outrage in this discussion. ← George talk 01:45, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
My recommendation is to sanction Supreme Deliciousness. Had she thought for a moment that Israel belonged in the same category as the Republic of China or Republic of Kosovo, that of states with limited recognition, she would have put Israel into the category that includes those articles. The fact is, little or no thought went into this categorization.
I also strongly encourage the closing admins to review Jaakobou's comments carefully. Jaakobou all but calls Supreme Deliciousness a Holocaust denier and antisemite. I believe Jaakobou should be sanctioned for his behavior. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 03:19, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
I can't see much that is sanctionable here. SD has not edit warred, there are just two edits on two separate pages and I think they would probably come under WP:BRD. The Israel category is contentious but again, I don't see why BRD should not apply. Users are entitled to do some editing, and occasionally to make errors of judgement, without fear of sanction. I do however agree that the Golan Heights issue could use some more discussion, and I think SD should refrain from making edits on that topic unless or until it becomes clear that consensus is unachievable, in which case, some other course of action will be required. Gatoclass (talk) 13:10, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
In other words, I think the project would be better served if people would stop rushing to high words and gravely offended dignity when they encounter editors who have a very different view of controversial topics. With the greatest possible respect, I'd suggest to my friends on both sides of the divide in Mideast politics that they please try to take themselves just a bit less seriously, and try to exercise greater tolerance for opposing views. Otherwise the drama will just never let up. – OhioStandard (talk) 12:42, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
this diff shows that you are not familiar with the topic area at all. Saying they are not active in the topic area is insane. I actually like a couple of them but do see their !votes falling on what appears to be a preferred side. If you want to close this because you do not see anything wrong then so be it (that is legitimate reasoning even though I completely disagree) but you need to look into the topic area as a whole further if you are going to make statements like that in the future.Cptnono (talk) 06:36, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning Supreme Deliciousness
Arbitration enforcement action appeal by Wikifan12345
|Declined. EdJohnston (talk) 15:12, 28 May 2011 (UTC)|
|The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.|
Procedural notes: The rules governing arbitration enforcement appeals are found in this 2010 ArbCom motion. According to that motion, a "clear, substantial, and active consensus of uninvolved editors" is required to overturn an arbitration enforcement action. |
To help determine any such consensus, involved editors may make brief statements in separate sections but should not edit the section for discussion among uninvolved editors. Editors are normally considered involved if they are in a current dispute with the sanctioning or sanctioned editor, or have taken part in disputes (if any) related to the contested enforcement action. Administrators having taken administrative actions are not normally considered involved for this reason alone (see WP:UNINVOLVED).
Statement by Wikifan12345
The topic ban was imposed on December 2nd 2010. I have served approximately 5 and a half months of my original sentence. Following my ban, I spent more time editing less controversial areas of Wikipedia. I have created several articles and devoted some of my time at Wikipedia:Editor assistance/Requests and providing third opinions at Talk:St. Bernard (dog) and Talk:Airbreathing jet engine.
My original ban involved quite a bit of drama, as can been seen by the lengthy talk discussion at Norman Finkelstein and the AE thread. I really can't defend my edits there. I know I have had a lot of problems dealing with users I disagreed with and accepting the consensus. I obviously have a passion for Israel related topics and my emotional investment has corrupted my judgement and ability to edit in a neutral fashion. But I have contributed positively to many other articles in I/P area, such as Arab-Israeli conflict, Israel-Palestinian conflict and creating the articles Palestinian casualties of war and Israel casualties of war.
I don't think it would be fair to reverse my ban entirely, but considering my relatively conflict-free history and positive contributions to other areas of wikipedia since December perhaps the punishment could be modified? Maybe reduce the topic ban to an article ban at Norman Finkelstein (the original area of dispute) for the remainder of my ban and place my account on probationary status. If there are other articles admins/editors think I should be banned from I'm open to that as well. In the event of future conflicts during my ban if they were to arise, my account would be banned from the Israeli-Arab area permanently. And of course restrictions on reverts if necessary.
I feel I'm ready for this. I would like to polish Israeli casualties of war and Palestinian casualties of war which have been neglected for the most part since my ban. I don't plan on getting into a huge argument about my past history here because I know a lot of editors would be opposed to any modification of my ban. I take full responsibility for my previous actions and behaviors. Also, for clarity it should be noted two AE were filed against me during my topic ban. The first by User:Passionless (a sockpuppet) which was dismissed without prejudice. The other AE was also dismissed according to this rationale: "A technical infringement of the topic ban, but assumed to be a genuine error. Accordingly, this request is closed without prejudice to any future appeal."
Anyways, I appreciate all comments and criticism. I don't want to get into a huge argument, so if editors/admins have questions be specific as you can. I've seen a lot of these appeals bubble into comical trolling and drama.
If this ban is modified, I can promise I won't be spending as much time on Israel/Arab topics as before. But I would like to have the freedom to edit some articles when I'm not busy dealing with issues in real life. :D
@AKG Yes that was the original AE and it was dismissed as noted above. I only provided a brief comment in the AFD and did not contribute to the article at all. I didn't realize the article was under Arab/Israeli review. The admin closing the AE did so without prejudice so it shouldn't be held against me here I think right? Wikifan12345 (talk) 02:22, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
@Ncmvocalist Yes good questions. As I am here to appeal my topic ban and not defend my previous edits, I'll defer to the admins responsibility for implementing the ban:
- User:Timotheus Canens
Full quotations can be found at linked AE thread above.
I have made a strong effort collaborating in less-controversial areas successfully. I have devoted much time to editor assistance boards, provided numerous third opinions, created articles, etc..etc. If you have the time to look at my 3 or 4 year history on Wikipedia, you will see I've spent a lot of serious time collaborating on articles and most of my edits are sound. The issues seem to be unique to talk discussions, which those familiar with I/P can mutate overnight.
The incident at the AE emerged at Norman Finkelstein. I had worked on numerous other conflict-related articles - Hamas, Palestinian Liberation Organization, Economy of Palestine, Israel, List of modern conflicts in the Middle East (created) Arab-Israeli conflict, and of course Palestinian casualties of war and Israeli casualties of war which involved many hours of meticulous study and editing.
Like I said before, I don't intend on editing Norman Finkelstein and prefer to avoid articles that draw a lot of drama. So, perhaps a more narrow ban could be implemented - exclusive to Finkelstein, probationary status, etc. It seems other editors have been granted modified appeals.
As far as I can see, a lot of editors who appeal their bans do so to return to articles they previously engaged in conflict in. I have no such desire but would be open to the freedom to access articles on the general Arab/Israel/Middle East area - which is a very broad and large subject of articles. I have contributed several thousand edits to conflict-related articles, the vast majority of which remain.
I can't tell right now how this appeal will play out from here - uninvolved editors and admins look like they're on the fence. I don't want this appeal to drag out too long. If admins truly think this appeal has no merit, I won't protest a close. Wikifan12345 (talk) 10:46, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Is the appealing process exclusive only to uninvolved admins (with the exception of the administrator for implementing the ban)? You were part of the original arbitration enforcement results discussion. Anyways, I'm not here to defend edits may prior to December 2010. The mentorship you referred to was actually renewed with GimmeDanger but ended later. From what I gather the appealing process is very narrow. I'm not sure if edits made prior to block fit within the parameters. I've never made an appeal before so consider this comments noobish!
AKG statement is fair but like I said the AE was dismissed without prejudice from the closing admin so I'm almost certain it shouldn't be used as evidence here.
I've taken the recommendations from Tim and Phil very seriously and have made a strident effort in adjusting and improving my behavior. I know a lot of editors simply drop off the radar if they're banned from their favorite genre but since December I've spent many hours on assistance boards, third opinions, creating articles, collaborating, etc...
In my biased opinion I can't say another 2.5 months will add much to my editing quality. For clarity, I am requesting a modified appeal, exclusive to Norman Finkelstein and other articles admins may consider problematic. Thank you Wikifan12345 (talk) 20:36, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
@Timotheus Canens Was that AE not closed without prejudice? Is there any sanctioned behavioral issues since December 2010? I encourage observers to look at my edits described above and contributions made over the last five months. In any case, if a modified appeal is not considered appropriate then this should be closed. However, rather than deferring to prior, dismissed AEs - perhaps a more specific reasoning could be provided? It would help me understand what I am doing wrong which will improve my performance after my ban runs up in August. Thanks. Wikifan12345 (talk) 00:59, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
@EdJohnston Like I said before, can you please be more precise in your criticism? The mentorship with Danger was predicated on a volunteer topic ban, not the one imposed by arbitration enforcement. I am not appealing my mentorship with Danger but my original topic ban imposed in December. I find it rather upsetting you would say "I'm not seeing a record of good behavior" when I have demonstrated above several months worth of good behavior. The AE's AKG's cited were closed without prejudice, so they shouldn't be used as cause for denial here correct?
I'm just trying to gauge what specifically I have done wrong during my topic ban that would justify a denial of a modified appeal. And for clarity, aren't uninvolved admins supposed to be commenting here? I thought admins involved in prior disputes as you were aren't supposed to weigh in. I am very ignorant on the process so let me know. Thanks. Wikifan12345 (talk) 23:35, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
@EdJohnston I didn't mean to "repeat" a theory. I was under the impression that involved administrators could not weigh in on the discussion. I asked this several posts above but my question wasn't answered. This appeal process is new to me. Now, you seem focused on my relationship with Danger - do you have anything to comment on my post above? You said you cannot find any evidence of good behavior in the last 5 months. Do you stand by this assessment? Wikifan12345 (talk) 00:17, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
@Danger I'm not appealing a voluntary mentorship but my original arbitration enforcement. I've provided ample evidence above demonstrating several months worth of IMO good behavior. I would like some clarity if Ed stands behind his claims. My mentorship with Gimme should not be used as cause for dismissal here. I spent many days at editors assistance boards and third opinions per her request. A series of innocuous edit led her to rescind our mutual agreement and my griefing can be found here and here. If I am not mistaken, no one has challenged my edits above. Perhaps an uninvolved editor/admin could review my contributions since December of 2010 and provide their view? Wikifan12345 (talk) 01:01, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
@Eluchil404 What evidence of battle-ground mentality have you found? Do you see a case of battleground mentality in the articles I posted above? As I said before, I would be very grateful if admins could take the time and respond to my comments above. Also, on another note - can someone here - uninvolved or otherwise - link me to an example of an editor appealing a topic ban? More specifically, requesting a modified appeal? I've requested Edjohnston' clarify his claim:
Assuming the most extreme interpretation, such an assessment looks very difficult to defend considering the hours I have spent in editor's request board, non-controversial articles, creating unique articles, etc...etc. Deferring to relations with Gimme, a volunteer mentorship - should not be considered in this appeal process. I am not appealing my mentorship with Gimme, and while I stand behind my edits during our mentorship that issue should be taken somewhere else.
A final thought to ponder - are the examples posted above not evidence of "good behavior?" Because if this is the consensus (claimed by EdJohnston, supported by Gimme, etc.) - I would appreciate a more blunt explanation and refutation of my reaction. Wikifan12345 (talk) 09:43, 28 May 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Timotheus Canens
In light of this, and the fact that the original ban was imposed after a discussion and supported by several uninvolved administrators, I don't feel comfortable granting the appeal myself. If consensus is that the ban is no longer serving any purpose, of course, I'll not stand in the way, either. T. Canens (talk) 20:04, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Volunteer Marek
Umm, Ed, or Tim for that matter, can you explain how the diffs provided  are in any way troublesome? They do not seem to be POV or non-neutral or battleground-y (why exactly?) in anyway (one of the diffs is listed twice for some reason), they do not seem to have anything to do with Israel or Palestine, so why is this exactly a problem? Even if they do tip toe onto some "broadly construed" topic ban, how about assuming some good faith here? I mean, that's what us content editors are always exhorted to do so how about you guys do it yourself sometimes. I have no idea who Danger is or what his role is here, nor do I even have a clue on which side of the I/P conflict Wikifan's on but I see no problem here and this appears to be an eminently reasonable request. Particularly since, taking above comments at face value, s/he's shown constructive behavior on other topics.
@Ed  - that seems like a pretty innocuous act, particularly since the restriction was voluntary. Had these edits been disruptive in and of themselves then maybe there'd be something here to worry about. Since they weren't, this doesn't seem like a good reason at all to continue with the restriction.Volunteer Marek (talk) 23:03, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
Statement by (involved editor 1)
I am supporting the appeal. The user has served more than half of the time of his topic ban. Bans are not used as punishment. They used only as prevention of disruption. At this point there is no reason to believe this editor will be disruptive while editing the topic, and if he is he will be topic banned again. Broccolo (talk) 18:55, 21 May 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Danger
I strongly advocate not lifting the ban. In my opinion, Wikifan has never shown any sincere inclination to change his behavior—or any understanding that his behavior is a problem. This is a view formed over a long relationship with Wikifan that includes both on and off-wiki communication, so I probably can't pick out an absolutely damning diff. To me, the fact that Wikifan sought to resume mentorship, agreed to three (heavily negotiated!) conditions, and held to exactly zero of them gives me great doubts. I will not be watching this page, so if any questions are addressed to me, I'd appreciate a notice. --Danger (talk) 23:20, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Discussion among uninvolved editors about the appeal by Wikifan12345
Result of the appeal by Wikifan12345
|Logged warning of the topic ban violation. EdJohnston (talk) 04:16, 28 May 2011 (UTC)|
|The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.|
Request concerning Kehrli
Warning and/or 24 hour block.
Discussion concerning Kehrli
Statement by Kehrli
Comments by others about the request concerning Kehrli
As an aside to Kkmurray, I will note that I moved his notification to Kehrli of this request to its own, new, separate section on Kehrli's talk page, and would encourage him to make this his standard practice for such notifications in the future. While it might seem logical to place such notices in the same talk page section as the notice of the Arbcom case closure, it can sometimes be difficult for a user to see exactly what has been changed on his talk page, or to catch a new one-line notice added to a three-month-old thread. Not all editors are aware that they can check the talk page's history to locate all new comments, nor are they sufficiently diligent to do so—nor should they be expected to be.
At first blush, I was inclined to dismiss this request with a warning to Kehrli. While the diffs provided do include metrology-related content and therefore represent a technical violation of his ban, the edits don't relate even tangentially to the locus of this arbitration case (the use of Kendrick units). Further, the edits are to discussions relating to bots and the Manual of Style, so it might be that Kehrli felt his ban (on edits to articles and related discussion pages) didn't strictly apply.
That said, such an interpretation would be incorrect, and Kehrli should be firmly discouraged from relying on any similar reasoning in the future. Discussions relating to style guidelines or bot activities very much pertain to articles in the context of any "broadly construed" arbitration remedy. That the effect of these discussions is general and to a broad class of articles and article content rather than to specific, individual articles is immaterial.
On further examination, I note that Kehrli has made very few edits to Wikipedia since the closure of the arbitration case imposing this remedy. Looking at his editing history, it would appear that his only edits since the case's closure in March have been to dispute the legitimacy of the ban with an arbitrator, and then to violate the ban with the noted edits a few hours later. This is not a promising pattern of conduct.
Finally, it is worrying that this is not the first arbitration case in which Kehrli was the subject. Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Kehrli closed in 2006, involving a similar dispute: appropriate choices of terminology in measurement. In that case, the ArbCom applied time-limited (now-expired) and more-specific article and notation-changing bans; I presume that this previous case is the reason why the Arbcom chose to impose a broader topic ban this time around. While a reasonable argument might be made that the current case's remedy could have been more narrowly-crafted, one's first edits post-case are not the best place to try to demand that change, nor is it wise to immediately violate the existing ban. Kehrli needs to build a record of uncontentious, constructive editing within the framework of the existing remedies – probably for several months at least – before he tries to lodge any appeal. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 17:51, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning Kehrli
I agree that the two diffs supplied with this complaint show that Kehrli was commenting on talk pages related to metrology. So a warning plus a 24-hour block would be appropriate. The talk exchange at User talk:David Fuchs#My ban and User talk:Kehrli#Your ban suggests that the prospects for any actual negotiation with Kehrli would be slim to none. He does not appear to be listening. There was a previous case at Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Kehrli in 2006 so there is no learning curve here. We should be prepared to use longer blocks if the problem continues. EdJohnston (talk) 20:27, 22 May 2011 (UTC)
This was a clear violation of the restriction, but I don't have a good feel for what an "appropriate length" would be for any block. There doesn't appear to be any ongoing disruption but equally there isn't any evidence that Kehrli has understood the need to change his behaviour. Eluchil404 (talk) 04:51, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
I would say that there's an unambiguous consensus (indeed, unanimous agreement) that Kehrli violated the terms of this topic ban. As Eluchil404 says, our only difficult question is the appropriate response. Since Kehrli edits infrequently, the usual response to a first offence – something in the neighborhood of a 24-hour block – would be of negligible practical effect. Since Kehrli hasn't made any contributions to Wikipedia since the edits at issue in this request were made three days ago, a 24-hour block applied when this request was filed would have had no impact whatsoever on him. I'm reluctant to apply a perfunctory pro forma block just for the purpose of creating a block log entry, and I'm hesitant to punitively apply a much longer block (a week or more, say) just to be 'sure' that he knows he's been blocked. On the other hand, we should strive to avoid giving the impression that topic-banned individuals can freely evade their editing restrictions so long as they edit infrequently. Would it be a reasonable solution to advise Kehrli through his talk page that his edits violated the terms of his ban; that he could have been blocked for them, though he won't be this time as we are giving him the benefit of the doubt; but that future violations will result in much longer blocks (as they would have anyway if he had received a block here). He should also be strongly encouraged to seek the advice of an experienced editor (or file a request for clarification) before making any edits he thinks even might touch on his topic ban. We can add a suitable notation to the log of blocks and restrictions on the case page so that admins involved in future enforcement requests will be aware of the circumstances. Thoughts? TenOfAllTrades(talk) 14:06, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
|Warned of the possibility of Troubles probation. 1RR warning logged in the case. EdJohnston (talk) 21:19, 25 May 2011 (UTC)|
|The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.|
Request concerning Rms125a@hotmail.com
Discussion concerning Rms125a@hotmail.com
Statement by Rms125a@hotmail.com
I did not realize that the article in question was under WP:1RR and thus that making two edits within 24 hours would be a violation of any policy, especially as the latter edit was in response to a claim of original research, to which I responded by providing a valid reflink. I also know that, as they say in the real world, "ignorance of the law is no excuse". I strongly believe this enforcement
Also, I was not "well aware" of the 1RR rule as part of any Arbcom decision, as O Fenian claims, and he cannot speak to what I am aware or unaware of. A cursory examination will confirm that I was not present at that Arbcom hearing in which the 1RR rule was developed as I was banned at the time, although some 40 or so other editors, from both pro-IRA and anti-IRA sides of the edit wars, were present.
It's true that User:Domer48 left me a warning seven months or so ago, on October 31, 2010, in which he referenced the 1RR rule which I unknowingly violated, however he (Domer) did so using his signature (Domer48'fenian'), which is not the same as his username, and which I regard as a pro-IRA username (just as I do O Fenian, about whose username I once lodged a complaint with WP:ANI, but to no avail.) I left Domer a message, politely asking him not to sign any messages on my talk page with this offensive signature, which I believe was a reasonable request. He did not respond but immediately deleted my request from his talkpage; I did likewise with his message on my talk page, without really examining it. , . I understand this was probably foolish on my part, but I have never trusted Domer anyway, and gauged his agenda from the first days he started editing. I also know it is rarely a good idea to volunteer extraneous information, especially given Mr. Johnston's kind comments, but I am doing so in the hopes of showing how my poor relationship with certain other editors have helped land me here, and to provide a backdrop in the event other editors may leave negative comments.
I hope whichever administrator rules here will temper justice with mercy, as, aside from this example of misjudgment on my part, I have been in compliance with my Arbcom unban agreement, which is more than two (2) years old, during which time I have not been blocked even once, for any duration, and have, in fact, received accolades from many of my peers
Comments by others about the request concerning Rms125a@hotmail.com
Result concerning Rms125a@hotmail.com
People have been referring to past agreements, above. I did see two related threads at ANI:
There is a page at User:Eliz81/RMS that could be what people are calling the 'unban agreement.' There was also this recent discussion:
but I don't think it changed anything. If the case of this user was ever considered by Arbcom, somebody should link to that. I suspect he was on Troubles probation at one time (per User:Eliz81/RMS), but that should have expired by the end of 2009.
|No action. EdJohnston (talk) 15:31, 28 May 2011 (UTC)|
|The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.|
Request concerning MarshallBagramyan
I have not studied his whole history, but seems like this user has been under sanctions many times and keeps violating them defying the opposing views and sources. Please review my evidence and take action. Angel670 talk 19:24, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
Discussion concerning MarshallBagramyan
Statement by MarshallBagramyan
Oh dear. I for one would like to apologize to the administrators who will be looking at this seemingly frivolous report which Angel has filed against me. Nowhere in my statements do I say that Azerbaijani scholars cannot be used on account of their ethnic identity. Rather, and I'm glad that Angel has posted the full quotes more or less, my objections stem from the belief that scholars who operate in an environment, where they are practically dictated to say and write what their governments tell them, cannot be considered neutral or even reliable. This applies to the above-mentioned individual, who was a modern historian living in the former Soviet Union and later independent Azerbaijan. Most scholars are in agreement that the Soviet Union jealously guarded the study of modern history and did not allow its own historians to stray away from the Marxist-Leninist dogma, and I was merely echoing their statements (see, e.g., Robert Service, A history of modern Russia from Nicholas II to Vladimir Putin, Cambridge, MA, 2003, p. 419). As for Azerbaijan, all one has to do is visit the Wikipedia page on Human rights in Azerbaijan and see who the latest blogger was who was arrested and sentenced to jail for criticizing the Azerbaijani government. Can one reasonably expect to see scholars dissenting from national narratives when even a blogger can be arrested and sentenced to long jail time on such flimsy pretexts?
Furthermore, Western scholars have cautioned historians and lay students alike to avoid making use of publications in Azerbaijan for some very good reasons. To quote the eminent Prof. Robert Hewsen:
So I am essentially paraphrasing what the authorities themselves have told us to do. The individual in question has authored numerous works but the one that caught my eye was Armenian Falsifications, which hardly has a neutral tone to it. I have noted and duly adhered to Sandstein's friendly advice and as my statements make clear, never have I objected to making use of a source on the basis of his ethnic identity but have taken much more important factors into account, such as the scholarly environment and atmosphere that I are working in. Oddly enough, Angel did not make such a distinction and she dismissed a source (quoted just below by Ashot Arzumanyan) on the same talk page because he was Armenian. She shows that I clearly and carefully qualified my statements and I can only surmise that this complaint was regrettably done out of ill-faith. --Marshal Bagramyan (talk) 20:19, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning MarshallBagramyan
Comment by Ashot Arzumanyan
I would like to draw admins' attention to this edit, where the editor who filed this request particularly says "Author Hovann Simonian does not count at all as he is an Armenian." Conclusions are up to you. -- Ashot (talk) 19:47, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
The more Angel670 adds comments here, the more I am disappointed with his/her manner of participation in Wikipedia. Bringing around facts from the past then connecting them with unrelated facts from the recent and all this for the sake of what? As more and more uninvolved editors comment here, recent edits of Marshal are simply unrelated with previous warnings. Finally, Marshal had enough reasons to express caution about the so called "neutral journalist" whose manner of writing is well cautioned by many sources, among them Hovann Simonian (oh yes, whose article in Central Asian Survey (Jun2000, Vol. 19 Issue 2, p297-303) "does not count at all as he is an Armenian.") -- Ashot (talk) 04:50, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Comment by Neftchi
Marshall has made this kind of derogatory replies against Azerbaijani authors and scholars in the past. Thats why he was put in an indefinite parole in the first place. He is fully aware of the consequences of his repetitive actions and yet he does the same thing and then feels convenient to just come and post that is he is “misunderstood” to justify his actions against the indefinite restrictions. In his previous report he made the exact same statement as he just did here. He was find guilty on similar edits as today, which are presented by Angel. Here below are edits by Marshal from his previous report, I bring this up for the admins to for comparison.
This goes to show Marshall's behavior remains unconstructive. He deliberately attempts to diminish the reputation of well respected scholars on bases of their ethnic background. Which is offensive to say the least but is also against Wikipedia regulations. Neftchi (talk) 22:15, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
Comment by Vidovler
There are no comparaison here. It's clear MarshallBaguarmian is refering to the author Kocharli, and the author is indead the last on Earth to be considered credible. His book titled Armenian Deception by its title is self explainatory. On page 2, we read: The book is presented with additions and changes in English. The first edition was published by the Instityte of Socio-Political Stadies and Information, National Academy of Sciences of Azerbaijan in 2001 in Azerbaijani. The National Academy of Sciences of Azerbaijan is the mouthpiece of the government, which has published several books in which primary sources were washed out from the word Armenia. Kocharli is not an acceptable source and the justifications provided by Mr. Baguarmian go beyond the mere ethnic backround of the authors. Vidovler (talk) 22:52, 24 May 2011 (UTC)
Comment by BorisG
My uninvolved view is that MB has NOT criticised sources based on ethnicity, but rather sources published by authors under severe government censorship. His approach here is proper and correct. This request should be dismissed. - BorisG (talk) 18:04, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
Comment by Khodabandeh and possible solution to AA issues
First a quick comment Wikipedia is not a battleground. I have not looked at the report, but if the comments are correct, and if MB removed a book by the name "Armenian Deception", then he is following policy just like if someone removed the book by the title "Azerbaijani deception" would also be correct. The title itself suggests the book is not wikipedia material. "Muslim deception" "Turkish deception", "Iranian deception", "Armenian deception", "Azeri deception", "Martian deception", etc... whoever is pushing to put such titles in Wikipedia should be sanction automatically (in my opinion). Even if an Armenian author writes "Armenian deception" that is not acceptable book for wikipedia. Any author that writes such a title is not reliable for Wikipedia, period.
More importantly, Recently I have been looking at the Russian wikipedia more (with google translator) due to some AA enforcements there. I noticed that the admins there are much more active and have a 3-4 person working group (who relatively know history in some detail) and who resolve some of these issues. The final decision they make usually becomes the standard there for Wikipedia. Those admins do not discriminate by ethnicity but by scholarship. They know the history of the region well. So for example R. Hewsen, or Touraj Atabaki (an Azerbaijani Iranian) are all acceptable sources, because these are academicians from Western universities recognized by the general scholarly community and well reviewed, and contribute to scholarly texts (Encyclopaedia of Islam, Iranica, etc.). At the same time, the Tofiq Kocharli's book by the title "Armenian Deception" is totally unacceptable for Wikipedia, not because of his background but because of its content. My suggestion is that it seems once in a while (or quite often) some sort of regional AA (many) or Azerbaijan-Iran (few) or Iran-Turkey (very few) or Armenia-Turkey (some more) or Greek-Turkey (sometimes) or Balkan issues comeup. There needs to be 3-4 very active admins familar with the areas history, and not from the area who resolve these issues. Else these problems linger on forever. I suggest at least two users Folantin and Kansas_Bear who seem to know history and are not from the area. Either way, the Russian Wikipedia has become much more calm due to such a mechanism. Actually at least four pages of AA issues (that comeup often in English wikipedia) have already been resolved there by admins . Until there is such mechanism, Wikipedia will suffer. Perhaps for now, admins here can ask help from Russian admins on these issues. I have been in Wikipedia now for 5-6 years and this issue will not go away until there is an effective mechanism such as the Russian Wikipedia. The basic problem boils down to nationalistic type education systems in some countries which is ingrained from an early age. Wikipedia cannot stop million of users who have been educated in nationalistic doctrines by AA reports (some fraudalent), and it needs active mechanism like the Russian wikipedia to solve this issue. Thanks. --Khodabandeh14 (talk) 19:36, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
Comment by completely uninvolved Volunteer Marek
Yawn. None of these statements by MB come even close to being objectionable or sanctionable. They are a standard part of how people discuss difficult issues. And what BorisG said. And what Khodabandeh said.
Result concerning MarshallBagramyan
|No action taken. Skomorokh 15:41, 29 May 2011 (UTC)|
|The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.|
Attention: This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
Request concerning Cla68
3.1) Editors topic-banned by the Committee under this remedy are prohibited from (i) editing articles about Climate Change broadly construed and their talk pages; (ii) editing biographies of living people associated with Climate Change broadly construed and their talk pages; (iii) participating in any process broadly construed on Wikipedia particularly affecting these articles; and (iv) initiating or participating in any discussion substantially relating to these articles anywhere on Wikipedia, even if the discussion also involves another issue or issues.
The LaRouche movement is a leading source of climate change denial publications. I request that Cla68 comply with the ArbCom's topic ban on "articles about Climate Change broadly construed and their talk pages" and "biographies of living people associated with Climate Change broadly construed and their talk pages".
@Alanyst: I was aware of the CC case, but didn't read it carefully or pay it much attention. The list at WPT:ACTIVIST was compiled from a search of cases involving the principle of advocacy. I only recently realized how prominent the LaRouche movement is in the climate field. I don't think the ArbCom put a time limit on enforcement of this topic ban - there's no provision for a statute of limitations if a violation is not reported in time. Again, I'm not asking for any blocks or penalties for Cla68, just that he follow the topic ban by not editing articles or talk pages related to climate change. Will Beback talk 05:33, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
@EdJohnston: The reason there is little material on climate change in the LaRouche bio is that almost all of his views and advocacy have been moved from that article to a daughter article. See Views of Lyndon LaRouche and the LaRouche movement# Environment and energy for coverage of that topic. Cla68 has been active on that talk page and is proposing removing unspecified sourced material from the article, which is what prompted this filing. Will Beback talk 06:12, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
@Ncmvocalist: Cla68 and several other editors are covered by a very wide topic ban. Some of the LaRouche-related articles appear to fall within the topic ban's scope because LaRouche and his movement are prominent climate change denialists, and it is central to their political platform. Cla68 should honor that topic ban. (The reason why Cla68 was banned from climate change articles is that he brought a battlefield mentality to the topic, and he's been acting the same way on the LaRouche articles.) An appropriate outcome of this enforcement request would be a formal warning. Will Beback talk 04:39, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Cla68
Statement by Cla68
Some background: I filed a request for arbitration  concerning Will Beback about one month ago because of concerns I had about his behavior related to the LaRouche articles. The request was declined by the Committee, at least one of whom suggested that other steps in the dispute resolution process be attempted first. I accepted the advice, which Will openly took exception to.
About two weeks later, Will posted a warning on my talk page about engaging in CC-related discussions in the LaRouche article. About the same time, Will started a content-related thread on one of the LaRouche articles which apparently was related to the CC topic. I did not participate in that discussion. About two weeks later, I was engaged in a content discussion at LaRouche movement about the article's lede, which does not mention anything about global warming. During the discussion, Will brought up climate change even though that topic had nothing to do with the current discussion. At the time, Will was revert warring on the article's page (although I have participated in talk page discussion, I have never actually edited that article).
Soon after, Will asked Stephan Schulz for an opinion on it, which was answered by him and another editor. One those editors apparently saw fit to investigate further what was going on, and found things not to be in order in the LaRouche articles  , which, as you can see in those discussions, Will took exception to. He followed up by submitting this request. If any responding admins have any further questions about what has been going on in the LaRouche articles over the past several years and why Will might be so interested in the content of said articles, please say so and I'll be happy to explain. Cla68 (talk) 01:23, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Comments by others about the request concerning Cla68
Comment by ScottyBerg
Will, I've seen this percolate through two user pages that have the misfortune to be on my watchlist, so I thought I'd be first out of the starting gate here. Am I missing something? These edits don't involve climate change. ScottyBerg (talk) 01:01, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
@Will: Yes, I am familiar with the penalties imposed in the arbitration, which is why I am commenting here. I opined frequently in the CC case, and I think it's fair to say that I was not an ally of Cla68, to put it mildly. I agree that his topic ban needs to be strictly enforced. However, if he's just generally editing the LaR articles I'm just not seeing a problem, especially since this seems to be a longterm interest and not an effort to circumvent the sanctions. ScottyBerg (talk) 02:12, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Comment by Chester Markel
Most political parties in the United States, and quite a few politicians, assert some views on climate change. Is the scope of the topic ban really to be interpreted such that once an article contains a single sentence about the subject, the entire article, even insofar as unrelated to climate change, is off-limits? I doubt that, when passing the topic ban, arbitrators intended to ban Cla68 from articles such as Democratic Party (United States) and Republican Party (United States). I would construe the ban as only applying to climate change subject matter, in any article, or an article primarily related to climate change. Chester Markel (talk) 01:51, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Alanyst
The Climate Change case closed in mid-October 2010. Cla68 and Will Beback have been engaged in debate in the LaRouche topic area since at least September 2010, according to their contrib histories. Will Beback must have known about the climate change case and its outcome, since it was referred to in the discussions surrounding the WP:Activist essay that both Will and Cla68 participated in, and Will himself included the CC case in a list of advocacy-related arbitration cases to the essay just days after that case closed (see ).
If the LaRouche-CC connection were strong enough to invoke the CC topic ban for Cla68's involvement in the LaRouche talk pages, then why is it only being invoked now, after half a year's worth of back-and-forth between these two antagonists in multiple venues? Either the connection was too tenuous to notice before now, which defeats Will Beback's argument that Cla68 is somehow violating the CC topic ban, or else Will Beback considered it a topic ban violation early on and didn't mention it to anyone (not even Cla68 one-on-one) for some reason during all those months of debate, until now. If the latter, this complaint appears to be more of a tactical maneuver, a pretext for eliminating a thorn in his side, than an honest concern; and such cynical misuse of community procedures ought to be repudiated strongly. alanyst 05:11, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Statement by EdJohnston
I'm not seeing enough of a connection here to keep Cla68 from editing the article on LaRouche, if ARBCC is the criterion. Even 'broadly construed' is not enough to put that article off limits. Naturally if there were any climate material in Lyndon LaRouche, and apparently there isn't, Cla68 would have to stay well away from it. Also in any talk page edits he should make at Talk:Lyndon LaRouche Cla68 cannot mention climate. EdJohnston (talk) 06:07, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Statement by Jayen466
Statement by uninvolved Collect
The article involved did not have "climate change" connotations until it was recently added by the complainant here.  It is unreasonable to allow an editor to ex post facto bar an editor from an article by the expedient of simply adding "barred material" to the article. This is, in short, a form of gaming the system to attack other editors.
I doubt there is any article on anyone which could not have the type of edits added by Will to this article - and which I consider to be "three degrees of separation" from LaRouche in the first place - dealing with articles by people not associated directly in any way with LaRouche.
I suggest, in fact, that the only one behaving badly here is Will, who has shown strong ownership issues with all LaRouche articles (over four thousand edits considering only the articles with "LaRouche" in their name).
There must be a limit set on deliberately making articles suddenly subject to a topic ban on another editor by simply adding material which might be covered. I suggest that limit be set here. Cheers. Collect (talk) 13:58, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Note: In the "guess who did it category" -- the category "Environmental scepticism" has been added to the article, making it impossible to assert that the entire article is not covered by the CC rulings. If this category is maintained, then CLA is clearly barred from any comments or actions whatsoever regarding the article or any of the LaRouche articles entirely, or even discussing them on ANI or any other such pages, or any user pages. Anyone for a hand of poker? Collect (talk) 20:53, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Statement by somewhat involved Short Brigade Harvester BorisWhile I am not exactly a member of Cla68's fan club in this case I cannot see where he has done anything wrong. The LaRouche organization does promote climate change denialism but this is only one of a wide range of "interesting" views that they hold. As long as Cla68 stays well away from any climate-related material in the LaRouche articles I don't see where he runs afoul of ARBCC.
On another note Collect's assumption of bad faith is disturbing. Furthermore, his suggestion to avoid adding climate-related material to articles where it did not previously exist is a non-starter for reasons that should be obvious. Short Brigade Harvester Boris (talk) 14:58, 26 May 2011 (UTC)
Statement by uninvolved (?) Stephan Schulz
I have no significant presence at the LaRouche articles, but some preliminary discussion has happened at my talk page, which Cla68 has already referenced in his statement. I hope I have made my position clear there. However, I'd like to point out a few things here as well.
Statement by uninvolved (eh, kinda) Silver seren
And this is exactly why I left the Larouche area. This is exactly why. Forgive me for being blunt, but WP:AGF can only be stretched so far and I don't believe it should be used as a veil to obscure the obvious. Prior to ten days ago and in months of discussion before that, the Larouche subject area didn't really have anything about climate change in it and thus nothing was mentioned to Cla in regards to it. Yes, it is known that Larouche is related to climate change, but so long as a user under the restriction isn't editing information about climate change or adding it in, it shouldn't matter. Indeed, Will added the info about climate change into the Views article ten days ago as noted above and then started a discussion or two, waiting for Cla to respond in a manner that could even remotely be construed to be against the climate change restriction and then he started this discussion. I think the facts of what happened and what exactly is going on are plain to see and should be clearly stated. SilverserenC 04:06, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
@Jtrainor: The issue with an interaction ban is how do you work with them both editing the Larouche subject area? You can't exactly kick just one out and not be partisan about it. And it's close to impossible to properly honor an interaction ban within that subject area. SilverserenC 06:45, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Comment by uninvolved Ncmvocalist
Comment by uninvolved Jtrainor
User adds material to an article to try to make it fall under an arbcom remedy, user runs to Arbcom to complain that someone he hates is violating that remedy. I suggest applying a reversal of fortune to Will-- smack HIM with some sanctions instead. Considering why this thread is here, an interaction ban from Cla68, broadly construed, would seem to be a logical choice. Jtrainor (talk) 06:41, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Question by Becritical
"If the latter, this complaint appears to be more of a tactical maneuver, a pretext for eliminating a thorn in his side, than an honest concern; and such cynical misuse of community procedures ought to be repudiated strongly." --alanyst
"Again, if anyone is wondering why Will might not want me to participate in any discussions concerning any content anywhere in the LaRouche topic, and why he might be so concerned about the content of those articles, I'll be happy to explain." --Cla68
I would like the explanation. BE——Critical__Talk 15:02, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning Cla68
|The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.|
Request concerning Afterlife10
To be determined.
Discussion concerning Afterlife10
Statement by Afterlife10
Comments by others about the request concerning Afterlife10
Result concerning Afterlife10
Owain the 1st
|Editor placed on notice and counselled. Advice issued to I/P editors about participating in AE requests. No other action taken.|
|The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.|
Request concerning Owain the 1st
"Prior to any sanctions being imposed, the editor in question shall be given a warning with a link to this decision; and, 'where appropriate, should be counseled on specific steps that he or she can take to improve his or her editing in accordance with relevant policies and guidelines."'
I think the editor will eventually get himself banned and will be honest and say one here would be great. But it would not be fair (I was given a talking to and a probationary period when I called someone a liar). All I am asking for is for an admin to lay it out to him clearly. "You cannot comment on editors and not their contributions on the article's talk page" and "You cannot assert that other editors are liars."
The only sticking point is that I would like to see the personal attacks stricken. I do not care if he does it, an admin does it, or if I do it.
I also tried everything but coming here. I made multiple requests for the editor to strike the comments. I struck them myself at one point. I also took this to WP:WQA but two non admins said it was OK. Maybe they did not know the additional expectations on editors in the topic area. But if Owain the 1st} thinks it is OK to assert that others are liars and make other snarkey comments then it will grow into a larger problem. So how about we fix it now? You want to make AE and the P-I topic area better: Let a less frequent editor know what is and what is not permitted. This is cake. Not even a ban is needed here.
(but let me know if I can say others are posting lies are sya that they cannot read English. That will go over swimmingly in the topic area and I would enjoy it even though i hate to admit it.
Discussion concerning Owain the 1st
Statement by Owain the 1st
Comments by others about the request concerning Owain the 1st
I went through the material when it was brought up at as a Wikiquette issue. If you look at the context of the statement then there is nothing to it. Bringing it here feels like an attempt to intimidate an opponent over a content issue. --Snowded TALK 09:13, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
@Cptnono: I think the editor will eventually get himself banned and will be honest and say one here would be great.. Now I am having some trouble with English. Can you please explain what this is supposed to mean? Thanks. - BorisG (talk) 15:47, 2 June 2011 (UTC)
Comment - @NMMNG, you used to be a lot more confrontational than you are nowadays. Perhaps you can offer some practical advice to Owain based on your experience in the topic area. Less conflict is always good here. @Cptnono, if you really cared about "Decorum" surely you would have filed a report against yourself several times by now, no ? It's a pity people never file reports against themselves, "I'm a serial sockpuppeteer and I really need help to stop", "I feel compelled to advocate on behalf of <pick a side> despite what the sanctions say, can anyone help me be a better editor ?" etc. @BorisG, I assume the sentence means "I think the editor will eventually get himself banned and I will be honest and say that a ban here would be great." I don't think Owain has done anything to justify a ban, a topic ban or any kind of sanction. In fact, I would encourage him to be less confrontational, ignore arguments about content that aren't based on policy and just carry on trying to edit according to policy and the sanctions. The Gaza War article needs new editors. Most have walked away. Sean.hoyland - talk 16:42, 2 June 2011 (UTC) @Cptnono, of course I read your entire comment but I only responded to BorisG's specific question. I appreciate that one sentence is only one sentence and does not reflect the entirety of your comment. Sean.hoyland - talk 06:05, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
My advice to the Admins in this case would be to take into consideration that however this AE is closed, it will likely serve as a precedent regarding future interactions between users in the I/P domain. If no action is taken, expect that contributors will regularly accuse each other of posting lies. If we would prefer to avoid that kind of discourse, then at least a warning or a counseling would benefit us all. I don't know how bad things used to be here, but my impression is that the shit has hit the fan this week. And from this point it can go in one of two ways. Either Admins continue to deal sternly with disruptive contributors, in which case people will finally start thinking twice about how they edit and how they talk to other editors. Or Admins can go back to the way things were before, dismissing cases that aren't 100% textbook infractions, in which case I anticipate that things will only get worse and the atmosphere will become even more hostile and unpleasant than it already is. Specifically regarding Owain, I tend to agree with the filer that it's only a matter of time until he gets himself banned. It's unfortunate that that's the case, because when he wants to, he can be an asset to the Project. But as someone who's crossed paths with him before and been on the receiving end of his acrimonious comments (e.g. ), I can testify that he does seem to have a predisposition toward responding aggressively to editors he doesn't agree with. If he won't acknowledge that he needs to tame his rhetoric, then I hope a formal warning or counseling from higher up will encourage him to.—Biosketch (talk) 07:58, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
Result concerning Owain the 1st
|Blocked for one week. T. Canens (talk) 17:08, 6 June 2011 (UTC)|
|The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.|
Request concerning Communicat
Communicat has recently returned to editing using an IP address. To date, his only edits have been to launch personal attacks on the other editors who were involved in this arbitration case and continue the dispute:
Note that Communicat has a history of using IP accounts to talk about himself in the third person and carry on disputes for which he has been blocked (for instance, here - that this was Communicat is confirmed by this edit from the same IP account. That account (220.127.116.11 (talk · contribs)) has a similar IP address and geolocates to the same area of South Africa as 18.104.22.168, providing further evidence that this is Communicat.
The above posts are a clear violation of both sanctions which were imposed on Communicat (to not edit or comment on articles concerning World War II and its aftermath and to not make personal attacks on other editors) and I ask that the IP account and Communicat's account be blocked per Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/World War II#Enforcement Nick-D (talk) 23:41, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
Discussion concerning Communicat
Statement by Communicat
Comments by others about the request concerning Communicat
Result concerning Communicat