Wikipedia:Teahouse/Questions/Archive 932

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Additional references needed

I do not know if this is the correct place to voice this complaint. If not then please direct me to the proper destination.

My complaint is that some editors, jump into old articles which has a shortage of citations (and they are legion, so many that if all such were deleted then WP would be a skeleton.

What these eager beavers do is drop in and leave a citation about more references or citations needed such as this Template:Refimprove section.

I ask why bother, such a template might be called for on an article being submitted for review. but we are talking about articles that could be 9 or 10 years older or date back to the inception of WP.

For an old article, one in which the oirginal author(s)might have long gone on to other things,what does the editor who drops such a template expect? Better yet, since no one owns an article instead of dropping a template, show some initiative and do some research and provide the citation needed. I am not discussing articles submitted for review, but articles that have a long history on main space.Oldperson (talk) 21:26, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

If an article needs more sourcing the age of it does not make a difference. This template is not a badge of shame - in fact it encourages other editors to come and improve the referencing. Anyone - including you - can do some research and improve the article but, as we are all volunteers, no one is required to do so. MarnetteD|Talk 21:45, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
Some editors have articles on their Watch list, but don't visit otherwise. Even an edit as simple as a 'Citation needed' will bring the article to their attention (IF they are regular checkers of their watch list). David notMD (talk) 22:21, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
@Oldperson: Not wanting to 'pile on', but I do feel that adding 'ref improve' or 'unreferenced sections' to old articles I encounter can be very helpful, as suggested above. I might not have the skills, knowledge and especially desire to spend time on improving the myriad of articles I encounter on my travels here. But if I see a weakness in one, it seems right to me to flag it up, rather than to simply walk away and do nothing except 'tut-tutting' that it's old and that nobody cares. I would certainly want to act to improve a page if I saw any sort of 'citation needed' note added to any of the articles I created or that I monitor. With c.5.8 million articles here, no editor can get involved in every one of them, and I personally think that anything that highlights weaknesses in articles is incredibly useful. What I then expect, or hope, is that someone with a subject interest in that area who sees such an obvious template will be sufficiently motivated to do something about it. So in a way, the bigger the notice, the better. What I dislike are the sub-set of editors here who, on seeing an old, badly referenced article, think the only thing to be done with it is to propose it for deletion. That solves nothing, and only serves to weaken or undermine the foundations of Wikipedia's broad encyclopaedic content. In a way, I feel you have answered your own question; the alternatives are 'do nothing', 'delete everything', spend ten lifetimes improving articles I'm not interested in, or flagging uncited content for more interested editors to address. There are more of them than me. So, no contest. Nick Moyes (talk) 23:43, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
What Nick said. and sometimes deletion is the way to go, after a WP:BEFORE. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 08:51, 30 March 2019 (UTC)


Hello in the 2018-19 South-West Indian Ocean cyclone season is the JTWC notices in 1 min or 10 min sustained winds. (talk) 21:17, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

Hello can you please answer my question. Thanks (talk) 07:55, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
JTWC uses 1-minute sustained winds. @ But you are incorrect that they or MeteoFrance has recognized a new disturbance in that basin.--Jasper Deng (talk) 09:20, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
oh sorry Jasper Deng must have misread info from a previous storm. (talk) 09:29, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Can you help me

People keep changing my edits for no reason and they are reliable please tell them to stop. (talk) 09:33, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

"Reliable" – sorry but your edits are of the near-complete opposite. You have provided zero reliable sources for your claims and ignoring the viewpoints of others.--Jasper Deng (talk) 09:35, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
I am ignoring because I don't understand for the 5 time. (talk) 09:39, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Then the right thing to do (which you finally seem to have done) is to contact them asking for clarification. Not understanding someone's viewpoint is not an excuse to ignore them, in the same way that ignorantia juris non excusat.--Jasper Deng (talk) 09:41, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for yout]r help. (talk) 09:43, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

How to change the photo of a person

how can i change the profile photo of a person — Preceding unsigned comment added by Umert7 (talkcontribs) 06:48, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

You need to upload an appropriately licensed photo to Commons: first (under a new name) and then edit the article and change the photo to new one. Please, see Help:Files for details. Ruslik_Zero 09:59, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

i’m clueless

how do i begin a new page on something? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Twinkletoes23575 (talkcontribs) 10:05, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Hello! See Wikipedia:Your first article. Consider learning about editing by editing existing articles first. Make sure that the topic you decide to create an article about is WP:NOTABLE, otherwise it will be deleted. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 10:50, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Can I cite A YouTube Channel?

Hello everybody.

I just joined yesterday and I was wondering about the citation policies. Out of curiosity, can I cite a YouTube channel if it’s a credible and proven source? — Preceding unsigned comment added by BillyTheHorse23 (talkcontribs) 14:28, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Most YouTube channels are self-published. Channels operated by sources such as CNN or the BBC would be OK to cite. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 14:32, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Creating a page

How to create a page on Wikipedia — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aabbbii (talkcontribs) 13:51, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Hello, Aabbbii. You didn't start a new section for your question, so I have added a header. Writing an acceptable article on Wikipedia is much harder than most people realise, and I don't advise trying it until you've got a few hundred edits you've made to improve existing articles. But in any case, you should start by reading your first article. One further thing I'll mention is to consider why you want to write an article (which is a better way of thinking about it than "creating a page")? If you want to help us improve Wikipedia, and you've spotted a notable topic that hasn't yet been covered, great. But if you are really here to tell the world about yourself/your professor/your boss/your company/your band/your charity/your invention, then please read what Wikipedia is not, and realise that you are likely to have a frustrating time. --ColinFine (talk) 15:51, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Jordan Peele

Just got off his Wikipedia page. Someone needs to fix the obvious problems with it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:03, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for pointing out this vandalism: I see another IP user has corrected some of it, and you have fixed the rest. The vandal has already been warned in respect of another article he vandalised. --ColinFine (talk) 15:56, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

dealing with a series of IP edits (one user?)

I am not sure how to proceed, and would like to ask for a recommended course of action. The concern is the recent IP edits of the Dido Elizabeth Belle page. As you can see from history, three IP editors have the same agenda (outing and deleting a particular source). I hesitate to start a dialog with a IP editor (i.e. placing warning templates), since the likelihood of a vandal seems high (do note the hate speech in the first bout of edits) and I can't be sure it really is one and the same person. Really I would prefer to hand this off to an admin or similar, but can't seem to find a good fit for a noticeboard. Each IP user hasn't done "enough", and seems careful to only use valid expressions (and so I can't rule out good faith). I sure don't want to play a game of whack-a-mole here, and feel it is not my place to keep reverting this stuff. Thanks CapnZapp (talk) 11:17, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

I know nothing about the topic. I reverted to a pre-debate version and suggested that consensus be first reached at Talk of the article. Suggest ignoring that the IP address changed from the first cluster to the later, inclusive reverts, and focus on content instead. David notMD (talk) 16:07, 30 March 2019 (UTC)


Can you help me with what Jasper Deng was saying to me on his talk page because he stopped me because I wasn't writing in proper English when I can t. (talk) 12:42, 30 March 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk)

Writing "you bitch" on Jasper's Talk page justifies the temporary block. I suggest that when it expires you find other articles to edit. And be civil in disputes. David notMD (talk) 16:19, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

How to re-submit a rejected article

Hi, Recently one of my article is rejected because of the reason, "lacks significant coverage in multiple independent reliable secondary sources. The individual's website is a primary source"

I added all the external resources that is supporting this article content. But I don't have an option to re-submit. Could anyone help me to re-submit this article? The article link:

Thanks in advance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeyabalajitm (talkcontribs) 07:45, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

When you find "multiple independent reliable secondary sources" then you can resubmit. Ruslik_Zero 09:54, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
The question was not "When?", it was "How to resubmit?" David notMD (talk) 15:49, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
@David notMD, @Jeyabalajitm if you have enough sources, and you think its enough then copy the following code when viewing this page and paste it anywhere (but most people place it at the bottom) in your draft: {{subst:submit}}. And please don't use Bare URLs, as they are most likely end up being link rot earlier or later.Victor Schmidt (talk) 16:22, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks Victor. I have re-submitted my article. Waiting for approval. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeyabalajitm (talkcontribs) 16:34, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

References & ext links

Hello, I’ve just done a massive cleanup on Leah McFall, and for some reason, the references and external links seem to be stuck in the Concert tours section. Does anyone know how to fix it? – DarkGlow (talk) 14:13, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

DarkGlow, It appears fine for me, are you sure you aren't looking at an older version? WelpThatWorked (talk) 16:08, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Yep, I was just about to say exactly the same thing. I've looked at all of DarkGlow's revisions and there were no references included in the Concert Tours section, so I'm also struggling to understand what the original concerns were. Nick Moyes (talk) 16:12, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

@Nick Moyes: @WelpThatWorked: This is very confusing. When I’m on my phone, both logged in and out, the references and external links are both within the concert section. I tried editing the code, but it did nothing. My wikipedia is on beta, which means it’s on the newest version, right? Confusing. – DarkGlow (talk) 16:16, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

DarkGlow, Beta indicates an in-development version, witch can cause bugs, but not like that. Could you send a screenshot? Clearing the app's cache may fix the issue. WelpThatWorked (talk) 16:46, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

How long and who?

Hello, I was wondering for how long an article would remain in Draft mode in general? I see also than groups of people sharing an interest have some kind of alarms when a new page is created or one is edited in the "domain"? Are those the persons who do the review? Nothing urgent in this article, just wondering about how it works. Thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by Infraneka (talkcontribs) 16:30, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

@Infraneka: In general, they stay there as long it takes to finish them. Unsubmited Drafts that haven't been edited for 6 months may be deleted, howwer, they will be restored on request at WP:REFUND. Submited drafts stay there until a reviewer is willing to review it. There are about 2200 pending submission awaiting review, and they are not reviewed in a specific order, so patience is requiered. When a submitted article gets reviewed, there are three possible ways: Its accepted and is moved to main namspace, it gets declined and counts as unsubmitted (so the 6 months timer starts again) or its getting rejected. Rejected submissions are more often than not Candidates for speedy deletion. Victor Schmidt (talk) 17:00, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

user pages

I was browsing around and stumbled on a couple of user pages. Is there qualifications to have one? If not, how am I able to create one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Siredthea (talkcontribs) 19:52, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

@Siredthea: Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. You have already edited your user page, you added content to it and then removed it. If you wish to restore content to it, you may do so. For some guidelines on user pages, please read WP:USERPAGE. 331dot (talk) 19:57, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
I see you have now put new content on your User page. David notMD (talk) 21:59, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
Template:Replayto yeah I was worried it would get me in trouble if I made a irrelevant page. Siredthea (talk) 17:16, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Reference a webpage in a different language?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Am I allowed to do that? I found a biography webpage of very good quality that confirms a whole lot of things I am writing into my English language wikipedia article. But the webpage is in Nepali, and auto-translating it produces gibberish. So, can I still cite that source, or do I discard it and look for another? I feel like academically, I should be able to reference it. But, if an ordinary user would find the article and try to check the references, they wouldn't be able to verify anything. Right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Usedtobecool (talkcontribs) 16:31, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Usedtobecool, It is always preferred to find an english source, or something that translates easily into english, but other languages are OK. If you know the correct translation, google translate allows you to suggest fixes to the translation. However, if you can't find another source that shares the same info, it may not be reliable. WelpThatWorked (talk) 16:51, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
WelpThatWorked, Thank you. I am writing a biography about a Nepali language poet. He is a big deal and has a Nepali wikipedia page. Most of the sources that mention his biography and literature are in Nepali, by other reputable Nepali writers.But, English sources mostly mention his politics and views only. Since the country is seriously lagging in literacy and development, it will be decades before these works will all be translated to other languages, even English. I am wondering if the English language wikipedia would rather not have the articles about these figures at all, until they become more accessible globally (for reference on other such articles I might want to create in the future). What do you think? Usedtobecool (talk) 17:04, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Usedtobecool, It's been a known fact that en wikipedia has a systemic bias towards western and english language subjects when it comes to number of articles, so more articles on other subjects is always welcome. WelpThatWorked (talk) 17:51, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
WelpThatWorked, Thanks again. Thread Closed. Usedtobecool (talk) 18:22, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article not appearing in Google after 3 weeks

Hi. I created Irene Sankoff on March 8 and it doesn't seem to appear in Google search results. It does appear as a Google Knowledge Panel. Does anyone know why? Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 06:14, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

@Clayoquot: Hello and welcome. Articles are not indexed by Google until they are marked as reviewed by a New Page Patroller(or anyone, really). 331dot (talk) 07:14, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks 331dot. Where do you go to see if a particular article has been reviewed yet? And is it typical that there's a backlog of several weeks for an article to be reviewed? Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 16:56, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and marked the article as reviewed. Backlogs are not uncommon, as like the rest of Wikipedia, new page patrolling is a volunteer effort where people do what they can when they can. 331dot (talk) 18:21, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks! Clayoquot (talk | contribs) 20:54, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Capitalism and Islam

They trying to take it down the page but it has valuable and aimportant ifromation on it!! How am I able to stop to this؟ Thanks. ﷴﷺﷴﷺﷴﷺ (talk) 21:11, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

@ﷴﷺﷴﷺﷴﷺ: The way to oppose this deletion is to reply on the proposed deletion page (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Capitalism and Islam). Your comments will be most effective if you can show how it relates to Wikipedia's policies, rather than personal opinions. --Gronk Oz (talk) 22:04, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
@ﷴﷺﷴﷺﷴﷺ: I'll add that just saying "it's valuable" isn't a valid argument to retain an article. In fact, that is one example of many arguments to avoid in deletion discussions. You need to say why it's valuable or useful, and then back it up with sources. --Drm310 🍁 (talk) 05:38, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Much sources and citations can be located already in the article:
  • Robert Sabatino Lopez, Irving Woodworth Raymond, Olivia Remie Constable (2001), Medieval Trade in the Mediterranean World: Illustrative Documents, Columbia University Press, ISBN 0231123574.
  • Subhi Y. Labib (1969), "Capitalism in Medieval Islam", The Journal of Economic History 29 (1), pp. 79–96 [92–3].
  • Ray Spier (2002), "The history of the peer-review process", Trends in Biotechnology 20 (8), p. 357-358 [357].
  • Said Amir Arjomand (1999), "The Law, Agency, and Policy in Medieval Islamic Society: Development of the Institutions of Learning from the Tenth to the Fifteenth Century", Comparative Studies in Society and History 41, pp. 263–93. Cambridge University Press.
  • Samir Amin (1978), "The Arab Nation: Some Conclusions and Problems", MERIP Reports 68, pp. 3–14 [8, 13].
  • Jairus Banaji (2007), "Islam, the Mediterranean and the rise of capitalism", Historical Materialism 15 (1), pp. 47–74, Brill Publishers.
  • Heck, Gene W. (2006), Charlemagne, Muhammad, and the Arab roots of capitalism, Walter de Gruyter, ISBN 978-3110192292
  • Nolan, Peter (2007), Capitalism and Freedom: The Contradictory Character of Globalisation, Anthem Press, p. 277, ISBN 978-1843312802
  • Maya Shatzmiller, pp. 402–3.Judith Tucker (1975), "Islam and Capitalism by Maxime Rodinson", MERIP Reports 34, pp. 31–2 [31].
  • Subhi Y. Labib (1969), "Capitalism in Medieval Islam", The Journal of Economic History 29 (1), pp. 79–96 [81–2].
  • The Cambridge economic history of Europe, pp. 438–40. Cambridge University Press, ISBN 0521087090.
  • Subhi Y. Labib (1969), "Capitalism in Medieval Islam", The Journal of Economic History 29 (1), pp. 79–96 [81–4].
  • Shadi Hamid (August 2003), "An Islamic Alternative? Equality, Redistributive Justice, and the Welfare State in the Caliphate of Umar", Renaissance: Monthly Islamic Journal, 13 (8) (see online)
Is this not enough? I see article with fewer source citations still online. Why are they not taken down as well? Why is this requirement being applied only this article and not others?ﷴﷺﷴﷺﷴﷺ (talk) 21:07, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

How can you determine the correct length of an article's lead section?

(question follows from discussion here) Temporary political account (talk) 16:56, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

@Temporary political account: Welcome to the Teahouse. There is no exact answer, except to say that the lead should match the length and content of the article, and effectively summarise the key points, nor should there be anything in the lead which isn't in the article. I would point you to the introduction at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section, and the subsection Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style/Lead_section#Length. Thus, a lengthy article like Neoliberalism (c.144,000 bytes) would be expected to have three or four good paragraphs, which indeed it does. I've not read the content, so can't comment on how accurately it reflect the article, but it 'looks' about right to me. Although the lead doesn't need to have inline citations, I suspect on somewhat contentious articles, as here, this can help. Hope this reply is of use. Nick Moyes (talk) 21:41, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Draft: SINFONIA LATINA ....Potential article for creation

I am looking for feedback and ways to improve this article prior to submission for creation.--Deanna Coakley 16:59, 30 March 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Deanna Coakley (talkcontribs)

Why have you created a second draft with the same title but all in capitals? You already have a draft titled Draft:Sinfonia Latina. Theroadislong (talk) 19:31, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
@Deanna Coakley: I have now redirected Draft:SINFONÍA LATINA to the non-capitalised version. There was absolutely no need to create a second draft. Should you think you've lost any of the most recent edits because of this WP:REDIRECT, fear not, you can access all the content of any earlier version with this link. Be aware that Drafts can be edited by anyone, so for you to create two drafts about the same topic could cause problems and waste editor effort. Please remember to sign all your talk page posts with four keyboard tilde characters (like this: ~~~~). Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 21:54, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Explanatory Footnotes

Dear Teahouse host. I seem to have a problem with the Explanatory Footnote (efn) template, when I define several explanatory footnotes in a list inside the Notelist template and cite a reference in its content using the Shortened Footnote (sfn) template. Please see the article Jean-Antoine de Mesmes (1640-1709) (9:35, 29 March 2019), which throws a "cite error: A list-defined reference named ... is not used in the content". The documentation for the efn template cites the article Chinese Room, which does similar use of the efn template. It seems to be fine when I have only one efn in the list but goes wrong when I add a another. With many thanks! Johannes Schade (talk) 09:56, 29 March 2019 (UTC)

@Johannes Schade: I've had a look at the latest and two previous versions of Mesmes, but can't see any cite error reported. Are you seening this in the published form, or only when editing a section? Martin of Sheffield (talk) 11:40, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
Sorry, I gave you the wrong article. It is Claude de Mesmes, comte d'Avaux, please look under Notes and references. With many thanks Johannes Schade (talk) 15:18, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
I've had a play with it but I think you need to review the whole basis of the footnotes/citations and quotation. I simplified the sfns within the last efn, but the error persists, and I notice that the references don't seem to line up correctly. Furthermore if you go to the help page (click on the "help page" link) which is here, section 2 states "Including more than one nested reference in List-defined references will cause a Cite error". You're doing exactly that, up to three sfn refs within a single efn in a list-defined reference system. I think that if you move the efns out into the main text and get rid of the list-definitions, then the problem will go away, but I didn't want to start hacking your work too mercilessly. Upshot: get a citation expert like Trappist the monk to cast an eye, or else rearrange things. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful. Martin of Sheffield (talk) 16:36, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
Dear Martin of Sheffield, do not waste more time on it! Let me have another look. I also played some more around with it in the meantime, and I think I have an idea about what it might be. With many thanks Johannes Schade (talk) 17:02, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
Dear Martin of Sheffield: thank you very much! I suppose it is you you brought the matter to the attention of Trappist the monk and reverted all these changes on Claude de Mesmes, comte d'Avaux. Until next time.

(edit conflict)

To me that footnote is a mess:
  • non-English text should be wrapped in {{lang}} for proper markup and for screen readers
  • the italic markup was left open
  • it is not clear to me why the separate quotes use a mix of italicized and non-italicized text
  • Pattou and Laine are two different sources so shouldn't there be some sort of 'and' or punctuation between them?
  • is the quote beginning Armes: écartelé au 1 d'or, ... attributed to both identically?
  • does all of this text need to be all-in-one-footnote?
One workaround for the <ref>...</ref> tag limitation is to replace {{sfn}} with {{harv}}. I still links to the source in the bibliography but does so without a <ref>...</ref>. I have demonstrated that here:
The coat of arms has been described by Pattou,(Pattou 2019) Lainé,(Lainé 1819, p. 234) "Armes: écartelé au 1 d'or, au croissant de sable, qui est de Mesmes; aux 2 et 3 d'argent, à deux lions léopardés de gueules, lampassés et armés d'azur, qui est de BIGORRE; au 4 d'or, au croissant de sable, à la champagne ond es d'azur; au chef de gueules, qui est de LASSUS." and La Chesnaye des Bois.(La Chesnaye des Bois 1775, p. 88) "Les armes: d'or, au croissant de sable, écartelé aux 2 et 3 d'or, à deux lions ou léopards rampans, qui est DE BIGORRE; au 4 d'or à l'étoile de sable; à la pointe ondée d'azur; qui est DE LASSUIS, des plus illustres en Guienne, fondue en 1480, en celle des MESMES." The descriptions by Lainé and La Chesnaye des Bois are both marred by a few obvious errors, which are corrected in the description given by Pattou. The first quarter is sometimes said to be for Avaux rather than for Mesmes.(La Chesnaye des Bois 1770, table at the end of the volume) "AVAUX: d'or au croissant de sable."
I tested this in the article (note that I tweaked the Pattou template to give it a date which I took from the source).
First, it seems to me is organize and clarify, There is no limitation on space here so if you need multiple notes to accomplish the job, that's ok. And, one other quibble: mind the WP:LISTGAP in §Notes and references and MOS:PSEUDOHEAD in §Rank.
Trappist the monk (talk) 17:28, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
Dear Trappist the monk, thank you for your intervention. I think you saw a version that was messed up by repetitive trial and error debugging attempts. I just have made a new state of Claude de Mesmes, comte d'Avaux that is marked "No blank lines between list items". I removed the empty lines between the items of the list of references as I understand you wanted it. I did not know and am very glad to learn from you. The italics in the quotes should now be right and be precisely as in the cited source, but you seem to believe the entire quotes should be in italics because it is foreign regardless of the use of Roman and italic characters in the source. The cite error still happens and footnote 30 is not generated. I have a;lso worked on another article Jean-Antoine de Mesmes (1640-1709) where the same error happens. I think one should well be allowed to make listed and named explanatory footnotes and include shortened footnotes in them. The article Chinese room is cited for it in the documentation for the explanatory footnote. I think more and more that this is a bug. With many thanks Johannes Schade (talk) 21:56, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Style for this article

I am trying to edit this article : 79th Light Anti-Aircraft Battery But I don't know how to phrase anything or what the style rules are. What do you do? (for the article)

(Oops I forgot to sign) AltoStev (talk) 02:36, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

@AltoStev: Welcome to Wikipedia, and thanks for wanting to make it better. You should follow the style that is currently in use. For learning how to edit, check out WP:TUTORIAL and the learning game WP:ADVENTURE. RudolfRed (talk) 00:47, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

How can I make a new page?

Im wondering how to make a new page, im trying to make new pages for players from my NRL team the Parramatta Eels. How do I make a new page for a rugby league player? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vin404 (talkcontribs) 00:47, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

@Vin404: Welcome to Wikipedia. Read and follow WP:YFA for how to create an article, and you can use the wizard there to create a draft for review. The player will need to meet the requirements of notability at WP:RLN. Creating a new article is not an easy task for the unexperienced, so you may be better off working to improve existing articles until you know more about Wikipedia. RudolfRed (talk) 00:53, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
If you look at Parramatta Eels, you can see that some players already have articles. RudolfRed (talk) 00:55, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Vin404. I suggest you re-frame "make a new page for" as "write an encyclopaedia article about". --ColinFine (talk) 01:10, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

publishing a new article

Hi, I want to publish an article that's on my sandbox, when I click "move" I am offered a pair of boxes -- the first one has a drop -down coaches such as (article) and the second box has my user name. Should I put the article title in one or both? Thanks. Bitwixen (talk) 03:49, 31 March 2019 (UTC) The article title should be: Jennifer Yu (chess player)Bitwixen (talk) 03:58, 31 March 2019 (UTC) I figured it out. Thank you. Bitwixen (talk) 04:05, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Dis-satified with massive edit of sources on article Pratishtha Sharma

Hi this is Rusiane(rusi) one of my contributed article of Pratishtha Sharma was under massive edit and more than 100 sources were removed quoting unreliable. it was also mentined that i am doing unexplained changes. many sources were deleted and it was mentioned that youtube sources are un-reliable. which is acceptable but other sources are from national news paper with millions of circulation, government of India web links, other web sources etc. links are from hindi language new papers also but big news papers. hindi is well used language in India and article is on Indian personality. you tube link were also interview videos of national news channels uploaded by them on their you tube channels. undo the same is not possible and were threatened to remove article. finding difficulty in rechecking it as contribution is not of one day.being an old user i follow moderate policy, now surprised to see massive changes by a new users and questioning my credibility without thoroughly checking. kindly guide what to do.Rusianejohn (talk) 11:20, 30 March 2019 (UTC)Rusianejohn (talk) 11:21, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Rusianejohn, I'm not sure I'm understanding your use of the terms "old user" and "new user." Your account shows 189 edits, while Chiswick Chap shows 135,000+. --valereee (talk) 12:23, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Let's allow for "old user" that R meant in context of this article, as having been involved with it since 2013. But as we all know, involvement with an article does not equal ownership. CC has patiently been asking at R's Talk page to identify which among the plethora of references can be considered reliable sources. David notMD (talk) 16:13, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
you are not getting to the core of the issue. 118 links were deleted out of which you tube links were around 10 only and rest were all independent links of third parties and news papers and news channels, not only news but news videos from news channels belong to the other countries as well. at wiki we delete dead links, suggest changes on talk page. this was my first experience. Rusianejohn (talk) 06:45, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
You also have a thread about this here Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard#Regarding massive editing on page Pratishtha Sharma. Please do not open multiple threads about the same topic. MarnetteD|Talk 06:48, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

How do you edit an article to include a hatnote?

How do you edit an article to include a hatnote? No Frills (grocery store) should probably be included in a hatnote under the article No Frills Excursions, especially since "NoFrills" is a common way to refer to the grocery store (at least in my local area, it was what I was expecting to find when I searched it) and redirects to that article. Clovermoss (talk) 03:51, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi @Clovermoss: See Wikipedia:Hatnote to know more about hatnotes. To see list of available hatnotes, open Template:Hatnote templates and follow their individual documentations for how to use. – Ammarpad (talk) 05:59, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
@Ammarpad: Thank you for your help. Clovermoss (talk) 10:59, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

What is the difference from a ping, a Reply, and a Yo?

As said above. Also, is there other things that notify a user? Acyclonxe Let’s discuss it, please. 06:11, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

In terms of functionality, no difference. They all serve the same function; to generate a notification to another user. Their outputs may differ however. – Ammarpad (talk) 06:18, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Okay Thank you! Acyclonxe Let’s discuss it, please. 06:19, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Acyclonxe: The notification is caused by a wikilink to the user page of the user. It doesn't matter how the link is made. Here I wrote it directly as [[User:Acyclonxe|Acyclonxe]] without a template. The edit has to be signed and there are some other conditions which are usually met. There are details at mw:Manual:Echo#Technical details but if you just remember to sign in the same edit then it's usually OK. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:32, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Removing italicization from an article title

How do I do this? The article is - Quorthon is the artist's name, not the title of a record or book, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Halfelven Ranger (talkcontribs) 18:07, 30 March 2019 (UTC)

Now that's a damn good question, someone smarter than me will have to answer, I'm looking for a Template:Italic title but can't see any. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 18:56, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
It might have something to do with the album infoboxes used in the article but I could be wrong. I usually go to Redrose64 who is good at figuring these things out. MarnetteD|Talk 19:04, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Gråbergs Gråa Sång, Halfelven Ranger To make sure the title of the article is not shown in italics, you can add add | italic_title = no to the album infoboxes. Vexations (talk) 19:16, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
Superb, thank you all. Halfelven Ranger —Preceding undated comment added 19:26, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
This really should be in a FAQ somewhere, the number of times that it's come up at WP:VPT etc. Anyway, if you look at the template page, Template:Infobox album, you will find a large portion of it has a pale green background, which is headed "Template documentation". Just below that heading there are some rectangular boxes. One of these begins "This infobox should italicize the article title automatically." containing further instructions. Boxes like that are found near the top of the documentation for several other infoboxes that are concerned with published works, such as {{infobox newspaper}}, {{infobox book}}, etc. The actual parameter to use does vary, so the documentation for the specific infovox should always be consulted. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 14:05, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

What I think was a small but useful edit was deleted as not being constructive by someone, why?

In this article : about ARP spoofing, a very common network vulnerability and the defence section is rather incomplete, I tested and added some minor information to a few defence tools but it was reverted by someone for not being constructive, this seems pretty restrictive, this is my first edit however, it was not perfect but it was important information to start with for an article that was not being updated, why? thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by Apool125 (talkcontribs) 14:13, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

@Apool125: Hello and welcome to the Teahouse. Have you tried asking the person who removed your edit directly? 331dot (talk) 14:16, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
@331dot: Thanks and No I have not and I am not sure how to, talk page did not seem like to the way to go, is it? can you PM someone? Apool125 (talk) 14:23, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
@Apool125: Both article talk pages and user talk pages are meant for communication related to Wikipedia, in the case of article talk pages communication about that article specifically. In terms of a private message, you can see if that user has email enabled so you can email them, by visiting their userpage and clicking "email this user" on the left of the screen, but they are under no obligation to reply to you(if they have email enabled at all). Many users prefer to keep most Wikipedia related communication on Wikipedia. It's not really clear to me why your edit was reverted, but the best way to find out is a polite question to that user. 331dot (talk) 14:27, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
@331dot: Hey, added a section on their talk page, will add one on the article's talk page if they do not respond, thanks lots for the help, how do you @some one without the tedious command? Apool125 (talk) 14:42, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
You can also use {{u|331dot}}(as an example), but that's about as simple as it gets. 331dot (talk) 14:44, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

331dot ah thanks much friend, cheers Apool125 (talk) 15:23, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Boldklubben Frem

The English Wikipedia article for the Danish Soccer club Boldklubben Frem has the roster of a Portuguese team rather than that of the team.

This is a link to the correct roster: . The Transfermarkt page will also tell you more about the players.

Thanks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1702:12A0:1210:909D:92CF:8864:E178 (talk) 17:16, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Thanks. It had been vandalized. I have restored the correct squad from an old version.[1] PrimeHunter (talk) 17:31, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Learning about Formatting

Can someone tell me about some kinds of Text formatting? I have saw a lot of users using different kind of colors too but those codes were really hard to decipher and memorise. Shades and all that stuff too are pretty confusing. Your help will be remembered, appreciated and Re-paid. From a Universal Servant Levent Heitmeier (talk) 15:50, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

I think your User page (Sunday Morning complete lyrics and a audio of the song) are a copyright violation. David notMD (talk) 16:19, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
I don't know about that stuff. I fetched it from Wikipedia so i thought that nothing was wrong with it. The audio and lyrics both are provided on the page. I think you should re-check if you are right or wrong David notMD. Levent Heitmeier (talk) 16:23, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
@Levent Heitmeier: I am afraid you were mistaken to believe you could place that content on your userpage, and David notMD was quite correct to point this out to you. So, I would politely ask you to very speedily delete both the lyrics and audio sample immediately. It's not an unreasonable error for a new editor to make, but those of us with more experience here do "know about that stuff". Here are the reasons:
  1. The audio file is uploaded under a 'fair use' policy. Meaning that it is recognised as copyright, but that a short sample is deemed appropriate under law to demonstrate the genre, but ONLY in the relevant article, not anywhere else. Certainly not on your or anyone else's userpage.
  2. You userpage is there for you to say a little about yourself and your interest in editing Wikipedia. See WP:NOTWEBHOST to appreciate it's not intended as the equivalent of a "student pinboard" for editors to display stuff that just happens to take their fancy. I respect your great taste in music, but please leave sharing copyrighted lyrics and sound files for personal blogs and websites, please.
  3. I can't see whereabouts on Wikipedia you copied the lyrics from - perhaps you could point this out to us, so we can check? See Wikipedia:Lyrics and poetry, which makes it clear that lyrics are generally copyright of the authors, so unless they were released under an appropriate licence, having them on your userpage falls foul of our strict rules on WP:COPYVIO|copyright violation]], not to mention WP:NOTWEBHOST.
I'm really sorry to sound so discouraging over your attempts to make a nice userpage, but I'm afraid it's simply not OK to do it in the way you have so innocently done here. To make up for the disappointment, do take a look at Wikipedia:User page design center for some great ideas to make good-looking userpages that do conform to our policies. And to answer your original question: Take a look at Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Text formatting. Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 16:56, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks Nick Moyes for being so polite towards me and i totally understand Wikipedia's reservations and henceforth i will cooperate. From a universal servant 2405:204:A78D:99EB:A891:1A39:6B2F:8F24 (talk) 17:33, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Sorry for this IP message. I did it by mistake because I opened the e-mail notification and clicked on the link but realised later that the mobile phone was my brothers' and the account isn't logged in there. Sorry again. Levent Heitmeier (talk) 17:36, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Humble request

Can you please create a new userbox for me showing that I am a fan of Ravindra Jainमन-मन्दिर (talk) 17:19, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

@मन-मन्दिर: You can pick a design you like at Wikipedia:Userboxes/Music/Artists and adapt it. Below is an adapted version of User:ImSonyR9/Himesh Reshammiya. See Template:Userbox for more parameters. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:46, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
RavindraJain.jpgThis user is a fan of Ravindra Jain.

Can you cite Wikipedia in Wikipedia?

I know it’s generally discouraged to cite Wikipedia. My teachers said it, Wikipedia says it, I say it. But is it okay to cite Wikipedia in Wikipedia? For example, I recently added the event of two Texas officers being gunned down by Barrow Gang members in Grapevine Texas to a date article. I cited a specific section from Wikipedia’s Frank Hamer article. Is that ok? — Preceding unsigned comment added by SmileyTrek (talkcontribs) 15:42, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

No. Please see Wikipedia:CIRCULAR. However, if that information is reliably sourced you can reference the same sources.--Shantavira|feed me

@Shantavira: Thank you, I will follow your advice.SmileyTrek (talk) 17:54, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Help making a page searchable outside wikipedia please

Hi all, I recently published a page which I have just discovered does not appear in google searches. I am wondering why, and also how can I fix this? Could it be because after initially publishing the page as "Leonard Pozner" I moved it to "Lenny (Leonard) Pozner"? The reason for this was that I had had a re-think and decided that the subject of the page was more commonly known by the name "Lenny". Thanks330highflyer (talk) 03:37, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

@330highflyer: This is because the page has not yet been reviewed by a New page reviewer. It was not caused by your actions. So please wait a little bit until it's reviewed, you can continue improving it in the meantime. – Ammarpad (talk) 06:15, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Thanks for the information. Any idea how long the review process takes? The last article I created was reviewed within a day or so. I had assumed that this new article had already been reviewed and I had just missed it. 330highflyer (talk) 08:22, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
@330highflyer: Reviews are done in no particular order; it could take an hour, it could take a week or more. It will be done when a volunteer gets to it. 331dot (talk) 11:07, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Ok thanks. It’s been about 2 weeks, thought it may have been missed. I’ll just keep waiting. 330highflyer (talk) 18:32, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Climate change Further Reading link not working

I found that the first link in the Further Reading of Climate change is not working. The "Summary for Policymakers" needs to be updated. I found a new link but am not sure how to change it. I should be ok with editing a semi-protected article. But the visual editor link doesn't let me do anything. I didn't want to mess with the edit source hyperlink without making sure about how this citation works. Thanks for your help.

Mjr524 (talk) 18:52, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

My company has been acquired another company and this has to be reflected

where can i submit changes to an entry to be approved?

Many thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rizg (talkcontribs) 19:49, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Because you have a WP:conflict of interest, you should state the changes on the talk page of the company article, and provide appropriate references, then an uninvolved editor will bring the article up to date. Dbfirs 19:53, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Locations & Postings

Looking for code syntax for Wikipedia & some helping hand on file-uploads / decoding for Wikipedia posting. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dale Downer (talkcontribs) 20:15, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Dale Downer, take a look at this cheatsheet for wikicode. Eman235/talk 21:29, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Publishing the page

Hello! I have just made a page and it got saved as draft, does this mean Wikipedia is reviewing the page and starting the process to publish it on google? I'm new here so I don't have much idea about it, I would be happy to know.:) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vijitvj (talkcontribs) 22:06, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi. I've put a draft template at the top of Draft:RAMSTEAID. Push the blue "submit your draft for review" button to submit it for review.
The draft probably won't be accepted in its current state, though. It has a rather promotional tone, and has no references, which are required. Take a look at Wikipedia:Your First Article.
Also, to clarify: articles aren't "published on google", they are published on Wikipedia and indexed by Google. (Draft articles are not indexed.) Eman235/talk 22:20, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Your User name suggests you are the founder of the company. If this is true, you should describe your relationship to the company on your user page. And read WP:COI and WP:PAID. David notMD (talk) 22:42, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Creating images


I am currently working on my first article and could use some feedback regarding images. I have gone through the training module and attempted to search images in wikipedia related to my subject but it is quite specific. I am trying to upload images on specific joint designs in welds. If I am referencing a book, would it be allowed for me to recreate those images myself and use them in my article?

Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aguilar.97 (talkcontribs) 21:55, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

@Aguilar.97: Welcome to the Teahouse. Whilst you may create a graphic of your own, it is important to appreciate that you can't just copy an existing graphic. Your version has to be sufficiently different that there's not going to be any accusation of copyright theft. Just as we ask editors to write content in their own words, and not just paraphrase, the same applies to graphics as well. Providing you can make your graphic sufficiently different from one that's in a book, you should be ok with uploading it to Commons. You might still wish to acknowledge the sources of inspiration that led to your graphic. Does this make sense? Good luck with your course. Nick Moyes (talk) 00:19, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

editing articles

How many articles can I edit and how many can I come up with from scratch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Passmore Kuzipaa (talkcontribs) 20:36, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

Passmore Kuzipaa, you can edit as many articles as you wish. You can create as many new articles as you want, too, but bear in mind that this is harder than regular editing. Take a look at this guide for help on creating articles. Eman235/talk 21:27, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
@Passmore Kuzipaa: Apart from a very small number of protected articles, that means that, as of today, you have a choice of editing somewhere around 5,829,737 articles! Good luck. Nick Moyes (talk) 00:24, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

It's been less than two weeks...

But within my time here so far, I've learned a lot, haven't I? Woshiyiweizhongguoren (🇨🇳) 16:20, 31 March 2019 (UTC)

As far as i see, you have. Are you willing to share the secret? From a universal servant Levent Heitmeier (talk) 16:25, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
@Levant Heitmeier: Starting slowly, watching what others do and say, and asking a few sensible questions is one not-so-secret method. Check out Help:Getting started or do The Wikipedia Adventure to get a sense of the basics of editing this encyclopaedia. Nick Moyes (talk) 17:04, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
@Levent Heitmeier: I figured out the basics fairly quickly, I'd say. It took me a very short time to figure out that double square brackets make links, double curly brackets make templates, double euals signs make headers, etc. Sometimes though, I kind of need to make a few guesses, but hey, that's what the show preview button is for! I do make a few mistakes here and there, due to my newness here as well as the fact that English is my second language (if you haven't told from my signature, Chinese is my first); whenever I realize I made a mistake, I tried to fix it as soon as possible. So yeah, there isn't really much of a secret per se, it's just that I'm a fast learner in many respects, and Wikipedia is no exception. Woshiyiweizhongguoren (🇨🇳) 18:00, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
At the end, it always matters upon how much hard work and dedication, you are showing towards a particular task. I have just completed my annual exams so i am a bit free than before so i am doing these things for my own amusement but as soon as my studies get back on track, I'll take a break of nearly 6-7 months. That's the way it is. I am a kind of person who tries to devote his time majorly to the help of others and that's probably why I chose environmental science as my studies though the scope here in my country is too low and so you have to forget about high net income. But Hurricanes like me are hard to stop from international recognition. From a universal servant Levent Heitmeier (talk) 18:13, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
@Levent Heitmeier: I often edit on the way to the workplace and from the workplace. Even though I consider myself to be a somewhat busy man, I always manage to find some time to edit at least once per day. Woshiyiweizhongguoren (🇨🇳) 23:25, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Yeah i know. Guys have to work a lot in china and you seem to be a hard working guy. Though i will edit occasionaly because outside of all this, i work hard in studies and to become better in my football skills with each day. Other than that i am also a keen gamer so all that pushes me away from wikipedia. Levent Heitmeier (talk) 02:47, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Survey by neutral national organization

Is a survey by a national information clearinghouse (The Scientist Magazine) sufficiently third party? The target organization was not a participant in the survey. 2,081 usable and qualifying responses were received from 61 separate sources and tabulated by magazine staff, and the magazine published the results. Can this be used as independent third-party data?DeknMike (talk) 02:41, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Welcome to the Teahouse, DeknMike. The source appears to be reliable in general but it would be necessary to see the exact survey and know which specific assertion it is intended to support. The best place for such discussions is Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard. It looks like you are working on Draft:Oklahoma Medical Research Foundation. This is not appropriate because we already have an article Oklahoma Medical Research Foundation. The draft namespace is for drafts of new articles, not for drafting improvements to existing articles. You should use your own userspace instead, such as a personal sandbox. I see lots of promotional language in your draft, such as "OMRF has a reputation as a great place to work" and "It is one of the nation's top independent medical research centers in the fields of immune disfunction, cancers and cardiology." Unreferenced assertions like that violate the neutral point of view. I recommend that you abandon this draft, and instead make specific requests for changes at Talk: Oklahoma Medical Research Foundation, using Template:Request edit since you have a conflict of interest. Cullen328 Let's discuss it 03:51, 1 April 2019 (UTC)

Code List

Wikipedia has their own version of submitting information via web code. They also have a page reference [1]

Delete this section soon:(Looking for followup link on how to adjust my signature as it seems to be Dale Downer (talk) 05:03, 1 April 2019 (UTC) locked or something I'm missing.)


  1. ^ "Help:Wikitext". Wikipedia. 7 February 2019. Retrieved 3/31/19. Check date values in: |accessdate= (help)
Hello Dale Downer. Welcome back to the Teahouse. I'm not quite sure what you're asking for. If all you want is information on how to modify your signature, see: Wikipedia:Signatures, and specifically the subsection whose shortcut is WP:CUSTOMSIG. Note that you don't need to cite an internal link to Wikipedia as if it were an inline citation. You can either place a set if single square brackets around the url, like this: [2], or a double set around only the part beginning Help:, Wikpedia:, or WP:, like this: Help:Wikitext.   Regards, Nick Moyes (talk) 08:52, 1 April 2019 (UTC)