Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)

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The technical section of the village pump is used to discuss technical issues about Wikipedia. Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator (see how to report a bug). Bugs with security implications should be reported differently (see how to report security bugs).

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Watchlist not being marked read[edit]

So sometime over last night my watchlist behavior changed, and the nodes on the side won't change from green to grey after I visit the diffs like they usually do. The marked pages as read seems to work, though. I do have some custom CSS which I know might be an issue, and am using Monobook, but it is extremely useful to know if I missed anything when I go through my list. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 12:38, 2 May 2019 (UTC)

Not caused by your custom CSS, being looked at in phab:T218511. – Ammarpad (talk) 14:35, 2 May 2019 (UTC)
I hope it's sorted soon. Today I saw a page on my watchlist with new edits not marked as new. It's the first time I've noticed this; it's generally been the problem described above. This behaviour's described on the phabricator page as well. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 04:05, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
I've been having this and related problems on and off since mid-March. See here for past discussion. I hope this all gets done with soon. —Granger (talk · contribs) 11:46, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
Yes, I'm seeing it again too now, with the added benefit of changed, unseen pages showing up without bold. It's kinda insane this is STILL an issue six weeks later! —Joeyconnick (talk) 03:42, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Sigh. And now bolded and non-bolded entries are entirely random. GMGtalk 12:18, 3 May 2019 (UTC)
Melodia, I'm getting pages showing I've visited since the last change when it's not true. --valereee (talk) 18:09, 4 May 2019 (UTC)
I get this too. – Tea2min (talk) 06:40, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
My watchlist is buggered too, exactly as described above, but that Phabricator report is weeks old, and my issue only started a couple of days ago.Roxy, the dog. wooF 14:27, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
It seems that it was related to whatever update included a time stamp on the "view new changes" button. Or maybe that's just a coincidence. At any rate, it's a problem across all projects, and not just the English Wikipedia. GMGtalk 14:46, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
The issue with Firefox certification made teh Internetz unusable for me yesterday. Mozilla script kiddies fixed that quite quickly. Could WMF poach some of the Mozilla nerds to help? Roxy, the dog. wooF 14:52, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
As noted above, the issue has been affecting some users (including me) since March, so something else must be involved with the problem. isaacl (talk) 17:26, 5 May 2019 (UTC)
Started happening for me a few days ago too - David Gerard (talk) 17:36, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
Seems to have stopped happening for me now - David Gerard (talk) 19:35, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
Just started again for me. —Joeyconnick (talk) 05:23, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
I have these two gadgets enabled: "Display green collapsible arrows and green bullets for changed pages in your Watchlist, History and Recent changes (unavailable with the improved Watchlist user interface)"; "Display pages on your watchlist that have changed since your last visit in bold (see customizing watchlists for more options)". Both have been misbehaving for several weeks now. But interestingly, there was an occasion a day or two back when the Wikimedia servers were slow, and not all of the JavaScript and CSS was being sent back to me. During that period, the Watchlist was behaving as it should: unread posts were boldfaced with a green bullet; read posts were normal weight with a blue-grey bullet. Once the servers were back to speed, the misbehaviour resumed. I conclude that for each of the gadgets, there are two different scripts that have different effects that conflict with one another. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 16:21, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
Perhaps we'll find out later this week. According to the Phabricator page this week's MediaWiki release fixes it. In the meantime I'm thinking of my watchlist as one of those irritating online shops where they keep suggesting the same items, whether or not you've seen them ('Other editors who read Village pump (technical) were interested in...'). BlackcurrantTea (talk) 16:59, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
Still not fixed. Someone's posted about it on Phabricator; the task is still marked as resolved, and I can't tell if anyone's opened a new one. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 18:06, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
Yes, it's still broken. Read items still marked as unread. I don't know what the "Closed, Resolved" status means: either it's fixed in the code but not deployed on the servers yet, or it's already deployed, but then it means the fix does not fix it, and therefore the bug should be reopened.—J. M. (talk) 21:06, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Redirect page tab behavior[edit]

The "Article" tab on a redirect Talk page should go to the article, not to its redirect target.

The "Talk" and "Article" tabs should be a toggle: click one, and it should go to the other. Practically anywhere else in the encyclopedia, this is the case: if I'm on a Talk page of some article or project page, and click the "Article" or "Project page" tab, I go to the accompanying article, or Project page. Not so with redirect Talk pages, however. If I'm at Talk:This is a redirect page and I click the "Article" tab, it does not go back to the article, it goes to the target of the redirect. Not what I wanted. If I want the target page, I know how to get there.

I'd like to see this behavior changed. My guess is, a large majority of the time, someone on a Talk redirect page clicking the Article tab, wants to go back to the redirect article, not to the redirect target. If there's some legacy reason to keep this as the default behavior, then please at least offer an option in WP:Preferences to check a box assigning the "Article" tab (and "Project page" tab) to the article/project page, instead of to its redirected target page. Or, maybe some javascript whiz can cook something up for commons.js. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 02:20, 9 May 2019 (UTC) {{ping}} please.

Hi, @Mathglot: I believe this belongs to where you first posted it; that is VPT, as it's more a technical decision than a social one. This is not something ideal for a preference setting but you can ask at Wikipedia:User scripts/Requests if someone is willing to write some script for this. The task phab:T5324 was asking the same thing and was declined because if this is implemented there's no way to go directly to the target page without manually editing the URL, among other reasons. – Ammarpad (talk) 04:34, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
Thanks! See WP:US/R#Redirect page tab behavior. Mathglot (talk) 06:23, 9 May 2019 (UTC)
@Mathglot and Ammarpad: I've reopened the Phabricator issue because I found the original reasons for the close didn't seem to directly address what changing this behavior would affect. For convienance, I'll include the main body of the comment I posted on the Phabricator ticket:

As far as I can tell, there is no advantage to immediately going to the target page after switching to the Page or Read tabs. One can only access these tabs from other tabs, and when I am in the Edit, Talk, or History tab, I am already examining the redirect in more detail, usually in preparation for editing it. In fact, I cannot think of a single instance where I wanted to go directly to the target page when I clicked on the Page or Read tab.

While this can easily be partly solved by the user script posted here, I still think it would beneficial if this was the core behavior. This would also make the interface more consistent; one is not taken to a redirect page's target after saving and editing, so I think the the Page and Read tabs should behave the same.

I don't know if reposting here is technically correct, since the VPT header says Bug reports and feature requests should be made in Phabricator, but I thought I would move it here from the proposals page so any potential further on-wiki discussion can be done here. eπi (talk | contribs) 01:38, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
@Mathglot and Ammarpad: Fix ping. eπi (talk | contribs) 01:40, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
According to Help:Redirect and my own experience, when a redirect is followed, a link to the redirect itself is just below the title. So it's one click away. DMacks (talk) 01:53, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
DMacks If it's scoped to the main article, that works fine, but if it's section scoped, it gets annoying (you may end up scrolling up the page significantly). So it's not always one click when going to the target page. But it's always one click away to the target page when one is at the redirect itself. eπi (talk | contribs) 02:00, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
Good point. There have been proposals over the years to have the window decorations (header/tabs and left-column toolbox) frozen and only the article itself in a scrolling pane. That would resolve the section-link "I have to press the 'home' key or scroll up" situation. I think there is also a gadget that places a "home" link in each section-header line. DMacks (talk) 02:13, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
@DMacks: Also, I have a quick question: have you ever been at the Edit, Talk, or History tab of a redirect page and wanted to go to the redirect's target directly? eπi (talk | contribs) 02:05, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
Sure, if I'm at a talkpage of an article that was merge/redirected while looking for previous discussion of a certain bit of article content, I then want to look at the current article content (follow redirect) or the history at the time of that discussion (History tab of the redirect), not at the redirect itself. If I'm editing a redirect, I sure want easy access to its target so I can work on extracting a self-contained section that has grown large enough to be a stand-alone. DMacks (talk) 02:13, 10 May 2019 (UTC)
I would agree that the intended behavior of the "Article" button, when on a talk/history page of a redirect, should be to link to the redirect itself. The number of times an editor wants to go directly from the redirect talk page to the redirect target is small compared to the number of times the editor wants to go to the redirect itself. This is not really a technical issue, as the technical implementation is straightforward if there is consensus to change the behavior, so I think VPP was probably a better venue. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE
) 22:02, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

{{Maplink}} not working[edit]

Can you tell me why {{maplink|frame=yes|zoom=6|id=6250|type=shape|text=Interactive map of Western Sahara}} will not work on Western Sahara? The entry at d:Q6250 has c:Data:Western Sahara.map associated with it. ―Justin (koavf)TCM 06:42, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

Hm. Similar problem at Palmyra Atoll: c:Data:Palmyra Atoll.map and d:Q123076#P265 are centered properly but the interactive map here is in the middle of the Pacific... Why is this? ―Justin (koavf)TCM 06:47, 11 May 2019 (UTC)
Koavf,Western Sahara fixed and reported as desirable improvement —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 20:54, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
Thanks! ―Justin (koavf)TCM 20:54, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
@TheDJ: Can you figure out what's up with the Palmyra map? Why is it incorrectly centered? ―Justin (koavf)TCM 20:55, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
Koavf, it's not. it was simply so far zoomed out that you couldn't see the atoll —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 21:10, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
Hm, when I scrolled in, I must have panned as well. Thanks. ―Justin (koavf)TCM 21:14, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Suggestion for a new tool[edit]

I have a suggestion for a new tool. Short story: When you find an unsigned post like this, you activate the tool and it looks in the edit history to find the probable commenting user. After finding a possible match, it prompts the user for confirmation. We accept and it either tags it as {{unsigned|49.14.98.130|11:53, 11 May 2019‎}} or it properly formats the post by itself and maybe even sends a "please remember to sign your posts with four tildes" notice. The automatic signing bot doesn't always work and when I encounter these in the wild I have to do a bunch of copy/pasting and editing just to get someone's post set up right. Thanks! Cyphoidbomb (talk) 05:38, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

@Cyphoidbomb: User:Anomie/unsignedhelper does part of this. -- John of Reading (talk) 06:25, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
The "automatic signing bot" is SineBot (talk · contribs), which doesn't always work because it is down at the moment (I don't know whether Slakr (talk · contribs) is aware, but this mention should notify them). Also, {{unsigned}} is not the best one for IP addresses - for IPs, use {{subst:unsignedIP|49.14.98.130|11:53, 11 May 2019‎}}; for logged-in users, use {{subst:unsigned|Example|11:53, 11 May 2019‎}} - please also note the presence of subst: in both cases. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 11:53, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
You can also use {{subst:xsign|11:53, 11 May 2019‎ 49.14.98.130}}, which lets you copy and paste the time/IP string directly from the edit history, and automatically detects whether or not it is an IP address. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE
) 14:10, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Taxobox questions[edit]

Resolved

I am having a few issues understanding taxobox (the article in question is Amphinotus nymphula):

  1. The image in the infobox is not appearing, when I used the [[File:]] argument earlier (which was wrong), it previewed once and disappeared. It still isn't appearing.
  2. The italic page name don't work a lot of the times (|name= was not defined obviously), why?
  3. When I placed the status/status_system/status_ref parameters at the end (after binomial_authority), the graphical representation did not appear.

--qedk (t c) 10:12, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

  1. Fixed.[1] There were some bad characters which prevented the image parameter name from being understood. It was fixed when I copy-pasted the line in Firefox so I guess Firefox automatically removes them when copying.
  2. Please be specific with a link to an example you think should have italics according to Template:Taxobox#Bold/italic markup.
  3. Maybe you had a similar problem with bad characters when status/status_system/status_ref parameters were at the end. It works when I move them to the end.
PrimeHunter (talk) 11:31, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
status_system had similar bad characters before [2] so it still failed when you first moved the parameters to the top in [3]. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:23, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
@QEDK and PrimeHunter: The "bad characters" were non-breaking spaces and this is another instance of this problem. In some browsers (I think Firefox is one), merely cutting the bad line and pasting it back in will convert all the NBSPs to normal spaces, which are valid. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 12:26, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
See this diff for the italics problem. I don't know what I changed but after this change, the title appeared as italics. I didn't realise there was non-breaking spaces, which is weird, because I even copy-pasted it off another of my working articles (Ellen Clark's crayfish) and I was equally surprised. Maybe the spaces are being converted to nbsps in Safari? --qedk (t c) 13:05, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
Other than iOS (mentioned in that archived thread that I linked earlier), I know of no browser which converts normal spaces to NBSPs. Experimenting with Firefox and Opera, I find that if you have a line of Wikicode that contains NBSPs, and cut or copy this using Opera, the NBSPs are preserved, and in Firefox they are converted to normal spaces. In either browser, pasting into the edit window will not affect the resultant type of space.
Cut or copy from Paste to Effect on NBSPs
Firefox Firefox Converted to normal spaces
Firefox Opera Converted to normal spaces
Opera Firefox Preserved
Opera Opera Preserved
I can't check Safari, since the most recent version available for Windows refuses to load Wikipedia pages - it 'can't establish a secure connection to the server "en.wikipedia.org"'. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 14:28, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
Your diff added italics in binomial = ''Amphinotus nymphula''. This caused italics in the page title. Template:Taxobox#Bold/italic markup says: "Italicization must be done manually in all parameters. If the entry for genus or species (with manually added italics) matches the page title then the name of the taxobox and the title of the page will be italicized." It appears this "genus or species" rule also applies for binomial. Template:Taxobox#Italic page titles says: "If the value of |genus=, |species=, or |binomial= exactly matches the title of the page, and |name= is unspecified, the taxobox and page title will be italicized automatically." binomial is included here but the rule apparently only applies when the parameter value has italics. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:09, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
Still no idea as to where the nbsps came from (given that I copy-pasted it from another of my articles with working parameters). I clarified the |binomial= documentation as it's not exactly accurate. Thanks a ton, @PrimeHunter and Redrose64:! --qedk (t c) 17:23, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Easy Timeline question[edit]

Hi, is there any way to use <timeline>...</timeline>, for ex, the way I use it is Template:F1Laps2019. How can I change, the "color" parameter and using a hex code (or similar)? For ex: #FFFFFF. Because some colors like sky blue doesn't work.

I have this two pages, [4] [5], if this can help me. So the point agaiin is that I want to change the color:yellow for a hex code that didn't limit the colors. ShaGuarF1 (talk) 19:58, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

@ShaGuarF1: Usually, if I want to use a complicated extension that I've not used before, I find an existing page that uses that extension and play withe the parameters (previewing always, and not saving) in order to work out what effect various changes might have. Apart from that, the general documentation is at mw:Extension:EasyTimeline, and the main parameters that accept a colour value are: mw:Extension:EasyTimeline/syntax#BackgroundColors; mw:Extension:EasyTimeline/syntax#Colors; and see the list of valid named colours at mw:Extension:EasyTimeline/syntax#Predefined colors. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 20:24, 12 May 2019 (UTC)
Yeah, I have used it but having a pattern to do that templates. But not in a "complex way". I edit while writing this: well, I don't remember if I visited that page before (I did a little investigation in the past), but I now already did it, that was not so hard to understand. Thank you for the comment. ShaGuarF1 (talk) 20:51, 12 May 2019 (UTC)

Pseudo-heading or acceptable dlist?[edit]

In List of shooting sports organizations we have markup like this:

Markup Renders as
;Indonesia:
* [[IPSC Indonesia]], international member of [[International Practical Shooting Confederation|IPSC]].
* [[Indonesian Target Shooting and Hunting Association]], international member of [[International Shooting Sport Federation|ISSF]].

;Iran:
* [[Shooting Federation Islamic Republic of Iran]], international member of [[International Shooting Sport Federation|ISSF]].

;Iraq:
* [[Iraqi Shooting Federation]], international member of [[International Shooting Sport Federation|ISSF]].

;Israel:
* [[Israel Shooting Federation]], international member of [[International Practical Shooting Confederation|IPSC]] and [[International Shooting Sport Federation|ISSF]].

;Japan:
* [[IPSC Japan]], international member of [[International Practical Shooting Confederation|IPSC]].
* [[National Rifle Association of Japan]], international member of [[International Shooting Sport Federation|ISSF]].
* [[Japan Clay Target Shooting Association]], international member of [[International Shooting Sport Federation|ISSF]].
Indonesia
Iran
Iraq
Israel
Japan

Is that an acceptable description list or should it be regarded as a pseudo-heading? Sam Sailor 05:54, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

It appears there's not any technical problem with the heading itself, so the best place to discuss this is at the talkpage of the article or talkpage of Accessibility MOS: Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Accessibility. – Ammarpad (talk) 06:01, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

That copy is inappropriate for two reasons at least: It mixes actual list types, and WP:LISTGAP. If you want to have these be description lists, you would need to do something like:

Markup Renders as
;Indonesia
:* [[IPSC Indonesia]], international member of [[International Practical Shooting Confederation|IPSC]].
:* [[Indonesian Target Shooting and Hunting Association]], international member of [[International Shooting Sport Federation|ISSF]].
Indonesia

(Note I removed the colon directly after the term, instead placing it on the next line to make intent clear.)

The list gap piece is trivial when you've decided how to do your list; that's fixing it so that there are not spaces between the terms and descriptions:

Markup Renders as
;Indonesia
:* [[IPSC Indonesia]], international member of [[International Practical Shooting Confederation|IPSC]].
:* [[Indonesian Target Shooting and Hunting Association]], international member of [[International Shooting Sport Federation|ISSF]].
;Iran
:* [[Shooting Federation Islamic Republic of Iran]], international member of [[International Shooting Sport Federation|ISSF]].
Indonesia
Iran

I am on the fence about whether this is an appropriate kind of description list. I tend toward no, but you should invite others to discuss here (per WP:MULTI) from WP:Accessibility and/or WP:WikiProject Accessibility to see if they agree. --Izno (talk) 12:51, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

  • This doesn't appear to be a technical issue, just an editorial one (how to style an article) - there are better venues than VPT (the article's talk page, a MOS page, etc) to hash this out. — xaosflux Talk 13:21, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
    Not really. There are two technical questions and the style question even though asked only as a single question; the former two I answered, but regardless, we should not split the discussion now that we're having it here (so it could be moved wholesale if interested). --Izno (talk) 13:57, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
    @Izno: can you clarify the technical issues, along the lines of "What were you expecting and what was the actual result" ? — xaosflux Talk 14:02, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

@Izno: It looks like you're still getting a listgap in there, apparently MediaWiki gets confused when the last colon line before a semicolon line has nested lists. It's easy enough to work around though by including an empty colon line:

Markup Renders as
;Indonesia
:* [[IPSC Indonesia]], international member of [[International Practical Shooting Confederation|IPSC]].
:* [[Indonesian Target Shooting and Hunting Association]], international member of [[International Shooting Sport Federation|ISSF]].
:
;Iran
:* [[Shooting Federation Islamic Republic of Iran]], international member of [[International Shooting Sport Federation|ISSF]].
Indonesia
Iran

If you want to visualize listgaps, you could use something like User:Anomie/listgap.css. Anomie 12:17, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Interesting. I wonder if that's worth a phab task. --Izno (talk) 14:05, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
phab:T223277. --Izno (talk) 14:10, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

excessive captchas[edit]

For my last dozen or so edits I've been getting a captcha on every save, sometimes more than one, even though I'm not inserting any links. That wasn't happening earlier. Is something broken, is it a temporary setting because of a spambot running amuck somewhere, or what? Thanks. 67.164.113.165 (talk) 06:47, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Please provide diffs of the edits where this occurred; or at the very least, the names of the pages concerned. It might be that there is an external link elsewhere in the same section. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 10:17, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
There are external links in the same section, but you're only supposed to get a captcha if you try to add a link that wasn't already there. This was at WP:AN. 67.164.113.165 (talk) 01:03, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
Is the problem still present? Did you get a captcha making this edit? Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 01:19, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
I don't think I had a problem with that one, but it is intermittent. I was able to save this current edit without it (i.e. I'll change this wording if I get a captcha). 67.164.113.165 (talk) 02:07, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
Did it happen today on WP:AN? Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 02:09, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
I made a post on AN that inserted 2 new links, and I think I got 3 captchas. I made a later post that didn't add any links and don't remember with certainty whether there was a captcha for that one. 67.164.113.165 (talk) 02:47, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
  •  Confirmed. I just tried (as Suffusion of Yellow alt 5) to make an edit to WP:AN#Administrators preventing me from having RfC about an Administrative action containing NO added links, and got a captcha. But edits to other pages, also containing existing links, saved with no issue. Strange. I wonder what's special about that page. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 02:53, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
    @Suffusion of Yellow: if you can actually make the edit past the captch, and let us know the Diff, we can examine it in more detail. — xaosflux Talk 03:37, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
    @Xaosflux: I got a captcha for Special:Diff/896996976. I think it's the IPV6 address in {{ipvandal}}. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 03:42, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
    @Suffusion of Yellow: http://<an ip address> is "an external link", so that certainly could do it. — xaosflux Talk 03:45, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
    @Xaosflux: Except the external link was already on the page in that edit. The problem, I've figure out, is that http://<an IPV6 adddress> is not a valid URL at all. See RFC 2732. If I format the URL correctly, as http://[<an IPV6 adddress>], the problem goes away. So it looks like a bug in MediaWiki and a problem with {{IPvandal}}. Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 05:21, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
    This edit should fix {{IPvandal}} to generate a valid link. Anomie 13:04, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
    Wow, interesting. I have to sign off soon but I appreciate your looking into this. Thanks. 67.164.113.165 (talk) 03:49, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

G13 – "missing parameter"[edit]

I don't know what script or whatever determines whether a G13 is valid or not and gives a green OK if the last edit was more than six months before. So I don't know where to ask why it doesn't work in, for example, this case – it's not eligible, but the template reads "Missing parameter - Unable to calculate qualification to be deleted per WP:CSD#G13"? Can anyone shed any light? Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 18:34, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

I'd guess template talk:g13 to start. --Izno (talk) 18:58, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
@Justlettersandnumbers: It's the timestamp. Twinkle and YAAFCH take care of it, but this tagging was done manually, by just adding {{db-g13}} without a timestamp. The documentation for Template:Db-g13 should clear things up. ~ Amory (utc) 19:46, 13 May 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, Izno, Amorymeltzer! Yes, I should have thought to look at the template documentation, but had not expected to find script documentation there too. So, does any of that work on mobile? We have a new(ish) user who seems to have chosen G13 as a career path, and I'd quite like to be able to guide him/her towards a better way of going about it – if there is one, that is. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:06, 14 May 2019 (UTC)
Dunno what you mean about script documentation. I don't think either works well on mobile, they'd have to enter the ts manually I guess? ~ Amory (utc) 20:52, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Tech News: 2019-20[edit]

00:48, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

{{lang-he-n}}[edit]

I'm sorry if this is the wrong place to ask, but I've so far failed to get help elsewhere. I'd really appreciate if someone who's good with templates could take a look at my proposed changes to {{lang-he-n}} (See Template talk:Lang-he-n § Idea: select version without niqqud) and give me some comments. Thank you in advance! SNice.svg Psiĥedelisto (talk) 03:51, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Psiĥedelisto, I suggest raising that at Template talk:Lang, where at least two {{lang}} experts are active contributors. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 20:12, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

Firefox glitch?[edit]

It seems that anytime I use an indent/endash/bullet point, a space gets somehow added without me intending to. See 1 or 2 as an example. Using Firefox 66.0.2. YE Pacific Hurricane 23:48, 14 May 2019 (UTC)

@Yellow Evan: are you using WP:WikEd? Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 00:36, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
Yes. YE Pacific Hurricane 01:24, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Template help[edit]

Hi all,

I've recently been working on changing the {{32TeamBracket-WSC2}} template from it's current form to one that uses named parameters to complete scores such as at 2019 World Snooker Championship. There's been a few WP:ACCESS issues, however I believe these to be at least in part fixed.

The issue I'm having, is that this template won't work for all championships. Whilst the number of frames for the final is somewhat static (it's been best of 35 frames since 1979); the sessions can have less/more frames than what is standard. It's supposed to be 8-9-8-10, however, some years certain sessions have overrun, and had different amounts (such as in 2016, where the third session only played 7 frames).

My question is, how would the best way to make a table such as the one that shows here as fluid like this. What my thoughts were, to have a parameter for each session, that said how many frames were supposed to be played in that session, and it would make the table fit those amounts of frames.

Please let me know if this makes any sense, as I realize it's a confusing question. Best Wishes, Lee Vilenski (talkcontribs) 08:14, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

How do I login to the WIKI using the API?[edit]

Naturally specification https://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/API:Login closely studied. I tried both Method 1 and Method 2.

In the first case, he writes: "Fetching a token via "action=login" is deprecated."

In the second case: "Invalid CSRF token".

How do I log in to the MediaWiki API? Are there examples? MaxiFix (talk) 10:17, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

@MaxiFix: You can use
api.php?action=query&meta=tokens&type=login&format=json
to get a login token, but as for actually using it and logging in; nobody knows :-) We're all plebeians here. If I figure it out, I'll let you know. Good luck. Guywan (talk) 15:39, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
MaxiFix, Method 1 only works with Special:BotPasswords. And you need to use a user-agent to keep track of the cookies. Tokens are available as described by Guywan. But what is it that you want to do ? Because the usecase should dictate if you use method 1, method 2 or an OAuth grant. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 20:34, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Cropping an image[edit]

Is there a way to show only a cropped portion of an image in an article?

In Derivative work, I have added a captioned, already-existing image, File:Marcel Duchamp, 1919, L.H.O.O.Q.jpg. For this article, I want to crop and zoom that image to eliminate the large whitespace border around the image, to ... make the Mona Lisa's mustache more obvious. The existing image is 800x1033 in size, and I'd want roughly the center 70% of the image, about 560x723. I was hoping there's an image template that lets me supply arguments for cropping, whether in pixel units or percentages.

The brute force method would be for me to download the image, crop it myself, and upload it under another name, duplicating the justification information from the original; but I was hoping there was a more elegant solution. I think a technical solution already exists at some level on Wikipedia, as when I mouse over the link derivative work, the image in the popup has clearly been cropped a bit around the edges (at least in my browser). On Sober Reflection (talk) 17:50, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

Yes; the {{Annotated image}} template can do it. The instructions are at Template:Annotated image#Cropping. In most circumstances, it's actually preferable to upload a separate image cropped as appropriate, as it makes it easier to translate the article into other languages which won't necessarily have a local equivalent of the template. ‑ Iridescent 17:57, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
@On Sober Reflection: {{CSS image crop}} also has this functionality. — xaosflux Talk 17:59, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
Also, if you are dealing with a free image, you can easily crop on Commons with commons:Commons:CropTool. — xaosflux Talk 18:01, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
CropTool overwrites the existing image, though; as I understand the question, it's "how do I display only a portion of the image without either uploading a second version, or permanently changing the existing image?". ‑ Iridescent 18:09, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
Iri It only overwrites if you tell it to, and most of the time you shouldn't per c:COM:OVERWRITE. GMGtalk 18:37, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
Yup, it is easy enough to make a new file, and it copies all the description/licensing for you as well (example here). — xaosflux Talk 18:54, 15 May 2019 (UTC)
Regarding {{CSS image crop}}, you can try to do the reverse of this edit. But with a different pic, of course --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 19:15, 15 May 2019 (UTC)

From the plebs to the devs[edit]

script execution order[edit]

One would expect imported scripts to execute in a linear fashion (or at least I did), but this does not appear to be so. How does one force the execution order of scripts imported into common.js (or other)? For reference, this is basically what I'm doing in my common.js:

   importScript("A");
   importScript("B");
   importScript("C");

Regards, Guywan (talk) 13:19, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

So, you could do this by using the ResourceLoader function of Mediawiki--which incidentally you should switch to anyway, because importScript is deprecated. mw.loader.getScript provides a means to load a script, and also provides a callback for when loading is done; you'd basically daisy-chain the callbacks. Like this:
mw.loader.getScript('/w/index.php?title=User:Foo/bar.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript').then( function () 
{
  mw.loader.getScript('/w/index.php?title=User:Foo/shoosh.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript').then(function ()
  {
    mw.loader.getScript('/w/index.php?title=User:Foo/pap.js&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript');
  });
});
If I may ask, though; why do you want them to run sequentially? Writ Keeper  13:27, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
I don't, really. I was importing two scripts that added links to the Tools section of the sidebar, and sometimes the links would be in a different order. So, I was wondering if there was a way to prevent this. Thanks for the help! Guywan (talk) 17:57, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
@Writ Keeper: forgotten ping. Guywan (talk) 18:01, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

new lines[edit]

Also, completely unrelated: Is there a character code for inserting newlines into wiki pages? Regards, Guywan (talk) 13:19, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

@Guywan: it really depends on what you are trying to do, can you show an example of where you need a newline? The direct html code <br /> could be used in some cases, however we mostly try to avoid it in articles. — xaosflux Talk 14:34, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, Pong ball in flight.svg Xaosflux:. Hopefully this might clear it up.

Hello, World!

Hello,

Wikipedia!

In the second example, what invisible character did the parser read that told it to insert a line-break, and how can I insert it programmatically? Regards, Guywan (talk) 17:57, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
Programmatically in what context? A JS user script? You can put a new line through the standard \n character within a string. For example: the call new mw.Api().newSection("User:Writ Keeper/sandbox","test","test\n\ntest"); led to this edit, newlines included. Does that help? Writ Keeper  18:13, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
The parser wraps double \n\n characters as paragraphs. Single \n characters are included in the same paragraph tag. The "Magic" character is a \n.--Jorm (talk) 18:20, 16 May 2019 (UTC)
Thank you, @Writ Keeper and Jorm:. This helps very much. The problem was I only used a single \n, and not seeing what I wanted, assumed \n was stripped. Guywan (talk) 16:37, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Can someone generate a new list for Wikipedia:Templates with red links[edit]

Wikipedia:Templates with red links lists all templates containing red links, but has not been updated in eight years. Can someone generate a new list? The existing subpages (Wikipedia:Templates with red links/001 through Wikipedia:Templates with red links/150) can be overwritten. Cheers! bd2412 T 23:09, 16 May 2019 (UTC)

  • @Pppery: can do a database dump probably? -qedk (t c) 20:56, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
    @QEDK: What do I have do do with this? * Pppery * survives 20:57, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
    @Pppery: I saw you do a query over at Quarry, so I thought you could help BD2412 with fetching this. That was quick! --qedk (t c) 20:59, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Template:Infobox song contest entry[edit]

Template:Infobox song contest entry has double bold in parameter "Name" in embded version. Template is protected and only template editors and administrators can edit it. Eurohunter (talk) 08:35, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Template:Infobox song contest entry has no Name or name parameter. Click the "View source" tab to submit an edit request to a protected page. Clearly state which change you want. If you are thinking of the song parameter then the double bolding may be deliberate to indicate that the below headings are subheadings for song and not for the parent infobox. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:53, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

A "special" page is taking a very long time to load[edit]

I just visited my bookmarked site to check contributions by new users, but it is way too slow to respond for some reason; I reloaded the page a couple of times, even with a different ISP, but it didn't help.

The page is Special:Contributions; it responds instantly, but if I add these two parameters: contribs=newbie&target=newbies, it takes roughly 40 seconds to load, which is absurd.

If you'd like to help, please let me know if you can reproduce the issue: link with the said parameters added. Thanks. —RainFall 11:30, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

  • @RainFall:  Confirmed I got this error: PHP fatal error: entire web request took longer than 60 seconds and timed out. Must be quite an intensive request. Guywan (talk) 12:12, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
  • There's phab:T137478; filtering recent changes by new users is much faster ([6]). Galobtter (pingó mió) 17:25, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
The Special:Contributions&contribs=newbie&target=newbies worked fine until about 10 days ago when I started getting the same problem as User:RainFall. The phab task to remove this option as I see it is not a good idea despite the ability to get pretty much the same information via Special:RecentChanges. Nthep (talk) 17:51, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
Nthep, ok. so you have a patch to make the thing magically faster ? —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 21:27, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
I wish. Although the same link on Commons continues to be rapid. I accept that the load here is greater but something must have been changed to make the performance degrade so badly. Nthep (talk) 21:34, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

Talk pages consultation: Phase 2[edit]

All my contributions today say "Tag: PHP7"[edit]

It's annoying. Is there a fix?— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 21:19, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

@Vchimpanzee: Go to the beta features page in Special:Preferences and verify that a) "enable all new beta features by default" is turned off and b) "use php7" is turned off. That aside, using PHP7 is not a bad thing, and there isn't really a reason for you to be annoyed. --Izno (talk) 21:25, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
Izno, the beta mode has just been removed, and now gradually more and more people will be switched over. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 21:26, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
:O --Izno (talk) 21:27, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
Vchimpanzee, everyone is slowly being moved over to PHP7. This tag will be in place until everyone is moved over to php7. So this means you are in the group of the lucky few who have already moved over. Nothing to worry about. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 21:25, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
As long as the tag stops appearing eventually.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 21:39, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

What is "php7"? DuncanHill (talk) 23:01, 17 May 2019 (UTC)

See PHP. -- WOSlinker (talk) 23:06, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
I did and it seems to be written for people who already know what the article is telling them, rather than for people who don't. DuncanHill (talk) 23:08, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
mw:Beta Features/PHP7#I am a non-technical user. What does this mean?: "Hopefully nothing. This is about changing the software used to run the wiki's code. Ideally, you should notice no real difference." PrimeHunter (talk) 23:44, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
MediaWiki, the software that runs Wikipedia, is written in a language called PHP. For a while, there were two ways for servers to run the PHP code: the default engine called Zend and an alternate method called HHVM. Wikimedia used HHVM because it was faster. A few years ago, HHVM decided that it would only support a specific style of PHP after PHP version 5. MediaWiki is not written in that style, so the developers decided to switch back to Zend. Zend had also become faster than HHVM. This change was first made as a beta feature to make sure nothing broke, but is now being rolled out on a larger scale to test it with more users. TL;DR: What PrimeHunter said. --AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 23:55, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
Thanks, that's the sort of explanation I was looking for. DuncanHill (talk) 23:58, 17 May 2019 (UTC)
@Vchimpanzee and DuncanHill: If you look at the history of many pages (such as this one), the contribs of some users like Vchimpanzee (talk · contribs), your warchlist or indeed this diff, you'll see that "(Tag: PHP7)" has two links. Click the second one. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:39, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Talk pages consultation 2019 – phase 2[edit]

The Wikimedia Foundation has invited the various Wikimedia communities, including the English Wikipedia, to participate in a consultation on improving communication methods within the Wikimedia projects.

Phase 2 of the consultation has now begun; as such, a request for comment has been created at Wikipedia:Talk pages consultation 2019/Phase 2. All users are invited to express their views. Individual WikiProjects, user groups and other communities may also consider creating their own requests for comment; instructions are at mw:Talk pages consultation 2019/Participant group sign-up. (To keep discussion in one place, please don't reply to this comment.) Jc86035 (talk) 14:48, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

Caps lock[edit]

About a week ago, my computer started locking on all-capital letters when I capitalize a letter, but only when I'm typing in an English Wikipedia edit box--not in the edit summary box, and not in French Wikipedia or Wiktionary or non-Wiki sites. How do I turn off the automatic caps lock? (I'm using an iPad.) Loraof (talk) 15:41, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

This is a known issue, of which the cause has not been fully tracked yet. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 16:25, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Oops[edit]

Resolved

I managed to mess up the AFD that I started here Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of tragedy films and TV programs. If someone can fix my error it will be most appreciated. MarnetteD|Talk 17:56, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

What's wrong with it? --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 18:29, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
Nothing now. Thanks to QEDK for fixing it. MarnetteD|Talk 18:33, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
@MarnetteD: It was just an external link that you wikilinked accidentally, which broke the substitution, all fixed now! --qedk (t c) 18:47, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
D'oh! Thanks for letting me know QEDK. MarnetteD|Talk 18:51, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
That would just display brackets around the link: [this note]. The problem was mismatched brackets in [[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_tragedy_films_and_TV_programs&diff=next&oldid=895915235 this note]. When source code is displayed in the rendered page, always look for something mismatched. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:12, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

watchlist too short again[edit]

In order to see my watchlist for a date range of about a week or two, I had to edit the number of items to 10,000, which I did in the watchlist URL by editing "limit=1000" to "limit=10000". Apparently, this has been disabled, with efforts to set the limit to 10,000 or 5,000 causing a redirect to 1,000, resulting in my seeing only about 50 items. What it shows me should be 30 days, and I've tried 29.9 and 14, but no matter, it's showing only May 14-18. The earliest on May varies, but sometimes it's an item from 7:37a. The first time it was around 7:37, then it was later in the day, and now it's 7:37a. I tried editing "days=30" in the URL to 40, but that auto-redirected to 30, with the earliest item now being 16:43p on May 14.

Removing VP(T), which has a lot of edits, from my watchlist did not solve the date range problem.

I'm not bothered by the closing off of one kludge, but we need something, so what solution or kludge can I try now?

Nick Levinson (talk) 19:46, 18 May 2019 (UTC)

The max is 1000, AFAIK, per the Prefs->Watchlist screen. When I go away for a week, I have to go through my Watchlist namespace by namespace. It's yet another way of making life a little more difficult for WP power users. T10681 is related, in that it also makes it harder to catch up after multiple days away. – Jonesey95 (talk) 20:30, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
What would be nice is if the watchlist URL accepted a parameter like &offset=20190512223000 in its query string, the same way that user contribs and page histories do; even better if it also allowed &dir=prev. That way, when you have finished going through your watchlist, you would note the date and time time of the most recent edit that you have examined, and on return from hols, set the offset to the date and time that you had reached, and work forward from that point. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 21:48, 18 May 2019 (UTC)
Support all of the above. At the very least let's get rid of the limit for extended confirmed users or for the non-Javascript watchlist. I'm fairly sure I used to be able to see more than 1,000 pages before the new watchlist was rolled out. DaßWölf 04:12, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
@Daß Wölf: No, the "improved version of the Watchlist" moved from an opt-in beta feature to an opt-out live feature in July 2018; the 1000-change limit was introduced in August 2017. --Redrose64 🌹 (talk) 09:52, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

please fix Category treatment in watchlist (kludge is to exclude that)[edit]

I found a kludge, not my favorite and with some possibilities not tested: Leaving settings at 1,000 items and 30 days and with no active filters, open the Namespaces menu and select to exclude Category. You don't even have to exclude Category Talk.

If filtering is to include Category only, I get May 15-18, but if I want articles and Category only, then I get May 14-18, but if I want articles only, I get April 18 to May 18. That means that including Category alters the date range for one or more other namespaces. Most of my tests produced April 20-May 18. The difference between April 18 and April 20 may be the 1,000-item limit, so that's probably not a fault.

But Category should not be truncating my watchlist. If it must, then please add an explanation to the page so we'll know to select namespaces accordingly.

Nick Levinson (talk) 00:12, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

I reported this as a bug to Wikimedia's Phabricator. Perhaps the other suggestions in this topic should be reported there, too; I'll leave that to other people at their discretion. Nick Levinson (talk) 01:09, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
Are you seeing edits like this "(diff | hist ) . . Category:Heist films‎; 17:51 ‎Gjs238 ( talk | contribs‎ ) (Category:Japanese heist films added to category)"? When I'm watching a category and someone adds/removes multiple pages from it, they all show up in the watchlist, not just the most recent change (regardless of whether I'm watching the pages which were added/removed from the category), so when someone makes a real flurry of edits like that it can swamp the watchlist. Perhaps you've watchlisted some very active categories and those changes are not showing up but still counting towards the 1,000 limit somehow. DaßWölf 04:33, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Wikimedia Foundation Error[edit]

Resolved

I've been getting this error intermittently for the last hour or two. It seems to happen on some pages a lot more than others. For instance, I got it once on VP(T) while leaving a reply in the section above, but after getting my last edit saved I can't access Virtual reality sickness at all anymore. Oddly this only seems to be a problem in one browser, despite the page showing a 503 code (server error). (I wasn't logged in on the other browser I tried.) Anyone else seeing this? DaßWölf 04:21, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

  • Not just you. --qedk (t c) 08:04, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
  • It has been happening for days, on and off. - Sitush (talk) 08:06, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
    • I've seen it frequently in the last half hour, here and at Wikidata. The explanation on the error page about complicated templates doesn't fit the current error. If the revision history of this page loads several times without an error, and it hasn't changed, it shouldn't start producing error messages. Yet it did. BlackcurrantTea (talk) 08:29, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Can confirm, happened to me in id.wikipedia as well. Vulphere 10:00, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
  • The issue is closed as resolved, if the issue persists (after the timestamp of the resolving comment only!), reopen the Phab ticket. --qedk (t c) 13:37, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

Magic word[edit]

Hello everyone, I'm from ckbwiki. I added this mediawiki page, but it doesn't work properly! Now what should i do to create {{SHORTDESC:description}} (The magic word) on our Wikipedia? Thanks! --ئارام بکر (talk) 17:26, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

@ئارام بکر: see phab:T184000 and related tasks. ckbwiki does not appear to have the shotdesc parser hook enabled (w:ckb:تایبەت:وەشان). — xaosflux Talk 17:36, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
@Xaosflux: but why? English wikipedia how did that? Why other wikipedias can't? I want to add the magic word in same way that enwiki did that. Any way? --ئارام بکر (talk) 19:04, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
@ئارام بکر: Using and changing the appropriate letter-code descriptions on Wikidata will do the same thing. Your wiki probably does not need the short description magic word. --Izno (talk) 19:46, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
@Izno: I know, but that gadget is more useful and easy than we go from ckbwiki project to wikidata and repeat again and again always. --ئارام بکر (talk) 23:04, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
Unless I'm missing something, that gadget makes a LOCAL description, it doesn't update the normally used wikidata entry. — xaosflux Talk 23:42, 19 May 2019 (UTC)
@ئارام بکر: I'll look into making the gadget work on other wikis (so you can edit the wikidata description without going to wikidata) while working on User talk:Galobtter/Shortdesc helper#Export to wikidata?; should be easy enough. Galobtter (pingó mió) 16:17, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Page download speed[edit]

The code for Wikipedia:Database reports/Indefinitely blocked IPs has a size of 1,784,147 bytes, and as it's basically a big chart with lots of text, I expect that the complete page size isn't significantly larger than that. (It has no images at all, except the little up-and-down arrows, and images present on all pages, like File:Wiki.png and File:Wikimedia-button-for-homepage.png.) Conversely, http://proceedings.esri.com/library/userconf/fed16/papers/fed_86.pdf has a size of 27,717,239 bytes. Can anyone guess why the first page takes a lot longer to load than the second page? I just discovered the second page a few minutes ago; it's not as if I had it cached. And while Esri is an important player in its field (software for Web-mounted GIS), I suspect that their servers' speed and capacity are significantly less than Wikipedia's, with Alexa rankings of #7,072 and #5 respectively. And it's not just my computer; go to Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 158 and look for "Indefinitely blocked IPs" to see Galobtter's comment. Nyttend (talk) 21:06, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

PS, please note that Esri's self-hosted GIS sites tend to be mounted on arcgis.com, so I don't think the nature of the site would require them to have significantly faster servers. Nyttend (talk) 21:16, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

@Nyttend: Does the page still take a long time to load while you are logged-out? --AntiCompositeNumber (talk) 01:28, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
Interesting: it loads a lot faster, even though I have no scripts installed except one to hide a link in a certain infobox and another to give me the traditional "You have new messages" bar. Could it be the skin? I use Monobook. Nyttend (talk) 01:39, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
Nyttend, when you are logged in, you get a fully dynamically generated page, when you are logged out, you get a partially cached pre-rendered page which is slightly faster, but still not as fast as a fully pregenerated thing like a PDF. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 10:53, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
Nyttend, they don't really compare. One is a website, the other a pdf. One is generated on the fly based on wikicode, the other is pre generated. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 10:38, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
Hm, okay; I didn't realize that there was a difference from the server's perspective. I figured it sent me a bunch of 1s and 0s (about 14¼ million for the webpage and 221.7 million for the PDF), and once they'd all downloaded, the page was ready. Nyttend (talk) 11:03, 20 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Both of them took negligible time for me, which means, it's a problem with your internet connection, browser, intermittent server-side problems, OS, or a combination of them (not an exhaustive list). --qedk (t c) 18:09, 20 May 2019 (UTC)

Tech News: 2019-21[edit]

13:03, 20 May 2019 (UTC)