# Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 136

## Article count jumps by 100,000 in a day...

I asked a question about the fact that the total number of articles increased by 100,000 overnight (Statistics page) on the Main Page talkpage and was told to bring it up here. I've included the entire conversation for context. I'm particularly interested if anyone can confirm what Dragons flight is saying. If the article count is indeed manually updated every now and then, how often does such an update take place? I've been closely following the article count since February 2013, and this is the first time I've seen the article count increase so dramatically. Anyway, I'd be very grateful for any light you can shine on this matter. Thanks! AmericanLemming (talk) 21:04, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

The Main Page lists the total number of articles on the English Wikipedia, and normally that increases by 1,000 articles a day, give or take a few hundred. However, between yesterday and today the article count jumped from about 4,753,000 to about 4,848,000. That's an increase of roughly 95,000 overnight. Either the counting methodology has been changed to include tens of thousands of articles that were simply being left out previously, or some software bug has started counting non-mainspace pages as articles. I know this talk page isn't really the best place to bring this up, but I'm not really sure what the proper forum for such a question is; for all I know the folks at WMF are responsible for the Statistics page, which even admins can't edit. AmericanLemming (talk) 19:36, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
I'd suggest bringing it up at the Village Pump. 331dot (talk) 20:14, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
The running tally is somewhat approximate. It attempts to increment / decrement the count every time an article is added / deleted. Occasionally though it gets confused and misses one. The fix is to periodically update the tally by counting every article in the database, which is more accurate but too slow to use routinely. My guess is that the jump was triggered by such an update, though I don't know that for sure. The more accurate offline stats have shown 4.8 million articles since December [1]. Dragons flight (talk) 20:16, 29 March 2015 (UTC)

Main Page talkpage

Main Page is cached many times daily at https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Main_Page. The four caches currently listed early today don't have the jump. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:19, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
The last cache shows 4,752,922 (6:04:37 Mar 29, 2015, whatever timezone the wayback machine dispays). The current number shown is 4,847,959 (21:39 Mar 29, 2015 UTC) – an increase of 95,037 since the last cache, so the jump has yet to make it to the cache. —Quondum 21:41, 29 March 2015 (UTC)
I believe such an update occurs automatically once a month ([see https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T68867]). HTH, Elitre (WMF) (talk) 14:27, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Possibly relevant; of the new page_ids created over the last 30 days, the range of 450000 ids from 45720000-46169999 looks decidedly odd, containing as it does 448500 user_talk pages (99.6%) and only 479 main namespace articles. - #TB (talk)
Red herring. User:MediaWiki message delivery created these user pages while delivering messages about account renaming between 21:28, 19 March 2015 (User_talk:-Y-) and 04:27, 20 March 2015‎ (User talk:ＮｉＫｅ). - TB (talk) 16:07, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
These statistics had many errors over the years and previously, it had to be manually fixed by running a maintenance script. The script is now run once a month starting from this month onwards. See also [2] [3] [4] Glaisher (talk) 16:13, 30 March 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the pointers, everyone. I get the sense that although no one can definitively tell me that the drastic jump in article count is legitimate, it is more likely to be legitimate than not. It's probably not a bug or human error. And if what Glaisher says about this article-count fixing script is true, then I expect that in the future the adjustments it makes to the article count will be much, much smaller, owing to it running so often. I'd imagine that this kind of manually fixing hasn't been done for years, which is why the true article count is so much higher than the automatically generated article count. Running the script monthly should keep the displayed article count much closer to the true count. AmericanLemming (talk) 04:01, 31 March 2015 (UTC)
Yes. Setting the caching issues aside, the jump in the article count is "legitimate". The count before March 29th was "wrong" and then became "right" on March 29th (at 5am, BTW). I'm not sure which article-counting bugs still haven't been fixed, but presumably there are some, and so the count will again drift off of the "real" number over this month. On April 29, the count will be recalculated again, and then become "right" again. (If you're interested in the details of how articles used to be counted in the past, and how they are counted now, see m:User:Dcljr/Article counts.) - dcljr (talk) 22:42, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
I've added the following note to the Wikipedia:Good article statistics and Wikipedia:Featured article statistics pages: "The unusually large increase in the number of articles in March 2015 was caused by a maintenance script running for the first time on 29 March. The purpose of the maintenance script was to correct the automatically updated count, which was missing roughly 95,000 articles. Since the maintenance script will run on the 29th of each month from now on, the reported count should stay much closer to the true count." AmericanLemming (talk) 17:40, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
Sounds good to me. - dcljr (talk) 07:33, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

## What's going on with XTools?

Looked up a few topics above and they said it was fixed, but it's down. Lately it's been sluggish and I like using it to run an audit on where my strengths and weaknesses are. Buffaboy (talk) 00:22, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

What page was this on? I can take a look at the server. Nakon 04:13, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
Never mind, it's working now. Buffaboy talk 14:42, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

## Massive issue

I am using a mobile with browser. No app. When I try to edit, the page Will not load! This only worked by switching to desktop mode. This is huge!!! DangerousJXD (talk) 08:03, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

It appears to be fixed. Maybe I was overreacting. I would like an explanation as to what happened. The edit mode version of the page wouldn't work. I just wouldn't load. –DangerousJXD (talk) 08:10, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
There was some brief(?) outage, especially affecting the api and maybe other things. I think it is resolved now. Aude (talk) 08:56, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
Information about outages normally will be made available on https://wikitech.wikimedia.org/wiki/Incident_documentation once investigated. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 10:56, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

There are still problems. I've had these since yesterday. On mobile, for about half the articles, the sections don't collapse. Great Wall of China is one where, if you visit on mobile (or you fake your user agent on your desktop), then the sections won't collapse. Gary (talk · scripts) 16:22, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

I have no such problems. Perhaps you got a partial javascript stuck in your browser cache or something. Try hitting the refresh button on the same page twice, that usually makes it bypass the cache. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 22:22, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
Continued on your talk page if you don't mind. Gary (talk · scripts) 14:41, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

## Inter-language links are misbehaving in my (old?) skin

Although my Preferences ( Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-rendering ) are set to MonoBook, the inter-language links appear different than if i use &useskin=monobook. Any idea why or how?!

Fwiw, by "different" i mean that the links are now shuffled, since they include the target article's name and are thus sorted by that name, instead of the language name (!)

Thanks. -- Jokes_Free4Me (talk) 11:27, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

I cannot reproduce. Maybe something didn't load correctly one of the times. Try to clear your entire cache. Does it still happen? If so, please give an example article with full url for both cases. Do you have "SidebarTranslate" enabled at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets? Do you really see and sort by the target article's name and not the English name of the target language? What is your browser? PrimeHunter (talk) 12:12, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
Unfortunately, i cannot reproduce it with IE8 or Portable Firefox 15.0.1 either. :-??
What's it got to do with the cache, though? I've opened Special:Random to check pages i've never loaded before, and i'm actually using "Private Mode" in Firefox, so what kind of cache would be there? Specific version is 12.0, if you think it's relevant.
Anyway, what i'm asking is if there has ever been any need for some piece of code that displays the target page name besides the language ( [5] ), and later some other process is tasked with hiding it... -- Jokes_Free4Me (talk) 13:26, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
Do you still see the problem there? Many parts of the interface are made with files which may be cached by your browser so they don't have to be reloaded each time you visit a new page. The language names and foreign page names are page-specific but they may be rendered with cached code. If you use the mentioned gadget (you didn't answer) then they are sorted with JavaScript in MediaWiki:Gadget-SidebarTranslate.js. tinypic.com doesn't load for me and you didn't name examples so I'm still unsure what you actually see. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:50, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
Note: I don't know how "Private mode" works and whether it stores things like JavaScript during a session. Firefox 12 is from 2012. Can you install a recent version on your computer? PrimeHunter (talk) 14:11, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
Oh, sorry, didn't see the question about the gadget. And good catch, it's from that one: if i disable it, the issue goes away. I'll try to investigate this further, now that i know what causes it. -- Jokes_Free4Me (talk) 17:36, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
The screenshot shows that SidebarTranslate displays and sorts by the tooltip which is only supposed to be seen when you hover over the links. Something may be incompatible. Gadgets aren't always tested with all combinations and MonoBook + Old browser may have caused a problem for SidebarTranslate. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:39, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
From what i read at the gadget's page, that's partly how SidebarTranslate is supposed to work: get the language name from the tooltip, i.e. remove the page name and display what's left. Guess the RegEx that does the splitting into relevant parts isn't doing its job with my dated JS engine, and the rest is just by-design. -- Jokes_Free4Me (talk) 16:05, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

## Surprising font of Persian texts

I have a criticism about the recently chosen font for Persian texts on the English Wikipedia (with the Perso-Arabic alphabet). It's an atypical, strange, and surprisingly bold font! Here's what I'm talking about: (Tehran in Persian: تهران - Tehrān‎)

I suggest using the standard font of Tahoma, instead of the recently chosen one.

Rye-96 (talk) 18:59, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

Unless you enabled web fonts in the Universal Language Selector, font selection is handled by your browser and it uses the fonts provided by your Operating System. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 22:15, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

## old revisions, at least articles, showing new templates or other replacements

Either an old revision (at least of an article, a talk page, etc.) that has a template either should show the template as it existed at the time of the revision or the old revision's heading box (where it says "[t]his is an old revision of this page, as edited by ...") should be edited to add something like "[t]emplates are present-day revisions, not necessarily those in use at the time of this page's revision." Apparently, I can't edit or even find the name of that box, so I assume someone else has that knowledge. An example is at this old article revision, which should show this template's old revision instead of what it is showing. I didn't test for images but the same might be true of those and of any other replacement content. I didn't test a talk page or in other namespaces. Nick Levinson (talk) 23:27, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

uselang=qqx shows the message is MediaWiki:Revision-info. It includes the link "permanent link" which explains that templates are shown at their most current versions. I think that is enough and the interface message should not be expanded. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:41, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
The destination does explain that, but the message context on the revision page says "[t]he present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision", thus implying that the link is about how the URLs work, and not on currency of replacement content. Thus, it lacks clarity on point, needed for editors. Thank you for showing the name of the box. I've opened a discussion at MediaWiki talk:Revision-info#propose edit to clarify about replacement content, so replies should go there, since I now assume that the other solution, displaying the contemporary replacement rather than the latest, is too complicated to program to be worth doing. Nick Levinson (talk) 01:07, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
This seriously spooked me when a contested (= removed) {{subst:PROD}} claimed that it was invalid due to an AFD. Actually the AFD was started after the PROD was removed. But I don't think that this can be fixed at all, let alone easily, otherwise it would already have been done. Maybe you can find an old WONTFIX bugzilla number on phabricator: (+2000 yields the task number), it should exist. ;-) –Be..anyone (talk) 01:49, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
It's probably impractical to fix the old revision view to display the templates as they were at the time; even if it were possible, that would be requested as a software feature request - see Wikipedia:Bug reports and feature requests.
As to the possibility of modifying the header, all what needs to be asked here is which system message that is; this question was answered - MediaWiki:Revision-info. Any discussion about changing it should probably be made in a better place, where more users will be seeing it. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 08:52, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
The bug is phab:T2851, and is in fact still open (although it doesn't look like it is about to be fixed anytime soon). — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 12:15, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

## Invalid day of death?

Anyone knowns why an "invalid day" appears below the date of death in the Nino Manfredi infobox and how to fix it? Thanks in advance. --Cavarrone 12:38, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

He was apparently born on the 22nd and not the 32nd of March. -- zzuuzz (talk) 12:43, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict) Fixed. His date of birth was set to the 32nd of March, which is why the error message displayed. These error checks have been added to the age templates quite recently, which is why the error message is only showing up now. See Category:Pages using age template with invalid date for instructions on how to fix some common cases. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 12:45, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
Many thanks! Cavarrone 13:00, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

## Elevation at any given point on Earth

Hi. As you might know, Google has a somewhat accurate database of the elevation at any given point on Earth. There are also many sites online that uses this database, to derive the elevation, when presented with coordinates or other location input. Can this feature be made available to Wikipedia? Or is such a feature already existing here? For example, as an option, can the widely used coordinates template also be made to output the elevation of the given area? Ping: Magnus Manske, Kolossos. Thanks, Rehman 05:31, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

Or possibly an enhancement to GeoHack, so you don't get the added overhead unless the reader clicks on the coords? ―Mandruss  05:51, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
It would be good to have the elevation displayed in infoboxes, so having the feature just in GeoHack doesn't seem optimal. One fairly easy way to make these elevations available in articles would be to use a bot to add them to Wikidata, for all Wikidata entities that have coordinates. Perhaps better would be to do it on Wikidata through an extension that caches the data, so that it doesn't require actual bot edits for the system to work, but doesn't require looking up the data from Google every time the page is parsed. I'm not sure how difficult writing such an extension would be, however. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 12:32, 5 April 2015 (UTC)
It'll be possible to do this easily in Wikidata once we have support for units. This is being worked on by the development team right now but will still take a bit. If you want to track progress you can follow phabricator:T77977. --Lydia Pintscher (WMDE) (talk) 11:00, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

## Synonyms Available in Wikipedia

[copied post removed] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shanus444 (talkcontribs) 08:55, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

This was also posted to Wikipedia:Village pump (idea lab)#Synonyms Available in Wikipedia. Please only start a discussion in one place. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:21, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

## Revdel reason length limitations

The "other/additional reason" textfield accepts only 100 characters on the admin revdel interface, however the field in the database where the reason ends up can accommodate 255 bytes. Is this a deliberate design decision or a bug? MER-C 13:16, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

## Tech News: 2015-15

15:42, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

## Slow response and load time?

Has anyone else problems with very slow page loading of Wikipedia (and Commons) pages at the moment? I can easily get a cup of coffee, while a page loads. Other internet sites with lots of content work fine. My provider is O2 in Germany. Maybe some remaining problems from the server maintenance? GermanJoe (talk) 16:51, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Never mind, apparently whining fixed the problem :). As of now the lag is gone. GermanJoe (talk) 17:26, 1 April 2015 (UTC)
I've also been experiencing unbearably slow load times over the past 1-3 days, and it's still ongoing. Hopefully my whining will fix it as well. --Bongwarrior (talk) 17:35, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
I've been having the same problem. I see a "Waiting for bits.wikimedia.org..." message for a ridiculously long time while the page is attempting to fully load. It's still there; I had time to draft, re-think, and re-draft this message in the meantime. 2602:306:8019:581F:C04A:172:4C19:B890 (talk) 14:51, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
It has been hit-or-miss for me. It was bad yesterday afternoon, fine last night, and bad again today. --Bongwarrior (talk) 20:40, 3 April 2015 (UTC)
I've pinged someone about this, but I hope it has resolved itself by now anyway. Thanks to those who posted their locations, ISPs and/or IP addresses. That is particularly helpful information for decoding these problems. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 05:04, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the report (and thanks for escalating it, Whatamidoing (WMF)). I don't see anything unusual in our front-end performance dashboards, which makes me think that these are most likely isolated cases. One thing you can do to help us troubleshoot this further is to try browsing the site in Privacy mode. This will have the effect of logging you out, which will tell us if MediaWiki might be having some specific problem rendering JavaScript for your account.
The reason this problem happens at all is something we have to fix. Our JavaScript is render-blocking by (bad) design. What this means is that we allow JavaScript code to modify the page before it is shown to the user. We do this by telling the browser not to render the page until some JavaScript code has executed.
We load JavaScript from an external domain, bits.wikimedia.org. Guess what happens when bits.wikimedia.org is unreachable for some reason? You guessed it: no one can see any content. This problem is called Frontend SPOF (hey, red link!) or "single point of failure" (because the failure of just bits.wikimedia.org is enough to effectively take all wikis down, as far as users are concerned). You can read more about this phenomenon in this blog post by Steve Souders.
I am hoping to have a fix for this sometime this coming quarter. (Making the JavaScript not block rendering is easy, but there are various extensions that depend on this behavior, and we need to go over each one and find a viable alternative on a case-by-case basis.) You can track progress at T95152. --Ori.livneh (talk) 06:11, 6 April 2015 (UTC) (wearing my Wikimedia Foundation hat).
Thanks to you and Whatamidoing and whoever else looked at this. I'm not sure if someone fixed it or if it fixed itself, but I haven't had any problems for a few days now. --Bongwarrior (talk) 01:46, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

## VisualEditor News #2—2015

Did you know?

With Citoid in VisualEditor, you click the 'book with bookmark' icon and paste in the URL for a reliable source:

Citoid looks up the source for you and returns the citation results. Click the green "Insert" button to accept its results and add them to the article:

After inserting the citation, you can change it. Select the reference, and click the "Edit" button in the context menu to make changes.

Since the last newsletter, the Editing Team has fixed many bugs and worked on VisualEditor's performance, the Citoid reference service, and support for languages with complex input requirements. Status reports are posted on Mediawiki.org. The worklist for April through June is available in Phabricator.

The weekly task triage meetings continue to be open to volunteers, each Wednesday at 11:00 (noon) PDT (18:00 UTC). You do not need to attend the meeting to nominate a bug for consideration as a Q4 blocker. Instead, go to Phabricator and "associate" the Editing team's Q4 blocker project with the bug. Learn how to join the meetings and how to nominate bugs at mw:Talk:VisualEditor/Portal.

### Recent improvements

VisualEditor is now substantially faster. In many cases, opening the page in VisualEditor is now faster than opening it in the wikitext editor. The new system has improved the code speed by 37% and network speed by almost 40%.

The Editing team is slowly adding auto-fill features for citations. This is currently available only at the French, Italian, and English Wikipedias. The Citoid service takes a URL or DOI for a reliable source, and returns a pre-filled, pre-formatted bibliographic citation. After creating it, you will be able to change or add information to the citation, in the same way that you edit any other pre-existing citation in VisualEditor. Support for ISBNs, PMIDs, and other identifiers is planned. Later, editors will be able to improve precision and reduce the need for manual corrections by contributing to the Citoid service's definitions for each website.

Citoid requires good TemplateData for your citation templates. If you would like to request this feature for your wiki, please post a request in the Citoid project on Phabricator. Include links to the TemplateData for the most important citation templates on your wiki.

The special character inserter has been improved, based upon feedback from active users. After this, VisualEditor was made available to all users of Wikipedias on the Phase 5 list on 30 March. This affected 53 mid-size and smaller Wikipedias, including AfrikaansAzerbaijaniBretonKyrgyzMacedonianMongolianTatar, and Welsh.

Work continues to support languages with complex requirements, such as Korean and Japanese. These languages use input method editors ("IMEs”). Recent improvements to cursoring, backspace, and delete behavior will simplify typing in VisualEditor for these users.

The design for the image selection process is now using a "masonry fit" model. Images in the search results are displayed at the same height but at variable widths, similar to bricks of different sizes in a masonry wall, or the "packed" mode in image galleries. This style helps you find the right image by making it easier to see more details in images.

You can now drag and drop categories to re-arrange their order of appearance ​on the page.

The pop-up window that appears when you click on a reference, image, link, or other element, is called the "context menu". It now displays additional useful information, such as the destination of the link or the image's filename. The team has also added an explicit "Edit" button in the context menu, which helps new editors open the tool to change the item.

Invisible templates are marked by a puzzle piece icon so they can be interacted with. Users also will be able to see and edit HTML anchors now in section headings.

Users of the TemplateData GUI editor can now set a string as an optional text for the 'deprecated' property in addition to boolean value, which lets you tell users of the template what they should do instead (T90734).

The special character inserter in VisualEditor will soon use the same special character list as the wikitext editor. Admins at each wiki will also have the option of creating a custom section for frequently used characters at the top of the list. Instructions for customizing the list will be posted at mediawiki.org.

The team is discussing a test of VisualEditor with new users, to see whether they have met their goals of making VisualEditor suitable for those editors. The timing is unknown, but might be relatively soon.

### Let's work together

• Can you translate from English into any other language? Please check this list to see whether more interface translations are needed for your language. Contact us to get an account if you want to help!
• The design research team wants to see how real editors work. Please sign up for their research program.
• File requests for language-appropriate "Bold" and "Italic" icons for the character formatting menu in Phabricator.

-Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk), 17:50, 3 April 2015 (UTC)

The template data editor used to be intuitive about 3 or 4 months ago, since that time it deteriorates towards total unusability. –Be..anyone (talk) 22:30, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
I haven't tried to do anything signifiamt with it for weeks. What would you like to see changed/fixed/un-broken? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 05:09, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

## Vital articles link in the Recent changes

I have proposed it here: MediaWiki talk:Recentchangestext#Vital articles link. Any comments welcome. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 00:22, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

## Associated namespace

For about three years now, Special:Watchlist has had an "Associated namespace" checkbox which means that if you have selected e.g. Template namespace, it will also display changes in Template talk: namespace. The URL query string parameter for Template namespace is namespace=10 but what is the additional parameter for "Associated namespace" being selected? When I select it manually and click , the entire URL is reduced to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Watchlist (I guess it's now using POST instead of GET) which is not just useless for bookmarking, but Firefox periodically complains "Document expired" and I need to go through all the selections again. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:46, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Watchlist?namespace=10&associated=0 vs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Watchlist?namespace=10&associated=1TheDJ (talkcontribs) 09:23, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

## Date errors

There are two date errors (refs 122 and 127) in Endocrine disruptor due to missing days, i.e. only year and month is given. How can this be fixed without just inventing a day (e.g. by adding -01)? --Leyo 09:01, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

|date=2008-07 is not a supported date format, so you would have to use |date=July 2008, which would be consistent with a number of existing examples in the article. (By the way, Wikipedia:Help desk is better suited for usage questions like this.) ―Mandruss  09:17, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
OK, thanks. But is there a good reason why this format is not supported by the template? --Leyo 11:15, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
Because it's ambiguous. This was discussed at Help talk:CS1 errors and other places. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:26, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
What might it be confused with? The number of the week? I had a quick look at the archives but I couldn't find any mention. Alakzi (talk) 11:34, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
If a reader sees 2008-09, should they read it as September 2008 or 2008-2009? ―Mandruss  11:36, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
See Is YYYY-MM an acceptable date format? (Feb–Apr 2014). Warning: it's a deeply unsatisfying experience to read this RFC. – Jonesey95 (talk) 05:12, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

@Mandruss: I see your point. But anyway, why doesn't Template:Cite web automatically convert e.g. 2008-09 to September 2008? That would be the easiest to read. --Leyo 19:18, 6 April 2015 (UTC)

@Leyo: Because the template wouldn't know if 2008-09 means September 2008 or 2008–2009. GoingBatty (talk) 23:31, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
But it doesn't do it with unambiguous dates such as 2009-03-14 either. That's what I don't understand.
BTW: commons:Template:Information converts e.g. | Date = 2008-09 to September 2008 (or in any other language). --Leyo 23:59, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
@Leyo: Are you saying you don't understand why Template:Cite web doesn't automatically convert to another format? YYYY-MM-DD is a perfectly acceptable format, so it doesn't need to be converted. GoingBatty (talk) 01:17, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
Also, how would the citation template know whether to output "14 March 2009" or "March 14, 2009"? --Redrose64 (talk) 16:49, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

## Stats.grok broken again

I think I should let the teccies here know thst the stats tool is broken again. It has failed to capture the stats for 1 April which of course was AFD, which means that the DYK stats for that day cannot be added to the statistics page. Can someone fix this please? 12:10, 4 April 2015 (UTC)

### stats.grok.se not working

I can't get the last 3 days page views on any article? Is anybody else aware of a problem here? Nathan121212 (talk) 11:28, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

## Article disappeared without being deleted

I went to update Na dialect, and when I hit 'save', I got a message that revision #0 does not exist. I checked the deletion log, and there's no listing. Could someone restore it, please? — kwami (talk) 01:06, 7 April 2015 (UTC)

•  Done; reverting yourself twice resets the page and fixes the error. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:08, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
(edit conflict) This appears to have just occurred on all pages. Script error of some sort, lasting for about 15 seconds. Very brief, however. Someone might have pushed a bad commit at WMF HQ or something. 01:09, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
Weird. Thanks! — kwami (talk) 01:09, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
I've had this happen a few times; a WP:NULLEDIT cleared it. Alakzi (talk) 01:10, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
It was discusssed at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 135#Weird deletion display error. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:15, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
Interesting. They better fix it. This has the potential to cause great damage. 01:39, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
The error message is MediaWiki:Missing-revision which has made false claims for weeks in most cases. It seems time we change it to say something like "This page could not be generated, probably due to a server problem. Clicking Purge may fix it." If we only do it when $1 is 0 then I guess there will be very few cases where the original message was right. We can change it back when the bug is fixed. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:03, 7 April 2015 (UTC) Some debug code has been added to the live website to figure out what is causing this. Please do keep reporting such issues with as accurate a time as possible —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 09:26, 7 April 2015 (UTC) The search "This is usually caused by following" currently reports these 17 mainspace cases listed with UTC times: 17 cases of error  Astronomical catalog of the page named "Astronomical catalog" does not exist. This is usually caused by following an outdated history link to a page that has been deleted 5 KB (37 words) - 22:40, 29 March 2015 Leo Gregory revision #0 of the page named "Leo Gregory" does not exist. This is usually caused by following an outdated history link to a page that has been deleted 4 KB (37 words) - 01:01, 30 March 2015 Cork Airport revision #0 of the page named "Cork Airport" does not exist. This is usually caused by following an outdated history link to a page that has been deleted 31 KB (37 words) - 19:53, 6 April 2015 DuBois, Pennsylvania of the page named "DuBois, Pennsylvania" does not exist. This is usually caused by following an outdated history link to a page that has been deleted 21 KB (37 words) - 00:55, 7 April 2015 Denville Township, New Jersey page named "Denville Township, New Jersey" does not exist. This is usually caused by following an outdated history link to a page that has been deleted 44 KB (39 words) - 00:19, 3 April 2015 Grid The revision #0 of the page named "Grid" does not exist. This is usually caused by following an outdated history link to a page that has been deleted 4 KB (36 words) - 01:01, 6 April 2015 History of Nickelodeon the page named "History of Nickelodeon" does not exist. This is usually caused by following an outdated history link to a page that has been deleted 33 KB (38 words) - 19:34, 29 March 2015 Peking Union Medical College page named "Peking Union Medical College" does not exist. This is usually caused by following an outdated history link to a page that has been deleted 6 KB (39 words) - 01:01, 6 April 2015 Thighmaster revision #0 of the page named "Thighmaster" does not exist. This is usually caused by following an outdated history link to a page that has been deleted 3 KB (36 words) - 19:00, 6 April 2015 The Breakfast Club (radio show) named "The Breakfast Club (radio show)" does not exist. This is usually caused by following an outdated history link to a page that has been deleted 4 KB (40 words) - 01:01, 6 April 2015 Michael J. Tyler #0 of the page named "Michael J. Tyler" does not exist. This is usually caused by following an outdated history link to a page that has been deleted 11 KB (38 words) - 01:41, 3 April 2015 Scott Arnold revision #0 of the page named "Scott Arnold" does not exist. This is usually caused by following an outdated history link to a page that has been deleted 422 B (37 words) - 19:46, 29 March 2015 Terrorism in Yemen #0 of the page named "Terrorism in Yemen" does not exist. This is usually caused by following an outdated history link to a page that has been deleted 29 KB (38 words) - 01:01, 4 April 2015 Timarcha lugens revision #0 of the page named "Timarcha lugens" does not exist. This is usually caused by following an outdated history link to a page that has been deleted 7 KB (37 words) - 19:47, 31 March 2015 Pseudomugil paskai #0 of the page named "Paska's blue-eye" does not exist. This is usually caused by following an outdated history link to a page that has been deleted 901 B (38 words) - 22:01, 27 March 2015 Ministry of Transport of the page named "Ministry of Transport" does not exist. This is usually caused by following an outdated history link to a page that has been deleted 19 KB (38 words) - 01:01, 6 April 2015 List of schools in Honduras page named "List of schools in Honduras" does not exist. This is usually caused by following an outdated history link to a page that has been deleted 540 B (40 words) - 01:01, 4 April 2015  Some of them don't currently display the error message. Others may be missing from the search results. Google found List of entertainers who died during a performance where I see the error now, but it's not in the above search. If you want to track current cases then you could add a tracking category to MediaWiki:Missing-revision. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:13, 7 April 2015 (UTC) 15 seconds? A few hours later and it is still displaying the error message on the article you've suggested. When I originally reported Forever, no edits were made and it sorted itself out on its own. Is it just a bug or something else? Simply south ...... time, deparment skies for just 9 years 13:36, 7 April 2015 (UTC) ## best professional mediawiki skin? Hello, I want to create a wiki for my lawfirm. Looking for a skin that: 1. looks very professional, (think http://www.bsp.lu/) but is 2. widely used enough that I can get support with the skin if needed. 3. also I would like drop down menus, also like http://www.bsp.lu/ Thank you. Twolegalsystems (talk) 13:37, 7 April 2015 (UTC) I would recommend to take a look at mediawikibootstrapskin.co.uk, they have Bootstrap based skins there and you should be able to get support and customization for these. --Sitic (talk) 19:50, 7 April 2015 (UTC) ## Issues with maths font Hey all, just passing this on. I can pass on a screenshot if you need it (for agents – Ticket:2015040310016461) For OTRS, Mdann52 (talk) 16:36, 7 April 2015 (UTC) I am a visually impaired person who uses 'High Contrast Black' for my Windows colour scheme. I have no choice but to use this scheme if I am to be able to read text on my computer. My problem is certain types of text being used by some articles. An example of this problem is contained on the following page: The example of text I want to take issue with is reached by first clicking on item 3: Voting, then read down to the heading 'Counting The Votes; Setting the quota'. The actual text immediately follows the words '...given by the formula' and immediately before the words '...where the quota is an integer'. I'd tell you what the text says, except I can't actually read it because it shows under Windows 'High Contrast Black' as just a mess. I saw exactly the same problem on a page entitled 'Net migration' where all the formula's were written in the same type of text. I can't, to my knowledge, change anything on your page to correct this. I certainly can't change my colour scheme. This is something that only Wikipaedia can correct, but how you do that is down to you guys. One thing is for sure, as it stands, I am being excluded from the information contained in this type of text, and I have no idea how widespread across your site this is occurring. I've never seen it before, so it must a fairly recent introduction. Yes this is a problem with math. Unfortunately math is still not a first class citizen on the web. We have made some progress in this regard, but for many platforms it is still sub-par. I have no problems with the "invert colors" option of my Mac however. (not sure how high contrast black works on Windows). I've send you a mail to forward the results to me, perhaps I can help out finding a workaround for the user by setting a different mathjax option or something in his preferences. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 17:46, 7 April 2015 (UTC) @TheDJ: I've already mentioned this to them, they said that maybe we should consider changing the default. I'll check with them they are happy for me to pass it on to you - just something I need to do with regards to all OTRS communications, as they are covered by the non-public data policy, I cannot pass them on unless they consent to me doing so. Mdann52 (talk) 18:33, 7 April 2015 (UTC) We are not ready to switch the default yet. We can't break 10% of math for the sake of the 0.5 % of people who have trouble reading that math. If we did that for every accessibility problem, the website would become unreadable unfortunately :( We are looking into 'accessibility' preferences that can also be used by anonymous users. But it's a side project by a few people who are interested in such problems. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 18:40, 7 April 2015 (UTC) ## Ogg file stuttering Someone left a message on my talk page suggesting that several of the audio files I had uploaded were stuttering, and are sometimes truncated, proposing that I add 0.5-1s to both the beginning and the end of the file. Beyond the fact that many of these files are pronunciations are are only about 1s long total, this seems like a kludge. It seems to me that the right solution would be to either improve the load behavior of the file so that the stuttering and truncation don't happen at all or, if we're sticking with the kludge - have the silence added server-side with the canonical version preserved, so that it can all be removed at once if the problem is fixed in the future. If this is the wrong forum, I apologize, let me know where to take this. 0x0077BE (talk · contrib) 21:25, 6 April 2015 (UTC) To some degree, yes this is a thing. It takes a bit of time for the decoder to start up, especially with such a fuzzy codec as Vorbis is. If your computer is slow, and the player is badly written, it will probably be a lot worse even. The cutting off is also something that happens with badly authored players. The wikimedia player is TMH, and it is actually a JS wrapper around an assortment of potential playback engines, so figuring out what Quicksilver was using will be important to seeing where the actual player issue is located. Then you also have to consider that the audio chip (with energy saving these days) needs to start up and shutdown, and perhaps even an external amplifier. All having been primarily designed to playback continuous audio, not 1 second fragments. So yes, as a general rule: The landscape of playback technology is bad, and you probably shouldn't rely too much on the first 300ms and the last 300ms (300ms being more or less the time it takes to start or stop and the action actually materializing in audio signal) being present. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 17:39, 7 April 2015 (UTC) I'm using primarily Mozilla SeaMonkey on Linux. I'm not sure how my installation of SeaMonkey produces sounds from all Web sources, although I know that it uses the VLC plugin for some, which is fairly lame compared to the sound support one finds in Microsoft Windows or on Mac OSX. It's an HTML5-capable browser, and it seems to reproduce HTML5 AV content flawlessly, but it has difficulty with the startup of short OGG audio files on Wikimedia. Others have commented on the ends of short audio clips being truncated with Mozilla Firefox, without specifying their operating system or hardware, though I don't recall seeing that problem with SeaMonkey. Since the combinations of hardware, operating systems, browsers and AV plugins is vast, my thought is that we can't optimise for all of them, but by padding audio files with 500 ms to 1000 ms of silence at both ends, we can at least give most site visitors a good chance at a better experience. — QuicksilverT @ 18:13, 7 April 2015 (UTC) @ Quicksilver, when you click on the player's "Menu" option, then go to the gears and click that, it will show you what kind of playback technology it is using. For native Mozilla on linux, I would suspect is should be able to use Native HTML5, which is probably the best option if it is available. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 18:49, 7 April 2015 (UTC) My concern here is that the padding of silences breaks the abstraction of the file itself - taking as an example the pronunciation of the word bream, the "actual" data is the part where the word is being spoken, and nothing external will change that. The purpose of the prepended and appended silences is an implementation detail that overcomes the limitations of various players. Since these two things are orthogonal, it would be better not to tie them to one another by modifying the canonical representation of the files themselves. If, until players improve, it is necessary to prepend and append silence, I think maybe it's preferable to do so server-side if possible. Of course, if this is not practical for some reason, a bot can probably be created that pads silences in audio files, but again it doesn't seem like the right design, conceptually. 0x0077BE (talk · contrib) 12:08, 8 April 2015 (UTC) ## Unknown, pervasive, unstable bug with editing Some of the time when I start to edit source I am not able to use the up or down keys (and only the up or down keys)—pressing them does nothing. No reaction. Other times this is not the case and they work as expected. I have no idea what is causing this issue and it is disturbing me greatly. Any ideas? (and, no, it's not the keyboard). 00:55, 7 April 2015 (UTC) (if it's worth anything the keys appear to always work 100% when I create a new section). 00:58, 7 April 2015 (UTC) Which browser and operating system is this about? Also wondering if browser plugins or add-ons come into play here - trying without them and with a fresh profile might be worth a shot. --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 13:21, 7 April 2015 (UTC) I cleaned my user-scripts, saved, exited Firefox, restarted, tested. Everything worked fine. Ok, I thought, so it must be one of the user-scripts. I started adding them back again and, lo and behold, after adding all of them back one-by-one the issue...failed to re-appear. I'm still at a loss for what the problem was, but I've not experienced it since. Very, very strange. Probably not actionable, unfortunately. I'll let you know if it comes back up. 18:35, 7 April 2015 (UTC) the source of the issue is the "autocomplete" gadget from hewiki (which you never brought back - hence the disappearance of the issue... the comment in your vector.js says "doesn't seem to work" - i can attest that it *does* work on enwiki). personally, i think this annoyance is fair price to pay for this super-useful gadget (basically, it detects when you enter [[ or {‎{ and then it autocompletes the ‏‎‎article name of template name as you type, in a little drop-down box that appears on the far end of the editing window). there is a workaround: once the cursor get "stuck", hit escape once to "unstick" it. admittedly it's an annoyance, but IMO the benefit of the gadget far outweigh it. peace - קיפודנחש (aka kipod) (talk) 20:40, 7 April 2015 (UTC) ## Wikipedia Server Clock DST for Europe occurred on Sunday, March 29, but it looks like the Wikipedia server clock has yet to be adjusted. It is currently 9:34 PM here, and they're eight hours ahead of me when both them and the US are in or out of DST, which means it's 5:34 AM for them, but the server clock is saying 4:34 AM. - Amaury (talk) 04:34, 7 April 2015 (UTC) Test edit Nakon 04:39, 7 April 2015 (UTC) Isn't the server time in UTC? If so, it is correct. Regards, Orange Suede Sofa (talk) 04:42, 7 April 2015 (UTC) The server clock is always in UTC, which doesn't observe daylight savings —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 07:31, 7 April 2015 (UTC) Consider also, that if the Wikipedia clock did observe daylight saving, somebody would need to decide which hemisphere it should follow, and on which weekend it would change. In Europe, when clocks go forward by one hour, they stay the same in Australia; but a week or two later, they go back. Six or so months later, the Australian clocks go forward, and three or four weeks after that the European clocks go back. This means that at the start or end of the year, when it is 12:00 noon in London, it is 23:00 in Melbourne, Vic - that is, they are 11 hours different; and in mid-year, when it is 13:00 in London, it is 22:00 in Melbourne - 9 hours different. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:11, 7 April 2015 (UTC) Not to mention the havoc it would wreak on edit histories. –xenotalk 18:56, 7 April 2015 (UTC) Though if he likes that he could set personal preferences to display local time. But that is so confusing I think it ought to be not allowed. ~ J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 23:52, 7 April 2015 (UTC) ## Idea I am not sure but somebody would have already asked it. Can there something be done to Teahouse so that unanswered questions have some notice (either in bold or a tag on it like {{unanswered}}) for those questions which has not been answered yet? Sometimes, I see some user's question goes down (under other questions:) and other were actually answered quickly but not his/her aGastya ✉ let's have a constructive talk about it (: 05:01, 7 April 2015 (UTC) Try WP:BOTREQTheDJ (talkcontribs) 07:32, 7 April 2015 (UTC) Have you discussed it at WT:Teahouse to see if there is any support for the idea or whether it has been discussed previously? Nthep (talk) 12:19, 7 April 2015 (UTC) @Nthep: Yes I had asked it over there, but no answer! aGastya ✉ let's have a constructive talk about it (: 15:03, 7 April 2015 (UTC) Previously posted at Wikipedia talk:Teahouse#Idea, subsequently posted at Wikipedia:Bot requests/Archive 63#Unanswered questions, please see WP:MULTI. --Redrose64 (talk) 08:23, 8 April 2015 (UTC) ## New editing option? On the editing screen, I suddenly saw a "Citations" option next to "Show changes"! What's going on? Is it a new feature? Or is it just me? Or what? --Mr. Guye (talk) 23:41, 7 April 2015 (UTC) I still see "Cancel" next to "Show changes". Is this reproducible, i.e. consistent? ―Mandruss 04:19, 8 April 2015 (UTC) It's made by enabling "Citation expander" under the Editing heading at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:11, 8 April 2015 (UTC) ## Issues with random page Hey all, Someone mentioned to me the other day that when they used random page feature on Safari, the history of the pages they visited didn't save - it just saved lots of instances of "special:Randompage". Is this intentional, or a bug? Thanks, Mdann52 (talk) 18:34, 8 April 2015 (UTC) @Mdann52: Bug in Safari, see Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 129#Random article and browser history. It seems to be recording the URL that you sent, rather than the URL that you received. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:41, 8 April 2015 (UTC) ## New article template I don't know if this is the place to ask this question or not, but a few issues with the new article template seem like they would be a minor fix and would be helpful for editors. • Why does the {reflist} not automatically appear as {reflist|30em}? (With just reflist, the references can be as long as the article with in-line citations.) • Why does {DEFAULTSORT:} not appear? (I was totally unaware that this effected the sort of categories. Thankfully another editor added it to some 30 articles for me, but it should not be something that a new editor has to find out after the fact.) • Why is there not a drop down or key that one can choose an info box from? (I understand that an infobox is optional, but it seems odd to have to save your file and add it after the fact when the information is more easily input from the beginning.) Thanks for your help. SusunW (talk) 16:41, 8 April 2015 (UTC) 1. Because some people have voted against it on the talk page of Reflist 2. There is always some information missing. This is not a problem, we are a work in progress. The VE editor has it somewhere in the "page options" 3. You should try using VE, it has a nice template inserter. You still have to know what to look for though, there is autocomplete, but we have thousands of templates. Hope this helps —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 17:06, 8 April 2015 (UTC) There is no way for {{reflist}} to detect the number of citations in the list. If there is only one reference, then {{reflist|30em}} will split it into columns. And {{reflist|20em}} is more appropriate for Shortened footnotes. -- 17:22, 8 April 2015 (UTC) I think it would be better to use the plain <references /> tag for brand-new articles created through the Article Wizard. Since they changed the fonts (years ago) {{reflist}} without any additional parameters is just a more expensive method of getting <references /> into the article. Also, phab:T53260 is about supporting column formatting directly in the <references /> list, and it might be possible for that to use autoformatting options that can't be done in a template. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:45, 8 April 2015 (UTC) Maybe I can save this before I get stuck in another 20 minute loop telling me there is an edit conflict which will not allow me to even leave the page. If you mean by VE , Virtual Editor program, no thanks. Tried it, it is even more user-unfriendly than this version of Wikipedia. I couldn't even sign my posts. It seems to me it is no wonder people give up editing. Writers, researchers and readers are not all programmers, nor do they wish to be. I don't understand most of your answers. A simple it isn't possible would communicate more than a list of programming options or telling me to look through thousands of options. I've been on Wiki hide-n-seek for months and many of the pages that tell you in the contents that the answer you seek is there, do not contain the answer at all. Thanks anyway. SusunW (talk) 17:59, 8 April 2015 (UTC) Just so you do not think I am randomly complaining look at this page Wikipedia:Categorization of people#Creating a new category Though it says creating a new category, it tells you everything thing you need to do before you create a category, but not how to do it. Apparently programmers and writers just do not speak the same language. Not your fault, nor mine. We just are not communicating. I do appreciate the effort. SusunW (talk) 18:05, 8 April 2015 (UTC) Oh, I think we have a misunderstanding here. Most documentation is historically a community and volunteer driven effort. Anyway, much of the complexity is because people have asked for complexity. If you want to configure hundreds of things, then at some point something becomes unusable for common folk. PS. The page you link to with regard to categories are all community rules. Technically, categories 'exist' (forever) as soon as you've used them (once) on a page (but they might be empty and/or not have a wiki description page). Also, where did you encounter VE on pages where you are supposed to sign ? I suspect that this shouldn't be happening, it's not made for having discussions. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 19:17, 8 April 2015 (UTC) I truly don't know one writer who wants the system to be any more complex than it is. It's way more complicated than most editors I know want it to be. :) FYI Categories don't exist unless you create them. They remain red on the bottom of an article unless you can figure out to create them, with trial and error because the instructions don't actually give an answer. I did manage to figure it out, no help from the help page. The VE page was a discussion page for a project, clearly it didn't function like that and the great programmer gods in the sky suggested that it wasn't designed for that. (I actually posted on the page that "maybe the programmer gods in the sky can explain it" and someone did.) In my utopia, editing would be simple and straightforward. Instructions would be concise and clear. Again I thank you for your time. SusunW (talk) 23:41, 8 April 2015 (UTC) "They remain red on the bottom of an article unless you can figure out to create them" This is a common misunderstanding. The category technically exists independent of the page that is attached to it, there can be pages inside a red category, there just isn't a page present for that category. Any requirement for a category not being red, is a community rule. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 06:49, 9 April 2015 (UTC) ## Gif issue Armbrust fixed it by allowing the image to keep its original size, adding an edit description of "fix, it looks like image isn't rescalable". Actually, the image itself *is* resizable (i just checked at w3schools), but wikimedia's mechanism of sizing images (using cached versions for specific w+h combinations) isn't working in this case. -- Jokes_Free4Me (talk) 11:23, 4 April 2015 (UTC) • That's... odd. Is it fixable? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:53, 5 April 2015 (UTC) If you open the actual failed thumbnail, it reports error 137, which usually means it took longer than 15 seconds to finish resizing the image (it has 300 frames...). So reduce frames, reduce w x h, or turn it into an actual movie instead of a GIF. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 22:53, 5 April 2015 (UTC) • Not sure that's the right link; elves? Anyways, it appears the only solutions to that are all things that a) I could not do myself and b) would end up causing the current FP to be delisted / replaced, so I guess the "no downsampling" trick is it for this and other gifs in the future. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:45, 5 April 2015 (UTC) No idea why DJ linked to T5258, but i found out that 137 = Out of memory. Beats me why they can't actually include this explanation in the error page. :-?? -- Jokes_Free4Me (talk) 00:32, 6 April 2015 (UTC) He may have meant phabricator:T84842, phabricator:T72296, or phabricator:T25063 (still open and filed by him, so probably likeliest), from a quick search. --MZMcBride (talk) 16:41, 9 April 2015 (UTC) ## Guide for editors to deal with mobile version functionality? I'm having trouble finding a guide for editors to the current function differences in the mobile version. Basically an explanation of what the mobile version does with wikicode that is different from what the desktop version does with it, a catalog of what features don't presently work in the mobile version (navigation templates and certain table formatting are two that I've found on my own), and tips for editors to work around these to maximize page compatibility or at least flag a page as better viewed through the desktop version. However, I can find no relevant link from Help:Mobile access (not even an acknowledgment there that pages may render differently, let alone how to deal with it) and searching is proving impossible given the "mobile view" link that appears at the bottom of every page. postdlf (talk) 15:18, 4 April 2015 (UTC) The "Mobile view" link may make it hard to search with external search engines like Google but our own search engine ignores the interface messages. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:06, 4 April 2015 (UTC) That's good to know, but not proving helpful here. Maybe it's on meta somewhere? postdlf (talk) 22:31, 4 April 2015 (UTC) Thats an interesting question Postdlf. The Mobile web page on Mediawiki, explains some concepts around MobileFrontend, and how the mobile web experience works. You can also test new features on beta mode, which you can enable from settings. Through testing, and with hints from mobile users like yourself, we are able to work on enhancing functionalities, something which is usually updated; where a catalogue might not be efficient for a long term. In addition, eventually the target is to have a mobile experience that is comfortable enough for mobile use. Maybe, instead of flagging for "best viewed on mobile" we can use phabricator, to report issues on mobile to help enhance it. What device and browser do you normally use? Thanks for the interesting question :-) --Melamrawy (WMF) (talk) 00:01, 5 April 2015 (UTC) Given that the mobile version is, what, six years old now? And there are still common page elements that don't work... So I'm very unclear on what you're considering the "long term" to be here. I don't even have any way of knowing what's a feature and what's a bug because I don't know what choices have been made about what specific code to support or not or how to process it. We should have a summary from the developers of 1) features that have been deliberately omitted that will never be included, 2) features that developers intend to include but have not yet, and 3) features that are supposed to be already working but aren't because of known bugs that have not yet been corrected. Without that, WP editors have no way of maximizing a page's functionality and visibility of all its elements regardless of whether it's viewed through the mobile or desktop version other than through trial and error. We should have that support. postdlf (talk) 15:47, 5 April 2015 (UTC) This is just of the top of my head. Feel free to put it somewhere for further refinement What doesn't work on purpose right now and probably will never work • User and site javascript What doesn't work, because it requires another form of interacting with the page • navboxes • Section level maintenance templates • Page title coordinates (phab:T91481) • Page top emblems like FA, GA etc What works badly due to requiring different way to interact with pages • Very large tables • File pages What doesn't work due to technical challenges • Some audio and video embedding • Deprecated HTML style attributes like border, bgcolor on tables etc • Hundreds of templates that simply never considered the fact that they would have to work on a small screen TheDJ (talkcontribs) 22:39, 5 April 2015 (UTC) Thanks, TheDJ. It's shocking to me that the developers apparently have never put this together and don't seem to even think it would even be useful, let alone necessary. So we should be using CSS attributes in tables rather than html, to ensure greater compatibility with the mobile version? Though I've seen that not all CSS parameters seem to work either, nor does the sortable table class. And why are navboxes special? The mobile version doesn't ignore all templates, so what's different about navbox code? How do we determine what wikicode in a page loads depending on whether it's being processed through the desktop or mobile version? postdlf (talk) 16:12, 6 April 2015 (UTC) Based on this, I believe that you'll want to ask User:Edokter your questions about navboxes. Even if there were no technical difficulties, the value might be limited. Take a look at these navboxes. On my laptop, the first navbox-with-children set fills a full screen. Imagine that it were constrained to a smartphone. How long would it take to scroll through it (assuming that Module:Navbox were re-written to make it wrap onto a small screen in the first place)? Do you realistically think that you would be able to find what you wanted? (I'm not convinced that navboxes are used much by non-editing readers anyway. Perhaps someday, someone will track the links and let us know.) Also, it's probably "thousands" rather than "hundreds" of templates that need to be redesigned. Many of them are visible, but awkward. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 16:57, 6 April 2015 (UTC) We don't want to gut or abandon features we rely upon in the desktop version just to make the mobile version easier to deal with. But assuming you have a point about navboxes being far less practical when viewed on a small screen, it seems that there are work-arounds we could be using right now to both make them visible in the mobile version and make them less unwieldy, by coding in alternate mobile versions of navbox templates that don't use {{Navbox}} (if compatibility issues with that master template's CSS is the problem), and that have fewer, higher priority links so as to take up less viewing space (though defaulting to collapsed would also help with that). But as I mentioned above, I don't know how to make different versions of a page load depending on desktop/mobile version viewing. That there are thousands of templates that need to be redesigned is a rather compelling reason for the overview I was asking for on how to make wikicode mobile version-compatible, based on the current state of the mobile version's functionality. postdlf (talk) 17:30, 6 April 2015 (UTC) I agree that a significant amount of work needs to be done. I have suggested before that the WMF coordinate a program similar to the structured data cleanup work at Commons, so that problems can be identified, tracked, and fixed by community members. I don't know if it will happen, but if you have any ideas about what kind of support it would take (maybe a class on when and how to use CSS?), then please feel free to ping me. I'm not sure that I agree that many non-editing readers actually rely upon navboxes. I'd like to see some evidence that a lot of people scroll to the end of pages (kind of unlikely: a lot of people read just the lead) and click on a collapsed box (unlikely) and find what they want there (possible, but only if you make it that far). Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:52, 8 April 2015 (UTC) "It's shocking to me that the developers apparently have never put this together": It's not been really asked for before. And it is constantly changing as well. Also the average user cannot really fix it anyway. "So we should be using CSS attributes in tables rather than html [...] not all CSS parameters seem to work either, nor does the sortable table class", no because, because you should be using CSS declarations instead of deprecated HTML attributes and a sortable table isn't a CSS class (classes are HTML, which can be referenced in CSS rules). But that has nothing to do with mobile, you should be doing that anyway, it's just even more broken on mobile. No for mobile you should be using CSS rules and CSS statements in style blocks, but you cannot, because it isn't possible with wikicode yet. And this paragraph shows why the average users shouldn't care. It's too difficult to get all this right, without turning everyone into a web and/or PHP developer and large parts of it are simply not fixable yet. Work on it if you are capable of it, or trust that other people will fix it eventually. "And why are navboxes special?", Well, first; they aren't really content. They are a really verbose, structured form of navigation for related content. Written in an unstructured technology, in a style that won't fit (technically and editorially) a small screen. Anyone with a little bit of UI design insight will see that it is hopelessly broken (even barely usable for desktop in my opinion). It's not directly fixable, because it's basically the completely wrong system authored in the complete wrong technology. Any slightly better system you will make, is still using the wrong technology. Anyway, the majority of remaining problems require fundamental changes to the foundations of the wiki, which are being worked on, but simply happen VERY slowly (lest we have a user revolt because some template suddenly starts adding 1 space char extra on desktop or because some form of interactivity is considered to be too 'Facebooky'). This is also why it's not that easy for editors to help with this. It's not hopeless, we are making new technology like WikiData, Lua, MMV and even VE that are making changes to the foundations that at some point will enable us to close the gap, but it's slow none the less (and often unpopular, because it is change). As a mobile developer myself (and one that even worked on the first mobile web version of English Wikipedia) I'm really freaking impressed what they have been able to do so far with the mess that is Wikipedia and wikicode. it just requires a few more years to really get there, because our sites are simply put very unique. And spray painting race stripes on the car simply won't make it a Nascar, no matter how many people think that all that is missing is the race stripes. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 19:00, 6 April 2015 (UTC) Probably good advice. Other than when I've occasionally been involuntarily redirected to the mobile version when using my iPad (which is really annoying, particularly when you've manually typed in the URL), I've completely ignored it up until a couple days ago when I happened to see my wife looking at a particular article on her phone and I had to wonder "where the hell's the rest of the content?" I'm happy to go back to pretending the mobile version doesn't exist if the support just isn't there for me to do otherwise. postdlf (talk) 20:07, 6 April 2015 (UTC) • @TheDJ: Actually, i would agree that it is getting "too 'Facebooky'"... And how exactly does a new threading mechanism (or even two different ones) help with improving the handling of CSS, or with prototyping better ways for the presentation of content? But when the editors are asking for a road-plan, so they know not to focus on stuff that will get deprecated, then i believe you should no longer insist that "it's not that easy for editors to help with this" -- they're not asking for ways to help with foundations, but for details on what will those foundations support. -- Jokes_Free4Me (talk) 20:34, 6 April 2015 (UTC) What you are saying is: "How does landing a man on the moon help me ? I just want a non sticky pan and you are building a rocket." Which is fine. It just doesn't mean that the developers can promise recognizing the qualities of teflon and marketing it to a popular markt, before they have flown a rocket. Cleanup is gradual, don't focus on the specifics. If it is REALLY problematic, then at some point we will automate something to solve it or change the software, and maybe we will ask for assistance with volunteers. It's like consists of vs composed of" an endless task, because the majority of people simply won't know, no matter how much time you spend trying to correct or educate them. That doesn't make it a useless task or a pointless task, but it does mean you have to know what you are doing and not just randomly replace stuff with a designated alternative. That might be worse than leaving the old stuff in. The web standard has become a living standard for a reason. Conformity to set rules was breaking it more than non conforming is pushing it forward to not being broken. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 09:52, 7 April 2015 (UTC) Mobile editor is pretty much useless when it comes down to it. Where is the Undo button?!!! Why are talk pages so damn hidden? Where is the user talk page button? Why aren't you sent direct to the user page? Why are users contributions so hidden? And the watch list is super confusing, just make it more like the desktop version... EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 17:51, 6 April 2015 (UTC) I believe the answer to your question about the Undo button is "in same place that it's in the desktop site: in your browser". VisualEditor (available as a Mobile Beta feature) has an undo button, but the wikitext editor does not. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:52, 8 April 2015 (UTC) So one last comment: This is basically much like WP:PERF. Don't worry about it, but don't do stupid things; Get involved if you really want to help out and aren't interested in writing articles anymore, because it will consume you :) —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 17:30, 7 April 2015 (UTC) TheDJ, this is an almost shockingly optimistic view of what it's like to work with the Wikimedia Foundation mobile team. In my experience, any change to the mobile interface (MobileFrontend) is nearly impossible. The extension is a scope-creep abomination that's closely guarded by a small cabal that's insistent on ensuring that mobile users are treated as second-class citizens, with a hobbled interface and missing content. Instead of acting as a mobile front-end, the extension tries to implement myriad unrelated functionality as a means of bypassing community consultation and scrutiny. Instead of falling back to the working desktop site, the interface often just pretends as though the user's request is insane (why would a user ever want to visit a talk page or view category links?!). Of course, the mobile team has "easy" answers to these issues such as completely re-implementing the idea of groups of pages (Gather), never mind that the we already have watchlists, categories, and even a very similar extension called Collection. Or when looking at the site-wide set of permissions we have that control who can edit pages (cf. Special:ListGroupRights), the mobile team has no issue (re-)inventing its own separate permissions system in order to bypass the standard system and enforce a view that every user must log in to be able to edit. These parts of the design philosophy of the mobile front-end are completely contrary to Wikimedia's values. And the mobile team is quickly accumulating technical debt that we'll someday be forced to mop up. All of this has been pointed out repeatedly, and in some ways, it's difficult to blame the mobile team for taking advantage of its lack of oversight. In my opinion, both the Wikimedia community and people like Erik at the Wikimedia Foundation really need to step up and join others in saying that the current behavior of the mobile team is harmful and unacceptable to Wikimedia. (cc: postdlf) --MZMcBride (talk) 14:10, 9 April 2015 (UTC) ## What happened to the UNDO feature?!? I mean, what's the deal with all those unneeded nbsp's? -- Jokes_Free4Me (talk) 00:56, 7 April 2015 (UTC) Let's start with pinging and work from there. I bet one of them can either puzzle it out or bug some more techy people. --Izno (talk) 02:37, 7 April 2015 (UTC) More likely some browser extension that the user is using that is mangling the textarea. Remember, undo is nothing more than, 'load a previous old version in the current edit screen'. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 07:30, 7 April 2015 (UTC) Probably. Also, it's likely that the user is on a Windows box. Macs seem to provide better support for these things. How the non-breaking spaces get added (I assume that they are present) is probably due to sloppy typing on my part: option-space (the Mac command) is easy and the difference isn't visible. Why they get converted, rather than left alone, by subsequent editors, is beyond me. I occasionally see the same thing when User:Doc James edits a talk page. If he and Ugog Nizdast have the same browser/OS/extensions/whatever, then we might be able to narrow down the list of possible causes. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:59, 8 April 2015 (UTC) I had no idea I did this. Let me try to recall what happened that day. I use Firefox and of late, it has been giving trouble only on Wikipedia by taking almost forever to load. I think that's what happened regarding my double post. I don't know if that has anything with my preceding undo action though. I checked all my recent undos and no sign of this problem. The only extension I have is this recently-installed "Wikipedia references creator" which I never tried out; I've just disabled to see if it helps my loading problem. My OS is Gentoo by the way. -Ugog Nizdast (talk) 08:42, 9 April 2015 (UTC) • While not identical, I'll note there was a similar report of something funky going on over at User talk:Jackmcbarn/editProtectedHelper#Changing from hex to rgb in signatures? where syntax was being changed. It was assumed based on the information we could gather that there was something funky going on with Parsoid, and I'm not sure if the same thing happened here or not but it would probably be a good idea for someone to look into it. At least that is my take on it, opinions of others may vary and one of those people I pinged might know the answer without digging too much. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 12:46, 9 April 2015 (UTC) ## Category:Articles using football box collapsible parameter assistantreferees Looking at the 2012–13 in German football article I noticed it was listed in the non-existend Category:Articles using football box collapsible parameter assistantreferees, as are 146 others. I had a look at Template:Football box collapsible to see whether it comes from there but was not able to trace it down. Does anybody know what is happening there? Thanks, Calistemon (talk) 12:15, 9 April 2015 (UTC) I don't know why Secret Agent Julio added the category but the code is near the end of Template:Football box collapsible: {{#if:{{{assistantreferees|}}}|[[Category:Articles using football box collapsible parameter assistantreferees|{{PAGENAME}}]]}}. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:30, 9 April 2015 (UTC) I dropped User:Secret Agent Julio a line asking him whether he intended to do this. Thanks for the quick clarification, Calistemon (talk) 12:46, 9 April 2015 (UTC) It's due to either this edit or this one. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:48, 9 April 2015 (UTC) I did not intend for the category to display, as I thought I had hidden it (using "main other"). I guess I was wrong. Apologies, as it was unintended. I now have removed the code from the template. Sorry about the confusion. SAJ (T) 17:14, 9 April 2015 (UTC) ## My own vector.js ang vector.css Hello, what the participants can see the unusual styles JS / CSS? For example, I want to Wikipedia pages are displayed in white lettering on a black background instead of black text on a white background. Thanks.--Парис "Анима" надаль (talk) 13:20, 9 April 2015 (UTC) White on black is not as easy as green on black. At Preferences, go to the "Appearance" tab, select "MonoBook"; then go to the "Gadgets" tab, select "Use a black background with green text" and save. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:35, 9 April 2015 (UTC) ## Wikilink in a footnote not expanding In At Freddie's#Notes and 7½ Cents#Notes there can be found footnotes that contain a wikilink that refuses to become a blue-link. I have no idea if this is an actual bug or some minor incompetence on my part. Choor monster (talk) 15:44, 9 April 2015 (UTC) The pipe trick doesn't work inside of <ref>...</ref>. --Izno (talk) 16:03, 9 April 2015 (UTC) Thanks very much! I did not know it was called the Pipe trick, just monkey-see-monkey-do on my part all this time. Choor monster (talk) 16:16, 9 April 2015 (UTC) ## is there a function to determine if page X is in category Y? Originally posted this at Wikipedia:Help desk, where it was recommended I ask here. I could've sworn I'd seen some template which did this, but now I can't find it and can't find an answer in the magic words or parser functions help pages (unless I'm missing something). The idea: I'd like to be able to run a basic function to say if page X is in page Y, and to specify true and false actions. For example (and I'm totally making up the terms): {{#IFEQ:{{PAGEINCATEGORY|April|Months}}|yes|positive|negative}} → "positive" {{#IFEQ:{{PAGEINCATEGORY|April|Dubstep}}|yes|positive|negative}} → "negative" Possible? — Rhododendrites talk \\ 16:14, 9 April 2015 (UTC) ## Wikibase API changelog Where might one find the Lua Wikibase API (mw.wikibase) changelog? Wikidata-generated location maps broke unexpectedly today, and I thought I'd track down the change that did it. Alakzi (talk) 16:15, 9 April 2015 (UTC) Hi, we announced the breaking changes in several places, including Wikimedia Tech news and the Wikidata mailing list (Using mw.wikibase.getEntity? Read on!). Also we tracked migrating modules on T88950 and migrated many ourselves. I'm sorry that we still caused disruption here, for some reasons these modules appeared as unused on our to do list P272. I've just fixed a module per hand and hope there aren't any further problems. Cheers, Hoo man (talk) 17:05, 9 April 2015 (UTC) Thanks Hoo man! It looks like I'd fixed it properly. I assume getEntity is simply an alias of getEntityObject now? Alakzi (talk) 17:10, 9 April 2015 (UTC) @Alakzi: Indeed, as documented on mw:Extension:Wikibase_Client/Lua#mw.wikibase.getEntity (updated that earlier today as it has been deployed yesterday evening). - Hoo man (talk) 17:15, 9 April 2015 (UTC) ## Special:Maintenance What is (or was) Special:Maintenance, and what does/did it do? It doesn't appear to exist, but https://en.wikipedia.org/robots.txt prevents compliant bots from archiving it. Nyttend (talk) 22:48, 8 April 2015 (UTC) It was before my time but based on searching it had different features to help editors with maintenance work. Search results include "check for double or broken redirects", and url's with Special:Maintenance&subfunction=brokenredirects, Special:Maintenance&subfunction=mispeelings, Special:Maintenance&subfunction=disambiguations. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:05, 9 April 2015 (UTC) See also rev:13270. Helder 20:08, 9 April 2015 (UTC) ## Draft-class is not included in WikiProject statistics table Please see User:WP 1.0 bot/Tables/Project/Disability, the table is not counting the Draft-class pages. Similar tables belonging to other WikiProjects do include Draft-class stats, but I can't figure out what's different about the way the bot task has been set up for WikiProject Disability. The Project banner is correctly set to use the "Full Quality Scale" for the Class parameter so the page tagging is working correctly, just the stats table is missing/ignoring the category. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:14, 9 April 2015 (UTC) @Dodger67: - just tested this for WP:GER (see table), drafts as separate statistic row were added after I changed the assessment main category with this edit:[21] in Category:Germany articles by quality (and did a manual bot-run). A similar change with your project values in your project's main assessment category may work as well, see the documentation for "extra" parameters at Template:ReleaseVersionParameters. Disclaimer: projects can have different assessment settings and methods. You'll have to test, if a similar change works with your project's categories and template settings. GermanJoe (talk) 18:17, 9 April 2015 (UTC) Thanks GermanJoe, that fixed it! BTW As you have added Drafts to the list I have tagged a few pages in Draft-space for WikiProject Germany. If you search for pages containing the word "Germany" or "German" in Draft-space you'd find many more relevant drafts you could tag - just look them over first to see if it's worth doing. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 19:58, 9 April 2015 (UTC) ## Scrolling in mobile edit I've been in the habit of catching small grammar, spelling, syntax, and usage errors on my mobile device (iPhone 4, updated iOS--I think--editing in Safari). However, whenever I go into mobile editing, it doesn't let me scroll down so I can fix the error. What is this? Lockesdonkey (talk) 21:17, 9 April 2015 (UTC) See #Scrolling disabled for iOS above for more about this. Seems to only effect iOS, I am using it on Android Lollipop on my Galaxy S5 with no problems. Obviously that means I use Google Chrome for Android (v41). While this bug is fixed, maybd try using Chrome instead? EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 03:36, 10 April 2015 (UTC) ## Special:WhatLinksHere/VA_Tech Can anyone tell me why Special:WhatLinksHere/VA_Tech claims that this redirect is transcluded in Virginia Tech? Thanks, --B (talk) 22:05, 9 April 2015 (UTC) "transclude" does not have to mean "display the contents". Virginia Tech contains {{redirect|VA Tech}}. {{redirect}} will in some cases (I'm not sure of the specifics) use a module to transclude a page by the name of its argument, in order to examine the page source and detect whether there really is a redirect pointing to the page where {{redirect}} is placed. If there is no such redirect then the page containing {{redirect}} can be added to Category:Articles with redirect hatnotes needing review. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:29, 9 April 2015 (UTC) Thanks for the explanation. --B (talk) 23:07, 9 April 2015 (UTC) ## Noindexing Hi everyone. Where can I find information on what types of pages are noindexed by default? Also, is it possible to automatically noindex all subpages of a page (e.g. my own userspace), including pages that haven't yet been created? Thanks, Sunrise (talk) 23:04, 9 April 2015 (UTC) @Sunrise: I don't know if it helps, but take a look at Category:Noindexed pages and MediaWiki:Robots.txt. Helder 02:17, 10 April 2015 (UTC) Thanks Helder! The Robots.txt file seems close to what I'm looking for in my first question. That said, other than Category:Noindexed_pages, all the entries seem to be individual pages. (For example, how is noindexing of the article talk namespace enforced?) For my second question, it occurs to me that some application of a category might work; is it possible to add a category in a way that also applies to subpages? Sunrise (talk) 07:12, 10 April 2015 (UTC) Article talk is indexed by default but in many cases noindexed via {{BLP}}. Some languages noindex their whole article talk in wgNamespaceRobotPolicies but we don't. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:38, 10 April 2015 (UTC) MediaWiki:Robots.txt is what gets appended to the system defaults and results in the actual robots.txt file (the robot/crawl policy, not necessarily the same as not being indexed). Pages that use the __NOINDEX__ magic word are the pages that get added to Category:Noindexed pages and then for namespaces, it is wgNamespaceRobotPolicies inside the config. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:07, 10 April 2015 (UTC) ## Stewards confirmation rules Hello, I made a proposal on Meta to change the rules for the steward confirmations. Currently consensus to remove is required for a steward to lose his status, however I think it's fairer to the community if every steward needed the consensus to keep. As this is an issue that affects all WMF wikis, I'm sending this notification to let people know & be able to participate. Best regards, --MF-W 16:12, 10 April 2015 (UTC) ## Redirects to user pages where the global user page is transcluded are mistakenly classified as broken See for example User:Abigor001 which is supposed to redirect to User:Abigor. Abigor has a global user page transcluded on it (meta:User:Abigor and the feature is mw:Help:Extension:GlobalUserPage) . However Abigor001 does not redirect to Abigor, and it appears as a broken redirect in Special:BrokenRedirects. Anomie's link classifer also classifies it as a broken redirect. KonveyorBelt 17:14, 10 April 2015 (UTC) This has been reported as phab:T90978. Cenarium (talk) 17:22, 10 April 2015 (UTC) ## An old problem in a table Somebody, please take a look at the table in "Calendric predictions" in Timeline of the far future and correct the error in it. This is a Featured List and shouldn't have remained like this for such a long time. -- Tisfoon (talk) 00:43, 11 April 2015 (UTC) The error message must be new due to edits of {{Age in years and days}}. I fixed this article [22] but the template shouldn't behave like that. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:28, 11 April 2015 (UTC) ## Scrolling disabled for iOS I have encountered this problem for for maybe two weeks now, possibly more. I am unable to scroll while editing on the Wikipedia mobile site on iPhone, iOS 8.2. Does it have something with technical problems or it is my mobile? Callmemirela (talk) 04:05, 8 April 2015 (UTC) I just tried it and encountered the same problem. This is apparently something to do with the most recent version of iOS Safari. Scrolling works when editing with iOS Chrome or the Wikipedia app, but not with Safari. Scrolling while editing in the desktop view works just fine in iOS Safari, on the other hand. For another twist, this affects both Safari and Chrome on an iPad. ​—DoRD (talk)​ 17:53, 8 April 2015 (UTC) Bug report filed. ​—DoRD (talk)​ 19:20, 8 April 2015 (UTC) @DoRD: I wanted to know if there's been any progress on the fix. I still can't seem to scroll. I am now currently on the newest iOS update 8.3. Thanks, Callmemirela (talk) 23:47, 11 April 2015 (UTC) ## insource searching for unicode symbol does not work as expected I was doing some searching the unicode symbol "★" and getting odd results: • "insource:★" search has no results. [23] • "insource:/★/" search (i.e. the regex version of the search) has 81 results. [24] • A simple "★" has only one result [25], Star (glyph), which was not returned on either previous search? • "intitle:★" has no results [26], though , ★Macy*s and ★NSYNC all are suggested by autocomplete. • And none of the searches finds the articles Emoji or Miscellaneous Symbols which also contain the black star symbol in their text. Anyone have any insights into what is going on? Does the search just suck at unicode, or is something else happening here? Dragons flight (talk) 18:50, 10 April 2015 (UTC) Reported in phabricator. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 10:26, 12 April 2015 (UTC) ## Infoboxes There have been several contentious discussions regarding infoboxes, including the one at Talk:Laurence Olivier#Infobox and it has even been discussed at ARBCOM. Some editors really like infoboxes and would be happy if there were an infobox in nearly every article. Other editors really dislike them. Right now, it seems that it's up to the author or authors of an article to choose whether to include an infobox, that the status quo needs to be respected, and that in order to change the status quo there has to be a consensus to change it, and that has been the difficult part: reaching a consensus. I wonder whether it might be possible to make the appearance of an infobox a display option, so that people can select the option to display, or show, the infobox in the articles that have them, or hide the infobox. Perhaps someone generally does not want to see the infobox but occasionally would like to see it in a particular article. Or perhaps someone generally wants to see the infobox but one day wants to change his or her preference and hide the infoboxes. An infobox could be created for most articles, and then readers can select the display option they prefer. This would solve a lot of problems and might make everyone happy. (Images such as portraits and coats of arms, etc., maybe could be left in the article even if the rest of the infobox is hidden.) CorinneSD (talk) 23:59, 10 April 2015 (UTC) I do think this would be useful ... optional display of infobox based on preference. Personally, I'm pro-Infobox. We do not want to cripple the feed to WikiData that Infoboxes enable in order to satisfy a display preference. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:15, 11 April 2015 (UTC) If an infobox is created, and then hidden, wouldn't the feed to WikiData still continue? CorinneSD (talk) 00:49, 11 April 2015 (UTC) Please see Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 135#Suppressing Infobox Person. --Redrose64 (talk) 09:46, 11 April 2015 (UTC) Redrose64 Thank you Redrose. I read that discussion. I like infoboxes, by the way, but I understand that quite a few editors don't like them in certain types of articles. Other than having to insert code to suppress the infobox, couldn't something simpler be developed so that a person would only have to click on something to hide or show the infobox – either for all articles at once or in individual articles? CorinneSD (talk) 12:20, 11 April 2015 (UTC) I don't think you should try to solve an editorial problem like this with a show/hide option. It tends to further polarize the opinions, because people no longer discuss with eachother and then at some later point there will be a clash anyway, which will be deeper and more emotional due to the polarized opinion. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 10:29, 12 April 2015 (UTC) I don't think this is an editorial problem, is it? I do not think people are not saying "ban infoboxes because I don't like to see information organized" rather "ban infoboxes because they get in my way of viewing the article the way I like to", which is a presentation problem, not an editorial one. --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 19:02, 12 April 2015 (UTC) I think there are two issues with infoboxes. • First, as for their content, they tend to elevate comparatively trivial details to an importance not deserved (because trivial details are easier to fit in the short format allowed) and often do so in a way that actually misrepresents the subject. Even things that may easily be summarized in a sentence or two in the lead get distorted when compressed to two words or simple mentions (such as those "influenced"/"influenced by" lists). • The other problem is that the boxes do this while occupying some of the best real estate on the page, where many would perhaps prefer a larger image, a map or just more attention directed at the actual article. Compare categories: sometimes controversial (things such as religion, ethnicity or sexuality) but trivial-but-true categories (alumnus of X College, that sort of thing) aren't that problematic because they don't get the same prominence at the bottom of the page as the same facts do inside a brightly-coloured frame in the upper right-hand corner of the page. A box with less prominent placement or one slighty hidden that one has to click to open would probably be less of an issue. --Hegvald (talk) 20:01, 12 April 2015 (UTC) This has the potential to steer this discussion into the pro- or contra-infobox controversy, which my suggestion was designed to eliminate. I do understand the point that for certain subjects, some material in an infobox may have the potential to mislead readers simply because a complicated issue is being expressed in less than five words. Is there a rule that says every category in an infobox must be filled in? For those particular subjects, couldn't that potentially misleading information simply be left out? Or, if the information cannot be left out, perhaps we can rely on an editor's choice to show or hide the infobox. If the infobox is hidden, it is less likely to mislead someone. For the editors who like infoboxes, I don't think they would be pleased if infoboxes were tucked away lower down in the article. Also, and this is the 21st century now, perhaps, when an infobox is hidden, an alternate image (photo, portrait, map, etc.) could take its place. (But I had already suggested that any image in an infobox remain in place when and if an infobox is hidden.) CorinneSD (talk) 20:21, 12 April 2015 (UTC) ## Preferences and css? Resolved I've noticed that some, if not all, of my custom css (at User:Purplewowies/monobook.css, if this behavior is something specific to me and the css I have) doesn't work when I visit the preferences page. I don't remember this happening before, so is it a recent development? Is that an intended behavior? If that's the way it's been working/supposed to work, I guess I'll just stick my foot in my mouth now... - Purplewowies (talk) 03:26, 11 April 2015 (UTC) User specified CSS does not run on Special:Preferences since phab:T72672 was fixed last September. Legoktm (talk) 04:35, 11 April 2015 (UTC) It's intentional. If a user sets up their personal CSS or JavaScript page or combination of gadgets in such a way as to break every page, we should still allow them to fix it by preventing similar breakage at prefs. On any page, if the preferences link is invisible or off screen, you can still open prefs, by visiting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Preferences if (like me) you have that bookmarked in your browser. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:26, 11 April 2015 (UTC) Okay, thanks. Makes enough sense, and when I considered it being intentional, I guess the situation that went through my head was exactly what you described, Redrose 64. *sticks other foot in mouth* - Purplewowies (talk) 06:10, 12 April 2015 (UTC) ## Obscure parser bug Can anybody work out why when you view the following wikitext, there are paragraph break between the "bar", "baz" and "qux"? === Example heading === [[Category:Foo]] [[bar]]<del>baz</del>qux  There's an example in my sandbox. Here's the generated HTML: <h3><span class="mw-headline" id="Example_heading">Example heading</span></h3> <p><a href="/wiki/Bar" title="Bar" class="mw-disambig">bar</a></p> <del>baz</del> <p>qux</p>  I would expect all of the words to be inside the same set of p tags rather than the above result. This behaviour is also very fragile - if I change the heading, or the category, or stop "bar" from being a link, or remove the <del>...</del> tags, it returns to normal. I noticed this due to a report by an IP at Template talk:Requested move#Markup bug, and I have been able to reduce the issue to this minimal example, but I'm not sure what's causing it. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 16:20, 11 April 2015 (UTC) A similar issue was discussed at Template talk:Rfc#Formatting bug. No specific cause was found. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:04, 11 April 2015 (UTC) Maybe it's HTML Tidy playing silly buggers. Not the first time. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:38, 11 April 2015 (UTC) Tidy will swap things around, but I haven't caught it inserting <p> tags. That sounds like the parsers behaviour. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 19:01, 11 April 2015 (UTC) Incidentally, if you replace the "del" with the stylistically equivalent "s", you don't have this problem. Quirky little bug. Dragons flight (talk) 19:16, 11 April 2015 (UTC) It's not semantically equivalent though. I think that Graham87 (talk · contribs) has previously mentioned that screen readers ignore the <s>...</s> markup, but announce the <del>...</del> markup as a deletion. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:33, 11 April 2015 (UTC) Nope, that is not the case; I don't remember saying that. Graham87 07:14, 12 April 2015 (UTC) I can see this isn't going to be an easy one to resolve. I've done what I probably should have done at first and reported it at phab:T95830. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 01:45, 12 April 2015 (UTC) It's Tidy doing cleanup. ins and del are a bit special, in that they partly act as <p> elements. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 10:50, 12 April 2015 (UTC) ## OSM availability Trying to use commons:Template:Object_location on some image(s), i checked the link it provides to OpenStreetMap. Didn't work, the page stayed completely blank. Investigating this, it seems i am getting 503 errors (Service Temporarily Unavailable) for many of the files used, e.g. http://tools.wmflabs.org/osm/libs/openlayers/2.12/OpenLayers-min.js ... Trying to open it directly, i get a page titled "No webservice" (The URI you have requested, [...], is not currently serviced.). Where can i ask how "temporarily" is this, or whether it's just a MIME-type issue? -- Jokes_Free4Me (talk) 07:37, 12 April 2015 (UTC) Nevermind, now it's working. -- Jokes_Free4Me (talk) 20:52, 12 April 2015 (UTC) ## Page protection - reverting to previous protection when a higher form expires I'm not entirely sure how to put this, but many pages are semi-protected indefinitely due to a long history of vandalism, or similar things. Sometimes, an edit war will break out that leads to the page being temporarily fully protected. Of course, when this full protection expires, the page is left with no protection whatsoever. So what I'm thinking is this; if a semi-protected page was protected indefinitely, and was later fully protected/template protected (or, theoretically, PC2 protected) temporarily, the page protection level automatically defaults back to semi protection after the expiration of the higher state. That, or an admin bot immediately comes back in to reinstate the semi-protection. What do people think? Lukeno94 (tell Luke off here) 12:13, 12 April 2015 (UTC) I think that it's an excellent idea, and I know it has been discussed previously (give me an hour or so and I'll find one). However, it needs a change to the MediaWiki software, so there's nothing that we can do about it ourselves except file a phab: feature request. --Redrose64 (talk) 13:50, 12 April 2015 (UTC) Got it - Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 123#Page protection check-box and phab:T41038. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:00, 12 April 2015 (UTC) The impression that I get from the Phabricator page is that anyone is welcome to submit a patch, but that any fix will have to be checked quite thoroughly as there are a lot of places in the MediaWiki codebase that might be affected. So if you know PHP, feel free to start working at the code - if you do a good job, your patch will probably be accepted. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 16:03, 12 April 2015 (UTC) For now, you can PC it, along with temporary full-protection, and make an appropriate summary; once the full protection expires, admins will either restore the semi (if they think PC isn't enough, note that PC will remind people about the protection as soon as an anon or new user edits the page), or just leave it at PC; note that PC tends to make vandalism less visible, and as a result tends to discourage it. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 16:14, 12 April 2015 (UTC) ## Auto sig ability It may have been discussed before my time, but is there any way to automatically detect when an editor forgets to sign his post, and possibly activate an automatic sig when we hit save page, or better yet prevent it from saving like what happens when we forget to add an edit summary? LOL I just forgot my sig. AtsmeConsult 17:29, 10 April 2015 (UTC) It has been discussed before, yes; and there are strong arguments against it, because not all edits on discussion pages should be signed. Examples: [27]; [28]; [29]; [30]; [31]. --Redrose64 (talk) 17:49, 10 April 2015 (UTC) At least we can detect if a user clicked the "signature and timestamp" button and put a little warning somehwere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dixtosa (talkcontribs) 18:09, 10 April 2015 (UTC) and maybe one day, when the community thinks it is ready, Flow will replace talk pages and make signatures unnecessary.--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 18:17, 10 April 2015 (UTC) If I'm not mistaken, there is a bot that floats around and autosigns some pages. And I know on commons there is a gadget for edit summaries, there may be one here. (found it SineBot (talk · contribs) obviosuly) EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 18:24, 10 April 2015 (UTC) Yes on Commons, saving without an edit summary results in this error message Reminder: You have not provided an edit summary. If you click "Save page" again, your edit will be saved without one. Now I can't remember if this was a gadget or what, but can we get this on en.wiki? EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 18:32, 10 April 2015 (UTC) You can turn it on in Preferences. It is in the editing tab right under "Rows" -- GB fan 18:40, 10 April 2015 (UTC) @EoRdE6: GB fan refers to Preferences → Editing → Prompt me when entering a blank edit summary (or the default undo summary) and there is also Preferences → Gadgets → Add two new dropdown boxes below the edit summary box with some useful default summaries. --Redrose64 (talk) 18:54, 10 April 2015 (UTC) Can we get it to also apply to a sig? That way it won't force a sig unless we make it that way. Reminder: You have not signed your post. If you click "Save page" again, your edit will be saved without your signature. And then we can turn on the feature in Gadgets or under Editing? Just a thought. AtsmeConsult 19:05, 10 April 2015 (UTC) Russian Wikipedia has enabled reminder (if I'm correct - like a dialog window) to sign your comment on talk pages. And personally I like much better Polish edit summaries (see for example in this page those two green lines). --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 19:13, 10 April 2015 (UTC) What two green lines? --Redrose64 (talk) 19:18, 10 April 2015 (UTC) These green lines --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 19:26, 10 April 2015 (UTC) No, I don't have that. Maybe it's a gadget that you have enabled. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:34, 10 April 2015 (UTC) Yes, it is a gadget (See Zielone przyciski do szybkiego wstawiania opisów zmian.). But it is interesting – it's a default gadget, maybe you have disabled it? :) --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 19:48, 10 April 2015 (UTC) That gadget is enabled (as are all of those from 'refTools – skrypt dodaje przycisk "cytuj" do paska edycji, umożliwiając szybkie wypełnienie i dodanie najczęściej wykorzystywanych szablonów cytowania.' down to 'Rozszerzona strona specjalna Prześlij.' inclusive). I've found that if I leave the gadget settings alone but change my language from en to pl, the green lines then appear. So it's dependent upon the user interface language. --Redrose64 (talk) 20:04, 10 April 2015 (UTC) Does English Wiki have it? AtsmeConsult 21:06, 10 April 2015 (UTC) $(document).ready(function() {
$("#wpSave").one("click", function() { /* change to wpPreview for testing */$("#editform").on("submit", function() {
return !(this.wpTextbox1.value.indexOf("~~"+"~~")===-1 && (
mw.config.get('wgNamespaceNumber')%2===1 ||
$.inArray("Non-talk pages that are automatically signed", mw.config.get('wgCategory'))!==-1 ) && !confirm("No sig, send anyway?")); }); }); });  Here's my first shot at a JavaScript SineBot. Its missing a lot, but if there's serious interest I can develop it more. — Dispenser 23:38, 10 April 2015 (UTC) Can I use it now?? Oh yes, it will definitely be used, and should probably be included in the WELCOME message that goes out to all new users!! Thank you Dispenser - your efforts are greatly appreciated. Let me know if I can use it, and I will spread the word!! AtsmeConsult 00:00, 11 April 2015 (UTC) Werelate.org, which uses WikiMedia as their platform, has implemented an auto-signature function, but I'm not sure how. The main developer over there is Dallan. An inquiry to him could provide details. The overall platform implementation (such as use of MediaWiki 1.7.1) is described at http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Special:Version . --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 00:09, 11 April 2015 (UTC) Eh that MediaWiki version is from July 2006. I would not comfortably use that website. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 10:22, 12 April 2015 (UTC) Dispenser's code works!!! It works. What a jewel, and a go-back-and-add-sig-saver!! Love it!!! Thanks again, Dispenser!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Atsme (talk contribs) 13:45, 13 April 2015‎ Obviously didn't work that well as I had to sign it... EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) This is good, the post that says that the code for autosig works is unsigned. -- GB fan 17:49, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Obviously overcome with joy. ―Mandruss 17:55, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Works so well that you... forgot to sign your post? Super. EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 18:13, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Actually my fault, I removed it from vector.js and forgot to add it back to common.js when I posted this!! AtsmeConsult 18:17, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Ahhhh....the irony of it all. I also misspelled Dispenser but have since corrected it AtsmeConsult 18:26, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Atsme, the ping probably won't work, the way I understand it, they only work if you add the ping and the signature in the same edit. -- GB fan 18:33, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Thanks, GB. The excitement over the sig reminder actually working got the best of me. I think when I changed it from vector.js to common.js I missed some code in the copy/paste. I have since recopied the full code, added it back to vector.js and saved it this time. As evidenced above, I really need it. - hold on - it appears it reminds you after show preview...wait so I can check it....AtsmeConsult 18:42, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Hmmmm....code reads Non-talk pages that are automatically signed so it may be that it doesn't work on all pages? Dispenser can probably explain better than I can. It may not work here. AtsmeConsult 18:46, 13 April 2015 (UTC) mw:Manual:Interface/JavaScript: "If the category box is not shown on the current page (as is the case when editing/viewing history), wgCategories will be an empty array." IIRC, the usability people broke it when redesigning the edit screen. — Dispenser 23:44, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Hello guys, I've written for long time an script for auto-signing, that anyway also have such forgot check (sorry if my English is not the best :P). I'm not sure you wanted this, but it would be nice if someone can test it on the EnWP!? de:User:Perhelion/signing.jsUser: Perhelion 21:12, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Is a commented & non-minified version available somewhere? But it looks like a good starting point for a gadget. — Dispenser 23:44, 13 April 2015 (UTC) If a missing sig could be made to respond the same as a missing edit summary, it would be perfect. If it could ignore article pages, that would be even more perfect. Maybe a not if command (or whatever) to ignore auto sig if the page has a rating for example, and list the ratings. I know as much about writing script and/or code that it requires a microscope to see it. Either way, can I please be added to a beta tester list? AtsmeConsult 01:00, 14 April 2015 (UTC) ## Red X next to image files in Edit Mode Printscreen CorinneSD; she's got a question on the "red x" In the last day or two I started seeing a red X (actually, it's a white X inside a red circle on a light gray square background) at the right margin next to every image file in Edit Mode. Another editor has noticed it, too. See User talk:CorinneSD#Red X. What is that "X"? How can I get rid of it? Might it have something to do with the re-arrangement of my talk page done by another editor about three days ago? (See User talk:CorinneSD#Re-arranged talkpage.) CorinneSD (talk) 16:43, 11 April 2015 (UTC) I don't see it. Please provide a WP:WPSHOT. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:49, 11 April 2015 (UTC) I've never done this before, so I've got to go step-by-step. I'm following the instructions on the link you provided. When I press either just PrintScreen or "Alt" and PrintScreen, I don't see anything happening. (The PrintScreen button is not in a color, so I don't think I have to use the Function key.) It says that it is saved to "the clipboard". What clipboard? I opened MSPaint, and could use it, but there's nothing in the Paint clipboard. What am I doing wrong, or not doing? CorinneSD (talk) 17:06, 11 April 2015 (UTC) It happens for me in Firefox when wikEd is enabled at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets. If the wikEd icon in the upper right corner is black and white on en edit page then click it to enable wikEd on that edit. I don't know why wikEd displays the "red" X near image code. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:17, 11 April 2015 (UTC) The clipboard is the normal Windows clipboard. In Paint, press Ctrl+V to paste from clipboard. Notifying Thryduulf, who wrote most of that page (but is probably photographing the Boat Race about now). --Redrose64 (talk) 17:36, 11 April 2015 (UTC) I was indeed photographing the boat race - I've just got home from standing by the finish line. I'm not going to have time to look into this until Monday at the earliest, and I don't have a windows computer to test it on, sorry. Thryduulf (talk) 19:04, 11 April 2015 (UTC) I still don't know what you mean by "normal Windows clipboard". I've only ever seen, or used, a clipboard in Word. CorinneSD (talk) 19:14, 11 April 2015 (UTC) P.S. I've had wikEd enabled for a long time, and I just checked and it's still enabled. CorinneSD (talk) 19:15, 11 April 2015 (UTC) The clipboard in Word is the Windows clipboard. It's shared by all applications running under Windows, and is what makes it possible to copy text from Word and paste it into Excel - or into this edit window. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:35, 11 April 2015 (UTC) O.K. I have the template in the Word clipboard. I have the upload form open. I have "browsed" and selected the screenshot file (so now a small version is visible at the right side). I don't know how to copy the template from the Word clipboard to the "Summary" part of the upload form. Word and the upload form are two different windows. CorinneSD (talk) 20:20, 11 April 2015 (UTC) In the Summary part, either press Ctrl+V to paste from clipboard, or right-click and select "Paste". --Redrose64 (talk) 20:25, 11 April 2015 (UTC) I've added the screenshot; it's got to do with WikEd. I guess the red is just a handy took to find the pictures; maybe the red x has got the same function. Joshua Jonathan -Let's talk! 20:27, 11 April 2015 (UTC) Thanks, Redrose64 and JJ. I decided to disable wikEd, save it, log out, close my browser, get on-line, log in, and then enable wikEd to see if it would be different, but it wasn't. It was the same. I find the red-circles-with-a white-X-in-them annoying, and I wish someone would get rid of them for me. I noticed that the image file, not the size details or captions, but just the image file name, is red. In the Gian Lorenzo Bernini article, one is red and the rest are blue. Were image file names always in color like that? I don't remember that. CorinneSD (talk) 21:38, 11 April 2015 (UTC) • I do believe the red x indicates that the file does not exist locally. Normally, if the file exists locally, it will show a small preview of what the image looks like. To disable this feature (which seems to not be working as intended, ping Cacycle) simply add: .wikEdFilePreview { display: none; }  to your common.css page (untested, but should work - please let me know if it doesn't and I will test and give you a working chunk of code). — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 22:20, 11 April 2015 (UTC) Technical 13 It didn't work, so I deleted the code from the css page. Why should this happen all of a sudden when I've been editing for three years and haven't had this problem? Could it have anything to do with Joshua Jonathan's re-organization of my talk page just three days ago? CorinneSD (talk) 22:39, 11 April 2015 (UTC) • Nothing at all. At this point, we'll need Cacycle's assistance to figure out why wikEd isn't working like it used to for this and to give us the correct class name to hide those for those who don't want them. I'll drop a note on his talk page pointing him here. :) — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 22:56, 11 April 2015 (UTC) Image preview/redlink detection seems to be broken, I will check into this and update wikEd as soon as I find the time. Cacycle (talk) 20:59, 12 April 2015 (UTC) Fixed in wikEd version 0.9.144a, please Shift-Reload to update. Cacycle (talk) 13:06, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Thanks, Cacycle. I know what "Shift" is, but what's "Reload"? Is that a special key on the keyboard? CorinneSD (talk) 14:01, 13 April 2015 (UTC) It varies according to browser. At WP:BYPASS#Bypassing cache, find your browser, and then use any one of the key sequences shown for that browser. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:16, 13 April 2015 (UTC) ## Disappearing bullets in template The bullets in {{ScienceFictionFantasyWeirdPulpMagazines}} display for me when I look at the template page, but on a page that uses the template, such as Tales of Wonder (magazine), the bullets have disappeared. Any idea why this is? I'm on Windows 7 and I see this on both Chrome and IE. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:09, 12 April 2015 (UTC) Fixed by adding a blank line before the navbox.[32] Adding a newline would have been enough. Before this the navbox was on a line starting with an asterisk. That makes a list entry and a navbox shouldn't be placed there. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:22, 12 April 2015 (UTC) Thanks. I should have looked at the source text myself; hadn't realized that would cause that problem. Mike Christie (talk - contribs - library) 15:22, 13 April 2015 (UTC) ## GA count drops 3,500 overnight Hello again. I'm the guy who asked about the 95,000 jump in the article count on 29 March 2015. I follow the GA total very closely (I maintain the GA stats page), and I noticed that it was about 21,800 yesterday and that it is now about 18,200. Has the script that fixed the article count now started running on the GA count? I highly doubt that 3,500 GA were demoted overnight, so I'm guessing a change in or correction of the counting algorithm is responsible. Also, I've noticed that the total article count has decreased by about 3,000 or so over the past week, which is a stark contrast with the usual 1,000 article increase/day we usually see. I suspect a script is responsible, unless we've been deleting articles like crazy. As before, any explanation you can give me would be most appreciated. Thank you. AmericanLemming (talk) 21:53, 12 April 2015 (UTC) Where do you see this GA total? --Redrose64 (talk) 22:20, 12 April 2015 (UTC) It's given on the Wikipedia:Good articles page. Sorry for not providing it; I thought everyone knew enough about the GA process that they would know where to find the total. AmericanLemming (talk) 23:40, 12 April 2015 (UTC) It's made by {{GA number}} which is currently coded to show how many pages are in Category:GA-Class Good articles. It has just been decided at Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2015 January 25#Category:GA-Class Good articles to delete this category. A template edit [33] is removing the category from talk pages when the edit propagates to them. It seems {{GA number}} should switch to count pages in Category:Good articles, currently 21839. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:48, 12 April 2015 (UTC) I have made the change to {{GA number}}.[34] PrimeHunter (talk) 23:57, 12 April 2015 (UTC) Thank you very much! I think the count yesterday was something like 21,836, so I'm a lot more comfortable with 21,839 than I am with 18,166. AmericanLemming (talk) 00:36, 13 April 2015 (UTC) ## Accessing WikiData page Usually, for pages with existing inter-language data, clicking on "Edit links" opens up the WikiData page for that article. But for pages without any such link, (e.g., Cornelia Stuyvesant Vanderbilt) clicking that "Edit links" opens an in-page dialog asking me to provide a Language and a Page (title)... Is there any way to access the WikiData entity page for the latter article(s)? This can be avoided by right-clicking the link and copying the target location, then opening the URL manually (or by a Right-Click and opening in a new tab; Note: Ctrl+Click doesn't work). Is this in-page dialog by design, (presumably since for existing data, the dialog wouldn't know whether i intend to change something or add a new entry, but for an empty list there's only one action possible) or was leaving it active an oversight? -- Jokes_Free4Me (talk) 21:58, 12 April 2015 (UTC) The "Tools" section in the left pane has a "Wikidata item" link. I assume the in-page dialog is by design. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:12, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Exactly. The languages area is about linking between languages, not about accessing Wikidata, it just happens to use Wikidata. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 16:37, 13 April 2015 (UTC) ## Can't accept pending change At Malala Yousafzai the two revisions made at 10:32 today are shown with a light brown background and "[pending review]". However, if I click that "[pending review]" link on the ClueBot NG revert, or view the diff, it says "[accepted revision]", and the button is greyed out - both of these contradict the light brown background and "[pending review]" shown on the history, and imply that the revision has been accepted. But on returning to the history page and refreshing, it's brown and "[pending review]" again - how can that be cleared? --Redrose64 (talk) 11:02, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Should be fixed now. From the diff view, I unaccepted and reaccepted Cluebot's edit. BethNaught (talk) 11:04, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Thank you --Redrose64 (talk) 11:06, 13 April 2015 (UTC) ## Offline editing tools Is it possible to work on complex drafts offline, but in such a way that all the markup and templates still work correctly? How? What are the better tools editors use? Thanks NewsAndEventsGuy (talk) 11:27, 13 April 2015 (UTC) ## Browsing through some Logs... Is there some way i could restrict Special:Log from showing all those not-really-relevant "account auto-created" lines? This also happens on WP, but it's somewhat less visible since there is much more actual info (and account created on demand, not auto-matically) in the logs here... -- Jokes_Free4Me (talk) 11:45, 13 April 2015 (UTC) I don't know a good way. You could place this in Special:MyPage/common.css at the wiki: .mw-logline-newusers {display: none;}  However, it hides all account creations in all pages, also when the log is restricted to a single named user. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:08, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Most MediaWiki pages produce a class you can target on the body tag. Following example from Special:Watchlist. <body class="mediawiki ltr sitedir-ltr ns--1 ns-special mw-special-Watchlist page-Special_Watchlist skin-vector action-view">  So we should be able to narrow the specificity, but my CSS is rusty. --Izno (talk) 18:54, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Specificity-wise, we could try to target "mw-special-Log" or "page-Special_Log", but it won't really help, since the classes are not different between "All public logs" and specific logs like "User creation log"... After all, it's the same URL. -- Jokes_Free4Me (talk) 21:54, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Unfortunately, even if i won't hide it and use something like color: #c0c0c0; instead, it's not much help, since (1) it still loads the same data, it just displays it differently; and (2) there's no CSS difference between an on-demand creation (first time on WM) and an automatic creation (via SUL, most likely). As a last resort, i think i will try to query specific types of logs, one at a time. :-< If only that type drop-down list was a check-box list... :-) -- Jokes_Free4Me (talk) 21:54, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Maybe file a bug in phabricator (looks like a couple bugs we could punch in, though I bet at least one of them would be a duplicate...)? --Izno (talk) 00:38, 14 April 2015 (UTC) ## Tech News: 2015-16 16:41, 13 April 2015 (UTC) ## End of an era, start of a new one I think you can truly call it that. Eloquence early editor, early software developer, board member and long time Director at WMF is moving on. Thank you Erik, for all that you have done to get us from those early days of pure volunteer chaos (as Brion called it) to the organization that we have now. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 08:27, 14 April 2015 (UTC) ## Edit counters that works ? Can anyone tell me if there are any global edit counters who works. Most of them seams to be out of order.--85.166.159.202 (talk) 04:10, 8 April 2015 (UTC) This tool should be what you're looking for (and it seems to be working all right for me). ~SuperHamster Talk Contribs 04:13, 8 April 2015 (UTC) Is there really some other global edit counters? --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 19:19, 8 April 2015 (UTC) There used to be loads, but they were all on Toolserver, which died last June. AFAIK the XTools one (linked at the bottom of your contribs as "Edit counter") is the only other one which got ported to ToolLabs. --Redrose64 (talk) 19:45, 8 April 2015 (UTC) I was talking about the global ones. I know there was (is?) plenty of edit counters for edits made in local Wikipedia (like this one and this one). --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 20:14, 8 April 2015 (UTC) The XTools one is global. Here are your counts for Croatian Wikipedia; Estonian Wikipedia; Latvian Wikipedia; Russian Wikipedia; Meta; Wikidata. --Redrose64 (talk) 22:06, 8 April 2015 (UTC) Well don't look at stats.grok.se, it's been broken since 3 April and no-one has fixed it. 22:21, 8 April 2015 (UTC) We had different opinion what is global. I though that global means one page, where is every Wikipedia, but you - one tool, which can be used for every project. Ok, nevermind :) --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 06:27, 9 April 2015 (UTC) • Edgars2007, as a maintainer for xTools, I need to ask what you mean by all stats on one page. Do you mean have one really long page which lists all wikis (there are 720 last I checked) or do you want a combined total on one page as if it was a separate wiki? The later could probably be done, if there was enough of a demand for it. I'll note that it would be an extensive amount of processing to do it, so there would have to be a discussion between myself and the other maintainers to see what level of community request we would need to attempt to undertake that task. Give me a couple weeks (let's say by May 1st) and I'll create WP:XTOOLS to describe the existing tools and then you can start a discussion on the talk page for that page and we can take it from there. Thanks for your suggestion. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 12:39, 9 April 2015 (UTC) Technical 13, you misunderstood me. I am satisfied with xTools. Everything is fine. But I had some ideas about it last summer, if you're interested in them I could tell them to you (if i've not forgotten them). Actually, I would be more interested in this one :) --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 10:49, 10 April 2015 (UTC) • No worries. Does the script on that page not do the job you want at all or is it just the pretty interface you drew up that allows you to manage multiple redirects to the page you are on that is missing? I probably can find time to make it so clicking the link will allow you to add a redirect to the page one at a time if it is not working but the latter will take more time than I have currently (not to say in a few months I can't do it). — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 22:15, 14 April 2015 (UTC) I use any of these three: Meta Wiki, Tool Labs (Quentinv), Tool Labs (GUC) that work pretty well, and the first one never goes down (it can't). EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 22:26, 8 April 2015 (UTC) ## Sandbox link At the top of the page, inbetween my talk page and preferences. It's appeared in the last 20 minutes or so. Anyway to get rid of it? Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 18:39, 9 April 2015 (UTC) Place li#pt-sandbox { display: none; } in your CSS. (Already mentioned later but added here with simple instruction for convenience) PrimeHunter (talk) 00:57, 12 April 2015 (UTC) Just today a link to my userspace sandbox has appeared in my personal bar. I remember this used to be an optional gadget, which I long ago disabled. Why has this reappeared, and how can I get rid of it? BethNaught (talk) 18:43, 9 April 2015 (UTC) What's wrong with it? It encourages new users to use their sandbox's instead of testing in the mainspace. EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 18:47, 9 April 2015 (UTC) I don't need a link to it. That's what's wrong with it, smart arse. Lugnuts Dick Laurent is dead 18:53, 9 April 2015 (UTC) One, that doesn't answer the question and two: I rarely use my sandbox, I draft articles at ~/Article title and it's a red link for me because my user sandbox is ~/Sandbox with a capital. Now the personal bar takes up half my screen and it's just annoying. To repeat, where did it come from and how can I send it back there? BethNaught (talk) 18:51, 9 April 2015 (UTC) (ec) I just noticed this as well. here is the edit that has caused this, but a glance at the Phabricator link doesn't make it clear how to re-disable the sandbox link - Matma Rex, can you shed some light on this? ​—DoRD (talk)​ 18:53, 9 April 2015 (UTC) And, most of those of us who have been here a while don't want or need the link. ​—DoRD (talk)​ 18:54, 9 April 2015 (UTC) It's good for newbies, but there should definitely be an easy way to disable that link. --Leyo 18:57, 9 April 2015 (UTC) Not an "easy way" exactly, but adding: #pt-sandbox { display: none; }  to your CSS file will hide it. If using the vector skin the appropriate file is Special:MyPage/vector.css. Dragons flight (talk) 19:03, 9 April 2015 (UTC) (ec) It's not "easy" in the gadget sense, but I've been told that you can add li#pt-sandbox { display: none; } to your common.css page to disable it. ​—DoRD (talk)​ 19:05, 9 April 2015 (UTC) Thanks to both, this has worked for me. BethNaught (talk) 19:07, 9 April 2015 (UTC) By easy way, I was referring to Preferences or so. --Leyo 19:16, 9 April 2015 (UTC) This really should be a preference/gadget or otherwise be turn-off-able. 98% of users having to do CSS-workarounds isn't quite the solution. Jared Preston (talk) 19:19, 9 April 2015 (UTC) This did not work for me, either in the skin CSS (MonoBook) or in the common.css file. And other ideas? BMK (talk) 19:45, 9 April 2015 (UTC) Just replace the old gadget by a new CSS-only gadget which will hide the link provided by the extension. This should be enough to make it easy to enable/disable it again... Helder 20:00, 9 April 2015 (UTC) Could you do that? --Leyo 20:42, 9 April 2015 (UTC The only thing needed (once there is consensus for this) is to create e.g. MediaWiki:Gadget-HideSandbox.css with the CSS above, and add this page to a new line on MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition, similar to the "HideFundraisingNotice" gadget. Then a description should be added to MediaWiki:Gadget-HideSandbox. This would make the option to appear at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets. Helder 02:12, 10 April 2015 (UTC) It also needs an administrator to approve the gadget at Wikipedia:Gadget/proposals, which seems to be a bit of an issue. --Ahecht (TALK PAGE ) 15:35, 13 April 2015 (UTC) Sad to see the lack of substance in the comments of the two admins one admin who opposed its addition. Killiondude (talk) 22:32, 16 April 2015 (UTC) It was only opposed by one admin and supported by another. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:42, 16 April 2015 (UTC) Sorry. You are right. I was reading it incorrectly. Killiondude (talk) 23:10, 16 April 2015 (UTC) • The code does not work for my MonoBook skin. Does anyone have a workaround? SilkTork ✔Tea time 21:01, 9 April 2015 (UTC) monobook.css, not monobook.js! --Leyo 21:05, 9 April 2015 (UTC) • Try putting li#pt-sandbox {display: none;} in your monobook.css or common.css file. MANdARAX XAЯAbИAM 22:24, 9 April 2015 (UTC) @Mandarax: Thanks, that worked in the monobook.css. BMK (talk) 03:26, 10 April 2015 (UTC) Thanks. That worked for me. SilkTork ✔Tea time 07:27, 10 April 2015 (UTC) Filed a ticket phab:T95669 and submitted a patch. Glaisher (talk) 11:14, 10 April 2015 (UTC) Maybe the link could be done at least blue, as all other links at the top? Regardless does the sandbox exists or not. Will remind, that link was blue in the gadget version. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 13:54, 10 April 2015 (UTC) • Thank you for this information. I had to change my skin to MonoBook (not necessarily happy with it, but whatever. I do already use it on Simple Wikipedia). Had to create my CSS page and add above code. Although it gave me dire warnings of several varieties, I managed to rid myself of the sandbox link. Nothing has exploded...I so do not need a mandatory link to my cat litter box. I am adult and brave and create all my text right in the edit window. Wow. Thank you again for this conversation. ツ Fylbecatulous talk 14:01, 10 April 2015 (UTC) I can't say I'm an expert, but I don't think you were forced to change to Monobook. Doesn't this code #pt-sandbox { display: none; }  added to Special:MyPage/common.css work in Vector? --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 14:07, 10 April 2015 (UTC) Edgars2007, thank you. I was using the Modern skin. Appearance-wise it was best for visibility on my PC monitor (something to do with less glare with the background colours and font. I had LASIK in the past and I am really glare sensitve, even with the LCD). I sometimes stare at Wikipedia for hours, as my time card usage shows 12-16h faithfully. <smile>. thanks. I will hope for a permanent disengagement by the powers-that-be but we all know how that usually goes... Fylbecatulous talk 14:58, 10 April 2015 (UTC) Forgot there are more styles without Vector and Monobook :) Well, if you want continue using Modern, then copy this to your Special:MyPage/common.css. That should work (I tested). --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 15:14, 10 April 2015 (UTC) Excellent. thanks for the links, as well. That works and you can go ahead and patrol my new css page. I shall keep my Modern skin. Fylbecatulous talk 15:28, 10 April 2015 (UTC) With monobook there is a #p-personal li { display: inline; } rule that takes precedence over (props Orlodrim), so you have to add an !important clause: #pt-sandbox { display: none !important; } Od1n (talk) 21:20, 14 April 2015 (UTC) ### S I'm fine with having a link to a personal sandbox, but it should be an uppercase S. User:Jc37/sandbox is where the link points to. It should be pointing to User:Jc37/Sandbox. - jc37 21:40, 9 April 2015 (UTC) The gadget (which, if I recall, was enabled by default) linked to /sandbox, so linking to /Sandbox would probably result in unexpected redlinks. wctaiwan (talk) 22:08, 9 April 2015 (UTC) Then fix the gadget? - jc37 22:13, 9 April 2015 (UTC) That wouldn't help. The (potentially large number of) people who have already created a sandbox using the gadget would have their sandboxes at /sandbox. As a drop-in replacement, this change shouldn't be breaking the sandbox link for those people. wctaiwan (talk) 22:22, 9 April 2015 (UTC) And the sandbox gadget has already been removed anyway [43] since its function was redundant to the new mw:Extension:SandboxLink. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:37, 9 April 2015 (UTC) So because some coder didn't give a thought to capitalising the initial "S" in sandbox, it can't be changed because the few who were using the gadget might have a redlink, as opposed to the millions of accounts on Wikipedia which now have this link at the top of the page? I presume there are lots of bots that know how to move a page. This shouldn't be a difficult fix. Of course, the better solution would be for the wikisoftware to not have the letter after a slash to be case sensitive, like the initial letters. For example, User:jc37 and User:Jc37 manage to go to the same place. So why can't /S and /s go to the same place? - jc37 23:23, 9 April 2015 (UTC) I don't know how lowercase sandbox was chosen in the gadget but all the skin subpages like /vector.js are also lowercase. mw:Extension:SandboxLink allows each wiki to choose a subpagename at MediaWiki:Sandboxlink-subpage-name. "sandbox" is the default for English. The subpage feature is disabled in some namespaces (notably main) and I think it would cause too much confusion if /s was converted to /S in namespaces where subpages are enabled but not in other namespaces. Should it for example be possible for an article to have /s in the name but not for its talk page? PrimeHunter (talk) 00:09, 10 April 2015 (UTC) "the few who were using the gadget" Just like this new extension, the gadget was enabled for everyone by default. You probably just turned it off and forgot about it. There are approximately 192,400 lowercase sandbox pages, compared to 23,600 uppercase ones.[44] Not saying the original decision was the right call, but it's how it is. wctaiwan (talk) 00:55, 10 April 2015 (UTC) ## Some sort of presentation bug On the mobile version of Wikipedia, user profiles are all wierd all of a sudden. Here is mine as an example. I am using a phone and no app. It is hard to explain but I'm guessing it's some technical stuff. It looks like the page hasn't loaded properly, but it has. No other pages have this issue. I'm not sure whether the desktop version experiences this issue. —DangerousJXD (talk) 03:46, 14 April 2015 (UTC) Which parts exactly are "weird"? Which browser do you use? It's hard to know whether someone else sees the same problem without knowing how to reproduce and what the problem is. :) --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:27, 14 April 2015 (UTC) Special:UserProfile/DangerousJXD is not the same page as User:DangerousJXD. I don't see any problem with the user profile page. Nthep (talk) 09:43, 14 April 2015 (UTC) The browser is Chrome. You "reproduce" it by just going to any user's user profile page and you'll see it. It is hard to explain. There used to be shading, the users last uploaded picture used to be displayed, a picture from the last article the user edited used to be displayed, some of the writing used to be bold, the writing is thinner than it was, writing is all 'smooshed' together, and the writing was in a box sort of thing. That's the best I can explain it. Any change it was just changed on purpose and that is now how it is supposed to be? I am assuming it is not on the desktop version. Just to clarify, it is only on user profile pages (not user pages) and I am using a phone. It isn't a big issue, just a little one. —DangerousJXD (talk) 10:31, 14 April 2015 (UTC) On a related matter, I see that Special:UserProfile/Redrose64 shows that I have 140 uploads. That's far too high (should be about 13) unless Commons is included. This is probably the case, since c:Special:UserProfile/Redrose64 gives the same figure - as do m:Special:UserProfile/Redrose64, cy:Special:UserProfile/Redrose64 and several others. But that is more confusing, since I have only uploaded to English Wikipedia and Commons, so I would expect Special:UserProfile/Redrose64 (on English Wikipedia) to show a different figure - either 13 or 153. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:20, 14 April 2015 (UTC) I haven't seen this feature before but at other wikis it sounds more like you say it used to be. Compare for example https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spezial:Benutzerprofil/Magnus_Manske?uselang=en and https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:UserProfile/Magnus_Manske?uselang=en. At de I see boxes (big boxes with a brief line) and bold text. At en I don't. I like the en version better. I don't see images anywhere. They should be gone after phab:T90801. The edit count line has different wording because de displays MediaWiki:mobile-frontend-profile-footer-ancient while en displays MediaWiki:mobile-frontend-profile-footer-years. I don't know why. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:46, 14 April 2015 (UTC) This is how they used to look here (as pointed out above), why don't they still look like that? That is exactly what I was talking about, it used to look like that but now it doesn't. --DangerousJXD (talk) 22:01, 14 April 2015 (UTC) Thanks guys for letting us know about this. This is now fixed. Jdlrobson (talk) 00:00, 15 April 2015 (UTC) ### Public thanks A completely separate issue with UserProfile: I thought thanks were only supposed to be visible to others if they go looking for them at Special:Log/thanks. But Special:UserProfile/DangerousJXD displays MediaWiki:Mobile-frontend-profile-last-thank which says "Last thanked by [username]." This does not seem consistent with Wikipedia:Notifications/Thanks#What the feature is not. PamD posted to Wikipedia talk:Notifications/Thanks#Thanks and mobile view but was just told to discuss it with the mobile team. Based on phab:T58818 they deliberately want thanks to be more public. They also displayed which page the thanks was about but removed that part two months later. Based on what has has been told, most users probably don't expect a thanks they give to be displayed on the recipient's mobile user profile (Special:UserProfile/DangerousJXD is also visible at desktop but not linked from the desktop interface as far as I know). I propose we blank MediaWiki:Mobile-frontend-profile-last-thank. I'm not sure how mobile works but I guess this will remove the thanks message at the English Wikipedia for unregistered users and users with the default en language. However, it might leave a blank line, or even a blank box if en starts displaying boxes again at UserProfile. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:34, 14 April 2015 (UTC) ## How to disable mobile interface? Hi. Is there any way to stop en.wikipedia.org redirecting to en.m.wikipedia.org when accessed on my Android phablet? I'm using Firefox on a 1280x800 screen, and I find the desktop interface much better; in particular the mobile Watchlist page has loads of bugs. I can of course "request desktop site" after the page starts loading, but that's a load of hassle. Thanks for any help. Rwxrwxrwx (talk) 11:58, 14 April 2015 (UTC) Click the "Desktop" link at the bottom. It should set a cookie that prevents the mobile redirect. Zhaofeng Li [talkcontribs] 12:41, 14 April 2015 (UTC) I keep switching back and forth because the mobile watchlist stinks but the mobile editor is pleasant. Jim.henderson (talk) 13:05, 14 April 2015 (UTC) - That seems to work, thanks! Why didn't I notice it? Rwxrwxrwx (talk) 16:23, 14 April 2015 (UTC) Can we have an option in preferences to disable mobile interface altogether? It's damn annoying to the point I hope it has never been created. -- Sameboat - 同舟 (talk · contri.) 16:29, 14 April 2015 (UTC) I'm with you - the mobile interface sucks. Moreover I've made the mistake of downloading the app, so it always tries to open stuff in the app which doesn't have the "Desktop" link. The mobile version lets you edit, but it doesn't notify you of talk page notifications, you don't get other notifications, you can't see talk pages, user pages, or WP pages... Blah. , when I click "Desktop" it does go to the desktop version, but I don't think it sets a cookie because the next time I visit it opens in mobile again. ~ ONUnicorn(Talk|Contribs)problem solving 14:46, 16 April 2015 (UTC) It does for me, it seems (Chrome on Android 5.1). I've never checked my cookies, but it is described on wmf:Privacy_policy/FAQ#Can_you_give_me_some_examples_of_types_of_cookies_and_how_you_use_local_storage.3F Zhaofeng Li [talkcontribs] 02:41, 17 April 2015 (UTC) ## Protection change details should always appear in edit summary (or somewhere else) Due to vandalism, some of the Reference Desks are currently semi-protected. Note these successive changes on the same desk: [45] [46] When the first change was made, there was an automatic comment in the edit summary giving the details of the chosen protection (type and duration). When the second change was made, the person's own summary of the reason was almost 250 characters long and the result was that the automatic comment was truncated to nothing. I appreciate the intent of making a long edit summary, but I think that when the protection level is changed, the most important thing is to record the details. Either they should be given precedence in the edit summary (perhaps by giving the user a way to shorten his/her part) or they should show up some other way. Is there even a way to find out the duration of the change when it isn't in the edit summary? --65.94.49.82 (talk) 14:06, 14 April 2015 (UTC) See the protection log. Graham87 14:24, 14 April 2015 (UTC) Thanks. And the other bit of the answer is that to see that, on the page's history page I click on "View logs for this page". --65.94.49.82 (talk) 23:36, 16 April 2015 (UTC) ## Broken template I reported this via the bug reporting scheme, only to be told that Phabricator deals with MediaWiki bugs but not bugs in the Wikipedia template machinery. They pointed me here. The "cite EWD" template worked a month ago but right now produces bad output and a broken URL. The article about the template shows it, as well as articles that use it. Paul Koning (talk) 16:01, 14 April 2015 (UTC) Fixed by [47]. That template has 100000+ uses and should probably be protected. Thanks for the report. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:11, 14 April 2015 (UTC) 167176 transclusions to be precise. I gave it an indef template-prot. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:38, 14 April 2015 (UTC) ## Performance Anyone else getting bad performance today? This page took 80.3 seconds to load, with the majority of time taken up by api.php calls. --NeilN talk to me 20:34, 14 April 2015 (UTC) Articles load fairly quickly, but the top and side bars take forever. --NeilN talk to me 20:43, 14 April 2015 (UTC) The bits server is being slow intermittently. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:31, 14 April 2015 (UTC) Any idea what is causing the slowness and when it'll be fixed? --NeilN talk to me 05:46, 15 April 2015 (UTC) Nope. I'm just an observer, but know from five years experience that if a page takes more than five seconds to load, and the status shows "Waiting for bits.wikimedia.org" while the spinny thing is revolving, and what I am eventually displayed is a page lacking some or all of its styling, the problem is at bits. --Redrose64 (talk) 05:49, 15 April 2015 (UTC) This might not be the case as the slow requests are directed towards en.wikipedia.org and not bits.wikipedia.org. --NeilN talk to me 13:42, 15 April 2015 (UTC) ## Mobile Web Block Warning A screenshot of the notice received I received attempting to edit. Note the message at the bottom. So I discovered today that if a blocked user attempts to edit on the mobile version of En.Wiki, they will be allowed to edit the code and put in an edit summary, before they are notified that they are blocked, and any work they have put in is lost. Not only that, the block notice in not clickable and it gives no reason why you are blocked and no method of appealing. If mobile editor is to become more popular as we are being told, this needs sorting out. EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 21:13, 14 April 2015 (UTC) This should be filed in Phabricator, (with full user story background). —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 21:47, 14 April 2015 (UTC) Hi there, thank you so much for noting this! I'm currently poking around in here looking for stuff - this isn't what I was looking for but I'm glad I did. EoRdE6, I'll notify the mobile team. -Rdicerb (WMF) (talk) 00:20, 15 April 2015 (UTC) EoRdE6: This would be very welcome as a task in the bug tracker indeed. Could you file it against the "Mobile-Web" project? Thanks in advance! --AKlapper (WMF) (talk) 09:02, 15 April 2015 (UTC) • @EoRdE6: I would highly recommend you explain how you acquired this screenshot. I know that you are a net positive to the Wikipedia project, but without clarification, someone could make false sockpuppetry accusations against you. Steel1943 (talk) 14:53, 16 April 2015 (UTC) • Steel1943 Oops, should have clarified that yeah. The IP address I edit from is blocked until 15:25, 9 September 2020. Not from me I assure you, its a shared IP. EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 14:58, 16 April 2015 (UTC) ## Pushing for bug to be fixed This continues to be an annoying problem which shows no sign of ever being fixed. Is there any way to bump up the priority and get someone to look at it? 86.152.163.58 (talk) 13:42, 15 April 2015 (UTC) • Sure, fill out the form on Special:Login/signup and then visit Phab:T70324 and add some details or use cases to the ticket. Tickets that get the most usable input from the most people tend to get resolved the quickest. :) — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 13:59, 15 April 2015 (UTC) ## Weird redirects left by double redirect fixing bots There seem to be occasional problems with the several bots which fix double redirects, often resulting from vandalism but occasionally resulting from move wars and even more rarely from good-faith bold page moves. For example, see the recent RfD discussions on these confusing redirects: • Gangsta Bitch Barbie → Null set: a band article which was redirected to a new name, then determined not to be notable and redirected again to a different subject, creating a double redirect which was fixed by AvicBot. • Creatures of the Id → Insanity: a redirect to a comic book article which was moved because it was missing a disambiguator, with a new redirect put in place of the original target, leaving behind the odd double redirect (now deleted) which was fixed by Xqbot. • Ennialation → My Little Pony: was a redirect from a misspelling of Annihilation which at some point was vandalized to redirect to My Little Pony. Before the vandalism was repaired, Xqbot detected the double redirect and helpfully repaired it for us. In each of these cases, of course it's not the bot's behaviour that is the problem, yet a problem is created and nobody is aware of it until someone happens to stumble across the weird redirect. I don't think this is a big enough problem to suggest that the bots should not automatically fix double redirects, but I would like to suggest that when doing so, the bot flags its action somehow. My thought is it could populate a list in the format of the one above, which could be watched, and the entries checked and cleared by interested editors, to weed out the occasional improper fix. Thoughts? Ivanvector (talk) 19:27, 15 April 2015 (UTC) ## Question about 'Child' Template:Navbox - smaller font Greetings, Recently I noticed that font is smaller on a child Navbox compared to a regular (parent) Navbox. IMO it is harder to read because of the size reduction. Can the software be changed to keep Child Navbox font size the same? Example at Template:Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Cincinnati. Regards, JoeHebda (talk) 20:08, 15 April 2015 (UTC) I added |{{{1|}}} to each of the four child navboxes [48] to permit the existing |child in the four calls in {{Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Cincinnati}} to be passed on. Does that look good? PrimeHunter (talk) 21:04, 15 April 2015 (UTC) Thanks PrimeHunter (talk). It looks fine, much better! Being somewhat new to Wikipedia, this is magic. Now I can backtrack to update a few more child navboxes with this same issue. And I learned something newtoday! . Thanks so much! JoeHebda (talk) 21:56, 15 April 2015 (UTC) ## tracking category sporadic Resolved Can someone help me with what I'm overlooking here? It's a tracking category: if the info box has a field 'glotto' without a corresponding 'glotto(ref)name', then it should add the page to the category so we can review it. (Many early pages with Glottolog codes don't specify the name, which throws of the ref if the language is renamed in the info box.) The cat contained hundreds of articles last week, and I cleared them up, but I just came across another (Bolyu language) that didn't generate the cat. (Doing a test revert of the Glottolog name now, and it's not doing anything.) — kwami (talk) 20:18, 16 April 2015 (UTC) If you change a template such that the pages transcluding that template are recategorised, you need to wait for them to work their way through the job queue before the categories concerned are both populated correctly and shown at the bottom of the affected pages. This can take from minutes to weeks. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:52, 16 April 2015 (UTC) Thanks. I was checking for that. When you save, the article itself should update, even if the category isn't populated. — kwami (talk) 22:25, 16 April 2015 (UTC) It still takes time, and it often occurs that the cats at the bottom of the article are displayed correctly when the category pages that they link to are not. A WP:NULLEDIT on every article that transcludes the template will synchronise, but this is not feasible when there are 8122 transclusions. --Redrose64 (talk) 23:33, 16 April 2015 (UTC) Before the glotto code is this line: {{#if:{{{iso3|}}}|<!--okay-->|{{#if:{{{lc1|}}}|<!--ok-->|{{#if:{{{linglist|}}}|{{#ifeq:{{{isoexception|}}}|dialect|[[Category:Dialects with Linguist List code]]|[[Category:Languages without ISO 639-3 code but with Linguist List code]]}}}} It has four nested #if or #ifeq so if it's supposed to be a closed line then it needs eight }}}}}}}} at the end and not only four. The following glotto code is currently part of the unclosed #if's. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:10, 16 April 2015 (UTC) Ah, thanks. I should have inserted the code further done. Fixed! — kwami (talk) 22:21, 16 April 2015 (UTC) ## Reference/Citation bot Resolved Hi all, I was wondering how I can activate (I did in my preferences) citation bot for this new article: Corporate Election Services, not very technical minded here, the way I read it I'm supposed to hit the Citation button (but it takes me to a blank white page with an error--completely white page no Wikipedia icon or toolbars at all?!) I went the route listed in the instructions of <ref>{{web cite| website URL}}</ref> but now I get problems on the reflist. Please help! Thanks! Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 22:54, 16 April 2015 (UTC) I tried to fix it, but another contributor was faster. Check out {{cite web}} for its syntax, notably url=...|author=...|date=...|title=...|publisher=...|accessdate=... and put the reference after punctuation (period or comma). –Be..anyone (talk) 23:12, 16 April 2015 (UTC) (sorry for the ec, Be..anyone). the references are cleaned up - I used the citation bot link in the toolbox in the left sidebar, not the one in edit mode though. However there are still a lot of citation details missing (titles, dates, authors, ...); the citation bot can't fetch all types of information from all URLs for technical reasons (see bot documentation for details). You'll have to add the remaining information manually (or you could test Visual Editor's new citation functions). GermanJoe (talk) 23:56, 16 April 2015 (UTC) Much thanks to you both! I will check out the Visual Editor as well! Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 00:39, 17 April 2015 (UTC) ## Sending thanks to IPs So, when I look at the edit history of a page, there's something that says "(undo | thank)" next to the edit summary, and if you click the thank button, the editor gets a message that they have been thanked for the edit. However, that button is missing from IP edits. Is there a reason for this? Sometimes someone editing under an IP has quite obviously done a lot of work that has drastically improved a page (or several). I would like to be able to thank them the same way I do named editors. I realize that many IPs are not static, but many others are. Moreover, if you thank them within a few minutes of the edit, chances are they're still using the same IP and will see it. It just doesn't make sense not to have that as an option for them. So, why is it like that? ~ ONUnicorn(Talk|Contribs)problem solving 03:21, 16 April 2015 (UTC) "Thanking" someone sends them an "Echo" notification. However notifications are only available to logged in users, and as such IPs can't get thanks. Similarly, IPs won't get a notification if their edits are undone or reverted, since that requires Echo as well. Stickee (talk) 06:06, 16 April 2015 (UTC) Another thing is that unless you know that an IP address is static, or that the edit that you wish to send thanks for is very recent, you might be thanking somebody who had nothing to do with it. For example, I made one of these edits, but none of the others, so I am certain that more than one different person has edited from that IP address. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:06, 16 April 2015 (UTC) IMO not really a problem, another user of the same IP could interpret it. I'd like to send thanks to bots and IPs. When I used IPs for about six years I sometimes got a {{welcome}} on the IP talk page, no harm done. –Be..anyone (talk) 23:22, 16 April 2015 (UTC) So with the echo notification; isn't that the same as the notification you get when you get a new talk page message? If they aren't able to get echo notifications how do they know when they have a talk page message, and if the answer is that they don't, then why do we bother warning IP vandals on their talk page, or leaving talk page messages for IPs at all? I know IPs sometimes see and respond to messages on their talk page, but if they aren't getting notifications, then how? ~ ONUnicorn(Talk|Contribs)problem solving 13:21, 16 April 2015 (UTC) Echo notifications for registered users and "You have new messages" for IP's is not the same feature. IP's still get "You have new messages". PrimeHunter (talk) 13:38, 16 April 2015 (UTC) Also known as the Orange Bar of Death/Doom. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:32, 16 April 2015 (UTC) ## How do you get rid of the @#$%^&*! banner?

There's a Wikimedia banner that goes "Help the Funds Dissemination Committee"...

and no matter how many times I click on the x to close it, it keeps coming back!

I'd like never to see it again.

That would be Preferences→Browsing→•Suppress display of fundraiser banners and/or •Suppress display of all Central Notices. Should work :) EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 07:08, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Under gadgets - why I didn't find it. Your tip worked great. Thanks! BTW, I don't mind reading a notice once, but they should provide a way for it to stay away after you close it. The Transhumanist 07:49, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
I think that making the banners go away requires keeping cookies, but I'm not sure. Are you clearing cookies frequently? Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:12, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

## Map alignment in infobox

Recently Template:Infobox subdivision type has been added to the lead of States of Germany. The infobox uses Template:German Federal States as map/image and shows a strange display glitch: the map is not centered, but left-aligned on my display (Windows XP, FF, vector skin). That problem seems to be somewhat system-dependant: on another editor's display the map was centered correctly. The map template German Federal States is quite old and may need improving of its parameter handling. The template is used in several Germany-related articles, any improvements or advice for possible improvements appreciated. GermanJoe (talk) 16:28, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Oddly I can't reproduce this (FF10+IE9+QupZillla+Chrome monobook, FF10+Chrome useskin=vector). I tested (preview) to put the map template in {{center|{{German Federal States}}}}, and nothing happened, it still worked for me. –Be..anyone (talk) 23:07, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks a lot for checking, . Knowing the problem is on my side then, I checked a few more possible reasons and found the culprit: I have NoSquint for FireFox installed (add-on to modify zoom levels when needed). Disabling this and switching back to "Firefox default zoom functions" fixed the mis-alignment. Do you use any zoom tool by chance for FireFox under Windows or just the FF default functions? GermanJoe (talk) 23:32, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
No special tricks, it's a vintage 2013 portable FF10 ESR for a virtual Windows 2000, only "noscript" still offers updates. Chrome+IE on Windows 7 might use some "smart scroll" Setpoint software for a Logitech wheel mouse, but that's not about zoom. –Be..anyone (talk) 23:43, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
No problem, I'll look around for a better add-on or get used to the Firefox default functions ;). Thanks again for your help. GermanJoe (talk) 23:56, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

## Why does "Template:Current Florida statewide political officials" list non Floridians?

This template: Template:Current Florida statewide political officials

For the links to the template, the wiki system lists a variety of politicians that are not from the US state of Florida, and also the Florida template is not obviously on the individuals' wikipedia article page, even via a redirect. See here:
(links to the Florida statewide political officials template)

Can anyone state what is going on, and how to correct the improper links to non-Florida people?
-- Yellowdesk (talk) 21:39, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Some of these pages link to that template indirectly via another template. For example, {{Current Minnesota statewide political officials}} includes a link to the equivalent Florida template, which is why MN officials like Governor Mark Dayton show up in your list. You can exclude those by using the "Hide links" button, which will then only show transclusions (articles that have the FL template). Mamyles (talk) 21:40, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
• OK, I'm desiring to de-link these superfluous links. Makes no sense to have them, from my view. I am looking at the Minnesota template, I cannot find a link. Can you educate me, Mamyles ?
Yellowdesk (talk) 21:56, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
All 50 state templates transclude {{Current statewide political officials footer}} at the bottom for navigation to the other states. I don't see a good reason to change that. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:09, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
WP:NAVBOX is probably a good reason. --Izno (talk) 04:45, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
Many navboxes have links to related navboxes at the top or bottom. 50 links may sound like a lot but the official two-letter state abbreviations means it doesn't use a lot of space. {{Current statewide political officials footer}} is four years old and only used for this purpose so it shouldn't be removed from 50 templates without discusion. There is no point in removing it from one or two and keeping it in the rest so a removal would be equivalent to deletion and should be discussed at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion. PrimeHunter (talk) 10:54, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

## One (but only one) item in a list is failing to sort properly

I'm stumped as to why. See here: 1. Hit count twice and watch Incubator rise to the top. The rest come up in order. What could cause this? The numbers of left-padded with zeroes with padleft if that helps. 00:44, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Note that the Wikimedia Labs item also fails to sort properly (is x2, but lists in the middle of x0). After looking for awhile I'm still not able to decipher what exactly {{Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Templates/Index item}} does, but I'm guessing that's a good thing to look deeper into. Mamyles (talk) 01:49, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
I'm not going through all the templates and modules to work out how the sortkey is generated but maybe the following can help you. You can use Special:ExpandTemplates to see the generated code. The Incubator sortkey is 03823. I notice Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Templates/Index item says x3823 on the template page. Swedish Wikipedia also sorts incorrectly. It has sortkey 00003. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:49, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
Just checking, but should the Incubator parameters have a defined "search_string" too? That parameter is missing in the incubator definition, and the sort value calculation uses this value in the sub-template for counting. GermanJoe (talk) 02:08, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
Excellent observation - that fixed the Incubator entry's sorting. Wikimedia Labs or Swedish Wikipedia still has a problem though. Mamyles (talk) 02:20, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
Regarding the remaining minor glitches: Sorting and display use different search tags (sorting depends on the "search_string" parameter, display counts the "tag" parameter). Maybe those minor differences (lowercase <-> uppercase, 2 words <-> 1 word) in some Wiki names lead to different count results. GermanJoe (talk) 02:30, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
Beat me to it. The template Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/Templates/Index item was using tag instead of search string, for some reason, resulting in the wrong number being displayed for a number of wikis. Think I've fixed it in this revision. Mamyles (talk) 02:32, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
@Mamyles, GermanJoe, and PrimeHunter: Thanks for the assist, after copy-pasting this stuff for an hour I was a little bug-eyed. 03:22, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

## Location of picture in SN 1987A

In SN 1987A, there is a left-aligned picture in the SN 1987A#Progenitor. However, it doesn't display until the reference section, and it's displaying somehow behind the text of the references. What gives? This problem happens in monobook and vector. The picture displays a bit differently depending on your zoom level, but it always displays after all the other (right-aligned) images. 01:23, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

An image on one side of the page will not display any higher than the top of the previous image on the other side of the page. Instead of having three images directly after the infobox, try spacing them out throughout the article, or at least after the left-floated image. - Evad37 [talk] 01:57, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
Fixed with {{Stack}}.[49] PrimeHunter (talk) 02:00, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

## Merging / reorganizing tiny Talk archives?

I was looking at the talk page for Talk:4G, and it's really strange. There's monthly archives, with maybe one post in them, and no discussions of anything. After poking around a bit I see that when archiving was first implemented, the person that did it, set a 180 hr archiving period (7.5 days) and monthly archiving.

It doesn't get enough activity to need that heavy-handed archiving rate, and I think this high speed arciving is probably killing off discussion by archiving issues so fast. I've changed the bot archiving speed to 90 days now to slow it down, though the archiving should also probably be yearly.

Is it possible to merge the tiny 2012/13/14/15 monthly Talk archives into year archives?

I also noticed the "2012/January" archive actually has nothing from January, it's all 2011 and earlier from before archiving started. I tried moving it to a new name to reflect that (Talk:4G/Archives/2011_and_earlier) but it's still shown in the Talk archive list as 2012/January. I'm stopping here. I don't know how the Talk archive list box works, I don't want to bork it trying to reorganize for the better.

-- DMahalko (talk) 21:44, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

@DMahalko: I've merged the monthly archives into Talk:4G/Archive 2, instructed ClueBot III to archive the talk page by number rather than by date, and made it so that there need to be more than five threads on the page for the bot to archive it. I've also removed ClueBot III's archive box and advertisement, as it's not necessary. Graham87 14:11, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

## Error deleting file

I am attempting to delete File:'Appetite For Construction' Album Cover.jpg. When I try, I get, "Error deleting file: Could not delete file "mwstore://local-swift-eqiad/local-public/archive/e/ef/20150401060250!'Appetite_For_Construction'_Album_Cover.jpg"." Any ideas? --B (talk) 04:56, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Looks to me like a bug. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 07:34, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
After moving it to an other name, I had no trouble deleting it. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 07:35, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
Created a bug report - phab:T96498. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 08:19, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

## I would like the following template on my user page

Not the "Are you my friend" part. This shows whether Cyberpower678 is online, but not me. I often forget to update my status since it has to be done manually. I would like something to show I might be online but forgot.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:23, 9 April 2015 (UTC)

I cannot help you concerning this matter, but should you like to see the last activity of other users at one glance, you might be interested in this script. The documentation is in German, but the script works here (in English), too. Transclusion using
importScriptURI("//de.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Schnark/js/letzteredit.js" + "&action=raw&ctype=text/javascript");
--Leyo 20:41, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
That's not exactly what he's looking for. He's looking for a way to show his inactivity to everyone else without having to update his page.—cyberpowerChat:Online 21:40, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
I am fully aware of this. --Leyo 22:04, 9 April 2015 (UTC)
C678 explained on his/her talk page the templates involved are too complicated to explain. For me, that's probably true. Thanks for trying.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 16:24, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
• They're often too complicated for CP too... I've spent a bit of time poking around at them trying to make them HTML5 compliant. If you want to try to set it all up, pay attention to what he has set up and what transcludes what else (there are a couple trick ones in there). You'll learn some template lessons and don't worry about if you get stuck, just ask for help with whatever you are stuck on my talk page or CPs. ;) — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 22:08, 14 April 2015 (UTC)

## Oversight question

Since one can download all revisions, all pages of Wikipedia, is it possible to compare versions of that download to see what has been changed by oversight? If it is possible, is anybody doing that? More specifically, if I ask for some pretty old identifying information to be oversighted from my real account, am I actually bringing more attention to it? Njfma5piii3gymb (talk) 00:40, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

I seem to recall some instances. Initial treatment with admin deletion (delete/restore or revdel) can make things less interesting in this respect. -- zzuuzz (talk) 02:08, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
It's perfectly possible, assuming the oversighted information is old enough that a database download would contain it. To make things wworse, it would presumably be possible to write a program to compare the dump with the extant Wikipedia data, and find these revisions that way. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 03:27, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
But then you remember how many hundreds of Gigabytes of information are in these dumps and on the live wiki and what pointless results you would get... An occasional phone number? Maybe someones email? I bit of negative BLP? EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 00:25, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
Here we come to the difference between possible and plausable. Yes, it's possible to get all oversighted revisions which survived for long enough to end up in a dump; however, it's not plausable that someone would go through all that effort of having software sift through millions of revisions to find the few hidden ones. If you're asking about getting a specific revision which someone noticed in a page history, I think that may be plausable. עוד מישהו Od Mishehu 06:02, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

## Oddity when clicking on the notes links

No matter which letter I click on at the List of Murdoch Mysteries episodes#Notes I get taken to note "c" next to the date April 7, 2014 in the "Death of Dr. Ogden" episode listing. It is probably something simple but I am not sure how to fix this. Any help will be appreciated. MarnetteD|Talk 21:17, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

Suppose, this edit fixed the issue. --Edgars2007 (talk/contribs) 10:26, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
One of the reasons Footnote3 is deprecated. -- 10:39, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

## Albert de Louvain

Page says can translate from French wiki but is not linked to French Wiki page and cannot be. When you try, it says "The page you wanted to link with is already attached to an item on the central data repository which links to Albert of Louvain on this site. Items can only have one page per site attached. Please choose a different page to link with." If you click on the imbedded link to item it takes you here [50]. How does one link the pages together properly? SusunW (talk) 04:15, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

The two English pages about Albert of Louvain/Albert de Louvain need to be merged; I've tagged them as such. Once this is done, the Wikidata entry can be updated if need be. Graham87 08:33, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. SusunW (talk) 12:26, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

## Tech News: 2015-17

15:31, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

## Is SineBot playing up?

See these two edits at the help desk: First a new contributor, User:Deadroses posts a question, omitting to sign. [63] Then SineBot steps in, signing the post as 'User:Webbe' - a non-existent account. Very strange... [64] AndyTheGrump (talk) 02:55, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

SineBot was right. Webbe was renamed to Deadroses after the SineBot edit.[65]. PrimeHunter (talk) 03:09, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Praemonitus (talk · contribs) is having trouble using the 'Add links' entry under the Languages section to add non-English language links to an article. Please offer advice here. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:35, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

## Article count is off?

Recently there was an issue of a sudden article count jump. Now the article count seems to be moving too slow: 4.856 million, which would imply that only 7,000 articles have been created this month. Since the article creation rate is normally 20-30k per month, either it has slowed down considerably, or the article counter is not working correctly. GregorB (talk) 17:11, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

## M is for Mystified

Why is the thumbnail for M not showing up like N? The full size picture appears with no problem. Same issue on Simple. --NeilN talk to me 20:44, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

It works for me in Firefox. What is your browser? Does it look like an image might be there but your browser is unable to display it? PrimeHunter (talk) 20:54, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
I have Firefox 37.0.1 - the upper box contains a blue link to the file that looks like M cursiva.gif, and not the image. --Redrose64 (talk) 21:00, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Sounds like a thumbnail cache problem - those usually depend on what size you have thumbnails set to display in your preferences. (It appears fine for me, and I have them set to display at 300px.) Now if only I could remember how you clear the thumbnail cache... — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 21:04, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
And sure enough, setting my thumbnail size to 220px causes the M thumbnail to not display properly. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 21:08, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Purging the file's description page (on Commons) seems to have fixed it. Jackmcbarn (talk) 21:15, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Jackmcbarn, thanks! --NeilN talk to me 21:42, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

## Wikipedia and ISPs

Occasionally I have seen persistent Wikipedia vandals warned along the lines of "We will report you to your ISP and they will block your Internet access". It surprises me greatly that any ISP would block someone's Internet access merely on the basis of a complaint from Wikipedia. Has there ever been a case of this happening, or any realistic prospect of it ever happening, or are such warnings just empty threats? (I am asking out of curiosity, but I would like to make it clear that I have never vandalised Wikipedia myself, nor do I have any intention of ever doing so.) 86.188.80.40 (talk) 13:59, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

Per WP:BEANS this will probably not be answered —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 17:48, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Wikipedia would never ask an ISP to block. We have our own internal protocols to to deal with this sort of thing.--Aspro (talk) 19:35, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
ISP's have been contacted. See Wikipedia:Abuse response. PrimeHunter (talk) 19:46, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
Do you know with what outcome? 86.150.71.4 (talk) 19:22, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
Yes.
It's important to remember that "ISP" in this context means one of four things: the ISP for a home or small business; the IT department for a school or library; the IT department for a large business; and the IT department for a government agency. Some react and some don't. From the school and library category, I know that some students have received stern warnings. In the third category, the response may depend on whether the contact is about spam or about other problems. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:50, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
Can "ISP" really mean an IT department for a business, agency or school? Is that standard usage of the term? I can believe that organisations' IT departments may possibly respond in some way if contacted directly about abuse of computers they are responsible for. What I can't believe is that what I would call an "ISP" (i.e. a telecoms company) would discontinue all Internet service to a customer on the basis of a complaint from Wikipedia. I wouldn't be surprised if in my country it would even be illegal for them to do so (at least, not without a complicated legal process involving wider issues). That is what the warnings that I referred to appeared to me to be implying. 86.150.71.4 (talk) 17:08, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
In practice, "an ISP" is whatever's in between you and the next upstream provider, and is providing you with a way to reach the rest of the internet. There are many university networks that are at least as large as the "telecom-style" ISP I use at home, and more than a few corporate networks dwarf it.
Not only is it "legal" to cancel accounts for any violation of the contract (are you giving out your wifi password too freely for their taste? Did you set up a low-traffic e-mail server in your home even though your contract specifies "no servers"?), there are some US laws that may require it under certain circumstances.[66] Copyright violations are one of those. It's also normal to disconnect service for spam. I don't know if the UK has similar laws, but even the most heavily regulated telecom-style ISP will have the right to cancel your internet service if you violate the terms of your contract with them. Whether something like spamming Wikipedia will "count" as a contract violation will depend on the contract. WhatamIdoing (talk) 07:34, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
I also don't know if the UK has similar laws, but some of our broadband suppliers include conditions like these. See for instance the Terms and Conditions for Plusnet Residential Services, particularly section "Plusnet Residential Standard Terms" items 16 and 22. --Redrose64 (talk) 12:52, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

## Obsolete <big>...</big> in the Edit toolbar

So I notice you are big into implementing HTML 5 compliancy (a good thing), and I wondered if you could explain why the wikitext edit box still provides users to option to use <big>...</big> if it is now deprecated (Wikipedia:HTML5#big). Shouldn't it be replaced with {{Big}} or <span style>...</span >, or is there a reason that I should know why it hasn't. Thanks in advance! EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 05:48, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
• I'm not sure which "wikitext edit box" you are referring to. I may have it turned off or hidden somehow by my use of WP:wikEd. If it is an interface thing, I can't personally change it but I know that Edokter, Redrose64 or any one of the other administrators who have worked on similar interface pages (MediaWiki:Edittools) would be happy to remove it or update it to something appropriate. — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 13:12, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
To be exact, the <big>...</big> element is marked as obsolete in HTML5, which is stronger than deprecated. It's not in Edittools - which these days is loaded from MediaWiki:Gadget-charinsert-core.js (and is still discussed at MediaWiki talk:Edittools). --Redrose64 (talk) 13:21, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
I was referring to Help:Edit toolbar under the advanced tab. I thought this was turned on for everyone, but maybe it is just a default on for newer users? Directly above the edit window for me, under the advanced tab. EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 13:36, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
I think that it's part of the MediaWiki software, and so I don't think that it's locally configurable; you could ask at WP:VPT. --Redrose64 (talk) 14:14, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
mw:Extension:WikiEditor to be exact, and yes, it is customizable (in JavaScript). I agree 'big (A+)' is somewhat 'anachronistic', and probably should be replaced. This is best raised in Phabricator. For now, while obsoloete, it is still in use on meany pages and is therefor still whiltelisted. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 16:12, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
• Ugh... Okay. Yeah, I'll see what I can do to fix that. Thanks for the information of where it is Edokter. I'll see if I can't work up a patch for the extension tomorrow or Sunday. This should be a really easy on to do. Would you suggest it should be updated to <span style="font-size: larger;">...</span> as that is the css the most closely resembles the effect of <big>...</big> (yes, I realize how it is rendered is browser specific, but so is the big tag itself). — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 16:21, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

To confirm, is this locally configurable or should this instead be put in Phabricator? EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 14:40, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

See above; it should be raised in Phab to find a suitable replacement (probably using a span). Local versions may be customized to call {{big}} instead. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 16:21, 17 April 2015 (UTC)
It is already tracked since 2012, but it is considered low priority. Helder 19:20, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

## Template doc: why that intimidating useless bar?

About {{High-use}}: can someone please turn this into a sidebar box, by default, instead of a being an affonting intimidating useless intro? Really, not a single editor comes to {{Convert}} to change the template. So why warn them, this intimidating way? They come to the documentation page to use the template. -DePiep (talk) 21:38, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Good point. Helder 02:31, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
I have an idea. Ignore it. It shouldn't affect you then. It's just a simple reminder to those who do edit templates to use the sandbox and carefully preview. The notice also follows the standard page notice setup. 90% of people reading a Wikipedia article come to read it, not edit it, but they are still displayed the big notices at the top of articles too. EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 02:38, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
EoRdE6, yes I can ignore it, now tell that to the visiting editors ('readers'). And to be honest, your reply reads like an ignore the question. Never met that before. -DePiep (talk) 18:25, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
Template space arent for readers - its for editors - and the message is a warning not to edit it without consensus on the talk page (for template editors/admins) and an explanation why the rest of us cant edit the high risk 800 transclusion template. Christian75 (talk) 18:39, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
Most editors do not edit templates. Maybe we could convert it into an edit notice? Alakzi (talk) 18:43, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
re Chris75: visitor of a template home page, like this, are 99% article editors who want to apply the template, not to edit it. No need to scare them off with a big bad irreleant bar. Already, the Lua and Translate notices have sided nicely already in my demo link. -DePiep (talk) 18:57, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
Click it. The BANG takes six lines. -DePiep (talk) 19:23, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
And let's not forget: Christian75 always throws shit at me without even reading the question. -DePiep (talk) 23:27, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
@DePiep: - Please document that, og revert your edit. Christian75 (talk) 10:05, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
The idea that it is intimidating is nonsense. It is a thin yellow box with text and a picture of an exclamation point. Now, if it were a huge red box with lots of text and bolded lines, that would be another thing. As far as not really needing it, well, okay. I wouldn't mind seeing it in an edit notice instead. But there shouldn't be a hubbub about it, either way. Killiondude (talk) 00:24, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
• The reason I think the box should stay is that I hate protected pages1, and after template editor was introduced a lot of templates are "template editor protected". Before the new level of power was introduced, they would have been semi-protected or not protected at all. The high-risk, and high-use boxes shows that this is a page which "everybody cant edit" despite the "slogan" of Wikipedia. 1I fully understand a template with 40.000 transclusion should be protected Christian75 (talk) 10:05, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
Suggestion, full protection, because everything that might need "frequent" updates is already in a separate /doc subpage, and full protection has a nice icon (page status indicator) not needing extraneous prose. JFTR, I passionately hate pointless full protections, but a finished template is finished, period. –Be..anyone (talk) 13:40, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Template protection has got nothing to do with whether a template is "finished". Templates are protected in cases where a vandal or a well-meaning - but inexperienced - template editor could cause widespread disruption; see WP:HRT. Alakzi (talk) 13:47, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
That's what I said, semi-protection plus allegedly affronting intimidating useless intro has the same purpose as full protection without intro. –Be..anyone (talk) 14:03, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

## Not Staying Logged In

For the last few days I've been having problems where if I'm inactive for a while, I get logged out and have to log back in, even if I checked the remember me box. At first I thought it was being caused by Huggle, but even on my laptop, which doesn't even have Huggle, I'm having the same problem. I asked Apparition11 if he was having any issues, but he's fine, so I wanted to see if anyone else was having this issue and/or what the issue could be. It's localized only to Wikipedia, as I'm staying logged in just fine (provided I checked the remember me box, which I did) on my other sites like YouTube, Facebook, and my forums. - Amaury (talk) 19:09, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

@Amaury: I've been having the same issue too on both my computers. It's not just you. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE
) 19:49, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
Glad to hear it's not only me. - Amaury (talk) 19:52, 20 April 2015 (UTC)
Happening here too. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 20:35, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

This is probably related to SUL finalization, see my comment here. Sorry about the trouble, it'll be over soon :) Legoktm (talk) 14:44, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Thank you, Legoktm! Keep us updated. :) - Amaury (talk) 16:03, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
I believe that SUL finalization finished about half an hour ago. Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 07:13, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

## {{math|R}} and {{math|C}} are not viewable in mobile view

It looks like there is nothing there. —User 000 name 09:11, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Now that's what I call an imaginary unit! (I'll get my coat.) — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 10:29, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Seriously, though, the Math is showing up for me there on Ubuntu/Firefox. Perhaps it's a browser or device issue - which were you viewing it with? — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 10:31, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
I guess you wrote "{{math|R}} and {{math|C}}" because you had trouble writing what the article actually says: "{{math|ℝ}} and {{math|ℂ}}" which renders as " and ". If we skip the {{math}} part then we are left with the characters "ℝ and ℂ". On a desktop computer with Firefox I see the right symbols in all cases at both the desktop and mobile view. I guess your mobile device does not support those characters, Double-Struck Capital R and Double-Struck Capital C at Letterlike Symbols. I see all characters there except Fax Sign (), Double-Struck Small Pi (), Per Sign (), Symbol for Samaritan Source (). In those cases Firefox displays a square with the Unicode number. Maybe your device shows nothing when it encounters unsupported characters. Just to be clear, I assume you are not saying that you see the characters at the desktop view https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_unit and they are only missing at the mobile view https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_unit? PrimeHunter (talk) 10:50, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
{{math}} does nothing in mobile view (which will have to be rectified). That means whatever device you are viewing it on simply does not support the characters ℝ and ℂ. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 11:34, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Anything that {{math}} does right now is purely decorative anyways. The content should be visible, if you have a mobile device that is shipped with half a decent font set at least. :) —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:43, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Just tested mobile view on Android; they fail to show, meaning native font support is lacking. With {{math}} in desktop view however, at least it falls back to a serif font. So it is not purely decorative. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 12:31, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Scrap that... Somehow, these characters will only show in desktop view, and only in {{math}}, and I don't know why. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 13:25, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Serif vs sans-serif font-family is what probably would make the difference between desktop and mobile. It might be that the font fallback works different if only one type of font has the glyph. We set texhtml to have an explicit serif font-family on Desktop view. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 15:59, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
I know, I created it. I tested all permutations of the serif declaration, and still Android refuses to display ℝ and ℂ in all of them. The fallback only works with the full font stack on desktop view, but not on mobile view. There should be no difference. -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 07:41, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

## I need a character that does nothing

I know I've seen this on one of the help pages but I have no idea where to look. I discovered a situation where I need a character, which I can put between two other characters, which will not appear but will change what those two characters do.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 22:17, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

"does nothing ... will change" sounds contradictory. Maybe you want something in Category:Control characters. We may be able to say more if you say which type of change you want, or describe the problem you are trying to solve. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:52, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
If this is for MediaWiki's parser, then putting <nowiki/> between the two other characters should do what you want. Jackmcbarn (talk) 22:58, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks. I used <nowiki> ... </nowiki>, but I thought there was a neater solution.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 23:05, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
Looking at the other solution, I may have been looking for Zero-width space. The specific problem is that [sic] is the proper way to use "sic", but I wanted a wikilink (sic) for anyone who might wonder what that meant.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 23:09, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
How about {{sic}}, which gives [sic]?--JohnBlackburnewordsdeeds 23:13, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
That's it! Thank you. I was thinking there ought to be a template since people will run into that, and there was. And I see you did the fix for me too.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 16:01, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

## Category Watchlists

So currently; when you add a category to your watchlist you get notified of changes to the text on the category page. Is there anyway to watchlist a category so you get notified of changes to the contents of the category? i.e. when pages are added to or removed from the category? ~ ONUnicorn(Talk|Contribs)problem solving 15:43, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

No. But many of us would like that. --Redrose64 (talk) 15:58, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
And have wanted so for very long... -- [[User:Edokter]] {{talk}} 16:18, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
There is no native way to do this through the watchlist, but check out Related Changes on the Tool Lab. It is by far my favourite tool, as I use it to check whole category trees for changes on Commons. It'll work here too. Once you plug in the information you want, you can save the resulting URL to easily check later on that tree with your specific settings. You can see how I've done this on my Commons userpage on the right side. If you have any questions on how to operate it, leave a note on my talk page. Huntster (t @ c) 16:21, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
There is a tool at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Ais523/catwatch which will show additions to cats. Not perfect, but I do use it...Naraht (talk) 17:08, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Yes, I gave that one a try, but found it simply wasn't up to par compared to Related Changes, but perhaps others will enjoy it. Huntster (t @ c) 18:04, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
There is currently a RFC for a suggested implementation, see mw:Requests for comment/Watch Categorylinks and phab:T94414. --Sitic (talk) 17:45, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

## Zooming in and out results in many spaces between sections

I went to a random page (Selma Bajrami (album)) and zoomed in 400% to find the color of the text. When I pressed "ctrl+0" to go back to 100% zoom I thought that someone vandalized the page. —User 000 name 04:56, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Zooming is controlled by the browser and not Wikipedia. I tested Selma Bajrami (album) in five browsers on Windows Vista. The problem was in Chrome and Safari, but not in Firefox, IE and Opera. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:06, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
The problem appears to only occur after columns (not table columns) are used. When Chrome and Safari go back from a high zoom they apparently don't know where the column text ends, so they display a lot of whitespace after the last text in the columns. This often means the columns become so long that all the text is in the first column, and there can also be whitespace at the end of that column. The page layout is fixed if the page is reloaded. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:28, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Since it seems to only occur in the Personnel and References sections, both of which are formatted as two-column lists, I'd agree with that expln. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:38, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

## Image alt text: can be with the image

Resolved

-- wrong forum. -DePiep (talk) 18:21, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

As far as I understand the WP:ALT TEXT topic: there could be a default alt-text (per language) for each image. In any article, an editor can overwrite that default all right. (personally, I find it tiresome to having to re-read the alt-text essence again and again to get it, and then having to re-enter my same(?) handcrafted text for an image). -DePiep (talk) 19:25, 18 April 2015 (UTC)

Where does it say (or imply) that "there could be a default alt-text (per language) for each image"? ―Mandruss  19:41, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
Not "it" says so, it is "me" saying (suggesting) so.
For example (using the file from said WP:ALT TEXT). File:Jacques-Louis David 017.jpg, can have the alt-text "The Emperor Napoleon in His Study at the Tuileries" at commons, for lang=en, by default. In an article at enwiki about "Napoleon's career", an editor could overwrite this default by using good old |alt=Painting of Napoleon the day after he became Emperor (in 1804). -DePiep (talk) 20:25, 18 April 2015 (UTC)
@DePiep: Oh, you're making a proposal for a change. For that, you might get more response at Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals). ―Mandruss  09:09, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
Get it, will go to the right forum (coined it! ;-) ). -DePiep (talk) 18:21, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

This idea has been proposed by me and others before, but hasn't gotten enough support to be implemented to date. See Phabricator bug T21906. --agr (talk) 02:25, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

## User:UBX -> User:UBX~enwiki Broke Everything

Ok so we seem to have an issue here. User:UBX was automatically renamed to User:UBX~enwiki, resulting in all 7,243 subpages being moved with no redirects thus breaking 7,243 userbox templates (like the one on my userpage). Any idea what to do now? EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 02:57, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

There is probably a more graceful solution, but could we get a bot run approved to create the 7k redirects? Monty845 03:00, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
• Why can't we get a steward or global renamer and rename the account back and move them back? — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 03:18, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
It broke more than just UBX. I was using a User:Christopher template on my userpage which also broke, so I had to creat a redirect. Dustin (talk) 03:19, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Well then who is supposed to be managing this stuff, are any of these ideas feasible? EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) — Preceding undated comment added 03:25, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the ping. There are many feasible options/ideas. Bot, AWB, there are several ways to solve this on the community end.
The global User:UBX is owned by @Liangent: on the Chinese Wikipedia, but it's not being used. Liangent, would you be willing to have the zhwiki account renamed and then I can rename UBX~enwiki back to UBX? That would probably be the easiest solution. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 03:58, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
After talking it over with Liangent and Legoktm on IRC, renaming back and forth probably isn't going to be the best option, so we have a quick bot request instead. We'll get this cleaned up :) Keegan (WMF) (talk) 04:36, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

There was absolutely nothing wrong with using User:UBX so why change it? Also, I've also been noticing "REDIRECTS" showing up in some of my userboxes. If somebody could let me know what's going on, it would be great. You can leave a message on my talk page, please. Gregdox (talk) 03:34, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

This is all due to SUL finalization. Eleven years in the making, the process is unfortunately bound to cause some temporary issues. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 03:58, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Hmm, I guess User:Mets501 didn't have a confirmed email address set up on that account and forgot he had this account :( —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 07:41, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Legobot has moved most of them back, a few were blocked by the titleblacklist. If someone could take care of those manually, that would be appreciated. Legoktm (talk) 08:07, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

I'll do those ones. Hang on a sec... — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 09:25, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Ok, all done now. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 09:37, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Nope. User:UBX/water is broken on my page. The others on the page are fine. Akld guy (talk) 09:47, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
@Akld guy: That's probably just because the job queue is still catching up. Try purging the page - that should fix it. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 09:50, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

On editing User:UBX, I get a "User account "UBX" is not registered" message. I'll try to get Liangent to visit enwiki using their UBX account to fix that. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 10:03, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Purge worked instantaneously at 10:03. TYVM! Akld guy (talk) 10:06, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
• Very nice. Thanks to all for the quick action to rectify this! Swarm we ♥ our hive 15:01, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

...and now A WMF bot has nuked USER:Example. :( --Guy Macon (talk) 16:08, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

I fixed this one. Cenarium (talk) 16:44, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
It is now - the account is now created on this wiki. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 08:42, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

## Updating graph on Wikipedia editor retention

File:Enwp retention vs active editors.png is a very interesting, helpful and often used image. It is also very, very old: it shows data for up to 2009. User:Howief_(WMF) who uploaded it was asked if he can update it several times over the past few years but it seems he cannot do it (at least, he is not replying to those requests, see commons:User_talk:Howief_(WMF)#Update_reqeuest). Perhaps someone else could help? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:19, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Indirect answer, click on the image, go to commons if you are not already on commons, click on "more uses" in the global uses, click on 500 to get rid of the enwiki uses at the begin, scroll down to strategy wiki, and now, if you know that this is a frozen read-only historical wiki, with a finished frozen strategy:Editor Trends Study page based on polls and interviews, the data for a fresher image simply might not exist. –Be..anyone (talk) 12:44, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Improving editor retention is one of the WMF's main focuses and it's been a driving force behind a lot of their software development and community activities. The suggestion that editor retention data hasn't been monitored recently is very disturbing. This graph should be update-able at the drop of a hat. Public scripts to do that would have been a great asset from this study, not only do update the graphs but to scrutinize the implementation of the method. I wonder if the code to do so in in the github link for Research:WikiPride, which is, I guess, the project that originally made the graph. I haven't followed the topic of editor retention in depth so I'm not sure. (As an aside, the reason I haven't followed it is because, in general, I'd prefer seeing the WMF focus almost exclusively on making the software/hardware side of the project great. If that is great, they've done the best they should to encourage editors will come and stay. This "build it and they will come" approach would streamline the WMF's focus and maximize the usage of a lot of donated money. The rest of the equation regarding editor retention is dependent on the community itself and the WMF trying to change that component is largely futile.) Jason Quinn (talk) 20:40, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Is there a precise description of what was measured for retention rate? My guess would be
(number of editors making at least 5 edits in month X who also made a least one edit in month X+12) / (number of editors making at least 5 edits in month X)
But that's just a guess, add one could imagine a variety other definitions, e.g. requiring at least 5 edits in month X+12, or counting it as retention is any edit was made from X+12 to present. It is not a hard thing to program, though it would take a while to run. Dragons flight (talk) 22:49, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Approximate fraction of active editors that remain active in the following month
The image at right roughly estimates what fraction of the active editor population is retained month-to-month (about 80%) and suggests that this value has been fairly stable for most of Wikipedia's history. It's not exactly what you asked about, but it would suggest there probably hasn't been large changes in 1-year retention. Dragons flight (talk) 23:34, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

## User:Example

the SUL finalization killed User:Example, can this be fixed? It's referenced so many places :(. Thanks! Kharkiv07Talk 16:22, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

Fixed. Kharkiv07Talk 16:34, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
Make an exception for U2. Cenarium (talk) 15:00, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
@Cenarium: Do you mean User:U2? That doesn't seem to be a pseudo-account like User:UBX or User:Example. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 15:21, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
He means Wikipedia:Criteria_for_speedy_deletion#U2 Christian75 (talk) 15:26, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
I edit conflicted with you just as I realised. Sorry about that... — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 15:39, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
• @Cenarium: Making it an exception for U2 doesn't help when anyone (or the global user who may have no connection to the local user page's purpose) can freely register this username. Per the UBX section above, looks like Mr. Stradivarius found a solution for that issue. Steel1943 (talk) 17:40, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
• Not anyone can create that account. It is already taken (even I couldn't create it as an account creator). — {{U|Technical 13}} (e • t • c) 17:52, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
• The global account Example is locked, so it can't be created locally. Cenarium (talk) 17:58, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
• Okay, I suspected that the SUL conversion worked in that manner. My concern has been resolved ... except if there are other global account that conflict with an existing user name/page set that needs to remain for technical purposes. Steel1943 (talk) 18:07, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
When software upgrades break basic functionality, the correct answer is to fix the software, not try to find a workaround. The WMF needs to make it so that certain usernames are exempt from unified log in. I will make a proposal to do exactly that. --Guy Macon (talk) 13:47, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
This exists at m:Title blacklist, and it's community managed. The WMF does not manage account names and what's permissible. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 19:22, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
• Ironically, I thought that adding these names to the title blacklist would have been the resolution as well. Assuming that the Titleblacklist also prevents global account users from creating accounts on wikis which they have not registered yet, two issues would still remain: 1) The user of the global account could, in theory, have a very valid reason for wanting to claim the name on the wiki where they have not registered yet, but be blocked from doing so due to the blacklisting of their username's creation and 2) The community here on the English Wikipedia has a speedy deletion criterion designated criterion U2 that, in its current wording, would technically make pages (not redirects) of users not registered locally eligible for speedy deletion (which is the end result of these SUL migrations, given that the name that had to be moved is no longer registered after the move.) Steel1943 (talk) 19:53, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
I'm familiar with the speedy deletion criteria :) Sure, as worded now that means pages may be eligible, which is not the same as must be deleted. It seems like tweaking the wording in the policy would rectify this; policies can be amended/clarified after all. As to the first point, I do think we're talking about far, far edge cases here and I think bringing up the discussion on the title blacklist talk page might have some fruitful solutions. Guy said that the WMF needs to make sure certain names are exempt, and I'm rebutting that: that is a community matter, not a WMF matter. Communities control what is and what is not allowed as far as usernames go. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 20:37, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
A more elegant way of doing it might be to keep a list of pseudo-users whose user pages shouldn't be moved. For these users the local account could be automatically created with the new global account owner after the bot renames the old account. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 15:21, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
This wasn't a software upgrade. This had nothing to do with software. This had to do with consolidating a broken username database system. These "breakages" as a result are actually just breaking hacks that were put in place due to an already broken system. Now that the system is fixed, these hacks can be as well. Keegan (WMF) (talk) 19:20, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
What about User talk:User 2User talk:User 2~enwiki? Not as widely used, but still a purely example account. EoRdE6(Come Talk to Me!) 18:47, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Only the user talk page was ever created (and that was by the SUL migration bot) so I don't think any action is necessary. — Mr. Stradivarius ♪ talk ♪ 08:46, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

## Color change on infobox doesn't show up on most articles

Hi all, the box:

still shows up as blue on things like Culture of Pittsburgh and Pittsburgh metropolitan area. Any reason why? Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 07:12, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Looks like this was resolved a few hours later (a minute or two after I posted this) but interested to see if others are having this lag problem with this or other infoboxes. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 07:12, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Be patient; the job queue will eventually get round to updating all the pages. You can force an update to any particular page by "purging" it, as I did at Pittsburgh metropolitan area. -- John of Reading (talk) 07:25, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Thank you for that very specific answer, much appreciation! I can wait, just good to know that its in the 'pipeline'. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 08:10, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Yes, WP:PURGE will normally fix the appearance of a transclusion, although it won't fix incorrect categorisation. BTW it's not an infobox but a navbox. --Redrose64 (talk) 10:01, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks Redrose64, I'm just thankful I didn't call it a hexagonal circle. Market St.⧏ ⧐ Diamond Way 06:11, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

## Adding coordinate field to Template:Reqphoto

Is anyone interested in adding a coordinate feature to Template:Reqphoto? I want the ability to add specific coordinates to a photo request so the requests properly show up in OSM. See: Template_talk:Image_requested#Coordinates_for_individual_photo_requests.3F.

Example: The coordinates at The Japanese School of New York reflect the school's current location in Connecticut, but I want to be able to add specific coordinates to the photo requests for the school's former campuses in Queens so they can show up in the New York City OSM photo map. WhisperToMe (talk) 16:15, 23 April 2015 (UTC)

Paging Mr. --Tagishsimon (talk) 23:44, 23 April 2015 (UTC)
This will require integration with the osm4wiki tool. I can't comment further without having inspected its source code. You might wanna get in touch with either of the authors, de:User:Plenz and de:User:Kolossos. Alakzi (talk) 00:40, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Thanks for the tip! I notified both users about this discussion. WhisperToMe (talk) 03:29, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Sounds like a good idea. We can also ping User:Kolossos on this project. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 11:04, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

## Getting rid of "my sandbox"?

Hi, how do I disable the new "sandbox" in my top right hand personal link bar? According to Help:My sandbox it is a gadget and I would be able to switch it on or off in the preferences. But the link there is missing. --h-stt !? 09:49, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Place li#pt-sandbox { display: none; } in your CSS. Help:My sandbox is obsolete. The sandbox link changed from a gadget to a MediaWiki feature in an extension. PrimeHunter (talk) 09:55, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
THX for the quick reply. --h-stt !? 10:19, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 136#Sandbox link --Redrose64 (talk) 11:00, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
I have updated Help:My sandbox.[67] I noticed the current feature didn't preload a red Sandbox link with {{User sandbox}} like the old gadget did, so I have created MediaWiki:Sandboxlink-preload-pagename to make the same preload. mw:Extension:SandboxLink also enables us to make an editintro with MediaWiki:Sandboxlink-editintro-pagename. Should we do that? PrimeHunter (talk) 11:29, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
PrimeHunter, Re the first paragraph of the Help:My sandbox. Where it appears probably depends on which skin. I have Modern, and the Sandbox is in the upper left on mine. — Maile (talk)
Help pages often assume the default skin. Users who change skin probably tend to have some experience and know that their skin can change the page layout. MonoBook is the most common alternative to Vector and doesn't change the placement of the Sandbox link. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:18, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Is it possible to add a custom link to that toolbar? Kharkiv07Talk 12:41, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Well I wanted to eventually be able to link to my "dashboard" (User:Kharkiv07/Dashboard) easier. Kharkiv07Talk 15:39, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Put the below in your common JavaScript. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:10, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
mw.util.addPortletLink(
'p-personal',
'Dashboard',
't-dashboard',
'Show my dashboard',
null,
'#pt-preferences'
);
Thanks a ton! Kharkiv07Talk 16:32, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

## Problems

I've been having problems with Twinkle (?). This morning a block warning wouldn't go up and some error note came up, and then I found I added it twice. I had something similar last night. Just now something popped up after an AfD, though the AfD seems to have gone correctly: "Adding discussion to today's list: Failed to save edit: [ce5a25aa] Exception Caught: wfDiff(): popen() failed". Drmies (talk) 17:52, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

Paging This, that and the other. Alakzi (talk) 17:55, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
That a new bug in the MediaWiki-API, see phab:T97145. --Sitic (talk) 18:44, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

## Move option has gone missing (All pages)

Hi there, I recently tried to move the page Project 15B to a new name Vishakapatanam-class destroyer, only to find out that my move option has gone missing! I don't have the slightest clue what might have happened! Later a kind user from RCchat helped me by moving the page himself and suggested that my .js might have caused the problem. But I'm not sure which .js is the culprit or what should I do even if I find one... This issue persists on all the pages I visit! Here is what it looks like. this link. Can someone throw some lighten here... Thanks in advance! --†ããrøn95® 12:16, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Is it on the "More" tab? Do you get a move form or error message at Special:MovePage/Project 15B? Do you get a Move tab or a move option on the More tab if you disable "Add Page and User dropdown menus to the toolbar" at Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-gadgets? PrimeHunter (talk) 12:32, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
Hi , thanks for your quick reply..! The more tab previously had 'auto ed' and 'Google Trans'.. but after disabling "Add Page and User dropdown menus to the toolbar", the move option magically came into the more tab!! But can't I enable "Add Page and User dropdown menus to the toolbar" with move option?? there are no errors, just the move option missing! Regards--†ããrøn95® 12:48, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
I enabled that gadget and found the move option under the Page menu. Maybe another gadget or script you have installed is removing it. Try disabling other gadgets until it comes back. Reach Out to the Truth 13:11, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
It's also on the "Page" menu for me when "Add Page and User dropdown menus to the toolbar" is enabled, also in my autoconfirmed non-admin account. I don't know why it's missing for you. What is your browser? Do you have it in MonoBook? I have it in both MonoBook and the default Vector (other details vary, they don't use the same script). Do you get a normal move form and not an error message at Special:MovePage/Project 15B? PrimeHunter (talk) 13:31, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
Hi , check this link to find out what I see in Pages option. I've also tried disabling all the gadgets from preferences.. Yet, no use! It still won't appear in Pages dropdown...! Thanks for your reply! Hello , I am using Chrome. No, I use Vector! I tried MonoBook, it's still not there. Yes, I do get a normal move form in Special:MovePage/Project 15B and not an error message. The only problem is, I don't have a move option in pages.. Regards --†ããrøn95® 13:41, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
It works for me in Chrome. Try to clear your entire cache. I see you got the rollbacker right yesterday. Do you think Move disappeared after that? If it's possible then may I temporarily remove rollbacker from you? It shouldn't make a difference but rollbacker and move are both rights and the page script MediaWiki:Gadget-dropdown-menus-vector.js tests for the move right so it's conceivable that another right messes something up somewhere. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:05, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Hi , I too suspect that the rollback right might have caused the problem.If the 'temporary revoking' won't do any harm to my future benefits , you may do so... Regards --†ããrøn95® 15:10, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

OK, I have removed rollbacker.[68] PrimeHunter (talk) 15:18, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
Bwallah!! Move Page is Back in pages drop down!!! --†ããrøn95® 15:33, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
Great! Pinging MusikAnimal who maintains the script. I have given you rollbacker back. Please say whether the move link on the page tab has disappeared again. You can still move a page by for example entering Special:MovePage/pagename in the search box, or disable the gadget during the move. But let's hope MusikAnimal can make it work. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:52, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
Gone again (Move page again missing) !! . But thanks for all of your help! --†ããrøn95® 16:00, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
I'm unable to reproduce this. I used MusikPuppet which is has only rollback, then went to Project 15B (w/o redirect) and I see the Move link. The script works by checking permissions. The "move" permission should be present for any registered user, regardless of any additional rights. However there is some caching of the user rights, so we don't have to make extra AJAX calls (user permissions don't change often). Maybe that's the issue... @Jaaron95: What browser are you using? I'm going to have you check your rights by making the API call through your browser's JavaScript console. 16:10, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
Hi , I am using chrome... let's make the call... --†ããrøn95® 16:14, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
@Jaaron95: If you are using Windows hit Control+⇧ Shift+J (⌘ Command+⌥ Option+J on Mac), then type the following and hit Enter: mw.user.getRights().then(function(data){prompt("",data)}) then copy the selected text to your clipboard (Control+C) and paste it here. 16:22, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
rollback,createaccount,read,edit,createtalk,writeapi,editmyusercss,editmyuserjs,viewmywatchlist,editmywatchlist,viewmyprivateinfo,editmyprivateinfo,editmyoptions,centralauth-merge,abusefilter-view,abusefilter-log,abusefilter-log-detail,vipsscaler-test,ep-bereviewer,flow-hide,collectionsaveasuserpage,reupload-own,move-rootuserpages,move-categorypages,createpage,minoredit,purge,sendemail,ep-enroll,flow-lock,mwoauthmanagemygrants,patrol,reupload,upload,move,collectionsaveascommunitypage,autoconfirmed,editsemiprotected,movestable,autoreview,transcode-reset,skipcaptcha,flow-edit-post,mwoauthproposeconsumer,mwoauthupdateownconsumer
This one.. Right?--†95® 16:30, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Yeap that's what I was looking for. You have the same exact permissions as my test account MusikPuppet, so I don't think that's the culprit. Let's try clearing the MoreMenu cache, if for some reason it got stuck at a time where you somehow did not have the move permissions, which again, should always be there for registered users. Back in the JavaScript console, type this and hit Enter: $.jStorage.deleteKey('mmCacheDate');$.jStorage.deleteKey('mmUserRights') Refresh the page and let me know if you see the Move link. 16:37, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

Jaaron95 is autoconfirmed so this shouldn't be an issue but just for the record, only autoconfirmed (and confirmed) users have the move right, as shown by Special:ListGroupRights. I have an alternate account which is not autoconfirmed. As expected, the account has no move link anywhere whether the gadget is enabled or not, and Special:MovePage/Project 15B displays "Permission error You do not have permission to move this page". PrimeHunter (talk) 16:42, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
Ah yes, it is restricted to (auto)confirmed users. The script doesn't care about most user groups though, instead favouring checking permissions because they are consistent across wikis. The cache only last for a week, so unless Jaaron95 wasn't confirmed a week ago the move permission should be there. 16:51, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
hurrah!! You got that right geek!! Move option is back and is spic and span! Thank you for your time! MusikAnimal and you too PrimeHunter!! --†95® 16:55, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
Glad to hear it! Though I'm still baffled how this happened. Welp, if anything, thank you for finding the bug! :) I will investigate further. 17:02, 16 April 2015 (UTC)

## archive

hi, I think the talk page for wikiproject medicine Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine is not archiving , what should I do? (its suppose to archive articles past 14 days)--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 01:29, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

It's working fine; it's archiving sections that have had no comments whatsoever for 14 days, not those that are 14 days old. Graham87 07:18, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
thank you--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 10:35, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
To expand upon what Graham87 wrote, at the top of the page you will find a pseudo-template {{User:MiszaBot/config}}, containing the |algo=old(14d) parameter. This controls the minimum period (in days) that can elapse between the last posting to a thread and its archival. If you follow that link, you will find more information about the various parameters. If you want the time period extended, this can be done easily - but I would advise obtaining consensus at WT:WikiProject Medicine first. --Redrose64 (talk) 11:53, 25 April 2015 (UTC)
thank you--Ozzie10aaaa (talk) 12:02, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

## Coding Page

Can I have the link to the page where this template {{#invoke:AutomaticArchiveNavigator|tan}} was actually coded by that markup language?
My Archive navigation is showing an error so I need it.
aGastya  ✉ Dicere Aliquid :) 10:21, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

When you come across code like {{#invoke:}} this means that a Lua module is being used. Take whatever comes after the colon, up to (but not including) the next pipe or pair of closing braces (i.e. AutomaticArchiveNavigator), and prefix that with Module: - this gives Module:AutomaticArchiveNavigator. --Redrose64 (