Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 64

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Script issue

Would someone mind, please, figuring out how to get User:MarkS/extraeditbuttons.js working in other namespaces besides User and User talk? That's the only 2 places it will work currently. I would ask the script author but I see he hasn't edited since December. I've already left a request at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject User scripts but seeing as how the last request, made by a different user, there was July 20 and it still hasn't been answered, I figured I'd try elsehwere. -  allstarecho    23:01, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Anyone? -  allstarecho    06:22, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
OK, this is a rather difficult one, because the entire way the toolbar is being built has changed. I took a peek, and I could not find a quick way to add "my own" buttons to the toolbar. I have consulted the usability team, and they state that Trevor is working on a new API to change the toolbar at this moment, and that he will commit it later. As such I think putting any effort into this script at this moment in time is somewhat of a waste. I will await the API changes in the hopes that this will make it simpler for me. Please poke me if i forget. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 13:02, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. So I imagine these changes will also end up borking WP:WIKED? I was considering using wikEd as an alternative but I'll hold off on that as well then. -  allstarecho    18:08, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
WikEd is not buit on the old toolbar. However it is also not fully functional atm. for other enhanced toolbar reasons. This is being worked on separately and should be fixed real soon now. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 18:39, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
I don't guess you'd want to come up with some sort of script that gives me 2 buttons or links somewhere that when I click on them, they add predefined text at the cursor location? I'm using something similar now in my monobook.js but it just opens the page into editing mode and pastes the predefined text at the very top of the edit box. This...
//Creates link at top by login link. When clicked on at any page, it auto-opens the page for editing, pastes in the
//WikiProject Mississippi project banner tag and fills out the edit summary. All you have to do is adjust the tag
//parameters to your liking and click Save.
It works perfectly for that purpose but not for what I'm trying to do now. If I could get this, I could avoid the bloat of wikEd. -    allstarecho     21:07, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Strange file history

The file history of File:Jay Jennings-Writer-Director-Producer-Musician-Author.jpg appears to be messed up. Can someone explain what happened, or is it some kind of bug?Smallman12q (talk) 20:52, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

The file was deleted then only the latest version of it was restored. See the deletion log for the file. Graham87 07:17, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
It was deleted after the post by Smallman12q so maybe there was something strange but we cannot see that now. PrimeHunter (talk) 12:38, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
I deleted several redundant other versions of the file per the author's request that were uploaded on accident. hmwitht 18:46, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Table formatting question

Resolved: rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 02:39, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

In the following table, how can I remove the vertical borders between letters that are within the same big column (ie, under "Labial", the border between [m] and blank space, the one between [p] and [b], the one between [f] and blank space...etc.) without removing the rest of the lines from the table? (ie, I want to keep all the horizontal lines, and the vertical lines that separate out the labial/dental/palatal/velar columns, but not the middle vertical lines in between).

Labial Dental Post-
Velar Uvular Glottal
Nasal m n ŋ
Stop p b t d ʧ ʤ k ɡ q ʔ
Fricative f s z ʃ ʒ x ʁ h
Trill r
Approximant j w
Lateral l

Thanks, rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 21:47, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

(Here is also a version with a bit less formatting in it, if that would be easier to work with.) rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 22:01, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Labial Dental Post-
Velar Uvular Glottal
Nasal m n ŋ
Stop p b t d ʧ ʤ k ɡ q ʔ
Fricative f s z ʃ ʒ x ʁ h
Trill r
Approximant j w
Lateral l
Done between p and b
Labial Dental Post-
Velar Uvular Glottal
Stop p b t d ʧ ʤ k ɡ q ʔ

Thanks! rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 02:39, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

-- Codicorumus  « msg 22:57, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Slide bar for languages written right to left

hi, I recently visited Wikipedia in Urdu and i think it is very exciting. However, I don't know why slide bar has been moved from right to left. I know many websites in Urdu, they always have slidebar on right. I think using slidebar on left is bit unusual and difficult.


Muhammad Aamer [email removed] —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:37, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Firstly, this page is for discussing the English Wikipedia, not the Urdu Wikipedia. Secondly, the sidebar on the Urdu Wikipedia is on the right. Algebraist 15:19, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
The right-to-left languages (such as Arabic, Hebrew, and Urdu) generally have their sidebars on the right, while the left-to-right languages (English, German, French, etc) have their sidebars on the left. Not sure why the sidebar moves between the two types of languages, but just thought I'd point out the standard. EVula // talk // // 18:16, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
Almost certainly because that's where readers of those languages will naturally look first. It also makes formatting easier; right-to-left languages should have their sidebars right-justified the same way other languages are left-justified. Gavia immer (talk) 05:32, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Watchlist in preferences doesn't allow < 1 day

Before, the watchlist in the preferences could be set to anything. I set mine to an hour default so that it wouldn't waste time loading up hundreds of things I already saw before. However, since then I've changed something else in my prefs and it automatically changed the "days in watchlist" to an integer (1 or 3) and won't let me change back to the hour or any other non-integer. Can this be fixed? I don't want a giant lag each time I load my wathclist due to irrevelant repeats YellowMonkey (cricket photo poll!) paid editing=POV 05:13, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Bugzilla:19296 (probably not deployed yet). --Splarka (rant) 08:38, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Share this article gadget

The Share button of Sharebox when hovered.

I have made a new gadget, which I'm calling Sharebox. It uses the AddThis service to easily share an article by email or with a link on a bookmarking or link sharing website. It also cleans up the toolbox a bit with some nice icons.

Test it by adding the following to your monobook.js or vector.js

importScript( 'User:TheDJ/sharebox.js' );

Hope you like it. (P.S. cookie and flashcookie tracking are disabled, for the privacy aware editors) —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 13:22, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Move logs missing?

Yes check.svg Resolved. does not show this move

I have noticed the same on at least one other moved page.

Are the move logs temporarily or permanently out of action?

If so, could the status be linked from Special:Log please?

--Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 06:32, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

I don't think moves have ever been logged at the target page. A log entry can be found at Special:Log/Community Wind though. Amalthea 06:50, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Maybe it is my memory then - which is surprisingly vivid on this question. In fact, I don't recall the logs for the redirects showing the logs (until today) but I recall browsing logs of the target articles. --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 08:11, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
It shows up in the page history of the target page, but not the logs. Prodego talk 19:23, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation --Hroðulf (or Hrothulf) (Talk) 16:26, 13 August 2009 (UTC)


What can be done to put white space between the climate chart and the text in Parker,_Arizona#Climate? Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 20:39, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

This problem exists because the infobox template doesn't provide space around the box it draws. I was unable to find any other example of the use of this template. I think the resolution must be in the internal code of the template. --DThomsen8 (talk) 00:10, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
I was too hasty in that reply. Look at the chart now, floated right rather than left. It leaves a lot of white space below the text, but at least the text is not right up by the chart box. What do you think about that choice? --DThomsen8 (talk) 00:18, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
That looks good, thanks. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 05:42, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
As far as I can tell the infobox is designed to be floated only on the right. It has no margin on the left and a 1em margin on the right (in addition to 0.5 margins on top and bottom) The climate chart template you are using has a parameter to float it to the left but it fails to change the margins. I don't have time to play with it now but something like
{{ifeq: {{lc: {{{float}}}}}|left|style{{=}}"margin-left:0em;margin-right:1em;"|}}
may do the trick if placed in the right spot. If style is already used then you want to put this there and omit the style= and the " as well
{{ifeq: {{lc: {{{float}}}}}|left|margin-left:0em;margin-right:1em;|}}.
I might have forgotten or misplaced a few | in these. I rarely type code without bugs the first time. TStein (talk) 18:24, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

My skin keeps changing to Vector

I have Monobook set as my default skin, but every once in a while, a page shows up in Vector. I try refreshing the page, but that doesn't work. I have to go to another page to get Monobook back. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 06:04, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Does this happen when you're logged in or logged out? Also, next time this happens, could you tell us which page(s) show up in Vector? --Catrope (talk) 08:41, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Logged in. Yes, I can tell you, but it's just random and only happens once in a while. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 18:11, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Have you entered/left the Beta or otherwise selected Vector as your skin at any times in the past month ? That might be useful information as well I think. —TheDJ (talkcontribs)
I visited the Beta page, but never set it to my preferences. And I viewed Vector once when the discussion was up about making it the default, and decided it was ugly, and never set it to my preference. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 18:31, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Administrator topicon template

I've recently created {{administrator topicon}} in an effort to standardize with other {{top icon}} templates, and am now looking for input on a possible merge between that and {{administrator}}. I asked about this previously at Template talk:Administrator#Standardization with top icon template but got no replies. Posting this here, for now, feel free to move it if there's a more appropriate forum. – Luna Santin (talk) 06:41, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Is there a visual or other change? Why not just do it? –xenotalk 18:49, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
I'll probably get to it in a day or two, if nobody has by then. If a slightly more specific question might be more interesting, I'm wondering just how much of the old template's more esoteric behavior I should try to duplicate: the old image switch seems unusual and non-standard, the old size parameter seems odd given the presence of another (more powerful) one in {{top icon}}, and so on. – Luna Santin (talk) 19:12, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

CSS help

I've recently switched to the new Vector skin and love it. However, I like how the edit summaries in page histories, watchlists, recent changes, etc. are italicized in Monobook. Would someone who's experienced with CSS mind giving me some code that will italicize the edit summaries in Vector? Thanks, --[midnight comet] [talk] 17:24, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for the report. This had gone unnoticed so far. I will file a bugreport to get this fixed, and a en.wp temporary fix has been deployed. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 17:32, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
It's been fixed. Thank you, --[midnight comet] [talk] 19:55, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
This is bugzilla:20223 now. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 20:00, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Account creators have tboverride?

{{resolved}} How come account creators have the tboverride right? Not that I have a problem with splitting out some rights to established users, and the list of accountcreates is fairly short anyhow, but why do they have it in the first place?
I was quite surprised just now when I saw a non-admin edit an edit notice.
Amalthea 19:23, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Are you sure that is account creator and not autoreviewer? I can see how editing protected pages is related to autoreviewer, but not to account creator - Kingpin13 (talk) 19:33, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
You're right, it is. I'm not sure it should be. Thoughts? - Kingpin13 (talk) 19:35, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
They also have a rate unlimiter. I think someone once told me this was a "WONTFIXIT" issue. –xenotalk 20:57, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
The title blacklist is also used to blacklist usernames. Mr.Z-man 20:59, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Ah yes. Thanks for jogging my memory. The functions that allow them to do their work (override blacklisted usernames and create more than 6 per day) are these two additional rights. –xenotalk 21:01, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Duh! Thanks, Amalthea 21:07, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Strange image search result

Big boobs lesbians naked kenya birth certificate

I noticed that our picture of Rush Limbaugh was terrible, so I was searching to see if we had something better. (I seem to remember there used to be something better there.) So I searched the File: space for "Limbaugh" and the last search result was File:JabbatheHuttPlayset.jpg. I checked the history to see if the description page had previously been vandalized (to exclude the possibility that old text had been cached by the search engine) and it had been not. While I'm sure that some people here think it is funny to poke fun at overweight people, I don't find it amusing at all. So my question is this: I can find no legitimate technical reason why an image of Jabba the Hutt would show up in a search for "Limbaugh". Is this someone's hateful idea of a political statement or is there a technical reason reason for it? --B (talk) 18:03, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

That is odd. I thought for a minute it was because that file was, until a few minutes ago, linked at Talk:Rush Limbaugh/Archive 7, but removing it didn't work. Is it possible that this was the reason, but there's still some kind of cache that needs to be refreshed first? --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:33, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
That was the cause yes. It will take quite a while before the searchcache catches up with the change. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 18:38, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
I made a dummy edit to the image page, which should at least force it onto the update queue. Still, it may take a while before this is reflected in searchresults. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 18:46, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
I did the same thing a few minutes before you. But I'm still a little skeptical; if this is the reason, why didn't the other image I removed from that same page, Image:jabbatheHuttROTJ.jpg, also show up in the original search results? --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:48, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Answering my own question: Maybe because the word "Limbaugh" was used in the caption of the one that shows up in the search results? i.e. the search function might be looking for words in the captions, not for page names that link an image. Maybe. --Floquenbeam (talk) 18:52, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Correct assessment. I verified it with our sysadmin search specialist :D —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 19:23, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
The explanation makes sense, but this really ought to be fixed. Allowing image captions on unmonitored spaces to be used to Google bomb our search results is not a good idea - it's a problem on a number of levels. --B (talk) 19:26, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
On the other hand, it's also a great feature at times. And these results are by definition always last in our searchresults, so few people will see them. P.S. : Don't be pointy diff. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 19:44, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Gmaxwell is suggesting that perhaps this data should only be used if the linked image is used in articlespace. That would make it harder to abuse, while remaining useful. Feature requests can be filed here. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 19:58, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Bingo. That's what I meant. "Unmonitored" spaces is the problem, not the feature in general. Userspace and talk pages are largely unmonitored and allowing stuff like this to find it's way into search results is not a great idea. It's also possible that an innocent or sarcastic image caption could have an unintended effect. --B (talk) 20:01, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
But at the same time, it's the sort of thing that should get the editor in question a proper dressing-down (in this case, likening Limbaugh to Jabba the Hutt is a definite BLP violation). EVula // talk // // 05:06, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Bot in Visual

I'm looking to write a basic bot that utilizes the mediawiki api in visual basic .net. Are there any examples out there, I can only seem to find (talk) 19:23, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

WP:HUGGLE. Amalthea 21:53, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Database error

I'm sure this is nothing earth-shattering, but it's the first time I've had it happen. I tried to protect LeBron James and got A database query syntax error has occurred. This may indicate a bug in the software. The last attempted database query was:

   (SQL query hidden)

from within function "Title::purgeExpiredRestrictions". MySQL returned error "1205: Lock wait timeout exceeded; Try restarting transaction (". Enigmamsg 04:03, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Someone just did a bigdelete over at football, so that's probably what's giving the servers seizures at the moment. They should recover soonish. Hersfold (t/a/c) 04:08, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Ghost edits ala Winston Smith 1984

I have made several edits in the past of articles on wiki. Only to return some time later to find that all trace of the edits has been removed. Even from the history page. The posts did not contain swearing. I seem to recall that when wiki first started someone came to the chatroom I was in and asked people to contribute. Which I have done from time to time. Is it fair to say that either Wiki is censoring the content in a big brother way of controlling what people see or read on a subject. Or is it that there is a backdoor which allows agencies to edit at will the contents of wiki leaving no footprint or trace. I was not posting copyright protected material or linking to copyright protected material. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 10:55, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

  • That's happened to me from time to time, but it always was a glitch with rollbacking, my hitting page preview instead of submit and my inability to find my IP in the edit history. (talk) 11:24, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I was clicking on the submit button when I made the additions. I have seen it happen on other forums arround the internet. There is selective altering of the past taking place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 19:40, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

We are doing no such modification. Wikipedia has always been at war with Google. The stroopwafel ration has been increased from 30g to 40g. — Werdna • talk 08:39, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Admin tabs + twinkle

Sorry if this has already been asked somewhere, but is there a way to turn on admin tabs and/or twinkle functionality in the Beta? --B (talk) 20:05, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Special:Preferences → Gadgets → Library and compatibility gadgets: Compatibility function to run scripts only tested on Monobook on the new Vector skin. Required for using Twinkle or Friendly (along with many other scripts) with the Vector skin.xenotalk 20:12, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Twinkle works (It's in the actions hover menu, to the right of "view history"). Other tab tools will have to be judged on a case by case. Also see Wikipedia:Vector#My_Gadgets_and_Javascript_tools_are_broken. P.S. Twinkle does NOT require the compatibility gadget. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 20:20, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, just do what TheDJ suggests above. See User:Rjd0060/vector.js for my example. It works fine. - Rjd0060 (talk) 14:25, 14 August 2009 (UTC)


The template appears to be malfuntioning. In the Jan Pol, Dalen article, the conversions in the infobox are not appearing, yet the same format conversion under description is OK. Mjroots (talk) 08:18, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Looks like a temporary problem with {{convert}} itself (have a look at the current breakage on Kris Boyd). Should be resolved soon I would imagine, considering how visible it is. Chris Cunningham (not at work) - talk 11:47, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
It is OK now. Ruslik_Zero 15:13, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Citation tool reactivated

Cite4Wiki.xpi is an open source Firefox add-on that automatically generates citation wikicode for any web page. A download is available at To run, the user right-clicks in Firefox and selects the "Cite for Wiki" menu item.

Beta testers are needed. Jehochman Talk 14:28, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

It sounds wonderful. I'll certainly be using/testing it. Thanks for the add-on. hmwitht 15:28, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Make infoboxes appear side by side instead of on top of each other?

I created collapsible soundtrack boxes for this page, but now the soundtrack infoboxes look strange. Can I have them side by side at the top of the soundtrack section instead of stretching all the way down past the references? Jabberwockgee (talk) 22:57, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

If you didn't have two images (which you shouldn't, per WP:NFCC#8), you wouldn't have an issue. --Izno (talk) 00:22, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
  1. You don't have to be snarky.
  2. You didn't answer the question.
  3. I don't know what your link has to do with it (am I only supposed to have one? none?), but I have looked on other pages and seen that they do not have an image of the soundtrack, so I guess I'll delete them. Jabberwockgee (talk) 00:52, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Whoa, chill dude.
  1. Not snarkiness, but simply short.
  2. No, I didn't, but the answer is that you can. It's generally considered bad practice, however, to have double infoboxes with imagery in them (the few places where you find double infoboxes with images are compromise positions, usually). If you need further help, you can be helped. I'm also pretty sure you can make the infoboxes themselves collapsible, though I'm not sure how; double check the documentation on the infobox page.
  3. What I linked says that the images have to be more than there just to spruce up the page. They need to convey some amount of information which can't be gleaned through text. As the images in question were of soundtrack covers and not of high encyclopedic value, they should be discarded. You can keep the infoboxes without the images... --Izno (talk) 03:17, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Actually, I incorporated the information from the infoboxes into the article, so they are no longer necessary. Jabberwockgee (talk) 00:59, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Image issues aside, like this:


Kww(talk) 03:33, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

That's going to be unreadable for anyone with a small screen. --Carnildo (talk) 23:00, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Didn't say it was a good idea. I've played with it, and haven't ever been happy with the results.—Kww(talk) 23:17, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

Making PUI/PUF more like prod

Material struck because the analogy wasn't helpful. Protonk (talk) 19:47, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Possibly unfree files is a form of file deletion discussion that is roughly analogous to proposed deletions or PRODs. An image which may be non-free but is marked/uploaded as free is added to the discussion page and if no one objects, changes the tag or clarifies within 14 days, the image is lamost always deleted. It has been made distinct from Files for deletion (formerly images for deletion) in order to focus FFD more on discussion and PUI more on investigation--deletions at FFD are meant to be contentious, deletions at PUF, if they are needed, are relatively uncontroversial.

Unlike PROD, PUF is populated by an undated template. The 'dates' when articles may be deleted are determined by the discussion days, not the date that the template was added. This means that an editor processing the PUF queue has to open the specific day, then open each file in order to edit the rationale, provide information, or delete the file. If I have an objection I have to raise it on the discussion page and then edit the file page (assuming my objection allows me to remove the PUF tag). Compare this to prod where an editor or admin can scan the dated prod categories and make decisions about each article immediately.

My proposal is to leave the discussion system as is, but change the {{Pui}} template to add the file to a category much like Category:Proposed deletion has populated subcategories based on the date that the template is substituted. This will allow editors and admins to cruise the dated PUIs much more efficiently.

This requires both a technical and a process change, so I have posted a notification to this discussion at the template talk for pui and at WT:PUF. Thanks in advance for any comments. Protonk (talk) 19:01, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

PUF is not like PROD - an objection does not entitle you to remove the tag. An image is either demonstrably free or it isn't. The tag should only be removed and the discussion closed when either (a) the image is irrefutably determined to be free (eg, you found it on flickr, you found the date it was created and it is in the PD, you contacted the copyright holder, they licensed it to us under an acceptable license, and you forwarded that statement of license to, etc), (b) the image is obviously not free, but obviously qualifies for fair use and you have appropriately tagged it and written a rationale, or (c) you are hitting the delete button. But the unfree tag should remain on the image the whole time - it's a warning to potential downstream users of Wikipedia content to use this at your own risk because we're not sure it's free. I don't disagree with dated categories, though, because that would allow "incomplete" nominations or nominations that were missed when processing the page to be located more easily ... but PUF is not the equivalent of PROD. --B (talk) 19:38, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
Personally, I think that it should be merged into WP:FFD. PUF definetely should not work like PROD because it has a drastically different goal. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 19:45, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
I think the justification for PUI being distinct from FFD (along with the other pseudo-speedy image deletion cats) is that FFD should be like AFD where discussion occurs, but the bulk of image deletions are uncontroversial (either because no one cares or because they are obviously not allowed). Protonk (talk) 19:49, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
If anything, FFD should be split up into orphaned files for deletion and in-use files for deletion (and no fair removing it from a page yourself, then nominating it as an orphan). The reason is that the orphaned, unencyclopedic stuff is basically a "list of files to delete", while in-use images actually need to be examined to see that there is a good reason to delete the image (it fails our non-free content criteria, it's such a hideously bad photo that we're better off with nothing, etc). Some way of splitting out "list of things that an admin can queue up and delete" from discussions where we should try to have a consensus on what to do about them would be a good thing. PUF does a good job of splitting out the ones where the issue is copyright. Further dividing FFD into orphaned and in-use files would help, IMO. --B (talk) 20:31, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
(edit conflict) I should have quailified that comparison. Yes, it isn't like prod insofar as an image is either free or it isn't. However, it is very much like prod insofar as the most likely outcome is that an image sits at PUI for 14 days and then is deleted without further comment because it was either demonstrably non-free (but no one cared but the nominator) or it was borderline (And no one disputed the claim). I'm not seeking to make it like prod terms of who may start or end the discussion, I just offered the comparison in order to help justify turning the template into one that will populate dated categories so that I can delete/fix lots of images without developing carpal tunnel. I can process images at CSD pretty quickly but the doing the same number of images at PUI takes much more time (and that's even if I avoid commenting/closing the individual PUI discussions). Hence the constant backlog. Protonk (talk) 19:46, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
So you are suggesting that the PUF template add pages to dated maintenance cats, in addition to having a discussion at WP:PUF? That would make a lot of sense. Then an admin can look through the list of discussions for a day, batch-delete all the obvious ones with Twinkle, and then close the others manually. It would only require a template change and a new bot function to auto-create the categories. I'd support that for FFD, too. I think I'm going to be bold and try tweaking the template... the categories can be redlinked, anyway. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 19:50, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
That's precisely what I'm suggesting. :) Protonk (talk) 19:59, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
Sounds like a most excellent idea. I've modified the template to support this, now we just need to wait for the job queue to get to it. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 20:03, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

August 2009 is an invalid date parameter?

I've been dealing with Category:Articles with invalid date parameter in template, and I keep coming across these weird occurrences of images appearing in the category, but being tagged with "date=August 2009" (which is correct); this has only happened with August as far as I know. Here's a recent one that is appearing in the red-linked Category:User-created public domain images from August 2009. Does that category need to be made for it stop appearing in the invalid date parameters category? Lәo(βǃʘʘɱ) 22:29, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

I made the category, but they are still appearing the parameters category. Lәo(βǃʘʘɱ) 22:32, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, the category needs to be made. See Template:Dated maintenance category#Example which is used through transclusion. The pages may have to be purged or null edited to register quickly that the category now exists. Otherwise it should eventually happen automatically. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:05, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for confirming my suspicions. :) Lәo(βǃʘʘɱ) 02:45, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Badly scaled text in an SVG

File:Indole-3-butyric acid structure.svg looks OK, but in the gallery in the Auxin article (scroll down a little to see it), the letters are gigantically larger than they oughta be. Tempshill (talk) 21:16, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

There's a proposal to fund further development of the svg library (here) or alternatively investigate the Batik renderer. The few times I've uploaded SVG files I've had to convert them to paths to be sure text will be rendered OK (even though I only use DejaVu fonts that the svg library supports). My workflow is design in inkscape -> save as ps file converting text to paths -> open ps file in Adobe Illustrator -> save as svg with all the smart options turned off. This forces lowest-common-denominator compatibility, but bloats files sizes and makes them pretty useless for subsequent editing. - Pointillist (talk) 21:34, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
The file uses helvetica which breaks the thumb core for some weird reason. See also Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Chemistry/Structure drawing workgroup/Mysid's scriptTheDJ (talkcontribs) 21:45, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
I force the thumb to be redrawn, and now it renders properly. It is known that there were issues with the fontconfiguration a while back. This image was probably drawn back then. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 22:11, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
There are similar problems with some of the svg files I've created using gnuplot. See logarithmic distribution and log-logistic distribution. They didn't use to look like that! The gnuplot source code is in included in the image descriptions, e.g. at File:Logarithmicpmf.svg. I don't have Inkscape or Adobe Illustrator. Any suggestions would be much appreciated. Regards, Qwfp (talk) 16:23, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Strikethrough edits?

So.. this is weird. I randomly went to and just saw that there are a handful of revisions that have strikethroughs through them. Are those oversighted revisions? In my three years here, I've never seen that before... what are they? — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 04:18, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Nevermind, I just found my answer on Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)/Archive 44#Use the term "edit summary" rather than "comment" in oversighting. In case anyone else is curious, they are oversighted. Interesting.. — HelloAnnyong (say whaaat?!) 04:22, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
Technically, they were suppressed; if they were truly oversighted, you wouldn't see them at all. ;) EVula // talk // // 16:50, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Server load from blank transclusion

I know we are told to not worry about server load but I wanted to know how much load, if any, is taken up by a template which is transcluded but has no text or code whatever, such as {{^}}. Is it true that the more code and text a template calls, the larger the load it places on the servers? And if so, does a template that calls no code and text at all because the template is entirely blank place any strain on the servers (or possibly a negligible amount in comparison to a template with some material or lots of material)?--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 12:38, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

What just happened?

Why is the text smaller all of a sudden? --Dylan620 (contribs, logs)help us! 16:45, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Did you perhaps bump the font size down in your browser? It looks fine to me. EVula // talk // // 16:48, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
OK, I'll try reloading my browser. --Dylan620 (contribs, logs)help us! 16:50, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
There should be a key command for it. What browser/OS do you use? EVula // talk // // 16:53, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Most commonly you could use Ctrl+Scroll wheel however you could find the zoom setting on your browser. Triplestop x3 16:57, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Triplestop, that's what went wrong. Cheers, Dylan620 (contribs, logs)help us! 17:00, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
Depends on the computer. I have a Mac, and control-scroll (if activated in the System Preferences) will zoom in the entire screen (useful for those with poor eyesight, but it's handy at other times as well). EVula // talk // // 20:44, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
Ctrl-0 (control-zero) is the zoom cure-all on Firefox. haz (talk) 22:03, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Vector eating my contribs?

Could it be that the new skin (Vector) is pretty bad when it comes to preserving things written in the edit box? It's happened to me a couple of times now that I wrote a comment somewhere, clicked "show preview", got a WMF error message, clicked "back" on my browser and.. my comment was gone. Of course, this always happened when I was writing 1k of text, so this is starting to seriously annoy me. :) It seems that the skin reloads the discussion page when I click "back", which of course means that it deletes everything that I've written in the meantime. That's.. not a good idea. --Conti| 20:26, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

The skin cannot, the new toolbar and edit window can perhaps. Basically, you take so long to write it, that you didn't submit in time. You get an error, go back, and because of the new way it works, your form did not preserve the content. The Usability team is aware of this issue I think. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 23:14, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
bugzilla:20277TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:20, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
Ah, thanks! Good to know it's already being taken care of. --Conti| 11:41, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

This character has recently turned up in the insert box. I suppose we can expect a whole bunch of "√2"s where we should really be aiming at ""s. JIMp talk·cont 23:41, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

I believe you are talking about MediaWiki:Edittools. You can discuss on the talk page. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 23:52, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
Removed. Prodego talk 00:52, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Edit summary box with new Vector skin

Is there any way to make the edit summary box the same width as the edit window when using the new vector skin (as it is with monobook)? I like the new skin but this is just a minor annoyance if you use a long edit summary (as you have to use show preview to be able to see all of what you have typed without having to scroll with the cursor). Hope this is the right place for this. ascidian | talk-to-me 10:45, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Fixed locally. filed with the developers as bugzilla:20276TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:00, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick reply, although it's still the same for me. I assume I'll have to wait for this change to appear? ascidian | talk-to-me 11:21, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
It's showing up now, thanks! ascidian | talk-to-me 11:42, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Email function

Hi. I believe I have my email preferences set correctly to see another editor's email address, if his or prefrences are set to do so (in the upper left corner?). Could you check my preferences, and if this is set up correctly maybe, fix the problem so I can see the email addresses. Thanks in advance. Ti-30X (talk) 19:00, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

What makes you believe that you can see them? I don't think that's possible. If you have your own email address enabled, you wil see an "email this user" link in the sidebar when you go to the user or talk page of an editor who also has email enabled. If you click it, you can write your email in a web form. Depending on your settings the sender address will be either Wikipedia (in the name of your account) or the email address you have configured (so the recipient will know it). If things worked differently they could probably be abused by spammers for harvesting good email addresses. Hans Adler 19:17, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
"What makes you believe that you can see them?" I thought that another editor had told me this in his talk page. I will check to see the "email this user link". Thanks for your timeTi-30X (talk)
OK I just found it. I surely must have misunderstood the other editor.Ti-30X (talk) 21:33, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

somethings screwy at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Freedom of Power Treaty

When viewing the afd in the afd log, there are several comments after the nomination. When editing the afd or viewing it's page as opposed to the log, none of the additional content is there. Also, when looking at the log the bottom of this entry and half of the one below it are in small text. Anyone know how to fix this? --Beeblebrox (talk) 19:01, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Never mind, it looks like there are two AfDs "stacked" on top of one another without a proper section break, making it look like just one, and they are on very similar topics so I didn't notice at first. More of a formatting error than an actual tech issue. Beeblebrox (talk) 19:06, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
SpaceFlight fixed it. [1] Hans Adler 19:12, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Sortable referenced tables

I've found a problem, and wonder if there's a workaround aside from misplacing the references. Compare the chart table in the Shania Twain article with a properly referenced table and an old one with the references in the wrong place. On the unreferenced version, the sortable table sorts numerically if you sort the position column (i.e. 1, 2, 15). On the referenced version, it sorts alphabetically (1, 15, 2). I've tried putting a space between the figure and the reference, but there's no joy to be found there.—Kww(talk) 01:45, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Add a {{sort|01}} before the number 1, {{sort|02}} before the number 2, ... Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 02:07, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Automatic currency converter buttons

Currencies fluctuate. I'm an American. Sometimes I work on articles about New Zealand GDP. Should I put the information in New Zealand dollars or US dollars? Many readers will be New Zealanders who think NZ$; others think US$. So I'm wondering...Tomwsulcer (talk) 15:07, 15 August 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer

See Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)#Currencies. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:26, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks PrimeHunter for the pointer to the style guide. But what you're saying is there isn't yet a Wikipedia tool to do automatic currency conversions for readers? If this doesn't yet exist, I think it would be a really cool tool to have, make Wikipedia articles much more up-to-date and effective, and shouldn't be too hard to do technically.Tomwsulcer (talk) 17:24, 15 August 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer

Wouldn't it be really cool for readers to be able to click on a money amount and convert the currency? Click, it's New Zealand dollars. Click, US dollars. Click, some other currency. It shouldn't be that hard to do technically. Wikipedia has a page of exchange rates. Wondering... (btw if this feature already exists, then I never suggested this, but please tell me how to do it.) Tomwsulcer (talk) 15:07, 15 August 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer

If you go through the archives, I am sure this has been discussed. I think someone was working on a template. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 23:56, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks Gadget850 I'll look through the archives for templates about currency conversions (never done this before) I hope it doesn't take a long time to hunt through them.Tomwsulcer (talk) 00:31, 16 August 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Update -- I looked through the archives and didnt' find any currency converter templates or discussion of any. There was mention of an inflation-adjustment template. I still think the idea of a currency converter template is solid and would be a great help to readers as well as editors. Tomwsulcer (talk) 01:12, 16 August 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
Update User:Ohconfucius found a great template which converts from foreign currencies to US dollars. It follows (using NZ dollars but other currencies can work too): Tomwsulcer (talk) 13:17, 17 August 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer
The exchange rate between the New Zealand and United States dollars is User:7/Template:fx.
So far, it looks to me like the currency converter works. But editors on the New Zealand talk page such as User:Gadfium suggest the template can't be based on a user page, but has to be on a more official page, and approved by the community. What steps are needed to make this tool official? I think stuff like this is what makes Wikipedia really great and useful. And also I think not all the bugs are worked out, since the template doesn't seem to work properly if the second closing bracket is followed by a blank space (it inserts a carriage return if this happens). Tomwsulcer (talk) 13:17, 17 August 2009 (UTC)tomwsulcer

New magic words?

How hard would it be to create magic words that would allow you to place templates where their code is not? There is a discussion on VPPR about infoboxes scaring new editors away from the leads of articles. I am thinking that ideally we could place all template code at the bottom of the article and use magic words (like ToC) to position them wherever when transcluded. The words would be includeonly and triggered by certain text in the parameters. I really have no idea what I'm talking about, so is this idea total crap? ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 16:44, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

You could just create a separate page to put the infobox on and then transclude it from there. Triplestop x3 16:58, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
Please don't split the conversation, Triplestop; that suggestion is covered quite well there.… --Izno (talk) 17:11, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
Er, Triplestop isn't splitting the conversation, he's talking about putting the infoboxes on separate pages. EVula // talk // // 20:47, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
Which is being discussed at length at the above link. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 21:07, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
^ --Izno (talk) 03:32, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
Above conversation aside, how hard would it be to make such magic words? Given the nature of templates, doesn't it make sense to treat them more like part of the software? ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 17:07, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Source of transclusion

I am trying to figure out which template is transcluding {{5}}. It is appearing on rail related pages, but it's not clear which template is responsible. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 23:03, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

can you give us a link to a page where this happens? There are an awful lot of "rail related pages". --stmrlbs|talk 00:09, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Right, that's the problem. If you search for templates which link to {{5}}, then you get a long list. I'm trying to figure out which one is the actual source (i.e., the original transclusion). Thanks. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 00:13, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
For example, why does {{Grenfell}} depend on {{5}}, that should be easy enough to track down? Perhaps I'm missing something. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 00:20, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Nevermind, I found it, it was a bug in the {{BS-header}}, and yes that's its real name. Thanks. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 00:26, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

How much more similar does a name have to be one of those only Admins can create?

Supposedly similar usernames can only be created by Admins, but Dougweler (talk · contribs) seems to have escaped whatever software handles similar usenames. Should that be possible? Dougweller (talk) 15:36, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

It looks like he is an established user on the Galician Wikipedia. Presumably, single sign-on created his account here without it having to be vetted for similar names. --B (talk) 17:30, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
Hadn't thought of that. I'm not sure that should happen though. Dougweller (talk) 18:38, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
File a bugzilla maybe... Beansy, this. –xenotalk 17:10, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
I don't know that anything can be done (imo). He likely had it made before SSO was available, and we can't exactly deny him the name he's been using on the wiki he is on. Go with the flow. --Izno (talk) 18:02, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Conclusions - "How many bytes does an edit take up?" - conclusions

Previous discussion: Village Pump: Technical. Anarchangel Q:"?" Midom A: ~20K
The average number of edits per page can always be found in Special:Statistics, where it says "Average edits per page". Graham87 09:21, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

How many bytes does an edit take up?

I would like to get an idea of the relative importance of deleting articles as compared to bot activity. I very much get the impression that if not the rules of WP so much, then most definitely editors' application of the rules, in places like AfD and Speedy, are driven at least in part by the desire to keep clutter out of WP to save space.
Yet, here is a bot history with five thousand edits in four days. That's not an increase in bytes in terms of the pages, but I am a little concerned about the room that the page history takes up. I am quite sure it is a very small amount each time, but five thousand? How many bytes does it take to store the page history? Even if it was one byte, that is max article size (100k per WP:SPLIT) in twenty days; 18.25 articles per year. Anarchangel (talk) 13:37, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Don't worry about performance. EVula // talk // // 13:38, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
If I am not mistaken, you are confusing RAM with hard drive storage. Anarchangel (talk) 13:44, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
If I am not mistaken, you are confusing "don't worry about performance" with "worry about performance." :P
All kidding aside, there's no point in fretting about how much hard drive space discussion takes up. Most AfDs are, as you say, to keep clutter out of Wikipedia. But this is for editorial reasons, not because of hard drive space; we delete the bad pages because they don't live up to our quality levels in some fashion (chief reason being that the subject isn't notable enough to warrant inclusion), not because we have a finite amount of space and we need to keep a few extra megabytes clear for better articles. Deleted pages still exist within the system, so deleting pages doesn't free up space at all. We don't need to limit bots because they make five thousand edits in four days, either. If those five thousand edits help to improve the encyclopedia, so be it; that's the whole point of the project. EVula // talk // // 14:06, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
The media files are a much larger drain on Hard drive space regardless. I think media takes about 100 times more of our HD space, then all the revisions. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 14:10, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
A simple null edit takes ~500 bytes in revision table, ~500 bytes in cu_changes, 250 bytes in page, 700 bytes in recentchanges, 100 bytes in 'text', may grow external storage blob by few bytes or do a compressed text copy (depends). Multiply that by amount of replicas (nearly 10 for enwiki), and you get 20k per edit. A bot which does 5000 edits per day consumes at least 10MB of diskspace a day. Of course, thats just null edits - anything involving changes in links tables or bigger text differences do cost more. If anyone wants to see our core database dataset distribution, a somewhat old snapshot is at - it doesn't show external-store use though. Cheers! Domas Mituzas (talk) 08:06, 8 August 2009 (UTC)
Thank you very much for your responses. Anarchangel (talk) 09:29, 8 August 2009 (UTC)

WP:SPLIT "There are no hard and fast rules for when an article should be split. A guideline for article size is... > 100 KB Almost certainly should be divided"

20Kb per edit. 100Kb max per article. Therefore, all articles with more than five revisions have more revision information in WP storage than article content.

Media: Markedly variable. Gifs, some less than one Kb. Other types, up to a few Mb.

Average revisions per page: Yeh, please, someone who knows, let us know.

Ten articles using the 'Random article' link, with revisions calculated at 20kb per:

Title Article Kb Media Kb Revisions Kb
Discourses on Livy 8 None 2,000
Lenin Enrolment .8 None 140
Animal (Pearl Jam song) 8.4 18 5,600
Silver Birch House 1.2 None 100
Discordant coastline 1.4 1,050 1,000
Rosalie Sorrels discography 29.6 None 1,060
William Turner (dab) 1.4 None 740
8595 Dougallii 1.4 128 80
Appen (Netherlands) 0.8 0.8 40
Little Gull Island Light 4.1 96 (2) 500
Totals 57.1 1,292.8 11,260
% of total 0.45 10.25 89.29


  • This data is considerably better than pure speculation, but more data is of course needed.
  • It appears that most storage is of revisions. Even media does not take up as much storage. Page size is of next to no concern to storage (Page size is quite rightly restricted for client side access issues).
  • When the issue of bots is added, revisions take on a whole new dimension, as noted in the "How many bytes" section above. The example bot made edits requiring the same amount of storage as all ten articles, in only four days. Every day, nearly twice the storage of the media in all ten articles.

And by the way, if you are wondering how much the chart uses, it is all html, but because of the number of lines, it might conceivably be possible to make (uneditable) .gif file charts that would actually take up less storage. The .gif flag in Appen (Netherlands) is only .8 Kb; this whole edit added 6.6 Kb to my user page. Anarchangel (talk) 04:25, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

But the main point of the SPLIT guideline is to aid readability, not reduce storage space. Users don't download the entire revision history when they view a page. Also, if you're looking for population data, look at the sizes of the different database dumps. And finally, don't worry about performance. OrangeDog (talk • edits) 00:25, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
The flag in that article is an SVG, not a GIF. Its only 800 bytes because its just 3 solid bars. A more complex flag might be a lot more (85 KB in that case). Note that for media storage, we store not only the full file, but also (typically) several different sized thumbnailed versions. Putting tables into GIFs rather than wikitext just to save a few KB of storage at the expense of editibility is a rather terrible idea and is the kind of thing WP:PERF exists to advise against. Mr.Z-man 03:12, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

"[Edit]" tags being misplaced

I'd like to call attention to an issue that I see occurring somewhat frequently. Quite often I see the "[Edit]" links being misplaced on a page due to the presence of images or info boxes. I've created a screen capture from the current Ares I page which illustrates the problem:

Edit tag problem.png

I think that this occurs when there is no horizontal rule on a heading and an image overlaps the area (which is currently true for 3rd level and lower headings, in monobook). This screenshot was taken while using Firefox 3.5.2, Windows XP. If there is already a solution for this, or something is in the works, then great. Otherwise, I wanted to bring it to the wider community's attention.
Ω (talk) 22:22, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

I think I remember hearing somewhere of a script that moved the tag over to the title of the subheader, so it was something like "Subheader [edit]", and even more vague is a discussion about the problem, where the script was proposed/discussed. I don't remember where I saw this, but I think I found it via {{cent}}. If that helps at all, I'd be surprised. :P Lәo(βǃʘʘɱ) 22:27, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
WP:BUNCH. Algebraist 22:29, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
Ah hah! WP:BUNCH is more or less what I was looking for. Thank you!
The other point of posting this was to simply call attention to the existence of the problem, however. Hopefully someone can think of an actual solution to the problem, rather then simply working around it.
Ω (talk) 23:00, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
I've fiddled around on the article to fix the misplaced edit tags - the enormous infobox doesn't help, and the logo should really go somewhere other than at the start of the article, but I think I've made it a bit better. DuncanHill (talk) 22:53, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
I saw that, and thank you for contributing. I was going to do something similar to what you did, but I wanted to post this here in order to capture the issue itself. I'm not particularly concerned about this individual article, since it's obviously an issue which is fixable with some attention. Individually, all the pages where this is a problem are fixable. The problem is, this is a common issue... if we could brainstorm a method to fix or even just reduce the incidence of bunching that should help Wikipedia overall.
Ω (talk) 23:00, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
This is one of the longest outstanding layout issues in Wikipedia, and no one has been able to find a satisfiable workaround so far. Basically, this is how it is supposed to look, unless we move the [edit] links right behind the header names. (which apparently has other issues on right-to-left wiki's). —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 23:10, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
After this proposal, there is now a gadget for moving the edit links. OrangeDog (talk • edits) 00:41, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Link to media files

To create a link to a media file, that plays the content of the file when clicked (like: media), one can enter:


This produces a link to url:

Now in some instances, it is desirable to have a clickable icon instead of a text string. I expected to achieve this (like: Loudspeaker.svg) by coding:


However, this produces a link to url, which is the description file of the media content.

This can be overcome by coding explicitly (like: Loudspeaker.svg)


This requires knowledge of some storage data that ought to be internal to the wiki software and is rather inconvenient for the editor.

So I wonder if there is a better way of doing this and if not, if a better way can be created in the wiki software.

Woodstone (talk) 09:39, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Known issue. bugzilla:16409TheDJ (talkcontribs) 10:41, 16 August 2009 (UTC)
I was gonna suggest a workaround with Special:Filepath, but I guess I already did. --Splarka (rant) 07:36, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the pointers. Using Special:Filepath gives results as desired (although I not understand how it works). Is this solution stable enough to embed in templates? The other suggestion at the bug report to use "Image" instead of "Media" has no effect. −Woodstone (talk) 08:33, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Try {{filepath:Open_front_unrounded_vowel.ogg|nowiki}}Dispenser 15:20, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Adding link={{filepath:Open_front_unrounded_vowel.ogg|nowiki}} creates a garbled link to:

Since using Special:Filepath works fine, the only question remaining is why the author calls it an imperfect solution. −Woodstone (talk) 20:46, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

That's what happens if I don't spend any time in the sandbox, the correct code is [[Image:Loudspeaker.svg|11px|link={{filepath:Open_front_unrounded_vowel.ogg}}]]. Now what I assume the problem is that linking to special pages doesn't provide any backlinks, so we can't see where files are being used. Admittedly this magic word doesn't produce backlinks either, but it should be easier to fix than the Special page link. — Dispenser 03:18, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Expanding all collapsed templates on an afd page

How do I expand all collapsed templates on an old afd page? Aside from clicking show on each one, is there a nifty tech solution? If not, I'd like to question the current usage of the collapsible templates at afd, since they aren't actually incredibly useful in relaying information. The usage at DRV should be the model. There they at least have the courtesy to show the decision and some sort of explanation. Hiding T 11:11, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

If you disable JavaScript in your browser, all collapse boxes will be forced open. See WT:Articles for deletion#Change to closed discussions making life harder. Flatscan (talk) 04:02, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Odd category transclusion

Can someone with a bit of technical know-how help me sort this one out? Just recently many of the Connie Smith album articles (such as File:Connie Smith Live.jpg, File:Connie Smith Now.jpg - 34 at current count) have been included in the Category:Non-free Wikipedia files with red backlink. The image pages themselves are marked in the Category:Non-free Wikipedia files with valid backlink and I can't seem to see anything wrong with the article titles in any of the file pages. Any thoughts on this odd happening? Thanks in advance for feedback! Skier Dude (talk) 03:36, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Simply put, it's a problem with the job queue, the thing that keeps category/template/page relations up to date. (Well, maybe not a problem, but it's slow nonetheless.) Give the servers a few hours/days to clean themselves up, and everything should be fine; it's just a temporary problem. Thanks! The Earwig (Talk | Contribs) 03:44, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Problem moving pages

(I am moving this question of mine from Wikipedia:Help desk)
Is there a problem with the "move page" function these days? It seems to work well for me for many articles, but for some of them, it does not seem to work. When I click "Move this page" for Xi’an International Trade & Logistics Park, which I would like to move to Xi'an International Trade & Logistics Park, I get the following message "No target. You have not specified a target page or user on which to perform this function." Can anyone help? Thank you! olivier (talk) 16:39, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

I think I've fixed this. You were using two different types of apostrophes, which possibly caused the problem. TNXMan 16:43, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
The problem appeared before I could request anything. The error message was displayed just after I clicked "move page". I was not even requested to give the title of the target. Same thing for King's Road (Hong Kong): error message without being even asked what the target is. But apparently, if I wanted to move this page Wikipedia:Village pump, I could do it without any problem. olivier (talk) 16:46, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
It only occurs in the skins Classic, Cologne blue and Nostalgia, and only when the name contains a special character. I reported it at bugzilla:20027 where a reply claimed a fix but the problem is still there. I have marked bugzilla:20172 as a duplicate. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:34, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
OK, thank you for the attention and for the explanation. I am using the Classic skin, and these articles had special characters in their title. Thanks again. olivier (talk) 09:26, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Link to current page

Is there a way to create an active link to the current page, but not to a specific section? Note that

Is there a way to get the latter format without linking to a section (i.e., clicking it would go to the top of the page)?

Bongomatic 17:35, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

You could add the #top anchor as a way around it. Actual self-linking to a page without an anchor is not possible, no. ^demon[omg plz] 17:37, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. I should have noticed that here. Bongomatic 17:43, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
FWIW, #top only exists in some skins. Depending on how you use it, that might be important.
An alternative is #toc, but that only works if you have a table of contents (and the user hasn't configured it away). Amalthea 19:28, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
You can also just use anything that's not the name of an actual section, for example: WP:Village pump (technical)#This is an example. hmwitht 19:43, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Lies. Doesn't work. I though that it did for some reason. hmwitht 14:55, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Need help fixing Revision history search (wikiblame.php)

We used to have a revision history search I (and others) found quote helpful linked in our Mediawiki:Histlegend [2].

Apparently the author is having some code troubles (security issues) before he can put it back online. See

Any help would be appreciated! –xenotalk 22:43, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Up and running again. --Flominator (talk) 07:50, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
Excellent! Thanks and keep up the good work. –xenotalk 12:31, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

What's going on with the edit conflict blocker?

It's the second time today that I edit a discussion page, write a longish comment, save it, and in the saved page there's a less recent comment before mine. How comes the error page I used to get in edit conflicts didn't show up? --___A. di M. 19:21, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

As has always (I think) been the case, you don't get the error page if the software can resolve the conflict by itself, as it sometimes can for separate new posts to a discussion. Algebraist 20:00, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
I am not sure, but is it the case that if you leave a free line after the previous comment, and someone else who doesn't is quicker, then the two edits are simply combined? I think it should count as one edit changing a paragraph and another starting a new paragraph following it, so theoretically they are independent. Of course in discussions that's often not true. Hans Adler 20:14, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
I seem to recall getting "edit conflict" errors when editing two completely different sections, but that was a long time ago, so the software has meanwhile been changed, I don't recall correctly, or both. --___A. di M. 20:35, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
I seem to recall sometimes getting into such situations after using the preview function, but I am not sure. Hans Adler 20:40, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
BTW, if what you say above about blank lines is true, that'd be another reason not to use blank lines within one discussion. (The one I already knew is the ridiculous HTML output that a line starting with ::: after a blank one produces.) --___A. di M. 01:10, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Image question

How do I put two images next to each other so that it looks like it's one image? The images are File:Laura Hickman 01.JPG and File:Tracy Hickman 02.jpg, if it matters. Thanks. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 19:56, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Laura and Tracy Hickman
{{Double image}} gives a small space between them in my browser. Is that OK? PrimeHunter (talk) 21:28, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
That looks great. Thanks. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 22:05, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Cite Book template wonky

I noticed that {{cite book}} is suddenly replacing author's names with lines (or double em-dashes) - any idea what's up? - PKM (talk) 02:56, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Issue solved. Template_talk:Cite_book#Author_mask_problemTheDJ (talkcontribs) 10:40, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

can't user search Revision history (Wiki-blame) - had no trouble using it recently

I tried to do a revision history search on the wikipedia article "Off-label use" and I got this message:

Forbidden You don't have permission to access /wikiblame.php on this server.

why would I have this happen now, when I was able to use it with no problem just a few days ago? --stmrlbs|talk 20:36, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

ok.. did a little more searching around, and it looks like wikiblame had to be closed because of SQL injections: [3]. Flo is asking for help, so if anyone can help with this, please do. This is a very commonly used tool. --stmrlbs|talk 20:45, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
I find it a vital tool at times. Dougweller (talk) 06:18, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
This is fixed now. –xenotalk 13:09, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Is there a place to report a particularly BEANSy bug

... without it being publicly visible for potential exploitation? I came across one that seemed innocuous at first, but upon further rumination, it could be used to cause all sorts of hard-to-detect mischief. I looked at BugZilla, but the bugs seem to be searchable by anyone, so that doesn't seem like a good place. Thoughts? ArakunemTalk 19:37, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

  • You could try to flag a dev on IRC... –xenotalk 19:38, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
  • security [at] exists for that purpose. Amalthea 19:42, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
  • I suggest contacting a sysop/crat/steward/founder by email (Special:EmailUser/User:Example) I suggest brion. ManishEarthTalkStalk 05:32, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
    Brion doesn't have his email enabled. –xenotalk 13:08, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
Tell him to email you (Give your address if you haven't enabled email), and then email him back

Question about unified login

The current process dealing with unified login assumes that the user operates under the same name and even the same password in each different wiki. What happens if the usernames and passwords are different in each wiki? How do you unify the accounts then? Dr.K. logos 01:35, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Are the accounts in the other wikis yours? If they are, simply change the passwords. If they are not, get your account renamed and then unify ManishEarthTalkStalk 05:51, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
Of course they are mine. I wouldn't ask the question if they were not. I don't think changing the password will work for accounts that don't have identical usernames. I suspect that the transwiki software looks only for the same name accounts. Dr.K. logos 06:39, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that's correct. Get the accounts renamed to the same name. — Werdna • talk 13:01, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Thanks Werdna. Dr.K. logos 16:26, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Problem with an infobox, specifically, a planetbox

Some other users and I have noticed, while editing the page for the planet WASP-17b, that planetboxes make it difficult to portray ambiguity and the source of information. If you look at the infobox on that page, you can see that the footnote for each piece of information ends up in between the number and the units, like this: Inclination: 87.8[1]°. Also, the planetbox encourages people to just put in numbers that are too precise, with too many significant figures. For example, for a distant planet, it might be better to guess that the radius is between 1.5 and 2.0 times that of Jupiter, but the planetbox only accepts one figure without looking messy. I suggest that planetboxes be altered to reflect ambiguity and to improve the ease with which information can be attributed to appropriate sources. Gary (talk) 21:51, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

I would further note that infoboxes in general do not handle ambiguity, imprecision and conflicts in reliable sources very well. It may be well to focus this discussion on planetboxes, but I would like to see some general principals come out of the discussion that could be applied elsewhere. -- Donald Albury 22:09, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
Then is there a way to show where each individual piece of information in an infobox came from, without ruining formatting? Gary (talk) 22:38, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

A {{{cite<xfield>}}} could probably be built into the template, where and when necessary. --Izno (talk) 23:44, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps I missed something, but wouldn't this discussion be better located at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Astronomical objects, which appears to be the designated talk page for the various planetbox templates? --Philosopher Let us reason together. 06:48, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
You're right, it would be better located there. But I did not know about that place. Thanks for letting me know, I will ask about it there. Gary (talk) 07:29, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Enclose a box

{{resolved}} this is a simply question which is difficult for me to figure out, how can I enclose this box:

Life Preserver.svg The Article Rescue Squadron Newsletter
Issue 1 (September 2009)

Notice how the box continues on to the right? Thanks in advance.


Is closed, so it is probably something within the second set of brackets...

Ikip (talk) 08:08, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

I figured it out:
Life Preserver.svg The Article Rescue Squadron Newsletter
Issue 1 (September 2009)
There shouldn't be a second width: 100%;
Ikip (talk) 08:13, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Template:Windmills in the United States

{{resolved}} Can anyone explain why {{Windmills in the United States}} is not displaying more than 20 fields. It should be displaying 22, or is 20 the maximum that can be handled? Mjroots (talk) 10:55, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

{{Windmills in the United States}} uses {{Navbox}}. Template:Navbox#Usage shows a limit of 20 groups. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:16, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll have to rework the template to just cover those with individual lists then. Mjroots (talk) 11:17, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
See also Template talk:Navbox. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:18, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

"What links here" broken

I just moved WAZS-FM to WWIK and checked to see what links needed to be fixed. There was only one--WAZS (FM)-- but I knew of some others and fixed them. I have a feeling that's not all.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 15:44, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

When I check it also gives:

   * WWBZ (defunct)
   * 98.9 FM

*shrug* –xenotalk 15:48, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, mine didn't have either of those.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 16:14, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

You don't have to, and shouldn't (see WP:R2D), fix any incoming links, unless you also need to change the actual visible text (such as lists of current radio stations - presumably this one changed its call letters; the article is unclear). --NE2 07:57, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
I've always assumed I should change the piped links. After all, another station can now use the WAZS-FM letters.
And I'm sorry the article was unclear. We're only allowed to use certain types of sources, and I was waiting for one I could use. One I found had an outdated link so I couldn't use that.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 17:42, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

File not displaying

File:A Boechout, Den Steenen Molen, stellingmolen 02aW.JPG is hosted on Commons. It is showing as a redlink in the List of windmills in Antwerp article. Any idea why this is? Mjroots (talk) 11:20, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

One of the spaces in the file name is not a normal space. [[:File:A Boechout, Den%C2%A0Steenen Molen, stellingmolen 02aW.JPG]] gives the blue link File:A Boechout, Den Steenen Molen, stellingmolen 02aW.JPG. [[:File:A Boechout, Den Steenen Molen, stellingmolen 02aW.JPG]] with a normal space in "Den Steenen" gives the red link File:A Boechout, Den Steenen Molen, stellingmolen 02aW.JPG. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:47, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
(ec) There's a weird 'space' in the filename (%C2%A0) that's breaking the link. It should be linked as File:A Boechout, Den Steenen Molen, stellingmolen 02aW.JPG (see source), or reuploaded on Commons under the correct filename. EdokterTalk 11:55, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the fix. Mjroots (talk) 11:57, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
Coming soon (unless brion reverts it). --Splarka (rant) 07:30, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Cascading template transclusions

I'm unsure of what template is causing this, but editing almost any city article (for instance:,_Washington&action=edit ) shows every single country data and every single country flag template shown as being used in the article. The reverse is also true, trying to find which articles use a country template shows hundreds of small towns, making What Links Here unusable. I'm not savvy enough on template transclusions to figure out why, but this is unusable trying to track down errors in usage. SchmuckyTheCat (talk)

Looks like it's just been fixed, perhaps by this edit. The error occurred when lat and long were included in {{Infobox settlement}} (as they usually would be), but I hadn't got as far as working out what went wrong.-gadfium 00:20, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, I just fixed the general problem at Template:CountryAbbr by adding a case for when the first parameter is empty, rather than going to CountryAbbr2 which has a ton of templates in it. I also restored a bunch of stuff that had been removed at Odessa, Washington, which is what triggered this problem there. — RockMFR 00:23, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
And if you see this giant list of templates anywhere else, it's probably because the article is using a flag template in the subdivision_name parameter - just replace it with the country name, linked or unlinked. — RockMFR 00:36, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
Oh, there are thousands of them. Every flag template shows thousands of towns, large and small. SchmuckyTheCat (talk)

Wikipedia's search index is apparently not being updated

It appears to be unchanged for the last several weeks. I could not find a bug report or discussion anywhere else. There must be other Wikignomes who are annoyed or stymied by this situation. I would appreciate any information. Chris the speller (talk) 16:15, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Yes, it looks like for last 10 days due to this bug which keeps halting the incremental updater for en.wp. --rainman (talk) 16:37, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the update (pun intended). I'll take your word for it, though reading the bug report doesn't give a clue that it's the cause, at least to a non-wizard like myself. Chris the speller (talk) 01:42, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
The indexing process has now resumed, should catch up by tomorrow. --rainman (talk) 10:39, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
It seems to be caught up now (at least for the one article I care about :) Thanks.--SPhilbrickT 12:17, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Link problems

Sometimes the hard bracket for external linking doesn't work becuase of characters in the link. For instance "doctor+who"+"guest+star"&cf=all or even"doctor+who"+"guest+star"&cf=all. Does anyone know the solution? - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 16:57, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

See Help:URL and meta:Help:URL#URLs in external links. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:14, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
So I've to to do a bunch of hexadecimal ASCII values with a percent sign in front? Yikes! - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 17:27, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
In your example it's enough to replace " with %22: PrimeHunter (talk) 21:17, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
See also {{urlencode:}}. --Splarka (rant) 08:04, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Please help with trouble getting ref citation to work right

I love me some properly cited source references! I just attempted to add a source citation for Rock Hill, South Carolina, but it would not work right. If you click edit, look in the code for "|population_metro " (Metro Polulation) in the infobox. The citation appeared properly in down in the References section below the article but only a garbled mess would show where the small citation number should have been next to the fact in the article. For now I've left my cite code intact within a caption-out, but why was this not working? If you remove my caption tags and use preview you can see what was happening. But if you're about to say that you can't cite a source within an infobox I'll point out numerous examples where that isn't the case, including several citations I've successfully added within the infobox for State University of New York at Plattsburgh. So then why can't I get my citation to work in the Rock Hill infobox? What should be done? Thanks.

It's definitely a problem with the individual Infobox settlement template (not you!). See talk. - Jarry1250 [ In the UK? Sign the petition! ] 19:15, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
See Template:Infobox settlement#Usage. Many infoboxes process some of the parameters in a way that only works when the parameter has a certain form, for example only contains digits or doesn't contain a reference. Template:Infobox settlement works around this by introducing extra parameters for references. Some other infoboxes cannot make references at all. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:25, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Random Article.... In a category

I think the Random Article feature is fantastic. But I have to usually go through 10 to get to one even remotely interesting to me. I think there should be a way, if there isn't already, to let you search in categories and sub-categories. —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 21:31, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

See PrimeHunter (talk) 22:10, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
This is oft requested for core but inefficient due to a lack of an index per-category. See also bugzilla:2170 and bugzilla:15824. There is a trick if the category is especially huge, like Category:All disambiguation pages, you can do something like this: User:Splarka/randab.js. --Splarka (rant) 08:00, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Specific template question

This is a question about a specific template, and I don't know if it's a software bug or just that the template itself needs to be adjusted (it's a complicated template, and I wouldn't dream of editing it myself as I haven't got a clue how this would be done).

Please notice that, at least in IE 7, all the flags of the "Succeeded by" states are almost invisible, with most of each flag disappearing off to the right side of the box. I logged out to check how it looked, because I've noted that pages will often have a different appearance when I am logged off. There was no difference; all "Succeeded by" flags were still cut off to the right. I also tried to increase the width of the box using the "width =" parameter. The width did increase, and I went up to 650px; however, the flags were still cut off to the right no matter how wide I made the box. I started to report this as a software bug, but since I wasn't certain it is a software bug, that page sent me to this Village pump page. How can this be fixed?
 —  .`^) Paine Ellsworthdiss`cuss (^`.  18 August 2009, 20:52 (UTC)
I see the problem in IE8 with compatibility mode enabled but not in normal IE8 or in Firefox or Google Chrome. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:18, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
Here's another unusual case: List of Charmed characters – in this case the TOC is on the right, and many of the words in the sections run off the TOC to the right (again, in my IE7).
 —  .`^) Paine Ellsworthdiss`cuss (^`.  19:24, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

(out) I just learned something new about all this. I was having a problem building a Navbar (discussion here in case anybody's interested), and it was discovered that the type of skin chosen can make all the difference in the appearance of things. I had been using "Simple". Evidently, general readers of Wikipedia always use the "MonoBook" skin. I switched to MonoBook and it did make all the difference. Now the Navbar looks the same whether I'm logged in or logged out.

Pertinent to this problem, that is of text and images being cut off on the right, I checked the List of Charmed characters and it appears okay in the MonoBook skin (again using IE7 web browser). However, I also checked the Austria–Hungary article, and the flags are still only barely visible, even in MonoBook. So I'm still wondering if the Template:Infobox former country is in need of repair?
 —  .`^) Paine Ellsworthdiss`cuss (^`.  08:04, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Adding a user's last contribution date to {retired} and other wiki-break templates

Possible? MickMacNee (talk) 18:59, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

{{retired}} already has a date parameter, that specifies exactly this, so you mean filling it automatically? I think it isn't possible, unless somebody wrote a bot to do it. Svick (talk) 21:15, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
'date' is just a user entered and optional parameter. My intention is to display the date of the user's actual last contribution, automatically. MickMacNee (talk) 21:33, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
Automatically is not possible without the aid of a bot. --Izno (talk) 22:23, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
Bit out of date but here were my musings on it: User:Splarka/userstatus. --Splarka (rant) 07:41, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

A page move

I'm having a technical difficulty with moving Sakai Women’s Junior College to Sakai Women's Junior College. Is this problem with my computer or Wikipedia that is broken? -- Taku (talk) 01:30, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Some skins are broken when you try to move pages with a special character. See bugzilla:20027. A fix was written 5 weeks ago but has unfortunately not been applied yet so people keep reporting the problem in different places. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:47, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
I changed my skin temporarily, and it worked like a charm. Thanks a lot. (Of course, ideally, I shouldn't have to do this workaround, though.) -- Taku (talk) 02:04, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
It's possible to move such pages without changing skin by manually changing %25 to % in the url after clicking move. r53385 changed status yesterday so the fix may be close but I'm not sure how to read such logs. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:24, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Printing out old article versions

If I print out an article from its history, the pink banner which is visible on screen ("This is an old version of the page, as edited by xxx on xxx etc etc") does not print out (I've tried several pages). I'm sure it used to. Is this a deliberate change? If so, why? I found the printed banner just as useful as the one on screen.

Thanks for any info and help (talk) 05:53, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Shows up on "Printable Version" for me, and I don't see any recent edits to MediaWiki:Revision-info, MediaWiki:Revision-info-current, or MediaWiki:Print.css that would cause it. Odd. --Splarka (rant) 07:38, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
Oops, it is hidden. It is because of #contentSub ... {display: none;} on MediaWiki:Print.css added here. --Splarka (rant) 07:49, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
It is pertinent to have the date printed, back, I mean printed on the bottom of the printable version. This serves a minimum of "priority date" (publication date) e.g. for legal purposes where users like offical organisations save a printed or PDF-printed version in their repositories as prior art. Please can the persons in charge of this restore the #contentSub value so that the date is printed ? --Wikinaut (talk) 09:14, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

You should be able to show this by adding this rule to your CSS:

/* print contentSub for revisions */
#contentSub {display: block;}
Updated after some testing. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 12:43, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Let me know if this works and I will add it to Help:Printable. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 09:50, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

Of course, this works for logged-in users having applied this patch to their personal css file, but I suggest to revert to former print layout, so that the date (at least) is printed out for everyone incl. anonymous users who need to cite Wikipedia articles as prior art: for this, to have a printed date on the printed out is mandatory. --Wikinaut (talk) 06:56, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
Agreed. There are lots of people (several thousand) who may need to reference Wikipedia on occasion and need the revision date on what they print, and not all of them are computer-savvy enough to follow these instructions, not to mention find the instructions in the first place. --DachannienTalkContrib 15:06, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
This was changed in order to hide the "Redirected from:" basically. The idea is that contentSub should always be website interface related and thus useless in print. What is needed here is for bugzilla:16428 to be fixed instead. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 10:20, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
Looks like we have an immediate fix and a better solution in the works (someday). ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 10:40, 20 August 2009 (UTC)
If the goal is to hide "redirected from", why not just wrap MediaWiki:Redirectedfrom in something like <span class="noprint mw-rdfrom">(Redirected from $1)</span>, and then properly restore contentSub to print (and then remove anything else deemed unnecessary for print, manually)? --Splarka (rant) 07:28, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Revision timestamp on printable version

Would it be possible to have the revision timestamp (i.e., "Revision as of 12:34, 8 July 1990") included on the printable versions of older versions of pages? There are certain folks who rely on Wikipedia from time to time for finding information that was known to the public before a particular date, and evidence of that date is extremely helpful. Currently, the viewable version lists the timestamp, but the printable version only says "This version of the page has been revised." Thanks! --DachannienTalkContrib 16:03, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

You can print the version that you view on your screen. hmwitht 16:07, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
#Printing_out_old_article_versions. --Splarka (rant) 07:39, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
Oops, sorry, didn't realize that was there. I'll take my further comments up above. Thanks! --DachannienTalkContrib 15:03, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
And Help:Printable#Controlling print. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 12:45, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Rendering of phi in <math>

The Greek letter phi has two lowercase versions: φ and ϕ. They can be written in TeX as \varphi and \phi, respectively. Using <math>, bot render correctly in the PNG format (\varphi: , \phi: ), but in the HTML format, \phi is rendered as \varphi (; \varphi is always rendered in PNG, at least under default settings). The article phi (letter) states that IE 6 has the versions of phi switched, so that it probably renders correctly in it, but not in most other browsers. I think it is bug in texvc. Shouldn't this be fixed? Svick (talk) 21:34, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Simetrical has given a great explanation of this issue in bugzilla:1347. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 22:22, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
Basically HTML renders in unicode φ (GREEK SMALL LETTER PHI, U+03C6, can be stroked or loopy depending on font of the user) ϕ (GREEK PHI SYMBOL, U+03D5, SHOULD always be stroked). This opposite to latex where \varphi: should always be loopy and \phi: should always be stroked. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 22:30, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the explanation. Svick (talk) 22:32, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
This is also why varphi is always rendered in PNG mode, because it guarantees consistent rendering unlike the HTML mode. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 22:37, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
Then why isn't \phi also always rendered in PNG mode? Svick (talk) 22:47, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
I often type the entity symbol for phi (&phi;). I would prefer that TeX rendered in HTML mode matched that, rather than forcing an image. It is possible to force the image manually by adding \, to the TeX, if an image is necessary. But it would be very bad practice to have an article where both variants are used with different meanings, so the variation usually causes little confusion. — Carl (CBM · talk) 22:52, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
But if you use only \phi in an article and it is sometimes rendered as φ (HTML, in simple formulas) and sometimes as ϕ (PNG, in complex formulas), it can cause confusion to someone, who doesn't know that there are two variants of phi. Svick (talk) 23:08, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
The same is true when I manually type &phi; and also have PNG formulas that use phi, if the user's fonts don't match the TeX fonts. So just making TeX always display as a PNG doesn't solve the problem. But I don't think the potential for confusion is really that large, especially because use of φ is not that common apart from specialized articles. — Carl (CBM · talk) 23:38, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
(e/c)Well the primary reason is that images are not easily copy paste-able and editable outside Wikipedia. And as such the PNG mode of the renderer should be avoided wherever possible. We don't enforce \phi because, unless you use a very old operating system or fonts that you shouldn't be using regardless and that are violating standards (unlike the \varphi case which has allowed ambiguity in unicode), that symbol will always be stroked regardless of PNG or unicode rendering. There are likely minor differences between the two modes, but the basic shape should still be the same. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 23:42, 22 August 2009 (UTC)
No, \phi (stroked in PNG) is rendered in HTML as U+03C6 that can be either loopy or stroked according to the Unicode standard, and from my testing it seems that it looks loopy everywhere except Mac OS, where it is stroked. I think that \phi shoud be rendered as U+03D5. Of course I agree that PNG should be avoided where possible. Svick (talk) 11:43, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
Hmm, you are right. I'll file a bugreport on this. P.S. the rendering of U+03C6 is dependant on the FONT used, the platform is not really relevant. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 12:30, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the bugreport. You are right that the rendering depends on the font, but most users don't change their browser/OS font settings, so it is important, how it renders with current font settings in Mediawiki and usual font settings of users. Svick (talk) 14:07, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Creating articles with hash characters

No, not those hash characters

I'm sure this has been raised before, and feel free to redirect this query to the archives if this has been exhausted, but I am wondering if it is possible to create an article at a title which begins with a hash character (#). #welovetheNHS (notability) is the example that prompts me to ask this, but with the increasing profile of Twitter and it's hash tags, there are likely to be others. If it's not possible to create articles with such titles, is a {{lowercase}}-style workaround available or feasible? Thanks in advance,  Skomorokh  16:41, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

Titles cannot '#'. See Wikipedia:Naming conventions (technical restrictions)#Forbidden characters. PrimeHunter (talk) 17:18, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
welovetheNHS_(Twitter_trending_term) or something like that will have be used I suppose if that Article is created.----occono (talk) 17:00, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

squirrelly image

I'm working on updating the article Osborne Reef, and was considering replacing one of the images therein. This is the original image, which works just fine, but I was thinking about replacing it with this image (which I've saved into the article for the time being), which for some reason will not show through. I've checked with Safari and Mozilla Firefox, and neither will properly show the commons image in the Wikipedia article. Can anybody help me with this issue? — pd_THOR | =/\= | 19:15, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

I can see it in the article just fine. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:18, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
Really? What, then, would be the problem on my end that two separate browsers cannot see this one single image, but can see the rest just fine? — pd_THOR | =/\= | 19:20, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
I don't know, have you tried clearing your cache? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 19:24, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
Yeah, definitely, to no avail. — pd_THOR | =/\= | 19:41, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

New data, a friend of mine in North Carolina also gets no image appearing for her in Firefox, Opera, and Internet Explorer. Does this help at all in any diagnoses? — pd_THOR | =/\= | 19:41, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Wiggity, it's showing now for both of us. Dunno what the problem was, but I'm willing to wager MSGJ (talk · contribs) magik'd it better. Sorry for the intrusion, folks! — pd_THOR | =/\= | 20:20, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Long delay when displaying article history

This just started happening yesterday (or maybe Friday). When I click on the History tab to review the history of an article, suddenly, it takes a loooooong time from the time the page is completely displayed, until I have control of my cursor. For example, if I want to check a diff, once the page has completely loaded, it may take 30 seconds before my cursor is available. The page is just frozen. It does eventually break loose, but until then, I have to just wait before I can do anything. Like I said, this never happened before until this weekend. I'm using Firefox. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 19:32, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like bugzilla:19287 (see workaround). Did you just update to Firefox 3.5? — RockMFR 21:03, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I think so. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 22:14, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
OK, I have no idea what all of the tech talk in those links is saying, except that the bug is supposedly fixed? But it's still happening to me. Who then was a gentleman? (talk) 22:15, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
That is likely because there is a difference between fixing a bug and deploying said fix. The current installation of the software is about 2 months old compared to the actual latest development of the software. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 22:47, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

ParserFunctions within style definitions

I tried the following as a test to {{backlognav inner}}:

 ! style="background-color: {{#ifexpr:{{{2}}}>=0|#f2dfce|#ddddff}}; font-weight:normal; text-align: left;"|*'''[[:Category:{{{1}}}]]''' - {{#switch:{{{2}}}

instead of

 ! style="background-color: #f2dfce; font-weight:normal; text-align: left;"|*'''[[:Category:{{{1}}}]]''' - {{#switch:{{{2}}}

A look at the history of {{X7}}, {{X8}} and {{X9}} should provide the set of transclusions that give the end result. Instead of a varying background colour, I end up with "1. ddddff" or "1. f2dfce" at the start of a new line. This is rather difficult to explain when SoxBot is reverting the change after 3 minutes (the sandboxes themselves have comments saying they will be cleared after 12 hours). The idea is to use the "normal" blue background colour if there is no backlog, and the red one if there is. I am experimenting to see if this is possible (since I may do something similar on my own wiki) before actually proposing to change the real thing. How do I achieve this effect? (talk) 00:52, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Perhaps putting <nowiki> tags around the hexadecimal numbers (including the # symbols) would fix it? MediaWiki seems to treat # and * symbols at the beginning of a parser function parameter as though they were the start of a newline, and since "#" is the start of a numbered list, that could cause a problem. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 00:55, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
It would be even better if you put the # outside the ParserFunction. --Locos epraix ~ Beastepraix 01:19, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Results are at User: I now have no colour change, and some odd spacing. I fail at logic (amongst other things). I got the test wrong (>= vs >). Now it works, what do people think of the looks? I'm tempted to propose this elsewhere on the 'Pump. (talk) 01:36, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Honestly? I think that that is awesome. It would make it nice & easy to see what's backlogged and what isn't. I'd just go ahead and make the change; WP:BOLD and all that. :) If someone doesn't like it it can be reverted and discussed. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 01:41, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Done[4][5][6]. Now to retreat from the fan before anything hits it. :-) Result can be seen at {{Admin dashboard}} in the CSD section. (talk) 01:58, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
bugzilla:12974. See for example Newartcieltext on *Foo. --Splarka (rant) 07:38, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Currency in the British Empire

To the best of my knowledge, no such article exists with this title. There is an article entitled sterling area but this only deals with a very specialized emergency measure that lasted from the outbreak of the second world war until the 1970's. There are alot of articles that deal with specialized knowledge about currencies within the British Empire, but it is necessary that all this information should be properly grouped and collated beginning at the top. An article with the above title would be very desirable. It could then be sub-divided into regions such as (1) British North America (including the USA), (2) British West Indies, (3) South Atlantic, (4) British West Africa, (5) British Southern Africa, (6) British East Africa, (7) The Mediterranean, (8) The Middle East, (9) India and the Indian Ocean, (10) The Far East, (11) Australia, New Zealand, and Oceania, and of course (12) The British Isles.

I have no idea how to create such a page. If such a page is created, I can't guarantee that it will be completed in less than a year but I would intend to develop the regional sections on an ongoing basis. Can somebody please help to get such an article started. David Tombe (talk) 12:32, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like an ambitious project, one that would work best with the collaboration of others. However, I don't think that "Technical" is the best place to get responses.
I see that there is a Wikipedia:WikiProject Finance. Perhaps posting there and/or contacting some of the people listed there would help.
I'd want to spend a little time discussing the idea with others, to determine the best outline—you suggest geographical, which might be right, but chronological is a possibility, and it makes sense to think it through before putting down too much that would need to be reorganized.--SPhilbrickT 14:26, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
I agree with Sphilbrick that it's a big undertaking. I don't know much about British currency, but I can help with organization and such if you need. I'd get started in your userspace: perhaps at User:David Tombe/Currency in the British Empire. Then, I'd have a section for each region, then a basic (paragraph or two) summary. I'd basically organize it using summary style. I also agree that this isn't the best place to get help/ideas. I'd second opening discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Finance. hmwitht 14:37, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

It would lean more towards being a historical article rather than a finance article. It would begin on a skeleton basis and get filled in gradually over time. It just requires somebody who knows how to start a new article in order to get it kicked off. David Tombe (talk) 17:09, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Actually, I don't intend to mess around in sandboxes. Most of the work will be in the individual articles, and some of it is already done. It's merely a question of getting an article with an overview structure. You seem to think that it would be an ambitious project. If you're not sure about it, then why not try out a miniature forerunner of it in the form of an article entitled 'The History of Currency in the British West Indies'. Most of the work for that is already done. I've only got Jamaica and the Bahamas left to do. David Tombe (talk) 18:17, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

Problem previewing in the Wikipedia editor

Today I am experiencing problems previewing edits in the browser. Instead of giving me the preview it attempts to open "index.php" in Windows' Notepad application. Several attempts have to be made before I get the preview properly. __meco (talk) 19:57, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

If "Use external editor by default" or "Use external diff by default" is checked under Editing at Special:Preferences then uncheck them. PrimeHunter (talk) 20:02, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Neither is checked. __meco (talk) 20:20, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

IGGP site missing!

Hello, I am the chair of the Steering Committee of the International Grape Genome Program ( This page has been operational recently (at least a couple of weeks ago). I checked the page today and it won't open. I don't know what to do. Has it been deleted? Has the link been damaged? Any advice on what I must do would be most helpful. Grant Cramer —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grant Cramer (talkcontribs) 01:56, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

If you are trying to find out why that particular website is down, as the whole of seems to be inaccessible, I would suggest you contact the IT Department of University of California, Davis who host the site according to its WHOIS information.
Please note that this Village pump page is used for reporting and commenting on technical issues relating to Wikipedia, the Computing Reference Desk would be a perfect place for you to ask any further questions. Nanonic (talk) 02:40, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
I think Grant Cramer might be advising us that he has had trouble accessing International Grape Genome Program. That page loads fine for me, and I don't see any recent edits to it or its transclusions, so I think he must have encountered some momentary server glitch, which is not reproducible.-gadfium 05:16, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Template problem

In the WEZV article, {{cite book}} doesn't display like it should. Also, I don't know how to replace the ISBN with the ISSN.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 13:37, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

I suggest you ask on Template talk:Cite book as there may be people familiar with the template there. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:12, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Thank you.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 16:18, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Infobox split a reference in half

WNCC-FM is where I have a problem.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 16:34, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Okay, I fixed it by using a template, but what if the same thing happens to others? It's still in the history.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 16:38, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

I guess you refer to the long url in [7]. It's split for me in Google Chrome but not in IE8 or Firefox. Long strings without spaces can result in different things depending on browser and circumstances. The html looks OK to me so I don't think we should do anything (except encourage link titles for url's like we already do). PrimeHunter (talk) 19:26, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

You have new messages (last change).

This shows up on this computer every time I go to my favorite page.

It says I'm signed in, but only on that page. (talk) 15:11, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

First entry on /FAQ: If something looks wrong, purge the server's cache, then bypass your browser's cache. (talk) 15:59, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Fixed. I didn't tell them about it, but the problem has gone away. (talk) 23:13, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

IE8 / Wikipedia edit & diff screen weird behaviour

I waited as long as I could to install Win IE8 (and suspiciously, got a flood of custom auto-install options after I did so, almost like MS was holding stuff back until I did so). I'm now noting two weird behaviours, running MS Win XP MCE SP3 (current) and IE8 (current) with a 1280x1024 monitor, Monobook skin with minimal preferences set and no personal .js that I could possibly imagine would have an influence:

  • When I open this diff with whatever default pixel size my system presents, right under the Robert Johnson yellow-bit in the left ("before") column, there is a horizontal scroll bar which can't be scrolled, i.e. it is an autoscrolling table element that has just barely exceeded its allowed width. Dragging the window border left and right pops up unscrollable hscroll controls here and there within the diff lines, depending on the particular line content. This hints at a subtle mismatch between the class spec for "class=diffchange" and whatever lives above in the <td>, <tr> or <table> element classes, like a 1- or 2-pixel mismatch in specs that forces the hscroll control to appear. Does anyone else even see this happen? The scroll boxes only show up in the LHS diff column.
  • Editing page text is fine until I click down in the Edit summary box. Each character I type there seems to cause the text in the edit window just above to move up one line (so obviously it has to be an edit in mid-text, not at the page/section top). And clicking on Save page shifts it up one also. Again, does anyone else see this? It's occurred to me now that in my personal .css I suppress a link around [minor edit] just above the Save page... boxes, which I shall now test. But still...

Apologies if these are known issues, and apologies if I've managed to mess up my setup, but I really do try to be diligent about this stuff. Am I the only one to see these issues? Thanks! Franamax (talk) 00:39, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

If you fully disable Javascript, do you see the same issues ? —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:18, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
  • It's not just you. I see something similar on that diff using IE8/Vista Home Premium (up to date) using monobook. Toggling the "justify" switch on My Preferences/Appearance/Advanced makes it come and go. For me, the nonfunctional scrollbar appears above the June Johnson diff line's "before", obscuring much of the previous line for Jordana Y Shakoor. LeadSongDog come howl 03:18, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Ah, more subtle than I thought. I do see it on the Robert Johnson line too, when the width of the window is such that the space following the </ref> tag partially fits within the window, thereby invoking the scroll function. The scroll bar does work when the window is slightly narrower, but it only scrolls half a character width. —Preceding unsigned comment added by LeadSongDog (talkcontribs) 03:39, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Automatic calculation with decimals

Hi! On small Wikipedias, like eu:wp we have a problem having up to date all the data concerning places. It would be great if we could have a template that automatically calculates density, since area doesn't change but population does. I have created a template on eu:Lankide:Theklan/Dentsitate kalkulagailua and the results can be seen on eu:Lankide:Theklan/Proba orria. The problem is that in Basque we use a , instead of a . for decimals, so when I try to use it with real data I can't get a result as the program doesn't know how to manage a comma symbol. Does anyone know what can I do for solving this? -Theklan (talk) 14:06, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

I've just read mw:Help:Calculation and it seems MediaWiki doesn't support anything except points for decimal separators :( — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:10, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the info and link, MSGJ. It's a real pity. Maybe it can be done in a way a subtemplate takes the data and converts it... does anybody knows if there is a magic word that changes a letter? -Theklan (talk) 14:19, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
I opened bugzilla:20386 for this problem. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 14:27, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks again. -Theklan (talk) 14:36, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
{{formatnum:}} will localize the decimal and group separators into the local language. Tested on German Wikipedia. See also: mw:Help:Magic words#Formatting. — Dispenser 05:59, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Loss of Session data

Every now and then, when I save, it says my session data has been lost. I have tried logging out/in, but, it still happens. Any ideas? I am using Windows Vista Business with Service Pack 2, and Google Chrome in the beta channel.--Unionhawk Talk E-mail 00:37, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Manipulate listed pages in a category without a bot

Is it possible to manipulate the listed pages in a category without a bot?

For example, if I wanted to take the articles listed in Category:Articles for deletion and make links from those names to google news with every article, would that be possible?

Push Play would become

I would like this to be a dynamic list, which changes as the Category changes (I know how to do this manually already).

Thank you. I hope this was clear enough. Ikip (talk) 21:22, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

You could write a Javascript, that makes the following query query. And then gcmcontinue in 10 by 10, generate links from that json, and output it when ever you visit User:Ikip/mylist for instance. Not too difficult, but not static either. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 21:52, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
thank DJ, more complex than I hoped. I appreciate your suggestion. Ikip (talk) 19:30, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Tool or script to quickly upload files locally

Is there a tool or script to quickly locally upload files hosted on commons, which only sysops can do, or if not, could one be developed ? That would be most useful to locally upload heavily used commons images for local protection (since commons doesn't protect locally high risk images), manually it would be tiresome. Cenarium (talk) 00:49, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

There isn't really anything in place on WMF to do that. You could write your own bot or use pywikipediabot (I believe it has an upload module). Also coming soon-ish should be the new upload API, abstracting uploads and making them much easier for a bot, and for uploads by URL, which should work for commons images just fine, and this could potentially be scripted in javascript, since there are no security issues with a URL input field (as opposed to a file upload dialog box). A few years ago I wrote some batch upload javascript, but it is very annoying to use. --Splarka (rant) 08:00, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
I know this is an archived page, but this may help others who are searching for a response: Adamtheclown (talk) 18:39, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Wikipedia SearchBox

Hi, I am new to Wikipedia and after reviewing the help articles I still cannot find how to put the Wikipedia search box on our web page. I want to create an "educational page" on our web site, linking to the wikipedia pages that provide educational content about our injection molding process. I saw on another site I use a box where the user can actually search the Wikipedia from our site. It has Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and a search box and a language box. I have not been able to locate in the help where to download this to put into my web page.

As for linking, am I correct that I can just put a hyperlink on our web page to an article, composing a brief description from the article.

Thanks! (Hope I posted this to the correct place!)


--GSIB1 (talk) 12:40, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Using Google I found a page describing how to do this. The last code snippet should work for you. Svick (talk) 13:35, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Section anchor and special characters

When a section heading contains non-alphanumeric characters, then the corresponding anchor contains this characters somehow encoded. I think that the encoding is to convert the characters to UTF-8 and use every byte written hexadecimally and preceded by a dot. I also think that this encoding applies to all characters except 0–9, a–z, A–Z and :. Am I correct? And where can I found more information about this? Svick (talk) 19:52, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

See /includes/parser/Parser.php function formatHeadings (look for $wgEnforceHtmlIds) and /includes/Sanitizer.php function escapeId. --Splarka (rant) 07:20, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. Svick (talk) 09:38, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
I don't know your goal but {{anchorencode:string}} at mw:Help:Magic words#URL data may be useful. PrimeHunter (talk) 02:12, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

FWIW, I've been meaning to change this. HTML 5 lets us use basically anything we want for anchors — the sole restriction is that it can't contain whitespace. So we could pretty much not mangle them any more than we mangle article names for URLs. I'll probably put some work into that sometime; I'd have to test it pretty thoroughly to make sure it actually works. (Actually, we could already have much nicer anchors just with XHTML 1.0. That's what $wgEnforceHtmlIds was originally about. But we may as well go with HTML 5 instead, since that allows punctuation and such as well as non-ASCII letters. Plus it allows initial digits, etc.) —Simetrical (talk • contribs) 11:21, 21 August 2009 (UTC)

We generate them using the URL escape mechanism (which escapes all bytes but [0-9A-Za-z\-.:_]) and then replace '%' with '.'. The problem is with undoing it due it to collisions with '.' followed by a numerical sequences. A simple algorithm would produce invalid UTF-8 and it would also have to avoid []{|} characters and tags that are recognized by MediaWiki. The anchor decoder finished implementing last week (part of uses a regular expression to find all the valid permutations, such that it will produce the same anchor output. I also doubt that we'll change it since it would break all current links or require two sets of anchors. — Dispenser 23:47, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Rendering of ogg player

In Firefox 3.5 — which has native .ogg support — when {{infobox single}} is used, the "player" bar leaves the content area (in Vector skin) on the resolution of 1152×864 on New Divide. Had a brief look on Bugzilla, which pulled up nothing. Should such a report be left on Bugzilla or is this really a Firefox rendering problem? --Izno (talk) 14:08, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

bugzilla:19915. If I remember well, this is actually the "minimum size" of the Firefox native controls. But I might be mistaken. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 16:28, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Ok, wasn't sure if that bug was relevant (should've actually looked at it). Thanks TheDJ. --Izno (talk) 20:44, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

When not logged in, text overlaps on top line

Before I login, and when I use a larger font size in a smaller window the text on the left and right sides of the top line overlap.

The overlapping texts are:

"Wikipedia is sustained by people like you. Please donate today."


"Try Beta Log in / create account"

-- Dougher (talk) 17:34, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

Well then don't ... If i make the window 250 pixels wide it starts doing weird stuff as well. :D —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 17:54, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

It's the only thing on the page that does this when I view it. -- Dougher (talk) 01:22, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Any website is going to show up oddly formatted if the text is enlarged and the window is narrowed. There's no way to avoid it other than making one column of left-justified text. If all websites were like that, it wouldn't be pretty. Remember what webpages looked like 15 years ago? hmwitht 01:28, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

waiting for toolserver

Today when I try to go to my watchlist, I get a long delay "waiting for". It works after several seconds. Is this some sort of temporary delay? Bubba73 (talk), 16:31, 24 August 2009 (UTC)

And there is a lot of "waiting for" today too. Bubba73 (talk), 16:51, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
As of now, the delay isn't as long. Bubba73 (talk), 18:22, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
Now it is slow again. Bubba73 (talk), 16:34, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
Now the speed is OK. Bubba73 (talk), 02:00, 26 August 2009 (UTC)
Which country are you in? Check the news to see if there is a recent problem with your internet. For example, (This happened to India) an undersea cable broke, and all internet traffic was diverted through Russia. If it is something like this, it will probably be fixed in about a week. ManishEarthTalkStalk 09:20, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

table formatting - italics work, bold doesn't

In Help:Table#Style classes some sample code is given: style="font-style:italic;". This code works as advertised, but changing the code to create bold text instead of italics does not work as expected. Is this a bug? ~ PaulT+/C 03:10, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

style="font-weight:bold;" gives bold. Ruslik_Zero 04:21, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
Great... any reason why the code isn't consistent between italics and boldface? ~ PaulT+/C 07:05, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
If they had the same property name, you couldn't control them separately. Like if you had a parent with both bold and italic, and you had a descendant you wanted to remove just the italics on, you can do style="font-style:normal;" and keep the bold. This lets it cascade. See this thing. --Splarka (rant) 07:32, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Templates hate external links

External links break templates. Does anyone know why? Does anyone know a workaround besides substituting and adding the link after the fact? Is this a consequence of our configuration, the specific templates, or the MediaWiki software? (On the specific templates point, it has affected every template that I have experimented with.) --Vassyana (talk) 23:35, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like you need to use a named parameter. {{foo|1=}}, not {{foo|}}. The equals sign in the URL breaks with unnamed parameters. --MZMcBride (talk) 23:39, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

I am referring to including external links in the "message" parameter of templates. After twiddling in the process of making and previewing examples for here, it seems it only applies to "internal" external links. For example, you cannot include diffs in warning termplates or barnstars. It will break the template posting. Example:
{{subst:The Original Barnstar|You rule for [ making barnstars] awesome! ~~~~}} produces:

Original Barnstar.png The Original Barnstar

However, it seems to work for truly external links:

Original Barnstar.png The Original Barnstar
You rule for making Google not evil! Vassyana (talk) 23:50, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Any idea what causes this? Any idea how to work around this? Should this be filed as a MediaWiki bug? --Vassyana (talk) 23:50, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

The Google link doesn't have an "=" sign in it, but the Wikipedia link does. Here's the first barnstar if you use 1= before the message:
Original Barnstar.png The Original Barnstar
You rule for making barnstars awesome! –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 23:55, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

If the Google link had had an "=" sign in it, that would have caused the same problem. MediaWiki interpretes everything before the first = as a parameter name, so if an unnamed parameter is wanted, it can't find one. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 23:55, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
And now I feel foolish because that is what MZMcBride said, but I just didn't grok it. *hangs head in shame* Thank you for making it clear though! --Vassyana (talk) 00:14, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

New Messages

Hello. Earlier today I posted on WP:Administrators' noticeboard because new articles were disappearing and page histories were disappearing and reappearing while I was at work. Now I am at home and I am getting "You have a New Message" even though I have checked it and I "did" but I looked at it and the message won't go away. Please help.--TParis00ap (talk) 02:12, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Try clicking: [8]. –xenotalk 19:03, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

documentation for #time

Where can I find documentation for the #time function, specifically what formatting options are available?--RadioFan (talk) 19:01, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

mw:pf. –xenotalk 19:02, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
thanks.--RadioFan (talk) 19:06, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Problem with diffs

Look at this [9] diff.

I intended to add some information to this article but couldn't find what I was looking for online. I looked at the article to see how close anyone had come to adding the specific information I thought I knew. In the process, I found a strange change. I don't know what the person's intentions were, but I think I was correct to revert back the one phrase.

But that's not the problem. Look at all the red text on both sides, even where it is virtually the same. That makes it difficult to see exactly what was changed.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 20:16, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

The red text is there when whitespace is changed. If you add or remove a carriage return, MediaWiki interpretes it as though you were deleting one whole paragraph and adding an identical paragraph... I think. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 20:24, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
I guess my question is if there's any way to change that, because I've seen situations that were much worse.Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 20:36, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
I think that WikiEd has a diff function that helps to negate it. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 21:05, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
This has always bothered me, especially when people 'refactor' (or whatever it's called) a conversation that completely throws the diff off in that way, and it's very hard to tell what's new and what's just shifted up. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 22:14, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
Check out wikEdDiff for an improved diff view that recognizes block moves. Cacycle (talk) 01:09, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

whois flakiness?

I just did a whois (via the link at the bottom of the user talk page) on The service claims this IP is reserved by IANA (which makes no sense at all -- how would such an IP edit wikipedia?), but when I did "whois" from a terminal, I got a long response from APNIC (not a "reserved" error). --Thinboy00 @204, i.e. 03:53, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Template welcome anon is broken

I've been asked to bring up the fact that {{welcome-anon}} is broken here. So, look, it's retardedbad -- most users never use subst, but it only works if you do. Fix it!. -- (talk) 04:39, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

All message templates should be substituted. Otherwise later edits to the template could potentially change the original editor's intended meaning. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 14:15, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
All I know is it used to work fine. -- (talk) 23:06, 25 August 2009 (UTC)
 Done. I changed the template in question so that if anyone forgets to subst, they get this:
== Welcome to Wikipedia! ==

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages you might like to see:

You are welcome to continue editing without logging in, but you may want to consider creating an account. Doing so is free, requires no personal information, and provides several benefits such as the ability to create articles. For a full outline and explanation of the benefits that come with creating an account, please see this page. If you edit without a username, your IP address (Village pump (technical)) is used to identify you instead.

In any case, I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your comments on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your IP address (or username if you're logged in) and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} before the question on this page. Again, welcome!

Unfortunately, it looks like substing is required to make the "my talk page" link work correctly (as in "...ask me on my talk page."), so I couldn't make it work without substing. Instead I put the above warning in place. Should work unless we change the name of the mainspace (if anyone has any ideas on making this more robust, I'd love to hear them). --Thinboy00 @246, i.e. 04:54, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Is it possible to unwatch articles directly from my watchlist?

Is there some kind of gadget or something I should get for this or is it necessary to go to every page I want to stop watching & click 'unwatch'? (If the latter, I'd like to suggest that it'd be good if we could do it directly from our watchlists.) Thanks very much. --Tyranny Sue (talk) 15:13, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

The Popup gadget enables you to unwatch any page from any other page on which it is linked (including your watchlist). Hope this helps! ╟─TreasuryTagbelonger─╢ 15:15, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Of course, you can go to "View and edit watchlist" (top left link when viewing your watchlist), which allows you to see a list of every page you have watchlisted. You can go down the list and tick the boxes next to the pages you no longer want to watch, and then have them removed all at once with the "Remove titles" button at the very bottom. Maedin\talk 15:31, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
You can also "edit raw watchlist", where you can just select text & delete it (if you don't want to delete all, just a some of them). hmwitht 15:36, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
You can also use a user script such as User:Alex Smotrov/wlunwatch.js. That's what I use, and it does exactly what you want - you can unwatch any page appearing on you watchlist, and if you make a mistake you can rewatch it the same way. Gavia immer (talk) 15:51, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Header format

Is it just me, or have level-three headings suddenly gotten a lot bigger?

Like this

That looks bigger than I remember. I recall a while back people were talking about how they thought the level-4 header looked too similar to the level-3 this the end result of that? Now the level-3 headers are bolder than the level-2 headers, which looks awkward to me. rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 23:00, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

There is still a difference between the level 3 and level 4 headings. Level 3 has become more bigger. Warrior4321 23:04, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
That's exactly what I said. rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 23:18, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
You asked this question:
Is it just me, or have level-three headings suddenly gotten a lot bigger?
I replied:
Level 3 has become more bigger.
All I did was answer your question, which you asked. Warrior4321 23:21, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Small/odd Wikipedia font on IE6/9x (Monobook)

Sample shot

Wikipedia on IE6/9x, with the Monobook skin, always looked wrong for me, with a too small (and ugly) font. I tracked it down to the font used in Monobook's main.css body selector, which is "sans-serif". I can get it to behave by changing the font to "arial, sans-serif".

I do have a few extra fonts installed here, not sure if it's due to that. Does anyone else see the problem? Would it make sense to change the skin's CSS, maybe in the IE6 (or <=6) CSS fixes file?

¤ ehudshapira 00:58, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

For the time being, you can change your own css via Special:Mypage/monobook.css. I'm on Linux and haven't trotted out Wine yet, so give me a minute to comment on the site (I actually can get IE6 rendering engine etc. running here). --Thinboy00 @206, i.e. 03:57, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Confirmed: I'm seeing this running IEs4Linux. --Thinboy00 @218, i.e. 04:13, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
That was unexpected but at least it shows it's not a localized issue. (IE6/XP does use Arial, isn't what you used the XP variant of IE? And doesn't it pick from the system fonts of the native OS?). Any reason not do the change in the global Monobook IE6 fixes CSS? IE6 would normally pick Arial for sans-serif, so it wouldn't negatively affect anything. ¤ ehudshapira 16:30, 29 August 2009 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk)
Thanks for the input Thinboy. I started a discussion in the skin page. ¤ ehudshapira 16:10, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Non-unique generated HTML id in Template:Citation/core

A problem with {{Citation/core}} and its derivatives like {{cite news}} and {{cite book}} is that it generates the same id for any publication by authors with the same last name in the same year. This makes it impossible to link to more than one link, and produces invalid HTML, since ids are supposed to be unique. Why not include more details, like day, month, and why not also publication, first name, ...? More discussion with examples here. --Kai Carver (talk) 11:00, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

To clarify: Citation/core is not at fault— on its own it would generate a unique id for most cases. The problem is in the citation templates such as {{cite news}} and {{cite book}} that feed into Citation/core. They have markup that converts the date to the year, which means that the same id is generated for all publications for the same author within the same year. See the linked discussion for the markup involved. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 11:15, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

wiki articles redirecting to spam websites

im having issues accessing wiki articlesvia google search. when i try to click a wiki link via the google search page i am being redirected to random spam websites (insurance, poker, porn etc) anyone else having this happen?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 14:43, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

I'm sorry to say this but that is a sign of your computer being infected with malware. There is known malware which hijacks Google searches like you describe (it's not limited to Wikipedia in the cases I have read about. You never reach Wikipedia servers in the process so Wikipedia can do nothing about it. Try to get updated anti-malware software and scan your computer. List of antivirus software may be of help. PrimeHunter (talk) 15:26, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Image thumbnail cache

Is there some WP feature which caches thumbnail images? For example, the flag in the infobox on Portalegre doesn't appear (at the moment) if I select the default 100px size, but it does appear if I change it to say 101px. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 19:50, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

Absolutely there is such a thing. I have purged the page of the image, and if you purge your browser cache, you will likely see the thumb. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 20:16, 30 August 2009 (UTC)


IM experimenting with using the media wiki api to buld a bot. I keep getting an error "needs to be in POST" if i wanted to edit, say, my user page. which url would i point my browser to. Plese use detailed steps.

Tim1357 (talk) 20:00, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

You need to use an HTTP POST request instead of an HTTP GET request. Since you haven't stated what technology you are using to access the api, I can't help you any more. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 20:21, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
I am using safari. Is that what you mean by browser?Tim1357 (talk) 21:01, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Then you need to use a JavaScript XMLHTTPRequest to do a POST. An example of it is here. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 21:21, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
I have read all the attached pages. I cant seem to understand how to use them with the WIki API. Perhaps you could give me an example. Say, I wanted to add a section to my Userpage User:Tim1357. How would the script read? Tim1357 (talk) 02:47, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
The first thing we need to know is what programming language you're using, though (Are you using Java?). Actual implementation tutorials are a bit beyond the scope of this page, but you're certainly welcome to ask about specific issues that you're running into.
V = I * R (talk to Ω) 04:37, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Finding deletion discussion

Hi, I've come across an deleted article which has been recreated (Piolet). It was an article about software named Piolet, however the word "Piolet" is also commonly used in mountaineering as it is French for "Ice Axe". Hence when it was deleted, I re-created it as a redirect to Ice axe. (Previously the article had a Template:For alternate meaning for this at the top). The article has been changed back to be about software, and I would like to delete this and re-instate the redirect. I cannot however find the discussion about the deletion, which I would like to add to the talk page to prevent further re-creation.

--Ozhiker (talk) 21:23, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

If it was deleted as a "Proposed deletion", that means it went through the WP:PROD process, rather than any formal deletion debate. You may simply revert the change (which I've actually done), or you may, should I be reverted, go to WP:AFD with the article, and note that it has a legitimate redirect to ice axe. --Izno (talk) 21:50, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
To find the reason for a proposed deletion when it wasn't specified in the deletion log, check the history of User:DumbBOT/ProdSummary. In this case, here's a revision of the list that mentions the "Piolet" page. Graham87 07:07, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Repeated refs

I know absolutely nothing about coding templates, so please bear with my ignorance; I'm just asking whether something is technically possible. A recurring referencing issue is that there is no way to cite the same book multiple (perhaps many) times in an article, with the only difference being the page number in each reference, without reproducing the whole citation each time (since the <ref name=> tag doesn't allow for alterations in the included material) or entering the text of every citation separately (which can create problems for subsequent editors of the article).

My question is whether {{Cite book}} could be rewritten to include a parameter, say "repeatcite=", that would make the reflist entries for second and subsequent citations suppress most of the unnecessarily repeated information. Consider a simple example: If one uses the {{Cite book}} template, one might produce a citation like "Johnson, John (2000). My Life. Oshkosh: Oshkosh Press. p. 102. ISBN 0-000-00000-0" (perhaps with a courtesy link from the title to an online reproduction of the page at Google Books or elsewhere). For subsequent citations, one would copy the whole initial cite-book template and paste it in each appropriate place, adding the parameter "repeatcite=yes" and changing the page number(s) (and the URL if appropriate); and the reflist would display only "Johnson, John (2000). p. xxx." (with the courtesy link, if there is one, being attached to "p. xxx"). Would such a thing be possible? desirable? Deor (talk) 15:44, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Why recopy the whole thing? You can just do {{cite book|last=Johnson|first=John|year=2000|page=xxx}}, which seems to do what you want it to do. Mr.Z-man 15:52, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Where do you want the page number? If inline, then use footnotes with {{rp}} or parenthetical referencing; if in the references section, then use shortened footnotes. Remember that the article should use a consistent method. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 16:44, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
OK, I guessed that I was overthinking this. It was just that the inadequacy of <ref name=> in this regard has been brought up so frequently in discussions of referencing. But as near as I can tell, the solution offered by Z-man above does not allow for linking to online reproductions of the pages in subequent refs, and that offered by Gadget850 might require redoing the referencing style throughout an existing article for consistency. Plus, I think the superscript page numbers produced by {{rp}} look clunky and interrupt the flow of the text. But thanks for your consideration anyway. Deor (talk) 17:14, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
I think the easiest way is, as suggested, a separate long-form bibliography at the bottom and then short-form footnotes wherever you want; this works nicely if you use the {{Harv}} citation format in the footnotes. For an example, see the references and bibliography in Chinese classifier. rʨanaɢ talk/contribs 23:00, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
I've struggled with the issue as well. I looked at {{rp}}, but like you, hated it. I'm now considering one of two options:
  1. In Hazel Walker, I list the books under references, then each footnote refers either to an online reference, or to a book in the reference list noting the author and page.
  2. In Nitrogen narcosis, all the references are within the reference section. Note, for example that footnote 1 is a complete reference, and a specific page of a book. References to other pages of that book are handled by mentioning the authors, the page number and linking to the first complete references. See reference number 4.--SPhilbrickT 02:56, 30 August 2009 (UTC)
Hazel Walker now uses an undesirable mix of footnotes and shortened footnotes; the footnotes can easily be shortened. Your method in Nitrogen narcosis works because you are referencing individual articles within a volume; I think that {{harvnb}} is intended to be used inline, not in the reference section. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 12:32, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

View prot' status of grouped articles?

(Previously asked at VPM here, but archived w/no replies.)
Is there a method or tool to view the protection status (i.e., prot'd/semiprot'd plus date status changed) of articles in a given WikiProject or category, without looking up each one individually? Thanks. –Whitehorse1 23:04, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

&generator=categorymembers&prop=info&inprop=protection... --Splarka (rant) 07:34, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
Excellent; thanks, Splarka. –Whitehorse1 15:16, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Junction templates

Would anyone mind adding an optional junction type parameter to {{jcttop}} and {{jctint}}? ~EDDY (talk/contribs/editor review)~ 00:50, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Are you looking for consensus, or for help implementing it? If the former, you should ask at one of the template talk pages, and post pointers at the other template talk page and probably at appropriate WikiProject talk pages, like WT:WikiProject Highways or WT:WikiProject U.S. Roads. If the latter, you're right here, but need to give more information about what input a junction type parameter would take, and it should be displayed. Amalthea 11:25, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
The latter. The input would be something like "interchange" or "traffic circle". It should be displayed like any other tab at the top (locaton, county, notes, mile, etc) but optional. I would also like to somehow make the "county" tab optional without "This route is located entirely within _____ County", but that is not needed. ~EDDY (talk/contribs/editor review)~ 14:26, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Slowness and redirects

Has anyone else noticed that WP seems to have slown down a bit over the last few days? When you click onto an article link, it can take a couple of seconds for the page to load, to the point of you noticing the lag while the server responds. Also, the vast majority of redirects I create time out and goto the "Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name." page at first request when I click save. Anyone else having this issue? Lugnuts (talk) 15:28, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

I've also been having very frustrating lag-ups recently. I've eliminated some javascript redrawing I had in my monobook with some improvement, but I wish I knew what was causing this otherwise. –xenotalk 15:33, 31 August 2009 (UTC)


Why can't we update this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by (talk) 17:01, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Why do you need it? Category:Orphaned articles contains currently more than 100,000 articles, so if you want to deorphan some articles, you won't run out of them any time soon. Svick (talk) 22:16, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Template:Infobox Weather

I just went to change "averages" to "data" at {{Infobox Weather}} which is semi-protected. When I open it in Firefox 3.5.2 all I get is a blank editing window. All the other stuff is there including two identical semi-protection notices. I had to switch over to IE to make the edit. Any idea what would cause this. Enter CambridgeBayWeather, waits for audience applause, not a sausage 21:55, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Specific template question from archive

Archived Discussion
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

Specific template question

This is a question about a specific template, and I don't know if it's a software bug or just that the template itself needs to be adjusted (it's a complicated template, and I wouldn't dream of editing it myself as I haven't got a clue how this would be done).

Please notice that, at least in IE 7, all the flags of the "Succeeded by" states are almost invisible, with most of each flag disappearing off to the right side of the box. I logged out to check how it looked, because I've noted that pages will often have a different appearance when I am logged off. There was no difference; all "Succeeded by" flags were still cut off to the right. I also tried to increase the width of the box using the "width =" parameter. The width did increase, and I went up to 650px; however, the flags were still cut off to the right no matter how wide I made the box. I started to report this as a software bug, but since I wasn't certain it is a software bug, that page sent me to this Village pump page. How can this be fixed?
 —  .`^) Paine Ellsworthdiss`cuss (^`.  18 August 2009, 20:52 (UTC)
I see the problem in IE8 with compatibility mode enabled but not in normal IE8 or in Firefox or Google Chrome. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:18, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
Here's another unusual case: List of Charmed characters – in this case the TOC is on the right, and many of the words in the sections run off the TOC to the right (again, in my IE7).
 —  .`^) Paine Ellsworthdiss`cuss (^`.  19:24, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

(out) I just learned something new about all this. I was having a problem building a Navbar (discussion here in case anybody's interested), and it was discovered that the type of skin chosen can make all the difference in the appearance of things. I had been using "Simple". Evidently, general readers of Wikipedia always use the "MonoBook" skin. I switched to MonoBook and it did make all the difference. Now the Navbar looks the same whether I'm logged in or logged out.

Pertinent to this problem, that is of text and images being cut off on the right, I checked the List of Charmed characters and it appears okay in the MonoBook skin (again using IE7 web browser). However, I also checked the Austria–Hungary article, and the flags are still only barely visible, even in MonoBook. So I'm still wondering if the Template:Infobox former country is in need of repair?
 —  .`^) Paine Ellsworthdiss`cuss (^`.  08:04, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Ref.: Village Pump Archive

Continued discussion

Another article has been found, the German Empire page, where the Infobox:Former Country template is used with flags. I've found that if the filename of one of the s- flags is altered, the wording pushes the right side of the template out and shows the rest of the flags. Of course, this is not a solution; however, it is at least a hint that it is the Infobox template itself that is in need of repair. I shall make my rather feeble attempt to find the problem and repair it, then I'll return here from time to time to report my progress, if any, and to pick up any tips other editors might leave here. Thank you for any help I can get!
 —  .`^) Paine Ellsworthdiss`cuss (^`.  18:31, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

  • I've done some experimenting, but nothing works so far. I cannot even suggest a bandaid, let alone a repair, to any administrator who can subsequently make changes to the template, not without having access to editing the template itself, which is protected. I did learn that if the number of flags is kept to 4, they appear toward the top of the box and are not cut off. When a 5th flag is added, then a little down arrow appears where the 4 flags were before, and the five flags all go down below in the infobox. This is where the trouble starts. As soon as the 5th flag is added and the flags are moved below, the flags get cut off on the right and are almost invisible.
Here are the first lines of two comparable Infobox templates...
  1. Infobox Former Country: <includeonly>{| class="infobox" style="background: none; border: none; width: {{{width|22em}}}; text-align: center; line-height: 1.4em; margin-right: 0;"
  2. Infobox Country: <table class="infobox {{{bodyclass|}}}" cellspacing="5" style="width: 22em; text-align: left; font-size: 88%; line-height: 1.5em; {{{bodystyle|}}}">
The width parameters in each of these is very different. Is this a possible clue as to what is wrong with the first one?... the Infobox Former Country template?
 —  .`^) Paine Ellsworthdiss`cuss (^`.  20:58, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
The clue is in the "Internet Explorer" part. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 00:44, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
Maybe, however IE doesn't have a problem with Infobox Military Conflict like the one in the Vietnam War article. So rather than blaming something that we have no power over fixing, someone who knows something about the code used in these Infoboxes ought to make them work for all browsers, skins, fonts, etc. Isn't the improvement of Wikipedia far more important than making excuses for why something isn't working properly? Are you saying that fixing this problem is something that can't be done? Is it impossible to make Infobox Former Country work correctly in Internet Explorer?
 —  .`^) Paine Ellsworthdiss`cuss (^`.  03:10, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
I'm saying that if someone was able to, that person would have done so by now I think. Which means that we probably don't have the people with these qualifications (HTML developers that can debug IE), and that the only other way to fix it, is by cutting functionality from a template because of an IE visual glitch, which seems unlikely as well. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:37, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
Okay, I'll keep trying to find a way to make it work in my browser. From what you've said, if I can get it to work in IE, it would probably be okay for any browser. Thank you very much for your input, TheDJ!
 —  .`^) Paine Ellsworthdiss`cuss (^`.  19:49, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

(out) I just found a fix for this problem, but I do not have the power to edit this template. Can someone help me?
 —  .`^) Paine Ellsworthdiss`cuss (^`.  06:11, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Editing Tool Bar

My tool bar suddenly changed and no longer has the "Wikipedia-specific" items (see the earlier link for which ones those are), and the additional tool bar link items located below the edit summary area are all now copy & paste, whereas before I'm pretty sure they were hyperlinks that would insert the item into the edit box. Is it me, or was there a software update. I use Firefox and recently updated to the newest version, but don't know if they are related. Aboutmovies (talk) 07:16, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

I just opened IE7, and the tool bar is how it is supposed to be. So I guess it is a Firefox upgrade issue, but anyone know how to fix it, short of undoing the upgrade? Aboutmovies (talk) 07:18, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
It works correctly with the most recent Firefox version for me. Here are some things you can try:
  1. As a first step, try clearing your browser cache.
  2. Check your preferred Editing options are set at My Preferences.
  3. Make sure JavaScript isn't disabled, or partly disabled, in your browser options.
  4. Browser add-ons can affect how webpages render, so trying with extensions disabled (Start>Run> firefox -safe-mode) can rule those out.
    Whitehorse1 15:39, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. I had tried clearing the cache and going through my preferences, but it didn't work. But after a re-start, it is working again. Aboutmovies (talk) 05:53, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

redirects to images


How do we redirect to images? At A, as at other letters of the alphabet, there is a {{letter}} template that generates a table of Braille, semaphore, Morse code, etc. The semaphore and signal flag images are automatically linked from the NATO "phonetic" name of the letter, which in this case is alfa. However, the relevant images were uploaded with their US spellings of alpha. Since they've been uploaded at Commons, I don't have permission to move them. It would be easiest to just redirect, but I tried that at File:Semaphore Alfa.svg and it doesn't work. kwami (talk) 23:32, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

You have to create the redirect at the same place the destination image is. So since this is an image uploaded to commons, you create the redirect at commons (it won't work locally). This makes sense when you think about it: When you move an image at commons (or when they start allowing image moving again), the redirect is created at commons, so it has to work there. Anyway, I created commons:File:Semaphore_Alfa.svg as #REDIRECT [[File:Semaphore Alpha.svg]] and now it works. --Splarka (rant) 07:59, 1 September 2009 (UTC)


Just came across this article in InfomationWeek:

  • Claburn, Thomas (August 31, 2009). "Wikipedia Considers Coloring Untested Text". Information Week. Retrieved 2009-08-31. Registered Wikipedia users may soon have access to software that colors text deemed untrustworthy. The software is called WikiTrust. It's also here as a Firefox add-on.

Note: Same entry as in Wikipedia:Press coverage 2009. Doesn't seem to be covered here in en:Wiki, but see this search in Meta. — Becksguy (talk) 23:49, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

So another thing that the press hears about before the community does? Cool. — RockMFR 00:41, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Nah, it's been on the Village Pump before now IIRC. - Jarry1250 [ In the UK? Sign the petition! ] 07:40, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
I think it is also a case of the press going wild again. If we add an "optional" feature for registered users, then this simply isn't news. The fact that it is about "trust" and in the case of flaggedrevs about "approval", seem to be an easy handle for an article, that unfortunately almost EVERYONE of the journalists, seems to not have investigated. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 12:50, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

I have yet to find an article on that this works on. Anyone know what the deal is? (talk) 05:12, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Maybe. I installed the suggested Firefox add-on from here and visited the Wiki Lab list of colored pages in en:wiki here]. Then I loaded articles and clicked "Trust Info" tab, which then downloads the trust info.
The first article on Computer science failed (Msg: "There is no trust information available for this text yet") but the article on Arawn worked, however all the content is colored with an orange background, which "... indicates new, unrevised, text..." The article on Chris Rock shows that almost all the content is colored with a background of white, which "... is for text that has been revised by many reputed authors".
So you need the following to see a demo on en:wiki: (1) Firefox, (2) An installed WikiTrust add-on (3) a working en:wiki page that Wiki Lab has set up for a demo, and (4) to click on the Trust Info tab. At least that's my experience, your mileage may vary. Note I'm using Firefox 3.0.13 on a Ubuntu Linux platform.
Becksguy (talk) 06:43, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
Ah, thanks, that explains it. I wonder if it will ever be rolled out for all articles. (talk) 16:43, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Something wrong with Template:Babel

Yesterday I put this template with four cards to my talk page. It should add the page, as I understand, to four corresponding categories, but I see only one. What's the matter? Thanks in advance. --//Microcell// 14:14, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

It was actually the be template that was broken, because Babel boxes are only supposed to put you in categories, when they are placed on the userpage of Users. At least at the moment. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 20:55, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Inconcistent capitalization resolving?

When trying to link to the article Immortal Zugzwang Game but using all lower case, the link doesn't work: immortal zugzwang game. I assume this is some subtle bug in the parsing of the name, or might I be missing a limitation (or even feature) which is indeed documented? The issue is not a big deal—pipes are our friends—but I'd thought it might help if more knowledgable people than I knew about this. So, is this a bug or a feature (documented or undocumented)? Baccyak4H (Yak!) 14:42, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

Only the first letter is automatically capitalised. Other words are treated as typed. You may move the article to the standard capitalisation and create redirects from alternate capitalisations. Compare Big brother/Big Brother and Big brother recordings/Big Brother Recordings. OrangeDog (talk • edits) 19:40, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
This is documented at Wikipedia:Linking#Piped links and probably other places. It can be used to deliberately make pages with different capitalization, for example Ecco and ECCO. Wikilinks must have the right capitalization except for the inital letter. The Go button at the search box is different. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:01, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
"Wikilinks must have the right capitalization except for the inital letter." (emph mine) That explains it. Consider this RESOLVED. Thanks PH and all who replied. Baccyak4H (Yak!)
Help:Go button is no longer correct and needs updating but I'm not sure exactly how the functionality was changed. PrimeHunter (talk) 01:08, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Note that this only applies to actual links. If you type "immortal zugzwang game" into the search box and hit enter/press go, you will end up at Immortal Zugzwang Game. Without a redirect, note. ÷seresin 01:42, 2 September 2009 (UTC)


I've been away for several weeks. What's the deal with StringFunctions? Is Tim still trying to get Lua to work? Are we still fighting over this? --Thinboy00 @349, i.e. 07:21, 31 August 2009 (UTC)

Bugzilla:6455#c86. --Splarka (rant) 07:52, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
I left after that... should I take it as a "yes, it's still ongoing" or a "nobody knows and the dev's are sitting on it and waiting for us to all forget"? Oh, and thanks for showing me the bugzilla: interwiki. --Thinboy00 @280, i.e. 05:43, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Automatically add text in the square text box?

{{resolved}} An editor can automatically add text in the Subject/headline, using a url address, like this:

Can a person using a url address add text to the large square text box also? Ikip (talk) 00:06, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't know whether the text can be written directly into the url, but the content of an existing page can be preloaded. See mw:Manual:Creating pages with preloaded text. PrimeHunter (talk) 00:43, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
thank you primehunter, I will look into that. Ikip (talk) 07:59, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
I don't think any of those options work for wikipedia. Can you give me a url example? Oh, I have used this before. I am interested in adding text to the text box from the actual URL.
Maybe: mw:Manual:Parameters_to_index.php#Options_affecting_the_edit_form, preload, anyone know an example?
It appears like mw:Manual:Creating pages with preloaded text is just to one page, not many. Ikip (talk) 03:31, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
Got it: Thanks. Ikip (talk) 07:45, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Quotation marks in external URLs

When a URL of an external link contains the " character (ordinary ASCII quotation mark, 0x22), everything after it is treated as a part of the link title and not the URL as I think it should. So ["foo link text] renders as "foo link text, but it should be link text. I've been able to work around this by replacing the quotation mark with %22. Is there a reason for this behaviour or is it just a bug? Svick (talk) 08:30, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

RFC 1738 outlines that <, >, ", and # are unsafe to transmit without encoding. MediaWiki break bracketed URLs on [, ], <, >, (space), and newlines (regex: [^[\]<>"\s]*). — Dispenser 21:43, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
See Help:URL, which leads you to meta:Help:URL. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 22:24, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Interesting, I didn't thought of that. Thank you both. Svick (talk) 10:22, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

move TOC below file in file pages

A wiki article has Title-Lead-TOC-otherContent sequence. But file: pages TOC is shown at top File:Kashmir-sat-nasa.jpg. that is title-TOC-(file)-otherContent:

       File - File history - File links

This should be moved down below the file/image which will make the page look much better. Anyways a image is restricted to 800X600 in file: page, so moving TOC down should not make any problem. There is hardly any coding required for this minor, only consensus among wikipedians required for this. Also you can suggest me some other place suitable for this proposal. Doorvery far (talk) 10:31, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

Also on clicking "File", the TOC disappears, this will be sorted if TOC is moved down. Doorvery far (talk) 10:32, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
I just moved div id = filetoc below div id = file using firebug, look of page is tidy and image looks far aesthetic. Doorvery far (talk) 10:37, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Ehm, if you move it there, doesn't it kinda void the point of having a TOC ? Navigating to sections that are not visible in the window? On a smaller screen the TOC won't even be on the first page. And this would be a software change, so it needs to go to bugzilla for mediawiki. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 11:11, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
I could understand doing this if the TOC was vertical, but its horizontal and barely takes up any space. I agree with TheDJ that putting it below the image would be mostly useless. For people with small screens and/or large font, the TOC would be below the fold. If you're going to scroll all the way past the image, you might as well just go the extra little bit to get to the file history/links directly. Putting the table of contents in what's basically the middle of the page just seems awkward. Mr.Z-man 22:38, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
TOC need not be visible in small screen monitors, people scroll down anyways. Moving it down is not of any "use" as such, only the page looks far better. With TOC next to resolution info, and image looking just below title, image looks far better without TOC border lines at top. We have to pep up image pages to make wiki compete with flickr, common user doesn't like words like file, file history etc. Doorvery far (talk) 08:02, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Why in the world would we want to "make wiki compete with flickr"? Also, BTW, don't abbreviate Wikipedia as "Wiki". Anomie 11:21, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Having the TOC not visible for small monitors is one thing, putting it in what is essentially the middle of the page just makes no logical sense at all. That would be like making a 7-chapter book and putting the table of contents after chapter 3. Mr.Z-man 16:11, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply people. I could not get a single favorable support means i should quit. Why not wp compete flickr? wp is ok for me, but it means WordPress to me :( Doorvery far (talk) 03:58, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Turn your redlinks green

I finally took some time and figured this out, so I thought I would post it in case anyone else is interested. Create your own CSS, and add the following:, #p-personal { color: #008000; }, #p-personal { color: #008080; }

Note that you can make them any color you like. For color values, see Web colors. For help creating your own CSS style sheet, see: Help:CSS
V = I * R (talk to Ω) 06:19, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Link color ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 11:31, 3 September 2009 (UTC)


Hi, I need some help relating JavaScript. I am an advanced HTML and CSS programmer and a intermediate JavaScript programmer. I want to create classes by JavaScript as I can create classes by CSS. Is it possible? Please help me. --Amit (Talk | Contribs) 13:00, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

I think you need WP:RD. This board is only for questions and issues relating to Wikipedia. Stifle (talk) 15:11, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
You need to post your question at the computing Reference Desk. But I think you also need to explain what you want a bit more, because the question does not seem to me to make sense: you cannot create classes by CSS, you use classes in your CSS selectors. If you are asking whether you can add CSS classes to elements in the DOM by Javascript, the answer is yes. See [10] for doing it in native Javascript, or [11] using the Prototype library.

Internal Link syntax:

While looking through many articles, mostly record label articles, I've noticed that for most internal links, the drop down description is the same as the link text. I'd see "D&AD" as a link in an article and move the mouse there to see "D&AD" in the drop down. Not very useful if you just want a quick definition of "D&AD". I would like to make more descriptive drop downs, but I ran into a problem with the Internal Link syntax. The link in question starts with only one parameter "D&AD".

If one parameter is used, everything is fine. That parameter is used as the link test; link address and drop down text.


  • If I add the drop down text as the 2nd parameter, this drop down text becomes the link text in the article and “D&AD” appears in the drop down.
  • If I insert the drop down text as the 1st of two parameters, “D&AD” is the link text in red and the drop down says “Design and Art Direction (page does not exist)”.

This seems to indicate that the 1st parameter is the drop down text and the link address. The 2nd parameter is the link text.

In order to have a drop down that is descriptive of the link test, you must insert the drop down text as the 1st parameter which breaks the link to the related page.

It just seems a waste to have drop down descriptions the same as the link text, when these drop downs should be meaningful descriptions of the links.

It appears that in order to correct this to allow different text in the link and its drop down, the 1st parameter should be the link text and the link address. The 2nd optional parameter should be the drop down text. However, if I'm correct, that would also break every existing link to related pages.

I have seen some situations with 2 parameters, such as "indie music|indie", which do work. I guess this is because "indie music" is the proper link address for the article "Independent Music", whereas "D&AD" appears to be the link address to the article "Design and Art Direction".

Any assistance is welcome.

Also, information on exactly how are these pages related.

GaryZ45RPM (talk) 21:38, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Have you enabled popups? I think that would do most of what you're looking for. --AndrewHowse (talk) 21:59, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Template:Lists of schools in Europe

I want to edit this so that the Romania entry links to List of secondary schools in Romania but I can't immediately see how to do it. Can someone help, please? TerriersFan (talk) 22:18, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

It can't be done, as that is a list of schools not a list of secondary schools! I see you have a redirect at List of schools in Romania so that's probably sufficient? Otherwise you would have to design your own navbox instead of using {{Europe topic}}. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:40, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
Otherwise you could use this template (but most are redlinks, so probably not worth it): — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 10:42, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Glitch in Murfreesboro, Tennessee footnoting

The footnote for the population_urban field in the infobox for Murfreesboro, Tennessee isn't generating right, at least for me. When I view it I see "?UNIQ457bef1e63,141,687-ref-00,000,000-QINU?" right in line with the text. Can someone who knows the ref / reflist mechanism well take a look at this? Thanks. - Jmabel | Talk 22:06, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

That parameter must be a raw numeric value with no reference. See Template:Infobox settlement#Usage. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:12, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Articles in the intersection of two categories

Hi, is there any way of finding the articles which are in the intersection of two categories? For example, suppose I want to find all articles which are both in Category:NASA and Category:Articles with unsourced statements, is there any way of doing this? Thanks, 2help (message me) 04:27, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

WP:CATSCAN, isn't this in the FAC? — Dispenser 04:49, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
Great, thanks. 2help (message me) 05:02, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

New syntax highlighter

I've created a new syntax highligher for MediaWiki that can actually highlight wikicode as you type. Right now, the script has too many problems for general use, but the technically minded might be interested:

Dot's syntax highlighter.png

The caveats are as follows:

  1. Even with a Core 2 Duo and Firefox 3.5's fast JavaScript engine, the performance is unacceptably slow on pages larger than 10 KB.
  2. Depending on your browser and operating system, the highlights may not be perfectly aligned with the text. This is due to minor rendering differences between browsers that in a perfect world would not exist.
  3. The script works in Firefox, Safari, and Chrome, but not in Opera or Internet Explorer. Opera won't scroll the highlights with the text, and Internet Explorer gives an error message when loading the script.
  4. The parser used for highlighting is very simple-minded. Most significantly, it does not understand automatically closed tags. Adding support for these tags would undoubtedly degrade performance even more. So, when editing with this syntax highlighter, make sure your code is in valid XML form, for example <br/> instead of <br>.
  5. Neither the external link syntax, the bullet syntax, or the ordered list syntax are recognized, and the <nowiki> tag is not treated specially.
  6. The highlighter does not work when uploading files.
  7. The highlighter may override your user styles related to the editing textbox.
  8. The colors I chose may not be very appealing. I'm an engineer, not an artist ;-)

I was hoping that you could think of clever ways to solve these problems. In particular, if we could resolve problems 1 and 2, the script would be much more useful to everyone. —Remember the dot (talk) 07:33, 27 August 2009 (UTC)

Just tried it on with Vector and Chrome2. Completely exploded all over the place. ^demon[omg plz] 18:02, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
Strange, when I tried Vector,, Chrome 2, and this script, they worked fine together. Maybe there's something unique about your system? Could you try it with another skin and another browser to see if the problem might be something else? —Remember the dot (talk) 04:24, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Someone has already made one of these that works pretty good, depending. I used to use it, but I've switched computers, browsers, and skins since then, and can't remember which change got rid of it. I think it required me to use firefox. I don't remember if it was a gadget or an add-on or what. - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 18:06, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
I would definitely use something like this if it was stable. Just offering my support of your goal, but I lack the Javascript know-how to help out programmatically. WikEd is too overkill for me.↔NMajdantalk 18:08, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
It was User:Cacycle/wikEd. I'm using it right now, in fact, and it's screwing up my font sizes as we speak. ;-) - Peregrine Fisher (talk) (contribs) 18:12, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
wikEd is well-done, but it lacks the ability to highlight syntax as you type. Last I checked, the user has to click a button to update the syntax highlighting in wikEd. My script can do the highlighting with no extra user interaction. —Remember the dot (talk) 04:24, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Hope the issues can be resolved, because being a web developer, I think this idea seriously rocks! -- AnmaFinotera (talk · contribs) 00:35, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
Cool idea! There is the textarea-based wikEd predecessor User:Cacycle/editor (User:Cacycle/editor.js), it might be interesting to combine these scripts. I have almost finished a non-regexp wiki syntax parser for wikEd that has full support for nested elements, you might be interested in that. I have a general question: Do you know if :before and :after are always ignored by the search function and/or screen readers in all browsers? Cacycle (talk) 12:44, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
Yes, I hope that my highlighter will prove useful not only on its own, but in combination with other tools. However, I'm leaving it up to the creators of those other tools to do the integration ;-)
Whatever parser is used for the syntax highlighter, it has to be lightning fast. I found that I could achieve much better speeds by using regular expressions in some places.
Internet Explorer, Firefox, Chrome, and Safari ignore :before and :after in searches. Opera does not. I don't know about screen readers, but if you have to use a screen reader, colorful text likely will not do you much good anyway. —Remember the dot (talk) 04:24, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
I was actually asking for another project and had to learn it the hard way: MS-IE 8 seems to run in MS-IE 7 compatibility mode on Wikipedia and ignores :before and :after completely :-S But screen readers do ignore :before and :after text. Cacycle (talk) 15:12, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
Perhaps you and Brion could ask Microsoft to take us off the compatibility mode blacklist. —Remember the dot (talk) 01:26, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
To put this into perspective, is (or was) on the "IE8 Incompatibility List", as well as google, yahoo, ebay, youtube, wordpress, adobe, apple, ask, imageshack, amazon, aol, livejournal, and several thousand other websites "that have not yet fully accomodated IE8's better implementation of web standards." This means: IE8 is shit but "it isn't Microsoft's problem, it is the problem of the website(s) in question." Don't expect simple removal on request. --Splarka (rant) 07:07, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
This would be an excellent tool. Sifting through reams of colourless text can be a nightmare. Something specialised for complex templates would be a bonus. —Anonymous DissidentTalk 02:31, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for your support! Complex templates are a great example of where syntax highlighting would be very helpful. The major obstacle is performance, and this script is already close to being fast enough for general use. Even if no one can think of a way to make it faster on its own, faster computers and more efficient web browsers may solve that problem for us. Is there anyone out there with an i7 that could give the script a try? —Remember the dot (talk) 04:24, 29 August 2009 (UTC)
There is enough room for performance enhancement: for text-only, non-wikicode changes simply insert or delete the changed character(s), this will increase the felt speed immensely. Also, recalculate only after key and mouse events when the text has changed, this would also save battery power on laptops. Cacycle (talk) 15:12, 31 August 2009 (UTC)
Simple insertion and deletion could work, that's not a bad idea! The problem with key and mouse events is that they don't capture all of the ways that text can be added to the field. For example, if the user right-clicked and pasted text, it would generate neither a key event nor a mouse event. It would fire a nonstandard "paste" event, but the paste event (at least in Firefox) fires before text is added, not after. —Remember the dot (talk) 01:26, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Nice idea, seems pretty handy and useful. However, you should really look into existing and planned implementations before writing your own from scratch. "It's up to them to do the integration" is a bad way to think about it, and as most people have this attitude, it's sure to result in tens of implementations, each with their own shortcomings, rather than a few well-written implementations. I know it's harder, but we'll all benefit in the long run from collaboration. — Werdna • talk 20:26, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I broke the wiki

oh yes I did. I already reported it as a bug, just thought it amusing. Gurch (talk) 21:33, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, hilarious. ╟─TreasuryTagTellers' wands─╢ 21:39, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
um, what is the significance of that link in this context? Gurch (talk) 21:47, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
(edit conflict) If you don't see the link's significance, just think of it as being as relevant to your comment as your comment is to the continued smooth running of Wikipedia... :P ╟─TreasuryTagbelonger─╢ 22:24, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
so... not at all? Gurch (talk) 22:27, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
If ye can do it, so can they. Not that it really destroys the wiki, but still. Ale_Jrbtalk 22:23, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Good, it would be better if they just created amusing links rather than messing up pages. I doubt they will, though. Gurch (talk) 22:27, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
No, you're right. It was the only significance I could come up with though, so. And they'd still want to post their links somewhere. Ale_Jrbtalk 22:36, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

It doesn't mess anything up, it's just display oddness. — Werdna • talk 20:29, 5 September 2009 (UTC)


Just wondering, why is Wikipedia's favicon's background not transparent? (talk) 02:18, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Here is the transparent version. Looks like crap on non-white backgrounds (as many modern browsers will occasionally stick it). Probably why it has a white background? 'Course, it isn't hard to make a good version. But maybe that is a bit hard to see? --Splarka (rant) 07:22, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
I just figured with so many users, Wikipedia might have a few proficient with images. :P But I guess as Wikipedia's color scheme seems to be black and white, it makes sense. Thanks for the reply. :) (talk) 15:21, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Coding problems at AfD today

At Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2009 August 29, AfDs aren't closing as they should. Early closes are not collapsing as they should, and have "|}" outside the archived section (see for example: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Log/2009_August_29#Raffael_.28blogger.29). After this edit, the hanging "|}" characters seem to be gone, but closed discussions still aren't collapsing properly (see Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Log/2009_August_29#L.A._Confidential_Presents:_Knoc-turn.27al). Anyone know what's up, how to fix it?  Skomorokh  12:22, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

I think the collapse behavior was discussed and changed here: Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_deletion#Change_to_closed_discussions_making_life_harder. Evil saltine (talk) 12:24, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

Boilerplate for Files

Where can I find the boilerplate for files? You know, the page where I can add my text and the license. I mean the page that is to files, as Template:Documentation/preload is to Template:Documentation. Debresser (talk) 08:02, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

You might be looking for the links on Wikipedia:Upload? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 09:14, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
Hi. Thanks for that. I'm not sure. Would you be able to tell if any of those links was used to create File:Walking cane.jpg? Debresser (talk) 09:56, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
The uploader likely pressed "Or go directly to the upload form" on that page. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 16:03, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
And that is where I get stuck, because that page can not be edited. Which is why I aksed here. Debresser (talk) 07:40, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Checkuser and Sockpuppets

Can checkuser detect various accounts and IP's used by the same IP/Account over a period of several years? Is it true that it cannot see sockpuppet accounts older than 3 months (when those sockpuppet accounts are not used)?

What can it see? Someone give some more info on this matter.

54tg5e (talk) 10:19, 5 September 2009 (UTC)

The configuration for all WikiMedia sites is such that all data older than 3 months is removed from the table, CU can't access anything from before that point of time.
What they can see are the IPs an account has edited from, accounts that have edited (or were created) from an IP or IP range, all edits from an IP along with the last 10 Useragent strings used by a particular user. They can also retrieve XFF headers (using /xff suffix) to detect the client IP in case they suspect the account is using an open proxy (this may be useful in case of transparent proxies, but useless if the proxy is highly anonymous because those do not forward the originating IP address). Truth Lover80 (talk) 21:04, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
Anyone using proxies will be blocked anyway however, since checkusers usually check for proxies, and block any that they find. Most proxies are already blocked. Prodego talk 23:37, 5 September 2009 (UTC)


FYI (as these pages are less watched than this) - made proposals at MediaWiki talk:Noexactmatch, MediaWiki talk:Searchmenu-new, MediaWiki talk:Noarticletext. This is to include references to the Article Wizard2.0 (although Noexactmatch also has a proposed redesign - User:Rd232/Noexactmatch/Proposal). Thanks. Rd232 talk 01:16, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Please keep the text to minimum, and number of links, options, etc to minimum. --rainman (talk) 05:06, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
That's not as helpful as you might think. Do you think the Wizard is useful enough to link from some or all of these or not? Are you just posting a general principle here without examining the specific situation? Because that's what it sounds like. Rd232 talk 11:07, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
I would say it should go to Noarticletext and maybe help, but not in searchmenu-new. My comment about keeping text to minimal concerned searchmenu-new, to keep the interface clean of unnecessary links vast majority of people won't use or know what they are for. --rainman (talk) 16:17, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the clarification. I can certainly see that argument applying to searchmenu-new; but I do think it's important that the wizard is linked from places people are likely to start articles. Rd232 talk 17:27, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Add signature to template

I have this:

How do I add in the template/page (User:ikip/7) a signature which will only activate when the editor saves it.

What won't work

This works in templates but it won't work in this case....
I dont think any of the Help:Magic words will work-- unless there is a signature magic word

Any suggestions? thanks in advance. Ikip (talk) 12:57, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

  • I'm fairly certain that the use of most template constructs are intentionally turned off in signatures. The potential for others to abuse you through your signature is simply too great, which is also why you're not supposed to include any images in your sig either.
    V = I * R (talk to Ω) 14:49, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
Templates are not disabled in signatures, but are forbidden per Wikipedia:Signatures. Try ~&#126;~~ ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 15:41, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
Right, but what I meant was Magic Words and Parser Functions. I'm all but certain that they're disabled in sigs.
V = I * R (talk to Ω) 16:30, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
Pretty sure that this is what Ikip is asking for. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 16:55, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
Ah, I was looking at it backwards. He wants his signature in the template, not a template in his sig. lol... doh! :)
V = I * R (talk to Ω) 17:10, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Martin, that works? That is just like templates. Let me try.... YES it works, thank you! Ikip (talk) 02:37, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Old versions of articles missing

While researching old versions of time zone to determine when a specific change was made, I discovered that all old versions from 7 January 2005 to 13 May 2005 are empty. For example, 13 May 2005. This appears to be systemic because old versions of Wikipedia:Manual of Style (dates and numbers) from 21 January 2005 to 20:39, 12 May 2005 are also empty. For example, 23 January 2005. — Joe Kress (talk) 18:08, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

FYI this issue (for different articles) was most recently brought up at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 62#Revision content disappeared. I'm not sure if a cause has been determined. — RockMFR 19:38, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

css and external & interwiki link colors

in my css page here:

which is mostly from MediaWiki:Gadget-Blackskin.css I have the following:
a:link { color: #FFFF00; } /* this works */
a:visited { color: #EEBB00; } /* does work */
a:hover { color: #FF0000; } /* does work */
a:active { color: #EEBB00; } /* does work */

a:link.external { color: #FFFF00; } /* dont work */
a:link.interwiki { color: #FFFF00; } /* dont work */
a:link.stub { color: #FF00FF; } /* dont work */ { color: #FF0000; } /* does work */

I've tried everything and I've googled and searched and purged and bypassed caches but to no avail. I just cant get external links or interwiki links to be anything other than the default blue. stubs also dont seem to work. I set the threshold at 50 bytes but even empty stubs have ordinary links. Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 22:52, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

I think you have to specify the container for external links:
#bodyContent a.external {color: #FFFF00;}
---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 23:44, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
Thank you. ☺ I tried that earlier and it didnt work but now it does. I must have screwed it up somehow. the only thing not working now is stub links but it seems to be my preferences. I cant set to anything higher than 0. Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 00:08, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Using local time zones for the main page

How feasible would it be to use the viewer's local time to determine the content of the main page? In other words, we replace the magic words like {{CURRENTDAY}} with {{LOCALDAY}}, etc. It is not so important with most sections (e.g. TFA or DYK), but it would be a huge benefit to the Selected anniversaries section because many viewers are seeing the "wrong day" unless they happen to live in a UTC timezone. I have heard somewhere that this might cause caching problems, so I thought I'd ask here before suggesting it on Talk:Main page. — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 11:24, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

I think this is impossible because of caching. Unless the page is regenerated, everybody sees the same content. It could probaly be done by changing Wikipedia's code, so that it wouldn't cache the Main Page, but that's a very bad idea. You could also do it using JavaScript, but I'm not sure that's a good idea either. And BTW {{LOCALDAY}} is local to the wiki and not to the user. Svick (talk) 12:10, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
There's no non-accidental way to personalise content to the reader, deliberately so for caching reasons (but also for security). As Svick says, functions like {{LOCALDAY}} are not specific to the reader, but to the site as a whole. Happymelon 12:30, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
Okay, so it's a non-starter. So {{LOCALTIME}} always equals {{CURRENTTIME}} on — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 12:35, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
Yup Happymelon 16:04, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
Actually we have gender and interface language that are tied to user preferences. — Dispenser 21:14, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
AFAIK content of every page is cached independetly of the interface, so that everyone sees the same page content, but the rest may be different. As for the gender, I think you are mean the {{gender}} magic word that is used e.g. in {{User:UBX/gender}}. That is only a way to find out user's gender, but everybody sees the result the same. Svick (talk) 23:16, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
The gender preferences setting is also used to present system messages correctly (in languages where there's a difference), similarly to the user language setting. Algebraist 12:51, 5 September 2009 (UTC)
I realized I have probably been wrong. Both language and gender settings affect only the interface, not the content of the page. But setting of <math> rendering does affect the rendering of page content. So it may be possible to personalise this. Maybe by creating an extension? Svick (talk) 11:30, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

WP shows old revision

Can someone explain why clicking on Ralph Vaughan Williams produces the previous instead of the current version? And this despite refreshing the page and emptying the cache and using another browser. Even more strange is that the permanent link to the current version also shows the previous version and is missing the change shown by the difference between those versions? --Espoo (talk) 13:43, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

I saw the old version too, but purging the page fixed the problem for me. Svick (talk) 13:54, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
See Wikipedia:Purge for information about purging pages. Graham87 14:42, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks. --Espoo (talk) 11:25, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Collapsing/hiding closed XFD discussions

It has apparently been forgotten that the <div>s that surround closed AFD discussions are tagged with the "xfd-closed" CSS class. There are several people who have personal style sheets and Javascript to hide/show closed XFD discussions, derived at multiple removes, it seems, from jnothman's original script for doing this. I request that they bring Wikipedia:Tools/Editing Tools#AFD tools, apparently last modified in 2005, up to date. Uncle G (talk) 16:27, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

  • Thanks for the cough. My time has been heavily consumed by things other than Wikipedia editing since 2006. I don't think I wrote the script that you refer to, though, if it is "AFD tools". I have tracked it to an edit by ABCD; I made a comment on it in November 2005. If your concern regards afd helper, then I am responsible. jnothman talk 07:17, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
    • Well by the time it reached Quarl it was "AFD vote", so you can see the problem in tracing this by name alone. The request is, though, that those who may have updated/improved the script since, update the tools page. Uncle G (talk) 09:47, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

css color for a given class

what would I add to my css page to make text belonging to class 'mbox-text' white on black background? Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 02:46, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Off the top of my head:

#mbox-text { color:#FFFFFF; background-color:#000000; }

---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 03:23, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

That's for the id 'mbox-text'. To style the class, use .mbox-text. Algebraist 10:51, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks— I never can remember those. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 17:14, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Runaway GIF animations invade Wikipedia!

Is there a restriction on thousand-frame, thousand-pixel-resolution GIF animations on article pages until bug 20312 is fixed? The article on harmonographs, for instance, currently has a 10-megabyte "thumbnail" of File:Harmonograph_trace.gif that must use something like two or three gigabytes of memory when loaded. Some poor souls (e.g., me) are still using vintage 2003-era computers with less than a gig of RAM :( --Keith111 (talk) 07:20, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I don't think there's any policy-based restriction, but if the image is actually necessary (seems a little questionable in this case), someone should upload a thumbnailed version for use in the article. Mr.Z-man 16:07, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
Removed. There is no policy we have to keep annoying things either. SchmuckyTheCat (talk)

Can wikilinks affect an article's Google PageRank?

I know that outbound links include a default NOFOLLOW, and that therefore the spammer who links from a WP article to her blog is doing nothing to increase the blog's Google juice. But is a Wikipedia article's PageRank in Google search affected by the number of other WP articles that link to it via wikilinks? Is an article with many inbound wikilinks getting juice from those links? Gonzonoir (talk) 09:26, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

You'd probably need to ask Google in order to receive a definitive answer, but... I doubt it. I'm all but positive that internal links generally don't increase page ranks within Google's system, for anyone.
V = I * R (talk to Ω) 15:21, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Section edit button returns wrong section

When I tried to edit Petroleum by clicking the edit button of the See also section, it returns , which is for the Hubbert peak theory section. I tried a few other section edit buttons on the same article and they all cannot go to the correct section. --Quest for Truth (talk) 15:51, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Try purging it. There might be something going on in one of the WMF servers though, as I recall having a similar problem elsewhere earlier today. Luckily for me, I was able to figure out the correct section= number to use, but this could be a real issue if something is off on the server side.
V = I * R (talk to Ω) 15:56, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
Just tried it, and it works for me (right now)
V = I * R (talk to Ω) 15:57, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
It really works after purge. I did not expect purge to be used in such circumstance. Thank you anyway. --Quest for Truth (talk) 10:23, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

css diff views in popups

my css page contains:

td.diff-addedline span.diffchange { /* the actual added part */
background: #0000FF;
color: #FFFFFF;
td.diff-deletedline span.diffchange { /* the actual deleted part */
background: #0000FF;
color: #FFFFFF;
font-weight: bold;
text-decoration: line-through;

'diff' views from a watchlist render correctly but popups of the same view do not. now I know that tables dont display in popups so 'td' is certainly not right. but what do I use? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lemmiwinks2 (talkcontribs) 18:15, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

And I cant look at the page source of a popup because firefox wont let me. Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 18:40, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
Popups don't have page source as such. Highlight some content, rightclick, and choose "view selection source". Popups seem to use <ins class="popupDiff"> for inserted content and <del class="popupDiff"> for removed content. Algebraist 18:43, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
I tried #ins.popupDiff, ins.popupDiff, popupDiff, .popupDiff, td.popupDiff and none of them seemed to work. Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 19:39, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
ins.popupDiff is correct, and works fine here. Algebraist 19:45, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

I tried: ins.popupDiff { background: #0000FF; background-color: #0000FF; color: #FFFFFF; } and ins.popupDiff { background: #0000FF; color: #FFFFFF; } and ins.popupDiff { background-color: #0000FF; color: #FFFFFF; }

I can change the foreground but not the background. Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 20:08, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

You will of course need to use "!important" to override the default settings. Algebraist 20:11, 7 September 2009 (UTC)
Got it. Thank you. ☺ Lemmiwinks2 (talk) 20:26, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Find a List of categories

How would one find a list of existing categories? This would keep me from creating another one, similar to an existing one. thanks GloverEpp (talk) 12:29, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Special:Categories lists all existing categories, Portal:Contents/Categorical index contains the main categories by topic. Svick (talk) 13:03, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
I took your advice, above, and found what I was looking for. I had to flip through some 20 pages to find it though. Which leads me to a new question. Is there a way to search for a category? For example, show me all categories that contain the word canal. GloverEpp (talk) 14:28, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
The search feature allows you to select what namespaces to search. Algebraist 14:51, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Counting the number of articles that "link here"

Is there any way to get the count of the number of backlinks (or articles in the "what links here" page)? Right now the only way seems to be to continue clicking the next button and counting until they are exhausted. Surely with the power of technology we could have a better way. I think this would be very useful for understanding the "internal notability" of pages (as well as comparing page names which redirects to see if a redirect is used far more often). I have looked at the Wikipedia API, but it also only seems to provide lists of backlinks (instead of having a query for the number of backlinks). Thanks, -Sligocki (talk) 20:55, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

User:JaGa has done some rather marvelous work on the toolserver in this general area, although he has focused on disambiguation pages with links. I imagine his code is adaptable to address your concern too. See here for some background. --AndrewHowse (talk) 21:16, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Unfortunately, the way the Toolserver would do this would be effectively the same as exhausting those pages, but with less resources used. — Dispenser 21:55, 3 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the pointers guys. I'm kind of disappointed with the limitations of the API, but c'est la vie. Would either of you guys be able to help me to implement such a tool? I've also asked User:JaGa as well. Cheers, -Sligocki (talk) 17:57, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
Sure. tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/, source code is also available. — Dispenser 21:01, 4 September 2009 (UTC)
Oh, wow, thanks! Where can I access the source code? I'd like some tweaks, like right now tools:~dispenser/cgi-bin/ only returns 442. I'm guessing that it's not counting transclusion, does it count redirects? Thanks, — Sligocki (talk) 04:36, 6 September 2009 (UTC)
I have since added redirect support. Source code is available at tools:~dispenser/sources/, but you need either a Toolserver account or a database dump. — Dispenser 01:55, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll look into getting an account. — sligocki (talk) 21:41, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

AutoWikiBrowser makes lists of all sorts. You need to make a request to use it but it is very usefull. –droll [chat] 15:03, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

It's also only available for Windows. There does not appear to be anything comparable for Linux, my OS. — sligocki (talk) 21:41, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Article wizard 2.0

Re adding references to the Article Wizard. (I've posted on VP on this recently, but I can't find it now.)

I've posted at MediaWiki talk:Noarticletext, MediaWiki talk:Noexactmatch and MediaWiki talk:Searchmenu-new, without response (apart from one person on VP wanting to keep Searchmenu minmal). I need more input, and some help to implement too, if it's agreeable. Oh and there's Template talk:Welcome too - no response there either. Anyone? Rd232 talk 16:18, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

WP:VPT not showing up on WP:VPA

I usually access the village pump from Wikipedia:Village pump (all). Right now the section where the discussions from Wikipedia:Village pump (technical) should appear has nothing but a 1 in it. I've hunted around, but don't see where to fix this. Ntsimp (talk) 17:51, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

It was because of the <onlyinclude> in #Making templates more easy to edit. Fixed now. Algebraist 18:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC)


I know that Wikipedia is instigating the new Beta functionality. A feature that needs to be reported to bugzilla, or incorporated is the ability to merge cells. This should be extended to nonBeta. (talk) 22:22, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Other edits by this IP today appear to be them messing around. -- Finlay McWalterTalk 23:28, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

brackets + linking

Hi. I'd like to link the term sic, and I'd like to put the link in brackets. But triple brackets doesn't do that. [[[sic]]]. — goethean 15:06, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

[sic] works. Or do you want [sic]? Or you could just use {{sic}}. Algebraist 15:08, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
I'll go with [sic]. Thanks!! — goethean 15:11, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Custom css

May not be the best place to ask this, but I have two questions. Firstly, what is the name of the "create a book" sidebar box. Secondly, is it possible to change the link on the Wikipedia logo to link to a different page, say, Special:Random or a user subpage? If this isn't the place to ask feel free to point me in the right direction. —thedarklordtrombonator 20:44, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

The id in monobook is "p-coll-create_a_book". As for the other question, that's going to require javascript getting the id and dynamically switching it for an <a> pointing to Special:Random. Have a look at my monobook.js or my vector.js for something to that effect. --Izno (talk) 21:00, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
You can change the link by adding the following code to Special:MyPage/monobook.js (assuming you use the default monobook skin) and replacing with the address of the page you want to link to. (tested in Firefox 3.5)
window.addEventListener("load", function() { 
  document.getElementById("p-logo").getElementsByTagName('a')[0].href = '';
 }, false);
Svick (talk) 21:18, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
Although you should probably use addOnloadHook instead —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 22:39, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Up link

I suggest include an up link (to go to the top of the page) near to every section. This is very usefull when viewing the articles with mobile devices (where the user does not employ a computer mice and navigation is more difficult. This can be initially added as an optional widget (that the user can select in preferences). Regards.--Nopetro (talk) 10:50, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

I personally do not see a need for this (maybe that's because I don't use a mobile device to edit), but if you want to gain some support and see this put in use, the proposals village pump or Bugzilla might be a better place. Regards, The Earwig (Talk | Contribs) 13:39, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
In the meantime, you can create this functionality for yourself using your monobook.js. See User:Drilnoth/sampleeditlinks.js for an example of modifying section headings or ask the people at WP:US for help. OrangeDog (talk • edits) 02:33, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Historical text highlighting wiki gadget

HAPPI historical content highlighting

I'm sure many of you caught the news article about Adler and Alfaro's research in wiki trustability being applied to live Wikipedia. It just so happens that I have been working on a similar problem from a completely different direction during my research and am ready to share this work with the community. I have designed and implemented a user script modification that I call HAPPI and am currently running a non-profit/academic analysis of its usefulness. The script adds a couple of new controls that will appear over the edit pane. These controls will allow you to toggle the highlighting of wiki text while you edit it. If you'd like to give it a try, please see the documentation page for more information. --EpochFail (talk|contribs) 21:06, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Funky. *tries out* Ale_Jrbtalk 21:15, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
By the way, your link doesn't link to the documentation page. Ale_Jrbtalk 21:15, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
From a quick rummage, it seems the doc page is at User:EpochFail/HAPPI. Nanonic (talk) 21:19, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
I did find it - was merely pointing it out. Cheers, though. :) Ale_Jrbtalk 21:20, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
Yikes. Sorry about that. I've repaired the links. --EpochFail (talk|contribs) 22:29, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
Looks cool, must try this. warrior4321 02:52, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Help!!!!! I have spy agents on my laptop

Hi i am a total newbie. I am hoping someone can help me please?? I have found a number of viruses on my laptop.

spyware.known_bad_sites application.trackingcookies adware.advertising trojan-spy.zbot.YETH trojan-spy.zbot.a As you can imagine they are very annoying. Has anyone got an address or download for me to get rid of them?? I appreciate your time in reading this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cosmic8080 (talkcontribs) 11:57, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Try asking at the reference desk. Zain Ebrahim (talk) 12:00, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

LaTeX in wikipedia, explosive font size

Is anyone familiar with LaTeX in wikipedia? As a newbie I have been trying to use it for a formula. Why is the result often represented in a gigantic font size? The font size somehow explodes by adding a fraction or other special things. For example, compare

  • versus , and
  • versus —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ceinturion (talkcontribs) 14:12, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
As explained at Help:Displaying a formula, by default simple formulae are rendered in HTML while more complex ones produce png images. Algebraist 14:16, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
Fractions will always be rendered as PNG, but if you want to make them little smaller, you can use \textstyle: . Note that this makes only the fraction smaller, the rest of the formula stays the same. Svick (talk) 18:26, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
A better way to render simple fractions is with a / sign: . — Carl (CBM · talk) 19:30, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
On Firefox 3.5.*, that CSS rule works very well :
  img.tex { -moz-transform: scale(.8); }
Mozilla reference here, W3C here. -- Codicorumus  « msg 21:31, 10 September 2009 (UTC)


Is anyone fixing the category software? We really need a way of organizing categories. Like on my user page it should be possible to divide the categories into say music, literature, etc. Bensaccount (talk) 00:49, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Is anyone supposed to be "fixing categories" in some specific manner? Is there a bugzilla filed with an enhancement request, or a proposal on the Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) section, somewhere? (reading over this reply, I'm realizing that it sounds kind of snippy. That's not my intent at all, I'm simply struggling to express my thoughts here in a different manner. Sorry)
V = I * R (talk to Ω) 00:59, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Multiple changes as one revision or many revisions

I have some experience with AWB and I've noticed that it will save multiple changes as one revision. Since AWB is really designed around being a user-assisted "semi-autonomous" bot, I don't think that it definitively answers my question.

I'm working on a custom bot, and as a result it is possible that I will be able to have it perform multiple corrections to an article at the same time when it's ready to run. The question is, should the bot then save those changes as one large revision or a quick series of smaller revisions? I could see a case for and against using either method, so I figured an outside opinion would be helpful here. The advantages of multiple small revisions would be that regular users should be able to undo specific revisions if required, but I could see how the sudden appearance of a number of small bot revisions would concern or annoy some editors.
V = I * R (talk to Ω) 17:26, 10 September 2009 (UTC)

Single edit. βcommand 17:28, 10 September 2009 (UTC) there any reason in particular?
V = I * R (talk to Ω) 17:30, 10 September 2009 (UTC)
I suppose it reduces server load for bots to make as few edits as possible. Plus, if the bot goes wrong it's easy to revert, and won't be interleaved with other user/bot edits. OrangeDog (talk • edits) 01:33, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
To the server load issue, it really wouldn't make a difference one way or another (although, it is likely to make a somewhat significant difference on my end, where making multiple smaller edits would likely take more processing time/power). The interleaving point is a remove possibility, but someone would need to be making an edit right then already. The bot edits would come in fast enough that they would all appear instantaneously to the rest of us, and half of the reason that I was thinking about this was in order to make it easier to revert specific aspects of edits.
From a programming perspective it would be easier on me to just do one large edit, but I thought that it might be easier on others to evaluate the edits as small, narrow purpose edits rather then large monolithic edits. These two replies sound like a general repudiation of all of the possible points in favor of smaller edits though, so I guess I'll just stick with the easier design. *shrug*
V = I * R (talk to Ω) 01:57, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
Not if there are other bots doing the same thing. That's why most are throttled and do everything they can in a single edit. OrangeDog (talk • edits) 03:18, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Reference indent doesn't work

normally references[1] are enumerated [2] but because reference number 3 contains a list[3]

up reference 4[4], wiki doesn't enumerates (4,5,6, etc) the[5] references but "lists" (*,*,*, etc) the references. Does anyone knows a fix?

My References

  1. ^ number1
  2. ^ number2
  3. ^ number3 :
    1. book1
    2. book2
    3. book3
  4. ^ number4
  5. ^ number5

--Keysanger (talk) 14:09, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Yes. Format the inner list directly in HTML as an <ol> list, rather than using wikitext, as I have now done to your example. I also changed the inner list to Roman numerals, to show how to do that. — Carl (CBM · talk) 14:13, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

S u p e r !, Thank you, --Keysanger (talk) 14:42, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Standard background colors

Many tables on Wikipedia contain repetitive, scalar kinds of information. Some people made templates for this task such as {{yes}} which usually transclude a cell background color and a default text. These are widely used as far as I can see. I’d like to pose the question whether the colors and sets shouldn’t be standardized more and then moved to MediaWiki:Common.css as much as possible. Please see the collective Talk page. — Christoph Päper 14:35, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Reference CSS breaking line spacing

I was wondering where the CSS is stored that Wikipedia uses to format its inline references. On the English Wikipedia, they used to break the line spacing but no longer do. On the Icelandic Wikipedia, where I am now mostly active, I find that they still break spacing. Is it possible to fix that? Where does Wikipedia keep the CSS formatting for these references? Thanks. Maxí (talk) 19:01, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

A lot of stuff is done in MediaWiki:Common.css and some in Mediawiki:Monobook.css -- Finlay McWalterTalk 19:08, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
And it's the sup, sub { line-height: 1em; } . Note that specifying line-height in CSS may break printing on IE7 in some cases. This is corrected in MediaWiki:Common.js with a special IE7 case which overrides that CSS again. —TheDJ (talkcontribs) 19:42, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
See Help:Cite messages, where hopefully all of this is now documented. ---— Gadget850 (Ed) talk 19:55, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Stopping edit conflicts and making templates more easy to edit

Making templates more easy to edit

On my own personal wiki, I had a template which I wanted to format regularly, but I didn't want to have to open the the template and then find the text. So what I did is I created 30 template pages, (and template subpages) for a total of sixty, which I could simply click on, and edit. When I clicked on any one of the 30 links in my template, it went to another page, where I added the information on the calendar, then clicked save. The template was then updated with that new information from that subpage.

Why isn't this done with templates on wikipedia? It is much easier for a casual editor to edit, has it been suggested before?

Sunday Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday
{{{1}}} {{{2}}}
{{{3}}} {{{4}}} {{{5}}} {{{6}}} {{{7}}} {{{8}}} {{{9}}}
{{{10}}} {{{11}}} {{{12}}} {{{13}}} {{{14}}} {{{15}}} {{{16}}}
{{{17}}} {{{18}}} {{{19}}} {{{20}}} {{{21}}} {{{22}}} {{{23}}}
{{{24z}}} {{{25}}} {{{26}}} {{{27}}} {{{28}}} {{{29}}} {{{30}}}

Template 1:

<span class="plainlinks">[ {{day1a}}]</span>

...redirects to template 1a:


<onlyinclude>1 </onlyinclude><noinclude> [[Calendar]]</noinclude>

Stopping edit conflicts on talk pages

More intriguingly, I was thinking about how to stop edit conflicts on talk pages, every editor would have a box to edit everytime they add a new comment on a talk page.

The technology is there, and it is a new idea that I haven't thought clear through, but I think it would work. Ikip (talk) 15:14, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

mw:Extension:LiquidThreads PrototypeWerdna • talk 19:20, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Also attaching segments where it was discussed/demoed at Wikimania

(seek to 26:33)
(seek to 20:30)

Werdna • talk 20:02, 7 September 2009 (UTC)

Wow thanks once again wernda, you are wonderful as usual. :) So no more edit conflicts? The liquid thread page doesn't mention this. Ikip (talk) 04:18, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, I haven't mentioned it, but there wouldn't be any. — Werdna • talk 09:49, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Yay! man, I can't wait to get LiquidThreads. We're stuck in the dark ages here without them.
V = I * R (talk to Ω) 10:14, 8 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you Werdna, how about the tables, is there anything for tables to? I appreciate your time.Ikip (talk) 15:39, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Need help for infobox pictures

I want to add two pictures of my two favorite players to my userpage's infobox, but I don't know how. I want it to be like this:

Diego Ribas da CunhaAlessandro Del Piero.

but I'm not sure about the sizes since I don't know which sizes fit my infobox well, and don't mess it up. (not too large or too small) I don't know which two sizes can make both pictures look like a rectangle together. I tried everything in the infobox but it didn't work. Can someone help me? Thanks. HipHopSavior (talk) 18:04, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Village pump (technical)
— Wikipedian —
Diego, my current favorite bianconeri (left), Alessandro Del Piero, my all time favorite bianconeri (right)
Diego, my current favorite bianconeri (left), Alessandro Del Piero, my all time favorite bianconeri (right)
That infobox wasn't made to show two images at once, but I was able to work around it, although it is really ugly hack. You can see the result on the right. Svick (talk) 18:26, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

How to link to talk page section with a {{tl}} template

Hi, is it possible to link to a specific section on a talk page with a {{tl}} template in the header? I'm trying to link to the discussion here with the header "merge to {{unreferenced}}" but nothing I tried has worked:

  • [[Template talk:Unreferenced section#merge to {{unreferenced}}]]
  • [[Template talk:Unreferenced section#merge to {{unreferenced}}]]
  • [[Template talk:Unreferenced section#merge to {{unreferenced}}]]
  • [[Template talk:Unreferenced section#merge to {{tlx|unreferenced}}]]

perhaps I'm being stupid but I can't find any info on how to do this?

Any help would be much appreciated, regards, ascidian | talk-to-me 23:32, 11 September 2009 (UTC)

Template_talk:Unreferenced_section#merge_to_.7B.7Bunreferenced.7D.7D. Algebraist 23:35, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
Thanks for the quick answer/reply. ascidian | talk-to-me 23:49, 11 September 2009 (UTC)
I have a related question. When curly brackets are used in section headers, the "→" link on the history and your watchlist doesn't work For example, the link to this section is Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#How to link to talk page section with a .7B.7Btl.7Ctl.7D.7D template which doesn't work. Is there a bug open for this? — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:45, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Possibly bugzilla:5019? Looks like a catch-all for mismatches in general autocomment/returnto generation that doesn't agree with the section anchor generator. --Splarka (rant) 08:35, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
  • Incidentally, this is part of the reason why WP:ACCESS and some other guidelines (I think WP:LAYOUT mentions it) recommend against adding links in section titles at all. I'll readily admit that it's often shorter and easier to link a section title, but that doesn't really make doing so OK.
    V = I * R (talk to Ω) 09:58, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Algebraist kinda beat me to it, but try:

[[Template talk:Unreferenced section#merge to %7b%7bunreferenced%7d%7d]]

which gives Template talk:Unreferenced section#merge to {{unreferenced}}. See meta:help:URL; same principle apparently applies to internal wikilinks. No idea about the the "→" link though. PC78 (talk) 13:57, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Anyway to just watch a talk page

Is there anyway to just watch a talk page? Not the main page? Thanks. Ikip (talk) 15:38, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Help:Watching pages states: "It is not possible to watch a page without watching its associated talk page, nor is it possible to watch a talk page separately."
But you can create a special subpage of your user page, containing links to talk pages that you want to watch, and then use "Related changes". Changes from main pages won't show there. Svick (talk) 15:53, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
That is brilliant, it took me a second to understand what you were saying, but I understand now, I will try it out! Thank you! Ikip (talk) 16:00, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Alternatively, you could use a script like this to ignore the pages you don't want to watch. –xenotalk 16:04, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
WatchlistConfig = { ignorePages: [
'Article name goes here',
'And another',
], };
importScript('User:Gary King/hide pages in watchlist.js');
Thank you xeno. I knew there was a solution. I am torn about which option to use, because they are both so good. Ikip (talk) 16:06, 12 September 2009 (UTC)
Ha, it works! thank you all for your help! Ikip (talk) 16:13, 12 September 2009 (UTC)