Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Baseball

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WikiProject Baseball (Rated Project-class)
WikiProject iconThis page is within the scope of WikiProject Baseball, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of baseball on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.
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Player Archives

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Editors updating stats during game[edit]

I've found a number of instances of editors updating statistics in baseball-related articles during a game (more specifically, before a game becomes official). The most recent is List of Major League Baseball career strikeout leaders, in which the IP editor 2600:1700:1ef0:87a0:7dc2:5849:a5f4:2585 was updating stats for Cole Hamels (among other edits) while Hamels was pitching on 18 June 2019. Although I think we should put a stop to this, there's no clear way of doing this without restricting editing access. I've left a note for the IP editor in this case, but figured I'd leave this note as a heads up. Mindmatrix 15:58, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

I agree that in-game updates does run afoul of WP:NOTNEWS. I don't think there's anyway to prevent it - merely fix it when we see it happening. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 17:05, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
Yes, there are some guidelines that say not to update until a game is done, however, based on a very big discussion about this issue in regards to sports in general that happened a few months back (I believe it was on ANI because of an edit war between a couple editors), consensus was that while we should continue to tell people not to do it. You shouldn't play edit war with people if they do happen to do it because you really only compound the problem by doing so and most don't find people jumping the gun to be too much of an issue. TLDR: So really it was a case of tell people not to, but just leave it if they do. -DJSasso (talk) 18:08, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
The biggest problem I see is if editors are making stats changes to articles based on games that are in progress but end up getting rained out (meaning the stats don't count) or suspended (meaning the stats aren't official until the game is completed). Y2Kcrazyjoker4 (talk •  contributions) 19:12, 20 June 2019 (UTC)
In that case I would revert. But I doubt that would occur to often that someone was both updating early and it rained out. --DJSasso (talk) 19:40, 20 June 2019 (UTC)

Merge suggestion[edit]

It has been suggested that Ortiz Shift be merged into Infield shift. Comments are welcome on this Talk page. Thanks. Dmoore5556 (talk) 04:58, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Two month virtual editathon on Women in Sports[edit]

WikiProject Women in Red is devoting the next two months (July and August) to a virtual editathon on Women in Sports. Please take this opportunity to write more articles about women who lag far behind men on Wikipedia's coverage of baseball.--Ipigott (talk) 07:03, 26 June 2019 (UTC)

Sandbox stubs[edit]

I got a bit excited about the 2019 College World Series as a Michigan alum/fan. I created some sandbox pages in case they won so that they could have a template. Should I move any of these to article space now?

P.S. can we confirm that the Kerrs are the first 3-generation College World Series family from a school.-TonyTheTiger (T / C / WP:FOUR / WP:CHICAGO / WP:WAWARD) 15:37, 27 June 2019 (UTC)

Brewer is probably the closest to meeting notability standards given he was conference player of the year, but even then I'm not sure he meets notability standards yet. Best, GPL93 (talk) 20:57, 30 June 2019 (UTC)

1993 Atlanta Braves season page addition[edit]

Hello and good day. Go to players stats, where it says = Indicates team leader, please fill in empty box with yellow color I used to highlight team leaders. I have tried many times to do so without success. Thank you for your time.2601:581:8000:21B0:2057:CEE2:35C1:3A28 (talk) 02:59, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Please disregard request, was adjusted. Thank you.2601:581:8000:21B0:2057:CEE2:35C1:3A28 (talk) 22:40, 29 June 2019 (UTC)

Owner vandalism[edit]

I have an idea for dealing with the "owner / pwn3r" vandalism that's been ramped up. You know, the super funny and original edits like this one. Team ownership changes very rarely. Could we either (a) embed the ownership details into the template, so that the team name parameter leads to the display of the owner(s), or (b) create a separate template that we use in that parameter, similar to how the team colors work on the biography template? – Muboshgu (talk) 19:51, 4 July 2019 (UTC)

Understand the frustration, but is it still just a small part (though memorable) of overall vandalism? In the NBA, something similar happens to players when they are on the wrong end of highlights. Perhaps it's a more general question of protecting mostly static info in the infobox from the rest of the page. I don't follow it much, but was that what Wikidata was for?—Bagumba (talk) 03:42, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
In terms of keeping the owner info up-to-date across different language Wikipedias, yes, using Wikidata would be a good approach. In terms of detecting vandalism, it would mean watchlisting the appropriate data items on Wikidata. This may become a commonly done thing one day, but I suspect at the moment it would be an additional burden for most English Wikipedia editors. isaacl (talk) 05:30, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Unless the template is being template-protected, I think embedding the owner into a template will just move where the vandalism occurs. Selfishly, as I don't have the template editor permission, I wouldn't want the corresponding template to be protected :-). Since option (b) is narrowly focused on the owner info, I suppose protecting it wouldn't be unduly restrictive, but I also don't think it meets the criteria for a high-risk template. isaacl (talk) 05:22, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
On the flip side, one edit to said template—esp with minimal or no protection—could vandalize many or all owners, as opposed to needing multiple edits, saves, and navigations.—Bagumba (talk) 05:45, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
I think the random IPs that tend to do these edits are likely to not know how to get to the templates to vandalism them.. making it less likely that these things will occur. Spanneraol (talk) 12:59, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Maybe... but they'd probably just overwrite the use of the template, instead. isaacl (talk) 18:23, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Isaacl, I was thinking of making it an edit-protected template. Wikidata could work. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:25, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Do you mean semi-protected? Without going back to check, I'm pretty sure I've seen this vandalism with registered accounts, too. isaacl (talk) 18:23, 5 July 2019 (UTC)
Another thing that can be done is set up an edit filter that flags owner changes as possible vandalism for patrollers. Here's an example of a filter that was triggered because of change to basketball player's height/weight (see its edit summary).—Bagumba (talk) 13:15, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

I looked at that Arizona article history and gave it pending changes protection protection for 3 mos. At least that limits the visibility. One could also make an argument for semi-protection.—Bagumba (talk) 09:02, 5 July 2019 (UTC)

Minor league baseball articles being used as incubators[edit]

New York Mets minor league players, New York Yankees minor league players, and other such articles listed in Category:Lists of minor league baseball players all feature incomplete lists of prospects in addition to templates containing the full rosters. I was told this is done intentionally as a way of incubating articles that are not yet ready to be published. These drafts are included in the roster articles as a way of allowing editors to source them before publishing them as independent articles if the player makes it to the big leagues.

The problem is, theses articles aren't necessarily singling out the top prospects, nor does the term "top prospects" even have an objective definition. Wouldn't it be better if this WikiProject maintained a series of draft pages for this purpose without simply posting the drafts on otherwise complete articles? What we have now are live articles that are being used for editing work, resulting in incomplete lists of players chosen at random. --Puzzledvegetable|💬|📧|📜 19:57, 9 July 2019 (UTC) + minor edit

The articles are intended to be about the farm system in general which is why the minor league rosters are located on them.. the players that have mini bios are ones that have some sourcing but not enough to meet GNG.. They usually include 40 man roster players who haven't played in the majors yet, top draft picks, and other top prospects that have some coverage. Various editors have occasionally added other miscellaneous players that don't meet those requirements or non notable players who had articles wound up being merged to them. I don't see how draft articles accomplishes anything.. as people would not find them and would start creating articles for all these players which these articles were intended to prevent... it's better the way it is.. though there probably should be more stringent requirements for inclusion.. I used to go through them a few times a year and weed them out but i haven't had as much time the last year or so to curate the minor league pages as often as I used to. Spanneraol (talk) 20:08, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
I never like these type of pages that dont actually build enduring content about the history of their minor league system. It basically churns recent rosters, while acting as an incubator for some content that eventually gets moved to standalong bios.—Bagumba (talk) 20:22, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
I always saw these kinds of articles as an almanac element of pillar 1 and a good alternative to standalone articles on these BLP. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 20:40, 9 July 2019 (UTC)
I agree in large part with Spanneraol and Barkeep49. I do think that the articles can provide useful information and also serve as a good alternative to deleting or keeping a full article on a player who is on the fence in terms of notability. We should definitely have stricter standards, maybe by requiring that a consensus be formed on article talk pages as to whether or not a player should be added to the article before actually doing so. Spanneraol is right that minor league pages have a lot of players that probably shouldn't be on there, and I'll be the first one to admit I may have added to that problem. I think the other problem is that a good chunk of the player bios aren't really even being incubated, but rather just added to the article and then maybe updated once a year after the end of the minor league season. Even the rosters aren't updated regularly, for instance most of the Phillies affiliate rosters haven't been updated since mid-March. Best, GPL93 (talk) 16:08, 11 July 2019 (UTC)