Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Sources

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This talk page is for discussing the reliability of sources for use in video game articles. If you are wondering if a video game source is reliable enough to use on Wikipedia, this is the place to ask.

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viewtalkeditchanges


Some sources I've gathered.[edit]

  • Nerd Much - I've noticed articles from Janet Garcia, who worked on Kotaku and IGN. Editorial policy notes that they have an editorial team that works towards accuracy and vetting of sources: [1].
  • Mic and [2], both of which are owned by Bustle Digital Group. Websites under its umbrella are stated to undergo efforts to maintain that content is accurate and verifiable: [3].
  • Retronauts - Owned and contributed to by Jeremy Parish, who has written for Electronic Gaming Monthly, USGamer, 1UP, and others. Checked in with Parish, he notes that there is no submission process for other writers, so it should be marked as situational for articles by Parish.

Just wanted to throw up a few sources that I think are good. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 02:18, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

Definite support for Retronauts (in fact, I'm rather confused they haven't already been listed as one yet). Not really sure about the others, so I'll leave that up to other editors. Namcokid47 (talk) 23:04, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Gamest/Monthly Arcadia[edit]

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Gamest was a long-running Japanese magazine that covered arcade games, notably those by Sega, Namco, Konami, Capcom and SNK. They've also done interviews with development teams and given out awards for games. Began in 1986 and abruptly stopped around 1999 when the publishing company went bankrupt — most of the writers for Gamest would then go to Enterbrain and create Monthly Arcadia, which as far as I know still continues. Lots of old Gamest issues are present on the Internet Archive, so I think it would be helpful for sourcing more obscure arcade games. I'd say both of these are perfectly fine to use as sources, but I want to hear other's opinions on it first. Namcokid47 (talk) 17:45, 17 August 2019 (UTC)

@Namcokid47:Um, Arcadia went kaput on February 28, 2015. Either way, Gamest may be one of the best Japanese gaming magazines from the old era. I would recommend anybody interested in seeing more issues of the magazine to support Retromags user JimmyD with his titanic task of scanning issues of Gamest and Neo Geo Freak: https://www.patreon.com/japanese_magazines_scans_project Roberth Martinez (talk) 19:15, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
Yes on Gamest. Not too familiar with Arcadia but most printed magazines of their caliber are reliable and with the connection you made to Gamest, I wouldn't have any concerns using them. TarkusABtalk/contrib 21:07, 28 August 2019 (UTC)
@TarkusAB:Arcadia is the spiritual successor to Gamest, as many editors from the latter moved on to the former. Roberth Martinez (talk) 02:25, 30 August 2019 (UTC)

Player.One[edit]

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Part of IBT Media and formerly a sister site to Newsweek.[4] EIC profile can be found here; he was formerly an editor for Newsweek and IGN. Lordtobi () 21:54, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

  • Support per nom. They are more esports focused than most other gaming news sites as well, which helps since we generally lack that on VG/RS. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 15:00, 29 August 2019 (UTC)
  • Looks pretty weak to me. czar 20:25, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
  • If my understanding is correct, IBT is considered an unreliable source for use on Wikipedia, so being part of IBT Media doesn't sit that well with me. The Newsweek and IGN connections are a bit reassuring, but I think this needs a stronger case. JOEBRO64 01:28, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

Too strict on AppSpy and 148Apps?[edit]

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Find video game sources: "148Apps" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR · free images · free news sources · The Wikipedia Library · NYT · WP reference · VG/RS · VG/RL · WPVG/Talk · LinkSearch · LinkTo

I think there are notable smartphone video games out there but it's becoming harder to verify or to improve them because we're not allowed to use certain sources dedicated to their coverage. I think we are asking for a lot from them based on editorial or review policy. Some of that information may not be readily available to the public. And I've never seen someone question IGN or GameSpot's policies or staff. I find this relevant because a former IGN reviewer was caught plagiarizing. And this wasn't that long ago. These sites also existed for a long time and policies may have been updated and changed.

I do think it has some merit that AppSpy and 148Apps are endorsed by the same parent company, Steel Media, and some of the key staff of Pocket Gamer are credited as editors. AppSpy has good decent coverage on their staff, but 148Apps is incomplete and only has the current ones. But even though they dont have a complete list readily available, the older reviewers are still credited and accessible. Unlike IGN where their older content is listed as just "IGN Staff".

Also, Pocket Gamer features content from both sites.[5][6]. (hopefully i dont look like a total idiot)Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 08:15, 31 August 2019 (UTC)

148Apps isn’t marked as unreliable/unusable. It’s situatiomal. Sergecross73 msg me 13:13, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
"Also, Pocket Gamer features content from both sites." Pocket Gamer is also owned by Steel Media. Its like how Giant Bomb and GameSpot are both owned by CBS. GamerPro64 13:28, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
@Sergecross73: yes, I'm proposing we label them completely reliable, and remove the situational (until proven not to be reliable). So what's stopping us from considering these completely reliable? And if it is proven to be situational, shouldn't we establish what to avoid? The "Other" sections look like they're used for sources without any consensus and were inconclusive. These sources were challenged by Czar and since then, i've hesitated using them. Even though they have content that could benefit these articles.
@GamerPro64: I still believe it holds merit considering every sister site seems to be considered reliable too (IGN/GameSpy, Giant Bomb/GameSpot, Eurogamer/USgamer, Hardcore Gaming 101/Gamasutra). And i'm aware Giant Bomb is situational, but only for user generated content like its wiki. The key staff for Pocket Gamer is also involved with these sites, and not as mere writers and reviewers but as editors. What is your opinion on that?Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 19:41, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
What about these sources makes them reliable for statements of fact? Sharing a parent company with another source is not an affirmative reason. The parent business has no bearing on the site's editorial content unless there is evidence of such. Media companies can own publications that range from serious journalism to clickbait rags. czar 19:54, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
I still have other points too already mentioned.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 19:59, 31 August 2019 (UTC)
@Czar: I think the biggest merit these two sites have is that both of these sites have editors by the main contributors to Pocket Gamer. So even if its not the exact same editorial policy, they may have similar standards, if the key staff of Pocket Gamer is involved.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 01:43, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
Reliability rests in editorial chain, not individual contributors. Someone with a BA in journalism and prior work experience at a newspaper might write more reliable copy, but if they're working at a blog that does not check or retract work based on accuracy, their qualifications ultimately mean little. It has more to do with the publication's own standards and the company of its peers. czar 04:31, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
Can you provide an example of any reliable sources in the list that show off editorial chains/policy, so i know what to look for? For example, IGN, GameSpot, or EuroGamer? Or maybe since these share the same parent company, Pocket Gamer would be the ideal source to take a look at their editorial policy/chain.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 04:40, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
Eurogamer (announcement); IGN; note that even Pocket Gamer's, in comparison, doesn't offer much. We don't have an explicit checklist for RS but consensus usually forms around several factors: the pedigree of the editors, the publication/staff's industry reputation, and editorial/ethics policy. Really hard to see how AppSpy or 148Apps holds a candle in either regard. czar 20:17, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

And if an editorial policy would be present, we would consider it reliable?Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 21:27, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Not necessarily. As I said, it's usually a balance of several factors. E.g., an editorial policy won't automatically make a hobbyist blog's contents reliable. It's basic hedging of risk: no source gets it right all the time, but what sources have systems of trust in place to be the most reliable for statements of fact? Those are the high-quality sources to which we defer as an encyclopedia. czar 04:20, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
@Czar: can you make your comment a bit more comprehensible? I didn't understand the your last two sentences.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 04:32, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
All sites make mistakes but some sites are more reliable than others and since our credibility as an encyclopedia is as good as our sources, we try to use the most reliable sources. We look to some markers of reliability—editor pedigree, industry reputation, written policy—as general signs of trustworthiness for statements of fact. There isn't a checklist for qualities a site must have—the assessment is holistic. czar 04:56, 2 September 2019 (UTC)
For Editor Pedigree, all three websites share the same lead editors. Pocket Gamer has more editors i admit. For industry reputation: what industry reputation could we look into? I dont necessarily think the smartphone video game industry and the console/PC video game industry are the same. The only space i see these sites being used regularly is in aggregated scores, and reviews from the app stores too, if that counts for anything. The only thing i believe is missing is just a well-thought out editorial policy.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 05:21, 2 September 2019 (UTC)

"Navigating Wikipedia’s Politics For Video Game Sources"[edit]

  • D, Billy (August 11, 2016). "Navigating Wikipedia's Politics For Video Game Sources". One Angry Gamer. Retrieved September 1, 2019.

From the peanut gallery. I don't think it does a very thorough job but alas, if you're interested in reading something in-between a critique and a report, I just happened upon this and haven't seen it posted before. czar 20:21, 1 September 2019 (UTC)

Yeah, pretty poorly done, but I’ve come to expect no less from any person or website with the words “Angry” or “Gamer” in it. Still, thanks for posting, I always find it interesting to see how the outside world views Wikipedia, even stuff like this. Sergecross73 msg me 20:28, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
There's kernels of good observations, but it sure is bad otherwise. I've come to expect it from places like AOG, The Quartering, and Niche Gamer, though lol - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 21:01, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
Hey, remember when a translator made an obvious joke on Twitter about how he would make the characters "twice as gay" in Amagami, and One Angry Gamer reported on it as if it were real and as if there really were a localization of a PS2 game in development in 2019? That site is not above making things up for the sake of outrage clickbait, and is not usable as a source for anything.--Alexandra IDVtalk 00:14, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Gaming Street[edit]

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Relatively new website authored by seasoned journalists (including Escapist Magazine, The Verge, and Destructoid) and industry specialists. Has a high emphasis on business analyses. Lordtobi () 17:50, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

Inside Gaming Daily[edit]

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Also known as just "Inside Gaming". There was a previous discussion before about this source here Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Video games/Sources/Archive 10#A few sites for Sonic X, a current FAC which i believe provided great evidence for it to being at least being reliable situationally.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 22:03, 4 September 2019 (UTC)

I dont really mind if its considered reliable or not, but i just need an answer for my ongoing GA review for Mercury Hg.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 09:40, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

Gaming Trend[edit]

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The staff is here [7], and review system here [8]. Jovanmilic97 (talk) 08:36, 5 September 2019 (UTC)

HLTV[edit]

I think that this website should be reconsidered as a source for CS:GO (I am the person who drafted HLTV, just as a disclaimer). It's by far the most used CS:GO website for news. They are also very often the only source which still exists of news dating back to the 2000s. As for their writers, they are paid to write, and not contributors from the form. One of the, MIRAA, was a part of the Esports Hall of Fame nomination board, which consists of trusted people from the community such as Paul Chaloner and Richard Lewis (journalist).

As for the actual content of the news, they almost always report uncontroversial facts. Many of the articles cited by users on Wikipedia are news articles talking about a match result, something which can't really by lied about. Their ranking is used by some tournament organisers, and CS:GO analysts consider them to be the "official rankings." This doesn't have much to do with their whether or not their news is trustworthy, but they are trusted by Valve as the matches on HLTV are integrated into the official CS:GO game.Lxxl (talk) 04:36, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Shmuplations[edit]

I want to suggest that Shmuplations be considered a situational source - that is, one that can be used if direct Japanese magazine sources are not accessible. I feel that the owner has demonstrated the ability to read and translate Japanese adequately, and has demonstrated access as well. - Bryn (talk) (contributions) 17:27, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

Considering that Japanese print sources for old video games are a very difficult thing to find, and that I've used it many times in the past for articles, I don't agree that it should be listed as "situational". Namcokid47 (talk) 22:51, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
I think what Abyrn is saying is that we shouldn't use Shmuplations if the original source can be found (which is not always going to be the case). I would agree, but it should be noted in the source that a Shmuplations translation was still used. JOEBRO64 23:09, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
Oh, okay. I must have misunderstood. Full support! Namcokid47 (talk) 23:12, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
I've used Shumplations as additional aid when the sourced interview/article is found (which is not easy BTW, as it is most likely in magazines such as Gamest or Micom BASIC Magazine). I would still recommend using Shumplations as a source until the respective original citation is found and placed into the article. Roberth Martinez (talk) 23:29, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
Support for the situations provided above. ~ Dissident93 (talk) 16:02, 11 September 2019 (UTC)

Neo Geo Freak[edit]

This was brought up in an earlier disucssion by KGRAMR, so I became a bit curious and decided to look at it. Neo Geo Freak was a popular Japanese magazine from the mid-1990's that focused on Neo Geo games and other SNK hardware, featuring interviews and other developer info that would be really useful for articles. Lasted from 1995 to 2000, although there was a short revival in 2005. Many of the writers are from Gamest and its successor magazine Monthly Arcadia, and some of them would later leave to write for both of those magazines. Like Gamest, many issues are available on the Wayback Machine. I'd definitely consider this to be reliable, although I am interested to hear other's opinions on it. Namcokid47 (talk) 23:20, 10 September 2019 (UTC)

  • No problem with it. Seems fine to me. JOEBRO64 23:31, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Reliable. Lots of great exclusive SNK info and interviews. TarkusABtalk/contrib 23:50, 10 September 2019 (UTC)
  • I was planning on using NEo Geo Freak too. I also consider it reliable as it has a lot of exclusive content.Blue Pumpkin Pie (talk) 07:22, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
  • Reliable. It has lots of interesting Neo Geo content that is not commonly seen in other Japanese gaming magazines. Roberth Martinez (talk) 16:11, 11 September 2019 (UTC)
Talking about Neo Geo, is there a chance somebody knows if there is creation information in regards to the character of Terry Bogard? The article doesn't have much but considering his current importance due to him being a Smash character, there might need to give him more coverage from any of those magazines. I tried checking the SNK wiki and there they didn't have anything.Tintor2 (talk) 01:50, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

Nours / Miraiken Blog[edit]

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Nours was an old Japanese gaming magazine published by Namco that began in 1993. Covered many of Namco's arcade and home console games, commonly having developer interviews and other useful information that I think can be used for articles. Was renamed to B-Nours in 2005, later to Side-B and then Side-BN following the formation of Namco Bandai Games. Became Side-876 sometime in the late 2010's, and continues to this day. Almost every issue of the magazine is on Bandai Namco's official Japanese website], so finding issues will be easy. I'd say this is a good primary source, and would be great to use for stuff like release dates and development info. Namcokid47 (talk) 03:27, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

  • I would also like to bring up another BN-related source I found, "Miraiken Blog". Began in July 2007 and went kaput in April 2014, and was ran by an official Bandai Namco spokeperson and other Bandai Namco employees. Covers news on upcoming titles and development info much like Nours does, mainly for stuff relating to Tekken, Pac-Man, Galaga and Idolmaster. Seems pretty alright to me for use as a reliable primary source. Namcokid47 (talk) 21:31, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Gamester81[edit]

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I am considering reviewing First generation of video game consoles for GA. I am pinging Crimsonfox, the nominator, to let them know that. I checked some of the sources to assess their quality, and one of them, Gamester81, caught my attention. I have never heard of the website or the person running it, so I am already skeptical of the website's credibility. The reference in the Wikipedia article links here, and I found no evidence of ethics, credentials, etc., either by clicking on About or on the name of that article's author. I say the source is unquestionably unreliable. Gamingforfun365 18:08, 14 September 2019 (UTC)

Thanks for the ping, I'd missed it when checking. I completely agree with the fact the source isn't reliable. CrimsonFox talk 20:24, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
Unreliable per nom. Namcokid47 (talk) 21:15, 14 September 2019 (UTC)